DOPE CONVERSATIONS: Foreigners in South Africa: Debate Between Ike Khumalo & Rutendo Matinyarare
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- Following up from a Twitter war of words, and videos from both gentlemen sizing each other up, Penuel The Black Pen decided to invite them to a mediated debate on the issue of foreigners in South Africa, in particular African foreigners, Zimbabweans and all illegal foreigners.
The issue of immigration, borders and foreign matters has been a burning issue in South Africa in the past few years, especially with Operation Dudula gaining prominence in 2022.
People like Herman Mashaba, Gayton McKenzie, Julius Malema, Dr Aaron Motsoaledi & Nhlanhla Lux have been vocal in varying ways on these topics.
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Chapters:
0:00 - Introductions
1:23 - Participant Backgrounds
3:06 - Industry and Immigration History
6:55 - Regional Relationships and Immigration
9:04 - Lack of African unity
13:06 - Expecting Southern African Union unity
15:04 - Past immigration experiences
21:02 - Immigration agreements
24:02 - Liberation Support and Military Actions
27:04 - Support during liberation
32:06 - Apartheid South Africa attacks Zimbabwe
40:08 - History's relevance for South Africans
41:45 - Regional Support and Relevance
45:04 - Foreigners, Industry, and Crime
52:48 - Denouncing Criminal Foreigners
57:00 - Proxy Wars and Battles
1:07:00 - Proxy Wars and Support
1:10:38 - Shifting focus to solutions for foreigners
1:12:33 - South Africa - Zimbabwe relations addressed
1:22:14 - Solutions: Arguing for a pan-African bank and currency
1:24:45 - Supporting Local Businesses and Holding Politicians Accountable
1:25:21 - Solution: Foreigners Must Go Home
1:31:55 - Solutions: Restitution of Black South Africans' Losses
1:38:40 - Resolving the Issue with South Africans Wanting Foreigners to Leave
Thank you for tuning into this important debate and discussion.
Please post questions & comments you would like me to raise in the next sitdown.
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We appreciate your support 🙏🏽❤️
Bra Ike you made is very SIMPLE, u broke it down to the simplest form for everyone to understand. You didnt need all the political jargon...thank you...
Here is a question Pen, please ask Rutendo if he does acknowledge Zanu's bad governance is the reason why there is mass migration into SA? Because the Zim situation and tribal hate in the country is not on Sanctions
Ask Rutendo why he has so many solutions for South Africa's problems but doesn't want to go back home and apply that big brain of his to his country's problems, the guy doesn't even want to go home to vote.
My question is do these guys really think Africa will be 'liberated' or stable with Integration? Shouldn't we try to push for segration? Get one country to share a similar way of life and culture.
Clearly pan Africanism has not worked as a concept the outputs is horrendous to say the least. There is no accountability, listening to Rutendo all Zim problems start with SA and ends with SA.
My question is:
1. Is integration (pan Africanism) as concept working for South Africa or Africa?
2. Are Zim actually able to find solutions to their own problems instead of blaming everyone even dbsa or sabc. I mean Pen talks a lot about an alternative to SA media that's what you guys have done with podcasts. Why isn't there a Zim podcaster doing the samething creating the alternative.
@@NinohBrown Integration has been shoved down our throats globally as something desirable and anyone who dares question it as the best way to structure our societies is immediately attacked as being a racist and/or xenophobe. It's a fact that societies that are homogenous in terms of language, cultures, ethnicities and a possess a single shared national identity tend to be more socially cohesive. Look at Japan, The Scandanavian countries, China, etc. Pan-Africanism will never work, too much variation in language, and culture in Africa. We are already contending with tribalism in S.A, now imagine if we tried integrating all these different tribes and cultures into one.
As a Zimbabwean who lives in Zimbabwe I think Ike is on point Zimbabweans should just come back home and deal with our economy and leave South Africans to deal with their challenges. Ordinary South Africans don't owe anyone anything
Deal with the economy how😂
Yea u must take ur zim people and rule ur own country before other immigration take ur zim country.
I agree. They voted to chase farmers out and destroy an economy, just like we are doing. If you vote for this you must suffer. Don't chase farmers out and then come to their country looking for food. Rather watch your brother's doing exactly the same in our criminally run junk status.
It's not that easy, I think what South African should've done is make a case to lift all those sanctions cause you guys might not have the resources, that would go a long way in balancing both states.
Uyahlanya wena thina since I was at school the only place I know when I finish school is Joz manje uzama ukuthini wena hlala wena eZimbabwe
As a foreigner I am grateful to South Africa bcoz there is no other country that would have allowed me to accomplish what I have living as a free Black Man...South African people and institutions have welcomed me and I dont consider them hostile or irrational...People must also understand that South Africa is a Post-Colonial State and there is a limit to its capacity given its own challenges...SA has done a lot more for Africans than other African Countries have or would have done...SA doesn't have infinite capacity so people have to deal with that at some point
Thank you!
Tell them pls
As a foreigner, I agree with you 100 percent. Also I think it's important to state that these two do not represent everyone. Rutendo and Ike do not represent everyone.
Well said, thank you 🙏🏻
How I wish Politicians would fix the country so people don’t feel threatened anymore. I wish that we would live in harmony. I love myself so much that I see myself in every black person.
We have now been overcrowded, overtaken, overwhelmed, overpowered, dominated by a migration crisis
That is because you had corrupt people at the border who were accepting money to let them through.
So what
@@user-to9vk1vs3s So we have 10x the competition. wheres your common sense
We need strong black men like IKE to come out and challenge this situation, it’s already out of hand. I have so much respect him.
As a foreigner, what is happening in SA other countries wnt tolerate it i dnt blame south africans when they are angry .
