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People let's get this straight: 1. They bought him a gun knowing what was going on. 2. Buying that gun for him was a crime. 3.She had text messages about everything that was going on. 4. She did not inform the school they bought him a gun. 5. She did not take their child out of school. Thought it was mischief. Gimme a break. This does set a precedent. Stop being crappy parents. Think with your brains.
@@carolinasones1541 Their are people who buy their children guns. The children are in the right mind and the guns are secured. In this case that wasn't the case.
Buying a gun for someone else is not legal. But no parent has to inform a school about what they have privately because it's not the school business end of the story, just like it's not a doctor's business to no as well.
To all of those saying that the verdict was wrong, need to understand that : He wrote messages and begged his parents for mental health care. She laughed at him and gave him a Xanax. They never told the school that he was hearing voices, hallucinating, and had a gun at home. He gave his parents the money to buy him the gun, so they did so (without securing it). She had affairs and wouldn't answer his text messages for quite some time, yet she immediately texted her lover back. When the home was searched, empty liquor bottles were beside his bed. They drained Ethan's bank account before going on the run. 100% guilty.
Agreed. Everyone knows thats the first sign of a criminally negligent parent, they should audit local stables to prevent future school shootings like this one @@Will_Salcedo
For those who do not think she should be found guilty.... It is gross negligence that caused deaths of others. It would be the same as if parents at home doing shots and getting wasted with their under age kid, then letting them have the car keys and them going out driving and kill people in a crash. The parents would absolutely be held responsible, because it was something they contributed to, encouraged, and was a foreseeable outcome.
This woman is an absolute narcissist! She never cared about anything he did. She barely paid attention to him. And he was practically begging for her attention. He committed this crime bcs of her neglect! I’m really glad she’s being held responsible!
This comment needs to be pinned. The ones who think Jennifer shouldn’t be held accountable either didn’t watch the trial or may be that parent who knows they’re irresponsible.
It's simple. We have family planning methods. If you don't want to be a parent, don't have kids. If you do, you are responsible for taking care of them and teaching them right vs wrong. The parents refused to take care of their child when he was pleading for help. They knew there were issues for a long time and she refused to do anything. I think that's right
Lesson : Bring strict gun restriction laws similar to Europe. It's impossible for any country to track down every depressed teenager but it's possible to prevent them, or anybody, from reaching firearms.
I’m tired of people saying they’re not responsible for someone else’s actions. This is not just someone, this is their child, a MINOR. Until he is 18 and an adult, they ARE responsible for him. The jury made the right choice finding her guilty.
This has been my issue for years! Too many times there is an adult enabler involved in these school shootings. These parents are guilty, guilty, guilty! We need to include the enablers going forward! Who gives a child, much less a disturbed one, a handgun!!!!! In what world does this make sense?
"Too many times there is an adult enabler involved in these school shootings." In this instance let's count in the 2 school admin guys too. They let the nutjob remain on school premises without searching his backpack inspite of the drawings and the googling for ammo reported to them by the teachers. They didn't need to hear the parents tell them that there was a gun - the proof before their eyes were more than enough!
What they did was actually legal in their state. It was definitely a poor decision but they weren’t the ones who pulled the trigger and aimed. The guilty party who did is already in jail. So they didn’t actually do anything illegal. This is a dangerous precedent to set because where does it end? Do you only put the really, really bad parents in jail or bad ones too?
And the school let him go back into class. And they didn't even bother to search his bag/locker first. instead, they just put him right back into the mix like nothing even happened. Just a bunch of deflected blame going on all around smh. And nobody has even so much as mentioned that glaringly obvious fact anywhere throughout any of these proceedings. It's just shameful that the school is just going to get away with facing any accountability for its own part in this senseless tragedy.
I would think that most parents whose children murdered four kids and shot several others, and a teacher would be absolutely hysterical on the stand. This woman was cold as ice. She did not care at all. And I think that’s part of the reason she got convicted.
When you're on trial, your attorney advises how to be on the witness stand. Ok, she didn't show a lot of emotions. But that's her. That doesn't mean she wanted four people dead.
Why would you think things are fine if the school tells you to get your child a therapist within 48 hours after they’ve already been researching bullets and drawing messed up images…smh
Well one could argue that this was not the first time the parents were notified about bullets and drawings. If I was on the jury I would vote guilty not because of that but because she and her husband bought their mentally disturbed child a firearm. I believe that money should have been spent on the copay of professional therapy appointments instead!
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@@serif392 that wasn't a possible answer to my question. Try again. Like it or not. Agree or disagree. Doesn't matter. Hundreds of millions of American families celebrate gun culture. I myself am ex military and have taught my kid how to use and respect a gun before the age of 12. Sweden teaches their kids at a younger age to respect weapons. So your question, "why does a kid need a gun?" is irrelevant. I'm not here to explain, justify or defend the culture. I'm here asking how a line is drawn directly from; 1) buying a kid a gun regardless of their mental state 2) = bad parenting. There is clearly some logic missing.
One big thing that stands out to me is the fact that she says that the gun was for the range and the range only. Why did she buy ammo? You could purchase ammo at the range or on the way to the range. So even with the gun not being secured, as it should be, it shouldn't have the ammo to enable the massacre.
@@kickboxer2149Why was the lock you reference in its original packaging within the cabinet then??!?!?!? (As clearly exhibited in forensic photography taken during execution of search warrant of house)
Kids are dead because of these irresponsible, neglectful parents, maybe now people will start taking notice and take responsibility for their kids. If you can't take responsibility for them, don't have them and if you want to own a firearm, lock it up. People getting their feather's ruffled, why? Surely the most important thing is protecting our kids, not you. You brought your kids into this world, you look after them, your children come first, end of! This woman spent thousands on her horses, listened when her horse needed treatment for mud fever but laughed at her own son when he told her he needed help and spent only 11 minutes discussing that drawing before leaving to get back to work. Ethan may have been the shooter but they put that gun in his hand. She was too preoccupied with her own wants and needs, she knew Ethan had issues but convinced herself he was fine because she neither had the time or inclination to deal with it. First interview with the police, 4 dead kids, her son is in jail and she sat there texting the whole time. The jury came back with the right verdict.
