After making the video in somewhat of a disillusioned mood I want to emphasize that none of the writers & artists involved with the scenes did bad work. I think that the scenes lack the spirit of the base game, but not because of a lack of artistic talent but due to the circumstances of their creation. I assume that questions regarding canon have become as difficult for them as they are for us. I also don’t know what restraints were given regarding story progression, foreshadowing etc, and I surely don’t blame anyone who has been made complicit in a project of damage control.
Do we know who made these scenes and by what parameters? I'd be interested to know if this was entirely made up post Kurvitz and co leaving or if it's based on their art/notes.
Is it any surprise that Capital ruins everything it touches? These are competent, talented artists, forced to make drivel by people who know nothing and understand less. Haven't watched the video yet btw :D
i would characterize this more as an expression of defeat, the death of a dream- a bright red star- being documented in real time by the survivors who still hold the vigil, even as that dream is slowly paved over by capital and its endless ability to subsume all critiques. this specific dream may be over, but the march goes onwards and the crimes here will never be forgotten, nor forgiven.
Updates aren't made in a day, these were probably in the works long before the ZA/UM fiasco. And I feel that situation has left a permanent sour taste in everyone's mouths and has treated the collage mode and its accompanying update features unfairly because they thought it was quick damage control (when it very clearly wasn't). Sorry man but in a hypothetical scenario where the za/um sitation never happened you'd be giddy in sharing these lore bits.
I think "flat" describes it well. In Elysium, everything has and *is* history. That's its depth. Things encompass what they were, and what they might become. That's what makes its politics (and critique) meaningful and not just surface-level aesthetics. These however are just snapshots.
That Joyce quote was circulating around a lot at the time, and it's almost like that's what the people working on this element were hyperfocusing on, to the point of treating cynicism in the face of capitalism to be what the game's world is about.
The last two are depressing in a way that Disco Elysium isn't. Revachol was in a depressing state, but it was ALIVE, squirming with characters. The final two scenes seem more like some dying Rust Belt locale while the game feels more like bustling Victorian Era slums.
It really is insane how much soul the disco devs put into the game. In contrast to the scenes, the 4 lines shivers said was enough to put me to tears. They just don't got it without the people they've fired.
They feel like what a school's history book would summarize events with. No time for perspective, for existence within, only vague explanations and gestures to the greater motions.
I wanna add that perspective is exactly what made DE an incredibly deep worldbuilding media. Good and bad is never absolute, and the personal experiences, feelings and thoughts of the people around you are the backbone of the story. History is in the background and in the hands of the characters, but it's never the reason why you're playing.@@glumbortango7182
There are 4 scenes, one for Fascism and old Revachol, another for the Commune, another for Claire's decidedly Ultraliberal cartel-sponsored business venture, and then the cold and "inevitable" triumph of the Moralintern. I think it's *meant* to convey emotionlessness and indifference to the fears and hopes and dreams of all the classes and political groups, as if it is only meant to record and not to pass judgement. There is no Ideology, only La Stabilitie and the economy, Capital in short. HOLY SHIT Kompus really is just a Moralist.
I wrote an essay about this game that highlighted the uncertainty of the future as one of the game’s greatest assets. The hope that fills the entire game despite everything is what makes me love it. I definitely agree that these scenes subtract from the game, not cause they’re bad, just cause they’re unnecessary
Well for starters they'd be far more impactful if they weren't hidden behind the awful meme that is collage mode, that immediately leaves a sour taste in my mouth, though it explains why they're so empty too.
So the suits didn't stop the release of the game mode that says "it's bad when a thing with a soul and potential turns into a corporate wasteland" after turning their own studio into one. It's either an absolute irony, or such blatant indifference towards their situation, given their circumstances and mistakes, that words elude me. If that is their damage control, that sure is an interesting tactic. Like an open cannibal going around eating people, but then saying "Eating people is bad, you know", to somehow cover his own crimes.
@@ENGRAINING It sure does, even though in this particular case the subsumed critique still looks like critique in the end, and sure as hell does not look like something, that will help the studio retrieve all the lost faith and fix damages to their public image.
@@Daskuria It's almost like, being destroyed in this way, it has become an even greater critique. It is now proof of what it was critiquing and has increased class consciousness
@@ffffffffffffffff5840 the material base for a revolution has eroded... until the GAMERS were radicalized against corrupt video game execs killing off yet another hard-working dev studio
I think more that the future scenes depicted are actually _possible_ futures. The game has a rather well-hidden plot point about how the course of history can be changed and redirected in both subtle and obvious ways.
That's my thought too. This is the Revachol that could be, with the difference being the influence of one Harrier DuBois. We don't see that other Revachol, because that would be the whole point of the game. Or, in this timeline without additional games, because there is no game to see it in. Regardless, we can keep the dream of a changed Revachol alive in our own speculations.
That would have been a much better set of lore pictures. Four different futures that obviously contradict each other, subtly hinting at complex futures resulting from the decisions you make in the game. It would have been great if it was ambiguous which in game decisions resulted in which future. Though, I don't think that's what we got.
hell we even have Sacred and Terrible Air but i think no one actually *wants* to believe that Revachol must be nuked in 3 years regardless of what one does
Bro this makes me want to cry just from the title. Ive kept this close to my chest for over a year now but Ive been working with the narrator of Disco Elysium on my first novel. Its a fantasy series I have been world building since 2012. Essentially without disco I would of never known of him. Disco forever will remain the greatest written video game i've experienced as an adult, and I will add Elden Ring impacted me as well. The world building of Disco is so amazing, I wanted more, so much more. I hope Robert keeps going.
What me and Lenval have discussed regarding what he knew of Disco Elysium 2 was crazy to me. He told me they had a big dinner after the success of the first game with all the OG developers and that essentially at that time they planned on proceeding to make the second one. This is what Lenval knew of Disco 2 that we discussed. The original game he narrated 350k words, for disco 2 they where going to have him narrate 1 million words! After that dinner he never heard back from them. Though I will add for my own sake had disco 2 happened I would of never gotten the opportunity to work with Lenval. @JamrockHobo
@@silentobserver888 Thank you for sharing! I wish you and Lenval the best for your project. And I hope that he gets to narrate DE2 (or sth similar) after that!
@@JamrockHobo i hope disco 2 happens, but with the original writers! It was a magical experience. Thank you! It's been a journey! Also Lenval is amazing! If you want to hear the first chapter of my book with his narration I would be glad to share!
Someone posted these scenes on TH-cam almost a year ago and I left a comment suggesting that whoever wrote them felt like they were mimicking the Disco Elysium writing style without really grasping the nuance and subtlety of what they were imitating. I still feel like the writing is off, but in retrospect, I regret that comment; there's a real possibility whoever wrote it was capable of better, but was simply demoralized into indifference by the state of the company at that time or had to submit their writing to clueless superiors who were the real ones responsible for what was now allowed in the game. Basically, Argo Tuulik's line about the 'fish rotting from the head' made me feel like I don't want to crap all over the writers at ZA/UM post-Kurvitz when they may be quite talented, but simply falling victim to a lousy work environment.
I think so too and have written about it in the pinned comment. I'm sure there are still talented artists at ZA/UM who do the best they can. When someone posted the scenes on Reddit they said the same too: That it feels alright, but still like an imitation.
At the time this was written a lot of the writers for The Final Cut were still there - I think that these were probably just somewhat-refined concept art with little taglines
Even without the context behind when these were created, it all feels...I dunno, basic. Like a first draft that is supposed to give a visual and text guideline to further writing. Like, I like the idea of seeing the fishing village before the Commune, or the statue of Frissel being replaced with a literal cardboard cutout in a gentrified Martinaise. But there's just no follow-up to those hooks.
@JamrockHobo I saw that still image and thought Harry was actually gonna form a fascist mob. I was disappointed. But it makes more sense ludonarratively. (Cope)
The timing of the TH-cam ad popping up straight after you said, "Evrart's plan to keep foreign capital from occupying the city did not seem to have worked."
