You dont have to grind out the top to get more camber!!! Two of the bolts on the top mount can be relocated closer to the other two bolts, then the whole strut can be shifted.
In regards to the suspension .. I've always been in the mindset of "What you are going to use this for that is the most important" E.g. 1. Are you going to use it for drag racing 2. Are you going to use this for Roll racing 3. Are you going to be racing on a track and is there lots of tight corners etc. 4. Is this just for day to day driving. 5. Are you using this for 4 x 4 6. Are you going for a certain look. So once you work out what is your main use is then you've worked out what you should aim for. You would agree some people buy the wrong suspension and end up with something that is either too soft or too hard for their needs. To this, I would add that people buy the right suspension for their needs but are unhappy with the results due to their belief of how it should feel. Look if it's going to be a daily driver you'd want comfort over stiffness and when you are wanting your beast to dig into that corner of every part of the track and not let the G-forces send you sideways then it's strength of suspension and tyre that control that .. but prepare yourself for every bump in the road.. And if you want to driver over rocks as big as a Rottweiler or jump over sand dunes and not smash your underside and frame of your vehicle then stiff & lowered suspension is not the way to go, specially with the amount of body roll that comes with lifted suspension. Public roads are not speed ways, drag tracks, 4 x 4 tracks due to the the lack of grip in the materials used in the roads, the age, the wear, the amount of pot holes, debris and many other factors and I think it's important to be accepting of what you want from your vehicle when it comes to suspension and how you are going to drive that car around. They all have their + or -'s. But in most cases if you talk with a professional suspension specialist they can suggest a happy medium right through to exactly what you are after for the price range that you are willing to spend on your vehicle. Please drive to your ability as many people are killed due to driving like they are on a race track.. I love a good burnout and a bit of sideways action.. But not at the expense of someone's loved ones life. Be safe and enjoy your ride.
Steering feel is 100% control arms. Stiffer bushing in the arms themselves + extra -ve camber makes a massive difference. On my 140 it went from basically -0.5 camber to -2 degrees (fixed) and was a huuuuuuuuuge steering improvement. The Coilovers help ride quality/control and a little bit of body roll.
I have bc coilovers on my e39. I like them, quiet and solid. They seem to hold up too. The bcs on my car are 5 years old and still ride great. Not sure of the miles but I'm guessing 40k.
My personal opinion is the additional feedback and positive front end you notice more on the spirited driving than cruising is the wheel alignment. That might be because you can achieve that geometry as a result of the new components but I tend to lean the way of the alignment being the reason.
FYI 20 clicks to full soft isn't as soft as you would think on these dampers, do a few more clicks towards soft and I think you'll easily get to the same comfort level as the "Geckos", whatever the f those are haha. The dampers are digressive (I think that's it), so it takes a lot of clicks (20+) to get to the truly "soft" settings. I'm ~6 clicks from full soft on my BC's on my daily 3 series. 15 clicks was way too jarring on our shit roads.
Glad you're pleased with them, didn't realise you have previously planned to do any track racing of racing that isn't drag / rolls. That'd be interesting to see on the channel if you ever get round to it in future
the M3 arms will sharpen the steering feel from the increased camber AND the stiffer bushes. the reduced understeer is also from the increased front camber. the m3 arms alone will only give upto -0.8 deg. so -1.8 with the top hats is plenty for handling without wrecking the inner edges of the tyres (tbh i would try more like -1.5) The shocks will reduce the body roll and the degressive tune makes them get softer over bigger hits. Just keep an eye on the inner tread wear front and rear. Also did you know what the camber was before?..
The rear was about the same 1.8 one side and 1.7 the other. Front I never checked. But I did have the factory mounts opened up so so probably around 1 deg in the front too.
The DS give the best of both worlds, they give a soft cushion over bumps and are stiff with driver inputs, I think the extra stiffness you are getting might be a stiffer spring rate and the addition of the m arms that don’t have a soft rubber bushing but are spherical joints, all the same great information and video... can’t wait to get mine, I have everything you have minus brakes and I am also single turbo from speedtech!
