Use my code CASUALLY10 and link: bit.ly/casuallycomicsBKFeb22 to get 10% off (save up to $47!) your own authentic Japanese subscription from Bokksu! Don't miss out on this amazing snack-journey through Japan!
Static Shock, Zeta, and Batman Beyond all playing on Saturdays. What a good time that was. Jackie Chan Adventures and Xiao Lin Showdown too. Good times.
I appreciate this aging of Batman so much. I was late to the Beyond game, but when I watched it I was blown away. I like this Bruce so much better than Miller's in Dark Knight. I appreciate his limitations instead of just building around them. He feels like a more realized character, and explores themes with Batman that hadn't at that point been explored. What DOES happen when Batman can't do it anymore? Great video.
I never liked old Bruce in millers dark knight either. The power armor was just too much of a loop hole to have an old beat up Bruce who could still kick ass. Batman beyond worked because age really did slow him down. Another good old Bruce was in justice league kingdom come. His body was so messed up he needed a high tech exoskeleton just to function. The actual protecting of Gotham was left up to a fleet of robots, and once he opened that Pandora’s box it was only a matter of time till he turned Gotham into a police state.
Mantle passings, like Wally West becoming the Flash and Terry McGinnis becoming the new Batman worked (for me at least) because they worked for it. Wally had been around for a long time as Barry's sidekick, it made sense that he'd step up into the role, and he lived in Barry's shadow for a long time. Batman Beyond took the time to contextualize the change, Bruce was still around as Terry's mentor and Man-In-The-Chair, and it just felt organic. Jaime Reyes, conversely, had no connection to Ted Kord who had just been murdered in the same mess of a story arc and there was a lot of resistance. Its a testament to the writers making him so likeable and Didio's persistence in keeping Jaime out there for so long the he's basically 'made it' as the Blue Beetle.
Barry's my Flash (where's Wally now?), Bruce is my Batman (Beyond's future seems very unlikely), and Ted Kord will always be my Blue Beetle (waiting for the Reach's Order 66 subcoding to kick in, where Jaime turns all Hal Jordan/Parallax n becomes a villain, starts dating a dude, then simply vanishes from existence and no one remembers him...ouch )
That’s why a lot of these new “legacy” characters aren’t working. Jace Fox as Batman doesn’t hit the way a former Robin becoming Batman would, or Terry, for that matter. And they made such a big deal about him being a black Batman, and especially when they started teasing the character and the rumors that it would be the son of Lucius Fox were swirling, I thought for sure it would be Luke Fox, the only son I had ever known or heard of that Lucius had, not to mention, he was already a member of the Batfamily, a ex-Marine who was extremely intelligent and good with technology. While my exposure to him was minimal, mainly being from the animated movie, Batman: Bad Blood, and I looked forward to seeing more from the character. I mean, it made sense for him to be a Batman, but his own version that I would have thought would be even more reliant on technology than Bruce is. He would basically be a true amalgamation of Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne, using his Batwing suit as his Batman suit, but maybe even further upgraded to be a proto-Batman Beyond suit. And instead, Jace Fox shows up. You can imagine my disappointment. Luke could have had so much potential, maybe even forming a kind of tech trifecta with Barbara and Tim, working together to outthink their problems and villains, and maybe over time Luke could become less reliant on tech, maybe by being stuck in a situation where he couldn’t, like an EMP going off, where he then has to focus on training he had gotten from Bruce and other Batfamily members. But Jace was a let down. As has Jonathan. He is the literal son of Superman, and they took this cute kid that everyone had loved for years, especially with his interactions with his best friend, Damian Wayne, and aged him up in a whole bunch of time that we don’t really get to see, sent him to the future, brought him back, and now all of a sudden he is taking Clark’s place as a… what is he, like 17? Maybe 18 year old. DC was known for their legacy characters. It’s something they did way more before Marvel ever did. Batman had Robin. Superman had Supergirl. Wonder Woman had Wonder Girl. But somehow in these recent times, they forget or purposefully ignore these classic legacy characters for no reason. While Yara Flor is cool, has a good design and could have been a good Wonder Woman, I would much rather have seen Donna or Cassie be utilized. But for the most part, those other legacy characters get thrown under the bus in the name of diversity and a massive influx of new characters that rarely gain any traction, because these new writers and editors do not know their true audience anymore and instead rely on what people on Twitter say. It is sad to watch a universe I love so much, die slowly, from the inside out.
this is why I don't like jon being superman and think that conner should be instead. Jon never really worked for the title, he jsut got it by default cause clark was a away and they wanted to push jon. Conner meanwhile has proven time and time again that he deserves the superman title, and has been building up to it ever since he was first created. I really hope dc makes him the new superman and de-ages jon.
Wow, what a unique deep dive for you. You explained why this worked, when easily this shouldn't have, and how out of the gate this became a successful legacy character. One thing that I get sad about (only because it wasn't made yet), but Batman Beyond is so sad when the height of the universe with JLU, had so many heroes... And now, they're hardly there, or long gone. There's probably a message that all good things don't last in the end or something.
One thing I am surprised wasn't mentioned: The main audience was the perfect age. The TAS main demographic had aged to where this was edgy enough to be accepted. BB's main demographic was just the right age to really enjoy the more silly parts, whilst feeling that the darker moments were glimpses into a more adult world, somethin they werent supposed to see but wanted to (ya know, like with TAS). And later this age range had the ability to go back and 'discover' TAS, something that really adds to the weight of this series. Ask anyone who grew up on Star Trek TNG and then went back and found TOS. Or went from DS9 to TNG. Add to that the flawless and extremely adaptable character design and you have one hell of a nostalgia bomb that can get lit and go off several times over.
Bruces life in Batman Beyond always felt like the natural conclussion of what we began to see during the new adventures series. He had grown more and more obsessed in a way, and started to treat the people around him less like people or family, and more like footsoldiers, plus he became way more brutal then he ever was. You can see this immediatly in the episode in which he recruited Tim Drake or in the one were we got to see Dick quit being Robin. There was also another movie planed for Batman Beyond which would've taken place a year after the return of the Joker which, apperently, was ment to show how the DCAU-Batfamily broke apart. Some ideas from this draft were apperently used in the infamous comic version, but the generall idea stayed the same. Barbara was supposed to quit being Batgirl after everything that happened to Tim (which also included ending the relationship with Bruce), and Dick would've broken off from Bruce after he had found out that his adoptive father was in a relationship with his girlfriend. the later was also part of the reason Dick never appeared in Beyond. Warner didn't want this weird love triangle shown in the TV-series, hence why Bruces and Barbaras relationship was never directly addressed (The most we got was her telling Terry once about it, and even then it was not directly spoken out.)
@@Xehanort10 just because I like Batman beyond my head cannon is that Barbara was like 25+ when she started dating batman and the family dynamic was already kinda thrown to begin with. But yea Bruce still looks super creepy either way. It's also one of the larger problems with beyond is Barbara where she is there but her age sometimes feels in flux like they don't know how old she is supposed to be.
@@Xehanort10 I feel like everyone hates his obsession with that concept. I certainly do. Thank goodness that idea never managed to make the jump into the actual comics, sans the BTAS and Batman Beyond comics. And yet, despite knowing that literally no one else was on board with the idea of Bruce and Barbara as a couple, he doubled down on it in the animated movie for the Killing Joke. Kevin Conroy even tried to warn him it was a bad idea and that the fans would hate it, but nope he went full steam ahead.
@@wise_girl9388 I felt sorry for Conroy and Hamill when they did the animated Killing Joke. They'd wanted to voice Batman and Joker in an adaptation of it for years. Instead they got a fanfic with Killing Joke tacked on.
This is going into depth about story telling reasons why this show is good, but if I’m being honest I love it for no serious reason. I just love Terry, his interactions with Wayne, the implication that in the future everyone is goth, I just think it’s fun. That’s the main reason why it will always be one of my favorite shows
I like your low key Nora Fries cosplay. What I like about Terry McGinnis is he felt like a perfect mix of Spider-Man and Batman. He had Peter’s cockiness, one of a happy life, and down to earth problems. But also Bruce’s temper, reserved emotions, and loner persona. It resulted in a character that felt familiar but also fresh, which is a great combination for a legacy character.
So many episodes of BB really stuck with me due to their darkness such as Inque tricking a guy into becoming a blob monster or the Dad whose skeleton and consciousness get fused into the Earth, etc. Also, the pure gold that is "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?"
I have always liked how the animated series Batman Beyond handled the transition, I was not happy with the Terry is sorta Bruce's son. I do like the idea of Waller trying to create a new Batman, one she could control and failing in that matter.
I HATED the idea when I heard about it. But then I saw "Epilogue" for myself (which contains the best anti-edgelord moment for Batman Classic EVER in the death of Ace) and the execution of it just won me over. It HAD been part of a master plan but the plan went off the rails at the critical juncture (though seriously, what in the hell was Waller thinking about hiring Bruce's ex-fiancee to do THAT job?)
She wasn't trying to make a controllable Batman. That truly was altruism with her psychopathy. But I too hated it and it's so unnecessary. And diminishes what started the series, the death of Terry's actual dad.
In my mind, the most important thing in creating Legacy Characters is honoring the legacy (not just with the character, but also in the story, universe, and lore). Everything else (crafting the “world” the they inhabits, how they interact with other characters, their personalities, etc.) is important too, but they’re important for creating any good Characters. If the character doesn’t have respect for the legacy they inherited, you don’t have a Legacy Character but a Chaser, a character created for the purpose of the chasing after the fame and recognition of their predecessors while ignoring everything that made them popular in the first place.
The issue is a lot simpler..it doesn't make sense to legacy a person that is still active. And there will always be a grudge when it seems artificial. Edit: by that I mean killing someone just to replace them(or other forms of sidelining). It's why the JSA works. Most of the heroes are long retired or long dead. And their deaths had nothing to do with setting up a new hero.
