I'm not sure there are a lot of folks... even trim carpenters.... who really appreciate what Spencer is pointing out here. He's not trying to get out of doing extra work.... adding the rabbit to the base is a PITA in and of itself compared to what normally would be done, but his concern for the final outcome OVER THE YEARS is what separates him from even most really good carpenters. His builders are lucky ( and probably not deserving of ) a guy like him!
@@michaelmaas5544 This type of smarmy comments annoys me too. Not Spencer’s fault. “What you see is all there is” is a term popularized by psychologist Daniel Kahneman to describe the cognitive phenomenon that our brains are wired to believe that the information we have is all the relevant information there is. This becomes a problem because we tend to not look for what we don't see. Bottom line, until more guys put videos online, people will think what they see on TV (TH-cam) is necessarily the best. But really, who cares what people think ? Keep up the good work !
Best master trim carpenter channel on TH-cam!! I still don't understand why Spencer doesn't have atleast a million subscribers. Spencer, thank you for your master work, knowledge and teaching! Keep it up!
I totally agree! Spencer's skills at teaching and communicating are one of the best I've seen on TH-cam. It's given me a lot of confidence to try new things that I normally wouldn't do. Thank you Spencer!
Bacause he isn't doing it for clicks. Spiders are on other chanells where they add cardboard for shims and average Joe likes it. Here is for pros and there are very few mostly because youtibe recomends the spider channels instead of like Spencer has
A trick I used when I built my house was to put some wax paper behind the casing and base so that it sticks out onto the wallboard. Then the painter doesn’t have to tape mask anything to get a crisp edge on either the trim or the wall. Just use a carton knife when painting is finished to cut the wax paper away. Much easier and better results than taping. In the case here where you are butting painted base up to stained casing you can use a piece of wax paper in the joint sticking out proud a couple of inches and make that detail easier for the painters too.
Astute observations, attractive and logical solution I have used for decades. If you can't hide it, accentuate it. Turn a design flaw into an architectural detail. This should be in the top 10 most important techniques of the trade. Love the video.
I don't ever feel like you're complaining. You are giving all of us some of the best teaching and advice to real world scenarios I've ever seen. And to anyone who may be feeling afraid to charge what you're worth on crazy details like in this project. Just know that if they don't spend the money on you, they'll just be spending it on a beach in Hawaii. And if a customer won't pay what you're worth, believe me, you don't want the hell that will come with a customer like that. You will be taken advantage of, all while being treated like garbage the whole time.
I am not a tradesman but a DYIer that is currently in the process of designing a new house for us. Watching you has taught me a lot but also what to consider as we think about the trim details. Thanks for your awesome videos.
I would love for you to do a tour of this house when it's completed, especially after the casing is stained and the baseboard is painted to see how everything turns out.
I’m impressed you thought of the little block to add on to the bottom of the baseboard anticipating a gap when they undercut the jambs. I would not have seen that coming!
As an architect, I would always ask the tradesmen what THEY thought the best way to achieve a certain thing I wanted to do. After talking with them, and asking, "how do YOU want to do it?" or "how hard would it be to do 'X'", I would then go back to the board and drawn it up and spec it the way they wanted to do it. They almost always had great ideas, and that saved money and aggravation. A few tradesmen would then think they could design the whole project THEIR way, but usually not. They didn't know what the client wanted/expected, I did. They were not responsible for good end design work, I was. I was schooled and experienced in proper design, they were not. This is the reason most architects ignore the tradesmen. Tradesmen have no idea what goes on between the designer and the client, but want to jump in and dictate. But, ALWAYS, it was great to confer with the tradesmen during the design, and as problems arise. If they don't get ahead of themselves, and understand the whole design, they usually have great solutions. MAN I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL.
That's a great approach. As a tradesman it's easy to want to value engineer these detail or make them more practical. But the truth is the client wants a unique design that is completely impractical a lot of the time.
@@InsiderCarpentry Or could be tacky af. Too many clients follow trends, never think of what it will look like in 5-10 years. Look how many people used that dark cheap paneling and had to sponge their walls, etc. in the 70's and 80's. It is the job of the designer and architect to guide them away from fads and bad design. Or the designer just needs to walk away, let them live with the regret.
My complaint has always been that you guys need some amount of field experience but if you are conferring with the carpenters that's really top shelf thinking.
Sadly too many architects do not want to hear anything the trades have to say. As an electrician I have had numerous arguments over lighting that will not do the job for the customer but looks pretty in the architects eye. Interior decorators are far worse too.
@@rickcolumbo3148 Thanks but it just makes good sense. We overlook things and make mistakes. All the time. Any trade whatsoever on the job needs to be involved. Some don't care though.
i appreciate you covering this. as a finish carpenter working with a custom home builder that prefers using same thickness stock for base and casing, this is a great explanation and presentation on the challenges it presents. well done.
Love what you did here. As a painter, I have an idea. How much more work would it be to stick a piece of 1.41" blue painter's tape on the butt end of the baseboard before you nail it in place? It would then be masked off between the end of the baseboard and the side of the casing. Then, after staining and painting, you could cut the tape with a razor at the joint. Just a thought. It would sure make it easier to stain and clear coat the casings then paint the baseboards. It is not your responsibility to do this for the painter, but You'd have a hard getting rid of him if you did that for him.
Wow. What great detail and information! I’m not sure if the average person watching will ever fully understand the detail you do in your work but I certainly can relate and keep doing amazing work. Always great to see a true professional craftsman doing his thing. If all trades were this conscientious the public perception of trades and builders would be so much better. Very well done!!!
Well young fella you saved my bacon with this vid. I need to baseboard a total remodel cobblestone here in upstate Ny. 3/4 casing and 3/4 baseboard. I WILL rabbet the base....what a great approach. Yours truly "the 78 year old one eyed trim carpenter"
I appreciate your communication style as much as your craftsmanship. You make it easier for a lamen like myself to identify and appreciate the attention to detail that goes into a job done right.
Spencer, I really enjoyed this video and how you added the sub-titles at the bottom. That was a really cool touch. The flow of the video was great, too. I am always looking forward to your next video. I feel bad for the poor bastard that has to paint that place!
As an Architect, we all should push design and challenge ourselves. Yes, money is always a concern. The rewards are what takes us all to the next level. I would love to see the final product.
As an architect the last thing you should be doing is designing trim work or carpentry. Flush base and trim is ridiculous. Now, if it had been specified NO base and NO trim, that would look good.