@@ZeroTo60Tube other that spool time there is no other downside as I have a big Borgwarner s366sxe, way better flow and the car actually sounds a lot better at idle and while accelerating, I have not cheaped out with parts on my build, everything is integrated perfectly with the factory DME, I absolutely love it... can’t wait to see you go single and experience it for yourself
Hey hey we just did coil overs this weekend on our E90. ECS tuning brand but same camber plates as the BC. We used the 1/4” spacers on the TOP of the strut and it gives us room for full camber adjustment! Just need to drop the ride height by the equivalent amount problem solved!!!
Ahhhh interesting. I havent had a chance to check yet, but apparantly there are different holes for the grub screws in the strut tops anyway :| I had no idea. TBH im gonna leave it where it for now now anyway. Doesn't need to be too race car this one.
@@ZeroTo60Tube I hear ya! My son is driving the car daily and we need to find an alignment shop ASAP! Checking a place 2 towns over that had never heard of before. Although we don’t see any tire wear the car is covered with tire dust after a couple days of driving LOL! Rides really nice and doesn’t look like a 4x4 anymore! xDrive cars are really high on stock suspension. photos.app.goo.gl/2XS2RVEYip3NFyTz7
I replaced my suspension and put in the control arms at the same time like you did (Bilstein B12 kit+M3 Control Arms), and I think the improved ability for oversteer is really down to the M3 control arms. It would be nice to know more about your alignment specs if you are able to publish them as it would be cool to have a baseline with specs that work well. After driving through a northern Canadian winter I will likely get another alignment (roads are doodoo with megapotholes as the snow melts away) before going nuts in the summer again.
I love the plan for this car. I would have already bought a single turbo kit if it was available for a 535 but there is a ton extra i have to do before i get to that level which includes relocation of the ac line, abs unit and coolant expansion tank. Even if it doesnt spool up as quick as those twins the noises and extra top end power more than make up for it.
Heaps to do yes, but get some sleep! Whole video poor man hallucinating birds on the road. -- M3 arms made a huge difference on mine, as did pressing in the M3 rear-subframe bushings. The e92 (needs a name... they all do now) looks good! Love seeing content on it.
Control arms make the car drive better with directional changes but the body roll will be the coil overs. I did the control arms first and then did the coil over but went with ST XTA.
@@anthonye3680 they are actually really good. KW design them and have a very similar deal they just don’t have the kw stainless steel body to the shocks.
@@heathbailey4149 where you live are there bad roads like NY /NJ full or cracks and potholes? I got a E90 and would like better handling but still good on ruff roads..
@@heathbailey4149 did you use the top hats at all to add camber? I know me control arms already add camber but I'll be using the top hats to get about -1.7 up front for better turn in and front grip.
@@anthonye3680 the roads I’m on are crap also and they seem to be very comfortable you can adjust dampening to your liking and camber the one bonus us the adjustment on the camber is better as it doesn’t conflict with the top of the strut towers
Correct me if I’m wrong but I went back to the previous video and there appears to be 3 threaded holes in the camber plates with only two cap head screws? If that’s the case, you can move the inner cap head screw in to the center hole, which should then provide more useable range for camber in the front without cutting.
hey any update in regards to these coilovers and a final verdict with comfort? what was the spring rates would you happen to know? especially now after having more kilometres on them. Also any issues since this video?
It's the control arms giving you more road sensitivity up front.... trust. I put some M3 arms on the front of my e90 335i recently and it made a huge difference.
totally agree. the m3 arms use stiffer bushings/bearings. So you will notice more road imperfections for the control trade off. Also allow time for the new shocks/struts to break in. Makes a difference.
Great video, and we'll reviewed! It's nice to hear a subjective and intelligent review. We're looking at Gecko coilovers for our Hyundai EV, in hopes of Improving range. It sounds like the geckos are more comfortable. How would you compare them to the stock suspension?
Gecko are definitely stiffer than stock bmw suspension. Best thing I can recommend is to compare springs rates on the different brands you are looking at. It probably the the thing you will feel the most on the street
Growing up it was always eibach springs, strut tower bars, sway bars and good tires. Now as an adult I was considering buying the DS series coilovers. It’s a daily driver but I do plan on some track days and a lot of spirited twisty runs. You think it’s worth the step up in my situation?
