Qsac option is an embarrassment to this beautiful city and the worst possible option for the games and future Brisbane. Any of the other 3 options are far superior and gives Brisbane a legacy. Lino
Rebuild the Gabba. There is no replacement idea. The new mass transport underground Gabba station is a huge waste of money without a stadium there. No other option has the same level of connectivity... a few 100 meters. No need to add more transport infrastructure... it's already there! Spend 3 billion. Build it to 80,000. Future proof the city. Put tunnels where the roads are to make the surroundings more walkable/larger stadium footprint as needed. Think BIG! Just do it. Let's Go!!!
The Hamilton Northshore option looks amazing, and we definitely need an 80K+ seating international quality stadium. C'mon, we're Australia's third largest city and we keeping thinking small!
Yeah, just consider the amount of construction logistics required to keep the adjacent streets open. Three of these streets being the busiest in Brisbane's southside...... There's also limited space: think about issues like onsite storage. You'd have to transport stadium girders in at the dead of night and rush to erect them before morning peak hour. No wonder there's such a huge margin of uncertainty in the estimated costs.
@@Birch37 the planning needs to consider PT. Victoria Park cost for stadium only is rubbish without a PT heavy rail plan ie. more cost. Some reason QSAC is flawed.
How are these ridiculous prices even being mooted? The demolition and reconstruction of the Sydney Football Stadium which has a capacity of 42,500 was completed in 2022 at a cost of $828 million dollars... why are your stadiums costing multiple billions of dollars even as mere refurbishments?
@@aalan4296 As much as I hate conservatives, Labour governments seem to be corrupt to the core. Reminds me of the horrific Carr and co. years here in NSW. How Bob Carr isn't rotting in jail for the rest of his worthless life is beyond me.
An interesting point to note regarding extending the Doomben line to service a potential North Shore stadium; is that many years back the rail corridor was already widened to accommodate a new set of tracks & the station alignment was built for it. So in fact upgrading the Doomben line would largely just be putting down some new tracks and extending them into the new development. Also another point to raise is that in your video you suggested the extended line wouldn’t see much use outside big events. However, if the full North Shore plan went ahead then there would be significant number of new apartments in need to transport options. Also consider that even without the North Shore Stadium proposal the Olympic village is going to be built at North Shore anyways… and will need public transport regardless.
You raise some great points. I’d certainly be happy if Northshore went ahead, we could even potentially create that much needed “circle” line as a next stage by dragging the train line back towards Morningside.
The North Shore site's Achilles heel is still public transport. Even if you did everything you're suggesting, the stadium is still 20 minutes away by train. It's also about 20 minutes away by City Cat as well. And there's no dedicated bus corridor along Kingsford Smith Drive. (Sure you could convert two lanes into bus-only. But unless you're willing to extend these all the way through the valley and into the city, you're just moving the bottlenecks further along to Breakfast Creek.) That's not a very sensible public transport solution. Remember: all trains head to the city. Anyone looking to get to the Northshore stadium would need to change stations at the city and spend another 20 minutes getting to the games. To give you an idea of how bad this is: for comparison Boondall is also 20 minutes away by train. You're better off arguing for Boondall over the North Shore, since (a) The railway infrastructure is already built (b) You're left with just the one white-elephant, not two.
From what I understand north shore stadium will not happen, even if it was built it wouldn’t be allowed to be used during the Olympics because the plan is to privately funded and thus privately owned, and the IOC doesn’t allow for privately funded stadium or venues to be used as they can’t have full control over it. It’s also just too far from the cbd and Brisbane doesn’t need a new huge stadium all the way out there, it would be a white elephant post games, best way to go is stick with the Gabba re-development or build Victoria park. But just as long as it’s not QSAC, no complaints.
Yeah I don't like the costs of the Northshore project: give up $1 billion worth of land, and then commit at least several million to build the public transport. All that so a private consortium can own the new stadium and keep all profits. The public transport issue alone should kill this idea off. Who wants to catch a train in from the suburbs, change at central only to take a 20minute train (or citycat) journey out to the new stadium?
victoria park is obviously the best but unions and construction contractors will leech as much government money out of it as possible while delaying it
@@web2yt488 It's not really about the Olympics. I just see it as a catalyst to build a better Brisbane. Compared to other major cities, Brisbane really lacks a mixed use CBD that is vibrant with a mix of activities and experiences. For too long Brisbane has relied on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts to provide leisure and entertainment. Brisbane needs the Olympics, and needs to do it well. If we do it right, we will get better amenities, better public transport, and a better Brisbane. If we do it wrong, I guess we get QSAC again? 🤷
QSAC is the worst idea in the world. The olympics is a HUGE opportunity to put brisbane on the map. Im all for any of these 3 options as long as its not QSAC. Hopefully the LNP can make it happen!!!
Not being overly familiar with Brisbane, my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt. But being a Tasmanian, I can guarantee you this, any talk regarding a stadium is guaranteed to generate opposition from people who dont care for sport or understand economics. Personally, Victoria park seems the best option in my eyes. Sure, it's expensive, but compared to the cost of temporarily upgrading QSAC plus the inevitable Gabba rebuild or redevelopment that will still need to happen in the not too distant future, that is a much more attractive cost in my eyes. Avoiding a Gabba rebuild also avoids the loss of the school, which I can understand people being upset by that prospect. That prime land can then be developed whether for residential or commercial/retail purposes. And quite frankly, I can't help but feel the Gabba has outgrown the area and that area is better suited for things other than a sporting precinct these days. Without getting too political, I feel that Labor knows they are toast this election and, therefore, not giving a **** about what happens with the Olympics infrastructure now and leaving the ****show for the next guys to fix.
@matthewbarber362 fair points but can I raise the school point? How is a school still there? Who in their right mind wants their children crossing one of the busiest south Brisbane roads? ... it's four lanes on all sides and five on two sides. That school should have been moved decades ago! Sorry, harsh but needs to be done.
That Hamilton stadium is stunning. I liked your idea about the Gabba being built next to the old one. Victoria park would be good too. Qsac is a bad idea, whatever they are going to do it need to be started ASAP! 😅
@@MelPikos Mel, you should suggest the State Govt do a land swap with Council to build a new stadium at Victoria Park. The Gabba then becomes council park land, which means -no net public parkland loss (or very little.) -More parkland for the inner city south side, which is currently lacking and would be much needed. Especially for the high-density development surrounding it. -Heaps of park space to have both trees/ vegetation areas and sports field areas. -Brisbane State school can stay where it is (and utilise the field for school sports/ athletics carnivals.) -Leaving a Public State School in an area that's rapidly densifying (target population being young couples and young families) is sensible forward urban planning. No need for State Govt to buy land 20 years later to accommodate demand. -Gabba building developers still get to spruik the "close to public parkland" bulletpoint on their marketing spiels: no net loss in buyer appeal.
Northshore Hamilton is the best proposal so far, not only granting us a new stunning stadium but a brand new precient that just looks amazing. They should extend the doomben railway line to Hamilton and double track it, or create a new subway line to connect it to the city and airport. But no matter what we do we must let the liberals into the state government, else Brisbane will be humiliated on a world stage.
Brisbane 2032 Olympics options Hi Mel. I really appreciate your passion and I greatly respect how you have given the 2032 Olympic stadium issue serious thought. I also believed that your option 2, as you indicate, is a sound idea. Although, I do not agree with the destruction of the existing Gabba stadium. Especially when there is a belief that the Roma Street Parkland Entertainment Arena is a good idea. Building the Roma Street Parkland Entertainment Arena on top of a critical piece of railway transport infrastructure is ludicrous. What could possibly go wrong? Rather than building the Roma Street Parkland Entertainment Arena, I would strongly suggest that we keep the Gabba stadium and put a roof on it and for it to become the Gabba Entertainment Arena. Especially with due consideration to the significant investment into the Brisbane Cross River rail development. Seriously, there is nothing much wrong with the Gabba stadium, other than the seating capacity. Many deficiencies of the Gabba stadium can be fixed with a bit of a makeover. It has solid bones and a robust cultural history that leads back to a time before European settlers. It makes the existing Gabba stadium an incredibly valuable asset for Brisbane and is currently greatly under utilised. The Australian Cricket Board do not see the Gabba Stadium as a valuable asset because of seating capacity and ticket sales, so let’s repurpose it and keep its legacy for even better uses. While I am often accused of being a Gypsie - because of the way I walk - I actually do not have crystal balls. 😊 But if you are looking for a sure bet, here it is. The Northshore Hamilton Stadium will cost more than all other options combined. Because nothing is ever actually free, when it comes to business. They will strike problems, delays and a whole bunch of other issues, that they will blame on us and we, the tax payer, will be left to bail them out at considerable cost. If you do not understand what I mean, then please watch the Simpsons episode on the Monorail. S4E12. We seriously cannot afford a free Northshore Hamilton Stadium and anyone that seriously thinks that this is a “free” option is not of a right mind. 😊 You currently identify only four options although you eliminate the first option; 1. Redevelop of QSAC - although you identify this option as far from suitable and is therefore eliminated. 2. Northshore Hamilton Stadium. 3. Victoria Park Redevelopment Stadium. 4. Gabba Redevelopment. The 2024 Paris Olympics demonstrated that you do not necessarily need a stadium for the opening and closing ceremonies. I have personally seen, smelt and been on the river Sain and I can easily say to you that there is next to no comparison of the Sain to our beautiful Brisbane river, Southbank and the many parks and open adjoining areas beside the Brisbane river. We really need to think outside of the “Arena”.
Here, for your consideration, are ten possible options with a focus on leveraging existing infrastructure: 1. Utilise the Gabba with Temporary Enhancements o Brisbane’s existing Gabba stadium can be upgraded with temporary seating, stages, and augmented reality (AR) technology to create a spectacular experience. Modular structures and large LED displays can be installed, turning it into a versatile venue for ceremonies. 2. River Stage and Floating Platforms o Host the opening/closing ceremonies on the Brisbane River, using floating stages and light shows reflected on the water. Surrounding public areas like South Bank and Kangaroo Point can provide spectator spaces, with large screens projecting the event. 3. Hybrid Virtual & In-Person Ceremonies o A mixed-reality ceremony using augmented reality (AR) and virtual reality (VR) could allow viewers from across the world to participate. For the physical portion, stadiums like Suncorp or The Gabba could host smaller live audiences while global audiences tune in virtually. 4. Multiple Venues Across the City o Rather than focusing on one stadium, Brisbane can utilise multiple iconic locations for different parts of the ceremony. For example, lighting the Olympic flame at the Gabba, while live performances happen at the Queensland Performing Arts Centre (QPAC), all connected via live broadcasts. 5. Pop-Up Arenas in Public Parks o Use temporary but environmentally friendly structures like pop-up arenas in places such as Roma Street Parkland or the Brisbane Botanic Gardens. These structures can be designed with sustainability in mind, and the open spaces will allow for large public gatherings. 6. Stadium Queensland - Fully Temporary Overlay o A fully modular, temporary stadium overlay could be placed in existing sporting venues. This option would involve installing a temporary grandstand and staging equipment that is removed after the event, leaving minimal footprint. 7. Use of Entertainment Venues & Public Viewing Zones o Leverage Brisbane’s entertainment venues like Brisbane Entertainment Centre, and nearby public spaces with giant screens. A scaled-down ceremony in these venues, paired with public viewing zones, can spread out spectators while creating a citywide celebration. 8. Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast Collaboration o Partner with the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast, using its stadiums and beaches to create a multi-location event. One part of the ceremony could take place in Brisbane while another segment is hosted on the beaches of the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast, offering a unique experience. 9. Transform the Brisbane Convention & Exhibition Centre o The BCEC can be transformed into a massive, multi-purpose venue with large viewing screens, indoor pyrotechnics, and state-of-the-art lighting to create an immersive experience. Additional outdoor screens can cater to large crowds. 10. Public Squares & Street Celebrations • Turn Brisbane’s key public squares like King George Square and the Story Bridge into central hubs for the ceremonies. Use these landmarks as stages for live performances and cultural showcases, integrated with technology-driven visual displays.
