Giannis is the only true Power Forward left. He inherited the Point Forward skills from both Kevin Garnett and Jason Kidd after several practice sessions learning from them, and currently he is shooting 48FG% from the midrange this season as well.
@@danialpth what does shooting 3's have to do with being a real pf? Guys like dirk , Antoine walker , rasheed Wallace , and Antwan Jamison could shoot too and they were pfs.
I was a lob city era clippers fan so it was so amazing to see Blake create his own offense and facilitate for others. I really wish he didn’t force himself on the court for the playoffs.
And Al Jefferson as a post-dominant 4 (or small 5) on offense... dude was one of my favorite players to watch operating in the post. His instincts, footwork, and finesse around the rim were so silky smooth.
In every era there are positions that are either devalued, typecast, or simply lack generational talent. The early 2000s saw the "death" of the point guards, while the 2010s saw the "death" of the center. New eras provide new styles of basketball, it is as simple as that.
The late 2000's Orlando Magic's 4out-1in scheme worked so well because Rashard and Hedo were both 6'10". They didn't really lose any ceiling. And with both being so skilled in the perimeter, it allowed Howard to wreak havoc inside.
Mobley looking scary out there he seems to be really patient under control and methodical It’s like he’s moving at his own pace waiting for any opening
@@samhartje723eh he’s better as a 4 man, way more nimble and agile at his frame. He’s solid as an emergency center. Putting him as a full time center will have him putting on a bunch of unnecessary weight turning him into a Mitchell Robinson type player. Always injured
Their like the TE of the NBA. Don’t get recognized as much (or paid the same as other positions) but if a team has a good PF then they are typically a decent. Underrated position in today’s league. Good video!
Yep I'm fan of the Grizzlies. Jaren is a true power forward. Grizzlies also run the 5 position with Zach Edey. Remnants of the old NBA are still there.
@playably I mean size wise he's still a power forward, but skill wise even he's more of a small forward. He spends way more time at the three point line than a traditional 4 ever did
Trip J is kinda like all of these 4 mentioned PF play types.. combined in one, some days he trying to bruiser his way out some times he just shoots 3...
The Robert Horry effect. Before Steph made nba media realize math exists, Robert Horry moved from a 3 to a 4 for “spacing” around Dream and Shaq and Duncan. Once less post players were around, now everybody needs to shoot for real.
@@damonsonnier34the thing is horry is built to play the 3, whereas the two u listed are built to be 4s, the importance of the horry move is that he role swapped into a physically larger position, kinda like when bosh swapped to center
Robert horry has pedestrian stats and even from the three point line but his advance stats and offensive rating was so incredibly high! It’s like Reggie miller, LeBron James level of high rating and that includes the playoffs. His ability to stretch the floor as a big forward was so valueable
@ people underrate the difference in pace in the Shaq era. A lot of peoples numbers were down. League was set for 2 guys to score and the rest get scraps. Now it’s more possessions due to pace. Everybody gets a third scorer with decent averages and still others can get 10 points.
2000's was so stacked of elite and good quality PFs. Duncan, Dirk, KG, Webber, Sheed, Jermaine, Gasol, Kenyon, McDyes, Brand, Reef, Antoine Walker, Jamison
@@TheBest0704odom is a sf during their era. You may look back now and think of him as a stretch four. But back in the laker days, he was sf with Gasol and Bynum in the middle
Thank you so much for this video. This is my favorite position but it feels like it's just becoming "small forward but taller". The best power forwards are really the only ones still carrying the position's legacy somewhat.
Im half way through i had to stop and appreciate the work put in. Man this is good content bro, the narration and everything, i like the background music too. Keep em coming please. Can’t believe u don’t have more subs. New sub!
Probably because he doesnt interact with his viewers. If you have 10k or fewer subs, you should interact with your audience if you want to grow. This is the difference between TH-cam and ESPN. As of this second, he has 408 views on his first video and hasn't interacted with a single comment. I don't want to subscribe to that. Obviously, if you have 100k subs, you would need to make a bot to interact with subs but I know one 30k subs guy (Magic Mitch) that responds to every single comment and I really respect that
This was a great video! Great break down of old school power forwards to modern power forwards. I don't mind today's game. I just don't like the forced offensive sets just to shoot threes. Actually run offensive sets and get the best available. If I'm a coach, I would want ALL of my players to be as skilled as possible to optimize their skillsets to make the offense more unpredictable.
