The key fact for me is simply this… the father hearing of the school shooting, and his first instinct is to think about his child and run home to check for the gun. As a parent if that’s your thought you are well aware the child is unstable.
I agree & for the families of victims I want them charged buttttt. We don't charge families who let their kids drive & they end up getting smashed & killing a family. Let's say the parents knew said kid was going to a party also, it's sticky ground for our rights & it never getting this far in case law before.
@Alycia Esposito EXACTLY 💯!!!! Plus, while they were at the school that day, NEITHER ONE of them CARED about their son, they BOTH WERE ONLY CONCERNED with getting BACK TO THEIR JOBS!!!!!! WTF kind of parenting IS THAT????!!!! 😑 THEN, we ALL hear about MONTHS earlier Ethan had TOLD his parents about his hallucinations & his "father" told him to "suck it up" & his "mother" LAUGHED at him????!!!!!! WTF????!!!!! They BOTH DESERVE to FACE these CRIMINAL CHARGES 💯 ALL THE WAY!!!!!!! IF they had NOT bought the gun for him, gotten him the mental health help he NEEDED & NOT been soooo EAGER to go back to their JOBS that day & taken him home, THIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED!!!!!!!! They DO HOLD RESPONSIBILITY for what THEIR son DID!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!! I'm just VERY WORRIED these IGNORANT judges AREN'T going to rule that way 😕 😔!!!!! But, IF they DON'T rule for the prosecution, I pray 🙏 that they APPEAL it 🙏 to the Supreme Court 🙏 🙏!!!!!!!
@Bosh she texted that to him as soon as she heard there was a shooting in progress at the school, because she knew it was most likely him that was the shooter.
Does their negligence rise being charge for involuntary manslaughter? Did they tell him to take a gun to school? Did they know he took a gun to school previously and then didn't get rid of the gun? Did they know he had the gun that day and didn't tell the school? I think the states theory is a stretch. What if his drawings were about guns but he brought a knife from home instead. Would the state still be charging the parents? Are they supposed to remove all sharp objects from the home? Neglectful of their duty of care maybe. Complicit in the murders to the point of involuntary manslaughter when they didn't know he had the intent, or means to shoot anyone that day, I think not.
@@davidshumway9639 Hi David, no that doesn't make the parents guilty necessarily. This was just a comment on their concern for him. I've watched all the court video, which came out awhile ago. A lot of testimony. Also, holding them responsible would create a precedent. That could be misused. Your point is well taken.
Negligent … Really They took time out of their busy day to buy him a lethal gun. Maybe they couldn’t afford the cost of help. Maybe all they could afford was a harmless little gun for him to play with!
He was not of the age to have a gun, yet the parents purchased it for him. Yes…they should be held responsible! Just as if they had purchased him a car at 12 years old and he goes out driving and kills someone. They should be held responsible.
They were asking to take him home,they refused! His backpack wasn't even searched by parents, or his locker! They both refused to cooperate with school officials! Enabled him
I thought that too at first, but I was surprised to find out at the probable cause hearing that the school counselor told them he could stay. He testified that he told the parents that Ethan shouldn’t be alone and he wasn’t a danger to others, only a potential danger to himself. I don’t think the parents are innocent, but I think the school is partially responsible as well. They’re trained professionals but they missed all of these red flags? The parents should have done better and the school should have too.
Ok what about parents that feed their children crap food such that they are overweight and get picked on …isn’t it the parents job to teach healthy living at home? This may be a positive trend..,but my heartbreak 💔 for any parent in their situation. They probably never imagined their son , their child…no. I couldn’t.
Just how many texts, drawings, and behavioral issues does one parent need before they realize their child is screaming out for help? Apparently in this case these parents wouldn’t have known, or even cared their child needed help even if it slapped them right in the face. They need to be held responsible.
Exactly! And he was home alone a lot as Jennifer spent a lot of time at a barn with her horses and also spent time having an affair. Neither of them paid much attention to Ethan. They acted like he was an inconvenience. Ya have to wonder, if Ethan had grown up in a family that loved him and interacted with him, would he have turned out different. I think he would have. Both parents need to do prison time if only for child neglect which equals child abuse! And why was the gun where Ethan had access to it? Horrible excuses for parents. And you know they knew they were guilty since they tried to flee after the shooting.
@@johnwalbridge2430 Yes he wanted a gun so they got him a gun and then didn’t keep it secure. No kid needs a gun. Basically the parents put the murder weapon in Ethan’s hands.
@@johnwalbridge2430 Yes, his father purchased the gun because he was under-age to do so using his son's money. This case is a great example of the chickens of negligent parenting coming home to roost!
How is it that a bartender can be charged with manslaughter for “over serving” a customer who gets into their car drunk & kills somebody but these PARENTS can’t be charged for their child taking a gun they bought him to school & kills 4? Make that make sense!!! A bartender doesn’t have a moral or legal responsibility of a complete stranger who is LITERALLY & LEGALLY AN ADULT…but as parents we do have that obligation for our minor children! Parents are charged with truancy if their child skips school or allowed to stay home! Parents would be charged if they provided their children or other minors with alcohol but it’s up for debate rather they should be charged for giving their emotionally disturbed child a gun who again, takes it to school & kills 4 innocent children? People with authority need to stop placing a higher priority on the 2nd amendment than they do the life of a child. It’s sad, twisted and pathetic to say but the NRA, a politician, a lawyer or a judge will NOT do a damn thing until a gun takes the life of their innocent child as if the value of their child’s life is far greater with a higher importance than others. The same goes for the people in comment section saying the child did it, not the parents…you’d be saying the complete opposite if it was your child he killed at school that day knowing the gun was obtained by negligent parents & given to a child who may suffer from a mental illness. DO BETTER…cuz it could very well be your child the next time.
Very well put. A bartender generally doesn't know the person ordering drinks any where close to the degree a parent knows their child.A bartender doesn't know how the client holds their liquer or if they indulged in any intoxicant earlier. A parent should have some sort of idea of what is going on in their child's thoughts and life.
You had me with you until you started in on the 2nd Amendment. Adults who are sane are entitled to apply for gun ownership & I thank God we do! This case has nothing to do with responsible, legal gun ownership. It has EVERYTHING to do with terrible, irresponsible & non-responsive parents who neglected their son. They need to be prosecuted & serve time in prison just like the murderer they shaped & armed.
The school officials let him back in class knowing this information. They should be held accountable as well. Parents refused to take him out..... school should have NEVER allowed that!
From what I understand, that is apart of this case in a way. They were called to the school that morning for a violent drawing or message of some sort, and did not take him home or notify the school he had access to the gun or search his backpack to make sure he didn’t have the gun. So the school knew he was disturbed but nothing of the gun.
Trying to deflect the responsibility from the parents, to a school. They knew they bought a gun. They knew they had not secured it adequately - since he took it to school from their home, loaded. They knew he had mental issues long before they even bought the gun - he was telling them he heard and saw demons. The school did not know these things. They had vet care for their horses, yet the child was not taken to a doctor, even before the shooting when the boy was delusional.
I disagree. They called the parents in, the parents refused to take him home. Feel bad for the schools, because it seems you must have the knowledge of a police officer, the education of a teacher and if you say or do anything to offend, you can lose your job. The problems of violence in school has reached an unusual level requiring far more education about the laws and rights to search someone’s belongings etc. A kid can get violent towards others, but if a teacher grabs him too hard, holds the, down the wrong way they lose their jobs. We need special schools for problem children to attend where special training can address it appropriately.
and if he was refused back in class and nothing happened the teacher would be terminated for that judgment. It's all so clear looking back, it's hard to do what 'should' have been done prior due to catch 22 that the school and staff would be criticized no mater what they did.
These people treated their horses better than their own kid. Their horses had all of their medical needs tended to and their manes groomed & brushed. It’s so awful how neglectful they were to him. What he did was devastating and inexcusable, but he never deserved to be neglected by his own parents.
I have to agree with you but teenagers are so moody they may have thought just giving him his space is what he wanted. It’s so easy to berate them from my I phone.
These parents were negligent at so many levels. They literally put the gun in his hands. The school told them to take him home. Now they should have INSISTED but they did tell them he was a danger and showed them the drawings. Why no one checked his backpack then is beyond me. But this attorney trying argue that the parents didn’t know is a lie. They wouldn’t miss an hour of work to devote to his care. And look at how it ended up. They couldn’t be bothered.
@@tinawindham6958 yes kids steal guns but when the parents are called up to the school and they still do nothing it becomes the parents fault especially when their have been previous ignored warning signs..
@@terriesales if a parent that buys a lethal weapon for their unstable kid that within days of getting said weapon shoots up a school....yes straight to jail. These people are terrible they neglected that boy who was asking them for help.
@@momac7230He was BEGGING for help! They are negligent and if I was a parent of a child that died because of this, I’d be damned if they were not held responsible. I’d raise holy hell!
@@TugIronChief no it doesn’t. If 3 adults break into a home and one man murders the occupant, they all go down for murder. It doesn’t matter if the other 2 didn’t know he had a gun or if one wasn’t even in the house. The parents bought him the gun he legally couldn’t legally own
The parents are both reckless in this. Mom was busy having an affair. Dad was busy trying to deliver food. They couldn’t be bothered with this kid. They both were extremely detached. This entire situation is gut wrenching to think about Ethan is a little baby, and he will spend many years, or the rest of his life in an institution, as we have no idea how his future will play out. That kid cried out for help more than enough times. He was neglected. He would text us parents when he was home alone, and expressed to them his fears. Again, they didn’t care. Sometimes they wouldn’t even respond to him, sometimes when they did, they would say anything to get him to stop texting them. It’s just a sad situation. There are far too many facts to not face consequences. They are the parents. Bottom line.