I recommend and believe that the best option currently for Brisbane is revised Option 2 from above - River Stage and Floating Platforms. This leverages greatly off our significant experience of many RiverFire events since 2009, Warana events since 1962, Commonwealth Games of 1982 and 2018 and World Expo 88 experience. There is no doubt in my mind that we can produce a spectacular world class leading experience. We have done it many times in the before and will do it again. Key Elements of Riverfire and Their Relevance to the Olympics 1. Pyrotechnics Expertise o Riverfire is renowned for its large-scale fireworks displays, synchronized across multiple locations along the Brisbane River. These displays are choreographed to music and involve intricate timing. o Olympic Opportunity: This expertise can be scaled up for the Olympic ceremonies by using multiple launch points along the river, including bridges, rooftops, and barges, to create a breathtaking fireworks display. The inclusion of drones or advanced laser light shows synchronized with the fireworks could take the spectacle to a global level, similar to what is seen at major international events like the Olympics or New Year's Eve in global cities. 2. River as a Stage o Riverfire turns the Brisbane River into a dynamic performance space, incorporating lighting effects, floating barges, and aerial performances. The Story Bridge and city skyline often serve as backdrops to the festivities. o Olympic Opportunity: For the Olympics, the river can be used as the main stage for parts of the opening and closing ceremonies. Floating platforms can host live performances, while choreographed water shows, drones, and light displays could interact with the skyline and natural setting. Additionally, the Story Bridge and Kangaroo Point Cliffs could serve as prominent staging areas for performers and special effects. 3. Crowd Management and Viewing Points o Riverfire attracts hundreds of thousands of spectators, spread across the riverbanks, bridges, and surrounding hills. The event organisers are experienced in managing crowds, offering multiple viewing locations along the river, such as South Bank, Kangaroo Point, and the CBD. o Olympic Opportunity: This experience with crowd management can be adapted for the Olympics by designating multiple public viewing zones along the riverbanks, ensuring that large numbers of spectators can enjoy the show without overwhelming a single venue. Big screens, light installations, and audio systems can be installed at strategic locations to provide an immersive experience across the entire city. 4. Aerial and Military Involvement o Riverfire often incorporates military aircraft flyovers, a crowd-favourite feature that adds an extra layer of excitement to the event. This includes fighter jets, helicopters, and stunt planes that perform aerial displays. o Olympic Opportunity: For the Olympics, aerial performances could include not just military flyovers but also drone light shows and artistic aerial displays, integrating storytelling elements relevant to the Olympics. Using drones with LED lights to form Olympic symbols, mascots, or national flags in the sky would provide an awe-inspiring, eco-friendly alternative to traditional fireworks. 5. Broadcasting and Global Reach o Riverfire has been successfully broadcasted to wide audiences, both locally and nationally, showcasing Brisbane’s ability to manage large-scale televised events. With expert camera placements along the river, including aerial views, organizers can capture the event from multiple angles. o Olympic Opportunity: The Olympic opening and closing ceremonies would require a similar but even more sophisticated broadcast operation. Utilizing Brisbane’s scenic riverfront for sweeping camera shots, drones for aerial views, and floating stages for up-close performances would make for an engaging and dynamic broadcast. This would also involve synchronized lighting and pyrotechnics timed perfectly for a global television audience. 6. Transport and Logistics Planning o Riverfire involves significant transport and logistics coordination, ensuring that crowds can move efficiently and safely in and out of the city. Public transport is ramped up, and road closures are strategically planned to minimize congestion. o Olympic Opportunity: Leveraging these logistics experiences will be critical for managing the even larger crowds anticipated for the Olympics. Enhancing ferry services, river transportation, and public transit during the opening and closing ceremonies can provide spectators with seamless access to the riverside events. Special riverboat ferries could even offer premium viewing options for select guests. 7. Collaborations with Local Landmarks o During Riverfire, landmarks like the Story Bridge, Kangaroo Point Cliffs, and the South Bank precinct are illuminated and play a central role in the festivities. These iconic locations serve as natural stages for pyrotechnics and lighting displays. o Olympic Opportunity: The Olympics can amplify these collaborations by using these landmarks as focal points for performances, special effects, and storytelling elements in the ceremonies. For example, the lighting of the Olympic cauldron could involve a dramatic moment cantered around the Story Bridge or Kangaroo Point Cliffs, with choreographed effects highlighting the significance of these Brisbane landmarks. How Riverfire Experience Translates into Olympic Success • Spectacle and Visual Impact: The visual elements of Riverfire, such as large-scale fireworks, choreographed lighting, and river-based performances, provide a strong foundation for creating a visually stunning Olympic ceremony. • Logistics and Safety: Brisbane’s experience in safely managing large crowds and public transport during Riverfire will ensure that the Olympic ceremonies run smoothly without major disruptions. • Environmental Considerations: With increasing focus on sustainability, lessons learned from Riverfire’s recent moves toward eco-friendly fireworks and green initiatives can be applied to the Olympic ceremonies, potentially using drones and light shows in place of traditional fireworks to reduce environmental impact. • Global Broadcasting Experience: Riverfire's extensive experience with multi-location broadcast techniques will ensure that the Olympic ceremonies are televised to a high standard, capturing the beauty and scale of the event for a global audience. Potential Enhancements for the Olympics • Multi-location Spectacles: Instead of focusing only on one spot, Olympic ceremonies could incorporate performances and displays along the entire river, creating a city-wide event. • Floating Olympic Flame: The Olympic cauldron could be placed on a floating platform on the river, with the flame traveling up and down the river throughout the Games, creating a visual and symbolic connection between different parts of Brisbane. • Integration of Indigenous Culture: As part of the Olympic ceremonies, the Brisbane River’s cultural significance to Indigenous Australians can be highlighted, incorporating traditional performances and storytelling as part of the narrative. Can we build it? Yes we can!
I recommend and believe that the best option currently for Brisbane is revised Option 2 from above - River Stage and Floating Platforms. This leverages greatly off our significant experience of many RiverFire events since 2009, Warana events since 1962, Commonwealth Games of 1982 and 2018 and World Expo 88 experience. There is no doubt in my mind that we can produce a spectacular world class leading experience. We have done it many times in the before and will do it again. Key Elements of Riverfire and Their Relevance to the Olympics 1. Pyrotechnics Expertise o Riverfire is renowned for its large-scale fireworks displays, synchronized across multiple locations along the Brisbane River. These displays are choreographed to music and involve intricate timing. o Olympic Opportunity: This expertise can be scaled up for the Olympic ceremonies by using multiple launch points along the river, including bridges, rooftops, and barges, to create a breathtaking fireworks display. The inclusion of drones or advanced laser light shows synchronized with the fireworks could take the spectacle to a global level, similar to what is seen at major international events like the Olympics or New Year's Eve in global cities. 2. River as a Stage o Riverfire turns the Brisbane River into a dynamic performance space, incorporating lighting effects, floating barges, and aerial performances. The Story Bridge and city skyline often serve as backdrops to the festivities. o Olympic Opportunity: For the Olympics, the river can be used as the main stage for parts of the opening and closing ceremonies. Floating platforms can host live performances, while choreographed water shows, drones, and light displays could interact with the skyline and natural setting. Additionally, the Story Bridge and Kangaroo Point Cliffs could serve as prominent staging areas for performers and special effects. 3. Crowd Management and Viewing Points o Riverfire attracts hundreds of thousands of spectators, spread across the riverbanks, bridges, and surrounding hills. The event organisers are experienced in managing crowds, offering multiple viewing locations along the river, such as South Bank, Kangaroo Point, and the CBD. o Olympic Opportunity: This experience with crowd management can be adapted for the Olympics by designating multiple public viewing zones along the riverbanks, ensuring that large numbers of spectators can enjoy the show without overwhelming a single venue. Big screens, light installations, and audio systems can be installed at strategic locations to provide an immersive experience across the entire city. 4. Aerial and Military Involvement o Riverfire often incorporates military aircraft flyovers, a crowd-favourite feature that adds an extra layer of excitement to the event. This includes fighter jets, helicopters, and stunt planes that perform aerial displays. o Olympic Opportunity: For the Olympics, aerial performances could include not just military flyovers but also drone light shows and artistic aerial displays, integrating storytelling elements relevant to the Olympics. Using drones with LED lights to form Olympic symbols, mascots, or national flags in the sky would provide an awe-inspiring, eco-friendly alternative to traditional fireworks. 5. Broadcasting and Global Reach o Riverfire has been successfully broadcasted to wide audiences, both locally and nationally, showcasing Brisbane’s ability to manage large-scale televised events. With expert camera placements along the river, including aerial views, organizers can capture the event from multiple angles. o Olympic Opportunity: The Olympic opening and closing ceremonies would require a similar but even more sophisticated broadcast operation. Utilizing Brisbane’s scenic riverfront for sweeping camera shots, drones for aerial views, and floating stages for up-close performances would make for an engaging and dynamic broadcast. This would also involve synchronized lighting and pyrotechnics timed perfectly for a global television audience. 6. Transport and Logistics Planning o Riverfire involves significant transport and logistics coordination, ensuring that crowds can move efficiently and safely in and out of the city. Public transport is ramped up, and road closures are strategically planned to minimize congestion. o Olympic Opportunity: Leveraging these logistics experiences will be critical for managing the even larger crowds anticipated for the Olympics. Enhancing ferry services, river transportation, and public transit during the opening and closing ceremonies can provide spectators with seamless access to the riverside events. Special riverboat ferries could even offer premium viewing options for select guests. 7. Collaborations with Local Landmarks o During Riverfire, landmarks like the Story Bridge, Kangaroo Point Cliffs, and the South Bank precinct are illuminated and play a central role in the festivities. These iconic locations serve as natural stages for pyrotechnics and lighting displays. o Olympic Opportunity: The Olympics can amplify these collaborations by using these landmarks as focal points for performances, special effects, and storytelling elements in the ceremonies. For example, the lighting of the Olympic cauldron could involve a dramatic moment cantered around the Story Bridge or Kangaroo Point Cliffs, with choreographed effects highlighting the significance of these Brisbane landmarks. How Riverfire Experience Translates into Olympic Success • Spectacle and Visual Impact: The visual elements of Riverfire, such as large-scale fireworks, choreographed lighting, and river-based performances, provide a strong foundation for creating a visually stunning Olympic ceremony. • Logistics and Safety: Brisbane’s experience in safely managing large crowds and public transport during Riverfire will ensure that the Olympic ceremonies run smoothly without major disruptions. • Environmental Considerations: With increasing focus on sustainability, lessons learned from Riverfire’s recent moves toward eco-friendly fireworks and green initiatives can be applied to the Olympic ceremonies, potentially using drones and light shows in place of traditional fireworks to reduce environmental impact. • Global Broadcasting Experience: Riverfire's extensive experience with multi-location broadcast techniques will ensure that the Olympic ceremonies are televised to a high standard, capturing the beauty and scale of the event for a global audience. Potential Enhancements for the Olympics • Multi-location Spectacles: Instead of focusing only on one spot, Olympic ceremonies could incorporate performances and displays along the entire river, creating a city-wide event. • Floating Olympic Flame: The Olympic cauldron could be placed on a floating platform on the river, with the flame traveling up and down the river throughout the Games, creating a visual and symbolic connection between different parts of Brisbane. • Integration of Indigenous Culture: As part of the Olympic ceremonies, the Brisbane River’s cultural significance to Indigenous Australians can be highlighted, incorporating traditional performances and storytelling as part of the narrative. Can we build it? Yes we can!
Only problem with Sbank is if you look at the gabba, its limited by width. the new 1 would have the same width, even if its longer. you still have ratios to work with so you wouldnt be able to fix in more. your better with 1 of the others. we also have to remember QSAC is not built in terms of seating, its all hatchet job. if you redid it, it could work. throw in the se expressway getting extended into UQ and its viable. Personally love the idea of Northshore. It looks amazing but i think most viable due to location and transport is RNA/Vic park. Too bad they are already in development planning on it after tentative approval on the plans but it could still turn around given already allocated funds to redevelopment. You could do what you have done with northshore too to save cash. When DC gets in too, you would need to convince BNE city council to abandon their plans which he can do given they are both Libs. I dont see Adrian giving it up for labor as much as he is pragmatic. Personally i am for us making a larger stadium of about 110k. We have the growing population and tourism numbers. SEQ actually takes in more tourism than Melbourne and sydney and has a budget of 3 states combined. If you add GC, SC & Brisbane the population is growing faster to become like geelong/melb corridor.
You’re 100% right Mel, QSAC is a stupid idea, and will evaporate as quickly as the Miles Labour Government. I Like the Vic park idea, and sell the Gabba Precinct to fund the new stadium at Vic park. You would also build a permanent aquatic centre for the Olympics at the Gabba. That would mean the Transport options at the Gabba aren’t wasted. The Gabba redevelopment by Developers would have a requirement for guaranteed green space to offset the 12-13% green space lost at Vic Park. So for me it’s a new stadium at Vic Park
like your thinking Mel by far the best solution post games location wise build it new and build it big but 80-100k seat capacity would future proof it, cheers love your topics mate.
