I feel sorry for this guy, he has been duped by the master deceiver and needs our prayers desperately. He says he doesn't believe we have to resist the devil anymore, but I have no doubt that it was the enemy who caused him to doubt the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the first place, and then conveniently provided him with the answers to his doubts in a way that appeased his earthly logic. May God illuminate the eyes of his understanding in such a way that every error would be clearly exposed by the light of Truth! Amen!
I was just thinking he was filled with something but it wasn’t the Holy Spirit. I’m gonna have to repent. He must not have had any terrible things happen to him in life. I witnessed the devil in my first husband’s eyes. I think he needs to see the devil face to face. Then he won’t be filled with hot air. If this world is so close to being hell, why would we not resist the frickin douche who makes it that way?!?
Charismania witchcraft. Your powers of giberish are not tongues, and your prophecies are false. You are students of the necromancer Dr. James Peebles and don't even know it.
The same way you see him go up, is the same way you will see him come down... Jesus went up into a spiritual throne/heaven. Jesus returned to a spiritual throne/heaven! (comes not by observation) We are the tabernacle that God dwells in. Be 1 with me as I am one with the Father.... Work has been finished!!! Jesus told the thief on the cross TODAY you will be with me in PARADISE! Paradise in not the physical earth! No one comes to the Father except thru me. How are you going to the Father if you're waiting for Jesus to come?
Jesus left in the clouds. In the old testament, Yahweh came 'in the clouds' in judgement of nations. Babylon, Egypt, and Assyria. Thats exactly what he prophecied to the high priest and God Judged Jerusalem in 70 AD. That's why the high priest rent his clothes and accused Jesus of blasphemy. Jesus was saying he was 'coming in the clouds' - God judging them. They knew what he was saying.
“But if there is no resurrection of the dead,then Christ is not risen.And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty”-1 Co 15:13-14.”But now Christ is risen from the dead”-V20.”Because I live,you will live also”-John 14:19📖✝️
I have a friend that goes to my church that has experienced a miraculous healing. Was electrocuted and horribly burned on half of his face from 440volts. The arc was so bright that he was told he would not regain his sight in one eye, and would have trouble with the other for the rest of his life. So many members of the church he attended at the time came in one after the other and prayed for hours in the hospital with him. THe next day his burns on his face were completely healed, his eyes had changed color and they were completely healed. The doctors that saw this said it was impossible. Tell me again that God doesn’t heal?
Really, there should be some kind of medical records that would attest to validity of your claims here then? When did this happen? What was his name? What was the name of the Church and the Hospital? What was the Pastors name and are there any people that would corroborate this story? I mean, after all, this is a verifiable miracle, right?
Anecdotes aren't evidence, and you won't convince people using them. You'd need verifiable data. Perhaps this case can fit into a medical journal, but proof of miraculous healing is not this
So many of these stories go uncorroborated or happen without video evidence . So many 2nd hand stories are fake -- that doesn't mean that God can't heal someone , but I'm automatically skeptical of these .
You know referring to the temple I'm surprised so many people talk about building a third Temple when they're reading letters which are solely center around the construction of the final Temple which was incidentally complete in 70 AD, Personally I think it's a result of listening to other people repeat their ideology while never really receiving any Revelation on the subject for themselves
Did Dr. Brown provide any rebuttal to Sullivan’s actual arguments? Because I’ve gone through this a couple time and, from my observations, his responses consist in begging the question - ie continually CLAIMING these things are future while not touching on any of the very clear and simple syllogisms Sullivan used to establish FP.
@@thecanberean human trafficking, organ trafficking, millions of abortions, horrible wars, child soldiers, euthanasia (assisted suicide)… VS. “death shall be no more”. How is that a weak argument?! Love in Christ.
@@BelgianBrideYeah it was way worse back then also what are the wages of sin? what does Paul say Romans 4:15 For the law brings wrath but where there is no law there is no transgression Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of god is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord 1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks to be God who gives us victory through our lord Jesus Christ So this is talkin bout the power of death which is sin this isn’t sayin sin isn’t anymore but the power it has is no more so there is no more death bc death is sin so we can still sin but we won’t die in our sins like they did that’s what Sheol was it was a place for the righteous and unrighteous that’s what resurrection of the dead was it was Jesus raisin those ppl up who followed Jesus and the second part was when the temple got destroyed we were resurrected from the dead bc Jesus says Matthew 5:17-19 Do not think I have come to abolish the law of the prophets but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you until heaven and earth pass away not an iota not a dot will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called the least in kingdom of heaven but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in kingdom of heaven. So this doesn’t make sense if heaven and earth isn’t reference to the temple so death is no more for us and sin lost its power not that’s it’s gone tho
Sullivan was so wrong about the gifts ceasing, but correct on fulfilled eschatology and this bizarro Zionism going on. Likewise, Brown was and has been in point about the charismatic and the gifts. However, he did very poorly here with a wooden futurist argument. Brown said Matthew 24 was fulfilled? So now he is a partial preterist? Uhhhhh, but what else is there then?
@Samuel Lev Because with full preterism, the way it is on the earth today is as good as it gets. No future New Earth for the redeemed to live on with the Lord as physical, immortal humans. It's all already happened??? That's why it's heretical
Do you believe this happened in the first century? Matthew 24:30-31: “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then ALL the peoples of the earth (NOT just Jerusalem) will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, (NOT just Jerusalem) from one end of the heavens to the other." IF this happened in the first century and ALL the peoples of the earth saw the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, I think it would be the most spectacular event in all of history and historical records around the entire world would be rife with reports of dumbfounded people in total shock at the most amazing sight ever! Notice it says ALL the people of the earth and not just those around Jerusalem. Or are you saying All the peoples of the earth is a metaphor for people around Jerusalem. Also, Peter says, "The Day of the Lord comes as a thief, the heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will melt in fervent heat, and the earth and all its works will be laid bare. Sorry, this did NOT happen in the first century Jerusalem. How do you make some things metaphors and others literal, like passages in Revelation that say certain events will happen soon, or quickly? Also, the word translated soon in Revelation (these things will soon happen) is according to Strong’s the Greek word “tachei” and it means: quickness, speed; hastily, immediately. So, it can be a reference to a particular event happening at a quick pace once it starts.
Sullivan clearly can’t answer questions! Nor can give scripture stating where we are here in this present world 🌎! Nor has anyone sit in the temple claiming to be God! And what about the Mt. of olives being split in two!
Mr. Brown would do well not to read scripture with a 21st century mindset. A proper understanding of the 1st century Jewish culture, language and the history surrounding the Bible is key to a proper understanding of scripture.
I’m a partial Preterist and believe that Michael is 90% correct but Dr. Brown has some good arguments. Jesus DID return in AD 70, but in judgement and will still come again at the second advent (Acts 1) after the Kingdom which came in AD 70 has come to a complete fulfillment in converting all nations to the Gospel.
Partial preterism is like dispensationalism. I am a kind of a full preterism but embrace the gifts of the Spirit. This is the error of preterism that mixes the gifts with eschatology. Also Revelation clearly points to the uncean spirits hiding in the ruins of the Whore. The deathblow to Satan is somehow unrelated to The Devil. Demons are still out there at large as long as there is darkness and light, which means eternally. There seems to be a diff between angels of Satan and demons, but am still exploring this issue in the Word. The 70 weeks took place in 1st century. This means resurrection TOOK PLACE then. But just as salvation it is an even that has been ACTUALIZED in the NEW generations of the NEW creation, and there is no end to it as long as the earth stands.
Preterism is so clear and makes the Bible true and make sense. So why is dying and going to heaven now to be with the father cheapened? Futuristic views cheapened the work of Christ and put us in a position of denying the work of Christ. I won’t ever do that again. I BELIEVE the words of Christ! Matthew 16:27-28
Sola Scriptura is so messed up! Sullivan doesn't even want to reflect on the historical pattern of Church History on this subject as Dr. Brown has invited him to do at some point of the exchange!? Anyway ... I'm still shaking head! Dr. Brown did good!
Preterism? That everything has already happened? No, first the rapture and then Israel's tribulation. 2 Thess 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. First the apostasy (meaning correctly departure) must come and the man of lawlessness come forth, the son of perdition, 4 the adversary who exalts himself above all that is called god or holy so that he sits in the temple of God and says he is God. 5 Do you not remember that I told you this while I was still with you? 6 And you know what it is that now holds him back so that he can come forward only when his time comes. 7 The secret of lawlessness is already at work. Now only the one holding back must be cleared out of the way. 8 Then the lawless one will come forward, he whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the spirit of his mouth and destroy with the glory of his coming. In Matthew 24, Jesus talks about the abomination of desolation Daniel talks about, words that speak strongly that something will be in the temple that should not be there - antichrist. Sure, a lot has happened since the time of the disciples, but no one has yet stood in the temple and claimed to be God? The lawless one (antichrist) cannot be revealed until that which holds back is "cleared" out of the way...what is it if not the church with holy spirit. Therefore Paul says that the man of lawlessness cannot be revealed before "the departure" it is a definitive word. Obviously, the rapture has not happened yet. Apostasy is a Greek word and means a departure from something and we know that Paulie has in the first letter to the Thessalonians talked about the rapture, so in this case its about the departure. 1 Thess 4:16 When a command sounds, an archangel's voice and a trumpet of God, then the Lord himself will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that we who are alive and remain will be caught up (departured) among clouds together with them to meet the Lord in space. And so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. Haven't happened yet, so there you go.
Is Matthew 10:23 about 70 AD, or is it about Jesus coming as the King to Israel? The answer is found below in Zech. 9:9. Did Jesus "cometh" as the King of Israel riding on a donkey during the week He was crucified? If Matthew 10:23 is about 70 AD, Peter ignored the commandment given by Jesus in Matthew 10:5-7, when Peter went to the house of Cornelius. It did not take the disciples forty years to take the Gospel to Israel. In Romans 1:16 Paul said the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews. This time period of the Gospel going "first" to Israel is found in Matt. 10:5-23, and Acts chapter 2, and Acts 10:36-38, and Galatians 1:14-18. Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. The Old Covenant age died at Calvary when God ripped the temple veil in half from the top to the bottom at the moment His Son died at Calvary. There is no record in the NT of any person coming to salvation outside of the New Covenant between Calvary and 70 AD. Hebrews 7:12 proves there was a change in the law before 70 AD. We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant Church of Mount Zion and the blood of Jesus in Hebrews 12:22-24. This passage was written in the present tense before 70 AD. If the Hyper-Preterists were correct the Old Covenant age would come back into existence if a temple were rebuilt, and animal sacrifices are renewed. Any basic book on Astronomy proves we are not now living in the "eternal" New Heavens and New Earth, because the sun only has a limited amount of nuclear fuel. We now understand the nuclear reaction inside the core of the sun, because of the testing of thermonuclear weapons. .
In my first years as a born-again Christian, I would remember reading Matthew chapters 24 and 25 without really understanding what I was reading. I would hear "eschatological scholars" preach on these chapters, and even though I accepted what they were saying, many questions remained unanswered, and, at times, I felt as if certain passages from these two chapters contradicted what these men taught. However, I at the time had no alternative explanation to offer, so I silently accepted the traditional interpretation of these chapters. In the Sunday afternoon of November 7, 2004, I sat down to study the Word, and I asked the Lord, "What do you want me to study?". A song then began to play in my mind. It was a song called "Right here, right now", a song by Jesus Jones that hit the secular charts in 1991(we included the lyrics of this song in a previous prophetic word). The phrase "watching the world wake up from history", that is part of this song, made a strong impression on my heart, because it reminded me of this verse in Ephesians chapter 5: "Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light" (Ephesians 5:14) It was then that Lord said to me, "I want you to study about the rapture and My second coming". I then began to study a passage related to the rapture, but, to be honest with you, I ended that study more confused than when I started. I wanted to share with other members of our Bible study group about what the Lord had told me to study, but I did not feel God's authorization to do so. I was amazed at how God independently began to speak to each of the other members of the group about the importance of studying on his "second coming", and as they shared this with me, I understood that God wanted us to write articles on it. Since there were many things that we did not understand, I initially thought that those articles would be written a few months from now. This past Monday, however, the Lord said to me, in no uncertain terms, "I want you to write about My Second Coming next week". I said, "OK, Lord, I have very little to say on this, but I know that You will provide". As the week went by, I found that I had learned very little, and as my natural mind began to consider writing about something else, one of the members of the group spoke to me yesterday about a dream he had had on Wednesday. It was a very vivid dream about the Second Coming of the Lord. He could not recall the details of the dream; he felt as if God had erased the details from his memory, and all he could remember was that the dream was about His Second Coming. I was amazed to hear this, since God had very explicitly warned me against telling this brother about the subject I had to write on this week. The dream served as a strong confirmation, and I felt as if God was telling me, "Son, you are going to write about My Second Coming this week, whether you like it or not"." (This is portion of an article at Shamah-Elim.Info Bible Studies.)
Maybe you should have asked M. Sullivan why he didn't think that the verses about the resurrection referred to being able to buy rocky road ice cream. That seems to be a closer fit than the destruction of the Jerusalem with all the suffering that occurred. Why would the words on the page have no conceptual relationship with what the passage means? It reminds me of how Mormons explain how the Book of Abraham has nothing to do with the text of the Book of the Dead which Smith 'translated' it from, supposedly supernaturally, without knowing the language.
Since both forms of preterism (full/consistent and partial/inconsistent) require a dating of Revelation 30 years earlier than what the vast majority of historians and scholars have agreed upon since the 2nd century, this is very shaky ground upon which to base an entire eschatology. John was on Patmos, exiled by Emperor Domitian(who was known for exiling, whereas Nero some 30 years prior did not exile believers). For Revelation to be about 70 A.D., it would have needed to have been written during Nero's reign. The earliest Christian historian who recorded the church's knowledge of the Domitianic dating of Revelation was Hegessippus in 150 A.D. (around the time when most of those who would have known John had likely already died), and this continued to be the unanimous view until about 4 centuries later with the Syriac Peshitta NT manuscript in which someone wrote that John was exiled under Nero. It is sometimes claimed that the Neronic dating is in the original, but this is impossible since the original lacked the book of Revelation. From what I've been able to gather, there is no source or reasoning given for this change in that 6th century manuscript. This is problematic at best, and lacks the authoritativeness that would be required to credibly make such a huge revision to what was commonly accepted and passed down from the end of the first century/beginning of the 2nd. The same can be said for the Muratorian Fragment, which is the 7th century copy of the 2nd century original, with no way to prove the Neronic dating was in the original. There is no record of any of the early church fathers holding to the Neronic date of Revelation. A fascinating glimpse into the early church fathers and what they believed on a variety of topics is in 'A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs', over 700 pages compiled by David Bercot. In addition to Hegessippus (who wrote this some 30 years prior to Irenaeus), Tertullian , Eusebius, Jerome, Sulpicius Severus, and a number of other church fathers both before and not long after the council at Nicaea all confirm that John was exiled to Patmos by Domitian where he received Revelation. The lack of any dissenting view naming Nero in place of Domitian until the 6th century should give early-date advocates pause. So at least most of the events of Revelation are still in our future (some view the messages to the churches as having already been strictly for them and completely fulfilled, while some view each church as symbolic for a different time period, and of course there could be room for double-fulfillment of most of those first 3 chapters). There was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John. The overall predominant view since the first century is that John was exiled under Domitian and survived into the time of Trajan. It wasn't until centuries after the original apostles had died that the pre-70 A.D. view came into being. And what other events in the 1st century A.D. are ever claimed as taking place 2 or 3 decades earlier (or later, for that matter)? With all of the accurate records kept during the Roman Empire era and surviving today, there is little room for such a vast difference being feasible. It's commonly believed that Jesus died around 30 or 33 A.D., Paul and Peter were martyred in the 60's, Nero lived from 37-68 A.D., etc. No one says Jesus died in 3 A.D. or 60 A.D., or that Peter and Paul were martyred in the 30's A.D. or 90's A.D., or that Nero actually reigned around the time of Jesus' ministry as recorded in the Gospels. The majority of scholarship places John's writing of Revelation in the mid-90's, but somehow preterists think it's ok to switch this around by 3 decades? The great fire of Rome took place for nearly a week during 64 A.D., but no one places it in 54 A.D. let alone 34 A.D. A powerful earthquake in 60 A.D. devastated Laodicea. And yet no one ever says that earthquake took place in 30 A.D. 30 years prior. With the vast majority of evidence to the contrary, preterism literally rests on this single pillar of the dating of the book of Revelation. And, really, that is no pillar at all given the historicity of the late date.
Do you think Rev 11:1-2 was written before, or after, the temple's destruction? Revelation 11 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/revelation/11.htm 1 And a reed was given to me like a rod and the Angel was standing and said, "Rise and measure the Temple of God and the altar and those who worship in it," 2 "And the inner court of the Temple leave out and do not measure it, because that is given to the Gentiles, and they will trample The Holy City forty two months. 3 "And I shall grant my two witnesses to prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days while wearing sackcloth."
What are your thoughts on Rev 17:10? Revelation 17:10 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/revelation/17.htm "And there are seven Kings; five have fallen and one is, and there is another not yet come, and when he comes, a little remaining time is given to him." What's your opinion of Kenneth Gentry's 3 internal-evidence arguments for Revelation being written before A.D. 70 during the reign of Nero? Compelling Internal Evidence For The Early Date View Of The Book Of Revelation th-cam.com/video/ZngW7fp_wvk/w-d-xo.html 1) Rev 11:1-2 Lk 21:24 Rev 1:1 2) Rev 3:9 Gal 6:16 Philippians 3:3 Rom 2:28-29, 3:1-2 'they say they're Jews but they're not true Jews-- we followers of Yeshua the promised Meshikha _are_ the true Jews' Judaism and Christianity were commingled prior to Jerusalem's destruction. After Jerusalem's and the temple's destruction in A.D. 70, Judaism and Christianity became separated. In A.D. 80, a formal curse against followers of the Nazarene Jesus started being used. 3) 7 kings/emperorers/caesars-- 5 fallen: Julius Caesar. Augustus. Tiberius. Gaius. Claudius. 1 now is: Nero [died A.D. 68, reigned 13 1/2 years] 1 to come and reign a short period: Galba [reigned 6 months] Jewish historian Josephus said Julius Caesar was the 1st caesar. Suetonius's _Lives of the 12 Caesars_ starts with Julius Caesar. Tacitus is the odd man out, by starting with Augustus. Re: the possible rejoinder that Nero’s persecution was not worldwide, do you think this Caesar Augustus-required registering was worldwide?: Luke 2 (NKJV), www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+2&version=NKJV 1 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. 2 This census first took place while Quirinius was governing Syria. 3 So all went to be registered, everyone to his own city.
@@davidford15 if you read my comment you'd see that Revelation was written after the temple's destruction. It's baffling to me why preterists think the phrase 'temple of God' in Revelation 11 was referring to the 2nd temple. The 2nd temple had ceased to be the temple of God after the the death and resurrection of Christ. Nothing could be forgiven outside of Christ's sacrifice once He did that for us. Therefore the 2nd temple could not in any way, shape, or form be referred to as the temple of God around Nero's time when preterism claims Revelation was written. It was just a shell with no glory, no holiness, no more forgiveness. In fact, the sacrifices that took place there for approximately 40 years up until 70 A.D. were an affront to the cross! But God was merciful and gave them that time to repent. Christians are the 3rd temple, technically speaking. There is no longer a need for a physical temple. For all we know, this reference to the temple of God might not even be literal just like a number of other places where the Bible is definitely not or might not be literal. I don't know how the end times are going to play out exactly, but that is ok because I know the One who does and entrust myself to His care and teaching. While a 3rd temple might be built in Israel someday with sacrifices instituted again, I'm currently unsure where it would fit in terms of Biblical prophecy.
@@davidford15 all easily refuted in light of the lack of any mention of Nero being the one who exiled John, instead of Domitian, until over 4 centuries after John had died. This was all explained in my original comment which I doubt you read. Within the Roman Empire records were kept very accurately. It's absurd to think that all of those early church fathers starting from the 2nd century onward got it wrong for over 400 years. Beyond absurd.
