Why ProJared is WRONG About Sonic Adventure 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2018
- PATREON ►: / rubyofblue
TWITCH ►: / ruby_of_blue
DISCORD ►: / discord
TWITTER ►: / rubyofblue
DEVIANTART ►: rubyofblue.deviantart.com
A video responding to ProJared's review of Sonic Adventure 2 and rebutting his arguments which I think were very flawed and poorly reasoned. Despite how snarky I might get, I really don't hate ProJared and throwing hate at him is not my intention.
SPECIAL THANKS TO PATRONS:
DarkRedNight004
Talmanaze
Doublajynxx
Levin
Clover Jade
The Phoenix Quill Literature
XtremetuberVII
Lukas
Korban22
GreenZangoose28
Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.
#sonicadventure2 #projared #sonicthehedgehog - เกม
![[MIRRORED] LISA - ROCKSTAR 🎸 MV version #LISA #BLACKPINK #ROCKSTAR](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-U58DuCCtZk/mqdefault.jpg)
People are getting really hung up on the "get gud" thing so here: My argument wasn't "get gud and you'll like it more". My argument was, if you're going into a game with a preconceived bias against it, any difficulties or failures you have are going to make your experience with it much worse. If you're going into the hunting stages with the mindset of "just let me get back to the speed stages" then any obstacles that keep you from doing that are going to be perceived as "annoying" or "bad".
Though let's not act like your time with a game isn't generally going to be more enjoyable if you're succeeding rather than failing. If someone is unwilling to improve at a game because they've already preemptively written it off in their head, or think they should automatically be good at it, then yes, they would be blaming the game for their own mistakes. And for a video reviewer who reaches millions of people and affects public perceptions of games like these, I expect better.
Honestly projared video was one of the most condescending videos I've ever seen, and I've seen Suzy Lu, dspgaming, and matpat
How Projared got any amount of a following amazes me. To me he lost credibility when he took the mainstream approach of bashing Final Fantasy 7 because of the fact its mainstream and popular, (see the irony there)? When he stated the extended universe "ruined clouds character," instead of saying the objectively correct statement, "gave his character arc continuity from crisis core all the way to advent children," makes me think he never actually played these games or sat down to really look deeper into them.
lmao
@@DarkLordofTheRizz No, he's right. The extended universe did ruin Cloud. When was the last time you played FF7? I finished it again a week ago. Yes, the game has serious moments, but Cloud is also really funny in that game (and I'm not just talking about optional sections where you can make him act funny as one of your choices - I mean scripted, no player input sections). His monotone voice and sulking demeanor in Crisis Core and Advent Children make him very boring and annoying to watch. I think he smiles one time in Advent Children. I'll even bet money that Cloud won't strike a single pose in the Remake. SEs idea of Cloud is a brooding loner now. They've sucked all the fun out of his character.
@@cowboybbp1 What the fuck? I dont think you played final fantasy 7 at all in your life. He's only ever funny in a super awkward way, not Haha funny. Throughout most of the main game he's arrogant, cocky, and a flat out jerk to people kind of angsty too. Plus we're talking about a cloud that just got his memories back, is dealing with the guilt he has of the death of Zack and Aeris, when he had no time to in 7 since there was a giant meteor looming over his head. In advent children he's trying to not only come to terms with his guilt, but is trying to deal with his own identity, instead of simply being in the shadow of Zack, and a failed genetically engineered sephiroth.
Shadow: “I will grant you one wish”
12 year old me: “omg he’s gonna help Eggman take over the world”
Projared: “omg he has genie powers!”
Yeah, how the fuck can someone think that Shadow has genie powers?
And even as a joke, it's really bad, because it makes YOU sounding like an idiot.
Fucking thank you LOL I too, don't understand why Jared thought that since it was pretty clear that Shadow's offer was clearly meant as him helping Eggman out with his plan for world domination.
People who claim to be smart are often too literal. They don't have any common sense. 😂
@@decadentgamer3108 I don’t understand how you don’t realize that’s a joke
If it's a joke, it's not funny. It just showed he's willing to act dumb and insult viewers' intelligence. You know what would make that funny? A Boke and Tsukkomi routine where a straight man slaps him hard for not understanding simple English.
It's also funny when Jared said "speedrunning these stages are impossible" when people speedrun Minecraft, which is the epidemy of RNG.
epitome*
@@littlemoth4956 I used "epidemy" because the RNG in Minecraft is so bad that there has been countless of cheating scandals because top players wanted to bypass or manipulate the RNG. Epitome is a positive term.
I mean, it is possible, it’s just heavily reliant on both memorization and luck. You practically need to replay the level over and over again just for the ideal emerald spawns
@@jimmy3608 "you need to replay the level over and over again"
That is literally every grind session of any speedrun.
@@jimmy3608 Isn't that the point of speed running a game? Memorization?
I'm not here from the pro Jared controversy,
I'm here for my love of the SA Games.
I really disliked that people used that as a gateaway argument against him especially after it turned out wrong, people were exposed for believing lies told by others.
@@M3rtyville Agree, even though I have some respect for him after managing to get out of that whole situation they orchestrated against him, I never really cared about watching his videos before or after the controversy, and after watching this video, honestly, I think I don't feel inclined to listen to any of his opinions on anything (I'm far beyond my "believing whatever someone says because they're some big name internet celebrity and nothing else" phase to care, especially if that's the criteria he's working with), but it's really petty to invalidate someone's opinion because they did something wrong instead of actually discussing what he said; all you do is stoop to his level when it comes to critical analysis.
@@inendlesspain4724
He actually does some good videos. Especially his Final Fantasy series.
He just ended up producing a meh take. Literally something Ruby or any critic will eventually face.
yeah same
I didn't even know he had a controversy
I admit I never played SA2 and my perception of this game was skewer by his review BUT NOW I want to give SA2 a proper chance. So thank you
@@AdumYT Sonic Adventure 1+2 makes you realize why everyone says the rest of the 3D sonic games aren't good lol. Because we *know* sega can do better and are really missing it.
@@AdumYT I swear the mainstream media makes fun of this franchise. Like, the fucking impersonations of Sonic's voice is just an insult.... Makes people think the series is dog shit, when love and passion is in this fanbase, and series (Up until Forces, anyway)
if you've played it then what do think about it.
Mistake is to listen to reviewers. You should play it, then refute what they say. And see if they can handle it.
I would like to give you my opinion on the game, but my opinion is really biased since I've never played any of the boost games.
Everybody who's good. knows the knuckles and rouge stages are the best way to get chao upgrades.
That's my main resources to get Chao upgrades, lol. Especially in Chao Boxes, Death Chamber, and Egg Quarters for the animals.
Quick Edit since I've learned some things for Animals in Knuckles and Rouge stages: and Dry Lagoon, Wild Canyon, and Pumpkin Hill.
And Mech Stages are the best for getting Chaos Drives.
Death Chamber is so hard
Nah, I usually did the Mech stages.
tails and eggman stages are great for the chaodrives, I barely used the animals idk why, I do love the dragon animal tho its dope
"Nobody likes the treasure hunting stages"
Meanwhile, they're my most favorite stages in the whole damn game.
Jared: "NOBODY likes the treasure hunting stages right guys?
(Well actually I)- anyway moving on!"
@@nickb6425 Right? How wrong I must be for loving those stages (sarcasm).
While they are my least fav in the game the treasure hunting stages have consistently good music and the earlier ones were consistently fun (I only really didnt like fhe pyramid/space levels ... also the god damned times vault) overall they were fun and a good way to get dem critters (eggman.......)
Corey from Oneyplays said something similar. Him and Jared both are ignorant as shit.
@@megaman15ish yeah because not liking something for having different tastes is “ignorant”
Anyone else notice that despite Jared saying that he's reviewing the GameCube version, you see Playstation buttons during gameplay? It may not seem like anything big, but it's kinda distracting
Kinda like cheating on his wife, distracting ;-)
Cinos the Dense potato *O O F*
He’s too distracted at watching child exportation rather doing properly right port.
Not to mention the GameCube version is better.while not by much it’s still better, and he still lied
Right?? And at one point he brings up a flaw with the DREAMCAST controller...a flaw that was no doubt put out with the game cubes controller...STAY CONSISTENT
When ruby of blue demonstrated getting A ranks with hints, you know that he has a point when the level he used to prove his point was mad space, of all levels.
Oof.
If Mad Space can be A ranked with hints, all stages can be done.
Considering how that takes tremendous amounts of practice and memorization in order for that to even be possible to begin with, I don’t really agree with him anyways. It’s just trial and error at that point.
@Linker101 perhaps trial and error is the wrong word to use. How about completely luck based. Either the game decides to give you good emerald positions and let you finish fast, or it doesn’t and forces you to spend 15 minutes in a stage. I’d tolerate them if the stages were small like Wild Canyon.
Either way, there’s no skill in the emerald hunting stages (at least for stages 1 and 4 if it’s not wild canyon or Egg quarters).
@Linker101 that’s assuming the level design and shard locations (more specifically, the order the radar wants you to go in) even allow you to move around quickly to begin with in time. While that definitely applies to wild canyon and egg quarters since those are so small that maneuvering around them and getting the emeralds in time is skill based (I would say dry lagoon since it’s also small, but the turtle riding thing makes it less consistent than wild canyon and death chamber), that’s impossible to do consistently for huge stages like mad space and meteor herd, and stages with so many rooms like Aquatic mines and Death Chamber. Honestly, I don’t like the treasure hunting stages because of both the nerfed radar and so many stages being huge/filled with rooms that don’t interconnect well. Take away one of those 2 problems, and I have little doubt that I’d enjoy these more than SA1’s stages.
Gonna say it, the Adventure series have more effort put into it than the recent games, and I'd love an N.Sane Trilogy style remaster for both Adventure games to show that they can still work
I love Unleashed
Colours I honestly don't like as much as everyone else does, it's so boring to me
Generations I like a lot but there's stuff I wish could be improved
I really like Lost World's Gameplay but the story sucks
Forces is the most "on autopilot" I ever saw in a Sonic game, it's like Sonic Team were just drained and exaughted that year
Rick & Morty is overrated
RiderNexus But they CANT still work. Everything the games did ok,other games have done better. Even if they got remasters (which won't happen) all of the objectively bad problems will persist.
ikagura k
Yep, this serie shouldn't be canon and Sega would rather remaster the classic serie with the Mania treatement
I never interpreted Shadow's line about granting Robotnik a wish as a declaration to the player that he has magical wish-granting powers. To me it always seemed like he was just expressing gratitude for being released in a snarky manner. You know, exactly like you'd expect from a dark version of Sonic.