There are buses that go to Hamilton along with the ferries and Doomben station is a short walk from Hamilton. And you could easy set up bus ferry system for the Olympics.
QSAC has poor transport and too far from the centre of the city. Redeveloping the Gabba is too disruptive. We are spending billions of dollars on transport, it has to be Victoria Park.
@@electro_sykes The plan is to build a Metro spur: a rail Spur to QE2 would be very expensive. You'd have to either buy up the land to build an overland route, or build tunnels. Either way; that's a whopping cost and there's no secondary usage apart from access to a stadium. The metro spur is equally horrible: forget the costs, there just simply won't be enough capacity to accommodate 40k passengers. Plus demolishing koala-inhabited forest is not going to win any votes with the greenies. All that for a stadium 20minutes away from the city by public transport.
@@MelPikos Yes. I will be selling up and leaving Brisbane before a QSAC Olymics because housing prices will crash after... I think your "Gabba 2.0" is interesting but, is there really enough room between Vulture and Stanley streets?
Option 1 is best of course... but will need a lot of private funding. The Council and state need to work with privates to get it done. This should also trigger an extension of the rail metro from North Shore to CBD.
I agree 100% that any option but QSAC is preferable. But, the problem of what to do with the Gabba in the long run looms. Just rebuild it and get it over with is my opinion
North shore is the obvious best choice IMO. With great legacy transport options such as Doomben track duplication or a new Metro route! A Victoria Park stadium will lead to continued development of the parklands which should be preserved at all costs. As Mel has previously correctly pointed out: building a new stadium has the advantage of still being able to use the Gabba in the interim. Addit: I wish David Crisafulli would take an actual position to the voters, instead of hiding behind another review.
The fate of the 2032 Olympics should not rest on the opinion of 1 politician who clearly has no interest in the job. The Victoria Park venue is the right location for this. Plenty of unused land, public transport access and proximity to the CBD with no compromise made to what other locations lack.... space.
I do not like the Gabba location idea. Stadiums are not daily use facilities; they sit idle for most of the year. Using prime real estate next to a train station, which could be better utilized for residential, commercial, or mixed-use developments, might not be the most efficient land use.
@@jimmyboy2 This is correct but my point is that it is not going to be used 24h/7. Also having such a big venue on top of the train station is a crowd control bad planning. This will cause disruptions on the main train line in the region.
@@garethjd78 They are used very often but not 24h/7. Victoria Park is better option as it can be part of a fantastic public space + multiple public transport options.
An LNP state government will be a repeat of the Campbell Newman disaster for Qld. It’s worth noting that the LNP is rooting for Trump. You wanna give your vote to a party which support a fascist?
should consider the now abandoned auto park at the airport, massive amount of land, and easy access to existing rail connection, it could also be a all year events stadium, that will have no noise concerns for high capacity events, and with a roof you can easily hold music events, and they could fund such a build buy turning the gabba into the cbd 2.0
Whoa -wait? what? You want to build a stadium right next to an airport runway!! A site with zero noise restrictions? How many burst eardrums are you expecting to treat at such a stadium? Okay so you're arguing that the stadium would have a roof. Fine, but wow that's a big roof you've got to build, especially if it's going to replace the Gabba for cricket matches. And that roof's got to be permanent. You've also going to have roofing over all the spillover areas and concourses surrounding the stadium. Double that if you're wanting to integrate a restaurant & cafe district. A roofed stadium is kinda the antithesis of Brisbane isn't it? Sunshine, clear skies, the least number of days per year with rain.... Nothing says that better than being shut out from nature and locked down under artificial lighting.
@@farmerooni stadiums are often used for major musical events, roof primarily being for that. But even after more considering, it has excellent access to the busway if required, northern busway ejects bus's at royal Brisbane hospital, then straight into the airport tunnel to this area. Same with rail connection post cross rive rail. Direct from Roma st.
@@AnarchyEnsues yes I know where it is and I know it's not directly under any flight paths but it is still a lot closer to the final approach of runway 01L and I just think it would realistically be too close to be safe, don't get me wrong I'm all for this idea just being realistic.
Gabba 2.0 won't work. the site is heavily constrained by road infrastructure (including bridges and underpasses) and won't achieve the necessary 500m separation from underground mass transit station access and the stadium entry for crowd control and safety. Only other options include to put on land near the airport and hotels, or on the abandoned Toombul shopping centre site
A stadium at Victoria Park/Barrambin is well connected by mass-transit and also enhances event-day experiences with walkable connections to 'Main Street' at Kelvin Grove Urban Village and King Street (Valley). The north-west corner of the site (ie the driving range) could be demolished to accommodate the stadium.
I know nothing about Brisbane. Never been there. But is there spare land in an area out of the city with good public transport. Then build a stadium from scratch. When finished it can be the main cricket and AFL football ground. Gabba could be sold off to property developers. My other reflection is whether there would be enough time to really develop a centre around the Olympic stadium in the time remaining.
Certainly a lot of risks with big projects, however given the AFL and Cricket both need capacity increases then a new stadium will get great use beyond just the Olympics.
I'm against the Victoria Park idea. The local community already put in their votes and ideas of what they wanted done with that area, and it should stay as is. RNA showgrounds shouldn't be touched they should be heritage listed. QSAC needs to be upgraded in general, but Mt Gravatt is awkward area to get to. I like option 1. Northshore Hamilton, though it probably doesn't need to have apartments on top of the stadium. Can be scaled back version but its right area. Option 2. No. Option. 3. Yes. Option. 4. Great idea!
The stadium idea wasn't even conceived of when Victoria Park was transitioned from golf course to public space. The local community haven't been polled, and we don't know if they'd favour a stadium. Upgrading QSAC means destroying existing forest to get a metro-line spur down to the location. That's native koala habitat that cannot ever be replaced. That's by far a worse outcome for Brisbane, and a much worse opinion to run with. I don't know why you're mentioning the RNA showgrounds: they're not part of any current solution. The idea to use the RNA as a temporary stadium whilst the Gabba got rebuilt was quashed a long time ago.
@farmerooni I mentioned the RNA as it referenced in the beginning of the video. The Victoria Park plan for the green space was consulted with the public years ago.
@@Lantern66 Exactly my point: any plans for the RNA showgrounds have long been scrapped. There is no heritage issue at stake since nothing's planned for the RNA showgrounds. And yes as mentioned -Vic Plan green space consultation happened long before any Olympic Stadium plans were conceived. You can't vote on an option if it hasn't been presented to the public yet.
A good video informing people what has happened and the main proposals. The biggest issue in my opinion is the funding model and i will get to that shortly. I like your model but at this stage the athletics village looks set at Hamilton. Have they not put this out to some sort of tender process recently. Also is it possible to build, engineering wise over the new Cross River Rail. Way more details needed. 60k in legacy mode would be fine and more likely fall within a reasonable budget than a 70k stadium. If 70k is achievable than great Victoria Park is way ahead of Hamilton. Too many issues at Hamilton even if a rail line was to the door. No through rail is a big issue. Then all the issues you mentioned about Hamilton and there are lots more but will leave it at that. Both Labor & LNP have stated no new stadium. There are varying reasons that this is their stance. The overwhelming issue is they can't build a new stadium because of lack of money in the funding model. Thats just a fact that can't be ignored and nobody in the media to my knowledge has mentioned this. The States share is $3,500,000,000 and both the Labor & LNP parties have stated they won't exceed that amount Under the Commonwealth/State agreement each are committed to provide $935,000,000 for minor venues. Miles latest funding breakup Minor Venues: $935,000,000 -fully committed amount as it is in the agreement Gabba Upgrade: $500,000,000 - estimated by Labor Lang Park: $500,000,000 - estimated by Labor Balance left over is only $$1,600,000,000 and that just happens to be the cost of QSAC. So, only half the money left over that's required to build a new stadium and neither political party will go over their budget Any talk of building a new stadium is pie in the sky stuff unless the agreement is changed to a 50/50 split being the usual model. Why was the funding model different in the first place. The federal Government at the time did not want anything to do with funding a Gabba rebuild as they foresaw huge costs blowouts. They committed $2,500,000,000 maximum to Brisbane Arena and $935,000,000,000 to minor venues. Total $3,435,000,000 The only way to get a new stadium is to change the funding model back to 50/50 split of the $7,000,000,000 Olympic budget. Easily done if they wanted too. Then they have to choose what is best for the Olympics and Brisbane: A new stadium or a new Entertainment Centre (Brisbane Arena maximum federal funding to $2,500,000,000). The State to fund anything above this figure. The validation report for Brisbane Arena at Roma Street was $4,000,000,000 plus so a new site is being looked at nearby in Roma Street Gardens carpark and surrounds. An urgent validation report was requested by Miles in March. Either it is completed and not made public, or they are super slow in doing the report. Brisbane does need a new Entertainment Centre but not for the Olympics. It is proposed to have a drop in pool (then removed) which has no legacy for swimming. The Quirk report stated a new $680 million pool can be built at Chandler. That leaves a legacy for swimming and swimming takes more medals for Australia than any other sport. My preference is to cancel/delay the Brisbane Arena idea and have swimming in a brand-new building at Chandler. Build a new Entertainment Centre on the old Gabba site after the Olympics. Room for high story apartments and green space on that big block. Do a deal with developers to reduce or neutralize the costs. John Coates from the IOC retires in December, and he is the one to push QSAC as a legacy for athletics. Coates has stated many times his greatest regret is no athletics legacy at the Sydney Olympics You can still do something at QSAC to keep the IOC on side seeing they will still have a representation member scrutinizing the venues. These are the basic figures you could work from if the funding model was changed to 50/50 split. Note no Brisbane Arena but a new swimming venue. $3.2 billion: New Stadium at Victoria Park/Above Cross River Rail/Hamilton (saves spending $1,450,000,000 on QSAC) $0.5 billion: Gabba upgrade stays the same. $0.62 billion: New pool Chandler (Quirk review costing) $0.00: No need for Lang Park upgrade being $0.5 billion, as the new stadium is used for Opening and closing ceremonies and Athletics $1.87 billion: Minor venues stay the same under the agreement $0.15 billion: QSAC training venue only. Legacy mode 14k upgrade. (Quirk review costing was $0.6 billion but now only training venue) $6.34 billion: total. We are left with $660,000,000 in the kitty for other improvements or overruns. You could funnel more into QSAC if it keeps the IOC on side.
What no one seems to acknowledge is that we need Gabba, QSAC and Victoria Park as venues. What's killing us is the ridiculous project costs due to gouging at every possible level for public infrastructure in Australia.
Any chance you can talk about all the new upgrades and platforms of military helicopters that are being introduced into the ADF. Also how nearly all how all the helicopters will now be based in Townsville and not in brisbane or darwin anymore. Furthermore how townsville is being turned into the "Army Capital of Australia"
Nothshore is by far the best option, it has the best location, most access to various transport options, city is close enough. But yet far enough to keep all that traffic out of it. You need separate locations when you hold multiple events having 2 or 3 events in city just does not work, the roads and public transport cannot handle it. Northshore can have high frequency bus service that would be high capacity buses, ferry's are an option. And much cheaper to have the metro go in and out as it does not need rails. Hamilton is close and it has many options for people to visit restaurants. Most likely still the cheapest option. There would be alot of planning and work to do to get the transport side upto scratch but it is the best option given the time left.
I generally think north shore Hamilton will blow other countries away if he we build something like that it will save Brisbane and its all about thinking big north shore Hamilton all the way
Gabba 2.0 affects another exciting prospect too. East Brisbane state school may actually be able to expand onto some of the land that was previously occupied by the gabba.
Upgrade the main arena at the Ekka. Brand new station right there, Ballymore up the road, Perry Park nearby, Victoria Park can be turned into an aquatic centre.
That's also it's weak point. Ever been to the State Hockey Centre across the river from NorthShore? You get planes 20m above your head flying in to land at the airport. And they come as frequently as every 10 minutes.
I think it should be Gabba redevelopment. This sounds as much of a debacle as the Victorian commonwealth games. Have you done a video on the Melbourne airport rail link Mel?
The Northshore option looks amazing. We need a world class precinct not just stadium. With the public transport issue, can we not build a world class precinct like the north shore example but in Vic Park or Gabba? For me a world class stadium needs to connect via walking to entertainment and shopping venues that's what has sucked about the gabba in the past.
QSAC is an embarrassment. Miles shows no leadership, it all comes down to the perception of restraint while rents and cost of living are skyrocketing. Obviously it’s his strategy is to save his bacon at election but as we all know there is a silent majority who just think he shows no vision for the future of Queensland.
