Full Preterism is the ULTIMATE rationalization
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Full Preterism is the ULTIMATE rationalization
Full Preterist eschatology is the ultimate exercise in rationalization. By interpreting passages through a highly selective and convoluted lens, adherents attempt to salvage the prophecy of Jesus from being labeled a failure. However, the cognitive dissonance required to maintain such a belief is staggering. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, while insisting that it was always meant to be that way. But perhaps the most telling aspect of Full Preterist eschatology is the lengths to which its proponents will go to protect their belief system. Even when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they will twist and turn the scripture until it conforms to their worldview. It's a remarkable display of mental gymnastics, but ultimately one that falls short of convincing anyone except the most die-hard believers.
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#Preterism #mythvision #MythVisionPodcast #mvp #dereklambert
Correction! Glenn Hill is still alive, I'm not sure where I heard this. I may have conflated a person who had died when I was at Michael Miano's church 9 years ago.
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Second, we want to test the claims of truth through the test of rationality. Is it logically consistent, or does it speak with a “forked tongue”? We examine the content of Scripture to see if it is coherent. That’s another test of truth. One of the most astonishing things, of course, is that the Bible has literally thousands of testable historical prophecies, cases in which events were clearly foretold, and both the foretelling and the fulfillment are a matter of historical record. The very dimension of the sheer fulfillment of prophecy of the Old Testament Scriptures should be enough to convince anyone that we are dealing with a supernatural piece of literature.
Derek! From a ex christian view what’s your thoughts on the saying once saved always saved? I’m not a christian I’m just curious.
@@caleb10099 Well I’m not a universalist John 3.16f John 11:25-26.
And I do not believe once saved always saved and that is a personal decision in one’s life how they walk with God and between them and God.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
Attention all sheep Jesus power warning it is intense last 30 minutes ❤
Explaining the Bible the Greek way is a classic mistake.
For those interested, I reached out to Derek this morning asking him to set up a debate between Mr. Hartke and myself. Derek did contact Hartke but he said he was not interested in debating me, since it would be a "no win" situation for him.
Well, I fully agree that he would lose such a debate, but I find it unfortunate that he is unwilling to engage in a debate after coming online and mocking, ridiculing and condemning preterism.
Don, I encourage you to kindly press the issue, as a respectful dialogoue on the topic would do tremendous good for skeptics and believers alike... In Christ my brother
Many like Hartke online Hit and Run.
@@OobucknutoO You might contact Derek and ask him to urge Mr. Harkte a bit more. After watching some more of that program, I assuredly would love an exchange!!
I second this. I also found their arguments muddled - some applied to FP-specific concepts, but others conflated FP concepts with simple Biblical concepts, such as the meaning of death in Genesis (it’s not FP’s who “redefined” it - simply look at St. Paul and Christ himself). Overall it was a sloppy presentation and I think a debate would give them an opportunity to clarify their arguments, so it would be win-win.
@@ResisttheNWO He’s had some good guests who specialize in Nag Hammadi scholarship, which is of interest to me. But I think he might do better to slow down and let them speak more because his own conclusions tend to be sort of shallow and poorly supported. For all I know he’s a genius and just isn’t the most articulate in front of a camera - I kind of stutter on camera myself. I’m not going to bash the guy, I appreciate what he’s doing. We’re all critics! At any rate I value this channel mostly for his guests but he’s on a journey and I don’t fault him for sharing where he’s at. It was the “Gnostic” Gospels that sparked my interest in Christianity, and less orthodox outlets like this were more comfortable for me at that point in my journey - God works in mysterious ways, and surely He’s at work here too!
"this generation shall not pass till all these things take place" ....these were the people he was talking to not the people 2000 years later.
Exactly. And Revelation was written for the 7 churches in Asia at the time. Heck, it even says so in Chapter 1 of Revelation!
yes sir and since the churches are gone would suggest Jesus did return, and saving twelve thousand from each tribe of Israel would be impossible today. NERO was likely antichrist and revelations was written in 60's not 90's.@@openingshift7070
The genea he was referring to has still not passed awsy. Genea =
fathered, birth, nativity
that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy
metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character
esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation
the whole multitude of men living at the same time
an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years
@@paulthomson8798 40 years is widely excepted as a generation.....within that time the things Jesus said took place, it seems Babylon the great was ancient Jerusalem and the temple....it only took a generation from when he said that to the time no stone was left unturned on that temple.....Josephus Flavius wrote about those things, listen to his account of the fall of Jerusalem.....amazing
@@paulthomson8798 You just proved his proof. (You ALWAYS finds ways to lie)
2020 started me on the journey of self reflection and determination of my beliefs; not my parent's beliefs, nor society's beliefs. It has been a 3 year unraveling of a Christian lifetime of 73 years. Your channel, books, and other channels on deconstruction have been so helpful to my application of critical thinking skills to the Bible and the history of mythology, gods, and cultural viewpoints. Thank you for your channel. It helps to open my mind.
It’s so fascinating that this type of content unravels Christian faith for some. Buddhism, Gnosticism, esoterica, that was what eventually led me to Christianity and then the Bible led me to Catholicism. It seems many folks have the reverse experience! Thanks for sharing. God bless you on your journey
@workmansong
How could the Bible possibly lead you to Catholicism since many of the important Catholic doctrines are not even biblical?
I have had to do the same thing, but it freeing
This!!! 2020 did it for me too… It was like my eyes really open for the first time in nearly 40 years!😮
Derek, "Jerusalem ruled Jack-diddly-squat." I hope I have the opportunity to use that quote in casual conversation.
These two look like they stepped directly out of the pages of the latest edition of “Beards and Flannel”.
🤤 🥵
And that's a problem?
You know who else dresses like that? Lumberjacks.
😂
Mmmmmmm yummy.
When Jesus come back where will he go first?🤷🏽♂️😜
6:40 How can you say that Jerusalem was not Babylon? That's the most obvious piece in the puzzle!
