Dear scannerDanner. My friend has a 2009 subaroo impreza non turbo. Randomly it will stall at lower Rpm... and sometimes it will start..within 10 min or so ... and sometimes it will not start for days. (No spark) No codes... no lights zero insight of what it can be ... And once it decides to start... it's and if it has no issues... Have you come accross this issue ??
The automotive industry sometimes takes some knocks but the critics should see what I see here. A man who helps his fellow technicians by sharing knowledge and utilizing a well developed ability to teach and inspire critical analysis of automotive systems. Its also revealing that although some of these cars are [ pre OBD 2 ] configuration, They are somewhat complicated and requires in depth reflection about the design and function of the system. THANK YOU and your class attendees.
Man, can never thank you enough for all that your teaching has done for me. I'll spare the autobiography but just know that you have quite literally saved my life. I consider me accidentally clicking on one of your videos a couple years back as an act of God. Stay blessed brother!
I want to thank you for being thorough in your search and showing every different way to check for a spark! I dont have a suburu but have looked at many videos that were not thorough and caused me problems, by far the best video! Thankyou😀
That test would work here too. Don't remember if it was a pull up design or not but either way, even if it was a pull-down, it would still work with the correct polarity on your test light.
This video was wickedly informative, well done, and thanks a lot! I love the follow through at the end showing what correct results should be, and solid explanations of the theory behind what you're doing.
97 Subaru IMP with 1.8 ecu/sensors and a 2.2 longblock that ran for 5+ years until i washed the motor in Feb of this year, Next day it started running rough, then wouldn't even start. i found your video which pointed me towords the ignitor, which i replaced.
Excellent video! I was very glad you covered the unlikely hood of both coils failing, but as you probably know it can. Also why not R&R those electricals in the circuit path? Especially on a 95 ? I understand it will probably run fine for ever now, but if the cost isn't insane, why not two new coils as well? You did an excellent job!
aneyesky Well whole car is VERY old and with this approach you would have to replace whole bunch of parts;) The cost will be high. It is always your hard earned money and there is no point spending it on something that you don't need. Don't worry tomorrow something else will brake on this car;) I used to do the same because I love cars but cars are just cars... They must serve you not you them.
I agree, the ohm test is not good for testing coils. You need to stress them and view the pattern with a scope to truly know if the coil is good or not. My class is 8 weeks long and our entire associate degree automotive program is 16 months. If you want more info on our school fill out your name and email on my website and I will forward your info to one of our admissions representatives. Thanks!
@foxholewilly From my experience even a good coil will not produce a spark doing that. So I have to say a scope is necessary although if the primary is completely shorted an ohm test should show it too but this is not 100% accurate either. Thanks for the compliment too!
Just bought a MT 2400 and love it. I have a question about the MT 2500. What is the difference in the primary cartridge and the troubleshooter cartridges. Thank you and love this video. God bless
Great vid SD! 1min 51 sec in where u r back probing the coil feed wire with the test light, is it connected to ground and when u jumped over to control wires did u keep the test light connected to the same polarity when testing the feed wire? Great content as always, learning a lot from both this channel & Ur premium channel. For $11 words cannot express how great of a deal for the knowledge being passed down!
here you go search this video name "VRS Bypass Testing" this is how I test them most of the time. There are other ways of course and my next bad one I'll be sure to scope test it for you. Another one to watch is "ABS Wheel Speed Sensor Testing", this is basically the same as a pick up coil.
Somebody has a Katy Perry ringtone on their phone. Paul, I literally just purchased a M2400 that was used twice(according to the description) It even has the original warranty paperwork...of course it is by far outdated. We will see how it turns out. God bless brother
@MrGingaman if your using a multimeter a 2 volt average during a crank would be normal. remember the dmm will average the on off square wave signal. i am assuming you have no spark? take a test light to battery positive with key on and touch the ecu to igniter control wire on and off. it should fire the coil. let me know result
Of course I use diagrams all the time but I didn't need one on this system. There are so many similarities with these circuits that over time you don't need a diagram to troubleshoot it. Even if it is your first time on a particular system. Yes, I have considered a DC voltage supply circuit, actually I have an idea to make one :-)
Good Evening ScannerDanner 🙏 ✨ Have a great day 👍 Take care 👍 God bless you ScannerDanner 👍 Great tutorial thank you 👍 From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
lol I swear that wasn't my phone. It was the guy standing next to me. That is funny, I am surprised it took this long for someone to comment on that. :-)
no, the igniter ground is connected to the block. there isn't even a power feed for this particular design, just basically two transistors mounted in one housing being controlled on the base circuit by the PCM.
not sure. always tough to call a bad computer. so many variables. you really need a scope at this point to verify cam and crank signals and also that PCM to igniter control wire. You sure that wire has no opens or shorts to ground. I know you said it had continuity but did you check it for a short to ground
Thank you ScannerDanner I fixed my 92 sc400 that I love. With your info, No spark. No start Found it was crankshaft position sensor, Thank again Hope I can be of assistance, I will get your e book Regards Mcc Australia
Hi thanks for excellent and detailed videos.Could you please clarify if we didn't have a wiring diagram and we didn't know which wire was which i.e. which wire was signal, control or feed. How Safe it would be to perform all the tests you have done with a test light both at coil and ignitor, without cooking the main PCM.
I believe I showed what happens to the signal wires when a test light was connected. It pulled them to ground, so not a really good thing to do in my opinion. You really need to know what circuits you are connecting to especially when using a test light.