Agree with all reviews on the three options with at least a 70 000+ stadium. Very disappointed with minimal spend on QSAC as they could have made it better, but still not as good as the other three options. I think Mel was a bit tough on the sunnybank/mt gravatt areas. These areas do have alot of services/amenities close by with sunnybank ranking 4th in Brisbane with the most restaurants behind CBD, Valley, and South brisbane, but Mel only chose to show the sunnybank hotel. Overall, the Queenland govt wanted the games so now they have to spend the money and commit. Brisbane will need all this soon, so may as well do it now.
I remember Atlanta being a disaster. I think Brisbane’s current path and effort will surpass it by some margin. Minimum- some stylish main stadium. You can hide the rest on the world stage.
The problem is, they just fighting over what to do rather than action. Hell, the transport system is still in shambles. Northshore would be great but of course short-sighted thinking seems to be the game for the government. They wont expand the train lines, nor the metro, nor fix the roads. I genuinely think the city might be stuffed?
New plans afoot with stadium to be built at Roma Street at the Normanby end. Once built Gabba knocked down and rebuilt as either athlete village or Brisbane Live which could host temporarily the swimming.
Post Expo 88, our glorious leaders made the right decision to pump more money into the site and the result exceeded expectations - at least IMO. It's easy to say with the benefit of hindsight, but they could have resumed a large chunk of Bowen Hills for a fraction of what it would cost today. I'm not a huge fan of the Valley but clearly I'm in the minority - it definitely has more to offer than the suburbs around QSAC and the CBD isn't far away. I get that taxpayers in 1990 would have been less than impressed with part of Brisbane's heritage being bulldozed, but I'm sure the Deen brothers were still in business back then ;)
Gabba 2.0 makes so much more sense than any of the other options, especially QSAC. Let’s hope the Libs get in and get the ball rolling ASAP, otherwise Brisbane is going to look like the backwater that the southerners think we are, and the rest of the world probably will too. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to present Brisbane as a great, beautiful, modern city on the world stage that we cannot afford to stuff up. Hopefully common sense prevails and the work starts in earnest in 2025.
I know this area very well. I grew up and went to school there. The rail access was always under utilised, and with the (so-called) Metro system going through there as well transport is not an issue. The rail track system is extensive which will allow for Rapid transport of materials during construction at lower cost than any of the other proposals with a possible exception of the North Shore option which could use water transport. Your objection to the use of open green space to build a stadium ignores the fact that it’s quite possible and in fact preferable to build a stadium straight over the top of the existing rail yards and busway. Just take a look at Google Earth maps to see what I mean. A stadium in this vicinity would also complement the swimming facilities just around the bend at Roma Street.
I like your idea of leaving the Gabba as it is for a few years whilst the Gabba 2.0 is being built then moving all sports events to the new stadium and demolish the Gabba.
This whole video highlights the lack of wisdom in using new Olympic cities. Australia has hosted the summer games twice before and both Sydney and Melbourne have the infrastructure to host a summer games that Brisbane has to develop to host.
Brisbane is not a well known city in the world. Especially right after the 2028 LA games, this will be the first time millions of people see Brisbane and their expectations will be high. No matter what stadium is built, there will certainly be an influx of tourists and talk about what Brisbane has to offer. We are in a unique situation because we can't afford fancy new stadiums, but can we afford dissapointing the world with average or dated venues? At this rate, Brisbane will only be seen as just a generic city with a forgettable olympics.
Victoria Park stadium is the best option. All the surrounding infrastructure is there. The Gabba can be pulled down and turned into Greenspace. It would be used a lot more than the 12-13% stadium footprint at Vic Park.
"Shambles"? There's still more time than the TOTAL time Sydney had 1993-2000. Everything got started after NSW ALP got elected 1995 and the stadium was open for the "Double Header" in 1998. Honestly. Calm down everyone.
Your idea has merit. Hopefully it can be included in the options. Remains very close to the CBD and highly accessible. Any of the 4 options you discussed are better than the proposed Sth Brisbane option. Brisbane can’t host an Olympics where high schools host sports days, without public transport infrastructure and without any integrated or activated precincts. Brisbane can do better.
I think feasibly speaking, the Victoria Park Olympic precinct is the best idea. Most of the public transport would be in place. However, saying that the Gabba redevelopment would blow out to over $2.7 billion to more like $3 billion, so would Victoria Park blow out. Instead of $3.3 billion it's probably more like nearly $4 billion. As much as a new Olympic Stadium at Hamilton sounds and looks like a great idea and it would be a fantastic venue, having to build the infrastructure to get there within 7.5 years is a big stretch. Plus, the government just blindly giving land away could be risky. Therefore, as much as Hamilton sounds like a fantastic lasting development, the Victoria Park development makes the most economic sense with a lasting legacy for Brisbane. Although, it needs to be minimum 80,000 to future proof. Failing that, just give it to Sydney because with less than 8 years to go there's no time to muck around trying to decide where to hold venues, and what to build. But if I were in government I'm with your Gabba 2.0 proposal. You need to forward this plan to government. It's the best idea, and probably the cheapest.
"the Gabba redevelopment would blow out to over $2.7 billion to more like $3 billion, so would Victoria Park blow out." Not necessarily though. The Gabba redevelopment has some wild estimates due to the confined space in which to work in. There's no spill over area available. There's no onsite storage available -everything has to be shipped in. Think of all the logistics and temporary works needed to keep the adjacent streets open. Now add on costs such as shipping in massive stadium girders at the dead of night to avoid road closures. Victoria Park is more of a greenfield site. Much more space, much less existing infrastructure that needs to be kept open. It's not a perfect site, and there will likely be cost blowouts. Just not as much as somewhere like the Gabba. Bonus points for a topic you haven't thought about: Suncorp stadium. Miles government wants to upgrade Suncorp to accommodate the opening & closing ceremonies. How much extra cost blowout do you expect for this confined site?
@farmerooni they always blow out. Regardless of the development 9 times out of 10 costs are blowing out. Particularly with inflation. Costs estimated are never the actual cost.
@@adamjones1805 Yes, that's correct and no one's disputing this. The point is, a site like the Gabba is always going to be more prone to cost blowouts than somewhere like Victoria Park. It's just the nature of the chosen location. More uncertainties (such as how will you divert traffic to form a construction site footprint) exist for a confined location. The two options aren't the same.
Victoria Park is a great location, Northshore looks unbuildable in it's present form, but a in the round stadium could be built there. Gabba AFL and Cricket can pay for their own venue upgrade not one cent for them!
I don’t mind the Victoria park idea. The site is surrounded by busway stations, you could easily spread the crowd to qut Kelvin’s grove station and royal children’s hospital stations through new pedestrian paths. An expanded pathway through to the Roma street parkland for people who want to walk back (it’s not that far) and as you said the rna station is just a short walk away as well. Building stadiums directly on top of stations doesn’t work from a passenger flow perspective. You need some distance for people to spread out and organise themselves as to where they’re going.
Plus you can add a new train station as part of the land bridge over the ICB. That gives Vic Park the best public transport solution of all the sites, and it's still walkable from the city. I really think Vic Park offers the best legacy infrastructure. Not just stadium, but location. The land bridge shown in those concept plans links Gregory Tce Park to Victoria Park and forms one big mega-park. The park becomes more accessible by the public -a vital component that made Roma St Parklands and Southbank so successful. And of course you've left with the most accessible stadium in Brisbane by public transport, without the associated traffic-jamb problems that blight the Gabba and Suncorp on heavy gamedays.
Agree with all of your comments except the depiction of Sunnybank and Mount Gravatt as being a cultural wasteland. It’s far more vibrant, has better food, cinemas and shopping and much better quality housing stock than inner city localities like Kangaroo point and West End
Social housing where the Gabba is? No chance people will approve that. The place is undergoing a massive gentrification from 10 years ago. There are plenty more bougie high rises planned to be built in the coming years. Social housing there would deter residents and undo all the long term efforts of making the place a destination.
Putting $1 into QE2 is beyond ridiculous, barely any public transport there other than four buses. They’ve just built a massive underground rail that can easily Service a Gabba rebuild or the Victoria Park new stadium. I love the Gabba but it’s gotta go and in 2030 it expires, I love the idea of rebuilding it across the road, but if they can’t completely rebuild it in that space, then for me I’m backing building one at Victoria Park. A new world-class stadium for world-class events (soccer, rugby, cricket, AFL, concerts and oh yeah The Olympics) with a brand-new rail system right underneath it.
New world class stadium at Victoria Park and knock down the gabba and build the new Brisbane live venue in it's place, surely would be better than trying to build it on top of a railway station.
You can't demolish the Gabba 1.0 before the Olympics now because ironically cricket is introduced into the olympics from 2028 onwards and we will need a cricket ground. The Queens Wharf debarcle should be our lesson in not relying on the private sector to deliver our Olympics infrastructure. All it needs is one of the consortium to pull out mid contract and the government is forced to come to the rescue anyways for the benefit of the others in the consortium.
Option 1: Hamilton is illegal. Hosting the Olympics requires that no venues be private - its in the contract. Option 2: Victoria Park is the best value for money, but the Gabba rebuilding also makes sense.
@@paulfri1569 No that makes no sense. The developers are wanting the land for free to build the stadium on. That land is estimated to be around $1 billion in value. They also want the State Government to build public transport out to the stadium. That's also a very big cost. Why would the State Government then turn around (after spending at least $1.5 billion) and buy a $3 billion stadium? At best they'd save money building it themselves. At worst, this is the most rortable rort of a sports-rort imaginable.
![แฉกลโกงงานวัด 2024 [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.106 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/taC5dpP3HXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Qsac option is an embarrassment to this beautiful city and the worst possible option for the games and future Brisbane.
Any of the other 3 options are far superior and gives Brisbane a legacy.
Lino
Couldn’t agree more!
Rebuild the Gabba. There is no replacement idea. The new mass transport underground Gabba station is a huge waste of money without a stadium there. No other option has the same level of connectivity... a few 100 meters. No need to add more transport infrastructure... it's already there! Spend 3 billion. Build it to 80,000. Future proof the city. Put tunnels where the roads are to make the surroundings more walkable/larger stadium footprint as needed. Think BIG! Just do it. Let's Go!!!
You just saved me writing all that cause that is exactly what I think!
I don’t think you’d need 80 000 , 60 000 would be suffice
I agree, this is the best idea
Love the enthusiasm, Jimmy! Let’s think BIG!
@@shottskies This is the problem with Brisbane -- we always think too small.
Gabba 2.0 redevelopment is the best choice.
The Hamilton Northshore option looks amazing, and we definitely need an 80K+ seating international quality stadium. C'mon, we're Australia's third largest city and we keeping thinking small!
is that an area that floods?
lions average 29k and suncorp 37k with inflated crowds due to magic round, no point having 80k stadium. it would be a while elephant. 60k max
There is NO WAY a knock down and rebuild of the Gabba will be less than new build at Victoria Park
Yeah, just consider the amount of construction logistics required to keep the adjacent streets open. Three of these streets being the busiest in Brisbane's southside......
There's also limited space: think about issues like onsite storage. You'd have to transport stadium girders in at the dead of night and rush to erect them before morning peak hour.
No wonder there's such a huge margin of uncertainty in the estimated costs.
@@Birch37 the planning needs to consider PT. Victoria Park cost for stadium only is rubbish without a PT heavy rail plan ie. more cost. Some reason QSAC is flawed.
How are these ridiculous prices even being mooted? The demolition and reconstruction of the Sydney Football Stadium which has a capacity of 42,500 was completed in 2022 at a cost of $828 million dollars... why are your stadiums costing multiple billions of dollars even as mere refurbishments?
CFMEU traffic controllers....
@@aalan4296 As much as I hate conservatives, Labour governments seem to be corrupt to the core. Reminds me of the horrific Carr and co. years here in NSW. How Bob Carr isn't rotting in jail for the rest of his worthless life is beyond me.
@@aalan4296I've worked there and can attest to that, also to many people with clipboards on hand walking around
@@aalan4296 😑🤣🤣🤣
An interesting point to note regarding extending the Doomben line to service a potential North Shore stadium; is that many years back the rail corridor was already widened to accommodate a new set of tracks & the station alignment was built for it. So in fact upgrading the Doomben line would largely just be putting down some new tracks and extending them into the new development.
Also another point to raise is that in your video you suggested the extended line wouldn’t see much use outside big events. However, if the full North Shore plan went ahead then there would be significant number of new apartments in need to transport options.
