Corrin: "I don't want to fight you." Elise: "I don't want you to fight them." Serena and Laslow: "We don't want you to fight them." Camilla and Leo: "We don't want to fight you." All of Nohr: "We don't want you to fight them." All of Hoshido: "We don't want to fight you." Xander himself: "I don't want to fight you." Garon: "Fight them!" Xander: "I'm fighting you."
I feel like the whole reason why Fates' story is such a mess is because they made Garon WAY too evil. If we actually got to see Garon have some benevolence or human decency, then not only would've made the initial choice seem less one-sided, but it would've given Xander a reason to stay beside Garon even if Corrin chooses Hoshido. But what did they do? They made Garon Satan incarnate. He doesn't care about his children, hires serial killers as his retainers, and puts his own desires over his own people. He might as well kick puppies and eat orphaned babies while he's at it.
If it was implied that he eats orphaned babies, that’d be messed up, but if Garon were to kick puppies, I’d beat the ever living shit out of him even though I know I’d get fucked up 😂 i’m sorry I just love dogs.
though the game never implies Garon eats orphans and kicks puppies... it never says he doesn't either. Considering the great nohrian food shortage of 918, it is very possible Garon did eat orphans. And considering the great shortage of sabaton kick testers in 919, he probably kicked puppies as well.
Fates had to have had different writers, right? The Story and Support teams can't be the same people, I refuse to believe that with how much contradiction there is in the one game.
The mangaka only wrote out the outline. A 300 page outline, but an outline nonetheless. The final draft and story was ultimately up to IS. At least, that's what I've gathered from the sources I've read. There was also a lot of staff brought on for Fates but I don't know how much new blood was brought in for the storyboard.
Worst part about the birthright endgame thing is that it seems they did all that garbage because they REALLY wanted elise and xander to dramatically die, but for some reason figured this was the best way. But it was so god damn easy to have it actually make sense... Sure, Xander could be Chapter 26's boss, you fight him, he is defeated but spared like Leo and Camilla, and perhaps with some swaying by Elise, agrees to go with them to the throne room and try to talk Garon into diplomacy. Then we get to Chapter 27, and Garon can be all assholes while Xander points out they already pretty much lost this war, and that at this point they might as well try to strike a deal that might spare their people from unnecessary suffering. Then Garon could call him a worthless coward or whatever, and try to kill him. THEN Elise jumps in to save Xander and gets killed instead, and THEN Xander flips out over garon killing his own daughter and not even giving a shit, and despite having already been injured in the previous chapter and having everyone else tell him to not do anything rash, he goes in, calls Garon out on being a monster and how much he's sick of turning a blind eye to that because of duty or whatever and fights garon. But, ultimately, due to his aforementioned wounds and the fact that Garon is indeed pretty fucking strong, he ends up killing Xander, and cue the chapter itself. And there you go. You get all of your dramatic deaths, and as a plus, Xander is not being a completely insane buffon on that situation. Instead he plays as a fairly understanding person trying to do what's best for his people. Even though he would be throwing his life away just the same, it's in a more believable way, what with it being a reaction to a loved one being killed in front of him. Hell, you could call it even courageous. Bonus points for Garon being the perpetrator as well as the boss of the chapter, so the player is extra-pissed off at him and REALLY wants to see the bastard drop dead. The other instances where StoryXander is a fucking idiot would be even easier to fix, probably not requiring major changes besides the dialogue itself.
Phalconid They could make it like the Invisible warrior fight in the Prologue where Ryoma fights the Ganglari user, but due to his nature differing from Ryoma he would perish rather than flee. It would also show story telling through game play and he would die in the following cutscene.
Phalconid I agree that yours is way better and definitely will give more shock aspect to Elise and Xander's deaths. Elise death in conquest is so forced it makes me think that Conquest is written first, bc Takumi and Ryoma's deaths really hit you, while Elise and Xander's death is like "hmm lets kill Elise bc she's adorable and have Xander accidently kills her and still wants to fight you even after his sister's last wish and force Corrin to kill him yup that will be a sad moment (which is not btw)"
What I hate about Xander is how he doesn't realise that fighting for Nohr and fighting for Garon are two completely different things, and he becomes a hypocrite by ignoring his siblings yet following Garon.
The worst thing about how Xander reacts in Birthright is the fact that in Conquest Ryoma doesn't act the same. In Conquest Ryoma continuously tries to get Corrin to return to Hoshido and never becomes completely hostile until he thinks Corrin killed Hinoka. Why is it that Ryoma is calmer and less hostile towards Corrin than Xander when Ryoma has more of a reason to be upset with Corrin choosing the opposite side.
+Conner Rose Because Xander wasn't truly upset at Corrin, he was just trying to get Corrin to kill him, Xander knew there was something wrong with Garon the whole time and to get Corrin to kill him he decided to just act like an asshole because Corrin wouldn't kill him otherwise, and Xander can't commit suicide like Ryoma since Xander is a kinght and a prince of Nohr so he needed a different way to kill himself since unassisted suicide would just look terrible for him and the kingdom, still this situation was handled poorly and out of character because Xander isn't the type of person to give up like that so it's just shitty writing, I can guarantee you that if they made it so that Ryoma lives in conquest they wouldn't have made Xander so contradictory to his actual character because they wouldn't have felt the need to give the avatar a reason to kill Xander since normally there would never be a reason to kill Xander unless he WAS out of character. Also in chapter 12 Ryoma definitely isn't all that hostile towards Corrin but is kinda going to extremes with the "join us or your little sister dies" approach, obviously i don't think Ryoma would ever do that and it was just the bad writing at play here like with Xander.
I like to believe that it's also to show the parallel between Nohr and Hoshido, Xander being the more violent and blunt type to Corrin since that's the potrayal that is shown in that route and Ryoma being more passive until action is needed... it's still absolute bullshit tho lmao
I think the reason Xander is set up like this is because the fates writers realized that if someone like Xander(support) existed in the main story, then there would be no reason for there to be a split in paths and the game would be over in an hour.
@@Plasticsoldier64 There should have just been one linear straightforward narrative. Ideally the Conquest version of the story (with some rewrites) should have been the sole canonical path, with the Birthright and Revelations path scrapped entirely.
It would've been smarter if Xander said Elise's attempts to talk him out won't sway him, as he knows this is her quality. But remarks she made a respectable effort.
@@Mashichu_Kunrin the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
Anankos worst character in fire emblem confirmed? Let me list what exactly Anankos as well as Valla did: -Made the plot have a simple solution and removed any sense of a grey area. Also made any path seem invalid as there was an actually good solution. -Ruined Xander, Azura and Corrin as characters. -Made Garon a simple and purely evil villain that nobody should ever have followed after Anankos had possessed him.
Andrew Barshtein He just wanted to be Gharnef, and Garon just wanted to be Hardin. The difference? You actually SEE Hardin being a good guy, for an entire game!
Andrew Barshtein He also gathered his Grandchildren and their friends from *2 seperate dimensions* in one place to emotionally torment them for his amusement and desire to die only to make them forget the entire event.
There needed to be an excuse for 1. Nohr and Hoshido to become allies 2. explain how the Awakening trio came to Nohr 3. (and most importantly) not make the player feel bad for wanting to marry Corrin to their siblings Valla could have been very interesting like Hoshido and Nohr, but shoving the awareness of its existence into one path really hindered that. And a little off-topic, but as a Vallite herself, I was surprised and disappointed that Lilith didn't have a greater role in the story besides being the castle-keeper, and emotion fodder when she dies.
Lilith getting shafted (even more than BR and CQ, wherein she still gets just a hamfisted Heroic Sacrifice) is only the start of REV's problems. The whole game really needed more time to gestate and develop, not be released as quickly as it was - maybe then, people would have started to see the corresponding issues between character vs. story and course-correct it over time. A rewrite/rerelease would be nice, but it would most definitely emerge as a different product altogether... similarities, but very different. If only someone on the narrative's writing team (and in the case of characters like Peri, the Support writing team) had put some actual effort into things instead of a bare-bones skeleton like we got.
I think it would've been much better if Xander honored Elise's dying wish and layed down his sword, only to be subsequently murdered by Garon in a surprise attack. Be it in the very same room, or joining Corrin and the Hoshidan forces and confronting Garon himself in the throne room.
@@axolotlsgonewild having his youngest sister die by his own hand and agreeing to stop the fighting only to have been killed by the monster who started all of the bloodshed would have been gut wrenching
As expected, this was a brilliant episode. I've never even realised how hypocritical Story Xander is. It's such a shame that the story writers ruined such a well written character. It's quite sad to be honest... Oh well, I'm really looking forward to the next one, keep it up man!
Like I said in my earlier comments, Xander's dedication to Garon would be highly interesting-as seeing characters perform mental gymnastics to try and justify their like of someone who is clearly horrible, or rationalize their suffering is a great way to give depth. However, this would only work if Garon well written. Tbh, I once read a Visual Novel that did Xander's character better than Fates and it was focused on bullying of all things.
I actually would have liked Xander's relationship with Ganon if it was done better. Seeing characters rationalize fucked up situations because they can't deal with the reality of it, is always going to be insanely interesting.
I mean wasnt the joke is garon is ganon or something like that im not fan of zelda enough to know but they both comically evil....Nah is best awakening child Welp i will nvr got bored of that
@@michaelmagnimedia3331 ganonforf is waaay better than garon, garon is just bland, ganon makes some pretty interesting points that actually make sense in wind waker
I thought the reason story Xander existed was obvious: It's to not make the player feel bad about their option. It's the same reason Hoshido, a peaceful nation that had a barrier that caused people not to want to fight, suddenly turns awful; heaven forbid you have to think about your decisions in the game.
And why would you regret your decision to pick a path? Obviously no matter what choice you choose you're going to stomp over someone's feelings. So it's kinda stupid to have a person behave like a dunce just because of Corrin's decision? It makes the characters far less believable. Even worse, is that Corrin only shows this sentiment in Conquest and no other path which makes such a thought even more ineffective. Your character doesn't care, why should we, the audience find more investment into a world than the characters? The issue with Xander is that he's really inconsistent. The story has him as irrational, vindictive, and conveniently thoughtful (thanks for sending Elise and friends in Chapter 7 man!), cowardly, or even stupid and while multiple emotions are indicative of a person being decidedly human, the issue is that his own behavior contradicts and harms potentially himself as well. Getting angry at Corrin for leaving Nohr? Sure. But then immediately telling him/her to come back after you just beat the tar out of them? Like... What's even happening here? This isn't even two different scenes, it's the same scene! There's no excuse for that nonsense. Support Xander on the other hand.. Has none of these problems (outside of Peri). I can understand Xander not wanting to kill his father, this makes sense, and it works from a plot perspective-- however, it DOES NOT work from a support perspective at all. This is the biggest issue with Xander, is that his supports directly contradict how he behaves in the story. Leading to a muddled mess of a character. And this isn't even just a problem with Xander, we have great characters like the Awakening Trio, Azura, or even Corrin him/herself to demonstrate this as well.
@@Elyseon the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
Honestly it's characters like this that make me believe that the writing team for the story and supports were two completely different teams with little communication between the two
@@emblemblade9245 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
Support Xander is what i want to be as an older brother and as a person Story Xander is stupid They shouldn't have separate writers for supports and story they should be the same In Birthright chapter 26. I think that instead of being an idiot and fighting you, Xamder should join you and be either a green unit or an unplayable character like Elise, and fight some of Garon's forces that stupidly belive him, and also Xander's retainers because they don't know what's really happening. the Chapter's objective would be to keep him alive if he were a green unit ( which wouldn't be that hard because Xander would probably beat the crap outta everyone) or to talk/kill his retainers, like BR Chapter 23, that would be cool because then we would be able to spare Laslow ( one of Fates' best Non-Royal Characters and one of Awakening's best children) and Kill Peri. "But if Xander doesn't die, how are we supposed to have a similarity to Conquest when Ryoma kills himself?" Well, Xander shouldn't die by Corn to make it more emotional, Xander should've died in a CGI Scene where he defies Garon. That would be pretty cool But those were just my ideas.