@@jamie91433 yes absolutely. With these facts in this case that was clearly stated in this hearing, yes ABSOLUTELY these parents should go to jail for their part, or lack there of, better said. The parents were WAY more aware than the school, they both not only had the knowledge of his mental issues in March, they were the ones who knew beyond a doubt this boy not only had a gun that the dad himself purchased for him, but mom had taken him to gun range with that same firearm to shoot with him. Not to mention they BOTH were well aware that the minor had COMPLETE access to that firearm without supervision being required… (info that the school DID NOT HAVE) the lack of both parents of their legal obligations to the safety of this minor is indeed criminal, n yes ABSOLUTELY they BOTH should face consequences. With all the red flags in this situation it was clearly on one of two path ways, the kid would have committed Suicide or kill others. The question was when n who. To be totally frank, I’m surprised it wasn’t the parents themselves who weren’t killed instead. N quite frankly… i probably would have been happier with that outcome. These parents that belittle, laugh at, neglect, n all around mentality abuse their children shouldn’t be allowed to have kids much less live a carefree life, in my humble opinion. (Not a popular opinion, ehhh I honestly don’t care)
oh wow Ethan is a little baby ,you do realise that that kid is 16 and blew away classmates with a gun he knew he shouldn't have had ,thats no baby that is an evil little shite who should be locked up and the key thrown away.
Why wasn’t the fire arm in a locked and secure safe place in the home? That fire arm was obviously accessible to EC, which that is the parents responsibly when having a fire arm in the home, mostly with a minor in the home, and one with mental issues.
The gun was his they bought it for him of course he knew the code if they paid attention enough to understand he didn't need to know the code. It could help if s kid were home alone and in danger a home invasion or anything he was clearly unstable they were to busy to see how unstable he was
Are your steak knives locked up? What if you kid killed someone with a steak knife should you go to jail? geeze people grow a brain. Put down the pitchforks of rage please. Maybe your kid posted someone on facebook that cause another kid to die, should they take you to jail?
@@kalyn7220 In Michigan your house is the storage, no laws on having to lock a firearm inside of a locked home. Do you keep your car keys inside a locked safe? Do you keep the rubbing alcohol in a locked safe? A kid could take your car keys and run people over hopped up on the booze he took from your fridge. Should we now arrest Kalyn now before that happens?
If you purchase and fill out paperwork for a minor to own a gun then you should be fully responsible and liable. Especially a minor with mental health issues. If they didn’t recognize the MH issues they are still liable since they are the parents.
As a giant 2A supporter and second amendment absolutist and a parent of a 12-year-old girl. I feel that since the crime was perpetrated with a handgun and in the state of Michigan you must be 21 years of age to purchase or own a handgun that yes this falls under parental negligence. Had this been perpetrated with a long gun I would feel differently
I'm curious and not here to bait or argue. AT ALL. Simply curious, Do you think the mental health of the person regardless the type of gun should also have impact on charging the parents? Thank you in advance for responding if you choose to.
@@TheVuduYuDu I realize no one asked me. But, I think you make a very good and valid point. Any child who has exhibited mental or emotional challenges/issues shouldn’t be given a Gun period and instead should have been given therapy. At the very least he should’ve been given more attention from the parents to help him through such a difficult time. He had just lost his best friend and feeling alone and ostracized already. To head that his parents simply told him to suck it up and laughed at his pain and suffering, breaks my heart for both of them. Hindsight is always 20/20. Incredibly difficult situation that I’m glad I don’t have to argue or judge and so very blessed to have never been put in that situation.
@@janeygirl6081 Please don't think I was criticizing you. I understand that anyone can and will post and I have no problem with it. Especially when it is well reasoned and well said. With that being said, I agree 100% with everything you wrote above. This situation is so disturbing. I also think that that level of neglect and really just poor parenting is more common than we think. I shudder to think how that dysfunction will impact society let alone the children having to live through this. Just sad.
I’m sorry, if I’m called to the school because staff finds a math sheet with a drawing of a gun with the words “The thoughts won’t stop, help me” and “blood everywhere” on them among other things, whether or not my child’s ever shown a mental issue a day in his life before, he’s coming home with me. My mind is ALREADY running through a series of “foreseeable outcomes” and I don’t need to hear that the school psychologist thinks he may be suicidal because I’m way ahead of you. We are leaving because something’s up and it’s time for a one on one with my kid. Period. Add to that that I already know he owns a gun AND has been mentally troubled prior to? That’s my legal duty right there.
They should prosecute the damn school !! Why didn’t they look in that kids backpack!!! The damn teacher had it in her hands!!! And don’t give me that shit about they aren’t allowed to. That is 100% bullshit
I can tell you that disturbed children almost always give screaming clues to their need to hurt themselves or others. To say this was not foreseeable is wrong. People just weren't SEEING OR LOOKING AT HIM.. AND barring teens going hunting with Dad, and taking weapons out of the home gunsafe TOGETHER, minors should Not have access to guns. Just My humble opinions.
Defense attorney refers to the judges as "you guys." One judge corrects her. She immediately says "you guys" again. They were also told not to mention Ethan by name. Yet they did, how many times? Clown show defense.
You bet these lousy parents need to held accountable & prosecuted. They bought the gun for him, took him to target practice, knowing this kid was depressed, they failed to secure the gun & failed to tend to their son when warned of his violent fantasies.
Absolutely! Parents are supposed to be responsible for whatever their kid does before turning 18. Even good parents suffer from what their children do sometimes, these parents didn’t even care to try.
@@jburt552 if your kid breaks someone’s window, YOU have to pay for it. Kids can’t even legally sign a contract until they are 18, parents have to go-sign. Why? Because they are LEGALLY responsible for their kids and their actions. Period.
I understand that you can’t be with your minor children 24/7, but you certainly don’t purchase a fire arm for that minor and then not make sure that it’s in a safe and secure place where that minor child cannot access it, mostly one with mental issues. Irresponsible as a parent!!
When someone has a dog off leach and bites another , we are responsible for the that person's injuries. If our child is involved in a car accident, the parents are responsible for the damages. If our child causes damage to property, we are responsible. The parents are just as much responsible for their child here. They are negligent in their responsibility to protect him and others.
I think the legal issue is so interesting here. If the state wants to charge the shooter as an adult, how can the state turn around and say the parents are culpable for the shooter intentional acts, as a child?
Agree 100%. If the parents are responsible then the school is just as responsible. Any school would have checked his backpack as a precautionary step. 2nd they allowed him to stay in class in fear of him being alone and suicidal. The school should have stripped him of his backpack, checked his locker and kept a close eye on him. The precedent this will set is above and beyond. The prosecutor in this case has made this a political stunt. We as parents aren’t expected to monitor cell phone data, journals, ect. The foresight wasn’t there. The parents didn’t pull the trigger or have any intention of doing so. Intentional manslaughter is a stiff price to pay when your child commits heinous crimes. At this point he’s been charged as an adult and convicted as an adult. IMO there is no culpability connected to the parents. EC committed the crime, he’s responsible. Everyone from the school, to the licensed psychologist, the principal, and counselors should be charged and that is a slippery slope that I don’t believe we should be creating new laws for. If the prosecutor didn’t make this so political we wouldn’t be listening to this case.
The school as well as the parents should be charged. Also, both these defense attorneys are horrible. Of course they are guilty but, god find someone better.
the school did not buy him a gun and not keep it secured. The school did not know he was having delusions or hallucinations and had asked for help. The school may have some fraction of responsibility, but the parents were the instigator of this tragedy by buying him a gun and not making sure it was secured, AND NOT GETTING HIM HELP WHEN HE SAID HE WAS HAVING DELUSIONS.
If you “raise” a child that goes out and wreaks havoc on society, you most definitely need to be held accountable. Maybe if people knew there’d be repercussions, we wouldn’t have so many shi**y parents 🤷♀️
I thought the general rule is that children are tried as adults when they commit a serious violent felony and are 16. Or if they knowingly or recklessly commit a felony while performing an adult activity, like wielding a gun or driving a car…I feel like the prosecutor could have made a much stronger argument here. This was foreseeable because the parents purchased their minor son a gun and allowed him possession and control over it, while knowing of his mental distress. He used that gun and not another gun because it was his, and he may not have done this if he didn’t have his own gun unlawfully!
@@margaretchandler6194 correct, and he was unlawfully wielding a gun which he believed was his own because his parents purchased it for him. The fact that he’s being tried as an adult despite being 15 at the time demonstrates how depraved his acts were, and he wouldn’t have committed them had his parents not purchased him a gun. Which makes them the proximate cause of his actions. I think the prosecution dropped the ball on this point 😔
How many get arrested for supplying the gun used in a murder ???? Alot !!!! I have seen many people go to jail for buying or giving someone a gun that was used in a murder or any gun crime so why should it be different for the crumbly's
You express feelings and morals, not the criminal legal and civil legal responsabilities that are different.The son was the criminal,the parents,the civil responsibles of giving him a weapon.There is not criminal intention in the parents to violate criminal law.(Mens Rea)
Yes! The parents are responsible! They clearly knew of their son’s troubles and chose to do nothing. They even purchased him a gun knowing , they let him attend school knowing he had problems and was acting/displaying threatening behaviors. They NEED TO HELD ACCOUNTABLE! This has to stop ! Justice must be served !
As a mother of an Autistic son with personality issues who is now an adult, but even now I accept responsibility for him and I have 3 other grown up children but even when they was young I was on it 24/7 it was exhausting but I accepted it and helped him come to terms with his issues, I didn't need a Dr to tell me he had issues I recognised it at 3 years of age and got him the help and support he needed I certainly didn't buy him a gun . Yes they should be held responsible 100%.
Respect your commitment. Think these two lack common sense, and unfortunately that’s not uncommon. No pun intended. Meaning, find it hard to believe they will end up in jail for their ignorance. Buying him a gun, not sure. They bought, so it’s registered to the parents. I’d question how the gun was stored, where and why they bought it? Also, why they didn’t seek mental health. So many questions still unanswered. I’ve seen plenty of videos online of kids using guns at target practice, but each state has their own laws. We shall see what happens. But, maybe the laws should specify kids cannot shoot guns…period.
@@tinawindham6958 it is definitely hard but incredibly simple as well. Takes mom or dad to say Hey how you feeling inside today? We are overly concerned with how we feel and it’s time to build a better world and parent the children of our planet.
@@terriesales your comment is extremely legit but imo it comes down to parenting. My 15 yo son is a firearm child safety junior instructor. He teaches safety. He teaches accountability. He teaches responsibility. Having firearms in our home with a young son it was a no brainer. And even though we trust our son’s judgment, the only access to all firearms in our home is with mine or my husbands handprint. Makes sense and worth every penny of effort. Be well.