Yes it is discontinued, I think version 8.0 is the last update for the Mt2400. I stopped updating mine at version 6.0 I am not sure if you can still get one through Snap-On. Try ebay?
Is it the exact same wiring on the igniter as in this video? If so before calling a bad computer you have to make sure you do not have a cam or crank sensor problem. Washing the engine bay should not have hurt the computer that lives inside of the car. I am worried about a messed up crank or cam signal
Great video!!!!!! Im just curios that in this design how that ignition module does not receive a power feed to work, only a ground, I guest that is only a couple of transistors inside that case
Hey Paul: Before you went on this job, would you have looked at the wiring schematic for this particular car? Or, are you just able to deduce which wire is functioning as control, signal, "pull-up";or "pull-down", through the PCM, ignitor and coils of this particular waste-spark system. My suspicion is that you have gotten so good you just know. Ever considered getting a variable DC voltage supply for back-feeding low voltage digital circuits and components? Your thoughts??
Hi Dan thanks for the videos! I have some questions on what was shown here. Amp Probe Test - placed probe around YEL feed wire to the Ignition Coils. No current observed. How is this possible when the Test Light was steady ON earlier in the video? Test Light was used to check for current at both ends of the control wires to the Ignition Coil but can't be used to check for current to the ECU? Question on back-probing. Will I be trying to insert the pin along the wire till it hits the bare wire inside the plug or am I trying to pierce the plastic jacket? I'm going to try adapting these techniques for checking my 92 Honda Accord's igniter. I have checked for voltage on 2 wires like my manual says to do, but I did that by disconnecting them and checking voltage with the ignition set to ON. I'm going to see if I can back probe them and check for voltage that way as well. I will also check for pulsing on the YEL/GRN wire from the ECU with my normal DVM by back-probing.
+AJFresh This video is exactly what you're looking for. th-cam.com/video/LdnnFD6J8Uo/w-d-xo.html I am giving a step by step guide with my class on what tests I performed on this Subaru and why. Let me know what you think. Thanks! Don't pierce the plastic jacket, you are running the pin along the wire until it touches the terminal inside. Remember when you are testing for pulsing from the ECM (on your Honda) using a DMM, that you will be reading an average of the pulses. Also, you can check for injector pulse, which will provide you some direction as well.
Hi, I saw the case study you posted on the GM igniter bypass, Re: switches etc. The tests in this case seem pretty conclusive, however could we for instance place a intermittent voltage to the igniter at the terminals that come from the ECU, via a test light? assuming that the circuit is a pull up design? Thanks, Chris. P.S great instructional presentations.
Should i take out my efi relay while doing this? And can I still read the signal from the ecu to the coil if I unplug it from the coil cuz I cant seem to stab a t pin into the two green cables.. Thanks very useful video!!
hey man great vid helped a bit .. but still have a problem , i changed a 250t with a ej20 swapped crank angle sensors, pulleys ,intake manafold , wiring harness . wont start no spark , the ecu sends a signal to the igniter pack but is less than 2 is this a problem with the ecu? tested all wires 2 times all good. would be epic if you could help cheers
disconnect the ignitor trigger wire from ignitor and ecu and check for ground? then hook up the scope to cam/crank sensors directly or thru the harness?
Do you also have a video for 1996 subaru legacy wagon 2.2 camshaft and crankshaft sensor testing? Testing to make sure that they are good and not wasting my money to buy parts when not needed. I'd watch other videos about checking camshaft and crankshaft sensor..Mr. Paul I like your videos.
You'll find them in my chapter 21 playlist. Are they 3 wire or 2 wire sensors? Not specifically the Legacy 2.2 , at least I dont think, but certainly I have info on both 3 wire hall effect type and 2 wire magnetic pulse generator types of sensors and how to test them.
2 wire sensor for both camshaft and crankshaft sensor. heading out again for a 2 hour drive. My , the other brother in law finally had the battery check and charge, and I can't check the Ignitor because we had tooled off the timing belt and other belts for me to test...1 is mecchanilly incline and the other is Lazy.
Is there are particular kind of test light you need to be using to do these tests? I've noticed you use two different test lights in your videos.. the clear one is this video and a red one in others. Would a logic probe or a power probe work too?
Thanks for this info. I will check it out for my car. But not finding an ignitor at any of the parts places for my 2001 Subaru Legacy L. I also don't have a schematic to help diagnose. I own both a Haynes and Chilton manual (same frkn manual these days) and both have schematics, but none of the schematics include the ignition system! And the text part of the manual does not mention an ignitor. They show similar tests to what you are showing for the coil, but they say nothing about an ignitor. Did they integrate that function into the main computer for that year... or are they just neglecting to talk about the ignitor. Again... no such part showing in ignition parts lists for that car at my local parts distributor.
Mitchell or Shop Key (same diagram) There is a DIY version where you can buy access for a small period of time for your car. www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here/16-need-service-info-check-here.html Your system has the igniter built into the ignition coil. There are 4 wires, 1 power, 1 ground and 2 separate computer control wires. These are low voltage trigger signals from the ECM to the igniter.
Mr. Danner I have a question regarding the input signal to the module, if somebody had one of those cheapy scan tools with live data capability, would looking for a rpm signal from that scan tool tell you if the module is receiving an input from the computer or that's not a fullproof test? Which also reminds me of a video you and Eric the car guy did on a Ford pickup truck, if you remember that thing had a bad distributor pick up. So there would have not been an rpm signal if there was a scan tool hooked up to it right?