Yes Sir i agree, however as an architect, when what you have drawn on paper doesn’t match your vision don’t blame the carpenters……keep is stylish and simple
@@espressomatic It really is the craziest fad yet. And worse it will go out of style, since it doesn't make any sense. No base and no trim doesn't seem practical.
I like when Spencer was critiquing himself while shooting the activator scene. Haha. My jobs are sometimes complicated And the hardest part is keeping the mind frame that it’ll be finished eventually. Some projects are faster than others. These are projects you have to settle in and work through the jobs.
2 points 1st - when you do the rabbet to the end of the base the whole idea of the casing and base being the same/flush is gone. 2nd I was asked to do a job in this manner (casing and base being the same/flush) but they both were stained. I used a peace of metal flashing at the joint of the base and casing. Cut them the width of the base and about 4” long. Tacked them at the middle of the casing out just below where the casing would be set. That was 8-10 years ago and I did a little deck at that house last summer and from the few areas I was in the house again, at that time, and it looks like it all held up well. You do great work and you’ve taught this old dog a few tricks too. I’ve been at this since 1988 keep up the good work love your content.
I like these crazy details! It’s nice to see something elevated away from just builder grade crap. No reason to complain cuz you’re learning something new and beautiful!
I spent many years in the trade it is always amazing how designers have the worst possible ideas the scope of their work should be limited to picking pillows, thanks for sharing
I live in a modern home where the trim work is complicated, so I appreciate this video. I love your attention to the little details, especially in the complex transition areas. I would love to see more of you doing modern home trim work in your upcoming videos.
Great video as always. With all things construction, the number one requirement (and thing many contractors are worst at) is communication. The options for responses to most designer requests are simple: "No, I won't do this detail" or "This detail adds $XX to the cost" or "This detail is unknown, so I'll do it on a T&M basis."
MR LEWIS, SIR!! Although I think that the rabbet detail you are providing is a very nice look, I can certainly say that you are going about this situation the long way. The easiest solution, which I'm POSITIVE the painters would prefer, is to talk to them and get them to pre-paint all of the baseboards and also pre-stain all of the casings. Your heart is in the right place but, as you said yourself, it will STILL be a pain to try to cut a paint line between the baseboard and casing (more so, in my opinion) and now it will definitely be more difficult to cut the stain line along the edge of the casing where it meets the baseboard. As a professional high-end painter and custom home builder I can attest to the fact that this is the preferred method, especially considering that if we pre-spray it then the only thing we need to do is fill the nail holes and caulk the edges then do a "touch-up" coat instead of doing either doing 2 coats of brush work OR masking off the entirety of the house and vacuuming the CRAP out of the floors so we can spray them in-place. I, personally, ALWAYS speak with the finishing carpenter first (if I'm not installing it all myself) and arrange a time to come and pre-spray all of the trim. This provides the absolute best looking results with the least amount of time and effort and is the most economic due to not having to prep the entire house with poly, masking paper and tape. That being said, I have LOVED your videos for years now and this is the first issue I have ever had with anything you have posted, so I tip my hat to you, sir. Keep the vids coming!
Rabbit or not, having a cordless bisquit joiner to join many of the joints(mitered, beveled, butt), helps keep material from shifting from each other over time. To me, it out weighs the possibility of having to replace it in the future....that's why we have oscillating saws. Just my opinion. Spencer has all my respect and he gets good jobs because he is an expert. I have learned so much from his videos.
5:50 Rabbit using the router. You need a scrap piece to prevent the router bit from blowing out the end as it tends to splinter the workpiece when it reaches the end. by clamping a sacrificial scrap piece you can avoid this issue. For this house. the most practical method would be to just tack up the moulding so it can be removed for paint & for the flooring. Then install permanently after the flooring & painting is done.
Sometimes you just have back out the baseboard to flush out with the trim. Cutting a quirk is actually a pretty standard carpentry detail. Enjoy your vids. Great to see young craftsman working at a high level of skill.
From your comment I can see that you're seasoned carpenter that know a bit more than an average person...my question to you is why do you install baseboards before flooring? I thought that one of the baseboard jobs is to hide the gaps between flooring and wall. I'm asking because I honestly would like to learn about it from someone who knows abut the trade, not just reading first thing that Google spits out
@@madebyveteran There are times when installing the baseboard before the finish flooring is acceptable. As Spencer explains; applying a shoe molding after the flooring is in place will address the issue of the expansion joint. The shoe mold covers the gap. Re-watch the video he explains this very well. Baseboard can also be install before carpeting. You leave a gap suitable for the thickness of the carpet to be installed. The carpet guys will roll the carpet under the baseboard leaving a clean finish. Some cases with decorative concrete floors you will want to install the baseboard first especial if utilizing a flush or recessed reglet detail. Hope that helps.
Too funny. Just did a small remodel where the customer wanted white 1x4 baseboard and stained 1x4 casing. I did biscuits for alignment, but I didn't glue them for potential future modifications. Only 5 doors, so nothing dramatic, in terms of time spent biscuiting. The painters did a damn good job taping everything and cutting in straight lines. Their only issue was they laid stain too think with brushes and never chased it with a rag. This is the first time I ran into this so this video is a big coincidence in my world. One thing I'll note is that I saw a comment on a video mentioning using the same detail on baseboard and casing that carried around. Definitely caught my interest. I think it would look very cohesive if you mitered your casing and baseboard/caps around everywhere. Might try it on my own house sometime for fun, experience, and a visual.
Did my own house (so had poet license for interpretation) in mahogany/maple natural finish solid wood trim for a mid-cen/contemporary look. Pretty much all components are slightly diff thicknesses, not flush, to add visual interest. Even without the painting issue I was concerned w wood movement. Didn’t do a rabbet, rather did a small chamfer on the abutting pieces (wainscoting in a couple rooms so rails stiles and base), adds a nice shadow line and helps disguise any small gap that might appear over time. And it’s something that’s very rarely seen in our area which is dominated by factory-made painted trim on sheetrock. As always YMMV. Just sharing. Nothing more nothing less.
Thanks for sharing the intricate details you have to deal with and the innovative solutions to allow the painter to achieve a flawless final look. I agree that requiring base and casing to be flush is crazy. It would be fun to hear Brent Hull comment on the casing not being proud of the base, another instance of a designer adding a detail that makes no sense and violates all the rules of classical architecture Millwork installs.