That's because you actually understand what's in front of you.
@@ChiefMedicPururu I'm sure Jared did, too. It was an obvious joke.
@@steventylerrocks8382 A very mediocre one.
@@ChiefMedicPururu He also worded his joke like a criticism and Jared tends to misrepresent the story a lot.
@@megapokesonicx exactly, it makes him come off as an idiot too. “This is never brought up again by the way” what the thing that isn’t a thing?
When you find a comment from 4 months ago that isn’t about the projared scandel
@ so you forgive him for what he done? Seriously?
@Austin's Games i didnt know he made a video just to make people get back on his side out of desperation
@@BlueflagAlpha Fuck off echochamber bitch. Heidi abused him
@@thatoneguy3436 do you have to be rude at me? Dumbass
@@BlueflagAlpha He didn't make that video out of "desperation" numbnuts, his lawyer told him it was okay to present factual evidence.
Glad to see I’m not the only one to come to the conclusion that Shadows super form faltered due to his inexperience compared to Sonic, who has had multiple opportunities to practice and prefect his control of his super form.
I honestly took it as Shadow running out of rings because being frank, Sonic mastered it on his first try in Sonic the Hedgehog 2, so I see no reason Shadow shouldn’t be able to do the same.
Either way, while I have several problems with this game’s writing, this isn’t one of them.
@@Mojo1356 also apparently Shadow should be older then Sonic as well lol.
@@TheCommanderTaco he is older than Sonic. By a lot.
@@Mojo1356 but he was frozen for decades wasn’t he??
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 still technically older than Sonic.
I love that The Sonic Movie allowed more and more people to find these types of videos from content creators that actually LIKE the franchise
This was full of good points. I love SA2 and would love a genuine sequel
You already got one...
Sonic 06.
@@godofwar234regi5 no
@@godofwar234regi5 It's not SA3,it hasn't been officially called sa3
@@AutisticTransbian04 oh poor baby
@@El_Andru wah wah wah,why don't you give me a bottle while you're at it
Jared may have cleared his name with the scandal, but he is still guilty of the terrible Sonic Adventure 2 review.
To me, he's not in the clear completely. But yeah, this review still sucks.
@@gamerlife4276 Because he's obsessed with nudes, and that he expected people to be honest on the internet. Besides it's just gross in general, a million things could go wrong and they did. He gave them the attention they wanted. He gave them ammo to shoot him down. And the fact he just glosses over the fact that the nudes were true to talk about why two people are lying. Like seriously, you don't feel any regret, that maybe you shouldn't have done it Jared, because it was a bad idea to begin with?
@@valen9835 That's a good point.
@@valen9835 That's a shitty point. Jared literally confessed to it being unhealthy. And it's pathetic that you act like you're on a moral high ground when you like Sonic.
@@ChiefMedicPururu Because you're a brainlet.
I am very glad people like the werehog
I wanted pure Sonic when Unleashed was announced, but actually playing the Werehog stages, they were fine enough. Not the best example of the genre it's inspired by, but harmless and often relaxing. I especially love the level design on the Wii version.
I would love to see a spin-off with the werehog.
Imagine giving someone else the keys to develop the game, that could be one of the best spin-offs of the series.
Sonic Unleashed is one of my favorite Sonic games, next to Sonic Adventure 2.
@@ccateni28 Imagine Platinum Games (Nier Automata, Bayonetta, Metal Gear Rising, Astral Chain, Wonderful 101, Vanquish) making a Sonic The Werehog game :D
I love the fluffy werehog. =)
People who play sa2 for chao garden know that the other stages can get you certain animals much more efficiently by choosing different stages. For example I get the pheonix fro mission street and the dragon fro wild canyon.
chao gardens gave a reson to play beyond score.
33:35 those people cheering for Sonic Adventure 3 just warms my heart.
Apparently there is gonna be a change in the Sonic series (If you don't know already) & it's also clear to know that some of the creators for the Sonic Mania and Sonic Team Racing overdrive shorts as well as Mania in general, are the same with JebTube at the end of the day (from what I gathered anyway) and there is also a rumour for SA3 as well but we'll see.
@@rageinternet9391 I've heard the producer of the Yakuza series wants to make a Sonic game, would be cool if that worked out. :p
But I hope you're right, the current team for 3D titles just doesn't do their research or do what fans ask for. D:
@@MsDapsy They kinda do what fans want them to do but due to the divided fanbase Sega can't impress everybody. The problem is that the largest of the fractions in the fanbase are the ones who like meta Sonic the most in which killed the identity that Sega wanted Sonic to be.
These are my people
Even if SA3 already came out in 2006?
Damn dude, this video was great. I love SA2 and I didn't really mind Projareds review of it much, but this is a really strong response not just to Jared but to the common criticisms of SA2 in general. I've always found a lot of those criticisms to be kinda bullshit, but I've never been able to put them into words the way you did here. I've said before in some of my own videos that I don't like when people criticize something from the standpoint of what they want it to be, rather than what the intention behind it actually was, so to see you break down the rationale behind certain narrative beats and game design choices was just the best. SA2 is still a wonderful game, and you've CERTAINLY done it justice with this video.
It's SomecallmeJohnny's fault for spreading the misinformed BS complaints against the games' treasure hunting stages and storyline. I love the guy and would love to be his friend but his views on story and alternate gameplay styles in Sonic couldn't be more wrong.
@@bunsmasterbunny I wouldn't say Johnny started the bandwagon, but he did played a part of it.
ProJared is an anachronism from the hyperbolic 'everything sucks' 2000s review era.. Glad to see his type fading away or evolving some actual nuance.
Snowfallinginthenight What misinformed complaints? Johnny’s seemed somewhat reasonable (at least compared to this video).
Oh wow wambu
I remember I thought SA2 was a bad game because of this review before I played it, but, after my ex got me into the series, and I realized how amazing it is.
I absolutely love SA2, and its one of my absolute favorite games ever, if not, my favorite game ever. He couldn't be more wrong. This is a great response, you gained a sub!
Cecelia IsAWeeb
Couldn't agree more, I love SA2, and it's better than most of the Modern Sonic games.
@@user-rr6rl1cr2t It's better than all of them.
@@bunsmasterbunny
Agreed.
SA2 is a great game indeed. One of my favourites.
@Eaxl Or, and heres a thought, your blind hatred is rearing it's nasty cranium again and you cant accept that sonic can be good, and you want SO BADLY for your skewed biases to be true. News flash darling, your not right on the sole basis that "lol sonic is bad because I said so, society says so"
“Their shoes are diferent”
THE GAME WHERE SONIC HAVE SOAP SHOES
Exactly, also those shoes look slightly closer to Shadow’s air shoes than his regular pair
I’ve seen someone try to use the transformation thing as a legitimate reason for confusing Shadow for Sonic. Problem: Sonic always has the same shoes when he transforms. The fact people couldn’t even recognize that makes them so stupid.
@@Mojo1356 but sonic can change shoes
@@shardsoftime0952 they all just go onto his regular shoes anyways.
Besides, Shadows shoes look like a different size altogether that wouldn’t even fit Sonic.
@Mojo1356 soap shoes are just like shadow’s shoes in shapes
I watched Jared’s review and agreed with him.
until I stopped being a sheep and played the game for myself, unlike the blind audience who can’t think for themselves
Best comment I've read all year
I stopped being a bandwagon follower after playing SA2 again for myself,and it's still as good as it was when I first played it
You're still agreeing w/ the majority opinion in this video. So by your own definition, you're still a sheep
I used to love SA2 (top 10 fav games). Disagreed with him. Replayed the game after seeing his review (first time in years)... He was right... Good game design is NOT this game's strength.
@@Th0tSlAyErIII I personally say it is
I feel like people use the excuse “it’s a joke” just to defend a very bad,poorly reasoned,and perception warping video,just because there is “comedy” in the video,dosen’t make the flaws go away
Modern GameGrumps in a nutshell. Don't even get me started on how they play 3D Zeldas.
@@krackers5061
making a joke about knuckles and rouge fucking, is not funny
@@rageinternet9391 But you know, "lol! Cartoon animals they SEX! with eachother! How fury and gay r sonicfans! Unlike U Arin Hanson!" seems to be the driving force of their fandom of pre-teens coming off of Nickolodeon and who've only played Mario Kart at their Grandma's house.
The people that make jokes about Sonic characters having sex seem to forget that Sonic and most of his friends are canonically teenagers or preteens under 18. Amy is 12, the jokes about her make me the most uncomfortable because of what the "jokes" about her usually are.
@@smflash Yeah, but those same people will twist it around and say "you Sonic fans are the ones drawing porn and writing fanfictions of these characters, we're just making fun of that" to absolve themselves.
Notes and thoughts:
I love how he points out "their shoes are different!" when, you know... you can change your shoes. AND SA2 HAPPENS TO BE THE ONLY GAME IN WHICH SONIC WEARS A DIFFERENT PAIR OF SHOES. THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS TO LOOK CLOSER TO SHADOW'S AIR SHOES THAN HIS REGULAR PAIR. The point is ridiculous either way, but this way it's double extra ridiculous with a side of stupid.
As I mentioned under your main SA2 video, I used to hate the hunting stages... but I was too stupid to ever use the hint boxes. Once I did, I beat them all in around five minutes each. It's also silly how he mentions the hint boxes decreasing your rank, which... they don't and why'd he care about the ranks anyway, it's not like they unlock something in the main game, they are there for the side-thingies, you can beat the main campaign while E-ranking every stage. Unless you're going for more content like the harder mission variations or stuff like that, there's no reason to give a damn about ranking.