Hmm, I don't think theres a short to ground in the wire, can I check that by continuity of the dead wire to straight ground? Unfourtunatly I don't have easy access to a scope but I do have access to a good fluke multimeter that I've been using. Can I just test the wires coming out of the cam/crank sensors for rolling voltage like I did with the ignitor?
At the 25 second mark, you held the tip of the test light near the coil. How did you know that the side you were testing was the side where the spark comes out of the coil and not the side where the spark returns to the coil through the spark plug wire?
I've been thinking about buying a scope as I stated in a different comment on your video. I think I may buy a mt2400 since they are much more affordable than the newer SnapOn scopes. I don't have much experience with the model, what are your experiences like with the mt2400? Or do you have any other recommendations?
great video, Question. Tired the test light for spark, no spark on either coil. Checked the center power wire feed at 1:29, seems to pulse like the coil negatives which both work. With the power feed flickering, what might be wrong?
+peter shaw this is usually from a weak battery during cranking. If both control wires and the feed wire look the same (the pulse you are describing), then you have no control. Follow the procedure as outlined in this video. Make sense?
Thanks dude, this is very informative since I am a newbee to this stuff. My daughter's 2007 Suby forester cranks but is misfiring and then shuts off. What can be wrong ?
Hi, in this video, IGNITER have 2 control wire coming from ECU , one wire for steady ground and 2 wire going to DIS one for each coil, what i didnot see in IGNITER was power to the igniter. I thought IGNITER will always have power and Ground in addition to this control wire, Am i wrong?. Please advise, I also heard that IGNTIER will amplify the 3v in control signal to 12v, if so will not IGNTIER need 12v power , please share your expirience
Nice Information dude, I don't have those tools , what the hell going to replace that unit..replace the knock sensor, Iac, coil,, wires and plugs.check the belt for TDC.. WAtching other videos and showing me the camshaft and the crankshaft sensor...I'm on my Mother inlaw subaru for 3 weeks now.
Hi. Subaru.. same engine. Car sometimes dies at lower rpm as you are driving. After it dies... it cranks.. but no spark. No codes.. Then randomly it will start after a hour ..or so. and sometimes won't start for 2 days. Then... when it wants it starts... and runs ... till once again randomly dies. Thoughts?
What does the test light do on the coil like i showed in this video? Should have a steady light on the middle wire and a pulsing light on the other two coil primary wires. Tell me what you see and I can help. If you dont have an old school incandescent bulb test light, you can still find them for less than $20
Hi, question. My car has power at the yellow wires on the ignitor, looked for anything hooked up wrong, everything looks good. My coolant temperature gauge is pegged even with the car off. Leaning torwards computer
Now after more testing one of my input wires aren't showing voltage at the ignitor. I've got good varying voltage on one input but the other is dead. Ive ran a continuity test between the ignitor and ecu and have good link but no voltage. I've replaced the coil, ignitor, plugs, fuel filter, and cam/crank pos sensors. Still can only get spark on 2 cyls. Do you have any other insights? Thanks
My 06 Outback on cold days 30s F. With a cold engine I have no spark. I haven rpm on the scanner.. Using a timing light I found no spark, later today I'll scan to look at the cam sensor, also will check wire connector at coil for readings. Have tried different after market coils. Here's a kicker, hook a jump box to it ,fires right up. Battery is new, test good, vehicle passes voltage drop test as well, and cranks with several rpm. ???
@@ScannerDanner Just checked it back probed 11.3 ish. But it fired right up of course. Will check again in morning, sure it won't fire then. Little back ground. Spent amost 30yrs as a heavy truck tech. Few years back started developing cognitive issues. I mentally hit a wall pretty easy now, I hate it. But I'm broke so I have to fix it myself. Bought it with slapped valves out of a field. It's a manual the only reason. Thanks for your help and time, and listening to me babble. I'll update you. And cam sensor reads fine.
@@JonathanWhoever awesome, love to help those who can help themselves, ill make it a point to reply. I'm sure we can do this together. One other thing, I rather you test for spark using something other than a timing light. That test is suspect. But if you're 100% positive you are losing spark, we will stay on this path for a bit. I want you to also check for injector pulse when it doesn't start. Do you have an incandescent test light?
@@ScannerDanner wow. Thank you. I'll pick a test light. While testing fuel pressure it did load up the cyclinders while the ignition was disabled, smelled bad when I finally started it. But I will dive deeper into that. What do I need? Those noid lights things? And I just subscribed.
My coil shows resistance of 2.7 ohms on both primary negative pins. Factory spec is 0.7ohms . Secondary are around 23 (Diamond coil pack) so it is between the range. Car shows a random misfire, check engine lights comes on and off and when it os off car runs great. Do you think my coil pack is bad?
Resistance checks on coils are not accurate. When they measure bad, it's bad, but when they measure good, it can still be bad. Not a good enough test for the coil
So if I'm missing control signal on 1 wire coming from the ecu to the igniter and I have good spark on one half of the coil is it fair to say it's ether the wire from the ecu to the igniter or the ecu it self.
ScannerDanner OK. So dumb butt me touched my led to the t pinned coil on my 4.6 Ford and the test light started smoking, engine running, and I immediately removed the tip from the tpin. The engine missed for a few seconds and then ran smooth since then. Does the driver have an current overload protection built in or was I just lucky although stupid. Minus this dunce move I wanted to say thank you as I recently passed my A6 and A8 ASE's. God bless you my brother and thanks for all the great training.