💯 Jerusalem is mystery Babylon revealed According to multiple scriptures from the old testament and the new testament. The Dragon the whore road on was Rome , the Pharisees told Pilate that they had no King but Ceasar ( God was supposed to be their King ). Daniel 9 points to the end of sin , after the son of man would die when the temple was destroyed that scripture was fulfilled in that moment because without a temple no offerings for sin could be made. People will turn on you real quick for showing them this at least most Christians and say your anti semitic. Manipulation is a tool religious folks like to use all the time no surprise.
@@generalgen1542 Amen.
Derek and his guest are against Full Preterism and that's why they try to claim Rome is the Beast as well the Woman that rides the Beast. Crazy way to interpret that scripture.
Usa. Is Babylon if isreal is babylon of which is destroyed in one hour during the tribulation. how is it nations gather to destroy them. Are y'all Jehovah witness? Meaning what bible are ya referencing?
@@rogerbeck3560 you got it, they don't want to be honest because they see how powerful the correct interpretation of scriptures is. They also cater to the Jewish crowd and won't declare the truth of first century Jerusalem's and Israel's depravity and judgment.
You two would legitimately experience cognitive dissonance if you tried to believe Preterist ideas, because they don’t fit with the cognitive framework you already have in place. But for people for whom Preterism was their first theological framework, assuming it’s a version that is internally coherent, they will not feel cognitive dissonance because they are willing to adapt to what they learn.
Although, note, that intellectual growth probably always involves cognitive dissonance as new information comes in, which we trust, but it doesn’t fit our prior mental model, and so we must do rational intellectual work to resolve the contradiction. It’s called being human.
Cognitive dissonance is not the problem; how you deal with it is the real issue.
Could you talk with an expert about the chariots in the skies that Josephus, taccidus, and multiple other historians mention? Ive heard it brought up in regard to preterism.
He has nothing.
Derek @ you might not reply to this , but if what you claim that the Whore, Great city Babylon is to be understood as Rome just how does that work when your reference was of the Beast seven heads as the seven hills of Rome.
You mean to tell me that the Beast and the ten kings hated the Whore and eat her and sat her on fire. So Rome destroyed Rome ? 😮
I don't see the logic in that interpretation. Help me out.
Oc israel
Regarding Adam, and the death he died that day, why would the author write in such a way as to present a failed prophecy? It is more logical to assume the author did not intend to define death the same way we do. Based on the culture, I would tie the death to their shame and honor society. The scripture is replete with examples of sin equating to relational or covenantal death. The story of the Prodigal son, for example. "My son was dead and is alive again".
And also genocide. Those people got turned into dead and it had nothing to do with social death. It was, y'know, genocide.
We learned that a day for the Lord is as a 1000 years. So when he said they would die that day, they did. Neither of them lived till 1000 years old. Yet they both got very close.
Surely, to be cast out from the supernatural presence of a Father God who loves and provides for us, and into the physical world of laboring for our needs and struggling to survive, not to mention all the suffering -- would very well be considered "death"?!
@vladgor4099 no where in scripture are we told or even implied that this is a 'Formula for the Interpretation of Prophetic Time'. Yet, so many people have adopted this methodology which doesn't make sense when you stay consistent with it = because now you have Jesus being in the grave for 3000yrs!...🤨
@@ShadowofTheAlmighty No, don’t put words in my mouth.
You can understand the meaning of the words by the outcome. Adam and Eve did not die that same human day. But they did die that same Gods day. So we can understand what was meant wasn’t a human day.
Jesus died and was dead for 3 human days and rose on the third day. So we can understand what was meant.
I’m not sure why you’re trying to make this confusing lol Scripture explains scripture and it’s very simple.
I so thought you 2 were in 2 different locations until he just took those books from you😂
Didn't get past the intro, sorry if you got there later. Genesis "would not die" means that people would live forever. Original sin made humans actually mortal. They died, God didn't say "die immediately".
Genesis 2:17 says "...and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die." (YLT)
מוֹת תָּמוּת
dying you die - that's what the Hebrew says, in warning.
(Nice comment, good sir)
@@AnHebrewChild days were really long in Genesis ;-)
@@AnHebrewChild The form of the Hebrew demands a death that very day. God did not say "You will become mortal./" He did not say "You will begin to die." He did not say you will die 900 years later.
We learned that a day for the Lord is as a 1000 years. So when he said they would die that day, they did. Neither of them lived till 1000 years old. Yet they both got very close.
@@AnHebrewChild We learned that a day for the Lord is as a 1000 years. So when he said they would die that day, they did. Neither of them lived till 1000 years old. Yet they both got very close.
I read the book of revelation and the war of judeans by joseph. There are so many similarities between these Brooks that it’s impossible to not see the accomplishment of the propheties contained in the book of the revelation and the apocalyptic chapters of the gospel. A full preterism make more sens in that frame work
Hey, tell me more please
Hey, Derek, set up a debate for me with Mr. Hartke. How about it???
I think he should have you on the channel and other Preterist, he's had a couple other Christians on.
As Derek gets out all these books on Full preterism his guest starts to look nervous. No sane person should have that many books on full preterism
LOL! Yeah, I saw it too. From thoroughly enjoying Derek's intro, to something of an "oh sht" kind of face.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"Full Preterism is the ULTIMATE rationalization." Really? Hard to get more hyperbolic than that.
Caveat emptor! This video is pretty shallow stuff. From what I've heard so far, this guest(?) obviously has a very minimal knowledge of preterism. Lots of misstatements and distortions from both guys.
MythVision, debate Don Preston face-to-face; don't just cherry-pick a few things you feel you can possibly, or, in your view, definitively undermine with selective refutations and then assert that as proof-positive negation of preterism. It's not an intellectually honest approach.
To be fair, Jerusalem was built on 7 hills as well.
Give me the primary source for this. Also, show me anywhere when Jerusalem ruled the kings of the earth?
Revelation 17
18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
Rome did rule over the kings of the earth.
@@MythVisionPodcast It’s common knowledge that Jerusalem is said to be built on 7 hills. There is a Wikipedia article called “List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills” which lists the names of those hills. As for Jerusalem ruling the earth, that’s a spiritual interpretation made by many who’ve studied Revelation. Jerusalem is where the temple was - it is the city where God resided. The book of Revelation is a revelation of the spiritual realm, not the physical realm. We don’t need a revelation of the physical realm - we can already see that ourselves.
