So, Take-Two went on a copyright-strike rampage, removed their 3 most iconic titles from sale then branded this mobile travesty as "Definitive" Edition. They've lost their minds.
And of course the Xbox versions of GTA III and Vice City are not backwards compatible with the latest Xbox systems while all three Max Payne games and even MANHUNT are.
I can't believe Rockstar gave a big project like this to a mobile game developer. Games of this magnitude deserve a dev like Bluepoint Games. Rockstar has been giving GTA fans the middle finger for years now.
@@travisbickle4360 I would gladly take that if it meant the games would be good and could eventually come to PC. It's basically unplayable on switch anyways
What makes this unbelievable, to me, is that Rockstar and Take2 had a treasure trove of passionate modders who gave so much to make these games look better, and yet decided to go with a studio which had already proven they couldn't do their work properly. I'm gonna bet none of the management who approved this ever even played a game from the original series.
Totally agree. They made the choice to remake it in UE4 and it still has all these issues. The whole point of UE4 is take the heavy lifting off the developer to spend more time on the game. There are a lot of amature issues with this version of the game. You can tell this re-make is made by inexperienced developers. Feels like a team of juniors put it together as fast as possible with no art director and no understanding of the artistic choices made in the original version.
It will still sell. The whole plan is to monopolize and monetize. Who cares about the quality of the mods as long as the proceeds do not turn into dollars for the suits? They shall be eliminated and thats what Rockstar did.
That is *THE SINGLE WORST* rain effect I've ever seen in a video game, regardless of what generation it released. Rockstar should be ashamed to have let something like that out the door. Wow!
Yeah it’s horrendous. When I saw it while playing San Andreas I just about threw up. But that is just one problem in the sea of problems with this release. This was downright disrespectful to its fans.
It's funny cause i was able to create rain of about the same quality as that one or maybe even better and I am just a student who did it in like a few days as an addition. I probably could make a far better one if i tried.
Still baffled that a “Definitive Edition” (backed by a company with all the GTAV online money, I might add) looks & runs like an Early Access asset flip game from Steam.
We really need to top paying these people... maybe we should all take a break from video games for a year or two. From new video games I mean. We can still play the crap outta all the good old ones!
@@subashchandra9557 Companies have been doing this shit quite a lot recently. Nintendo took down streamers and modders who were emulating their old games on newer hardware, only to release the same games behind a subscription paywall. It could be a possibility that soon every major publisher will make it so that the only way you can play their games would be through a subscription based service on their own launchers.
The moment I found out that "The Definitive Edition" was a remastering of the awful mobile ports outsourced to the very creators of such said awful mobile ports, my heart broke. Absolutely revolting. Rockstar should be ashamed.
x86-64 architecture is reason why. Because having a standard computer architecture makes it so easy to port games, the lack of supposed "definition" makes these kind of world pasttimes a quantity over quality product that they have no intention of improving. Easy money, thank the console industry for bowing down to the computer emulation providers & switching to x-86-64.
@@dazza2350 Eh? Everyone's a tough guy on the internet. Don't worry, I'm sure someone will belittle you when you're upset that your favorite sport's team has lost a playoff, your favorite movie franchise has been co-opted to push an agenda, or your favorite painting has had red paint splattered upon it by some climate activist. "Grow up lil bro it's a *insert_name*" Lulz
@@Ingel_Riday6690 lol mobile version actually feels way much better than definitive addition Mobile version actually feels like and playout like orginal
I'm absolutely astonished that R* allowed this out of the door in this kind of state. These games are so beloved to so many people and to see them handled with such little care is actually quite upsetting
The big companies dont care anymore, its to easy to sell stuff. But my thumb rule always been that at most 3 to 4 games a year is actually good, rest skip
There is literally not one good reason they let the game release in this state. It makes them look like incompetent, callous hypocrites and they're so busted that it's apparent even to more casual audiences. I've never given Rockstar/Take2 any money since the only GTA I played was Chinatown Wars on the DS (and I got it used way after release), but this ensures that I won't buy any of what they put out in the future. It's like they're content to just treat their audience as idiots to be exploited. Pathetic.
You’re way too kind, this is a piece of shit and an insult to the fans and consumers. They laughed at us and thought we were going to buy this crap. Not me, at least.
The irony is that the "old" Rockstar Games would have parodied this horrendous screw up as a commentary on corporate greed and anti-consumer practices in one of their games. They've become what they use to laugh at.
I agree, but to be fair, the developers that did this remaster were known for their ports of the mobile versions of past GTA games, all of which were widely hated. Rockstar is to blame for letting these people remaster a very beloved series of games, they should’ve taken this more seriously.
@@kush6846 That's what makes this even worse. Rockstar literally came back to them to do this remaster knowing how badly they effed up the mobile versions. My only thought was maybe they wanted to save a buck so they hired those clowns again even though Rockstar has millions from stupid Shark Cards...maybe billions?
My favorite way to play these is the "PS2 on PS4" versions where it's the original versions of GTA 3, Vice City, and San Andreas upscaled to 1080p. I remember buying the trilogy on iPad when they first released and immediately hating those versions.
Rockstar: “After rereleasing GTA5 for nearly a decade and making billions, we need you to remaster the PS2 GTA games.” Studio: “Great, what’s our budget?” Rockstar: “The best I can do is $10.”
I think your point about the style clashing is the most important. It's why I don't "get" a remaster like this. Throwing in upscaled textures and modern graphic technologies doesn't work, in my opinion, with a game of this age at all. As far as I'm concerned, the REVC and RE3 projects brought to these games what they needed but we all know how that went.
This is the problem I had with demons souls remaster as well. Sure, the game looks amazing, but it lost the atmosphere of most areas in return. The more realistic a game looks, the harder it becomes to try and make a specific atmosphere because you lose freedom in style and aesthetics.
The problem is that most causal gamers are only impressed with graphics much like a newborn baby is with shiny keys. So, devs are obsessed with hyper-realistic graphics so their games sell like blockbusters. Meaning stylized games are dying. so when they try to take old games and remaster them, they're taking away the stylization in an attempt to make it more hyper-realistic and in turn ruin the entire atmosphere and artistic vision of the original. I'm in the minority who hated the RE2R and loved the RE1R. Which is why if they make RE4R I'm not getting it.