Excellent content and trade education, Spencer. My business would have been buried long ago if it were not for your efforts. Thank you for caring. I appreciate all your efforts. Loved when you smiled for inadvertently"dusting" the camera crew! I bet you're a hoot on the golf course! Again, thank you for caring and sharing to make us believe in ourselves as we learn and grow in business.
A Shadow Line is what he’s creating. It’s the most practical solution as you are making the joint part of the look as apposed to hiding the joint and trying to achieve a monolithic/ seamless look.
The flush base/casing with a rebate detail is pretty much the only detail I've done for the past 9 years in Toronto! Though thankfully for the painters, it's been all paint grade. Stained casing and painted base make me happy I'm not a painter
I’m still amazed that you install the baseboards before finished floor. Never seen that before in any of the new home builds Ive been in. No matter what flooring it is. Maybe it’s a local area thing
I take it the rabbet looked better than a chamfer? Great content you're putting out. Looking out for the flooring guys with the nails is great. I wish I had a trim guy like you to work behind. Guys around here surely don't do that...
We're doing two houses right now and the trim is so bad. No shims on any of the doors. I thought my guys didn't wipe down the caulk after putting it on, but then we figured out since there was no shims the doors were moving causing the fresh caulk to appear as if it had just been put on and not wiped down. No joinery anywhere and it's all 1x casing and base so no matter what we do there are gaps between the tops and sides of all the casing. Not to mention they took absolutely no care to make sure the casing was flat. MDF base in bathrooms, and the garage which I doubt will last a year, some of it in the garage has already been soaked when the tile guy decided to set his saw up right next to the wall. I really wish there were more people like you who cared about the final product, and how well it will hold up over the years.
Spence I trim homes & do piece jobs all finish carpentry. Now building stair steps for a heart clinic! However I did a custom just a couple months ago and out here on the West Coast it’s more traditional craftsman detail?. I don’t think I like that fiddly part but hey? That’s what we do? And I build a ton of cabinets some custom? So I know the fiddle part ! Thk u for your time & video I hv learned some much from you Spence!
Spencer, great solution with the rabbeted baseboard end and it works really well with the detail on the door faces. Haha, do you guys remember seeing all those houses where they use the same trim as casing as baseboard? Good God just shoot me! Good old time plinth blocks come to mind when dealing with casing and baseboard that is the same thickness.
Great tip mate thanks. Have come across this loads and have struggled. Will definitely try this, shimming is just too much work and will move, resulting in cracks etc
Hey man. I did my whole downstairs with Koetter backband moulding around all my 1x4 casings. That’s the way to go. Looks fantastic. Makes a decent door look very expensive 😊
I always learn so much Spencer. Thanks. I too do not understand why they wouldn't just go with a slightly smaller base. It would look just as good and be a whole lot less expensive.
Spencer, Really good video as is normal for you. Personally, I didn't like the trim package period. I guess I'm more traditional style. Mitered trim or corner blocks. A nice 3 pc crown if used. 4 or 6 panel doors worked for me. The owners want what they want and I'm sure when it's all done it will look good. After all, they're footing the bill. As I was told once, it's NOT your home, so do the work to the best of your talent, shut up and get paid. Look forward to your videos, Ron
I gotta wonder why on this high end job with all the details they would spec poplar for their stained trim. I get that it’s cheaper but still. I hope the painter can work a miracle when he stains it.
Thx for sharing all your videos with us.Very educational one good tips.Your a good problem solver.Good job and tips on installing these baseboards.Your a smart man,thankyou
I sometimes get frustrated with some interior decorators. The ones that have been in the business for many years understand that sometimes compromises have to be made. The ones I usually have problems with are the ones that are fresh into the real world, That don't understand, or get angry when you point out why a certain dimension or detail won't work. I usually have an alternate suggestion that would give the look that they're looking for and make it more "practical" from an installers perspective. The bottom line is that we're on the same team. We both want the project to come out beautiful. There's no need to get into a pissing contest. I have cut ties with one interior decorator because she simply would not listen to what I had to say, dismissing it as unimportant. The ones I have stuck with get it, and we love to work with each other. I try to get along with everybody, I never want an adversarial working relationship. Sometimes, it's just not possible, so I won't argue, I just simply pack up my tools and walk away. You did a quite a few details on that job to make it happen in a practical way. That stuff takes time and money to accomplish. Some are willing to pay the extra for those details, and others are not and/or don't quite understand why it cost more.
I had the same situation with the same solution. Unfortunately these modern style homes have even harder details. With reglets and inset baseboards and casing. All kinds of issues to make everything streamlined. Simpler is harder.
This is a great solution. Worst case, if they still insist on the flush transition, after the casing is stained it can be masked then the rabbit filled with latex caulk before paint. That way it will allow movement but maintain a flush look. Not saying it's ideal but it would be better than doing exactly what they called for.
Something I have done in the past when I have installed a quarter round or shoe molding after installing new flooring (and they didn’t want the baseboard pulled) is putting a chamfer just on the tip of the edge where the parts meet.
@@jeffshackleford3152 Think of it as putting a miter on the end of the board where it meets the vertical casing, but not a complete miter- you just want to soften the edge. I usually set the miter saw to 30 degress and only take off around 1/8" on 3/8" thick shoe molding and maybe 1/4" on 1/2" thick quarter round. You will still have a small portion of the shoe molding with a blunt or 90 degree edge, but similar to the rabbet that Spencer is doing on this job, the baseboard will not stick out farter than the vertical casing which really looks bad. if I could upload a picture it would be easier to understand maybe.
This is definitely a trend in my area that I’ve done a lot of and let me tell you if it’s not done right it looks horrible but me personally I use shims and Brad nails that I nail on a angle into the door casing and casing into the base as well as glue then sand every joint flush after applying wood filler mostly used for the nail holes I created but it holds up very well I revisited houses I did years ago and they’re still as seem less as I left them but know most finish carpenters won’t put in that effort to make them come out seem less I’ve seen it time and time again but I Agree if ever you would need to remove it for some reason it won’t be easy and most likely you’ll have to replace both base and casing
All I know this architects and designers drew this marvelous set ups and with their computers they even show us how a 3D will look , bu , BUT in the field is a different ball totally different … sometimes I don’t call myself a carpenter … I’m magician or like my friends call me( macgiver) Jokes apart Spencer, Mr Spencer my respects to your professionalism and admiration
Heck yea! Love how you (respectfully) called it like you see it. My buddy and I are always saying, “Why don’t people just want normal sh#^ 😂?” I appreciate the challenge though. I wouldn’t want to be doing what I’m doing if it were the same everyday.