Yes they are irresponsible and negligent but I believe they are EVIL too! Those parents BOUGHT a mentally disturbed minor a gun! That is evil imo because they KNEW other school kids could be harmed by their son once he had a firearm. He should have never had a firearm and without a gun that coward would have likely been stopped from attacking those 4 school kids
Likely 10 years is the minimum sentence. Judges have statutory sentencing guidelines they must abide by. I do not know what MI’s sentencing guidelines are but I do know she is charged and convicted of “4 counts of involuntary manslaughter” so the judge cannot possibly sentence her to only 10 or less years. Furthermore, there is a sentencing hearing where victim’ families will ask for maximum so the judge will order a sentence somewhere in the middle of 10 to 17 years.
In Australia we have a saying. “F@ck around and find out.” She f@cked around and found out. Not only did she ignore his cries for help. She literally put the weapon in his hands!
Everyone wants to talk about parental rights, but not parental responsibilities. She severely neglected her child and enabled him to commit violence. Maybe if parents start getting held accountable for this, less will happen. If you buy your kid a gun, you are responsible for everything they do with it, your kid, your gun, your responsibility.
Them having a meeting with the school right before this happening is crazy. Plus what was written on that paper besides the gun?? “Help me” “the world is dead” that’s definitely some big red flags that all of those adults ignored
Let's see how your entire life would look dissected inside a courtroom. How would the masses across the internet judge you? Would they they slander your name as well. Imagine all of your text messages shared, your secrets, and every decision you made regarding your children shared. All because one of your children decided to shoot up a school.
With everything else aside, the fact of the matter is that the gun was not secured from their minor child. If it had been, this would not have happened, period. Not in this way anyway. It is a parent/adult’s job to secure their firearms. THAT was the most important point of failure.
If my kid asks me for a gun, it's my duty as a parent to investigate why. Wanting to learn self-protection is arguably legitimate. But one must at least why and ask about their life!
This is one of those rare cases I have sympathy for the assailant. He was reaching out for help and was denied, he desperately needed help and he knew something was wrong with him. If he was given the help he needed, as he has a right to, this never would've happened. I'm utterly disgusted by the parents. If anything, he needs to serve his sentence in psychiatric detention. I dont think prison is the right call for Crumbley. In my opinion, parents so negligent about their kids mental health should absolutely be held criminally accountable if their child enacts in criminal activity, to any level.
@@nikkimclay5474 he was so clearly not well. He needs help the prison system can't offer. He needs to serve his sentence, but I find it would help him so much more if he served in in psychiatric detention. I wonder if he suffered from early onset schizophrenia. This poor kid deserved more from life, as did his victims. The parents negligence destroyed dozens of lives because they couldn't be bothered to help their son. It's absolutely disgusting
Thank you for covering this trial! I feel for every person in this case, including the Crumbleys. Even without this verdict and the statement it makes, they will undoubtibly carry the weight of the question of what they might have done differently, along with the burden of lives lost. It is a tragedy.
She yelled don’t do it because she thought he was going to kill himself?! What about the kids who can’t talk to their parents ever again because she gifted her child a weapon.
She thought or she was hoping he'd unalive himself... She doesn't care what happened to the other kids, she made that clear when she said on the stand that she wouldn't change anything.
They're making an example out of both parents, so this will send a message to parents out there who neglect their kids to watch out for signs of mental illness, and when their kids are playing violent and graphic video games, that is a sign of a problem withdrawn and antisocial, lock their firearms in a safe place away from any access underage kids are just too immature to handle a gun and parents should be held accountable.
The defence lawyer lost the Larry Nasser trial. Now, she's also lost the Jennifer Crumbley trial. Yeah, I'd say she's not a good criminal defence lawyer.
I think the school should be charged as well for letting him go back to class before he received the level of help he needed or at least searched his property.
The judge read in the jury instructions that in Michigan, parents have a legal duty to control their minor children and they must control them when they know of the necessity and opportunity to do so to prevent that child from harming someone else or conducting themselves in a manner which may harm someone else. The school staff didn’t have this specific legal responsibility. They contacted the parents and strongly urged counseling within 48 hours. He was going to report the issue to cps after 48 hours if he hadn’t been evaluated. That’s about the most they could do. They could’ve sent him home but they can’t be tried for that. It didn’t seem warranted at the time. We weren’t there.
@@bford5899 the school 100% has the legal responsibility to keep the other students safe. They absolutely failed to do so. They should have searched him and also removed him from the school once they had any idea he was even contemplating this action. They need to be held accountable as well.
@@bford5899 "The school did all they were required to do." That's where they failed in this instance. This nutjob posed an imminent danger with what he was exhibiting. Those 2 school admins were the last line of the school defense. Which means they must have gone beyond what was required of them to ensure the safety of other students/staff. They didn't. UNFORTUNATELY!
Sad. Absolutely devastating. I wanna hug each and everyone of those parents who lost their children. No one should have to bury a child.... This world is such a mess....
Well, this may encourage more people to be involved in their children’s lives, if not for their children’s benefits, but their own self preservation… not a great thing, but great incentive to actually raise children brought into the world instead of just giving them things to make them leave you alone.
I'm surprised the defense even tried the "she didn't know" defense. During discovery, they knew the prosecution had the texts and information about school meetings. How tf did she not know?
Her appearance changed to match the disgusting woman she really was and is. Having affairs, going to the “Barn” going on adult web sites, acting as if she didn’t have a child. Appearance says it all
I do not understand. The kid is mentally ill, but sent to jail? Did they not do a mental health evaluation on him? If he had a psychosis or such when comitting this horrible crime, he belongs in a mental care institution.