Robert Wood sounds like you smoked your test light and grounded the coil momentarily which caused your misfire. No danger to the driver as it is a low side driver anyway.
Robert Wood oh and awesome job on the ASE tests! Would you mind posting that you passed your ASE tests on here? www.scannerdanner.com/customer/feedback#add-comment
To be clear, are you talking about the coil primary winding itself or the transistor base circuit that is responsible for switching the primary circuit on and off?
ScannerDanner : Boy You sure know how to get technical. I guess that’s why you’re called “ Scannerdanner”. I appreciate you replying quickly. I’m just a backyard mechanic bye the way. But I guess I need know for the both circuits. Thank you for posting your videos. I really enjoy watching them and learning from you way out here in Monterey Park California. An incorporated city in Los Angeles County.
@@louiemunoz2753 I'm sorry my friend. I can definitely still teach you. Watch this video th-cam.com/video/_Ijhi7ai1HY/w-d-xo.html Then also tell me what type of ignition coil you are trying to test. Year, make, model, engine size would help. Also, is it a distributor engine with one single coil? A waste spark design where one coil is firing two cylinders or a coil on plug where there is an individual coil for every cylinder?
Would this work the same on a wasted spark without an igniter like on a EJ251/EJ201 I have no spark I have + and - and 2 to 2.5 volts on the ecu feeds but no spark
Why is there no power feed to the igniter? If no power feed is needed because it only contains transistors, how would it be able to go into a current limiting mode?
scannerdanner, I am getting one pulse from the yellow/blue ignitor control wire while, and normal steady pulses from the yellow/violet wire. What do you suggest I do from here?
paul i had 2005 ford escape 3.0 it has ignition coil 1 circuit malfunction.. i pull the intake off and the no.1 coil has a crack so i change all spark plug a 1 coil and i still have ignition coil 1 circuit malfunction.. beside the intake i found a connector for coil and injector, so i did the same test with test light on (-) and the light stay lit then i did same test at pcm and the light stay lit.. so is this a clearly bad pcm driver?? or there still something i need to consdier
Hey, I ran this test on my '93 Legacy and I do not get any lights on the negative controls on the coil pack. The yellow feed (on coil pack) only lights when the key is turned on for the first time. During cranking the yellow feed wire light shuts off and will not come back on unless I turn the key off and back on again. On the igniter the negative controls are lit up and do not turn off or flicker. Any idea what the problem could be?
If it is this design, as shown in the video. This video will answer all your question. th-cam.com/video/LdnnFD6J8Uo/w-d-xo.html In short, power is supplied through the coil primary winding and is grounded by the igniter. With a test light, your igniter control wires will show "hot" but it really isn't a power feed. It is a ground side switched circuit that doesn't have a ground yet. Watch that video, then we'll talk.
Want more training on this system? Maybe some questions on the tests I've shown? Watch this!! th-cam.com/video/LdnnFD6J8Uo/w-d-xo.html
Dear scannerDanner.
My friend has a 2009 subaroo impreza non turbo.
Randomly it will stall at lower Rpm... and sometimes it will start..within 10 min or so ... and sometimes it will not start for days. (No spark)
No codes... no lights zero insight of what it can be ...
And once it decides to start... it's and if it has no issues...
Have you come accross this issue ??
@@lukek6492 no I have not. But you need to find out what you are missing when it is not starting. The window is there for you to do testing.
The automotive industry sometimes takes some knocks but the critics should see what I see here. A man who helps his fellow technicians by sharing knowledge and utilizing a well developed ability to teach and inspire critical analysis of automotive systems. Its also revealing that although some of these cars are [ pre OBD 2 ] configuration, They are somewhat complicated and requires in depth reflection about the design and function of the system. THANK YOU and your class attendees.
Man, can never thank you enough for all that your teaching has done for me. I'll spare the autobiography but just know that you have quite literally saved my life. I consider me accidentally clicking on one of your videos a couple years back as an act of God. Stay blessed brother!
This comment just brought me to tears 😢
I'd love to hear your story! God has blessed me so much, and to give back in this way means everything to me.
any time, and thank you. I promise you will not be disappointed in my ebook. I have not had 1 negative comment about its content and usefulness
I've used the mt2400 vantage for 15+ years. highly recommended first scope (not really a scope but has scoping capabilities)
Ahhh, the old Vantage, what a great tool in it's time and still useful today! I learned a lot of what I know with the original Vantage.
I want to thank you for being thorough in your search and showing every different way to check for a spark! I dont have a suburu but have looked at many videos that were not thorough and caused me problems, by far the best video! Thankyou😀
+Ian Hutchins Thank you so much! I have many more just like this. I appreciate you watching.
Thank you ScannerDanner, this is the best auto channel on youtube. Someone who knows more than I do! Keep the vids coming!
Maestro level old school skills in action. You gotta love it!
That test would work here too. Don't remember if it was a pull up design or not but either way, even if it was a pull-down, it would still work with the correct polarity on your test light.
I was actually skeptical with the test light test. But then he confirmed it with an amp draw test... Nice
Yes it does. It is fully functional, you just can't graph PIDs with it.
This video was wickedly informative, well done, and thanks a lot! I love the follow through at the end showing what correct results should be, and solid explanations of the theory behind what you're doing.
just how they stored info in the old days :-)
still a great scanner
97 Subaru IMP with 1.8 ecu/sensors and a 2.2 longblock that ran for 5+ years until i washed the motor in Feb of this year, Next day it started running rough, then wouldn't even start. i found your video which pointed me towords the ignitor, which i replaced.