Wish I'd known this 3 years ago.. our builder did the 1x6 baseboard and trim thing plus caulking.... resulting in a crack at each trim connection. Grrr.
People have gotten out of control with what they want and they expect a tradesman to perform miracles for me the stain and paint is absolutely ridiculous and the architect is a knucklehead for not recommending to the client baseboard that is not the same thickness as the casing. As usual Spencer you're a pro.
You have no idea of how hard architects try to dissuade the clients not to do these crazy things constantly. Often they don't listen to reason, price doesn't matter, they just insist and threaten to fire you. The client's ego is a tremendous thing. These are not rational people most often. Since somehow they can build a house they suddenly become Megan Markle. They get very emotional.
Agree with all your points. I think I would try an do an eased edge where they but together Was taught a dado is perpendicular to the wood grain. Groove is parallel with the grain
Honestly, I’d have pitched the hell out of back-banding all of the casing, as you normally would with wainscot. That way, you’d rabbet the casing itself, slap a 1x2 around the ends and achieve the same result. You’re a master, nonetheless.
YES, they need to learn to work with the architect and back off and not try to take over, the architect is responsible in the end. The architects ignore the tradesmen because of this. Both need to check their egos and work together so a little communication can happen and a great result can be achieved. Too often the tradesmen will bad mouth the designer to the client. That should never happen.
I understand your point for the finished product but there’s no way the painter would pay that much especially considering Spencer’s hourly is higher than the painter. And it would really screw up the work flow
I always spray butt ends as I’m building my trim. as a matter of fact, I always have a sprayer in my shop, dedicated to primer and always ready to spray . I pre prime everting before it goes up. A spray can of primer can really help the over all finish in the end.
Carpenter here in Australia, one of the trends I dislike is shadow line baseboard (we call it skirting) it takes every trade a lot longer to achieve a good result, from the framers, to the Carpenter to the Gyprockers and painters, any one that mucks up along the way will affect the end result, is it worth it ?, looks nice but a lot of work just to hide a simple piece of timber
This is by far, one the THE most groundbreaking fixes to a century long problem. Decade after decade, the trades became more and more “efficient” in their processes. And, when I mention “efficiency”.. it’s a backhanded compliment. Lol A project is supposed to increase in refinement as it moves forward. Rough carpentry gets smoothed out with sheet goods and plaster/drywall. And that gets smoothed out with joint compound and trim carpentry. And that gets smoothed out with caulk and paint. But for some reason, modern “tradesmen” go into each respective phase thinking blown out lumber or proud screws/nails is the drywallers job. And the drywaller thinks the lumps are the tapers job. And the homeowner always goes pit bull on the finish carpenter when the crown molding or baseboards are wavy. Lol Or the poor trim/finish carpenter has to fill 1/2in. gaps along cabinets because the framing started off yenky. If you ever find a carpenter that lays out his walls with the crowns facing the same side.. give him a raise and chain him to the door of your work truck.!! Anyway… this character just helped solve an issue for tradesmen and homeowners alike. Great job.
@ T I agree.!! Unfortunately…. I’ve seen many younger men enter the trades learning to kick the can. And being labeled carpenters or framers. I can’t remember the last time I’ve heard the term “master Carpenter” used to describe a tradesman. Nowadays it’s just like stamp.. lick it and stick it. I have been working on private business jets for the last 23yrs. And I’m one of only 2 persons in the U.S that do what I do within that industry. I repair damaged veneer under satin finish. Thousands upon thousands around the world repair high gloss finish.. and it’s fairly simple. But, it’s only through my attention to detail that I’ve fallen into a catagory of excellence. But here’s the kicker. There is no market for excellence in building track homes. The refinement goes up as the budget goes up.
Man oh man! The painters are in for a royal pain on that job. Sure seems like it would have been a good idea to have them come in and do the stain and finish on all the stain grade before the paint grade went in.
A tradesman who adjusts his work to make the next guys job easier is the mark of a gentleman and a scholar. I salute you sir.
I'm not sure there are a lot of folks... even trim carpenters.... who really appreciate what Spencer is pointing out here. He's not trying to get out of doing extra work.... adding the rabbit to the base is a PITA in and of itself compared to what normally would be done, but his concern for the final outcome OVER THE YEARS is what separates him from even most really good carpenters. His builders are lucky ( and probably not deserving of ) a guy like him!
I'm thankful that I work for a great builder who appreciates the quality and effort.
@@InsiderCarpentry what style of sander was that that you are using?GOD BLESS
@@joebinion1Festool
Not taking anything away from Spencer but there are plenty of us out here doing high quality work.
@@michaelmaas5544
This type of smarmy comments annoys me too.
Not Spencer’s fault.
“What you see is all there is” is a term popularized by psychologist Daniel Kahneman to describe the cognitive phenomenon that our brains are wired to believe that the information we have is all the relevant information there is. This becomes a problem because we tend to not look for what we don't see.
Bottom line, until more guys put videos online, people will think what they see on TV (TH-cam) is necessarily the best.
But really, who cares what people think ?
Keep up the good work !
Best master trim carpenter channel on TH-cam!! I still don't understand why Spencer doesn't have atleast a million subscribers.
Spencer, thank you for your master work, knowledge and teaching! Keep it up!
I appreciate the kind words Crackerman!
@@InsiderCarpentryYou got it! Just the facts!!! Thank you for the reply!!!
I totally agree! Spencer's skills at teaching and communicating are one of the best I've seen on TH-cam. It's given me a lot of confidence to try new things that I normally wouldn't do. Thank you Spencer!
Bacause he isn't doing it for clicks. Spiders are on other chanells where they add cardboard for shims and average Joe likes it. Here is for pros and there are very few mostly because youtibe recomends the spider channels instead of like Spencer has
A trick I used when I built my house was to put some wax paper behind the casing and base so that it sticks out onto the wallboard. Then the painter doesn’t have to tape mask anything to get a crisp edge on either the trim or the wall. Just use a carton knife when painting is finished to cut the wax paper away. Much easier and better results than taping.
In the case here where you are butting painted base up to stained casing you can use a piece of wax paper in the joint sticking out proud a couple of inches and make that detail easier for the painters too.