If Xander had to die they could have made it that he tried to take on garon himself before corrin's army show up to help and was badly wounded in the process though still insists on fighting. Then after the battle he gives into his injuries.
I would have done that too. I believe that a knight or prince or really anyone should die fighting for what they believe in. How could he not have known Garon was so awful and that he should break away from him? If Garon was a bit less one dimensional, I would understand if he kept following him.
I'm playing Revelation currently and I just can't shake the memory of that one scene where Xander and Leo are talking and Garon is just standing there ranting to the ceiling and Xander is like "this is probably fine"
Rudolph Consuegra You're right. Inigo has been constantly whispering into Ghast's ear at night to use the radish and it's getting creepy and out of hand. You shouldn't call Ghast an ass though that's not very nice.
I think that, that is the problem with supports like these that we see in the latest two games. The supports feel like a different universe than the game. Some are bad, some are good, but in both games they have no effect in the game. Supports should complement the game, not be some fluff on the side. I hope that moving forward supports are taken into consideration for the story from the beginning and hopefully we could get a better flow between supports and story.
Yaoifanboy Once upon a time in a game called Fire Emblem Rekka no Ken, there were supports that related to the past chapter(s). Though, it was only later characters that displayed this.
It's not just that by itself, it's that outside of revelations he makes no action to question or do anything about the obviously erratic actions of Garon.
It's not that he's a Camus character, though. It's that he's an extremely inconsistently-written character, Camus or not. I mean, like the video brought up, he's shown that he's not 100% slavishly dedicated to his father in his support with Corrin, enough that he claims to be able to stand up to some of his crazier orders/decisions...but he never does in the actual story.
Yeah, I absolutely despised Xander in Birthright and lead me to not really enjoying him in the other routes either. Like said before, Xander is too determined to follow his father, which leads to his downfall in Birthright and I absolutely hate him for that. I really started to dislike him when he killed Elise. Not that he killed Elise, but how he treats her wish. He completely disregards it and FORCES Corrin to fight him, even when Corrin brought up Elise's wish. This scene also made me lose respect for Corrin, as he hardly tries to stop Xander. He just goes in and fights and it really disgusts me on both sides.
MatthewStar Gaming I don't blame than on corrin though. I mean, if you're being attacked by one of the best Knights in that world, I don't think you have any other choice that to fight. Corrin at least realized that if Xander was going keep fighting, he had an army to lead and therefore had virtually no choice in whether to fight or not.
And if Xander really love Corrin so much, than Birthright wouldn't exist, because Xander, Leo and Camilla would rush trough the hoshidan nobels, take Corrin and head back to Nohr. No bad writing or plot holes whatsoever
Xander should have been the Main Lord of Fates. I still love all 3 games but Xander is just something else and deserved more importance and influence in the story.
I believe they made Conquest's and Birthright's endings unsatisfying and dumb just so people would buy the other story route just to see what happens. It's just greed ruining the story, really.
I don't really like Xander and I love Ryoma, but I feel like their relationship to one another to be surprisingly well written. They are alike in the wrong ways and opposite in every other. In their a support they aren't friends, but they respect each other. Ryoma is designed around ideal Chivalry and is more the Camus archtype (loyalty to motherland). Xander is designed around Bushido and is more the Eldigan sub-archtype(loyalty to king). It's most obvious in their deaths. Visually Xander dies the death of Chivalry and Ryoma Bushido, but the intention is reverse. Xander essentially commits suicide to regain the honor lost as atonement for harming his family much like seppuku. Ryoma sacrifices himself to save the life of someone who wronged him, faking the action of Bushido while more accurately following the western belief of immitatio Christi (imitation of Christ ie to sacrifice your life for the salvation of another). It is because of this that Xander cannot question Garon, a samurai *cannot* question their elder. Their ability even reflects this. Xander's skill demands an opponent be at top fighting strength as per an ideal Bushido duel. Ryoma's Bushido revolves around protecting the weak, a trait of idea chivalry. What do you think Ghast? I'd value your opinion.
You do know that Xander stays loyal to the king solely for the fact that he felt that he had to for his people and his country right? he didn't die for honor he died because he thought he didn't have a choice and that revolting against the king would look like betraying his own country from an outside perspective, he would rather die over the thought of his country falling apart due to his actions so he just paints himself as a villain for Corrin because the writers didn't know how to handle the situation.
Crouching Tiger Hidden Jew Yes but that still doesn't discount my point. Eastern thought is about collectivism and in Bushido you can only redeem yourself in death. Because of this Xander believes that he needs to die. Western culture is more individualistic and western and redemption is influenced by the notion of redemption through Christ. Ryoma sacrifices himself to save an individual he believes will right wrongs and deserves a second chance. Does that make more sense?
@JAMS Dream I beleive that's intentional. I mean their Personal skills are even called Bushido and Chivalry on Ryoma and Xander respectively. Ryoma's Bushido is about protecting the weak (Ryoma gets a boost when paired with a lower level unit) which his what a knight's oath represents. Meanwhile Xander's Chivalry gives him a boost when his opponents is at full HP which is a foreign concept to European duels which proposed god selected the just winner and thus your health was of no consequence vs Japanese duels which were more about proving strength and thus it was preferable that both combatants be in fighting condition. I also think Ryoma's underhanded tactics (such as stealing Elise's medicine and having both retainers be spies) play into this. Similar to how Nobunaga Oda is infamous in japan as being a samurai who used trickery. Nobunaga Oda is also known to have followed western tradition and had both fire arms and a western styled breastplate. He wad criticized for supporting open debate between Christians and Buddhists rather than maintaining rules that forbid the former to express their beliefs. There are a bunch of other little details that make me beleive he's based more on western knights or at least is a more western styles Samurai like Nobunaga, but some of those could just be idealized views of a ruler in general. Their pref skills and deaths are the most compelling arguments imo.
This video is the absolute pinnacle of observing Fates and its writing/characters. Some of the supports in Fates are really well done, and they show off good sides of all the characters, giving them backstories, motivations, and doubts. But the stories of all three paths contradict everything that the supports tell you about them. What's most baffling is that how Fates focuses purely on Corrin, Azura, and the royals of your chosen side, yet they could not make Xander consistent. The one character I believe feels like a proper character is Saizo; he's relevant no matter what side you pick, has a backstory that is brought up no matter the path, and his supports with both Ryoma and Kaze show off how dedicated he is to his heritage. He's a well written character - barring his C with Beruka - but because he is not royal he gets cast aside once his chapter is done. It perfectly brings up my problem with Fates and its characters; they all had so much potential but nothing was done for them.
That is the downside of having a permadeath mechanic : since the character may die before you even reach the chapter centered around them, you can only focus on them in the level they’re introduced in.
I think the writers are trying to alienate normal Xander's established personalty just so he can seem more antagonistic for Hosido's Story but yeah that's some pretty nasty bullshit going on.
It could be argued that he's this way in birthright due to grief that Corrin has turned against Nohr and because of this he's clearly not thinking straight, but it goes too far. There still has to be something to like about him.
@@Superluigi881 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
Thank YOU for making these videos! Your support science series is what brought me to your channel, and your randomized Conquest let's play convinced me to stay. Really enjoying everything here, so thanks! :D
Ghast There are a few excuses for Xander's behavior in several situations that aren't considered, however. In chapter 2, when Xander attacks Corrin to get to the prisoners, it's right after Garon made one prisoner's head explode and Corrin was getting in the way. Garon absolutely would have killed Corrin if Xander had not stepped up and basically said he'd do it for Garon and then made attacks that wouldn't actually kill Corrin. He didn't really have a good plan, and Leo saved his bacon, but that's at least partly excusable by being forced to rush in half-cocked with no real plan. When excusing Garon's madness as being "under the weather", keep in mind that they're also in public at the moment. He's stopping Leo from publicly questioning the king's sanity, which could potentially be grounds for a claim of treason if, to use a Japanese expression, the walls have ears and the doors have eyes. Xander is basically trying to manage a raging omnicidal lunatic backed up by cackling jackals in the form of Hans and Iago that will take any chance to turn the king against his siblings, so he's basically just trying to be a buffer. Hence, he can be human in private, but acts like a door post that repeats the party line in public. That's also why he can't publicly acknowledge Garon's obvious lunacy when confronted with concrete evidence of it, at least until he's actually ready to fully break against Garon. By the end of Birthright, he's fully committed to the villainous side to the point of breaking ties with his family to do it... but did you notice what happened to Takumi in Conquest? Especially considering his turnaround after death, it's entirely possible that the same insanity field sent out by Anankos was corrupting Xander. It can't excuse everything, but it does at least mitigate some of the problems Story Xander has.
I think what the writers intended with Elise's death was sorrowness, hopelessness and suicide wishes in Xander. They wanted him to feel like a cornered Lion extending his fangs, and the moment he slays his little sister he was supposed to be suicidal and regretful. He killed Elise, and as such wanted to die himself to make the suffering and the regret end. He was supposed to feel like a nihilist that gave up on life and just wanted to die, so he drew his sword for a final duel. He didn't convey his feelings properly in any of these scenes and it made him feel like a douchebag jerk that just wanted to attack them. But if we take things from a different perspective, Xander's final chapter might not be his weakest, but his strongest. Why? Because all the other moments you have with Xander are what brought him into this shitty situation. All the horrible writing errors there were in the few chapters you got to see him established that he is a blind and ignorant fool, and as far as I'm concerned, taking into consideration how many bad things happened to him while Corrin was captured by Hoshido, Xander's final reaction seems... believable? He was a man of his word, of his family, and wanted to be the guiding big brother for all of them. Suddenly some tanned woman and a green haired Ninja pull him out of his home and territory and his loved family member just speaks up to him in a manner so disrespectful and unexpected that he feels reinforced in his behavior and that he is doing the right thing. Over the course of the game, as Nohr also suffers under the war's conditions, (Namely that thanks to Corrin, Hoshido is mightily kicking their asses!) Xander starts to lose it. Elise continuously talks about peace and negotiating it, Camilla seems to lose her mind completely as well and Leo is his younger, less influential brother that he feels he has more authority over. He has no reason to doubt his own intention, in fact he feels more confirmed in doing what he does because the rest of his family, despite all of his efforts to be a caring brother to them, turned on him and cornered him. Just like he said, he is the Crownprince of Nohr. He is the only one in the family who can't point his finger into the right direction, and his family doesn't want to understand that. They don't respect at all that he tried so hard to protect them and feels as if everyone turned against him out of the blue. Because you aren't on Nohr's side this time, Nohr feels less unjust in how they act. Xander isn't a subject to Hans' moral dilemma, Xander isn't there to see the civillians of Cheve being turned into Ashes, and he especially isn't there to see Garon snap. In Conquest, Garon completely loses his mind as Corrin returns and subjects her to the worst possible jobs to break her mentally and progressively becomes insane as he fails to do so. This gives Xander a view, an insight on Garon's corrupted mind. In Birthright however, none of this happens. Cherche isn't burned down, Hoshido infiltrates Cherche using Scarlet and Hans' is designated into completely different areas, none of them mentioned. For all we know, not even Hans might be killing civilians on Nohr's side. He's no longer ordered to do so to break Corrin's sanity, so Garon could easily have deported him to do dirty jobs like taking down smaller Hoshidan armies. The next time we get to see Hans, he trains the royal guards. All of this coming together makes Xander's final acts seem realistic. He is a cornered man that feels as if the world turned against him, and while on the outside he seems to be this strong, opportunistic man, on the inside he is a crumbling little boy that hits a training dummy with a wooden sword to ventilate his frustrations. His facade breaks when Elise chooses to ultimately betray him in the worst possible way, by forcing him to lay down his sword by getting her killed. All of this comes together to one final act of self-loathing and depression. Xander felt betrayed by everyone, both Corrin and then his siblings, which resulted in him drawing his sword to force Corrin to end his life. Xander knew he couldn't win, Corrin confirms this by saying he held back. All he wanted was his sister/brother to end his miserable, loyal Nohrian life of betrayal and depression. I agree with most of your points, but to call the final chapter of Xander the worst just isn't right in my opinion. Given what happened in Birthright and how poorly he was written in literally every single chapter, you can't blame him for doing the most optimal thing that the storywriters intended for him at that point. It's not his final scene, but the scenes before the final scene that led to this catastrophy and THAT is the real problem. Given what he was intended to do in his last moments, I think they nailed it 100%. The idea of making him turn out to be this shitty might be an 0/10, but I think his final moments were a 10/10 given what he had to work with, personality-wise and story-wise. Also, and just as a little thing to throw in as a thinker: Xander said he let his feelings decide, not his duty. You might THINK this means that Xander spared Corrin and let him/her end his life, but what if Xander doesn't talk about letting Corrin win? What if theoretically, Xander talks about his decision to duel Corrin to begin with? He had the duty to drop his sword for the good of his people. For the good of Nohr. But he listened to his enraged and depressed feelings, attacking Corrin to find the embrace of death. It could quite literally be a completely reversed scenario.