I don't hate these new scenes exactly, especially not the first two, which just restate the general history, but I feel you've hit the nail regarding the latter two. Revachol's story, if this is canon, ends sadly and predictably. Everything in the game pointed to The Return as being the Event that would remake or destroy the world. A future where it doesn't even register as important enough to comment on is frankly a-canonical in my mind, it's missed the point of the game and world's storytelling, because the promise that a Future exists is the entire premise of Harry's character arc, of the case, of the city itself. Even a failed Return would be better than none. To deny it any place at all is to deny the foundations of Elysium as a setting.
Interesting, as Argo Tuulik did in fact just qrt this stating that it's "100% not canon". So at least there's that. He also adds: "Although might've inadvertently inspired *a* canon, a Collasium-like if you will -- Willy Wonka and the Unknown, no? Genre-breaking nonetheless. Heart too."
getting retweeted by Argo Tuulik might have been the most exciting moment of my life, haha. bless that man. And yeah, having the collage mode scenes spawn into the future in some creepy way (like the AI generated Unknown of the Wonka fiasco) definitely is on the table now
It feels like someone colouring between the lines of work that never called for it. 'Kitsch' is a great descriptor. I do like the red metal horse replacing the old statue, though.
yeah it feels like they took some unused art boards that were pretty decent (or had them created by someone trying their best when morale was low post-firings), but then wrote really soulless exposition over them. first 3 are mediocre and the 4th/future one is just bad except for the detail of that "enshittified" horse sculpture. it's like something they made "just for fun" but then the execs found it lying around and desperately made it canon.
@@bloodonthesnow I think the whole future scene does a good job showing enshitification, though without exploration of that it just kinda makes a hopeful happy ending to an otherwise melancholy game feel sad and depressing.
@@shraka enshittification as used online is highly specific to what are essentially platform services and how that balance of power between them and buyers and sellers eventually degenerates (in the mathematical meaning of the term not a measurehead meaning) into Shit. capitalism making everything worse is probably better described in other specific (or in some cases, broader) terms
I always felt that way and it has only grown stronger since I've heard that it's a canon end to the world. The rich are fleeing in the helicopters and containers but they will fall to the explosion nevertheless. And it's beatiful. In a weird, nihilistic way, the explosion gives off the fresh and final look to the city while being hypnotizing on it's own. So every time I've seen the main menu during my last playthrough, I couldn't turn away from this beauty and terrible thought. And all of it lies simply before your eyes before you even start the game
@@coolsceegaming6178 It is canon per the book Something Dark and Terrible or what is it called, since the first nuke that drops is on Revachol as per the mandate of the new inocence that brings Nihilism as a gift to the world in an atempt to expand the Pale.
Man, the Disco Elysium community is so beautiful. Never before have I seen a community so critical in just the right ways-- so spiritually expressive and diverse. Never before have I seen a community so full of visionaries with, in the words of my friend Inland Empire, vast, oceanic souls. Disco Elysium *can't* die when so many people hold it so dearly in their hearts and actually understand what it stands for.
This is just a result of the game being exactly like it players - nurturing critical thinking and giving the freedom to find out the real meaning behind "what kind of cop are you?" game's selling slogan. Its beautiful (AND HARDCORE!)
I feel like these could work if they were visualization/conceptualization/encyclopedia/Inland Empire flashbacks, and were a bit more detailed. Also, the writing is too hamfisted.
I feel some sort of catharsis by looking at these pictures. I mean, all of the things that were shown seem unnatural for Disco Elysium: the text, the art, this clearness of future which completely cancels some of your choices. But doesn't it really fit on the meta-level? Especially the last two pictures. It gives us something that exactly depicts what happened with ZA/UM and the work they've done. And it also really accurately transmits the emotions we have to feel by seeing such "before/after" view - even the text lost part of it's soul, as Martinaise itself. So, when I see this, I feel the same feeling about the fictional world of Elysium, the development of the game and, of course, the similiar things in the real world, including the city where I live. And it worths a lot.
Not everything ends. Sometimes they sleep a dreamless slumber only to awaken to the world that has moved on. And then, without warning they return. Changed in countless permutations but with the same brilliant soul they had when they first left our world. Don't believe me? Ask David Lynch. Perhaps we'll see a return to this world in 25 years. Even if we don't, it's influence will live on and spark new creativity for the rest of eternity. Revachol Forever. Rec
i saw the one that represents ‘71 first and thought it actually did capture the kind of hollow “there was beauty here once, now all that’s left is emulation” of the corporate era quite well. after having seen the rest it’s clear that this is just the vibe of all four pieces. as you said, no real artistic intent, just a history textbook photograph an “objective” view of things that happened
The irony of these scenes has to be intentional by the creatives, right? Think about just how blatant it is, showing scorched earth, proclaimed victory, then building a sanitised version of something that used to be familiar to us. These were released alongside a photo mode largely slated for being too corporate, and any executive with a surface-level understanding of DE would say "Yeah, the art is visually consistent so must be good art. It references the world Kurvitz wrote, so it must be good writing. It's dystopian and corporate, so fits the game's theme. Go for it" But look at the detail in the 4th scene. The picture itself is on-the-nose, but the details to support it are *very* specific, some of which are only off-hand references in the games or the books. Whoever made this scene has the deep understanding of interesting details, but used them for an obvious and uninteresting display of a corporate takeover. It actually took a lot of creative talent in art and writing to make scenes this uncreative. Don't those two contradict each other? If it's about the world of Elysium, sure. But not if these pictures are a representation of ZA/UM through the eyes of the artists. Presenting them in a bold highlighter with no nuance almost seems like a way to bait management into grabbing the shiny thing, so they can criticise ZA/UM from where they can. It feels too ironic for that not to be the case, unless every artist still there is oblivious. Management certainly is, but its a tough sell to say every creative is too. As a side note, the visuals/understanding of niche details (even when conveyed poorly) in these scenes highlight that Elysium is now bigger than Kurvitz/Rostov. Even if Kurvitz/Rostov win every legal proceeding and take back ZA/UM and the IP, that new ZA/UM would still have missing pieces from the creative talent beyond the famous names that made the first game. These art pieces are corporate and direly miss the humanity/subtlety that Kurvitz would bring to the table. But if Kurvitz does any new project, the narrative will be good but what other half of DE's soul will *he* have lost?
Your quotes accompanying the firing squad sticker are exquisite 😂 I would have loved a sequel but there’s something utterly perfect about the way capital has completely dismantled that possibility - and then sought to try and shoehorn in a very one-dimensional loredrop on to the original, extremely ambiguous game. It just makes the themes of the original resonate so much more.
Small note on the pronunciation of "Dagens": while I haven't read the book and can't speak to how it is portrayed there, the word is not French but the Swedish word for "Today's". Several current Swedish newspapers have it as part of their titles. The authors being Estonian, I would say a Swedish language connection is very likely intentional. The Swedish pronunciation would be something like "daa-gens" with emphasis on the first syllable and a hard g. With Estonia having spent a long time as a Swedish colonial/imperial possession that would fit with the general theme of foreign imperialism.
I agree with your critique, but it's somehow fitting that Disco Elysium, a multilayered labor of love, meets its end in so flat a manner. Beauty dies in anticlimax; if it didn't, then it would be no death but a transformation. Revachol was a beautiful, hopeless place. ZA/UM was a beautiful, hopeless company.
Living in a post-Soviet country, I can relate to some of these scenes. I even believe they were based on the original authors' unfinished materials. After the collapse of the USSR, an unrestrained wild capitalism flooded its former territory. At some point, malls and other businesses began to grow everywhere, burying the history and integrity of the urban landscape under concrete and ads. The corrupt government didn't care about the demolition of a park or a historical building. Sometimes, to justify themselves, they simply stuck an ugly youth center in a random place and called it a day. Many places that once felt like they belonged to the people and were filled with little things with their own history are now just plain. So, I believe this is what the author intended for Revachol.