@@Ttcopp12rt how can you even say that? Jesus clearly told his disciples that he would come back in their lifetime, told them all things would be fulfilled before that generation passed (matt 24:34), said in luke 21:20-22 that the time that the armies that make jerusalem desolate would be when all things fulfilled written in torah. Dr brown never really brings those arguments up let alone even addresses them. Jesus told his disciples that when they see these things they would KNOW it was near and you cant make the "well they thought it was near but were mistaken" argument because in luke 21:8 jesus said those coming in his name saying the time is near when it wasnt are false teachers and to not follow them. So jesus himself taught them when it would be near and when it would not be near. So i ask you, was peter one of the false teachers that jesus warned about in luke 21:8 who said in 1 peter 4:7 "the END OF ALL THINGS is at hand" when it clearly wasnt according to futurists? Well what about john who KNEW it was the last hour in 1 john 2:18? Or what about james who said the coming of christ was so near it was at the doors echoing jesus statement to them in matt 24 when he said "when you see these things know it is near even AT THE DOOR". Did he mistakenly believe the end to happen at the destruction of jerusalem because the letter was written just prior to that. If jesus taught them the temples destruction WAS NOT THE END then how come all the apostles said just prior to ad 70 that the coming/judgement/end of all things was near if that is NOT WHAT JESUS TOLD THEM? Do you understand what im getting at here? If jesus taught two distinct events here that were totally un related to each other and if jesus told them that the time when the temple and city are destroyed IS NOT THE END or IS NOT HIS COMING but jesus told his disciples that there was coming a destruction of this city and temple but you wont see my coming yet until city and temple is restored far in the future or " until the times of the gentiles is fulfilled" which is more than likely way past their time, then why did james tell the twelve tribes in james 5:7-9 that the coming of jesus was near at the doors BEFORE THE TEMPLE WAS DESTROYED IN 70 AD if james was taught christ was not coming then?????? Dr brown shouldnt be a guy to listen to on these subjects anyways because he doesnt seem to address the fact that his friend schumley boteach is a kabbalah rabbi which is the foundation belief system of occult mysticism and i havent heard him rebuke or say much of anything about that but he dont have much issue calling preterist and replacement theology churches heretical but doesnt say anything about kabbalah and the occult his rabbi friends practice which is very telling. It shows he's compromised the truth so he can become just another one sided zionist mouthpiece for israel. Thats what it seems like to me anyways but i could be wrong
Twice Preston debated him and it shook Michael Brown to his core-especially the last one. Michael won't do that again. Bad press for him. Twice knocked out. Don's the champ!
@@alanbradwell5835 Full-Preterist are HERETICS. Apostle Paul already dealt with this ERROR in his time. My first question is do you full-preterists believe the resurrection of the saints happened already and Christ second advent came and went? If yes, then 2 Timothy 2:17,18 applies to YOU. 2 Timothy 2:17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort. 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. Hymenaeus and PHiletus were the Preterits of Old. Now these preterits reemerges such as: Don Preston, Mr. Sullivan, Mr William Bell and others promulgate that the RESURRECTION HAS PAST ALREADY with their selected text phrases: as soon, at hand, shortly, quickly, little while, will not tarry, at the door etc. Paul instructing Timothy that their messages/teaching are LIKE A GANGRENE. These false teachers, the Preterits, attach a spiritual meaning, metaphors and allegorizing the doctrine of the resurrection of the body, instead of a literal meaning. Regarding Matthew 24:34, Luke 21:20-22, James 5:7-9, 1 Peter 4:7 and 1 John 2:18, if these passages came to pass, according to preterits, Where is the Savior, Jesus Christ?These texts are cherry picked out of their context and the overall context of the N.T. If the book of revelation was fulfilled, Jesus Christ killed the BEAST/antichrist and his Kingdom shall be on earth. Lets look at Matthew 24, if "this generation" does mean the apostles then look at verses 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. So after the tribulation, Christ second advent has come: sends his angels to gather his elect to be with the Lord (Matthew 13:38-*41*;1 Thessalonians **4:15**-17), resurrect our dead bodies ( Philippians **3:10**-12*,20, 21*; 2 Timothy 4:8; Revelation20:5; 1 Corinthians **15:19**,20,23, ***42,43,44, 51-53***56,57), marriage of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7-9), the BEAST kills the two witnesses Their dead bodies lie in the street (Revelation 11:3,*8-10*), Christ DESTROYS the BEAST/WICKED ONE and or Antichrist with those who know NOT GOD and OBEY NOT the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:*7,8,9,10*;2 Thessalonians 2:4-*8* ;Revelation 19:11-*20,21*), 2 Peter 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat HAS NOT CAME TO PASS YET. THAT'S CLEAR and the Scriptures are EXPLICIT. Yes, things were fulfilled as to God's vengeance of his people, however, QUOTE ALL OF Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. As stated above, in Christ coming these events shall take place, Jesus Christ did NOT come for his promise lift up your heads; for your redemption drawers nigh. Where is my Redemption, if Christ came already? 1 John 2;18 "it is the last time" I agree it is the last time. Does this "it is the last time" mean that Christ 2nd return came already? No. Look at what the same author says 1 John 2: 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. Notice, John said "When he SHALL APPEAR" Christ did not appear at that moment, most importantly, if Jesus came around 70 ad or 90 ad, John the Apostle REFUTES this in 1 John 3:Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. Apostle said "We know that WHEN Christ appears, WE WILL BE LIKE HIM" How was Christ after his resurrection. He had a spiritual body(1 corinthians15:46): walking thru doors while being shut (john20:19; Luke 24:36), and able to eat with this body (Luke 24:*40-43*). Do we living today have this spiritual body?
Praise God for the unchanging truth,Mal3:6,the Lord does not change!Isreal became a nation again,a prophecy 2000 years old,Isaiah 66:8-10,Acts 2:17 In the last days God shall pour out His Spirit on all flesh, and they shall PROPHESY.Even If a child of God prophesied over him and he seen it come to pass he would deny it because he’s in the flesh and the natural man cannot have the things of the Spirit Of God because they are foolishness to him,1Cor2:14.Thank God HE REMAINS THE SAME!JESUS is LORD!Hallelujah!
So, as a preterist, you don't believe Jesus when He said, "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then ALL the PEOPLES of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF THE HEAVENS TO THE OTHER." So you believe Jesus was just exaggerating when He said, "ALL the PEOPLES of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man...and He was not being quite truthful when He said, "he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF THE HEAVENS TO THE OTHER." Jesus REALLY meant ONLY people in and near Jerusalem will see the "Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven" and when He said, "his angels...will gather his elect from the FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF THE HEAVENS TO THE OTHER...He really meant Jerusalem. He was just saying, "from the FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF THE HEAVENS TO THE OTHER, for effect. I have read the "historical" accounts of Josephus and Tacitus, they were DEFINITELY NOT on a par with the Biblical account. You are basing what you believe on "this generation will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled" and then totally ignore " “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So, you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near-at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation (that sees these things start to unfold) will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."
Having been to a few churches over the last 40 years including charismatic ones especially when I was young, I heard about the miracles. In Nigeria. In Brazil. Over the sea somewhere. Whenever I am there, nothing. God could fix a headache. Someone's diarrhea. Make their leg grow. But God couldn't with all that same creative power, heal those many cripples and the blind. Never my broken back or ruined knee. I just wanted the truth, not games. Perhaps I should go to Haiti or Nigeria.
Dr. Brown, if EVERYTHING is LITERAL as YOU define it, then how come John the Baptist came and not ELIJAH? How come the Savior was named Yeshua/Yahshua and not Immanuel?! I could go on and on.....
at 1:30-131 dr brown gets no answer to his question because he's asking a hypothetical question.. which is really not fitting to ask a hypothetical in a debate (or even ever for that matter)
Let me also add the biblical text, states only the generation of the Christ receive the Holy Ghost, this is factual textual evidence.. When we look at the prophecy all of it talks about at the coming of the Christ they're closed their bloodline Covenant they would only be a scattered remnant of Israel now in Joel 232 it is the prophecy which is fulfilled in act two Twenty-One, the problem is the translators of the book of act seem to have left out the very most important part of the prophecy which is, only the remnant would receive the promise. You find this reiterated Again by Paul as he refers to Isaiah's prophecy concerning the coming of the Christ and Israel being as many of the sand of the sea but only the remnant receiving the promise. Paul repeats it yet again in Romans 11:7 all of the House of Israel was cut off and only the remnant received the promise.. Luke 21 22 says the Christ days are the days of Vengeance when all the prophecies written would be fulfilled.. Mister Michael Brown is in very bad shape
*How can either of these men be so ignorant to not realize that the thousand years (long period) BEGAN, BEGAN, BEGAN ca. 70AD (SOON), but did not end ca. 70 (NOT SOON)!?!?!*
So when they say to God one day is as a thousand years, what does that mean? I thought Satan is bound during 1000 years, how is that possible with the deception in the nations.
@@trumenfreight6055 that's not true and "to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;" does NOT mean everything has to come to pass shortly. That's a misreading of it. In fact, the thousand years is not even a last days event, it's a new age.
@@trumenfreight6055 ok you agree not EVERYTHING has to end shortly. Again though, the thousand years does come shortly, but ....... to come does not = to be over Also, if language is to be honored "thousand" has to be used to represent an immense nuimber. Milton Terry a professor of hermeneutics and a preterist thought it would take a MILLION YEARS.
Full Preterism works like this: they gather all prophetical data and put them together into a tight, coherent system. We should grant them that much. Their system is coherent, though not the only possible system. However, then they are confronted with the fact that the assembled prophecies were actually not fulfilled in the given time frame. Jesus did not return in 70 AD. Rather than rethink their system and consider alternatives (alternatives that maybe are not that tight in all details but still leave room for Jesus to fulfill his prophecies) they reinterpret what was actually prophesied just to retain the system. They do this in general and they do it to the Olivet Discourse and argue: "If Jesus said he would, he did." Of course, that way they will not convince anyone who's not already a Full Preterist. Even worse, they will convince many non-believers that a) Jesus's 2nd coming had to be within the generation and b) since that didn't happen, Jesus was a false prophet and c) finally, present the non-believer with a cheap promise: that the New Heaven and the New Earth are already there. If that is so,, if that is all, why bother with Christianity at all.
@@str.77 you asked "why bother with Christ at all?" Because the new covenant scripturally says there will still be evangelism, sin, births. Outside the spiritual temple (those outside or untold of the gospel will need evangelism). It's going to keep spreading!
@@Ben-qb4lj I actually said "why bother with Christianity at all". That being said, the point was not there isn't any evangelism, births or sin in the world, even after the new covenant has come (which BTW happened with Christ's crucifixion and resurrection) but that if that state is already the best we can expect, the whole promise is cheap and pointless. A world full of sin and death and misery is not a promise I'd call "good news". And evangelizing for this is also pointless, notvworth spreading. It would be like selling empty boxes. None of the martyrs would have died for that. However, the real gospel is indeed good news. With Christ's 2nd coming sin will end and death will be defeated. The last chapter of the Apocalypse clearly spells that out.
Timothy is still alive today keeping those commandments without spot and unrebukable UNTIL THE APPEARING OF OUR LORD JESUS,,,,Timothy is 2,000 years old hahahaha,hilarious,,why don't people believe what the Bible says instead of making Jesus out to be a liar ,,he said soon ,,,quickly, ,,,shortly and he meant it
Preterist have many things right. I think many go off when they start taking about spiritual gifts being done away with. I believe Mr Brown due to his Jewish background is bias in wanted to see a “physical” temple. But I would put up money no more temple is going to be buildt because that’s not what scripture says
I must add that John penned the revelation of Jesus Christ approx. 20 years after the a.d. 70 destruction of Jerusalem and what does it say in Chapter 1 verse 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; and in chapter 4 verse 1 he writes: After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. We were warned that false christs, prophets and teachers would come in the last days and 2 timothy chapter 4 also warns of false teachers and we are seeing a great living example of the fulfillment of those warnings. Stay in the Word more and less online with teachers and their videos. Believe the Words of God more than the charts drawn up by fallible men.
Enjoyed reading your comments. I don’t recall Dr. Brown even addressing Matt. 10:23 in which Yeshua told his disciples that they would not have gone throughout all the cities of Israel before he returned. Brown did use a few seconds dismissing Matt. 16:27,28 before rushing off to something else. However, just saying that the transfiguration follows the passage is insufficient. Yeshua was coming in glory, with angels and was to reward every man. Some of the disciples would have died. The transfiguration followed this by only six days and all the disciples were still alive. He did not come with angels then and men were not rewarded. Ignoring or dismissing the time statements of scripture is necessary for the success of Dispensationalism.
@Born at 33 "I do believe the words of God." What does that even mean? It is obvious that the Lord did not return in glory to judge the living and the dead in 70 AD. It is obvious that were are not living in the "New Heaven and New Earth". And you know perfectly well the evidence for the Apocalypse being seen after 70 AD. Irenaeus, the student of a student of John, told us so. But even if it was seen before 70 AD, this would not prove Full Preterism.
There needs to be a debate between Brown and a competent partial preterist. The "I will raise him up on the last day" argument in unanswerable in full preterism
@@davidford15 Sure. First, I was dispensational for 20 years and now partial preterist for 6. Therefore I believe that both men are wrong here. Dr. Brown rightly brings up the passage about the apostles being raised on the last day to debunk full preterism and his opponent can't explain away an apparently corporate, one time resurrection since his doctrine denies it. But just because Brown can debunk full preterism using the resurrection argument, that doesn't mean dispensationalism is true because partial preterists also hold to a future, corporate, bodily resurrection on the last day. What I wish to see is a competent partial preterist debate Brown. It seems he only debates full preterists like this man and Don Preston.
God's 7th day of resting from creating is still continuing. Is it possible that God resurrected and is resurrecting certain people, starting at the time of Jesus' resurrection, or maybe starting at the time of Jesus' return (which occurred before the end of A.D. 70)? "partial preterists also hold to a future, corporate, bodily resurrection on the last day" I'd think that *everyone* thinks that at-least some of Revelation has already occurred, e.g. the scene where the woman gave birth (to Jesus). Do you think the OT prophet Daniel has, or hasn't, been resurrected with a spiritual body?
@@davidford15 God didn't actually "rest". The Hebrew word there means "cease" not to be confused with "shabathown", the day of rest instituted with the giving of the manna in the wilderness. Jesus said, "my Father and I work to this day". As a partial preterist I would not say a.d. 70 was "the" return of Jesus. The parables which depict the event are described more as God "sending His armies". Caiaphas would obviously not see Jesus Himself but the "sign" of the Son of man coming in the clouds. That sign depicted that Jesus was actually in heaven, sitting at the right hand of the Father and vindicating those whom the Jews had persecuted. This "coming" should never be confused with the actual, literal, bodily appearing of Jesus in which we become "like Him because we see Him as He is". John was told to write things in the past, present, and future....we agree. But mystery Babylon and her fall is what the Roman siege was fulfilling. The harlot throughout the scriptures was always Israel who played the harlot resulting in God giving her a certificate of divorce which depicts the end of old covenant Israel as a nation. The 3 1/2 year long siege was literally the second half of Daniel's prophesied 70th week or Shabua ending in 70 a.d. There's no indication anywhere that I can see that would suggest Daniel was resurrected. After Jesus' resurrection, David was said to be "dead and buried and his tomb is with us to this day". So if I'm to believe the clear, non-parabolic teaching of Paul in 1 Cor 15 about "the" corporate, bodily resurrection in which all the saved receive immortal (spiritual) bodies at the last trump simultaneously, then I have no reason to think anyone has been resurrected to this very day except Christ who was the firstfruits.
@@contemplate-Matt.G But Jerusalem wasn't besieged for 3 1/2 years nor does Daniel 9 ever speak of the 70th week exactly divided into two equal halves, though the events of 70 AD indeed fulfilled some things spoken of in Daniel 9.
And let me also add I believe Mister Michael Brown even if he sees the truth will never admit it because he is more centered on a Messianic ideology of the book where he gets to try and gather his fellow Israelites which are not even on the planet anymore... They don't seem to comprehend got only made a covenant with the pure Seed of Abraham through Sarah Genesis 1719
Are you saying that the Jews in Israel who are White and European are not physical descendents of Abraham as Dr Elhaik proved in his DNA study? ... it can't be !!!
@@johno2277 what I am saying is they are mixed breeds God never made a covenant with mixed breeds. In numbers 36/7 through 9 they are to stay within their own house they cannot even marry between tribes, Adam ate the fruit from Satan's tree killed his own bloodline the day he ate he died, it wasn't the physical death it was the mixing of creation. So if you're just reading my post and you're not privy to all of these other elements that come together to bring the understanding that these people are not true is real, of course you're not going to understand
Michael Sullivan seems to forget Daniel 9:26-27 about the last seven of the seventy sevens (about the Abomination of Desolation). Remember, the numbering system for the verses and chapters and etc. are arbitrary and was added much later. When Gabriel (the archangel) mentioned the end in Daniel 9:26, I believe that to be the last seven years as described in the Book of Revelation. Rabbi Johnathan Cahn is one main proponent who saw this. Sorry Sullivan, you haven't gotten all the factors; otherwise, it would destroy your basis of logic.
Luke 21:20-32 is clear - the "desolation" (of Dan. 9:26-27/ Dan. 12), coming of Christ and the kingdom would be fulfilled in Jesus' contemporary "this generation." You and Brown have to invent a 3rd. Temple being "desolated" somewhere in the Olivet Discourse which is pure eisegesis to support your Charismatic Premillennialism. "Sad" or "fascinating" as Dr. Brown would say.
@@michaelsullivan6868 I personally don't believe the Luke passage to referring to the Second Temple Destruction, but I'm curious to know why you would otherwise interpret Luke 21:11, 25-26 differently when at the very beginning of Genesis 1:14 shows that celestial bodies are used for signs. Where do you draw the line between what is allegorical or literal?
Thanks for your part in the debate, Michael. I have enjoyed reading some of your writings, particularly your Preterist testimony located on your Full Preterism website. All your charts, particularly the Matt. 24=1 Thess. 4 / 1 Thess. 4=1 Cor. 15 / Matt. 24=1 Cor. 15 comparison charts are really helpful. I just saw there you have very long article about the debate with Dr. Brown. It will be a while before I can get to that but it is on my future reading list. Yeah, I was disappointed also that we could not see your power point slides. Dr. Brown is to be admired for his Christian activism but I am glad I have escaped his futuristic teaching. Blessings.
@@VGameL0v3e12sF012Ree I have a question for you....when Jesus told the Jews that their kingdom would be taken from them and given to a nation bearing its fruit, shouldn't that be taken literally? What about when He said that some standing there wouldn't taste of death till all those things He described would take place. Was that meant to be taken literally?
Boy, I really wanted Dr. Brown to start the debate by saying, "Can I lay hands on you, and invite the Holy Spirit to manifest on you right now in Jesus' Name..." Or giving him a prophetic word. Or healing him of back pain or something. Holy Spirit shows up and boom, end of debate. He had a bad experience? So let's give him a good experience, so his theology can start to follow reality.
To me, the clearest teacher of a preterist view is Dr. Lynn Hiles. He doesn’t get caught up in labels, but he lays it out in a 4 part series he recently did on his Facebook page (and now on his TH-cam channel). He clearly covers the beast, the mark of the beast, the number 666, and etc.
The Unforgiven Blasphemy As Matthew 12 begins to turn fully into the green-horse stage, the Lord declares the following: "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men" (Matthew 12:31) The word "Holy" in the phrase "Holy Ghost" was added by the King James translators and does not appear in the original Greek text, and the word "Ghost" was translated from the Greek word pneuma meaning "spirit". Therefore, the phrase "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost" in the verse above should have been translated as "blasphemy against the spirit". It is important to bear this in mind as we meditate on this verse (and the verse that follows it, Matthew 12:32). To better understand the meaning behind Matthew 12:31, we must first consider two of the words used by the Spirit in this verse. The words "sin" and "blasphemy" were translated from the Greek nouns hamartia and blasphemia, which, interestingly enough, only appear together in 3 verses in all of Scripture. Both other times, Mark 2:7 and Luke 5:21, these words appear in the context of the religious leaders questioning a man's authority to forgive: "4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. 6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, 7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? 8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? 9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) 11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. 12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion." (Mark 2:4-12) Notice how the scribes considered it a blasphemy for Yeshua to claim that He could forgive sins. Notice also that Yeshua did not reply by saying that He, as the "Only Begotten Son of God" did have the authority to forgive sins. Instead, He responded that the "son of man" did indeed have "exousia authority on Earth to forgive sins" (v11). In other words, Yeshua appealed to His humanity to validate His authority to forgive sins. The stubbornly religious scribes of today, who do not deem themselves worthy (Acts 13:46) of Oneness with God, however, may want to argue that the phrase "son of man" was nothing more than a "code phrase" used by Yeshua to refer to the "Old-Testament" prophesies of a coming Messiah. Pious and "relieving" as this baseless (yet popular) explanation may be, Scripture clearly shows that the phrase "son of man" is not some sort of magical code phrase to refer to one and only one individual in human history, as shown by the following passage: "21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." (John 20:21-23) Fittingly enough, the King James translators soulishly bungled the translation of verse 23, using the word "remit" to translate the Greek verb aphiemi, which is the same verb that they correctly translated as "forgiven" in Matthew 12:31 and in all the other verses where it is applied to "sin" in the New Testament. In other words, the original Greek text actually reads, "Whose so ever sins you forgive, they are forgiven unto them", but, just as the scribes of Yeshua's earthly days, the King James scribes found it blasphemous to say such a thing, even when it was being said by God Himself in the Scriptures right in front of them. Considering that the passage above appears in the only Gospel that refers to Yeshua as the "Only Begotten Son of God" (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 3:18) and the only book that describes Him as such more than once, it is safe to conclude that Yeshua was indeed referring to restored man in general, not just to His historical self, when He said that the "son of man" had the authority to forgive sins. Otherwise, why would He declare that His disciples, who were also "sons of men", had the authority to forgive sins, and even the authority to "retain", i.e.- not to forgive sins (John 20:23)? It is worth noting that Yeshua declared the disciples' authority to forgive sins after He had blown on them and had told them to receive the Holy Spirit. This means that that authority is not inherent in natural man (the first Adam) but is instead inherent in the resurrected, last-Adam Spirit nature (Colossians 3:1-10, Ephesians 4:24) that is placed in us when we are born again and which gets activated when we walk in Him. Hence, if anyone objects to you forgiving or "retaining" sins whilst you are operating in your last-Adam nature, they are actually objecting to the Spirit of God. By objecting, they are denying God's regeneration work in you, and they are claiming that Yeshua's blow on His disciples (described in John 20:21-23) was nothing more than a meaningless, ineffectual farce. It is then that the person objecting to you begins to enter into dangerous territory, especially if that person claims to worship Jesus and follow the God of the Bible. From the above, we can see that the religious leaders' accusation of blasphemy against Yeshua was actually a reflection of their own blasphemy against the Spirit, a blasphemy that became evident as the green-horse stage began to settle in over them. As we have shared before, the green-horse stage sees the earthly leadership morphing into a "bald" Korah that has been exposed for what they are: nothing more than a soulish, earthly leadership with no true covering or manifestation of the Spirit that they claim to uphold. It is at this point, after their spiritual disguise has been removed, that they and those who follow them are placed in a position of great accountability, for the excuses to not recognise their nakedness are all but gone. It is at this point where any indictment of those who are truly covered in the Spirit becomes a great, great offence against God Himself, and this is when the consequences of this offence turn inerasable and "unforgiveable". To better understand what this lack of forgiveness is all about, we must delve a little more into the nature of the blasphemy that the Lord refers to in Matthew 12:31-32. shamah-elim.info/a/sabbath4.htm
Do you agree with me that this already occurred?: Revelation 12 (KJV), www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12&version=KJV 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
@@thereisnopandemic "this verse in Revelation... seems to have a Preteristic world view" Do you think Rev 11:1-2 was written before, or after, the temple's destruction? Revelation 11 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/revelation/11.htm 1 And a reed was given to me like a rod and the Angel was standing and said, "Rise and measure the Temple of God and the altar and those who worship in it," 2 "And the inner court of the Temple leave out and do not measure it, because that is given to the Gentiles, and they will trample The Holy City forty two months. 3 "And I shall grant my two witnesses to prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days while wearing sackcloth."