Even though Bruce tanks most of his relationships with the rest of the batfamily by the time of Beyond, which is sad, there's a bit of solace in the finale to JL where Terry, who by this point is an adult and you can assume has grown into his own batman, and doesn't need Bruce's help anymore, chooses to still stay with Bruce and take care of him this time around as Bruce is approaching the end of his life. Also Bruce acting like a naggy, old grandpa in that scene is pretty funny.
The Batman Beyond animated series was such a banger back in the day. Things def got weird in the end of the JL animated series when they did the whole DNA modification between Bruce and Terry. I haven't read much of the Batman Beyond comics so this video is extremely helpful!
Yeah that story line never sat well with me. It felt very forced. Like, "NO NO, not just ANYONE can be Batman, you must essentially BE Bruce Wayne, because *Science Reasons* !" The main BB series was great though.
That all went completely past me at first. Then later I went back amd wanted to explore this version of Batman some more and off course quickly found that tidbit. It immediately set me of pursuing any continuation of this character. It feels like such an... Executive meddling decision that I immediately went 'Well. They fucked it then.' Didn't change a thing about how I view the main series of BB though. Rewatched it a while back (late 30's) and still think it holds up.
@@thebandwagonfanpodcast you should, it's worth the watch. Be prepared for something that is in a weird way a perfect distillation of 90's (kids animation) and yet is equally timeless.
Batman Beyond is so good especially when you learn all the corporate meddling behind the scenes. It feels like something that was destined to be shunned by fans and try to be buried by creators but it ended up working
Tbh, they were blessed by luck too. Buffy premiered two years before Batman Beyond and gave them a framework to work in. You can absolutely see how Terry is very much inspired by Buffy Summers, and Old Bruce has a lot of Giles to him.
Batman the Animated series, Mask of the Phantasm and Batman Forever are so amazing because it really felt like the writers, artists, everyone involved were very knowledgeable in the Batman lore and quite comfortable in writing stories that were new and exciting while maintaining the original archetype respectfully well in mind, that is a rare thing :P
I still remember the day I finally saw my first full BTAS episode, "The Cat And The Claw Part I". My grandmother, practically my second mother, had just died and I was lost in a fog, just watching her old TV for some relief. Then I saw...this show, so much more together and grown up than the Sunday morning cartoons I'd watch on this TV. Didn't make the pain but it punched through the fog. Never forgot that.
One of the reasons I like comic tv adaptations over the comic universe is that they have a beginning and an end and that things are allowed to change so I really like legacy characters like Terry. Batman Beyond is fantastic.
I was just thinking today how Terry becoming Batman was such a great passing of the torch and, voilà, your video showed up in my feed! You touch on all the points of why this works as opposed to other, particularly more recent, cases. For my part, I think it was easier to accept Batman Beyond as a natural continuation of BTAS that took place in the distant future of Gotham, and watching that mentor/student dynamic between an aged Bruce and the young and brash Terry, a dynamic that also resembles a father/son relationship. That first episode does a solid job establishing why Bruce eventually (he was still Batman even in his old age!) gave up the cape and cowl. He doesn't immediately accept Terry, they have their different ways to tackle certain issues, but they learn off each other and, shockingly, Terry is allowed to fail, pick himself back up, and grow into the mantle of Batman. It's ironic that Terry, the guy who literally steals the batsuit, does more to earn this mantle than those brand new "chosen ones" who need to be validated by their predecessors at every turn.
I'm reminded of Hawkeye passing his mantle on to Kate Bishop, because that worked rather well as well. She wasn't just a substitute for when he was dead - once he came back, having her keep the mantle felt good. And that was because Clint had *changed.* He was running around as a ninja, being all dark and gruesome. His death and experiences had led him to changing as a character, and that left a hole in the narrative for someone else to fill. By the time he came back, Kate had succeeded in the Hawkeye mantle so well that they did something then unheard of - they shared it. It's remarkably similar, because Terry and Bruce, while not Batman at the same time chronologically, were still sharing the Batman title for the audience. But character growth is good, and fans like it. I think the key to having legacy characters work is to have the originals change and grow, because then it doesn't look like they're taking anything away, rather the characters we love are exploring new frontiers. (I think Spider-Man might be another good example. We're used to Peter as a put-upon teen, but he's a put-upon adult now. Having young blood come in feels natural, which is why Miles has succeeded so well, and why Miles' movie was so beloved.)
Kate didn't succeed or fail. And Miles was in a different universe. Spider-women have shared the title too. In both cases, it didn't really pass. Because there wasn't a good reason for it when miles is in a universe with an alive spider-man. He'd be better off trying to gain his own identity which they did try and failed. The movie also took place in a universe where Pete was dead. I don't see the point in redundant names. Seems to just be leftovers from needless attempts.
My personal favorite legacy hand-off was at the end of the Starman series, when Jack decides to raise his infant far from the madness that took so much from him and his family and formally passes the cosmic rod and the Star* title to Courtney. I always liked Courtney and she took the titles seriously in JSA where she was featured.
Great dive on BB. Always felt that this mantle passing was one of the best. Similar to Batman but not exactly the same, which also applies to his rogue's gallery. And we also had Bruce to help lead/mold Terry, so have our cake and eat it too. 100% agree that they missed the mark on Max.
I enjoyed Terry in Batman Beyond although Bruce will always be the true Batman for me. It felt like Bruce was actually more in an Alfred role to Terry, rather than in a traditional Batman and Robin role.
I love Batman Beyond so much, it made me giddy to see this video title! In my mind: Terry is the only person to take the mantle in the absence of Bruce that genuinely felt like Batman to me. Excellent video!!!
I think one of my favorite things about Batman Beyond is how you could almost feel Terry growing into being Batman as the series went on. Or how in some ways he’s just naturally the type of person that you’d need to take up Batman. And I know genetics stuff but whatever. But like there’s one scene where he’s studying with friends and he just jumps out of a third story window without the suit to pursue what they think they see as some guy creeping around in the backyard. And he even starts doing that classic Batman disappear trick too.
I still think my favorite mantle pas is Mayday Parker becoming Spider-Girl. Mostly because I think it’s the first one I had been made aware of as a kid.
I only watched Batman Beyond cause a friend insisted and to be honest I found it easy to accept Terry in only a few episodes. He is a balance of new with a respect for the old. I wish more properties took this skeleton for their own legacy characters.
I had NO idea there were that many Batman Beyond comic series. In my head they only had a couple of short-lived runs and some sporadic cameos. *the more you know*
imagine if the next Arkham game was centered around Terry with a familiar Gotham City (from Arkham Knight), but changed with higher skyscrapers while old parts of Gotham remain the same down below (making it Old Gotham). Imagine gliding around the city for a few seconds filled a gauge for one rocket boost, and we could do that repetitively. Imagine how advanced the combat system would be, more bigger picture like PS4 Spiderman's SO MANY POSSIBILITIES
There is another thing I like about the set up of Terry. Biology aside he stands for 2 things. One is that he has the potential to become a better Batman, not in the sense of pure skill, but because he can be a more complete person because he isn't driven by trauma. Because Bruce can train him and he isn't broken deep down he has the potential to do things Bruce can't in the sense of self limitation. Also, he's essentially Bruce's happy ending. Bruce molded his trauma into a strength at the cost of his own happiness. He is the mission now and he's willing to sacrifice himself for it... Until Terry comes around and becomes his last chance to have a surrogate son. Dick of course is Bruce's son but after so much time Dick is his own man so this is the point of him being a legacy character... to continue the legacy like a son would. Terry is my favorite legacy character. At least for American superhero stuff. If a character is a sidekick for a while and is competent then I think they can take up the mantle so long as its respectful. Or on occasion birthright as it makes sense for a child to grow up in that environment or be assisted by legitimately concerned veterans, like Mayday Parker.
on the point of terry being a better batman terry at his core is also driven by the same thing truama of losing family the never again. but unlike bruce who let it consume him terry didn't he still uses has a source of strength but it doesn't torture terry like it did bruce. bruce and and terry both went into the abyss but only terry came out of it
My ultimate favorite legacy characters are Barry Allen, Wally West and Miles Morales. First with the Flashes. I was introduced to Barry via John Wesley-Ship's show, then the DCAU had Wally West but they didn't reveal which Flash until the 1st season finale giving time for us to get to know and love the character. Miles was introduced in an alternate universe, and he eventually came to the main universe. I am all for characters passing the torch. I think Peter needs to become Miles' guy in the chair, have him be happy, married to MJ maybe having a kiddo. One problem with Miles is both he and Peter are science guys. Peter does have experience contacts that could help Miles,
The only other series that ever handled superheroes aging and legacy characters correctly is Kurt Busiek's Astro City. You especially see that whole notion of time catching up in the storyline Lover's Quarrel and the most touching legacy character story of the series is "Wish I May...".
So many thoughts. Such a good vid. - Perfect look for the deep dive. Props. -Hated the Justice League end. Making Terry a Bruce clone undermines the show's strength of making him someone who plays off of Bruce Wayne as a counterpoint. - Stories that show characters becoming mature requires writers who understand maturity. Props to the people who wrote Batman Beyond. - I don't feel like it showed Batman as a failure but rather gave the reality that he was just one man fighting a sisyphean battle against evil that wore him down, and toll that putting his war against super villains before everything else took on him. He then wound up being a great mentor to someone. It was beautiful - Return of the Joker was probably the best Batman movie fite me. - I will never not laugh at the Talia episode. Made Ra's a Freudian nightmare in the most entertaining way while somehow managing to maintain character consistency and believability. A feat that I have only really seen accomplished by the It Was Me Barry meme since. - It is interesting you bring up Jason Todd, because not only is this showing how to do a mantle passing right with one of the most famous fictional characters, but they also kind of managed to show how Jason Todd could have been written to not be annoying back before he was brought back from Poochie's planet. - I'd like to hear a bit about the comics from around the series by one of the writers. It sounds good but I missed it. - Probably the best argument I've seen why Batman Beyond should be taken seriously rather than as a one-off. Good job, Sasha!