@@hydroxide5507 Being from a post-soviet country myself I can only agree that I felt the same way as the original comment - and although it's terrible, it's a part of *our* history. Call me masochist, but I prefer an almost unpolished destroyed view that contains all of historical events we went through in the last century to a soulless cleaned shopping mall which hides everything our ancestors fought and died for, regardless of their side. Of course, I would prefer if the history would be preserved and valued, if we would only see destroyed buildings in museums or as monuments left in their original state only as a reminder. But it's not what happened
And the Frittte building reminds me of a beatiful nursing house in my hometown, which was built around 1830s. Legend says, it's basement was used for shootings by KGB and in may be just a legend, but it shows the importance of the building to people. Somewhere in 2000s local convenience store chain invested into renovating the building to make a new store out of it and now it bears their ugly logo right in the center of the facade. Literally everyone I know thinks that's disrespectful and distasteful, but that's what the rich people did when the government couldn't preserve the history on it's own. (Google "проспект красноармейский 4 барнаул" to see it for yourself)
Right in the front of it stands a monument to the industry of the region, built in 1825, when the town turned 100 years old. It's made of 12 granite blocks which just stand tightly on top of each other. After the revolution, (you can't make this shit up, I swear) the communists tried to take it apart to make their own monument but couldn't move the blocks AT ALL.
@@hydroxide5507 I am not a communist fan. Moreover, it was exactly because of 80 years of planned economy that my country had no mechanisms of protection against oligarchs and other bad actors.
Somehow, Martanaise losing all it's soul is even sadder than it being nuked into oblivion and the pale subsuming the world. The first death is in the heart. I will say, I don't completely hate the scenes. The dragoons are mildly interesting, and there's something about Idiot Doom Spiral staying that resonates with me. To me it feels like the new people in charge found some old bits of concept art, maybe even stuff that had been essentially discarded and not intended for the final canon, and decided to recreate them and come up with lore blurbs for them on their own.
I assume the "wedding" being talked about in the final collage is the wedding of labor and capital vis a vis the Débardeurs' Union, which seems to indicate that Le Retour was successful, just not what anyone had hoped for. Evrart did say he was going to "Incorporate this place to kingdom come" and that he had a "...bold new vision of incorporated socialism...".
part of me wonders that at least in broad strokes some of these frames were floating in the air for DE2's (and beyond) ideas and if people would react so negatively to such a non-heroic ending
if i were to be a dev making such collage unlockable images, i wouldve made 4 images for one location. the middle of the city like the last image, showing potential different futures of martinaise. befitting the 4 ideologies you can lean towards in game, denoted by the statue being changed each time. hopeful futures, barren futures.
Part of me wants to like these more, granted it could just be cope because any new details about elysium I’m going to eat whole, but I also think even with Robert and the other true creators gone, these could have been scenes that they had had built and that the studio just poached after the fact. I think it isn’t out of the question that the return just, didn’t pan out. Historically speaking not every just cause won out, not every story ends with triumph. Often history trudges on with melancholy and dismay leaching to it. But then I just can’t help but think about that in a way being the message of the original, that against the forces of entropy, hopelessness and capital miracles can still happen; Kim nailing the shot against the mercenary, the impossible domino tower holding its shape against the limits of impossibility, the insulindian phasmid. Miracles can happen, and having the end result of that message be “Clair kicked out Lilienne, her kids and the washer woman to execute an obviously stupid plan and it didn’t work anyways.” As much as I would like these to be more impactful, I refuse to let the soul of this world and it’s message end with this.
I won't pretend to have a deep knowledge about the lore and the 'what has and should be happeneing', but this feels like it uts the dump into the lore dump. It does not jump the gap between feeling tacked on (because it literally is tacked on afterall) and feeling like it belongs.
Revachol like Harry at the start died it's what was born from their rot that will be the exciting second wind for their world, it's people, their stores
@@falco5824evrart appears Like your Run of the mill Gangster but there are hints that He actually has beliefs after all B your First instinct Is to think that whatever construction Project you helped Is Just so He could get richer
@@falco5824 while Evrart is caring (kind of) to his citizens the game definitely tries very hard to make it ambiguous if he would actually build that complex he was promising and showing that he DID actually build it ruins the whole idea Evrart is kind of meant to be a really corrupt buisnessman who also does actually care about Martinaise. The complex in a way is the absolutely perfect showcase of him as a character because either Joyce,the woman who herself has alot of experience working with the Claire brothers and knows them more than others (but also could be really biased and politically driven) is right about what will happen or Evrart the guy who lies alot and likes to be very sneaky about what he says but also straight up rants to you ecstatically about the complex idea and is really hyped and confident in it is right about what will happen You see what I mean? It is 100% shown that it is not meant to be fully known so missing the point so much that you show construction even happened and worse, show he actually was telling the truth about it is stupid. Sorry for such a in depth response but ay you are on a Disco Elysium video and I hope you liked reading it!
@@straferthesluggo3096 thanks yeah that's really interesting. I liked how hard to parse Evrart was on his morals and hadn't really connected that to the complex.
not to mention the fact that there are choices the player can make that can potentially stop or delay the construction from taking place. cementing that future just makes the importance of the player's decision completely pointless
These would work much better if they had some kind of narrative framing, like being snapshots/captions culled from an in-universe history book. The artists and writers didn't do a bad job within the parameters they were given, but the zoomed out omniscient perspective feels so wrong for this game.
I finished the game yesterday and I got through the scene where you get to talk with the "Spirit of Revachol". Remembering the vividness of that scene I experienced all but a few hours ago and then seeing this adds a hint of bile to the already sour taste in my mouth. EDIT: It's as if reality shattered the lens of fiction and the mosaic created by it's shards revealed an otherworldly nightmare. Like, the entity inside of the video game knew what was going to happen to her, she asked Harry for help but, as the 'gamer' we get to see her last throes and we know what actually caused it. Innocent Revachol thought what 'did her in' was the whims of the universe she belonged to, blissfully unaware of the machinations happening in the realm her creators existed it.
The Claire Center one is a kind of weird and depressing choice. Especially since you can 100% prevent it from being built a few different ways in the game.
I like how boring and realistically depressing this ending is. It’s like the end of the game itself irl. The game was destroyed by capitalism with no hope. No dreams. Just a boring end
“SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL IS GOING TO HAPPEN” Hold onto hope that something beautiful WILL happen. The fanbase around Disco Elysium will survive beyond ZA/UMs demise.
At the very least, Disco Elysium's existence has been an inspiration for writers and game devs for their own creations. It will always be a beacon for what games, poetry, and art, can be.
Not to be overly dramatic and 100% Actual Art Degree. We already know what I'm about to say. Shit's not canon. It is a façade, like you conclude. The crime of having the blessed narrator, with his voice perfect for delivering the lines of Disco Elysium, deliver these undeserving words with none of the punch. No gravitas. Nothing out of the ordinary, unsettling, chilling, surprising, insightful, satirical. "But they ignite much more than the flames in the people targeted tonight" "It seems okay to let yourself be just a 'little' happy" "The bitter taste of salt and silica hangs severely in the air" "Pay for your bag and don't forget your receipt" Grade school book report stuff. Safe, always at the end, controlled, restrained, with the fear of reprimand. There isn't much new to comment. It's just enraging and ultimately sad. I can only hope we get to hear more from the OG gang soon.
Disco Elysium was a game which helped me say no to alcohol, it changed my life, for the better. Now if that isn"t an endorsement then I do not know what is. No matter the aftermath, I do hope we shall see another... OG ZA/UM team creation sooner rather than later... If not, well... thanks for everything.
I feel like I don't truly understand anything going on when I watch your discussions on this game. My theory for this is that these lore scenes represent for the game what happens in the world, that all this twisted stuff with ZAUM and the loss of the devs and these final scenes mirror the world of Elysium itself. A death of its art and its novelty, what is happening to disco elysium is metaphor to the game itself somehow, like ZAUM is the pale eating the world in our world as well. I don't know, it's just odd to me how this happens Elysium is too complex for me to understand but this feels like what happens to it, like it always was going to happen to it. There will be no more Elysium just like how the Pale and with ZAUM.