Do we even have to entertain the absurdity of preterism. 2 Timothy 2:23 King James Version (KJV) 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
Transformation of the Bride We do! Dr Brown said it. It’s dangerous! We not only have to entertain it, we have to crush it like Dr Brown did. Stomp it out. A little spark can lead to a forest fire. Stomp it, spit on it, pour water on it, get a fire extinguisher expel its entire contents, then smash it with the fire extinguisher.
This generation will see it. Some of you standing here will see Jesus coming on the clouds. (judgement of Jerusalem) Jesus said to the high priest, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”. The high priest himself would be alive when Jesus came back. That is why he rent his clothes - he knew only God comes in the clouds for judgement. The high high priest knew exactly what Jesus was saying. You don't. Nor does the good doctor. He called it blasphemy. Jesus straight up said he would come back in their lifetimes. It is all over the new testament. Where is the heresy?
Brother Michael, how about debating someone who is competent in their theology and debate? This guy is really just a "sraw man" in the flesh for you to easily knock down. That's a technique that you often seem to employ. If you would debate someone who is actually competent when you don't have absolute control of "the mic" and stifle response it would be good.
I’m hardcore conservative Christian. I’m not willing to concede that the gifts have stopped as I have been prophecied over which came to pass and edified my relationship with Christ. That being said I have seen MANY MANY people abuse the notion of spiritual gifts to a point of sacrilege.
Are you part of a church where you stand next to ppl who abuse it? Do you know of a church where as a church the gifts are only expressed like how Paul has commanded in 1 Corinthians?
His church ,the body. Yes not Israel. The Bible never mentions the kingdom of Israel. Only the kingdom of God or Heaven. Is not the church part of the kingdom of God.
Anyone teaching the Gifts ceased and yet still claim Pastoral positions are false teachers and though may be ignorant to their error but they are liars.
No one today is raising the dead ,,healing the maimed,,,healing the sick ,,healing the diseases,,,,or any other healing ,,,bunch of liars know they can not do that anymore because God said its ceased
@@Wholetruth2024 No He did not and the reason people like you don't see these things occurring is because your weak in faith and require a sign to believe. The gifts were given to prepare the bride to endure until the end unfortunately the false teachers who say God is different today then he was when the church was started is why the masses don't see the gifts operate because ONLY SOME ARE GIVEN AS APOSTLES PROPHETS PREACHERS AND TEACHERS IF THE GIFTS DONT OPERATE TODAY THEN NEITHER DOES ANY OF THE LEADERSHIP GIFTS INCLUDING WHATEVER PROFFESSING PASTOR YOU FOLLOW SCRIPTURE DAYS IN THE END THE BLIND LEADERS WILL LEAD THE BLIND INTO A DITCH IM CONCERNED THE MANY THAT WILL GALL AWAY MAY INCLUDE THOSE WHO BELIEVE AS YOU DO.
@@Wholetruth2024 I'm sorry who are the Liars those who actually believe God is still the same today as He was yesterday and the centuries before back to creation that same God can and still is what He's always been you error in your understanding thinking men do those works and to say God doesn't can't or won't doesn't make those of us that trust in the only True God the liars. Unfortunately those who have chased the doctrines of man and devils making God something He clearly isn't. It is surprising how many people today think God can't perform miracles and wonders gove knowledge wisdom and understanding to those HE Chooses to prepare the bride. You make a huge error in claiming God doesn't or can't do something so much to me it could be judged as blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.
@@shawnembrey1118 1 Corinthians 13 :8-10 it's ceased ,it's vanished away,,so don't say those gifts don't cease ,,,you are not raising the dead anymore ,,,it's not happening, God said so
Full preterism is heresy if you ask me. Michael Brown did an excellent job at representing the scriptures. Michael Sullivan did an excellent job at distorting the scriptures.
"because it makes 100s of prophecies lies. .... And it makes Jesus a liar" 3 instances? "Read the book of revelation" I've read it. Do you agree with me that the writer of Revelation stated that Jesus [Rev 1:7]"cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him"? Do you agree with me that the writers of James and Revelation thought [James 5:8]"the coming of the Lord draweth nigh"? Rev 1 (KJV) 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants *things which must shortly come to pass;* and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: .... 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for *the time is at hand.* .... 7 Behold, *he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, **and they also which pierced him:** and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.* Even so, Amen. Rev 22 6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants *the things which must shortly be done. * 7 Behold, *I come quickly: * blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. .... 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for *the time is at hand.* .... 12 And, behold, *I come quickly;* and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. .... 20 He which testifieth these things saith, *Surely I come quickly.* Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. James 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. *Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.* James 5:7-9 7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for *the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.* 9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, *the judge standeth before the door.*
@@davidford15 this is way too much to correct in a post but if you'd like to email me at garland240@gmail.com and share a conversation over the phone id be more than happy to correct this. I'm actually going to start a video for TH-cam on it. Preterism has now reached me hometown and needs addressing. But just for the sake of simple background on how Jesus could validly through scripture prophecy to a future generation and yet partially through the one he was in at that time refer to Deuteronomy 18:15, note who Moses addresses and who it is reference to considering Joshua, the same name as Jesus. Then refer to Deuteronomy 34:9-12. Joshua himself acknowledges that prophecy was about him yet it was unfulfilled. To have correct spiritual understanding of scripture, which preterist DO NOT have in FULL requires understanding patterns and ALL of these are rooted in the books of Moses. Really they're all rooted in Genesis. EVERY doctrine will be approved or denied through Genesis alone. Not to mention the fact that Revelation was written in the 90s and this is well accounted for. When some clown comes later and tells you world war ii occurred in the 1800s directly after the civil war you need to run. I hate to sound harsh, but I love the Lord and his word as much as I love my family and kids and I will proudly defend them against error. I love my fellow brethren saved or unsaved but I will correctly and righteously(regarding morally) rebuke false teaching out of care the same as I would the actions of my kids or brothers and sisters . Preterism when you really digest is it blasphemy and heresy and destroys faith and hope. If you see faith and hope in the beliefs of preterism you are deluded and worship in vain as Isaiah said
Mr. Brown appeals to church "fathers" so-called and to tradition, but does not address audience relavance or the context of who Jesus was talking to (his disciples), and by that context, that wicked generation, not our generation. Mr. Brown's only strong argument is "look around" and you will know we are not in the Kingdom? That's not an argument from scripture. This is just presumption of what the Kingdom is about. Jesus said it would be within us, not "look around" or "it's a physical Kingdom for sure" so keep looking. No. Jesus said we would worship the Father in spirit and truth, and that Jesus and Father would be the temple and city. Christians today are still looking forward to something that was already fulfilled.
Sorry friend, your position simply confirms a warning that Paul gave to us and that is not to forget the ROOT that supports you. Your position shows a complete lack of understanding in how the Jews both wrote and understood prophecy. Prophecy is pattern with multiple fulfillments with an ultimate fulfillment. God bless.
@Dave Appleton You and other millennialists just made that up. There is absolutely no justification for multiple types: physical > spiritual > physical, etc. Paul says first the physical, then the spiritual. 1 Cor. 15 is about the end of Torah which is the sting of death (clearly sin death, since Paul has no other teachings about physical death being conquered). All his teaching is about sin. 2 Timothy 4:1 says that "Christ Jesus, who is about to (mello) judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom.” The appearance of the full Kingdom is the coming down of the new Jerusalem from above (it is the full creation of the Christian Age and the dissolving of the Old Covenant age). This is an age without end, but you are instead positing an end of this Christian Age. That is some strange theology that is nowhere found in the scriptures. This Christian age (Jesus’ age to come) clearly arrived before some standing in front of our Lord had died. Unless you want to argue that Christ was a false prophet-there’s simply no way to get around His statements. This judgment was for their generation (per Matthew 23), which clearly tells us that it was for those leaders living at that time who were soon to be judged. Christ himself made that very clear, but you are trying to make something that is crystal clear, muddy and unclear. This is the judgement of the living and the dead for killing both our Lord and his prophets. This is the time of vindication of God’s saints. This is their (Israel’s/Judah’s) end time harvest when those wicked servants would be judged and the King would come and destroy their city. Or do you not know the parables? This is when they as chaff and weeds would be burned up. The first fruits came in the first century (obviously), and this clearly implies that the harvest was already in progress-as per Christ's own words. Or do you despise his words? Once the harvest begins, it doesn't take long to end. This harvest is both judgment and resurrection. And all the Apostles make this clear that they were living in the last days and hours of that age. Is that not clear in their writings? Have you not read those passages in their first century context? Your reasoning is clearly not what is found in the scriptures. And you are going against Christ's own plain words of the harvest being ready. John the Baptist said it was ready and about to come (wrath and cutting down) winnowing fork, etc. (all harvest terms). You have to worm and wiggle your way in around all these plain teachings of Christ and others merely to justify a physical future sci-fi bodies-flying-out-of-graves scenario-which clearly shows both desperation and confusion. If you take the time and are truly honest with the text and yourself, and put away the cognitive dissonance (as well as pride), you will know the truth of Christ’s statements and be set free. How can you ignore the harvest language and the parables? How can you take the judging of the living and the dead and separate it by a two thousand year (and counting) gap? About to come doesn’t mean two thousand years. The axe was already at the root two thousand years ago. Your position is untenable. You cannot stand against Christ’s own words and win this argument.
@@fullpreteristnow Everything starts in the spirit where God is and then comes to the flesh where we are. Creation was created in the spirit first and then 2nd chapter of Genesis shows how gave life to everything created in the spirit. So before Jesus christ when people died they didn't go to heaven because a place was not made for them, everyone went to sheol. When Jesus came and said 'the kingdom of God is at hand" it means he is the one going to prepare a place for us with him in heaven. So the kingdom is a place where God dwells and Jesus has made a way for us to be with him. Your also right in saying when you have Jesus you have the kingdom with you but don't forget it is also place where we will go after this life.
@@fullpreteristnow I thank God for the day he opened my eyes to the Truth (so I believe :) ) . The Bible just flows in perfect context. The parables in Matthew 21-22 are so obvious now. Did a long lecture study with Ken Gentry, he opened by eyes initially.
Dr. Brown sides with the literal understanding of scripture that Dispensationalists adhere to in the current day American culture. Being such, it is easy for him to seemingly prove a point with a barrage of scripture texts taken out of context. Mr. Sullivan appears to interpret scripture considering audience relevance, the historical settings of the scripture and the figures of speech employed during the Biblical time and culture. As I have experienced myself, this takes a lot of time and study but yields a more proper apprehension of truth. The understanding of Preterism will likely come hard to most as they, like me, have grown up in a church culture that has never questioned their Dispensationalism. Particularly they have never dealt honestly with the numerous time statements such as soon, at hand, shortly, quickly, little while, will not tarry, last hour and Yeshua’s own promise in Revelation where he stated several times that he was coming quickly. During Ezekiel’s day the same problem arose when the Jews denied the significance of the time statements. God then made this promise: “For I am Yahweh. I will speak, and the word that I speak shall come to pass. It shall be no more prolonged. For in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, says the Lord Yahweh” (Ezk. 12:25). God does not prolong his promises. Sullivan alluded to this passage but did not have the time to develop it. Brown took delight in his knowledge that a few Preterists have changed their view. I take delight that I am one of an untold multitude that have ditched the failed predictions Dispensationalists have made in the past 50 years. Thanks to both Brown and Sullivan for having this debate. I love debates, the church needs more of them.
AMEN! God opened my eyes just in December about futurism. Something seemed strange about no rapture in Scripture or teaching, no 3rd temple, all the endless dates set that never happened. Then Luke 21 20 hit me one night. "Wait! That's happened in 66ad!"
I also grew up as a Pentecostal for 25 years I was also a dispensationlist. And the words you said is very true. It took me a lot of studying to end up a Preterist. I remember being afraid that I was going to “blaspheme the Holy Spirit” by the road I was taking. Myself I don’t love debates, because in majority of cases no one is convinced. Both sides always think they won, and I’m not talking about the debaters. I’m talking talking about the groupies in the crowd.
why is it that preterists almost always assume everyone who opposes preterism is a dispenationalist? Dr. Brown doesn't even believe in a pre-trib rapture.
Hi, Dr. Brown. I also have a question. How do you interpret Isaiah 65:17-25? If this "new heaven and new earth" refers to the same thing as in Revelation 21:1, then aren't they radically different portrayals of what it will be like? Especially, Isaiah 65:20,22 implies that people will not live forever, and thus is in direct contradiction with Revelation 21:4.
Mauri Sombowadile They don’t refer to the exact same thing. Isaiah barely distinguishes between the two, because his perspective centers on Israel’s future, but notice that there are two “For behold I create” phrases representing two different future eras, the first representing Rev 21:1, the final state of glory, and the second representing Rev 20:4, the millennial reign. The final state does not have death, but the millennial reign does.
@amos6235 they are not different. The substance of both of the passages are the same. There are not 2 different NH&NE in our future. There is 1 and we are in it. John mentioning the NH&NE would prompt his readers to automatically think of Isa 65&66 and realize that the NH&NE long foretold of was just about to be a reality. Premillennialism of every stripe is a laughable mess.
I'm still not completely sold on full preterism. I think it still has a few difficulties to overcome although I am tending to lean more that way than to full futurism which I just find scripturally untenable. I thought that Michael Sullivan made some good scriptural arguments that Dr. Brown could not refute from scripture. All in all a very good, open and robust debate. Very welcome in these times.
If God gave me the Holy Ghost 43 years ago and caused me to speak in other tongues for about 20 minutes, and the "wind" (John 3:8) blew the fumes of sinful attitudes, emotions and desires out of my heart, and refreshed my soul with His emotions (Gal 5:22-23), and if millions of other believers all over the world have been baptized in Jesus name and received the same Holy Ghost with initial evidence of tongues, and if people are still praying in private prayer anointed by God to pray In tongues, and if people are still prophesying and interpreting other tongues during church services, and if people who don't understand the language of a local assembly of a church are hearing a message in their own language, then 1Cor 13:8 prophecy has not happened yet, tongues, knowledge and prophecy have not ceased because Jesus ("that which is perfect") has not come yet.
I don’t think God ever will give me that gift, not that he couldn’t if he really wanted to. It just terrifies me. I’ve heard some people talking in tongues and they were actually speaking in Arabic, and blaspheming Jesus. Scary. I ask God for gifts but not that one. What if I mess it up and blaspheme him in Arabic? Nope. I’d rather have prophecy or anything else. I’d rather be crucified than have that gift. Crucified. The word that is the core word of excruciating. I have other gifts. Seeing beauty in all. Being touched by scripture and weeping with all of it. The happy and the sad. The triumphant. Loving all people, even those that hate me. That’s a good gift. I cried with a stranger over them finding out they had cancer and I was a cashier at Walmart and prayed over her. In public. I didn’t get embarrassed. I just did what I was supposed to do. I hope it helped. Never saw her again. I just don’t want to mess up a gift and make it the opposite.
Thats a lot of ifs and they are all experiential. If i think people who speak in tongues are delusional, are they? They certainly appear to be chaotic noodles
@@Unknown-ln5ly The remnant is part of the original, therefore there is no replacement. What don't your understand about the word "remnant"? You need to read and understand what the scriptures say, not willy nilly make things up.
@@fullpreteristnow I don't quite know what Remnant you are referring to. But I do know Paul refers to Israel, for he himself saya that G-d has not totally forsaken His physical Israel , but has kept himself a Remnant. If he does not, then He would be a liar & not trustworthy of our worship. When He says forever, that is what he means. Yeshua talked about the fold, the Jewish people with whom he spoke in John 10. He added that there was another fold, thise scattered among the nations as well as those who added themselves to them- a mixed multitude. Shalom
@@Unknown-ln5ly You should know all about the remnant, if you read your Bible. Paul in Romans 9:27 quotes Isaiah 10:22f from the Septuagint: Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the *remnant* will be saved. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.” Jesus and the Apostles constantly quoted from Isaiah and other O.T. passages about the hope of Israel, the regathering of both Judah and Israel to God. The *remnant* is from both Israel and Judah. Obviously this was happening in the first century, and the final judgment on the city that slew our Lord, would happen when the power of the holy people would be shattered (per Daniel). Here’s Isaiah 10:22f: In that day the *remnant* of Israel, the survivors of Jacob, will no longer rely on him who struck them down but will truly rely on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. 21 A remnant will return, a *remnant* of Jacob will return to the Mighty God. 22 Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel, only a *remnant* will return. *Destruction has been decreed* (See Daniel also), overwhelming and righteous. 23 The Lord, the Lord Almighty, will carry out the *destruction decreed upon the whole land.* Upon the entire land came desolation, including of course, the Temple and Jerusalem. God’s chosen people had now become his enemies and AD70 was the end of Daniel’s 70 weeks. However, he also saved, via the Messiah, a *remnant.* This is why Jesus warned his followers to flee the city when they saw it surrounded. They would be the remnant, along with those gathered from all nations. Again, Daniel decreed the desolation of the city and its temple, by the end of the 70 weeks (70 weeks are determined). Paul quotes Isaiah 11:10 in Romans 15:12. And when you read Isaiah 11, note the reoccurring phrase, “in that day” used over and over. It is a reference back to the “the day of the Lord” which Christ said would be judgment that he would bring instead (in the place) of his father. Isaiah 11:10f says: In ”that day” the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious. In ”that day” the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving ”remnant” of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean. In ”that day” the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving ”remnant” of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush,from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean. He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of ”Israel;” he will assemble the scattered people of ”Judah” from the four quarters of the earth. Ephraim’s jealousy will vanish, and Judah’s enemies will be destroyed; Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah, nor Judah hostile toward Ephraim. Paul stresses that the saved will be made up of both Jews and Gentiles But you should know this. Why do you not know this?
@@Unknown-ln5ly You should know all about the remnant, if you read your Bible. Paul in Romans 9:27 quotes Isaiah 10:22f from the Septuagint: Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the *remnant* will be saved. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.” Jesus and the Apostles constantly quoted from Isaiah and other O.T. passages about the hope of Israel, the regathering of both Judah and Israel to God. The *remnant* is from both Israel and Judah. Obviously this was happening in the first century, and the final judgment on the city who slew our Lord, would happen when the power of the holy people would be shattered (per Daniel). Here’s Isaiah 10:22f: In that day the *remnant* of Israel, the survivors of Jacob, will no longer rely on him who struck them down but will truly rely on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. 21 A remnant will return, a *remnant* of Jacob will return to the Mighty God. 22 Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel, only a *remnant* will return. *Destruction has been decreed* (See Daniel also), overwhelming and righteous. 23 The Lord, the Lord Almighty, will carry out the *destruction decreed upon the whole land.* Upon the entire land came desolation, including of course, the Temple and Jerusalem. God’s chosen people had now become his enemies and AD70 was the end of Daniel’s 70 weeks. However, he also saved, via the Messiah, a *remnant.* This is why Jesus warned his followers to flee the city when they saw it surrounded. They would be the remnant, along with those gathered from all nations. Again, Daniel decreed the desolation of the city and its temple, by the end of the 70 weeks (70 weeks are determined). Paul quotes Isaiah 11:10 in Romans 15:12. And when you read Isaiah 11, note the reoccurring phrase, *in that day* used over and over. It is a reference back to the *the day of the Lord* which Christ said would be judgment that he would bring instead (in the place) of his father. Isaiah 11:10f says: In *that day* the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious. In *that day* the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving *remnant* of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean. In *that day* the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving *remnant* of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush,from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean. He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of *Israel;* he will assemble the scattered people of *Judah* from the four quarters of the earth. Ephraim’s jealousy will vanish, and Judah’s enemies will be destroyed; Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah, nor Judah hostile toward Ephraim. Paul stresses that the saved will be made up of both Jews and Gentiles (a people who are not my people), a group Paul was specifically called to preach the gospel of the end of that age. A gospel, not only of salvation, but of destruction to soon come (about to come, Greek "mello"). But you should know this. Why do you not know this?