Terry was a very tricky character to pull off. He basically came out of nowhere and "usurped" the place of well-established characters, but the creators did their job and it worked, especially since they kept building on it little by little so that by the time the JLU show ended and we got a "series finale" for Batman Beyond where it came out that Terry and Bruce were actually related by blood it didn't feel cheap or unearned, and much to the contrary, it felt right.
I really enjoyed Batman Beyond. I like the idea of a different type of Batman who didn't take everything so seriously. I also loved seeing Barbara continue the fight, but not as Batgirl. Return of the Joker is by far the best Batman film, ever. The flashback scene where Bruce and Barbara hunt down Tim and fight Joker and Harley is amazing. The fight between Batgirl and Harley ALONE is amazing. Also having Sabrina the Teenage Witch play a couple of clown twins was delightful.
There's that time travel episode of Justice League where present day Batman sees old Bruce & is surprised he managed to live that long. It'd be fascinating to see the DCAU deal with Batman dying in the line of duty in his prime.
A few things I didn't appreciate, some things I wished for but didn't get, but so darn close to perfect, I thought. And one of my favorite 'bits' was "Nana Harley". As always thank you so very much for the video.
The genetic angle is actually pushed since episode one, just in an incredibly subtle way. Tery has dark hair, his mom and dad have red hair. Red hair is a recessive gene, meaning that if it's paired with any dominant gene it'll always be suppressed and the phenotype will be that of the dominant gene. Them having red hair makes it genetically impossible for Terry to have a black hair phenotype unless half of his DNA comes from someone else.
The best mantle passes are probably the ones people have mostly forgotten the original: Berry Allen, Hal Jordan. The silver age reboots of The Flash and Green Lantern completely overwrote the characters in fandom. I have always loved Jay and Alan, the annual JLA/JSA team up was thrilling as a kid. I find Terry's Batman to be more Spider-man than grim dark knight, which for me is what made it a story worth telling.
The funny thing is that "Batman Beyond" can probably be considered an AU of the original series AFTER Batman goes time traveling in "Justice League Unlimited" and meets his future self. Batman was already on a steady trajectory of becoming more sociable and willing to ask for help, and happier overall. I really like to think that the major events of "Batman Beyond" still happened, but that Bruce was overall a happier person in the future, and so was the rest of the Bat family.
Batman Beyond holds a special place in my heart as it was one of three animated shows I could get my mother to watch with me growing up. As for the show itself it introduced me to the concept of heroes actually aging and I think it did a good job. Bruce fought the good fight for decades but Batman or not he is only human.
Loved this! I honestly really appreciate how this series treats Bruce. Dude is not well and it's not surprising the DCAU Batman would end up alone and sad.
There’s actually a good reason we hardly see any of Bruce’s old villains. It’s because the creator of the show wanted to give new villains to this new Batman. They came up with concept art for some and just gave them to the write to make up any background information they want. Like shriek they just told the writers this is a sound villain and you can make up the rest
The uniqueness of the villains was one of my favourite parts of Batman Beyond. I don't remember their name but the sound-based villain blew my mind as a kid.
Wow, this was way more in depth than I expected. A pleasant surprise, and I'd be hella excited to get more like this periodically. Nicely done, for real
When Batman Beyond is an isolated set of stories - it works well. As you said there will be questions about how the legacy of other characters kind of gets in the way at times. The real problem is not with Terry, its with DC not really wanting to integrate a future (thus limiting the 'present') to a defined point. Look at Legion of Super Heroes - it suffers from the same problem with no torch passing. Any change in the 'present' now has to be distilled into the 'future'. Not all writers can handle this kind of time (thought) travel well. Its much easier to just shift or rearrange uncomfortable elements out of the spotlight. This would work better being on its own and crafting a universe that isn't linked to today's (pick a point in time for divergence and go from there) events. And I agree 100% with you - in passing a torch it must be done slowly to help the audience move to the delivery of the new character. If not it will be rejected as a clone or replacement when the audience isn't ready for it.
what I really love about this show is that Bruce's behaviour is realistic. Every time Bruce say something or does something you can easily understand why. You can see that he is not ready to let Batman go but that he doesn't have the strength to continue fighting crime. So he does what he can: he become Terry's "Watchtower", he uses his detective abilities and, when Terry is in real danger, he still goes to save him, even when he knows it may cost his life. If the animated series had continued, I am 100% sure that that would have been how Bruce would have gone out in the end: Terry is in danger, Bruce goes to help him but it ends up costing his life.
Back when I was younger and thought I would break into comics as a writer, a lot of the ideas I toyed with dealt with legacies and exploring the nature of them. Along with the Phantom (probably the original legacy hero), Batman Beyond was one of those characters that I felt dealt with the legacy aspect of the story pretty well.
I really like Terry. He's got a bit of Jason Todd in him by being a rebel with a checkered past, but he's still humble enough to defer to Bruce's superior wisdom when it counts. Passing the mantle onto a Tim Drake-esque, boy-scout character would've been too convenient for Bruce and the story's progression. It's the growing pains between Bruce and Terry that adds to their dynamic.
Although I'm not a fan of he extended Bat-Family generally, I always liked Terry. The Bat-Family members who Bruce didn't recruit himself make more sense to me, as they don't call Bruce's judgment into question the way the Robins do. I always liked Barbara for this reason as well.
The 50 issue run had some real highpoints (for me the arc with a fair bit of focus on Comissioner Babs with the whole city falling to chaos) & some noticeable dips (Terry's little brother felt kind of in the way as Robin and didn't really have much to do) but overall it was a really enjoyable ride.
This mantle also makes me think about how a mantle change is imminent with the "death of the JL" event in April. Im still hoping for a Cassandra Cain takes up the mantle run.
Hey you mentioned Damian’s bat dragon! That’s Goliath. He features heavily in “Robin : Son of Batman”. I think that book was from 2015. He’s a lot more cute in that book.
I hate seeing anyone else that isn't Bruce taking up the mantle....except for Terry. Even Dick, let alone Tim, Jason or Damian. I want Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin and Damian to be their own people and identities. Terry's Bat is special in the sense in that he doesn't emulate Bruce's weaknesses (his relationships) and putting Bruce in a support position. They just have chemistry too working together compared to how Dick and Damian did. Makes Bruce more human too and not sugarcoat him as much: besides it's a joy seeing him kick ass even with a cane. Characters like Max, Stalker and Dana to an extent are so fascinating. Plus, Beyond's futuristic neo-noir goth aesthetic is 🤩🥰🥰🥰🥰 The show has held up incredibly well. And I TOTALLY didn't have a crush on Terry as a young girl... 👀👁
On a side note, I HATE what they've done with trying to making Terry and Matt biologically Bruce's. It just sours the whole point of what made the show so special, along with Terry. I'm glad that comics do not acknowledge that stupid ass retcon that JLU Unlimited tried pulling. Best to pretend it never happened.
This show had so much against it when it was first pitched in development. A teenage Batman focusing on high school problems? On paper that sounded like one of the worst concepts you can think of when creating Batman media, but those beautiful bastards took that shitty concept and made gold out of it. A new Batman taking the role of an old one, a 1940's Gotham becoming a futuristic gothic-cyberpunk world, the old Batman serving as a mentor and showing new opportunities in story telling? Such an incredible combination. To this day it's still one of my favorite Batman medias to date.
I loved the original animated BB. Even though it had a younger protagonist, it was willing to tell slightly more mature stories than its predecessor. The first season even had a continuing story arc. We got to see new takes on familiar things. It wasn't perfect, but it was pretty good.
During the villains and Terry section, I think it's also to important to point out that part of why people may find Terry's villains and the overall concept of Batman Beyond kind of weak is because Batman Beyond is basically Bruce Timm and Paul Dini's take on Spider-Man. A very proto-Ultimate Spider-Man in retrospect. I vaguely remember someone who worked on the show mentioning Spidey in passing in an interview. But once it's pointed out, it makes a lot of sense. A youthful douche has a falling out with his father figure, and then becomes a hero on some "great power," shit. Then there's the villains. Derek Powers/Blight is obviously a Green Goblin/Norman Osborne parallel mixed with maybe a bit of the Kingpin. I forget the augmented hunter's name, but he's basically Kraven. Ink is Venom, Ten is Black Cat, Shriek is Shocker, Spell Binder is Mysterio, so on and so forth. All of Terry's villains are basically re-contextualized Batman villains, re-imagined Spider-Man villains, or a mix of both. Back story, characterization and all. Even Terry being a kinda clone/son of Bruce is a reference to the original demand of the studio to reboot the animated Batman/Bruce as a younger teenager. Planting the seeds of what would become DC's later attempts to make a Gotham High series. More or less, Beyond is the writing staff taking any and all ideas and suggestions and blending them together into what it became. lol
I loved batman Beyond. I think my biggest gripe was how under used Max was. She was crazy smart, Pretty much figured out who the new batman was on her own, and was wonderfully sassy. I always felt she should of been some mix on Batgirls time as oracle, and Tim drakes robin. the part of the duo that excelled at investigation and sorting clues. it would have been awesome to have another female robin. she wasn't an unhealthy stereo type either. she was a kick ass black woman who was smart as hell. Comics and comic adjacent media can always use more rounded representation.
The two moments from the animated series that I'll never forget are: old lady Harley (oh lord, grandma Quinn), and that moment when Ink tells that janitor she could see what he was doing outside her tank. Eww :D
@@DIEGhostfish If you'd like to see an evolution of that kind of character, I can't recommend The Dark Age of Kurt Busiek's Astro City enough. Specifically, how it tracks the evolution of Street Angel, a Daredevil/Green Arrow type who starts off bright and chipper in the mid to late 1960s only to go all grim and gritty in 1970s by embracing the brutality and all the horror that comes with it.
I’m so glad they continued Batman beyond through the comics, yes it would be nice to have another cartoon, or game, or he’ll even a movie, but the fact that they are still continuing the series in the comics makes me so happy! The world is a great place!
What I like about your analysis Sasha is that I can say that I like a comic but you can explain why it is that I like it. Another well done video about a legacy that was done well (at least in the animated series).