@LordValguard Of course you can, and in this case with a control problem you would have a two cylinder misfire.
Excellent video! I was very glad you covered the unlikely hood of both coils failing, but as you probably know it can. Also why not R&R those electricals in the circuit path? Especially on a 95 ? I understand it will probably run fine for ever now, but if the cost isn't insane, why not two new coils as well? You did an excellent job!
aneyesky Why would you replace something that works?! Don't even watch his videos just replace everything!
Gregory May good point,but that's why I said if the cost isn't too high.
aneyesky
Well whole car is VERY old and with this approach you would have to replace whole bunch of parts;) The cost will be high. It is always your hard earned money and there is no point spending it on something that you don't need. Don't worry tomorrow something else will brake on this car;) I used to do the same because I love cars but cars are just cars... They must serve you not you them.
I agree, the ohm test is not good for testing coils. You need to stress them and view the pattern with a scope to truly know if the coil is good or not. My class is 8 weeks long and our entire associate degree automotive program is 16 months. If you want more info on our school fill out your name and email on my website and I will forward your info to one of our admissions representatives. Thanks!
@foxholewilly From my experience even a good coil will not produce a spark doing that. So I have to say a scope is necessary although if the primary is completely shorted an ohm test should show it too but this is not 100% accurate either. Thanks for the compliment too!
Just bought a MT 2400 and love it. I have a question about the MT 2500. What is the difference in the primary cartridge and the troubleshooter cartridges. Thank you and love this video. God bless
Great vid SD! 1min 51 sec in where u r back probing the coil feed wire with the test light, is it connected to ground and when u jumped over to control wires did u keep the test light connected to the same polarity when testing the feed wire? Great content as always, learning a lot from both this channel & Ur premium channel. For $11 words cannot express how great of a deal for the knowledge being passed down!
Nice to see someone wrenching with a brain !! Keep learning
Gonna try this out on my 2000 subaru outback, thanks for being very detailed
here you go
search this video name "VRS Bypass Testing" this is how I test them most of the time. There are other ways of course and my next bad one I'll be sure to scope test it for you.
Another one to watch is "ABS Wheel Speed Sensor Testing", this is basically the same as a pick up coil.
Cuddos to the man that, in this day and age, still uses a test ligh.
Yes but you must disconnect it from the computer and igniter first.as for the cam and crank a voltage test is not enough you need to see the waveform
Somebody has a Katy Perry ringtone on their phone. Paul, I literally just purchased a M2400 that was used twice(according to the description) It even has the original warranty paperwork...of course it is by far outdated. We will see how it turns out. God bless brother
Lol I promise that was not my phone.
@MrGingaman if your using a multimeter a 2 volt average during a crank would be normal. remember the dmm will average the on off square wave signal. i am assuming you have no spark? take a test light to battery positive with key on and touch the ecu to igniter control wire on and off. it should fire the coil. let me know result
Thank you very much! I liked the "wickedly" part, not sure I ever heard that one :-)
Of course I use diagrams all the time but I didn't need one on this system. There are so many similarities with these circuits that over time you don't need a diagram to troubleshoot it. Even if it is your first time on a particular system.
Yes, I have considered a DC voltage supply circuit, actually I have an idea to make one :-)
Yes same set up as the video. I've replaced the cam/crank sensors, wondering if I maybe I messed up the sender on the cam?
Another great video broski👍🏽
Good Evening ScannerDanner 🙏 ✨ Have a great day 👍 Take care 👍 God bless you ScannerDanner 👍
Great tutorial thank you 👍
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
lol I swear that wasn't my phone. It was the guy standing next to me. That is funny, I am surprised it took this long for someone to comment on that. :-)
Great Video Paul as always. One question - is the igniter ground on this Subaru supplied by the PCM?
no, the igniter ground is connected to the block. there isn't even a power feed for this particular design, just basically two transistors mounted in one housing being controlled on the base circuit by the PCM.
not sure. always tough to call a bad computer. so many variables. you really need a scope at this point to verify cam and crank signals and also that PCM to igniter control wire. You sure that wire has no opens or shorts to ground. I know you said it had continuity but did you check it for a short to ground
A VERY helpful video. Thank you so much for this!!!!!!!!
Super helpful. Thanks for the great video!!
Great video! Wish i had found this a week ago!
Thank you ScannerDanner
I fixed my 92 sc400 that I love. With your info,
No spark. No start
Found it was crankshaft position sensor,
Thank again
Hope I can be of assistance, I will get your e book
Regards
Mcc
Australia
so is it coil negative that is reading low voltage or is it the ecm to igniter signal that you are referring to
Good video and revision to include more testing.
Love this one keep up the good work
Outstanding, very well done and very thourough. Subscribed
Thank you!
Hi thanks for excellent and detailed videos.Could you please clarify if we didn't have a wiring diagram and we didn't know which wire was which i.e. which wire was signal, control or feed. How Safe it would be to perform all the tests you have done with a test light both at coil and ignitor, without cooking the main PCM.
I believe I showed what happens to the signal wires when a test light was connected. It pulled them to ground, so not a really good thing to do in my opinion. You really need to know what circuits you are connecting to especially when using a test light.
Yes it is discontinued, I think version 8.0 is the last update for the Mt2400. I stopped updating mine at version 6.0
I am not sure if you can still get one through Snap-On. Try ebay?