@@cee073The long a** recording Ethan made the day before being very clear of mind and telling of his plan and understanding of right and wrong. They played it in court.
He was charged as an adult so legally speaking, US parents are now liable for the crimes of their adult children. Buckle up, loads of folks are gonna go to jail soon. Gotta get that money flowing!
It would seem common sense dictates if your kid is writing these absolutely horrific entries, Beaver Cleaver is not at your dinner table. His daily demeanor was obvious and they chose to gift him a gun. The nerve of mom to call herself a helicopter parent. …….and she wouldn’t change a thing !
I cannot believe instead of saying "I wish we didnt buy him a gun or i wish we got him help so he didnt shoot anyone" she said "i wish he shot *us instead*"
They didn't even greet him or say bye to him or anything at the office.. and if they did take him home I wonder if they would have looked to see if the gun was there and in the bag and if he would have relinquished it to them or if they just wouldn't cared. I guess we'll never know.
She texted "Ethan dont do it" because she thought he was going to kill himself. She went through the entire realization that it was HER son who was the shooter, and that he was going to kill himself. She didnt say "Ethan don't do it" as in don't kill people, she meant "Dont kill YOURSELF" which tells me a lot about her thinking. She wasnt trying to protect any other child except her own from dying. Not even to mention that she said if she was go to back in time she wouldnt do anything differently. If I was her, I could think of at least 100 things I could have done differently. She should have asked him where that gun was, she should have left that meeting and went directly home to make sure that weapon was still there and secure it. It wasnt even a thought in her brain and thats what makes her CRIMINALLY negligent.
This mother knew what her son was capable of, knew his mental state, knew he was a danger to himself and others. And with knowing this, and knowing the state of her son, she still went out and bought him a gun. She, the mother of this kid, bought a gun for someone she knew would've done something like this. She deserves worse then him. He wanted help, and she never gave it to him.
By all means, own firearms. But you HAVE to understand that gun ownership comes with A LOT of responsibility. This is beyond politics, that's just basic fact. Owning a dangerous weapon should be treated with the UTMOST care and responsibility. You can't just leave it so your child has easy access to it while you neglect their needs. Parents are accountable for the actions of their children. Your children are a product of their upbringing, full stop.
He was tried as an adult - this means legally speaking, parents are now responsible for the crimes committed by their children. The diary was submitted into evidence when SHE didn't see it at all. So - what, we punish parents now because their kids are bonkers?
@@kadmilos9112if you purchase your bonkers child a gun and ignore him texting you about demons and things being thrown off at shelf at him, yup. You are responsible for things he does with the weapon YOU secured for him.
The verdict was spot on. I’m old enough to remember columbine and gone are the days of parents shutting their eyes to what their children are doing. Especially when that child is asking for help
The defense's closing statement that Mrs. C. took the schools opinion to mean her son was "fine" is just a tiny sample of how they failed to represent her. What idiots! Since when is it a school's responsibility to determine the well being of OUR children? Did the defense really think statements like that were helping their client? It's almost as if they wanted her convicted...hmmm?
It's ironic that what Jennifer claimed to be the Christmas present given to Ethan has to be "kept away" from him because it's a "present" he was not supposed to have.
I'd feel more willing to side with her if she didn't look and talk so aloof on the stand. She acted like she couldn't care less when talking about the evidence like it didn't concern her at all and she could be using her time for more important things like her horses. That kid was crying out for help and his parents failed him and then proceeded to give him the tools to hurt others.
Justice was served. This is a very specific set of facts, and when added up- the parents clearly are culpable. And she knew it, too...lied on the stand and she and her husband ran after the shooting and tried to evade LE. Guilty, for so many reasons.
Justice wasn't served. This is vengeance and retribution, not justice. Charging somebody for the crimes and actions of others is a corruption of the legal system.
Well this just an example of many, many many differing opinions.Personally, I disagree. If she knew her child was drunk and she gave him the keys to her car and he killed someone on the street- she would be complicit then, also. However-lot of polarized opinions on this case, not surprisingly. Have good night!
Um, whose choice was It to decorate your background with what looks like blood splattered walls? Its eye catching , and It totally suits the narrative,and is very immersive! Bold choice of art direction!
You missed a important fact that the former dean carried the backpack with the gun inside it across campus for the shooter (unknowing the gun was inside) he was in charge of student safety and behavior
Why is that important? He didn't know the parents had bought the kid a gun. Jennifer withheld crucial information Others may have acted on if they had know.
And said it was very heavy, he was new to the job & very weak, should have forced him home that day or checked why bag was so heavy, Ethan wanted to get caught
"the former dean carried the backpack with the gun inside it across campus for the shooter (unknowing the gun was inside)" and "said it was very heavy," Even without the parents telling of the gun existence, but based on the report from the teachers that there was googling the day before re ammo purchase plus the blood-letting drawing with the gun precisely drawn on the math sheet, what the heck this dean was thinking? or rather NOT thinking of? My take is that these 2 school admin guys were cowed by the Crumbleys, 1) the mother seemingly the one who wore pants in the family and 2) the shooter, a prodigy of manipulation in his own right (just look at the wordings he used to cover up the violence in his original drawings, with "peace and love" and "all is fine with the world" (I'm paraphrasing) - a truly mental person won't be able to come up with such elements of thought). So it seems the outcome of the meeting was what the defendants, not the school admin decided. I truly hope the later will be held accountable sooner or later.
@@Jordan-nw4sj "He didn't know the parents had bought the kid a gun" in this instance that knowledge is irrelevant. The facts reported to the teachers should be plenty for him and his counselor to take decisive action. And because they didn't, the shooter went into the rest room and pulled his gun out and loaded it and went out and opened fire. Use your common sense for x's sake!
The criminal was charged as an adult so does that mean any adult or child above 10 who had a horrendous childhood that made them a criminal their parents are going to be charged.