The great city "WHERE OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED" = cannot be Rome!!!....🙄🤦♂️😮💨
The death God was talking about was spiritual death, which did occur the moment Adam and Eve sinned.
Context, context.
You can be physically alive while spiritually dead;
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-
They don’t want to hear that, it’s the truth and a threat to the lies the sell to make their income.
Full preterism-or hyperpreterism-is the belief that all prophecy in Scripture has already happened.
The only missing parts are names, dates and locations prior to the events and not added later.
Gotta start at the beginning: The Parousia by James Stewart Russell.
Bible frappe: building an argument from a dozen or more snippets taken from any books or verses that can be construed to support what youre saying.
This is the history of Christianity, and it never seems to end.
Why y’all scared to debate Don??? 🤔🤔🤔 You’d think if u were so confident to walk away from the truth then you’d be confident to debate your case
One problem with preterism is that DEATH is never defeated. Both spiritual and physical death continue for eternity
I like the role call of books that probably didn’t read.
Good talk, thanks for sharing. I think it's more important to familiarize ourselves with the text, than to try to interpret it's meaning. I believe a better approach would be to keep abreast of world events and persons involved, and keep an open mind about the actual fulfillment, rather than allowing any interpretation to become set in mind. Setting our mind on a particular topic, by deciding that prophetic fulfillment must be this way or that way, limits our ability to see the real deal when it really occurs. We would not be the first people to do that, it's blinded the minds of many who had it "all figured out." When things don't go the way we've been sure they would go, we start pushing dates back. Somehow, we can not comprehend what Scripture means when it reports that God says our thoughts are not His thoughts, best we can do is know the text and keep an eye on world events. Trust in Yahuah and Yahusha, His Annointed.
What a great show you guys!
Did you get the book titled: "House Divided; Bridging the Gap in Reformed Eschatology"? By David Green, Edward Hassertt, and Michael Sullivan. Second Edition.
Matt is awesome. Derek, if you ever need a break ask him to wear contacts and do some podcasting for you. Half of us won't spot the difference.
He is obviously correct about the best option for failed prophecies being hybrid reinterpretation with partial fulfillment. This is the essence of Christianity after all. That is why Jesus will make a second coming - he didnt completely fulfill the prophecies the first time despite the gospels best attempts with fulfillment citations.
I would have loved to hear about prophets with properly fulfilled prophecies as an option.
It is also a great shame the Adam and Eve story is not understood properly. When God tells Adam not to eat to fruit for he will die that day, note that this is a warning not a prediction. God is not predicting Adam will eat from the fruit. There is just no point in God giving a man He just created a dire outcome about his immediate death following a voluntary action he cant avoid.
As a parent you tell your child not to drink bleach or they'll die. They stupidly drink it. You take them to the hospital and they pump the stomach and the child survives. That does not make you a liar. Had you not intervened they would have died.
God does claim the fruit is poison. It is clear it gives knowledge of good and evil not kill. Gos also does not say eating the fruit will be immediately deadly, rather only on that day. Adam eats it and sees his new evil thoughts. God walks the garden daily. When God will approach Adam to talk to him Adam knows he will die because he is no longer pure enough.He is ashamed and afraid. He fashions clothes to insulate his thoughts from God but knows its futile, so he hides from the One who sees all. Fortunately for Adam God stops from approaching feigning ignorance, giving Adam a chance to repent. Adam blames God for giving him Eve. God had undergone an excessive exercise letting Adam select his own mate from all creation so there could be no way Adam could justify his sin by blaming God back, and here he does it nevertheless. After the punishment first thing God does is clothe Adam, so that his thoughts could have some insulation when God approaches to have a relationship with mankind.
God didnt lie about the warming. He saved Adam and Eve's lives from the natural consequences by transforming them with clothes (leather skin).
You're smoking some heavy stuff mister!
This was a close competition, but I think Derek took the trophy for best flannel shirt on this episode.
Well, both have dark buttons…that’s good.
Derek has one pocket unbuttoned…that’s a point off.
Mathew has a tragically clashing green t-shirt …that’s just transgressive!
Derek’s black t-shirt helps with the overall look.
(I fear that Derek’s shirt is …I hate to say it…fluffy polyester…but I don’t know.)
So, given all that..I agree with you.😂
Question to the author of the vid: when you were a believer, did you ever claim to “experience God/Holy Spirit/miracles”? If so, what do you think about them now?
Two for one on the Lumberjack shirts?
Derek went for the discount beard tho
I think one of the worst things the early church did when they were adopting the texts of the New Testament was to include the book of Revelation.
They didn’t have a periodic table……
“Elements” didn’t mean molecules. It’s meant “aspects” of the culture.
Exactly, the elements of the old covenant system.
It’s not simply “scripture interprets scripture,” rather it’s understanding that NT authors quoted the OT and that revelation is progressive.
Especially love how they take Genesis, written in Hebrew, and just use the English word "day" to explain their view. Less than 1 minute in and I'm convinced 😢
"...Apologetics is corrosive to forming any historical context...: (-paraphrasing), but yeah. Apologists are going to Apologize.
I converted to Preterism. It makes the most since. Daniels 70 weeks happened. No 2000 year gap bey year 69 and 70
How do you explain the following regarding the "land promise" (Inheritance)?
Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
The promise to Abraham was not conditioned on the behavior of the children of Israel. The Law of Moses has no bearing on the promise. But...once under the law of Moses, they get kicked out from time to time, and as the following shows, God brings them back to the Promised Land (Deuteronomy 30:1-7. Both the Old Covenant, which begins in Exodus 20, and the New covenant, which begins at the death of Jesus, has no bearing on the land promise. All because the promise was given some 400 years before the law, aka old covenant. See also Deuteronomy 30:1-7 then Ezekiel 36. This is much as we know what GRACE is all about. Do you get to go to heaven based on your behavior? Or Grace, lest you should boast?