I think the great problem some of these debaters have is that in the opening statements they start comparing what they think with what their contender thinks. In my opinion, it is better if the debater just expose what is their interpretation on the topic. It becomes personal from the very beginning instead of argumentative. The audience needs to weight the facts and the reasons and this kind of "this or that guy agrees with me" "My condender says this or that" say nothing. I have no problem with partial preterism, but full preterism has to explain why there are many other aspects in the bible does not allow to exhaust waht pertains to the new creation, like goodness reigning on earth not by some metaphorical reality based on the regeneration of our spiritual being while we still are in a corrupt physical body. Do they alegorize the elements being burning with fire as Peter said? Peter mentioned the flood in the very same passage. Does that mean that the flood in Genesis was metaphorical too? If this is about something metaphorical/spiritual reality brought by the gospel so Jesus is not to come to transform our bodies and the physical reality, Are they insinuating that matter is some kind of evil reality or at least a simple mean to serve some kind of purpose? What about the evil remaining on earth? Is evil everlasting as the righteousness? How isn't that what taoism teaches (Ying Yang philosophy)? The church, which is the interpretative community of the Scriptures, never accepted this, all on the contrary. What I notice about this interpretation is a subliminal insertion of gnostic ideas with taoism. Something is simply not right.
Instead of listening to what the atttack dogs say about Full preterists listen to what they say. Churches,creeds, councils often contradict each other, so don't be scared. Gnostic interpretations about matter being evil and so on - no one I know believes that old canard. New heavens and earth, the new Jerusalem - as Mr Sullivan clearly stated and you asked (did you even listen?) - is where perfection resides no death, no sin etc, and sin and evil is outside that city at the same time. Look it up in Revelation yourself. "Blessed are those who wash their robes,[c] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood" I am not going through your list - you can listen again, this time listen perhaps.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
@Samuel Lev Twisting the Scriptures to fit your narrative is very dangerous. Full preterism is heretical because it assumes that Jesus has already returned, contrary to Matt. 24:23-26: *_false prophesy_*
Important fact we all may have overlooked: The 1000 years of Rev. 20:1-5 was not EARTH TIME, it was HEAVENLY TIME, and Heavenly time is defined in 2 Peter 3:8 as we all know: “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” Peter was quoting the Psalms: "For a thousand years in Your sight are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night." Psalm 90:4 Revelation 20:4 (KJV) 4 …and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,…, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, …and they lived and reigned WITH Christ a thousand years. If you want to fit all of Revelation into a short period of history (shortly come to pass, and the time is at hand Rev.22:10) and INCLUDE THE millennium, go read about the Bar Kockba rebellion in 133 AD, and then think "Gog and Magog." And then realize the Great White Throne judgment was for souls who were under the law, "and they were judged according to THEIR WORKS." Rev.20:12 I submit the hypothesis that the new heaven and earth is now and death (spiritual death) and Hades are no more!
The way the 2nd guy is debating is in a manner to make the other view sound stupid and ludicrous. It's a tactic to use his tone to make the other viewpoint sound silly.
2 timothy 2:8 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. Wow praise the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 God bless you brother brown
Dearest John, If the 1st-century believers were taught and understood that the resurrection was to be the reanimation of decayed human flesh, how could anyone have possibly suggested that the resurrection had already taken place. All they needed to do was go see if the bones were missing. Can you see my point?
You mean people in the first century could not have simply gone to the graves and had a look? Something about the resurrection tale could not be what futurists today say it is, right?
Every promise is conditional: the "if" statements run from Genesis to Revelation. Where does Michael Brown get that idea that covenants are not conditional? Certainly not from the scriptures.If they are not conditional, then why the curses of Deut. and Leviticus and elsewhere? The land for Christians (for no one else), is the "heavenly country" and a "heavenly city" a better one than the old. One that does not perish. The same one Abraham looked forward to.
@J DV I did and they say that God was a husband to her and that she became a whore-an adulterer. Therefore God said that she would be killed-stoned. The marriage was a covenant and she violated that covenant. A reading of Ezek. 16 alone should be enough. Or have you read that?
Mr. Brown, Satan is not deceiving people, but you certainly are, with all your presuppositions about the resurrection of the dead. Paul no where posits in all his writings, the idea of going from physical death to physical life in the manner you describe, so why would he suddenly talk about a new kind of resurrection in 1 Cor. 15. He wouldn't. The N.T. is about a relationship which is a spiritual awakening and identity with Christ: obedience. That is the resurrection. It is a resurrection from sin/death, to life in Christ, and because of Christ. His physical resurrection is the way into that life and relationship. This is the conclusion at the end of 1 Cor. 15, that death has been swallowed up. It absolutely has nothing to do with a new concept of bodily resurrection (to the first century), even if that was what the early church "fathers" thought and taught. Let's get back to what the bible teaches, not the creeds.
@J DV If I'm deceived, then the Apostle Paul was also, since he wrote in 1 Corinthians that the resurrection was currently taking place in the first century. In the greek, the present indicative passive verbs clearly show a raising (presently to Paul) of the dead ones (literally what the greek says). Paul's powerful argumentation refutes the position of the "some" who denied the resurrection of the “dead ones.” This passage also refutes a future raising, since it was presently happening when Paul wrote. 1 Corinthians 15 contains many instances of abuse of the present passive tense, where translators ignored, weakened, or changed the tense because of their biases. This "rising" was already in progress when Paul wrote these words, which rules out a resurrection of fleshly bodies out of the dirt sometime in our future. Here are just a few of these mistranslations of present passives in I Corinthians 15: v2-"By which ye are saved" should be translated, "by which ye are being saved," depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote. v12 -''Now if Christ is preached," should be, "Now if Christ is being preached," depicting a process in progress when Paul wrote. v15-"We are found false witnesses ... if the dead do not rise'' should be "we are being found false witnesses if the dead ones are not being raised," depicting an ongoing process, when Paul wrote. v 16-"If the dead are not raised" should be "if the dead ones are not being raised,” depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote. v26-"The last enemy that will be destroyed" should be "the last enemy that is being destroyed" [there is simply no excuse for this, and all the popular translations do it], depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote, not something way off yonder at the end of time. One has to wonder if Paul wasn't speaking of some death other than physical death, which was not being destroyed as Paul spoke, as physical death hasn't been destroyed even yet, two thousand years later. v32-"If the dead are not raised" should be "if the dead ones are not being raised," depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote. v35-"How are the dead raised, and with what manner of body do they come" should be "how are the dead ones being raised and with what manner of body are they coming," depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote. Notice also the singular body (not bodies) that the dead ones are being raised in. Rather than biological bodies rising at some future time, as is popularly viewed, Paul spoke of one body being raised in his present time. What do we do with that? Dislike it? Say it can't be right? Say Paul misspoke? Deny he said it? Wish he hadn't said it? Try to get around it? Don't tell anyone he said it? Apologize for what he said and say something else? Perhaps “speaking like the Bible speaks” would be the appropriate treatment. v42-44-"It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption; it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body," should be "it is being sown in corruption; it is being raised in incorruption; it is being sown in dishonor; it is being raised in glory; it is being sown in weakness; it is being raised in power; it is being sown a natural body; it is being raised a spiritual body." Note that both the simultaneous sowing and raising of this singular body are depicted as ongoing processes as Paul wrote. The sowing is going on while the raising is occurring. How does one get around the Greek, if they are being honest?
THE BIBLE IS THE STORY of Yahweh's fulfilled plan of redemption given exclusively to ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant law of sin and death and pertains to no one alive today, soteriologically nor eschatologically speaking. ~ Joseph Rohland Here's more... IF YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE, then you'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 15:24, that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH JESUS in Matthew 5:18, that not one jot nor tittle of the (Old Covenant) law would pass away until the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with (what Jews referred to as "heaven and earth") passed away. YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH HISTORY, that the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it passed away in AD 70. YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH PAUL, who said in Romans 5:13, "Where there is no (Old Covenant) law, sin is not taken into account." This of course means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which was only ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant law of sin and death, which is not us today. YOU'D ALSO HAVE TO AGREE WITH HEBREWS 9:15, that redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant, which again...is not us today. THE BITTER PILL OF TRUTH, is that no one has been saved nor redeemed for nearly two thousand years. The "church today" has been in a massive error; a complete hijacking of ancient Israel's exclusive and fulfilled redemptive narrative, the Bible. "BUT...BUT...I'M A GENTILE!" Are you? The gentiles Paul and the disciples were preaching to were either Greek converts to Judaism, or the elect diaspora , grafted-in descendants of the tribes of Israel who were dispersed among the nations. Through the ministry of the disciple's great commission, they were called out from the nations to again be a holy nation of kings and priests, sealed for the day of redemption, which only they lived to see. Nobody today is a gentile of that sort. TODAY'S SELF-APPOINTED, SELF-PROFESSING "CHRISTIANS" have been hoodwinked into believing they're sinners under a law that passed away, and need a savior who he came for someone else, who will save them from a sin that's already been removed and a judgement that already happened and allow them into a covenant that was made with someone else. The fact is, we today were never and will never be part of ancient Israel's exclusive and fulfilled redemptive narrative, the Bible.~Michael Bradley And as always...END THE FED!
@@contramundum2.0paradigmshi10 The Lord said to the Jews, you will not see me again until you say Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord and also He is coming on the Mount of Olives. The Jews have to be in the land for that to happen.
You realize what would happen if a star fell to the earth right!!? And if the sun literally stop giving it’s light? And the moon ? C’mon man lol, you go ahead and keep waiting for Superman or the avengers.. which is where all these movies get their Ideas from.
"What language..." over and over again. This trick does not work Brown. Sullivan answered the question and you did not respect.his answer. He accepted the language in its context. Neither Sullivan nor you nor anybody else should be speculating about any other language when coming to Scriptures.
Daniel in ch 12 wrote of the time of distress for the Israel, also the resurrection. The prophesy of Daniel 12 was fulfilled in the generation which Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24. So if Matthew 24 which Jesus is quoting Daniel 12, how is the resurrection and the coming of Jesus in a distant yet future. What does it mean that Jesus said he would come back before the apostle go through all of Israel Matt. 10:23.
In Daniel it says the kingdom will be given to the saints and they will rule forever and ever, also Jesus said the disciples will rull over the 12 tribes of Israel. Has this happened?
Sullivan's view is the view consistent with scripture and teachings of the apostles... Brown's view is the view consistent with modern christian church culture . two totally different things really even though they both look similar on the surface
An important note on Irenaeus, a popular preterist talking point: Preterists are either being extremely disingenuous regarding Irenaeus, or they are unaware that Irenaeus wrote not once but twice in his work 'Against Heresies' that John survived into the time of TRAJAN and not just Domitian. How then can there be any question about whether he was referring to John's vision or to John himself being seen near the end of Domitian's reign? At best this is sloppy scholarship. At worst it's a willful deceiving of those who haven't read up on Irenaeus. That's like if you had a grandparent who passed away in 1995, and you said they were seen almost in our day towards the end of Ronald Reagan's presidency in the United States. Reagan obviously left office in the 80's so it makes no sense to relegate their life to an earlier time when they lived beyond that time frame. Here is the quote: “We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For [it or he] was seen not very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.” - Saint Irenaeus, Adversus haereses 5, 30, 3 And yes, Irenaeus got Jesus' age wrong on account of a faulty interpretation of John 8:57. But to then make the claim on a completely unrelated topic that it is also suspect thanks to this error has yet to be extended to any other writer that I'm aware of. It's the 'Irenaeus treatment', as I like to call it. Let me ask you this, the reader if you're a preterist, have you ever misinterpreted a verse? If so, does that disqualify you indefinitely from ever making a true statement? Is everything else you've ever said automatically wrong thanks to your misinterpretation of a Bible passage? If the answer is no, then why is this supposedly the case with Irenaeus? Has every written statement by Josephus or others preterists rely on been proven factual beyond a shadow of a doubt? If there is just one error anywhere to be found in their writings, why wouldn't this be an automatic 'disproving' of everything else they stated? This is cherry-picking to the nth degree. Has a trusted relative or friend ever told you something they genuinely believed true that you later learned to be false? How, then, can you trust anything they say ever again? And why is Hegesippus never addressed by preterists? He recorded John's banishment under Domitian and not Nero. And he wrote this decades before Irenaeus ever did.
Even if the Apocalypse was seen in 69 (following the reign of Nero) - which is the point of the different reading of Irenaeus and which I will not completely dismiss as a possibility - it doesn't necessarily proof Preterism correct.
@@contramundum2.0paradigmshi10 The internal evidence however is only tangible (the book never clearly gives a date) and would not contradict a late date. Hence, the external evidence trumps the internal evidence.
@@contramundum2.0paradigmshi10 How is my reasoning flawed. There are some verses that would fit better if the Apocalypse was seen under Galba but do not conflict with a date under Domitian. Then there is the external evidence that says it was seen under Domitian. BTW, I am not really 100% convinced that the late date is right. I am just commenting on the evidence. External evidence might still be wrong.
Good news bad news. The bad news is, the devil is powerful and is still at work in his children, the GOOD NEWS is, God is ALL-POWERFUL and His Spirit is still at work in HIS children.
David Ford Okay, let me try to educate you. THE BIBLE says that; 1) You have to be ADOPTED into the family of God Romans 8:15 2) This is done by RECEIVING Christ and His spirit John 1:12 3) We can know who God's children are and who the devil's children are. 1 John 3:10 4) Jesus Himself called people who rejected Him and the Truth, children of the devil. John 8:44 So if YOU reject this free education that I'm trying to give you from the word of God, then satan is also YOUR daddy. So... WHO'S YOUR DADDY?
Dr brown, says the writers of the New Testament tell us .... No, they were telling the people they were writing to. He says that every Christian has always expected Christ to return in their life time. He and anyone that believes that , only gets that from reading letters written to other people, those leaving prior ad70. It is clear then, that he believes that is what the scriptures taught, Christ to appear in the lives of the reader. Problem is, is was not address to him. I know of one book in the bible that was told to be read in another church, but that church was not Dr Browns. Regardless of what ones view is of how things were to pan out, it is clear that it was to happen in the readers lifetime. If Jesus’s warning was “ don’t be deceived” and he told them when they see specific things that will signs of his coming, but in fact he didn’t come, that would make Jesus a deceiving teacher. On the contrary, Jesus told them what they would see, they were given the spirit that would lead them into all truth, reveal things that were to happen, but peopl today disregard that and say , it was written for us today. People we have over 40000 denominations who say they have the truth. Back then there was only one group who showed and proved the message they preached was true and Jesus told them, not to be deceived, not us
Yes, the prophet Jesus returned by the end of A.D. 70. Jesus the son of Mary prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and prophesied that he'd return shortly, and he did so. Some that Saw Jesus Die Witnessed Jesus' Return in Power and Glory tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/jesus-returned-in-power-and-glory/
What do you make of the "chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour... seen running about among the clouds"? Josephus, Book VI, Chapter 5, Section 3 (Entire) www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_theological.html#Book_VI,_Chapter_V,_Section_2 The Signs That Preceded The Destruction .... Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year (4). Thus also, before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eight day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day-time; which light lasted for half an hour (5). This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskilful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. Tisha Be'AV - Churban HaBayit At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner, [court of the temple,] which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night (6). Now, those that kept watch in the temple came thereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared, that this signal forshewed the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities (7). Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking (8), and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." (9) “A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset chariots were seen in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities.” (Chilton, Jerusalem Under Siege) ....
I feel sorry for this guy, he has been duped by the master deceiver and needs our prayers desperately. He says he doesn't believe we have to resist the devil anymore, but I have no doubt that it was the enemy who caused him to doubt the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the first place, and then conveniently provided him with the answers to his doubts in a way that appeased his earthly logic. May God illuminate the eyes of his understanding in such a way that every error would be clearly exposed by the light of Truth! Amen!
amen
My thoughts also......amen!
I was just thinking he was filled with something but it wasn’t the Holy Spirit. I’m gonna have to repent. He must not have had any terrible things happen to him in life. I witnessed the devil in my first husband’s eyes. I think he needs to see the devil face to face. Then he won’t be filled with hot air. If this world is so close to being hell, why would we not resist the frickin douche who makes it that way?!?
As usual. Put down without a single Scripture
Charismania witchcraft. Your powers of giberish are not tongues, and your prophecies are false. You are students of the necromancer Dr. James Peebles and don't even know it.
The same way you see him go up, is the same way you will see him come down...
Jesus went up into a spiritual throne/heaven. Jesus returned to a spiritual throne/heaven! (comes not by observation) We are the tabernacle that God dwells in. Be 1 with me as I am one with the Father.... Work has been finished!!! Jesus told the thief on the cross TODAY you will be with me in PARADISE! Paradise in not the physical earth! No one comes to the Father except thru me. How are you going to the Father if you're waiting for Jesus to come?
Jesus left in the clouds. In the old testament, Yahweh came 'in the clouds' in judgement of nations. Babylon, Egypt, and Assyria. Thats exactly what he prophecied to the high priest and God Judged Jerusalem in 70 AD. That's why the high priest rent his clothes and accused Jesus of blasphemy. Jesus was saying he was 'coming in the clouds' - God judging them. They knew what he was saying.
“But if there is no resurrection of the dead,then Christ is not risen.And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty”-1 Co 15:13-14.”But now Christ is risen from the dead”-V20.”Because I live,you will live also”-John 14:19📖✝️
I have a friend that goes to my church that has experienced a miraculous healing. Was electrocuted and horribly burned on half of his face from 440volts. The arc was so bright that he was told he would not regain his sight in one eye, and would have trouble with the other for the rest of his life. So many members of the church he attended at the time came in one after the other and prayed for hours in the hospital with him. THe next day his burns on his face were completely healed, his eyes had changed color and they were completely healed. The doctors that saw this said it was impossible. Tell me again that God doesn’t heal?
But people will just write off "experience" and that makes me very upset.
No one took before and after pics?
Really, there should be some kind of medical records that would attest to validity of your claims here then? When did this happen? What was his name? What was the name of the Church and the Hospital? What was the Pastors name and are there any people that would corroborate this story? I mean, after all, this is a verifiable miracle, right?
Anecdotes aren't evidence, and you won't convince people using them. You'd need verifiable data. Perhaps this case can fit into a medical journal, but proof of miraculous healing is not this
So many of these stories go uncorroborated or happen without video evidence . So many 2nd hand stories are fake -- that doesn't mean that God can't heal someone , but I'm automatically skeptical of these .
You know referring to the temple I'm surprised so many people talk about building a third Temple when they're reading letters which are solely center around the construction of the final Temple which was incidentally complete in 70 AD,
Personally I think it's a result of listening to other people repeat their ideology while never really receiving any Revelation on the subject for themselves
Did Dr. Brown provide any rebuttal to Sullivan’s actual arguments? Because I’ve gone through this a couple time and, from my observations, his responses consist in begging the question - ie continually CLAIMING these things are future while not touching on any of the very clear and simple syllogisms Sullivan used to establish FP.
Correct. A major problem. His main argument seemed to be ‘look around Jesus hasn’t come back’. Rather weak I thought.
@thecanberean uhm ..its not weak...nothing on earth in anyway resembles what the Bible says it will be like when he comes..
@@thecanberean human trafficking, organ trafficking, millions of abortions, horrible wars, child soldiers, euthanasia (assisted suicide)… VS. “death shall be no more”. How is that a weak argument?! Love in Christ.
@thecanberean thats the only argument he needs. It's very clear we are not living in time spoken about scripture.
@@BelgianBrideYeah it was way worse back then also what are the wages of sin? what does Paul say
Romans 4:15 For the law brings wrath but where there is no law there is no transgression
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of god is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord
1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks to be God who gives us victory through our lord Jesus Christ
So this is talkin bout the power of death which is sin this isn’t sayin sin isn’t anymore but the power it has is no more so there is no more death bc death is sin so we can still sin but we won’t die in our sins like they did that’s what Sheol was it was a place for the righteous and unrighteous that’s what resurrection of the dead was it was Jesus raisin those ppl up who followed Jesus and the second part was when the temple got destroyed we were resurrected from the dead bc Jesus says
Matthew 5:17-19 Do not think I have come to abolish the law of the prophets but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you until heaven and earth pass away not an iota not a dot will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called the least in kingdom of heaven but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in kingdom of heaven.