Also consider that even without the North Shore Stadium proposal the Olympic village is going to be built at North Shore anyways… and will need public transport regardless.
You raise some great points. I’d certainly be happy if Northshore went ahead, we could even potentially create that much needed “circle” line as a next stage by dragging the train line back towards Morningside.
The North Shore site's Achilles heel is still public transport. Even if you did everything you're suggesting, the stadium is still 20 minutes away by train. It's also about 20 minutes away by City Cat as well. And there's no dedicated bus corridor along Kingsford Smith Drive. (Sure you could convert two lanes into bus-only. But unless you're willing to extend these all the way through the valley and into the city, you're just moving the bottlenecks further along to Breakfast Creek.)
That's not a very sensible public transport solution. Remember: all trains head to the city. Anyone looking to get to the Northshore stadium would need to change stations at the city and spend another 20 minutes getting to the games.
To give you an idea of how bad this is: for comparison Boondall is also 20 minutes away by train. You're better off arguing for Boondall over the North Shore, since
(a) The railway infrastructure is already built
(b) You're left with just the one white-elephant, not two.
From what I understand north shore stadium will not happen, even if it was built it wouldn’t be allowed to be used during the Olympics because the plan is to privately funded and thus privately owned, and the IOC doesn’t allow for privately funded stadium or venues to be used as they can’t have full control over it. It’s also just too far from the cbd and Brisbane doesn’t need a new huge stadium all the way out there, it would be a white elephant post games, best way to go is stick with the Gabba re-development or build Victoria park. But just as long as it’s not QSAC, no complaints.
Correct. They'd have to gift the state the stadium and we know pigs would fly before that happened.
Yeah I don't like the costs of the Northshore project: give up $1 billion worth of land, and then commit at least several million to build the public transport. All that so a private consortium can own the new stadium and keep all profits.
The public transport issue alone should kill this idea off. Who wants to catch a train in from the suburbs, change at central only to take a 20minute train (or citycat) journey out to the new stadium?
victoria park is obviously the best but unions and construction contractors will leech as much government money out of it as possible while delaying it
Fastest growing region in Australia ✔️
Record resource tax revenue ✔️
Olympic quality stadium ❌
Bang on my friend!
Well said 🎉
Nominally only. In real terms, people are much poorer post COVID due to inflation. Only DFs want to work hard to bank roll the Olympics
@@web2yt488 It's not really about the Olympics. I just see it as a catalyst to build a better Brisbane. Compared to other major cities, Brisbane really lacks a mixed use CBD that is vibrant with a mix of activities and experiences.
For too long Brisbane has relied on the Gold and Sunshine Coasts to provide leisure and entertainment.
Brisbane needs the Olympics, and needs to do it well. If we do it right, we will get better amenities, better public transport, and a better Brisbane.
If we do it wrong, I guess we get QSAC again? 🤷
Let's rebuild Gabba and connect everything. No choice is better!
Thanks Mel for a great video. Rebuild the Gabba is the best option in my view.
QSAC is the worst idea in the world. The olympics is a HUGE opportunity to put brisbane on the map. Im all for any of these 3 options as long as its not QSAC. Hopefully the LNP can make it happen!!!
Not being overly familiar with Brisbane, my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt. But being a Tasmanian, I can guarantee you this, any talk regarding a stadium is guaranteed to generate opposition from people who dont care for sport or understand economics. Personally, Victoria park seems the best option in my eyes. Sure, it's expensive, but compared to the cost of temporarily upgrading QSAC plus the inevitable Gabba rebuild or redevelopment that will still need to happen in the not too distant future, that is a much more attractive cost in my eyes. Avoiding a Gabba rebuild also avoids the loss of the school, which I can understand people being upset by that prospect. That prime land can then be developed whether for residential or commercial/retail purposes. And quite frankly, I can't help but feel the Gabba has outgrown the area and that area is better suited for things other than a sporting precinct these days. Without getting too political, I feel that Labor knows they are toast this election and, therefore, not giving a **** about what happens with the Olympics infrastructure now and leaving the ****show for the next guys to fix.
@matthewbarber362 fair points but can I raise the school point? How is a school still there? Who in their right mind wants their children crossing one of the busiest south Brisbane roads? ... it's four lanes on all sides and five on two sides. That school should have been moved decades ago! Sorry, harsh but needs to be done.
That Hamilton stadium is stunning. I liked your idea about the Gabba being built next to the old one. Victoria park would be good too. Qsac is a bad idea, whatever they are going to do it need to be started ASAP! 😅
I really love your stadium plan idea! I hope you pitch it to the opposition leader in your interview with him.
I will! Thanks mate!
@@MelPikos Mel, you should suggest the State Govt do a land swap with Council to build a new stadium at Victoria Park.
The Gabba then becomes council park land, which means
-no net public parkland loss (or very little.)
-More parkland for the inner city south side, which is currently lacking and would be much needed. Especially for the high-density development surrounding it.
-Heaps of park space to have both trees/ vegetation areas and sports field areas.
-Brisbane State school can stay where it is (and utilise the field for school sports/ athletics carnivals.)
-Leaving a Public State School in an area that's rapidly densifying (target population being young couples and young families) is sensible forward urban planning. No need for State Govt to buy land 20 years later to accommodate demand.
-Gabba building developers still get to spruik the "close to public parkland" bulletpoint on their marketing spiels: no net loss in buyer appeal.
Love these vids and especially love your Option 4 Mel!!! Bring it on.
Talking Tactics with Mel Pikos, nice content you deserve more subscribers
Thanks mate, I appreciate that!
Northshore Hamilton is the best proposal so far, not only granting us a new stunning stadium but a brand new precient that just looks amazing. They should extend the doomben railway line to Hamilton and double track it, or create a new subway line to connect it to the city and airport. But no matter what we do we must let the liberals into the state government, else Brisbane will be humiliated on a world stage.
100% Matt, we need to present a new vision for QLD.
Except the stadium itself is abominable. Would prefer a more conventional design.
Brisbane 2032 Olympics options
Hi Mel. I really appreciate your passion and I greatly respect how you have given the 2032 Olympic stadium issue serious thought. I also believed that your option 2, as you indicate, is a sound idea. Although, I do not agree with the destruction of the existing Gabba stadium. Especially when there is a belief that the Roma Street Parkland Entertainment Arena is a good idea. Building the Roma Street Parkland Entertainment Arena on top of a critical piece of railway transport infrastructure is ludicrous. What could possibly go wrong? Rather than building the Roma Street Parkland Entertainment Arena, I would strongly suggest that we keep the Gabba stadium and put a roof on it and for it to become the Gabba Entertainment Arena. Especially with due consideration to the significant investment into the Brisbane Cross River rail development. Seriously, there is nothing much wrong with the Gabba stadium, other than the seating capacity. Many deficiencies of the Gabba stadium can be fixed with a bit of a makeover. It has solid bones and a robust cultural history that leads back to a time before European settlers. It makes the existing Gabba stadium an incredibly valuable asset for Brisbane and is currently greatly under utilised. The Australian Cricket Board do not see the Gabba Stadium as a valuable asset because of seating capacity and ticket sales, so let’s repurpose it and keep its legacy for even better uses.
While I am often accused of being a Gypsie - because of the way I walk - I actually do not have crystal balls. 😊 But if you are looking for a sure bet, here it is. The Northshore Hamilton Stadium will cost more than all other options combined. Because nothing is ever actually free, when it comes to business. They will strike problems, delays and a whole bunch of other issues, that they will blame on us and we, the tax payer, will be left to bail them out at considerable cost. If you do not understand what I mean, then please watch the Simpsons episode on the Monorail. S4E12. We seriously cannot afford a free Northshore Hamilton Stadium and anyone that seriously thinks that this is a “free” option is not of a right mind. 😊
You currently identify only four options although you eliminate the first option;
1. Redevelop of QSAC - although you identify this option as far from suitable and is therefore eliminated.
2. Northshore Hamilton Stadium.
3. Victoria Park Redevelopment Stadium.
4. Gabba Redevelopment.
The 2024 Paris Olympics demonstrated that you do not necessarily need a stadium for the opening and closing ceremonies. I have personally seen, smelt and been on the river Sain and I can easily say to you that there is next to no comparison of the Sain to our beautiful Brisbane river, Southbank and the many parks and open adjoining areas beside the Brisbane river.
We really need to think outside of the “Arena”.
Here, for your consideration, are ten possible options with a focus on leveraging existing infrastructure:
1. Utilise the Gabba with Temporary Enhancements
o Brisbane’s existing Gabba stadium can be upgraded with temporary seating, stages, and augmented reality (AR) technology to create a spectacular experience. Modular structures and large LED displays can be installed, turning it into a versatile venue for ceremonies.
2. River Stage and Floating Platforms
o Host the opening/closing ceremonies on the Brisbane River, using floating stages and light shows reflected on the water. Surrounding public areas like South Bank and Kangaroo Point can provide spectator spaces, with large screens projecting the event.
3. Hybrid Virtual & In-Person Ceremonies
o A mixed-reality ceremony using augmented reality (AR) and virtual reality (VR) could allow viewers from across the world to participate. For the physical portion, stadiums like Suncorp or The Gabba could host smaller live audiences while global audiences tune in virtually.
4. Multiple Venues Across the City
o Rather than focusing on one stadium, Brisbane can utilise multiple iconic locations for different parts of the ceremony. For example, lighting the Olympic flame at the Gabba, while live performances happen at the Queensland Performing Arts Centre (QPAC), all connected via live broadcasts.
5. Pop-Up Arenas in Public Parks
o Use temporary but environmentally friendly structures like pop-up arenas in places such as Roma Street Parkland or the Brisbane Botanic Gardens. These structures can be designed with sustainability in mind, and the open spaces will allow for large public gatherings.
6. Stadium Queensland - Fully Temporary Overlay
o A fully modular, temporary stadium overlay could be placed in existing sporting venues. This option would involve installing a temporary grandstand and staging equipment that is removed after the event, leaving minimal footprint.
7. Use of Entertainment Venues & Public Viewing Zones
o Leverage Brisbane’s entertainment venues like Brisbane Entertainment Centre, and nearby public spaces with giant screens. A scaled-down ceremony in these venues, paired with public viewing zones, can spread out spectators while creating a citywide celebration.
8. Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast Collaboration
o Partner with the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast, using its stadiums and beaches to create a multi-location event. One part of the ceremony could take place in Brisbane while another segment is hosted on the beaches of the Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast, offering a unique experience.
9. Transform the Brisbane Convention & Exhibition Centre
o The BCEC can be transformed into a massive, multi-purpose venue with large viewing screens, indoor pyrotechnics, and state-of-the-art lighting to create an immersive experience. Additional outdoor screens can cater to large crowds.
10. Public Squares & Street Celebrations
• Turn Brisbane’s key public squares like King George Square and the Story Bridge into central hubs for the ceremonies. Use these landmarks as stages for live performances and cultural showcases, integrated with technology-driven visual displays.
I recommend and believe that the best option currently for Brisbane is revised Option 2 from above - River Stage and Floating Platforms. This leverages greatly off our significant experience of many RiverFire events since 2009, Warana events since 1962, Commonwealth Games of 1982 and 2018 and World Expo 88 experience. There is no doubt in my mind that we can produce a spectacular world class leading experience. We have done it many times in the before and will do it again.
Key Elements of Riverfire and Their Relevance to the Olympics
1. Pyrotechnics Expertise
o Riverfire is renowned for its large-scale fireworks displays, synchronized across multiple locations along the Brisbane River. These displays are choreographed to music and involve intricate timing.
o Olympic Opportunity: This expertise can be scaled up for the Olympic ceremonies by using multiple launch points along the river, including bridges, rooftops, and barges, to create a breathtaking fireworks display. The inclusion of drones or advanced laser light shows synchronized with the fireworks could take the spectacle to a global level, similar to what is seen at major international events like the Olympics or New Year's Eve in global cities.
2. River as a Stage
o Riverfire turns the Brisbane River into a dynamic performance space, incorporating lighting effects, floating barges, and aerial performances. The Story Bridge and city skyline often serve as backdrops to the festivities.
o Olympic Opportunity: For the Olympics, the river can be used as the main stage for parts of the opening and closing ceremonies. Floating platforms can host live performances, while choreographed water shows, drones, and light displays could interact with the skyline and natural setting. Additionally, the Story Bridge and Kangaroo Point Cliffs could serve as prominent staging areas for performers and special effects.