@@capadociaash8003 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
well, it appears that this game had two different teams developing it and revelations script was outsourced. the youtube channel Chronicles goes more into the development of fates.
You make a lot of very good points here. One thing you don't mention, though-and how much of Xander's behavior this excuses, if any, is debatable-is that it's mentioned several times that before becoming a goo demon or a dark dragon, Garon used to be an affectionate father. Xander, being the oldest, had the most time to actually get to know and love the real Garon. Probably a large part of where his love for his family comes from is the time he spent with his real father as a child. Xander is in denial, still hoping that one day, Garon will be back to his old self. He is loyal to a version of Garon that we never see, a version that he refuses to believe is gone, a version that he believes needs the most help out of anyone in his family.. He displays the first three stages of grief over Garon's transformation: 1. Denial - Already explained above 2. Anger - Your video shows plenty of this 3. Bargaining - I think at some point, Xander says that if he can just get Garon what he really wants, maybe he'll go back to being his old self Due to the burdens of being the crown prince and a responsible older brother, he refuses to allow himself to enter the depression stage, because that would require the others to support him rather than the other way around. So he's stuck in the first three stages, always at least two steps away from acceptance. When he argues with Garon, as his support conversations mention, it's because he wants his loving father back. He can't understand why Garon changed, nor that he can't be changed back. He knows that the orders Garon gives are wrong, but he still loves the real Garon. And he rationalizes his own actions to himself by telling himself that it's all for the good of his country. In Conquest, he has nothing but love and loyalty for Corrin...until she threatens Garon. In the other two paths, there's a part of him that knows what he's doing is wrong, but he just can't bring himself to directly oppose Garon because he used to be a loving father. In Birthright, it takes him being mortally wounded to even admit it to himself. And in Revelation, it takes Garon actually directly telling Xander to destroy Nohr for him to realize he's beyond saving. Even then, after he's joined with Corrin, his other siblings, and the Hoshidans, Garon's sudden death at Anankos' hands still grieves him deeply. I will not defend FE Heroes Xander, though. That shit's just dumb.
I think Xander should have gotten more screentime in birthright wherein his internal dialogue could be shown as to how he percieve's Corrin's turning away, and how it affects him. Same for Ryoma in conquest.
Oh, so Xander in Birthright is just Takumi in Conquest. Yep I have no reason to play Birthright. Anywho, this video is incredible. I never noticed some of the things you pointed out like Camilla's supports (I didn't get them on my first playthrough)
The only thing that would make sense of story-Xander's actions would be if he was under Anankos's influence, at least to a certain degree, only to be finally freed at his death by Corrin's hand. In fact, that would make a lot of sense: throwing himself at Corrin partly because of Anankos's influence, but also out of fear of losing control to Anankos and seeing death as the only way of escape. Of course, that would only explain the Birthright route's issues. And honestly, even then it might still be a bit lazy to write his part of the story that way.
SusanSnapDragon That would actually work. Takumi was under Anankos' influence the entire time in conquest so it wouldn't change the lore much except that Xander would have weak mental fortitude which he might as well have.
There was a fanfic in which Corrin was captured by Leo and Camilla when the avatar chose Hoshido. And Xander's actuation is just brilliant in the story.
i am honestly so blown away by this video because i've never actually heard anyone understand xander in this way i have had many of the same understandings of xander as you mention here, and it was an absolute joy to hear you lay this out in such an articulate manner xander is literally the reason why i picked conquest, and his supports never disappointed
Xander is probably my favorite character from Fates, which is humorous to me because I am also the eldest brother of three younger half siblings and one who I don't share any blood with. Coincidence? Probably!
I'm not sure Ghast gets Xander's last actions in the end of birthright the whole last fight with him is a complete suicide by cop. He's so sick of his own bullshit he wants to die so he uses Corrin to do it.
I think a better ending for him could have been fighting alongside Corrin after hearing Elise’s words, realizing his mistake, and dying by Garon in the final battle.
Great video, all around! This, as well as Azura, are the two examples of characters having a complete, indefensible dichotomy between Story and Supports in FE14. Though, while I understand it wasn't the central concept of the video, nor the point you were trying to make, but I was hoping for a mention of Xander and Beruka's supports. They're just my favorite of his romantic support lines, both due to the genuine emotional sentiment behind them and how silly, but still poignant it is for Beruka to make sure he promises to try to kill her if she tries to kill him before marrying.
I'm going to go with an unpopular opinion that actually Xander DOES have a reason to act VERY defensive to Garon. See, as the eldest sibling, Xander was there to witness a time that Garon was actually a stern, but overall decent and doting father, and having enough maturity to know about that part of Garon. But then tragedy happened between the whole Nohr family that it took toll on Garon that he was never the same again, starting to get abusive, and only got worse when he died in secret and got replaced by Anankos' familiar. There is no way that Xander would know this, but deep down, he'd still have trouble accepting that the kind father he used to know was gone, maybe if they conquered Hoshido, he would return to the old Garon. Signs of abuse, really, but I can't just blame him for wanting the kind father back. But I can understand why people would think that Xander was blindsided with the current Garon, because that is another part of Fates' writing: They used 'Tell, not show' on 'Good' Garon, and usually fandom are not that keen to believe on the tiny bits, only believing what's shown. Most of the complains on Xander seems to stem on "How dare he be blinded with the Obviously Evil Garon as WE AUDIENCE ALL SEE." I don't. I think of him as at least decent. Sometimes, heavy stress, especially from betrayal, can make people go really mad.
It's as if the main story and supports in general were written by completely different people, as if those two people never talked to each other or reviewed each other's work. Its baffling, the discrepancies.
@@hshot2000 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
while I agree there are many issues with story Xander. I believe the fact he needs to maintain the illusion that he is loyal and unwavering in his faith to Garon. Openly showing discontent with the actions of his king could jeopardize the stability of Nohr as a nation if others adopt a similar sentiment. While not excusing all the actions he made in the scenes you mentioned in the video, it does for some. The scene where Xander dismisses Garon's maniacal laughter as feeling unwell, is Xander not wanting Leo to begin to distrust Garon as well. He keeps that distrust to himself as he doesn't believe that sharing it will be for the betterment of his nation.
Ghast you should talk about the Xander from FE Heroes next. It's quite strange that he follows someone who seems evil. Or, maybe he sees the good in her? Maybe it shows he can see the good in all people? That would be very interesting to see you analyse.
He says Veronica reminds him of Corrin, and if you've played the Xenologue you see how she interacts with the masked man (as well as another important detail I won't write cause spoilers). There's probably more to it than that though, so it's definitely worth addressing.
We know what happens in the Xenologue but Xander doesn't. Every other appearance she makes, she's openly callous and threatening (not to mention enslaving heroes across the multiverse). So...it's actually very true to character that Xander would trust someone like that!
CopyRezo36 She's openly threatening and callous to those who oppose her or make it clear they don't want to serve her, which isn't the case for Xander. He says she reminds him of Corrin, so they must have interacted a bit outside of what we've seen, and he's probably treated the same way the Masked Man is.
He serves a woman who invades other worlds and magically enslaves their people. HIS world, the one that he defends to his death in Birthright, was also taken over. It's pretty farfetched that he'd be okay with that just because Veronica seems lonely. "The tyrant is only unreasonable if you don't want to be her slave soldier" is a pretty weak defense of Veronica's character.
This was an incredibly fair and wonderful character assessment. I'm very used to people either getting too acerbic out of frustration for the poor writing or scrambling over themselves to defend a game they enjoyed, but this video maintained really wonderful balance. Your thoroughness in going through all those supports and considering every perspective possible answered some questions I held about the game even months after playing. Thanks so much for this and your hard work!
I love Xander and Leo's support so much. As a guy with an extremely successful and skilled older brother, I could fully relate to Leo's problem and him accidentally snapping at Xander despite it being undeserved. I think I actually teared up a little bit at their A support, it was such a great way to show and solve the "middle child syndrome" that me and so many others have felt with.
Same, I got it purely by accident but seeing Leo talk to Xander reminded me a lot of my sister as well. It's rare to see a relationship where one sibling thinks the other is outshining them but doesn't resent them for it.
One particular thing that disgusted me about story Xander is that his selfishness that ultimately led to his end also led to Laslow's unnecessary death. Don't know if you'll mention this in the second part, but it's so sad to see how Laslow would die to the hands of the person he was supposed to help in his mission because of this dumb character. Note that I didn't talk about Peri.
Sometimes I feel like the general writing guidelines for Fates at the end of the day boiled down to, "Okay, this is nice and all, but Nohr are still the bad guys so let's make sure they still perpetuate villainy, even if it's through negligence and stupidity."
The issues here is the plot being a resource war. Your nation needs to invade to survive. Theirs want to fight to maintain wealth. Look at the differences in how the maps and Nohr themed things look. It's dying and decaying. Its people are starving. The king is evil, but believing that a nation invading due to starvation after attempting to trade and being denied solely because it would "change Houshio" is bad. They should have put in something alone the lines of betraying the king of ones people is the same as betraying ones country. But he calls the war needless. Its lazy.
You can’t just hit me with Elise’s death scene like that. I know that Fates doesn’t have the strongest writing, but that was one of the saddest moments in my playthrough
If I were to rewrite Xander's Chapter while keeping the context of having to defeat Xander to move on, it would go like this. After Elise says her piece, instead of calling her naive, Xander merely gives a sad laugh and says something along the lines of, "You were always the bright light in the darkness of Nohr; however, what Nohr needs now isn't its light. What it needs now is the defeat of those who threaten it." He turns to the party. "I'll give you all a choice, surrender and live or fight and die." Corrin tells him that "The only way for the conflict to end is for Garon to die, so while I don't want to fight you, I won't surrender either." The scene where Xander kills Elise plays the same way it does in vanilla. Xander still insists on fighting afterwards, commenting that Elise made the right request to the wrong person, and asks Corrin to fight him in a duel. Since Corrin is too distraught to even comment on anything, Ryoma steps in and duels the Crown Prince in Corrin's place. After the fight, Corrin collects himself and tells Xander that it didn't have to end like it did. Xander says, "Indeed, however I'll tell you why it did. My only concern is the greater good of Nohr, so after hearing of your progress from Leo and thinking back on Garon's previous actions, I figured that it was for the best that you kill Father. That is why I was so confrontational, so I can test your skills. If you were strong enough to best me, you would be strong enough beat father. I didn't mean to get Elise involved, and the fact that I did is my only regret beyond being unable to see a Nohr clean of blood. Now go, chosen of the Yato. Go and defeat father."
I feel like now in this retrospect, supports should be made before the actual story so that they can tie together more organically. If that doesn't happen, then the characters could contradict each other. I was working on developing my Fan!Corrins so they can be less-Fan!Corrin-y and I like watching these videos to give the characters more depth. At the same time though, this Xander video made me like Fates even less now because his actions show how much I think certain situations can be resolved much better.