Terry is probably the only mantle pass that I like. Terry had a great dynamic with Bruce and while he respected Bruce and his opinions, still needing him, he did do things his own way. Terry was likable. He was responsible but could also act like a teen and be short sighted at times. He loved his family, but did get annoyed with them. They didn't re-hash him as a young bruce wayne or make him have little personality or make him extremely annoying and head strong. He was mature where he needed to be but not perfect. I absolutely love batman beyond and sad that it was canceled. (Though I did get Justice League after it was canceled so.... man it might have been worth it? Maybe?)
Oh gosh. Rebirth BB. I remember when "it tried" and brought back Batgirl Beyond from the online exclusives (aka Nissa). Then Jurgens later on just threw in "nah we're going Batwoman Beyond" with Babs/Dick's daughter. But the thing I always felt would be fascinating (and I'm sad Jurgens never did it) was show an end to Cassandra or Jason in this. We get one for everyone else, but man did Cass and Jason get a raw deal in all of these adaptions. I get it for the cartoon and og comic given Cass was just starting. But damn did the 2.0 and Rebirth eras kind screw up using either. Then again, these later adaptations came when DC was going, "Cass? Cass who? Bruce never had an adopted daughter. Babs was the only Batgirl." era. But I see so much darn potential for Terry and an older Jason meeting. Likewise an older Cass and Terry meeting. There in lies the real problem with BB. It sticked to the format of a "fixed" point along with Bruce pushing everyone away. Jason and Cass got really screwed over given this "fixed" point (given didn't happen yet or were ongoing). Why the retcon in the new Batman Adventures (by Dini and Burnett) feels awkward as heck now with Jason being slotted in as a rather unstable Robin in this new canon. And Cass? Well, yeah... She gets to exist in the Savage Time alternate timeline but doesn't in the main DCAU. :(
May I recommend Linkara's complete Cassandra Cain retrospective on the Atop The Fourth Wall TH-cam channel? It's a loving deep dive into the character that has a LOT to say about how she's been mishandled.
This was a wholesome watch. I love how you segmented this (I c u 🙃) & also knowing that Bruce grows out of being Batman, Ra's comes out as a creep, & then some one finally telling the joker to take a chill pill really has me interested in this character now
imagine if the next Arkham game was centered around Terry with a familiar Gotham City (from Arkham Knight), but changed with higher skyscrapers while old parts of Gotham remain the same down below (making it Old Gotham). Imagine gliding around the city for a few seconds filled a gauge for one rocket boost, and we could do that repetitively. Imagine how advanced the combat system would be, more bigger picture like PS4 Spiderman's SO MANY MORE POSSIBILITIES
Impressive explanation on the "why" of Batman Beyond and why the "why" should be solid and foundational in storytelling media, especially media that has legacy intended to be continued!
Hi i'm a brand new subscriber! Great job on this video! Neo-year sounds like it has potential to be something clever and creative, thanks for telling me about it. I love the real effort you put into stretching out your review chapters and telling us what made the experience great for you. You're definitely right about Melanie and Max, they deserve better. I would love to see their stories taken back to square one, as long as Max still knows the secret. I always liked their friendship and dynamic. I love how you expressed a lot of passion here and told a great story. Hope to see you again real soon.
As for Bruce getting a sad fate, I seem to recall Disney doing the same thing with Luke Skywalker. So why do I hate the Disney Star Wars trilogy but love Batman Beyond? The difference is in how the characters are treated. Luke is portrayed horribly out of character. His betrayal of his nephew makes absolutely no sense given his established personality and character development, and then dies a lonely, pathetic old man on an island. They blatantly replace him with Rey without her earning it and all while completely assassinating his character. Meanwhile, Bruce Wayne is given a legitimate and believable reason to hang up the cape. When Terry enters his life, the kid reignites that spark that Bruce had as Batman. He starts feeling like himself again. Terry and Bruce bring out the best in each other and Terry earns his succession of Bruce. Bruce's fate wasn't so sad after all.
Just wanted to thank you, your videos are the perfect content to watch on my second screen while I work on hobby electronics projects. Entertainment and an opportunity to learn.
I've read several Batman Beyond comics. They're well written and fun. Especially Batwoman Beyond. Blight reminded me of Dr. Phosphorus. Sasha had to mention Nightwing, who is Batwoman's father.
I very much liked the show. While I didn't read many of the comics the ones I did I didn't like. I did like some ideas from them but ideas cannot sell it all. Also Batman Beyond/Tomorrow Knight will always be Terry to me and I just cannot see anyone (Other than Bruce) wearing the suit. I wish I could find more stuff I love with Terry.
Also favorite mantle pass is Terry. I like Wally too but the thing is I watched the animated shows first so he was just flash and kid me didn't know of Barry Allen. Yep.
I am a big fan of Batman Beyond. I am not so fond of the Batman-Barbra scenario tho. But it is a really fun take on the Batman. Sure I can see some people's take that it feels like Bruce would maybe plan for a day when he could no longer continue as Batman. But I can also see Bruce, who even calls himself Batman in his own mind unable to picture such a day. Needing a dramatic reason to have to step down from the mantle. Getting to the edge of almost breaking his own principles was a interesting way that stills feels very true to the character. I need to read up on a lot of these comics. The one I have isn't fully a Batman Beyond story but heavily one. It has Terry transported to the past to destroy a robotic A.I. that makes cyborg zombies of the meta people in the future and I will leave it there. But it has other stories going on that intertwine with each other and starts merging as one story. It is a good comic.
I find Terry and Batman Beyond to be weirdly interesting, as it's almost an inevitable but unreachable future. The popularity and longetivity of the source material means that it's probably the most fully-formed 'end of Bruce Wayne' story, to the point where things either need to reach it or stand apart from it, but 'Bruce Wayne is Batman' is such an entrenched part of pop culture that we can never truly reach that point. Which gives the whole thing a weird state in alt-universe stories, because everyone recognizes that there's a place for 'The Iconic Terry Run' that becomes central and canonical, and people are just figuring out how to get there. We know that eventually Terry will be DC's equivalent of Miles Morales as Spider-Man, it's just a matter of people reverse-engineering the road to get there.
IMHO this was one of your best videos which is a high bar as your videos are fun and informative. If I weren't already a subscriber this would have me signing up. Plus, for me, Batman Beyond was one of the last really great Saturday Morning cartoons.
Terry is my favorite mantle pass because he truly was in my opinion the first mantle pass done right and the starter example for mantle passes that came after him like for example the son of Superman mantle pass is just plain you can compare It to a king passing and his son take the throne it's just expected while Terry was just this kid who came outta nowhere and became batman. But you could beg to differ because batman beyond came out like 4 years before I was born and I was a huge Batman fan while I was growing up and still am and as I got in my teen years I liked the idea of a teenager batman
Could you cover a less well received Batman replacement? Because not a lot of people care to remember him, but Azreal Batman will always have his place in my heart, even with all his 90s edge
Reading a novelised version of the whole Bane-Azrael story was my first introduction to Tim Drake. I was very confused. Who is Jean-Paul? Why is he Batman? Tim who? What even? lol
Batman Beyond came out in 1999. The same year as Phantom Menace, The Bone Collector and The World is Not Enough. So the solo agent serving the mentor who also works as "The Guy in the Chair". Was really big that year.
![[Part 1] รักมาไม่ทันตั้งตัว❤ หนุ่มสาวโสดถูกจับมาแต่งงานกันกะทันหัน แถมเธอยังเป็นหัวหน้าของเขา?!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y2pOOMkuFI0/mqdefault.jpg)
Use my code CASUALLY10 and link: bit.ly/casuallycomicsBKFeb22 to get 10% off (save up to $47!) your own authentic Japanese subscription from Bokksu! Don't miss out on this amazing snack-journey through Japan!
Are you going to talk about the sister series, Zeta, as well ?
@CasuallyComics Do a DC Origin for Circe, Wonder Woman’s foe and dangerous villain.
ima sorry girl your vid is good but ur look make u you look like u need help
No love for Futures End :(
Static Shock, Zeta, and Batman Beyond all playing on Saturdays. What a good time that was. Jackie Chan Adventures and Xiao Lin Showdown too. Good times.
Simple times…
My childhood 😪
& M.I.B. animated series
Ah, the good old days! Thinking about it makes me feel old.
Poetry
I appreciate this aging of Batman so much. I was late to the Beyond game, but when I watched it I was blown away. I like this Bruce so much better than Miller's in Dark Knight. I appreciate his limitations instead of just building around them. He feels like a more realized character, and explores themes with Batman that hadn't at that point been explored. What DOES happen when Batman can't do it anymore? Great video.
I never liked old Bruce in millers dark knight either. The power armor was just too much of a loop hole to have an old beat up Bruce who could still kick ass.
Batman beyond worked because age really did slow him down.
Another good old Bruce was in justice league kingdom come. His body was so messed up he needed a high tech exoskeleton just to function. The actual protecting of Gotham was left up to a fleet of robots, and once he opened that Pandora’s box it was only a matter of time till he turned Gotham into a police state.
Mantle passings, like Wally West becoming the Flash and Terry McGinnis becoming the new Batman worked (for me at least) because they worked for it. Wally had been around for a long time as Barry's sidekick, it made sense that he'd step up into the role, and he lived in Barry's shadow for a long time. Batman Beyond took the time to contextualize the change, Bruce was still around as Terry's mentor and Man-In-The-Chair, and it just felt organic. Jaime Reyes, conversely, had no connection to Ted Kord who had just been murdered in the same mess of a story arc and there was a lot of resistance. Its a testament to the writers making him so likeable and Didio's persistence in keeping Jaime out there for so long the he's basically 'made it' as the Blue Beetle.
Barry's my Flash (where's Wally now?), Bruce is my Batman (Beyond's future seems very unlikely), and Ted Kord will always be my Blue Beetle (waiting for the Reach's Order 66 subcoding to kick in, where Jaime turns all Hal Jordan/Parallax n becomes a villain, starts dating a dude, then simply vanishes from existence and no one remembers him...ouch )
@@vancehillhouse6484 wally’s the flash in the main series now?
