How DO We Fix Sonic?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2016
- It started simply enough: as their debut video, the “Good Blood” TH-cam channel posted a breakdown of what they thought Sega should do with Sonic the Hedgehog. That was all the spark I needed to finally put down all of the criticisms and solutions I've been building up in my head, not just about how Sonic works in 3D, but about the stigmas surrounding the franchise. It's a long ride, but I'll leave you to decide: am I just another weirdo Sonic fan that's shouting into the void, or am I right on the money? The only way you’ll know is to push play.
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I agree, I love all the concepts except the timer, it doesn't leave players with alot of room for exploration for speed running. not everyone is good working under that sort of pressure. a time trail mode should be optional.
Agreed! It's almost as if people forget that Sonic is not 100% about speed... Rest of the video, I agree.
Problem is in Mario, time limit counts DOWN. That's meant to make you rush. Sonic makes the counter count UP.
Um, it DOES matter. Sonic has a ten minute time limit if that. Gives you the option to rush or not... There's a reason why they made that so since the 90s... To give you a CHOICE!
My point is that Sonic put the emphasis on choice when Mario pretty much forces you to run. Otherwise, you're not getting very far. Whatever. Agree to disagree.
ghaleonh41 i agree with you a100% sonic should go fast but if players choose to not they can stop to see the nice visuals of the game, it gives it more of an exploration feel since Mario forces you to rush
Oh god why does so many people in the comments think that the gas pedal idea is the same as sonic lost world's run button?
It's not. It's a gas pedal. If you want to go forward, you hold down the gas pedal. In lost world, you hold down the run button + move the stick up. If you move the stick to the left/right, gas pedal one makes you turn depending on how long you hold it, while lost world one makes you go exactly left/right. It's not that hard to understand... He literally said it's similar to the boost mechanic.
i feel like this "sonic can move like a car when you want to but also platform with precision" might be the perfect combination of adventure gameplay and boost gameplay, and as someone who likes both (adventure 2 and unleashed are my first and second favorite games respectively) i'd absolutely be down for a game with those controls
I can agree with all of this
Shesez Did you forget about this comment?
Love Your Boundary Break Vids!(its My Second Favorite Thing to Watch Nowadays)
You just describe the gameplay from my perfect ideal sonic title. Seriously, that is spot on exactly what I've always wanted... from the gameplay. You didn't touch on it's story & narrative much, which I get wasn't the point of the video... but there's one single aspect that I feel has done so much in the last decade and a half to destroy the FEEL of sonic.
If you were to ask someone, who only saw/played/read sonic in the 90s, to give you a synopsis of Sonic the Hedgehog's story it would probably go something like this:
"Moebius/Earth (doesn't matter which) was a peaceful planet where very little ever went wrong... until one day, an "evil" "genius" named Dr. Ivo Robotnik overthrew the government with an army of robots. In a short amount of time he began transforming the once peaceful and quaint world into a dystopia of industrial pollution. One where Robotnik's rule was almost air-tight, and the vast majority of the citizens had been forcibly augmented into cybernetic slaves.
Almost... because in all the chaos, destruction, and despair... No one could catch the one thing that stood in his way to complete and total global domination. Sonic the Hedgehog, the fastest thing alive, who would fight to the bitter end to save his home at all costs."
By contrast, if you asked the same of anyone who had completely missed the early days of sonic, coming instead say... post Dreamcast era. You'd hear a VERY different story.
"Sonic and pals are a group of laid back, fun-loving creatures, who's days of joy and relaxation are constantly interrupted by the "annoyance" of Dr. Eggman and his robots. However, being the bumbling fool (and ineffective jester) that he is, Eggman's plans are easily thwarted through a mixture of Sonic & Pals interference, as well as his own ineptitude as a 'villain'. This all leads to a never ending back and forth of goofy phrases and events that always culminate in good beating evil."
Do you see the key difference?
Robtnik vs. Eggman.
Far deeper than just a name change, almost everything about the antagonist for the series has changed drastically.
It used to be that Sonic's irreverent attitude, and almost care-free freestyle nature was the perfect antithesis of Dr. Robotniks dark, serious, and broody nature combined with his carefully planned schemes and attacks... It had undertones of a Nature vs Machine, Free expression vs rigid rule, speed vs power, and hope vs despair.
The current situation couldn't be any farther from, or any more disappointing.
Sonic's attitude (which is distinctly less 90's extreme nowadays) is now met with not dark, calculated evil... but goofy banter from a 'villain' that no one has any reason to fear or respect. You KNOW Eggman will lose because he's an idiot. A regular person could probably undo all his work. It's NOT an equal match for sonic. It's like your kid brother trying to fight you with his outrage, but you can just hold his head to keep him swinging at the air.
The reason I explain this so deeply, is because when I say I want Robotnik back... I don't mean his name, or his clothes, or anything of the sort. I want our hero to have a VILLAIN. One who's genius mind you actually respect, who's evil nature you even fear. Where you might think "Oh my god, he's got sonic this time!"
I want a narrative that has purpose, that has depth and character to it. Not one that feels like it was written by two 10 year-olds during a slumber-party.
I agree with everything you said. Eggman/Robotnik needs respect. I hope Knuckles gets his character back too.
+djjimmaster Probably the only thing that I liked about Eggman in Sonic '06, is his character. Rather than the newer games where he is silly and all, instead he is more dark and sinister, more calculating and evil, and he uses to IQ to its best. It shows that he is smart and is capable of creating things like Silver/Mecha and of course Metal Sonic, *and* the Death Egg.