They are the last people on earth to want to see this happen? She’s out of her mind. If a school called me and told me this I would be terrified for his life, since the way it sounds, everyone seemed concerned for suicide. Yes, I can say why I would do, no I don’t have to be in this situation. The parents’ actions are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO far off base, I don’t know 1 single parent that would not have held onto their child for dear life if they’d been given this news. Ethan’s parents were like “oh well, he’s staying here. This sounds like a you problem not an us problem” and they left him there. They never bothered with him. They ignores him. They gave him a gun. They went home to check for it. You’re right, Ms Lawyer, they probably didn’t think he’d shoot his classmates BUT they definitely thought he’d shoot himself. They need to be held accountable. Period.
I agree. In one of her statements,the mother’s reference to suicide gave me shivers. It seemed almost as if suicide would free her of the kid sh repeatedly called wired.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 well said! I’m exactly where you are, except, if I just bought my kid a gun (which would never happen anyway), I think I would be just as worried about everyone in that school as well as my kid. This is a situation when you take the kid straight home and have a long talk while scheduling an appointment with a mental health professional ASAP! Then again, we believe in therapy in our family, it is important for kids to have adults they can talk to and if they don’t feel comfortable saying it to their parents, there should be another responsible option available. Kids are nuanced, they can’t be raised like Sims, just getting the bare basics.
Imo once that child was deemed to be tried as an adult, the parents are no longer responsible for that "adult's" actions. You cant have it both ways. Either try a child or try an adult but you cant bifurcate the status of a person once labeled by a law/court/attorneys.
So if you kill someone today should your parents (if alive) be jailed? If they are dead should they be dug up with the corpses put in jail? you sound insane.
Yes. I think it’s time parents are held accountable. This would also force parents to change their parenting skills. I know people hate this, but it’s time to bring back some of the “old” school ways back into society and make the humane race more accountable for their actions and that include how you parent your children.
You cannot mix causalities here : civil causality is about parents' responsability (father rsponsability) about their child behaviour.Criminal causality is about the child's responsability (charged or not as an adult) in a criminal act.
@@ashleyseeley5570 But as an example, in the Murdaugh case, Paul is the son who drunkenly crashed the boat owned by the father, and a young woman was killed. Buster, the older son knowingly and purposefully gave his underage brother his ID for the purpose of buying alcohol, which he did and that alcohol led to the crash. Prior to his death, Paul was the only one being criminally charged. The father who owned the boat, and the brother who gave him his ID to buy alcohol underage, are both being charged civilly, not criminally.
They knew he liked dark things too..told his mom he thought a demon was in the house, throwing his clothes around..my kid would immediately be getting help
I agree but are most parents of killers there?? Probably not… you can’t just pick and chose when you want to hold people responsible. If that was the case most parents of the previous shooters would be in jail.
Sadly there was a girl who went to that school and was there at the time of the shootings. She went on to MI State and was also present during those shooting. How could she possibly not have long term issues?
You bought your child a gun... That child took the gun and killed people... Rot in jail. When I was a kid, I shot out the neighbors window with my b.b. gun.... My dad had to pay for the window. I know this is apples and oranges here, but
The defense stating that the school could have looked at the bag too is not a defense. Those who birthed the monster have a bigger responsibility than the school. School and parents both should be charged. School will definitely be sued in civil court.
no not at all, but if they are going to hold these parents accountable then how can they charge him as an adult? Makes zero sense , they better start charging all these other parents out here when their kids get in trouble. I dont care of the crime. Charge all the parents or none.
what happens is the court will pick and choose what parents should be held accountable for the kids actions . this is not about just a shooting . I am sorry for the family's
Courts have already been doing that. Probably as long as there has been a Federal, State, County court systems to do so. Please go back and watch the preliminary/evidentiary hearing for the parents to get a better understanding of this process.
Yes, there were several major red flags in the months preceding the shooting. The mother owned horses ($$$$) and attended to all of their medical needs, but brushed off EC’s obvious need for a mental health evaluation. They also have a post on social media specifically saying that they bought the gun for EC. It was being locked up until Christmas. It was a straw purchase.
When the judge admonished defense the attorney right out of the gate for addressing them as "you guys" vs "the court" she did it immediately again. Come on women..listen! As professionals we already have a hard enough road without adding to it ourselves
You can't serve liquor to your child to the point that it makes them ill. But by all means allow them to freely access dangerous weapons of all sorts. Go America!
My parents ignored my diagnosis of anxiety at age 8. I was later dx with CPTSD. However I struggled I never hurt anyone but myself. My parents we’re definitely negligent.
Looking at this subjectively, these lawyers could have done a better job. They should have pushed the fact that the school had trained professionals tell them that their son was ok to remain in school that day and that the parents, who didn’t have the same knowledge base, trusted what the counselor was telling them. (That’s not to say the parents didn’t do anything wrong. I’m just looking at this solely from a legal standpoint.)
Yes!!! Not only them but all parent/parents that foist their rabid kids on the public. It's no different than charges against the owner of a dangerous dog running loose.
*ASK YOUR CHILDREN EVERY DAY* How was school. Was everyone nice to you? I had *four* babies and *never* failed to do this. When they told me someone was mean I *handled* it.
Those lawyers were not up to argue before these judges, way too immature and without wisdom. They are making up scenarios when they should be pointing to other cases…so unprofessional, calling judges “you guys,”walking in front of the podium, using minors names.
I don't understand what these judges are talking about. He is a MINOR. You can not give your minor child a gun who you knowingly is mentally unstable and not make sure it's in a safe secure place, When he's not hunting or whatever the f they bought a gun for a minor in the first place. Absolutely not. your responsible for your CHILD when they're still a f CHILD. period. They got him the gun that's a HUGE FACTOR. if they hadn't I wouldn't feel the same. Period. If he went behind their back with all this that's completely different. But that's just not what happened.
Right, if they gave him alcohol knowingly and let him drive, they would be responsible. They gave him a gun and did not secure it. They are responsible.
The unpacking was overwhelming, and the defense was well-prepared for the judge's questions. The judge said, “you charge him as an adult when he starts shooting!” I was stunned! 😅
oh really, that kid was a little shit he is 16, so knows right from wrong, how many of you all can put your hand on your heart and believe that this would never happen to you ,
If the parents knew their son was unstable and did not responsibly keep their guns locked up and did not get him the help he needed then why would he buy him a gun I believe they are as responsible as there child his journal shows that it was premeditated maybe they should have acted like parents
@@TugIronChief The Law will determine that. Break the Law and suffer the consequences. So go defund your own imaginary Law. This is USA Law. Happy Trails Commy. 🤧
This is true. We all know families like your comment. But these people were NOT amazing parents. They spent all their free time at the horse barns without their child. They ignored his pleas for help. They left firearms unsecured. They need to have repercussions for their horrible decisions.
@@kalyn7220 You know, parent are allowed to have hobbies. But what parents are not allowed to do is vet their horses, but not take their son to a doctor when he is complaining of hallucinations or delusions. If they had $$ to pay for vet care for the horses, they had $$ to pay for his mental health care. And they certainly should not have bought him a gun when he was delusional. LEaving it unsecured and ignoring that drawing - which begged for help - just confirmed the negligence.
@@arizonadreaming4183 He told his parents that he was seeing demons, and that he was afraid to be alone in the house. His parents knew he was mentally disturbed.
The fact that he was convinced as an adult would have been says it all.. you can't have it both ways... give a fifteen year old life without parol because he is 100% accountable for his actions and then turn around and blame the parents.. it's one or the other in my opinion!!
Had the school insisted he leave that morning, the parents wouldn't have had a choice. He has also been charged as an adult. Charging the parents is unnecessary at that point. If they believe he was mature and intelligent enough to be charged and convicted as an adult then the parents should not be held responsible unless they intentionally allowed him access to the gun.
The Crumbley's do not have very good lawyers or I just do not see the points they are trying to make. I also do not think the Crumbley's gave two hoots about their son or any responsibity for him. The mother's admonition to her son that she was not angry he was looking to purchase ammunition at school with a LOL and comment that next time he should not get caught seems negligent to me.
Prosecutors… if the parents didn’t fail at raising their child, he probably would not have become a murderer in such an egregious case that he had to be tried as an adult. Being tried does not equal “legal adulthood”!
@@TugIronChief actually, courts do it every single day, it’s just usually the financial burden of the minor rather than charges pressed against them for their wrongdoing. A judge can make any decision they feel is proper, and they can set precedent.
@@TugIronChief and they can decide to set precedent. Period. Doesn’t matter what anyone thinks should happen, the judges will come back with their decision to try them or not, and that will be final. 🤷🏽♀️ sounds like you’re scared
@@TugIronChief this won’t even be seen by the Supreme Court. And your religion has no place in government or the justice system. It goes by laws, not your book of fairy tales. 🤦🏽♀️ yep. Please don’t reproduce, if you did, don’t buy your spawns weapons, you may be sitting there one day and your gods won’t be able to get you out of it either.
The problem is, is every parent probably Should be tried if their kid goes crazy cause they didn’t “hug them as a child” doesn’t seem quite right as wrong as the parents are/were.
@@Remmysage that’s not really what is being questioned. The standard would be “if CPS were called prior to this incident, would they take away the child”? If the answer is no because what the parents are doing is to the best of their ability. In this case, the kid had empty and half full bottles of liquor all over his room, and dead animal bodies. They most likely wouldn’t get through half of the interview before deciding that the parents are too negligent and foster parents or a group home would be more stable. The premeditating circumstances of this kid’s childhood made all the difference.
At approximately 53 minutes in, the judge mentions families that have guns as hobbies and asks what the difference is between a family like that having a child who might fall into a depression over incidents in his life etc. The lawyer for the state had a very strong argument he could have used in this instance: what is the difference between that family and this instance? For me the argument I would have made, were I a lawyer, is simple: the difference is in the order of the events. The fictional family used guns together as a family, had been doing so for the lifetime of the child, and the child was familiar with and comfortable with guns in a healthy way. In this case, EC exhibited mental health issues for months leading up to the incident, he was laughed at by his parents when he presented these issues to them, he was ignored for treatment purposes, the parents had reason to believe that he was isolated due to the relocation of his best friend, and they had to have known, any reasonable parent would have known, that their son was not in a good head space. THEY BOUGHT HIM THE GUN ANYWAY . (Caps for emphasis) The difference between the two circumstances is the timing of the gun purchases. One through the general course of lifestyle and hobbying and the other as a gift during a time of mental problems.