You had me at Wally West
That’s why a lot of these new “legacy” characters aren’t working. Jace Fox as Batman doesn’t hit the way a former Robin becoming Batman would, or Terry, for that matter. And they made such a big deal about him being a black Batman, and especially when they started teasing the character and the rumors that it would be the son of Lucius Fox were swirling, I thought for sure it would be Luke Fox, the only son I had ever known or heard of that Lucius had, not to mention, he was already a member of the Batfamily, a ex-Marine who was extremely intelligent and good with technology. While my exposure to him was minimal, mainly being from the animated movie, Batman: Bad Blood, and I looked forward to seeing more from the character. I mean, it made sense for him to be a Batman, but his own version that I would have thought would be even more reliant on technology than Bruce is. He would basically be a true amalgamation of Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne, using his Batwing suit as his Batman suit, but maybe even further upgraded to be a proto-Batman Beyond suit. And instead, Jace Fox shows up. You can imagine my disappointment. Luke could have had so much potential, maybe even forming a kind of tech trifecta with Barbara and Tim, working together to outthink their problems and villains, and maybe over time Luke could become less reliant on tech, maybe by being stuck in a situation where he couldn’t, like an EMP going off, where he then has to focus on training he had gotten from Bruce and other Batfamily members. But Jace was a let down. As has Jonathan. He is the literal son of Superman, and they took this cute kid that everyone had loved for years, especially with his interactions with his best friend, Damian Wayne, and aged him up in a whole bunch of time that we don’t really get to see, sent him to the future, brought him back, and now all of a sudden he is taking Clark’s place as a… what is he, like 17? Maybe 18 year old. DC was known for their legacy characters. It’s something they did way more before Marvel ever did. Batman had Robin. Superman had Supergirl. Wonder Woman had Wonder Girl. But somehow in these recent times, they forget or purposefully ignore these classic legacy characters for no reason. While Yara Flor is cool, has a good design and could have been a good Wonder Woman, I would much rather have seen Donna or Cassie be utilized. But for the most part, those other legacy characters get thrown under the bus in the name of diversity and a massive influx of new characters that rarely gain any traction, because these new writers and editors do not know their true audience anymore and instead rely on what people on Twitter say. It is sad to watch a universe I love so much, die slowly, from the inside out.
this is why I don't like jon being superman and think that conner should be instead. Jon never really worked for the title, he jsut got it by default cause clark was a away and they wanted to push jon. Conner meanwhile has proven time and time again that he deserves the superman title, and has been building up to it ever since he was first created. I really hope dc makes him the new superman and de-ages jon.
Wow, what a unique deep dive for you. You explained why this worked, when easily this shouldn't have, and how out of the gate this became a successful legacy character.
One thing that I get sad about (only because it wasn't made yet), but Batman Beyond is so sad when the height of the universe with JLU, had so many heroes... And now, they're hardly there, or long gone. There's probably a message that all good things don't last in the end or something.
One thing I am surprised wasn't mentioned:
The main audience was the perfect age.
The TAS main demographic had aged to where this was edgy enough to be accepted.
BB's main demographic was just the right age to really enjoy the more silly parts, whilst feeling that the darker moments were glimpses into a more adult world, somethin they werent supposed to see but wanted to (ya know, like with TAS).
And later this age range had the ability to go back and 'discover' TAS, something that really adds to the weight of this series. Ask anyone who grew up on Star Trek TNG and then went back and found TOS. Or went from DS9 to TNG.
Add to that the flawless and extremely adaptable character design and you have one hell of a nostalgia bomb that can get lit and go off several times over.
Bruces life in Batman Beyond always felt like the natural conclussion of what we began to see during the new adventures series. He had grown more and more obsessed in a way, and started to treat the people around him less like people or family, and more like footsoldiers, plus he became way more brutal then he ever was. You can see this immediatly in the episode in which he recruited Tim Drake or in the one were we got to see Dick quit being Robin.
There was also another movie planed for Batman Beyond which would've taken place a year after the return of the Joker which, apperently, was ment to show how the DCAU-Batfamily broke apart. Some ideas from this draft were apperently used in the infamous comic version, but the generall idea stayed the same. Barbara was supposed to quit being Batgirl after everything that happened to Tim (which also included ending the relationship with Bruce), and Dick would've broken off from Bruce after he had found out that his adoptive father was in a relationship with his girlfriend.
the later was also part of the reason Dick never appeared in Beyond. Warner didn't want this weird love triangle shown in the TV-series, hence why Bruces and Barbaras relationship was never directly addressed (The most we got was her telling Terry once about it, and even then it was not directly spoken out.)
I still hate Bruce Timm's obsession with Bruce and Barbara as a couple.
@@Xehanort10 just about everyone does. It changes Bruce and babras entire relationship to appear as grooming which is fucking gross
@@Xehanort10 just because I like Batman beyond my head cannon is that Barbara was like 25+ when she started dating batman and the family dynamic was already kinda thrown to begin with. But yea Bruce still looks super creepy either way. It's also one of the larger problems with beyond is Barbara where she is there but her age sometimes feels in flux like they don't know how old she is supposed to be.
@@Xehanort10 I feel like everyone hates his obsession with that concept. I certainly do. Thank goodness that idea never managed to make the jump into the actual comics, sans the BTAS and Batman Beyond comics. And yet, despite knowing that literally no one else was on board with the idea of Bruce and Barbara as a couple, he doubled down on it in the animated movie for the Killing Joke. Kevin Conroy even tried to warn him it was a bad idea and that the fans would hate it, but nope he went full steam ahead.
@@wise_girl9388 I felt sorry for Conroy and Hamill when they did the animated Killing Joke. They'd wanted to voice Batman and Joker in an adaptation of it for years. Instead they got a fanfic with Killing Joke tacked on.
This is going into depth about story telling reasons why this show is good, but if I’m being honest I love it for no serious reason. I just love Terry, his interactions with Wayne, the implication that in the future everyone is goth, I just think it’s fun. That’s the main reason why it will always be one of my favorite shows
Shway!
A world where everyone listen to post-punk band Bauhaus? Yes please.
I like your low key Nora Fries cosplay.
What I like about Terry McGinnis is he felt like a perfect mix of Spider-Man and Batman. He had Peter’s cockiness, one of a happy life, and down to earth problems. But also Bruce’s temper, reserved emotions, and loner persona. It resulted in a character that felt familiar but also fresh, which is a great combination for a legacy character.
I also got that Spider-man vibe from Kyle Rayner's Green Lantern.
So many episodes of BB really stuck with me due to their darkness such as Inque tricking a guy into becoming a blob monster or the Dad whose skeleton and consciousness get fused into the Earth, etc.
Also, the pure gold that is "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?"
That earthfused thing creeped me out to no end and was awesome.
I have always liked how the animated series Batman Beyond handled the transition, I was not happy with the Terry is sorta Bruce's son. I do like the idea of Waller trying to create a new Batman, one she could control and failing in that matter.
I HATED the idea when I heard about it. But then I saw "Epilogue" for myself (which contains the best anti-edgelord moment for Batman Classic EVER in the death of Ace) and the execution of it just won me over. It HAD been part of a master plan but the plan went off the rails at the critical juncture (though seriously, what in the hell was Waller thinking about hiring Bruce's ex-fiancee to do THAT job?)
I agree entirely Michael. In fact, I think there should be a government clone Batman character. That would be a dark and interesting to see.
She wasn't trying to make a controllable Batman. That truly was altruism with her psychopathy.
But I too hated it and it's so unnecessary. And diminishes what started the series, the death of Terry's actual dad.
@@johnathonhaney8291 it's a good episode no doubt. Incredibly Well done. It doesn't mean the idea was good though.
Batman Beyond is the perfect send off but it's also the best example of passing a mantle. It's perfect.
In my mind, the most important thing in creating Legacy Characters is honoring the legacy (not just with the character, but also in the story, universe, and lore). Everything else (crafting the “world” the they inhabits, how they interact with other characters, their personalities, etc.) is important too, but they’re important for creating any good Characters. If the character doesn’t have respect for the legacy they inherited, you don’t have a Legacy Character but a Chaser, a character created for the purpose of the chasing after the fame and recognition of their predecessors while ignoring everything that made them popular in the first place.
Yes
Yes
Well said.
The issue is a lot simpler..it doesn't make sense to legacy a person that is still active.
And there will always be a grudge when it seems artificial. Edit: by that I mean killing someone just to replace them(or other forms of sidelining).
It's why the JSA works. Most of the heroes are long retired or long dead. And their deaths had nothing to do with setting up a new hero.
Even though Bruce tanks most of his relationships with the rest of the batfamily by the time of Beyond, which is sad, there's a bit of solace in the finale to JL where Terry, who by this point is an adult and you can assume has grown into his own batman, and doesn't need Bruce's help anymore, chooses to still stay with Bruce and take care of him this time around as Bruce is approaching the end of his life. Also Bruce acting like a naggy, old grandpa in that scene is pretty funny.
The Batman Beyond animated series was such a banger back in the day. Things def got weird in the end of the JL animated series when they did the whole DNA modification between Bruce and Terry. I haven't read much of the Batman Beyond comics so this video is extremely helpful!
Yeah that story line never sat well with me. It felt very forced. Like, "NO NO, not just ANYONE can be Batman, you must essentially BE Bruce Wayne, because *Science Reasons* !" The main BB series was great though.
That's some Fox Die stuff.
That all went completely past me at first. Then later I went back amd wanted to explore this version of Batman some more and off course quickly found that tidbit.
It immediately set me of pursuing any continuation of this character. It feels like such an... Executive meddling decision that I immediately went 'Well. They fucked it then.'
Didn't change a thing about how I view the main series of BB though. Rewatched it a while back (late 30's) and still think it holds up.
@@user-zh4vo1kw1z That's comics for you. Haha. Now I want to go back and watch the show.
@@thebandwagonfanpodcast you should, it's worth the watch.