@@connoc5078 Hey.\I don't think this is true at all- with more power comes more freedom to create an atmosphere (original or new). Contrast to what Bluepoint usually does (remasters), this time they had more control with DS - making it a remake.. They're not the original creators so either they a) didn't understand the importance of the original atmosphere or b) they did, but didn't think the change in style would be poorly viewed by the audience!
They want people to give up to this flashy amateur monstrosity so they end shifting to the new titles.. the kids and brainwashed point out that "we are blinded by nostalgia", "expected too much", "its not Richstar's fault", "they will fix it".. this is not the original game, not a tribute by any means but a butchering, and calling this definitive or "remaster" is utter scam. Its a noxious mobile revamp targeted to kids based on the mobile version.
It’s wildly distracting to the point I can’t even focus on what’s going on. And I’m not even picky with graphics, especially for this older series. A locked framerate and resolution bump is more than enough for me but my god that rain lol
@@gilpiper3564 its textured so poorly and the fact that you can literally see it following you around and ocean textures are stacked on top of the rain like holy cow
John: "So I have to know. What does the master mind behind digital foundry think of this? Which version do you recommend, Richard?" Richard: "No" John: "I concur" That's a solid answer, ngl.
Grand Theft Auto: Trilogy - The DMCA Edition is a meta game. It's a real life parody of conning people and running away with the money. It's a heist, and so many people fell for it.
With the og versions delisted it doesn't allow for future generations to appreciate the games and nostalgia like we do. Newer gamers will look at this pile of garbage and think that we were all crazy. If Rockstar truly cares about this franchise they'd relist the og trilogy. Or, at the very least allow for them to be played within this trilogy. Edit: Rockstar could be allowing this so that our future expectations will be lowered. Future generations will see Rockstar as just another publisher and not for what it once was.
I own the OG versions on my PC and bought the Definitive Edition for my Switch. I'm really enjoying it overall, the only thing I have an issue with is the frame rate and lack of Billie Jean specifically
@@BongoBrando I am also really enjoying this trilogy on the Switch. I don't see what all the fuss is about lol.. it's still a really good game and nostalgic. Just a few patches and it's perfect for the Switch! O.o!
14:35 I'm sure you meant GTA 3 only, but San Andreas did actually add this in with the PS2 release and those after! Shadows were switched to real-time dynamic stencils and they did move along with you as the sun did, actually, much better than the "definitive" version as they moved very smoothly, instead of the transitions you get here every 5 in-game minutes. Even car headlights created shadows from the environment, it looked rather well for the games enthusiastic and demanding size. Driving at night through Whetstone's countryside while playing on an old CRT TV was awesome as a kid. Viewing time-lapse videos of the 3 cities is still beautiful to this day on the aging PS2.
The rain looks like something I did back in 2001. Also, you can talk about how it's almost impossible to see through, how it has sorting issues when rendering etc... But the fact that it follows the cameras movements and completely glitch out in some camera orientations is probably the must nausea inducing thing of it all That the games got released with all these small technical issues etc, especially against the backdrop of being so aggressive against the modding community, comes of as not having much respect for their audience. Calling this the "definitive edition" when community mods running on the old engine look better and has fewer issues is such a disconnect. A "remaster" sure... But the "definitive edition"? Look at Mafia and how they handled making a definitive edition, that was a real upgrade into a more modern gaming landscape.
For all it's flaws, Halo CE Anniversary Edition took a game from the same area and made it look more modern without making it look like a cheap asset flip. It's very apparent that getting a mobile developer with sub-par devs to make your "definitive edition" in what looks to be a weekend or two was never going to turn out well. Rockstar and Take Two don't give to craps about their fans.
Honestly, despite all the shit I gave Halo CE anniversary, especially in its original form where I consider it both a bad remaster and a bad port of the original, even that is still better than this trainwreck.
@@chrisfratz Whats wrong with halo ce anniversary? I’ve played it back in 2012 and I liked how u can revert to the original graphics. It still plays the same.
@@Futurafree925 on the Xbox 360 version it wasn't the original Xbox graphics, rather it was the graphics from the PC port by gearbox which were significantly downgraded some of its extra visual effects like the Shields and bump mapping were broken. And I wasn't particularly fond of how the anniversary graphics looked, because I found them too noisy in terms of all the detail and with how bright they were in the lighting. In my opinion the anniversary graphics just don't match the feel that Bungie was trying to go for in the original. Also the fact that the anniversary geometry doesn't perfectly match up with the original geometry is a problem especially when things like trees that you can hide behind for cover are not as wide as they were in the original graphics, meaning you can say for example line up a sniper shot, only to then try to take the shot and end up hitting a wall that you can't see.
@@Nick-zp1cs still doesn't fix the fact that it ignores the atmosphere and feel of the original graphics. It's not that I don't like the anniversary graphics on a technical level, because on a technical level they look really good. Artistically and stylistically it just doesn't match with the original and that's the reason why I don't like it.
"Technically it's more detailed, but it doesn't actually look better to the eye in practice." And that's half the problem with this remake in one sentence =D
@@scaryKILLERwhoKILLSpeople exactly like forza horizon 5 things you cant see through heavy motion blur like ground textures and details unless you stop the car when drawing distance is still horrible so it actually may look even worse
It's even funnier when you get to see how modders used the slightly upgraded system from San Andreas on Renderware & it managing to look vastly superior in every way 😆
I finally got the play San Andreas last night and the rain will literally stop and change direction if you fly certain directions. Baffling level of incompetence.
If they did an engine conversion, why not use the GTA V engine. You can probably reuse a lot of what has been written and animated for that game, and with the right conversion the would would have definitely been less work then unreal.
@@braddl9442 it’s ridiculous that they decided to get mobile devs to remaster 3 of the most prestigious games in history. These are big games and they got a mediocre team to remaster them and release them on all platforms as well. It’s ridiculous, this should have been handled by the main rockstar studios. It should have been a love letter to the fans of the old games and a great introduction for their newer audiences. This “definitive edition” appeals to no one. I also refuse to buy GTA V for a third time especially if this is what rockstars definition of “definitive” is. It’s a huge disrespect and the final nail in the coffin for rockstar and take two to redeem them selfs.
