Thanks for the shout out, brotha! I'm digging the look and still look forward to seeing the performance cruiser option that people start throwing out there. Overall great vid!
Thanks Jon!! Appreciate you opening my eyes to view this more broadly than a Challenger vs Road Glide play. Really made me realize this was a very calculated design by Indian to basically target the broader bagger market. I even viewed the Challenger name as a shot at Harley but I now view it as a bold shot at the entire industry. I think this power plant will absolutely be able to handle some sick power in the after market. How many guys who felt defeated trading their Road Glide for all of the bells and whistles of a Gold Wing get sweet talked by Indian back into the American V-Twin liquid cooled bike with similar options?
@@GearsGadgets Heck yeah! As you and many have pointed out, competition in the industry helps speed up innovation. And as consumers, it's nice to have all the different options.
Thanks Peanut. I think Indian had a lot of people peeking in windows with the Chieftain, I think this Challenger will get them in the door at a rapid pace.
I have heard that from a lot of guys. I chalk that up to their fear of the core demographic. The same core demographic that isn't trading in their older bikes for newer bikes lol.
That does sound great! Maybe make a few models from each division available with the Porsche motor. Such as the Street Glide and Road Glide from touring. Then several Dyna models, and several soft tail models. I would think there would be some interest in the idea because several guys I knew had the V rods but wish the have more choices.
Agreed, it might have swayed even more riders to harley.Myself k1600b and scout bobber. I expect more performance for the money and that vrod engine in a touring bike would have been interesting
I was part of the design focus group on this bike two years ago. It's a direct swipe at HD but as you said its sooo much more. It should have a ton of bells, whistles, and doo dads that'll knock your socks off. Looking forward to 10/29.
Indian needed a bike with a frame mounted fairing (to compete & to corner harder). Frame mounted bikes corner harder a lot easier. My Vision would out corner a CC. My Roadmaster does not corner near my Vision's capabilities. Plus Indian's heat on riders issue. Bad idea to put a cat under the rider instead of in the mufflers.
@@GearsGadgets I was in a group for the Vic Magnum. We were asked a lot of questions about our preferences via email. Did not know the details of the Magnum until it was released. Questions we were asked then were obvious. They asked me by email if I would participate.
Having owned nothing but harleys my whole motorcycling life (5) this is a breath of fresh air. The fact that so many Harley nut huggers are on here bashing this bike or the brand is ridiculous. Dealer network? I’m sure it will expand over time it hasn’t been ten years for this brand. Why everyone so worried about breaking down?😂 get a damn manual and find out the shortcomings of certain models before you buy so you can know what to look for before a trip/ regular maintenance. I like Harley’s because they’re big dumb tractors that although underpowered are easy to work on. Yes you can make em fast but you gotta spend a lot to do that. The fact that Indian is coming out with this shows they are looking into what the current American cruiser market is looking for (more power, inverted front ends, decent brakes) out the door. Harley will have to become fully water cooled within 10 years if they are to adapt to the times/epa regulations. You can only make an air cooled motor so big/ dependable. Also, Their main source of income (baby boomers) is dwindling so they’re in a identity crisis on what they should do. These new m8 engines don’t even feel like nor sound like harleys btw. Excited to see how Harley responds
Double Huh yea well times are changing, people want stuff like this now. Those same people who complained about the vrod are possibly not even riding or phasing it out of their life due to age.
@@Sig721Tau It was an exciting collaboration IMHO. If they offered that engine as an option I'd be riding it. Instead the moco kept the single pin crank and pushrods with newer colors.
I'm an old guy riding for 50+ years. Currently Indian Springfield. You do great work. Better than the rest. Facts only. Excellent. The Intern series is great. Good luck ride safe.
H-D already tried this motor technology with the V--Rod engine and it didn't sell. What Harley didn't do was make a V-Rod bagger as some of us strongly suggested
@@herbwag6456 In my humble opinion, I feel that the V-Rod power plant (engine) would be an excellent choice for a sport-touring bike (on a par with BMW's 1200-1300cc series motorcycles). However, just as the V-Rod cruiser configuration (frame) was "built around the engine," the sport-touring version would have to be as well. For example: the 'velocity stacks' of the air intake (where the gas tank of other bikes are located) would have to be moved 'further forward' and placed side by side. This would leave the remaining room for a gas tank that would begin from 'behind the stacks,' and then extend over the heads of the motor, then down under the seat (where V-Rod cruiser gas tanks are located). This would increase the fuel capacity of the gas tank and hence the traveling distance of the bike. Or another idea could be to simply make the rider's seat "an integral part of the frame itself." The inside (core) of the seat would be the gas tank extending down to where V-Rod tanks are now. The outer part would be where the padding is and the rider sits upon. Keep in mind that I'm just a layman here "throwing up some wild ideas."
I just purchased a 2020 Roadglide Special and I must say I'm impressed the HP is there, liquid cool engine and LEDs running lights all around. I can't even hate!
The Road Glide Special does not come with LED running lights all around. It is also not liquid cooled, it is oil cooled which is not the same or as good. It is the same setup in my 2018 Heritage 114. If you have LED's all around it is likely that the dealer installed them and you paid for it but don't realize it.
@@GearsGadgets that engine was designed for the next Victory till they shut um down....and look the the shape...thats a Cross Country all the way, handlebars to the gas tank
I disagree. Victory never did all that well in the market. Are they great machines? You bet. However, these new bike are INDIAN. Indian is growing stronger. It is my hope that they are here to stay. There is something about HD and Indian fighting it out to prove who is #1. Brings back a touch of nostalgia. I'm diggin' it. Take care.
@@bcbsilverhawk8426 I knew about this engine years ago from a Victory engineer it was designed to go in the next Cross Country before it was shut down and they just shifted it to this Indian.....those lines are purely Cross Country with just a little Indian flare
@@hiposho68 No disagreement here. Just saying its all Indian now. Victory is no more. Indian and Harley going toe to toe. Will be fun to watch. I love the competition. Take care.
@@GearsGadgets I've been looking to go the opposite direction. The plastics on my old GL1500 are starting to get brittle, and I still think they have more years in them than the plastics on a brand new GL1800. If you're considering one, give a serious look at a lightly used '17 instead of buying new. You'll see that the compartments in the fairing and the gas door are more solid on the '17 than the newer ones. It feels like Honda downgraded. Sitting on an 2018+ Street Glide and Goldwing, I'd say that the Goldwing is probably easier to handle in a traffic jam, mainly due to a lighter clutch. However, the flimsy plastics of the new wing vs the Harley would make me choose the HD. 2017 and earlier.... well the Honda would win.
I have test ridden a few Indians recently and I would strongly suggest you do the same before you buy a Gold Wing. An Indian will give you all of the history, street cred and American styling of a Harley but in a much better motorcycle with a better, smoother, more powerful engine and better feature implementation. Not quite the "2-wheeled car" that is the GW but thats a good thing in my book.
@@5FWS5 to be honest, I get a very strong 2 wheeled car vibe in Indian showrooms. I think it's because they're designed to highlight their infotainment systems. I didn't have that feeling a couple years ago.
Yo awesome vid and sick Kriver shoutout in the pic, I'm hoping to go there sometime next year if possible. Props to you for reaching out to the dude and getting hi rez pics and videos.
As a previous Harley owner once said.. "ive never used a trailer so much in my life" always broken. Well done Frasiers of Dianella western australia. Dont deal with these guys.
@@Xboxliveyomomma127 cool dude.. i would like to buy a Harley but ive seen so many broken ones that it put me off.. they're not cheap. Its a serious purchase.
Polaris Killed Victory in 2017 to put all their efforts into Indian. I'm pretty sure they didn't roll out any new 2017 Bikes so the last new Victory's you could buy were 2016. I bought a 2012 Victory Cross Country Tour with 27K on It in March of 18 cause it was my dream bike and I got a really good deal on it.
Thanks for no commercials. I've unsubbed from several content creators that now include commercials. Good job. Harley needs to step it up. The Indian 108 vs the 114 from Harley absolutely kills it.
Oh I run commercials too. Most people aren’t into spending thousands of dollars on equipment and 20-30 hours a week for 3-4 years producing content for $0 payback. Commercials in exchange for free content is a pretty good deal when compared to cable that charges you $80 a month AND runs commercials.
I pay youtube for no commercials (dont remember what they call it). If you watch a fair amount of videos I think it's worth it. First 2 months were free.
Great to see Indian incorporate features from other brands. More choice for more riders. As you so truthfully stated, riders will decide with their wallets and brains as to which is the bike for them. Thanks for the heads up on the Challenger brother, appreciate it. Greetings from the land of Oz.
Thanks for sharing. Im a lot more into it now that I get to see higher def content. For people who are more into the ride than pride this will score big.
I am impressed by the positive response by the Harley riders on this site towards the new Challenger. I sure hope once it is released and real testing begins, that it is warranted. I think it will be. I myself have a 14 Victory Cross Country that I love, but in a year or two would like to move on to something newer and the Indians are currently at the top of my list. If this new engine is what I think it is, it will definitely be an Indian. I remember back shortly after the rug was pulled on Victory, some executive at Polaris said if you are a fan of the Cross Bikes Indian will make you happy in the near future. I took this with a grain of salt, but it sure seem this is what they had in mind. And surely they have plans to put this motor on other platforms. I prefer the looks of batwing bike and would imagine a Chieftain option of sorts and others will also carry this engine. This past winter I took my Cross Country to a renowned Victory tuner in North Florida. For a little over 1500 dollars he got me a little over 30 more hp and more torque. I suspect Lloyd's in Charlotte, NC has already been working on new cams for the Power Plus, or shortly will be, and if the same ratio of hp can be achieved, we may be looking at 145+ crank hp for not a lot of money. Well one can hope. Also the water cooling should help with rear cylinder heat. I love the competition between Harley and Indian. It should make both brands better for the future.
I am shocked as well. I was expecting to get CRUSHED for wearing a Harley hat and Indian shirt at the same time. Seems people are more open minded to this than I anticipated.
I do like that Indian is challenging HD and other brands with all the new features. Indian with this new motor is going to take baggers to the next level.
This is going to push the MoCo, and I'm glad to see it. H-D has several new motors in the works, but they need to go into production on them. The Indian motor seems to be a larger version of the new H-D 1250, although the Indian version is single overhead cam and the H-D motor is DOHC. H-D also has a new 975 that they'll be putting in a frame later in 2020, which could be the successor (long overdue) for the Sportster. The third new H-D bike, that's been put off for a while, is the 1250 engine in a street cruiser called the "Custom". As Indian has shown, and other bikes have had for years, there is no need to have a1800cc engine to put out horsepower. Ducati got 200hp out of 1200 cc's long ago, The K1600 has 160 horsepower, and the R1250RT isn't far behind. Liquid cooling, DOHC, and the proper engine management system should produce a lot more ponies than the big twins from Indian or H-D have been kicking out. Look at the Scout that puts out 100 h.p. from 69 inches. One thing that I'm really happy to see is the rear jug cut out. Car engines have had selective disablement for ages, and now we get it on a v-twin, so we don't have to roast our right thighs at every traffic light. About time! Going to be interesting to see all the other goodies when it's released. I wonder if they'll also make this available in a cruiser chassis, to offset the new Softails. Guys (#blockhead) who bought a new Low Rider S are going to be in for a shock, if that happens.