Be prepared for something that is in a weird way a perfect distillation of 90's (kids animation) and yet is equally timeless.
I'm wanting there to be a Casually Comics Comic Universe with a lead character called Miles May-Vary.
NICE 🖖🏾
Batman Beyond is so good especially when you learn all the corporate meddling behind the scenes. It feels like something that was destined to be shunned by fans and try to be buried by creators but it ended up working
Tbh, they were blessed by luck too. Buffy premiered two years before Batman Beyond and gave them a framework to work in. You can absolutely see how Terry is very much inspired by Buffy Summers, and Old Bruce has a lot of Giles to him.
This was a nice retrospective and it makes me want to rewatch Batman Beyond again
Batman the Animated series, Mask of the Phantasm and Batman Forever are so amazing because it really felt like the writers, artists, everyone involved were very knowledgeable in the Batman lore and quite comfortable in writing stories that were new and exciting while maintaining the original archetype respectfully well in mind, that is a rare thing :P
I still remember the day I finally saw my first full BTAS episode, "The Cat And The Claw Part I". My grandmother, practically my second mother, had just died and I was lost in a fog, just watching her old TV for some relief. Then I saw...this show, so much more together and grown up than the Sunday morning cartoons I'd watch on this TV. Didn't make the pain but it punched through the fog. Never forgot that.
One of the reasons I like comic tv adaptations over the comic universe is that they have a beginning and an end and that things are allowed to change so I really like legacy characters like Terry. Batman Beyond is fantastic.
I was just thinking today how Terry becoming Batman was such a great passing of the torch and, voilà, your video showed up in my feed! You touch on all the points of why this works as opposed to other, particularly more recent, cases. For my part, I think it was easier to accept Batman Beyond as a natural continuation of BTAS that took place in the distant future of Gotham, and watching that mentor/student dynamic between an aged Bruce and the young and brash Terry, a dynamic that also resembles a father/son relationship. That first episode does a solid job establishing why Bruce eventually (he was still Batman even in his old age!) gave up the cape and cowl. He doesn't immediately accept Terry, they have their different ways to tackle certain issues, but they learn off each other and, shockingly, Terry is allowed to fail, pick himself back up, and grow into the mantle of Batman. It's ironic that Terry, the guy who literally steals the batsuit, does more to earn this mantle than those brand new "chosen ones" who need to be validated by their predecessors at every turn.
Out of the past was a great episode. The musical was hilarious, or as Bruce called it “swarbage”
🎵 a superstitious, cowardly lot🎶
They lie and they cheat but they always get caught!
All their schemes will come to naught!
That super-stitious, cowardly lot!
That final "...Batman" out of Kevin Conroy is one of the funniest moments in anything ever.
I liked when he turned to Terry and said “you hate me…don’t you”
I'm reminded of Hawkeye passing his mantle on to Kate Bishop, because that worked rather well as well. She wasn't just a substitute for when he was dead - once he came back, having her keep the mantle felt good. And that was because Clint had *changed.* He was running around as a ninja, being all dark and gruesome. His death and experiences had led him to changing as a character, and that left a hole in the narrative for someone else to fill. By the time he came back, Kate had succeeded in the Hawkeye mantle so well that they did something then unheard of - they shared it. It's remarkably similar, because Terry and Bruce, while not Batman at the same time chronologically, were still sharing the Batman title for the audience. But character growth is good, and fans like it. I think the key to having legacy characters work is to have the originals change and grow, because then it doesn't look like they're taking anything away, rather the characters we love are exploring new frontiers. (I think Spider-Man might be another good example. We're used to Peter as a put-upon teen, but he's a put-upon adult now. Having young blood come in feels natural, which is why Miles has succeeded so well, and why Miles' movie was so beloved.)
Kate didn't succeed or fail. And Miles was in a different universe.
Spider-women have shared the title too. In both cases, it didn't really pass. Because there wasn't a good reason for it when miles is in a universe with an alive spider-man.
He'd be better off trying to gain his own identity which they did try and failed.
The movie also took place in a universe where Pete was dead.
I don't see the point in redundant names. Seems to just be leftovers from needless attempts.
My personal favorite legacy hand-off was at the end of the Starman series, when Jack decides to raise his infant far from the madness that took so much from him and his family and formally passes the cosmic rod and the Star* title to Courtney. I always liked Courtney and she took the titles seriously in JSA where she was featured.
I dropped this comic when they replaced Terry. I was like, "Okay. That's creepy. Nope."
He came back during rebirth though and Damian even shows up.
Great dive on BB. Always felt that this mantle passing was one of the best. Similar to Batman but not exactly the same, which also applies to his rogue's gallery. And we also had Bruce to help lead/mold Terry, so have our cake and eat it too. 100% agree that they missed the mark on Max.
I enjoyed Terry in Batman Beyond although Bruce will always be the true Batman for me. It felt like Bruce was actually more in an Alfred role to Terry, rather than in a traditional Batman and Robin role.
I love Batman Beyond so much, it made me giddy to see this video title! In my mind: Terry is the only person to take the mantle in the absence of Bruce that genuinely felt like Batman to me. Excellent video!!!
I think one of my favorite things about Batman Beyond is how you could almost feel Terry growing into being Batman as the series went on. Or how in some ways he’s just naturally the type of person that you’d need to take up Batman. And I know genetics stuff but whatever. But like there’s one scene where he’s studying with friends and he just jumps out of a third story window without the suit to pursue what they think they see as some guy creeping around in the backyard. And he even starts doing that classic Batman disappear trick too.
I still think my favorite mantle pas is Mayday Parker becoming Spider-Girl. Mostly because I think it’s the first one I had been made aware of as a kid.
Another great example of time passage being a great way to do this. People age, and Pete was still cool as a dad.
I only watched Batman Beyond cause a friend insisted and to be honest I found it easy to accept Terry in only a few episodes. He is a balance of new with a respect for the old. I wish more properties took this skeleton for their own legacy characters.
Batman Beyond was ahead and beyond his own time
Yes, it was streets ahead.
I had NO idea there were that many Batman Beyond comic series. In my head they only had a couple of short-lived runs and some sporadic cameos. *the more you know*
For me I love it all but Terry's suit has one of the absolute strongest designs of any batsuit. Striking, sleek, futuristic
Why there has yet to be a live-action movie or videogame about this man Terry…I will never understand
The video game definitely should have happened.
I would kill for an arkham game set in the batman beyond world
imagine if the next Arkham game was centered around Terry with a familiar Gotham City (from Arkham Knight), but changed with higher skyscrapers while old parts of Gotham remain the same down below (making it Old Gotham).
Imagine gliding around the city for a few seconds filled a gauge for one rocket boost, and we could do that repetitively.
Imagine how advanced the combat system would be, more bigger picture like PS4 Spiderman's
SO MANY POSSIBILITIES
Well, there was a tie in game for Return of the Joker…
There is another thing I like about the set up of Terry. Biology aside he stands for 2 things. One is that he has the potential to become a better Batman, not in the sense of pure skill, but because he can be a more complete person because he isn't driven by trauma. Because Bruce can train him and he isn't broken deep down he has the potential to do things Bruce can't in the sense of self limitation.
Also, he's essentially Bruce's happy ending. Bruce molded his trauma into a strength at the cost of his own happiness. He is the mission now and he's willing to sacrifice himself for it... Until Terry comes around and becomes his last chance to have a surrogate son. Dick of course is Bruce's son but after so much time Dick is his own man so this is the point of him being a legacy character... to continue the legacy like a son would.
Terry is my favorite legacy character. At least for American superhero stuff. If a character is a sidekick for a while and is competent then I think they can take up the mantle so long as its respectful. Or on occasion birthright as it makes sense for a child to grow up in that environment or be assisted by legitimately concerned veterans, like Mayday Parker.
on the point of terry being a better batman terry at his core is also driven by the same thing truama of losing family the never again. but unlike bruce who let it consume him terry didn't he still uses has a source of strength but it doesn't torture terry like it did bruce. bruce and and terry both went into the abyss but only terry came out of it
My ultimate favorite legacy characters are Barry Allen, Wally West and Miles Morales. First with the Flashes. I was introduced to Barry via John Wesley-Ship's show, then the DCAU had Wally West but they didn't reveal which Flash until the 1st season finale giving time for us to get to know and love the character. Miles was introduced in an alternate universe, and he eventually came to the main universe. I am all for characters passing the torch. I think Peter needs to become Miles' guy in the chair, have him be happy, married to MJ maybe having a kiddo. One problem with Miles is both he and Peter are science guys. Peter does have experience contacts that could help Miles,
Never really liked Miles, maybe having him be so much younger annoyed me. And there were some general annoyances with late era 1610
The only other series that ever handled superheroes aging and legacy characters correctly is Kurt Busiek's Astro City. You especially see that whole notion of time catching up in the storyline Lover's Quarrel and the most touching legacy character story of the series is "Wish I May...".
So many thoughts. Such a good vid.
- Perfect look for the deep dive. Props.
-Hated the Justice League end. Making Terry a Bruce clone undermines the show's strength of making him someone who plays off of Bruce Wayne as a counterpoint.
- Stories that show characters becoming mature requires writers who understand maturity. Props to the people who wrote Batman Beyond.
- I don't feel like it showed Batman as a failure but rather gave the reality that he was just one man fighting a sisyphean battle against evil that wore him down, and toll that putting his war against super villains before everything else took on him. He then wound up being a great mentor to someone. It was beautiful
- Return of the Joker was probably the best Batman movie fite me.
- I will never not laugh at the Talia episode. Made Ra's a Freudian nightmare in the most entertaining way while somehow managing to maintain character consistency and believability. A feat that I have only really seen accomplished by the It Was Me Barry meme since.
- It is interesting you bring up Jason Todd, because not only is this showing how to do a mantle passing right with one of the most famous fictional characters, but they also kind of managed to show how Jason Todd could have been written to not be annoying back before he was brought back from Poochie's planet.