I take the last picture to be a meta-commentary on the company itself rather than "official lore". The state of Martinase and the state of ZA/UM seem like a deliberate parallel.
Kind of just feels like a middle finger, not sure to who exactly, but all that hope and struggle of both the characters and the player--all to say nope, everything you attempted to do fails and the corporations take over and the place gets nuked, the end.
Honestly, as much as I agree that these works lack the depth and soul of Elysium's original art, there is something about that last scene that makes me extremely sad. Somehow, the flatter, more corporate art look hammers home how much of Martinaise's spirit is sucked from it by foreign capital. It died long before the nuke is dropped, and the pale subsumes it.
All I can say right now is "thanks fot giving updates on news and other stuff about Disco Elysium". I really hope that things will change in a good way. As for collage mode , I don't want to accept it as a canon, because it has some AI vibes in it. I don't say it is created like this , but has some fake Elysium style.
This just leaves a profound sadness for some reason. It's like hearing that your old friend did indeed fall off, is now destitute and no longer is able to recognize you. You can't bear watching how someone so brilliant and full of fire is now barely a bit more than a featureless poster, only oozing defeat from every pore.
having looked around at others views. i think the Red horse replacing the statue of king philip is might be the closest these extra's get to being poighient. that single post card would be amazing. if it was a memory boucing around in the pale from the future. the ghost of what will happen if revishol dies. The shadow of capital on the future, if "The Return" fails to manifest. Revishol if the first to be obliterated at the end of the world after all, revishol dies at the hands of capital and capital, dies to the nihalism it created, flat prop, in the shape of a horse.
I think it's fitting, even if it's not *as* subtle or nuanced as the writing of the base game. I felt like the game was veering in a fatalistic direction anyway, so the stagnation and then eventual abandonment of martinaise is accurate, even if it's not exactly deep. It's like a half step towards the destruction laid out in the book.
Part of me somehow wonders even though it's messed up that maybe this was planned. Like what ZAUM is doing to the game illustrates the creator's original point of art, communism and capital perfectly. Like it seems entirely perfect of a message that the game tells and the publishers are making happen with the game itself.
the title screen art is in all likelihood a sunset, not a sunrise. in my personal interpretation at least, it doesn’t communicate hope for the future. at best it communicates joy in death. the case that it’s a sign of optimism for revachol could’ve been made stronger before Sacred and Terrible Air, I think, but knowing what we know it’s hard to see the light in the background as anything but the “Tequila Sunset” at best, or foreshadowing of nuclear annihilation at absolute worst.
Disco Elysium told us precisely what is needed to create it's compelling story. To add on to the narrative in such an inelegant way only tarnishes the original. Since the scenes are so separate from Disco Elysium proper, I simply put them out of my mind and consider them not canon.
honestly the collage scenes felt alot like concept art that never left the cutting room floor. like they needed something else to justify calling "the final cut" and they said "fuck it let em play with dolls or something. show them all the shit these dumbass fans want like what The Revolution or whatever happens to the fishing village".
honestly the lore drop works better if i just imagine that the sections about the future of revachol are a metanarrative about the state of za/um at the time collage mode was released
I really hate them showing the future of Martanaise at all. I feel like one of the core themes of the game was hope, the small glimer that, even if the chances are near zero, even if revolution is seen as impossible, even if the pale will swallow everything eventually, there's still hope. Just a small, small chance that maybe, after enough time, even for just a short while, Revachole will be free.
I didn't interpret the final dialogue in D41 to be recruitment for a revolution, I just thought that they were talking about recent crimes and then deciding who'll stay on the payroll.
People seem to really think the concept of canon is black and white but it's really not. This is in a very gray area to me. And when it's gray, I think you just choose for yourself which things you think of as canon.
Did the postcards 2 weeks ago after another play through, and I remember clearly thinking the writing was…. Off? So much chaos around ZA/UM though, so I can’t blame the devs at all
Death of the Writer The construction was the weirdest to me You are building a school in a swamp? I am not a construction worker and I know that will sink in the water. The makeshift dock is still there So too are the boats and bridge This would not be allowed in or near a construction yard
Seems fitting to me. This is a game about the absurd futility of hope. As long as they've achieved la price stabilité, that is the most important thing.😛
Although the narrator lacks nuance, i don't think its terrible, and I don't think that we have lost everything. Its possible the revolution happens late. It definitely deserves critique, however It's possible to remain positive about the writing. Can't wait for the lore videos!
In response to the final question of the video... I cannot create a neutral response because the context has completely soured me to anything the studio might want to add at this point. It would need to be beyond exceptional to escape that, and it just... isn't. It actually feels insulting. It feels like someone took a few notes and tried to fill in some gaps with an extremely limited understanding of what the source material was. It's the kind of corporate criticism you get in media produced by corporations... even the line about paying for things, felt like an insult, almost suggesting the source material was so puerile and and ideology so incoherent that paying for things is sad, and shops are corperate and make people angry. This maybe completely unfair, but fuck it. The studio, or more appropriately, its owners, deserve every unfair thing they get at this point.
After making the video in somewhat of a disillusioned mood I want to emphasize that none of the writers & artists involved with the scenes did bad work. I think that the scenes lack the spirit of the base game, but not because of a lack of artistic talent but due to the circumstances of their creation. I assume that questions regarding canon have become as difficult for them as they are for us. I also don’t know what restraints were given regarding story progression, foreshadowing etc, and I surely don’t blame anyone who has been made complicit in a project of damage control.
Do we know who made these scenes and by what parameters? I'd be interested to know if this was entirely made up post Kurvitz and co leaving or if it's based on their art/notes.
Is it any surprise that Capital ruins everything it touches? These are competent, talented artists, forced to make drivel by people who know nothing and understand less. Haven't watched the video yet btw :D
i would characterize this more as an expression of defeat, the death of a dream- a bright red star- being documented in real time by the survivors who still hold the vigil, even as that dream is slowly paved over by capital and its endless ability to subsume all critiques. this specific dream may be over, but the march goes onwards and the crimes here will never be forgotten, nor forgiven.
Are there any high resolution uploads of the art of the scenes? I actually think the style of them fits the game well even if the writing doesn't
Updates aren't made in a day, these were probably in the works long before the ZA/UM fiasco. And I feel that situation has left a permanent sour taste in everyone's mouths and has treated the collage mode and its accompanying update features unfairly because they thought it was quick damage control (when it very clearly wasn't). Sorry man but in a hypothetical scenario where the za/um sitation never happened you'd be giddy in sharing these lore bits.
The scenes to me seemed like a flat, safe mimicry of critique, one that can be sold to shareholders without offending them.
Capital truly subsumes all.
Well, it nailed the bleakness and quick degradation aspect of corporate interference into art.
That, on a meta-level, is the nicest thing I can say.
Insert Joyce quote
I think "flat" describes it well. In Elysium, everything has and *is* history. That's its depth. Things encompass what they were, and what they might become. That's what makes its politics (and critique) meaningful and not just surface-level aesthetics. These however are just snapshots.
That Joyce quote was circulating around a lot at the time, and it's almost like that's what the people working on this element were hyperfocusing on, to the point of treating cynicism in the face of capitalism to be what the game's world is about.
The last two are depressing in a way that Disco Elysium isn't. Revachol was in a depressing state, but it was ALIVE, squirming with characters. The final two scenes seem more like some dying Rust Belt locale while the game feels more like bustling Victorian Era slums.
-1 Hand/Eye Coordination: Hands shake from anger how shit it all is
- 1 Perception (sight): can't even look at this shit
-1 logic: your brain rejects the high dosage of shit and shuts down.
PALE SWALLOWS ALL
"After the world, the pale -- after the pale, the world again."