Story Xander is precisely the reason why you should never, ever, make a character act according to the story rather than their own personality. Don't make someone hold the conflict ball just because you need a reason for a tragic battle. You will not make your audience feel sad. You will make them frustrated over a stupid and pointless battle that didn't need to happen.
Veronica supports support one: Xander:Veronica how was your day Veronica:I tried to kill those orders of heroes but they wouldn't die Xander:Veronica this usaully isn't you Veronica:Oh sorry Xander I'm fine Xander:Your being controlled by some one a think Veronica: I'm fine wanna have a tea party? Xander:Fine.... (Something is up with her)
Honestly, I am not gonna blame the writers on this one I'm gonna blame the fact that they were probably forced to make the routes this way. Only nohrians in conquest, only hosidans in birthright. I can imagine them asking the higher ups if you could recruit the nohrians siblings in conquest, and some higher up going "But if they got the nohrians in birthright, they might not buy conquest!" I'm not saying that the writers are perfect, nor am I saying that I know the development process of this game, but that is what I get from this. all these supports are way too good for the story that got created, so I'm hesitant to believe that the writers are inept.
Isaac Steele I meant more in the sense of trying to explain a good reason for why something ended up the way it did instead of just suggesting incompetence.
Except you actually get both Hoshidans and Nohrians in both birthright and conquest. They aren't 100% Nohr for conquest or 100% Hoshidan for Birthright
Xander: "Tell me what is on your mind Leo. I will listen to you, you know." Leo: "I think our father is fucking nuts. That's kind of obvious." Xander: "STFU Leo, you don't know what you are talking about!" Leo: "Kay, srry..."
I actually really like the idea of Xander killing Elise by accident. But the execution (no pun intended) just isn't there. I think an interesting and more believable scenario would be if Garron killed Elise instead. After all, Elise said she was going to try reasoning with him, and that was destined for failure from the start. Imagine what kind of situation that would put Xander in. He could turn on his Father when Corrin was in a pinch, sacrificing himself in the process, but creating an open for Corrin. I think that no matter how the story is told, it's important that two Royal sibilings die as a consequence of the campaign you chose ( aside from Revalation) and the sibilings they chose for each game made perfect sense, but even if the death of Elise was handled better, it wouldn't solve all the problems Xander has presented in all three campaigns. Which could be solved so easily if Garron were a more interesting villian who actually showed a decent side every once in a while.
Honestly the most upsetting part is Xander fans defending the end of Birthright by saying "Xander wanted Corrin to hate him so that he'd kill him!!! It was out of guilt!!" Yeah, because that's so much better. "I refuse to admit I was wrong, wish for death, but am too much of a coward to end my own life (like Ryoma), so instead I'll force my younger sibling to do it. That way they'll have to vear guilt over both Elise *and* my death!" How selfless of him.
I love this series and it really makes me think harder about characters that I normally wouldn't think twice about. I know these take quite a long time and I appreciate it. Thanks Ghast!
I'm really glad for this detailed breakdown of his character. It really redeems (support) Xander in my eyes. Also, well, it shows me how to write a character and how *not* to write a character.
It's important to remember that Xander in supports and Xander in game are literally different people. They're different versions of Xander depending on how circumstances play out. Support Xander is the side of him that accepts support from his siblings, braves the gulfs between them, and ultimately realizes that he isn't fighting for Nor, but for his family. Story Xander is the version that never overcomes those divides, who succumbs to the will of the father, and who hides from his responsibility until he no longer can. Both end up in the same place in the end, but the journey they take is different. The obvious parallel being takumi. But the game gets away with takumi by an explicit possession plot point. It's not unreasonable to say story Xander is the version who is under that same dark influence, while support Xander is the real person beneath all the duty and justice nonsense.
when I first saw the cutsene at 25:50 I took a moment to think, quit the chapter and made a forged swordcather named F*CKYOUXANDER Not even joking (and reclassed to great master)
I'm really looking forward to more of these. i've enjoyed all of these support science videos, and they make me enjoy analyzing a game more than any other I have played. I have enjoyed all of these and really hope this series grows.
Xander's death is so fucking stupid in BR. I'm convinced it was only done to mirror Ryoma's death in Conquest. He could have surrendered. Imagine how cool it would be to fight Garon with Xander back you up as a green unit.
Huh~ Arere, I was a bit intimidated by the length at first, but you went into some nice ground breaking details, good sir! I have a few thoughts to be made--but I'll wait till I see the second part to make sure they aren't already answered. Eehee.
The developers were really blinded by the bare-bones of this games story. Conquest might as well be named Fire Emblem: Contradiction or Fire Emblem: Contrived lol. I get it the basis of the story is really interesting, but I question just how hard the writers actually tried filling in the rest of the story or just how much they cared. I thought Conquest/Rev Ryoma was bad but Xander is the fucking champ of foolishness. And judging by how he was in Heroes, I truly think story Xander is the true Xander whereas Support Xander might as well be fucking Xane imitating and switching places with him for a laugh lol. Great vid Ghast can't wait for part 2!
the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
"No more lonely Nothern Fortress for you," I feel this line illustrates that Xander himself was Isolated, not by geography, but by his position in the social structure. Xander is a systems guy, and he keenly sees all the social and institutional structures around him. As such, he keenly sees the invisible barriers that separate him from those he loves(and those he loves less). Corrin is not as socially or politically perceptive, so he or she gets physically isolated from the realm at large for failing to know ones place. Xander knows his place well, so feels the same lonliness because he knows he's just as isolated.
It always felt weird when Xander didn’t listen to Elise’s dying wish, which was for them to stop fighting which he obviously didn’t do. I feel like it would’ve made more sense if he layed down his sword and joined the Hoshidans attack on Garon. And instead of being killed by Corrin, he protects Corrin from a dying blow from Garon and then Xander dies in Corrin’s arms. It would‘ve made his death much more noble and more fitting for his character. Plus, it would also make both of the older siblings death’s sacrifices. Ryoma killed himself so that Corrin didn’t have to, and Xander would’ve protected Corrin from a dying blow.
![Xander: Justice is a Convenience [2/2]. [Fire Emblem: Support Science #7]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VGGAEeNW1zM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Xander: Justice is a Convenience [2/2]. [Fire Emblem: Support Science #7]](/img/tr.png)
![NYX: an AMAZING character held back by Fates's bad habits. [Fire Emblem: Support Science #5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xh_ihGQizYc/mqdefault.jpg)
![Tharja: How Awakening Made a Good... Bad Character. [Fire Emblem: Support Science #14]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DGsK7bhfLrg/mqdefault.jpg)
Corrin: "I don't want to fight you."
Elise: "I don't want you to fight them."
Serena and Laslow: "We don't want you to fight them."
Camilla and Leo: "We don't want to fight you."
All of Nohr: "We don't want you to fight them."
All of Hoshido: "We don't want to fight you."
Xander himself: "I don't want to fight you."
Garon: "Fight them!"
Xander: "I'm fighting you."
LOL
Soupah Mario, Yes.
This is great man
Soupah Mario I love your icon super paper mario is my favorite game of all time
Soupah Mario it’s Selena lol not serena
I feel like the whole reason why Fates' story is such a mess is because they made Garon WAY too evil. If we actually got to see Garon have some benevolence or human decency, then not only would've made the initial choice seem less one-sided, but it would've given Xander a reason to stay beside Garon even if Corrin chooses Hoshido.
But what did they do? They made Garon Satan incarnate. He doesn't care about his children, hires serial killers as his retainers, and puts his own desires over his own people. He might as well kick puppies and eat orphaned babies while he's at it.
But that wasn't really Garon. It was the slime monster. Leo even mentions in a support how kind he once was.
If it was implied that he eats orphaned babies, that’d be messed up, but if Garon were to kick puppies, I’d beat the ever living shit out of him even though I know I’d get fucked up 😂 i’m sorry I just love dogs.
though the game never implies Garon eats orphans and kicks puppies... it never says he doesn't either. Considering the great nohrian food shortage of 918, it is very possible Garon did eat orphans. And considering the great shortage of sabaton kick testers in 919, he probably kicked puppies as well.
Not to mention that not only is Garon Satan but his children obey his absurd and immoral demands without a thought.
@@Elyseon Unless Corrin asks them to.
Xander/Mozu's A support is pretty adorable
"I'm not smiling. I'm just frowning less intensely."
puddmuddle Effie’s A support with Xander tho...
@@LFPman What's the matter with it?
@@Arkensius1157 to be honest, I don’t even know why I said that 4 years ago. Probably something to do with that analysis part in the video
I would say there are three Xanders: Support Xander, Story Xander, and Peri Xander
aka Cool Xander,Piece of Shit Xander and Hot Xander
Don't forget beach Xander (no homo).
She's crazy, but that busty model! She gives him everything he couldn't morally take from Camilla.
I like radomized Elise Xander :)
kristen brinn ...and heroes Xander...
"Leaving the kingdom in the hands of a megalomaniac. And Camilla."
I spat out my drink, I admit it.
Scanny524 kskdsks same
Scanny524 why is he supposed to be a megalomanic though?
Scanny524 my bad, i was just listening to it and thought he meant Leo. We wasn't he mentioning dear Leo though?
do ppl actually spit out their drinks? that sounds barbaric
O
Fates had to have had different writers, right? The Story and Support teams can't be the same people, I refuse to believe that with how much contradiction there is in the one game.
You got it right actually xD
Yeah, that's the only explanation I could come up with for why Story Xander and Support Xander contrast each other so much.
Yeah, almost all the supports were written by people with a past at IS i beleive, whereas the writer of the story was a mangaka
The mangaka only wrote out the outline. A 300 page outline, but an outline nonetheless. The final draft and story was ultimately up to IS. At least, that's what I've gathered from the sources I've read. There was also a lot of staff brought on for Fates but I don't know how much new blood was brought in for the storyboard.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious with how different they are.
Worst part about the birthright endgame thing is that it seems they did all that garbage because they REALLY wanted elise and xander to dramatically die, but for some reason figured this was the best way. But it was so god damn easy to have it actually make sense...
Sure, Xander could be Chapter 26's boss, you fight him, he is defeated but spared like Leo and Camilla, and perhaps with some swaying by Elise, agrees to go with them to the throne room and try to talk Garon into diplomacy.
Then we get to Chapter 27, and Garon can be all assholes while Xander points out they already pretty much lost this war, and that at this point they might as well try to strike a deal that might spare their people from unnecessary suffering. Then Garon could call him a worthless coward or whatever, and try to kill him. THEN Elise jumps in to save Xander and gets killed instead, and THEN Xander flips out over garon killing his own daughter and not even giving a shit, and despite having already been injured in the previous chapter and having everyone else tell him to not do anything rash, he goes in, calls Garon out on being a monster and how much he's sick of turning a blind eye to that because of duty or whatever and fights garon. But, ultimately, due to his aforementioned wounds and the fact that Garon is indeed pretty fucking strong, he ends up killing Xander, and cue the chapter itself.
And there you go. You get all of your dramatic deaths, and as a plus, Xander is not being a completely insane buffon on that situation. Instead he plays as a fairly understanding person trying to do what's best for his people. Even though he would be throwing his life away just the same, it's in a more believable way, what with it being a reaction to a loved one being killed in front of him. Hell, you could call it even courageous. Bonus points for Garon being the perpetrator as well as the boss of the chapter, so the player is extra-pissed off at him and REALLY wants to see the bastard drop dead.
The other instances where StoryXander is a fucking idiot would be even easier to fix, probably not requiring major changes besides the dialogue itself.
Phalconid They could make it like the Invisible warrior fight in the Prologue where Ryoma fights the Ganglari user, but due to his nature differing from Ryoma he would perish rather than flee. It would also show story telling through game play and he would die in the following cutscene.
He kind of did.
Remember, the point of that scene was to show how desperate and mentally disturbed the Nohrian Royals have become due to the war.