Astute observations, attractive and logical solution I have used for decades. If you can't hide it, accentuate it. Turn a design flaw into an architectural detail. This should be in the top 10 most important techniques of the trade. Love the video.
All I can say is I hope the architect, the general contractor, and the clients appreciate your skill and conscientiousness.
I don't ever feel like you're complaining. You are giving all of us some of the best teaching and advice to real world scenarios I've ever seen. And to anyone who may be feeling afraid to charge what you're worth on crazy details like in this project. Just know that if they don't spend the money on you, they'll just be spending it on a beach in Hawaii. And if a customer won't pay what you're worth, believe me, you don't want the hell that will come with a customer like that. You will be taken advantage of, all while being treated like garbage the whole time.
Thanks for taking the time to make great educational videos.
I am not a tradesman but a DYIer that is currently in the process of designing a new house for us. Watching you has taught me a lot but also what to consider as we think about the trim details. Thanks for your awesome videos.
I would love for you to do a tour of this house when it's completed, especially after the casing is stained and the baseboard is painted to see how everything turns out.
Same. Haven't checked yet since this is one month old now, but I bet that looks crazy cool when finished.
I’m impressed you thought of the little block to add on to the bottom of the baseboard anticipating a gap when they undercut the jambs. I would not have seen that coming!
As an architect, I would always ask the tradesmen what THEY thought the best way to achieve a certain thing I wanted to do. After talking with them, and asking, "how do YOU want to do it?" or "how hard would it be to do 'X'", I would then go back to the board and drawn it up and spec it the way they wanted to do it. They almost always had great ideas, and that saved money and aggravation. A few tradesmen would then think they could design the whole project THEIR way, but usually not.
They didn't know what the client wanted/expected, I did. They were not responsible for good end design work, I was. I was schooled and experienced in proper design, they were not. This is the reason most architects ignore the tradesmen. Tradesmen have no idea what goes on between the designer and the client, but want to jump in and dictate. But, ALWAYS, it was great to confer with the tradesmen during the design, and as problems arise. If they don't get ahead of themselves, and understand the whole design, they usually have great solutions.
MAN I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL.
That's a great approach. As a tradesman it's easy to want to value engineer these detail or make them more practical. But the truth is the client wants a unique design that is completely impractical a lot of the time.
@@InsiderCarpentry Or could be tacky af. Too many clients follow trends, never think of what it will look like in 5-10 years. Look how many people used that dark cheap paneling and had to sponge their walls, etc. in the 70's and 80's. It is the job of the designer and architect to guide them away from fads and bad design. Or the designer just needs to walk away, let them live with the regret.
My complaint has always been that you guys need some amount of field experience but if you are conferring with the carpenters that's really top shelf thinking.
Sadly too many architects do not want to hear anything the trades have to say. As an electrician I have had numerous arguments over lighting that will not do the job for the customer but looks pretty in the architects eye. Interior decorators are far worse too.
@@rickcolumbo3148 Thanks but it just makes good sense. We overlook things and make mistakes. All the time. Any trade whatsoever on the job needs to be involved. Some don't care though.
i appreciate you covering this. as a finish carpenter working with a custom home builder that prefers using same thickness stock for base and casing, this is a great explanation and presentation on the challenges it presents. well done.
Solid idea. The big builders would blow right through that and never pay attention to the details.
Love what you did here. As a painter, I have an idea. How much more work would it be to stick a piece of 1.41" blue painter's tape on the butt end of the baseboard before you nail it in place? It would then be masked off between the end of the baseboard and the side of the casing. Then, after staining and painting, you could cut the tape with a razor at the joint. Just a thought. It would sure make it easier to stain and clear coat the casings then paint the baseboards. It is not your responsibility to do this for the painter, but You'd have a hard getting rid of him if you did that for him.
Wow. What great detail and information! I’m not sure if the average person watching will ever fully understand the detail you do in your work but I certainly can relate and keep doing amazing work. Always great to see a true professional craftsman doing his thing. If all trades were this conscientious the public perception of trades and builders would be so much better. Very well done!!!
Well young fella you saved my bacon with this vid. I need to baseboard a total remodel cobblestone here in upstate Ny. 3/4 casing and 3/4 baseboard. I WILL rabbet the base....what a great approach. Yours truly "the 78 year old one eyed trim carpenter"
I appreciate your communication style as much as your craftsmanship. You make it easier for a lamen like myself to identify and appreciate the attention to detail that goes into a job done right.
Spencer, I really enjoyed this video and how you added the sub-titles at the bottom. That was a really cool touch. The flow of the video was great, too. I am always looking forward to your next video. I feel bad for the poor bastard that has to paint that place!
It's quite the house. I think everyone would definitely love to see the finished product.
As an Architect, we all should push design and challenge ourselves. Yes, money is always a concern. The rewards are what takes us all to the next level. I would love to see the final product.
As an architect the last thing you should be doing is designing trim work or carpentry. Flush base and trim is ridiculous. Now, if it had been specified NO base and NO trim, that would look good.
Yes Sir i agree, however as an architect, when what you have drawn on paper doesn’t match your vision don’t blame the carpenters……keep is stylish and simple
@@tommooe4524 yep, both sides of my family are union carpenters, fitters and laborers
I do agree with you.
@@espressomatic It really is the craziest fad yet. And worse it will go out of style, since it doesn't make any sense. No base and no trim doesn't seem practical.
What a Great solution for a design consideration “handed to you to make it work”. Thanks for sharing this situation with us. Great job! Thank you.
Anyone would be lucky to have this master craftsman to work in their home.
I like when Spencer was critiquing himself while shooting the activator scene. Haha. My jobs are sometimes complicated
And the hardest part is keeping the mind frame that it’ll be finished eventually. Some projects are faster than others. These are projects you have to settle in and work through the jobs.
2 points 1st - when you do the rabbet to the end of the base the whole idea of the casing and base being the same/flush is gone.
2nd I was asked to do a job in this manner (casing and base being the same/flush) but they both were stained. I used a peace of metal flashing at the joint of the base and casing. Cut them the width of the base and about 4” long. Tacked them at the middle of the casing out just below where the casing would be set. That was 8-10 years ago and I did a little deck at that house last summer and from the few areas I was in the house again, at that time, and it looks like it all held up well.