(about the hunting stages) "It's not Sonic!" - oh, how I loathe this point. Keep in mind that up until Sonic Adventure, the Sonic series had eight 2D platformers ( S1-S2-S3&K-SCD, S1 8Bit, S2 8bit, S TT, S Blast), two kart racers (Sonic Drift 1-2), two isometric games CENTERED ABOUT EXPLORATION (Labyrinth, 3D Blast), a pinball/platforming hybrid (Spinball), a puzzle game (Mean Bean Machine), an on-foot racing game (Sonic R) and a goddamn honest-to-God FIGHTING GAME (Sonic the Fighters). Adventure games doing new things is not only reasonable, it would be weird if they DIDN'T do anything new. "It's not X" is the stupidest non-criticism possible that discourages a series from trying new things - especially when it's actually good at them. Which is, lo and behold, exactly what happened to the Sonic series - each time the 'hog takes a step aside, it gets thrown to the wolves. Shadow uses weapons? "It's not Sonic!". Even though the game isn't even named after Sonic and the weapons, you know, actually function perfectly fine and compliment the gameplay pretty well, not distracting from the high-speed platforming. The Werehog? "It's not Sonic!". Never mind the Werehog's combat actually being a perfectly fine beat'em up and his vertical-centered platforming being a nice counterpoint to the non-stop horizontal adrenaline rush of the daytime stages. Generations is pretty much the ultimate caving in, offering an extra Sonic on the side of Sonic because what else can they do if everything else gets shot down as "THIS ISN'T SONIC".
And let's go and just attribute this criticism to any other series. Third-person over-the-shoulder shooting is NOT RESIDENT EVIL, IT'S SUPPOSED TO HAVE A FIXED CAMERA ANGLE! And neither is first-person perspective!
And Metroid is not a first-person shooter either, what in the world are they doing?!
And Mario isn't about the water gun or kart racing or poseessing enemies or whatever the hell he's doing in the next game, IT'S NOT MARIO!
Red Faction is a first-person shooter, it's not about running around an open up and wrecking everyone's shit!
But then those same motherfuckers in the very same breath complain about the series never evolving, never doing anything new, never innovating when they are the ones who don't allow them to innovate.
"And who are you of all people to decide what is and isn't Sonic" - exactly, most of the times I hear "this isn't Sonic" comes from people who don't know the first thing about the series.
"Tails in a mech is stupid" - he was piloting a plane since his debut and Adventure 1 established him as a genius mechanic. And I'll be honest here, I never really liked Tails, his cutesy design and the way he was more of a hindrance in S2 and 3 gameplay didn't endear him to me, but SA2? I was completely onboard. A cute forest critter? Meh. A cute forest critter in a fuck-off mech destroying everything around with missiles? Sign me up, this is exactly the kind of stuff I'm here for.
"This isn't fun!" - yeah it is.
"There are no obstacles or challenge here" - well, except the challenge of a ticking clock and the obstacles like bottomless pits and other cars that waste your extra lives and slow you down.
"only now locking onto everything and shooting gets you killed" - I actually had an argument with a brainlet saying the same thing about me and I was like "Well... pay attention to what you're shooting". And he was complaining that it was "using the gmae's mechanics as taught" that was killing him, while a good lad that was also in that conversation pointed out that it's akin to jumping into a bottomless pit in Super Mario and complaining that the jumping mechanic killed him. Pay goddamn attention to what you're doing and maybe not do it if you know it's going to lead to a bad result.
About Shadow running out of rings - IIRC, if you don't miss a hit on the lizard, Shadow is the one to land a final strike, while Sonic's collecting some extra rings, so there's also that little bit of gameplay and story integration.
"After all the bad Sonic games" - all two of them, '06 and Boom. Which weren't even bad because they had bad ideas or bad developers behind them, they were bad because they weren't polished and realized to their true potential. '06 especially. It may have done some things wrong when it comes to art direction (realistic humans is wack), but there's a reason there are so many projects to remake it out there - because people who know their tail from their knuckles when it comes to Sonic see the potential it had. All Sonic '06 needed was another year in the oven to become the Sonic Adventure for the new generation.
Boom had to struggle with redesigning a lot of the game for the new hardware that wasn't ready for the engine they were developing the game for. The original ideas behind it were really fascinating and I would love to see them realized as well.
This is Sega's biggest flaw - they don't put enough money and time and care into their flagship franchise, which is just ludicrous. But then, I kinda can't blame them, because the last time they put a good amount of money and polish into a Sonic game, we got Unleashed - a game with gorgeous graphics, amazing soundtrack, stellar presentation and great (not as good as Adventure but still great) gameplay that got slammed by reviewers who were either compensating for giving '06 a better score than anyone else or were just jumping on a bandwagon.
I like Jared, but he's yet another clueless Nintendo gamer jumping on a hate bandwagon for cheap laughs without bringing anything of worth to the table. He'd best stay in his own element.
heck i see people complaining all the time when they can't play as luigi i a MARIO GAME, that and you can that jared is abusive when he does you can only like 1/3 of the game.
“He’d best stay in his own element” which is video games, which Sonic Adventure 2 is, so IS his element. Also I love how all of the comments forget that he literally didn’t even blindly hate the game, he just said what he didn’t like but everyone’s acting like he called it the worst game ever made.
@TrainerblueTube he also said that the good parts of the game were very well made and are what makes the game worth playing as a whole. Every game has parts that are flawed, and SA2 just so happens to have a lot of them, doesn’t make the game terrible as a whole because the well made sections outweigh the bad ones.
@TrainerblueTube then maybe listen to what he said at the end when he gave his final thoughts
Technically the ranks to add some stuff to the game because getting all a ranks in a given stage gives emblems and emblems add extra stuff to the game but you really don't miss much from collecting the emblems. It's mostly chao accessories and eggs.
I don’t think people understand just how bad this review is, so let me put it this way. Imagine if a popular TH-cam reviewer called Zelda Oot or Final Fantasy 7 a bad game and accused fans of those games of being nostalgia blind, and their viewers believe them. That is basically what ProJared did to SA2 and it’s fans.
Well smack my ass because I never thought OoT to be that good and I played it as a kid but after replaying it years later I found it one of the weakest in the franchise. It was mind blowing at the time and a good base, but Majora's Mask is the clear winner in the 64 era for me.
@@zzxp1
I dont think Ocarina Is a bad game, far from it. But I think it didn’t age as well as Mario 64
No??
Egoraptor did that with oot
Projared is proof that online influencers hold too much power over the public opinion.
This is partially why I believe dramamongering channels are manipulative and lowkey evil.
I don't think he means to be that.
Even more scary when you consider the fact company’s pay them money to shill for there garbage games.
Projared criticizes Sonic games, but likes boring old Turn based RPGs such as FF1-FF6. Over better ones like Ultima games, Phantasy Star 1-4, Shining Force or Dragon Quest. So i dont take his opinions seriously.
@Bullymaguire111 that's subjective
@@captainmega6310 I mean i speak of someone who played these for 10 years. To sum it up "blinking JPEGs attacks you, and your characters has limited animations that looks out of place when fighting human artwork due to the midget size of them" its at best dry paint experience and i abhor these games to a point that i played Shadow the hedgehog to cure me of these games. They were that boring, atleast Shadow is a guilty pleasure fun
Sonic Adventure 2 isn't nostalgic to me at all, and it's still one of my favorite games ever. So yeah, ProJared is also wrong about that.
Sonic Adventure 2 battle has better writing then what we are given nowadays. =)
@@user-sp2jg9rx8r agreed
@@user-sp2jg9rx8r umm I’m not really too sure about that but hey, it’s your opinion.
@@ClumsyDog13 You should go watch his video about the story to understand why it’s the best Sonic story to understand what he’s coming from.
@@ClumsyDog13 So you think the new baldy nosehair shit is better then?? With zero continuity and effortless, baby writing that was fact checked on a Wikipedia article? Even if you don't like the story in SA2, even insinuating that the new shit is better is absolutely laughable.
I remember playing city escape and bumping into everything and not being able to flip on the ramps
Turns out I sucked at the time and needed to practice I'm doing pretty good now
When i first started playing sa2: this is too hard
*hours of practice later*
A rank
Me: that was easy
I honestly think he just rushed through the game just to make the video. He barely touched on the chao garden or talked about the 2 player minigames.
The game has alot to offer and just speeding through the story mode to make a video isnt the whole game.
He rushed through more things than this game...
He also rushed through murdering his TH-cam career in a day.
Of course he rushed through the games, how else could he look at nudes of children?
Cut to a few months later and RoB went into incredible detail about Chao breeding.
Just sayin.
He also mess up his own good image personality. XD
God, the whole "wish powers" is so... like, even when I played the game as a KID it was obvious to me that that was Shadow's cocky, eloquent way of saying "Since you freed me, I'll do one favor for you in return", not him LITERALLY saying he can grant wishes genie style. Like, god, that's just atrocious reading/listening comprehension.
That, or he tried to force a joke out of the line and it failed horribly.
I've been playing SA2 for the first time recently and with LITERALLY every single complaint this guy gave my reaction to experiencing them myself was "oh, that's a bit weird" and then I immediately move on. Like okay the game's not perfect, its definitely aged in the 20 years its been around, but my god is this guy making mountains out of molehills.
Seriously this review is the worst of all of his reviews. And you pointed out those flaws in the review perfectly.
Western Echidna I think the second worst review was Shadows of the Empire. I got the chance to play the game around the time the video came up and just like SA2, he praised the first level but once things got slow “OHHH WHAT IS THIS?!?! Aaauugghh wurst game evahhhh!!”
I’ll admit it’s not a good game but it’s a fun STAR WARS game, not to mention that the game doesn’t make shooting enemies a hassle. You play a sharp shooter and practically function like Resident evil games. As long as you aim towards the enemy, the shots will be directed to hit regardless. For Jared to complain about this makes me worry about seeing him review any OTHER old games that are generally popular but have clunky controls that anyone with a pulse can get a grasp to understand the controls if they chose to invest their time in it.
But this. THIS video is exploitive, hammy and downright forced to show that the 3D titles have “bad controls”
No sir. They don’t. You took those falls on purpose. You have no one to blame but yourself. I’d hate to see how he controls TWO DEE Sonic games if he CLAIMS the Three Dee ones are “bad and clunky”
I just realized something. He whines that you can't use the hint boxes if you want to A Rank the hunting stages... but he doesn't like the hunting stages in the first place and complains that they go on too long. So use the hint boxes, find the emerald pieces quicker, and just accept the bad rank so you can get back to your precious Sonic levels faster! Jeez!