I'm very conflicted about this. I worry about the slippery slope. This will become case law making it easier for another set of parents to be blamed for their child's misdeeds. Who can be certain about what goes on in another person's mind? The Murdaughs supposedly had fairly good relationships among themselves and look what happened to them. How many surprises have popped up in our own families that were totally unexpected? How well can we know anyone really? I hope they do some very deep thinking about this for the sake of those in the future who will be accused.
When it comes to guns yes you better be damn aware of what’s on your kids mind and at the very least have guns locked and stored securely as per the law and of which these parents did not do. They had guns around the house not locked and stored. Then they tried to run, hide and now they lie. They saw his drawings that morning and prior to that they had been told by their son on multiple occasions he wanted help for his emotional and mental health. They couldn’t be bothered. Didn’t want to take off work. They did not do a single thing that would have prevented this shooting. But could take time to buy him a gun and take him to the shooting range. They spent time and money on their hobbies like horseback riding lessons. Their gross negligence resulted in a mass shooting where children were murdered by their son with a gun they bought for him. Had they done all the things - locked up guns, didn’t buy him a gun he legally wasn’t allowed to have, taken him to doctors and mental health professionals, worked with the educators about his issues…. They did nothing but give him the means to murder his classmates and ignore him and his problems. Both the parents & their mass shooter boy need to be held accountable for these deaths.
Then lock up car keys, alcohol and drugs bc that’s coming. Not just civil suits but criminal charges for parents. Boy, oh boy. It was a given , no brained when I had kids esp when their friends came over.
I agree, so when you child steals your car keys and your car, can the parent be held responsible if the 16 y.o. son kills someone? Or, if your child has the money to illegally purchase alcohol, they find someone to buy it, give it to a friend and the friend dies of alcohol intoxication, are the parents held responsible for that? Kind of like Murdaugh and the boat case. I agree it cab be a slippery slope. Personally, I don't think the state proved their case to the degree we should make them, beyond a responsible doubt in Murdaugh and I think his due process was violated. But, that's just my opinion on that case. I just had so much doubt at the end of that trial I wouldn't have been able to convict.
The issue with these "parents" is they contributions to the ultimate crime by their neglect to seek care for their son despite evidence illustrating they did have concerns about his well-being and mental condition, and then going further and buying him a firearm that was ultimately used to murder his schoolmates in cold blood. This case would not be before any court if they had taken even the smallest steps toward addressing their own concerns about their son's condition. These people didn't care. They confided concerns to friends/acquaintances, but they never tried to get him help.
The heinous, premeditated acts of EC were NOT foreseeable by ANYONE. Not the parents, friends or family. Not even the trained, professional counselors at the school had any notion. Therefore, ONLY EC can be held responsible for his OWN actions.
Common sense dictates that you DO NOT AS A PARENT make a straw purchase for a mentally disturbed CHILD. Please watch the preliminary/evidentiary hearing for the parents in its entirety before making your conclusion. There is more to this then what you are hearing/seeing in this courtroom..
Why are other people in prison for supplying guns knowingly and unknowingly to people who commit crimes with the guns but the crumbly's should not be held accountable they need the same medicine as everyone else !!!!
Agree, the judges are acting like they should have done this and that and I bet they wish they had done things differently but they knew nothing about his thoughts to kill other people. they shouldn't be held accountable for not being a good parent
@@Lyddiebits I’m thinking you don’t fully understand the importance of this hearing and what will happen if these judges allow the case to proceed... and it has nothing to do with the Crumbley’s. F* the Crumbley’s, nobody is disputing they’re POS’s. There’s a bigger issue here. Those cases you’re hearing the lawyers cite to sway the judges opinions? Those are precedents set by other courts. When a precedent is set by a court; judges of future cases must follow that precedent when ruling on a case. Judges don’t rule on personal feeling, they rule on precedent. If these judges set the precedent and allow The Crumbley’s case to continue, every parent in America, no matter how good or bad, will be at risk if their child does something bad. So this is strictly about law and precedent, not emotions. When the judge said something along the lines “some smart lawyer will use this case for something less severe”, that’s what he’s talking about. Parents will be charged for anything and everything as long as the lawyer/ prosecutor is a good enough talker.
@@Lyddiebits I agree they definitely did NOT educate themselves on the full case before commenting. The parents not only intentionally purchased the gun as a gift for him.. but ignored pleas from the mentally I’ll son for them to place him in a psychiatric facility. He also had many video and journals of himself harming other animals and writing that the cries of their pain was his favorite part.. they chose to leave him alone 90% of the time and laughed it off when he told them he was having negative thoughts. So yes the parents are 100% just as much as fault as the son is for the lives that were stolen for no cause. The ones who were murdered didn’t bully him or treat him ill (not that that’s a reason for murdering) but he planned out the shooting with journal writings days PRIOR to the shooting, that he was going to shoot anyone he came across with his first victim being “pretty girl with a bright future” strictly because he is sick and severely mentally I’ll. There were MANY SIGNS and verbalizations that the parents blatantly ignored. Had they put him in a psychiatric ward when he asked this could have been avoided. Instead they were selfishly too focused on themselves and not wanting to be inconvenienced with their son’s mental issues.
Well done judges for saying basic good question ❓ like why didn't they look into his backpack 🎒 after threats to himself dang it poor bird 🐦 by the way let's not forget the innocent baby bird too
The key fact for me is simply this… the father hearing of the school shooting, and his first instinct is to think about his child and run home to check for the gun. As a parent if that’s your thought you are well aware the child is unstable.
I agree but he also didn’t pull the trigger. I think it’s unfair they’re charging these parents for the crimes of their child
💯💯💯
I agree & for the families of victims I want them charged buttttt. We don't charge families who let their kids drive & they end up getting smashed & killing a family. Let's say the parents knew said kid was going to a party also, it's sticky ground for our rights & it never getting this far in case law before.
Let the judges decide if they should go to trial. I'm excited to hear and learn the outcome
@Alycia Esposito EXACTLY 💯!!!! Plus, while they were at the school that day, NEITHER ONE of them CARED about their son, they BOTH WERE ONLY CONCERNED with getting BACK TO THEIR JOBS!!!!!! WTF kind of parenting IS THAT????!!!! 😑 THEN, we ALL hear about MONTHS earlier Ethan had TOLD his parents about his hallucinations & his "father" told him to "suck it up" & his "mother" LAUGHED at him????!!!!!! WTF????!!!!! They BOTH DESERVE to FACE these CRIMINAL CHARGES 💯 ALL THE WAY!!!!!!! IF they had NOT bought the gun for him, gotten him the mental health help he NEEDED & NOT been soooo EAGER to go back to their JOBS that day & taken him home, THIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED!!!!!!!! They DO HOLD RESPONSIBILITY for what THEIR son DID!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!!!! I'm just VERY WORRIED these IGNORANT judges AREN'T going to rule that way 😕 😔!!!!! But, IF they DON'T rule for the prosecution, I pray 🙏 that they APPEAL it 🙏 to the Supreme Court 🙏 🙏!!!!!!!
Well, the mother texted him saying "Don't Do It" that is foreseeable.
Great point
You're taking that out- of context
@Bosh she texted that to him as soon as she heard there was a shooting in progress at the school, because she knew it was most likely him that was the shooter.
@@Chuck44442 what other context is there?
@Bosh you’ve got to be shitting me 🤦♀️
Parents did not respond to boy's plea for help. Parents were negligent
Child abuse at the least
Does their negligence rise being charge for involuntary manslaughter? Did they tell him to take a gun to school? Did they know he took a gun to school previously and then didn't get rid of the gun? Did they know he had the gun that day and didn't tell the school?
I think the states theory is a stretch. What if his drawings were about guns but he brought a knife from home instead. Would the state still be charging the parents? Are they supposed to remove all sharp objects from the home?
Neglectful of their duty of care maybe. Complicit in the murders to the point of involuntary manslaughter when they didn't know he had the intent, or means to shoot anyone that day, I think not.
@@davidshumway9639 Hi David, no that doesn't make the parents guilty necessarily. This was just a comment on their concern for him. I've watched all the court video, which came out awhile ago. A lot of testimony. Also, holding them responsible would create a precedent. That could be misused. Your point is well taken.
Negligent … Really
They took time out of their busy day to buy him a lethal gun.
Maybe they couldn’t afford the cost of help.
Maybe all they could afford was a harmless little gun for him to play with!
David Shumway
Did they even know or recognize themselves as his parents?
The fact the parents went on the run afterwards (hiding in the warehouse with lots of money) shows they knew they could be potentially charged.
So guilt of consciousness
Not only lots of money, his money!!!
@@Monica-le9oi who is “his” - the child?
@@Monica-le9oihis money? Please explain because Ethan didn’t have money. They had sold some horses and that’s where the money came from.
@@tammyirwin703 Ethan had money in his bank account like 3000 I think and they took it .
He was not of the age to have a gun, yet the parents purchased it for him. Yes…they should be held responsible! Just as if they had purchased him a car at 12 years old and he goes out driving and kills someone. They should be held responsible.
@@TugIronChief Being Charged AS AN Adult Does Not Mean He Was Not A Minor.
Well well said.
They were asking to take him home,they refused! His backpack wasn't even searched by parents, or his locker! They both refused to cooperate with school officials! Enabled him
I thought that too at first, but I was surprised to find out at the probable cause hearing that the school counselor told them he could stay. He testified that he told the parents that Ethan shouldn’t be alone and he wasn’t a danger to others, only a potential danger to himself. I don’t think the parents are innocent, but I think the school is partially responsible as well. They’re trained professionals but they missed all of these red flags? The parents should have done better and the school should have too.
Ok what about parents that feed their children crap food such that they are overweight and get picked on …isn’t it the parents job to teach healthy living at home? This may be a positive trend..,but my heartbreak 💔 for any parent in their situation. They probably never imagined their son , their child…no. I couldn’t.
@@kaep7410 hit the nail on the head 💯%
The school is responsible as well then. They should not have asked they should have told an demanded they take him home.
How often do you search your child's room, backpack, school locker?
The dad went home and looked for the gun, they knew he could have a gun. The school has some responsibility and so do the parents imo.