Exactly. They saw Unreal Engine saw how easy it was to click the ''enable raytracing'' box and LITERALLY AND UNIRONICALLY asset flipped the GTA trilogy. What's worse is this is literally the worst asset flip i've ever seen.
THIS COMMENT RIGHT HERE. And yet people still think the Switch version is somehow the worst when it ironically fixes the rain issue by downgrading it? I don't get it.
@@fullmetalu320 And they delisted the originals for these garbage versions. I don't think these can be salvaged at all, they need to throw it all in the garbage bin and start over (and maybe NOT with the mobile versions this time, eh?).
@@Zeruss01 THIS was the biggest slap in the face. Delisting the originals! Why couldn't they give us the option to have either or, or both! They probably knew this was going to be garbage.
I really like the colors going on, it's a nice aesthetic. It's too bad I didn't play these in their heyday because I just cannot get over the clunky controls now.
@@winlover37 Controls are fine, it's literally standard modern stuff. Just take some getting used to. It also has auto aim, so what's more to ask. PC version has a different camera and control scheme, and you can switch to classic PS2 mode. Try that if mouse and keyboard with manual aim works better for you.
You know I’m gonna be honest I see a difference for a remastered game it doesn’t look night at day when it comes to the characters models but the environments look good it would have been better to do a full remake
25:30 what made the PS2 era versions not have so much of the feel of objects floating was the fake car shadows and blob shadows for characters. Frankly I'd take those over that ghastly looking AO in any of the "definitive" versions!
Performance aside, what a disappointing lack of artistry or coherent art direction. Thanks John for the detailed analysis as always, you've sold me on so many games old and new but you also let me know when to stop listening to the voice in my head that says 'it will be fine after its patched'.
Something is clearly wrong with performance in this game. My Radeon 6800 which usually pulls 200w and max utilization is only pulling 50 watts maybe. It’s terrible. Getting maybe 80 fps then just tanks to 40 fps. During cutscenes the card cranks up to 200 watts and then frame rate shoots up to 200.
Yes. I'm glad to see they didn't just talk about performance (sometimes DF goes in on performance neglecting other issues.) Yes performance is bad, but the artistic decisions are pretty terrible in this game.
The annihilation of the game’s visual tone and atmosphere (one of the best aspects about III) thanks to zero colour filters, more natural lighting and heavy contrast, is the single biggest reason I don’t play the remaster… which is saying something considering I could make a list of everything worse about it. It’s not GTA III with its distinctly dreary and dark feel. It loses its off-kilter charm.
People act surprised that Rockstar/Take Two would do this after the people themselves made GTA V one of the highest earning video games in history, to the point it was bringing in 2.5 million a day. The company skimped out with single player dlc to focus on multiplayer and shark card micro transactions. (Credit where it's due though, they saw what made them money and stuck with it) But then with all that money, how did they repay our loyalty to the company and GTA name? They give us this. It's so hilarious Rockstar pretty much shut down the modding community for this. Dudes on no budget and sometimes working alone can produce better results than a company with the backing of a behemoth like Take Two and Rockstar. What an absolute joke. If you're ever asked what is the opposite of definitive, point to this collection.
Man, props to John for putting up with all these versions... Must have been painful. At least it was an excuse to boot up the old PS2 and Xbox versions.
Stark contrast with the insane amount of effort put in the coverage of the game by DF. It almost makes me mad they had to waste so much time and resources covering this pile of trash
Actually a minimum effort would of been alot better then this garbage. .they should of just gotten the original version and set the resolution to 1080p or 4k. And left it alone. And it would of been better then this mess.
I mean it was done by the same studio that did the San Andreas port for ps3/xbox360, and just like this “definitive edition” that port was also a low effort cash grab that was never patched or corrected.
I'd rather buy a PS2 and a CRT to play this than the remastered version. The game lost so much of its visual flair, let alone the technical issues. What an embarrassment for Rockstar and a huge disappointment for somebody like me who went out and bought the original 20 years ago. GTA III literally inspired my career choice at the time and here we are with this disgrace of a game. What a shame.
Wait, you were inspired to become a career criminal thanks to GTA III? I'm just kidding. ;) I agree 100% with you that this "thing" they've made is an absolute disgrace. You would expect them to at least have a bit of respect. If not for the players, at least for their legacy. The games that secured the position they have been benfitting from for years now. This is not just releasing a bad and unfinished game (that has become the standard these days when big companies are involved), this is pissing on your legacy to squeeze some money out of people that are looking for a nostalgia trip.
The awful way R* has treated its own games over the years is just infuriating. Going so far as 'updating' the PC versions with inferior mobile ports and removing a whole chunk of the soundtrack. Dreadful.
I'm so glad that I bought all these games on Steam a long time ago. I'm still really pissed at Rockstar for depriving fans of the old versions but at least Rockstar doesn't get to decide whether I can play them or not
That's an insult to the beta version, the beta versions of these gta games usually have extra features that get removed in the final product. Like how the beta version of San Andreas had skateboards and the beta version of Vice City had landmines.
10:07 actually, none of the vehicles in the definitive edition games use taillights at night, nor do they have working reverse lights. This is because Grove Street Games didn’t bother to distinguish brake lights form taillights.
@@BlackTone91 They took the decision to begin the project, then they took the decision to farm it out to these *mobile developers* , then they reviewed the lame work of said *mobile developers* and decided to release it. They *did* make them, in every sense that matters. Even when Rockstar *did* do all the hands-on work on these games, 20 years ago, they were still broken buggy glitchy messes back then. Take it from someone who played them on PC back then (and still has the CDs!). Rockstar's attitude has *always* been one of "good enough" rather than actually chasing high quality (at least from after their name change from DMA Design).
These gta remasters demonstrate perfectly how "better" graphics and more detailed textures don't always lead to a game being better. Having newer graphics can often make the original atmosphere vanish. That's the same problem I had with the demons souls remake. It looked great but the atmosphere and style just wasn't there in most areas in my opinion and they didn't change anything else so it's not worth playing it over the original.