Great video mr danner, just one question, for this entire test you keep the test connected to ground? Thank you and cheers from ontario ca.
Yes, I believe so
Is it the exact same wiring on the igniter as in this video?
If so before calling a bad computer you have to make sure you do not have a cam or crank sensor problem. Washing the engine bay should not have hurt the computer that lives inside of the car. I am worried about a messed up crank or cam signal
Very good video.
Well done
Great video!!!!!! Im just curios that in this design how that ignition module does not receive a power feed to work, only a ground, I guest that is only a couple of transistors inside that case
That is correct
nice ringtone Paul 😂😂 Great vid!
@nesgael1 Thank you so much for your kind words. It is much appreciated.
Hey Paul:
Before you went on this job, would you have looked at the wiring schematic for this particular car? Or, are you just able to deduce which wire is functioning as control, signal, "pull-up";or "pull-down", through the PCM, ignitor and coils of this particular waste-spark system. My suspicion is that you have gotten so good you just know.
Ever considered getting a variable DC voltage supply for back-feeding low voltage digital circuits and components?
Your thoughts??
Yea dude, very nice. Could you perform a test like this if your getting a miss-fire code?
Awesome channel dude. what brand is the test light Paul? i dig the coily cable.
Hi Dan thanks for the videos! I have some questions on what was shown here.
Amp Probe Test - placed probe around YEL feed wire to the Ignition Coils. No current observed. How is this possible when the Test Light was steady ON earlier in the video?
Test Light was used to check for current at both ends of the control wires to the Ignition Coil but can't be used to check for current to the ECU?
Question on back-probing. Will I be trying to insert the pin along the wire till it hits the bare wire inside the plug or am I trying to pierce the plastic jacket?
I'm going to try adapting these techniques for checking my 92 Honda Accord's igniter. I have checked for voltage on 2 wires like my manual says to do, but I did that by disconnecting them and checking voltage with the ignition set to ON. I'm going to see if I can back probe them and check for voltage that way as well. I will also check for pulsing on the YEL/GRN wire from the ECU with my normal DVM by back-probing.
+AJFresh This video is exactly what you're looking for. th-cam.com/video/LdnnFD6J8Uo/w-d-xo.html
I am giving a step by step guide with my class on what tests I performed on this Subaru and why.
Let me know what you think. Thanks!
Don't pierce the plastic jacket, you are running the pin along the wire until it touches the terminal inside.
Remember when you are testing for pulsing from the ECM (on your Honda) using a DMM, that you will be reading an average of the pulses.
Also, you can check for injector pulse, which will provide you some direction as well.
Thank you so much! I will be reviewing this video tonight
Hi, I saw the case study you posted on the GM igniter bypass, Re: switches etc. The tests in this case seem pretty conclusive, however could we for instance place a intermittent voltage to the igniter at the terminals that come from the ECU, via a test light? assuming that the circuit is a pull up design? Thanks, Chris. P.S great instructional presentations.
Excellent job.
Should i take out my efi relay while doing this? And can I still read the signal from the ecu to the coil if I unplug it from the coil cuz I cant seem to stab a t pin into the two green cables.. Thanks very useful video!!
not if it is a no start condition. you never want to disable anything when troubleshooting an actual problem.
hey man great vid helped a bit .. but still have a problem ,
i changed a 250t with a ej20 swapped crank angle sensors, pulleys ,intake manafold , wiring harness . wont start no spark , the ecu sends a signal to the igniter pack but is less than 2 is this a problem with the ecu? tested all wires 2 times all good.
would be epic if you could help
cheers
Can I use the Scope to check the ignitor on my 1980 Toyota Corolla 1.8 ? Which wires should I connect to ? Thanks brother.
disconnect the ignitor trigger wire from ignitor and ecu and check for ground?
then hook up the scope to cam/crank sensors directly or thru the harness?
@CHIBA280CRV No problem and thank you!
Awesome video! thanks for information.
+2003wrx64 thanks for watching!
Great video exceptional I am going to do this now.
Do you also have a video for 1996 subaru legacy wagon 2.2 camshaft and crankshaft sensor testing? Testing to make sure that they are good and not wasting my money to buy parts when not needed. I'd watch other videos about checking camshaft and crankshaft sensor..Mr. Paul I like your videos.
You'll find them in my chapter 21 playlist. Are they 3 wire or 2 wire sensors?
Not specifically the Legacy 2.2 , at least I dont think, but certainly I have info on both 3 wire hall effect type and 2 wire magnetic pulse generator types of sensors and how to test them.
2 wire sensor for both camshaft and crankshaft sensor. heading out again for a 2 hour drive. My , the other brother in law finally had the battery check and charge, and I can't check the Ignitor because we had tooled off the timing belt and other belts for me to test...1 is mecchanilly incline and the other is Lazy.
Is there are particular kind of test light you need to be using to do these tests? I've noticed you use two different test lights in your videos.. the clear one is this video and a red one in others. Would a logic probe or a power probe work too?
Thanks for this info. I will check it out for my car. But not finding an ignitor at any of the parts places for my 2001 Subaru Legacy L. I also don't have a schematic to help diagnose. I own both a Haynes and Chilton manual (same frkn manual these days) and both have schematics, but none of the schematics include the ignition system! And the text part of the manual does not mention an ignitor. They show similar tests to what you are showing for the coil, but they say nothing about an ignitor. Did they integrate that function into the main computer for that year... or are they just neglecting to talk about the ignitor. Again... no such part showing in ignition parts lists for that car at my local parts distributor.