@@GearsGadgets Нормально,через переводчик всё понятно👍У Харлей девидсона не заморачиваться на эту тему,а вот например Индиан Спрингфилд вроде можно сделать без кофров и будет хорошо выглядеть.
I like it, that engine will be SUPER RELIABLE, and the ease of power and torque combined with the smoothness will make a fantastic tourer/cruiser, I ride a HD XR1200 and I am drooling over the new FTR1200S, I may make a switch to Indian in the future, they are on a good roll.
My 2020 HD makes about 80 hp on a good day. It actually does fine, I haven't found myself needing any more yet, but that new Indian engine makes 122 hp. Most guys buying HDs are spending another $5k for 20 hp. Except for a few who really drink the Kool Aid, I'm afraid this one is the final nail in the coffin. RIP Harley Davidson 1903-2020 I just hope I can get parts for mine for the next 10 yrs or so...
Yeah the parts and dealer network is a concern but if Indian knocks this one out of the park, the dealer network might be expanding a little more rapidly. This bike looks like a grand slam but we have to see how it rides.
@@GearsGadgets If it's made by Polaris, a great ride is a given. And that engine just changed the cruiser game completely. Still want to know how much maintenance is involved though. So glad to see Polaris CEO Scott Wine pulled his head out of his ass.
@@GearsGadgets Oh yeah, it's game over: ridermagazine.com/2019/10/22/indian-unveils-liquid-cooled-powerplus-108-v-twin/ "The unit crankcase has a semi-dry oil sump that holds five quarts. To reduce maintenance and improve reliability, the overhead camshafts have hydraulic chain tensioners and the valves have hydraulic lash adjusters. The 6-speed constant mesh transmission has an overdrive top gear and a cable-actuated wet assist clutch."
Something I noticed: Did they find a way to light up the War Bonnet on the front fender again? They were always lit with the original skirted front wheel, but when they moved to the chopped front fender they did not light up. From pausing on your video it looks like the war bonnet lights up again on a chopped fender???
Yea, I like. Still love the Victory concepts. Knew the engine was for Victory but sales talk.I definitely would go the Challenger route.But man, wait till they offer stage kits and cams and dont forget when Lloyd dives inside that motor..Geezzz hold onto your seat.. It is going to be a beast of a bagger.. Definitely more bang for your buck..
Lloyd is heavily rumored to have a couple of these engines already. You know he'll be first to aftermarket with upgrades. I'll wait until the first year bugs are ironed out before I get rid of my XCT.
Great video. I've been thinking of a Raod glide. Now I have to wait and check the Challenger out and then wait to see if Harley is going to step their game up. Damn.... Lol
Great video! I appreciate the follow up with clearer pictures and video. I gotta admit, it looks pretty good... I’m a Road Glide fan for sure but I’m going to have to see this one in person and take it down the road. I’m wondering if there will be a full bagger version released at the same time and would it also have a “Dark Horse” edition? If so, I might be interested in the “Cycloptomaster Dark Horse” 🐎!!
HAHA they do have a Challenger Dark Horse but from what I see no Road Master version yet. I asked my local dealer if he saw any trunks for the Challenger and he said no but I am sure they will. I personally don't love the look of the Indian lowers and trunk currently but the rest of the styling is solid. Hope to see a new version of lowers and trunk design for this bike. Time will tell.
@@GearsGadgets Lowers should be built in/connected with the fairing, not two separate pieces. I miss that with the Road Glide Ultra/Limited too... My 2 cents
I put money that the tour trunk that fits the Chieftain/Roadmaster will fit on this. They would be stupid to design a different trunk for this one model when the trunk they have now can fit the quick disconnects on everything but the Scout and FTR. Even if they don't have a full dresser outta the box....it would be extremely easy to make your own with the parts they have available.
I was always a fan of the Victory Vision with electric windshield and it's great fit for my 6'5" frame, currently own a 2019 FLHT, and will check out the new Challenger when it hits the local dealer. Thanks for the discussion.
@@GearsGadgets Yep that's the big question. I like the weight of the FLHT but now like the RG Limited so will be interesting to see if there is Challenger version.
Good video i ride a harley but i think that the touring modelos on indian are getting better,, what do you think of the 120 R /or 120 st motor on the harley touring line up? Thank yoi
WOW! I was thinking of trading my Road King on an RG in another year or two but after seeing this I'm leaning toward the Indian Challenger. I've ridden my buddy's Chieftain and it outhandles my RK and any SG that I've ridden so I really thought about Indian but there was no fixed fairing model. This takes care of that issue. Great video and review! Love my Harleys but one should be able to get on a bike and ride without having to worry how far it is to the next dealer in the event of a breakdown. I think Polaris has proven that it has built reliable equipment not only with their brand named products but with Victory and Indian. I try to do as much work as I can on my bikes and after reviewing the engine design on Indian VS Harley I have to say I do believe the Indian has a superior, (more efficient) engine design. Not only that, Indian offers FOREVER WARRANTY, but that shows confidence in your product. I would love to see you and Adam Sandoval collaborate on this!
@@donsvideos1985 Not at all, I rode the Vaquero and I own a 19 Roadglide Special and there's absolutely no comparison whatsoever between these 2 bikes, NIGHT & DAY, the Roadglide being far superior.
That engine is essentially a Victory engine that they water cooled. Four valve overhead cams with hydraulic lifter. Pure Victory. With water cooling, you should be able to push that engine to 150 - 160 HP at the rear wheel and still have reliability.
Twin cooled which is liquid cooling but only for the heads, not the entire motor so the cylinders are still air cooled while the heads get liquid cooling. It’s a bit of a hybrid but not actually a fully liquid cooled motor.
The Swiss Auto division of Polaris built the racing engine for the Indian flat track racing platform. Is it possible they had a hand in the development of this engine?
Gears & Gadgets, thank you for giving an honest video about the Indian challenger. I have seen Adam Sandoval's video as well. I was looking at a Goldwing and the F6B version. But Honda made the trunk and bags to small. And honestly I would prefer and American made bike verses a metric. Although right now I own a metric because it is my first bike. But, I am looking for honest feedback about something other than HD. I like HD but, shirts and calendars are not what make a bike. I like the blur the lines idea and giving me another option to think about. All in all, great video. Thank you.
Interestingly, the H-D V-Rod and Indian Challenger engines are basically IDENTICAL platforms! Both are 60 degree liquid-cooled DOHC, 4 valve per cylinder V-twins with EFI and running belt final drive. The big difference is displacement: 69/76ci vs 108ci and V-Rod's ability to rev higher. So basically Polaris-Indian mimiced the H-D V-Rod but just made it larger and lower revving. Of course there are Japanese engines similar to this too.
@@GearsGadgets Yes, and maybe this time it will stick. Way back in the 1970s H-D built the similar Porsche derived 60 degree DOHC liquid cooled V2 & V4 NOVA engine but never produced it because the Evo engine turned out so well. Some said the V-Rod was merely a worked over NOVA engine. It will be interesting to see if the new liquid H-D is a similarly worked over V-Rod. New Harley/Indian war is cool stuff.
@@sacrificialrook6283 I think you're right. I looked some more and the Challenger engine is called OHC -- not DOHC -- but only in one place. Other sites just say "camshafts." P-I is playing coy with the specs. Even so, Harley-Davidson already made an advanced liquid cooled V-twin but never made a bagger version out of it like this Challenger seems to be. Now they're caught with their pants down!
@@sacrificialrook6283 Actually, if Challenger is SOHC then it's more like the legendary 1915 Cyclone V-twin motorcycle built right there in Minnesota. A better name for it too. Wasn't the Challenger the space shuttle that blew up?
Here's some numbers: 3rd quarter U.S. sales; H-D -3.2%, Polaris -3% from last year and 2018 was a lack luster year. H-D projected to end 2019 at 214,000 units down from last years 231,000 units. But the most significant number is this year more people in the U.S. gave up their motorcycle license than applied for a license. Its great to see all these new models and innovation but are these manufacturers just missing the mark and fighting over a declining market share? Added to the new Challenger; BMW's R18, Triumph's Rocket III, plus the touring king Honda's Goldwing. Is H-D's "Many Roads" strategy just leading to a dead end.
I have this feeling that people just stopped caring about motorcycles because the entire market was just kind of stale. I think competition like this is exactly what the industry needs to get manufacturers pushing out NEW stuff, not just re-treads of the same bike that is 20 years old.
@@GearsGadgets Cycle World today named their top 10 of 2019 - Cruiser; Ducati XDiavel - "Culture and Italian beauty". Their comment, "weight", manufacturers need to design with power to weight ratio in mind first. Implied in their comments, American cruisers are fat, under powered, and don't handle well. Triumph, BMW, and KTM all did well placing multiple bikes. Also, Honda is teasing a baby Goldwing, light touring, using the new Africa Twin 1100 engine. Challenger moving in the right direction but still too heavy. H-D doesn't seem to get it, yet.
Since the launch of restyled, mono-shock Softail models in 2018, I have been waiting for MoCo to launch mono-shock touring models with adjustable windshield, remote locking hard bags and TPMS. Most touring motorcycles from Indian, Honda and BMW offered these features for many years. Meanwhile, HD released the Boom Box GTS for MY2019 (which still requires upgrading to hear the music at 90mph). And RDRS with TPMS for MY2020 @ $1,000. I really cannot understand why Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales are plummeting? (sarcasm) Believe it or not, I want to buy a Road Glide Special as soon as they are revised with the above features. How much longer do I have to wait HD?
Totally get it!!. Thats why at the end of my video I alluded to the fact that if I was in the market with everything going on right now and REALLY loved Harley so much that I couldn't buy an Indian, I dont know if I could buy a current Harley KNOWING they MUST be changing soon, they HAVE to right?
As much as I love HD, I am not brand loyal. I will buy a bike that suits me the most. I prefer feet forward riding position. That narrows my touring bike options significantly. Everything your said in your video resonated with me. You were talking about people like me. I have saved up and able to buy a bike right now, but I will not buy a bike that has not changed much in a decade. Even with a new M8 engine (which I love riding). Especially since some folks are suffering from transmission fluid migrating to the engine OR engine oil sumping OR both. The M8 is in its 4th year of production with 3 revisions of oil pump and still have issues. The last time Harley released a new engine (Twin Cam), it had a bucket load of issues too for several years. However, the difference is the Internet. Thanks to TH-cam channels like your’s and various motorcycle forums, potential motorcycle buyers research their bikes before walking into the dealership. Bad reviews in 2019 hurts the brand 10 times more than back in 1998. Add to that, only American touring motorcycles need stage upgrades for their engines to unlock the full potential for thousands of dollars. Even the stereo has stage 1 and 2 upgrades. And after spending $5K on pipes, air cleaner and stage 3 big bore kit, due to the mass, factory-stock Honda and BMW out perform us all day long. What would it really cost for Harley and Indian to offer Stage 3 Big Bore engine as the factory engine? Not much. Wait a minute, Indian did that in MY2020. 🤔 Harley updates their products so slowly, it is just too painful to watch sometimes. The competition is way ahead! Catch-up, if you don't want to lose any more of your market share.