It really is insane how much soul the disco devs put into the game. In contrast to the scenes, the 4 lines shivers said was enough to put me to tears. They just don't got it without the people they've fired.
Disco created its world from a million smaller pieces. These collages suffer from their scale
This is an intelligent comment.
They feel like what a school's history book would summarize events with. No time for perspective, for existence within, only vague explanations and gestures to the greater motions.
I wanna add that perspective is exactly what made DE an incredibly deep worldbuilding media. Good and bad is never absolute, and the personal experiences, feelings and thoughts of the people around you are the backbone of the story. History is in the background and in the hands of the characters, but it's never the reason why you're playing.@@glumbortango7182
There are 4 scenes, one for Fascism and old Revachol, another for the Commune, another for Claire's decidedly Ultraliberal cartel-sponsored business venture, and then the cold and "inevitable" triumph of the Moralintern. I think it's *meant* to convey emotionlessness and indifference to the fears and hopes and dreams of all the classes and political groups, as if it is only meant to record and not to pass judgement. There is no Ideology, only La Stabilitie and the economy, Capital in short.
HOLY SHIT Kompus really is just a Moralist.
I wrote an essay about this game that highlighted the uncertainty of the future as one of the game’s greatest assets. The hope that fills the entire game despite everything is what makes me love it. I definitely agree that these scenes subtract from the game, not cause they’re bad, just cause they’re unnecessary
Well for starters they'd be far more impactful if they weren't hidden behind the awful meme that is collage mode, that immediately leaves a sour taste in my mouth, though it explains why they're so empty too.
So the suits didn't stop the release of the game mode that says "it's bad when a thing with a soul and potential turns into a corporate wasteland" after turning their own studio into one. It's either an absolute irony, or such blatant indifference towards their situation, given their circumstances and mistakes, that words elude me.
If that is their damage control, that sure is an interesting tactic. Like an open cannibal going around eating people, but then saying "Eating people is bad, you know", to somehow cover his own crimes.
capital subsumes all critiques unto itself etc
etc.
@@ENGRAINING It sure does, even though in this particular case the subsumed critique still looks like critique in the end, and sure as hell does not look like something, that will help the studio retrieve all the lost faith and fix damages to their public image.
@@Daskuria eating and absorbing everything does not guarantee sustainable subsistence, especially when the core of it is to eat and absorb everything.
@@Daskuria It's almost like, being destroyed in this way, it has become an even greater critique. It is now proof of what it was critiquing and has increased class consciousness
@@ffffffffffffffff5840 the material base for a revolution has eroded... until the GAMERS were radicalized against corrupt video game execs killing off yet another hard-working dev studio
I think more that the future scenes depicted are actually _possible_ futures.
The game has a rather well-hidden plot point about how the course of history can be changed and redirected in both subtle and obvious ways.
That's my thought too. This is the Revachol that could be, with the difference being the influence of one Harrier DuBois. We don't see that other Revachol, because that would be the whole point of the game. Or, in this timeline without additional games, because there is no game to see it in. Regardless, we can keep the dream of a changed Revachol alive in our own speculations.
So this more of a neutral ending
Where the book presented the Bad ending
That would have been a much better set of lore pictures. Four different futures that obviously contradict each other, subtly hinting at complex futures resulting from the decisions you make in the game. It would have been great if it was ambiguous which in game decisions resulted in which future. Though, I don't think that's what we got.
@@EmperorSeth you seem to have misspelled Detective Raphaël Ambrosius Costeau
hell we even have Sacred and Terrible Air but i think no one actually *wants* to believe that Revachol must be nuked in 3 years regardless of what one does
Bro this makes me want to cry just from the title. Ive kept this close to my chest for over a year now but Ive been working with the narrator of Disco Elysium on my first novel. Its a fantasy series I have been world building since 2012. Essentially without disco I would of never known of him. Disco forever will remain the greatest written video game i've experienced as an adult, and I will add Elden Ring impacted me as well. The world building of Disco is so amazing, I wanted more, so much more. I hope Robert keeps going.
What me and Lenval have discussed regarding what he knew of Disco Elysium 2 was crazy to me. He told me they had a big dinner after the success of the first game with all the OG developers and that essentially at that time they planned on proceeding to make the second one.
This is what Lenval knew of Disco 2 that we discussed. The original game he narrated 350k words, for disco 2 they where going to have him narrate 1 million words! After that dinner he never heard back from them.
Though I will add for my own sake had disco 2 happened I would of never gotten the opportunity to work with Lenval. @JamrockHobo
@@silentobserver888 Thank you for sharing! I wish you and Lenval the best for your project. And I hope that he gets to narrate DE2 (or sth similar) after that!
@@JamrockHobo i hope disco 2 happens, but with the original writers! It was a magical experience. Thank you! It's been a journey! Also Lenval is amazing! If you want to hear the first chapter of my book with his narration I would be glad to share!
Where can we see your work ?
@@silentobserver888
yes yes yes yesb@@silentobserver888
Someone posted these scenes on TH-cam almost a year ago and I left a comment suggesting that whoever wrote them felt like they were mimicking the Disco Elysium writing style without really grasping the nuance and subtlety of what they were imitating.
I still feel like the writing is off, but in retrospect, I regret that comment; there's a real possibility whoever wrote it was capable of better, but was simply demoralized into indifference by the state of the company at that time or had to submit their writing to clueless superiors who were the real ones responsible for what was now allowed in the game.
Basically, Argo Tuulik's line about the 'fish rotting from the head' made me feel like I don't want to crap all over the writers at ZA/UM post-Kurvitz when they may be quite talented, but simply falling victim to a lousy work environment.
I think so too and have written about it in the pinned comment. I'm sure there are still talented artists at ZA/UM who do the best they can.
When someone posted the scenes on Reddit they said the same too: That it feels alright, but still like an imitation.
At the time this was written a lot of the writers for The Final Cut were still there - I think that these were probably just somewhat-refined concept art with little taglines
It feels like a first draft maybe. Outlining the general concept of what you're going to write.
The lore dump in this collage has some strong "Dumbledore was gay" energy.
That's crisp. Made me chuckle.
You are giving some strong "I am gay" energy.
I give myself "I am gay" energy
Amateurs...
/j
@@Noahthelasercop
Can you call me having "gay energy" please 🥺 👉👈
Bless the ZA/UM devs that managed to put this in the expansion before being body snatched by corperate
Even without the context behind when these were created, it all feels...I dunno, basic. Like a first draft that is supposed to give a visual and text guideline to further writing. Like, I like the idea of seeing the fishing village before the Commune, or the statue of Frissel being replaced with a literal cardboard cutout in a gentrified Martinaise. But there's just no follow-up to those hooks.
Horse back flamethrowers are the only thing I like about this. They are wacky
if you do the "traditionalist" route you can joke about them with René
@@JamrockHobo ah in that case there is nothing about this that I like since the only interesting thing already was a thing before
@JamrockHobo I saw that still image and thought Harry was actually gonna form a fascist mob. I was disappointed. But it makes more sense ludonarratively. (Cope)
The timing of the TH-cam ad popping up straight after you said, "Evrart's plan to keep foreign capital from occupying the city did not seem to have worked."
I don't hate these new scenes exactly, especially not the first two, which just restate the general history, but I feel you've hit the nail regarding the latter two. Revachol's story, if this is canon, ends sadly and predictably. Everything in the game pointed to The Return as being the Event that would remake or destroy the world. A future where it doesn't even register as important enough to comment on is frankly a-canonical in my mind, it's missed the point of the game and world's storytelling, because the promise that a Future exists is the entire premise of Harry's character arc, of the case, of the city itself. Even a failed Return would be better than none. To deny it any place at all is to deny the foundations of Elysium as a setting.
Interesting, as Argo Tuulik did in fact just qrt this stating that it's "100% not canon". So at least there's that. He also adds: "Although might've inadvertently inspired *a* canon, a Collasium-like if you will -- Willy Wonka and the Unknown, no?