3. Crowd Management and Viewing Points
o Riverfire attracts hundreds of thousands of spectators, spread across the riverbanks, bridges, and surrounding hills. The event organisers are experienced in managing crowds, offering multiple viewing locations along the river, such as South Bank, Kangaroo Point, and the CBD.
o Olympic Opportunity: This experience with crowd management can be adapted for the Olympics by designating multiple public viewing zones along the riverbanks, ensuring that large numbers of spectators can enjoy the show without overwhelming a single venue. Big screens, light installations, and audio systems can be installed at strategic locations to provide an immersive experience across the entire city.
4. Aerial and Military Involvement
o Riverfire often incorporates military aircraft flyovers, a crowd-favourite feature that adds an extra layer of excitement to the event. This includes fighter jets, helicopters, and stunt planes that perform aerial displays.
o Olympic Opportunity: For the Olympics, aerial performances could include not just military flyovers but also drone light shows and artistic aerial displays, integrating storytelling elements relevant to the Olympics. Using drones with LED lights to form Olympic symbols, mascots, or national flags in the sky would provide an awe-inspiring, eco-friendly alternative to traditional fireworks.
5. Broadcasting and Global Reach
o Riverfire has been successfully broadcasted to wide audiences, both locally and nationally, showcasing Brisbane’s ability to manage large-scale televised events. With expert camera placements along the river, including aerial views, organizers can capture the event from multiple angles.
o Olympic Opportunity: The Olympic opening and closing ceremonies would require a similar but even more sophisticated broadcast operation. Utilizing Brisbane’s scenic riverfront for sweeping camera shots, drones for aerial views, and floating stages for up-close performances would make for an engaging and dynamic broadcast. This would also involve synchronized lighting and pyrotechnics timed perfectly for a global television audience.
6. Transport and Logistics Planning
o Riverfire involves significant transport and logistics coordination, ensuring that crowds can move efficiently and safely in and out of the city. Public transport is ramped up, and road closures are strategically planned to minimize congestion.
o Olympic Opportunity: Leveraging these logistics experiences will be critical for managing the even larger crowds anticipated for the Olympics. Enhancing ferry services, river transportation, and public transit during the opening and closing ceremonies can provide spectators with seamless access to the riverside events. Special riverboat ferries could even offer premium viewing options for select guests.
7. Collaborations with Local Landmarks
o During Riverfire, landmarks like the Story Bridge, Kangaroo Point Cliffs, and the South Bank precinct are illuminated and play a central role in the festivities. These iconic locations serve as natural stages for pyrotechnics and lighting displays.
o Olympic Opportunity: The Olympics can amplify these collaborations by using these landmarks as focal points for performances, special effects, and storytelling elements in the ceremonies. For example, the lighting of the Olympic cauldron could involve a dramatic moment cantered around the Story Bridge or Kangaroo Point Cliffs, with choreographed effects highlighting the significance of these Brisbane landmarks.
How Riverfire Experience Translates into Olympic Success
• Spectacle and Visual Impact: The visual elements of Riverfire, such as large-scale fireworks, choreographed lighting, and river-based performances, provide a strong foundation for creating a visually stunning Olympic ceremony.
• Logistics and Safety: Brisbane’s experience in safely managing large crowds and public transport during Riverfire will ensure that the Olympic ceremonies run smoothly without major disruptions.
• Environmental Considerations: With increasing focus on sustainability, lessons learned from Riverfire’s recent moves toward eco-friendly fireworks and green initiatives can be applied to the Olympic ceremonies, potentially using drones and light shows in place of traditional fireworks to reduce environmental impact.
• Global Broadcasting Experience: Riverfire's extensive experience with multi-location broadcast techniques will ensure that the Olympic ceremonies are televised to a high standard, capturing the beauty and scale of the event for a global audience.
Potential Enhancements for the Olympics
• Multi-location Spectacles: Instead of focusing only on one spot, Olympic ceremonies could incorporate performances and displays along the entire river, creating a city-wide event.
• Floating Olympic Flame: The Olympic cauldron could be placed on a floating platform on the river, with the flame traveling up and down the river throughout the Games, creating a visual and symbolic connection between different parts of Brisbane.
• Integration of Indigenous Culture: As part of the Olympic ceremonies, the Brisbane River’s cultural significance to Indigenous Australians can be highlighted, incorporating traditional performances and storytelling as part of the narrative.
Can we build it? Yes we can!
I recommend and believe that the best option currently for Brisbane is revised Option 2 from above - River Stage and Floating Platforms. This leverages greatly off our significant experience of many RiverFire events since 2009, Warana events since 1962, Commonwealth Games of 1982 and 2018 and World Expo 88 experience. There is no doubt in my mind that we can produce a spectacular world class leading experience. We have done it many times in the before and will do it again.
Key Elements of Riverfire and Their Relevance to the Olympics
1. Pyrotechnics Expertise
o Riverfire is renowned for its large-scale fireworks displays, synchronized across multiple locations along the Brisbane River. These displays are choreographed to music and involve intricate timing.
o Olympic Opportunity: This expertise can be scaled up for the Olympic ceremonies by using multiple launch points along the river, including bridges, rooftops, and barges, to create a breathtaking fireworks display. The inclusion of drones or advanced laser light shows synchronized with the fireworks could take the spectacle to a global level, similar to what is seen at major international events like the Olympics or New Year's Eve in global cities.
2. River as a Stage
o Riverfire turns the Brisbane River into a dynamic performance space, incorporating lighting effects, floating barges, and aerial performances. The Story Bridge and city skyline often serve as backdrops to the festivities.
o Olympic Opportunity: For the Olympics, the river can be used as the main stage for parts of the opening and closing ceremonies. Floating platforms can host live performances, while choreographed water shows, drones, and light displays could interact with the skyline and natural setting. Additionally, the Story Bridge and Kangaroo Point Cliffs could serve as prominent staging areas for performers and special effects.
3. Crowd Management and Viewing Points
o Riverfire attracts hundreds of thousands of spectators, spread across the riverbanks, bridges, and surrounding hills. The event organisers are experienced in managing crowds, offering multiple viewing locations along the river, such as South Bank, Kangaroo Point, and the CBD.
o Olympic Opportunity: This experience with crowd management can be adapted for the Olympics by designating multiple public viewing zones along the riverbanks, ensuring that large numbers of spectators can enjoy the show without overwhelming a single venue. Big screens, light installations, and audio systems can be installed at strategic locations to provide an immersive experience across the entire city.
4. Aerial and Military Involvement
o Riverfire often incorporates military aircraft flyovers, a crowd-favourite feature that adds an extra layer of excitement to the event. This includes fighter jets, helicopters, and stunt planes that perform aerial displays.
o Olympic Opportunity: For the Olympics, aerial performances could include not just military flyovers but also drone light shows and artistic aerial displays, integrating storytelling elements relevant to the Olympics. Using drones with LED lights to form Olympic symbols, mascots, or national flags in the sky would provide an awe-inspiring, eco-friendly alternative to traditional fireworks.
5. Broadcasting and Global Reach
o Riverfire has been successfully broadcasted to wide audiences, both locally and nationally, showcasing Brisbane’s ability to manage large-scale televised events. With expert camera placements along the river, including aerial views, organizers can capture the event from multiple angles.
o Olympic Opportunity: The Olympic opening and closing ceremonies would require a similar but even more sophisticated broadcast operation. Utilizing Brisbane’s scenic riverfront for sweeping camera shots, drones for aerial views, and floating stages for up-close performances would make for an engaging and dynamic broadcast. This would also involve synchronized lighting and pyrotechnics timed perfectly for a global television audience.
6. Transport and Logistics Planning
o Riverfire involves significant transport and logistics coordination, ensuring that crowds can move efficiently and safely in and out of the city. Public transport is ramped up, and road closures are strategically planned to minimize congestion.
o Olympic Opportunity: Leveraging these logistics experiences will be critical for managing the even larger crowds anticipated for the Olympics. Enhancing ferry services, river transportation, and public transit during the opening and closing ceremonies can provide spectators with seamless access to the riverside events. Special riverboat ferries could even offer premium viewing options for select guests.
7. Collaborations with Local Landmarks
o During Riverfire, landmarks like the Story Bridge, Kangaroo Point Cliffs, and the South Bank precinct are illuminated and play a central role in the festivities. These iconic locations serve as natural stages for pyrotechnics and lighting displays.
o Olympic Opportunity: The Olympics can amplify these collaborations by using these landmarks as focal points for performances, special effects, and storytelling elements in the ceremonies. For example, the lighting of the Olympic cauldron could involve a dramatic moment cantered around the Story Bridge or Kangaroo Point Cliffs, with choreographed effects highlighting the significance of these Brisbane landmarks.
How Riverfire Experience Translates into Olympic Success
• Spectacle and Visual Impact: The visual elements of Riverfire, such as large-scale fireworks, choreographed lighting, and river-based performances, provide a strong foundation for creating a visually stunning Olympic ceremony.
• Logistics and Safety: Brisbane’s experience in safely managing large crowds and public transport during Riverfire will ensure that the Olympic ceremonies run smoothly without major disruptions.
• Environmental Considerations: With increasing focus on sustainability, lessons learned from Riverfire’s recent moves toward eco-friendly fireworks and green initiatives can be applied to the Olympic ceremonies, potentially using drones and light shows in place of traditional fireworks to reduce environmental impact.
• Global Broadcasting Experience: Riverfire's extensive experience with multi-location broadcast techniques will ensure that the Olympic ceremonies are televised to a high standard, capturing the beauty and scale of the event for a global audience.
Potential Enhancements for the Olympics
• Multi-location Spectacles: Instead of focusing only on one spot, Olympic ceremonies could incorporate performances and displays along the entire river, creating a city-wide event.
• Floating Olympic Flame: The Olympic cauldron could be placed on a floating platform on the river, with the flame traveling up and down the river throughout the Games, creating a visual and symbolic connection between different parts of Brisbane.
• Integration of Indigenous Culture: As part of the Olympic ceremonies, the Brisbane River’s cultural significance to Indigenous Australians can be highlighted, incorporating traditional performances and storytelling as part of the narrative.
Can we build it? Yes we can!
Only problem with Sbank is if you look at the gabba, its limited by width. the new 1 would have the same width, even if its longer. you still have ratios to work with so you wouldnt be able to fix in more. your better with 1 of the others. we also have to remember QSAC is not built in terms of seating, its all hatchet job. if you redid it, it could work. throw in the se expressway getting extended into UQ and its viable. Personally love the idea of Northshore. It looks amazing but i think most viable due to location and transport is RNA/Vic park. Too bad they are already in development planning on it after tentative approval on the plans but it could still turn around given already allocated funds to redevelopment. You could do what you have done with northshore too to save cash. When DC gets in too, you would need to convince BNE city council to abandon their plans which he can do given they are both Libs. I dont see Adrian giving it up for labor as much as he is pragmatic. Personally i am for us making a larger stadium of about 110k. We have the growing population and tourism numbers. SEQ actually takes in more tourism than Melbourne and sydney and has a budget of 3 states combined. If you add GC, SC & Brisbane the population is growing faster to become like geelong/melb corridor.
You’re 100% right Mel, QSAC is a stupid idea, and will evaporate as quickly as the Miles Labour Government. I Like the Vic park idea, and sell the Gabba Precinct to fund the new stadium at Vic park. You would also build a permanent aquatic centre for the Olympics at the Gabba. That would mean the Transport options at the Gabba aren’t wasted. The Gabba redevelopment by Developers would have a requirement for guaranteed green space to offset the 12-13% green space lost at Vic Park. So for me it’s a new stadium at Vic Park
Let’s hope common sense prevails!
like your thinking Mel by far the best solution post games location wise build it new and build it big but 80-100k seat capacity would future proof it, cheers love your topics mate.
There are buses that go to Hamilton along with the ferries and Doomben station is a short walk from Hamilton. And you could easy set up bus ferry system for the Olympics.
Another excellent vid. Out with Miles bring in the new!
QSAC has poor transport and too far from the centre of the city. Redeveloping the Gabba is too disruptive. We are spending billions of dollars on transport, it has to be Victoria Park.
If the slightly updated QE2 Stadium is chosen then I can guarantee that the Brisbane Olympics will be a shambles like Sochi.
We could pull it off but we will need to do what Sydney did and build a rail spur as well as a branch of the metro out there
We would be an international embarrassment if QE2 is what we showcase to the world.
@@electro_sykes The plan is to build a Metro spur: a rail Spur to QE2 would be very expensive. You'd have to either buy up the land to build an overland route, or build tunnels. Either way; that's a whopping cost and there's no secondary usage apart from access to a stadium.
The metro spur is equally horrible: forget the costs, there just simply won't be enough capacity to accommodate 40k passengers.