Pouring rain for days... "Why are there so many birds on the road?" Uhm maybe Australia is different than Canada but around here, after a heavy rain there's plenty of worms on the sidewalks and roads... Free and easy bait if you wanna' go fishing. 🎣
Jo, Alex from germany...✌ Love ur content and stuff, pretty good! Have u guys an e90 335xi on schedule? Would like to see the 17T perform on AWD plus what is the xdrive capable to with around 500 hp Keep up the great content 🤜🤛
Thanks for another great video, car is looking slick, i have stock m sport suspension on my E91 but want to get the M3 control arms. All i will need to do is a alignment afterwards ? PS: good to see some blue sky finally up there :)
Have you thought of using a fixed camber plate say like Turner from ECS? how much negative camber did the M3 control arms give you? I hear around -0.75*. Lastly i have heard that the m3 control arms will change ur caster...moving the front tire forward. did u experience this?
@@ZeroTo60Tube Ok. I wonder if that can be taken care of in alignment or if adjustable arms need to added to offset the additional caster from the M3 arms?
What single turbo is kit is zero to 60’s favorite? I’ve been looking into the new bottom mount doc racing because the price but the twin scroll manifold on the ces kit seems like it’s a better performer
We are very limited for choice being right hand drive. Been looking at the N54developments kit mainly. Should be a good cheaper option. The simply tuning kit on ohhrly will probably make more power, but the simply kits are big money. But you get what you pay for.
Yea that’s what I was thinking about the doc racing, it’s so new and so much cheaper than the others. But I’ve heard good things about their top mount kit that has been out for longer. The right hand drive probably makes a bottom mount kit almost impossible.
Don’t them bc coil overs have another set of holes where u put them Allen bolts on so you can give it more camber? My Impreza had another set of holes on the top plate n u could give it loads of camber!
Geckos were $500 cheaper. I think for a street car that you daily, they are probably better value, on the flip side, i dont think the gecko will last as long.
@@ZeroTo60Tube cool cool, I'm trying to decide which to go with. Different vehicle but I'm low to the point zero tyre gap and rears tuck. It's a daily the front mca spring rates are pretty up there and scares me a little. 20kg front compared to 10kg on the bc ds.
Oh the worst part of making multiple changes at once😂😂😂😂 too many variables means too many options. All that matters is if it is better or worse. It seems you are happy.
So far yes, I really didn’t want to loose the comfort I had, this is slightly stiffer the feel is well worth the trade off. That said I can go softer on the clickers yet.
You dont have to grind out the top to get more camber!!! Two of the bolts on the top mount can be relocated closer to the other two bolts, then the whole strut can be shifted.
Yeah this guy has no idea what he's talking about lol. I was going to watch this review but not even worth it after I saw him say that.
In regards to the suspension .. I've always been in the mindset of "What you are going to use this for that is the most important" E.g.
1. Are you going to use it for drag racing
2. Are you going to use this for Roll racing
3. Are you going to be racing on a track and is there lots of tight corners etc.
4. Is this just for day to day driving.
5. Are you using this for 4 x 4
6. Are you going for a certain look.
So once you work out what is your main use is then you've worked out what you should aim for. You would agree some people buy the wrong suspension and end up with something that is either too soft or too hard for their needs. To this, I would add that people buy the right suspension for their needs but are unhappy with the results due to their belief of how it should feel.
Look if it's going to be a daily driver you'd want comfort over stiffness and when you are wanting your beast to dig into that corner of every part of the track and not let the G-forces send you sideways then it's strength of suspension and tyre that control that .. but prepare yourself for every bump in the road.. And if you want to driver over rocks as big as a Rottweiler or jump over sand dunes and not smash your underside and frame of your vehicle then stiff & lowered suspension is not the way to go, specially with the amount of body roll that comes with lifted suspension.
Public roads are not speed ways, drag tracks, 4 x 4 tracks due to the the lack of grip in the materials used in the roads, the age, the wear, the amount of pot holes, debris and many other factors and I think it's important to be accepting of what you want from your vehicle when it comes to suspension and how you are going to drive that car around. They all have their + or -'s.
But in most cases if you talk with a professional suspension specialist they can suggest a happy medium right through to exactly what you are after for the price range that you are willing to spend on your vehicle.
Please drive to your ability as many people are killed due to driving like they are on a race track.. I love a good burnout and a bit of sideways action.. But not at the expense of someone's loved ones life. Be safe and enjoy your ride.