No one should be allowed a gun unless you are either in the Police force or military and most certainly not children! How many die in America because of guns?!!! Crazy!
It's about time the parents getting in trouble for the mas school shootings the whole case breaks my heart as a mom hope there son is getting the help he needs in prison
So Jennifer states that she knows nothing about guns and didn’t participate in any of what her son and husband were doing regarding guns, as well as the gun being secured was completely up to the husband, yet she took her soon to the range and left the gun in her car without securing it ? Nothing she said made any sense
At the shooting range she never understood that he was using the shooters stance when firing at targets. He used the exact same stance during the shootings
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People let's get this straight:
1. They bought him a gun knowing what was going on.
2. Buying that gun for him was a crime.
3.She had text messages about everything that was going on.
4. She did not inform the school they bought him a gun.
5. She did not take their child out of school. Thought it was mischief. Gimme a break.
This does set a precedent. Stop being crappy parents. Think with your brains.
I would never ever buy my kid a gun. That’s ridiculous. I believe in guns for self protection but again, I would never buy one for my kid. 😡
@@carolinasones1541 Their are people who buy their children guns. The children are in the right mind and the guns are secured. In this case that wasn't the case.
Buying a gun for someone else is not legal. But no parent has to inform a school about what they have privately because it's not the school business end of the story, just like it's not a doctor's business to no as well.
@@mpac418 Well people still do it. Parents need to be more responsible.
And they tried to escape because they knew they were 100% responsible.
The mother and father took off after the shootings?
@@LadyBirchnot but their own hand but YES! Is like hiring a killer, still a crime.
To all of those saying that the verdict was wrong, need to understand that : He wrote messages and begged his parents for mental health care. She laughed at him and gave him a Xanax. They never told the school that he was hearing voices, hallucinating, and had a gun at home. He gave his parents the money to buy him the gun, so they did so (without securing it). She had affairs and wouldn't answer his text messages for quite some time, yet she immediately texted her lover back. When the home was searched, empty liquor bottles were beside his bed. They drained Ethan's bank account before going on the run. 100% guilty.
Bad does not equal criminal. I am not responsible for the actions of somebody else.
Thanks for this. I need to remember this every time I start to feel sorry for her.
Don't forget them spending 20k on their horses
@@x43902467It was their minor child, they gave him a gun, ignored all the warning flags for his cries for help. That how! So many lives destroyed.
Agreed. Everyone knows thats the first sign of a criminally negligent parent, they should audit local stables to prevent future school shootings like this one @@Will_Salcedo
For those who do not think she should be found guilty....
It is gross negligence that caused deaths of others. It would be the same as if parents at home doing shots and getting wasted with their under age kid, then letting them have the car keys and them going out driving and kill people in a crash. The parents would absolutely be held responsible, because it was something they contributed to, encouraged, and was a foreseeable outcome.
Exactly....Amazing how so many people cant understand this
This woman is an absolute narcissist! She never cared about anything he did. She barely paid attention to him. And he was practically begging for her attention.
He committed this crime bcs of her neglect! I’m really glad she’s being held responsible!
This comment needs to be pinned. The ones who think Jennifer shouldn’t be held accountable either didn’t watch the trial or may be that parent who knows they’re irresponsible.
Theys gunna take mah guns away 😢
@@danishaferreira7796 he committed this crime because he had behavioral health issues that were not treated.
How do you not consider yourself a failure of a parent when your child is in prison for life for murdering four people
Narcissists are delusional and ultra arrogant
Not to mention the running out on him.
Indeed.....Sad for every lost life, my heart goes out to the families.💔😢😇😇😇
Lesson: Pay attention to your kids and listen to them when they ask for help
And secure firearms
It's simple. We have family planning methods. If you don't want to be a parent, don't have kids. If you do, you are responsible for taking care of them and teaching them right vs wrong. The parents refused to take care of their child when he was pleading for help. They knew there were issues for a long time and she refused to do anything. I think that's right
Lessons: Dont give weapons of mass destruction as gifts to underage kids.
Lesson : Bring strict gun restriction laws similar to Europe. It's impossible for any country to track down every depressed teenager but it's possible to prevent them, or anybody, from reaching firearms.
And do not buy minors guns! In most states that is illegal so if it is legal in MI that means they lied on the federal background check form!
I’m tired of people saying they’re not responsible for someone else’s actions. This is not just someone, this is their child, a MINOR. Until he is 18 and an adult, they ARE responsible for him. The jury made the right choice finding her guilty.
This has been my issue for years! Too many times there is an adult enabler involved in these school shootings. These parents are guilty, guilty, guilty! We need to include the enablers going forward! Who gives a child, much less a disturbed one, a handgun!!!!! In what world does this make sense?
"Too many times there is an adult enabler involved in these school shootings." In this instance let's count in the 2 school admin guys too. They let the nutjob remain on school premises without searching his backpack inspite of the drawings and the googling for ammo reported to them by the teachers. They didn't need to hear the parents tell them that there was a gun - the proof before their eyes were more than enough!
My kids are adults now, but I have a grandson in school and yes, is something to worry about.
Keep in mind...they didn't give this kid a Red Ryder B-B gun.
They gave him a weapon capable of murder.
Well all guns are capable of murder 😂 just depends on who's using it
Well, at least he didn't shoot his eye out... (ahem, SARCASM)
What they did was actually legal in their state. It was definitely a poor decision but they weren’t the ones who pulled the trigger and aimed. The guilty party who did is already in jail. So they didn’t actually do anything illegal. This is a dangerous precedent to set because where does it end? Do you only put the really, really bad parents in jail or bad ones too?
And the school let him go back into class. And they didn't even bother to search his bag/locker first. instead, they just put him right back into the mix like nothing even happened. Just a bunch of deflected blame going on all around smh. And nobody has even so much as mentioned that glaringly obvious fact anywhere throughout any of these proceedings. It's just shameful that the school is just going to get away with facing any accountability for its own part in this senseless tragedy.