Love that video as my all time nba favorite position is the power forward. That’s great that you were able to find the great terminology for each era of four man as it is a hard thing to describe concisely. Would be great to do a video about the center position as a lot of power forward started playing the position and got thinner through time. Keep it up!
To my understanding from watching basketball , the role of forward means versatility. For example, I expect my small forward to be able to do a bit of everything but more to the perimeter side of the court mean while my power forward is the same as a small forward but does more paint oriented things. For example, Tim Duncan for power forward, he was the best at what a power forward does and was still a great player as a center. Next example is Scottie pippen, he was good at everything but excelled in perimeter defense and shoot creation where he could play the role of point forward. Forwards are like connectors between a guard and a big and without them, you will lose.
in an ever increasing sea of clickbait and ai generated slop content, we need to cherish talented up and coming creators like this. subbed and looking forward to more.
You got my sub man, this video was excellent, I never grew up watching ball n got involved during the 2020 season, but have a certain fondness for the Traditional 2000’s 4, with Duncan, Webber, and Garnett.
I really enjoyed the video and the history you gave. I hope you can make a follow up or another kind of video to also acknowledge the 70’s where the PF position also had great players. Even some that replicate our modern stretch 4 is someone like Dave DeBusschere and he was even 6’6”, which is something we see today.
Whats sad is this the position that made me start watching NBA in the first place. Really stacked talent at that time and now its just treated as secondary small forwards. Potential PFs are played as centers or become backup centers
Draymond can play anywhere from a 4 to a 5 to a 1 in one play sequence. Scottie Barnes is theoretically a small forward, but his skill set can fit anywhere from 1 to 3 to 4 to 5. Positional versatility now means size and skills matter more to avoid being “matchup hunted” by the offense.
This is so true. Last time we've ever seen an actual powerforward act like how they are traditionally since Giannis, Aaron Gordon, JJJ, and Zion is 2016 with KG, and Tim, and almost the entire career of Blake Griffin. Dirk plays like a guard who doesn't average many assists but instead rebounds, Kukoc plays too like a guard, Bron plays like a forward with Magic Johnson type playmaking, Tatum doesn't even act like a PF, Porzingis is just a tall shooting guard, KD has a small forward's body with shooting guard abilities, and alot more. The traditional Power forward position is dying soon. I Just hope someone can revive it soon.
Love your approach to the video. The biggest shift started w/ Dirk imo. Guys start off as small forwards and the league pushing them to the 4 as they did with Carmelo. Carmelo didn’t really want to be a pf but he was forced to in the middle of his career.
Don Nelson pioneered the face up/stretch/wing four, moving Rod Higgins, a three point shooting wing, which was pretty rare even at the three position at the time, over to the four during the 88-89 season.
Nelson was always WAAYY too far ahead of his time, trying to draft Webber to play the 5, in an era with crazy powerful centers, and convincing 7-7 Manute Bol to shoot threes. His ideas were scooped up by later coaches, like D'Antoni and Van Gundy, when the time was actually right for those changes.
I miss the traditional power forwards. I always love watching big guys barrel to the basket, leaving bodies in their wake. Giannis and Zion are the only true power forwards left. Even Mobley seems to like to post up more than others.
A lot of this is wrong including what JJ Reddict, Van Gundy and mike D'Antoni said as far as them being innovators of the 1-in-4-out. The Houston Rockets won their 2nd championship with 1-in-4-out with Hakeem, Horry, Mario Elie, Drexler and Kenny Smith. Horry at PF shot over 40% in the playoffs. When we first saw this as kids, we were like you the hell are you supposed to stop that? Phil Jackson then took the same formula and put Shaq, Horry, Fox, Kobe, Fisher. In the 3peat, Horry shot 39% from the 3 and was playing most of the minutes at PF in the playoffs.
@@biba8163 There were the Suns with Oliver Miller, Charles Barkley, Richard Dumas, Dan Majerle, Kevin Johnson, Cedric Ceballos, Tom Chambers, and Danny Ainge. They were also a 3-point shooting team as well.