Thx for the great video. You’re right, people are not as brand loyal as past years. I just replaced my Harley bagger with a new Goldwing. Harley just wasn’t offering enough upgrades.
I ride an '18 RG. Im 6'2" and have 17" Todd bars. This Challenger looks like the tank is longer, or you are sitting farther back to me. Those stock bars are coming more toward the rider than up. Im curious what shoulder level bars would look like on this bike. Personally, i would have got an Indian if there was a local dealer. Now a fixed fairing bike and the new powerplant, its more than a Contender. Good video. Thanks for the peek.
I really hope that they do a non-fairing version of this bike. Also I actually love the look of the radiator (I have since the Scout). It's sort of looks like a fighter jet intake to me.
I think they will build off that platform for sure especially if it is wildly successful. I think Indian has a pretty clear road map planned. The Cheiftain and Scout were the first steps, the Challenger the next, im sure more is coming.
I think $30 to $32k. HD is charging $1500 for a black engine on touring bikes. Indian does not on their Dark Horse models. It will be less $ than their Elite models. I've heard there is 3 sub models of the Challenger. Some type of standard, dark horse & limited.
Long time roadglide rider and this will be my next one as long as the engine proves to be reliable give it a year and time to trade my old faithful 2005
I currently own a road king. 6'2" and was planning on a Road Glide being my next bike. Im definitely going to test ride this. Ive been pretty solidly a Harley guy for a while but if the Challenger is better than the Road King then I'll get it. Really just that simple. I work hard for my money. Im not going to buy the lesser of the two bikes just for brand loyalty. HD needs to step up their game if they want to earn my money. Not step up the peer pressure.
I see inverted forks too, I wonder if this is intended to be a sport bagger, they also look a tad smaller than a RG. I also wonder how expensive this will be, I suspect it will be more expensive than the Chieftain.
I mean, has the road glide been updated since 1988? My statement above is with no known facts about the road glide other than it still looks the same since the day it was born.
The rushmore changes in 2014 even by Harley's own admission were "Neither trendy nor trying to make a fashion statement". Basically the look of the Road Glide has stayed pretty much the same for well... ever. Non-motorcycle riders would have a hard time differentiating a mint condition 2007 Road Glide from a 2020 Road Glide. Matter of fact, a beat up 2020 Road Glide vs a Mint 2007 Road Glide would probably trick most non-riders. You couldnt say the same for 99% of any other automotive / motorcycle design except for a Toyota Tacoma maybe.
The Indian motor alone is reason to consider it. I love the styling of the HD, but I can't justify buying an air cooled motor, unless it were half the price of the competition.
Harley is likely gonna keep beating the same dead horse and come up short, I just can't see them doing something revolutionary. I am hopeful they surprise me, but their company culture is evolution not revolution.
I agree, I wish they would just swing for the fences with an all new touring bike that keeps a lot of styling cues but is just completely revolutionary. Find a way to make an Ultra Limited weigh 750 lbs with lightweight materials or something crazy. Harley could be SO much more with their name. The Livewire brings me hope that they are willing to buck the trend of their normal.
C'mon guys, H-D already tried this stuff with the V--Rod engine and it didn't sell. What Harley Didn't do was make a V-Rod bagger as some of us suggested.
@@herbwag6456 I dont see the compaison between the Challenger and the V-Rod other than a liquid cooled motor. Indian is going more toward comfortable touring bike on this one and i think its going to be a home run.
@@GearsGadgets Goes WAY beyond that. Both V-Rod and Challenger engines are basically IDENTICAL platforms! Both are 60 degree DOHC 4 valve per cylinder V-twins with EFI and running belt final drive. The big difference is displacement: 69/76ci vs 108ci and V-Rods ability to rev higher. So basically Indian DID copy H-D but just made it larger and lower revving.
As HD and Indian compete, be sure to wait a couple of model years for the manufacturers to work out the bugs. Yep, I’m a Harley guy but competition helps us mere “end consumers” in the long term.
Liquid cooling and 60 degree motor sounds similar to the Scout and that is a derivative of the Vrod motor, which I loved. The new motor HD is working with on the Pan American, Street Fighter and Custom looks to be the direct competition to the Indian plus motor. This should be an interesting year coming up, love my M8 Fat Bob but my 1st HD was a Vrod and I loved that motor back in the day. Always wondered why HD didn't do do more with that motor back then. New sub brother stay safe and ride hard or stay home😎
Thanks FatBob Jim, I HOPE this accelerates the Motor Company's R&D team and really lights a fire under their simmering ass. I feel Harley's incremental changes to a proven platform are what is starting to make the brand stale. I think they need to come out swinging with an all new touring bike that does some incredibly new and forward thinking things in the world of baggers. Problem is, Harley should be setting the bar and for years they have just been raising it an inch at a time. Meanwhile Indian just came in and looks like they raised the bar a foot and crushed it.
@@GearsGadgets When the Vrod was discontinued, I was told by someone in the know that the Vrod drivetrain would live on in some form. I guess that's what we are seeing in the prototypes that FatBob Jim listed. I think it's shortsighted to say that the motor company is resting on its laurels when you have these models on the horizon, not to mention the recent development of the M8 and the Livewire. Right now touring sales are down for both Indian and HD. People are looking for lighter, more "urban" bikes. That's why Indian is really pushing the Scout lineup and why HD is going in the direction they are with the prototypes. That's why I'm a little confused why they introduced this model. Maybe it will give the touring segment a shot in the arm.. We'll see.
“Road Glide to Gold Wing”....good take. My 06 RG I could not fix the hideous wind buffeting with anything and I hear of the same issues now with the new models.. All that fairing and no clean wind, or minimal wind. On an R1200GSA and that little w/shield does a way better job of wind protection. If the new Indian can be what the H-D ought to be, I might be seriously interested. I’m not at all Gold Wing, hence this new bike.
Interesting. I definitely see the RG to Gold Wing journey as a little bit of one of a happy journey but one of defeat for HD guys none the less. I think Indian might have an interception planned here as well.
Gears & Gadgets one of defeat might be a stretch. I would get to an R1200RT before Gold Wing. Many would as well. I discovered I truly wasn’t a bagger guy after owning an 06 RG. The non bagger Harley all day, love em and I’m seriously considering the Low Rider S. Distance riding I’ll take the BMW all day, wether GS or RT.
I have a 2010 victory cross country with 89k miles on it. From what I've seen and read so far, I would trade it in for a challenger. The 2020 ruby smoke is a gorgeous color with the black accents of the darkhorse. Sell that in the challenger, under $30k and I'm in.
Seems Polaris just cannot design anything without using a Harley as their starting point. If you want a Harley Davidson, then go out and buy one. Polaris has a history of letting their customers down, just ask those with Victory's or Slingshots how Polaris has treated them, lol For me, I will stick with what works and that's Harley Davidson, Period. I hope Harley-Davidson stays true to what built them, no need to compete with Polaris on any liquid cooled engine. that's what I Love about my Harleys is that engine and the sound it delivers, nothing beats it.
Everyone takes cues from the other, Harley took the vent on the front of the fairing and nobody in the Harley world complained about Harley stealing that idea. There are only so many different things you can do with a motorcycle, look at sport bikes for christ sake. I couldn't tell you one sport bike manufacturer from another. The difference really comes into standard features and power plants. With this offering it looks like Indian is CRUSHING the competition in power plants so.... Your move Harley-Davidson!!. Oh, also another thought, when Harley switches to 100% liquid cooled and standard LED's all around, will you accuse them of copying Indian? I hope so otherwise that would make you hypocritical.
@@GearsGadgets Perfect response. I've owned both Indian and Harley. Currently back with Harley. I am a Harley Guy. With that said, on the touring chassis bikes, the Indians handle so much better. The suspension is miles ahead. I recently traded in my Street Glide for the new Softail Sport Glide. Power to weight/Suspension and Handling are superior on the Sport Glide or any of the new softail bikes. The Challenger will hopefully create some excitement in the bagger/touring segment. Wake the MOCO up. They really need to change their touring chassis. Also the lack of complete LED lighting is irresponsible. I'll repeat I'm a Harley Guy, however Indian is coming. Harley needs to step-up. I for one am very excited about the Challenger. There is a very good chance that one of these will follow me home within the next year. Take care.
Richard Watson Jr. Great reply when you have nothing to add, lol Competition is good sure, but when it’s so obvious your targeting a specific bike because you cannot design anything yourself then I guess it is what it is. My experience with Polaris and how they run their brands has not been very good. They change like the wind and for me and my wallet, I’m not going to risk it on a product that may not be around or at least have the dealer and parts inventory support that I know Harley has. If you need any examples ask those who bought Victory or Slingshots and how they are being left out in the dark by Polaris now that they seem to be spending most of their current attention at the moment on Indian. After coming home from Sturgis, it was obvious they are spending money on advertising out there, but our friends who are sling shot owners had no demo rides whatsoever there. It’s your wallet, spend where you want, but being a owner of two Harley’s, I’m great full for their dealer network and the ease of parts and accessories for many years. Cannot say the same for Indian.
So how much does it cost. Most likely another 30K mortgage needed to buy. Out of my price range. Can get huge discounts on a Star Eluder. It would be tough to overpay. We will see once they are in the dealers
@@GearsGadgets these prices is why I currently own a 2017 Kawasaki Voyager. Turns fine and put 20K miles on it and like it. The money saved goes into using the bike on long trips.
Will definitely help the Eluder. I see brand new Eluders selling for 16,000. That is definitely enticing, as opposed to 30k+ for the Indian. Also hope fit and finish is better on this Indian luxury bike, as opposed to their other offerings.
Indian dealership called left me a message. $500 deposit if buying, starting a waiting list. Only getting a few challengers per dealership. But didn't say how much $$$$$ for one.
Great job on show in the new challenger. I hear you're a softail man. It looks like it's a reach for the Handle bars. Looking at the video the rider's arms look like they're extended out so it looks like about the same reaches the rogue Glide. I'm not will impress with the numbers Ali Davis and has been making those numbers for quite some time with a little bit of change. And yes I agree with you the Softail Is an awesome bike you can do a lot with it. The beautiful thing about them is that they're sore rebuild obal. Remember indeed is not like that yet. I'm just talking at someone who spends a lot of time on the road. I wanna rogue Glide CVO, And a Softail. Looks like a nice bike.
Torque rules over horsepower in the way most people perceive “power”. (Fast hard pull and acceleration under load). The numbers between RG and Challenger aren’t significant enough for average Joe Schmoe to detect. Unless they release a true touring version with large capacity trunk, they’ll be lagging all the competitors. I predict there’ll be several new model issues to iron out over the first two production years. 2022 models will be the first year where you won’t be bit by unwelcome surprises.