You hit the nail on the head. This scenario is so much better.
Phalconid I agree that yours is way better and definitely will give more shock aspect to Elise and Xander's deaths. Elise death in conquest is so forced it makes me think that Conquest is written first, bc Takumi and Ryoma's deaths really hit you, while Elise and Xander's death is like "hmm lets kill Elise bc she's adorable and have Xander accidently kills her and still wants to fight you even after his sister's last wish and force Corrin to kill him yup that will be a sad moment (which is not btw)"
Well shit you just fixed the story, I'm angry at the actual plot now. THIS WOULD'VE BEEN SO MUCH BETTER!
What I hate about Xander is how he doesn't realise that fighting for Nohr and fighting for Garon are two completely different things, and he becomes a hypocrite by ignoring his siblings yet following Garon.
The Camus archetype!
The worst thing about how Xander reacts in Birthright is the fact that in Conquest Ryoma doesn't act the same. In Conquest Ryoma continuously tries to get Corrin to return to Hoshido and never becomes completely hostile until he thinks Corrin killed Hinoka. Why is it that Ryoma is calmer and less hostile towards Corrin than Xander when Ryoma has more of a reason to be upset with Corrin choosing the opposite side.
+Conner Rose Because Xander wasn't truly upset at Corrin, he was just trying to get Corrin to kill him, Xander knew there was something wrong with Garon the whole time and to get Corrin to kill him he decided to just act like an asshole because Corrin wouldn't kill him otherwise, and Xander can't commit suicide like Ryoma since Xander is a kinght and a prince of Nohr so he needed a different way to kill himself since unassisted suicide would just look terrible for him and the kingdom, still this situation was handled poorly and out of character because Xander isn't the type of person to give up like that so it's just shitty writing, I can guarantee you that if they made it so that Ryoma lives in conquest they wouldn't have made Xander so contradictory to his actual character because they wouldn't have felt the need to give the avatar a reason to kill Xander since normally there would never be a reason to kill Xander unless he WAS out of character. Also in chapter 12 Ryoma definitely isn't all that hostile towards Corrin but is kinda going to extremes with the "join us or your little sister dies" approach, obviously i don't think Ryoma would ever do that and it was just the bad writing at play here like with Xander.
I like to believe that it's also to show the parallel between Nohr and Hoshido, Xander being the more violent and blunt type to Corrin since that's the potrayal that is shown in that route and Ryoma being more passive until action is needed... it's still absolute bullshit tho lmao
to be honest, i thought the reason was if corrin came back after siding with hoshido she would have been killed anyway.
The more I read people's observations, the more I become upset by the storytelling... Damn, you're right!
Ryoma never gets violent? Like when he BEATS you when you decide to stay in Nohr or when he threatens to let Elise die just to get Corrin back?
I think the reason Xander is set up like this is because the fates writers realized that if someone like Xander(support) existed in the main story, then there would be no reason for there to be a split in paths and the game would be over in an hour.
You're right and it's insane. Xander alone destroyed the plot of Fates. Or Garon. Either of them being good characters could have saved this game.
@@Plasticsoldier64 There should have just been one linear straightforward narrative. Ideally the Conquest version of the story (with some rewrites) should have been the sole canonical path, with the Birthright and Revelations path scrapped entirely.
"As the crowned prince of Nohr, I don't have the luxury of being naive.
I need to be 50X EVEN MORE NAIVE."
Can this be? The legendary Super Naive Idiot?
It would've been smarter if Xander said Elise's attempts to talk him out won't sway him, as he knows this is her quality. But remarks she made a respectable effort.
@@Mashichu_Kunrin the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
@@orangeslash1667 s t f u with that copypaste
Anankos worst character in fire emblem confirmed? Let me list what exactly Anankos as well as Valla did:
-Made the plot have a simple solution and removed any sense of a grey area. Also made any path seem invalid as there was an actually good solution.
-Ruined Xander, Azura and Corrin as characters.
-Made Garon a simple and purely evil villain that nobody should ever have followed after Anankos had possessed him.
Andrew Barshtein He just wanted to be Gharnef, and Garon just wanted to be Hardin. The difference? You actually SEE Hardin being a good guy, for an entire game!
Andrew Barshtein He also gathered his Grandchildren and their friends from *2 seperate dimensions* in one place to emotionally torment them for his amusement and desire to die only to make them forget the entire event.
Sadly Hardin is almost irrelevent with Shadow Dragon's main plot, he showed up in one chapter and then pretty much non-exist.
There needed to be an excuse for
1. Nohr and Hoshido to become allies
2. explain how the Awakening trio came to Nohr
3. (and most importantly) not make the player feel bad for wanting to marry Corrin to their siblings
Valla could have been very interesting like Hoshido and Nohr, but shoving the awareness of its existence into one path really hindered that. And a little off-topic, but as a Vallite herself, I was surprised and disappointed that Lilith didn't have a greater role in the story besides being the castle-keeper, and emotion fodder when she dies.
Lilith getting shafted (even more than BR and CQ, wherein she still gets just a hamfisted Heroic Sacrifice) is only the start of REV's problems. The whole game really needed more time to gestate and develop, not be released as quickly as it was - maybe then, people would have started to see the corresponding issues between character vs. story and course-correct it over time.
A rewrite/rerelease would be nice, but it would most definitely emerge as a different product altogether... similarities, but very different. If only someone on the narrative's writing team (and in the case of characters like Peri, the Support writing team) had put some actual effort into things instead of a bare-bones skeleton like we got.
His Nyx supports are exceptionally amazing. Xander deserved to be in a better written game.
They should make Xander, Kagero and Jakob come back in the next "new" FE game. You may not agree but it'd be *godly*.
TorgorXtreme, Omega you mean Xander, Takumi & Kagero, cause those are the best fates characters
Kagero? I don't really see the appeal. I read all of her Birthright supports, and while they're good, I enjoy someone like Oboro better.
Xander in the same tier and Kagero and Takumi. Pfft. Most like the former for her chest.
Kagero? Unless i missed a Support i feel like she is one of the less well written charterers its i Ninja or creepy art with her it seems
Fates's story just crashed Xander's mind
MasterEnex oh hey, i didnt expect to see you here 😂
Xander.exe has stopped working. Please reboot.
Please uninstall.
I think it would've been much better if Xander honored Elise's dying wish and layed down his sword, only to be subsequently murdered by Garon in a surprise attack. Be it in the very same room, or joining Corrin and the Hoshidan forces and confronting Garon himself in the throne room.
I would have liked something similar to what happened with Eldigan. Xander defies Garon, resulting in his own death.
CatManThree goes meow That would work a lot better since Xander is more Eldigan sub-archtype than Camus archtype.
Agreed. It would have really hit things home.
@@axolotlsgonewild having his youngest sister die by his own hand and agreeing to stop the fighting only to have been killed by the monster who started all of the bloodshed would have been gut wrenching
oh my god that would’ve been perfect, i cried at him dying in the game after not laying down his sword, that would’ve destroyed me
As expected, this was a brilliant episode. I've never even realised how hypocritical Story Xander is. It's such a shame that the story writers ruined such a well written character. It's quite sad to be honest... Oh well, I'm really looking forward to the next one, keep it up man!
I may be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that the people who wrote the story didn't write the supports, so maybe that is why.
Bad_at_names that would make a lot of sense.
Do you think that Xander would be a good character, even if his dedication toward Ganon remained?
Chloe Shand maybe, but as long as it had a limit to how far he would go.
Like I said in my earlier comments, Xander's dedication to Garon would be highly interesting-as seeing characters perform mental gymnastics to try and justify their like of someone who is clearly horrible, or rationalize their suffering is a great way to give depth. However, this would only work if Garon well written.
Tbh, I once read a Visual Novel that did Xander's character better than Fates and it was focused on bullying of all things.
I actually would have liked Xander's relationship with Ganon if it was done better.
Seeing characters rationalize fucked up situations because they can't deal with the reality of it, is always going to be insanely interesting.
WOAH Ganon is in this game?! Where?! I didn't know there was a Zelda cameo in fates!
I mean wasnt the joke is garon is ganon or something like that im not fan of zelda enough to know but they both comically evil....Nah is best awakening child
Welp i will nvr got bored of that
Garondorf
@@michaelmagnimedia3331 ganonforf is waaay better than garon, garon is just bland, ganon makes some pretty interesting points that actually make sense in wind waker
I thought the reason story Xander existed was obvious: It's to not make the player feel bad about their option. It's the same reason Hoshido, a peaceful nation that had a barrier that caused people not to want to fight, suddenly turns awful; heaven forbid you have to think about your decisions in the game.
And why would you regret your decision to pick a path? Obviously no matter what choice you choose you're going to stomp over someone's feelings. So it's kinda stupid to have a person behave like a dunce just because of Corrin's decision? It makes the characters far less believable. Even worse, is that Corrin only shows this sentiment in Conquest and no other path which makes such a thought even more ineffective. Your character doesn't care, why should we, the audience find more investment into a world than the characters?
The issue with Xander is that he's really inconsistent. The story has him as irrational, vindictive, and conveniently thoughtful (thanks for sending Elise and friends in Chapter 7 man!), cowardly, or even stupid and while multiple emotions are indicative of a person being decidedly human, the issue is that his own behavior contradicts and harms potentially himself as well. Getting angry at Corrin for leaving Nohr? Sure. But then immediately telling him/her to come back after you just beat the tar out of them? Like... What's even happening here? This isn't even two different scenes, it's the same scene! There's no excuse for that nonsense.
Support Xander on the other hand.. Has none of these problems (outside of Peri). I can understand Xander not wanting to kill his father, this makes sense, and it works from a plot perspective-- however, it DOES NOT work from a support perspective at all. This is the biggest issue with Xander, is that his supports directly contradict how he behaves in the story. Leading to a muddled mess of a character. And this isn't even just a problem with Xander, we have great characters like the Awakening Trio, Azura, or even Corrin him/herself to demonstrate this as well.
One of the reasons why I will never touch Fates is because I hate both sides. They're all morons.
@@Elyseon the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
I really like Camus.
Mangs new sumaC Battle History video from Living Movement.
The only good Camus is Grust's Camus, because he lives on to become Zeke and later Sirius.
Suikoden II's Camus is awesome too :/
Mangs Wait I though you hated the Camus arctype
Camoo
Honestly it's characters like this that make me believe that the writing team for the story and supports were two completely different teams with little communication between the two
Well, that's because it's true
Mario Tomic It actually was two different teams for story writing and support writing, believe it or not
Mario Tomic Source?
@@emblemblade9245 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
Support Xander is what i want to be as an older brother and as a person
Story Xander is stupid
They shouldn't have separate writers for supports and story they should be the same
In Birthright chapter 26. I think that instead of being an idiot and fighting you, Xamder should join you and be either a green unit or an unplayable character like Elise, and fight some of Garon's forces that stupidly belive him, and also Xander's retainers because they don't know what's really happening. the Chapter's objective would be to keep him alive if he were a green unit ( which wouldn't be that hard because Xander would probably beat the crap outta everyone) or to talk/kill his retainers, like BR Chapter 23, that would be cool because then we would be able to spare Laslow ( one of Fates' best Non-Royal Characters and one of Awakening's best children) and Kill Peri.
"But if Xander doesn't die, how are we supposed to have a similarity to Conquest when Ryoma kills himself?"
Well, Xander shouldn't die by Corn to make it more emotional, Xander should've died in a CGI Scene where he defies Garon. That would be pretty cool
But those were just my ideas.
If Xander had to die they could have made it that he tried to take on garon himself before corrin's army show up to help and was badly wounded in the process though still insists on fighting. Then after the battle he gives into his injuries.
I would have done that too. I believe that a knight or prince or really anyone should die fighting for what they believe in. How could he not have known Garon was so awful and that he should break away from him? If Garon was a bit less one dimensional, I would understand if he kept following him.
that would’ve emotionally destroyed me for weeks, i love it
I'm playing Revelation currently and I just can't shake the memory of that one scene where Xander and Leo are talking and Garon is just standing there ranting to the ceiling and Xander is like "this is probably fine"
Best character is Daikon Radish, Ghast be serious for once.