@@KevoJr I think the first of the innovators were Rick Pitino and a lot of it was in college. He had Kentucky getting 1/3 of their points from the 3 and a 6'7 power forward Jamal Mashburn shooting 5 threes per game one year and averaging 43% 3PT another year. Pitino also had NY bombing 3s with even Oakley shooting 3s one year, then Antoine Walker as PF attempting 4 3s per game in Boston. Don Nelson has had years without a center much less a PF with 6'7 guys like Higgins and Tolbert playing the 4 and 5 positions.
You know mate, the 3 most underrated power forwards I can think of is Anthony Mason, Sam Perkins and Bobby Jones. Mason was a point power forward, Sam Perkins was a rebounding 3 point specialist (before Kevin Love) and Bobby Jones (who probably one of most versatile defenders of all time). 🙂 I forgot about Larry Johnson, Toni Kukoc and Rasheed Wallace too. 🙂
The first true Power Forward was Portland’s Maurice Lucas. Forwards that battled with centers who from the 50’s to the 90’s where the key position on the team.
the last true power forward who allowed to bang down low as a teams focal point was Zach Randolph. The last true post centers got phased out as well in Dwight and Drummond and Jordan. now its a bunch or wings playing "position less ball" so small ball and 3s can continue to be the style. this is why that kid Lofton wasn't allowed a real opportunity. Jahlil Okafor was turned off as well
He wasn't the best overall player by a mile (and at his defensive peak was average at best), but I was absolutely obsessed with Al Jefferson's offensive game. It was a beautiful thing to behold, a throwback even in his time.
McHale did not play during low pace era, the 80s had similar high pace as today's game. The biggest change that lead to the demise of the PF is the illegal defence rule being rescinded. With illegal defence it was much easier to post up as help side was basically forbidden. Then during the 00s illegal defence was gone and team defence greatly involved, especially when Tom Thibodeau brought the strong side overload to Boston. That's when spacing really became a necessity to bend the team defence and draw help defenders out of the paint.
As per the NBA's Q&A page: The power forward does many of the things a center does, playing near the basket while rebounding and defending taller players. But power forwards also take longer shots than centers. I see this prototype of player every night.
I think someone already made a video about the decline of PF and SG position. In the end he predicted that the future of Basket Ball line up will be a 1 Center, 1 Point Guard , and 3 Small Forward where everyone can decently handle the ball and shoot 3s. Idk if that is good or bad, but from recent trend I believe its inevitable.
Coming from a football (soccer) background, it's part of the evolution of sports in general. Expect a more fluid, team oriented game, with less creativity and even fewer stand out stars
Rodman definitely does NOT belong in the bruiser category. He was an ordinary starting small forward early in his career, but due to his defensive versatility and rebounding, he gradually took on the full time power forward role, but even then, his play was unique. He was never much of a post up threat, usually scoring off cuts or putbacks. At one point, he even started taking corner threes, making about 30% of them. Eventually, though, he mostly disappeared as a scoring threat, becoming the glue between the offensive players, especially in his Bulls run. Rodman was a light weight, and often listed taller than his real height. From a physical size standpoint, he looked the part of todays big wings.
Those late 80's/ early 90's Pistons actually gave a glimpse into the future, with a team led by two high scoring guards, with a wing-sized power forward, and a stretch 5 (Laimbeer). You can see some old tape of Isiah getting a screen out past the three point line in the late 80's with some regularity, in a league where that almost never happened.
LeBron was humiliated in his first Finals with the Heat, so he worked on his game, adding post skills to his arsenal. He then played mostly at the four the following season. While he had those point forward and slashing wing skills, he also had the size and post skills to play like a traditional 4. So it wasn't a big stretch to move him to the four.
Gotta put the 94-95 Houston Rockets in this conversation along with Phoenix and the Dwight Howard lead Orlando. During the playoffs they moved Robert Horry to the 4 to give Hakeem Olajuwon space to work. If Dream was double teamed he had 3 shooter to get the ball out to in Horry, Kenny Smith and Mario Elie. If they focused on the shooter then Dream killed them in the post.