Comment Section: "I can't come up with a competent rebuttal to his argument so I'm just gonna call him a butthurt Sonic fanboy and tell him to get a life."
Sad, but true. I mean, I can understand fans disagreeing with his opinion, but could they not explain why instead of just saying, "You're taking the review too seriously." , "You're just some Sonic fanboy nitpicker." or even, "This video is just cancer."
Seriously, you haters on here, grow up. It's his opinion and he has the right to express it. If you're going to call him out for something, it should be for something he legitimately got wrong or was mistaken about. But if you're just going to attack him because he dared to rebuttal one of your favorite reviewers, then you have serious issues. ProJared is not above a bad review, so stop treating him like some deity who can't ever get it wrong.
I didn't agree with everything this guy said either, but I can respect his passion as a Sonic fan and for why he loves SA2. Why is so hard for you all to just agree to disagree about stuff? Again, if you don't agree with this guy's opinion, then don't. Move on to something else and leave it be. Why get so triggered over just a review?
I swear society is getting very disturbing nowadays when they get this butthurt over someone's opinion.
????
Spontaneous Ejaculation that’s what people did to me when I said that projareds review was pretty bad
I mean i've seen like 4 of those comments, most comments either say "This video is good" and the rebuttals i've seen are actually decent. It's really nice to see Sonic fanboys act like valid rebuttals should be ignored and only focus on the garbage ones just because they want their opinion reinforced to them through an eco chamber.
@@imjustthere8624 Where?
*This video has aged incredibly-well.*
*Edit as of 8/27/2019:* Scratch that... to a point. Seems my comment hasn't actually aged all that well, after all.
It became even better.
It aged like a fine wine.
No. In fact it sucks
For everybody
@@maximmikheev8172 ?
@@ccateni28 oh, excuse me, quess I should go cheat on my wife
As terrible as Projared's SA2 review is, bringing up the cheating controversy to use it against him, as if it has anything to do with this game, makes zero sense.
Edit: I'm referring to the comments, not Ruby's video.
Ruby never used it in the video, tho. It was made BEFORE that.
@@ChiefMedicPururu I'm talking about the commenters, not Ruby. Guess I should've clarified that.
Yup
nah bro fuck projared and fuck the fact that hes trying to come back as if he did nothing wrong. put the fucker in jail for life before he traumatises more kids. he deserves everything they do to pedos in prison.
@@electrocast
I think you need a bit of SA2's message right now dude in which that even if people can do bad things or mistakes, they deserve another chance to fulfil their wishes for a happy life. Jared has admitted that he did send nudes to his audience but didn't know the age demographic and as well as some of the fans lying to him about their age (in what I gathered) & I feel like after what he's been through with cancel culture which almost ruined his life for something even worse in which he didn't do, I think we should give him another chance to make the right decisions in his life in the future.
I wonder how the ProJared fanboys feel now.
Violated. Kek
Lazward Azure savage
Yup.
Feels good man.
Karma at its finest
They are hatters now instead of fanboys lol
Who's back here after the Projared scandal going on?
Zach Jira me brother!
That’s what you get for clowning on sonic.
You too?
@@HelenFire420 ouch burn there
Me
I do love how he emphasizes the truck being unrealistically big as if it's a bad thing. Over the top action has always been a big part of what differentiated sonic from other platformers and even if that weren't the case it's hardly the most unrealistic thing to ever be in a platformer or tripple a game.
It's like complaining about the spinning flowers in green hill.
Its an overconfidence thing. Once they nitpick at stupid things, they (in their opinion) know they dont like the game since even if their wrong about their nitpock they still wont like the game since they DONT CARE
Half Life and Sonic Adventure are kinda on the same boat. That infamous third installment may never come to be
I love Unleashed and the Adventure Titles
ikagura I don't think they're bad games, I think they're great games
Oh
Me too Connor unleashed and adventure 2 are my favorites :D
Lmao, Unleashed WAS an Adventure game
I treat 3D Sonic games something like Exploration-based Rhythm Games. In my first run or two of the stages, I don't get a good grade and just take my time to get familiar with the levels, find the various routes, and hunt down secrets. Then I replay the stages using that knowledge to look as kick-ass as possible.
Exactly. That's how you're SUPPOSED to play them.
SOMEONE got it.
3D platformers should be like Mario 64, period.
@@ikagura You mean like the WereHog sections in Sonic Unleashed? Or Sonic: Lost World?
I actually think that the WereHog sections are pretty good, but that style of 3D platforming doesn't work well at conveying the sheer speed and spectacle that a 3D Sonic game usually tried to provide.
@@lnsflare1 Not at all... Super Mario 64 is a masterpiece and the best 3D platformer ever.
Unleashed and Lost World are just another bad Modern Sonic game.
Also the whole "the sheer speed and spectacle that a 3D Sonic game usually tried to provide" is a bad concept because it's style over substance while Mario are always good game
I honestly love Sonic Adventure 2. Even though I just started getting into the dark story and haven’t fully completed it, I would definitely say that the gameplay and story is great! The treasure hunting stages were of course a whole new gameplay style to me, but with practice I started to get the hang of it. Their definitely fun to play if you know what your doing and when you have a good idea where the emerald shards would be from the hints. (Even if some are extremely vague)
when you come up with a legitimate counterargument to a popular and misinformed opinion but almost nobody acknowledges it simply because it's sonic related
Great video, man!
Now everyone will appreciate it, if you get what i mean!
If only we could get people to not believe SomecallmeJohnny's similar viewpoint. Granted, I don't want him to turn out like ProJared has.
@@bunsmasterbunny at least his was better articulated and he actually knew what he was talking about
@@SharpieSkunk He didn't know what he was talking about when it came to the Treasure Hunting stages and storyline.
@@bunsmasterbunny SCMJ gives at least makes it clear that it's his opinion
Projared just trashed this game with flawed reasoning
I'm someone who rather enjoys ProJared, but a lot of my thoughts mirror yours as someone who grew up playing and is a huge fan of SA2.
I do mildly disagree with a couple of your points, like:
- Just because Bigfoot is easy doesn't excuse its lack of gameplay borders being pretty unintuitive
- Saying the Japanese voice option entirely mitigates the problems with the English voice option would be ignoring a flaw the localizers definitely could/should have fixed
But besides that this was a well thought-out analysis and an entertaining watch. Good video!
Thanks for the kind words. Let me address the points.
I don't think the invisible walls are really unintuitive. It is defined by the clear circular shape of the street. I still don't see the issue here.
I didn't say it mitigates the problems with the English voices. My point is the quality of the English voices don't have to degrade your experience. The original voice option is plainly available, and you're always doing yourself a disservice anyway, regardless of the quality of the localized voices, if you don't listen to a work's native voices at least by default on your first run through. I think the same of foreign films and anime.
To be honest, I'm against the idea of localized voices in any case for any language. I think it can be really invaluable to let media consumers experience a work in its original language, whether it be French, German, or Japanese. It's something that can let them experience something outside their own country. This can especially good for children to listen to different languages growing up. Not just that, I think subs can improve people's reading and listening comprehension. Once you get used to quickly grasping the subtitles, you have all the benefits I just laid out and none of the potential issues that come with localized dubs.
My stance on the Japanese voices of SA2 stems from this belief of mine.
Thanks for the response! Here's my rebuttal though:
- As we have played the Bigfoot fight many many times, you and I both know the circular street does border the Bigfoot fight. However, from a game designer's perspective you should account for people who are playing and seeing this part of the game for the first time, and making an invisible wall (Especially one with breakable boxes beyond it) with no intuitive indication that you can't go there will confuse and infuriate new/unfamiliar players. A simple fix would be to, for example, move the police barricades making them become the new border wall. In the grand scheme of things this is a very minor issue, but it's an issue that very much could be fixed and that's why I think it's fair to bring it up as a game flaw.
- Regarding the game localization however: We have very differing opinions on this subject. I do agree that seeing as much of the original creator's intention in a game is a good thing, and I also enjoy watching a lot of media subtitled, however I also consider game localization an art in itself. When something inevitably comes up that cannot be directly translated while keeping the original meaning (For example, a Japanese pun) a good localizer will replace it with as close to an equal English (Or French/German/Etc.) equivalent of the same joke/exposition being portrayed.
A fantastic example of this is the "Pencil Eraser" in Earthbound, where you need to erase giant iron pencils blocking your path by using the Pencil Eraser device. Later in the game you find giant iron Erasers blocking your path, and you instead require the "Eraser Eraser" to continue. In Japanese these were the "Tako Keshi" (Octopus Eraser) and the "Kokeshi Keshi" (Japanese-Limbless-Doll Eraser), with a pun that would have made no sense for English-speaking audiences.
Yes, the localization is not a 1 to 1 translation of the original Japanese text, but it's an identical joke being made that doesn't sacrifice the integrity of the original and yet also can be understood perfectly by English audiences. That's what a good localization can do, and when it's done well it should be celebrated.
That's where the problem with SA2 lies: No real effort was made to adapt the Japanese script and make it receptive to English audiences while still flowing well. Again, in the grand scheme of things it's not that big of a deal as it doesn't technically affect gameplay in any significant way, but the English localization was something that, if more care was put into it, could have been fixed or even made to flow as well as the Japanese version does.
Putting barricades to represent the wall would then mean they'd block your view whenever you're against the wall and the camera is focused on the boss. The wall is only represented by a slightly elevated curb for a reason. I don't see how this solution is any different from being "confused" you can't go past the curb to being "confused" you can't jump over the barricade. No reasonable player is going to be "infuriated" by the invisible wall. They'll go "oh, okay. I can only move in the circle".
I don't think that outweighs dubbing's tendency to have worse voice acting, casting, unnecessary changes, and other messy stuff that degrades the work far more often than not. I'm not excusing SA2's dub problems, it should've been handled better, that's obvious. But at the same time, no one has any reason to listen to it anyway, barring illiteracy or ignorance of the original voice option. So I just find it silly when someone says it makes their experience worse.