Mitchell or Shop Key (same diagram) There is a DIY version where you can buy access for a small period of time for your car. www.scannerdanner.com/forum/post-your-repair-questions-here/16-need-service-info-check-here.html
Your system has the igniter built into the ignition coil. There are 4 wires, 1 power, 1 ground and 2 separate computer control wires. These are low voltage trigger signals from the ECM to the igniter.
Mr. Danner I have a question regarding the input signal to the module, if somebody had one of those cheapy scan tools with live data capability, would looking for a rpm signal from that scan tool tell you if the module is receiving an input from the computer or that's not a fullproof test? Which also reminds me of a video you and Eric the car guy did on a Ford pickup truck, if you remember that thing had a bad distributor pick up. So there would have not been an rpm signal if there was a scan tool hooked up to it right?
On the control wire of the igniter can you use a power probe 4 (driver mode) for that test instead of scope ?
Possibly
Hmm, I don't think theres a short to ground in the wire, can I check that by continuity of the dead wire to straight ground?
Unfourtunatly I don't have easy access to a scope but I do have access to a good fluke multimeter that I've been using. Can I just test the wires coming out of the cam/crank sensors for rolling voltage like I did with the ignitor?
At the 25 second mark, you held the tip of the test light near the coil. How did you know that the side you were testing was the side where the spark comes out of the coil and not the side where the spark returns to the coil through the spark plug wire?
MBS spark comes out of both sides. 2 of the 4 plug wires are removed to check for spark
I've been thinking about buying a scope as I stated in a different comment on your video. I think I may buy a mt2400 since they are much more affordable than the newer SnapOn scopes. I don't have much experience with the model, what are your experiences like with the mt2400? Or do you have any other recommendations?
great video, Question. Tired the test light for spark, no spark on either coil. Checked the center power wire feed at 1:29, seems to pulse like the coil negatives which both work.
With the power feed flickering, what might be wrong?
+peter shaw this is usually from a weak battery during cranking. If both control wires and the feed wire look the same (the pulse you are describing), then you have no control. Follow the procedure as outlined in this video. Make sense?
Thanks dude, this is very informative since I am a newbee to this stuff. My daughter's 2007 Suby forester cranks but is misfiring and then shuts off. What can be wrong ?
triumphmanful coil pack id say bad Spark plugs
For sure, me too!
Hi, in this video, IGNITER have 2 control wire coming from ECU , one wire for steady ground and 2 wire going to DIS one for each coil, what i didnot see in IGNITER was power to the igniter. I thought IGNITER will always have power and Ground in addition to this control wire, Am i wrong?. Please advise, I also heard that IGNTIER will amplify the 3v in control signal to 12v, if so will not IGNTIER need 12v power , please share your expirience
Nice Information dude, I don't have those tools , what the hell going to replace that unit..replace the knock sensor, Iac, coil,, wires and plugs.check the belt for TDC.. WAtching other videos and showing me the camshaft and the crankshaft sensor...I'm on my Mother inlaw subaru for 3 weeks now.
just go buy an cheap $10 test light with an incandescent style bulb (regular bulb, NO LED light) and follow my test light procedures.
how many wires go to each coil? 2, 3 or 4?
Hi Paul, just a question you may know does snap on stop making memory card for mt2400 vantage? if they does how can I get like version 6.0?..
Would i be able to unplug the igniter and test it at the connector for signal from the pcm while cranking?
what is the year make model and engine, I need to check a diagram
Hi.
Subaru.. same engine.
Car sometimes dies at lower rpm as you are driving.
After it dies... it cranks.. but no spark.
No codes..
Then randomly it will start after a hour ..or so. and sometimes won't start for 2 days.
Then... when it wants it starts... and runs ... till once again randomly dies.
Thoughts?
What does the test light do on the coil like i showed in this video? Should have a steady light on the middle wire and a pulsing light on the other two coil primary wires. Tell me what you see and I can help.
If you dont have an old school incandescent bulb test light, you can still find them for less than $20
Great video help me put all
Hi, question. My car has power at the yellow wires on the ignitor, looked for anything hooked up wrong, everything looks good. My coolant temperature gauge is pegged even with the car off. Leaning torwards computer
No 12v feed on this design as this igniter does NO "thinking" on its own. It is simply two different transistors. One for each coil.
Now after more testing one of my input wires aren't showing voltage at the ignitor. I've got good varying voltage on one input but the other is dead. Ive ran a continuity test between the ignitor and ecu and have good link but no voltage. I've replaced the coil, ignitor, plugs, fuel filter, and cam/crank pos sensors. Still can only get spark on 2 cyls. Do you have any other insights? Thanks
My 06 Outback on cold days 30s F. With a cold engine I have no spark. I haven rpm on the scanner.. Using a timing light I found no spark, later today I'll scan to look at the cam sensor, also will check wire connector at coil for readings. Have tried different after market coils.
Here's a kicker, hook a jump box to it ,fires right up. Battery is new, test good, vehicle passes voltage drop test as well, and cranks with several rpm.
???
Step 1, what is coil + voltage during cranking when it is not starting?
@@ScannerDanner Just checked it back probed 11.3 ish. But it fired right up of course. Will check again in morning, sure it won't fire then.
Little back ground. Spent amost 30yrs as a heavy truck tech. Few years back started developing cognitive issues. I mentally hit a wall pretty easy now, I hate it. But I'm broke so I have to fix it myself. Bought it with slapped valves out of a field. It's a manual the only reason.