Yeah exactly, the original Demon's Souls had a really strong art direction but the remake shat all over it. For example the architecture of Boletarian Palace is heavily based on early medieval European fortresses, and NOT gothic architecture, but the remake changed it anyway, I guess because Dark Souls 3 did that and hey that game sold well! I have no desire to play the remake whatsoever since it feels so off compared to the atmosphere of the original game.
THANK YOU. Seemed I was the only one who felt the same about the Demon Souls remake. It didn't resemble the vision FromSoft had nor the atmosphere they created with their games.
@@Bluesine_R wait, how did the remake change the Boletarian palace from medieval to gothic? It still looks pretty medieval to me (I haven't reached the 3rd area yet btw)
@@cacomeat7385 They should've just remastered those, finally fixing those versions & shipping them fully completed would've done the games more justice... Perhaps give that same treatment to SA too, but GSG doesn't actually have that good of a track record for basically anything they've done. 🤔
In defense to the developer Grove Street Games, developing a remaster with (supposedly) high level of scope and ambition in mind is one that absolutely needs the necessary time, resource and assistance. Porting a whole assets from the former old game into a brand new environment of a modern game engine alone isn't always be easy job, let alone doing so over *three* games simultaneously in a very short time (I heard they're only given 2 years to develop the remaster) while targeting for multi-platform releases. This is esp. a big deal because GSG are absolutely small and perhaps understaffed studio for this job. They're made up of just 21 developers staffed in the studio for a record, probably always relying upon outsourced freelance developers out there, and funny enough they're not even a Rockstar subsidiary yet despite its name. You can proof check this on the "career" page on Rockstar website and Rockstar's LinkedIn page, you won't find them because GSG has its own separate website and LinkedIn page.
All Rockstar really had to do was port the original PC/Console versions over, then apply the touch ups. Even better, just get the permissions from the community who already done the work for you and just polish it up for a current gen' experience. Would have been far cheaper and more affective than this abomination.
Using modds is very difficult legally since the modders can't claim ownership of them. Also selling them is illegal since it's unauthorized change of copyrighted software. If Rockstar wanted to do that they would need to sign legal deals with each of the modders which is a very time consuming thing to do.
I'm curious why this happened. No dev team wants to put out a bad product, it can't feel good getting all this negative feedback. Wonder if they only had like a month for each game or a tiny budget, who knows?
tbh i can't blame the developer after read note in the code, i can feels their frustration to do impossible job. i blame the management who let this project to happen.
@@arbiter- Maybe. Hard to imagine every single employee was dispassionate about the project right? Either that or management didn't have a damn and released it anyway
Such an iconic trilogy, one of the most influential, and this is how Rockstar treats it? The art style looks completely off, almost like a caricature of itself, they've cut content and it runs like ass. They've been raking in billions of dollars from GTA 5 for 9 years now, they could have done so much better.
They could have completely re-written the game, and used motion technology like in LA Noire with all that money, but hey, that'd be Rockstar in a perfect world......
This comment really puts it in perspective. GTA V is one of, if not the most, profitable entertainment product of all time. With that, Rockstar couldn't be bothered to give the classic games that built up the franchise's legacy the respect and care needed to make a solid remaster. I'm glad Rockstar's bullshit is starting to become widely talked about because they've been on the decline since Red Dead Online IMO.
Well done John. The part with Richard just saying "no" cracked me up. This collection is sadly a collection of remasters that need a 2nd remaster. I wish they put the time into just GTA 3 instead of all 3 games for this anniversary and handled it in house. I think the responsibility lays with the ignorance and lack of quality control at Take2. It's really sad.
I cannot even fathom the level of incompetence required from a company that has more net worth than some small countries to make this disaster even possible.
Yeah bro R* wanted to remake the games but could'nt be bothered to use their own developers to do so. The trilogy looks like one of those no budget cheap unity projects on android Playstore.
If the games were straight up ported based on the original RenderWare engine with no graphical enhancements whatsoever, a 120FPS performance mode could have been possible.
The analogy I used in my Metacritic review was this reminded me of taking a photocopy of a document, copying it, then copying THAT copy, then copying THAT copy. With each successive copy, it loses its original design and quality until you’re left with having to take cuts from multiple decent copies to create one so-so copy. That’s what they did here. It’s a copy of the mobile port with parts lifted from other ports, which themselves were copies of other ports, and they cobbled them together with scotch tape and glue sticks. The fact that this is, at its core, a port of the MOBILE game and repeatedly drops into the 40 FPS range with bad frame pacing on both Series X and PS5, especially with these lower poly world graphics, is nothing less than atrocious. And from my experience, GTA3 is the *least worst* of the three in the package, so the comparisons of VC and SA should be… interesting.
I would use the analogy of playing the game of telephone. One person says a sentence to another person, and they then tell what they heard to another. Then many people down the line you end up with a totally different sentence then when you started.
I wanted to say same. I was very happy when they announce remaster. I enjoed Mafia editions, because at time of originals i didnt have strong pc, and i dont have ps2. I was very happy for this, because i didnt play Vice City, and Gta 3 for same reason. Now im watching reviews, and i cant believe it. Eh
The audacity they have to call this "Definitive Edition".. The absolute gall... Unbelievable!! Sony pulled Cyberpunk from their store for being garbage, they should pull this as well.
I'd rather play the original game versions with the original soundtracks on PC or even through PCSX2 with high render resolution. This definitive edition is only definitive in name.
It seems like they put the most effort into vice city (pretty good cutscenes and generally looking better overall), the most energy of character models into 3 (not sure why), and overall least into San Andreas (broken models, glitches, easy fixes from the original ps2 version).
If Rockstar could just take their eyes off GTAOnline, this wouldn't have happened. They have really swayed from who they were and it's such a shame. If this the attention they have to the games that made then who they are now, I'm not too sure how GTA 6 and the future will be.
Remember this was handed off to another studio. Many remasters are even some of the best like shadow of the colossus or saints row 3. Most studios do this so they can work on there main line games. So this probably won't affect future GTA games. My question is why had it to a studio that specializes on phone ports and already had bad publicity for there GTA phone port.