Your points are fair. I think invisible walls back when SA2 was released were more forgivable, while nowadays they're almost never seen due to the nature of them inherently not really making any sense, and even if there's no simple "Flip of a switch" answer to the invisible wall problem I still say it's best to consider that there is likely some answer that does address all accounted problems (Somehow having an intuitive boundary understandable at a glance without sacrificing room for the camera etc.).
One last thing to add regarding localization too though: Remember that not everybody necessarily shares the same opinion as yours. I think even with a Japanese voice option in games there is still merit to having an English voice option, for example for players who prefer to become immersed in a game's experience by having every character speak in their native tongue. Yes, many dubs do a very bad job, but many also do at least a respectable job. I'm of the opinion that having the option is better than not having the option at all, for the decent percentage of people who want it.
MAKE INVISIBLE WALLS GREAT AGAIN! MAKE READING GREAT AGAIN!
This video deserves more praise
I adore the adventure games and pray one day Sonic Team will go back to this formula
We all do... =*(
But Sonic Team is scared shitless to take risks.
Somecallmejohnny has a much better review of this game
Johnny is the best Sonic reviewer I've seen to be honest
Agreed. Although his review is 40 minutes long and isn't meant to be satire, so it is pretty dense and hard to sit through all at once.
Johnny is the best.
Hardly, SCJ is such a dumbass he can't even realize that Eggman having both teleport and rockets is not a plothole, but simply Eggman having alternative means of transportation.
And he called Colors' writing "the best". Baldy McNoshair and long ass cringe-inducing monologues about food or how fighting Eggman is a chore ? Yeah no....
Ah, and he's so stupid he thinks Forces is different from Colors when they play almost exactly the same.
SCJ is overrated, his other reviews are good but his Sonic reviews are mostly stupid.
The Den Colors gives you way more to do than Forces. And if he likes the writing then that's his opinion.
And yes, Eggman having a rocket is kind of a plothole. I realize that this is Eggman we're talking about. But even he isn't dumb enough to have this gaint ass rocket for anyone to take, when he himself will never use it because he's a lazy fatass.
This is how I feel when people hate on Generation Five of Pokemon.
Makes no sense. Gen 5 is the best gen to date.
I hate Pokemon(: in every sense
@@Mojo1356 you say that like it's a fact
@@Mojo1356 Do you only think that because somecallmejohnny said so?
Ruby: Explaining big problems with this review.
ProJared Fanboys: You’re nostalgia blind! This game is bad! You’re a Sonic fanboy!
You're late as hell lol
@@captainmega6310 We all are down here
Man this drama sure is a shit show.
The purpose of this video is to debunk the claims he has made for Sonic Adventure 2, cheating on your wife or sending/receiving nudes have nothing to do with an opinion of a video game but sadly some people couldn't hold their desire to make accusations and now it seems to have backfired due to his latest video, going from "I wonder how Projared fans feel now?" to "I wonder how Sonic fans feel now?"
I checked the comment section of the Sonic Adventure 2 review and now fans of this game are once again the laughing stock, possibly worse than before.
This game marked the begining of my gaming history
Cool
This is a great video. I have been noticing the SA games getting dragged through the mud lately too. I can only wonder how long it will be until we start seeing the "S3&K and mania was never good" train come in.
Arin from Game Grumps already tried that; saying S3&K sucks in his let's play.
SRUFUS3D not surprised really if that's true. They, imo, helped start this spark of the sonic hate. I don't watch or support them in any way but sega is really buddy buddy with them. I never thought I would see a company like sega give so much support to someone who clearly hates this franchise.
Alma Elma Yeah it was mostly Arin. I don't condone his crap. And imo Game Grumps hasn't been as good since Jon left, Danny generally just goes with everything Arin says really.
Yup. That's my issue with the Sonic Twitter and Aaron Webber, it is him and the Twitter that are becoming butt buddies with those that hate him. Like Game Grumps, IGN, ScrewAttack.
It's not even witty comebacks or banter, it's just sad. And the constant self-deprecating memes comes off as desperate, pathetic and makes Sonic, the series and fanbase look like an even bigger joke! All for the sake of being "ironic and self-aware" oddly enough.... they aren't self-aware in their attempt at being so since these people still don't give a single damn or have ounce of respect for you...
Alma Elma Nah Mania and S3 are actually good games and everyone can agree that they are. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 have way too many flaws to be considered good imo and no one can agree if they're good or not
I think sonic 3 and mania or more casual games and thus appeal to more people easily. I'd put it as being kind of like how a lot of people like 2d mario games over the 3d ones because they're simpler to play or how a lot of older people who were really into video games before everything switched over to consoles and pc don't care for modern console games.
I find it really stupid that Jared claims that Sonic should have minimum platforming even though Sonic is a FUCKING platforming series.
tbh when there's platforming in a Sonic game it can be annoying like in Marble Zone due to the floaty jumps however, due to Sonic having the mid dash (basically the homing attack however if Sonic doesn't have an enemy to home in on, he just shoots forwards) in the 3d (Adventure) games, it makes a good mix of platforming while still keeping the forward momentum which is one of the aspects on what 3d (Adventure) Sonic does better than 2d (can also be pointed out with Knuckles'/Rouges' gliding ability and the hover ability on The Mech's/Gamma's Stages).
I don't think ProJared is a Sonic fan. The only other time I can think he reviewed Sonic was Rise of Lyric
Jared is DEFINITELY NOT a Sonic fan if he thinks that!
I don't know how my 7 years old me could interpret Shadow's line "I will grant you one wish" better than him, when I was barely learning English as well.
Yes it has mistranslation, but not all dialogue in every piece of media has to be literal all the time, I always interpreted Shadow's line as him saying "I'll repay you for liberating me", and since he uses the word "wish" and not "favor", it means that he's willing to do anything in his power, also his demeaner and body language adds to it, presenting an air of confidence on his power, which he actually demonstrates fighting the boss Hot Shot.
As a kid the stages that I did not like were the hunting stages, I played this game for the first time as a 7 years old, guess I struggled a lot with the clues system (most likely, because English isn't my first language), but even then I did not hate these stages, because to me they were immersive, the style, level design, size, and music captivated me, even if I didn't enjoy the gameplay at the time. As for the shooting and speed stages, I loved them. Personally I dislike very much when people say that Tails being in a mech is "stupid", he is a genius engineer that has been clearly portrayed as infinitely weaker (physically) than Sonic, him using his tech to be proficient in battle and multiple terrains is not only logical, but very cool as well. As a kid I always saw myself as Tails, I wanted to ride a cool machine that could let me traverse with ease and have the intelligence to move a team forward. If anyone hasn't noticed it yet, I would say that thanks to this game, Tails is my favorite Sonic character (recent games do not have Tails, just a cheap decorative sidekick to Sonic). Tails in this game has a lot of agency, since he's the one taking initiative to make plans and drive them forward taking advantage of each members abilities. As a + his theme rocks very hard.
When I look up the definition of awesomeness, sonic adventure 2's in it
This is how I feel when people mindlessly hate on the Werehog. There's so much you can do with him!
His stretchy arms can save you from death if you grab a ledge when you're about to fall down a pit, there's so many combos you can unlock by leveling him up, his stages focus on platforming and exploration, while the day stages focus on speed.
The Werehog is just a change of pace. They fill the void at what makes sonic, sonic. A perfect ballence of speed, platforming, and exploration.
The day stages have the speed and minor platforming, and the night stages have the exploration and major platforming.
If you're someone who hates on the werehog stages because it's cool, please them and a chance, and I garentee you will find enjoyment from them.
(Also, Eggman's stages are my favorite in this game.)
T-Bird see that’s why I enjoyed Sonic Games growing up: a chance at varied gameplay. Let’s face it, many MANY Mario games where you get the chance to play as different characters you BARELY notice any gameplay difference. Exceptions between limp jumping Toads and floating princesses, you can play as anyone and it wouldn’t matter, the levels play the same.
I will even admit, claim insanity if you wish, that Sonic 06 was mostly fun playing the different characters. ESPECIALLY the main leads, Sonics fast speed, Shadows access to GUN tech and Silvers wicked telekinesis to STOP projectiles about to hit me. The sonic games got better when they gave you varied flavors dating all the way back to Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Adventure, Adventure 2, the Advance Trilogy, Rush Duology, Sonic Heroes, Sonic and the Black Knight, and yes even Sonic Generations giving the era flavors of old and new (when it was worth a damn)
Why else did people get excited about the revelation of Sonic mania allowing you to play as Tails, Knuckles AND EVENTUALLY MIGHTY AND RAY!! Mighty AND Ray! PEOPLE GOT EXCITED FOR OBSCURE CHARACTERS LOST TO HISTORY!! So the next time people shit on the Sonic cast being in games “taking focus away from SONIC”
Tell them to never play a Paper Mario title again, Tell them to tell their friends to scram so they’ll play Mario games by themselves AS Mario only, tell them to never acquire allies in Donkey Kong Country games.
Oh not fun without friends you say?? HOW DO YOU THINK WE FEEL?!?!
Ahhh....ok. I’m good.
I gave them a chance and they are still terrible. They are far too slow and too much of a jarring change of pace to be something that counter balances the boost stages. Not to mention the combat is derivative and uninspired, a copycat of much better action combo based games.
I love the Werehog. =)
I am really killing my self to find a sonic unleashed zip file to emulate the game.
@@okagron yeah whays the original one?
ProJared drama is making this video look even better. Mess with the bull and you get the horns.
Yep and it gets even worse
@Pokémon & FF fan mess with jack, you get the ripper
Just to let you know, reviewing a game and sending inappropriate photos to underage fans are two different things that aren't related at all. Sure, Projared crushed its own career, but SA2 isn't the reason for that.
@Jeeses99 You mean the wife who started an open relationship and then cried cheater when her husband started getting better results than her? Oh yeah, what an innocent angel.
Jeeses99 why though?
I've beaten many of the treasure hunting stages in the ranges of 30-80 seconds (even as a child), how is speed running impossible LOL? Pro Jared just needed to get good, I hate when people blame the game for them sucking.