So this doesn’t make sense if heaven and earth isn’t reference to the temple so death is no more for us and sin lost its power not that’s it’s gone tho
Sullivan was so wrong about the gifts ceasing, but correct on fulfilled eschatology and this bizarro Zionism going on.
Likewise, Brown was and has been in point about the charismatic and the gifts. However, he did very poorly here with a wooden futurist argument.
Brown said Matthew 24 was fulfilled? So now he is a partial preterist? Uhhhhh, but what else is there then?
Dr. Brown, thank you and God bless you always. Sincerely, MA
This preterism is depressing. Thank God for Michael Brown!
@Samuel Lev Because with full preterism, the way it is on the earth today is as good as it gets. No future New Earth for the redeemed to live on with the Lord as physical, immortal humans. It's all already happened??? That's why it's heretical
I agree with Mike Sullivan regarding 70AD. But not cessationism. The Spirit is here and moving in power.
Do you believe this happened in the first century? Matthew 24:30-31: “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then ALL the peoples of the earth (NOT just Jerusalem) will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, (NOT just Jerusalem) from one end of the heavens to the other." IF this happened in the first century and ALL the peoples of the earth saw the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, I think it would be the most spectacular event in all of history and historical records around the entire world would be rife with reports of dumbfounded people in total shock at the most amazing sight ever! Notice it says ALL the people of the earth and not just those around Jerusalem. Or are you saying All the peoples of the earth is a metaphor for people around Jerusalem. Also, Peter says, "The Day of the Lord comes as a thief, the heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will melt in fervent heat, and the earth and all its works will be laid bare. Sorry, this did NOT happen in the first century Jerusalem. How do you make some things metaphors and others literal, like passages in Revelation that say certain events will happen soon, or quickly? Also, the word translated soon in Revelation (these things will soon happen) is according to Strong’s the Greek word “tachei” and it means: quickness, speed; hastily, immediately. So, it can be a reference to a particular event happening at a quick pace once it starts.
Sullivan clearly can’t answer questions! Nor can give scripture stating where we are here in this present world 🌎! Nor has anyone sit in the temple claiming to be God! And what about the Mt. of olives being split in two!
Mr. Brown would do well not to read scripture with a 21st century mindset. A proper understanding of the 1st century Jewish culture, language and the history surrounding the Bible is key to a proper understanding of scripture.
Which you lack
I’m a partial Preterist and believe that Michael is 90% correct but Dr. Brown has some good arguments. Jesus DID return in AD 70, but in judgement and will still come again at the second advent (Acts 1) after the Kingdom which came in AD 70 has come to a complete fulfillment in converting all nations to the Gospel.
Partial preterism is like dispensationalism. I am a kind of a full preterism but embrace the gifts of the Spirit. This is the error of preterism that mixes the gifts with eschatology. Also Revelation clearly points to the uncean spirits hiding in the ruins of the Whore. The deathblow to Satan is somehow unrelated to The Devil. Demons are still out there at large as long as there is darkness and light, which means eternally. There seems to be a diff between angels of Satan and demons, but am still exploring this issue in the Word.
The 70 weeks took place in 1st century. This means resurrection TOOK PLACE then. But just as salvation it is an even that has been ACTUALIZED in the NEW generations of the NEW creation, and there is no end to it as long as the earth stands.
Utter nonsense
@@Spark_Iskra_z_Polskiagree. The gifts continue as long as the Gospel is preached and for the edifying of God’s people.
Preterism is so clear and makes the Bible true and make sense. So why is dying and going to heaven now to be with the father cheapened? Futuristic views cheapened the work of Christ and put us in a position of denying the work of Christ. I won’t ever do that again. I BELIEVE the words of Christ! Matthew 16:27-28
Who was Paul speaking to in his letters when he spoke of the resurrection and desiring the gifts?
The Corinthians lol
"If Jesus has returned, then I can't have people cheer for me and pay me anymore."
Sola Scriptura is so messed up! Sullivan doesn't even want to reflect on the historical pattern of Church History on this subject as Dr. Brown has invited him to do at some point of the exchange!? Anyway ... I'm still shaking head! Dr. Brown did good!
Eric Gatera Dr Brown did good? That’s a first. I guess the broken clock can be correct once.
On a serious note, both these guys are wrong.
Joseph Mauricio Flores what’s your take on eschatology? I’m studying this right now myself
Curious. Do you advocate sola scriptura or church history?
@@billhesford6098 Sola Scriptura is so messed up and unbiblical, how could I ever advocate for it?
@@ericgatera7149 You haven't actually said anything.
Preterism? That everything has already happened? No, first the rapture and then Israel's tribulation.
2 Thess 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. First the apostasy (meaning correctly departure) must come and the man of lawlessness come forth, the son of perdition, 4 the adversary who exalts himself above all that is called god or holy so that he sits in the temple of God and says he is God. 5 Do you not remember that I told you this while I was still with you? 6 And you know what it is that now holds him back so that he can come forward only when his time comes. 7 The secret of lawlessness is already at work. Now only the one holding back must be cleared out of the way.
8 Then the lawless one will come forward, he whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the spirit of his mouth and destroy with the glory of his coming.
In Matthew 24, Jesus talks about the abomination of desolation Daniel talks about, words that speak strongly that something will be in the temple that should not be there - antichrist. Sure, a lot has happened since the time of the disciples, but no one has yet stood in the temple and claimed to be God? The lawless one (antichrist) cannot be revealed until that which holds back is "cleared" out of the way...what is it if not the church with holy spirit. Therefore Paul says that the man of lawlessness cannot be revealed before "the departure" it is a definitive word. Obviously, the rapture has not happened yet.
Apostasy is a Greek word and means a departure from something and we know that Paulie has in the first letter to the Thessalonians talked about the rapture, so in this case its about the departure.
1 Thess 4:16 When a command sounds, an archangel's voice and a trumpet of God, then the Lord himself will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that we who are alive and remain will be caught up (departured) among clouds together with them to meet the Lord in space. And so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Haven't happened yet, so there you go.
Is Matthew 10:23 about 70 AD, or is it about Jesus coming as the King to Israel? The answer is found below in Zech. 9:9. Did Jesus "cometh" as the King of Israel riding on a donkey during the week He was crucified? If Matthew 10:23 is about 70 AD, Peter ignored the commandment given by Jesus in Matthew 10:5-7, when Peter went to the house of Cornelius. It did not take the disciples forty years to take the Gospel to Israel. In Romans 1:16 Paul said the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews. This time period of the Gospel going "first" to Israel is found in Matt. 10:5-23, and Acts chapter 2, and Acts 10:36-38, and Galatians 1:14-18.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
The Old Covenant age died at Calvary when God ripped the temple veil in half from the top to the bottom at the moment His Son died at Calvary. There is no record in the NT of any person coming to salvation outside of the New Covenant between Calvary and 70 AD. Hebrews 7:12 proves there was a change in the law before 70 AD. We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant Church of Mount Zion and the blood of Jesus in Hebrews 12:22-24. This passage was written in the present tense before 70 AD.
If the Hyper-Preterists were correct the Old Covenant age would come back into existence if a temple were rebuilt, and animal sacrifices are renewed.
Any basic book on Astronomy proves we are not now living in the "eternal" New Heavens and New Earth, because the sun only has a limited amount of nuclear fuel. We now understand the nuclear reaction inside the core of the sun, because of the testing of thermonuclear weapons.
.
Never saw a debator so utterly cornered as Sullivan was beginning with Brown's question at 1:26:52
So, you didn't listen to the answer... Just like the "dr". Failure to keep scripture in context. A very stupid question.
@@Tokyo1985 Your rebuttal is almost as epic as Sullivan's
@@Redeemed52597 Ty, Sullivan did answer the stupid question very well.
@@Tokyo1985 May God bless you with revelations of his love, power, and truth in Jesus Christ!
@@Redeemed52597 Thanks, may you be blessed through Yahushua's fulfilled revelation and completed works!
In my first years as a born-again Christian, I would remember reading Matthew chapters 24 and 25 without really understanding what I was reading. I would hear "eschatological scholars" preach on these chapters, and even though I accepted what they were saying, many questions remained unanswered, and, at times, I felt as if certain passages from these two chapters contradicted what these men taught. However, I at the time had no alternative explanation to offer, so I silently accepted the traditional interpretation of these chapters.
In the Sunday afternoon of November 7, 2004, I sat down to study the Word, and I asked the Lord, "What do you want me to study?". A song then began to play in my mind. It was a song called "Right here, right now", a song by Jesus Jones that hit the secular charts in 1991(we included the lyrics of this song in a previous prophetic word). The phrase "watching the world wake up from history", that is part of this song, made a strong impression on my heart, because it reminded me of this verse in Ephesians chapter 5:
"Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light" (Ephesians 5:14)
It was then that Lord said to me, "I want you to study about the rapture and My second coming". I then began to study a passage related to the rapture, but, to be honest with you, I ended that study more confused than when I started. I wanted to share with other members of our Bible study group about what the Lord had told me to study, but I did not feel God's authorization to do so.
I was amazed at how God independently began to speak to each of the other members of the group about the importance of studying on his "second coming", and as they shared this with me, I understood that God wanted us to write articles on it. Since there were many things that we did not understand, I initially thought that those articles would be written a few months from now. This past Monday, however, the Lord said to me, in no uncertain terms, "I want you to write about My Second Coming next week". I said, "OK, Lord, I have very little to say on this, but I know that You will provide".
As the week went by, I found that I had learned very little, and as my natural mind began to consider writing about something else, one of the members of the group spoke to me yesterday about a dream he had had on Wednesday. It was a very vivid dream about the Second Coming of the Lord. He could not recall the details of the dream; he felt as if God had erased the details from his memory, and all he could remember was that the dream was about His Second Coming. I was amazed to hear this, since God had very explicitly warned me against telling this brother about the subject I had to write on this week. The dream served as a strong confirmation, and I felt as if God was telling me, "Son, you are going to write about My Second Coming this week, whether you like it or not"."
(This is portion of an article at Shamah-Elim.Info Bible Studies.)
Was the Flood physical? So shall the Fire be. 2 Peter 3:10..
Maybe you should have asked M. Sullivan why he didn't think that the verses about the resurrection referred to being able to buy rocky road ice cream. That seems to be a closer fit than the destruction of the Jerusalem with all the suffering that occurred. Why would the words on the page have no conceptual relationship with what the passage means? It reminds me of how Mormons explain how the Book of Abraham has nothing to do with the text of the Book of the Dead which Smith 'translated' it from, supposedly supernaturally, without knowing the language.
Since both forms of preterism (full/consistent and partial/inconsistent) require a dating of Revelation 30 years earlier than what the vast majority of historians and scholars have agreed upon since the 2nd century, this is very shaky ground upon which to base an entire eschatology.
John was on Patmos, exiled by Emperor Domitian(who was known for exiling, whereas Nero some 30 years prior did not exile believers). For Revelation to be about 70 A.D., it would have needed to have been written during Nero's reign.
The earliest Christian historian who recorded the church's knowledge of the Domitianic dating of Revelation was Hegessippus in 150 A.D. (around the time when most of those who would have known John had likely already died), and this continued to be the unanimous view until about 4 centuries later with the Syriac Peshitta NT manuscript in which someone wrote that John was exiled under Nero. It is sometimes claimed that the Neronic dating is in the original, but this is impossible since the original lacked the book of Revelation. From what I've been able to gather, there is no source or reasoning given for this change in that 6th century manuscript. This is problematic at best, and lacks the authoritativeness that would be required to credibly make such a huge revision to what was commonly accepted and passed down from the end of the first century/beginning of the 2nd.
The same can be said for the Muratorian Fragment, which is the 7th century copy of the 2nd century original, with no way to prove the Neronic dating was in the original. There is no record of any of the early church fathers holding to the Neronic date of Revelation. A fascinating glimpse into the early church fathers and what they believed on a variety of topics is in 'A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs', over 700 pages compiled by David Bercot.
In addition to Hegessippus (who wrote this some 30 years prior to Irenaeus), Tertullian , Eusebius, Jerome, Sulpicius Severus, and a number of other church fathers both before and not long after the council at Nicaea all confirm that John was exiled to Patmos by Domitian where he received Revelation. The lack of any dissenting view naming Nero in place of Domitian until the 6th century should give early-date advocates pause. So at least most of the events of Revelation are still in our future (some view the messages to the churches as having already been strictly for them and completely fulfilled, while some view each church as symbolic for a different time period, and of course there could be room for double-fulfillment of most of those first 3 chapters).
There was a celebration on Patmos in 1995 commemorating 1900 years (approximately, as in 95 or 96 A.D.) since the Revelation Jesus gave to John. The overall predominant view since the first century is that John was exiled under Domitian and survived into the time of Trajan. It wasn't until centuries after the original apostles had died that the pre-70 A.D. view came into being. And what other events in the 1st century A.D. are ever claimed as taking place 2 or 3 decades earlier (or later, for that matter)? With all of the accurate records kept during the Roman Empire era and surviving today, there is little room for such a vast difference being feasible.
It's commonly believed that Jesus died around 30 or 33 A.D., Paul and Peter were martyred in the 60's, Nero lived from 37-68 A.D., etc. No one says Jesus died in 3 A.D. or 60 A.D., or that Peter and Paul were martyred in the 30's A.D. or 90's A.D., or that Nero actually reigned around the time of Jesus' ministry as recorded in the Gospels. The majority of scholarship places John's writing of Revelation in the mid-90's, but somehow preterists think it's ok to switch this around by 3 decades?
The great fire of Rome took place for nearly a week during 64 A.D., but no one places it in 54 A.D. let alone 34 A.D. A powerful earthquake in 60 A.D. devastated Laodicea. And yet no one ever says that earthquake took place in 30 A.D. 30 years prior. With the vast majority of evidence to the contrary, preterism literally rests on this single pillar of the dating of the book of Revelation. And, really, that is no pillar at all given the historicity of the late date.
Do you think Rev 11:1-2 was written before, or after, the temple's destruction?
Revelation 11 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/revelation/11.htm
1 And a reed was given to me like a rod and the Angel was standing and said, "Rise and measure the Temple of God and the altar and those who worship in it," 2 "And the inner court of the Temple leave out and do not measure it, because that is given to the Gentiles, and they will trample The Holy City forty two months. 3 "And I shall grant my two witnesses to prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days while wearing sackcloth."
What are your thoughts on Rev 17:10?
Revelation 17:10 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/revelation/17.htm
"And there are seven Kings; five have fallen and one is, and there is another not yet come, and when he comes, a little remaining time is given to him."
What's your opinion of Kenneth Gentry's 3 internal-evidence arguments for Revelation being written before A.D. 70 during the reign of Nero?
Compelling Internal Evidence For The Early Date View Of The Book Of Revelation
th-cam.com/video/ZngW7fp_wvk/w-d-xo.html
1) Rev 11:1-2
Lk 21:24
Rev 1:1
2) Rev 3:9
Gal 6:16
Philippians 3:3
Rom 2:28-29, 3:1-2
'they say they're Jews but they're not true Jews-- we followers of Yeshua the promised Meshikha _are_ the true Jews'
Judaism and Christianity were commingled prior to Jerusalem's destruction.
After Jerusalem's and the temple's destruction in A.D. 70, Judaism and Christianity became separated. In A.D. 80, a formal curse against followers of the Nazarene Jesus started being used.
3) 7 kings/emperorers/caesars-- 5 fallen: Julius Caesar. Augustus. Tiberius. Gaius. Claudius.
1 now is: Nero [died A.D. 68, reigned 13 1/2 years]
1 to come and reign a short period: Galba [reigned 6 months]
Jewish historian Josephus said Julius Caesar was the 1st caesar.
Suetonius's _Lives of the 12 Caesars_ starts with Julius Caesar.
Tacitus is the odd man out, by starting with Augustus.
Re: the possible rejoinder that Nero’s persecution was not worldwide, do you think this Caesar Augustus-required registering was worldwide?:
Luke 2 (NKJV), www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+2&version=NKJV
1 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. 2 This census first took place while Quirinius was governing Syria. 3 So all went to be registered, everyone to his own city.
@@davidford15 if you read my comment you'd see that Revelation was written after the temple's destruction.
It's baffling to me why preterists think the phrase 'temple of God' in Revelation 11 was referring to the 2nd temple. The 2nd temple had ceased to be the temple of God after the the death and resurrection of Christ. Nothing could be forgiven outside of Christ's sacrifice once He did that for us. Therefore the 2nd temple could not in any way, shape, or form be referred to as the temple of God around Nero's time when preterism claims Revelation was written. It was just a shell with no glory, no holiness, no more forgiveness. In fact, the sacrifices that took place there for approximately 40 years up until 70 A.D. were an affront to the cross! But God was merciful and gave them that time to repent.
Christians are the 3rd temple, technically speaking. There is no longer a need for a physical temple. For all we know, this reference to the temple of God might not even be literal just like a number of other places where the Bible is definitely not or might not be literal. I don't know how the end times are going to play out exactly, but that is ok because I know the One who does and entrust myself to His care and teaching. While a 3rd temple might be built in Israel someday with sacrifices instituted again, I'm currently unsure where it would fit in terms of Biblical prophecy.
@@davidford15 all easily refuted in light of the lack of any mention of Nero being the one who exiled John, instead of Domitian, until over 4 centuries after John had died. This was all explained in my original comment which I doubt you read.
Within the Roman Empire records were kept very accurately. It's absurd to think that all of those early church fathers starting from the 2nd century onward got it wrong for over 400 years. Beyond absurd.
@@JohnnyDoe1012 Jesus told John to measure a flattened & judged temple 20 years gone? My God knows the future.
Dr. Brown would you debate, Dr. Don k Preston please🙏?
He already did.
watch?v=H1fP1xB1gsM
He already did. Preston beat him both times
@@Ttcopp12rt how can you even say that? Jesus clearly told his disciples that he would come back in their lifetime, told them all things would be fulfilled before that generation passed (matt 24:34), said in luke 21:20-22 that the time that the armies that make jerusalem desolate would be when all things fulfilled written in torah. Dr brown never really brings those arguments up let alone even addresses them. Jesus told his disciples that when they see these things they would KNOW it was near and you cant make the "well they thought it was near but were mistaken" argument because in luke 21:8 jesus said those coming in his name saying the time is near when it wasnt are false teachers and to not follow them. So jesus himself taught them when it would be near and when it would not be near. So i ask you, was peter one of the false teachers that jesus warned about in luke 21:8 who said in 1 peter 4:7 "the END OF ALL THINGS is at hand" when it clearly wasnt according to futurists? Well what about john who KNEW it was the last hour in 1 john 2:18? Or what about james who said the coming of christ was so near it was at the doors echoing jesus statement to them in matt 24 when he said "when you see these things know it is near even AT THE DOOR". Did he mistakenly believe the end to happen at the destruction of jerusalem because the letter was written just prior to that. If jesus taught them the temples destruction WAS NOT THE END then how come all the apostles said just prior to ad 70 that the coming/judgement/end of all things was near if that is NOT WHAT JESUS TOLD THEM? Do you understand what im getting at here? If jesus taught two distinct events here that were totally un related to each other and if jesus told them that the time when the temple and city are destroyed IS NOT THE END or IS NOT HIS COMING but jesus told his disciples that there was coming a destruction of this city and temple but you wont see my coming yet until city and temple is restored far in the future or " until the times of the gentiles is fulfilled" which is more than likely way past their time, then why did james tell the twelve tribes in james 5:7-9 that the coming of jesus was near at the doors BEFORE THE TEMPLE WAS DESTROYED IN 70 AD if james was taught christ was not coming then??????
Dr brown shouldnt be a guy to listen to on these subjects anyways because he doesnt seem to address the fact that his friend schumley boteach is a kabbalah rabbi which is the foundation belief system of occult mysticism and i havent heard him rebuke or say much of anything about that but he dont have much issue calling preterist and replacement theology churches heretical but doesnt say anything about kabbalah and the occult his rabbi friends practice which is very telling. It shows he's compromised the truth so he can become just another one sided zionist mouthpiece for israel. Thats what it seems like to me anyways but i could be wrong
Twice Preston debated him and it shook Michael Brown to his core-especially the last one. Michael won't do that again. Bad press for him. Twice knocked out. Don's the champ!
@@alanbradwell5835 Full-Preterist are HERETICS. Apostle Paul already dealt with this ERROR in his time. My first question is do you full-preterists believe the resurrection of the saints happened already and Christ second advent came and went? If yes, then 2 Timothy 2:17,18 applies to YOU.
2 Timothy 2:17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort. 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
Hymenaeus and PHiletus were the Preterits of Old. Now these preterits reemerges such as: Don Preston, Mr. Sullivan, Mr William Bell and others promulgate that the RESURRECTION HAS PAST ALREADY with their selected text phrases: as soon, at hand, shortly, quickly, little while, will not tarry, at the door etc.
Paul instructing Timothy that their messages/teaching are LIKE A GANGRENE. These false teachers, the Preterits, attach a spiritual meaning, metaphors and allegorizing the doctrine of the resurrection of the body, instead of a literal meaning.