Steering feel is 100% control arms. Stiffer bushing in the arms themselves + extra -ve camber makes a massive difference. On my 140 it went from basically -0.5 camber to -2 degrees (fixed) and was a huuuuuuuuuge steering improvement. The Coilovers help ride quality/control and a little bit of body roll.
I have bc coilovers on my e39. I like them, quiet and solid. They seem to hold up too. The bcs on my car are 5 years old and still ride great. Not sure of the miles but I'm guessing 40k.
My personal opinion is the additional feedback and positive front end you notice more on the spirited driving than cruising is the wheel alignment. That might be because you can achieve that geometry as a result of the new components but I tend to lean the way of the alignment being the reason.
FYI 20 clicks to full soft isn't as soft as you would think on these dampers, do a few more clicks towards soft and I think you'll easily get to the same comfort level as the "Geckos", whatever the f those are haha. The dampers are digressive (I think that's it), so it takes a lot of clicks (20+) to get to the truly "soft" settings. I'm ~6 clicks from full soft on my BC's on my daily 3 series. 15 clicks was way too jarring on our shit roads.
Glad you're pleased with them, didn't realise you have previously planned to do any track racing of racing that isn't drag / rolls. That'd be interesting to see on the channel if you ever get round to it in future
It crossed my mind when i went with Declan in his M2 to a more normal sort of track day.
the M3 arms will sharpen the steering feel from the increased camber AND the stiffer bushes. the reduced understeer is also from the increased front camber. the m3 arms alone will only give upto -0.8 deg. so -1.8 with the top hats is plenty for handling without wrecking the inner edges of the tyres (tbh i would try more like -1.5)
The shocks will reduce the body roll and the degressive tune makes them get softer over bigger hits.
Just keep an eye on the inner tread wear front and rear.
Also did you know what the camber was before?..
The rear was about the same 1.8 one side and 1.7 the other. Front I never checked. But I did have the factory mounts opened up so so probably around 1 deg in the front too.
11:45 dunno but think the steering feel is because of the M3 FCAB. It’s direct feel of the road. The stock hydraulic bushings hide a lot.
The DS give the best of both worlds, they give a soft cushion over bumps and are stiff with driver inputs, I think the extra stiffness you are getting might be a stiffer spring rate and the addition of the m arms that don’t have a soft rubber bushing but are spherical joints, all the same great information and video... can’t wait to get mine, I have everything you have minus brakes and I am also single turbo from speedtech!
Damn son! Beat me to the single setup. How are you finding the single? Any issues or downsides?
@@ZeroTo60Tube other that spool time there is no other downside as I have a big Borgwarner s366sxe, way better flow and the car actually sounds a lot better at idle and while accelerating, I have not cheaped out with parts on my build, everything is integrated perfectly with the factory DME, I absolutely love it... can’t wait to see you go single and experience it for yourself
Hey hey we just did coil overs this weekend on our E90. ECS tuning brand but same camber plates as the BC. We used the 1/4” spacers on the TOP of the strut and it gives us room for full camber adjustment! Just need to drop the ride height by the equivalent amount problem solved!!!
Ahhhh interesting. I havent had a chance to check yet, but apparantly there are different holes for the grub screws in the strut tops anyway :| I had no idea. TBH im gonna leave it where it for now now anyway. Doesn't need to be too race car this one.
@@ZeroTo60Tube I hear ya! My son is driving the car daily and we need to find an alignment shop ASAP! Checking a place 2 towns over that had never heard of before. Although we don’t see any tire wear the car is covered with tire dust after a couple days of driving LOL! Rides really nice and doesn’t look like a 4x4 anymore! xDrive cars are really high on stock suspension. photos.app.goo.gl/2XS2RVEYip3NFyTz7
I replaced my suspension and put in the control arms at the same time like you did (Bilstein B12 kit+M3 Control Arms), and I think the improved ability for oversteer is really down to the M3 control arms. It would be nice to know more about your alignment specs if you are able to publish them as it would be cool to have a baseline with specs that work well. After driving through a northern Canadian winter I will likely get another alignment (roads are doodoo with megapotholes as the snow melts away) before going nuts in the summer again.