He does have a point though that the radar hints requiring you to know the layout to get any use out of them kind of makes each first playthrough a complete chore. As you play the game more, obviously you become more familiar with your surroundings. That's just an inherent thing about Sonic games, the more you play the better you get and more fun the game is. But needing to be familiar with your surroundings just to progress? That would be like if Sonic 3 required you to get all the Special Rings in the stage just to beat the level. I don't think that's very good design. And I'm someone who actually likes SA2.
Is lile IGN with sonic unleashed, they suck at playingi it so the games suck too
@@jacobmonks3722 >Sonic fans want more exploration in the gameplay like in Sonic 3
>Knuckles gameplay style in SA2 is all about exploration
>Sonic fans dislike it and don't want it
No wonder Sonic Team doesn't bother with the exploration aspect anymore.
@@islandboy9381 The reason people don't like Knuckles in SA2 is because all they did was make a worse version of Knuckles in SA1. His stages are way too big and the hint system got gimped. If either one of these problems was fixed, there would be little issue.
@@jacobmonks3722 Again, why focus on the radar the entire time, the focus is to explore the stages on your own, and the Knuckles stages in SA1 are so short almost none of them are memorable, the multiple beeping radar made them even more shorter and trivial.
That’s a lot of mindsets nowadays.
“I’m not good at this game so it’s not good”. Glad I watched this to give me some more aware about these sorts of things
The whole "People in the Sonic universe are idiots for not knowing the difference between Sonic and Shadow" argument is hilarious as people are this dumb in real life.
No, they’re dumber then that.
@@RealHyperHedgehog exactly
😂😂😂😂
28:40 I'm pretty sure the reason Shadow and the Biolizard look like that is because of the Sonic vs perfect chaos mural from adventure 1 that gerald found he first tried to make Chaos then he tried to make supersonic
The like to dislike ratio is very ugly to look at...
I didn't even watch that video.
JESUS CHRIST I love you dude! (No homo XD) This video was super on point and was ALMOST a perfect reflection on how I myself feel about this game and also I’m fresh out of your SA1 video so I agree on both fronts, too bad that your comment section is flooded with children who can’t form their own opinion and rely on influential figures such as Jared to do it for them and then can’t comprehend the fact that criticism can be criticized. I don’t agree with you on every single thing you say (but still like 93-95% of the points I agree) but all of your Adventure vids (and all the other ones I presume ;)) are great and I’d love to talk to someone like you who’s as big a fan of Adventure as I am in person but I doubt that you’ll even see this comment since there’s so many of’em. But in any case, rock on man.
Thanks :)
Damn, Ruby dissected and rebutted all of ProJared's points so sharply, I almost feel bad for Jared. Almost. Sonic Adventure 2 is my favorite game from the series, right up alongside Sonic 3 and Knuckles, for its innovation and seemingly endless replay value across every game mode.
Yet Jared dismissed this video as a "fanboy" defending an "awful" game.
@@ChiefMedicPururu If he did, then I applaud him for his poorly constructed ad hominem arguments with zero substance. He has a gift doing that.
@@GabeLane612 Wait, that's not the first time he dismissed someone?
Rewatching it as many times as I am, I’m noticing that this rebuttal has quite a few flaws to be addressed.
Beta 511ee Like what?
SA3 will be a MASSIVE challenge. Gonna require the smarts of the good fans who can detetct problems and fix them. Like the modders.
They'd also need someone that can keep the story in line with the other Adventure titles. After the "It's Chaos! Sonic Save me!" bit from Forces, I don't trust the current writers with another Adventure title.
@@EveCat2343 Ironic that that moment could also be defended on the grounds of "context," much like how Ruby defended the scenes of Shadow being mistaken for Sonic.
@Tom Ffrench I don't even WANT an Adventure 3 anymore
@@beta511ee4Unlike Tails. That has no reason to be debunked. The Shadow and Sonic mistaken thing however has a reason. Hell those were pontaff for that.
"If the game was only about Sonic and not his stupid friends, the game would be a lot better."
Wait, wouldn't that also include the Shadow stages which he said he also liked? Since Shadow is also one of Sonic's 'stupid' friends?
Not to mention Shadow isn't even a friend of Sonic in this game, including the end where he only helps because of Maria. Same with Eggman and Rouge, though I guess Rouge becomes a friend at the end of the game. So yeah, just Sonic and the Dark Story, which would include the other two gameplay styles he said sucked.
Good on you, Jared.
By "stupid friends" a.k.a. the infamous "shitty friends" expression, he mean any character who's not from Sonic 1.
Even though I love Sonic Adventure 2, there are just 4 little things I wish the game included.
1. More CG cutscenes. Same goes for SA1.
2. Have Sonic and Eggman fighting each other directly like they always do.
3. Shadow laughing menacingly.
4. Showing some flashbacks of Eggman interacting with his grandfather Professor Gerald, and his cousin Maria.
The CGI in the adventure games were pretty bad and gross looking. It was better than adventures cutscenes but sa2 could have done without cgi.
SuperSonicWarrior93 I agree with 3/4 of your points, because why does shadow need to laugh menacingly?
Derr Rtee Ignore that part. I was just bullshitting. Lol.
Jalen M. I disagree. I actually liked the CG cutscenes. I'm glad they had them in there.
@@JELKK11 No your wrong. The cgi cutscenes were great. Not everything will look like a hot girlfriend to you.
I did find the comment "it's impossible to speedrun these stages" super weird, since ProJared has literally no speedrunning experience, and when he released the video, I knew several speedrunners of the game that love the levels.
I'll add on to the super form point you made if I may. Not only was Shadow too inexperienced in using his super form but there was dialog to the final hazard fight. Sonic noticed Shadow was getting weaker then tells Shadow to get back in the colony because he was running out of rings but Shadow refused because he wanted to grant Maria's wish at any costs.
Jared: Nobody likes the mech or hunting stages.
Me: *Literally puts five hours a day into replaying the ENTIRE game, and not just the speed stages.*
This is one of my favorite videos now, I don’t think Jared cared to play the game after the first play through, the game wants you to go back through the stages and try to get better at them, that’s why there’s a ranking system, you can’t just expect to automatically good at the game overall after playing through one stage, Jared didn’t really realize that. Good counter arguments and I can’t wait to see what you have in store next, this was a great video!
I agree now I don't hate Jared as a person but I don't like as a content creator because he is so prideful
Something that I just realized about his complaint about the racing stages: sure, they are really easy in the story mode (and also won't take much of your time, and there's only two of them, so I fail to see the major issue), but the bonus missions in those stages are some of the hardest in the game, so it does add something on that front.
I got into sonic by playing sonic 2 on his genesis. My dad bought me my game cube and the first game I ever own was SA2. I played it so much that my disc is scratched and messed up. It can still play but it’ll stop a lot. When Chuck E. Cheese was doing a promotion with sonic I was able to get a SA2 steam copy for free and it made me super happy. This game I love it to death. I play it every freaking year. When I first watched his review it never sat right with me because I love this game and my memories was still the same and I still felt the same about it. People talk crap about this game because 06 and yeah we may never get a SA3 but we need that knowing what’s happening to sonic right now. This game deserves way more love because honestly this was a great era.
When I played SA2 for the first time I will admit, I loved the speed and shooting stages, but didn't like the hunting stages as much simply because I was bad at it.
But I never said the stages sucked or the game was bad because of it. Only that I was bad and I didn't find it as fun, I still love the game entirely.
It has been a long while since I have seen Jared's video, and despite those Likes-Dislikes, the comments section shows a ton of backlash and shows just how many people loved the Adventure titles. Of course, there were those few who did fall for the stuff Jared said and were manipulated into saying the games were bad without thinking to go back and seeing if these claims were true. I replayed SA2 and...controls aside, I did have my fun with the game and thought as a whole it was fantastic. So whatever Jared was doing during his review may either be blind Sonic hate that I've noticed being a theme for the NormalBoots crew or genuine experiences that he feels needs addressing... But thinking about the latter option, there are still better people who address these problems as opinions rather than passing them off as facts. SomecallmeJohnny for example. He addressed and said that people love SA2 a lot more than SA1, while he himself is the opposite, but he does encourage and hope Sonic Adventure 3 happens, whether it be by Sega or taking the Sonic Mania route and being made by a group of dedicated fans. If you want to see an unbiased, opinion-based review from a genuine Sonic fan, you go see Johnny.
All this stated from a non-Sonic fan by the way, so you can tell that SA2 had a great impact on me as a kid so Jared hatred toward the game just makes me not like him AS much as before he made that video.
An amazing and truly thought out review of a review. Ruby, you've done it again and given Sonic the respectful review it deserves. Thank you for this video.
No.
i can't believe it's not everything
Care to elaborate, rather than just calling him retarded like a dick?
@@analanus3131 Not an argument assmad npc.
3D Sonic games only get shit because the people who hate them haven’t been able to grasp the fact that Sonic evolved to something they wouldn’t even try to give a proper chance. This might be a controversial opinion but I think every game from SA1 to Sonic 06 is great, some are flawed, but still great, back when they actually tried to tell a great story rather than make the games ridiculous and childish to borderline preschool. Also only having Sonic as a playable character is boring and makes the game more repetitive to me.
I agree with alot of your points, but let's not delude ourselves here. Shadow the Hedgehog and 06 are bad games. And the stories they tell are badly executed (06 having Sonic's campaign being butchered. The others are decent to good though.) Stick to SA1-2 and heroes.
@@unkownuser3851 I wouldn't say Shadow the Hedgehog is bad though. It's good if you're not planning on beating it in one session. 06 is meh tho.
There's plenty of reasons to not like Sonic Adventure 2. You could say the level design is poor at times, specifically in the Tails levels where enemies can hit you before you can react. You could just not like the different gameplay styles. Maybe the mechs are too clunky for your liking, perhaps you find the treasure hunting tedious. It's possible the bosses might frustrate you too with how messy they can feel at times.
HOWEVER.
Most of the points that ProJared brought up in his video are either factually incorrect, inconsistent with each other, or projecting his own views onto everyone else. It's clear he wasn't interested in analyzing the game to find genuine flaws or annoyances, he simply went in wanting to bash it because it's different and "not Sonic".