- I'd like to hear a bit about the comics from around the series by one of the writers. It sounds good but I missed it.
- Probably the best argument I've seen why Batman Beyond should be taken seriously rather than as a one-off. Good job, Sasha!
Terry was a very tricky character to pull off. He basically came out of nowhere and "usurped" the place of well-established characters, but the creators did their job and it worked, especially since they kept building on it little by little so that by the time the JLU show ended and we got a "series finale" for Batman Beyond where it came out that Terry and Bruce were actually related by blood it didn't feel cheap or unearned, and much to the contrary, it felt right.
I really enjoyed Batman Beyond. I like the idea of a different type of Batman who didn't take everything so seriously. I also loved seeing Barbara continue the fight, but not as Batgirl. Return of the Joker is by far the best Batman film, ever. The flashback scene where Bruce and Barbara hunt down Tim and fight Joker and Harley is amazing. The fight between Batgirl and Harley ALONE is amazing. Also having Sabrina the Teenage Witch play a couple of clown twins was delightful.
There's that time travel episode of Justice League where present day Batman sees old Bruce & is surprised he managed to live that long. It'd be fascinating to see the DCAU deal with Batman dying in the line of duty in his prime.
A few things I didn't appreciate, some things I wished for but didn't get, but so darn close to perfect, I thought. And one of my favorite 'bits' was "Nana Harley".
As always thank you so very much for the video.
Yeah, Nana Harley was a nice throwaway gag. Considering what happened to her Mr. J, I wonder if her fate was more or less pathetic than his.
The genetic angle is actually pushed since episode one, just in an incredibly subtle way. Tery has dark hair, his mom and dad have red hair. Red hair is a recessive gene, meaning that if it's paired with any dominant gene it'll always be suppressed and the phenotype will be that of the dominant gene.
Them having red hair makes it genetically impossible for Terry to have a black hair phenotype unless half of his DNA comes from someone else.
But someone will wash it off as "anime" style. Everyone get their own hair color
Resesive genes dont exist?
The best mantle passes are probably the ones people have mostly forgotten the original: Berry Allen, Hal Jordan. The silver age reboots of The Flash and Green Lantern completely overwrote the characters in fandom. I have always loved Jay and Alan, the annual JLA/JSA team up was thrilling as a kid.
I find Terry's Batman to be more Spider-man than grim dark knight, which for me is what made it a story worth telling.
I miss Terry. Batman Beyond was my childhood might have to look into reading some comics (I mostly engage with the DCAU or the CW verse)
I honestly enjoy Terry more than Bruce. Aside from Tim Drake, I think Terry is the best man to take the mantle.
The funny thing is that "Batman Beyond" can probably be considered an AU of the original series AFTER Batman goes time traveling in "Justice League Unlimited" and meets his future self. Batman was already on a steady trajectory of becoming more sociable and willing to ask for help, and happier overall. I really like to think that the major events of "Batman Beyond" still happened, but that Bruce was overall a happier person in the future, and so was the rest of the Bat family.
Batman Beyond holds a special place in my heart as it was one of three animated shows I could get my mother to watch with me growing up. As for the show itself it introduced me to the concept of heroes actually aging and I think it did a good job. Bruce fought the good fight for decades but Batman or not he is only human.
Loved this! I honestly really appreciate how this series treats Bruce. Dude is not well and it's not surprising the DCAU Batman would end up alone and sad.
There’s actually a good reason we hardly see any of Bruce’s old villains. It’s because the creator of the show wanted to give new villains to this new Batman. They came up with concept art for some and just gave them to the write to make up any background information they want. Like shriek they just told the writers this is a sound villain and you can make up the rest
This editing though... This channel has come so far and this was so amazing. Seriously this is the best comic channel on TH-cam.
I've seen every video in this channel and this might be my favorite. What a wonderful and insightful dive.
The uniqueness of the villains was one of my favourite parts of Batman Beyond. I don't remember their name but the sound-based villain blew my mind as a kid.
The villain you are referring to , I believe, is Shriek 😊
Wow, this was way more in depth than I expected. A pleasant surprise, and I'd be hella excited to get more like this periodically.
Nicely done, for real
Batman Beyond theme has been my cell phone ringer for YEARS.
When Batman Beyond is an isolated set of stories - it works well. As you said there will be questions about how the legacy of other characters kind of gets in the way at times. The real problem is not with Terry, its with DC not really wanting to integrate a future (thus limiting the 'present') to a defined point. Look at Legion of Super Heroes - it suffers from the same problem with no torch passing. Any change in the 'present' now has to be distilled into the 'future'. Not all writers can handle this kind of time (thought) travel well. Its much easier to just shift or rearrange uncomfortable elements out of the spotlight. This would work better being on its own and crafting a universe that isn't linked to today's (pick a point in time for divergence and go from there) events. And I agree 100% with you - in passing a torch it must be done slowly to help the audience move to the delivery of the new character. If not it will be rejected as a clone or replacement when the audience isn't ready for it.
what I really love about this show is that Bruce's behaviour is realistic. Every time Bruce say something or does something you can easily understand why.
You can see that he is not ready to let Batman go but that he doesn't have the strength to continue fighting crime. So he does what he can: he become Terry's "Watchtower", he uses his detective abilities and, when Terry is in real danger, he still goes to save him, even when he knows it may cost his life.
If the animated series had continued, I am 100% sure that that would have been how Bruce would have gone out in the end: Terry is in danger, Bruce goes to help him but it ends up costing his life.
Back when I was younger and thought I would break into comics as a writer, a lot of the ideas I toyed with dealt with legacies and exploring the nature of them. Along with the Phantom (probably the original legacy hero), Batman Beyond was one of those characters that I felt dealt with the legacy aspect of the story pretty well.
I really like Terry. He's got a bit of Jason Todd in him by being a rebel with a checkered past, but he's still humble enough to defer to Bruce's superior wisdom when it counts.
Passing the mantle onto a Tim Drake-esque, boy-scout character would've been too convenient for Bruce and the story's progression. It's the growing pains between Bruce and Terry that adds to their dynamic.
Although I'm not a fan of he extended Bat-Family generally, I always liked Terry. The Bat-Family members who Bruce didn't recruit himself make more sense to me, as they don't call Bruce's judgment into question the way the Robins do. I always liked Barbara for this reason as well.
Great vid. I think any ongoing Batman Beyond series would be best served by being in it's own universe.
The 50 issue run had some real highpoints (for me the arc with a fair bit of focus on Comissioner Babs with the whole city falling to chaos) & some noticeable dips (Terry's little brother felt kind of in the way as Robin and didn't really have much to do) but overall it was a really enjoyable ride.
This mantle also makes me think about how a mantle change is imminent with the "death of the JL" event in April. Im still hoping for a Cassandra Cain takes up the mantle run.
Hey you mentioned Damian’s bat dragon! That’s Goliath. He features heavily in “Robin : Son of Batman”. I think that book was from 2015. He’s a lot more cute in that book.
Thanks for that. I was trying to remember where he was from again.
I hate seeing anyone else that isn't Bruce taking up the mantle....except for Terry.
Even Dick, let alone Tim, Jason or Damian. I want Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin and Damian to be their own people and identities.
Terry's Bat is special in the sense in that he doesn't emulate Bruce's weaknesses (his relationships) and putting Bruce in a support position.
They just have chemistry too working together compared to how Dick and Damian did. Makes Bruce more human too and not sugarcoat him as much: besides it's a joy seeing him kick ass even with a cane. Characters like Max, Stalker and Dana to an extent are so fascinating.
Plus, Beyond's futuristic neo-noir goth aesthetic is 🤩🥰🥰🥰🥰 The show has held up incredibly well. And I TOTALLY didn't have a crush on Terry as a young girl... 👀👁
On a side note, I HATE what they've done with trying to making Terry and Matt biologically Bruce's. It just sours the whole point of what made the show so special, along with Terry. I'm glad that comics do not acknowledge that stupid ass retcon that JLU Unlimited tried pulling. Best to pretend it never happened.
This show had so much against it when it was first pitched in development.
A teenage Batman focusing on high school problems? On paper that sounded like one of the worst concepts you can think of when creating Batman media, but those beautiful bastards took that shitty concept and made gold out of it.
A new Batman taking the role of an old one, a 1940's Gotham becoming a futuristic gothic-cyberpunk world, the old Batman serving as a mentor and showing new opportunities in story telling? Such an incredible combination.
To this day it's still one of my favorite Batman medias to date.
I loved the original animated BB. Even though it had a younger protagonist, it was willing to tell slightly more mature stories than its predecessor. The first season even had a continuing story arc. We got to see new takes on familiar things. It wasn't perfect, but it was pretty good.
During the villains and Terry section, I think it's also to important to point out that part of why people may find Terry's villains and the overall concept of Batman Beyond kind of weak is because Batman Beyond is basically Bruce Timm and Paul Dini's take on Spider-Man. A very proto-Ultimate Spider-Man in retrospect. I vaguely remember someone who worked on the show mentioning Spidey in passing in an interview. But once it's pointed out, it makes a lot of sense.
A youthful douche has a falling out with his father figure, and then becomes a hero on some "great power," shit. Then there's the villains. Derek Powers/Blight is obviously a Green Goblin/Norman Osborne parallel mixed with maybe a bit of the Kingpin. I forget the augmented hunter's name, but he's basically Kraven. Ink is Venom, Ten is Black Cat, Shriek is Shocker, Spell Binder is Mysterio, so on and so forth. All of Terry's villains are basically re-contextualized Batman villains, re-imagined Spider-Man villains, or a mix of both. Back story, characterization and all. Even Terry being a kinda clone/son of Bruce is a reference to the original demand of the studio to reboot the animated Batman/Bruce as a younger teenager. Planting the seeds of what would become DC's later attempts to make a Gotham High series. More or less, Beyond is the writing staff taking any and all ideas and suggestions and blending them together into what it became. lol
I loved batman Beyond. I think my biggest gripe was how under used Max was. She was crazy smart, Pretty much figured out who the new batman was on her own, and was wonderfully sassy. I always felt she should of been some mix on Batgirls time as oracle, and Tim drakes robin. the part of the duo that excelled at investigation and sorting clues.
it would have been awesome to have another female robin. she wasn't an unhealthy stereo type either. she was a kick ass black woman who was smart as hell. Comics and comic adjacent media can always use more rounded representation.