I hope that too, but it could happen thanks to project 2017. Where Robotnik, rather than Eggman, finally wins the war, overthrow government and lays waste to a city (City Escape anyone?) Where our blue hedgehog starts to lead a resistance and bunk off Robotnik's reign of terror. I really hope our true villain can comes back.
***** Oh my god! The world will never be the same again!
.
Man, i just still love this video 3 years later...
its just so creative, yeah its not perfect but its good for what it is and i respect that
People seem to be citing Lost World as an example of why a run button "doesn't work." The problem is, Lost World tried a run button while also trying to "fix" aspects of the level design that weren't broken. All Sega needed to do was utilize a run button while retaining principles about past sonic level design that worked well, but instead, they insisted on implementing a run button while simultaneously overhauling level design in favor of "totally tubular" weird gravity nonsense.
Sega needs to stop tossing the baby out with the bathwater and keep what elements actually worked well instead of constantly designing 3D sonic gameplay from the ground up.
Unleashed had a run button for werehog stages so I personally think you're right!
I would honestly be fine if you made a 2 hour video about this, I'd like to see more of what you think
true!
This is great, man.
Well now you've made me tremendously nervous. :p
+BlazeHedgehog Why's that?
Good Blood
Some people have said that towards the end I get a little too harsh towards your channel, and in retrospect I'm inclined to believe them.
Dude your comments are like pillows compared to what i get daily on that age-old Sonic vid. I just appreciate that you've taken the time to put forward creative suggestions. Good work, man.
I hate good blood
I just wanted to say that, ever since I saw this close to six years ago, this video has more or less formed the basis of my outlook on the Sonic series. One of the main reasons why Frontiers has failed to impress me, even with the small snippets of contextless gameplay we've gotten (SEGA at it again, screwing up the bare basics of messaging), is that I'm still seeing these old issues, these crutches that Sonic Team has been hobbling along for decades, and no attempt to get rid of them. Almost immediately in Frontiers, we are bombarded with the unholy quadrilogy of scripting in Sonic games: dash pads, springs, midair boost rings and grind rails. Their default solution to every problem in 3D Sonic games almost instantly became to remove interactivity, and they never ever stopped.
The idea of spinning around a pole and pressing the action button at the right time is something I’m honestly surprised hasn’t been in a Sonic game, especially since the boost games are all about timing everything right. It could really help for turning around a corner that’s too hard to drift around by.
But hey, maybe someone working on another 3D fangame of Sonic might see the idea. Or who knows, they’re probably taking lots of inspiration from this video
i'm already learning how to program just because of this video lol. might hit blaze's e-mail when i have a working tech demo
Canalbiruta And there it is lmao
I salute you, my good sir, for trying out something new
@@chrisprattofficial advanced from gba games
I agree with everything in this video. SEGA seriously needs to take a step back and realize IT IS TIME for some change. Going in this direction would be monumental, and a much needed step in the right direction. Kudos to you Blaze, I support these ideas and I really wish the franchise would too.
Great video, I agree with literally everything you said. His video never did sit right with me, honestly.
I don't agree because sonic is supposed to be fast. just making him slower will make gamers complain about it.and whenever gamers get mad they lose interest in the game making Sega lose all there gamers then there is no company I can keep going if you want. and he needs no fixing you got that good you do u fully understand now and there will be no changes. Only Sega will chose there change with sonic not using your idea
👎dislike
+The soul gamer kid love games Sonic is still fast here. Really, this sounds like the perfect Sonic game to be, and I've been around since we all thought his name was Robotnik.
Sonic does need fixing, the fact that Sonic Team keeps changing literally everything every few years is proof of that.
+The soul gamer kid love games Sonic is still fast here. Really, this sounds like the perfect Sonic game to be, and I've been around since we all thought his name was Robotnik.
Sonic does need fixing, the fact that Sonic Team keeps changing literally everything every few years is proof of that.
same
The "Dear Segs" video is terrible, it feels like it was made by someone who doesn't understand why people like Sonic in the first place, and also doesn't seem to understand the age group of sonic fans (being of all ages).
The problem I have with comparing the video with gameplay elements from Sonic Lost World is that this concept uses logic and 2D Sonic design elements in a 3D environment. Sonic Lost World had a constant speed for each “mode” if you will: walking, running, and spin dashing. This concept allows the run button to be sort of a gateway. Holding it down allows Sonic to gain momentum, rather than just making him go fast like a lot of people are suggesting. This lets the player control the game’s sensitivity based on their circumstances. I feel like a lot of people heard “run button” and immediately posted comments comparing your ideas to Sonic Lost World and completely ignored the rest of your video. I love these kinds of videos. Keep up the good work.
well,i compare it and i view it as a positive. the series needs to evolve its mechanics,not just do whatever.
Also (yeah, i watch this just about every other week), think of it like switching between a Sonic Unleashed hub and the small level select area. The walking speed would be similar to the hub and the other speed would allow for the player to speed up (obviously without the boost). Not instant speed.
And vice-versa. Switching to the slower speed would allow the player to slow without gaining any more speed until they got to the specific walking speed.
Take this concept and apply it to a game where Sonic works at a Chilli Dog Delivery Service and has to deliver all across the planet
Rank system would be disguised customer ratings online.
can somebody make this ? Please, anybody, i want to play this.
I'm actually fine with most every main series Sonic game but what u just described sounds like heaven
he described Sonic in a 3d space...
Sonic's personality in the OVA was perfect.
I don't think reversing Sonics design to the 'classic' look is a good approach. Things need to evolve and trying to bring back something old isn't ideal, for it stumps progress for the series, and that's no good.