@@buddygrimfield7954mypoint exactly. Thy could have called the police to have him take. Into protective custody
I would think that most parents whose children murdered four kids and shot several others, and a teacher would be absolutely hysterical on the stand. This woman was cold as ice. She did not care at all. And I think that’s part of the reason she got convicted.
This is exactly why the court system is a clown show. Somebody isn't emotional, so they are guilty haha...
When you're on trial, your attorney advises how to be on the witness stand. Ok, she didn't show a lot of emotions. But that's her. That doesn't mean she wanted four people dead.
She was cold and emotionless and I think that gave the jury a good indication that she likely treated her son the same way.
Yah I couldn't believe her attitude on the stand... like she thought there was no way she would be convicted
They weren’t her kids
Why would you think things are fine if the school tells you to get your child a therapist within 48 hours after they’ve already been researching bullets and drawing messed up images…smh
Well one could argue that this was not the first time the parents were notified about bullets and drawings. If I was on the jury I would vote guilty not because of that but because she and her husband bought their mentally disturbed child a firearm. I believe that money should have been spent on the copay of professional therapy appointments instead!
They shouldn’t have been given 48 hours
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this case is so unprecedented its insane
What's insane is people still don't get how messed up these parents were!!!! SMDH!
@@Carebearstare.... i agree with you !!! horrible parents..
It's completely avoidable!😢
Insane in the membrane
not funny..@@jimlewis2395 how would you feel if it was your son/daughter that was brutally murdered?
WHY, WHY, WHY do parents buy kids guns????? Regardless of their mental state..... it's bad parenting!
How is buying a kid a gun bad parenting?
@@corpsesofliberty3661What need does a kid have for a gun?
@@serif392 that wasn't a possible answer to my question. Try again.
Like it or not. Agree or disagree. Doesn't matter. Hundreds of millions of American families celebrate gun culture. I myself am ex military and have taught my kid how to use and respect a gun before the age of 12. Sweden teaches their kids at a younger age to respect weapons. So your question, "why does a kid need a gun?" is irrelevant. I'm not here to explain, justify or defend the culture. I'm here asking how a line is drawn directly from;
1) buying a kid a gun regardless of their mental state
2) = bad parenting.
There is clearly some logic missing.
@@corpsesofliberty3661 SERIOUSLY????
@@corpsesofliberty3661 kids have no need for a gun nor do they have the need to learn how to use one n teaching that as a parent IS bad parenting
One big thing that stands out to me is the fact that she says that the gun was for the range and the range only. Why did she buy ammo? You could purchase ammo at the range or on the way to the range. So even with the gun not being secured, as it should be, it shouldn't have the ammo to enable the massacre.
💯👏
It was secured, it had a lock on it. I wish people would stop saying this and go listen to her testimony for gods sake.
. The parents went on the run from cops and drained Ethan's bank account after the shooting.
Tells you all you need to know @@kickboxer2149
@@kickboxer2149Why was the lock you reference in its original packaging within the cabinet then??!?!?!? (As clearly exhibited in forensic photography taken during execution of search warrant of house)
It’s 10x more expensive at the range buddy
Defense attorney was unprepared, unprofessional, and bizzare through the trial.
She actually talked about Taylor Swift songs to the jury 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Probably a tactic to request a new trial.
You’re right about that. I wouldn’t be surprised if she got an appeal for ineffective counsel because she was pretty bad.
😂😂 I get where she was going with the lyrics, but I don’t think she thought that through before deciding to say it out loud. 😂😂
She talked too much about herself
They had warnings that he was unstable and did nothing. Those parents are definitely responsible.
Kids are dead because of these irresponsible, neglectful parents, maybe now people will start taking notice and take responsibility for their kids. If you can't take responsibility for them, don't have them and if you want to own a firearm, lock it up. People getting their feather's ruffled, why? Surely the most important thing is protecting our kids, not you. You brought your kids into this world, you look after them, your children come first, end of! This woman spent thousands on her horses, listened when her horse needed treatment for mud fever but laughed at her own son when he told her he needed help and spent only 11 minutes discussing that drawing before leaving to get back to work. Ethan may have been the shooter but they put that gun in his hand. She was too preoccupied with her own wants and needs, she knew Ethan had issues but convinced herself he was fine because she neither had the time or inclination to deal with it. First interview with the police, 4 dead kids, her son is in jail and she sat there texting the whole time. The jury came back with the right verdict.
Yes they are irresponsible and negligent but I believe they are EVIL too! Those parents BOUGHT a mentally disturbed minor a gun! That is evil imo because they KNEW other school kids could be harmed by their son once he had a firearm. He should have never had a firearm and without a gun that coward would have likely been stopped from attacking those 4 school kids
She lied. Showed NO remorse. Wouldn't do anything differently. JC sealed her fate! I hope she's sentenced to at least 10 years!
Showing remorse? Pointless.
Do something different? That is not possible. Free will is an illusion.
15 years is the most she could so I'm hoping she 15 years for all of 4 counts which comes out to 60 years
I asked my mom what's her opinion about Jennifer crumbley and she said she's right where she belongs and needs to stay locked up
Likely 10 years is the minimum sentence. Judges have statutory sentencing guidelines they must abide by. I do not know what MI’s sentencing guidelines are but I do know she is charged and convicted of “4 counts of involuntary manslaughter” so the judge cannot possibly sentence her to only 10 or less years. Furthermore, there is a sentencing hearing where victim’ families will ask for maximum so the judge will order a sentence somewhere in the middle of 10 to 17 years.
I think she should do 25 years for four lives taken.
they knew they were responsible for their child's actions because they tried to flee
If nothing else, it looked really, really bad
Knowing your are responsible does not mean that you are. The "knowing" is just a thought, which could be wrong.
right? That seals the deal. Before they were even charged they fled. They didn't try to flee, they did flee. Just they were found out.