PFs now have to have a solid handle and playmaking skills on offense, and play both the perimeter and paint on defense. i.e. Tatum, Giannis, KD, LBJ, Draymond, JDub, Paolo, Scottie Barnes, and Pascal Siakam. There's more but you can see the archetype. Instead of 6'10'-6'11' post players, it's mostly 6'5"-6'9" speedier athletic guys. Giannis is obviously an incredible outlier and Evan Mobley is probably the closest to a 90's PF a la KG.
scottie, j dub and tatum, kd are more like 3 in normal nba. Paolo and Siakam and giannis and even AD are the ones that would be a PF in traditional basketball world. WHile draymond is pretty special
Giannis is the only true Power Forward left. He inherited the Point Forward skills from both Kevin Garnett and Jason Kidd after several practice sessions learning from them, and currently he is shooting 48FG% from the midrange this season as well.
@@damonsonnier34 yea he’s easily the best PF (arguably player) in the game right now
Zion too, if he could stay on the court...
What about Paolo , Julius randle, an jaren Jackson ..what positions do they play?
@@12savage68they all can shoot. Giannis cant shoot 3s consistently
@@danialpth what does shooting 3's have to do with being a real pf? Guys like dirk , Antoine walker , rasheed Wallace , and Antwan Jamison could shoot too and they were pfs.
2019 Detroit Griffin was a joy to watch, underrated
Man gave his heart and soul for that team.
I was a lob city era clippers fan so it was so amazing to see Blake create his own offense and facilitate for others. I really wish he didn’t force himself on the court for the playoffs.
The most complete Blake ever was in his career. One of the most underrated individual seasons ever
@@exeterra4825facts I was just about to say the same thing. His game was the most well-rounded it had ever been and his outside shot was honed-in
Probably his best season. He was a complete player that year. Too bad, it was his last great season, because injuries destroyed him.
Chris Bosh deserved a mention amongst the finesse 4s
Absolutely, he credits Garnett and Duncan as players he modeled his game after
There's a lot to mention Chris Bosh, Jermaine O'Neal, Elton Brand, Amare stoudemire
@@shawnvargas9587yessir. Gotta put sheed and LA in there too man. Truly beautiful basketball back then man
And Al Jefferson as a post-dominant 4 (or small 5) on offense... dude was one of my favorite players to watch operating in the post. His instincts, footwork, and finesse around the rim were so silky smooth.
@@michaelcoletta4547lol you did not just say Al Jefferson 😂
the 4s today are just 3s
Yea the 4s of the past are basically extinct
I was going to say some teams run three wings which are pretty much 3s
@@Kizamusic4s back then were skilled 5s
@@KizamusicThere’s only a few left who start in the pros.
If you say that then you can also say the 5s are just 4s.
In every era there are positions that are either devalued, typecast, or simply lack generational talent. The early 2000s saw the "death" of the point guards, while the 2010s saw the "death" of the center. New eras provide new styles of basketball, it is as simple as that.
👏🏾👏🏾 preach
Cooper Flagg will bring the power forward back
@@often5851 alright
@@often5851💀
The point guard died because AI was so dominant that other teams and players thought it was a way to win. They were wrong
The late 2000's Orlando Magic's 4out-1in scheme worked so well because Rashard and Hedo were both 6'10". They didn't really lose any ceiling. And with both being so skilled in the perimeter, it allowed Howard to wreak havoc inside.
That team was such a beast that went to the Finals vs the Lakers
Mobley looking scary out there he seems to be really patient under control and methodical It’s like he’s moving at his own pace waiting for any opening
I would probably prefer him as a center though.
@@samhartje723 Why? That's Allen spot lol
@@samhartje723eh he’s better as a 4 man, way more nimble and agile at his frame. He’s solid as an emergency center. Putting him as a full time center will have him putting on a bunch of unnecessary weight turning him into a Mitchell Robinson type player. Always injured
I thought he'd be Duncan 🤷🏿♂️
@@DirectedXDWwell damn then what’s the ideal center lol
Really well done man. Stick to this you’re talented and a blow up is coming soon.
Their like the TE of the NBA. Don’t get recognized as much (or paid the same as other positions) but if a team has a good PF then they are typically a decent. Underrated position in today’s league. Good video!