@@chapmaned24 why did you deflect from my comment? Can you explain why Daniel prophesied the exact time when the end ( of the old covenant) would be. 70 x 7 is 490 years and historically Jesus' era was that EXACT time. The destruction of Jerusalem followed in 70 AD. Now answer my comments first. Then I will respond to your comments.
@kathycushman6326 I didn't deflect at all. Obviously, you and I have a completely different take on Daniel. But I'm going to set that aside because I'm not concerned with Daniel at this point. 70 ad destruction of the temple is irrelevant. In order to get to the MEAT of preterism, is that you have to go to the beginning, and the beginning is not the destruction of the temple. Preterism's whole PREMISE is wrong. Another term for preterism is covenant eschatology, which proclaims that physical Israel lost out due to disobedience, calling the Jews APOSTATE ISRAEL, and the church takes over, becoming spiritual Israel. But... and this is a huge but... the promise to Abraham about the Jews inheritance of that land is NOT conditioned on the behavior of the children of Israel. Preterism falls flat on its face based on Galatians 3: 18. Their whole premise is in the toilet. You've heard the term "Old Covenant Israel"? There is no such thing because the promise wasn't based on the old covenant. It wasn't based on the behavior of the Jews. Genesis 15 is the promised land. Genesis 17 is the promised seed. But Preterism hasn't figured out that the promise is BOTH carnal AND spiritual, at the same time. Galatians 3:16 sheds light on that.
Carnal
a. PROMISED LAND = Small piece of real estate in the middle east.
b. PROMISED SEED = Isaac
c. The seed of Isaac gets the promised land.
SPIRITUAL
a. Promised Land = Heaven
b. Promised Seed = Jesus
c. The seed of Jesus gets heaven
Both are true, and neither can be annulled, all because the promise was not conditioned on the behavior of anyone in either. Not by the works of the law, lest any man should boast. We call that grace in that same promise.
So the Jews get land, we get heaven. I've got a lot more to say, but that would take too long. But when you consider what I said here, you will see that Preterism's 70 weeks is trash. So is their take on the anti-christ. See Matthew 22:41-42. The Jews will never believe in a gentile messiah. There is just too many falsehoods in Preterism.
@@kathycushman6326 If I could, I'd like to bring up one major thing that couples preterists mindset, in that the Jews rejected Jesus. Yes, they did. But why?
When Jesus was on the cross, he said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do". Why did they know not? Was it not prophesied that Jesus would die as a sacrifice to save sinners by the blood of Jesus? Wasn't the mission of Jesus that cross? If they didn't kill Jesus, would you be saved? And they killed the prophets...what is their belief about false prophets? I'm not saying that they were false prophets...but they certainly thought that they were...
Deuteronomy 18:20
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Why did the Saul, before he was the Apostle Paul, kill Christian Jews?
Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.
That is not judicial blindness, either. It is not their fault that they are blind. It is not their fault that they killed the prophets. It is not their fault that they killed Jesus. However, being under the law, they get punished...hence the famous preterist word...DESOLATE. They were desolate in the 70 year captivity in Babylon, too. But they still came back (Deuteronomy 30:1-7)
When Jesus came on the scene, he said...
Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Sight to the blind...
John 9:39-41
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
Now, we also have Ezekiel 36 to contend with, where God BRINGS THE JEWS BACK TO ISRAELfor GOOD...if you notice the following:
22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
Someday, those blinders will come off. Do you remember the story of Joseph and his brothers, who threw him in a pit, but in the end, Joseph went from the pit to the palace. And, Joseph's brothers had no clue who he was until Joseph revealed himself, and he forgave them all. Hence all Israel (blind Jews) shall be saved.
Joseph and his brothers are a prophetic story of Jesus and the Jews who killed him. He forgives them for everything. For what they meant for evil, God meant for good...to save many. They are blind due to no fault of their own. Therefore, they are not "apostate Israel".
Anyway, contrast Deuteronomy 29:4, their blindness, to Romans 15:21for Gentiles:
21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.
They are NOT "IN CHRIST" THEREFORE, there is a huge difference between Jew and Gentile.
Someday, God will unblind them. He has to.
@@chapmaned24you misunderstand the position that preterists take on Israel. We don't discard Israel. Only the covenant is replaced. Ephesians 2 says gentiles are FELLOW CITIZENS with Israel. Other passages say there is neither jew nor Greek. We all are equally under the blood of Jesus. Because of the new covenant. It's somewhat hurtful to be misunderstood about these matters. Abraham is the father of ALL Christians . I have been in both camps...dispensationalism and Preterism. I find that if I am dogmatic in my position than I am not willing for the holy Spirit to work in me, help me search scriptures and grow in a deeper understanding . As far as the land inheritance for Israel .....even if you convinced me that they will get the land ultimately it's way more important that the Jews come to Christ, not inherit land. Israel broke the covenant with God over and over and over . God said they were harlots. He finally divorced them and the remnant that still believed became the first century church . Jews were the first Christians. The promise of the final sacrifice of the Lamb was the last sacrifice and salvation was for all men
I don’t see antiSemitic in play if anyone refers to old Jerusalem as mystery Babylon. It has nothing to do with being Jewish,. Judaea/Jews
Looking forward to Chris Hansen's To Catch a Preterist ;)
Sounds like the Entrapment Gosple
Jesus came back in 70 AD and all I got was this tee-shirt !?!
NONE of His apostles wrote a book? Not even a Letter?
Or a pamphlet, even?
"In the day you eat of this fruit... you will die:". God also said 1 day to Him is as a 1000 years to man. Adam lived 936 years. Next.
Ironically this is the most sense and smart Derek has ever sounded to me, even down to when he said it was a about a divine council when it is written “let us make God In our image” like he said very Mesopotamian
So the guest uses the word context, but the problem is that context needs to be defined and its not trivial.
So lets talk about some various texts, Ezekial. Daniel, Mark, Matthew. What is the author doing in the text and what is the context. I will spare the mesopotamian stuff.