Genre-breaking nonetheless. Heart too."
getting retweeted by Argo Tuulik might have been the most exciting moment of my life, haha. bless that man. And yeah, having the collage mode scenes spawn into the future in some creepy way (like the AI generated Unknown of the Wonka fiasco) definitely is on the table now
I think Harry should become a willy wonka character. That will fix everything
Oh thank god
It feels like someone colouring between the lines of work that never called for it. 'Kitsch' is a great descriptor. I do like the red metal horse replacing the old statue, though.
yeah it feels like they took some unused art boards that were pretty decent (or had them created by someone trying their best when morale was low post-firings), but then wrote really soulless exposition over them. first 3 are mediocre and the 4th/future one is just bad except for the detail of that "enshittified" horse sculpture. it's like something they made "just for fun" but then the execs found it lying around and desperately made it canon.
@@bloodonthesnow I think the whole future scene does a good job showing enshitification, though without exploration of that it just kinda makes a hopeful happy ending to an otherwise melancholy game feel sad and depressing.
@@shraka enshittification as used online is highly specific to what are essentially platform services and how that balance of power between them and buyers and sellers eventually degenerates (in the mathematical meaning of the term not a measurehead meaning) into Shit. capitalism making everything worse is probably better described in other specific (or in some cases, broader) terms
The bright flash behind the city in menu screen is an explosion of the nuke that will end Revachol.
when i first completed the game i thought the explosion represented the upcoming conflict between the workers and the corporationa
@@ArkadyTunguskaI thought it was meant to be from the desserter’s POV, with the weird stuff being his vision fucked up by the insect.
@@coolsceegaming6178yeah I always thought so too. The view is definitely from the island, so it'd make sense
I always felt that way and it has only grown stronger since I've heard that it's a canon end to the world. The rich are fleeing in the helicopters and containers but they will fall to the explosion nevertheless. And it's beatiful. In a weird, nihilistic way, the explosion gives off the fresh and final look to the city while being hypnotizing on it's own. So every time I've seen the main menu during my last playthrough, I couldn't turn away from this beauty and terrible thought. And all of it lies simply before your eyes before you even start the game
@@coolsceegaming6178 It is canon per the book Something Dark and Terrible or what is it called, since the first nuke that drops is on Revachol as per the mandate of the new inocence that brings Nihilism as a gift to the world in an atempt to expand the Pale.
Man, the Disco Elysium community is so beautiful. Never before have I seen a community so critical in just the right ways-- so spiritually expressive and diverse. Never before have I seen a community so full of visionaries with, in the words of my friend Inland Empire, vast, oceanic souls. Disco Elysium *can't* die when so many people hold it so dearly in their hearts and actually understand what it stands for.
This is just a result of the game being exactly like it players - nurturing critical thinking and giving the freedom to find out the real meaning behind "what kind of cop are you?" game's selling slogan. Its beautiful (AND HARDCORE!)
The scenes look like something you would see in a history book
I feel like these could work if they were visualization/conceptualization/encyclopedia/Inland Empire flashbacks, and were a bit more detailed. Also, the writing is too hamfisted.
I feel some sort of catharsis by looking at these pictures. I mean, all of the things that were shown seem unnatural for Disco Elysium: the text, the art, this clearness of future which completely cancels some of your choices. But doesn't it really fit on the meta-level? Especially the last two pictures. It gives us something that exactly depicts what happened with ZA/UM and the work they've done. And it also really accurately transmits the emotions we have to feel by seeing such "before/after" view - even the text lost part of it's soul, as Martinaise itself. So, when I see this, I feel the same feeling about the fictional world of Elysium, the development of the game and, of course, the similiar things in the real world, including the city where I live. And it worths a lot.
Not everything ends. Sometimes they sleep a dreamless slumber only to awaken to the world that has moved on. And then, without warning they return. Changed in countless permutations but with the same brilliant soul they had when they first left our world.
Don't believe me? Ask David Lynch. Perhaps we'll see a return to this world in 25 years. Even if we don't, it's influence will live on and spark new creativity for the rest of eternity. Revachol Forever.
Rec
I really have to start a second attempt at Twin Peaks
the Twin Peaks comparison is great!
i saw the one that represents ‘71 first and thought it actually did capture the kind of hollow “there was beauty here once, now all that’s left is emulation” of the corporate era quite well. after having seen the rest it’s clear that this is just the vibe of all four pieces. as you said, no real artistic intent, just a history textbook photograph an “objective” view of things that happened
The irony of these scenes has to be intentional by the creatives, right?
Think about just how blatant it is, showing scorched earth, proclaimed victory, then building a sanitised version of something that used to be familiar to us. These were released alongside a photo mode largely slated for being too corporate, and any executive with a surface-level understanding of DE would say "Yeah, the art is visually consistent so must be good art. It references the world Kurvitz wrote, so it must be good writing. It's dystopian and corporate, so fits the game's theme. Go for it"
But look at the detail in the 4th scene. The picture itself is on-the-nose, but the details to support it are *very* specific, some of which are only off-hand references in the games or the books. Whoever made this scene has the deep understanding of interesting details, but used them for an obvious and uninteresting display of a corporate takeover. It actually took a lot of creative talent in art and writing to make scenes this uncreative. Don't those two contradict each other? If it's about the world of Elysium, sure. But not if these pictures are a representation of ZA/UM through the eyes of the artists. Presenting them in a bold highlighter with no nuance almost seems like a way to bait management into grabbing the shiny thing, so they can criticise ZA/UM from where they can. It feels too ironic for that not to be the case, unless every artist still there is oblivious. Management certainly is, but its a tough sell to say every creative is too.
As a side note, the visuals/understanding of niche details (even when conveyed poorly) in these scenes highlight that Elysium is now bigger than Kurvitz/Rostov. Even if Kurvitz/Rostov win every legal proceeding and take back ZA/UM and the IP, that new ZA/UM would still have missing pieces from the creative talent beyond the famous names that made the first game. These art pieces are corporate and direly miss the humanity/subtlety that Kurvitz would bring to the table. But if Kurvitz does any new project, the narrative will be good but what other half of DE's soul will *he* have lost?
Your quotes accompanying the firing squad sticker are exquisite 😂
I would have loved a sequel but there’s something utterly perfect about the way capital has completely dismantled that possibility - and then sought to try and shoehorn in a very one-dimensional loredrop on to the original, extremely ambiguous game. It just makes the themes of the original resonate so much more.
Small note on the pronunciation of "Dagens": while I haven't read the book and can't speak to how it is portrayed there, the word is not French but the Swedish word for "Today's". Several current Swedish newspapers have it as part of their titles. The authors being Estonian, I would say a Swedish language connection is very likely intentional. The Swedish pronunciation would be something like "daa-gens" with emphasis on the first syllable and a hard g. With Estonia having spent a long time as a Swedish colonial/imperial possession that would fit with the general theme of foreign imperialism.
I agree with your critique, but it's somehow fitting that Disco Elysium, a multilayered labor of love, meets its end in so flat a manner. Beauty dies in anticlimax; if it didn't, then it would be no death but a transformation.
Revachol was a beautiful, hopeless place. ZA/UM was a beautiful, hopeless company.
Living in a post-Soviet country, I can relate to some of these scenes.
I even believe they were based on the original authors' unfinished materials.
After the collapse of the USSR, an unrestrained wild capitalism flooded its former territory.
At some point, malls and other businesses began to grow everywhere, burying the history and integrity of the urban landscape under concrete and ads.
The corrupt government didn't care about the demolition of a park or a historical building. Sometimes, to justify themselves, they simply stuck an ugly youth center in a random place and called it a day.
Many places that once felt like they belonged to the people and were filled with little things with their own history are now just plain.
So, I believe this is what the author intended for Revachol.
postsoviet country communism fans be like "yeah just ignore 80 years of murder pain and suffering. its the malls that were built after that are bad!!"