I like Sonic Adventure 2 overall, despite whatever issues it may have. ProJared created a massive insult and disservice to the game. I've always felt extreme resentment toward him for his smarmy bashing, so this video is extremely satisfying to me.
Edit: I have no input on the drama surrounding Jared. It's already been proven that not everything is as we once believed. My comment is only talking about his SA2 video.
Naw fuck that, Jared's a fucking dumbass, gateem.
Yeah I hated him before "that".
And I'm indecisive, on the one hand he may be innocent, on the other hand, he's still not a very good person. I'm tired of the "I say it's bad so it is" type of review. Some games are deserving of that, like ride to hell, others, not so much.
@@valen9835 Ya know, I hated Projared even before this fiasco, yet I find your arguement to be complete fuckin' bullshit.
@@Densester You're obviously a sociopathic manchild. Lmao.
Projared video in a nutshell
"I watched somecallmejohnny"
At least Johnny's reviews are well constructed, brings valid points, and states in his videos that it is HIS impressions of the game and doesnt look down on others for enjoying said game
Johnny’s points about the trausure hunting stages and plot were invalid as this video shows.
Bond Fanboy 007 “and exaggerated the hell out of the negative comments”
@@bunsmasterbunny No, they fucking weren't, they were on point. Johnny was pretty much correct about how bad the treasure hunting stages are and how poorly written the plot is.
@@okagron It's not "poorly written" just because your dumb ass can't pay attention
I really still like SA2, oddly I will state my most controversial opinion:
the electric shield screwing up your lightspeed dash SUCKS. >=/
other than that I do think there are criticisms that can be levied about the games, but peoples issues with the glitches annoy me: Mario 64 is JUST as glitchy, people can cram it.
Alexander Whyte SA2 isn't all that glitchy, it just suffers from clunky controls. When the Magnetic Shield messes up your Light Speed Dash, that's not a glitch, that's a result of not being in the right position and not hitting the button at the very specific time you are supposed to. It is 100% intentional, and a serious drawback to people who look at the Gamecube controller and think "Why are 4 functions given to a single button, when there are like 7 buttons not being used at all?"
Oh, I know WHY it happens, it still sucks =o
I know about that. ya that sucks. you have to press b early before.
@@jacobmonks3722 sa2
Clunky controls?
@@psgaming101craup4 ...Yes. Was my statement above somehow inaccurate?
A couple of thoughts: I don’t think it’s fair to say that Japanese was the language that the devs wanted you to hear. Given that SA2 was largely inspired by the fact that the dev team was in America, I think the only reason the cutscenes are better in Japanese was because the devs would obviously make them first in their native language and then localize them later. I think it’s a fair criticism of the English cutscenes that the localization was poorly handled because it has always been the intention of these devs to release it in the West. And westerners deserve to be able to enjoy the media in their own language. It’s the dev’s responsibility to make that possible.
Also, destroying part of the moon is still really bad for the planet, scientifically speaking =P
I highly doubt Shiro Maekawa, the writer, would prefer people to listen to SA2 with a jank localization that loses much of his original script's meaning with worse acting. They clearly put a lot of thought into directing and casting the original voice actors, and even to this day still care a lot about them, as most of them have stuck with the series since 1998. They could have easily not include a Japanese voice option, but they did. They're not just some placeholders for their own language until they can get the game localized.
I just disagree that the west, or any country is entitled to have a work's voice acting redone because they can't be bothered to play with subtitles or get used to hearing a different language. Especially when it always results in at least some amount of the original intention being lost.
@@RubyofBlue I'm not suggesting that the writers prefer a jank localization, nor am I suggesting that the Japanese voice is a placeholder. What I'm saying is that the intent of localization is to allow all players to experience the story in the same way that Japanese audiences would: that is, unimpeded by subtitles or the fact that what they're hearing can't be intuitively understood without taking your eyes off of the action and focusing on the bottom of the screen, while simultaneously filtering what is being said through an acquired knowledge of cultural differences and nuances. And I think that given how Sonic is a character who was conceived specifically to be market-friendly, the developers would want all players to have that kind of experience. The fact that the song lyrics are all in English very clearly suggests to me that the English language is intrinsically rooted in the experience that they were designing. It's almost like a celebration of the unity between the eastern and western markets.
Obviously in an ideal world, the localization would keep as much of the original intent of the Japanese language intact as possible, but even with subtitles, you're going to lose things that simply don't translate. In summary, I think it's reasonable to think that the Japanese devs wanted english speakers to have a good localization, which is something that they didn't get. Perhaps going as far to say as "westerners deserve it" is going too far, that I'll concede.
Sonic is a very westaboo series, in that it takes heavy inspiration from western cartoon characters and films, the songs are all in English (similar to a lot of other Japanese works and anime), and Sonic breaks out into Engrish every now and then. But that doesn't mean the Japanese voices aren't meant to be the method by which the creators want their work to be perceived. At least in the case of SA2 and 1. For example, if you just look at how the English actors have been treated over the course of the series' life; it's basically musical chairs, always changing and swapping them around, seemingly little thought given to them. Whereas the Japanese voices are all still mostly the same since SA1. They're the ones the devs have the most direct input on when recording the games' dialogue to properly realize their stories.
Even with the shortcomings subs might have to some people, that's vastly preferable over how prone dubs are to changing the work from script, casting, or acting. This is all to say, deducting points from the overall game for a bad localization is really silly. You can criticize a bad localization and that they should've paid more attention. But when the OG voices are plainly there in the case of SA2, and are the ones with the most effort and quality put behind them, making a big deal about the quality of the English voices just comes off as silly. I don't think reluctance to venture beyond someone's own language is a good reason.
@@RubyofBlue Dubs have improved over the years you know. Just because a dub makes a script change doesn't necessarily mean it completely changes the characters, story, theming, or product as a whole. Even with some changes in localization there have been a lot of dubs that get the point and theming of the product across in a different language. There are also plenty of people who got those thematic points through watching the dub.
@@chadtidlund9662 To that all I'll say is.
Watch Sonic Colours Cutscenes Japanese on Windii's channel.
Then pull out another video of Sonic Colours Cutscenes in English.
All I'll say about the latter is, it is not for the faint of heart.
Other series like Resident Evil and Final Fantasy may have finally gotten the dubbings right.
And at one point I'd say Sonic did with Sonic and the Black Knight.
But after that game they just threw in the towel because "Story and writing doesn't belong in a Sonic game" as the critics say, have left SEGA the impression that they should save money on English dubbing.
Its been a long time since I played sonic Adventure 2 but something that really rang true in Projareds video for me is that i enjoyed the first Sonic stage the most and would continue to play it for chao stuff.
You, sir, have won my subscription. Adventure duology FTW and my hat's off to you.
i have yet to see any criticism towards this video that isn't "lol ur just nostalgia blind" or "jeez it's just his opinion calm down" like shut up he knows that he just finds his arguments to be stupid and is simply responding to them. he never said he had to like them
Also the opinion argument is really dumb, just because it’s “his opinion” doesn’t make Jared free from criticism.
I think most modern reviews forget that is a port of a Dreamcast game, there wasn't as many buttons or a second thumbstick on the controller. The many 'problems' here are because of the limitations of the dreamcast hardware. But everyone judges it as a Gamecube game or by other modern 3d games, they forget this was only the 2nd or 3rd 3D sonic game at the time, so there are always going to be issues.
Eternal Engine was my favorite Tails levels BECAUSE it forced you to be aware of what you targeted with your missiles.
We live in a world where Bubsy got a new game due to memes and yet Sonic Team have been adamant (so far) on not making another Adventure game due to memes.
It'd be a beautiful metaphor if it weren't already instead a very sad fact of life that I hope to see change in the future.
Thank you for standing up for the game, it means so much. Also the soundtrack is enough to rave about, but the gameplay was ahead of its time! I hate when people give a game negative hype for views. Now my little brother thinks every game sucks
Is your little brother Arin Hanson?
i can't stand when people bring up "hurr durr sonic doesn't look like shadow"
like...it's just suspension of disbelief it's not a flaw of the game and it doesn't hurt the narrative as a result.
It's the same reason people don't suspect superman is clark kent despite him just wearing glasses.
There's a difference between suspension of disbelief (me believing that there's a four foot tall, anthropomorphic blue hedgehog with super speed) and the game breaking its own rules. Characters in the game comment on Shadow and Sonic's individual colours. Shadow is called black, Sonic is called blue. Unless the game *wants* me to believe that everyone is colourblind, it's still a plothole. Also, there's an explanation for the Clark Kent Superman thing. It isn't as simple as "he has glasses now so people don't recognise him".
@@francisariwaodo318 well you have a point
I also think it wasn't my idea but someone said since shadows original design terios looked more like sonic that's why but they changed his Design to shadow they forgot to change the lines
UniqueNameGuy it isn’t a plothole, Show anyone who is vaguely familiar with sonic a picture of shadow.
@@megapokesonicx This isn't just people "vaguely familiar" with Sonic. This is a government organisation who knew what Sonic looked like. Not to mention that Sonic is a celebrity in Station Square. He saved it from Chaos. Everyone should be intimately familiar with what he looks like, and should certainly know that Shadow isn't him.
Sonic adventure 2 and 1 were honestly my favorite games in the series, and the most I've replayed and come back to.
So even I was really disappointed by Jared's opinion on it. I understand not everyone has to like what ya like and all, but quite a few of his reviews swing into the unreasonable territory when put under pressure by fans.
If there is one thing I want to say though, he's not a bad person. Actually met him in a con years ago and he was super kind to me when he noticed something seemed wrong. I was a complete stranger to him and he asked if I needed a hug because I was going under a hard time in what should have been a fun place hah. Even talked to him for a while about some of his videos and pointed out a few things I didn't fully agree with. Like I said though, when put under pressure some points he made he could have been thought out more. He's also very much known for skipping over important info in games then complaining about it, so in my eyes he's more of an impatient player rather than a critical reviewer. A darn shame really, cause it doesn't paint a good image.
nights2dreams I love them to but they can be pretty fuckin buggy when they want
“He’s not a bad person” oof
Mcallister26 that really didnt aged well
"If there is one thing I want to say though, he's not a bad person."