I hate all foreigners living our country
That is true
GO TO YOUR COUNTRY THEN
Rutendo is good at addressing history but not current issues. He says nothing about part-time refugees who go home Easter and Christmas.
lol part-time refugees 😂
😂😂😂
I think what he is saying, is difficult for you to understand.
Rutendo is a clown. He just reads history and comes to these podcasts to talk nonsense. The guy doesn’t believe Friday comes before Saturday.
It's everybody's fault but Zimbabwe 😅
Thank you Adv Khumalo, for being honest about South Africa and being a true patriot.
Thanks Ike ,we r very proud of you as South Africans
Zimbabweans tend to look down on South Africans, they have this condescending attitude towards us and continue to call us lazy yet they are enjoying the fruits of our labour
The country doesnt belong to you because you have an ID. We all belong to SA with our mixed heritage. Africa is one and let that sink in your head. You rather love and embrace whites and indians and hate those who look like you and related to you😂😂
which labor baba
😂😂
@@cadencendhlovu2492 🤣😂😂
@@cadencendhlovu2492 the one we used to build this country
Rutendo is starting to sound like that friend who plugged you with a job and start feeling entitled to your salary forever , we can't be held hostage by history and entitlement
Ahhhhhh🤣😂
😂
Lol😂😂😂
😂😂😂
I cant even buy a house in my own country let alone get an RDP so a Zimbabwean is entitled to my rights as a citizen of South Africa. Basically Retendo is saying we owe Zimbabweans every thing we have. A South African has no right to own rights. Zimbabwean saved us so we owe them our Constitutional rights.
South Africans don't owe Zimbabweans a cent. Zimbabweans must work together and build Zimbabwe for themselves.
Ike Khumalo we agree 100%
As a foreigner, I feel incredibly grateful to South Africa. This country has bestowed upon us a valuable gift: protection, education, and freedom that many of us lacked in our home countries. I strongly believe that history should be made mandatory in education systems worldwide. By learning about the past, we can educate ourselves and avoid repeating the same mistakes. History has the power to guide us and save us from a lot of unnecessary trouble. Thank you, South Africa, for being a beacon of hope and opportunity for so many of us.
No sense of intitlement in your response, you're a brother of mine, and I wish the best for you and your family
BOT
My only concern is why are you QUIET when the other foreigners are doing all these things that South Africans are labelling and painting you blacker than black? Why don't you call out and shame your brothers who are not seen as Africans in South Africa. You need to be seen to be doing something not just praise South Africa!
China and other African countries was sanctioned as well but you'll never hear Chinese those other African countries pointing fingers, only the Zimbabweans and why are they all flocking to SA
no history is a waste of Time we must watch it for fun in our drama TV we need economic power not past that is not revelation to our current time
What's confusing me is that Zimbabweans have so many answers for South Africa (how South african economy should be structured) yet they can't solve Zimbabwean' economic situation... HAI ngeke bafwethu ake nizame okunye. Why study South African problems in such a way that you can even come up with solutions but can't come up with solutions for your own economy...
100 million dollars every day? This Rutando is smoking something strong.
Im a Zimbabwean in S.A . undocumented 🙈. I feel so embarrassed that we are stooping so low to the extend of bringing history to justify our invasion of this country . We need to put our house in order as Zimbabweans
No its not stooping low wen you seeking assistance from family,we will never be free until we Unite.
Well said brother, I respect you for having said that
@@user-en4fi2bf8dUnite how? By forcefully being here,? That's not unity but display of arrogance for not wanting to face your own problems at home and holding SA at ransom for the mistakes made by your politicians.
South Africa does not want to unite with all Africans here but we want you all to go home and make your countries to be economically stable, so that we can also be able to deal with our social issues. Only then we can cooperate and do business together. There won't be any uniting done in SA!!
So you need to go back and do things right. Please stop being disrespectful.
The honest and somewhat funny confession 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣❤️🔥
I like Ike Khumalo, he represented us ordinary South Africans very well. I didn’t know him before this debate and now I want to know more about him…
He is a member of operation dudula
@@siyanomagqwathekane3581nope he left operation Dudula he said it has been infiltrated by ppl looking for money
@@kimjongun1777 poor judgement?
Ike is been there through and through, he is consistence since started.
That's how I felt after watching, an interview between Penuel and Gayton, I love this Penuel, he is doing better job than Sabc🙄👌
Thank you for bringing that South African advocate who is so clear and honest about the South African situation.
😊😊
"They chased white farmers away and now they run after the same white farmers in South Africa to work for them." ADV IKE 😂😂😂😂
I agree 100% with you. But why is south Africa now doing the same, chasing white farmers away...if we as south Africans can just work together we can be the most prosperous country, but instead we fight one another ...we should be fighting for our country not amongst each other. Let's get foreigners out and employ south Africans in south africa
@@tomdewaal3134 work together with who?
@@tomdewaal3134And do what with the farms.Can you manage a farm
South Africa MUST fix their immigration policy.
Our immigration policy is ok but ur climbing crocodile in Limpopo river so immigration policy won’t apply to illegal foreigners as crocodiles can’t stamp passports 😂
Rutendo debate is aimed at blaming RSA for Zim problems, we do not owe Zimbabwe a cent, this debate is out of context, are we now in a history class or the issue of foreigners in RSA? to be precise not only Zim but all foreigners at large.