Indian will take away from HD but not from the Goldwing. GW riders dont want V twins. They want the smoothness of the 6's. The biggest gripe about the new wings is the loss in baggage capacity. That may sway some more than any other part of the bike.
Im not too sure about that. I think the Gold Wing takes some guys away from HD simply for refinement but those guys probably would prefer to spend money with an american company but only spent money with Honda because they had no other choice. Indian might be finding that wedge.
Do you think this new engine, being water cooled and OHC, will be too refined and lose the soul we love with a big pushrod vtwin? The goldwing has lots of performance, power, etc.. but to me, its too refined. I want that soul of a big v-twin. Hope this bike still has it cause the specs make it look like a performance oriented road glide. Brembos, inverted forks, one piece crankshaft, mono shock rear, gear drive primary......
I think the Challenger will be the best shot at keeping the American V-Twin but making it modern. If the performance gains are there (seems they are) I think a LOT of people will sacrifice some soul for power. Just my thought.
MrAudio77 if you want soul, ride an evo. If you want character, ride a shovel. Harley m8 motors don’t have soul. Like you said they are too refined for what they are, minus the hp lol
@@John_shepard Disagree. What sets HD apart in my opinion is the SOUL. IMHO the M8 is just fine. Love the Look/Character/Soul of the new M8 power plant.
BCB SILVER HAWK they feel like metrics at idle, even the starter sound annoys me. It’s not same shaky feeling I grew up on 🤷🏾♂️ thats what set Harley last apart was the fact that you actually feel/ see a big dumb tractor motor shaking beneath you. All personal opinions ride safe!
@@John_shepard Thanks for the comment. While I do agree the new, M8 is definitely more refined than the older power plants, especially in stock form, with new exhaust and air cleaner they do come alive. For me they still have the Harley soul that other manufacturers have not been able to duplicate. Hard to explain. My personal opinion. Take care.
The Chieftan is a Street Glide copy. The Challenger is a Road Glide copy. Polaris/Indian would die, again, if they didn't go to Harley styling. Let me know when someone puts that 108 on a Dyno and tell me what the HP really is.
That is the attitude that will put Harley-Davidson under. Keep laughing at the competition. Harley 114 puts out 90 HP on the Dyno. If the PowerPlus drops from 122 to 108 on the dyno that is still 18 HP over Harley. A fully liquid cooled V-Twin that pumps out 108 HP (I will give it to you) is Hardly a copy. This Harley superiority complex is like the hot chick who lives in a small town who calls the new hot chick an ugly slut. Eventually everyone catches on and she just becomes old fodder and every start chasing the new girl. Time to stop dismissing the competition and time to start trying some things.
Gears & Gadgets I like the styling of my road glide and the aftermarket part support but I can admit Indian is putting out some awesome bikes. They offer a ton of standard features including the different ride modes which I think is cool. I personally want to see the company be successful. I didn’t buy the chieftain because it just didn’t have that low end torque I was looking for and there was a slight delay on the throttle response. The dealership support is not there yet and theirs always the fear that they may go out of business. I’m sure this bike is going to handle well because of the inverted front end. Unfortunately Harley tend to wobble and it’s due to the horrible suspension and rubber isolators. I had to spend 2700 buck on Ohlins suspension to get the bike to handle like a premium bike should. Thanks for the video. Although I’m not buying a new bike no time soon. I do plan to test ride the challenger when it comes out
When it comes down to it for aerodynamics there is only so many ways you can make a fairing. Victory actually had the fairing vent on their bikes prior to the 2014 HD. In every video no matter who test rides the Indian it is lighter off the kick stand than HD and the perfect height wimdshield on an HD always a few to get it right. This is just ones observation who been riding Road Glides since 09.
I’m excited about the bike not because I would get one but I think this is a jumping off point for future bikes with this motor. As for the bike itself, fixed fairing isn’t my thing. I’d like to have seen another headlight in the fairing, to me it doesn’t look proportional. Excellent video thanks for sharing it.
Thanks FNG. Appreciate it. I am excited because I think this is a shot fired at the rest of the industry too and ALL of us consumers are going to get a better product from ALL brands for the competition. Its a good thing. Again, hats off to Indian. Thanks for watching!
True, but the Chieftain offers those features standard and don't require you to spend $45,000 to get them standard. It will be very interesting to see where the pricing comes in on this Challenger.
There’s not one manufacturer who aims @ the Honda Goldwing. At least not that I’ve seen. I have a 2019 RGS & my wife has a 2020 RGS. But I must say, the Goldwing is the KING OF THE MOUNTAIN 🤴🏿. But that’s just my OPINION.
BMW K1600B definitely went after the Gold Wing. I love the technology of both those bikes, but I can’t get past the styling. So I bought a Chieftain. I have a strong feeling this will be my next bike in a couple years. Great styling, with new tech, that’s a winner in my book. Can’t wait to test ride one.
Tony D'Angelo I hear you. I just had a bad experience with Indian. They’re nice bike until you have a problem. Then you’re on your own. You’ll receive absolutely no help at all. Hopefully you’ll never find out.
Great video and insight. We should colab sometime soon.
Thanks Adam!!! I would collab anytime. Maybe you can get Indian to patch me into the TH-cam MC and we can do a collab Challenger video. 🤞
Wow... You got a lot of attention from heavy weight motovloggers....
Adam put me in to, have Indian sponsor 2 challengers and let us ride em till the wheels fall off in Phoenix, AZ.Its are riding season.Yea boyyy
Lol Derek I wasn’t asking for a free Challenger, just looking to get on one for a review.
Yea, that's what I was suggestion as well.You and Adam get 3 and included me in..
Thanks for the shout out, brotha! I'm digging the look and still look forward to seeing the performance cruiser option that people start throwing out there. Overall great vid!
Thanks Jon!! Appreciate you opening my eyes to view this more broadly than a Challenger vs Road Glide play. Really made me realize this was a very calculated design by Indian to basically target the broader bagger market. I even viewed the Challenger name as a shot at Harley but I now view it as a bold shot at the entire industry. I think this power plant will absolutely be able to handle some sick power in the after market. How many guys who felt defeated trading their Road Glide for all of the bells and whistles of a Gold Wing get sweet talked by Indian back into the American V-Twin liquid cooled bike with similar options?
@@GearsGadgets Heck yeah! As you and many have pointed out, competition in the industry helps speed up innovation. And as consumers, it's nice to have all the different options.
There is always more power to be made, hopefully there's room in the bottom end for a stroked crank. Not much room on the previous Indian motor.
Great video! I've been a road glide owner since 2011, with over 100.000 miles travelled. It's time to try an Indian. They look great!!!
Thanks Peanut. I think Indian had a lot of people peeking in windows with the Chieftain, I think this Challenger will get them in the door at a rapid pace.
I’m in the market for a new touring bike this story peaked my interest.
I would absolutely wait and test ride one of the Challengers first. Local dealer tells me mid-november.
Harley should have taken the VRODs engine technology and plugged that into the touring models. I’ve been saying that for years.
I have heard that from a lot of guys. I chalk that up to their fear of the core demographic. The same core demographic that isn't trading in their older bikes for newer bikes lol.
That does sound great! Maybe make a few models from each division available with the Porsche motor. Such as the Street Glide and Road Glide from touring. Then several Dyna models, and several soft tail models. I would think there would be some interest in the idea because several guys I knew had the V rods but wish the have more choices.
Agreed, it might have swayed even more riders to harley.Myself k1600b and scout bobber. I expect more performance for the money and that vrod engine in a touring bike would have been interesting
That's a Porsche engine, bud. HD ain't sophisticated enough to come up with that on their own
A real objective, unbiased report. Impressive!
Thanks Patrick!!
Agreed with everything! This is no copy. Similar looks, but definitely not a copy. Great points.
Thanks Brandon!!
I was part of the design focus group on this bike two years ago. It's a direct swipe at HD but as you said its sooo much more. It should have a ton of bells, whistles, and doo dads that'll knock your socks off. Looking forward to 10/29.
Indian needed a bike with a frame mounted fairing (to compete & to corner harder). Frame mounted bikes corner harder a lot easier. My Vision would out corner a CC. My Roadmaster does not corner near my Vision's capabilities. Plus Indian's heat on riders issue. Bad idea to put a cat under the rider instead of in the mufflers.
Really, that is fascinating. I would love to know what the focus group entailed.
Yeah, I would love to know more about the focus group and how can I get invited to the next one? They must not have my number....
@@GearsGadgets I was in a group for the Vic Magnum. We were asked a lot of questions about our preferences via email. Did not know the details of the Magnum until it was released. Questions we were asked then were obvious. They asked me by email if I would participate.
Having owned nothing but harleys my whole motorcycling life (5) this is a breath of fresh air. The fact that so many Harley nut huggers are on here bashing this bike or the brand is ridiculous. Dealer network? I’m sure it will expand over time it hasn’t been ten years for this brand. Why everyone so worried about breaking down?😂 get a damn manual and find out the shortcomings of certain models before you buy so you can know what to look for before a trip/ regular maintenance. I like Harley’s because they’re big dumb tractors that although underpowered are easy to work on. Yes you can make em fast but you gotta spend a lot to do that.
The fact that Indian is coming out with this shows they are looking into what the current American cruiser market is looking for (more power, inverted front ends, decent brakes) out the door. Harley will have to become fully water cooled within 10 years if they are to adapt to the times/epa regulations. You can only make an air cooled motor so big/ dependable. Also, Their main source of income (baby boomers) is dwindling so they’re in a identity crisis on what they should do. These new m8 engines don’t even feel like nor sound like harleys btw.
Excited to see how Harley responds
Hd came out with the VRod engine a few years back. If that was in a GLide I'd be on one. Sadly the HD purists didn't embrace it.
HAHA thanks Peter. I agree this is refreshing for the whole industry.
Double Huh yea well times are changing, people want stuff like this now. Those same people who complained about the vrod are possibly not even riding or phasing it out of their life due to age.
@@PhilC64
Porsche designed engine.
@@Sig721Tau It was an exciting collaboration IMHO. If they offered that engine as an option I'd be riding it. Instead the moco kept the single pin crank and pushrods with newer colors.
Actually I like this front end. Great seeing touring bikes going with liquid motors
Yeah I totally agree
I'm an old guy riding for 50+ years. Currently Indian Springfield. You do great work. Better than the rest. Facts only. Excellent. The Intern series is great. Good luck ride safe.
Thanks I really appreciate that.
This is good for ALL cruiser riders...competition is good for consumers
100%
Enjoyed this video. The Challenger looks like a solid ride. They are pushing H-D’s buttons.
Thanks Bronco
H-D already tried this motor technology with the V--Rod engine and it didn't sell. What Harley didn't do was make a V-Rod bagger as some of us strongly suggested
Its coming!!
As the saying goes, "Hindsight is always 20/20." Bought my V-Rod in 2013. And it's still going strong!
@@eldixon100 How good would the V-Rod engine be in a sport touring motorcycle?