Regarding Matthew 24:34, Luke 21:20-22, James 5:7-9, 1 Peter 4:7 and 1 John 2:18, if these passages came to pass, according to preterits, Where is the Savior, Jesus Christ?These texts are cherry picked out of their context and the overall context of the N.T. If the book of revelation was fulfilled, Jesus Christ killed the BEAST/antichrist and his Kingdom shall be on earth.
Lets look at Matthew 24, if "this generation" does mean the apostles then look at verses 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
So after the tribulation, Christ second advent has come: sends his angels to gather his elect to be with the Lord (Matthew 13:38-*41*;1 Thessalonians **4:15**-17), resurrect our dead bodies ( Philippians **3:10**-12*,20, 21*; 2 Timothy 4:8; Revelation20:5; 1 Corinthians **15:19**,20,23, ***42,43,44, 51-53***56,57), marriage of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7-9), the BEAST kills the two witnesses Their dead bodies lie in the street (Revelation 11:3,*8-10*), Christ DESTROYS the BEAST/WICKED ONE and or Antichrist with those who know NOT GOD and OBEY NOT the GOSPEL of Jesus Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:*7,8,9,10*;2 Thessalonians 2:4-*8* ;Revelation 19:11-*20,21*), 2 Peter 3: 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat HAS NOT CAME TO PASS YET. THAT'S CLEAR and the Scriptures are EXPLICIT.
Yes, things were fulfilled as to God's vengeance of his people, however, QUOTE ALL OF Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
As stated above, in Christ coming these events shall take place, Jesus Christ did NOT come for his promise lift up your heads; for your redemption drawers nigh. Where is my Redemption, if Christ came already?
1 John 2;18 "it is the last time" I agree it is the last time. Does this "it is the last time" mean that Christ 2nd return came already? No. Look at what the same author says 1 John 2: 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
Notice, John said "When he SHALL APPEAR" Christ did not appear at that moment, most importantly, if Jesus came around 70 ad or 90 ad, John the Apostle REFUTES this in 1 John 3:Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.
Apostle said "We know that WHEN Christ appears, WE WILL BE LIKE HIM" How was Christ after his resurrection. He had a spiritual body(1 corinthians15:46): walking thru doors while being shut (john20:19; Luke 24:36), and able to eat with this body (Luke 24:*40-43*). Do we living today have this spiritual body?
Praise God for the unchanging truth,Mal3:6,the Lord does not change!Isreal became a nation again,a prophecy 2000 years old,Isaiah 66:8-10,Acts 2:17 In the last days God shall pour out His Spirit on all flesh, and they shall PROPHESY.Even If a child of God prophesied over him and he seen it come to pass he would deny it because he’s in the flesh and the natural man cannot have the things of the Spirit Of God because they are foolishness to him,1Cor2:14.Thank God HE REMAINS THE SAME!JESUS is LORD!Hallelujah!
So, as a preterist, you don't believe Jesus when He said, "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then ALL the PEOPLES of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF THE HEAVENS TO THE OTHER."
So you believe Jesus was just exaggerating when He said, "ALL the PEOPLES of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man...and He was not being quite truthful when He said, "he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF THE HEAVENS TO THE OTHER."
Jesus REALLY meant ONLY people in and near Jerusalem will see the "Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven"
and when He said, "his angels...will gather his elect from the FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF THE HEAVENS TO THE OTHER...He really meant Jerusalem. He was just saying, "from the FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF THE HEAVENS TO THE OTHER, for effect.
I have read the "historical" accounts of Josephus and Tacitus, they were DEFINITELY NOT on a par with the Biblical account.
You are basing what you believe on "this generation will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled" and then totally ignore " “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So, you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near-at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation (that sees these things start to unfold) will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."
Having been to a few churches over the last 40 years including charismatic ones especially when I was young, I heard about the miracles. In Nigeria. In Brazil. Over the sea somewhere. Whenever I am there, nothing. God could fix a headache. Someone's diarrhea. Make their leg grow. But God couldn't with all that same creative power, heal those many cripples and the blind. Never my broken back or ruined knee. I just wanted the truth, not games. Perhaps I should go to Haiti or Nigeria.
Bruh
Sullivan’s opening argument is crammed together and all over the place. Theological jenga from the get go
Dr. Brown, if EVERYTHING is LITERAL as YOU define it, then how come John the Baptist came and not ELIJAH? How come the Savior was named Yeshua/Yahshua and not Immanuel?! I could go on and on.....
You need help..badly
thanx. very informative
at 1:30-131 dr brown gets no answer to his question because he's asking a hypothetical question.. which is really not fitting to ask a hypothetical in a debate (or even ever for that matter)
Let me also add the biblical text, states only the generation of the Christ receive the Holy Ghost, this is factual textual evidence..
When we look at the prophecy all of it talks about at the coming of the Christ they're closed their bloodline Covenant they would only be a scattered remnant of Israel now in Joel 232 it is the prophecy which is fulfilled in act two Twenty-One, the problem is the translators of the book of act seem to have left out the very most important part of the prophecy which is, only the remnant would receive the promise.
You find this reiterated Again by Paul as he refers to Isaiah's prophecy concerning the coming of the Christ and Israel being as many of the sand of the sea but only the remnant receiving the promise.
Paul repeats it yet again in Romans 11:7 all of the House of Israel was cut off and only the remnant received the promise..
Luke 21 22 says the Christ days are the days of Vengeance when all the prophecies written would be fulfilled..
Mister Michael Brown is in very bad shape
*How can either of these men be so ignorant to not realize that the thousand years (long period) BEGAN, BEGAN, BEGAN ca. 70AD (SOON), but did not end ca. 70 (NOT SOON)!?!?!*
So when they say to God one day is as a thousand years, what does that mean? I thought Satan is bound during 1000 years, how is that possible with the deception in the nations.
@@trumenfreight6055 right, I have an article that explains what the abyss, the chain and the actual length of the thousand years is!
@@trumenfreight6055 so the argument that the thousand years has to come quickly, but NOT end quickly does not agree with you?
If not, why?
@@trumenfreight6055 that's not true and "to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;" does NOT mean everything has to come to pass shortly. That's a misreading of it.
In fact, the thousand years is not even a last days event, it's a new age.
@@trumenfreight6055 ok you agree not EVERYTHING has to end shortly. Again though, the thousand years does come shortly, but .......
to come does not = to be over
Also, if language is to be honored "thousand" has to be used to represent an immense nuimber.
Milton Terry a professor of hermeneutics and a preterist thought it would take a MILLION YEARS.
Full Preterism works like this: they gather all prophetical data and put them together into a tight, coherent system. We should grant them that much. Their system is coherent, though not the only possible system.
However, then they are confronted with the fact that the assembled prophecies were actually not fulfilled in the given time frame. Jesus did not return in 70 AD. Rather than rethink their system and consider alternatives (alternatives that maybe are not that tight in all details but still leave room for Jesus to fulfill his prophecies) they reinterpret what was actually prophesied just to retain the system.
They do this in general and they do it to the Olivet Discourse and argue: "If Jesus said he would, he did." Of course, that way they will not convince anyone who's not already a Full Preterist. Even worse, they will convince many non-believers that a) Jesus's 2nd coming had to be within the generation and b) since that didn't happen, Jesus was a false prophet and c) finally, present the non-believer with a cheap promise: that the New Heaven and the New Earth are already there. If that is so,, if that is all, why bother with Christianity at all.
Because we are in the endless kingdom of the gospel. It's still spreading. That's why terrorism is sprouting up.
@@Ben-qb4lj What do you mean by that?
@@str.77 you asked "why bother with Christ at all?" Because the new covenant scripturally says there will still be evangelism, sin, births. Outside the spiritual temple (those outside or untold of the gospel will need evangelism). It's going to keep spreading!
@@Ben-qb4lj I actually said "why bother with Christianity at all". That being said, the point was not there isn't any evangelism, births or sin in the world, even after the new covenant has come (which BTW happened with Christ's crucifixion and resurrection) but that if that state is already the best we can expect, the whole promise is cheap and pointless. A world full of sin and death and misery is not a promise I'd call "good news". And evangelizing for this is also pointless, notvworth spreading. It would be like selling empty boxes. None of the martyrs would have died for that.
However, the real gospel is indeed good news. With Christ's 2nd coming sin will end and death will be defeated. The last chapter of the Apocalypse clearly spells that out.
You're in for a good day! Jesus absolutely came in 70ad. It fits every single prophecy & warning from Christ's own lips!
Timothy is still alive today keeping those commandments without spot and unrebukable UNTIL THE APPEARING OF OUR LORD JESUS,,,,Timothy is 2,000 years old hahahaha,hilarious,,why don't people believe what the Bible says instead of making Jesus out to be a liar ,,he said soon ,,,quickly, ,,,shortly and he meant it
Questions make or break an entire policy
Dont you guys realize how crazy it is to be waiting for a physical temple in the future? Have you thought of the implications of that? Wake up.
Yes. That is absurd and blasphemous !!! God will not build a third earthly temple. Heb 9
Preterist have many things right. I think many go off when they start taking about spiritual gifts being done away with. I believe Mr Brown due to his Jewish background is bias in wanted to see a “physical” temple. But I would put up money no more temple is going to be buildt because that’s not what scripture says
What do they have right?
I must add that John penned the revelation of Jesus Christ approx. 20 years after the a.d. 70 destruction of Jerusalem and what does it say in Chapter 1 verse 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; and in chapter 4 verse 1 he writes: After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. We were warned that false christs, prophets and teachers would come in the last days and 2 timothy chapter 4 also warns of false teachers and we are seeing a great living example of the fulfillment of those warnings. Stay in the Word more and less online with teachers and their videos. Believe the Words of God more than the charts drawn up by fallible men.
Enjoyed reading your comments. I don’t recall Dr. Brown even addressing Matt. 10:23 in which Yeshua told his disciples that they would not have gone throughout all the cities of Israel before he returned. Brown did use a few seconds dismissing Matt. 16:27,28 before rushing off to something else. However, just saying that the transfiguration follows the passage is insufficient. Yeshua was coming in glory, with angels and was to reward every man. Some of the disciples would have died. The transfiguration followed this by only six days and all the disciples were still alive. He did not come with angels then and men were not rewarded. Ignoring or dismissing the time statements of scripture is necessary for the success of Dispensationalism.
@Born at 33 "I do believe the words of God."
What does that even mean? It is obvious that the Lord did not return in glory to judge the living and the dead in 70 AD. It is obvious that were are not living in the "New Heaven and New Earth".
And you know perfectly well the evidence for the Apocalypse being seen after 70 AD. Irenaeus, the student of a student of John, told us so. But even if it was seen before 70 AD, this would not prove Full Preterism.
No he didnt he penned it in 65 ad
@@magsgil8181 there's noch Basis for that date at all
There needs to be a debate between Brown and a competent partial preterist. The "I will raise him up on the last day" argument in unanswerable in full preterism
"The 'I will raise him up on the last day' argument in unanswerable in full preterism"
Could you please elaborate?
@@davidford15 Sure. First, I was dispensational for 20 years and now partial preterist for 6. Therefore I believe that both men are wrong here. Dr. Brown rightly brings up the passage about the apostles being raised on the last day to debunk full preterism and his opponent can't explain away an apparently corporate, one time resurrection since his doctrine denies it.
But just because Brown can debunk full preterism using the resurrection argument, that doesn't mean dispensationalism is true because partial preterists also hold to a future, corporate, bodily resurrection on the last day. What I wish to see is a competent partial preterist debate Brown. It seems he only debates full preterists like this man and Don Preston.
God's 7th day of resting from creating is still continuing. Is it possible that God resurrected and is resurrecting certain people, starting at the time of Jesus' resurrection, or maybe starting at the time of Jesus' return (which occurred before the end of A.D. 70)? "partial preterists also hold to a future, corporate, bodily resurrection on the last day" I'd think that *everyone* thinks that at-least some of Revelation has already occurred, e.g. the scene where the woman gave birth (to Jesus). Do you think the OT prophet Daniel has, or hasn't, been resurrected with a spiritual body?
@@davidford15 God didn't actually "rest". The Hebrew word there means "cease" not to be confused with "shabathown", the day of rest instituted with the giving of the manna in the wilderness. Jesus said, "my Father and I work to this day". As a partial preterist I would not say a.d. 70 was "the" return of Jesus. The parables which depict the event are described more as God "sending His armies". Caiaphas would obviously not see Jesus Himself but the "sign" of the Son of man coming in the clouds. That sign depicted that Jesus was actually in heaven, sitting at the right hand of the Father and vindicating those whom the Jews had persecuted. This "coming" should never be confused with the actual, literal, bodily appearing of Jesus in which we become "like Him because we see Him as He is".
John was told to write things in the past, present, and future....we agree. But mystery Babylon and her fall is what the Roman siege was fulfilling. The harlot throughout the scriptures was always Israel who played the harlot resulting in God giving her a certificate of divorce which depicts the end of old covenant Israel as a nation. The 3 1/2 year long siege was literally the second half of Daniel's prophesied 70th week or Shabua ending in 70 a.d.
There's no indication anywhere that I can see that would suggest Daniel was resurrected. After Jesus' resurrection, David was said to be "dead and buried and his tomb is with us to this day". So if I'm to believe the clear, non-parabolic teaching of Paul in 1 Cor 15 about "the" corporate, bodily resurrection in which all the saved receive immortal (spiritual) bodies at the last trump simultaneously, then I have no reason to think anyone has been resurrected to this very day except Christ who was the firstfruits.
@@contemplate-Matt.G But Jerusalem wasn't besieged for 3 1/2 years nor does Daniel 9 ever speak of the 70th week exactly divided into two equal halves, though the events of 70 AD indeed fulfilled some things spoken of in Daniel 9.
And let me also add I believe Mister Michael Brown even if he sees the truth will never admit it because he is more centered on a Messianic ideology of the book where he gets to try and gather his fellow Israelites which are not even on the planet anymore...
They don't seem to comprehend got only made a covenant with the pure Seed of Abraham through Sarah Genesis 1719
Are you saying that the Jews in Israel who are White and European are not physical descendents of Abraham as Dr Elhaik proved in his DNA study? ... it can't be !!!
@@johno2277 what I am saying is they are mixed breeds God never made a covenant with mixed breeds.
In numbers 36/7 through 9 they are to stay within their own house they cannot even marry between tribes, Adam ate the fruit from Satan's tree killed his own bloodline the day he ate he died, it wasn't the physical death it was the mixing of creation.
So if you're just reading my post and you're not privy to all of these other elements that come together to bring the understanding that these people are not true is real, of course you're not going to understand
@@robertmcgee1771 I agree. I was being sarcastic making fun of Dispensational Nonsense.
The tongues spoken by charismatics are giberish, not biblical tongues.
Cessationist always have to leave scripture to build a case, that alone settles it for me
Michael Sullivan seems to forget Daniel 9:26-27 about the last seven of the seventy sevens (about the Abomination of Desolation). Remember, the numbering system for the verses and chapters and etc. are arbitrary and was added much later. When Gabriel (the archangel) mentioned the end in Daniel 9:26, I believe that to be the last seven years as described in the Book of Revelation. Rabbi Johnathan Cahn is one main proponent who saw this. Sorry Sullivan, you haven't gotten all the factors; otherwise, it would destroy your basis of logic.
Luke 21:20-32 is clear - the "desolation" (of Dan. 9:26-27/ Dan. 12), coming of Christ and the kingdom would be fulfilled in Jesus' contemporary "this generation." You and Brown have to invent a 3rd. Temple being "desolated" somewhere in the Olivet Discourse which is pure eisegesis to support your Charismatic Premillennialism. "Sad" or "fascinating" as Dr. Brown would say.
@@michaelsullivan6868 I personally don't believe the Luke passage to referring to the Second Temple Destruction, but I'm curious to know why you would otherwise interpret Luke 21:11, 25-26 differently when at the very beginning of Genesis 1:14 shows that celestial bodies are used for signs. Where do you draw the line between what is allegorical or literal?
Thanks for your part in the debate, Michael. I have enjoyed reading some of your writings, particularly your Preterist testimony located on your Full Preterism website. All your charts, particularly the Matt. 24=1 Thess. 4 / 1 Thess. 4=1 Cor. 15 / Matt. 24=1 Cor. 15 comparison charts are really helpful. I just saw there you have very long article about the debate with Dr. Brown. It will be a while before I can get to that but it is on my future reading list. Yeah, I was disappointed also that we could not see your power point slides. Dr. Brown is to be admired for his Christian activism but I am glad I have escaped his futuristic teaching. Blessings.
@@VGameL0v3e12sF012Ree I have a question for you....when Jesus told the Jews that their kingdom would be taken from them and given to a nation bearing its fruit, shouldn't that be taken literally? What about when He said that some standing there wouldn't taste of death till all those things He described would take place. Was that meant to be taken literally?
@@contemplate-Matt.G Can you quote the relevant verses and suggest me a translation that you are saying and using (respectively)?
Boy, I really wanted Dr. Brown to start the debate by saying, "Can I lay hands on you, and invite the Holy Spirit to manifest on you right now in Jesus' Name..." Or giving him a prophetic word. Or healing him of back pain or something. Holy Spirit shows up and boom, end of debate. He had a bad experience? So let's give him a good experience, so his theology can start to follow reality.
A thousand times yes. I use to want to debate. Then I realized we need more Holy Spirit
To me, the clearest teacher of a preterist view is Dr. Lynn Hiles. He doesn’t get caught up in labels, but he lays it out in a 4 part series he recently did on his Facebook page (and now on his TH-cam channel). He clearly covers the beast, the mark of the beast, the number 666, and etc.
Not worth listening to.
Sullivan brought a butter knife to a gun fight....I feel sorry for him....he is an empty suit
The Unforgiven Blasphemy
As Matthew 12 begins to turn fully into the green-horse stage, the Lord declares the following:
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men" (Matthew 12:31)
The word "Holy" in the phrase "Holy Ghost" was added by the King James translators and does not appear in the original Greek text, and the word "Ghost" was translated from the Greek word pneuma meaning "spirit". Therefore, the phrase "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost" in the verse above should have been translated as "blasphemy against the spirit". It is important to bear this in mind as we meditate on this verse (and the verse that follows it, Matthew 12:32).
To better understand the meaning behind Matthew 12:31, we must first consider two of the words used by the Spirit in this verse. The words "sin" and "blasphemy" were translated from the Greek nouns hamartia and blasphemia, which, interestingly enough, only appear together in 3 verses in all of Scripture. Both other times, Mark 2:7 and Luke 5:21, these words appear in the context of the religious leaders questioning a man's authority to forgive:
"4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. 6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, 7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? 8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? 9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) 11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. 12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion." (Mark 2:4-12)
Notice how the scribes considered it a blasphemy for Yeshua to claim that He could forgive sins. Notice also that Yeshua did not reply by saying that He, as the "Only Begotten Son of God" did have the authority to forgive sins. Instead, He responded that the "son of man" did indeed have "exousia authority on Earth to forgive sins" (v11). In other words, Yeshua appealed to His humanity to validate His authority to forgive sins. The stubbornly religious scribes of today, who do not deem themselves worthy (Acts 13:46) of Oneness with God, however, may want to argue that the phrase "son of man" was nothing more than a "code phrase" used by Yeshua to refer to the "Old-Testament" prophesies of a coming Messiah. Pious and "relieving" as this baseless (yet popular) explanation may be, Scripture clearly shows that the phrase "son of man" is not some sort of magical code phrase to refer to one and only one individual in human history, as shown by the following passage:
"21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." (John 20:21-23)
Fittingly enough, the King James translators soulishly bungled the translation of verse 23, using the word "remit" to translate the Greek verb aphiemi, which is the same verb that they correctly translated as "forgiven" in Matthew 12:31 and in all the other verses where it is applied to "sin" in the New Testament. In other words, the original Greek text actually reads, "Whose so ever sins you forgive, they are forgiven unto them", but, just as the scribes of Yeshua's earthly days, the King James scribes found it blasphemous to say such a thing, even when it was being said by God Himself in the Scriptures right in front of them. Considering that the passage above appears in the only Gospel that refers to Yeshua as the "Only Begotten Son of God" (John 1:14, 18, 3:16, 3:18) and the only book that describes Him as such more than once, it is safe to conclude that Yeshua was indeed referring to restored man in general, not just to His historical self, when He said that the "son of man" had the authority to forgive sins. Otherwise, why would He declare that His disciples, who were also "sons of men", had the authority to forgive sins, and even the authority to "retain", i.e.- not to forgive sins (John 20:23)?
It is worth noting that Yeshua declared the disciples' authority to forgive sins after He had blown on them and had told them to receive the Holy Spirit. This means that that authority is not inherent in natural man (the first Adam) but is instead inherent in the resurrected, last-Adam Spirit nature (Colossians 3:1-10, Ephesians 4:24) that is placed in us when we are born again and which gets activated when we walk in Him. Hence, if anyone objects to you forgiving or "retaining" sins whilst you are operating in your last-Adam nature, they are actually objecting to the Spirit of God. By objecting, they are denying God's regeneration work in you, and they are claiming that Yeshua's blow on His disciples (described in John 20:21-23) was nothing more than a meaningless, ineffectual farce. It is then that the person objecting to you begins to enter into dangerous territory, especially if that person claims to worship Jesus and follow the God of the Bible.