Maybe I'm just really sick of the 'classic sonic' design. The modern design with the green eyes and the longer... everything is a much better and more appealing design, as it fits in very well with the current times we live in. Just my two cents.
Ninja Fart I agree with your opinion I personally prefer the modern sonic design over classic Sonic desgin any day.
@Immanuel Ntim-Addae Hey I respect opinion, but to my at least the sonic's modern design is more appealing and brings out sonics character a lot than classic sonic do.
I mean they could just use Oshima's original style for the mainline 2D games and certain spin offs, while the 3D games would stick closer to Uekawa's style (although if I'm honest, I haven't really seen a game try to capture that style since 06. Since then Sonic's image has been overly softened and cute-sified in fear of that one game's reception).
But yeah I see the appeal of both artist's style, and I can see they both have the essence of Sonic down, just in different art styles.
@Immanuel Ntim-Addae I know, SEGA is really mismanaged.
But I'm just saying we can have the best of both worlds, if SEGA and Sonic Team are willing to see it through.
sonic utopia is something i think should be an inspiration for the series
You predicted the future because sonic frontiers is open world and sonic utopia is open world too so you predicted the future
@@jasmirryan3101Open zone* 🤓
And about redesign. Don't forget about the most important part that Sonic needs to have...
Blue Arms
Or How about we giving him and His male friends some fucking clothes. Surprised they still an E rated series. LOL!
Is that Alice as your icon?
Let's not forget Sports tape
SeboTrzyDe3D
SeboTrzyDe3D
How to fix Sonic? Simple. Get rid of Izuka and bring people who ACTUALLY cares about Sonic. We need either a Unleashed type game without the Werehog or Adventure type game with Silver included.
Why does silver need to be in
@@Mr.06_ I'd assume the same reason any character would be included, because they're a piece of the world that many people love
I like the werehog gameplay, actually, a lot.
BUt izuka actually cares about sonic though.
@@derpydino17 lol really?
I think a fresh look at the Sonic Adventure's multiple gameplay style focus would be very nice, sure the originals have aged, but so have a lot of games from that time, and I think a fresh take should really help iron out the kinks in the formula.
Speedy rollercoaster to sonic, 3d platforming mario 64 (not exactly collect a ton) style for tails and exploratory hunting for knuckles?
I find it funny how this video mentions "problems" about 3D games taking control away from the player for some spectacle when the Classic games did the exact same thing. The chemical pipelines in Sonic 2's Chemical Plant Zone and the Ring Shooters from S3&K's Death Egg Zone are two examples.
Also, in my opinion, the core aspect of a Sonic game's gameplay isn't raw speed, but *momentum*. It's all about your ability to perfect your flow throughout the level, with the speedy sections and other things being your reward for good platforming. Think of it as being less of a "mach 5 speedfest" and more of a "speedrunning through Kaizo Mario" type thing. There's some spectacle in there, too, because Sonic is just as much about showing off as he is about going fast. In my opinion, the Boost style of gameplay railroads the player way too much and removes a lot of the challenge while seriously dumbing down the level design. I honestly think the Adventure games did 3D Sonic gameplay right and are a good blueprint to go off of and expand from there. Just because it doesn't replicate every single thing from the 2D games doesn't mean it's bad; Super Mario 64 didn't faithfully replicate 2D Mario gameplay at all, and yet it still gets almost unanimous praise to this day. The point is, the Adventure games replicate the meat of Sonic design - the momentum-based gameplay, the open environments, and the sense of exploration/finding secrets - quite well overall while still making it work in a 3D space.
i was thinking of maybe using the idea blaze gave to make something a long the lines of the adventure level designe with bursts of unleashed. some wide corridors with diferent paths and obstacles that lead to open areas with hidden secreats and platforming chalenges. maybe the corridors split path the same way unleashed did with quick drifts and awarenes of homming attack chains near that lead to other paths, and sometimes like classic games did with the usage of momentum to get to new heights.
With your sticky note at the end about Sonic's mouth in 3D, I think having it center looks even worse, just look at Sonic '06. Though Sonic Boom seems to handle it ok, maybe it should just be wider in 3D.
I think half the reason his mouth looks bad in '06 is because it's poorly animated, which would make anything look like a crazy frankenstein monster.
He was overall dead faced in that game, but I think making his mouth center (With his main design) just looks odd (may be I'm just used it how it normally is) but there is not much space under his nose for the mouth.
larryinc64 Fair.
it looks kind of off putting in boom tbh, in 06 it was also bad, but it seemed more like an animal's mouth animation strangely so i dont get bothered by it a lot. though the side mouth in 3d games still looks pretty bad because mouths are usually centered. i think sonics mouth should instead move around depending on the angle we see him from or his expression, kind of like a 2D cartoon character.
like if we see him from the side, he should have a side mouth, not really done in the way the modern games do it, his mouth just looks off, but the pre rendered opening cutscene in sonic adventure where he does that grin from all the artwork is the right direction, or if we see sonic tilting his head upward, we have enough room for his mouth to be placed in the center.
Please choose manual or automatic Sonic.
Gentlemen, start your Sonics
Try to go easy on the chili dogs!
You've got plenty of boost!
Check your position.
I had no idea if this could actually work, but a solution i have for Sonic 3D controls is to have the controls gradually become less sensitive according to your speed, and if you do need that extra sensitivity in a corner or another, press the drift button!
That’s exactly what I was thinking to, because realistically things going at the speeds that sonic reaches wouldn’t be able to turn as fast. For example, a cheetah can’t make sharp turns when it’s going full speed and cars can’t make sharp turns while going 80 mph because at that point the car will swerve and lose control. I think, giving him an accelerate button is pretty needless because sonics turning sensitivity can just adapt to his acceleration, if anything, I think, giving him a walk button would be better as sonic going slower would be directly under the players control.