Judges and Samuel 1. Mystics are seen as bad, religious practice is assocuated with a centralizing holy mountain (Gerezim) or its alternative (Shiloh). The context is the LBAC, the central actor are the rebellious tribes, who organize under their rebellion under the pretext of their old god El, and then confederate under the same god. What are their practices. Largely a ploy to the mountain god, a wide ranging umbrella god who shuns temples and firmalized constructions with metal, hewn stone and wood. The local observances are organized into beth and mysticism is in that context, mystics outside of that are like prostitutes outside of the temple. Ergo the context for the witch of Endor.
Kings: During the first temple period there are two kings, one over the larger tribes in Shechem and one over two tribes in Jerusalem. Loyalty is to the kings but observance is respectful of the overarching ruler, Egypt and Syria. At the end of the period the beth practices are seen as an undermining of the kings. Mystical practices occur within a set priesthood, but illegal practices occur just about everywhere. The priesthood is largely esoteric. For example Isaiah makes few futuristic prophecies.
Exile: Second Isaiah, Ezekial and the Danielic stories. The context now is that the kings are no more, there is a credence that judea can be restored, people seek visions of when the testoration occurs. People are looking for hope. The mystical cries of the pre-exilic prophet reverberate in the exilic community, as mysticism is no longer a threat yo the king.
The Seleucid Period. Judea is once again under the oppressive finger of a foriegn ruler, the loosely held books of daniel, some mystical, some just story are assembled and narrated. Once again their is a revolt against the leaders but there is no king, thus mystical prophesies are not a threat.
The book of Mark. I would defer to James Tabor on Marks motivations, though I would add that Mark is sampling a lost gispel Q and trying to build an esoteric magical divine figure out of sayings, tall tails and his storied imagination. The war is over, Jews are defeated, the sayings Jesus is falling, the mythical Jesus is rising.
The book of Matthew, a similar context but from a more Jewish persoective. I susoect Matthew is disappointed. The context is that, promoted by Nero, a zealous group of actors rise up and seal the fate of the Judeans. His disappointment is that he saw Jesus as a savior figure, but his own Jews would not listen. Instead of tollowing the sword of the tongue, they picked up swords of metal. Most people see Matthew as disliking Mark, but he borrows extensively from mark, and I think principally he bases his passion narrative on Marks story and expands it. So Matthews use of the word christ and certain parts of Mark is an admition that the more pauline view of Jesus has merit than a prewar Jewish follower might have. The context here is that Jews are in a state of confusion and transition. The later gnostic beliefs are largely derived from jewish prechristian groups that represent various mystical groups in Judaism. So that a variety of peripheral jewish groups are beginning to reflect on what happened and deciding to include Jesus within their belief framework.
The Gospel of John. Im one of the people who think the first hellenized structure within John was pre-war. It was a more whimsical text designed for a greek audiance, and its akin to a fan fiction. After osticization of christians from the assembly of Jews in Ephesus, they then added an anti-Jewish layer. But I think that a decade or more after the War, with a weak effective ecclesia grecan christians were increasingly seeing the Jesus following as kind of dry and unfulfilled. I think a major issue with the gospels is they lacked the features of other elective beliefs. I would imagine at the time there were already aspects of the gospel of Tomas in circulation and these authors want something for their audiance that was more hellenized, more like a mystery religion and embodied the soul as kind of an aspiring god.
Again, the god of the roman empire was the distant emperor, these people were far from kingly controls. They wanted a faith that aspired them closer to heaven as Jerusalem was unlikely to be restored in their lifetime. In the context of isolated groups in a large empire tgere was no hope of building an Israelite like state, there was no genetic cohesiveness. There was constant external threat from other beliefs, so growing a big austentacious church was not possible, their focus had to be on the power inside.
It’s kinda weird defending a subcategory of Christian beliefs against those that reject the most basic tenets of Christianity.
21:00 Full preterist here. The physical death is also defeated. It has to do with being in the glory of God that will make you live eternal. Just like Enoch. It’s possible.
At 23:26 Matthew Hartke said, "... they [the Old Testament prophets] really didn't have any conception of an afterlife."
This is so easy to disprove :
In 2 Samuel 12 king David (who is also a prophet) said he would go to his dead son since his dead son will not return to him.
In 1 Samuel 28 king Saul consults a medium who brings up the spirit of the dead prophet, Samuel, to speak with king Saul. The text says king Saul knew it was Samuel. Then Samuel's spirit has a conversation with king Saul.
Daniel the prophet speaks about the resurrection in Daniel chapter 12 verse 2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."
How can comments be from six months ago if this is live now? I thought Matthew said he was not teaching this week. My apology for giving the wrong reply about MN teaching this week given in the morning meeting.
After researching Tartaria and Mudflood topics you'll see ruins where rocks were melted above existing stonework that was unearthed from the time of the flood. This is exactly what 2nd Peter 3:5 is saying:
2Pet 3:5
For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
King Neb's dream of the image of a man who feet is struck by a rock prophecy's Jesus returning to destroy the Roman Empire. You'll also come to realize that 1000 years was added to our timeline which was called the "Dark Ages" where no one wrote anything down, is a joke because since early Bible time people always wrote stuff down on stone or what ever.
You disproved nothing. Preterism is the truth. It’s what the Word says, exactly as Jesus said it would.
One could very well say Jesus did return, In the spirit/Holy Spirit
John 14:16-18
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER comforter, that HE may abide with you for ever.
17. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth HIM not, neither knoweth HIM; but you know HIM; for HE dwelleth WITH YOU, and shall be IN YOU.
18. I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU.
John 14:28
You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, AND COME AGAIN UNTO YOU.
Philippians 1:19
For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
Also Romans 8:9
During the day of the Lord which happens during the last half of Daniel's 70th week, the Bible says, "The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image...The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead person, and EVERY living thing in the sea died...The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood...The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire. 9 They were seared by the intense heat, and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him...The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony 11 and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores...The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the NATIONS collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 EVERY island fled away, and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds, fell on people." None of this happened in the first century, so NO, the Great Tribulation has NOT begun. You are just making everything a metaphor to fit your pre-conceived theological position.
Derek my brother this is straight fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥
At 28:10 Derek accuses Full Preterists of abusing the phrase, "in like manner", found in Acts 1 concerning the coming of Jesus because he has seen some Full Preterists avoid interpreting the phrase literally.