Yes! I'm surprised the school is getting off. They might get sued later, but it wasn't just the parents being negligent.
Just how many texts, drawings, and behavioral issues does one parent need before they realize their child is screaming out for help? Apparently in this case these parents wouldn’t have known, or even cared their child needed help even if it slapped them right in the face. They need to be held responsible.
Exactly! And he was home alone a lot as Jennifer spent a lot of time at a barn with her horses and also spent time having an affair. Neither of them paid much attention to Ethan. They acted like he was an inconvenience. Ya have to wonder, if Ethan had grown up in a family that loved him and interacted with him, would he have turned out different. I think he would have. Both parents need to do prison time if only for child neglect which equals child abuse! And why was the gun where Ethan had access to it? Horrible excuses for parents. And you know they knew they were guilty since they tried to flee after the shooting.
sounds like a scary place to live with all those damn guns. I guess, as a Teaches, I'd be scared. everyone has more fear in a war zone
Didn’t they get him a gun?
@@johnwalbridge2430 Yes he wanted a gun so they got him a gun and then didn’t keep it secure. No kid needs a gun. Basically the parents put the murder weapon in Ethan’s hands.
@@johnwalbridge2430 Yes, his father purchased the gun because he was under-age to do so using his son's money. This case is a great example of the chickens of negligent parenting coming home to roost!
How is it that a bartender can be charged with manslaughter for “over serving” a customer who gets into their car drunk & kills somebody but these PARENTS can’t be charged for their child taking a gun they bought him to school & kills 4? Make that make sense!!! A bartender doesn’t have a moral or legal responsibility of a complete stranger who is LITERALLY & LEGALLY AN ADULT…but as parents we do have that obligation for our minor children! Parents are charged with truancy if their child skips school or allowed to stay home! Parents would be charged if they provided their children or other minors with alcohol but it’s up for debate rather they should be charged for giving their emotionally disturbed child a gun who again, takes it to school & kills 4 innocent children? People with authority need to stop placing a higher priority on the 2nd amendment than they do the life of a child. It’s sad, twisted and pathetic to say but the NRA, a politician, a lawyer or a judge will NOT do a damn thing until a gun takes the life of their innocent child as if the value of their child’s life is far greater with a higher importance than others. The same goes for the people in comment section saying the child did it, not the parents…you’d be saying the complete opposite if it was your child he killed at school that day knowing the gun was obtained by negligent parents & given to a child who may suffer from a mental illness. DO BETTER…cuz it could very well be your child the next time.
Well said!!
Very well put. A bartender generally doesn't know the person ordering drinks any where close to the degree a parent knows their child.A bartender doesn't know how the client holds their liquer or if they indulged in any intoxicant earlier. A parent should have some sort of idea of what is going on in their child's thoughts and life.
You had me with you until you started in on the 2nd Amendment. Adults who are sane are entitled to apply for gun ownership & I thank God we do!
This case has nothing to do with responsible, legal gun ownership. It has EVERYTHING to do with terrible, irresponsible & non-responsive parents who neglected their son.
They need to be prosecuted & serve time in prison just like the murderer they shaped & armed.
Obtaining guns is just way too easy. Mental health should definitely be evaluated prior to getting a gun for anyone.
The school professionals should be accountable
The school officials let him back in class knowing this information. They should be held accountable as well. Parents refused to take him out..... school should have NEVER allowed that!
From what I understand, that is apart of this case in a way. They were called to the school that morning for a violent drawing or message of some sort, and did not take him home or notify the school he had access to the gun or search his backpack to make sure he didn’t have the gun. So the school knew he was disturbed but nothing of the gun.
Trying to deflect the responsibility from the parents, to a school. They knew they bought a gun. They knew they had not secured it adequately - since he took it to school from their home, loaded. They knew he had mental issues long before they even bought the gun - he was telling them he heard and saw demons. The school did not know these things. They had vet care for their horses, yet the child was not taken to a doctor, even before the shooting when the boy was delusional.
I disagree. They called the parents in, the parents refused to take him home. Feel bad for the schools, because it seems you must have the knowledge of a police officer, the education of a teacher and if you say or do anything to offend, you can lose your job. The problems of violence in school has reached an unusual level requiring far more education about the laws and rights to search someone’s belongings etc. A kid can get violent towards others, but if a teacher grabs him too hard, holds the, down the wrong way they lose their jobs. We need special schools for problem children to attend where special training can address it appropriately.
School could be liable but they didn't have all of this information. They didn't know the murderous kid was in possession of his own firearm
and if he was refused back in class and nothing happened the teacher would be terminated for that judgment. It's all so clear looking back, it's hard to do what 'should' have been done prior due to catch 22 that the school and staff would be criticized no mater what they did.
Yes they should have paid a little more attention to their son and gotten him help instead of being so detached
These people treated their horses better than their own kid. Their horses had all of their medical needs tended to and their manes groomed & brushed.
It’s so awful how neglectful they were to him. What he did was devastating and inexcusable, but he never deserved to be neglected by his own parents.
I have to agree with you but teenagers are so moody they may have thought just giving him his space is what he wanted. It’s so easy to berate them from my I phone.
@@tinawindham6958 No They Neglected Him. The Parents Only Cared About Themselves.
These parents were negligent at so many levels. They literally put the gun in his hands. The school told them to take him home. Now they should have INSISTED but they did tell them he was a danger and showed them the drawings. Why no one checked his backpack then is beyond me. But this attorney trying argue that the parents didn’t know is a lie. They wouldn’t miss an hour of work to devote to his care. And look at how it ended up. They couldn’t be bothered.
“A danger to himself”
I think if he was supposed to be “taken home” he would’ve been.
Absolutely they should be held accountable.
Yes… if they hadn’t purchased him a gun knowing he was unstable the shooting wouldn’t not have happened… it is partly the parents fault..
Who would do that? Especially if they thought he was suicidal..
Kids steal guns, 2….not excusing anyone but it does happen
@@tinawindham6958 yes kids steal guns but when the parents are called up to the school and they still do nothing it becomes the parents fault especially when their have been previous ignored warning signs..
Yes they were flagrantly wrong and awful parents. They gave him the weapon he used to kill people.
Fr people r forgetting the parents r the one who bought him the gun
How many kids have been bought guns? Plenty in sure in rural areas and whatnot.
@@terriesales if a parent that buys a lethal weapon for their unstable kid that within days of getting said weapon shoots up a school....yes straight to jail. These people are terrible they neglected that boy who was asking them for help.
I mean how stupid and disconnected can 2 parents be? Was it always all about them? YES!
@@momac7230He was BEGGING for help! They are negligent and if I was a parent of a child that died because of this, I’d be damned if they were not held responsible. I’d raise holy hell!
Hearing the defense lawyer refer to the court as “you guys” twice in under 15 seconds 🤦🏻♀️
Agreed I think there is something askew here
These two ladies were not only I’ll prepared but their intelligence regarding this issue is extraordinary
She appears incompetent, insecure in job to defend and almost professionally immature for an attorney. When she speaks I cringe
@@booba-doll8281 me too!
Kids were out of control when I was young 25 years ago but they are on another level these days. Morally bankrupt
It's you older karens that are the problem
I was young 25 years ago, carrying a clear backpack in school because of school gun violence. This issue isn’t new, or “gen z”
YES!!! The kid was young, he is their responsibility!!!
@@TugIronChief no it doesn’t. If 3 adults break into a home and one man murders the occupant, they all go down for murder. It doesn’t matter if the other 2 didn’t know he had a gun or if one wasn’t even in the house.
The parents bought him the gun he legally couldn’t legally own
The parents are both reckless in this. Mom was busy having an affair. Dad was busy trying to deliver food. They couldn’t be bothered with this kid. They both were extremely detached. This entire situation is gut wrenching to think about Ethan is a little baby, and he will spend many years, or the rest of his life in an institution, as we have no idea how his future will play out. That kid cried out for help more than enough times. He was neglected. He would text us parents when he was home alone, and expressed to them his fears. Again, they didn’t care. Sometimes they wouldn’t even respond to him, sometimes when they did, they would say anything to get him to stop texting them. It’s just a sad situation. There are far too many facts to not face consequences. They are the parents. Bottom line.
So they should go to prison if kid kills people? Wtf are you talking about?
@@jamie91433 yes absolutely. With these facts in this case that was clearly stated in this hearing, yes ABSOLUTELY these parents should go to jail for their part, or lack there of, better said. The parents were WAY more aware than the school, they both not only had the knowledge of his mental issues in March, they were the ones who knew beyond a doubt this boy not only had a gun that the dad himself purchased for him, but mom had taken him to gun range with that same firearm to shoot with him. Not to mention they BOTH were well aware that the minor had COMPLETE access to that firearm without supervision being required… (info that the school DID NOT HAVE) the lack of both parents of their legal obligations to the safety of this minor is indeed criminal, n yes ABSOLUTELY they BOTH should face consequences. With all the red flags in this situation it was clearly on one of two path ways, the kid would have committed Suicide or kill others. The question was when n who. To be totally frank, I’m surprised it wasn’t the parents themselves who weren’t killed instead. N quite frankly… i probably would have been happier with that outcome. These parents that belittle, laugh at, neglect, n all around mentality abuse their children shouldn’t be allowed to have kids much less live a carefree life, in my humble opinion. (Not a popular opinion, ehhh I honestly don’t care)
@@jamie91433 yes, they should. They put the gun in his hands. He is a child.
The parents both have criminal records
oh wow Ethan is a little baby ,you do realise that that kid is 16 and blew away classmates with a gun he knew he shouldn't have had ,thats no baby that is an evil little shite who should be locked up and the key thrown away.
Absolutely!! If they had actually parented, their kid probably wouldn't have done what he did. It's about damn time parents are held accountable!!
Why wasn’t the fire arm in a locked and secure safe place in the home? That fire arm was obviously accessible to EC, which that is the parents responsibly when having a fire arm in the home, mostly with a minor in the home, and one with mental issues.
The code to the gun safe was 0000. Unacceptable.
@@kalyn7220 Exactly…not a hard code to crack….right? Gun safety clearly was not exercised by the minor’s parents.