On top of that, maybe give Sonic a limited-usage slow-motion button when he’s fast enough so the player can make critical decisions in tight spots (kind of like GTA 5 when you drive as Franklin).
I agree with all of this! Except for two things. One, I would slightly redesign Sonic. Stick to the base Modern Design of Colors and Generations, but shrink his limbs. Not down to Classic Sonic length, but rather to the length of Sonic Adventure 1. Two, rather than giving Sonic driving controls, keep his regular controls for the most part, but have the responsiveness rely on Sonic’s speed. Say you start to walk from a standstill. You have Sonic ‘06 level responsiveness. Maybe a little looser though. When at top flat level speed, you have Heroes style responsiveness. At absolute max speed, you can tap into the driving controls a little, but you still need to hold forward to maintain top speed. Pushing left or right will act as if you let go of the stick and just adjusts your direction and back will of course brake. Lost World had a run button, and that was kinda dumb. Also, you didn’t talk about narrative issues. Yes, I know a compelling game is more important than a compelling story, but it should be addressed.
I agree that Adventure Sonic is by far the better Modern Sonic
I assume you mean Sonic Runners proportions. It shortened Sonic a bit, but not into classic proportions
@@cookieblobber Oh. Yeah, that! I didn't even realize that that game even did that, but yeah, it's perfect! I'd say his limbs are pretty much like SA1's model (the dreamcast version). Maybe make Sonic's arms slightly longer tho.
Great video. I remember seeing that "Dear Sega" video a while ago and it was just completely misguided. Sadly, Sonic has become such a joke that no one outside of some diehard fans really have a clue about what's good and bad about Sonic.
I think the new Sonic Mania game that was just announced looks like a ton of fun and I'm very excited to play it... but in the end it's not evolving the series or anything. It looks like Sega is playing it safe right now.
Also excited for Mania. The game caters to the genesis days of Sonic, which we've (kind of?) been lacking. Like what they tried to do with Sonic 4. I think the series as a whole will evolve if Sonic Mania is successful. If it is successful, we'll likely be seeing more games in the future, like what we would call Sonic 5, Sonic 6, 7 etc.
but I'm really interested in Sonic Adventure 2017
See them try to innovative again and there will be hordes of fans crying once more and that's just not the sonic franchise.
Haruhi Suzumiya it's not adventure 2017 its Project 2017 js
It'll have been 4 years this year, but quite frankly I'm still amazed just how smart and creative this video is. I'd love to see more videos like this, if nothing else to explore other things you didn't touch on like level design and story.
Thinking it over, I don't know how many of these kinds of videos I'd have in me. This was a gigantic undertaking, requiring so many sources, and footage to be captured, and something like over 100 drawings. I think about this video from time to time, because there's more to say, and some of my views have chanced since I produced this, but this was a big release of energy that I don't know if I've charged back up yet, even now. That being said, you probably know I've talked about at least one other video that could be almost as big as this, and it's kind of been looming for a few years now (the NiGHTS video). So maybe something of similar scope will see release some day yet again.
Thinking about it even more, I guess the other thing preventing me from following up on this video is the simple fact that I put forth ideas here, but ideas by themselves are kind of useless. Everyone has ideas. And part of the reason I have "more to say" is because my ideas have changed -- without getting down in the trenches and actually building a game, you'll never really know what works or not. There is no better trial by fire for this kind of stuff than to actually do it. But that means learning Unity and taking weeks, months, maybe even years hammering out a prototype. Which... won't happen any time soon.
BlazeHedgehog oof man
@@BlazeHedgehog to be honest since i watched this first time i keepet thinking about it a lot, and i'm currently learning C# and unity to see if i can replicate the idea in a working tech demo.
I don't know of it's just me, but the idea of plying sonic like a racing game doesn't feel right with me. I have no way to describe why, it just sounds like an awkward concept.
It's basically what Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Generations already are, just with a better fidelity of control so you can properly manage your speed.
BlazeHedgehog
Ah, ok. that helps! Thank You for the response and keep up the fantastic work!
i love unleashed and generations, if they just tightened up his moves (looking at you corner turn slide thing) than i feel we would be on the right track, i feel sonic needs a slower platformer speed, a run button, and then a boosting mechanic, or something of the sort. i loved unleashed though XD it was cool to learn the wearhog and have nifty combat, but it created this duality of slow platforming combat, vs the high speed nature which felt in alot of ways natural for who sonic is.
VoltaireSurge
Wow! An Unleashed supporter! I thought we were few and far in between to the point of little existence!
Tyler Nelson haha yeah i have noticed that. XD i mean its not perfect but it sure as hell made sonic the true speedster they had toted him as originally
These comments are so infuriatingly stupid. Talking as if lost world already does this and boosting is already a thing when this is nothing like lost word and isn't the same as the boost mechanic.
Has nobody played a car game before? The longer you hold down the accelerator button, the faster you go. Cars don't have 2 speeds; fast or slow, they get faster and faster the more you hold down the button. The faster you go, the more likely you are to hit something or mess up, but thats the challenge.
How can people not see this.
Yung Wun I completely agree. I've always wondered how the All Stars Racing Stages would play if it was a platformer with these car controls
It's fascinating how despite this video's age, it's not only still relevant in the current age of Sonic, but I find myself continually coming back to it for the sake of reference.
While my own opinions on the topic have diverged over time, and I no longer agree with exactly every idea presented, there is still _plenty_ in this video that I have essentially used as blueprints in developing my own ideas of how I would create a Sonic game.