More like fullback. Their prime, just like Fullbacks, were in the 90s-2000s.
Now only a few teams have a true PF, just true fullbacks
@@kibskibs498no its TE. like he said. People always twist with others say. He said what he said. Make your own comment and opinion.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Jaren Jackson Jr. he offers the perfect blend of the old school power forward and the modern version all in one.
Yep I'm fan of the Grizzlies. Jaren is a true power forward. Grizzlies also run the 5 position with Zach Edey. Remnants of the old NBA are still there.
@playably I mean size wise he's still a power forward, but skill wise even he's more of a small forward. He spends way more time at the three point line than a traditional 4 ever did
Trip J is kinda like all of these 4 mentioned PF play types.. combined in one, some days he trying to bruiser his way out some times he just shoots 3...
@@playably Hence the whole point of OP's comment?
Also Paolo Banchero
The Robert Horry effect. Before Steph made nba media realize math exists, Robert Horry moved from a 3 to a 4 for “spacing” around Dream and Shaq and Duncan. Once less post players were around, now everybody needs to shoot for real.
@@Ridewithdoc Before Robert Horry, there was Kevin Willis and Bob McAdoo. They were both Power Forwards who shot a lot from beyond the paint.
@@damonsonnier34 also Tom Chambers
@@damonsonnier34the thing is horry is built to play the 3, whereas the two u listed are built to be 4s, the importance of the horry move is that he role swapped into a physically larger position, kinda like when bosh swapped to center
Robert horry has pedestrian stats and even from the three point line but his advance stats and offensive rating was so incredibly high! It’s like Reggie miller, LeBron James level of high rating and that includes the playoffs. His ability to stretch the floor as a big forward was so valueable
@ people underrate the difference in pace in the Shaq era. A lot of peoples numbers were down. League was set for 2 guys to score and the rest get scraps. Now it’s more possessions due to pace. Everybody gets a third scorer with decent averages and still others can get 10 points.
The Power Foward position was always my favorite growing up. C Webb , Tim Duncan, KG, were some of my favorites
2000's was so stacked of elite and good quality PFs.
Duncan, Dirk, KG, Webber, Sheed, Jermaine, Gasol, Kenyon, McDyes, Brand, Reef, Antoine Walker, Jamison
Odom
Amare Stoudamire was terrific as well. Too bad his knee injuries shortened his career
@@MrRoda8143 Bosh
@@TheBest0704odom is a sf during their era. You may look back now and think of him as a stretch four. But back in the laker days, he was sf with Gasol and Bynum in the middle
@ I had Heat season tickets when Odom started at the 4 for a year
dude this is some high quality vids, you deserve more subs fr
Thank you so much for this video. This is my favorite position but it feels like it's just becoming "small forward but taller". The best power forwards are really the only ones still carrying the position's legacy somewhat.
Im half way through i had to stop and appreciate the work put in. Man this is good content bro, the narration and everything, i like the background music too. Keep em coming please. Can’t believe u don’t have more subs. New sub!
Probably because he doesnt interact with his viewers. If you have 10k or fewer subs, you should interact with your audience if you want to grow. This is the difference between TH-cam and ESPN. As of this second, he has 408 views on his first video and hasn't interacted with a single comment. I don't want to subscribe to that. Obviously, if you have 100k subs, you would need to make a bot to interact with subs but I know one 30k subs guy (Magic Mitch) that responds to every single comment and I really respect that
@@stewiegriffinfan18 good point bro💯
@@Justfrank_0 :)
Facts
This was a great video! Great break down of old school power forwards to modern power forwards. I don't mind today's game. I just don't like the forced offensive sets just to shoot threes. Actually run offensive sets and get the best available. If I'm a coach, I would want ALL of my players to be as skilled as possible to optimize their skillsets to make the offense more unpredictable.
There is only one dirk
You did some phenomenal research on this vid man bravo, was a great watch
Love that video as my all time nba favorite position is the power forward.
That’s great that you were able to find the great terminology for each era of four man as it is a hard thing to describe concisely.
Would be great to do a video about the center position as a lot of power forward started playing the position and got thinner through time.
Keep it up!