Zim doesn't owe Zimbabwe billions of dollars as Rutendo claims . Neither did Zim liberated SA . Rutendo go back to Zimbabwe nd fix it
South Africa owes Zimbabwe big time.
on behalf of South Africans we're rooting for Ike Khumalo
Ike needs to go tp law school in zimbabwe where we learnt history that apartheid has hid to millions of SAs. Sad
Ike is dull. He sounds unread
Sit down gentlemen the episode wasn't about history lessons. It was about the issue of foreigners in our country. Your Rutendo guy was tweaking history for benefit anyway
@@tereraijaravaza8091problem u here talking about law while ur educate law in ur country can't even protect your ass
@@tereraijaravaza8091 we are not talking history we are talking current situation here...
Angola Played such a huge role in the liberation struggle of Namibia..and thats why until today an Angolan is not seen as a foreigner in Namibia..personally as a child of someone who was raised in refugee camps..My father taught me to show gratitude and love to the people of Angola,Tanzania ,Zambia and Cuba..they went out of their way for Namibia 🇳🇦🇳🇦….and we shall pass on that gratitude to many of our generations to come.
West Africans flooding our borders? Africa is about to find itself in a huge war. Everywhere globalism as back fired, and you keep pushing anti white nonsense for what Latin Europe not white People do . The time is a ALREADY here as blacks are rising up against each other because of west Africa
I wish we as south Africa could learn that
Passing gratitude and demanding resources are two very different things.
All that this conversation showed me is that people feel we owe them our lives! We are nothing without them. So they can do as they please. That's why we are not speaking about the current situation but stating the lies that happened over 40 years ago.
Africa and it's communism... it's why the regime Pre 94 waged a war on communism. You can't work with a communist and the DA is a prime example of it
South Africans were in their country fighting their struggle, our uncles and aunts were ducking bullets, didn't pack their bags , Zimbabweans are fighting their struggle on social media in foreign lands and hope for change, can't even go for few days to go vote, this blackmail by Zimbabweans around history doesn't hold any waters, if you love your country that much you'll fight for it like South Africans did
Exe me bruu wat did South Africans for kahle kahle
And wat did we achieve
You were given freedom not independence…you won the wrong war hence the economy is still in the hands of the oppressor and you have nothing to show for it
100 percent true , what they doing is really pathetic
Ducking bullets indeed but according to Rutendo Zimbabwe liberated SA 😂😂😂
As a 🇨🇲, I will always be grateful for South Africa. The most friendly country in the world in my opinion
I wish to visit Duala some day
How many countries have you traveled to ??😢
@seanmikaeel90s50 Things are bad. But we take it for granted things are really bad out there.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 bruh like really
Too friendly for own good hey.😢I would even say it's detrimental to an extent.
Rutendo loves the sound of his own voice and his views are right according to him and others must tool and not disagree. Fact of the matter is this, South Africa remains one of the few countries that is inclusive and allows foreigners to live out their dreams outside they're homeland. I dare him to go to Nigeria and have these kind of debates and lets see what happens to him.
Who are you and where are you from?
@@nothingnothing5183 take a not so wild guess where I'm from.
Truth hurts.
@@moeketsimosidi2140 South Africa
We foreigners we had & still have freedom to access everything in SA but we abuse it!
To add to what you say foreigners label South Africans as lazy and uneducated but they cannot help their country to be like SA economically with the kind of education and willingness to work hard they claim to possess.
Do you have ID
You fool
Rutendo knows the history of both countries. However, he clearly avoided discussing the contemporary issue of migration.
He is trained to deflect abd was allowed to waste our time with history that is irrelevant to the current problems of illegal migration.
He spreads disinformation cause he knows the audience won't d their own research
He will not talk of migration koz it's his uncles the Shona who are in power looting and mismanaging the economy him he is a beneficiary of the system he will never say anything bad about them unomsangano enhlokweni yakhe
And he failed dismally, he made sure to run away from those questions
He's known for twisting history to suit his own narrative on Twitter
He's a liar!
Ike won this debate. Rutendo is smart, but does not have a sufficient argument as to why Zimbabweans and other illegal foreigners should be in South Africa. We have to be for South Africans first. No other country in the world allows illegal foreigners to do what they want in their country except for South Africa.
Rutendo just has the ability to speak beyond that it’s all lies and nonsense, regurgitating some propaganda lines is nonsense
I am from Botswana, we too are tired of Zimbabweans. Truly. We are tired of their crimes. Harassing our women. We are tired. Ike is right that there are certain crimes that you know right away are perpetuated by Zims. I support the put South Africans first movement. You can't be oppressed by other Africans in your own country.
He is not smart he only has information
I feel grateful as a Kenyan to have had the opportunity to hear the diverse perspectives of Icke Khumalo and Rutendo Matinyarare. Their insightful ideas highlight the significance of history in understanding our present challenges. While acknowledging our past, it's essential not to dwell on it excessively, recognizing that today's issues differ somewhat from those of the past.
As Africans in the 21st century, we must approach our challenges comprehensively as a continent. With the advancements in technology and access to information, we have the tools to enhance our economies and formulate effective policies. It's crucial to utilize these resources wisely, ensuring they're not squandered through corruption and mismanagement.
Furthermore, we should move away from the culture of blaming others for our setbacks. While recognizing past mistakes is important, dwelling on them serves no purpose. Instead, we should focus on reclaiming our self-reliance and working towards prosperity. I envision a unified Africa where countries collaborate, share ideas, capital, and resources for mutual benefit.
"Its every one's fault but Zimbabweans "said Ike
According to him it's South Africans fault hebanna this guy instead of fighting for your own country he sat more than an hour hour saying South Africa this South Africa that
Rutendo lies so much it is so sad that Ike and Penuel are not informed enough to challenge him
Rutendo creates stories, if Ike focused on clarifying his mentally created history, the interview was not going to discuss any relevant current issues. Ike swayed the interview to mention the current challenges.