Here is an example of how some Full Preterists interpret the phrase literally :
In Acts 1 the disciples ask Jesus, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
They are hoping Jesus is going to stay and restore the kingdom.
Instead Jesus leaves them by ascending into the sky above them.
The disciples did not expect Jesus to leave them.
There were hoping at that time Jesus was going to restore the kingdom to Israel, but Jesus left in an unexpected manner.
It is this manner in which Jesus would return.
Jesus would return in like manner as he left the disciples >>> UNEXPECTEDLY
Jesus left unexpectedly.
Jesus would return unexpectedly.
Jesus left at a time the disciples did not expect.
Jesus would return at a time the disciples would not expect.
Two angels appeared and challenged the disciples by asking, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand here looking into the sky?"
The angels were trying to get the disciples to stop looking up into the sky and go back to Jerusalem because Jesus had just told them to not leave Jerusalem in order to wait to be baptized by the Holy Spirit.
It makes so much sense for the angels to tell the disciples to stop looking up into the sky because Jesus would return unexpectedly.
The angels could have added, "Since you don't know when he is coming back you better stop wasting your time looking up into the sky."
It makes no sense for the angels to tell the disciples to stop looking up into the sky because Jesus would return physically.
Imagine if the angels added, "Since Jesus is coming back physically you better stop wasting your time looking up into the sky."
If this is what the angels were saying, then the disciples would have kept on looking up!
"Hey! Maybe he's coming right back down."
The literal interpretation of "in like manner" makes sense when you understand the manner the angels were describing was the unexpected manner in which Jesus left.
You sir deserve a round of applause well done. If you use all the verse that Jesus speaks about coming unexpectedly they’ll surely say you’re cherry picking.
Where’s the hope if Jesus already came back?
exactly my thoughts too??
I like how these people do this. Yet if you talk to messianic Jews who know Hebrew and read the Tanach and the brit chadashah those are the old and new testament in Hebrew. You will see what they're saying if bull and made up.
What do you mean where is the hope the hope is confirmed, God is proven true and faithful to his word there is more than just this physical existence and so much more.
If a day with the Lord is as 1000 years, Adam and Eve died physically on the day they ate of the fruit. And two days since Christ's revelation to John is still soon. However the word translated soon is Tachus and also means suddenly, which I think is the sense meant. Like a thief. Suddenly. When not expected.
Misinterpreting Revelation 17 - First century Jerusalem was an immensely rich city. The source of Jerusalem’s immense wealth was donations to the Temple.1 Thus the city was not only a major commercial center, it was also the center of a worldwide religion. According to the Gospels, both Jerusalem and Rome took part in having Jesus killed. Then after Jesus’ death and resurrection, both cities perpetuated their murderous inclinations by killing Jesus’ followers. In Revelation 17:1-7, Babylon is pictured as a woman drinking a cup filled with the blood of the saints. In v. 3, John reveals that Babylon had passed her drink to all the nations of the world. As stated in Revelation 17:15, “the nations of the world” specifically denotes the Roman Empire. This image of a woman sharing the drink containing her adulteries with the nations of the world points to the fact that Jerusalem was the first city to kill the Christian saints, having done so just after Jesus’ death (Acts 8:1-3), while Rome later partook of this cup having also killed Christians during Nero’s persecution in A.D. 64. For an explanation of how v. 3 also applies to Queen
The Israelites did call the Temple,”Heaven & Earth”….& that Heaven & Earth passed away. Ijs
I believe I discovered something rather incredible. It solves a few problems people have had with the whole creation vs evolution thing. I am a die hard believer in creationism. And the reason is God said so. But it also looks at Preterist ideas and God's sense of time.
In the book of Genesis , Chapter 1, The first 6 days are explained as creation. The beginning of chapter 2 explains the rest from all the creation that just occurred by God. That rest is then declared as Holy. It seems up to this point is a prologue to the rest of the story. Continuing in chapter 2, it reads that in verse 4-7 that this is the history or story of the day the Lord made creation and man in. So in that verse , we come out of the prologue of the first 7 days, and back up, or prior to the 7th day.
After God creates man, he tells him to not eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If he does, before the day is over, he will die. He ate the fruit. Adam died over 900 years later. Did Adam die before the day was over?
Did God lie? That is impossible. Only our understanding of His Word can be flawed. How does Adam live 900+ years and not die that day!?!??!? It must mean a "day" is not 24 hours to God. It also must mean we are all still living in the 6th day. The story keeps going...
I was pondering the size of the universe and I ran across an image of the Andromeda Galaxy. Scientists estimate it is 2-4 billion light years away. Our sun is 8 light minutes away. We now understand that light travels at a rate. If the earth was created with everything else in the universe on day three, a literal 24 hour day, there's no way light from that distance would ever reach earth for us to see it. The view from earth would be darkness at night, the light from far away objects takes millions of years to reach us. Even the light from our own Milky Way Galaxy would not reach us in time to view the Glory of His immense creation.
Time to an eternal being is meaningless. Psalm 90:3-4. There's that reminder, we turn back to dust.
Isaiah 53:4-6. Isaiah was written long before Jesus ever came , but Isaiah, carried by the Spirit wrote about the servant of Jehova as if it already had happened. The whole chapter is written in past tense. It is considered by Hebrew scholars and Christian to be prophetic in nature about the coming of the Jewish messiah, The anointed one of God. It hadn't happened yet. It is written in past tense. (It doesn't matter here if you are a follower of Christ or not) It is written in past tense. You can remind your Jewish friends.
Genesis 2:2-3. That is also in past tense. As if it already happened. It hasn't. This is also prophecy. We are still in the 6th day.
Hebrews 4:7-10. If you hear His voice TODAY don't be stubborn. That will hold true, for us also tomorrow and the next day and the next day....Vs 9 says quite specific that God promised a Sabbath, that has not yet come! We are still in day 6!
2nd Peter 3 :8. A day TO THE LORD is like a thousand years and a thousand a day. Time is meaningless to God. Same as Psalm 90.