And for that, I cannot thank you enough.
If their gonna make another 3D sonic game NO 2D AREAS JUST FULL 3D
To be honest, the game idea of Good Blood reminds me a lot of Ori and the Blind Forest.
How the gameplay works and the art style is...
Hmmmmm.......
I personally think the clock should keep going up because you have the decision to look at it as take your time, or how long it takes you to complete a level
How to fix Sonic the Hedgehog: finish making the game.
Let me guess; Sonic '06 and Rise of Lyric have you thinking all Sonic games are unfinished.
Perkilator Gaming Adventure is pretty unfinished as well. I'm pretty sure he talks in the video about how short the development time is for these games.
***** I wouldn't call it unfinished, as cheesy as it is.
Those games unfinished?
They're bloody jam packed action adventure games that play like nothing else, and require skill.
Yuji Naka complained before Lost World came out that Sonic games are becoming too easy now...that's why casuals liked Colours and Generations.
Sonic chronicalls the dark brother hood pretty much any bad game
I just came across this video thinking...
“Oh he’s just going to say everything in Sonic sucks, just make him Mario..”
But this video is absolutely brilliant! I absolutely agree with everything in this video. It fixes the problem of Sonic playing itself perfectly!
If a Sonic game existed like this, I’d play nothing else.
Sonic never had a "run" button until the boost in unleashed to generations, and the actual run button in lost world. I say that Sega should have sonic rely on momentum. Give him a max base speed, and allow him to move faster downhill, like in the original classic sonic trilogy.
Nice idea. However, I feel as if Sonic should be about momentum rather than speed, as that's what made the Classic games fun. However, when they tried the "run button" in SLW, it felt pretty okay to control, but could've been a lot better and, to put it shortly, your video fixes these problems, with instead of making it a run button, it's an accelerate button. I especially like the idea of Prototpye-esque parkour(?), as I always loved seeing Sonic run up mountains and smash through boulders in the Sonic CD intro. (And the OVA too, but he doesn't do much of that stuff there.)
Overall, I agree with (mostly) everything in your video. You have some pretty good ideas in your noggin. Kudos to you, Blaze.
I was thinking that the run button should only be able to be used for so long before sonic gets tired but his regular running is still fast like the adventure games let's say. I think there should be a healthy mix of speed and momentum in his games to give him a good flow
The truth is: We need a reboot with just one franchise:
Sonic Adventure, remaking the history
I agree with your opinion on Sonic's visual design. But your gameplay changes are leaving out key parts of the puzzle. Most people, say that Sonic games are all about speed. While this has been the case since Sonic Adventure 1, it wasn't always this way. Because back in the days of the Sega Genesis (or Mega Drive for the rest of the world), Sonic was all about skill mastery.
Specifically, mastery over jumping from platform to platform and exploring the stages. It was about learning the environment, being able to react to each new challenge, and generally overcoming every obstacle course the games threw at you. And by playing the games, and improving your skill, you would obtain speed, and absolutely tear your way through the game, having a blast in the process. Speed is not something you got for cheap thrills, it was something you were able to maintain as a reward for getting gud at the game.
So if one really wanted to fix Sonic, rather than focus on Sonic's speed, I believe that you should focus on expanding upon the platforming and exploration of stages. And if you do, the speed will come naturally. Also just make Sonic less analogue-sensitive the faster he goes, that too.
Christopher Metcalf yea like speed has never been a default- sonic is given momentum and speed is a reward for being good
@@ahit0me0403 Plus, there's the tiny problem that they did give Sonic a run button. In Lost World. And everyone hated it. Granted, just about every aspect of Lost World was a fucking mess, but honestly, in a game that relies on speed-based platforming and exploration, wouldn't it be a bit tiresome to have to hold down one button CONSTANTLY, on top of having to manage everything else you might find yourself needing to do in a 3D platform game?
ok so think of spyro charge with sonic utopia physics gameplay. this is what blaze might have been getting to
@@Canalbiruta I know, but people are already tired of the boost gameplay, which basically gives Sonic the Spyro charge. I'm trying to say that consistent pace and speed should be the reward for being good at the game. Plus, if you really want a Spyro charge-esqe ability, just use the spindash. It gives the player a short boost of speed, while taking away some of their control. That's what it's for.
@@christophermetcalf7540 i don't think you got the picture to be honest. spin dash is more like a quick start than a constant move and you can't keep it the same way a gas paddle would do it. also this idea blaze gave while leaning more towards the boost thing is not the boost formula at all. is more like 2 diferent control scheme switching between them when you press a button, this is why i compared to spyro, since spyro is that. boost is more about constant speed, while this gas pedal thing is about having precise platforming controls when slow while giving more movement at high speeds. boost is more like "press a button to get invencible, super fast and destroy enemies the same way super sonic did", while this would alow thoughtful gameplay since any enemy coming your way would have to be dealt with more planing than boost alow to. i can see even the spin working in a similar fashion as the classic games with this type of controls. you could press the action button to spin and release the gas button to let physics take controll of sonic. this controll scheme based with the physics of utopia would alow a totally diferent level designe than boost formula has be going for, since you would have precise controlls for open areas like sa1 had, and would still alow cinematic shit to have without the automation from unleashed and bits from sa1 and 2. since people already reacted the way they did to utopia i don't think anyone would react badly when playing something like this done right.
What if sonic team just made it so that the sensitivity is directly proportional to sonic's speed?