You do great work and you’ve taught this old dog a few tricks too. I’ve been at this since 1988 keep up the good work love your content.
I like these crazy details! It’s nice to see something elevated away from just builder grade crap. No reason to complain cuz you’re learning something new and beautiful!
I spent many years in the trade it is always amazing how designers have the worst possible ideas the scope of their work should be limited to picking pillows, thanks for sharing
I live in a modern home where the trim work is complicated, so I appreciate this video. I love your attention to the little details, especially in the complex transition areas. I would love to see more of you doing modern home trim work in your upcoming videos.
More to come. We have another really cool modern home coming up later in the year. Might even get into some flush baseboard.
That “feature” aka solution matches up with the door detail very nicely.
OMG this is what my wife wanted. I'll have her watch the video. We don't know the skill level of the subs yet. Thanks
Great video as always. With all things construction, the number one requirement (and thing many contractors are worst at) is communication. The options for responses to most designer requests are simple: "No, I won't do this detail" or "This detail adds $XX to the cost" or "This detail is unknown, so I'll do it on a T&M basis."
MR LEWIS, SIR!! Although I think that the rabbet detail you are providing is a very nice look, I can certainly say that you are going about this situation the long way. The easiest solution, which I'm POSITIVE the painters would prefer, is to talk to them and get them to pre-paint all of the baseboards and also pre-stain all of the casings. Your heart is in the right place but, as you said yourself, it will STILL be a pain to try to cut a paint line between the baseboard and casing (more so, in my opinion) and now it will definitely be more difficult to cut the stain line along the edge of the casing where it meets the baseboard. As a professional high-end painter and custom home builder I can attest to the fact that this is the preferred method, especially considering that if we pre-spray it then the only thing we need to do is fill the nail holes and caulk the edges then do a "touch-up" coat instead of doing either doing 2 coats of brush work OR masking off the entirety of the house and vacuuming the CRAP out of the floors so we can spray them in-place. I, personally, ALWAYS speak with the finishing carpenter first (if I'm not installing it all myself) and arrange a time to come and pre-spray all of the trim. This provides the absolute best looking results with the least amount of time and effort and is the most economic due to not having to prep the entire house with poly, masking paper and tape. That being said, I have LOVED your videos for years now and this is the first issue I have ever had with anything you have posted, so I tip my hat to you, sir. Keep the vids coming!
Rabbit or not, having a cordless bisquit joiner to join many of the joints(mitered, beveled, butt), helps keep material from shifting from each other over time. To me, it out weighs the possibility of having to replace it in the future....that's why we have oscillating saws.
Just my opinion. Spencer has all my respect and he gets good jobs because he is an expert. I have learned so much from his videos.
5:50 Rabbit using the router. You need a scrap piece to prevent the router bit from blowing out the end as it tends to splinter the workpiece when it reaches the end. by clamping a sacrificial scrap piece you can avoid this issue.
For this house. the most practical method would be to just tack up the moulding so it can be removed for paint & for the flooring. Then install permanently after the flooring & painting is done.
Sometimes you just have back out the baseboard to flush out with the trim. Cutting a quirk is actually a pretty standard carpentry detail. Enjoy your vids. Great to see young craftsman working at a high level of skill.
From your comment I can see that you're seasoned carpenter that know a bit more than an average person...my question to you is why do you install baseboards before flooring? I thought that one of the baseboard jobs is to hide the gaps between flooring and wall. I'm asking because I honestly would like to learn about it from someone who knows abut the trade, not just reading first thing that Google spits out
@@madebyveteran There are times when installing the baseboard before the finish flooring is acceptable. As Spencer explains; applying a shoe molding after the flooring is in place will address the issue of the expansion joint. The shoe mold covers the gap. Re-watch the video he explains this very well. Baseboard can also be install before carpeting. You leave a gap suitable for the thickness of the carpet to be installed. The carpet guys will roll the carpet under the baseboard leaving a clean finish. Some cases with decorative concrete floors you will want to install the baseboard first especial if utilizing a flush or recessed reglet detail. Hope that helps.
Too funny. Just did a small remodel where the customer wanted white 1x4 baseboard and stained 1x4 casing. I did biscuits for alignment, but I didn't glue them for potential future modifications. Only 5 doors, so nothing dramatic, in terms of time spent biscuiting. The painters did a damn good job taping everything and cutting in straight lines. Their only issue was they laid stain too think with brushes and never chased it with a rag. This is the first time I ran into this so this video is a big coincidence in my world. One thing I'll note is that I saw a comment on a video mentioning using the same detail on baseboard and casing that carried around. Definitely caught my interest. I think it would look very cohesive if you mitered your casing and baseboard/caps around everywhere. Might try it on my own house sometime for fun, experience, and a visual.
Did my own house (so had poet license for interpretation) in mahogany/maple natural finish solid wood trim for a mid-cen/contemporary look. Pretty much all components are slightly diff thicknesses, not flush, to add visual interest. Even without the painting issue I was concerned w wood movement. Didn’t do a rabbet, rather did a small chamfer on the abutting pieces (wainscoting in a couple rooms so rails stiles and base), adds a nice shadow line and helps disguise any small gap that might appear over time. And it’s something that’s very rarely seen in our area which is dominated by factory-made painted trim on sheetrock.
As always YMMV. Just sharing. Nothing more nothing less.
Thanks for sharing the intricate details you have to deal with and the innovative solutions to allow the painter to achieve a flawless final look. I agree that requiring base and casing to be flush is crazy. It would be fun to hear Brent Hull comment on the casing not being proud of the base, another instance of a designer adding a detail that makes no sense and violates all the rules of classical architecture Millwork installs.
The wet setting method for the split jams. Sucha good way to do pocket doors. Thank you so much for that video and this one!
Excellent content and trade education, Spencer. My business would have been buried long ago if it were not for your efforts. Thank you for caring. I appreciate all your efforts.
Loved when you smiled for inadvertently"dusting" the camera crew! I bet you're a hoot on the golf course!
Again, thank you for caring and sharing to make us believe in ourselves as we learn and grow in business.
It's a privilege!
Excellent Video Spencer. On point explanations on how you work around trouble spots
A Shadow Line is what he’s creating.
It’s the most practical solution as you are making the joint part of the look as apposed to hiding the joint and trying to achieve a monolithic/ seamless look.
The flush base/casing with a rebate detail is pretty much the only detail I've done for the past 9 years in Toronto! Though thankfully for the painters, it's been all paint grade. Stained casing and painted base make me happy I'm not a painter
That style is just now starting to catch on in my area.