Still not convinced? If you aren't, this one is undeniable. Isaiah 65:17. God is "creating new heavens and a new earth". Does that sound like He's resting, yet?
2 Cor 5:17. God makes new "creations" in Jesus. To this day. He isn't resting, yet. Still in the creating process.
Mathew 20:1-16. The description of the The Kingdom of God is likened to a "day" with workers in the field. That describes the many workers through time, from Eden to the Patriarchs, to the Judges and Kings and prophets to the disciples and Apsotles and preachers and other faithful to now. Those last, first and first last.
So to closeout this discovery that the earth could not have been created in 6 literal days, and that we are still in the 6th day..back to Genesis 1 : 31. By the end of the day, it was very good. Definitely better than good, as it started badly, with sin. We got a ways to go! Because he will have created a new heaven and earth, at the end of the 6th day. That will be very good indeed!
Actually I would imagine this viewpoint would be unifying instead of dividing. Chew on that. Let me know what you think.
With those shirts, shouldn't those guys be choppin down some trees?
"jesus said" Really? Really did someone follow him around with pen and notebook?
A good point. We can't be sure of any of the details attributed to Jesus, and we can be sure that He must have said many things which were not recorded.
Great. I love the clarity of information.
Except there is historical documentation that it was a physical coming Josephus states in the antiquities of the Jews book 17-20
This is an example of both sides looking at history through a glass darkly. This is what we should be asking: Why and when did Imperial authority begin to demand a consensus of Christian beliefs? This desire for consolidation and reconciliation would appear at first have started with Constantine, but it would have been preceded by the unexpected departure of certain aged and dominating institutions of the western empire that relied on polytheistic religion. Except for military events, this part of history immediately prior to the first officially Christian emperor is burned away, and offers a void of understanding. The forgotten events of this cultural tipping point is what we should be studying. Everything that comes after is a different world so to speak, the world of late antiquity into the middle ages, one that looks at the western empire as defeated, post-decadent and culturally subordinate to it's eastern half. This divided world that we've inherited has created the contextual debate of Christian origins
Hello MythVision are you Derich Jester?
Spiritual death, not physical death, however they did start to grow old and experience disease and death.
Yes, christ had come back like the word Parousia, his presence as witnessed by Stephen when he was being stoned to death he saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God
Premillenial Dispensationalism is the only system of interpretation of scripture that makes every prophecy make sense with a literal interpretation.
Right - everything else just doesn't add up.
@@TrishTuttle-g7g Yep. You have to either allegorize or ignore certain passages with other views
Very sloppy and non factual conclusions. It's sad to see someone walk away from the One who went through all that suffering to redeem them. They provided no evidence of their views. How could they when their own mind, their own reasonings have no standard to measure by? Instead of patting each other on the back, have the guts to debate Don Preston.
So you are showing all these books to prove that you are well-read on the subject and (at # 5:20) you come to the book "The Great Controversy" and you have no clue at all that it is The SDA's primary evangelization tool famously written by their prophetess, Ellen White? Thanks for letting me know from the start that you, despite your claims, have NO idea what you're talking about, saving me from wasting almost an hour watching a video by someone who's chosen the world over Jesus.
The creation in Genesis has nothing to do with a physical creation, but a covenantal creation. It uses metaphoric language (Hebraic poetry) to tell a covenantal story. Being naked was not meant to be taken literally, but represented the shame of a broken covenant. Their covering was a temporal covering of sin until Christ brought a permanent one.The end is like the beginning and the story of Eden is not literal. Adam and Eve represent the first of God's covenantal creation. When that first people rebelled against God it was a broken relationship. Marriage is like death in that way. Here was a couple, or a people who were to rule with God in their realm (there were others around before this couple), and the day they decided not to, they were banished from a relationship they had long held. The Garden simply represented life, which was the life of God-a relationship. Christ is the Garden and always was.
Jesus is coming back in the future. Full Preterism is UNORTHODOX HERESY and an unbeliever is the last person I would take Biblical advice from.
Adam and Eve died spiritually not physically
They did die that day when they ate the fruit.
I've listened to 17 minutes and there's a lot of words being spoken with very few references to scripture.
Scripture interprets scripture.
Go read the first book. The book of Enoch. The book referenced in the scriptures.
A day for YAHUAH is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day
Adam and Eve ate the fruit and died before the age of 1000 therefore dying on the first day of creation.
There's 7 days of creation with the 7th being the Sabbath but the book of Enoch goes further with 10 day's.
I've got as far as YHVH is the Father and Yahuah, in our breath and our dna
The saviour seen by Enoch who came as Yahusha
Misrepresenting IO is a thing I suppose.
Please read Richard carrier paper on IO and it's stupid interpretations devoid of any peer reviewed scholarship and how inasne that movement is.
@@elliot7205 don't know, don't care. I just read what I read and it was all about Israel.
at the 20:39 mark where you guys are laughing about josephus and the elements melting away, it feels like god is confirming in my spirit that is the correct view...
Hey Derek! Have you ever dealt with the transcendental argument for the exsitence of God? Have you ever heard of Greg Bahnsen? I’d encourage that you check out some of the material Greg Bahnsen and other Presuppositional apologist have produced if you haven’t already.
Thanks for the share ….. ✝️
Y’all say the OT language doesn’t translate over to the NT but Paul refutes that. The Jewish leaders didn’t understand the prophets because it was a mystery hidden. Only through the Spirit was the true meaning revealed and Paul knew that.
Acts 26:22
22 To this day I have had the help that comes from God, and so I stand here testifying both to small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would come to pass:
One of you mentioned how 2nd Peter is impossible to be metaphorical. You are correct. Israel was burned and judged. It was not metaphorical. Earth always represented israel. They were the promised land. Everyone outside of the Earth was the sea. You never heard of the phrase sea of people. When it says there's no more sea in the book of revelations. That means there's no more gentile. Just like Paul said there's no longer Gentile or Jew in the new covenant. But it still past tense. And it's clear when it says Heaven and Earth has passed away in the new Heavens are here. It's talking about the old Covenant and the New Covenant. God bless you. So you basically became an atheist?