I love the plan for this car. I would have already bought a single turbo kit if it was available for a 535 but there is a ton extra i have to do before i get to that level which includes relocation of the ac line, abs unit and coolant expansion tank. Even if it doesnt spool up as quick as those twins the noises and extra top end power more than make up for it.
Heaps to do yes, but get some sleep! Whole video poor man hallucinating birds on the road. -- M3 arms made a huge difference on mine, as did pressing in the M3 rear-subframe bushings. The e92 (needs a name... they all do now) looks good! Love seeing content on it.
without race tires you don´t need more than 2 degrees neg. camber on the front. Go for KW V3.
Control arms make the car drive better with directional changes but the body roll will be the coil overs. I did the control arms first and then did the coil over but went with ST XTA.
How do you like xta?? How are they on bad roads??
@@anthonye3680 they are actually really good. KW design them and have a very similar deal they just don’t have the kw stainless steel body to the shocks.
@@heathbailey4149 where you live are there bad roads like NY /NJ full or cracks and potholes? I got a E90 and would like better handling but still good on ruff roads..
@@heathbailey4149 did you use the top hats at all to add camber? I know me control arms already add camber but I'll be using the top hats to get about -1.7 up front for better turn in and front grip.
@@anthonye3680 the roads I’m on are crap also and they seem to be very comfortable you can adjust dampening to your liking and camber the one bonus us the adjustment on the camber is better as it doesn’t conflict with the top of the strut towers
Correct me if I’m wrong but I went back to the previous video and there appears to be 3 threaded holes in the camber plates with only two cap head screws? If that’s the case, you can move the inner cap head screw in to the center hole, which should then provide more useable range for camber in the front without cutting.
I was just about to comment the same thing, my hsd have a few holes so you can move the bolts around so they dont hit the strut top
Ok I have clearly missed something..... haha thanks for pointing it out, can I blame old age yet?
@@ZeroTo60Tube only if you’re older than me! 😂
hey any update in regards to these coilovers and a final verdict with comfort? what was the spring rates would you happen to know? especially now after having more kilometres on them. Also any issues since this video?
Not comfy. Haha. These are very performance orientated. Not great on the street.
It's the control arms giving you more road sensitivity up front.... trust. I put some M3 arms on the front of my e90 335i recently and it made a huge difference.
totally agree. the m3 arms use stiffer bushings/bearings. So you will notice more road imperfections for the control trade off. Also allow time for the new shocks/struts to break in. Makes a difference.
Can i put the M's in my xdrive? Or at least the bushings?
@@alexanderst9141 dont believe so. Turner Motorsports makes bushings that you can install in the X arms though.
Car looks great!!, what’s happening with the M5 ?
Not a lot, e60 is waiting for some love in the form of acl rod bearings. The e39 is waiting to find someone to finish the paintwork.
you think theres a noticable difference between the br vs ds coilovers? is it really worth the extra $200 for the ds?
Great video, and we'll reviewed!
It's nice to hear a subjective and intelligent review.
We're looking at Gecko coilovers for our Hyundai EV, in hopes of Improving range.
It sounds like the geckos are more comfortable. How would you compare them to the stock suspension?
Gecko are definitely stiffer than stock bmw suspension. Best thing I can recommend is to compare springs rates on the different brands you are looking at. It probably the the thing you will feel the most on the street
Thanks! The nice thing is the springs are a standard size. Eibach ground control springs should slide in, with custom rates
Growing up it was always eibach springs, strut tower bars, sway bars and good tires. Now as an adult I was considering buying the DS series coilovers. It’s a daily driver but I do plan on some track days and a lot of spirited twisty runs. You think it’s worth the step up in my situation?
Yes, but Id prob get in touch with BC Racing.... they can do a custom setup for your needs, I'm thinking to put a similar order in this month
Dam those brakes look amazing with the new wheels 🤤
Please run the CES Motorsport kit haha that’s the one I’m looking because it spoils quicker
Pouring rain for days... "Why are there so many birds on the road?"
Uhm maybe Australia is different than Canada but around here, after a heavy rain there's plenty of worms on the sidewalks and roads... Free and easy bait if you wanna' go fishing. 🎣
You are probably right, we don’t get that much rain normally so it was a rare thing to see tbh.