Thanks for your help and time, and listening to me babble.
I'll update you.
And cam sensor reads fine.
@@JonathanWhoever awesome, love to help those who can help themselves, ill make it a point to reply. I'm sure we can do this together.
One other thing, I rather you test for spark using something other than a timing light. That test is suspect. But if you're 100% positive you are losing spark, we will stay on this path for a bit. I want you to also check for injector pulse when it doesn't start. Do you have an incandescent test light?
@@ScannerDanner wow. Thank you. I'll pick a test light.
While testing fuel pressure it did load up the cyclinders while the ignition was disabled, smelled bad when I finally started it. But I will dive deeper into that. What do I need? Those noid lights things?
And I just subscribed.
@@JonathanWhoever just get a test light like I'm using. We can roll from there. Make sure you get the old school incandescent type, NO LEDs!
Does the Snap On MT2500 scan tool have bi directional capabilities ? Thanks
My coil shows resistance of 2.7 ohms on both primary negative pins. Factory spec is 0.7ohms . Secondary are around 23 (Diamond coil pack) so it is between the range. Car shows a random misfire, check engine lights comes on and off and when it os off car runs great. Do you think my coil pack is bad?
Resistance checks on coils are not accurate. When they measure bad, it's bad, but when they measure good, it can still be bad. Not a good enough test for the coil
hi paul... what camera you use to record this videos?
So if I'm missing control signal on 1 wire coming from the ecu to the igniter and I have good spark on one half of the coil is it fair to say it's ether the wire from the ecu to the igniter or the ecu it self.
Or the igniter transistor is shorted pulling the ECM control signal to ground. Disconnect the igniter and test it again.
Can I test Ford COP coil control with a LED test light ? Thanks brother
Robert Wood with the coil unplugged only!
ScannerDanner OK. So dumb butt me touched my led to the t pinned coil on my 4.6 Ford and the test light started smoking, engine running, and I immediately removed the tip from the tpin. The engine missed for a few seconds and then ran smooth since then. Does the driver have an current overload protection built in or was I just lucky although stupid. Minus this dunce move I wanted to say thank you as I recently passed my A6 and A8 ASE's. God bless you my brother and thanks for all the great training.
Robert Wood sounds like you smoked your test light and grounded the coil momentarily which caused your misfire. No danger to the driver as it is a low side driver anyway.
Robert Wood oh and awesome job on the ASE tests! Would you mind posting that you passed your ASE tests on here? www.scannerdanner.com/customer/feedback#add-comment
ScannerDanner Sure thing brother. And thanks again for all you do and the quick reply.
Is 2 volts enough power to control the coil or igniter ? I thought you usually need at least 5 volts?
To be clear, are you talking about the coil primary winding itself or the transistor base circuit that is responsible for switching the primary circuit on and off?
ScannerDanner : Boy You sure know how to get technical. I guess that’s why you’re called “ Scannerdanner”. I appreciate you replying quickly. I’m just a backyard mechanic bye the way. But I guess I need know for the both circuits. Thank you for posting your videos. I really enjoy watching them and learning from you way out here in Monterey Park California. An incorporated city in Los Angeles County.
@@louiemunoz2753 I'm sorry my friend. I can definitely still teach you. Watch this video th-cam.com/video/_Ijhi7ai1HY/w-d-xo.html
Then also tell me what type of ignition coil you are trying to test. Year, make, model, engine size would help.
Also, is it a distributor engine with one single coil? A waste spark design where one coil is firing two cylinders or a coil on plug where there is an individual coil for every cylinder?
Would this work the same on a wasted spark without an igniter like on a EJ251/EJ201 I have no spark I have + and - and 2 to 2.5 volts on the ecu feeds but no spark
need year, make, model, engine size in liters please
Why is there no power feed to the igniter? If no power feed is needed because it only contains transistors, how would it be able to go into a current limiting mode?
scannerdanner,
I am getting one pulse from the yellow/blue ignitor control wire while, and normal steady pulses from the yellow/violet wire. What do you suggest I do from here?
+Adam Alsnayyan do you have spark on either coil?
paul i had 2005 ford escape 3.0 it has ignition coil 1 circuit malfunction.. i pull the intake off and the no.1 coil has a crack so i change all spark plug a 1 coil and i still have ignition coil 1 circuit malfunction.. beside the intake i found a connector for coil and injector, so i did the same test with test light on (-) and the light stay lit then i did same test at pcm and the light stay lit.. so is this a clearly bad pcm driver?? or there still something i need to consdier
Hey,
I ran this test on my '93 Legacy and I do not get any lights on the negative controls on the coil pack. The yellow feed (on coil pack) only lights when the key is turned on for the first time. During cranking the yellow feed wire light shuts off and will not come back on unless I turn the key off and back on again. On the igniter the negative controls are lit up and do not turn off or flicker. Any idea what the problem could be?
Jim Hendricks Post this question on my Forum at www.scannerdanner.com
I'll help you over there.
Thanks!
when I test my harnesses from the ignitor to coil should my control wires show to be ground out..? or be positive?
If it is this design, as shown in the video. This video will answer all your question.
th-cam.com/video/LdnnFD6J8Uo/w-d-xo.html
In short, power is supplied through the coil primary winding and is grounded by the igniter. With a test light, your igniter control wires will show "hot" but it really isn't a power feed. It is a ground side switched circuit that doesn't have a ground yet. Watch that video, then we'll talk.