The gun was his they bought it for him of course he knew the code if they paid attention enough to understand he didn't need to know the code. It could help if s kid were home alone and in danger a home invasion or anything he was clearly unstable they were to busy to see how unstable he was
Are your steak knives locked up? What if you kid killed someone with a steak knife should you go to jail? geeze people grow a brain. Put down the pitchforks of rage please. Maybe your kid posted someone on facebook that cause another kid to die, should they take you to jail?
@@kalyn7220 In Michigan your house is the storage, no laws on having to lock a firearm inside of a locked home. Do you keep your car keys inside a locked safe? Do you keep the rubbing alcohol in a locked safe?
A kid could take your car keys and run people over hopped up on the booze he took from your fridge.
Should we now arrest Kalyn now before that happens?
If you purchase and fill out paperwork for a minor to own a gun then you should be fully responsible and liable. Especially a minor with mental health issues.
If they didn’t recognize the MH issues they are still liable since they are the parents.
As a giant 2A supporter and second amendment absolutist and a parent of a 12-year-old girl. I feel that since the crime was perpetrated with a handgun and in the state of Michigan you must be 21 years of age to purchase or own a handgun that yes this falls under parental negligence. Had this been perpetrated with a long gun I would feel differently
I'm curious and not here to bait or argue. AT ALL. Simply curious, Do you think the mental health of the person regardless the type of gun should also have impact on charging the parents? Thank you in advance for responding if you choose to.
@@TheVuduYuDu certainly it does especially if that child has asked for help and it isn't/wasn't given.
@@jenncan6218 I agree. Thank you for responding though. I am really curious what the OP's response might be.
@@TheVuduYuDu I realize no one asked me. But, I think you make a very good and valid point. Any child who has exhibited mental or emotional challenges/issues shouldn’t be given a Gun period and instead should have been given therapy. At the very least he should’ve been given more attention from the parents to help him through such a difficult time. He had just lost his best friend and feeling alone and ostracized already. To head that his parents simply told him to suck it up and laughed at his pain and suffering, breaks my heart for both of them. Hindsight is always 20/20. Incredibly difficult situation that I’m glad I don’t have to argue or judge and so very blessed to have never been put in that situation.
@@janeygirl6081 Please don't think I was criticizing you. I understand that anyone can and will post and I have no problem with it. Especially when it is well reasoned and well said.
With that being said, I agree 100% with everything you wrote above. This situation is so disturbing. I also think that that level of neglect and really just poor parenting is more common than we think. I shudder to think how that dysfunction will impact society let alone the children having to live through this. Just sad.
I’m sorry, if I’m called to the school because staff finds a math sheet with a drawing of a gun with the words “The thoughts won’t stop, help me” and “blood everywhere” on them among other things, whether or not my child’s ever shown a mental issue a day in his life before, he’s coming home with me. My mind is ALREADY running through a series of “foreseeable outcomes” and I don’t need to hear that the school psychologist thinks he may be suicidal because I’m way ahead of you. We are leaving because something’s up and it’s time for a one on one with my kid. Period. Add to that that I already know he owns a gun AND has been mentally troubled prior to? That’s my legal duty right there.
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Amen!!!
They should prosecute the damn school !! Why didn’t they look in that kids backpack!!! The damn teacher had it in her hands!!! And don’t give me that shit about they aren’t allowed to. That is 100% bullshit
The school bears some responsibility, but ultimately it was the parent's responsibility.
I can tell you that disturbed children almost always give screaming clues to their need to hurt themselves or others. To say this was not foreseeable is wrong. People just weren't SEEING OR LOOKING AT HIM.. AND barring teens going hunting with Dad, and taking weapons out of the home gunsafe TOGETHER, minors should Not have access to guns. Just My humble opinions.
Defense attorney refers to the judges as "you guys." One judge corrects her. She immediately says "you guys" again. They were also told not to mention Ethan by name. Yet they did, how many times? Clown show defense.
I Noticed that right away too “you guys”
Yes this really bugged me!!
Unprofessional behaviour
YES THEY SHOULD !!
This Christy agrees with you Christy :)
You bet these lousy parents need to held accountable & prosecuted. They bought the gun for him, took him to target practice, knowing this kid was depressed, they failed to secure the gun & failed to tend to their son when warned of his violent fantasies.
Absolutely! Parents are supposed to be responsible for whatever their kid does before turning 18. Even good parents suffer from what their children do sometimes, these parents didn’t even care to try.
These are the worst lawyers ever. It’s a parents #1 JOB to know that stuff about their kid. 🤦🏽♀️
False
@@jburt552 if your kid breaks someone’s window, YOU have to pay for it. Kids can’t even legally sign a contract until they are 18, parents have to go-sign. Why? Because they are LEGALLY responsible for their kids and their actions. Period.
I understand that you can’t be with your minor children 24/7, but you certainly don’t purchase a fire arm for that minor and then not make sure that it’s in a safe and secure place where that minor child cannot access it, mostly one with mental issues. Irresponsible as a parent!!
Using this logic - every school shooting would result in parents being charged.
When someone has a dog off leach and bites another , we are responsible for the that person's injuries. If our child is involved in a car accident, the parents are responsible for the damages. If our child causes damage to property, we are responsible. The parents are just as much responsible for their child here.
They are negligent in their responsibility to protect him and others.
Thank you FOX2 for making this available to us.
I think the legal issue is so interesting here. If the state wants to charge the shooter as an adult, how can the state turn around and say the parents are culpable for the shooter intentional acts, as a child?
Agree 100%. If the parents are responsible then the school is just as responsible. Any school would have checked his backpack as a precautionary step. 2nd they allowed him to stay in class in fear of him being alone and suicidal. The school should have stripped him of his backpack, checked his locker and kept a close eye on him. The precedent this will set is above and beyond. The prosecutor in this case has made this a political stunt. We as parents aren’t expected to monitor cell phone data, journals, ect. The foresight wasn’t there. The parents didn’t pull the trigger or have any intention of doing so. Intentional manslaughter is a stiff price to pay when your child commits heinous crimes. At this point he’s been charged as an adult and convicted as an adult. IMO there is no culpability connected to the parents. EC committed the crime, he’s responsible. Everyone from the school, to the licensed psychologist, the principal, and counselors should be charged and that is a slippery slope that I don’t believe we should be creating new laws for. If the prosecutor didn’t make this so political we wouldn’t be listening to this case.
The same way straw purchasers get charged after criminals shoot someone...duh
So when a judge releases a murderer, rapist, and child molestor and they continue their crimes - that's ok?
The school as well as the parents should be charged. Also, both these defense attorneys are horrible. Of course they are guilty but, god find someone better.
the school did not buy him a gun and not keep it secured. The school did not know he was having delusions or hallucinations and had asked for help. The school may have some fraction of responsibility, but the parents were the instigator of this tragedy by buying him a gun and not making sure it was secured, AND NOT GETTING HIM HELP WHEN HE SAID HE WAS HAVING DELUSIONS.
And the female attorney for the state is straight up a thunder C and is out from blood from the moment it happened.
If you “raise” a child that goes out and wreaks havoc on society, you most definitely need to be held accountable. Maybe if people knew there’d be repercussions, we wouldn’t have so many shi**y parents 🤷♀️
I thought the general rule is that children are tried as adults when they commit a serious violent felony and are 16. Or if they knowingly or recklessly commit a felony while performing an adult activity, like wielding a gun or driving a car…I feel like the prosecutor could have made a much stronger argument here. This was foreseeable because the parents purchased their minor son a gun and allowed him possession and control over it, while knowing of his mental distress. He used that gun and not another gun because it was his, and he may not have done this if he didn’t have his own gun unlawfully!
Gotta be black to get the full extent of the law
He was 15
@@margaretchandler6194 I’m joking cases vary it’s just how it goes from court room to court room.
@@margaretchandler6194 correct, and he was unlawfully wielding a gun which he believed was his own because his parents purchased it for him. The fact that he’s being tried as an adult despite being 15 at the time demonstrates how depraved his acts were, and he wouldn’t have committed them had his parents not purchased him a gun. Which makes them the proximate cause of his actions. I think the prosecution dropped the ball on this point 😔
I thought he brought up the right things but struggled with responding to the (sometimes silly!) scenarios or issues the judges were arguing.
How many get arrested for supplying the gun used in a murder ???? Alot !!!! I have seen many people go to jail for buying or giving someone a gun that was used in a murder or any gun crime so why should it be different for the crumbly's
Tell me one case? Please!
They both absolutely should.
You express feelings and morals, not the criminal legal and civil legal responsabilities that are different.The son was the criminal,the parents,the civil responsibles of giving him a weapon.There is not criminal intention in the parents to violate criminal law.(Mens Rea)
@@horacefrancou9802 Which law states that parents in that state can give their children handguns? You express a lack of knowledge.
@@horacefrancou9802 correct
Not only were they grossly negligent, this will set a precedent if they move forward with the charges.
Don't the judges have a duty to the safety of the public? Stop releasing murderers, rapists, a molestors.
Yes! The parents are responsible! They clearly knew of their son’s troubles and chose to do nothing. They even purchased him a gun knowing , they let him attend school knowing he had problems and was acting/displaying threatening behaviors. They NEED TO HELD ACCOUNTABLE!
This has to stop !
Justice must be served !
Yes ..plus they both as parents didn’t listen to there sons cry for help as he knew something wasn’t right in how he was thinking 🤔..
As a mother of an Autistic son with personality issues who is now an adult, but even now I accept responsibility for him and I have 3 other grown up children but even when they was young I was on it 24/7 it was exhausting but I accepted it and helped him come to terms with his issues, I didn't need a Dr to tell me he had issues I recognised it at 3 years of age and got him the help and support he needed I certainly didn't buy him a gun . Yes they should be held responsible 100%.
Well done! 🎉❤
Parenting is hard. So is adulting.
Respect your commitment. Think these two lack common sense, and unfortunately that’s not uncommon. No pun intended. Meaning, find it hard to believe they will end up in jail for their ignorance. Buying him a gun, not sure. They bought, so it’s registered to the parents. I’d question how the gun was stored, where and why they bought it? Also, why they didn’t seek mental health. So many questions still unanswered. I’ve seen plenty of videos online of kids using guns at target practice, but each state has their own laws. We shall see what happens. But, maybe the laws should specify kids cannot shoot guns…period.