That'd be like how Adventure 1 did it. In a way.
sonic adventure be like:
we have controls that are sensitive enough and a good momentumcurve
sonic heroes be like:lets make that dude twice as fast and ruin everything with it.
and that is why that kind of gameplay never returned
I like your solutions, but I feel that a run button is kind of unneeded (Sonic Lost World proves this)
For me I think the most optimal fix to Sonic in a 3D environment would be to dynamically change his turn speed according to how fast he's running. This way Sonic is allowed to move at his fullest potential while not being too sensitive.
Yes, this does sacrifice horizontal momentum at high speed, but I feel this could be circumvented through lots of value tweaking and further mechanical implementations.
25:34 nah nah I will not stand for this slander against sonic and the black knight that game was the shit.
When i first saw thumbnail of this video, i thought "oh, another "it's impossible to make 3d Sonic game, make this game 2d shooter, like a moorhuhn, with a silent protagonist, who can`t even move, i will be great, i swear!"
But you did a really great points, focus of your video just nails it so good and mechanics you brought, are best I've ever seen in this type.
Thank you, BlazeHedgehog, this video is a best of it's kind.
(oh, and btw, sorry for my english, i'm not a native-speaker and, usually don't leave comments, but this video deserves every possible like and comment, for it's points, research and all the work, invested into it.)
Bro, this is genius. It’d be like normal 3D Sonic, but you’d be PLAYING the scripted sequences!!
Genesis sonic was pretty badass he didn't give a shit when Tails died multiple times infront of him. The new sonic is always making lame jokes and he isn't as pissed off like classic sonic.
In Sonic CD I swear Sonic was always pissed. The guy would jump off the screen if you kept him waiting for too long XD
How does being alright with your own friend dying make you a bad ass?
I guess Columbine's shooters were pretty bad ass too, the 90's sure was rad man...
even his sprite in sonic 1 looks pretty pissed
Honestly for the control problem I think it should change sensitivity depending on your speed
I can agree ith that
Yup
That's what I thought too
I think you got everything perfectly right
You just showed me the Sonic game I never knew I wanted. I'd love to see more of your ideas!
MUCH better than " Dear Sega" . Really smart ideas.
Sonic Team hire this man.
They could make it a kinda open world map in the game that you can explore once you unlocked the area in the storyline, like in Mirror's Edge Catalyst. Even the part where players set a route on the map to make a speed run challenge and have everyone try to beat the high score is really fitting in sonic games.
Isabella Chen, I like the direction you’re thinking but I think your suggestion is too extreme especially during this time. If Sonic Team were going to make an open world map at the state they were in right now, it would suck balls and be just as pointless as the open world map in ‘06. The team have gone so far off their platforming roots at this point that even with an open world map, in no doubt it would not be used that well and be just as empty as FFXV and have automation on it anyway.
Not even the open world map in Mirror’s Edge Catalyst was used the best it should’ve been. All it really is is a map you can practice on almost completely separate from the main story. It doesn’t help that the game tries to take you on their path the same as Sonic Team does nowadays. Open Worlds are made to explore more and have every aspect of the map used right? Not even Catalyst does that; you never use your knowledge of the open world to your advantage such as through a shortcut, a known trap, etc.
It’s better for Sonic to be a platformer again, as in one that doesn’t have as much restrictiveness and stiffness as the current games. And then maybe after they redefine 3D Sonic long enough without hiccups they can try something new.
I think a gas pedal like buttom should be just an option on the menu
because at least for me the gameplay doesn`t need something like making sonic progressively get lower sensetivity as he picks up speed making the controls to always adapt
also, something that should be cool is a system where the more rings you get means the faster you are
similar to the mobile game sonic forces: speed battle
where is not insanely overpowered but its still rewarding
Alternate Title: "[ASMR] Sensuously whispering ideas of how to fix Sonic the Hedgehog"
Easy to follow, very clearly explained and grounded in solid game design theory. Can't really ask for much better from a proposal. Excellent work. Keep it up!
i think that changing between racing and action game controls would be jarring an the conversion would be hard for the player to make it feel smooth on themselves, i think a much better approach is seeing as sonic team is able to measure speed, they could simply make it so that the faster sonic is going the less responsive the controls .
But Sonic games have been doing that for a while now. In my head, my run button idea is similar to the boost that was in six Sonic games already, just less overpowered.
@@BlazeHedgehog but the boost is an instant conversion that happens whenever you press the button as for your method which involves going over a certain thresh hold, this may sneak up on some players who will swap to the racing controls and lose control for a sec and die, now don't get me wrong i love the idea i just think it'd be very jarring constantly swapping between racing and action controls(says the guy whose favourite sonic game is unleashed wii).
Maybe I explained it poorly, then. Also, how I picture it in my mind has changed a bit over the years, too.
@@BlazeHedgehog you explained it fine
again i love the idea i'ts just the conversion i'm worried about.
*looks at title* no, how do we fix the *_fanbase?_*
You don't? And you can't? Everybody's weird on the internet. If you think Sonic fans are special in this regard, you're only selectively looking at the issue.
BlazeHedgehog haha no I know it’s not just sonic fans, I was just making a little joke about the people in the fanbase that are awful and rude and stuff
I guess, yeah, but Sonic fans get a disproportionately larger amount of trouble from people and they don't always deserve it.
BlazeHedgehog I agree, and it’s sad, once one person does something bad, almost everyone is generalized to be bad in the fandom which is something that other fandoms experience but yeah, I completely agree
A good 2D-to-3D transition is taking the basic concept and tweaking it as little as possible before it works well in 3D. Your recommendation is basically turning 3D Sonic into the storybook series and the Dash trilogy.