@@hydroxide5507 Being from a post-soviet country myself I can only agree that I felt the same way as the original comment - and although it's terrible, it's a part of *our* history. Call me masochist, but I prefer an almost unpolished destroyed view that contains all of historical events we went through in the last century to a soulless cleaned shopping mall which hides everything our ancestors fought and died for, regardless of their side. Of course, I would prefer if the history would be preserved and valued, if we would only see destroyed buildings in museums or as monuments left in their original state only as a reminder. But it's not what happened
And the Frittte building reminds me of a beatiful nursing house in my hometown, which was built around 1830s. Legend says, it's basement was used for shootings by KGB and in may be just a legend, but it shows the importance of the building to people. Somewhere in 2000s local convenience store chain invested into renovating the building to make a new store out of it and now it bears their ugly logo right in the center of the facade. Literally everyone I know thinks that's disrespectful and distasteful, but that's what the rich people did when the government couldn't preserve the history on it's own. (Google "проспект красноармейский 4 барнаул" to see it for yourself)
Right in the front of it stands a monument to the industry of the region, built in 1825, when the town turned 100 years old. It's made of 12 granite blocks which just stand tightly on top of each other. After the revolution, (you can't make this shit up, I swear) the communists tried to take it apart to make their own monument but couldn't move the blocks AT ALL.
@@hydroxide5507 I am not a communist fan. Moreover, it was exactly because of 80 years of planned economy that my country had no mechanisms of protection against oligarchs and other bad actors.
Somehow, Martanaise losing all it's soul is even sadder than it being nuked into oblivion and the pale subsuming the world. The first death is in the heart.
I will say, I don't completely hate the scenes. The dragoons are mildly interesting, and there's something about Idiot Doom Spiral staying that resonates with me.
To me it feels like the new people in charge found some old bits of concept art, maybe even stuff that had been essentially discarded and not intended for the final canon, and decided to recreate them and come up with lore blurbs for them on their own.
I assume the "wedding" being talked about in the final collage is the wedding of labor and capital vis a vis the Débardeurs' Union, which seems to indicate that Le Retour was successful, just not what anyone had hoped for. Evrart did say he was going to "Incorporate this place to kingdom come" and that he had a "...bold new vision of incorporated socialism...".
part of me wonders that at least in broad strokes some of these frames were floating in the air for DE2's (and beyond) ideas and if people would react so negatively to such a non-heroic ending
What if corporate-inflicted withering in the primordial white noise of unrealized potential is, in fact, the message.
These images give me wall of Berlin vibes.
This is more real than real events. Scene 4 feels like my childhood city.
it hits really hard, and i highly doubt that *wasnt* intentional
13:44 has more to say, is more artful and in-depth, and resonates with me more than any of ZA/UM's four god awful creations did.
I actually think because of how flat and soulless these four pictures are they are perfectly fit and describe the grim future of Revachol
I AM REVACHOLIERE
I AM THE CITY
I AM A FRAGMENT OF FRITTE STOCK PORTFOLIOS
if i were to be a dev making such collage unlockable images, i wouldve made 4 images for one location. the middle of the city like the last image, showing potential different futures of martinaise. befitting the 4 ideologies you can lean towards in game, denoted by the statue being changed each time. hopeful futures, barren futures.
This ultra liberal Future the Pictures shown
Fascism a Statue of measurehead
Communism Lots of Red
Centrist Vote Kim kitsuragi posters
Part of me wants to like these more, granted it could just be cope because any new details about elysium I’m going to eat whole, but I also think even with Robert and the other true creators gone, these could have been scenes that they had had built and that the studio just poached after the fact. I think it isn’t out of the question that the return just, didn’t pan out. Historically speaking not every just cause won out, not every story ends with triumph. Often history trudges on with melancholy and dismay leaching to it. But then I just can’t help but think about that in a way being the message of the original, that against the forces of entropy, hopelessness and capital miracles can still happen; Kim nailing the shot against the mercenary, the impossible domino tower holding its shape against the limits of impossibility, the insulindian phasmid. Miracles can happen, and having the end result of that message be “Clair kicked out Lilienne, her kids and the washer woman to execute an obviously stupid plan and it didn’t work anyways.” As much as I would like these to be more impactful, I refuse to let the soul of this world and it’s message end with this.
I only feel pain for disco elysium, the only thing left for us is the feeling of freedom
I won't pretend to have a deep knowledge about the lore and the 'what has and should be happeneing', but this feels like it uts the dump into the lore dump. It does not jump the gap between feeling tacked on (because it literally is tacked on afterall) and feeling like it belongs.
They made dragoons a literal flame spitting cavalry lol!
This combined with the notion of a sequel will never come…
Revachol like Harry at the start died it's what was born from their rot that will be the exciting second wind for their world, it's people, their stores
It also sucks how they missed the point of the complex that Evrart was building by confirming it is real
What was the point?
@@falco5824evrart appears Like your Run of the mill Gangster but there are hints that He actually has beliefs after all
B
your First instinct Is to think that whatever construction Project you helped Is Just so He could get richer
@@falco5824 while Evrart is caring (kind of) to his citizens the game definitely tries very hard to make it ambiguous if he would actually build that complex he was promising and showing that he DID actually build it ruins the whole idea
Evrart is kind of meant to be a really corrupt buisnessman who also does actually care about Martinaise. The complex in a way is the absolutely perfect showcase of him as a character because either Joyce,the woman who herself has alot of experience working with the Claire brothers and knows them more than others (but also could be really biased and politically driven) is right about what will happen or Evrart the guy who lies alot and likes to be very sneaky about what he says but also straight up rants to you ecstatically about the complex idea and is really hyped and confident in it is right about what will happen
You see what I mean? It is 100% shown that it is not meant to be fully known so missing the point so much that you show construction even happened and worse, show he actually was telling the truth about it is stupid.
Sorry for such a in depth response but ay you are on a Disco Elysium video and I hope you liked reading it!
@@straferthesluggo3096 thanks yeah that's really interesting. I liked how hard to parse Evrart was on his morals and hadn't really connected that to the complex.
not to mention the fact that there are choices the player can make that can potentially stop or delay the construction from taking place. cementing that future just makes the importance of the player's decision completely pointless
These would work much better if they had some kind of narrative framing, like being snapshots/captions culled from an in-universe history book. The artists and writers didn't do a bad job within the parameters they were given, but the zoomed out omniscient perspective feels so wrong for this game.
I finished the game yesterday and I got through the scene where you get to talk with the "Spirit of Revachol". Remembering the vividness of that scene I experienced all but a few hours ago and then seeing this adds a hint of bile to the already sour taste in my mouth.
EDIT: It's as if reality shattered the lens of fiction and the mosaic created by it's shards revealed an otherworldly nightmare. Like, the entity inside of the video game knew what was going to happen to her, she asked Harry for help but, as the 'gamer' we get to see her last throes and we know what actually caused it. Innocent Revachol thought what 'did her in' was the whims of the universe she belonged to, blissfully unaware of the machinations happening in the realm her creators existed it.
The Claire Center one is a kind of weird and depressing choice. Especially since you can 100% prevent it from being built a few different ways in the game.
I am so pumped for more of your videos on this universe. Even in death, disco Elysium will probably always be my favorite game of all time.
garth marenghi's darkplace reference lets go
I like how boring and realistically depressing this ending is. It’s like the end of the game itself irl. The game was destroyed by capitalism with no hope. No dreams. Just a boring end
11:01 that is exactly what the book was setting up wasn't it? the world of disco elysium just ends one random day and that's it
“SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL IS GOING TO HAPPEN” Hold onto hope that something beautiful WILL happen. The fanbase around Disco Elysium will survive beyond ZA/UMs demise.
At the very least, Disco Elysium's existence has been an inspiration for writers and game devs for their own creations. It will always be a beacon for what games, poetry, and art, can be.
Thanks for keeping the hope alive, wally
Not to be overly dramatic and 100% Actual Art Degree. We already know what I'm about to say.