From the above, we can see that the religious leaders' accusation of blasphemy against Yeshua was actually a reflection of their own blasphemy against the Spirit, a blasphemy that became evident as the green-horse stage began to settle in over them. As we have shared before, the green-horse stage sees the earthly leadership morphing into a "bald" Korah that has been exposed for what they are: nothing more than a soulish, earthly leadership with no true covering or manifestation of the Spirit that they claim to uphold. It is at this point, after their spiritual disguise has been removed, that they and those who follow them are placed in a position of great accountability, for the excuses to not recognise their nakedness are all but gone. It is at this point where any indictment of those who are truly covered in the Spirit becomes a great, great offence against God Himself, and this is when the consequences of this offence turn inerasable and "unforgiveable". To better understand what this lack of forgiveness is all about, we must delve a little more into the nature of the blasphemy that the Lord refers to in Matthew 12:31-32.
shamah-elim.info/a/sabbath4.htm
33:48
I just realized that's a Jewish Joke
Partial Perterism is even more deceptive.
How so? Do you agree with me that Revelation's discussion of the woman who gave birth (to Jesus) already occurred?
@@davidford15 Nope
Do you agree with me that this already occurred?:
Revelation 12 (KJV), www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12&version=KJV
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
David Ford I never thought about this verse in Revelation, it is outstanding that scripture seems to have a Preteristic world view.
@@thereisnopandemic "this verse in Revelation... seems to have a Preteristic world view" Do you think Rev 11:1-2 was written before, or after, the temple's destruction?
Revelation 11 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English), biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/revelation/11.htm
1 And a reed was given to me like a rod and the Angel was standing and said, "Rise and measure the Temple of God and the altar and those who worship in it," 2 "And the inner court of the Temple leave out and do not measure it, because that is given to the Gentiles, and they will trample The Holy City forty two months. 3 "And I shall grant my two witnesses to prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days while wearing sackcloth."
Do we even have to entertain the absurdity of preterism.
2 Timothy 2:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
Transformation of the Bride We do! Dr Brown said it. It’s dangerous! We not only have to entertain it, we have to crush it like Dr Brown did. Stomp it out. A little spark can lead to a forest fire. Stomp it, spit on it, pour water on it, get a fire extinguisher expel its entire contents, then smash it with the fire extinguisher.
@@junelledembroski9183 Do you agree with me that Revelation's discussion of the woman who gave birth to a child (Jesus) already occurred?
There is no rapture Girgashite minds
Bro, Paul literally gave men over to Satan for teaching this heresy. So much for being a biblical “scholar.” Lol
Dude. How is it heresy to repeat the words of Jesus and the apostals that the coming was eminent? Heresy is to deny what he said.
This generation will see it. Some of you standing here will see Jesus coming on the clouds. (judgement of Jerusalem) Jesus said to the high priest, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”. The high priest himself would be alive when Jesus came back. That is why he rent his clothes - he knew only God comes in the clouds for judgement. The high high priest knew exactly what Jesus was saying. You don't. Nor does the good doctor. He called it blasphemy. Jesus straight up said he would come back in their lifetimes. It is all over the new testament. Where is the heresy?
Brother Michael, how about debating someone who is competent in their theology and debate? This guy is really just a "sraw man" in the flesh for you to easily knock down. That's a technique that you often seem to employ. If you would debate someone who is actually competent when you don't have absolute control of "the mic" and stifle response it would be good.
I’m hardcore conservative Christian. I’m not willing to concede that the gifts have stopped as I have been prophecied over which came to pass and edified my relationship with Christ. That being said I have seen MANY MANY people abuse the notion of spiritual gifts to a point of sacrilege.
Are you part of a church where you stand next to ppl who abuse it? Do you know of a church where as a church the gifts are only expressed like how Paul has commanded in 1 Corinthians?
S Thomas Spiritual gifts are not used at my church Officially. But many in our congregation dohave spiritual gifts
@@guitarded5198 I also belong to such a church like yours. You will be hard pressed to find a church where gifts are exercised biblically.
Slow down Michael we cant understand you
Simple... preterism is for this who do not know Gods word !!
Now that is idiotic.
Who is the body of Christ? Israel or the church?
Does Satan still have the keys to death & Hades or does Christ have them?
His church ,the body. Yes not Israel. The Bible never mentions the kingdom of Israel. Only the kingdom of God or Heaven. Is not the church part of the kingdom of God.
Thank you Mr. Sullivan.
Anyone teaching the Gifts ceased and yet still claim Pastoral positions are false teachers and though may be ignorant to their error but they are liars.
No one today is raising the dead ,,healing the maimed,,,healing the sick ,,healing the diseases,,,,or any other healing ,,,bunch of liars know they can not do that anymore because God said its ceased
@@Wholetruth2024 No He did not and the reason people like you don't see these things occurring is because your weak in faith and require a sign to believe. The gifts were given to prepare the bride to endure until the end unfortunately the false teachers who say God is different today then he was when the church was started is why the masses don't see the gifts operate because ONLY SOME ARE GIVEN AS APOSTLES PROPHETS PREACHERS AND TEACHERS IF THE GIFTS DONT OPERATE TODAY THEN NEITHER DOES ANY OF THE LEADERSHIP GIFTS INCLUDING WHATEVER PROFFESSING PASTOR YOU FOLLOW SCRIPTURE DAYS IN THE END THE BLIND LEADERS WILL LEAD THE BLIND INTO A DITCH IM CONCERNED THE MANY THAT WILL GALL AWAY MAY INCLUDE THOSE WHO BELIEVE AS YOU DO.
@@shawnembrey1118 liars
@@Wholetruth2024 I'm sorry who are the Liars those who actually believe God is still the same today as He was yesterday and the centuries before back to creation that same God can and still is what He's always been you error in your understanding thinking men do those works and to say God doesn't can't or won't doesn't make those of us that trust in the only True God the liars. Unfortunately those who have chased the doctrines of man and devils making God something He clearly isn't. It is surprising how many people today think God can't perform miracles and wonders gove knowledge wisdom and understanding to those HE Chooses to prepare the bride. You make a huge error in claiming God doesn't or can't do something so much to me it could be judged as blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.
@@shawnembrey1118 1 Corinthians 13 :8-10 it's ceased ,it's vanished away,,so don't say those gifts don't cease ,,,you are not raising the dead anymore ,,,it's not happening, God said so
lol... Futurism is a joke! First deal with ALL THE PRIVATE INTERPRETATIONS IN CHRIATIANITY TODAY THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE SIMPLICITY OF CHRISTIANITY
I think you meant the simplicity of the Gospel, which is much easier to understand than the spiritualizing of everything.
Full preterism is heresy if you ask me. Michael Brown did an excellent job at representing the scriptures. Michael Sullivan did an excellent job at distorting the scriptures.
"Full preterism is heresy" How so?
@@davidford15 because it makes 100s of prophecies lies. As dr. Brown pointed out. And it makes Jesus a liar. Read the book of revelation.
"because it makes 100s of prophecies lies. .... And it makes Jesus a liar" 3 instances? "Read the book of revelation" I've read it. Do you agree with me that the writer of Revelation stated that Jesus [Rev 1:7]"cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him"? Do you agree with me that the writers of James and Revelation thought [James 5:8]"the coming of the Lord draweth nigh"?
Rev 1 (KJV)
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants *things which must shortly come to pass;* and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: .... 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for *the time is at hand.* .... 7 Behold, *he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, **and they also which pierced him:** and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.* Even so, Amen.
Rev 22
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants *the things which must shortly be done. * 7 Behold, *I come quickly: * blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. .... 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for *the time is at hand.* .... 12 And, behold, *I come quickly;* and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. .... 20 He which testifieth these things saith, *Surely I come quickly.* Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
James 5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. *Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.*
James 5:7-9
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for *the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.*
9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, *the judge standeth before the door.*
@@davidford15 this is way too much to correct in a post but if you'd like to email me at garland240@gmail.com and share a conversation over the phone id be more than happy to correct this. I'm actually going to start a video for TH-cam on it. Preterism has now reached me hometown and needs addressing. But just for the sake of simple background on how Jesus could validly through scripture prophecy to a future generation and yet partially through the one he was in at that time refer to Deuteronomy 18:15, note who Moses addresses and who it is reference to considering Joshua, the same name as Jesus. Then refer to Deuteronomy 34:9-12. Joshua himself acknowledges that prophecy was about him yet it was unfulfilled. To have correct spiritual understanding of scripture, which preterist DO NOT have in FULL requires understanding patterns and ALL of these are rooted in the books of Moses. Really they're all rooted in Genesis. EVERY doctrine will be approved or denied through Genesis alone.
Not to mention the fact that Revelation was written in the 90s and this is well accounted for. When some clown comes later and tells you world war ii occurred in the 1800s directly after the civil war you need to run.
I hate to sound harsh, but I love the Lord and his word as much as I love my family and kids and I will proudly defend them against error. I love my fellow brethren saved or unsaved but I will correctly and righteously(regarding morally) rebuke false teaching out of care the same as I would the actions of my kids or brothers and sisters . Preterism when you really digest is it blasphemy and heresy and destroys faith and hope. If you see faith and hope in the beliefs of preterism you are deluded and worship in vain as Isaiah said
Mr. Brown appeals to church "fathers" so-called and to tradition, but does not address audience relavance or the context of who Jesus was talking to (his disciples), and by that context, that wicked generation, not our generation. Mr. Brown's only strong argument is "look around" and you will know we are not in the Kingdom? That's not an argument from scripture. This is just presumption of what the Kingdom is about. Jesus said it would be within us, not "look around" or "it's a physical Kingdom for sure" so keep looking. No. Jesus said we would worship the Father in spirit and truth, and that Jesus and Father would be the temple and city. Christians today are still looking forward to something that was already fulfilled.
Sorry friend, your position simply confirms a warning that Paul gave to us and that is not to forget the ROOT that supports you. Your position shows a complete lack of understanding in how the Jews both wrote and understood prophecy. Prophecy is pattern with multiple fulfillments with an ultimate fulfillment. God bless.
@Dave Appleton You and other millennialists just made that up. There is absolutely no justification for multiple types: physical > spiritual > physical, etc. Paul says first the physical, then the spiritual. 1 Cor. 15 is about the end of Torah which is the sting of death (clearly sin death, since Paul has no other teachings about physical death being conquered). All his teaching is about sin.
2 Timothy 4:1 says that "Christ Jesus, who is about to (mello) judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom.” The appearance of the full Kingdom is the coming down of the new Jerusalem from above (it is the full creation of the Christian Age and the dissolving of the Old Covenant age). This is an age without end, but you are instead positing an end of this Christian Age. That is some strange theology that is nowhere found in the scriptures.
This Christian age (Jesus’ age to come) clearly arrived before some standing in front of our Lord had died. Unless you want to argue that Christ was a false prophet-there’s simply no way to get around His statements. This judgment was for their generation (per Matthew 23), which clearly tells us that it was for those leaders living at that time who were soon to be judged. Christ himself made that very clear, but you are trying to make something that is crystal clear, muddy and unclear.
This is the judgement of the living and the dead for killing both our Lord and his prophets. This is the time of vindication of God’s saints. This is their (Israel’s/Judah’s) end time harvest when those wicked servants would be judged and the King would come and destroy their city. Or do you not know the parables? This is when they as chaff and weeds would be burned up. The first fruits came in the first century (obviously), and this clearly implies that the harvest was already in progress-as per Christ's own words. Or do you despise his words? Once the harvest begins, it doesn't take long to end. This harvest is both judgment and resurrection.
And all the Apostles make this clear that they were living in the last days and hours of that age. Is that not clear in their writings? Have you not read those passages in their first century context? Your reasoning is clearly not what is found in the scriptures. And you are going against Christ's own plain words of the harvest being ready. John the Baptist said it was ready and about to come (wrath and cutting down) winnowing fork, etc. (all harvest terms). You have to worm and wiggle your way in around all these plain teachings of Christ and others merely to justify a physical future sci-fi bodies-flying-out-of-graves scenario-which clearly shows both desperation and confusion.
If you take the time and are truly honest with the text and yourself, and put away the cognitive dissonance (as well as pride), you will know the truth of Christ’s statements and be set free. How can you ignore the harvest language and the parables? How can you take the judging of the living and the dead and separate it by a two thousand year (and counting) gap? About to come doesn’t mean two thousand years. The axe was already at the root two thousand years ago. Your position is untenable. You cannot stand against Christ’s own words and win this argument.
@@fullpreteristnow Everything starts in the spirit where God is and then comes to the flesh where we are. Creation was created in the spirit first and then 2nd chapter of Genesis shows how gave life to everything created in the spirit. So before Jesus christ when people died they didn't go to heaven because a place was not made for them, everyone went to sheol. When Jesus came and said 'the kingdom of God is at hand" it means he is the one going to prepare a place for us with him in heaven. So the kingdom is a place where God dwells and Jesus has made a way for us to be with him. Your also right in saying when you have Jesus you have the kingdom with you but don't forget it is also place where we will go after this life.
@@fullpreteristnow I thank God for the day he opened my eyes to the Truth (so I believe :) ) . The Bible just flows in perfect context. The parables in Matthew 21-22 are so obvious now. Did a long lecture study with Ken Gentry, he opened by eyes initially.
Yep. Well said 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Dr. Brown sides with the literal understanding of scripture that Dispensationalists adhere to in the current day American culture. Being such, it is easy for him to seemingly prove a point with a barrage of scripture texts taken out of context.
Mr. Sullivan appears to interpret scripture considering audience relevance, the historical settings of the scripture and the figures of speech employed during the Biblical time and culture. As I have experienced myself, this takes a lot of time and study but yields a more proper apprehension of truth.
The understanding of Preterism will likely come hard to most as they, like me, have grown up in a church culture that has never questioned their Dispensationalism. Particularly they have never dealt honestly with the numerous time statements such as soon, at hand, shortly, quickly, little while, will not tarry, last hour and Yeshua’s own promise in Revelation where he stated several times that he was coming quickly. During Ezekiel’s day the same problem arose when the Jews denied the significance of the time statements. God then made this promise: “For I am Yahweh. I will speak, and the word that I speak shall come to pass. It shall be no more prolonged. For in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, says the Lord Yahweh” (Ezk. 12:25). God does not prolong his promises. Sullivan alluded to this passage but did not have the time to develop it.
Brown took delight in his knowledge that a few Preterists have changed their view. I take delight that I am one of an untold multitude that have ditched the failed predictions Dispensationalists have made in the past 50 years.
Thanks to both Brown and Sullivan for having this debate. I love debates, the church needs more of them.
Good post. I was dispy for 20 years and abandoned it 6 years ago.
God bless you both.
AMEN! God opened my eyes just in December about futurism. Something seemed strange about no rapture in Scripture or teaching, no 3rd temple, all the endless dates set that never happened. Then Luke 21 20 hit me one night. "Wait! That's happened in 66ad!"
I also grew up as a Pentecostal for 25 years I was also a dispensationlist. And the words you said is very true. It took me a lot of studying to end up a Preterist. I remember being afraid that I was going to “blaspheme the Holy Spirit” by the road I was taking. Myself I don’t love debates, because in majority of cases no one is convinced. Both sides always think they won, and I’m not talking about the debaters. I’m talking talking about the groupies in the crowd.
why is it that preterists almost always assume everyone who opposes preterism is a dispenationalist? Dr. Brown doesn't even believe in a pre-trib rapture.
Hi, Dr. Brown. I also have a question. How do you interpret Isaiah 65:17-25? If this "new heaven and new earth" refers to the same thing as in Revelation 21:1, then aren't they radically different portrayals of what it will be like? Especially, Isaiah 65:20,22 implies that people will not live forever, and thus is in direct contradiction with Revelation 21:4.
Mauri Sombowadile They don’t refer to the exact same thing. Isaiah barely distinguishes between the two, because his perspective centers on Israel’s future, but notice that there are two “For behold I create” phrases representing two different future eras, the first representing Rev 21:1, the final state of glory, and the second representing Rev 20:4, the millennial reign. The final state does not have death, but the millennial reign does.
@amos6235 they are not different. The substance of both of the passages are the same. There are not 2 different NH&NE in our future. There is 1 and we are in it. John mentioning the NH&NE would prompt his readers to automatically think of Isa 65&66 and realize that the NH&NE long foretold of was just about to be a reality. Premillennialism of every stripe is a laughable mess.
I'm still not completely sold on full preterism. I think it still has a few difficulties to overcome although I am tending to lean more that way than to full futurism which I just find scripturally untenable. I thought that Michael Sullivan made some good scriptural arguments that Dr. Brown could not refute from scripture. All in all a very good, open and robust debate. Very welcome in these times.
If God gave me the Holy Ghost 43 years ago and caused me to speak in other tongues for about 20 minutes, and the "wind" (John 3:8) blew the fumes of sinful attitudes, emotions and desires out of my heart, and refreshed my soul with His emotions (Gal 5:22-23), and if millions of other believers all over the world have been baptized in Jesus name and received the same Holy Ghost with initial evidence of tongues, and if people are still praying in private prayer anointed by God to pray In tongues, and if people are still prophesying and interpreting other tongues during church services, and if people who don't understand the language of a local assembly of a church are hearing a message in their own language, then 1Cor 13:8 prophecy has not happened yet, tongues, knowledge and prophecy have not ceased because Jesus ("that which is perfect") has not come yet.
that is correct brother amen ,if you got that gift. kept it up by praying in the spirit and asking God for the gift of heavenly interpretation
I don’t think God ever will give me that gift, not that he couldn’t if he really wanted to. It just terrifies me. I’ve heard some people talking in tongues and they were actually speaking in Arabic, and blaspheming Jesus. Scary. I ask God for gifts but not that one. What if I mess it up and blaspheme him in Arabic? Nope. I’d rather have prophecy or anything else. I’d rather be crucified than have that gift. Crucified. The word that is the core word of excruciating.
I have other gifts. Seeing beauty in all. Being touched by scripture and weeping with all of it. The happy and the sad. The triumphant. Loving all people, even those that hate me. That’s a good gift. I cried with a stranger over them finding out they had cancer and I was a cashier at Walmart and prayed over her. In public. I didn’t get embarrassed. I just did what I was supposed to do. I hope it helped. Never saw her again. I just don’t want to mess up a gift and make it the opposite.
Who interpreted your "tongues" and what did you prophecy/say? Did the prophecy come true?
Thats a lot of ifs and they are all experiential. If i think people who speak in tongues are delusional, are they? They certainly appear to be chaotic noodles
No one agreed with Jesus either, lack of agreement from fleshly rulers does not make one wrong.
There's a lot of money to be made in futurism and charismania.
Wow Preterism is delusional theology.
It's replacement theology of which Apostle Paul warned in Romans 11
@@Unknown-ln5ly The remnant is part of the original, therefore there is no replacement. What don't your understand about the word "remnant"? You need to read and understand what the scriptures say, not willy nilly make things up.
@@fullpreteristnow I don't quite know what Remnant you are referring to. But I do know Paul refers to Israel, for he himself saya that G-d has not totally forsaken His physical Israel , but has kept himself a Remnant. If he does not, then He would be a liar & not trustworthy of our worship. When He says forever, that is what he means. Yeshua talked about the fold, the Jewish people with whom he spoke in John 10. He added that there was another fold, thise scattered among the nations as well as those who added themselves to them- a mixed multitude. Shalom
@@Unknown-ln5ly You should know all about the remnant, if you read your Bible.
Paul in Romans 9:27 quotes Isaiah 10:22f from the Septuagint:
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the *remnant* will be saved. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”
Jesus and the Apostles constantly quoted from Isaiah and other O.T. passages about the hope of Israel, the regathering of both Judah and Israel to God. The *remnant* is from both Israel and Judah. Obviously this was happening in the first century, and the final judgment on the city that slew our Lord, would happen when the power of the holy people would be shattered (per Daniel). Here’s Isaiah 10:22f:
In that day the *remnant* of Israel, the survivors of Jacob,
will no longer rely on him
who struck them down
but will truly rely on the Lord,
the Holy One of Israel.
21 A remnant will return, a *remnant* of Jacob
will return to the Mighty God.
22 Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel, only a *remnant* will return.
*Destruction has been decreed* (See Daniel also), overwhelming and righteous.
23 The Lord, the Lord Almighty, will carry out the *destruction decreed upon the whole land.*
Upon the entire land came desolation, including of course, the Temple and Jerusalem. God’s chosen people had now become his enemies and AD70 was the end of Daniel’s 70 weeks. However, he also saved, via the Messiah, a *remnant.* This is why Jesus warned his followers to flee the city when they saw it surrounded. They would be the remnant, along with those gathered from all nations. Again, Daniel decreed the desolation of the city and its temple, by the end of the 70 weeks (70 weeks are determined).
Paul quotes Isaiah 11:10 in Romans 15:12. And when you read Isaiah 11, note the reoccurring phrase, “in that day” used over and over. It is a reference back to the “the day of the Lord” which Christ said would be judgment that he would bring instead (in the place) of his father. Isaiah 11:10f says:
In ”that day” the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious. In ”that day” the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving ”remnant” of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean. In ”that day” the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving ”remnant” of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush,from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean.