I thought they did flee ?
In Australia we have a saying. “F@ck around and find out.” She f@cked around and found out.
Not only did she ignore his cries for help. She literally put the weapon in his hands!
Thank goodness we have strict gun laws here in Oz. 🇦🇺🦘
That's a saying every where in the world
Common sense why would you buy a kid a gun. Also your lawyer sucks.
Everyone wants to talk about parental rights, but not parental responsibilities. She severely neglected her child and enabled him to commit violence. Maybe if parents start getting held accountable for this, less will happen. If you buy your kid a gun, you are responsible for everything they do with it, your kid, your gun, your responsibility.
Them having a meeting with the school right before this happening is crazy. Plus what was written on that paper besides the gun?? “Help me” “the world is dead” that’s definitely some big red flags that all of those adults ignored
Her attorney seemed whacked out of her mind
I've never seen an attorney act out like this drama queen.
Correct
My thoughts too. She annoyed me.
It's not up to the school to raise your kid
They failed their son & society, completely. She is in deep denial. I wonder will she ever accept her utter failure as a mother. Same for the father.
Let's see how your entire life would look dissected inside a courtroom.
How would the masses across the internet judge you? Would they they slander your name as well.
Imagine all of your text messages shared, your secrets, and every decision you made regarding your children shared. All because one of your children decided to shoot up a school.
With everything else aside, the fact of the matter is that the gun was not secured from their minor child. If it had been, this would not have happened, period. Not in this way anyway. It is a parent/adult’s job to secure their firearms. THAT was the most important point of failure.
If my kid asks me for a gun, it's my duty as a parent to investigate why. Wanting to learn self-protection is arguably legitimate. But one must at least why and ask about their life!
She said because he and his dad shot targets at the range.
Kids lie
@@mayaisawesome1 they don't lie if you raise them right
I raised two sons, if one of them would've asked me to buy him a gun..I would've totally said NO! wtf
If my child wanted a gun for protection. My first question would be. Who do you need protection from?
This is one of those rare cases I have sympathy for the assailant. He was reaching out for help and was denied, he desperately needed help and he knew something was wrong with him. If he was given the help he needed, as he has a right to, this never would've happened. I'm utterly disgusted by the parents. If anything, he needs to serve his sentence in psychiatric detention. I dont think prison is the right call for Crumbley.
In my opinion, parents so negligent about their kids mental health should absolutely be held criminally accountable if their child enacts in criminal activity, to any level.
He was a sweet, lovely child & was found not mentally I’ll yet here they argue he was ?? He was severely mentally ill, my heart breaks for him
@@nikkimclay5474 he was so clearly not well. He needs help the prison system can't offer. He needs to serve his sentence, but I find it would help him so much more if he served in in psychiatric detention. I wonder if he suffered from early onset schizophrenia. This poor kid deserved more from life, as did his victims. The parents negligence destroyed dozens of lives because they couldn't be bothered to help their son. It's absolutely disgusting
I saw this lady the day after the son's arrest. She was about 50 lbs lighter.
What happened to her?
Justice was served.
SO MANY KIDs ARE HURTing....AND SUFFERING IN SILENCE....
BREAKs MY HEART, for all the kids that are begging to be heard..
Thank you for covering this trial! I feel for every person in this case, including the Crumbleys. Even without this verdict and the statement it makes, they will undoubtibly carry the weight of the question of what they might have done differently, along with the burden of lives lost. It is a tragedy.
She yelled don’t do it because she thought he was going to kill himself?! What about the kids who can’t talk to their parents ever again because she gifted her child a weapon.
She thought or she was hoping he'd unalive himself... She doesn't care what happened to the other kids, she made that clear when she said on the stand that she wouldn't change anything.
I liked this format of recapping the case in court. Thanks for sharing
You cannot mess around with a Ouija board and not expect trouble! No wonder the young man thought their house was haunted.
The prosecutor did an amazing job articulating their case during the trial.
Imagine quoting Taylor Swift in a trial as a lawyer. 🤦🏽♀️
Thank you for this upload!
She’s on PowerSchool but was never informed about a failed test… now that’s a lie 😂 you see whatever the teacher enters in the grade book
She obviously didn't pay attention to it. She didn't seem to worry about his schooling...or him in general...too busy with her own life
Why wasn’t she also brought up on charges for her parenting? Neglect, etc.
That was part of the criterion for her to be found guilty of manslaughter. The jury agreed that she was grossly negligent
They're making an example out of both parents, so this will send a message to parents out there who neglect their kids to watch out for signs of mental illness, and when their kids are playing violent and graphic video games, that is a sign of a problem withdrawn and antisocial, lock their firearms in a safe place away from any access underage kids are just too immature to handle a gun and parents should be held accountable.
Wonderful recap. Especially your closing thoughts.
All, negligent parents should be held accountable for their kids crimes, as well as the kids.
The defence lawyer lost the Larry Nasser trial. Now, she's also lost the Jennifer Crumbley trial. Yeah, I'd say she's not a good criminal defence lawyer.
Exactly. So many people are saying that this probably was her first case. Not at all. She defended some pretty prominent a...holes before
I thought she looked familiar.
I think the school should be charged as well for letting him go back to class before he received the level of help he needed or at least searched his property.
💯!!! They are guilty as well.
The judge read in the jury instructions that in Michigan, parents have a legal duty to control their minor children and they must control them when they know of the necessity and opportunity to do so to prevent that child from harming someone else or conducting themselves in a manner which may harm someone else. The school staff didn’t have this specific legal responsibility. They contacted the parents and strongly urged counseling within 48 hours. He was going to report the issue to cps after 48 hours if he hadn’t been evaluated. That’s about the most they could do. They could’ve sent him home but they can’t be tried for that. It didn’t seem warranted at the time. We weren’t there.