While I agree with most of these points, I feel like there needs to be momentum physics too. To compensate for this, running down slopes with the acceleration button being held would make him reach his whatever top speed faster and vice-versa for going up hills. There also needs to be a button where you can just roll like in the Genesis titles. At the same time, rolling physics work like how the running down slopes thing would, except that he can go faster, even to the point where it beats the Spin-dash.
Also to add on to Sonic's control, you are allowed to move in any 360 directions however you want. But when you started going fast, there are two options:
1. Turn widely but retain most of his speed.
OR
2. Make tighter turns but lose your speed.
But there is a way to be able to make tight turns and retain most of your speed, and that's where drifting comes in.
i can not stress this enough
PROJECT HERO
That's not a game yet.
BlazeHedgehog it doesn’t matter when it’s a framework and it already plays better and is more faithful to sonic than anything that sega has put out in the last decade lol
All this video really showed me is that everyone else has already secretly made a true 3D Sonic game, except for Sonic Team themselves.
Simple. Bring back the adventure gameplay, but let it exist beside the classic and boost gameplay. These pillars don't have to interfere with one another and can evolve with each game.
Thats an awful idea. Why not just consildate all of these styles into one?
Because different fans prefer different styles, and combining them would ruin it for everyone.
the boost can work in an adventure style gameplay, look at sonic GDK. But classic and modern should be kept separate
OMG.. I've been saying this for the longest time. I was actually planning on animating a video on the driving mechanics as well. My mind is blown that you actually made this first.
the mechanics needs to be also organic so I don't feel like I'm driving a car...
3 years later: Sega releases a realistic sonic that exactly looks like the game blood game droid one he drew, whatever his name is..
God, a prototype/hulk style open world sonic game would actually make no nut November impossible.
As a life long sonic fan this is so refreshing. Thank you. I love mario and sonic equally honestly usually you love sonic and sega or Nintendo and Mario but they both have they're own merits, and the both deserve to live out they're gaming endeavors for as long as each other. Just because one company has had more success than its old rival now friends doesn't and shouldn't take anything away from the iconic character. And personally I'd love them to come together like they do with the Olympic series, but instead of sega making the game and Nintendo publishing it I'd love to see Nintendo help get sonic back on his feet with a collaborative effort, they've done it before and they should do it again. I dunno they'll never do that but I can dream.
Gameplay : Fast
Story : Simple
Sonic : Iconic
Best recipe for a Sonic game in my opinion
22:49 what game is that
@@revolution4122 I have no idea :/
I am forcibly removed from SEGA Offices.
Hotel:Trivagno
I liked the darker undertones of stories in the Dreamcast era, Sega misread that type of story with Forces and went full on, goofy edge. Leave the 90's charm to Classic Sonic from Mania onwards, and take 3D Sonic back to the somewhat Archie-style stories. The story shouldn't try hard to be dark, or make that a selling point. It's the same Sonic you know and love, with more mature themes that older players can unravel and dig waay too deep into.
The only things I would add, are the spindash, homing attack, and extra character stories like Tails and Knuckles.
Alium 61 You just mean the sonic adventure games?
I watched this video years ago and thought it was pretty cool. But now that I'm watching it again for nostalgic reasons, I realized that the ideas you mentioned come pretty close to how Sonic controls in Sonic Frontiers. The boost no longer defeats enemies on contact, and the Final Horizons update even added a spin dash button that acts similar to how you described it in this video. Funny how these things tend to work out. I don't think the controls are perfect in Frontiers, but with some tweaking, it might make a good foundation for the next Sonic game.
I was about to say that! I guess sega saw this…
also great idea! but there should also be an automatic sensitivity changer that changes based on what speed sonic is going, fast it lowers, slow it highers and everything in between
I think Sonic Utopia is the answer
I mean it uses momentum like the classic games but implements it with 3D
Meh project hero is better
Or Sonic GT
Sonic Islands
@HerooftheNexus 1992 Why not have an expansive, mostly open world, which includes all or many of the locales shown in previous games, and then have missions through these areas? That way, there is a lot of room for players to figure out the fastest, coolest way through a level.
The level design of Hill Top Zone from Sonic GT is much better. It does an amazing job at implementing the Classic Sonic level design into 3d, with alternate paths and level design that works with Sonic's momentum and speed. I find myself constantly replaying that one level to find the best route and fastest speed, because it's fun dammit.
Never thought I'd agree with giving Sonic a run button, but this is really interesting!
10:45 Why not just have a variable sensitivity with respect to Sonic's speed. I mean they do have a spedometer for Sonic, why not attach that to how he controls?
This sounds like the best Sonic game we'll never get to play. It's a very cool concept and inspires a lot of ideas for creativity within the level design and interactive elements like the pole, it'd be great to see something like this come to fruition.
I think the sa1 Dreamcast model is perfect for Sonic it’s the best mix of classic and modern
Yes. This and the SA2 model are some of my favorites. Although I wouldn’t be mad if they used Unleashed Sonic.
I wouldn't call myself a sonic fan but I fucking love this video and thank you for the pointing out how defeatist the "Sonic can't work in 3d" attitude is.
>I fucking this video
Woah.
Unshaved Malevolence thanks for fixing a 3 month old typo
I guess the 3 month typo was just replaced with another for a couple weeks.
So basically boost gameplay with car steering, fair enough.
See, you get it.
it sucks that everything in this video still stands, it pre dates forces and nothing changed
So controls: Easy! Just make the sensitivity variable, with Sonic being less control-sensitive the faster he goes.
If it was that easy, why hasn't anyone ever gotten it right?