Uhhhh??? Maybe like red dead redemption 2? I’ve said this so many times since the expanded and enhanced trailer but it seems like people have somehow forgotten about the master piece that was rdr2
@@myfatassdick Rdr2 was already in development before Rockstar saw the potential of what GTAOnline would become. It's one of the last best things that came from them before they've completely lost their identity. It's telling from how Rdr2 Online is, how there's no GTAV single player dlc but instead they kept churning out GTAOnline content for the past few years.
Agree. They won't be getting any more of my money. I gave up on GTA a year after 5 was released. GTA 4 was way better, both in terms of realism with the physics, etc, and it wasn't bloated unlike GTA Online. RockShite can go bankrupt, because that's where they're headed.
@@supergeekjay as much as we all want it bankrupt is not something they will become. They have built such an empire and following there will always be someone to pick up their shitty games, compare it to the call of duty franchise
The 30 FPS frame pacing issues seem to happen when devs just set a 30 FPS cap with full 60 hz vsync. You need to actually use proper “half refresh Vsync” and a framerate cap not just a framerate cap, but devs don’t seem to even know this. Simply using 60 hz full blown Vsync and tossing a framerate cap in there will result in these kinds of frame pacing issues as when it can it’ll just jump back up to 60 for a brief moment since that’s what Vsync expects and most limiters aren’t “perfect” in their delivery timing. Vsync needs to “know” that you want it to wait for every other refresh cycle so that it doesn’t intermittently jump up to 60 like this (hence proper half refresh Vsync being required). There’s a reason Nvidia has this as an option in their driver. EDIT: They talked about this in one of their recent directs (why bad frame pacing happens) and it seems I’m on the money. They use Bloodborne as an example and what the game is doing is setting an internal FPS cap, “but” with no half refresh synchronization to the display.
Most of the devs are new. And younger devs don't know alot of detailed stuff, Most of the original devs that knew all the tricks on the book leaved a long time ago sadly.
@@dnegel9546 horizon 5 is so polished that I've been trying just to see how low it can go, underclock my cpu and gpu so much with medium graphics settings and keep hitting stable 60fps, I think it would run on switch no problems. So you get the idea I can manage to keep the battery stable with usbC charger in one Asus ROG with rtx2060. And even low graphics still look good at 720p on a 15.4 screen. What a masterpiece in optimization.
@@xtreamerpt7775 I go back and forth between performance and quality (XSX) and I can't tell the difference either way. Both look good to me. Would not surprise me if switch could pull it off.
@@dnegel9546 i can tell badly on horizon 5 i feel it in the response and can see the 30fps with my eyes immediately i have to play it in 60 on my series x however I will admit it is one of the better 30 fps games
I love the grittiness in the art style of the original version. That's all lost with DE. Everything is lit up and flat with no contrast. Of course that's only one thing out of dozens of glaring issues. A shame for sure and I was too young to play these games when they came out.
You can pirate the old ones on PC just fine. They hold up well and are a lot of fun. I don't think there's anything morally wrong with that, considering R* deleted the old versions from the stores.
@@Zhohan- I'd also like to add that there are mods that keep the aesthetic of these PS2 games while managing to have better visuals at the same time. Way better than this official release.
I played them when they released and for me this is a huge slap in the face. It's been know for years that the mobile ports are trash and that's what they decided to remaster 🤦
"Hey boss, look at my up-res algorithm that I've been working for 2 days" "Let's apply this to 3 old GTA games and we can sell them as brand new AAA game" "Wait, what?"
Its honestly baffling how often this has to be said lol. Game after game burn after burn people still pre-order anything and everything and then surprise pikachu face
Even when you see gameplay NEVER preorder games. Unless it is 1 day before release. Don't support scammy devs tactics. By preordering you give them a message that they can do whatever they want because they already have your money. So they can even cut 40% of content and sell it on DLC, cause you will still buy it like a sheep
I don't pre-order games for this exact reason. Sadly, I got so excited to play these games in a handheld form factor (I already have the originals on PC), I pre-ordered them on switch. That's what I get for ignoring my own rule.
i’m 54 and i’ve gamed since i was 11. We had an Atari, a Binatone and games took an eternity to load. We played missile command, Asteroids, defender, track and field growing up and can remember buying GTA a few months after release, long before the internet that we know now. We played for literally days the story, found cheats online for infinite money, weapons, but this game was way out there. I’m a RDO fan and have realised how much R⭐️ and Take Two really don’t care anymore!
This is unacceptable the way they rush the game so much. It was purely a cash grab. Thanks for the analyses John. I will play the old version on my PS2
@@mianlo2624 It is the cylce of easy money grab. Once you get something easy you will automatically try less. Also to be honest the releases of GT 4 for ps3 and gta 3 for smart phones also are pretty bad. ,,,
@@majormononoke8958 I only played San Andreas on PS3, so I can't really give opinion of other two. I got stuck at flight school because a bug prevented me from passing.
@@majormononoke8958 GTA4 on PS3 isn't that bad considering how ambitious the game was for its time and the fact that PS3 architecture was so complicated all devs had trouble early on.
They want people to give up to this flashy amateur monstrosity so they end shifting to the new titles.. the kids and brainwashed point out that "we are blinded by nostalgia", "expected too much", "its not Richstar's fault", "they will fix it".. this is not the original game, not a tribute by any means but a butchering, and calling this definitive or "remaster" is utter scam
This is why I enjoy NightDive's contributions when it comes to remasters - they don't mess with the original graphics too much and updates it in areas where it's truly needed. It's ridiculous and superficial that every classic game needs to remade into a modern looking game at the expense of the original atmosphere which garners a capricious result. I question if the people that demand for this sort of thing are even fans.
Some of us are just not stupid and we aren't interested in paying full price for games that were released 2 decades ago. If you want to remaster it and then bring it to this generation standards, otherwise release cashgrabs like these shit and let the fanboys defend you. It's cheaper.
@@thanasisthanos2152 for real , when talking about remaster ESPECIALLY a game that is 20 year old , you think the remaster could be a way to show respect by making it look current gen but still maintaining what the og game is , look at other remaster or remake like Resident Evil 2 , and Resident Evil 3 and Final Fantasy 7 , all of this game is old af but still manage to remaster to look current gen and peform like current gen while maintaining that original feeling of the game
@@nezunish-898 Those games are not remasters. They are full blown remakes. And while they are good, there don't realy have a lot in common with the original game anymore.