@@bford5899 the school 100% has the legal responsibility to keep the other students safe. They absolutely failed to do so. They should have searched him and also removed him from the school once they had any idea he was even contemplating this action. They need to be held accountable as well.
@@paulwilliams8982 they COULD have searched him. They didn’t HAVE to. The school did all they were required to do. The parents did not
@@bford5899 "The school did all they were required to do." That's where they failed in this instance. This nutjob posed an imminent danger with what he was exhibiting. Those 2 school admins were the last line of the school defense. Which means they must have gone beyond what was required of them to ensure the safety of other students/staff. They didn't. UNFORTUNATELY!
The journal should not have come into evidence, since the prosecution had no evidence the parents knew its contents
That's true... I think that will come up on appeal.
It won't change anything in appeal. There's plenty of other evidence of negligence, and that journal will be a mood point, just like in this trial.
Ugh. That defense attorney has horrible upspeak. So monotonous. She should learn to correct that.
Sad. Absolutely devastating. I wanna hug each and everyone of those parents who lost their children. No one should have to bury a child.... This world is such a mess....
Well, this may encourage more people to be involved in their children’s lives, if not for their children’s benefits, but their own self preservation… not a great thing, but great incentive to actually raise children brought into the world instead of just giving them things to make them leave you alone.
This will never end in your country
I'm surprised the defense even tried the "she didn't know" defense. During discovery, they knew the prosecution had the texts and information about school meetings. How tf did she not know?
Wow, prison has not been gentle on her🤣
Her 2 year transformation is really quite sad. She has really aged in such a short amount of time
Her appearance changed to match the disgusting woman she really was and is. Having affairs, going to the “Barn” going on adult web sites, acting as if she didn’t have a child. Appearance says it all
No more quick online dating hookups No need to go through all the hassle of staying in shape and looking good 🤣
She really doesn't love her son 😔
Parents need to pay attention. And SNOOP. Be parents and not buddies!
🎯
I do not understand. The kid is mentally ill, but sent to jail? Did they not do a mental health evaluation on him? If he had a psychosis or such when comitting this horrible crime, he belongs in a mental care institution.
Right? Common in the US. Should be different
They did and they found that Ethan does NOT suffer from any mental health defect and basically he lied about it all.
@tammyirwin703 who said he was lying?
@@cee073The long a** recording Ethan made the day before being very clear of mind and telling of his plan and understanding of right and wrong. They played it in court.
He was charged as an adult so legally speaking, US parents are now liable for the crimes of their adult children. Buckle up, loads of folks are gonna go to jail soon. Gotta get that money flowing!
More parents should take accountability for their brats
Parents totally should be accountable. No excuses hope she rot in jail.
Don’t they have combs in the US?
Her defense attorney had one!
When is the sentencing?
Sentencing is in early April - James’s trial is next month and I reckon he knows he’s screwed now 😬
Sentencing is in April. She's facing 15 years tops. And she's already served 2 years
i feel like she hired her friend who is a lawyer to defend her, and that was a bad move. This is one of the worst defense attourneys I've ever seen.
She’s very unprofessional
@digitalsoundbath she actually was Larry Nassar's lawyer before
It would seem common sense dictates if your kid is writing these absolutely horrific entries, Beaver Cleaver is not at your dinner table. His daily demeanor was obvious and they chose to gift him a gun. The nerve of mom to call herself a helicopter parent.
…….and she wouldn’t change a thing !
I would hate to be a defence lawyer in these cases.
She's not trying to say 'the right thing'. She's not a lawyer. She's telling her truth.
That was the cringiest line in an opening argument ever 😬
Them claiming the parents didn't know and blaming the school for not informing them just makes them sound like negligent and absent parents tbh.
If I were the Crumbleys I would have been worried he might shoot us if Ethan got away they would have probably be next
I cannot believe instead of saying "I wish we didnt buy him a gun or i wish we got him help so he didnt shoot anyone" she said "i wish he shot *us instead*"
I'm gonna sound awful for saying this and so be it, but I agree with what his "mother" said in court "I wish he would have shot us instead".
🤷
They didn't even greet him or say bye to him or anything at the office.. and if they did take him home I wonder if they would have looked to see if the gun was there and in the bag and if he would have relinquished it to them or if they just wouldn't cared. I guess we'll never know.
This is exactly where the blame should be. Their child is a product of their negligent parenting.
She texted "Ethan dont do it" because she thought he was going to kill himself. She went through the entire realization that it was HER son who was the shooter, and that he was going to kill himself. She didnt say "Ethan don't do it" as in don't kill people, she meant "Dont kill YOURSELF" which tells me a lot about her thinking. She wasnt trying to protect any other child except her own from dying. Not even to mention that she said if she was go to back in time she wouldnt do anything differently. If I was her, I could think of at least 100 things I could have done differently. She should have asked him where that gun was, she should have left that meeting and went directly home to make sure that weapon was still there and secure it. It wasnt even a thought in her brain and thats what makes her CRIMINALLY negligent.
I feel like defense attorneys just throw random words at the wall, hoping it’ll stick.
I agree they should be charged. They were told about his failing mental health and they blatantly ignored his words and behaviour.
This mother knew what her son was capable of, knew his mental state, knew he was a danger to himself and others. And with knowing this, and knowing the state of her son, she still went out and bought him a gun. She, the mother of this kid, bought a gun for someone she knew would've done something like this. She deserves worse then him. He wanted help, and she never gave it to him.
By all means, own firearms.
But you HAVE to understand that gun ownership comes with A LOT of responsibility. This is beyond politics, that's just basic fact.
Owning a dangerous weapon should be treated with the UTMOST care and responsibility.
You can't just leave it so your child has easy access to it while you neglect their needs.
Parents are accountable for the actions of their children. Your children are a product of their upbringing, full stop.
Anyone who doesn't see the logic in these verdicts, need to seek professional help.🤔
He was tried as an adult - this means legally speaking, parents are now responsible for the crimes committed by their children. The diary was submitted into evidence when SHE didn't see it at all. So - what, we punish parents now because their kids are bonkers?