Carp streamer tho.
Inigo Fuck you man. You enable this ass of a prince called Xander.
Rudolph Consuegra You're right. Inigo has been constantly whispering into Ghast's ear at night to use the radish and it's getting creepy and out of hand. You shouldn't call Ghast an ass though that's not very nice.
Rudolph Consuegra Ill give a serious comment on part two of this Support Science if that makes you feel better.
That was directed towards Xander, not Ghast. Should have cleared it up.
I think that, that is the problem with supports like these that we see in the latest two games. The supports feel like a different universe than the game. Some are bad, some are good, but in both games they have no effect in the game. Supports should complement the game, not be some fluff on the side. I hope that moving forward supports are taken into consideration for the story from the beginning and hopefully we could get a better flow between supports and story.
Yaoifanboy Once upon a time in a game called Fire Emblem Rekka no Ken, there were supports that related to the past chapter(s). Though, it was only later characters that displayed this.
Xander's dedication to his father was one of the most infuriating things in the entire game and made me hate his character.
It's not just that by itself, it's that outside of revelations he makes no action to question or do anything about the obviously erratic actions of Garon.
It's not that he's a Camus character, though. It's that he's an extremely inconsistently-written character, Camus or not.
I mean, like the video brought up, he's shown that he's not 100% slavishly dedicated to his father in his support with Corrin, enough that he claims to be able to stand up to some of his crazier orders/decisions...but he never does in the actual story.
Yeah, I absolutely despised Xander in Birthright and lead me to not really enjoying him in the other routes either. Like said before, Xander is too determined to follow his father, which leads to his downfall in Birthright and I absolutely hate him for that. I really started to dislike him when he killed Elise. Not that he killed Elise, but how he treats her wish. He completely disregards it and FORCES Corrin to fight him, even when Corrin brought up Elise's wish. This scene also made me lose respect for Corrin, as he hardly tries to stop Xander. He just goes in and fights and it really disgusts me on both sides.
MatthewStar Gaming I don't blame than on corrin though. I mean, if you're being attacked by one of the best Knights in that world, I don't think you have any other choice that to fight. Corrin at least realized that if Xander was going keep fighting, he had an army to lead and therefore had virtually no choice in whether to fight or not.
Xander is literally Eldigan levels of stupid
Every of Xanders support is good indeed...except with Perry
And if Xander really love Corrin so much, than Birthright wouldn't exist, because Xander, Leo and Camilla would rush trough the hoshidan nobels, take Corrin and head back to Nohr. No bad writing or plot holes whatsoever
Every Peri support is shit
Peri is a crappy character in general
Xander should have been the Main Lord of Fates. I still love all 3 games but Xander is just something else and deserved more importance and influence in the story.
I believe they made Conquest's and Birthright's endings unsatisfying and dumb just so people would buy the other story route just to see what happens.
It's just greed ruining the story, really.
Trish Rowdy it's smart and fuk up at the same time
I just hope they get better writers for Echoes, the characters look very interesting.
SquidHub Central Considering Echoes is a reimagining of Gaiden, it'll be fine.
I don't really like Xander and I love Ryoma, but I feel like their relationship to one another to be surprisingly well written. They are alike in the wrong ways and opposite in every other. In their a support they aren't friends, but they respect each other. Ryoma is designed around ideal Chivalry and is more the Camus archtype (loyalty to motherland). Xander is designed around Bushido and is more the Eldigan sub-archtype(loyalty to king). It's most obvious in their deaths. Visually Xander dies the death of Chivalry and Ryoma Bushido, but the intention is reverse. Xander essentially commits suicide to regain the honor lost as atonement for harming his family much like seppuku. Ryoma sacrifices himself to save the life of someone who wronged him, faking the action of Bushido while more accurately following the western belief of immitatio Christi (imitation of Christ ie to sacrifice your life for the salvation of another). It is because of this that Xander cannot question Garon, a samurai *cannot* question their elder. Their ability even reflects this. Xander's skill demands an opponent be at top fighting strength as per an ideal Bushido duel. Ryoma's Bushido revolves around protecting the weak, a trait of idea chivalry.
What do you think Ghast? I'd value your opinion.
You do know that Xander stays loyal to the king solely for the fact that he felt that he had to for his people and his country right? he didn't die for honor he died because he thought he didn't have a choice and that revolting against the king would look like betraying his own country from an outside perspective, he would rather die over the thought of his country falling apart due to his actions so he just paints himself as a villain for Corrin because the writers didn't know how to handle the situation.
Crouching Tiger Hidden Jew Yes but that still doesn't discount my point. Eastern thought is about collectivism and in Bushido you can only redeem yourself in death. Because of this Xander believes that he needs to die. Western culture is more individualistic and western and redemption is influenced by the notion of redemption through Christ. Ryoma sacrifices himself to save an individual he believes will right wrongs and deserves a second chance. Does that make more sense?
@JAMS Dream I beleive that's intentional. I mean their Personal skills are even called Bushido and Chivalry on Ryoma and Xander respectively.
Ryoma's Bushido is about protecting the weak (Ryoma gets a boost when paired with a lower level unit) which his what a knight's oath represents.
Meanwhile Xander's Chivalry gives him a boost when his opponents is at full HP which is a foreign concept to European duels which proposed god selected the just winner and thus your health was of no consequence vs Japanese duels which were more about proving strength and thus it was preferable that both combatants be in fighting condition.
I also think Ryoma's underhanded tactics (such as stealing Elise's medicine and having both retainers be spies) play into this. Similar to how Nobunaga Oda is infamous in japan as being a samurai who used trickery. Nobunaga Oda is also known to have followed western tradition and had both fire arms and a western styled breastplate. He wad criticized for supporting open debate between Christians and Buddhists rather than maintaining rules that forbid the former to express their beliefs. There are a bunch of other little details that make me beleive he's based more on western knights or at least is a more western styles Samurai like Nobunaga, but some of those could just be idealized views of a ruler in general. Their pref skills and deaths are the most compelling arguments imo.
This video is the absolute pinnacle of observing Fates and its writing/characters. Some of the supports in Fates are really well done, and they show off good sides of all the characters, giving them backstories, motivations, and doubts. But the stories of all three paths contradict everything that the supports tell you about them. What's most baffling is that how Fates focuses purely on Corrin, Azura, and the royals of your chosen side, yet they could not make Xander consistent.
The one character I believe feels like a proper character is Saizo; he's relevant no matter what side you pick, has a backstory that is brought up no matter the path, and his supports with both Ryoma and Kaze show off how dedicated he is to his heritage. He's a well written character - barring his C with Beruka - but because he is not royal he gets cast aside once his chapter is done. It perfectly brings up my problem with Fates and its characters; they all had so much potential but nothing was done for them.
That is the downside of having a permadeath mechanic : since the character may die before you even reach the chapter centered around them, you can only focus on them in the level they’re introduced in.
So, most characters are well written, but the story is just trash lol.
That's about it, yeah
Bluebo'x'Kirby peri isnt
Apollo Justice
"Most"
Why is Orochi bad?
Bluebo'x'Kirby no one said most why the quotes
Hey, don't group poor Orochi with Peri. She deserves better.
I think the writers are trying to alienate normal Xander's established personalty just so he can seem more antagonistic for Hosido's Story but yeah that's some pretty nasty bullshit going on.
It could be argued that he's this way in birthright due to grief that Corrin has turned against Nohr and because of this he's clearly not thinking straight, but it goes too far. There still has to be something to like about him.
@@Superluigi881 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
when I heard real siblings I could only think, (spoilers)
"Lilith? You mean only lilith?"
Thanks a ton for watching and stuff. :)
Ghast Station no problem.
Keep making these videos and maybe I'll buy you something nice.
Thank YOU for making these videos! Your support science series is what brought me to your channel, and your randomized Conquest let's play convinced me to stay. Really enjoying everything here, so thanks! :D
These are actually getting more refined by the minute. I'm really liking these.
Ghast Station 31:51 he wants higher star value and it is probably phoenix mode
Ghast
There are a few excuses for Xander's behavior in several situations that aren't considered, however.
In chapter 2, when Xander attacks Corrin to get to the prisoners, it's right after Garon made one prisoner's head explode and Corrin was getting in the way. Garon absolutely would have killed Corrin if Xander had not stepped up and basically said he'd do it for Garon and then made attacks that wouldn't actually kill Corrin. He didn't really have a good plan, and Leo saved his bacon, but that's at least partly excusable by being forced to rush in half-cocked with no real plan.
When excusing Garon's madness as being "under the weather", keep in mind that they're also in public at the moment. He's stopping Leo from publicly questioning the king's sanity, which could potentially be grounds for a claim of treason if, to use a Japanese expression, the walls have ears and the doors have eyes.
Xander is basically trying to manage a raging omnicidal lunatic backed up by cackling jackals in the form of Hans and Iago that will take any chance to turn the king against his siblings, so he's basically just trying to be a buffer. Hence, he can be human in private, but acts like a door post that repeats the party line in public. That's also why he can't publicly acknowledge Garon's obvious lunacy when confronted with concrete evidence of it, at least until he's actually ready to fully break against Garon.
By the end of Birthright, he's fully committed to the villainous side to the point of breaking ties with his family to do it... but did you notice what happened to Takumi in Conquest? Especially considering his turnaround after death, it's entirely possible that the same insanity field sent out by Anankos was corrupting Xander.
It can't excuse everything, but it does at least mitigate some of the problems Story Xander has.
Hell yeah, another Support Science! I haven't even watched it but I know it's going to be good.
40 minutes...? 😵
actually its 39:49
+Shadow Striker 39:44
+Shadow Striker 39:34
Shadow Striker haha, close enough though.
I think what the writers intended with Elise's death was sorrowness, hopelessness and suicide wishes in Xander. They wanted him to feel like a cornered Lion extending his fangs, and the moment he slays his little sister he was supposed to be suicidal and regretful. He killed Elise, and as such wanted to die himself to make the suffering and the regret end. He was supposed to feel like a nihilist that gave up on life and just wanted to die, so he drew his sword for a final duel. He didn't convey his feelings properly in any of these scenes and it made him feel like a douchebag jerk that just wanted to attack them.
But if we take things from a different perspective, Xander's final chapter might not be his weakest, but his strongest. Why? Because all the other moments you have with Xander are what brought him into this shitty situation. All the horrible writing errors there were in the few chapters you got to see him established that he is a blind and ignorant fool, and as far as I'm concerned, taking into consideration how many bad things happened to him while Corrin was captured by Hoshido, Xander's final reaction seems... believable? He was a man of his word, of his family, and wanted to be the guiding big brother for all of them. Suddenly some tanned woman and a green haired Ninja pull him out of his home and territory and his loved family member just speaks up to him in a manner so disrespectful and unexpected that he feels reinforced in his behavior and that he is doing the right thing.
Over the course of the game, as Nohr also suffers under the war's conditions, (Namely that thanks to Corrin, Hoshido is mightily kicking their asses!) Xander starts to lose it. Elise continuously talks about peace and negotiating it, Camilla seems to lose her mind completely as well and Leo is his younger, less influential brother that he feels he has more authority over.
He has no reason to doubt his own intention, in fact he feels more confirmed in doing what he does because the rest of his family, despite all of his efforts to be a caring brother to them, turned on him and cornered him. Just like he said, he is the Crownprince of Nohr. He is the only one in the family who can't point his finger into the right direction, and his family doesn't want to understand that. They don't respect at all that he tried so hard to protect them and feels as if everyone turned against him out of the blue.