Love your vids man
Thanks man!
Have you already done the braking test on the brakes yet?
Jo, Alex from germany...✌
Love ur content and stuff, pretty good!
Have u guys an e90 335xi on schedule?
Would like to see the 17T perform on AWD plus what is the xdrive capable to with around 500 hp
Keep up the great content 🤜🤛
Unfortunately no xi models in Australia. We only got rear wheel drive.
@@ZeroTo60Tube WHAAAAT 🤯 You definitely miss smth 😋
Off topic. Beard looking good.
You should definately bring it to the track. Are you near Lakeside
Yeah about 40mins away. Will have this at euro day, but that’s not really a great day for going quick around corners.
Can't wait for mine!
Thanks for another great video, car is looking slick, i have stock m sport suspension on my E91 but want to get the M3 control arms. All i will need to do is a alignment afterwards ? PS: good to see some blue sky finally up there :)
Just alignment mate! The arms are a good mod, turn in feels more positive !
Spot on gentleman.
@@ZeroTo60Tube thanks guys yeah i heard that the M3 control arms will make a huge difference, looking fwd to getting the mod :)
Have you thought of using a fixed camber plate say like Turner from ECS?
how much negative camber did the M3 control arms give you? I hear around -0.75*.
Lastly i have heard that the m3 control arms will change ur caster...moving the front tire forward. did u experience this?
I didn’t have caster measurements from before, but the wheel does rub more on the guard liner now.
@@ZeroTo60Tube Ok. I wonder if that can be taken care of in alignment or if adjustable arms need to added to offset the additional caster from the M3 arms?
That M4 style wheels looks good on an E9x......ok i'll get a set :P
BTW, what are the sizes on the wheels? 8.5F/9.5R 18"?
These are 9” front and 10” rear 19s.
What single turbo is kit is zero to 60’s favorite? I’ve been looking into the new bottom mount doc racing because the price but the twin scroll manifold on the ces kit seems like it’s a better performer
We are very limited for choice being right hand drive. Been looking at the N54developments kit mainly. Should be a good cheaper option. The simply tuning kit on ohhrly will probably make more power, but the simply kits are big money. But you get what you pay for.
Yea that’s what I was thinking about the doc racing, it’s so new and so much cheaper than the others. But I’ve heard good things about their top mount kit that has been out for longer. The right hand drive probably makes a bottom mount kit almost impossible.
Don’t them bc coil overs have another set of holes where u put them Allen bolts on so you can give it more camber? My Impreza had another set of holes on the top plate n u could give it loads of camber!
Apparently..... I clearly didn’t notice. Thank god for comments section.
How much did you pay for each of them? Which is more value for money?
Geckos were $500 cheaper. I think for a street car that you daily, they are probably better value, on the flip side, i dont think the gecko will last as long.
Surprised you didn't go for ST coilovers
no camber adjustment, or dampening control
I have them. Softer then stock. Wasted my money. Ordering these
Great job!! definitely does look more predictable than mine!
Good job
Hey mate, any reason you didn't look at mca?
At the time they didn’t do any for an e9x
@@ZeroTo60Tube cool cool, I'm trying to decide which to go with. Different vehicle but I'm low to the point zero tyre gap and rears tuck. It's a daily the front mca spring rates are pretty up there and scares me a little. 20kg front compared to 10kg on the bc ds.
@@ERA71K It is a tough one. These handle really well, however i think they are little too stiff for a street car. Im old tho...
@@ZeroTo60Tube trying to consider my kids too 😆
Don't single turbo audience likes the car for this reason that your on an option which we can afford.
Fair enough. But I shall to what I wants to do 😝
@@ZeroTo60Tube Budget single turbo build?
Oh the worst part of making multiple changes at once😂😂😂😂 too many variables means too many options. All that matters is if it is better or worse. It seems you are happy.
So far yes, I really didn’t want to loose the comfort I had, this is slightly stiffer the feel is well worth the trade off. That said I can go softer on the clickers yet.
If you are not a die hard BMW purist, I don't know who would be! 😂
I dunno dude, some of the accountants on the forums act one hell of a lot more pure than I am haha.
haha yeah he's definitely not a purist, which is why we love him :-) Purists would never use chinese turbos, BC's, etc.