To my understanding from watching basketball , the role of forward means versatility. For example, I expect my small forward to be able to do a bit of everything but more to the perimeter side of the court mean while my power forward is the same as a small forward but does more paint oriented things. For example, Tim Duncan for power forward, he was the best at what a power forward does and was still a great player as a center. Next example is Scottie pippen, he was good at everything but excelled in perimeter defense and shoot creation where he could play the role of point forward.
Forwards are like connectors between a guard and a big and without them, you will lose.
Pippen is a small forward
@@edokhagbaisak6145 Read OP's comment again. You misunderstood.
in an ever increasing sea of clickbait and ai generated slop content, we need to cherish talented up and coming creators like this. subbed and looking forward to more.
A taller longer power forward can always be utilized as a center. As a 2 guard with good handles can be utilized as a point guard.
Thoughtful, knowledgeable, & comprehensive content. Keep up the good work
Better than so much basketball content on youtube; great job. Subscribed.
My favorite Position as a kid ❤️ nothing like watching the great power forwards of the 2000’s
Curious if the weight gain in 2010/2011 had anything to do with guys getting out of shape from the lockout that year
Good quality video, good shit ur channel gon grow
Fax this is quality
man i hope you blow up this video was so well done man hats off to you you gained me as a sub
Great vid bro I love that you just kept going through examples really went deep in the bag
Rarely have i watched such a good and unbiased video about basket recently. Very good stuff there mate 👍.
Great video, on point analysis, you're criminally undersubscribed!
Great video! The death of the power forward is something I’ve been thinking about quite a bit over the years.
That’s how sports are always evolving. You either adapt or you’re goner.
Insanely good video man. Great attention to detail.
You got my sub man, this video was excellent, I never grew up watching ball n got involved during the 2020 season, but have a certain fondness for the Traditional 2000’s 4, with Duncan, Webber, and Garnett.
I really enjoyed the video and the history you gave. I hope you can make a follow up or another kind of video to also acknowledge the 70’s where the PF position also had great players.
Even some that replicate our modern stretch 4 is someone like Dave DeBusschere and he was even 6’6”, which is something we see today.
Very true
Yooo this video was so good. Loved how you broke everything down. Subscribed!
Rusty buckets made this video like a year ago, better researched and edited, imo this is kinda copycat
@ You want a medal for pointing this out?
Sweet video hella detail love this!!!
Draymond Green was the prototype 3&D "tweener" 4. He steps up to play the "speed 5" in death lineups that want to go fast.
Amazing content u just gained a new fan
Whats sad is this the position that made me start watching NBA in the first place. Really stacked talent at that time and now its just treated as secondary small forwards. Potential PFs are played as centers or become backup centers
Draymond can play anywhere from a 4 to a 5 to a 1 in one play sequence. Scottie Barnes is theoretically a small forward, but his skill set can fit anywhere from 1 to 3 to 4 to 5.
Positional versatility now means size and skills matter more to avoid being “matchup hunted” by the offense.
This is so true. Last time we've ever seen an actual powerforward act like how they are traditionally since Giannis, Aaron Gordon, JJJ, and Zion is 2016 with KG, and Tim, and almost the entire career of Blake Griffin. Dirk plays like a guard who doesn't average many assists but instead rebounds, Kukoc plays too like a guard, Bron plays like a forward with Magic Johnson type playmaking, Tatum doesn't even act like a PF, Porzingis is just a tall shooting guard, KD has a small forward's body with shooting guard abilities, and alot more. The traditional Power forward position is dying soon. I Just hope someone can revive it soon.
I did not know Zion was already in the league in 2016
@ Dude you're dyslexic
Love your approach to the video. The biggest shift started w/ Dirk imo. Guys start off as small forwards and the league pushing them to the 4 as they did with Carmelo. Carmelo didn’t really want to be a pf but he was forced to in the middle of his career.
Dirk is 7ft so he'd be a center. Rly
@ KD 7ft too & he don’t wanna be nowhere near the center spot lol
@@ninjaoftherift1620 Dirk was considered soft back then didn't want to protect the paint as the last line of the defense
@@andrebryant5081 that’s a fact
Don Nelson pioneered the face up/stretch/wing four, moving Rod Higgins, a three point shooting wing, which was pretty rare even at the three position at the time, over to the four during the 88-89 season.