Herb Wag, my local HD dealer said at the time that HD planned on putting the Vrod engine in a full tourer & obviously changed their mind.
@@herbwag6456 In my humble opinion, I feel that the V-Rod power plant (engine) would be an excellent choice for a sport-touring bike (on a par with BMW's 1200-1300cc series motorcycles). However, just as the V-Rod cruiser configuration (frame) was "built around the engine," the sport-touring version would have to be as well. For example: the 'velocity stacks' of the air intake (where the gas tank of other bikes are located) would have to be moved 'further forward' and placed side by side. This would leave the remaining room for a gas tank that would begin from 'behind the stacks,' and then extend over the heads of the motor, then down under the seat (where V-Rod cruiser gas tanks are located). This would increase the fuel capacity of the gas tank and hence the traveling distance of the bike. Or another idea could be to simply make the rider's seat "an integral part of the frame itself." The inside (core) of the seat would be the gas tank extending down to where V-Rod tanks are now. The outer part would be where the padding is and the rider sits upon. Keep in mind that I'm just a layman here "throwing up some wild ideas."
I just purchased a 2020 Roadglide Special and I must say I'm impressed the HP is there, liquid cool engine and LEDs running lights all around. I can't even hate!
The Road Glide Special does not come with LED running lights all around. It is also not liquid cooled, it is oil cooled which is not the same or as good. It is the same setup in my 2018 Heritage 114. If you have LED's all around it is likely that the dealer installed them and you paid for it but don't realize it.
@@GearsGadgets He was speaking of the Challenger not his RGS...
Gears & Gadgets Sorry miss understanding I was referring to the Challenger can’t wait to test ride it!
Victory with an Indian badge
Indian with an Indian badge with some victory R&D to boot.
@@GearsGadgets that engine was designed for the next Victory till they shut um down....and look the the shape...thats a Cross Country all the way, handlebars to the gas tank
I disagree. Victory never did all that well in the market. Are they great machines? You bet. However, these new bike are INDIAN. Indian is growing stronger. It is my hope that they are here to stay. There is something about HD and Indian fighting it out to prove who is #1. Brings back a touch of nostalgia. I'm diggin' it. Take care.
@@bcbsilverhawk8426 I knew about this engine years ago from a Victory engineer it was designed to go in the next Cross Country before it was shut down and they just shifted it to this Indian.....those lines are purely Cross Country with just a little Indian flare
@@hiposho68 No disagreement here. Just saying its all Indian now. Victory is no more. Indian and Harley going toe to toe. Will be fun to watch. I love the competition. Take care.
I've been looking at trading my street glide in on a new goldwing.. Now i think I'll wait. I'd much rather have an Indian!
Yeah I don't blame you to wait and see.
@@GearsGadgets I've been looking to go the opposite direction. The plastics on my old GL1500 are starting to get brittle, and I still think they have more years in them than the plastics on a brand new GL1800. If you're considering one, give a serious look at a lightly used '17 instead of buying new. You'll see that the compartments in the fairing and the gas door are more solid on the '17 than the newer ones. It feels like Honda downgraded.
Sitting on an 2018+ Street Glide and Goldwing, I'd say that the Goldwing is probably easier to handle in a traffic jam, mainly due to a lighter clutch. However, the flimsy plastics of the new wing vs the Harley would make me choose the HD. 2017 and earlier.... well the Honda would win.
You won’t regret owning an Indian I’ve owned an Indian now for a year and I’m really impressed with it!
I have test ridden a few Indians recently and I would strongly suggest you do the same before you buy a Gold Wing. An Indian will give you all of the history, street cred and American styling of a Harley but in a much better motorcycle with a better, smoother, more powerful engine and better feature implementation. Not quite the "2-wheeled car" that is the GW but thats a good thing in my book.
@@5FWS5 to be honest, I get a very strong 2 wheeled car vibe in Indian showrooms. I think it's because they're designed to highlight their infotainment systems. I didn't have that feeling a couple years ago.
Yo awesome vid and sick Kriver shoutout in the pic, I'm hoping to go there sometime next year if possible. Props to you for reaching out to the dude and getting hi rez pics and videos.
Thanks. Kriver was awesome. I highly recommend it.
As a previous Harley owner once said.. "ive never used a trailer so much in my life" always broken. Well done Frasiers of Dianella western australia. Dont deal with these guys.
Interesting. I will take your recommendation and stay away from Dianella of Western Australia lol.
Chris Mcguigan my Harley has never had that issue neither did my last one
@@Xboxliveyomomma127 cool dude.. i would like to buy a Harley but ive seen so many broken ones that it put me off.. they're not cheap. Its a serious purchase.
Great Vid...I'll be sticking with my 2019 RGS. I think that the RG is still a better looking bike...What can say...I'm loyalist.
Thanks. I appreciate loyalists. Motorcycles are 100% subjective. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching!!
then youre not in this market demo
Bravo to loyalty
Dave Lindsey
No one cares.
@@Sig721Tau you sound like a sukker that bought an Indian
Tuesday is going to be an exciting day! I truly believe some of the design influence carried over from Victory for this motor & bike.
No shit. When did they stop.
Polaris Killed Victory in 2017 to put all their efforts into Indian. I'm pretty sure they didn't roll out any new 2017 Bikes so the last new Victory's you could buy were 2016. I bought a 2012 Victory Cross Country Tour with 27K on It in March of 18 cause it was my dream bike and I got a really good deal on it.
I agree. I can't wait.
Thanks for no commercials. I've unsubbed from several content creators that now include commercials. Good job. Harley needs to step it up. The Indian 108 vs the 114 from Harley absolutely kills it.
Oh I run commercials too. Most people aren’t into spending thousands of dollars on equipment and 20-30 hours a week for 3-4 years producing content for $0 payback. Commercials in exchange for free content is a pretty good deal when compared to cable that charges you $80 a month AND runs commercials.
I didn't get a commercial. Weird.
When you run ads on content TH-cam only runs ads on about 75- 80% of your views. So not everyone sees an add all the time.
MGTOW_ LIFE kills it with power but reliability nahhh
I pay youtube for no commercials (dont remember what they call it). If you watch a fair amount of videos I think it's worth it. First 2 months were free.
It looks like what you'd get if Victory and Indian had a baby. I like the lines, style, and liquid cooling.
lol true.
Great to see Indian incorporate features from other brands. More choice for more riders. As you so truthfully stated, riders will decide with their wallets and brains as to which is the bike for them. Thanks for the heads up on the Challenger brother, appreciate it. Greetings from the land of Oz.
I agree. We all win.
Thanks for sharing. Im a lot more into it now that I get to see higher def content. For people who are more into the ride than pride this will score big.
Yeah I totally agree. I also think it might blur the line if pride a bit for some.
I am impressed by the positive response by the Harley riders on this site towards the new Challenger. I sure hope once it is released and real testing begins, that it is warranted. I think it will be. I myself have a 14 Victory Cross Country that I love, but in a year or two would like to move on to something newer and the Indians are currently at the top of my list. If this new engine is what I think it is, it will definitely be an Indian. I remember back shortly after the rug was pulled on Victory, some executive at Polaris said if you are a fan of the Cross Bikes Indian will make you happy in the near future. I took this with a grain of salt, but it sure seem this is what they had in mind. And surely they have plans to put this motor on other platforms. I prefer the looks of batwing bike and would imagine a Chieftain option of sorts and others will also carry this engine. This past winter I took my Cross Country to a renowned Victory tuner in North Florida. For a little over 1500 dollars he got me a little over 30 more hp and more torque. I suspect Lloyd's in Charlotte, NC has already been working on new cams for the Power Plus, or shortly will be, and if the same ratio of hp can be achieved, we may be looking at 145+ crank hp for not a lot of money. Well one can hope. Also the water cooling should help with rear cylinder heat. I love the competition between Harley and Indian. It should make both brands better for the future.
I am shocked as well. I was expecting to get CRUSHED for wearing a Harley hat and Indian shirt at the same time. Seems people are more open minded to this than I anticipated.
Great and detailed video man, keep em coming!!
Thanks Saif!!! Appreciate it
I do like that Indian is challenging HD and other brands with all the new features. Indian with this new motor is going to take baggers to the next level.
Yeah I totally agree
This is going to push the MoCo, and I'm glad to see it. H-D has several new motors in the works, but they need to go into production on them. The Indian motor seems to be a larger version of the new H-D 1250, although the Indian version is single overhead cam and the H-D motor is DOHC. H-D also has a new 975 that they'll be putting in a frame later in 2020, which could be the successor (long overdue) for the Sportster. The third new H-D bike, that's been put off for a while, is the 1250 engine in a street cruiser called the "Custom". As Indian has shown, and other bikes have had for years, there is no need to have a1800cc engine to put out horsepower. Ducati got 200hp out of 1200 cc's long ago, The K1600 has 160 horsepower, and the R1250RT isn't far behind. Liquid cooling, DOHC, and the proper engine management system should produce a lot more ponies than the big twins from Indian or H-D have been kicking out. Look at the Scout that puts out 100 h.p. from 69 inches.
One thing that I'm really happy to see is the rear jug cut out. Car engines have had selective disablement for ages, and now we get it on a v-twin, so we don't have to roast our right thighs at every traffic light. About time! Going to be interesting to see all the other goodies when it's released.
I wonder if they'll also make this available in a cruiser chassis, to offset the new Softails. Guys (#blockhead) who bought a new Low Rider S are going to be in for a shock, if that happens.
100% I cant wait to see what Harley rolls out soon.
CADaddyDave eh the Milwaukee 8 is a great reliable motor parts are just expensive but I love my motor
I've been saying since the VRod that Harley would need to liquid cooled engine.
Yeah they should have put a version of the VRod power plant in the touring bikes years ago.
I live In Wyoming Minnesota where Polaris research and development is and they ride this bike right down Hwy 35 in the open
Very cool. Get some photos!
Awesome!! Do they let you get close to them?
That’s a nice bike, I just bought a Star Eluder in July but will be looking at this next week at my dealer! Damn!
How do you like the Star Eluder?
The new Victory looks nice. I can’t wait for my Dealer to get one. I hope it comes with nice colors.
HAHA. Yeah me too.
Где нибудь есть фото этого байка с демонтироваными боковыми кофрами?Что там с дизайном?
Я не видел ни одной фотографии. Как прошел мой русский?
@@GearsGadgets Нормально,через переводчик всё понятно👍У Харлей девидсона не заморачиваться на эту тему,а вот например Индиан Спрингфилд вроде можно сделать без кофров и будет хорошо выглядеть.
Nice video 👍👍. I never thought about the front fairing compared to the Yamaha. 🧐
Yeah it kind of changes the way I think about the bike completely.
I like it, that engine will be SUPER RELIABLE, and the ease of power and torque combined with the smoothness will make a fantastic tourer/cruiser, I ride a HD XR1200 and I am drooling over the new FTR1200S, I may make a switch to Indian in the future, they are on a good roll.
It will be interesting to see.