Plus demolishing koala-inhabited forest is not going to win any votes with the greenies.
All that for a stadium 20minutes away from the city by public transport.
@@electro_sykes you said “out there”. Quite right.
@@MelPikos Yes. I will be selling up and leaving Brisbane before a QSAC Olymics because housing prices will crash after...
I think your "Gabba 2.0" is interesting but, is there really enough room between Vulture and Stanley streets?
well presented I like your idea of building next to the old Gabba it has merit Jim Green
Option 1 is best of course... but will need a lot of private funding. The Council and state need to work with privates to get it done. This should also trigger an extension of the rail metro from North Shore to CBD.
I agree 100% that any option but QSAC is preferable. But, the problem of what to do with the Gabba in the long run looms. Just rebuild it and get it over with is my opinion
If Vic Park or Hamilton are chosen the Gabba is demolished the land repurposed.
North shore is the obvious best choice IMO. With great legacy transport options such as Doomben track duplication or a new Metro route!
A Victoria Park stadium will lead to continued development of the parklands which should be preserved at all costs.
As Mel has previously correctly pointed out: building a new stadium has the advantage of still being able to use the Gabba in the interim.
Addit:
I wish David Crisafulli would take an actual position to the voters, instead of hiding behind another review.
The fate of the 2032 Olympics should not rest on the opinion of 1 politician who clearly has no interest in the job. The Victoria Park venue is the right location for this. Plenty of unused land, public transport access and proximity to the CBD with no compromise made to what other locations lack.... space.
Remember, when ur in the government, nothing is common sense.
Hahah love it Rock
I do not like the Gabba location idea. Stadiums are not daily use facilities; they sit idle for most of the year. Using prime real estate next to a train station, which could be better utilized for residential, commercial, or mixed-use developments, might not be the most efficient land use.
Tell that to the people of Melbourne. Our Tennis/AFL precinct is widely used and the envy of the world.
@Fabian-mh1ji if it's built properly then more gigs will come. Taylor Swift?
@@jimmyboy2 This is correct but my point is that it is not going to be used 24h/7.
Also having such a big venue on top of the train station is a crowd control bad planning. This will cause disruptions on the main train line in the region.
@@garethjd78 They are used very often but not 24h/7. Victoria Park is better option as it can be part of a fantastic public space + multiple public transport options.
Another great vid!! Please tell me that David CF is going to put a light rail plan forward for Brisbane …. We desperately need this. 🤞🏻
An LNP state government will be a repeat of the Campbell Newman disaster for Qld.
It’s worth noting that the LNP is rooting for Trump. You wanna give your vote to a party which support a fascist?
Thanks mate! My money is on expanding the capacity of Brisbane Metro.
I like your suggestion and it should be pitched. If that’s not a go then the Gabba is the best option.
should consider the now abandoned auto park at the airport, massive amount of land, and easy access to existing rail connection, it could also be a all year events stadium, that will have no noise concerns for high capacity events, and with a roof you can easily hold music events, and they could fund such a build buy turning the gabba into the cbd 2.0
Whoa -wait? what? You want to build a stadium right next to an airport runway!! A site with zero noise restrictions? How many burst eardrums are you expecting to treat at such a stadium?
Okay so you're arguing that the stadium would have a roof. Fine, but wow that's a big roof you've got to build, especially if it's going to replace the Gabba for cricket matches. And that roof's got to be permanent. You've also going to have roofing over all the spillover areas and concourses surrounding the stadium. Double that if you're wanting to integrate a restaurant & cafe district.
A roofed stadium is kinda the antithesis of Brisbane isn't it? Sunshine, clear skies, the least number of days per year with rain.... Nothing says that better than being shut out from nature and locked down under artificial lighting.
@@farmerooni stadiums are often used for major musical events, roof primarily being for that.
But even after more considering, it has excellent access to the busway if required, northern busway ejects bus's at royal Brisbane hospital, then straight into the airport tunnel to this area. Same with rail connection post cross rive rail. Direct from Roma st.
I had this idea also however there might be some airspace concerns being so close to the runway final approach
@@leighdonald1467 its between the two run ways, not under any flight parth, as you drive to the air port, its on the rhs, big area with no grass.
@@AnarchyEnsues yes I know where it is and I know it's not directly under any flight paths but it is still a lot closer to the final approach of runway 01L and I just think it would realistically be too close to be safe, don't get me wrong I'm all for this idea just being realistic.
QSAC isn’t even anywhere near the city. What’s Miles thinking?!
Miles by name. Miles by distance.
Gabba 2.0 won't work. the site is heavily constrained by road infrastructure (including bridges and underpasses) and won't achieve the necessary 500m separation from underground mass transit station access and the stadium entry for crowd control and safety. Only other options include to put on land near the airport and hotels, or on the abandoned Toombul shopping centre site
A stadium at Victoria Park/Barrambin is well connected by mass-transit and also enhances event-day experiences with walkable connections to 'Main Street' at Kelvin Grove Urban Village and King Street (Valley). The north-west corner of the site (ie the driving range) could be demolished to accommodate the stadium.
I know nothing about Brisbane. Never been there. But is there spare land in an area out of the city with good public transport. Then build a stadium from scratch. When finished it can be the main cricket and AFL football ground. Gabba could be sold off to property developers. My other reflection is whether there would be enough time to really develop a centre around the Olympic stadium in the time remaining.
The Casino is a good example of what might happen! Time to give up the Olympics.
Certainly a lot of risks with big projects, however given the AFL and Cricket both need capacity increases then a new stadium will get great use beyond just the Olympics.
Too late to do that: giving up on the Olympics will cost at least $1 billion. All that money and humiliation on the world stage for nothing!
I'm against the Victoria Park idea. The local community already put in their votes and ideas of what they wanted done with that area, and it should stay as is. RNA showgrounds shouldn't be touched they should be heritage listed. QSAC needs to be upgraded in general, but Mt Gravatt is awkward area to get to.
I like option 1. Northshore Hamilton, though it probably doesn't need to have apartments on top of the stadium. Can be scaled back version but its right area.
Option 2. No.
Option. 3. Yes.
Option. 4. Great idea!
The stadium idea wasn't even conceived of when Victoria Park was transitioned from golf course to public space. The local community haven't been polled, and we don't know if they'd favour a stadium.
Upgrading QSAC means destroying existing forest to get a metro-line spur down to the location. That's native koala habitat that cannot ever be replaced. That's by far a worse outcome for Brisbane, and a much worse opinion to run with.
I don't know why you're mentioning the RNA showgrounds: they're not part of any current solution. The idea to use the RNA as a temporary stadium whilst the Gabba got rebuilt was quashed a long time ago.
@farmerooni I mentioned the RNA as it referenced in the beginning of the video.
The Victoria Park plan for the green space was consulted with the public years ago.
@@Lantern66 Exactly my point: any plans for the RNA showgrounds have long been scrapped. There is no heritage issue at stake since nothing's planned for the RNA showgrounds.
And yes as mentioned -Vic Plan green space consultation happened long before any Olympic Stadium plans were conceived. You can't vote on an option if it hasn't been presented to the public yet.
A good video informing people what has happened and the main proposals.
The biggest issue in my opinion is the funding model and i will get to that shortly.
I like your model but at this stage the athletics village looks set at Hamilton.
Have they not put this out to some sort of tender process recently.
Also is it possible to build, engineering wise over the new Cross River Rail. Way more details needed.
60k in legacy mode would be fine and more likely fall within a reasonable budget than a 70k stadium. If 70k is achievable than great
Victoria Park is way ahead of Hamilton. Too many issues at Hamilton even if a rail line was to the door. No through rail is a big issue.
Then all the issues you mentioned about Hamilton and there are lots more but will leave it at that.
Both Labor & LNP have stated no new stadium. There are varying reasons that this is their stance.
The overwhelming issue is they can't build a new stadium because of lack of money in the funding model.
Thats just a fact that can't be ignored and nobody in the media to my knowledge has mentioned this.
The States share is $3,500,000,000 and both the Labor & LNP parties have stated they won't exceed that amount
Under the Commonwealth/State agreement each are committed to provide $935,000,000 for minor venues.
Miles latest funding breakup
Minor Venues: $935,000,000 -fully committed amount as it is in the agreement
Gabba Upgrade: $500,000,000 - estimated by Labor
Lang Park: $500,000,000 - estimated by Labor
Balance left over is only $$1,600,000,000 and that just happens to be the cost of QSAC.
So, only half the money left over that's required to build a new stadium and neither political party will go over their budget
Any talk of building a new stadium is pie in the sky stuff unless the agreement is changed to a 50/50 split being the usual model.
Why was the funding model different in the first place.
The federal Government at the time did not want anything to do with funding a Gabba rebuild as they foresaw huge costs blowouts.
They committed $2,500,000,000 maximum to Brisbane Arena and $935,000,000,000 to minor venues. Total $3,435,000,000
The only way to get a new stadium is to change the funding model back to 50/50 split of the $7,000,000,000 Olympic budget. Easily done if they wanted too.
Then they have to choose what is best for the Olympics and Brisbane:
A new stadium or a new Entertainment Centre (Brisbane Arena maximum federal funding to $2,500,000,000). The State to fund anything above this figure.
The validation report for Brisbane Arena at Roma Street was $4,000,000,000 plus so a new site is being looked at nearby in Roma Street Gardens carpark and surrounds.
An urgent validation report was requested by Miles in March. Either it is completed and not made public, or they are super slow in doing the report.
Brisbane does need a new Entertainment Centre but not for the Olympics. It is proposed to have a drop in pool (then removed) which has no legacy for swimming.
The Quirk report stated a new $680 million pool can be built at Chandler.
That leaves a legacy for swimming and swimming takes more medals for Australia than any other sport.
My preference is to cancel/delay the Brisbane Arena idea and have swimming in a brand-new building at Chandler.
Build a new Entertainment Centre on the old Gabba site after the Olympics. Room for high story apartments and green space on that big block.
Do a deal with developers to reduce or neutralize the costs.
John Coates from the IOC retires in December, and he is the one to push QSAC as a legacy for athletics.
Coates has stated many times his greatest regret is no athletics legacy at the Sydney Olympics
You can still do something at QSAC to keep the IOC on side seeing they will still have a representation member scrutinizing the venues.
These are the basic figures you could work from if the funding model was changed to 50/50 split. Note no Brisbane Arena but a new swimming venue.
$3.2 billion: New Stadium at Victoria Park/Above Cross River Rail/Hamilton (saves spending $1,450,000,000 on QSAC)
$0.5 billion: Gabba upgrade stays the same.
$0.62 billion: New pool Chandler (Quirk review costing)
$0.00: No need for Lang Park upgrade being $0.5 billion, as the new stadium is used for Opening and closing ceremonies and Athletics
$1.87 billion: Minor venues stay the same under the agreement
$0.15 billion: QSAC training venue only. Legacy mode 14k upgrade. (Quirk review costing was $0.6 billion but now only training venue)
$6.34 billion: total.
We are left with $660,000,000 in the kitty for other improvements or overruns. You could funnel more into QSAC if it keeps the IOC on side.
+1 to current QSAC redevelopment plan is DUMB
What no one seems to acknowledge is that we need Gabba, QSAC and Victoria Park as venues. What's killing us is the ridiculous project costs due to gouging at every possible level for public infrastructure in Australia.
Any chance you can talk about all the new upgrades and platforms of military helicopters that are being introduced into the ADF. Also how nearly all how all the helicopters will now be based in Townsville and not in brisbane or darwin anymore. Furthermore how townsville is being turned into the "Army Capital of Australia"
Nothshore is by far the best option, it has the best location, most access to various transport options, city is close enough. But yet far enough to keep all that traffic out of it. You need separate locations when you hold multiple events having 2 or 3 events in city just does not work, the roads and public transport cannot handle it.
Northshore can have high frequency bus service that would be high capacity buses, ferry's are an option.
And much cheaper to have the metro go in and out as it does not need rails. Hamilton is close and it has many options for people to visit restaurants. Most likely still the cheapest option. There would be alot of planning and work to do to get the transport side upto scratch but it is the best option given the time left.
I generally think north shore Hamilton will blow other countries away if he we build something like that it will save Brisbane and its all about thinking big north shore Hamilton all the way
Gabba 2.0 affects another exciting prospect too. East Brisbane state school may actually be able to expand onto some of the land that was previously occupied by the gabba.
North-north-east Hamilton..🎉
Agree 🎉
Sounds like you're trying to relabel Boondall Stadium!