Nelson was always WAAYY too far ahead of his time, trying to draft Webber to play the 5, in an era with crazy powerful centers, and convincing 7-7 Manute Bol to shoot threes. His ideas were scooped up by later coaches, like D'Antoni and Van Gundy, when the time was actually right for those changes.
The power forward position was so deep back then
This is brilliant content. Thank you so much for such a well crafted video.
I miss the traditional power forwards. I always love watching big guys barrel to the basket, leaving bodies in their wake. Giannis and Zion are the only true power forwards left. Even Mobley seems to like to post up more than others.
A lot of this is wrong including what JJ Reddict, Van Gundy and mike D'Antoni said as far as them being innovators of the 1-in-4-out. The Houston Rockets won their 2nd championship with 1-in-4-out with Hakeem, Horry, Mario Elie, Drexler and Kenny Smith. Horry at PF shot over 40% in the playoffs. When we first saw this as kids, we were like you the hell are you supposed to stop that? Phil Jackson then took the same formula and put Shaq, Horry, Fox, Kobe, Fisher. In the 3peat, Horry shot 39% from the 3 and was playing most of the minutes at PF in the playoffs.
Yea there are a lot more instances well before my time where non traditional forwards were starting at PF. The list runs super deep!
@@biba8163 There were the Suns with Oliver Miller, Charles Barkley, Richard Dumas, Dan Majerle, Kevin Johnson, Cedric Ceballos, Tom Chambers, and Danny Ainge. They were also a 3-point shooting team as well.
@@KevoJr I think the first of the innovators were Rick Pitino and a lot of it was in college. He had Kentucky getting 1/3 of their points from the 3 and a 6'7 power forward Jamal Mashburn shooting 5 threes per game one year and averaging 43% 3PT another year. Pitino also had NY bombing 3s with even Oakley shooting 3s one year, then Antoine Walker as PF attempting 4 3s per game in Boston. Don Nelson has had years without a center much less a PF with 6'7 guys like Higgins and Tolbert playing the 4 and 5 positions.
You know mate, the 3 most underrated power forwards I can think of is Anthony Mason, Sam Perkins and Bobby Jones. Mason was a point power forward, Sam Perkins was a rebounding 3 point specialist (before Kevin Love) and Bobby Jones (who probably one of most versatile defenders of all time). 🙂 I forgot about Larry Johnson, Toni Kukoc and Rasheed Wallace too. 🙂
Great video bro, keep going.
The first true Power Forward was Portland’s Maurice Lucas.
Forwards that battled with centers who from the 50’s to the 90’s where the key position on the team.
Truly high quality content
Nice video, i love seeing the evolution
Great breakdown
Love the bruisers
the last true power forward who allowed to bang down low as a teams focal point was Zach Randolph. The last true post centers got phased out as well in Dwight and Drummond and Jordan. now its a bunch or wings playing "position less ball" so small ball and 3s can continue to be the style. this is why that kid Lofton wasn't allowed a real opportunity. Jahlil Okafor was turned off as well
Dude, GREAT analysis. Original and interesting.
Rusty Bucket pretty much made the same video with the same title years ago.
Excellent analysis!
Video going viral... great work💯💯
High basketball iq in this video, I’m expecting a lot more of this young fella. New subscriber!
This is elite research, bro. Keep it up. You'll beat Jimmy Highroller with this kind of presentation.
4 out 1 in for me is the best blend of everthing. an elite post up scorer with elite shooters. perfect mix of past and present
Boris Diaw the real finesse 4
good video and analysis bro!!
Solid breakdown bro
This is some good content brother good work
Cant make a video about PF in this Era without Giannis is the Epitopy of new era PF ,Can play C,PG and wing on Offence and can guard everything
Great video my guy, very good research
This was a good stuff! Bravo!
Great video!! New fan.
The power forward in the Women's game is on the rise.
He wasn't the best overall player by a mile (and at his defensive peak was average at best), but I was absolutely obsessed with Al Jefferson's offensive game. It was a beautiful thing to behold, a throwback even in his time.
I learned so much from this vid
Hey dude, this is fabulous. Thanks
Very insightful video. Well done.