I’m still amazed that you install the baseboards before finished floor. Never seen that before in any of the new home builds Ive been in. No matter what flooring it is. Maybe it’s a local area thing
It’s done that way in Tennessee as well
And England
Very clever details there spencer.
Love that you care about other tradies.
Great solution to what the architect dreamed up. Hope we can see it finished.
Thanks!
Thank You! I appreciate the support!!!
I take it the rabbet looked better than a chamfer? Great content you're putting out. Looking out for the flooring guys with the nails is great. I wish I had a trim guy like you to work behind. Guys around here surely don't do that...
I hope the builder compensated you well for this extra work!
We're doing two houses right now and the trim is so bad. No shims on any of the doors. I thought my guys didn't wipe down the caulk after putting it on, but then we figured out since there was no shims the doors were moving causing the fresh caulk to appear as if it had just been put on and not wiped down. No joinery anywhere and it's all 1x casing and base so no matter what we do there are gaps between the tops and sides of all the casing. Not to mention they took absolutely no care to make sure the casing was flat. MDF base in bathrooms, and the garage which I doubt will last a year, some of it in the garage has already been soaked when the tile guy decided to set his saw up right next to the wall. I really wish there were more people like you who cared about the final product, and how well it will hold up over the years.
It's sad, but there is a lot of this type of work going on.
I would love to see some more shots of the finished product (stained, painted, and floored)
That’s an interesting detail with the baseboard. Hopefully the painter matches the quality and primes up the rabbit. 🍻
Your the best . Charge and Charge again I’m sure they have the money. When you hire the best expert you pay for that. Great job kid
Spence I trim homes & do piece jobs all finish carpentry. Now building stair steps for a heart clinic! However I did a custom just a couple months ago and out here on the West Coast it’s more traditional craftsman detail?. I don’t think I like that fiddly part but hey? That’s what we do? And I build a ton of cabinets some custom? So I know the fiddle part !
Thk u for your time & video I hv learned some much from you Spence!
Spencer, great solution with the rabbeted baseboard end and it works really well with the detail on the door faces.
Haha, do you guys remember seeing all those houses where they use the same trim as casing as baseboard? Good God just shoot me!
Good old time plinth blocks come to mind when dealing with casing and baseboard that is the same thickness.
Love every single video on your channel .... your attention to detail and forethought really shows through. Hope your week is starting off perfectly!
Great tip mate thanks. Have come across this loads and have struggled. Will definitely try this, shimming is just too much work and will move, resulting in cracks etc
Nice job! Kinda goes with the detail on the doors. I hope you show us the finished trim all stained and painted.
Hey man. I did my whole downstairs with Koetter backband moulding around all my 1x4 casings. That’s the way to go. Looks fantastic. Makes a decent door look very expensive 😊
Trial and try. Repeat if nessecary. Great work . Im trying the rabbit . Thanks . Dont feel bad if you mess up alittle showing. We all learn. God bless
I always learn so much Spencer. Thanks. I too do not understand why they wouldn't just go with a slightly smaller base. It would look just as good and be a whole lot less expensive.
The break solution is elegant. A shadow line. I might use the idea even with different thickness casings and base boards. Elegant.
Whoa, a candid moment! Love it.
Your attention to detail is so impressive. Just curious ,why not paint the baseboards before installation?
Love your videos. I worked with a boat builder who used the rebate method
Spencer, Really good video as is normal for you. Personally, I didn't like the trim package period. I guess I'm more traditional style. Mitered trim or corner blocks. A nice 3 pc crown if used. 4 or 6 panel doors worked for me. The owners want what they want and I'm sure when it's all done it will look good. After all, they're footing the bill. As I was told once, it's NOT your home, so do the work to the best of your talent, shut up and get paid. Look forward to your videos, Ron
I gotta wonder why on this high end job with all the details they would spec poplar for their stained trim. I get that it’s cheaper but still. I hope the painter can work a miracle when he stains it.
Was thinking the same thing lol.
Pre paint /stain materials beforehand?
Thx for sharing all your videos with us.Very educational one good tips.Your a good problem solver.Good job and tips on installing these baseboards.Your a smart man,thankyou
Great job, always a step ahead and thoughtful of the next trade.
I sometimes get frustrated with some interior decorators. The ones that have been in the business for many years understand that sometimes compromises have to be made. The ones I usually have problems with are the ones that are fresh into the real world, That don't understand, or get angry when you point out why a certain dimension or detail won't work. I usually have an alternate suggestion that would give the look that they're looking for and make it more "practical" from an installers perspective. The bottom line is that we're on the same team. We both want the project to come out beautiful. There's no need to get into a pissing contest. I have cut ties with one interior decorator because she simply would not listen to what I had to say, dismissing it as unimportant. The ones I have stuck with get it, and we love to work with each other. I try to get along with everybody, I never want an adversarial working relationship. Sometimes, it's just not possible, so I won't argue, I just simply pack up my tools and walk away. You did a quite a few details on that job to make it happen in a practical way. That stuff takes time and money to accomplish. Some are willing to pay the extra for those details, and others are not and/or don't quite understand why it cost more.
I had the same situation with the same solution.
Unfortunately these modern style homes have even harder details.
With reglets and inset baseboards and casing.
All kinds of issues to make everything streamlined.
Simpler is harder.
This is a great solution. Worst case, if they still insist on the flush transition, after the casing is stained it can be masked then the rabbit filled with latex caulk before paint. That way it will allow movement but maintain a flush look. Not saying it's ideal but it would be better than doing exactly what they called for.
I had to do this but not paint grade all stain grade with a bottom rabbet also. White oak. Pretty tricky
Something I have done in the past when I have installed a quarter round or shoe molding after installing new flooring (and they didn’t want the baseboard pulled) is putting a chamfer just on the tip of the edge where the parts meet.
Please explain
@@jeffshackleford3152 Think of it as putting a miter on the end of the board where it meets the vertical casing, but not a complete miter- you just want to soften the edge. I usually set the miter saw to 30 degress and only take off around 1/8" on 3/8" thick shoe molding and maybe 1/4" on 1/2" thick quarter round. You will still have a small portion of the shoe molding with a blunt or 90 degree edge, but similar to the rabbet that Spencer is doing on this job, the baseboard will not stick out farter than the vertical casing which really looks bad. if I could upload a picture it would be easier to understand maybe.