Ww all know history and we are talking about current issues.
The fact that Ntate Ike had to deal with this entitlement, 0 accountability. Penuel do better as a mediator next time
My God this is one of your best thing .I love advocate Ike South African first .My husband went to Zimbabwe in 2018 he was timeously reminded that at this day you must be out of Zimbabwe but here is a different story.
They do that but our people are not talking about it. But the same Shona who are in power are not telling you about tribalism and that all government post are reserved for Shona speaking including private sector jobs
On reflection, I agree with both parties point of view though, I thought Rutendo overplayed Zimbabwe's contributions to South Afruca's liberation. At the same time I didn't agree with my dear brother Ike's simplification and lack of recognition of the role that other African countries played towards the removal of apartheid. The biggest problem was that the debate narrowed towards Zimbabweans as if they are the only foreigners in South Africa. Rutendo downplayed the Gukurahundi issue. That was genocide committed by a fringe of highly tribalisitic Shona hegemonists who, up to today, have a pathological hatred of Ndebeles. Yes, geopolitics played a major role in fermenting that genocide but, it's Mugabe and his courtier of tribal murderers who massacred Ndebeles for failing to speak Shona. Rutendo avoided that.
Secondly, while Rutendo was to some extent correct from a historical perspective, he deliberately avoided to mention that when Mugabe and his gang went after the Ndebeles, the ANC and Umkhonto Wesizwe face the same wrath. That is fact and many of our people know that ZanuPf killed many cadres of MK simply because they were viewed as sympathetic to ZIPRA and Ndebeles.
To my dear brother Ike, please try to understand that many of Zimbabweans in South Africa are there because of genuine reasons, particularly the Ndebeles, many of whom have South African ancestry. However, criminals must be treated as criminals, noone I think, is suggesting that South Africans must tolerate criminality even Rutendo did not say that. I travel to Zimbabwe many times and the general populace are a peace loving people. For the sake of space, I will stop here.
Ike speaks about practical issues that we from the ghettos of SA relate very well with , while Rutendo is speaking more from an academic and research led narrative , but we need more of these conversations , and the facilitator has done his homework.
Well put
true rutendo talking history and war we have a problem now and that's what Ike talking
Very very true
Rutendo or whatever that immigrant is called , speaks from a ZANU PF perspective. He insults our people each time he opens that mouth.
@@thetower5184history is the study of the past, present and future events... Food for thought
Rutendo spoke 75% of the time telling us history... he always go off topic and discuss history.
It is a strategy, they train you to dominate the discussion and talk too long so that the opponent and the interviewer does not get the chance to question you. You control the narrative.
He has no solutions for Zim but for SA
Rutendo said nothing when he was asked about the solution....😅
@@jabulilemlaka6253Because the solution starts with free and fair elections in Zim, something ZANU PF will never accept. And he makes it a point to not touch even the low hanging fruit.
@revolution475 yoo hayi. We live in a sick world. He is not a revolutionary.
As much as I respect Rutendo as a Zimbabwean, I think he kept on interrupting Khumalo. Yes you addressed the history of Zim and SA but you did not address the problems and solutions to these problems.
South Africa has been welcoming to Africans but some of us have abused this welcome in form of supplying drugs and robbery. Pan Africanism is not all about Africans coming to destroy other Afrìcan countries but to uphold our morals and cultural values.
On the other hand, South Africans must not paint every Zimbabwean with the same brush, there are quite a number of good and honest Zimbabweans who survive through honest means but I think the issue lies in the mass exodus of Zimbabweans to South Africa and I thought you could address the causes of this mass exodus instead of dwelling on History.
This was a significant discussion and great talking point ever done in a podcast community. Great work Penuel!
Ike Khumalo understands the assignment ❤️🙏🏻
Held no punches 😂
What’s the assignment?Instil hate and divide each other?That Ike guy is evil and represents bad society .
@@kumbiektw😂l😂l😂😂l
@@kumbiektwThe evil one is that ZANU PF pervert that Ike is debating with. How wish he could leave our country .
@@kumbiektw we love him
This Benson guy like to quote irrelevant history! Bra Ike represented very well. Thank you bra Ike
Uyazi i was surprised to see Ike in the driving mood cruising so well he really didn't disappoint like Rutendo who had no points at all.Rutendo went overdrive trying to obscure the burning issue of immigration.there is this lie that Zanu and Mugabe contributed in assisting ANC to fight the Apartheid government it really irritates me because Zanu even arrested some MK comrades for having links with Zapu
Ike...i like it when you mentioned that Zimbabweans they label them selves as refugees but come December and April Easter holidays they go back home.....what type of refugee have free movement as they wish ?? Kumnandi emzantsi....
True 😂😂😂😂😂
Ike, thank you for representing us the ordinary South African so well. Haaayi wena Rutendo you are high on something i believe because this 'sense of entitlement' is sickening 💔 it's giving a not woke person vibe😢... You can't still be holding on to history like the ANC is... heal my brother from the ancient wounds, and go back to your own countries (all foreigners) and deal with your own struggles for the sake of your children and leave us alone to deal with ours as you can clearly see that we are engulfed by our own troubles... South Africa can not house the whole of Africa, it does not have unlimited resources as you can clearly see because you 🙄 live here, even if we maybe owed you for what your countries did for us a loooong time ago when they did, we surely must have paid our debt now. Ike said something very important that even if our people ran to other countries for refuge it was but only a few of them NOT the entire SA bathong. Don't be helping our government with it's porous laws to oppress the people of this country. ALL FOREIGNERS MUST JUST GO BACK TO THEIR OWN COUNTRIES EXCEPT FOR THOSE COMING HERE WITH SCARCE SKILLS.