Great analysts....I'm very much looking forward to Indian elevating the bagger\tourer to the next level.
Thanks Pain!! Appreciate it.
My 2020 HD makes about 80 hp on a good day. It actually does fine, I haven't found myself needing any more yet, but that new Indian engine makes 122 hp. Most guys buying HDs are spending another $5k for 20 hp. Except for a few who really drink the Kool Aid, I'm afraid this one is the final nail in the coffin.
RIP Harley Davidson 1903-2020
I just hope I can get parts for mine for the next 10 yrs or so...
Yeah the parts and dealer network is a concern but if Indian knocks this one out of the park, the dealer network might be expanding a little more rapidly. This bike looks like a grand slam but we have to see how it rides.
@@GearsGadgets If it's made by Polaris, a great ride is a given. And that engine just changed the cruiser game completely.
Still want to know how much maintenance is involved though.
So glad to see Polaris CEO Scott Wine pulled his head out of his ass.
@@GearsGadgets Oh yeah, it's game over:
ridermagazine.com/2019/10/22/indian-unveils-liquid-cooled-powerplus-108-v-twin/
"The unit crankcase has a semi-dry oil sump that holds five quarts. To reduce maintenance and improve reliability, the overhead camshafts have hydraulic chain tensioners and the valves have hydraulic lash adjusters. The 6-speed constant mesh transmission has an overdrive top gear and a cable-actuated wet assist clutch."
Something I noticed: Did they find a way to light up the War Bonnet on the front fender again? They were always lit with the original skirted front wheel, but when they moved to the chopped front fender they did not light up. From pausing on your video it looks like the war bonnet lights up again on a chopped fender???
I didn't see it lit up but it is also daytime so not sure if maybe it turns on at night. We will see when it gets released.
2 throttle bodies and high compression is where you get the extra power from over an m8
Yeah.
And the inverted front end, radial brembo and the mono schock?? HD on this one is behind the game, thank good for the aftermarket!
Aggie Frazao my Harley has inverted forks and brembos and rear mono shocks I love it
WhIch Harley do you have with a mono schock?
Mono is 1 schock and schocks are 2!! You know this ?
Those pull back style bars are a classic Victory design.
Yeah. Indians have a more stretched look in general typically.
Yea, I like. Still love the Victory concepts. Knew the engine was for Victory but sales talk.I definitely would go the Challenger route.But man, wait till they offer stage kits and cams and dont forget when Lloyd dives inside that motor..Geezzz hold onto your seat.. It is going to be a beast of a bagger.. Definitely more bang for your buck..
Yeah that bagger is going to be insane in the aftermart build outs.
Lloyd is heavily rumored to have a couple of these engines already. You know he'll be first to aftermarket with upgrades. I'll wait until the first year bugs are ironed out before I get rid of my XCT.
Man, that's exactly what I was thinking...wonder what kind of ridiculous numbers Lloydz is going to get outta this thing...
@@PhilC64 lloyd owning an Indian dealership I'm sure helps too. He makes great stuff!
Great video. I've been thinking of a Raod glide. Now I have to wait and check the Challenger out and then wait to see if Harley is going to step their game up. Damn.... Lol
Yeah man I agree. Your move Harley-Davidson
Great video! I appreciate the follow up with clearer pictures and video. I gotta admit, it looks pretty good... I’m a Road Glide fan for sure but I’m going to have to see this one in person and take it down the road. I’m wondering if there will be a full bagger version released at the same time and would it also have a “Dark Horse” edition?
If so, I might be interested in the “Cycloptomaster Dark Horse” 🐎!!
HAHA they do have a Challenger Dark Horse but from what I see no Road Master version yet. I asked my local dealer if he saw any trunks for the Challenger and he said no but I am sure they will. I personally don't love the look of the Indian lowers and trunk currently but the rest of the styling is solid. Hope to see a new version of lowers and trunk design for this bike. Time will tell.
@@GearsGadgets Lowers should be built in/connected with the fairing, not two separate pieces. I miss that with the Road Glide Ultra/Limited too... My 2 cents
I put money that the tour trunk that fits the Chieftain/Roadmaster will fit on this. They would be stupid to design a different trunk for this one model when the trunk they have now can fit the quick disconnects on everything but the Scout and FTR. Even if they don't have a full dresser outta the box....it would be extremely easy to make your own with the parts they have available.
Just subscribed. Love the channel
Thanks!!! I appreciate it!!
I was always a fan of the Victory Vision with electric windshield and it's great fit for my 6'5" frame, currently own a 2019 FLHT, and will check out the new Challenger when it hits the local dealer. Thanks for the discussion.
100%. Would you take the wallet hit on the FLHT to go Challenger?
@@GearsGadgets Yep that's the big question. I like the weight of the FLHT but now like the RG Limited so will be interesting to see if there is Challenger version.
Good video i ride a harley but i think that the touring modelos on indian are getting better,, what do you think of the 120 R /or 120 st motor on the harley touring line up? Thank yoi
Thanks Victor!!
WOW! I was thinking of trading my Road King on an RG in another year or two but after seeing this I'm leaning toward the Indian Challenger. I've ridden my buddy's Chieftain and it outhandles my RK and any SG that I've ridden so I really thought about Indian but there was no fixed fairing model. This takes care of that issue. Great video and review! Love my Harleys but one should be able to get on a bike and ride without having to worry how far it is to the next dealer in the event of a breakdown. I think Polaris has proven that it has built reliable equipment not only with their brand named products but with Victory and Indian. I try to do as much work as I can on my bikes and after reviewing the engine design on Indian VS Harley I have to say I do believe the Indian has a superior, (more efficient) engine design. Not only that, Indian offers FOREVER WARRANTY, but that shows confidence in your product. I would love to see you and Adam Sandoval collaborate on this!
Thanks XD. I would absolutely hold off to see what the Challenger offers
Don't forget the Kawasaki Vaquero is also Roadglidesk...
True
@@GearsGadgets and liquid cooled! I think it makes about 120 lb/ft of torque as well
Kawasaki Vaquero? Did you say Roadglide ish? Lol noooooooo, not hardly, there's LEVELS to this game & the Vaquero didn't quite make the cut.
@@lavery0365 according to you. You not possibly say the Vaquero is not a roadglide clone.
@@donsvideos1985 Not at all, I rode the Vaquero and I own a 19 Roadglide Special and there's absolutely no comparison whatsoever between these 2 bikes, NIGHT & DAY, the Roadglide being far superior.
Thanks for sharing and thank you Greg
No problem and YES, thank you for Greg!!
That engine is essentially a Victory engine that they water cooled. Four valve overhead cams with hydraulic lifter. Pure Victory. With water cooling, you should be able to push that engine to 150 - 160 HP at the rear wheel and still have reliability.
I totally agree.
I know I'm late to this video... But didn't Harley already come out with a water cooled engine from the Rushmore project?
Twin cooled which is liquid cooling but only for the heads, not the entire motor so the cylinders are still air cooled while the heads get liquid cooling. It’s a bit of a hybrid but not actually a fully liquid cooled motor.
@@GearsGadgets they engine design failed correct? I don't recall seeing it on the 2021 hd line up
@@KindredGh0st it’s there still on the Ultras
The Swiss Auto division of Polaris built the racing engine for the Indian flat track racing platform. Is it possible they had a hand in the development of this engine?
Possibly but I do not know.
Road Glide to K1600b such a sick bike. Looking foreword to test the new Challenger.
Do you own the K1600B?
@@GearsGadgets Not yet. I was about to get a used one, but now the Challenger is about to come out, so I am going to wait.
Gears & Gadgets, thank you for giving an honest video about the Indian challenger. I have seen Adam Sandoval's video as well. I was looking at a Goldwing and the F6B version. But Honda made the trunk and bags to small. And honestly I would prefer and American made bike verses a metric. Although right now I own a metric because it is my first bike. But, I am looking for honest feedback about something other than HD. I like HD but, shirts and calendars are not what make a bike. I like the blur the lines idea and giving me another option to think about. All in all, great video. Thank you.
Thanks John, Honesty is the best policy.
Don’t know if it’s been mentioned, but you can’t forget about the Kawasaki Vaquero in regards to the fairing design too
Oh I didn't mention the Vaquero. I think it is a mix of them all and done pretty well if that was their intent.
Speaking as a current owner of a Road Glide, do you think that one does not burn the skin off your right leg(engine heat).
I am guessing being Liquid cooled will alleviate that kind of heat but we will see.
Interestingly, the H-D V-Rod and Indian Challenger engines are basically IDENTICAL platforms! Both are 60 degree liquid-cooled DOHC, 4 valve per cylinder V-twins with EFI and running belt final drive. The big difference is displacement: 69/76ci vs 108ci and V-Rod's ability to rev higher. So basically Polaris-Indian mimiced the H-D V-Rod but just made it larger and lower revving. Of course there are Japanese engines similar to this too.
I don't doubt HD is tapping the V-Rod R&D for their new platform coming soon.
@@GearsGadgets Yes, and maybe this time it will stick. Way back in the 1970s H-D built the similar Porsche derived 60 degree DOHC liquid cooled V2 & V4 NOVA engine but never produced it because the Evo engine turned out so well. Some said the V-Rod was merely a worked over NOVA engine. It will be interesting to see if the new liquid H-D is a similarly worked over V-Rod. New Harley/Indian war is cool stuff.
Not identical. The PowerPlus is SOHC, with roller followers and hydraulic lash adjustment. If it's mimicking anything, it's a 4.6 Ford.
@@sacrificialrook6283 I think you're right. I looked some more and the Challenger engine is called OHC -- not DOHC -- but only in one place. Other sites just say "camshafts." P-I is playing coy with the specs. Even so, Harley-Davidson already made an advanced liquid cooled V-twin but never made a bagger version out of it like this Challenger seems to be. Now they're caught with their pants down!
@@sacrificialrook6283 Actually, if Challenger is SOHC then it's more like the legendary 1915 Cyclone V-twin motorcycle built right there in Minnesota. A better name for it too. Wasn't the Challenger the space shuttle that blew up?
I think Indian is on point with this motor and motor technology along with the gear drive primary.
Yeah time will tell. I think they are on to something.
Here's some numbers: 3rd quarter U.S. sales; H-D -3.2%, Polaris -3% from last year and 2018 was a lack luster year. H-D projected to end 2019 at 214,000 units down from last years 231,000 units. But the most significant number is this year more people in the U.S. gave up their motorcycle license than applied for a license. Its great to see all these new models and innovation but are these manufacturers just missing the mark and fighting over a declining market share? Added to the new Challenger; BMW's R18, Triumph's Rocket III, plus the touring king Honda's Goldwing. Is H-D's "Many Roads" strategy just leading to a dead end.
I have this feeling that people just stopped caring about motorcycles because the entire market was just kind of stale. I think competition like this is exactly what the industry needs to get manufacturers pushing out NEW stuff, not just re-treads of the same bike that is 20 years old.