Upgrade the main arena at the Ekka. Brand new station right there, Ballymore up the road, Perry Park nearby, Victoria Park can be turned into an aquatic centre.
Northshore is very cool and a logical choice as it's near the athlete's village, plus the Brisbane airport..
That's also it's weak point. Ever been to the State Hockey Centre across the river from NorthShore? You get planes 20m above your head flying in to land at the airport. And they come as frequently as every 10 minutes.
I think it should be Gabba redevelopment. This sounds as much of a debacle as the Victorian commonwealth games. Have you done a video on the Melbourne airport rail link Mel?
The Gabba is a car park almost everyday..
Hamilton Northsure with more seating would be amazing. As for transport, just build some! We'll need more by the Olympics anyway
The Northshore option looks amazing. We need a world class precinct not just stadium.
With the public transport issue, can we not build a world class precinct like the north shore example but in Vic Park or Gabba?
For me a world class stadium needs to connect via walking to entertainment and shopping venues that's what has sucked about the gabba in the past.
QSAC is an embarrassment. Miles shows no leadership, it all comes down to the perception of restraint while rents and cost of living are skyrocketing. Obviously it’s his strategy is to save his bacon at election but as we all know there is a silent majority who just think he shows no vision for the future of Queensland.
The iconic one would be great!
Agree with all reviews on the three options with at least a 70 000+ stadium. Very disappointed with minimal spend on QSAC as they could have made it better, but still not as good as the other three options. I think Mel was a bit tough on the sunnybank/mt gravatt areas. These areas do have alot of services/amenities close by with sunnybank ranking 4th in Brisbane with the most restaurants behind CBD, Valley, and South brisbane, but Mel only chose to show the sunnybank hotel. Overall, the Queenland govt wanted the games so now they have to spend the money and commit. Brisbane will need all this soon, so may as well do it now.
I remember Atlanta being a disaster.
I think Brisbane’s current path and effort will surpass it by some margin.
Minimum- some stylish main stadium.
You can hide the rest on the world stage.
The problem is, they just fighting over what to do rather than action. Hell, the transport system is still in shambles. Northshore would be great but of course short-sighted thinking seems to be the game for the government. They wont expand the train lines, nor the metro, nor fix the roads. I genuinely think the city might be stuffed?
The Gabba option for me please. Leave Victoria Park alone, we need it
@suprememaster99 agree. And leave Victoria Park alone. Grassy knolls with trees is perfect. Redirect the $$$ to the gabba 🤘👌✌️👍
New plans afoot with stadium to be built at Roma Street at the Normanby end. Once built Gabba knocked down and rebuilt as either athlete village or Brisbane Live which could host temporarily the swimming.
Post Expo 88, our glorious leaders made the right decision to pump more money into the site and the result exceeded expectations - at least IMO. It's easy to say with the benefit of hindsight, but they could have resumed a large chunk of Bowen Hills for a fraction of what it would cost today. I'm not a huge fan of the Valley but clearly I'm in the minority - it definitely has more to offer than the suburbs around QSAC and the CBD isn't far away. I get that taxpayers in 1990 would have been less than impressed with part of Brisbane's heritage being bulldozed, but I'm sure the Deen brothers were still in business back then ;)
I will have to wait and see when other major construction works happens into the future.
Gabba 2.0 makes so much more sense than any of the other options, especially QSAC. Let’s hope the Libs get in and get the ball rolling ASAP, otherwise Brisbane is going to look like the backwater that the southerners think we are, and the rest of the world probably will too. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to present Brisbane as a great, beautiful, modern city on the world stage that we cannot afford to stuff up. Hopefully common sense prevails and the work starts in earnest in 2025.
Also wiping out green space at Vic Park, to use your own words, is a joke.
I know this area very well. I grew up and went to school there. The rail access was always under utilised, and with the (so-called) Metro system going through there as well transport is not an issue. The rail track system is extensive which will allow for Rapid transport of materials during construction at lower cost than any of the other proposals with a possible exception of the North Shore option which could use water transport. Your objection to the use of open green space to build a stadium ignores the fact that it’s quite possible and in fact preferable to build a stadium straight over the top of the existing rail yards and busway. Just take a look at Google Earth maps to see what I mean. A stadium in this vicinity would also complement the swimming facilities just around the bend at Roma Street.
Your idea is brilliant and makes the most sense.
I like your idea of leaving the Gabba as it is for a few years whilst the Gabba 2.0 is being built then moving all sports events to the new stadium and demolish the Gabba.
North shore Hamilton would be amazing, but all 3 options are good. But please no QSAC!!!
This whole video highlights the lack of wisdom in using new Olympic cities. Australia has hosted the summer games twice before and both Sydney and Melbourne have the infrastructure to host a summer games that Brisbane has to develop to host.
Brisbane is not a well known city in the world. Especially right after the 2028 LA games, this will be the first time millions of people see Brisbane and their expectations will be high. No matter what stadium is built, there will certainly be an influx of tourists and talk about what Brisbane has to offer. We are in a unique situation because we can't afford fancy new stadiums, but can we afford dissapointing the world with average or dated venues? At this rate, Brisbane will only be seen as just a generic city with a forgettable olympics.
rebuild the gabba,it’s their only option,the other options are huge embarrassments to this beautiful city
Victoria Park stadium is the best option. All the surrounding infrastructure is there. The Gabba can be pulled down and turned into Greenspace. It would be used a lot more than the 12-13% stadium footprint at Vic Park.
This folly should never have been started. There are so many more important things need the money. The Bruce Hwy for one.
I prefer the Gabba or Victoria Park. Qsac is low-rent while Hamilton is very expensive.
"Shambles"? There's still more time than the TOTAL time Sydney had 1993-2000. Everything got started after NSW ALP got elected 1995 and the stadium was open for the "Double Header" in 1998. Honestly. Calm down everyone.
Your idea has merit. Hopefully it can be included in the options. Remains very close to the CBD and highly accessible. Any of the 4 options you discussed are better than the proposed Sth Brisbane option. Brisbane can’t host an Olympics where high schools host sports days, without public transport infrastructure and without any integrated or activated precincts. Brisbane can do better.
The pick of 'cemetery' and 'Namaste Astrology' 😅. This guys has some sense of hunour.
Don't build any stadiums. No more inflation. Australians have already lost 20% of their purchasing power post COVID according to RBA
I think feasibly speaking, the Victoria Park Olympic precinct is the best idea. Most of the public transport would be in place. However, saying that the Gabba redevelopment would blow out to over $2.7 billion to more like $3 billion, so would Victoria Park blow out. Instead of $3.3 billion it's probably more like nearly $4 billion. As much as a new Olympic Stadium at Hamilton sounds and looks like a great idea and it would be a fantastic venue, having to build the infrastructure to get there within 7.5 years is a big stretch. Plus, the government just blindly giving land away could be risky. Therefore, as much as Hamilton sounds like a fantastic lasting development, the Victoria Park development makes the most economic sense with a lasting legacy for Brisbane. Although, it needs to be minimum 80,000 to future proof. Failing that, just give it to Sydney because with less than 8 years to go there's no time to muck around trying to decide where to hold venues, and what to build. But if I were in government I'm with your Gabba 2.0 proposal. You need to forward this plan to government. It's the best idea, and probably the cheapest.
"the Gabba redevelopment would blow out to over $2.7 billion to more like $3 billion, so would Victoria Park blow out."
Not necessarily though. The Gabba redevelopment has some wild estimates due to the confined space in which to work in. There's no spill over area available. There's no onsite storage available -everything has to be shipped in. Think of all the logistics and temporary works needed to keep the adjacent streets open. Now add on costs such as shipping in massive stadium girders at the dead of night to avoid road closures.
Victoria Park is more of a greenfield site. Much more space, much less existing infrastructure that needs to be kept open. It's not a perfect site, and there will likely be cost blowouts. Just not as much as somewhere like the Gabba.
Bonus points for a topic you haven't thought about: Suncorp stadium. Miles government wants to upgrade Suncorp to accommodate the opening & closing ceremonies. How much extra cost blowout do you expect for this confined site?
@farmerooni they always blow out. Regardless of the development 9 times out of 10 costs are blowing out. Particularly with inflation. Costs estimated are never the actual cost.
@@adamjones1805 Yes, that's correct and no one's disputing this. The point is, a site like the Gabba is always going to be more prone to cost blowouts than somewhere like Victoria Park.
It's just the nature of the chosen location. More uncertainties (such as how will you divert traffic to form a construction site footprint) exist for a confined location.
The two options aren't the same.
The Gabba, for sure - it just makes sense.
Victoria Park is a great location, Northshore looks unbuildable in it's present form, but a in the round stadium could be built there. Gabba AFL and Cricket can pay for their own venue upgrade not one cent for them!
Need's be a minimum 70k stadium 🏟️ as we're in competition with Perth and Adelaide these days.. So we have to be ahead of them 😁
I don’t mind the Victoria park idea. The site is surrounded by busway stations, you could easily spread the crowd to qut Kelvin’s grove station and royal children’s hospital stations through new pedestrian paths. An expanded pathway through to the Roma street parkland for people who want to walk back (it’s not that far) and as you said the rna station is just a short walk away as well.
Building stadiums directly on top of stations doesn’t work from a passenger flow perspective. You need some distance for people to spread out and organise themselves as to where they’re going.
Plus you can add a new train station as part of the land bridge over the ICB. That gives Vic Park the best public transport solution of all the sites, and it's still walkable from the city.
I really think Vic Park offers the best legacy infrastructure. Not just stadium, but location. The land bridge shown in those concept plans links Gregory Tce Park to Victoria Park and forms one big mega-park. The park becomes more accessible by the public -a vital component that made Roma St Parklands and Southbank so successful.
And of course you've left with the most accessible stadium in Brisbane by public transport, without the associated traffic-jamb problems that blight the Gabba and Suncorp on heavy gamedays.
Agree with all of your comments except the depiction of Sunnybank and Mount Gravatt as being a cultural wasteland. It’s far more vibrant, has better food, cinemas and shopping and much better quality housing stock than inner city localities like Kangaroo point and West End
Um. Ok.
@@davidrossi1486 says the bloke that prob lives in a damp old queenslander or a share house next to junkies and transients. and has to cycle to work
A new stadium should be already underway. Cant believe this last minute bcrap.
Social housing where the Gabba is? No chance people will approve that. The place is undergoing a massive gentrification from 10 years ago. There are plenty more bougie high rises planned to be built in the coming years. Social housing there would deter residents and undo all the long term efforts of making the place a destination.
Putting $1 into QE2 is beyond ridiculous, barely any public transport there other than four buses. They’ve just built a massive underground rail that can easily Service a Gabba rebuild or the Victoria Park new stadium.
I love the Gabba but it’s gotta go and in 2030 it expires, I love the idea of rebuilding it across the road, but if they can’t completely rebuild it in that space, then for me I’m backing building one at Victoria Park. A new world-class stadium for world-class events (soccer, rugby, cricket, AFL, concerts and oh yeah The Olympics) with a brand-new rail system right underneath it.
Northshore would be amazing
Going back & not bidding on hosting the olympics, sounds like a sound plan- to not bankrupt the state.
New world class stadium at Victoria Park and knock down the gabba and build the new Brisbane live venue in it's place, surely would be better than trying to build it on top of a railway station.
You can't demolish the Gabba 1.0 before the Olympics now because ironically cricket is introduced into the olympics from 2028 onwards and we will need a cricket ground.
The Queens Wharf debarcle should be our lesson in not relying on the private sector to deliver our Olympics infrastructure. All it needs is one of the consortium to pull out mid contract and the government is forced to come to the rescue anyways for the benefit of the others in the consortium.
Best option is to move the games to Sydney.
An absolute embarrassment. An unmitigated disaster. Miles has truly fucked himself over by this.
3rd Option is the best - we need to just build the new stadium.
Where is the Olympic city
Why would we spend endless amounts on a single use venue?
Option 1: Hamilton is illegal. Hosting the Olympics requires that no venues be private - its in the contract. Option 2: Victoria Park is the best value for money, but the Gabba rebuilding also makes sense.
Once built they sell to the State Government?
@@paulfri1569 No that makes no sense. The developers are wanting the land for free to build the stadium on. That land is estimated to be around $1 billion in value. They also want the State Government to build public transport out to the stadium. That's also a very big cost.
Why would the State Government then turn around (after spending at least $1.5 billion) and buy a $3 billion stadium? At best they'd save money building it themselves. At worst, this is the most rortable rort of a sports-rort imaginable.
Today we taxpayers have to bail out the new Star casino. Tomorrow it will be the North Shore Hamilton development