Shit's not canon. It is a façade, like you conclude.
The crime of having the blessed narrator, with his voice perfect for delivering the lines of Disco Elysium, deliver these undeserving words with none of the punch.
No gravitas. Nothing out of the ordinary, unsettling, chilling, surprising, insightful, satirical.
"But they ignite much more than the flames in the people targeted tonight"
"It seems okay to let yourself be just a 'little' happy"
"The bitter taste of salt and silica hangs severely in the air"
"Pay for your bag and don't forget your receipt"
Grade school book report stuff.
Safe, always at the end, controlled, restrained, with the fear of reprimand.
There isn't much new to comment. It's just enraging and ultimately sad.
I can only hope we get to hear more from the OG gang soon.
Jamrock playing around with the collage mode? Capital really does subsume its critiques into itself /s
(I love the Kompus quote at 13:41 btw)
this was genius
Disco Elysium was a game which helped me say no to alcohol, it changed my life, for the better.
Now if that isn"t an endorsement then I do not know what is.
No matter the aftermath, I do hope we shall see another... OG ZA/UM team creation sooner rather than later...
If not, well... thanks for everything.
I feel like I don't truly understand anything going on when I watch your discussions on this game.
My theory for this is that these lore scenes represent for the game what happens in the world, that all this twisted stuff with ZAUM and the loss of the devs and these final scenes mirror the world of Elysium itself. A death of its art and its novelty, what is happening to disco elysium is metaphor to the game itself somehow, like ZAUM is the pale eating the world in our world as well. I don't know, it's just odd to me how this happens Elysium is too complex for me to understand but this feels like what happens to it, like it always was going to happen to it. There will be no more Elysium just like how the Pale and with ZAUM.
it all for not everything just become more broken each day
3:57 What were they thinking? Did they not realise they were building in the doomed commercial area?
Just finished the game for the fifth time in 15 months. This work of art transcends all boundaries.
I love how the game studio itself follow the same path as it's own game end
I take the last picture to be a meta-commentary on the company itself rather than "official lore". The state of Martinase and the state of ZA/UM seem like a deliberate parallel.
Kind of just feels like a middle finger, not sure to who exactly, but all that hope and struggle of both the characters and the player--all to say nope, everything you attempted to do fails and the corporations take over and the place gets nuked, the end.
got chills at that Hegel reference
Honestly, as much as I agree that these works lack the depth and soul of Elysium's original art, there is something about that last scene that makes me extremely sad. Somehow, the flatter, more corporate art look hammers home how much of Martinaise's spirit is sucked from it by foreign capital. It died long before the nuke is dropped, and the pale subsumes it.
All I can say right now is "thanks fot giving updates on news and other stuff about Disco Elysium". I really hope that things will change in a good way. As for collage mode , I don't want to accept it as a canon, because it has some AI vibes in it. I don't say it is created like this , but has some fake Elysium style.
This just leaves a profound sadness for some reason. It's like hearing that your old friend did indeed fall off, is now destitute and no longer is able to recognize you. You can't bear watching how someone so brilliant and full of fire is now barely a bit more than a featureless poster, only oozing defeat from every pore.
I liked seeing the city before it was destroyed but that was something easy to do, otherwise everything else just flet flat
having looked around at others views. i think the Red horse replacing the statue of king philip is might be the closest these extra's get to being poighient.
that single post card would be amazing. if it was a memory boucing around in the pale from the future. the ghost of what will happen if revishol dies. The shadow of capital on the future, if "The Return" fails to manifest. Revishol if the first to be obliterated at the end of the world after all, revishol dies at the hands of capital and capital, dies to the nihalism it created, flat prop, in the shape of a horse.
super off topic but i finally played disco elysium!! and now i can finally watch all your videos and fully understand them!! im so happy!!
The writing here feels like 'disco-flavored' and maybe these were teasers for the other projects that are now canned
I think it's fitting, even if it's not *as* subtle or nuanced as the writing of the base game. I felt like the game was veering in a fatalistic direction anyway, so the stagnation and then eventual abandonment of martinaise is accurate, even if it's not exactly deep. It's like a half step towards the destruction laid out in the book.
Part of me somehow wonders even though it's messed up that maybe this was planned. Like what ZAUM is doing to the game illustrates the creator's original point of art, communism and capital perfectly. Like it seems entirely perfect of a message that the game tells and the publishers are making happen with the game itself.
More lore we need all the lore, Hand it over you disco Elysium lore
the title screen art is in all likelihood a sunset, not a sunrise. in my personal interpretation at least, it doesn’t communicate hope for the future. at best it communicates joy in death. the case that it’s a sign of optimism for revachol could’ve been made stronger before Sacred and Terrible Air, I think, but knowing what we know it’s hard to see the light in the background as anything but the “Tequila Sunset” at best, or foreshadowing of nuclear annihilation at absolute worst.
Disco Elysium told us precisely what is needed to create it's compelling story. To add on to the narrative in such an inelegant way only tarnishes the original. Since the scenes are so separate from Disco Elysium proper, I simply put them out of my mind and consider them not canon.
Gotta be honest these lore drops from the Collage stuff just doesn't feel, I dunno, right...?
honestly the collage scenes felt alot like concept art that never left the cutting room floor. like they needed something else to justify calling "the final cut" and they said "fuck it let em play with dolls or something. show them all the shit these dumbass fans want like what The Revolution or whatever happens to the fishing village".
honestly the lore drop works better if i just imagine that the sections about the future of revachol are a metanarrative about the state of za/um at the time collage mode was released
The whole execution scene is reduced to a mere element for this... Collage Mode?!
Great analysis!
I really hate them showing the future of Martanaise at all. I feel like one of the core themes of the game was hope, the small glimer that, even if the chances are near zero, even if revolution is seen as impossible, even if the pale will swallow everything eventually, there's still hope. Just a small, small chance that maybe, after enough time, even for just a short while, Revachole will be free.
I didn't interpret the final dialogue in D41 to be recruitment for a revolution, I just thought that they were talking about recent crimes and then deciding who'll stay on the payroll.
Un jour je serai de retour près de toi
People seem to really think the concept of canon is black and white but it's really not. This is in a very gray area to me. And when it's gray, I think you just choose for yourself which things you think of as canon.
It's perfect ending. If it ends it cannot be spoiled by new entity.
Did the postcards 2 weeks ago after another play through, and I remember clearly thinking the writing was…. Off? So much chaos around ZA/UM though, so I can’t blame the devs at all
For how many ages hence shall this our lofty scene be acted over / In states unborn and tongues yet to be known
Spot on analysis.
Personally what I dislike the most is them making my GOAT Evrart's harbor quest meaningless
For real!
Death of the Writer
The construction was the weirdest to me
You are building a school in a swamp?
I am not a construction worker and I know that will sink in the water.
The makeshift dock is still there
So too are the boats and bridge
This would not be allowed in or near a construction yard
the fact that we will never see Disco Elysium 2 fills me with rage
Seems fitting to me. This is a game about the absurd futility of hope. As long as they've achieved la price stabilité, that is the most important thing.😛
Although the narrator lacks nuance, i don't think its terrible, and I don't think that we have lost everything. Its possible the revolution happens late. It definitely deserves critique, however It's possible to remain positive about the writing.
Can't wait for the lore videos!
In response to the final question of the video... I cannot create a neutral response because the context has completely soured me to anything the studio might want to add at this point. It would need to be beyond exceptional to escape that, and it just... isn't. It actually feels insulting. It feels like someone took a few notes and tried to fill in some gaps with an extremely limited understanding of what the source material was. It's the kind of corporate criticism you get in media produced by corporations... even the line about paying for things, felt like an insult, almost suggesting the source material was so puerile and and ideology so incoherent that paying for things is sad, and shops are corperate and make people angry. This maybe completely unfair, but fuck it. The studio, or more appropriately, its owners, deserve every unfair thing they get at this point.
You could say its a PALE imitation
Okay i see myself Out