@@tinawindham6958 it is definitely hard but incredibly simple as well. Takes mom or dad to say Hey how you feeling inside today? We are overly concerned with how we feel and it’s time to build a better world and parent the children of our planet.
@@terriesales your comment is extremely legit but imo it comes down to parenting. My 15 yo son is a firearm child safety junior instructor. He teaches safety. He teaches accountability. He teaches responsibility. Having firearms in our home with a young son it was a no brainer. And even though we trust our son’s judgment, the only access to all firearms in our home is with mine or my husbands handprint. Makes sense and worth every penny of effort. Be well.
They are the last people on earth to want to see this happen? She’s out of her mind. If a school called me and told me this I would be terrified for his life, since the way it sounds, everyone seemed concerned for suicide.
Yes, I can say why I would do, no I don’t have to be in this situation. The parents’ actions are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO far off base, I don’t know 1 single parent that would not have held onto their child for dear life if they’d been given this news.
Ethan’s parents were like “oh well, he’s staying here. This sounds like a you problem not an us problem” and they left him there. They never bothered with him. They ignores him. They gave him a gun. They went home to check for it.
You’re right, Ms Lawyer, they probably didn’t think he’d shoot his classmates BUT they definitely thought he’d shoot himself.
They need to be held accountable. Period.
I agree. In one of her statements,the mother’s reference to suicide gave me shivers. It seemed almost as if suicide would free her of the kid sh repeatedly called wired.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 well said! I’m exactly where you are, except, if I just bought my kid a gun (which would never happen anyway), I think I would be just as worried about everyone in that school as well as my kid.
This is a situation when you take the kid straight home and have a long talk while scheduling an appointment with a mental health professional ASAP! Then again, we believe in therapy in our family, it is important for kids to have adults they can talk to and if they don’t feel comfortable saying it to their parents, there should be another responsible option available.
Kids are nuanced, they can’t be raised like Sims, just getting the bare basics.
Imo once that child was deemed to be tried as an adult, the parents are no longer responsible for that "adult's" actions. You cant have it both ways. Either try a child or try an adult but you cant bifurcate the status of a person once labeled by a law/court/attorneys.
The parents should be tried for neglect parenting not manslaughter if they try the son as an adult
Dang Vicky that's a strong argument it's a shame the 2 defense lawyers didn't mention.
Hell, yeah. Get the parents. I hate people who give birth to kids and then let them loose on an unsuspecting community at the first sign of trouble.
Well we certainly know how one Judge on this panel will be ruling…
I was thinking the same thing. The one on the right. Well that would be our left their right.
Fat old rich white man!
Yes it's not the school's responsibility! His parents will go to trial, or there is no justice. 😔
Boy, this young lady needs to check her notes because the judges 👨⚖️ are picking her apart 🙄
Parents have endless responsibillities,, to their children and to those that their children's actions will effect!
So if you kill someone today should your parents (if alive) be jailed? If they are dead should they be dug up with the corpses put in jail? you sound insane.
YESSIR! They are guilty both B4 and after the fact. In total, nothing would have happened had it not been for their AWFUL parenting and supervision.
How do u know he couldn’t have stolen a gun or bought one on the streets
They failed to secure weapons in THEIR home. Period!!!!!!!!!
Yes. I think it’s time parents are held accountable. This would also force parents to change their parenting skills. I know people hate this, but it’s time to bring back some of the “old” school ways back into society and make the humane race more accountable for their actions and that include how you parent your children.
You cannot mix causalities here : civil causality is about parents' responsability (father rsponsability) about their child behaviour.Criminal causality is about the child's responsability (charged or not as an adult) in a criminal act.
@@ashleyseeley5570 good point
@@ashleyseeley5570 But as an example, in the Murdaugh case, Paul is the son who drunkenly crashed the boat owned by the father, and a young woman was killed. Buster, the older son knowingly and purposefully gave his underage brother his ID for the purpose of buying alcohol, which he did and that alcohol led to the crash. Prior to his death, Paul was the only one being criminally charged. The father who owned the boat, and the brother who gave him his ID to buy alcohol underage, are both being charged civilly, not criminally.
Yes they should stand trial
The school should be held responsible too
The Parents were not there for their son. It’s evident he was depressed hallucinations etc.
They knew he liked dark things too..told his mom he thought a demon was in the house, throwing his clothes around..my kid would immediately be getting help
I have demons at my house…clothes everywhere. I thought it was the dogs but I see how it could b those damn demons.
I agree but are most parents of killers there?? Probably not… you can’t just pick and chose when you want to hold people responsible. If that was the case most parents of the previous shooters would be in jail.
Sadly there was a girl who went to that school and was there at the time of the shootings. She went on to MI State and was also present during those shooting. How could she possibly not have long term issues?
Thank you for streaming.
Guilty. These are not parents. At all.
I didn't agree with them being held responsible *until I found out he has issues AND THEY GAVE HIM ACCESS TO A STRAP.*
If only the parents spent as much time with their ONLY child as they did with their HORSE.
AND her boyfriend!!!
You bought your child a gun... That child took the gun and killed people... Rot in jail. When I was a kid, I shot out the neighbors window with my b.b. gun.... My dad had to pay for the window. I know this is apples and oranges here, but
Negligence from the parents in absurdum! I felt so sorry for the boy 😭.
Time to face the concequences
I suppose the negligence started when they were underage ofc?!
The defense stating that the school could have looked at the bag too is not a defense. Those who birthed the monster have a bigger responsibility than the school. School and parents both should be charged. School will definitely be sued in civil court.
no not at all, but if they are going to hold these parents accountable then how can they charge him as an adult? Makes zero sense , they better start charging all these other parents out here when their kids get in trouble. I dont care of the crime. Charge all the parents or none.
what happens is the court will pick and choose what parents should be held accountable for the kids actions . this is not about just a shooting . I am sorry for the family's
Courts have already been doing that. Probably as long as there has been a Federal, State, County court systems to do so. Please go back and watch the preliminary/evidentiary hearing for the parents to get a better understanding of this process.
Yes, there were several major red flags in the months preceding the shooting.
The mother owned horses ($$$$) and attended to all of their medical needs, but brushed off EC’s obvious need for a mental health evaluation.
They also have a post on social media specifically saying that they bought the gun for EC. It was being locked up until Christmas. It was a straw purchase.
When the judge admonished defense the attorney right out of the gate for addressing them as "you guys" vs "the court" she did it immediately again. Come on women..listen! As professionals we already have a hard enough road without adding to it ourselves
You can't serve liquor to your child to the point that it makes them ill. But by all means allow them to freely access dangerous weapons of all sorts. Go America!
Their behavior was appalling and criminally negligent. There were numerous warning signs they ignored, even way before the day of the shootings.
My parents ignored my diagnosis of anxiety at age 8. I was later dx with CPTSD. However I struggled I never hurt anyone but myself. My parents we’re definitely negligent.
Looking at this subjectively, these lawyers could have done a better job. They should have pushed the fact that the school had trained professionals tell them that their son was ok to remain in school that day and that the parents, who didn’t have the same knowledge base, trusted what the counselor was telling them.
(That’s not to say the parents didn’t do anything wrong. I’m just looking at this solely from a legal standpoint.)
Yes!!! Not only them but all parent/parents that foist their rabid kids on the public. It's no different than charges against the owner of a dangerous dog running loose.
Parents failed. School failed. Kids failed. Classmates failed.
System failed
the system fails many
Classmates fail?
Yes, in this instance they should
*ASK YOUR CHILDREN EVERY DAY* How was school. Was everyone nice to you?
I had *four* babies and *never* failed to do this. When they told me someone was mean I *handled* it.
Yes they both should stand trial for their son since they bought the weapon. Knowing he had a serious problem.
Those lawyers were not up to argue before these judges, way too immature and without wisdom. They are making up scenarios when they should be pointing to other cases…so unprofessional, calling judges “you guys,”walking in front of the podium, using minors names.
I don't understand what these judges are talking about. He is a MINOR. You can not give your minor child a gun who you knowingly is mentally unstable and not make sure it's in a safe secure place, When he's not hunting or whatever the f they bought a gun for a minor in the first place. Absolutely not. your responsible for your CHILD when they're still a f CHILD. period. They got him the gun that's a HUGE FACTOR. if they hadn't I wouldn't feel the same. Period. If he went behind their back with all this that's completely different. But that's just not what happened.
Right, if they gave him alcohol knowingly and let him drive, they would be responsible. They gave him a gun and did not secure it. They are responsible.
@@blitzmom2674 right.
Convict Jennifer and James Crumbley 🎉
The unpacking was overwhelming, and the defense was well-prepared for the judge's questions. The judge said, “you charge him as an adult when he starts shooting!” I was stunned! 😅
If the parents did something about all the warning signs …like any normal parent would have this tragedy wouldn’t have happened
oh really, that kid was a little shit he is 16, so knows right from wrong, how many of you all can put your hand on your heart and believe that this would never happen to you ,
It might still have happened, but if they had done even one thing to try and get him help, these "parents" wouldn't be charged.
@@mydogky I wouldn’t buy a gun for my troubled son .. I would get him some help like he was asking for !
If the parents knew their son was unstable and did not responsibly keep their guns locked up and did not get him the help he needed then why would he buy him a gun I believe they are as responsible as there child his journal shows that it was premeditated maybe they should have acted like parents
School fail completely parents number one school number two failure
Yes the parents should be held liable as well!
This needs to go to a Jury to decide.
@@TugIronChief you sound like a dem
@@TugIronChief They were arrested and charged with a crime. dems want to release all criminals. So, you sound like a dem.
@@TugIronChief wth are you talking about? we don't let criminals go in this country. are you out of your f mind?
@@TugIronChief how about negligence?
@@TugIronChief The Law will determine that. Break the Law and suffer the consequences. So go defund your own imaginary Law. This is USA Law. Happy Trails Commy. 🤧
Troubled child sells drugs, said drug kills the buyer of the drug should the parents go to jail for manslaughter?
There are a lot of amazing parents who have kids that completely fail. They are in prison , dead from drugs. In most cases it isn’t the parents.
This is true. We all know families like your comment. But these people were NOT amazing parents. They spent all their free time at the horse barns without their child. They ignored his pleas for help. They left firearms unsecured. They need to have repercussions for their horrible decisions.