Because you aren't on Nohr's side this time, Nohr feels less unjust in how they act. Xander isn't a subject to Hans' moral dilemma, Xander isn't there to see the civillians of Cheve being turned into Ashes, and he especially isn't there to see Garon snap. In Conquest, Garon completely loses his mind as Corrin returns and subjects her to the worst possible jobs to break her mentally and progressively becomes insane as he fails to do so. This gives Xander a view, an insight on Garon's corrupted mind. In Birthright however, none of this happens. Cherche isn't burned down, Hoshido infiltrates Cherche using Scarlet and Hans' is designated into completely different areas, none of them mentioned. For all we know, not even Hans might be killing civilians on Nohr's side. He's no longer ordered to do so to break Corrin's sanity, so Garon could easily have deported him to do dirty jobs like taking down smaller Hoshidan armies. The next time we get to see Hans, he trains the royal guards.
All of this coming together makes Xander's final acts seem realistic. He is a cornered man that feels as if the world turned against him, and while on the outside he seems to be this strong, opportunistic man, on the inside he is a crumbling little boy that hits a training dummy with a wooden sword to ventilate his frustrations. His facade breaks when Elise chooses to ultimately betray him in the worst possible way, by forcing him to lay down his sword by getting her killed.
All of this comes together to one final act of self-loathing and depression. Xander felt betrayed by everyone, both Corrin and then his siblings, which resulted in him drawing his sword to force Corrin to end his life. Xander knew he couldn't win, Corrin confirms this by saying he held back. All he wanted was his sister/brother to end his miserable, loyal Nohrian life of betrayal and depression.
I agree with most of your points, but to call the final chapter of Xander the worst just isn't right in my opinion. Given what happened in Birthright and how poorly he was written in literally every single chapter, you can't blame him for doing the most optimal thing that the storywriters intended for him at that point. It's not his final scene, but the scenes before the final scene that led to this catastrophy and THAT is the real problem. Given what he was intended to do in his last moments, I think they nailed it 100%. The idea of making him turn out to be this shitty might be an 0/10, but I think his final moments were a 10/10 given what he had to work with, personality-wise and story-wise.
Also, and just as a little thing to throw in as a thinker:
Xander said he let his feelings decide, not his duty. You might THINK this means that Xander spared Corrin and let him/her end his life, but what if Xander doesn't talk about letting Corrin win? What if theoretically, Xander talks about his decision to duel Corrin to begin with?
He had the duty to drop his sword for the good of his people. For the good of Nohr.
But he listened to his enraged and depressed feelings, attacking Corrin to find the embrace of death.
It could quite literally be a completely reversed scenario.
Don’t agree but I have to admire that effort
@@capadociaash8003 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
@@orangeslash1667 oh god your pathetic, u look like a bot
Why did Fates' story need to suck so much...
So much lost potential, it's depressing.
Oh well, Shadows of Valentia should be a step up!
...right?
We can only hope, RIGHT?....
*Cries in a corner*
well, it appears that this game had two different teams developing it and revelations script was outsourced. the youtube channel Chronicles goes more into the development of fates.
Valentia seems to be a better version of Fates
Jacob Calderbank Gaiden didn't really have a memorable story but it could change in echoes for sure
That's why I said Valentia and not Gaiden.
You make a lot of very good points here. One thing you don't mention, though-and how much of Xander's behavior this excuses, if any, is debatable-is that it's mentioned several times that before becoming a goo demon or a dark dragon, Garon used to be an affectionate father. Xander, being the oldest, had the most time to actually get to know and love the real Garon. Probably a large part of where his love for his family comes from is the time he spent with his real father as a child. Xander is in denial, still hoping that one day, Garon will be back to his old self. He is loyal to a version of Garon that we never see, a version that he refuses to believe is gone, a version that he believes needs the most help out of anyone in his family..
He displays the first three stages of grief over Garon's transformation:
1. Denial - Already explained above
2. Anger - Your video shows plenty of this
3. Bargaining - I think at some point, Xander says that if he can just get Garon what he really wants, maybe he'll go back to being his old self
Due to the burdens of being the crown prince and a responsible older brother, he refuses to allow himself to enter the depression stage, because that would require the others to support him rather than the other way around. So he's stuck in the first three stages, always at least two steps away from acceptance. When he argues with Garon, as his support conversations mention, it's because he wants his loving father back. He can't understand why Garon changed, nor that he can't be changed back. He knows that the orders Garon gives are wrong, but he still loves the real Garon. And he rationalizes his own actions to himself by telling himself that it's all for the good of his country.
In Conquest, he has nothing but love and loyalty for Corrin...until she threatens Garon. In the other two paths, there's a part of him that knows what he's doing is wrong, but he just can't bring himself to directly oppose Garon because he used to be a loving father. In Birthright, it takes him being mortally wounded to even admit it to himself. And in Revelation, it takes Garon actually directly telling Xander to destroy Nohr for him to realize he's beyond saving. Even then, after he's joined with Corrin, his other siblings, and the Hoshidans, Garon's sudden death at Anankos' hands still grieves him deeply.
I will not defend FE Heroes Xander, though. That shit's just dumb.
OrangeKyle91 iiijhhkjhh
I know this is a while ago but, what did they do too him in FE heros?
@@Blue-fg8vt They made him side with Veronica, the main villain of Book 1, for no good reason.
I think Xander should have gotten more screentime in birthright wherein his internal dialogue could be shown as to how he percieve's Corrin's turning away, and how it affects him. Same for Ryoma in conquest.
Oh, so Xander in Birthright is just Takumi in Conquest.
Yep I have no reason to play Birthright.
Anywho, this video is incredible. I never noticed some of the things you pointed out like Camilla's supports (I didn't get them on my first playthrough)
Xander is definitely one of my fave characters. I just skip all the cutscenes at this point. I can't bear to look at what they did to him
Same. I often use my own mental writing to replace most story dialogue anyhow.
The only thing that would make sense of story-Xander's actions would be if he was under Anankos's influence, at least to a certain degree, only to be finally freed at his death by Corrin's hand. In fact, that would make a lot of sense: throwing himself at Corrin partly because of Anankos's influence, but also out of fear of losing control to Anankos and seeing death as the only way of escape.
Of course, that would only explain the Birthright route's issues. And honestly, even then it might still be a bit lazy to write his part of the story that way.
SusanSnapDragon That would actually work. Takumi was under Anankos' influence the entire time in conquest so it wouldn't change the lore much except that Xander would have weak mental fortitude which he might as well have.
Possibly, his mental fortitude could have been weakened by what he perceived was Corrin's betrayal.
SusanSnapDragon That would be a good justification. The stress of putting duty over feeling.
There was a fanfic in which Corrin was captured by Leo and Camilla when the avatar chose Hoshido. And Xander's actuation is just brilliant in the story.
Link plz
I know it's been 4 years but I n e e d to know at least the title of this fic
Oh man just saw your comments, sorry you all. The name is Coming Home by The Loud Guy in fanfiction. Last time i checked it was discontinued
@@maria24471 Thank you so much!!
i am honestly so blown away by this video because i've never actually heard anyone understand xander in this way
i have had many of the same understandings of xander as you mention here, and it was an absolute joy to hear you lay this out in such an articulate manner
xander is literally the reason why i picked conquest, and his supports never disappointed
"Think Xander Think! How can you ensure the welfare of Nohr if you're dead?!"
Xander is probably my favorite character from Fates, which is humorous to me because I am also the eldest brother of three younger half siblings and one who I don't share any blood with.
Coincidence?
Probably!
Story Xander made me want to throw myself off the cliff with Takumi ._.
I'm not sure Ghast gets Xander's last actions in the end of birthright the whole last fight with him is a complete suicide by cop. He's so sick of his own bullshit he wants to die so he uses Corrin to do it.
Treize Khushrenada Exactly
Alice May Like Ryoma.
Maybe he wanted Corrin to kill him so he/she had to carry with the thought of it for the rest of his/her life
He brought that up though. He also said it was basically completely selfish and stupid and he had other options that were very clear.
That make Xander as a coward again. Because even at this very point. He still refuse to face his real duty but let himself be killed.
PART ONE?!
Oh this is going to be epic
I think a better ending for him could have been fighting alongside Corrin after hearing Elise’s words, realizing his mistake, and dying by Garon in the final battle.
Great video, all around! This, as well as Azura, are the two examples of characters having a complete, indefensible dichotomy between Story and Supports in FE14. Though, while I understand it wasn't the central concept of the video, nor the point you were trying to make, but I was hoping for a mention of Xander and Beruka's supports. They're just my favorite of his romantic support lines, both due to the genuine emotional sentiment behind them and how silly, but still poignant it is for Beruka to make sure he promises to try to kill her if she tries to kill him before marrying.
I'm going to go with an unpopular opinion that actually Xander DOES have a reason to act VERY defensive to Garon.
See, as the eldest sibling, Xander was there to witness a time that Garon was actually a stern, but overall decent and doting father, and having enough maturity to know about that part of Garon. But then tragedy happened between the whole Nohr family that it took toll on Garon that he was never the same again, starting to get abusive, and only got worse when he died in secret and got replaced by Anankos' familiar. There is no way that Xander would know this, but deep down, he'd still have trouble accepting that the kind father he used to know was gone, maybe if they conquered Hoshido, he would return to the old Garon. Signs of abuse, really, but I can't just blame him for wanting the kind father back.
But I can understand why people would think that Xander was blindsided with the current Garon, because that is another part of Fates' writing: They used 'Tell, not show' on 'Good' Garon, and usually fandom are not that keen to believe on the tiny bits, only believing what's shown.
Most of the complains on Xander seems to stem on "How dare he be blinded with the Obviously Evil Garon as WE AUDIENCE ALL SEE." I don't. I think of him as at least decent. Sometimes, heavy stress, especially from betrayal, can make people go really mad.
i think that is why lyon was so well received. we got to see how he used to be before he was introduced as the main antagonist (through flashbacks)
Except he canonically knows that something is wrong with Garon I would be willing to accept it if he didn’t ignore Elise dying wish
"Xander, father literally tried to bomb a town and kill me in the process"
"So what you're saying is.. You're a traitor"
It's as if the main story and supports in general were written by completely different people, as if those two people never talked to each other or reviewed each other's work. Its baffling, the discrepancies.
Cam M That's because they were.
Actually, Im watching a video on the development history right now. Seems kinda like a mess
@@hshot2000 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
while I agree there are many issues with story Xander. I believe the fact he needs to maintain the illusion that he is loyal and unwavering in his faith to Garon. Openly showing discontent with the actions of his king could jeopardize the stability of Nohr as a nation if others adopt a similar sentiment. While not excusing all the actions he made in the scenes you mentioned in the video, it does for some. The scene where Xander dismisses Garon's maniacal laughter as feeling unwell, is Xander not wanting Leo to begin to distrust Garon as well. He keeps that distrust to himself as he doesn't believe that sharing it will be for the betterment of his nation.
Ghast you should talk about the Xander from FE Heroes next. It's quite strange that he follows someone who seems evil. Or, maybe he sees the good in her? Maybe it shows he can see the good in all people? That would be very interesting to see you analyse.
He says Veronica reminds him of Corrin, and if you've played the Xenologue you see how she interacts with the masked man (as well as another important detail I won't write cause spoilers).
There's probably more to it than that though, so it's definitely worth addressing.
We know what happens in the Xenologue but Xander doesn't. Every other appearance she makes, she's openly callous and threatening (not to mention enslaving heroes across the multiverse). So...it's actually very true to character that Xander would trust someone like that!
Crown Prince Xander of Nohr In Heroes the characters are controlled by contracts or Being summondd I don't know
CopyRezo36 She's openly threatening and callous to those who oppose her or make it clear they don't want to serve her, which isn't the case for Xander. He says she reminds him of Corrin, so they must have interacted a bit outside of what we've seen, and he's probably treated the same way the Masked Man is.
He serves a woman who invades other worlds and magically enslaves their people. HIS world, the one that he defends to his death in Birthright, was also taken over. It's pretty farfetched that he'd be okay with that just because Veronica seems lonely. "The tyrant is only unreasonable if you don't want to be her slave soldier" is a pretty weak defense of Veronica's character.