@@kadmilos9112if you purchase your bonkers child a gun and ignore him texting you about demons and things being thrown off at shelf at him, yup. You are responsible for things he does with the weapon YOU secured for him.
@@kadmilos9112the diary! How tf did that make it into the trial? Completely ridiculous. This is an extremely unprecedented trial and verdict.
@@Jordan-nw4sj It was said during the trial that he joked about that and even sent his mom videos of him moving the door and blaming it on a ghost.
The verdict was spot on. I’m old enough to remember columbine and gone are the days of parents shutting their eyes to what their children are doing. Especially when that child is asking for help
Oh my goodness she does not respond normal to her child being a killer ! She should be miserable. 😮
Everyone must grieve the way you think they should?
She’s a selfish cold hearted monster.
Participate in a crime…provide a deadly weapon to a minor… should have been charged with felony murder.
I wonder if there are other texts from Ethan to mom about things moving around.
I believe her when she says as a family she felt the three of them were really close: Jennifer and her two horses.
Any responsible parent would ensure all firearms are safe and secured properly when not in use especially around children of any age.
I assumed the gun was in some kind of safe and he didn’t have access. I assumed that all guns had to be kept like that.
tracey...WE GOT IT!! WE HEARD YOU in the 1st couple statements. AND YES...THE PARENTS ARE RESPONSIBLE.
The defense's closing statement that Mrs. C. took the schools opinion to mean her son was "fine" is just a tiny sample of how they failed to represent her. What idiots! Since when is it a school's responsibility to determine the well being of OUR children? Did the defense really think statements like that were helping their client? It's almost as if they wanted her convicted...hmmm?
It's ironic that what Jennifer claimed to be the Christmas present given to Ethan has to be "kept away" from him because it's a "present" he was not supposed to have.
I'd feel more willing to side with her if she didn't look and talk so aloof on the stand. She acted like she couldn't care less when talking about the evidence like it didn't concern her at all and she could be using her time for more important things like her horses. That kid was crying out for help and his parents failed him and then proceeded to give him the tools to hurt others.
Justice was served. This is a very specific set of facts, and when added up- the parents clearly are culpable. And she knew it, too...lied on the stand and she and her husband ran after the shooting and tried to evade LE. Guilty, for so many reasons.
Justice wasn't served. This is vengeance and retribution, not justice. Charging somebody for the crimes and actions of others is a corruption of the legal system.
@@kadmilos9112don't have kids if you don't want to be responsible for them.
Well this just an example of many, many many differing opinions.Personally, I disagree. If she knew her child was drunk and she gave him the keys to her car and he killed someone on the street- she would be complicit then, also. However-lot of polarized opinions on this case, not surprisingly. Have good night!
Taylor swift lyrics is insane
Um, whose choice was It to decorate your background with what looks like blood splattered walls? Its eye catching , and It totally suits the narrative,and is very immersive! Bold choice of art direction!
Her attorney was so rude & did my brain in I had to stop watching this trial 😅
Good people don’t need a gun.
So only “bad” people have guns?
Crumbley Parents should have gotten life sentences. They did not help Ethan. They bought him a Gun ?? 🤨🇨🇦🇨🇦 To the 4 Sweet Souls 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼RIP
You missed a important fact that the former dean carried the backpack with the gun inside it across campus for the shooter (unknowing the gun was inside) he was in charge of student safety and behavior
Why is that important? He didn't know the parents had bought the kid a gun. Jennifer withheld crucial information Others may have acted on if they had know.
And said it was very heavy, he was new to the job & very weak, should have forced him home that day or checked why bag was so heavy, Ethan wanted to get caught
Because he was in charge of student SAFETY and BEHAVIOR. I'm not saying it's his fault I'm just saying he sucks at his job.
"the former dean carried the backpack with the gun inside it across campus for the shooter (unknowing the gun was inside)" and "said it was very heavy," Even without the parents telling of the gun existence, but based on the report from the teachers that there was googling the day before re ammo purchase plus the blood-letting drawing with the gun precisely drawn on the math sheet, what the heck this dean was thinking? or rather NOT thinking of?
My take is that these 2 school admin guys were cowed by the Crumbleys, 1) the mother seemingly the one who wore pants in the family and 2) the shooter, a prodigy of manipulation in his own right (just look at the wordings he used to cover up the violence in his original drawings, with "peace and love" and "all is fine with the world" (I'm paraphrasing) - a truly mental person won't be able to come up with such elements of thought). So it seems the outcome of the meeting was what the defendants, not the school admin decided. I truly hope the later will be held accountable sooner or later.
@@Jordan-nw4sj "He didn't know the parents had bought the kid a gun" in this instance that knowledge is irrelevant. The facts reported to the teachers should be plenty for him and his counselor to take decisive action. And because they didn't, the shooter went into the rest room and pulled his gun out and loaded it and went out and opened fire. Use your common sense for x's sake!
The criminal was charged as an adult so does that mean any adult or child above 10 who had a horrendous childhood that made them a criminal their parents are going to be charged.
No one should be allowed a gun unless you are either in the Police force or military and most certainly not children!
How many die in America because of guns?!!! Crazy!
It's about time the parents getting in trouble for the mas school shootings the whole case breaks my heart as a mom hope there son is getting the help he needs in prison
Why isnt anyone even trying to blame the school.
So Jennifer states that she knows nothing about guns and didn’t participate in any of what her son and husband were doing regarding guns, as well as the gun being secured was completely up to the husband, yet she took her soon to the range and left the gun in her car without securing it ? Nothing she said made any sense
At the shooting range she never understood that he was using the shooters stance when firing at targets. He used the exact same stance during the shootings
I agree to a point because Jennifer didn’t buy he the gun for him
husband did, I believe that the husband should be charged not her.