I want part 2 and please Rutendo give Khumalo a chance to speak.
"THEY MUST GO HOME" 🙏🏾
We already home😂🇿🇦🇿🇦
You think South Africa belongs to you but you don't own any property or have title deeds: Malema
The attitude that Ike is complaining about of foreigners thinking they are smarter than South Africans was displayed today.
We love our African brothers but they must come in legally, respect our laws and citizens
ARE YOU SAYING THAT ABOUT THE COLONIZERS/WHITES THE SAME?
@@MoorenaEl Just obey the laws of the land what we do with whites in SA is our business.
Rutendo is not addressing the real issues. He is talking history.
You have to know your history to move forward
@@kudzimarufu6332 hopeful next time he will focus on the issues at hand.
He is always like this. Let him fix Zimbabwe
I thought he wil give us a solution 😮
Strategy
Zims deserve to be in zim and fix their country
Part-time refugees who go home Easter and Christmas😂😂 chased whites out of Zim and come to work for them in SA😂😂
Exactly!
Exactly, they overstayed their welcome.
yet you have south africans in europe , china , amerika and even other african coutnries...there are many boers in sadc....so we will continue to come to SA whether you like it or not
@@fin2-em2mfwhat's your point?
WE NEED A PART TWO OF THIS DEBATE
It's good to see Ike on our socials again hle... How I miss you bru
After listening to Rutendo's submission, Zimboz are not interested in fixing Zim period
Exactly
You nail it at the head 🤞
I totally agree he's blaming everyone else he feels he's owed something
@@Cleo256he thinks and speak like an entitled child. When they did not contribute much in our struggle.
@@luzukombuqu4976 absolutely
Summing up what Rutendo is saying Zimbos are never going to fight their leaders they came to repay themselves for helping SA indefinitely🤔 interesting.
They never really helped 😅. Mugabe refused to helped SA many times they say. This guy is not entirely telling the truth. He's taking glory in what other African countries did. Open your eyes please SA. You owe nothing to these people.
Please dont judge Zimbabweans based on this guys views, he represents The Zimbabweans government, not the the ordinary Zimbabweans in South Africa, we are grateful that you allowed us to stay, and we dont feel entitled at all ,we are at the mercy of your generosity, Thank you South Africa
From my conversation with immigrants working in SA, they say that they want EFF to win so that the borders can be open. So I would think that, that is what they are waiting for.
Penuel, there are better people than Benson that you can have as a guest who talks about such issues, someone who was there, not a reader telling the story. There are many Zimbabweans who were there to tell the story, not him. Penuel, find genuine people to interview, not a zanu chancer. There are people who were Zapu cadres that can tell you the real story. Benson tells the story as if he was there. There are people who were that can tell the story from experience, not a storyteller who was once anti zanu and flipped because he is trying to get into that corrupt elite.
A comprehensive history lesson of southern African countries.👏👏👏
In a very basic sense it would be impossible for me to adopt children into my family when I am struggling to provide for my own children.
Absolutely! That's pretty much what it is in a nutshell and that's what SAns are saying over and over but they continue to be invalidated and called names.
Exactly my sentiment
Finish and Klaar
This is only true when you expect your government to provide everything for you. South Africans really are children of the failing ANC.
Look at all the biggest empires of the world; You cant become one without foreigners.
So comrade, I would adopt anyone as long as they contribute to the empowerment of my family. e.g British Common Wealth, China, UNITED STATES of A and EU.
Simple straight forward
as a foreigner myself, i owe alot to this country
You can pay us back by going back to your country, we are overcrowded we want to breath
Please go home.
BOT
Same as me South africa is the best country in AFRICA
Thank you so much,we appreciate
Put South African first
Rutendo is very smart in terms of information and explaination. He knows how to connect dotes. I love him from Tanzania🇹🇿
Theory vs Practical. Past vs Present. Words vs actions.
Fiction Vs Reality
I hate this guy from Zimbabwe is talking nosess
I've just realized how little to nothing I know about Southern African or African history, thank you Penuel for hosting these great minds
Well done to you for being open minded enough to allow yourself to be taught at your adulthood stage... Check the comments people are more angry and emotional than allowing themselves to learn
When Zimbabwe Mozambique opens its mouth it's all lies to push a narrative. Everything coming out of Zimbabwe is anti white yet tell white South Africa and the world where is white Rhodesia today? Now we must fund these people, keep dreaming. If South Africa doesn't get ab immediate handel on a "never ending liberation struggle" against South Africa it's going to be far worse than apartheid! The international community ALREADY pushing a successful regime change, if the come into our borders where does black South Africa go then?
Let us get facts right. Zimbabwe's intervention in Mozambique had nothing to do with liberation of South Africa. Zimbagwe is a landlocked country. It gets its most of its trading supplies via the Beira corridor in Mozambique. In the 80's Renamo began to disrupt those supplies by meddling with the Beira corridor, which meant that if Zimbagwe stood aside, it was going to be stuffed as a landlocked country. Therefore the motivation to intervene in Mozambique against Renamo had nothing to do with liberating South Africans. It was Zimbagwe defending its interests in the Beira corridor. The South African people do not owe Zimbagwe anything about money that was spent by Zimbagwe there.