Would’ve loved a “legacy mode” where it reverts back to the old graphics but you keep the revamped controls. Just can’t vibe with the new art style regardless of the technical faults.
@@owowowdhxbxgakwlcybwxsimcwx I didn’t realise there was an overhaul thought it was just remapped controls on a controller ngl. Haven’t played SA on pc in a while but I remember flying never being too great in the first place though
x86-64 architecture is reason why. Because having a standard computer architecture makes it so easy to port games, the lack of supposed "definition" makes these kind of world pasttimes a quantity over quality product that they have no intention of improving. Easy money, thank the console industry for bowing down to the computer emulation providers & switching to x-86-64.
@K D Gone at the moment. I picked these up during a sale a few months ago. Before any buzz of a remaster. For that price I pulled the trigger! Games look very crisp compared to their PS2 originals. IDK if its my tv upscaling but they look great on my 4K Samsung Q90R
They messed this game up beyond recognition. Remaster doesn't mean remake. If they wanted to have a new creative take on the game, they should have just done that. It looks horrible, everything's plasticky, it looks flat... It's not shameful, it's a complete scam. And that doesn't surprise me considering this studio was responsible for the HORRIBLE port of SA on 360... But even worse, the performance and the bugs are flat out unaceptable. The fact that Rockstar put pressure on the modders from the originals, and even more, retiring the originals from purchase is baffling. Now the only thing remaining is this shit.
Yes, this version is objectively terrible. However, I think the biggest advantage of this port is that, its done in a modern engine. The mod possibilities will be actually amazing. This is unreal engine 4!
No. man i still remember the layouts of those streets.. i guess it was because the city was smaller but there was this feeling of first being lost, then getting more and more familiar and then ending up feeling like you were coming "home" when visiting those starting areas.. there was such a great feeling of progression too in those games
Definitely, especially in San Andreas. I remember staying in Los Santos for much longer than I needed to because I wanted to put off the pleasure of exploring a new city. There were so many great ideas tossed into the game for pure fun: the BMX trials on Mount Chiliad, the brilliant car import export missions(that R* ruined in GTA IV AND V), the burglary missions...none of these side-activities were brilliantly designed but I loved them all, because they were all fun and you never knew where one would pop up. I think I spent at least ten hours just playing pool in a bar in San Fierro. And the photo mode! That they completely ruined in later GTAs by tying it to your phone and not even letting you save them. San Andreas even had pretty cool car customisation, and definitely the best character customisation. Every Rockstar game since then, with the exception of Bully, has been a huge disappointment to me. Something was lost after San Andreas.
Starting to see why Dan Houser and others left Rockstar Games. Word is GTA 6 is in development hell as well. 🤷♂️ Dan always strived for perfection and it looks like parent company Take Two just want to pump out cash grabs hoping the Rockstar Games name is big enough to get away with it. They say they will be releasing 62, yes 62 games in the next 3yrs.
They are consuming them. The thing is, with these studios and publishers is that when the person’s themselves have reached personal wealth. The passion fades. It’s like in politics. What do they care if they fuckedup half a nation. They still take their money home at the end of the day.
Dan Houser, Leslie Benzies and Lazlow were the masterminds behind the GTA games and the creative engine behind Rockstar. All have left. I don't know if Sam Houser is still at Rockstar.
It's a slap in the face to have these versions called "The Definitive Edition", as if they were the only versions worth playing, you find less issues trying to play the games on an old PC with a PS2 emulator. How come Rockstar gave the task of the "definitive" edition of their most cherished games, the ones that made them the giants they are now to an amateur studio. Unacceptable.
I had a small hope that at least eventually it would get patched up and be worth playing all over again. But having looked deeper, I do not believe these ports will ever be worth buying.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
So, Take-Two went on a copyright-strike rampage, removed their 3 most iconic titles from sale then branded this mobile travesty as "Definitive" Edition. They've lost their minds.
They’ve made a lot of money. That is the only thing the people steering the ship are passionate about. Seen that way it all makes perfect sense.
It's the cocain they haven't had enough to make a clear and concise decision
And of course the Xbox versions of GTA III and Vice City are not backwards compatible with the latest Xbox systems while all three Max Payne games and even MANHUNT are.
@@Noname15514 max payne 3 is not compatible
No, the ones who pre-ordered and bought the game on launch before looking at reviews are the ones who lost their minds.
I can't believe Rockstar gave a big project like this to a mobile game developer. Games of this magnitude deserve a dev like Bluepoint Games. Rockstar has been giving GTA fans the middle finger for years now.
Man Bluepoint would've done an amazing job. I love their work. While this remaster is pretty disappointing.
But they would have made it a playstation exclusive.
Just shows how they really "care" about their own franchise
@@travisbickle4360 I would gladly take that if it meant the games would be good and could eventually come to PC. It's basically unplayable on switch anyways
Welcome to "triple A" titles lol
The sad thing is, Rockstar themselves would have made fun of this kind of cash grab years ago in an actual GTA game.
Rockstar didn't make these remasters
@@BlackTone91 but they did publish them
@@BlackTone91 but Rockstar Games is the Publisher
Exactly.
lol remember Take2? shitting on cyberpunk and release this utter bullshit themselve hahah
A small thing I noticed was that there is no longer any trash flying around on the ground! Miss that little detail.
👍👍👍
Same. Why would they remove that?
Can’t unsee
Definitive Edition so bad it makes us long for literal garbage
It’s because the trash came to life and developed this “remaster”
What makes this unbelievable, to me, is that Rockstar and Take2 had a treasure trove of passionate modders who gave so much to make these games look better, and yet decided to go with a studio which had already proven they couldn't do their work properly.
I'm gonna bet none of the management who approved this ever even played a game from the original series.
Think they put the job out to tender and gave it to the owest bidder. I hope they make a huge loss on it. I definitely won't ever buy it.