@@GearsGadgets Cycle World today named their top 10 of 2019 - Cruiser; Ducati XDiavel - "Culture and Italian beauty". Their comment, "weight", manufacturers need to design with power to weight ratio in mind first. Implied in their comments, American cruisers are fat, under powered, and don't handle well. Triumph, BMW, and KTM all did well placing multiple bikes. Also, Honda is teasing a baby Goldwing, light touring, using the new Africa Twin 1100 engine. Challenger moving in the right direction but still too heavy. H-D doesn't seem to get it, yet.
insurance and prices
Since the launch of restyled, mono-shock Softail models in 2018, I have been waiting for MoCo to launch mono-shock touring models with adjustable windshield, remote locking hard bags and TPMS. Most touring motorcycles from Indian, Honda and BMW offered these features for many years. Meanwhile, HD released the Boom Box GTS for MY2019 (which still requires upgrading to hear the music at 90mph). And RDRS with TPMS for MY2020 @ $1,000. I really cannot understand why Harley-Davidson motorcycle sales are plummeting? (sarcasm)
Believe it or not, I want to buy a Road Glide Special as soon as they are revised with the above features. How much longer do I have to wait HD?
Totally get it!!. Thats why at the end of my video I alluded to the fact that if I was in the market with everything going on right now and REALLY loved Harley so much that I couldn't buy an Indian, I dont know if I could buy a current Harley KNOWING they MUST be changing soon, they HAVE to right?
As much as I love HD, I am not brand loyal. I will buy a bike that suits me the most. I prefer feet forward riding position. That narrows my touring bike options significantly. Everything your said in your video resonated with me. You were talking about people like me. I have saved up and able to buy a bike right now, but I will not buy a bike that has not changed much in a decade. Even with a new M8 engine (which I love riding). Especially since some folks are suffering from transmission fluid migrating to the engine OR engine oil sumping OR both. The M8 is in its 4th year of production with 3 revisions of oil pump and still have issues.
The last time Harley released a new engine (Twin Cam), it had a bucket load of issues too for several years. However, the difference is the Internet. Thanks to TH-cam channels like your’s and various motorcycle forums, potential motorcycle buyers research their bikes before walking into the dealership. Bad reviews in 2019 hurts the brand 10 times more than back in 1998.
Add to that, only American touring motorcycles need stage upgrades for their engines to unlock the full potential for thousands of dollars. Even the stereo has stage 1 and 2 upgrades. And after spending $5K on pipes, air cleaner and stage 3 big bore kit, due to the mass, factory-stock Honda and BMW out perform us all day long. What would it really cost for Harley and Indian to offer Stage 3 Big Bore engine as the factory engine? Not much. Wait a minute, Indian did that in MY2020. 🤔
Harley updates their products so slowly, it is just too painful to watch sometimes. The competition is way ahead! Catch-up, if you don't want to lose any more of your market share.
Thx for the great video. You’re right, people are not as brand loyal as past years. I just replaced my Harley bagger with a new Goldwing. Harley just wasn’t offering enough upgrades.
Thanks Matrix!! Its true!!
So ... is it going to be "shirts off" to your next Harley video? ~shudder~
Possibly. Stay tuned.
I ride an '18 RG. Im 6'2" and have 17" Todd bars. This Challenger looks like the tank is longer, or you are sitting farther back to me. Those stock bars are coming more toward the rider than up. Im curious what shoulder level bars would look like on this bike. Personally, i would have got an Indian if there was a local dealer. Now a fixed fairing bike and the new powerplant, its more than a Contender. Good video. Thanks for the peek.
Thanks for the kind words Joshua. I am very excited to see this bike in person and take it for a ride.
I really hope that they do a non-fairing version of this bike. Also I actually love the look of the radiator (I have since the Scout). It's sort of looks like a fighter jet intake to me.
I think they will build off that platform for sure especially if it is wildly successful. I think Indian has a pretty clear road map planned. The Cheiftain and Scout were the first steps, the Challenger the next, im sure more is coming.
This bike is definitely gonna start at more than $30K
I am guessing $32,999 but with a ton of standard options that won't make it so difficult to swallow. That is my prediction.
@@GearsGadgets ain't no way I'm gonna pay anything close to that amount of money for a motorcycle. 20 is my max
Probably more like $40k
I think $30 to $32k. HD is charging $1500 for a black engine on touring bikes. Indian does not on their Dark Horse models. It will be less $ than their Elite models. I've heard there is 3 sub models of the Challenger. Some type of standard, dark horse & limited.
They use victory vision visas Bar
True
I'm a Harley guy through and through but this has me thinking...especially if that HP is as advertised, wow.
Yeah I think it will have a lot of people looking.
Why didn't Indian go with the Roadmaster bags instead of the HD bags?
Interesting question and observation. Going for a specific style
Best video about this!!
Thanks Rodrigo. I appreciate it!
Long time roadglide rider and this will be my next one as long as the engine proves to be reliable give it a year and time to trade my old faithful 2005
Interesting. let me know if you pull the trigger.
I currently own a road king. 6'2" and was planning on a Road Glide being my next bike. Im definitely going to test ride this. Ive been pretty solidly a Harley guy for a while but if the Challenger is better than the Road King then I'll get it. Really just that simple. I work hard for my money. Im not going to buy the lesser of the two bikes just for brand loyalty. HD needs to step up their game if they want to earn my money. Not step up the peer pressure.
Yeah I understand. I wouldn't buy one without riding the other.
Great info video👍🇺🇸🇺🇸😎
Thanks James!!!
Great video man, glad to see some clear photos. I think it looks good
Thanks Mick!!
Gears & Gadgets actually kind of excited, I might have to ride it
Great video! Details!
Thanks Jim!!
I see inverted forks too, I wonder if this is intended to be a sport bagger, they also look a tad smaller than a RG. I also wonder how expensive this will be, I suspect it will be more expensive than the Chieftain.
Yeah I missed the inverted forks. I am very excited to see what they come out with on Tuesday.
I mean, has the road glide been updated since 1988?
My statement above is with no known facts about the road glide other than it still looks the same since the day it was born.
Yes... Road Glide got a new frame in 2014, new fairing rework in 2015, and the M8 engine in 2017.
The rushmore changes in 2014 even by Harley's own admission were "Neither trendy nor trying to make a fashion statement". Basically the look of the Road Glide has stayed pretty much the same for well... ever. Non-motorcycle riders would have a hard time differentiating a mint condition 2007 Road Glide from a 2020 Road Glide. Matter of fact, a beat up 2020 Road Glide vs a Mint 2007 Road Glide would probably trick most non-riders. You couldnt say the same for 99% of any other automotive / motorcycle design except for a Toyota Tacoma maybe.
Gears & Gadgets 💯 exactly.
The Indian motor alone is reason to consider it. I love the styling of the HD, but I can't justify buying an air cooled motor, unless it were half the price of the competition.
Yeah I get it. Riding my Harley around Arizona I have thought the same thing.
Harley is likely gonna keep beating the same dead horse and come up short, I just can't see them doing something revolutionary. I am hopeful they surprise me, but their company culture is evolution not revolution.
I agree, I wish they would just swing for the fences with an all new touring bike that keeps a lot of styling cues but is just completely revolutionary. Find a way to make an Ultra Limited weigh 750 lbs with lightweight materials or something crazy. Harley could be SO much more with their name. The Livewire brings me hope that they are willing to buck the trend of their normal.
C'mon guys, H-D already tried this stuff with the V--Rod engine and it didn't sell. What Harley Didn't do was make a V-Rod bagger as some of us suggested.
@@herbwag6456 I dont see the compaison between the Challenger and the V-Rod other than a liquid cooled motor. Indian is going more toward comfortable touring bike on this one and i think its going to be a home run.
@@GearsGadgets Goes WAY beyond that. Both V-Rod and Challenger engines are basically IDENTICAL platforms! Both are 60 degree DOHC 4 valve per cylinder V-twins with EFI and running belt final drive. The big difference is displacement: 69/76ci vs 108ci and V-Rods ability to rev higher. So basically Indian DID copy H-D but just made it larger and lower revving.
As HD and Indian compete, be sure to wait a couple of model years for the manufacturers to work out the bugs. Yep, I’m a Harley guy but competition helps us mere “end consumers” in the long term.
Liquid cooling and 60 degree motor sounds similar to the Scout and that is a derivative of the Vrod motor, which I loved. The new motor HD is working with on the Pan American, Street Fighter and Custom looks to be the direct competition to the Indian plus motor. This should be an interesting year coming up, love my M8 Fat Bob but my 1st HD was a Vrod and I loved that motor back in the day. Always wondered why HD didn't do do more with that motor back then. New sub brother stay safe and ride hard or stay home😎
Thanks FatBob Jim, I HOPE this accelerates the Motor Company's R&D team and really lights a fire under their simmering ass. I feel Harley's incremental changes to a proven platform are what is starting to make the brand stale. I think they need to come out swinging with an all new touring bike that does some incredibly new and forward thinking things in the world of baggers. Problem is, Harley should be setting the bar and for years they have just been raising it an inch at a time. Meanwhile Indian just came in and looks like they raised the bar a foot and crushed it.
@@GearsGadgets When the Vrod was discontinued, I was told by someone in the know that the Vrod drivetrain would live on in some form. I guess that's what we are seeing in the prototypes that FatBob Jim listed. I think it's shortsighted to say that the motor company is resting on its laurels when you have these models on the horizon, not to mention the recent development of the M8 and the Livewire.
Right now touring sales are down for both Indian and HD. People are looking for lighter, more "urban" bikes. That's why Indian is really pushing the Scout lineup and why HD is going in the direction they are with the prototypes. That's why I'm a little confused why they introduced this model. Maybe it will give the touring segment a shot in the arm.. We'll see.
Ola Stenegard is proving to be a very good hiring as Director of Product Design for Indian.
I agree
Looks like John Burns when you pause to show the blinker.
Possibly, we will see when the content comes out next week lol.
The only thing common with the HD RoadGlide is the fixed fairway, for the rest the modernity is in the PowerPlus 108.
I agree.
“Road Glide to Gold Wing”....good take. My 06 RG I could not fix the hideous wind buffeting with anything and I hear of the same issues now with the new models.. All that fairing and no clean wind, or minimal wind. On an R1200GSA and that little w/shield does a way better job of wind protection. If the new Indian can be what the H-D ought to be, I might be seriously interested. I’m not at all Gold Wing, hence this new bike.
Interesting. I definitely see the RG to Gold Wing journey as a little bit of one of a happy journey but one of defeat for HD guys none the less. I think Indian might have an interception planned here as well.
Gears & Gadgets one of defeat might be a stretch. I would get to an R1200RT before Gold Wing. Many would as well. I discovered I truly wasn’t a bagger guy after owning an 06 RG. The non bagger Harley all day, love em and I’m seriously considering the Low Rider S. Distance riding I’ll take the BMW all day, wether GS or RT.
I have a 2010 victory cross country with 89k miles on it. From what I've seen and read so far, I would trade it in for a challenger. The 2020 ruby smoke is a gorgeous color with the black accents of the darkhorse. Sell that in the challenger, under $30k and I'm in.