The two moments from the animated series that I'll never forget are: old lady Harley (oh lord, grandma Quinn), and that moment when Ink tells that janitor she could see what he was doing outside her tank. Eww :D
Terry McGinnis always struck me as being Matt Murdock if he'd been raised by Bruce. His sense of humor makes me think that a lot.
I have usually seen him compared to Pete.
@@DIEGhostfish Nah, he's a lot angrier and scrappier than Pete ever was. That's pretty much Matt Murdock pre-Frank Miller.
@@johnathonhaney8291 He was less Noir back then, but still with some more grit than pete yeah.
@@DIEGhostfish If you'd like to see an evolution of that kind of character, I can't recommend The Dark Age of Kurt Busiek's Astro City enough. Specifically, how it tracks the evolution of Street Angel, a Daredevil/Green Arrow type who starts off bright and chipper in the mid to late 1960s only to go all grim and gritty in 1970s by embracing the brutality and all the horror that comes with it.
I’m so glad they continued Batman beyond through the comics, yes it would be nice to have another cartoon, or game, or he’ll even a movie, but the fact that they are still continuing the series in the comics makes me so happy! The world is a great place!
What I like about your analysis Sasha is that I can say that I like a comic but you can explain why it is that I like it. Another well done video about a legacy that was done well (at least in the animated series).
Love your make up/hair in this one! :) I loved batman beyond and would like a "beyond" universe where they can explore things.
Terry is probably the only mantle pass that I like. Terry had a great dynamic with Bruce and while he respected Bruce and his opinions, still needing him, he did do things his own way. Terry was likable. He was responsible but could also act like a teen and be short sighted at times. He loved his family, but did get annoyed with them. They didn't re-hash him as a young bruce wayne or make him have little personality or make him extremely annoying and head strong. He was mature where he needed to be but not perfect. I absolutely love batman beyond and sad that it was canceled. (Though I did get Justice League after it was canceled so.... man it might have been worth it? Maybe?)
Why I like Terry as Batman: he talks
Oh gosh. Rebirth BB. I remember when "it tried" and brought back Batgirl Beyond from the online exclusives (aka Nissa). Then Jurgens later on just threw in "nah we're going Batwoman Beyond" with Babs/Dick's daughter. But the thing I always felt would be fascinating (and I'm sad Jurgens never did it) was show an end to Cassandra or Jason in this. We get one for everyone else, but man did Cass and Jason get a raw deal in all of these adaptions. I get it for the cartoon and og comic given Cass was just starting. But damn did the 2.0 and Rebirth eras kind screw up using either.
Then again, these later adaptations came when DC was going, "Cass? Cass who? Bruce never had an adopted daughter. Babs was the only Batgirl." era.
But I see so much darn potential for Terry and an older Jason meeting. Likewise an older Cass and Terry meeting.
There in lies the real problem with BB. It sticked to the format of a "fixed" point along with Bruce pushing everyone away. Jason and Cass got really screwed over given this "fixed" point (given didn't happen yet or were ongoing). Why the retcon in the new Batman Adventures (by Dini and Burnett) feels awkward as heck now with Jason being slotted in as a rather unstable Robin in this new canon.
And Cass? Well, yeah... She gets to exist in the Savage Time alternate timeline but doesn't in the main DCAU. :(
May I recommend Linkara's complete Cassandra Cain retrospective on the Atop The Fourth Wall TH-cam channel? It's a loving deep dive into the character that has a LOT to say about how she's been mishandled.
Watchtower database does DCAU content and they’re great.
This was a wholesome watch. I love how you segmented this (I c u 🙃) & also knowing that Bruce grows out of being Batman, Ra's comes out as a creep, & then some one finally telling the joker to take a chill pill really has me interested in this character now
I feel Batman Beyond is underrated IMO.
Terry is a good Batman and love Bruce helping him out.
imagine if the next Arkham game was centered around Terry with a familiar Gotham City (from Arkham Knight), but changed with higher skyscrapers while old parts of Gotham remain the same down below (making it Old Gotham).
Imagine gliding around the city for a few seconds filled a gauge for one rocket boost, and we could do that repetitively.
Imagine how advanced the combat system would be, more bigger picture like PS4 Spiderman's
SO MANY MORE POSSIBILITIES
Thanks for articulating the reason I love Beyond
Wally West’s FLASH, Tim Drake’s ROBIN, & Cassandra Cain’s BATGIRL Had at a Point exceeded their forerunners IMO 🖖🏾
Of all of your episodes this might be my very favorite. You get it SO well. I would love you to make/write Batman content.
Impressive explanation on the "why" of Batman Beyond and why the "why" should be solid and foundational in storytelling media, especially media that has legacy intended to be continued!
This is the best explanation of legacy characters and a recap of my favorite legacy character. Thank you.
Hi i'm a brand new subscriber! Great job on this video! Neo-year sounds like it has potential to be something clever and creative, thanks for telling me about it. I love the real effort you put into stretching out your review chapters and telling us what made the experience great for you. You're definitely right about Melanie and Max, they deserve better. I would love to see their stories taken back to square one, as long as Max still knows the secret. I always liked their friendship and dynamic. I love how you expressed a lot of passion here and told a great story. Hope to see you again real soon.
This just auto played, and after 20ish minutes of half paying attention I realized I can just rewatch the series, Thanks Sasha!
Mannn I completely agree and I loved this video so much. Fun to reminisce. Thank you so much for making this! Loved your humour!
As for Bruce getting a sad fate, I seem to recall Disney doing the same thing with Luke Skywalker. So why do I hate the Disney Star Wars trilogy but love Batman Beyond? The difference is in how the characters are treated. Luke is portrayed horribly out of character. His betrayal of his nephew makes absolutely no sense given his established personality and character development, and then dies a lonely, pathetic old man on an island. They blatantly replace him with Rey without her earning it and all while completely assassinating his character. Meanwhile, Bruce Wayne is given a legitimate and believable reason to hang up the cape. When Terry enters his life, the kid reignites that spark that Bruce had as Batman. He starts feeling like himself again. Terry and Bruce bring out the best in each other and Terry earns his succession of Bruce. Bruce's fate wasn't so sad after all.
Just wanted to thank you, your videos are the perfect content to watch on my second screen while I work on hobby electronics projects. Entertainment and an opportunity to learn.
I've read several Batman Beyond comics. They're well written and fun. Especially Batwoman Beyond. Blight reminded me of Dr. Phosphorus. Sasha had to mention Nightwing, who is Batwoman's father.
I very much liked the show. While I didn't read many of the comics the ones I did I didn't like.
I did like some ideas from them but ideas cannot sell it all.
Also Batman Beyond/Tomorrow Knight will always be Terry to me and I just cannot see anyone (Other than Bruce) wearing the suit.
I wish I could find more stuff I love with Terry.
Also favorite mantle pass is Terry.
I like Wally too but the thing is I watched the animated shows first so he was just flash and kid me didn't know of Barry Allen. Yep.
I am a big fan of Batman Beyond. I am not so fond of the Batman-Barbra scenario tho. But it is a really fun take on the Batman. Sure I can see some people's take that it feels like Bruce would maybe plan for a day when he could no longer continue as Batman. But I can also see Bruce, who even calls himself Batman in his own mind unable to picture such a day. Needing a dramatic reason to have to step down from the mantle. Getting to the edge of almost breaking his own principles was a interesting way that stills feels very true to the character.
I need to read up on a lot of these comics. The one I have isn't fully a Batman Beyond story but heavily one. It has Terry transported to the past to destroy a robotic A.I. that makes cyborg zombies of the meta people in the future and I will leave it there. But it has other stories going on that intertwine with each other and starts merging as one story. It is a good comic.
I find Terry and Batman Beyond to be weirdly interesting, as it's almost an inevitable but unreachable future. The popularity and longetivity of the source material means that it's probably the most fully-formed 'end of Bruce Wayne' story, to the point where things either need to reach it or stand apart from it, but 'Bruce Wayne is Batman' is such an entrenched part of pop culture that we can never truly reach that point.
Which gives the whole thing a weird state in alt-universe stories, because everyone recognizes that there's a place for 'The Iconic Terry Run' that becomes central and canonical, and people are just figuring out how to get there. We know that eventually Terry will be DC's equivalent of Miles Morales as Spider-Man, it's just a matter of people reverse-engineering the road to get there.
Amazing this hair and makeup combo!👏🏾👏🏾
A Batman Beyond video !! 💕💕 I look forward to watching this later.
IMHO this was one of your best videos which is a high bar as your videos are fun and informative. If I weren't already a subscriber this would have me signing up. Plus, for me, Batman Beyond was one of the last really great Saturday Morning cartoons.
Terry is my favorite mantle pass because he truly was in my opinion the first mantle pass done right and the starter example for mantle passes that came after him like for example the son of Superman mantle pass is just plain you can compare It to a king passing and his son take the throne it's just expected while Terry was just this kid who came outta nowhere and became batman. But you could beg to differ because batman beyond came out like 4 years before I was born and I was a huge Batman fan while I was growing up and still am and as I got in my teen years I liked the idea of a teenager batman
I'm right with you on the Terry/Max ship, Sasha. It just makes so look much sense...!
Could you cover a less well received Batman replacement? Because not a lot of people care to remember him, but Azreal Batman will always have his place in my heart, even with all his 90s edge
Reading a novelised version of the whole Bane-Azrael story was my first introduction to Tim Drake. I was very confused. Who is Jean-Paul? Why is he Batman? Tim who? What even? lol
Batman Beyond came out in 1999. The same year as Phantom Menace, The Bone Collector and The World is Not Enough.
So the solo agent serving the mentor who also works as "The Guy in the Chair". Was really big that year.