Totally agree. They made the choice to remake it in UE4 and it still has all these issues. The whole point of UE4 is take the heavy lifting off the developer to spend more time on the game. There are a lot of amature issues with this version of the game. You can tell this re-make is made by inexperienced developers. Feels like a team of juniors put it together as fast as possible with no art director and no understanding of the artistic choices made in the original version.
@@chrisinstasis7986 I'm sure it will sell very well. it's gta
It will still sell. The whole plan is to monopolize and monetize. Who cares about the quality of the mods as long as the proceeds do not turn into dollars for the suits? They shall be eliminated and thats what Rockstar did.
Exactly right. Whenever a game studio messes up this badly, it's ALWAYS a management problem.
How can these games not run at 60fps?? It’s horrendous that Rockstar didn’t quality check these games.
Because people will still buy it and accept that they’ll patch the game later. It’s so crooked.
They obviously were aware of these issues. There's no world QA didn't tell them this.
A game that looks like this should be able to run 4K 120Hz on even Series S
It's been perfectly clear to those outside of shark card money printer hell that Rockstar and take two's interests are singular. Profit.
@@brandonkruse6412 this will never be good
That is *THE SINGLE WORST* rain effect I've ever seen in a video game, regardless of what generation it released. Rockstar should be ashamed to have let something like that out the door. Wow!
The rain on Zelda OoT looked way better, and that was an N64 game!
Yeah it’s horrendous. When I saw it while playing San Andreas I just about threw up. But that is just one problem in the sea of problems with this release. This was downright disrespectful to its fans.
For that rain affect for GTA 3 and Vice City Is still normal becuz the reguler one used this affect but in GTA SA one Is uhhh
It's funny cause i was able to create rain of about the same quality as that one or maybe even better and I am just a student who did it in like a few days as an addition.
I probably could make a far better one if i tried.
I saw rain like that sometimes on a poorly coded emulator once
The rain looks like the snow you'd see in an Old School Runescape Christmas event.
Give me a set of phats in this new GTA release and it'll make up for it.
I love the rain. It’s like angels are splooging all over us - Harley Quinn
Haha yooo
Shoutouts to osrs
Don't you be shittin' on OSRS like that lmfao
I still can't get over the fact it drops to like 15FPS with PS2 graphics, when games like Ratchet and Clank and Returnal run 60fps smoothly
bro it's like that because 15fps is the authentic experience /s
Yo Dolan
15 fps gives you the real cinematic experience.
"PS2 graphics" yeah man i love my volumetric lighting on ps2
@@tysopiccaso8711 it’s ps2 graphics with a few bells and whistles. The volumetric lighting isn’t what caused the shit performance.
Still baffled that a “Definitive Edition” (backed by a company with all the GTAV online money, I might add) looks & runs like an Early Access asset flip game from Steam.
@zak they also sued the modders and removed the original games from stores. peak assholery
Early access without all of the features of Steam. Guess I won't be able to play with a controller on PC
GTA V is the highest grossing product of all time (not just game, ANYTHING beating out movies) and this is the best they could do
Isn't Take-Two the one that cheaped out and hired Grover Street?
We really need to top paying these people... maybe we should all take a break from video games for a year or two. From new video games I mean. We can still play the crap outta all the good old ones!
We've had the definitive edition for 20 years, what a twist!
I just can't believe that they C&D'd a modder who was going to do a better job than this for free, only to have us pay for this absolute travesty.
Best comment ever!
og disc on seies x
@@subashchandra9557 Companies have been doing this shit quite a lot recently. Nintendo took down streamers and modders who were emulating their old games on newer hardware, only to release the same games behind a subscription paywall. It could be a possibility that soon every major publisher will make it so that the only way you can play their games would be through a subscription based service on their own launchers.
@@CoconutFuzz unfortunately that might be happening in the near future since subscription base service is guaranteed profits for such companies.
The moment I found out that "The Definitive Edition" was a remastering of the awful mobile ports outsourced to the very creators of such said awful mobile ports, my heart broke. Absolutely revolting. Rockstar should be ashamed.
x86-64 architecture is reason why. Because having a standard computer architecture makes it so easy to port games, the lack of supposed "definition" makes these kind of world pasttimes a quantity over quality product that they have no intention of improving. Easy money, thank the console industry for bowing down to the computer emulation providers & switching to x-86-64.
@@Benger2185 CPU has nothing to do with it, and never will. It boils down how they made their games, not the architecture of the console.
Grow up lil bro it's a game 💀
@@dazza2350 Eh? Everyone's a tough guy on the internet. Don't worry, I'm sure someone will belittle you when you're upset that your favorite sport's team has lost a playoff, your favorite movie franchise has been co-opted to push an agenda, or your favorite painting has had red paint splattered upon it by some climate activist.
"Grow up lil bro it's a *insert_name*" Lulz
@@Ingel_Riday6690 lol mobile version actually feels way much better than definitive addition
Mobile version actually feels like and playout like orginal
I'm absolutely astonished that R* allowed this out of the door in this kind of state. These games are so beloved to so many people and to see them handled with such little care is actually quite upsetting
The big companies dont care anymore, its to easy to sell stuff. But my thumb rule always been that at most 3 to 4 games a year is actually good, rest skip
Completely disrespectful … 🤦🏽♂️
There is literally not one good reason they let the game release in this state. It makes them look like incompetent, callous hypocrites and they're so busted that it's apparent even to more casual audiences.
I've never given Rockstar/Take2 any money since the only GTA I played was Chinatown Wars on the DS (and I got it used way after release), but this ensures that I won't buy any of what they put out in the future. It's like they're content to just treat their audience as idiots to be exploited. Pathetic.
You’re way too kind, this is a piece of shit and an insult to the fans and consumers. They laughed at us and thought we were going to buy this crap. Not me, at least.
First time?
-Blizzard fans
The irony is that the "old" Rockstar Games would have parodied this horrendous screw up as a commentary on corporate greed and anti-consumer practices in one of their games. They've become what they use to laugh at.
^That comment should've been copypasted everywhere on YT.
You won my friend!
I agree, but to be fair, the developers that did this remaster were known for their ports of the mobile versions of past GTA games, all of which were widely hated. Rockstar is to blame for letting these people remaster a very beloved series of games, they should’ve taken this more seriously.