Secondly, it is a green lie that the Zimbagwean gvt supported MK. It is Zapu and Zipra that supported MK. The Zimbagwean gvt with its Western allies and apartheid RSA made sure that Matebeleland, that was being made into an MK corridor to move from Zambia to fight Pretoria, was effectively blocked and Zipra and Zapu were effectively destroyed. The whole of Matebeleland was declared a no go area and an ethnic genocide was commenced from 1981 to 1987, just before the collapse of the Soviet Union that was backing both Zipra and MK. The timing of ending that Matebeleland blockade and genocide is very telling just as the Soviet collapsed. MK was fully blocked from using it as a corridor to fight RSA, effectively blocked by Robert Mugabe and his Western handlers until the Soviet was collapsing which meant little military threat for RSA from both MK and Zipra elements who served in MK. Rutendo is talking lies and propaganda. Those with little knowledge can fall for it. We can not be fooled by such propaganda and we are very much aware of who was in cahoots with Apartheid Pretoria gvt at the time!
We need more of such debates. Thank you and team.
I hope that one day we'll mature as a nation to debate our own issue allowing differing viewpoints without making them personal. We need to be reminded of historical facts that bind us together as people and that we are all human beings before we are nationalities.
It is very important that our African brothers and sisters acknowledge that in the African culture you don't go into another person's house or village and disrespect the way they do things (laws, processes, procedures, and customs) because when you do that you lose your status as a visitor or brother and you get treated like a criminal.
It is important to do to others as you would like them to do to you. South Africans can't go to other countries including our neighbors and do as they please. At the end of it law and order of the visited country must be observed.
No foreign national, African or otherwise can have more rights than the citizens regardless of what the constitution might seem to be implying because such a constitution regardless of how beautifully written it might be, it will not stand the test of time.
I agree that there must be repatriation for mega companies that benefited from Apartheid and it seems no South African political party is prepared to go that route. So long as those ills of our past are not addressed we'll continue to have the inequalities that we have and growing. Nationalization is not the answer and repatriation is the only way to go. This makes sense because everything we tried to own and operate as a state failed, for example Postbank, SAA, Transnet, Eskom, etc. We have proven to lack the capacity to do so. So do not believe those who have never managed anything tell you otherwise. It is just wishful thinking and an opportunity for more looting. Leave the South African banks alone and just make them repatriate because it is the right thing to do. Now is the opportune time to begin the repatriation process because if it happened earlier the GUPTAs and State Capture could have taken all that money.
The few who amassed wealth through the ANC sponsored BEE system should invest in industrialization, strategic sectors and employ the majority of the people. These BEE benefactors must then invest in mining and beneficiation plants in South Africa and Zimbabwe to help her economy and create more jobs in Zimbabwe.But Zimbabweans in the diaspora must also help to do the same because they have the capital to do so. If the Zimbabweans in diaspora do not trust their own government how can anyone else trust it? When the majority of Zimbabweans begin to flock home and start industrialization projects, the rest of the world will follow. No foreign investor will take a a risk in a country whose black dollar multimillionares have fled to foreign countries. It really speaks bad about Zimbabwe.
What Zimbabwe should be doing is setting up campaigns to attract their own people in the diaspora to come back home and help build the economy of the country. In doing so they must entice them with incentives.
As for the market (sanctions) for the finished goods, SADC, the African continent, and BRICS+ countries will be waiting to buy. Here I tend to agree with Ike that there seems to be carts placed before the horses in emphasizing problems (sanctions) than seeking solutions as indicated above.
Zimbabweans flocking to South Africa in their numbers increasingly and persistently is bound to cause serious conflicts that no amount of historical and political explanation will avert.
"The Only borders that irritate people seems to be South Africa's borders"... Author Unknown... But without even listening to the conversation, African, Pakistani, Chinese, European Countries, where their so called 'leaders' and making their countries seemingly not a conducive place to stay in or a happy place to be, must start making their countries attractive for their citizens to return... Cause it is not being Xenophobic, but facts are facts, cause we are competing for basic and other economic opportunities, especially in the small business sector. The entire JHB CBD small business sector has been overly flooded by non South Africans - and those small businesses for the most part does not employ any South Africans... And the level of criminal activities conducted by many many many of these folk is insurmountable... Why does everyone not all flock to Zimbabwe for example, or to Botswana, so that South Africa can get a bit of a breather to find its own footing.
The reason why the South African boarder seems to irritate people is tantamount to why the American boarders irritate people...
South Africa is one of the few countries that have resources and the level of education many seek for, also South Africa has adopted western culture, is a well spoken country in English amongst many, provides benefits to foreigners and unlike America (of which I currently reside for the past 4 years) is much more easier to enter more than many African countries!
Our government does not take priority to South African people, but cares more about the housing of people seeking refugee and using them as commodities to suit their own personal agendas.
We cannot deny the fact that there's many illegal foreigners (I'd argue more than documented foreigners) in our country and they benefit alot more than our own people.
This is a fight bigger than us, we need true intervention.
@@TheBoringGuySAthis is really sad for us ordinary citizens of SA. What do u of Gayton Mackenzie who’s vocal about these issues and he put all SAns first?
Problem we have is a 1 way traffic to our strenuous economy also with the crimes these people create and I am 1 of those South Africans who say hell to borderless Africa.
Great point
Ike Khumalo powerfull❤❤❤❤
Thanks for the conversation gentlemen 👑
Super Informative, thanks to the panel. From Moz
Great debate it was🔥🔥 Ike Khumalo for Public Protector...
This Khumalo guy spits Facts
What facts are you talking about?
Thanks to the brother from Zimbabwe for laying it all.I love you brother's from Zimbabwe
Interesting to note that Matinyarare lives in South Africa rather than the country that he relentlessly promotes and attempts to push down our throats....Ike, thank you for bringing perspective.
That surprised me too
Penuel this is a good start. We need part 2 focusing more on solutions.