@@kalyn7220 You know, parent are allowed to have hobbies. But what parents are not allowed to do is vet their horses, but not take their son to a doctor when he is complaining of hallucinations or delusions. If they had $$ to pay for vet care for the horses, they had $$ to pay for his mental health care. And they certainly should not have bought him a gun when he was delusional. LEaving it unsecured and ignoring that drawing - which begged for help - just confirmed the negligence.
@@blitzmom2674 💯.
True look at kohbergers writings as a teen, yet don't think they knew about it..
@@arizonadreaming4183 He told his parents that he was seeing demons, and that he was afraid to be alone in the house. His parents knew he was mentally disturbed.
The fact that he was convinced as an adult would have been says it all.. you can't have it both ways... give a fifteen year old life without parol because he is 100% accountable for his actions and then turn around and blame the parents.. it's one or the other in my opinion!!
Had the school insisted he leave that morning, the parents wouldn't have had a choice. He has also been charged as an adult. Charging the parents is unnecessary at that point. If they believe he was mature and intelligent enough to be charged and convicted as an adult then the parents should not be held responsible unless they intentionally allowed him access to the gun.
The Crumbley's do not have very good lawyers or I just do not see the points they are trying to make. I also do not think the Crumbley's gave two hoots about their son or any responsibity for him. The mother's admonition to her son that she was not angry he was looking to purchase ammunition at school with a LOL and comment that next time he should not get caught seems negligent to me.
They are great lawyers and they actually have a valid argument. They’re Public defenders. They’re working with what they have.
What in heavens name .. why didn't that school or the parents look in that book bag. That's not right the bookbag was heavy omg😊
Prosecutors… if the parents didn’t fail at raising their child, he probably would not have become a murderer in such an egregious case that he had to be tried as an adult. Being tried does not equal “legal adulthood”!
@@TugIronChief actually, courts do it every single day, it’s just usually the financial burden of the minor rather than charges pressed against them for their wrongdoing. A judge can make any decision they feel is proper, and they can set precedent.
@@TugIronChief and they can decide to set precedent. Period. Doesn’t matter what anyone thinks should happen, the judges will come back with their decision to try them or not, and that will be final. 🤷🏽♀️ sounds like you’re scared
@@TugIronChief this won’t even be seen by the Supreme Court. And your religion has no place in government or the justice system. It goes by laws, not your book of fairy tales. 🤦🏽♀️ yep. Please don’t reproduce, if you did, don’t buy your spawns weapons, you may be sitting there one day and your gods won’t be able to get you out of it either.
The problem is, is every parent probably Should be tried if their kid goes crazy cause they didn’t “hug them as a child” doesn’t seem quite right as wrong as the parents are/were.
@@Remmysage that’s not really what is being questioned. The standard would be “if CPS were called prior to this incident, would they take away the child”? If the answer is no because what the parents are doing is to the best of their ability.
In this case, the kid had empty and half full bottles of liquor all over his room, and dead animal bodies. They most likely wouldn’t get through half of the interview before deciding that the parents are too negligent and foster parents or a group home would be more stable. The premeditating circumstances of this kid’s childhood made all the difference.
Why would the judge her to stay behind the podium?
Trying to rattle her nerves. You can hear it in her voice she's as nervous as hell to start with.
It’s a respect and safety factor - she had already called them “you guys”
@@kirstenhansen9533 Yep that too.
At approximately 53 minutes in, the judge mentions families that have guns as hobbies and asks what the difference is between a family like that having a child who might fall into a depression over incidents in his life etc.
The lawyer for the state had a very strong argument he could have used in this instance: what is the difference between that family and this instance?
For me the argument I would have made, were I a lawyer, is simple: the difference is in the order of the events.
The fictional family used guns together as a family, had been doing so for the lifetime of the child, and the child was familiar with and comfortable with guns in a healthy way.
In this case, EC exhibited mental health issues for months leading up to the incident, he was laughed at by his parents when he presented these issues to them, he was ignored for treatment purposes, the parents had reason to believe that he was isolated due to the relocation of his best friend, and they had to have known, any reasonable parent would have known, that their son was not in a good head space.
THEY BOUGHT HIM THE GUN ANYWAY . (Caps for emphasis)
The difference between the two circumstances is the timing of the gun purchases. One through the general course of lifestyle and hobbying and the other as a gift during a time of mental problems.
I'm very conflicted about this. I worry about the slippery slope. This will become case law making it easier for another set of parents to be blamed for their child's misdeeds. Who can be certain about what goes on in another person's mind? The Murdaughs supposedly had fairly good relationships among themselves and look what happened to them. How many surprises have popped up in our own families that were totally unexpected? How well can we know anyone really? I hope they do some very deep thinking about this for the sake of those in the future who will be accused.
When it comes to guns yes you better be damn aware of what’s on your kids mind and at the very least have guns locked and stored securely as per the law and of which these parents did not do. They had guns around the house not locked and stored. Then they tried to run, hide and now they lie. They saw his drawings that morning and prior to that they had been told by their son on multiple occasions he wanted help for his emotional and mental health. They couldn’t be bothered. Didn’t want to take off work. They did not do a single thing that would have prevented this shooting. But could take time to buy him a gun and take him to the shooting range. They spent time and money on their hobbies like horseback riding lessons. Their gross negligence resulted in a mass shooting where children were murdered by their son with a gun they bought for him. Had they done all the things - locked up guns, didn’t buy him a gun he legally wasn’t allowed to have, taken him to doctors and mental health professionals, worked with the educators about his issues…. They did nothing but give him the means to murder his classmates and ignore him and his problems. Both the parents & their mass shooter boy need to be held accountable for these deaths.
Then lock up car keys, alcohol and drugs bc that’s coming. Not just civil suits but criminal charges for parents. Boy, oh boy. It was a given , no brained when I had kids esp when their friends came over.
I agree, so when you child steals your car keys and your car, can the parent be held responsible if the 16 y.o. son kills someone? Or, if your child has the money to illegally purchase alcohol, they find someone to buy it, give it to a friend and the friend dies of alcohol intoxication, are the parents held responsible for that? Kind of like Murdaugh and the boat case.
I agree it cab be a slippery slope.
Personally, I don't think the state proved their case to the degree we should make them, beyond a responsible doubt in Murdaugh and I think his due process was violated. But, that's just my opinion on that case. I just had so much doubt at the end of that trial I wouldn't have been able to convict.
The issue with these "parents" is they contributions to the ultimate crime by their neglect to seek care for their son despite evidence illustrating they did have concerns about his well-being and mental condition, and then going further and buying him a firearm that was ultimately used to murder his schoolmates in cold blood.
This case would not be before any court if they had taken even the smallest steps toward addressing their own concerns about their son's condition.
These people didn't care. They confided concerns to friends/acquaintances, but they never tried to get him help.
The school counselor and principal had major responsibilities here!! Why is NOONE ADDRESSING THIS!!??
The heinous, premeditated acts of EC were NOT foreseeable by ANYONE. Not the parents, friends or family. Not even the trained, professional counselors at the school had any notion. Therefore, ONLY EC can be held responsible for his OWN actions.
The gun should have been locked up regardless of the minor's mental health issues. If my gun is not on my person it is locked up. Period.
Common sense dictates that you DO NOT AS A PARENT make a straw purchase for a mentally disturbed CHILD. Please watch the preliminary/evidentiary hearing for the parents in its entirety before making your conclusion. There is more to this then what you are hearing/seeing in this courtroom..
They straw purchased a hand gun (illegal af) for their mentally ill child.
Why are other people in prison for supplying guns knowingly and unknowingly to people who commit crimes with the guns but the crumbly's should not be held accountable they need the same medicine as everyone else !!!!
I disagree. His parents are responsible.
“Will you stay behind the podium please”. This attorney needs to be schooled in professionalism.
NOOO why SHOULD THEY BE..... Was the PARENTS HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE COLUMBINE MASSACRE
Agree, the judges are acting like they should have done this and that and I bet they wish they had done things differently but they knew nothing about his thoughts to kill other people. they shouldn't be held accountable for not being a good parent
I'm thinking both of y'all don't really know about this case. The parents bought their kid the gun.
@@Lyddiebits I’m thinking you don’t fully understand the importance of this hearing and what will happen if these judges allow the case to proceed... and it has nothing to do with the Crumbley’s.
F* the Crumbley’s, nobody is disputing they’re POS’s. There’s a bigger issue here.
Those cases you’re hearing the lawyers cite to sway the judges opinions? Those are precedents set by other courts. When a precedent is set by a court; judges of future cases must follow that precedent when ruling on a case. Judges don’t rule on personal feeling, they rule on precedent.
If these judges set the precedent and allow The Crumbley’s case to continue, every parent in America, no matter how good or bad, will be at risk if their child does something bad.
So this is strictly about law and precedent, not emotions.
When the judge said something along the lines “some smart lawyer will use this case for something less severe”, that’s what he’s talking about. Parents will be charged for anything and everything as long as the lawyer/ prosecutor is a good enough talker.
@@Lyddiebits I agree they definitely did NOT educate themselves on the full case before commenting. The parents not only intentionally purchased the gun as a gift for him.. but ignored pleas from the mentally I’ll son for them to place him in a psychiatric facility. He also had many video and journals of himself harming other animals and writing that the cries of their pain was his favorite part.. they chose to leave him alone 90% of the time and laughed it off when he told them he was having negative thoughts. So yes the parents are 100% just as much as fault as the son is for the lives that were stolen for no cause. The ones who were murdered didn’t bully him or treat him ill (not that that’s a reason for murdering) but he planned out the shooting with journal writings days PRIOR to the shooting, that he was going to shoot anyone he came across with his first victim being “pretty girl with a bright future” strictly because he is sick and severely mentally I’ll. There were MANY SIGNS and verbalizations that the parents blatantly ignored. Had they put him in a psychiatric ward when he asked this could have been avoided. Instead they were selfishly too focused on themselves and not wanting to be inconvenienced with their son’s mental issues.
@@erinpardee2295 yes!!! All of that is true what you said, I didn't have the energy, thank you!
Well done judges for saying basic good question ❓ like why didn't they look into his backpack 🎒 after threats to himself dang it poor bird 🐦 by the way let's not forget the innocent baby bird too
Family enjoyment. Whatever happened to badminton?
right 😂😂😂