BlazeHedgehog huh fair point. but has anyone tryd that yet
That guy from the original video scrap Sonic's personality!? That's my favourite part of Sonic! The Spider-Man like personality is why I love the characters so much
problem with sonic isnt sonic, its sega. they dont have to change anything about him besides the people they put in charge of developing his games. THEY are the ones who need a reboot.
Sonic Team needs to hire you!
lol
No
The entirety of sonic team needs to be fucking fired
@@acceleratedbyrd8550At this this point that's the only good idea. They have no good ideas.
@@Skylancer727 sadly
@@acceleratedbyrd8550 in the nearly 10 years since Generation came out we've got nothing really of substance from them. Hell it took them 4 years to make Forces. It took only half the time for a team of 10 people to rebuild the Unleashed day stages in Generations. That's sad. In that 10 year period they only made Lost World, a few mobile games, and Forces. Everything else was outsourced. Does anyone know what they are doing with this franchise?
This is the exact fucking idea I had.
I just couldn't reconcile the platforming with racing controls.
You didn't really mention how hard the game would be. A large question with Sonic seems to be _level mastery and challenge VS speeding with relative ease._ Creating a good challenge in Sonic is pretty hard.
(edited out a typos)
Well how you make that challenge is also an issue that Sonic has struggled with. In Unleashed it was mainly by just having pits to your death everywhere. In Unleashed on Wii and PS2 it was based on messing up your times and score, Generations was similar as did Colors, and Forces just didn't have any challenge.
@@Skylancer727 Thanks for the info :) The score based difficulty probably works fine
@@metawarp7446 yeah personally I don't make my own roms as they are circulated enough to not really require building them yourself, but if legality matters on the personal level you might as well, though difficulty obviously goes up in things that use non-standard storage such as DS, 3DS, and the gameboys. Really only easy on things such as PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Xbox, 360, PS3, and Wii U and Switch due to SD cards. Though discs for Wii U could be tricky as Nintendo made a proprietary disc for it (noticeable by the lack of edges on the circumference). The only console you. Basically have to is 360 as nobody wanted to male emulators for it for the longest times due to Microsoft giving shit to the emulator world for "perpetuating piracy", plus without that many major games from it not on PC many just didn't care. It only really got back up again about 2 years ago as people wanting to play games from the 2007-2012 era otherwise had to deal with the PS3 emulator which runs terribly because the PS3 design was unorthodox.
But as a whole, if I don't have to make a rom I just won't. It's just easier to rip it online even if I have it on a shelf collecting dust. There will always be tons of sources to get them from especially with the rise in torrents and cloud storage. Hell half the time you will get better results this way as you can get specific DLC and updates on demand. Though if you want your old save you'll still have to work for it. If you want to play Splatoon or Mario Kart 8 on Cemu online you'll have to rip your Nintendo account code and save data.
i think level designe could mix both boos and classic games in dificulty. you have to memorize the best paths to get extra rewards and good ranks, but bad paths still lets you finish while giving enough obstacles like spikes and holes.
4:53 lmao i take Sportstape Sonic and Buff Knuckles over this any day of the week.
I'm going to make this, arcade-racing sonic game. or at least a start.
Sega/Sonic Team REALLY needs to see this video.. what they’ve done with Forces is a HUGE step back for the series. Modern Sonic needs to be reinvented and reworked control wise and design wise. We need a fresh new sonic game.
i mean the problems in forces is what we always had with sonic ....i mean the camera is better which is a step forword and so are the graphics ...but the creavity of the levels gameplay and how sonic controls is a step back...and even though they are the basic and only problems for the gameplay ( not counting the problems for the story and everything else)...it's sad that that;s the most imported part of a game
I mean like really share this with sega on face book or something
you could do this or....
you could make mania 2
No but seriously good video, I agree with everything except completely getting rid of boost pads, I think instead of getting rid of all MANDATORY boost pads meaning all boost pad will be on ramps that offer risker but faster paths, I think we need more of the higher path is the better but riskier path from 2d games in the 3d ones.
I think a game a little like Sonic Utopia but a little more linear is what would be perfect.
They should make the controls less sensitive the faster Sonic goes, and the slower he goes, the more sensitive controls are.
There’s a fan game called Sonic Revert that perfectly encapsulates this idea of a sonic that controls exactly like this. It’s not perfectly fine tuned, but it is incredibly fun to just toy around with the controls.
This video was very good! I really love your ideas you have for the Sonic Series.
What a great video. I'm really taken with your observation about the problem with moving Sonic using exclusively the analogue stick in particular.
Sonic Colors, Lost World, and Generations were all pretty good.
unleashed was too!
+VoltaireSurge No.
Unshaved Malevolence yes it was.
Generations was literally a rehash, and it was short as hell. Barely counts.
TheSonOfAGunFrom410 its called a celebration game for a reason. it didnt have to be long. plus on pc people are able to remake a bunch of old sonic levels and port them in
i think that sonic design would be perfect fr a sonic cameo in adventure time.
Its all about the kids. Still. My best friends nephews love pokemon and sonic. They stopped me dead in my tracks to show me sonic ova like id never seen it. I remember renting the vhs
Sonic games should stop the emphasis on speed and give the player the need to explore vast open levels. In Sonic Adventure 2, my favourite level is the 3D Green Hill remake. Why ? Because I like exploration and platforming. Sonic should take a page from Mario and Rayman, both series that never forgot that the principal appeal of a platformer should be the fun to move around through obstacles and the fun of exploring. Rayman 2 The Great Escape and Super Mario 64 / Sunshine are some of the best platformers of all times.
Sonic games soul is speed,retire this factor will be against the main element of the franchise