As Ruthendo speak about unity and history the same Shona must talk about how they are oppressing other blacks. They must talk about tribalism in Zimbabwe. The Shonas are killing other black tribes. All government and private sector are reserved for Shonas. Munangagwa and Mugabe are and were advice by whites to this day. Whites are still in Zimbabwe and advise their government on everything but here is Ruthenso advising us to get rid of the whites. Zimbabweans Shona makes whites filthy rich not their black neighbours. Watch the gold mafia and you will see from gold to cigarette whites are assisting and they take a big chunk of the cake.
Thabk you Ike for being a voice to the voiceless. We are behind you 100%. Drug dealers have killed our boys.
We have been carrying Zimbabweans for 30years now, sacrificing our children future.We get arrogance, infrastructure destruction,betrayal, entertainment..Yet no Zimbabweans are pushing nor fighting their struggle, but happy and wanting our citizenship taking our Governoment to court😢
30 years 😮 cum now
Zanu people will never be thankful for what you did by accommodating us because they are the enemies pf Zimbabwean people
They have no pride shame... they want to be something they are not so badly... they must go home... we are busy dealing with ANC bona they love ANC... they taking us back... go home and vote. Finish n klaar.
Why do you get bothered by other Africans in your country? , there are plenty of South Africans here in Zambia we are not bothered because we do not view it as okay to hate or wish for any fellow African to feel unwelcomed, I feel other countries need to start being hostile towards you south africans in their countries, make sure you do not need any other African countries for anything! Yall should be worried about the whites who have always been in your countries stealing from you since time in memorial yet you are here complaining about other countries working in your countries its disgusting that most of you feel so independent & better than other African countries we should have left yall alone during apartheid. Yall are lazy and ungrateful chasing foreigners whole give all South Africans jobs and degrees its just ridiculous and appalling.
We ? What do you do that’s more than the foreigners who is working ? Mxm go sit in your cold shack alone
Rutendo didn't allow Ike to speak. Next debate Rutendo must just shut up, we tired of a history lesson we didn't ask for.
GREAT DISCUSSION, WELL DONE PENUEL! Ike Khumalo makes a lot of sense. Rutendo distorts history and facts to suit his biased narrative. South Africa has long acknowledged the contribution of other African countries in the fight against Apartheid. South Africa for 30 years and to its detriment, has been way too generous with its support to immigrants.
No country worth its salt, not even Zimbabwe accepts illegal immigration let alone the unregulated influx of foreign nationals. During Apartheid, South Africans went into exile for a particular and CLEAR purpose of mobilising to fight the Apartheid regime and in a majority of African countries South Africans in exile were living in camps.
That history is irrelevant to the topic: South Africans didn't migrate to African countries but it was cadres who were deployed for military training...not mass migration
Not economic participation or ownership of land, but combat training!...thank you!
Thank you
for you to have this half freedom of yours a lot of african countries which you now treat like scum sacrifised themselves for the cause of a free Africa but it seems like that was all in vain as south africans are cowards . you would rather lick the feet of your colonizer rthan help and stand with the guys who helped you when you were oppressed. Nothing lasts forever my man and we as the next generation in zimbabwe wont forget , you seem to forget you are still colonized rock bottom is coming and no one in africa is going to help you , you have shown your true colours
Sample as that...
if south africa was under sanctions you would migrate into other countries....by the way there are MANY south africans living abroad, in canada, amerika, europe, and we have many of YOUR RACIST BOERS, in our countries.....so i dont know what you are talking about...
No matter what rutendo says we know who helped us Zambia Angola and Tanzanian and the footprint are still there.
Yes, yes, yes. Zambia and Tanzania and Angola helped South Africa immensely. And they are not coming back to South Africa demanding to be citizens.
Don't forget Eswatini where Tutus, Mandelas, and Motsepes kids went for education.
ANC headquarters was based in Zambia & our country was independent from 1964 yet Rutendo underplays its role & overestimates Zim' s role that was only independent since 1980. Tanzania & Angola was also a frontline state with Zambia but we dont have this level of entitlement on SA! Let SA live please geez!
@@zakhemabaso6644 eswatini & Lesotho are indirectly province's of S.A. your population works here so if I were you I'll keep quiet cause the spotlight will be on you and you will wish you never say what you said we owe you big( O)
@@bekisiphotshili2566you crazy n have clearly never traveled outside SA coz these countries fear SA
Its everybody's fault but Zimbabwe...well said Ike!
Rutendo listens with his mouth, he listens to argue not to first understand then respond. That is the mark of an effective debater!
Ike was interrupted so much even stopped from talking by Penuel, only to allow Rutendo to continue for a VERY long time.
Wangicika o uPenuel 😂😂😂for years njalo
As Ruthendo speak about unity and history the same Shona must talk about how they are oppressing other blacks. They must talk about tribalism in Zimbabwe. The Shonas are killing other black tribes. All government and private sector are reserved for Shonas. Munangagwa and Mugabe are and were advice by whites to this day. Whites are still in Zimbabwe and advise their government on everything but here is Ruthenso advising us to get rid of the whites. Zimbabweans Shona makes whites filthy rich not their black neighbours. Watch the gold mafia and you will see from gold to cigarette whites are assisting and they take a big chunk of the cake.
Rutendo is a history teacher however he says nothing about current issues. Well done to Ike.
Yazi, he has made me realize that his history lesson is his perspective...😮😢
Isaac he knows very well about the current issues but he chooses to act as though they dont exist because acknowledging the issues honestly and truthfully would be an admission of guilt
YA'LL TRULY DON'T GET IT.