40 minute support science? Ghast senpai spoils us today
favorite fates Character.
ZerkMonsterHunter 4 Same
ZerkMonsterHunter 4 I can tell
Obviously, that's why you colored over his portrait.
This was an incredibly fair and wonderful character assessment. I'm very used to people either getting too acerbic out of frustration for the poor writing or scrambling over themselves to defend a game they enjoyed, but this video maintained really wonderful balance. Your thoroughness in going through all those supports and considering every perspective possible answered some questions I held about the game even months after playing. Thanks so much for this and your hard work!
I love Xander and Leo's support so much. As a guy with an extremely successful and skilled older brother, I could fully relate to Leo's problem and him accidentally snapping at Xander despite it being undeserved. I think I actually teared up a little bit at their A support, it was such a great way to show and solve the "middle child syndrome" that me and so many others have felt with.
Same, I got it purely by accident but seeing Leo talk to Xander reminded me a lot of my sister as well. It's rare to see a relationship where one sibling thinks the other is outshining them but doesn't resent them for it.
"In the hands of a megalomaniac, and, *Camila*"
ROFLMAO XD
Ali BabaAhmed I screamed lmao
Support Xander = Tofu Rise
Story Xander = Risette
Yes. Just yes.
One particular thing that disgusted me about story Xander is that his selfishness that ultimately led to his end also led to Laslow's unnecessary death. Don't know if you'll mention this in the second part, but it's so sad to see how Laslow would die to the hands of the person he was supposed to help in his mission because of this dumb character.
Note that I didn't talk about Peri.
I like to forget story Xander doesn’t exist and just focus on support, hero and warrior Xander
Sometimes I feel like the general writing guidelines for Fates at the end of the day boiled down to, "Okay, this is nice and all, but Nohr are still the bad guys so let's make sure they still perpetuate villainy, even if it's through negligence and stupidity."
The issues here is the plot being a resource war. Your nation needs to invade to survive. Theirs want to fight to maintain wealth.
Look at the differences in how the maps and Nohr themed things look. It's dying and decaying. Its people are starving. The king is evil, but believing that a nation invading due to starvation after attempting to trade and being denied solely because it would "change Houshio" is bad. They should have put in something alone the lines of betraying the king of ones people is the same as betraying ones country. But he calls the war needless. Its lazy.
You can’t just hit me with Elise’s death scene like that. I know that Fates doesn’t have the strongest writing, but that was one of the saddest moments in my playthrough
If I were to rewrite Xander's Chapter while keeping the context of having to defeat Xander to move on, it would go like this.
After Elise says her piece, instead of calling her naive, Xander merely gives a sad laugh and says something along the lines of, "You were always the bright light in the darkness of Nohr; however, what Nohr needs now isn't its light. What it needs now is the defeat of those who threaten it." He turns to the party. "I'll give you all a choice, surrender and live or fight and die." Corrin tells him that "The only way for the conflict to end is for Garon to die, so while I don't want to fight you, I won't surrender either." The scene where Xander kills Elise plays the same way it does in vanilla. Xander still insists on fighting afterwards, commenting that Elise made the right request to the wrong person, and asks Corrin to fight him in a duel. Since Corrin is too distraught to even comment on anything, Ryoma steps in and duels the Crown Prince in Corrin's place.
After the fight, Corrin collects himself and tells Xander that it didn't have to end like it did. Xander says, "Indeed, however I'll tell you why it did. My only concern is the greater good of Nohr, so after hearing of your progress from Leo and thinking back on Garon's previous actions, I figured that it was for the best that you kill Father. That is why I was so confrontational, so I can test your skills. If you were strong enough to best me, you would be strong enough beat father. I didn't mean to get Elise involved, and the fact that I did is my only regret beyond being unable to see a Nohr clean of blood. Now go, chosen of the Yato. Go and defeat father."
I feel like now in this retrospect, supports should be made before the actual story so that they can tie together more organically. If that doesn't happen, then the characters could contradict each other. I was working on developing my Fan!Corrins so they can be less-Fan!Corrin-y and I like watching these videos to give the characters more depth. At the same time though, this Xander video made me like Fates even less now because his actions show how much I think certain situations can be resolved much better.
Story Xander is precisely the reason why you should never, ever, make a character act according to the story rather than their own personality. Don't make someone hold the conflict ball just because you need a reason for a tragic battle. You will not make your audience feel sad. You will make them frustrated over a stupid and pointless battle that didn't need to happen.
You realize Leo was talking shit about garon in like the same room right? There abusable daddy might have just killed leo.
Veronica supports
support one:
Xander:Veronica how was your day
Veronica:I tried to kill those orders of heroes but they wouldn't die
Xander:Veronica this usaully isn't you
Veronica:Oh sorry Xander I'm fine
Xander:Your being controlled by some one a think
Veronica: I'm fine wanna have a tea party?
Xander:Fine.... (Something is up with her)
Honestly, I am not gonna blame the writers on this one
I'm gonna blame the fact that they were probably forced to make the routes this way. Only nohrians in conquest, only hosidans in birthright.
I can imagine them asking the higher ups if you could recruit the nohrians siblings in conquest, and some higher up going "But if they got the nohrians in birthright, they might not buy conquest!"
I'm not saying that the writers are perfect, nor am I saying that I know the development process of this game, but that is what I get from this. all these supports are way too good for the story that got created, so I'm hesitant to believe that the writers are inept.
Isaac Steele Finally a devil's advocate
EmblemBlade9 not really a devils advocate...
I still think he story is trash on all routes
Isaac Steele I meant more in the sense of trying to explain a good reason for why something ended up the way it did instead of just suggesting incompetence.
Except you actually get both Hoshidans and Nohrians in both birthright and conquest. They aren't 100% Nohr for conquest or 100% Hoshidan for Birthright
@@isaacsteele7986 Birthright's story isn't trash
Those supports really made me like Xander and he's my favorite character in fates just under Leo. Too bad he's a stupid tool in the story.
Xander: "Tell me what is on your mind Leo. I will listen to you, you know."
Leo: "I think our father is fucking nuts. That's kind of obvious."
Xander: "STFU Leo, you don't know what you are talking about!"
Leo: "Kay, srry..."
I actually really like the idea of Xander killing Elise by accident. But the execution (no pun intended) just isn't there. I think an interesting and more believable scenario would be if Garron killed Elise instead. After all, Elise said she was going to try reasoning with him, and that was destined for failure from the start.
Imagine what kind of situation that would put Xander in. He could turn on his Father when Corrin was in a pinch, sacrificing himself in the process, but creating an open for Corrin.
I think that no matter how the story is told, it's important that two Royal sibilings die as a consequence of the campaign you chose ( aside from Revalation) and the sibilings they chose for each game made perfect sense, but even if the death of Elise was handled better, it wouldn't solve all the problems Xander has presented in all three campaigns. Which could be solved so easily if Garron were a more interesting villian who actually showed a decent side every once in a while.
Honestly the most upsetting part is Xander fans defending the end of Birthright by saying "Xander wanted Corrin to hate him so that he'd kill him!!! It was out of guilt!!"
Yeah, because that's so much better. "I refuse to admit I was wrong, wish for death, but am too much of a coward to end my own life (like Ryoma), so instead I'll force my younger sibling to do it. That way they'll have to vear guilt over both Elise *and* my death!"
How selfless of him.
I love this series and it really makes me think harder about characters that I normally wouldn't think twice about. I know these take quite a long time and I appreciate it. Thanks Ghast!
I'm really glad for this detailed breakdown of his character. It really redeems (support) Xander in my eyes. Also, well, it shows me how to write a character and how *not* to write a character.
It's important to remember that Xander in supports and Xander in game are literally different people. They're different versions of Xander depending on how circumstances play out.
Support Xander is the side of him that accepts support from his siblings, braves the gulfs between them, and ultimately realizes that he isn't fighting for Nor, but for his family. Story Xander is the version that never overcomes those divides, who succumbs to the will of the father, and who hides from his responsibility until he no longer can.
Both end up in the same place in the end, but the journey they take is different. The obvious parallel being takumi. But the game gets away with takumi by an explicit possession plot point. It's not unreasonable to say story Xander is the version who is under that same dark influence, while support Xander is the real person beneath all the duty and justice nonsense.
I like how the thumbnail for this video has changed. Been in my recommended for about a week now and now it's this XD
This is such a high quality video! It's like listening to a literary essay on characters and stories that I am actually interested in
when I first saw the cutsene at 25:50 I took a moment to think, quit the chapter and made a forged swordcather named F*CKYOUXANDER Not even joking (and reclassed to great master)
Lucas geen please be my friend.
ummm... sure
Lucas geen lol, that was an expression for saying that was such a good joke.
Genius... absolutely genius!
Lucas geen and use Arm scroll?
I'm really looking forward to more of these. i've enjoyed all of these support science videos, and they make me enjoy analyzing a game more than any other I have played. I have enjoyed all of these and really hope this series grows.
I'll stop this violence the only way I know how...
*With more violence! CHARGE!!!*
Xander's death is so fucking stupid in BR. I'm convinced it was only done to mirror Ryoma's death in Conquest.
He could have surrendered. Imagine how cool it would be to fight Garon with Xander back you up as a green unit.
This was amazing! Called out all the problems I had with Xander. Such great potential wasted due to bad writing.
Lyle Z115 bad writing, or miscommunication between the support writers and the story writers?
+Azel both
Huh~ Arere, I was a bit intimidated by the length at first, but you went into some nice ground breaking details, good sir!
I have a few thoughts to be made--but I'll wait till I see the second part to make sure they aren't already answered. Eehee.
So this is a classic, classic case of the trope 'Plot Induced Stupidity.'
Suddenly, Xander making Peri his retainer makes more sense.
The developers were really blinded by the bare-bones of this games story. Conquest might as well be named Fire Emblem: Contradiction or Fire Emblem: Contrived lol. I get it the basis of the story is really interesting, but I question just how hard the writers actually tried filling in the rest of the story or just how much they cared. I thought Conquest/Rev Ryoma was bad but Xander is the fucking champ of foolishness. And judging by how he was in Heroes, I truly think story Xander is the true Xander whereas Support Xander might as well be fucking Xane imitating and switching places with him for a laugh lol. Great vid Ghast can't wait for part 2!
the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Nintendo wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Nintendo knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
Yeah I'm subbing. I literally just listened for 40 minutes and stayed interested in your take on Xander. Well done!
i hate how often you say Corrin isn’t Xander’s “real” family, but this analysis is FASCINATING!
Yeah.... I'm super happy you brought this up. I feel there's quite a few characters who change from story to support.
"Ok. I've been hired to make Fate's story, what should I do now... oh, I know!
West= Evil
Japan=Good
... I'm a fucking GENIUS!"
Oh, thank god we got another one of these! These ones are my favorite.
"No more lonely Nothern Fortress for you," I feel this line illustrates that Xander himself was Isolated, not by geography, but by his position in the social structure. Xander is a systems guy, and he keenly sees all the social and institutional structures around him. As such, he keenly sees the invisible barriers that separate him from those he loves(and those he loves less). Corrin is not as socially or politically perceptive, so he or she gets physically isolated from the realm at large for failing to know ones place. Xander knows his place well, so feels the same lonliness because he knows he's just as isolated.
It always felt weird when Xander didn’t listen to Elise’s dying wish, which was for them to stop fighting which he obviously didn’t do.
I feel like it would’ve made more sense if he layed down his sword and joined the Hoshidans attack on Garon. And instead of being killed by Corrin, he protects Corrin from a dying blow from Garon and then Xander dies in Corrin’s arms. It would‘ve made his death much more noble and more fitting for his character.
Plus, it would also make both of the older siblings death’s sacrifices. Ryoma killed himself so that Corrin didn’t have to, and Xander would’ve protected Corrin from a dying blow.
10/10 best thumbnail change ever
A 2 parter??? Oh wow! I am excited, this series is amazing