Ooh! Probably the most dated part of this comment. XD
Now these replies haven't aged well lol
In the words of sa2 people LIVE AND LEARN
Ayyy
100% agree with Ruby. i use to think the same exact way as Jared when i was 7 playing this game for the first time but it was my love for the game that made me keep coming back and trying to improve. Im glad i did too, i went from the mindset of "only 1/3 of this game is good" to "wow i actually am enjoying the 3/3 game modes". I think if you're open to the idea of the game being not just focused around sonic(speed stages) you'll find enjoyment in the hunting and shooting stages but its up to you if you want to get the most out of it, and nothing better states this point than the knuckles speedrunner clip shown. if you dont like the game dont play it, find something you do enjoy, but PLEASE dont call it bad because you were unwilling to improve and wrote it off as "poor game design"
Why do some people think that incapacitate mean to kill? also yeah, i got the idea of sonic knocking out the guards and strong enough to break free from the cuffs and out of the helicopter as we see him basing hundreds of robots and cars with ease when he's not at top speed.
The game, still holds up to this day with a good a few things that do need some more polish and work with other parts being just something that can be subjected to personal preference and bias. But what game of those times didn't have things like that to begin with? they are still experimenting in 3d platforming, racing and shooting at that point so it still has kinks and flaws that would be ironed out by the 2000s when we have full grasp of the 3d game engines, correct me if I'm wrong. It is more amazing how they can get a good 3d game that still holds up to this point and time after decades of it's original release with the same quirks and kinks that was present in the original release. I look at Halo CE as an example of a game that is still experimenting with 3d fps games on a console and have done and set the standard for how a fps console game is to run and feel, it has its quirks and hiccups with some things, but it was a new game and trying new things, those quirks and hiccups have been ironed out in 2 to now, minus the gear box part of Halo CE as the modding community had to fix it and 343i hadn't fixed the broken port of it at the writing of this post.
“He’s a mad scientist of the Robotnik family, what do you expect.”
Okay, that was hilarious.
You made a good point with the languages, yes the English voice cast constantly talk over eachother and it gets annoying, but some voices did a great job, (Ryan Drummond greatly improved since sa1), I mainly chose the Japanese audio for the hilarious engrish
We got vengeance finally.
Did you really?
Thank you so much for making this video. I hope Sega sees this, because these are such underrated games nowadays. I don't even have SA2 yet, but I can't wait to get it. Why? Because of SA1! I remember being terrified of whether or not I'd like it because of the criticism. But I had so much fun with every gameplay style, except Big the Cat. I don't listen to the critics anymore. I cannot wait to play SA2. And when I get a TH-cam channel, I am going to defend this series and see if I can help get Sega to make SA3.
Update: I got SA2, finished all 3 stories, and I loved it! Even the Knuckles/Rouge and Tails/Eggman stages. Definitely my favorite game of all time!
SEGA won't see this because Ruby is not as popular as Arin and Jared (yes, he got his popularity back despite not deserving it) or even Peanut Butter Gamer.
They listen to the detractors for no reason other than they're big shots. Especially Arin, despite how he treats the ENTIRE series like garbage.
I... love this... so much.
In particular, I especially appreciate the points about "transformations" and guns.
I've only ever seen two other people acknowledge why people thinking Shadow is Sonic in-universe makes perfect sense. First from a blog on Blogspot called "THE SONIC PROJECT: An adventure in hypothetical videogame design", which unfortunately, no longer exists, and then again in a video from Nick on Planet Ripple after I passed along the info to him. But even then, I'd never considered the cover-up angle that you brought up.
And yes, the guns thing. I've more or less harped on about that numerous times. To this day, you still see people acting so shocked that Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) had guns in it, and that it seems so out-of-place that they "assumed it was an April Fools joke" when it was announced. Why? There had been guns in nearly every single game up to that point, EVEN REALISTIC ONES. Plus, this is all in a game that follows up on Sonic Adventure 2, which includes terrorism, genocide, WMDs, governmental conspiracies, military corruption, espionage, sabotage, a bombing, breaking and entering, vigilantism, theft, a hostage situation where a gun is pointed to a girl's head, genetic tampering, self-sacrifice, and the end of the world. But, ohhhhh... Shadow holding a gun is apparently way too dark and serious somehow... in a series that had always been serious from Day 1, except in, like, Sonic Shuffle or something.
I hope this video gets around. I hope it gets around far.
Lugbzurg People weren’t shocked that Shadow the Hedgehog featured guns. They were shocked that Shadow HIMSELF was using a gun. Nobody really cared about guns being in other games was because the main character wasn’t using them, going against sensible gameplay elements for a fucking Sonic game.
And to discuss the darker elements, those were never taken completely seriously because the game was never trying to be completely serious. You could have Eggman blowing up the moon and have Tails say a stupid line afterward. The problem with Shadow is that everything is taken seriously, no moments of levity.
If you're "shocked" by the sight of Shadow with a gun, then you're way to easily-shocked. What's it matter if it's the main character or not? Especially when it's a DIFFERENT character from the norm? There was already shooting in gameplay multiple times before then. There were already realistic as well as over-the-top guns multiple times previously. And in what universe do guns go against the sensible gameplay elements of Sonic? I'm pretty sure titles like Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time and almost every 90s FPS ever would like to have a word with you.
Lugbzurg I wouldn’t say people were shocked in a “horror movie gory blood” way, it more be a “Are you fucking kidding me?” way. And the problem with Shadow using a gun is that, unlike a normal human like GUN Soldier #43, Shadow is a cartoon hedgehog that goes really fast and has a deep voice. He’s cared about by the community and to go against EVERYTHING people really wanted with a potential Shadow spin-off, that’s not good design. And it doesn’t matter if the character is different from the norm, when your game about shooting up everything is set in a world with colorful characters and backdrops and it’s not done in a comedic way, you know you done fucked up.
Also, you can’t really compare the realistic(ish) guns of Shadow to laser guns on a mech, how it was usually done in the past. There weren’t realistic guns in any of the past games used by characters who weren’t in cutscenes or soldiers who you kill with one boop. Now, to compare Shadow to Ratchet & Clank and 90s shooters is a very dumb argument because those games knew how to do it well by making it really fun to play around with. Shadow doesn’t do gun gameplay well. You can absolutely have gun gameplay in a game like this and if it’s fun and makes sense, then you’ve won me over.
There were cops in the opening cutscene of Sonic Adventure gunning down Chaos. There were even bullet casings. GUN surrounded Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2... with guns... in order to arrest him. Omega was armed with twin miniguns in Sonic Heroes. Gamma's entire gameplay in Sonic Adventure. The fact that Tails and Eggman shoot everything in Sonic Adventure 2, even to the point where Eggman held Amy at gunpoint. Also, how does something being in a cutscene mean it doesn't count? Riddle me that.
Also, you really can't argue that Shadow using guns was "against EVERYTHING people really wanted with a potential Shadow spin-off" when THAT WAS THE ENTIRE REASON THE GAME EVEN EXISTS IN THE FIRST BLOODY PLACE! Seriously! The initial spark of inspiration came from Sonic Team constantly receiving fan letters asking for Sonic to use guns! They thought it wouldn't fit quite well for Sonic, but it would be more logical for Shadow, considering he grew up in a militaristic environment where people were developing weapons. What in the bloody world are you on about?
Also, how much have you actually watched cartoons? Namely action cartoons? Batman: The Animated Series, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and... heck... even LOONEY TOONS all have guns in them! This isn't SpongeBob, it's an action series.
Also, I love this bit...
"Now, to compare Shadow to Ratchet & Clank and 90s shooters is a very dumb argument because those games knew how to do it well by making it really fun to play around with."
You COMPLETELY changed your argument. You tried to tell me that guns don't work with the gameplay elements of a Sonic game... a highspeed platformer. So I provided multiple examples of it being done with critical acclaim. What's more is that this does absolutely nothing to disprove the idea that it makes sense for a military experiment who grew up in a weapons facility to use guns.
So... you're telling me... when Sonic Adventure 2 explored terrorism, genocide, WMDs, governmental conspiracies, military corruption, a gunpoint hostage situation, vigilantism, breaking and entering, a prison break, death by electric chair, the potential end of the world, and yes... both playable and realistic firearms multiple times then, before, and immediately afterwards, that was all a-ok... but a simple gun in the hand of a military experiment is shocking and unfitting?
Ok, dude.
Lugbzurg First of all, your examples of guns in Sonic being perfectly fine aren’t good because of at least one of these reasons:
A) It was only used in a cutscene for a few seconds.
B) No shots were actually fired and only appeared in a cutscene for a few seconds.
C) The gun is still cartoony.
And it matters that it’s in a cutscene because not a center point of the gameplay. The whole game’s main gimmick is gun gameplay. SA1, 2, and Heroes weren’t utilizing guns unless it was cartoony and fun to play with.
Your next paragrah exactly proves one point that should be made: the customer is only wrong when he asks for dumb stuff. Unless you’re younger than 16 you probably don’t want Sonic or Shadow blasting enemies with a gun. Your next point about cartoons is rendered moot when you realize all of those cartoons never have the main character use a gun. Only the villains use guns. You contradicted yourself in your very argument.
The thing with your next argument is that you really only gave me 2 examples and left one really vague and general so I had to assume what you were talking about. But then I immediately thought of Contra. The thing with that game is that Contra feels like it was built with gun gameplay and platforming simultaneously in mind to keep it fair. Shadow the Hedgehog feels like it was built with Sonic Heroes with guns added in at the last minute. And no, it doesn’t make sense for Shadow to use a gun anyway because he never really DID grow up around guns. He always around Maria. Why would he be trained with guns if he’s already the ultimate lifeform?
And when it comes to your last point, I don’t think SA2 handled any of those themes well, and neither did Shadow. I don’t really think SA2 is a really good game in general, but that’s not my point. And it’s also not fair to simplify Shadow the Hedgehog’s themes while also overplaying SA2’s themes and blowing them out of porportion. And again, it’s not shocking in the way you make it seem. Do I have to repeat my points again? Christ.
Anyway, I’m really having fun, so keep replying with more stupid bullshit only a 13-year old would say, and I’ll get my kicks. But please, refrain from doing so anytime in the next couple hours. I need to rest my head.