@ MoorenaEl we don’t get what sisi. You must learn few things about the Shonas of Zimbabwe and Ruthendo is one of them. He is talking about history but he won’t tell South Africans about how they killed other black tribes in Zimbabwe. The Shona are tribalist and they are not ashame. As Ruthendo school those who don’t know history he must tell you how Mugabe and Munangagwa use white people service in Zimbabwe. Their presidents are advised by whites, their president smuggle gold and cigarettes using whites they hate so much. You must look for Mugabe video on TH-cam and you will see Mugabe promised to protect all the whites in Zimbabwe but because of the whites arrogance and undermining Mugabe hence they find themselves here today. But the same Mugabe and Munangagwa could not guarantee their black neighbours the same peace and prosperity. In Zimbabwe other tribes are forced to learn in Shona but they won’t do the same to the remaining whites. Zimbabwe still has whites who have influence in government and they are the one saving Zimbabwe not black intellectuals of Zimbabwe. Go online on TH-cam and type tribalism in Zimbabwe you will hear whites speak about advising Munangagwa but here is ruthendo telling us to get rid of whites. Have you wondered why Mugabe was not punished by Europeans or Americans after attacking whites? Not that they are afraid of Mubarak or his regime. The whites are still in control in Zimbabwe otherwise Americans would have removed Mugabe. Whites are not afraid of anyone but they are ready to sacrifice their own for the bigger cause. Whites have plan for Zimbabwe and hence they won’t report tribalism in Zimbabwe in 2024
Im from Lesotho and south Africa my mother was a member of the PAC that ran back to Lesotho and my father stayed in South Africa he used to send PAC members to my mothers house in Lesotho where they would hide even after 1994. They were taken in as brothers not refugees or forced to live under poor conditions. We were living on campus and i saw a lot of prominent south Africans that came for studies in Lesotho because they couldnt study in SA.
Still hamba Khaya.. it's much for SA. We cannot house all countries.our infrastructure is heavily loaded. Taxpayers are suffering
❤@@swellengoosebell1592
The only solution and remedy to this problem of foreigners this is the take responsibility of their own countries regardless of which country they come from
2 people go to exile then 15 million people come to SA🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😅😅😅
Yes and now South Africa belongs to them for the rest of our life's how selfish this foreigners
True
Nah, Rutendo is exaggerating Zim involvement in Our struggle. He is rewriting history this one.
😅 now South Africa is a reason Zimbabwe failed, narcissistic people don't want to take responsibility. 😂. Zimbabwe work on your country
@@viriacssa2003Yeses. He played the victim card so hard. "Everyone is the problem but us."
@@viriacssa2003Yeses. He played the victim card so hard. "Everyone is the problem but us."
Are you another Ike?? I mean come on the guy is terrible at historical knowledge.
It's a shame that you say such a statement, you agree that there was involvement, at the time it was needed and it was given, soo you say thank you.
Eye opening podcast...Big up Pen... No1 fan🙏
I have like you analysing the program
Thank you
Corruption is the Zim worst enemy not Sanctions.
keep lying to yourself....just last year it was on the news that europe extended sanctions on zim....its there google it..
Shoutout........to Ike Khumalo
Mtungwa........ for representing us and our beautiful country🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦❤️, you stood with us Ndoda this guy from Zim is always talking nonsense about our leaders. He needs to go back to Zimbabwe 🇿🇼 and use he's intelligent to fix Zimbabwe. Asibonge 🤝🏿🙌🏿
Ike is shallow, like most black South afrikans
Not once does he blame ZANU PF, which is quite suggestive 😏.
@revolution475 Instead of blaming zanu PF, he will talk nonsense about our leaders, forgetting that we know what they did to Ndebele people.
Less wisdom and arrogant +ignorance +heartless please calculate
@Silas8732 who must calculate chief?
This needs to be a 3 part series
The story of immigration between Zimbabwe and South Africa starts with South Africa in 1818 when Mzilikazi Kamashobana a military leader of King Shaka who decided to break away from Shaka and decided to move to Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) and found a place where they settled and called themselves Ndebeles, today they are about 4.7 million of Ndebeles - direct descendants of the Zulu people
These points being debated are so irrelevant.We dont want a history lesson.We want know why Zimbabweans are in SA in numbers but they are so clever, but cant even change the situation in their country of birth.
Did you listen?
I don't think they listen
It's definitely because of incompetent government in Zim,without no doubt Zimbabweans are more clever than South Africans
Ask that again they are so clever at diagnosing what is going wrong in SA and yet they dont want to build their contries.
Did u even play this vide😂?
There is no justification whatsoever for being in a country illegally.we are suffering as legal citizens and are competing for already scarce resources.we appreciate the history stories but this has gone out of hand.
So true... especially when citizens of that country clearly do not want you.
They must go and fight for their country. No one will save them.
This was a combination of two great minds. Twas very educational and informative too. When are you bringing back these guys to your studio?
This was more of a history masterclass than addressing the elephant in the room: An abnormally large quantities of illegal foreigners. The dialogue lost direction from the endless talking ka Rutendo and Ike fell on the trap.
The result of which is foreigners expressing gratitude for all the "hospitality" they benefitting from our already negative economy.
Fun Fact: The country Lesotho has a population of 2 million. To even say the illegal foreigners TRIPLE that number is a joke.
Bra Ike is a patriot!!
I cry for my country South Africa. Its destroyed 😢
No we will not allow it to be destroyed by foreigners, never!
It breaks my heart wish I could scream kakhulu. Guys what do u think of Gayton Mackenzie Of Patriot Alliance?
It will be fixed don’t worry. We will fix it
@@glomab2758it was already destroyed be4 foreigners move
@@thembi9645both of those parties are our last hope
It’s great to have these dialogues, to work through perspectives and grievances , it’s the only way to truly unite… however corruption on all sides must be eradicated, otherwise it can never work.