@@tomreidy1237 Yes, door cuts on shoe mold, I am familiar.
I wasn't sure what you were describing earlier.
This is definitely a trend in my area that I’ve done a lot of and let me tell you if it’s not done right it looks horrible but me personally I use shims and Brad nails that I nail on a angle into the door casing and casing into the base as well as glue then sand every joint flush after applying wood filler mostly used for the nail holes I created but it holds up very well I revisited houses I did years ago and they’re still as seem less as I left them but know most finish carpenters won’t put in that effort to make them come out seem less I’ve seen it time and time again but I Agree if ever you would need to remove it for some reason it won’t be easy and most likely you’ll have to replace both base and casing
Would love to see a finished walk through on this one
If all architectural details were standard ie with a transition block, things could get a bit boring. Excellent work.
That House will be Beautiful !!!
😀
All I know this architects and designers drew this marvelous set ups and with their computers they even show us how a 3D will look , bu , BUT in the field is a different ball totally different … sometimes I don’t call myself a carpenter … I’m magician or like my friends call me( macgiver)
Jokes apart Spencer, Mr Spencer my respects to your professionalism and admiration
Heck yea! Love how you (respectfully) called it like you see it. My buddy and I are always saying, “Why don’t people just want normal sh#^ 😂?” I appreciate the challenge though. I wouldn’t want to be doing what I’m doing if it were the same everyday.
Exactly!!
Very impressive , good stuff
Wish I'd known this 3 years ago.. our builder did the 1x6 baseboard and trim thing plus caulking.... resulting in a crack at each trim connection. Grrr.
Typical production builder. They are just in it for the sale. No concern for longevity.
Fine detail. You do need expansion and contraction with tile, just not as much as other flooring options.
People have gotten out of control with what they want and they expect a tradesman to perform miracles for me the stain and paint is absolutely ridiculous and the architect is a knucklehead for not recommending to the client baseboard that is not the same thickness as the casing. As usual Spencer you're a pro.
You have no idea of how hard architects try to dissuade the clients not to do these crazy things constantly. Often they don't listen to reason, price doesn't matter, they just insist and threaten to fire you. The client's ego is a tremendous thing. These are not rational people most often. Since somehow they can build a house they suddenly become Megan Markle. They get very emotional.
great content as usual... would a Traditional plinth block made it easier?
Agree with all your points. I think I would try an do an eased edge where they but together Was taught a dado is perpendicular to the wood grain. Groove is parallel with the grain
Honestly, I’d have pitched the hell out of back-banding all of the casing, as you normally would with wainscot. That way, you’d rabbet the casing itself, slap a 1x2 around the ends and achieve the same result. You’re a master, nonetheless.
Top tier work as usual my guy 🤜🏻🤛🏻
Asking the painter to pay you to prime the ends with a matching primer would be a win win for everyone.
YES, they need to learn to work with the architect and back off and not try to take over, the architect is responsible in the end. The architects ignore the tradesmen because of this. Both need to check their egos and work together so a little communication can happen and a great result can be achieved. Too often the tradesmen will bad mouth the designer to the client. That should never happen.
I'm not sure the tape job would be any easier though
I understand your point for the finished product but there’s no way the painter would pay that much especially considering Spencer’s hourly is higher than the painter. And it would really screw up the work flow
I always spray butt ends as I’m building my trim. as a matter of fact, I always have a sprayer in my shop, dedicated to primer and always ready to spray . I pre prime everting before it goes up. A spray can of primer can really help the over all finish in the end.
Carpenter here in Australia, one of the trends I dislike is shadow line baseboard (we call it skirting) it takes every trade a lot longer to achieve a good result, from the framers, to the Carpenter to the Gyprockers and painters, any one that mucks up along the way will affect the end result, is it worth it ?, looks nice but a lot of work just to hide a simple piece of timber
Great video. Any chance you can do a short video on the baseboard along that curved hallway and how you get the bend on it
I showed how I did it in my IG stories. I have a TH-cam short video coming up that will talk about that briefly. Stay tuned.
I didn't comprehend anything anfter seeing that 10' + sheet of veneered ply leaning on the wall!
Like watching your videos, seeing how you may do something different
i have been following this project of your, please show us the finished product when done
This is by far, one the THE most groundbreaking fixes to a century long problem.
Decade after decade, the trades became more and more “efficient” in their processes.
And, when I mention “efficiency”.. it’s a backhanded compliment. Lol
A project is supposed to increase in refinement as it moves forward. Rough carpentry gets smoothed out with sheet goods and plaster/drywall. And that gets smoothed out with joint compound and trim carpentry. And that gets smoothed out with caulk and paint.
But for some reason, modern “tradesmen” go into each respective phase thinking blown out lumber or proud screws/nails is the drywallers job. And the drywaller thinks the lumps are the tapers job. And the homeowner always goes pit bull on the finish carpenter when the crown molding or baseboards are wavy. Lol
Or the poor trim/finish carpenter has to fill 1/2in. gaps along cabinets because the framing started off yenky. If you ever find a carpenter that lays out his walls with the crowns facing the same side.. give him a raise and chain him to the door of your work truck.!!
Anyway… this character just helped solve an issue for tradesmen and homeowners alike.
Great job.
Any framers that don't crown there studs or joists have no business calling themselves carpenters.
@ T
I agree.!!
Unfortunately…. I’ve seen many younger men enter the trades learning to kick the can. And being labeled carpenters or framers.
I can’t remember the last time I’ve heard the term “master Carpenter” used to describe a tradesman.
Nowadays it’s just like stamp.. lick it and stick it. I have been working on private business jets for the last 23yrs. And I’m one of only 2 persons in the U.S that do what I do within that industry. I repair damaged veneer under satin finish. Thousands upon thousands around the world repair high gloss finish.. and it’s fairly simple.
But, it’s only through my attention to detail that I’ve fallen into a catagory of excellence.
But here’s the kicker.
There is no market for excellence in building track homes. The refinement goes up as the budget goes up.
Always great info!
I love all your installation tips and reasons for preferences. Now to the elephant in the room: Why is that door a RHOS instead of Left?
Seems like a massive house!
Great idea with the rabbet.
Man oh man! The painters are in for a royal pain on that job. Sure seems like it would have been a good idea to have them come in and do the stain and finish on all the stain grade before the paint grade went in.