We will have to see how it handles. That red is really sharp looking.
Wish the bag lines ran parallel with the pipes, they kinda look like parts bin add ones with no thought.
I thought so at first too but I think they just wanted to do something different. Its like a reverse stretched bag almost.
I want one. Was considering the roadmaster dark horse but now I'm gonna wait it out.
Yeah I would understand waiting for more info and ride impressions. Price is the next sticking point.
I sat on a new one Sunday.....very very nice
Jonathan Tyree where did you find one?!?!?
@@GearsGadgets polaris indian in Walton ky..they had the white black and that new matte red all lined up..
I was excited about the RM Dark Horse too. I have a Victory Octane so will wait and see if this 108 preforms as well but with more torque and HP
Seems Polaris just cannot design anything without using a Harley as their starting point. If you want a Harley Davidson, then go out and buy one. Polaris has a history of letting their customers down, just ask those with Victory's or Slingshots how Polaris has treated them, lol
For me, I will stick with what works and that's Harley Davidson, Period.
I hope Harley-Davidson stays true to what built them, no need to compete with Polaris on any liquid cooled engine. that's what I Love about my Harleys is that engine and the sound it delivers, nothing beats it.
Everyone takes cues from the other, Harley took the vent on the front of the fairing and nobody in the Harley world complained about Harley stealing that idea. There are only so many different things you can do with a motorcycle, look at sport bikes for christ sake. I couldn't tell you one sport bike manufacturer from another. The difference really comes into standard features and power plants. With this offering it looks like Indian is CRUSHING the competition in power plants so.... Your move Harley-Davidson!!. Oh, also another thought, when Harley switches to 100% liquid cooled and standard LED's all around, will you accuse them of copying Indian? I hope so otherwise that would make you hypocritical.
@@GearsGadgets Perfect response. I've owned both Indian and Harley. Currently back with Harley. I am a Harley Guy. With that said, on the touring chassis bikes, the Indians handle so much better. The suspension is miles ahead. I recently traded in my Street Glide for the new Softail Sport Glide. Power to weight/Suspension and Handling are superior on the Sport Glide or any of the new softail bikes. The Challenger will hopefully create some excitement in the bagger/touring segment. Wake the MOCO up. They really need to change their touring chassis. Also the lack of complete LED lighting is irresponsible. I'll repeat I'm a Harley Guy, however Indian is coming. Harley needs to step-up. I for one am very excited about the Challenger. There is a very good chance that one of these will follow me home within the next year. Take care.
Richard Watson Jr. Great reply when you have nothing to add, lol
Competition is good sure, but when it’s so obvious your targeting a specific bike because you cannot design anything yourself then I guess it is what it is. My experience with Polaris and how they run their brands has not been very good. They change like the wind and for me and my wallet, I’m not going to risk it on a product that may not be around or at least have the dealer and parts inventory support that I know Harley has.
If you need any examples ask those who bought Victory or Slingshots and how they are being left out in the dark by Polaris now that they seem to be spending most of their current attention at the moment on Indian. After coming home from Sturgis, it was obvious they are spending money on advertising out there, but our friends who are sling shot owners had no demo rides whatsoever there.
It’s your wallet, spend where you want, but being a owner of two Harley’s, I’m great full for their dealer network and the ease of parts and accessories for many years. Cannot say the same for Indian.
So how much does it cost. Most likely another 30K mortgage needed to buy. Out of my price range. Can get huge discounts on a Star Eluder. It would be tough to overpay. We will see once they are in the dealers
I'm thinking it is going to be $32,000. This might help the Star Eluder actually.
@@GearsGadgets these prices is why I currently own a 2017 Kawasaki Voyager. Turns fine and put 20K miles on it and like it. The money saved goes into using the bike on long trips.
Will definitely help the Eluder. I see brand new Eluders selling for 16,000. That is definitely enticing, as opposed to 30k+ for the Indian. Also hope fit and finish is better on this Indian luxury bike, as opposed to their other offerings.
You had me at 120HP. Now pricing? I hope it's under $30K. 🙏
I feel it might push up to $32,000 but if it is loaded to the gills with options it might actually be worth it. We will see next week.
Indian dealership called left me a message. $500 deposit if buying, starting a waiting list. Only getting a few challengers per dealership. But didn't say how much $$$$$ for one.
$30K price range will make the Goldwings look better.
@@Donfleebie1 Salesman said Tuesday October 29th pricing should be available. I'm guessing $36K.
harley crasher im sure it’s around the price of a standard rg
Great job on show in the new challenger.
I hear you're a softail man. It looks like it's a reach for the Handle bars. Looking at the video the rider's arms look like they're extended out so it looks like about the same reaches the rogue Glide. I'm not will impress with the numbers Ali Davis and has been making those numbers for quite some time with a little bit of change.
And yes I agree with you the Softail Is an awesome bike you can do a lot with it. The beautiful thing about them is that they're sore rebuild obal.
Remember indeed is not like that yet.
I'm just talking at someone who spends a lot of time on the road. I wanna rogue Glide CVO, And a Softail. Looks like a nice bike.
Torque rules over horsepower in the way most people perceive “power”. (Fast hard pull and acceleration under load). The numbers between RG and Challenger aren’t significant enough for average Joe Schmoe to detect. Unless they release a true touring version with large capacity trunk, they’ll be lagging all the competitors. I predict there’ll be several new model issues to iron out over the first two production years. 2022 models will be the first year where you won’t be bit by unwelcome surprises.
I am a softail man, I love my 2018 Heritage but this Challenger looks pretty promising. Thanks for watching!!
Indian will take away from HD but not from the Goldwing. GW riders dont want V twins. They want the smoothness of the 6's. The biggest gripe about the new wings is the loss in baggage capacity. That may sway some more than any other part of the bike.
Im not too sure about that. I think the Gold Wing takes some guys away from HD simply for refinement but those guys probably would prefer to spend money with an american company but only spent money with Honda because they had no other choice. Indian might be finding that wedge.
Great video ride a 2019 ultra limited but this bike could make me jump in a couple years
Thanks Jason. Yeah it will be interesting to see how the reviews come in.
Do you think this new engine, being water cooled and OHC, will be too refined and lose the soul we love with a big pushrod vtwin? The goldwing has lots of performance, power, etc.. but to me, its too refined. I want that soul of a big v-twin. Hope this bike still has it cause the specs make it look like a performance oriented road glide. Brembos, inverted forks, one piece crankshaft, mono shock rear, gear drive primary......
I think the Challenger will be the best shot at keeping the American V-Twin but making it modern. If the performance gains are there (seems they are) I think a LOT of people will sacrifice some soul for power. Just my thought.
MrAudio77 if you want soul, ride an evo. If you want character, ride a shovel. Harley m8 motors don’t have soul. Like you said they are too refined for what they are, minus the hp lol
@@John_shepard Disagree. What sets HD apart in my opinion is the SOUL. IMHO the M8 is just fine. Love the Look/Character/Soul of the new M8 power plant.
BCB SILVER HAWK they feel like metrics at idle, even the starter sound annoys me. It’s not same shaky feeling I grew up on 🤷🏾♂️ thats what set Harley last apart was the fact that you actually feel/ see a big dumb tractor motor shaking beneath you. All personal opinions ride safe!
@@John_shepard Thanks for the comment. While I do agree the new, M8 is definitely more refined than the older power plants, especially in stock form, with new exhaust and air cleaner they do come alive. For me they still have the Harley soul that other manufacturers have not been able to duplicate. Hard to explain. My personal opinion. Take care.
The Chieftan is a Street Glide copy. The Challenger is a Road Glide copy. Polaris/Indian would die, again, if they didn't go to Harley styling. Let me know when someone puts that 108 on a Dyno and tell me what the HP really is.
That is the attitude that will put Harley-Davidson under. Keep laughing at the competition. Harley 114 puts out 90 HP on the Dyno. If the PowerPlus drops from 122 to 108 on the dyno that is still 18 HP over Harley. A fully liquid cooled V-Twin that pumps out 108 HP (I will give it to you) is Hardly a copy. This Harley superiority complex is like the hot chick who lives in a small town who calls the new hot chick an ugly slut. Eventually everyone catches on and she just becomes old fodder and every start chasing the new girl. Time to stop dismissing the competition and time to start trying some things.
Gears & Gadgets I like the styling of my road glide and the aftermarket part support but I can admit Indian is putting out some awesome bikes. They offer a ton of standard features including the different ride modes which I think is cool. I personally want to see the company be successful. I didn’t buy the chieftain because it just didn’t have that low end torque I was looking for and there was a slight delay on the throttle response. The dealership support is not there yet and theirs always the fear that they may go out of business. I’m sure this bike is going to handle well because of the inverted front end. Unfortunately Harley tend to wobble and it’s due to the horrible suspension and rubber isolators. I had to spend 2700 buck on Ohlins suspension to get the bike to handle like a premium bike should. Thanks for the video. Although I’m not buying a new bike no time soon. I do plan to test ride the challenger when it comes out
When it comes down to it for aerodynamics there is only so many ways you can make a fairing. Victory actually had the fairing vent on their bikes prior to the 2014 HD. In every video no matter who test rides the Indian it is lighter off the kick stand than HD and the perfect height wimdshield on an HD always a few to get it right. This is just ones observation who been riding Road Glides since 09.
I’m excited about the bike not because I would get one but I think this is a jumping off point for future bikes with this motor. As for the bike itself, fixed fairing isn’t my thing. I’d like to have seen another headlight in the fairing, to me it doesn’t look proportional. Excellent video thanks for sharing it.
Thanks FNG. Appreciate it. I am excited because I think this is a shot fired at the rest of the industry too and ALL of us consumers are going to get a better product from ALL brands for the competition. Its a good thing. Again, hats off to Indian. Thanks for watching!
Harley Street glide CVO has locking bags standard. Push button on cluster and/or on key fob will lock or unlock bags. Love this video thanks 🙏🏻
That's alot of money to get power locks and still not have a power windshield.
True, but the Chieftain offers those features standard and don't require you to spend $45,000 to get them standard. It will be very interesting to see where the pricing comes in on this Challenger.
There’s not one manufacturer who aims @ the Honda Goldwing. At least not that I’ve seen. I have a 2019 RGS & my wife has a 2020 RGS. But I must say, the Goldwing is the KING OF THE MOUNTAIN 🤴🏿. But that’s just my OPINION.
I think this Challenger MIGHT be aimed at everyone including the Gold Wing. We will have to see.
BMW K1600B definitely went after the Gold Wing. I love the technology of both those bikes, but I can’t get past the styling. So I bought a Chieftain. I have a strong feeling this will be my next bike in a couple years. Great styling, with new tech, that’s a winner in my book. Can’t wait to test ride one.
Tony D'Angelo I hear you. I just had a bad experience with Indian. They’re nice bike until you have a problem. Then you’re on your own. You’ll receive absolutely no help at all. Hopefully you’ll never find out.
What helmet is that on the desk behind you
Shoei RF-SR
I'm ready for one. Bring it baby
Trade in that FXDR haha.