When Jesus speaks about the Kingdom of God he is speaking about Jeremiah 31.
What atheists don't understand is that "Christianity is true and Jesus is Lord" was never meant to be taken literally... I believe in God, metaphorically.
Most people that believe live that way though and they vote that way
I know many Christians who take the bible literally 💔☹️.
The Christians who take the bible literally, are like , father son and holy Bible , instead of the holy spirit ☹️💔
Adam and Eve did die that day Romans 5:12
That’s not wordplay, that’s what the Bible says
@ around 34 minutes... Paul never uses Hebrew scripture with what each Hebrew author intended. This reminds me of Philo of Alexandria's use of Hebrew scripture.
Victory in Yaweh
These guys are so inconsistent with their criticisms and putting words in our mouths, so to speak. The things we "spiritualize" are not out of the context of the original language and context, ect. If they are no longer a believer, why go to great lengths to drag others to their level? What are they afraid of? The more I study, the more consistent and exciting the inspired Word of God is in fulfilled prophecies. I love Jesus even more not inclined to forsake and deny the Lord. Adam died spiritually and eventually died physically.
You are not a born again christian ✝️ you can't understand until your a born again child
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Derek! Please try to have Don on your channel again! Please try to get him to debate Israel Only!
I have already debunked IO-- and you know it. BTW, I am still waiting on the $$$$.
Genesis 1:1 confirms for us all that our current perception of language is not necessarily God's reality in time.
"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth."
Directly followed by:
"Now the Earth was formless and void...."
Adam and Eve contracted (through loss of contact with God's Grace - due to their disobedience) the eventual death of their human bodies.
As a sign for future generations, God sustained Adam's body for 930 years.
In a similar way, Judaism didn't see the Trinity in Genesis 1: 1-3 and Genesis 1:26.
Could it be the bible is full of flaws. Could it be All your interpretation from full preterism, partially preterism or futuristic view are all wrong.
Whether Jesus came in judgements in 70 ad or will come or not.
I think Don Preston view is a more logical solution to a certain point. But just like all of you I'm learning and trying to understand. The more i read i began to distrust the bible interpretations.
I am from a Hindu culture
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Genesis 3:19
God says now man will return to the dust.
Seems to me that Gods intention in creation is that we would not die.
Genesis 3:22
And now , lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.
I see it as they began to die the moment they sinned. But still had access to the tree of life.
It was physical death.
Full preterism does try to spiritualize it all. Doesn’t make sense enough for me.
I cannot continue to watch the rest of the video because the fact is Adam and Eve did die and God did not lie.
They act like they know the bible yet don't know any Greek or Hebrew and Hebrew literature poetry ect. And none of their sources point to anything of the original languages. Their opinions on this matter are irrelevant
jesus soul is not a jewish soul! Jesus soul had numerous life incarnations! There is only one god! Jesus is not god! Jesus soul is not the son of god either! Jesus soul is just that a soul! Jesus was only a man who died! If you have a soul you go to heaven!! This is not larry! This is the senior foundation angel!
If jesus visit hades and why he saves oonly patriarchs and what happen to the billions of souls?
No it’s not… Babylon is Jerusalem because Jerusalem is called the hat lot in the old testament stop spreading the lies
The reason we Full Prets believe animals represent nations and their kings is because Daniel clearly spells out that the animals represent kings and nations The ram = Media and Persia kings. The goat = Greece king. This is very clear in Scripture.
See Daniel 8:19 - 22 which clearly spells out which animals represent which kings of nations:
19 He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king.
Adam and Eve died that day spiritually. You are like someone who uses scissors to cut pieces of a puzzle to make them fit, instead of just putting the pieces in their proper place.
LOL. It is not an attempt to salvage the faith, as it was taught long before much criticism was published. Get out of here with your limited education on this topic. Geez. I have books by FP and Partial Pret that emerged even prior to David Strauss' Life of Christ where he first claimed Jesus was mistaken. Also, these author's published before the Tubigen critics.
Yeah, my pastor said "the day you eat of it you will surely die" was spiritual death. He isn't a preterist. He said alot of things that sounded good within his sermon but was entirely without basis when you tried confirming it in the text. It's just not there in the scripture. How is this the correct reading( intended meaning) when it takes a huge stretch to even be a possible reading of the text?
you might be interested to know what the Hebrew literally says
Genesis 2:17 says "...and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die." (YLT)
מוֹת תָּמוּת
dying you die
unfortunately, Derek does the same thing the "pastors" do.
It's human nature to ignore information not convenient to our operating assumptions / hypotheses. I do it. We all do it. But we all don't admit that we do it.
Most of us will concede that we have engaged in confirmation bias, _in the past,_ ("back when I knew not but knew not that I knew not") but there are few that ACTUALLY readily concede that we actively engage, _in the present,_ in this fallacious thinking. Derek Lambert, for all of his skills for research and his talents at communication (the man has many), is not one you'll find readily admitting his own _ongoing_ tendency to cherry pick i.e. to selectively sample. Though he will hand wave. And hand waving passes muster for many.
In any case, I'd suggest you do your own studies and search. And question EVERYTHING you hear whether from pastor or scholar. In both church and classroom, misinformation abounds; and this due to 'signal repeating.'
Keep an open mind. And heart.
Be blessed.
We learned that a day for the Lord is as a 1000 years. So when he said they would die that day, they did. Neither of them lived till 1000 years old. Yet they both got very close. We are on Gods clock, not our own.
@@vladgor4099 Are you referring to Psalm 90 or 2 Peter? And when did God mention this to Adam? Or did he inform Moses of what he meant? If God was referring to a thousand year timeframe as a day to Adam, after specifically calling the period of light "day", and the period of dark "night", while secretly holding crossed fingers behind his back and meaning in his heart 365,240 days, God was at the very least being deceptive.
If you're referring to 2 Peter, a "day for the Lord" =23.655 seconds every bit as much as 1000 years.
@@howaboutataste Huh…?
There's no such thing as an ex-Christian. If you'd actually read the Bible you'd know this.
John 8:31, 1 John 2:19, Matt 7:21-23, John 6:39, John 10:28-29