He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of ”Israel;”
he will assemble the scattered people of ”Judah” from the four quarters of the earth. Ephraim’s jealousy will vanish, and Judah’s enemies will be destroyed; Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah, nor Judah hostile toward Ephraim.
Paul stresses that the saved will be made up of both Jews and Gentiles
But you should know this. Why do you not know this?
@@Unknown-ln5ly You should know all about the remnant, if you read your Bible.
Paul in Romans 9:27 quotes Isaiah 10:22f from the Septuagint:
Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the *remnant* will be saved. For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”
Jesus and the Apostles constantly quoted from Isaiah and other O.T. passages about the hope of Israel, the regathering of both Judah and Israel to God. The *remnant* is from both Israel and Judah. Obviously this was happening in the first century, and the final judgment on the city who slew our Lord, would happen when the power of the holy people would be shattered (per Daniel). Here’s Isaiah 10:22f:
In that day the *remnant* of Israel, the survivors of Jacob,
will no longer rely on him
who struck them down
but will truly rely on the Lord,
the Holy One of Israel.
21 A remnant will return, a *remnant* of Jacob
will return to the Mighty God.
22 Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel, only a *remnant* will return.
*Destruction has been decreed* (See Daniel also), overwhelming and righteous.
23 The Lord, the Lord Almighty, will carry out the *destruction decreed upon the whole land.*
Upon the entire land came desolation, including of course, the Temple and Jerusalem. God’s chosen people had now become his enemies and AD70 was the end of Daniel’s 70 weeks. However, he also saved, via the Messiah, a *remnant.* This is why Jesus warned his followers to flee the city when they saw it surrounded. They would be the remnant, along with those gathered from all nations. Again, Daniel decreed the desolation of the city and its temple, by the end of the 70 weeks (70 weeks are determined).
Paul quotes Isaiah 11:10 in Romans 15:12. And when you read Isaiah 11, note the reoccurring phrase, *in that day*
used over and over. It is a reference back to the *the day of the Lord* which Christ said would be judgment that he would bring instead (in the place) of his father. Isaiah 11:10f says:
In *that day* the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting place will be glorious. In *that day* the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving *remnant* of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean. In *that day* the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving *remnant* of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush,from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean.
He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of *Israel;*
he will assemble the scattered people of *Judah* from the four quarters of the earth. Ephraim’s jealousy will vanish, and Judah’s enemies will be destroyed; Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah, nor Judah hostile toward Ephraim.
Paul stresses that the saved will be made up of both Jews and Gentiles (a people who are not my people), a group Paul was specifically called to preach the gospel of the end of that age. A gospel, not only of salvation, but of destruction to soon come (about to come, Greek "mello").
But you should know this. Why do you not know this?
I think the great problem some of these debaters have is that in the opening statements they start comparing what they think with what their contender thinks. In my opinion, it is better if the debater just expose what is their interpretation on the topic. It becomes personal from the very beginning instead of argumentative. The audience needs to weight the facts and the reasons and this kind of "this or that guy agrees with me" "My condender says this or that" say nothing. I have no problem with partial preterism, but full preterism has to explain why there are many other aspects in the bible does not allow to exhaust waht pertains to the new creation, like goodness reigning on earth not by some metaphorical reality based on the regeneration of our spiritual being while we still are in a corrupt physical body. Do they alegorize the elements being burning with fire as Peter said? Peter mentioned the flood in the very same passage. Does that mean that the flood in Genesis was metaphorical too? If this is about something metaphorical/spiritual reality brought by the gospel so Jesus is not to come to transform our bodies and the physical reality, Are they insinuating that matter is some kind of evil reality or at least a simple mean to serve some kind of purpose? What about the evil remaining on earth? Is evil everlasting as the righteousness? How isn't that what taoism teaches (Ying Yang philosophy)? The church, which is the interpretative community of the Scriptures, never accepted this, all on the contrary. What I notice about this interpretation is a subliminal insertion of gnostic ideas with taoism. Something is simply not right.
Instead of listening to what the atttack dogs say about Full preterists listen to what they say. Churches,creeds, councils often contradict each other, so don't be scared. Gnostic interpretations about matter being evil and so on - no one I know believes that old canard.
New heavens and earth, the new Jerusalem - as Mr Sullivan clearly stated and you asked (did you even listen?) - is where perfection resides no death, no sin etc, and sin and evil is outside that city at the same time. Look it up in Revelation yourself.
"Blessed are those who wash their robes,[c] so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood"
I am not going through your list - you can listen again, this time listen perhaps.
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV
yes sr,! if they do not have the holy Spirit how can they discern God gifts ?
Preterists must be lacking the Holy Spirit and are unable to rightly divide the word of truth
@Samuel Lev Huh?
@Samuel Lev How much did you pay for the hallucinogens?
@Samuel Lev Twisting the Scriptures to fit your narrative is very dangerous. Full preterism is heretical because it assumes that Jesus has already returned, contrary to Matt. 24:23-26: *_false prophesy_*
Knowledge ceased in AD66 with the house of Israel. No more was written after that year.
Important fact we all may have overlooked:
The 1000 years of Rev. 20:1-5 was not EARTH TIME, it was HEAVENLY TIME, and Heavenly time is defined in 2 Peter 3:8 as we all know:
“But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” Peter was quoting the Psalms: "For a thousand years in Your sight are like yesterday when it is past,
And like a watch in the night." Psalm 90:4
Revelation 20:4 (KJV) 4 …and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus,…, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, …and they lived and reigned WITH Christ
a thousand years.
If you want to fit all of Revelation into a short period of history (shortly come to pass, and the time is at hand Rev.22:10) and INCLUDE THE millennium, go read about the Bar Kockba rebellion in 133 AD, and then think "Gog and Magog."
And then realize the Great White Throne judgment was for souls who were under the law, "and they were judged according to THEIR WORKS." Rev.20:12
I submit the hypothesis that the new heaven and earth is now and death (spiritual death) and Hades are no more!
To view this debate on TH-cam with our Power Point slides visible please go to: th-cam.com/video/l5DZRv56eQg/w-d-xo.html
The way the 2nd guy is debating is in a manner to make the other view sound stupid and ludicrous. It's a tactic to use his tone to make the other viewpoint sound silly.
2 timothy 2:8 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. Wow praise the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 God bless you brother brown
Dearest John, If the 1st-century believers were taught and understood that the resurrection was to be the reanimation of decayed human flesh, how could anyone have possibly suggested that the resurrection had already taken place. All they needed to do was go see if the bones were missing. Can you see my point?
You mean people in the first century could not have simply gone to the graves and had a look? Something about the resurrection tale could not be what futurists today say it is, right?
Every promise is conditional: the "if" statements run from Genesis to Revelation. Where does Michael Brown get that idea that covenants are not conditional? Certainly not from the scriptures.If they are not conditional, then why the curses of Deut. and Leviticus and elsewhere? The land for Christians (for no one else), is the "heavenly country" and a "heavenly city" a better one than the old. One that does not perish. The same one Abraham looked forward to.
Obvious. It'sone of those unbiblical tenets of Protestantism.
Amen!
@J DV I did and they say that God was a husband to her and that she became a whore-an adulterer. Therefore God said that she would be killed-stoned. The marriage was a covenant and she violated that covenant. A reading of Ezek. 16 alone should be enough. Or have you read that?
Mr. Brown, Satan is not deceiving people, but you certainly are, with all your presuppositions about the resurrection of the dead. Paul no where posits in all his writings, the idea of going from physical death to physical life in the manner you describe, so why would he suddenly talk about a new kind of resurrection in 1 Cor. 15. He wouldn't. The N.T. is about a relationship which is a spiritual awakening and identity with Christ: obedience. That is the resurrection. It is a resurrection from sin/death, to life in Christ, and because of Christ. His physical resurrection is the way into that life and relationship. This is the conclusion at the end of 1 Cor. 15, that death has been swallowed up. It absolutely has nothing to do with a new concept of bodily resurrection (to the first century), even if that was what the early church "fathers" thought and taught. Let's get back to what the bible teaches, not the creeds.
@J DV If I'm deceived, then the Apostle Paul was also, since he wrote in 1 Corinthians that the resurrection was currently taking place in the first century. In the greek, the present indicative passive verbs clearly show a raising (presently to Paul) of the dead ones (literally what the greek says). Paul's powerful argumentation refutes the position of the "some" who denied the resurrection of the “dead ones.”
This passage also refutes a future raising, since it was presently happening when Paul wrote. 1 Corinthians 15 contains many instances of abuse of the present passive tense, where translators ignored, weakened, or changed the tense because of their biases. This "rising" was already in progress when Paul wrote these words, which rules out a resurrection of fleshly bodies out of the dirt sometime in our future. Here are just a few of these mistranslations of present passives in I Corinthians 15:
v2-"By which ye are saved" should be translated, "by which ye are being saved," depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote.
v12 -''Now if Christ is preached," should be, "Now if Christ is being preached," depicting a process in progress when Paul wrote.
v15-"We are found false witnesses ... if the dead do not rise'' should be "we are being found false witnesses if the dead ones are not being raised," depicting an ongoing process, when Paul wrote.
v 16-"If the dead are not raised" should be "if the dead ones are not being raised,” depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote.
v26-"The last enemy that will be destroyed" should be "the last enemy that is being destroyed" [there is simply no excuse for this, and all the popular translations do it], depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote, not something way off yonder at the end of time. One has to wonder if Paul wasn't speaking of some death other than physical death, which was not being destroyed as Paul spoke, as physical death hasn't been destroyed even yet, two thousand years later.
v32-"If the dead are not raised" should be "if the dead ones are not being raised," depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote.
v35-"How are the dead raised, and with what manner of body do they come" should be "how are the dead ones being raised and with what manner of body are they coming," depicting an ongoing process when Paul wrote. Notice also the singular body (not bodies) that the dead ones are being raised in. Rather than biological bodies rising at some future time, as is popularly viewed, Paul spoke of one body being raised in his present time. What do we do with that? Dislike it? Say it can't be right? Say Paul misspoke? Deny he said it? Wish he hadn't said it? Try to get around it? Don't tell anyone he said it? Apologize for what he said and say something else? Perhaps “speaking like the Bible speaks” would be the appropriate treatment.
v42-44-"It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption; it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body," should be "it is being sown in corruption; it is being raised in incorruption; it is being sown in dishonor; it is being raised in glory; it is being sown in weakness; it is being raised in power; it is being sown a natural body; it is being raised a spiritual body." Note that both the simultaneous sowing and raising of this singular body are depicted as ongoing processes as Paul wrote. The sowing is going on while the raising is occurring.
How does one get around the Greek, if they are being honest?
First the natural then the spiritual. All was fulfilled in the natural under the old covenant but more to come for the glorious body of Christ
both read the bible both day and night, you read black and i read white.
GREAT JOB MICHAEL S. !!!!!! woohoo!!!!!!!!!
THE BIBLE IS THE STORY of Yahweh's fulfilled plan of redemption given exclusively to ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant law of sin and death and pertains to no one alive today, soteriologically nor eschatologically speaking. ~ Joseph Rohland
Here's more...
IF YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE, then you'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 15:24, that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH JESUS in Matthew 5:18, that not one jot nor tittle of the (Old Covenant) law would pass away until the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with (what Jews referred to as "heaven and earth") passed away.
YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH HISTORY, that the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it passed away in AD 70.
YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH PAUL, who said in Romans 5:13, "Where there is no (Old Covenant) law, sin is not taken into account." This of course means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which was only ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant law of sin and death, which is not us today.
YOU'D ALSO HAVE TO AGREE WITH HEBREWS 9:15, that redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant, which again...is not us today.
THE BITTER PILL OF TRUTH, is that no one has been saved nor redeemed for nearly two thousand years. The "church today" has been in a massive error; a complete hijacking of ancient Israel's exclusive and fulfilled redemptive narrative, the Bible.
"BUT...BUT...I'M A GENTILE!" Are you? The gentiles Paul and the disciples were preaching to were either Greek converts to Judaism, or the elect diaspora , grafted-in descendants of the tribes of Israel who were dispersed among the nations. Through the ministry of the disciple's great commission, they were called out from the nations to again be a holy nation of kings and priests, sealed for the day of redemption, which only they lived to see. Nobody today is a gentile of that sort.
TODAY'S SELF-APPOINTED, SELF-PROFESSING "CHRISTIANS" have been hoodwinked into believing they're sinners under a law that passed away, and need a savior who he came for someone else, who will save them from a sin that's already been removed and a judgement that already happened and allow them into a covenant that was made with someone else. The fact is, we today were never and will never be part of ancient Israel's exclusive and fulfilled redemptive narrative, the Bible.~Michael Bradley
And as always...END THE FED!
Full Preterism, when you dissect it, is diabolical at it's core!
"Full Preterism... is diabolical" How so?
Christian Zionism/Dispensationalism..is what's diabolical.
Contra Mundum 2.0 [Paradigm Shift] preterism and dispensationalism are both heresy.
@@contramundum2.0paradigmshi10 The Lord said to the Jews, you will not see me again until you say Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord and also He is coming on the Mount of Olives. The Jews have to be in the land for that to happen.
You realize what would happen if a star fell to the earth right!!? And if the sun literally stop giving it’s light? And the moon ? C’mon man lol, you go ahead and keep waiting for Superman or the avengers.. which is where all these movies get their Ideas from.
Haha love that statement "You realize what would happen if a star fell to the earth right"
"What language..." over and over again. This trick does not work Brown. Sullivan answered the question and you did not respect.his answer. He accepted the language in its context. Neither Sullivan nor you nor anybody else should be speculating about any other language when coming to Scriptures.
Read the Jewish Wars by Josephus. During the destruction of Jerusalem. 1000s of people saw chariots and angels running in the clouds
DrBrown can you explain Rev. 1:3.
Anyone who says Jesus has returnes has utterly bumbed their head
Wow, Brown is so patronizing. Make one question his rationale.
I Feel sorry for all those trapped by their emotional attachment to Futurist error. How many of you will be deceived when the false messiah comes?
Daniel in ch 12 wrote of the time of distress for the Israel, also the resurrection. The prophesy of Daniel 12 was fulfilled in the generation which Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24. So if Matthew 24 which Jesus is quoting Daniel 12, how is the resurrection and the coming of Jesus in a distant yet future. What does it mean that Jesus said he would come back before the apostle go through all of Israel Matt. 10:23.
In Daniel it says the kingdom will be given to the saints and they will rule forever and ever, also Jesus said the disciples will rull over the 12 tribes of Israel. Has this happened?
@@katlegomoatshe1312 Daniel 12 puts the events at the destruction of the second temple. So we must filter everything through times of those events.
Sullivan's view is the view consistent with scripture and teachings of the apostles... Brown's view is the view consistent with modern christian church culture . two totally different things really even though they both look similar on the surface
Brown's ' it doesn't get better than this ' forgets that heaven is waiting for those in Christ .
@2:05:00 when the answer is just so long to explain a simple verse. Red flag that.
Interesting that he kept twerling that empty bottle (vessel) at the end.
Dr. Brown....Green check mark
Michael Brown needs rather, a Greek check, but he failed that class. Some of you know what that mark looks like.
decisive mike brown victory
Hands-down of course. Lol
Nah.
An important note on Irenaeus, a popular preterist talking point: Preterists are either being extremely disingenuous regarding Irenaeus, or they are unaware that Irenaeus wrote not once but twice in his work 'Against Heresies' that John survived into the time of TRAJAN and not just Domitian. How then can there be any question about whether he was referring to John's vision or to John himself being seen near the end of Domitian's reign? At best this is sloppy scholarship. At worst it's a willful deceiving of those who haven't read up on Irenaeus. That's like if you had a grandparent who passed away in 1995, and you said they were seen almost in our day towards the end of Ronald Reagan's presidency in the United States. Reagan obviously left office in the 80's so it makes no sense to relegate their life to an earlier time when they lived beyond that time frame.
Here is the quote:
“We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision.
For [it or he] was seen not very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.”
- Saint Irenaeus, Adversus haereses 5, 30, 3
And yes, Irenaeus got Jesus' age wrong on account of a faulty interpretation of John 8:57. But to then make the claim on a completely unrelated topic that it is also suspect thanks to this error has yet to be extended to any other writer that I'm aware of. It's the 'Irenaeus treatment', as I like to call it. Let me ask you this, the reader if you're a preterist, have you ever misinterpreted a verse? If so, does that disqualify you indefinitely from ever making a true statement? Is everything else you've ever said automatically wrong thanks to your misinterpretation of a Bible passage? If the answer is no, then why is this supposedly the case with Irenaeus? Has every written statement by Josephus or others preterists rely on been proven factual beyond a shadow of a doubt? If there is just one error anywhere to be found in their writings, why wouldn't this be an automatic 'disproving' of everything else they stated? This is cherry-picking to the nth degree. Has a trusted relative or friend ever told you something they genuinely believed true that you later learned to be false? How, then, can you trust anything they say ever again?
And why is Hegesippus never addressed by preterists? He recorded John's banishment under Domitian and not Nero. And he wrote this decades before Irenaeus ever did.
Even if the Apocalypse was seen in 69 (following the reign of Nero) - which is the point of the different reading of Irenaeus and which I will not completely dismiss as a possibility - it doesn't necessarily proof Preterism correct.
The internal evidence in Revelation is much more convincing for an early date.
@@contramundum2.0paradigmshi10 The internal evidence however is only tangible (the book never clearly gives a date) and would not contradict a late date. Hence, the external evidence trumps the internal evidence.
@@str.77 flawed reasoning. We will agree to disagree for now
@@contramundum2.0paradigmshi10 How is my reasoning flawed. There are some verses that would fit better if the Apocalypse was seen under Galba but do not conflict with a date under Domitian. Then there is the external evidence that says it was seen under Domitian.
BTW, I am not really 100% convinced that the late date is right. I am just commenting on the evidence. External evidence might still be wrong.
Good news bad news. The bad news is, the devil is powerful and is still at work in his children, the GOOD NEWS is, God is ALL-POWERFUL and His Spirit is still at work in HIS children.
All people are God's children. God ransomed all his indebted children with his own blood.
David Ford
Either you're wrong or God is wrong. I'm willing to bet my soul that it is YOU who is wrong.
"it is YOU who is wrong" How so?-- details?
David Ford
Okay, let me try to educate you.
THE BIBLE says that;
1) You have to be ADOPTED into the family of God Romans 8:15
2) This is done by RECEIVING Christ and His spirit John 1:12
3) We can know who God's children are and who the devil's children are. 1 John 3:10
4) Jesus Himself called people who rejected Him and the Truth, children of the devil. John 8:44
So if YOU reject this free education that I'm trying to give you from the word of God, then satan is also YOUR daddy.
So... WHO'S YOUR DADDY?
David Ford
Seriously though David, are you a Christian?
Dr brown, says the writers of the New Testament tell us .... No, they were telling the people they were writing to. He says that every Christian has always expected Christ to return in their life time. He and anyone that believes that , only gets that from reading letters written to other people, those leaving prior ad70. It is clear then, that he believes that is what the scriptures taught, Christ to appear in the lives of the reader. Problem is, is was not address to him. I know of one book in the bible that was told to be read in another church, but that church was not Dr Browns. Regardless of what ones view is of how things were to pan out, it is clear that it was to happen in the readers lifetime. If Jesus’s warning was “ don’t be deceived” and he told them when they see specific things that will signs of his coming, but in fact he didn’t come, that would make Jesus a deceiving teacher. On the contrary, Jesus told them what they would see, they were given the spirit that would lead them into all truth, reveal things that were to happen, but peopl today disregard that and say , it was written for us today. People we have over 40000 denominations who say they have the truth. Back then there was only one group who showed and proved the message they preached was true and Jesus told them, not to be deceived, not us
Some that Saw Jesus Die Witnessed Jesus' Return in Power and Glory
tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/jesus-returned-in-power-and-glory/
Yes, the prophet Jesus returned by the end of A.D. 70. Jesus the son of Mary prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem and prophesied that he'd return shortly, and he did so. Some that Saw Jesus Die Witnessed Jesus' Return in Power and Glory tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/jesus-returned-in-power-and-glory/
What do you make of the "chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour... seen running about among the clouds"?
Josephus, Book VI, Chapter 5, Section 3 (Entire)
www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_theological.html#Book_VI,_Chapter_V,_Section_2
The Signs That Preceded The Destruction .... Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year (4). Thus also, before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eight day of the month Xanthicus, [Nisan,] and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day-time; which light lasted for half an hour (5). This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskilful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it.
Tisha Be'AV - Churban HaBayit
At the same festival also, a heifer, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, brought forth a lamb in the midst of the temple. Moreover, the eastern gate of the inner, [court of the temple,] which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be opened of its own accord about the sixth hour of the night (6). Now, those that kept watch in the temple came thereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared, that this signal forshewed the desolation that was coming upon them.
Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one-and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities (7). Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking (8), and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." (9)
“A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset chariots were seen in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities.” (Chilton, Jerusalem Under Siege) ....