I’m a simple man. I see OG in the video thumbnail, I click
McHale did not play during low pace era, the 80s had similar high pace as today's game. The biggest change that lead to the demise of the PF is the illegal defence rule being rescinded. With illegal defence it was much easier to post up as help side was basically forbidden. Then during the 00s illegal defence was gone and team defence greatly involved, especially when Tom Thibodeau brought the strong side overload to Boston. That's when spacing really became a necessity to bend the team defence and draw help defenders out of the paint.
As per the NBA's Q&A page: The power forward does many of the things a center does, playing near the basket while rebounding and defending taller players. But power forwards also take longer shots than centers.
I see this prototype of player every night.
Great video
I think someone already made a video about the decline of PF and SG position. In the end he predicted that the future of Basket Ball line up will be a 1 Center, 1 Point Guard , and 3 Small Forward where everyone can decently handle the ball and shoot 3s. Idk if that is good or bad, but from recent trend I believe its inevitable.
Coming from a football (soccer) background, it's part of the evolution of sports in general. Expect a more fluid, team oriented game, with less creativity and even fewer stand out stars
Inevitable and boring.
Great Video man!
Rodman definitely does NOT belong in the bruiser category. He was an ordinary starting small forward early in his career, but due to his defensive versatility and rebounding, he gradually took on the full time power forward role, but even then, his play was unique. He was never much of a post up threat, usually scoring off cuts or putbacks. At one point, he even started taking corner threes, making about 30% of them. Eventually, though, he mostly disappeared as a scoring threat, becoming the glue between the offensive players, especially in his Bulls run. Rodman was a light weight, and often listed taller than his real height. From a physical size standpoint, he looked the part of todays big wings.
Those late 80's/ early 90's Pistons actually gave a glimpse into the future, with a team led by two high scoring guards, with a wing-sized power forward, and a stretch 5 (Laimbeer). You can see some old tape of Isiah getting a screen out past the three point line in the late 80's with some regularity, in a league where that almost never happened.
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GREAT VIDEO. GREAT BREAKDOWNS. PROPS..
LeBron was humiliated in his first Finals with the Heat, so he worked on his game, adding post skills to his arsenal. He then played mostly at the four the following season. While he had those point forward and slashing wing skills, he also had the size and post skills to play like a traditional 4. So it wasn't a big stretch to move him to the four.
Keep working hard bro ✊🏾
5 minutes in, you earned a sub.
Good breakdown man! Do centers next!
Phenomenal video.
Great analysis,
late 90s and early 2000's are the golden age of PF.
Couldn't even come up with an original title? This is the dollar store version of Rusty's masterpiece.
Jokic is a traditional PF playing at the Center position now. We're seeing a transformation at the 5 now.
no he’s a centre
No he is not
Gotta put the 94-95 Houston Rockets in this conversation along with Phoenix and the Dwight Howard lead Orlando. During the playoffs they moved Robert Horry to the 4 to give Hakeem Olajuwon space to work. If Dream was double teamed he had 3 shooter to get the ball out to in Horry, Kenny Smith and Mario Elie. If they focused on the shooter then Dream killed them in the post.
On the NBA it is there are other leagues too. Arguably one of the best position on international basketball.
PFs now have to have a solid handle and playmaking skills on offense, and play both the perimeter and paint on defense. i.e. Tatum, Giannis, KD, LBJ, Draymond, JDub, Paolo, Scottie Barnes, and Pascal Siakam. There's more but you can see the archetype. Instead of 6'10'-6'11' post players, it's mostly 6'5"-6'9" speedier athletic guys. Giannis is obviously an incredible outlier and Evan Mobley is probably the closest to a 90's PF a la KG.
scottie, j dub and tatum, kd are more like 3 in normal nba. Paolo and Siakam and giannis and even AD are the ones that would be a PF in traditional basketball world. WHile draymond is pretty special
You could argue that the SG has taken just as big of a hit.
forgot to shoe some love to chris bosh for the fusion fours, he was lowkey a glimpse of what was to come
Good shout
Get this dude a podcast!! Every video he puts out is a solid take. I appreciate the time and effort he’s putting into these videos keep it up💯
I’ve been wondering about this very question for quite some time now 🏀
Good breakdown
Thank you for reminding me basketball is a tactical game.