The Rockstar is now drug addicted and washed up
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain huh.
@@kush6846 That's what makes this even worse. Rockstar literally came back to them to do this remaster knowing how badly they effed up the mobile versions. My only thought was maybe they wanted to save a buck so they hired those clowns again even though Rockstar has millions from stupid Shark Cards...maybe billions?
"Which version do you recommend Richard?"
"NO"
"I concur"
Perfect response and sums it up.
Saved me from watching a 38 minute video, thanks.
@@farhadk if all you were looking for was a recommendation you could have looked anywhere else
I wasn't.
My favorite way to play these is the "PS2 on PS4" versions where it's the original versions of GTA 3, Vice City, and San Andreas upscaled to 1080p. I remember buying the trilogy on iPad when they first released and immediately hating those versions.
Speaking of Richard. Where is DF Direct 37???
"Which version do you recommend, Richard?"
"NO."
This is gold.
I scream laughed at that. Hilarious.
I laughed. i laughed so fucking hard.
Best part of the review, sums up how everyone feels about how much this needed more time in the oven.
I'm in tears
Timestamp?
When John uses adjectives like ‘absurd’ and ‘unacceptable’ you know the subject of the analysis is a real piece of sh*t.
I'm thoroughly enjoying the roast of GTA DE by DF. Grove Street Games should pack their bags and just leave.
Part of me wanted him to break character and say "so anyway, how does this port stack up? It's a fucking piece of dog shit."
Absolutely. He’s trying to be as professional as possibly without just saying they are bad
i cannot believe the base consoles run this at less than 900p, literally
insane
I mean base PS4 runs a lot of games at 900p, but this PS2 game?
@@gurjindersingh3843 base PS4 runs RDR2 at 1080p native :/
@@gurjindersingh3843 no, thats the xbox one, the base ps4 has very few games under 1080p, and even less under 900p
@@tehemister042 Isn't Xbox One version of Rdr2 like 864p
@@MrTeton yeah it is
Rockstar: “After rereleasing GTA5 for nearly a decade and making billions, we need you to remaster the PS2 GTA games.”
Studio: “Great, what’s our budget?”
Rockstar: “The best I can do is $10.”
LMAO!
I feel like *I* could do better with this license, 10 dollars and UE4.
Studio: "We'll get the intern to do it, if he does a good job he'll get 1% of that $10"
and modders would've done it for free lol
Studio: Hmm seems a bit low. Could you up that to $11?
I think your point about the style clashing is the most important. It's why I don't "get" a remaster like this. Throwing in upscaled textures and modern graphic technologies doesn't work, in my opinion, with a game of this age at all. As far as I'm concerned, the REVC and RE3 projects brought to these games what they needed but we all know how that went.
Seriously... and at the bare minimum they should've given us modern day graphics!!
So I guess Halo CE Anniversary shouldn't exist but it does
This is the problem I had with demons souls remaster as well. Sure, the game looks amazing, but it lost the atmosphere of most areas in return. The more realistic a game looks, the harder it becomes to try and make a specific atmosphere because you lose freedom in style and aesthetics.
The problem is that most causal gamers are only impressed with graphics much like a newborn baby is with shiny keys. So, devs are obsessed with hyper-realistic graphics so their games sell like blockbusters. Meaning stylized games are dying. so when they try to take old games and remaster them, they're taking away the stylization in an attempt to make it more hyper-realistic and in turn ruin the entire atmosphere and artistic vision of the original. I'm in the minority who hated the RE2R and loved the RE1R. Which is why if they make RE4R I'm not getting it.
@@connoc5078 Hey.\I don't think this is true at all- with more power comes more freedom to create an atmosphere (original or new). Contrast to what Bluepoint usually does (remasters), this time they had more control with DS - making it a remake.. They're not the original creators so either they a) didn't understand the importance of the original atmosphere or b) they did, but didn't think the change in style would be poorly viewed by the audience!
Hitting below 30 fps for a 20 yr old game is very definitive. Such polishis what we need in all AAA titles nowadays!
They want people to give up to this flashy amateur monstrosity so they end shifting to the new titles.. the kids and brainwashed point out that "we are blinded by nostalgia", "expected too much", "its not Richstar's fault", "they will fix it".. this is not the original game, not a tribute by any means but a butchering, and calling this definitive or "remaster" is utter scam.
Its a noxious mobile revamp targeted to kids based on the mobile version.
It's trash.
This does seem to be a defining thing lately
Never thought I'd say this but the rain is an actual dealbreaker lol
It’s wildly distracting to the point I can’t even focus on what’s going on. And I’m not even picky with graphics, especially for this older series. A locked framerate and resolution bump is more than enough for me but my god that rain lol
@@gilpiper3564 its textured so poorly and the fact that you can literally see it following you around and ocean textures are stacked on top of the rain like holy cow
I think the developers need to go outside more
8:00 not to say that the drops on the ground is all aligned in a grid wtffff
There are cheats to change the weather right? Guess I'll be using that a lot in SA & 3 lol
Richard's "No." is the funniest thing I've ever seen on DF. Great review, John.
John: "So I have to know. What does the master mind behind digital foundry think of this? Which version do you recommend, Richard?"
Richard: "No"
John: "I concur"
That's a solid answer, ngl.
the fact that this game needs a performance mode LMAO
The fact that a game that basically has system requirements of "computer" needs performance mode is beyond me...
What's hilarious is that the performance mode doesn't work. This game might as well have been developed by a traveling circus.
Grand Theft Auto: Trilogy - The DMCA Edition is a meta game. It's a real life parody of conning people and running away with the money. It's a heist, and so many people fell for it.
That people pre-order digital video games would be a tragedy if it weren’t so stupid
With the og versions delisted it doesn't allow for future generations to appreciate the games and nostalgia like we do. Newer gamers will look at this pile of garbage and think that
we were all crazy. If Rockstar truly cares about this franchise they'd relist the og trilogy. Or, at the very least allow for them to be played within this trilogy.
Edit: Rockstar could be allowing this so that our future expectations will be lowered. Future generations will see Rockstar as just another publisher and not for what it once was.
I own the OG versions on my PC and bought the Definitive Edition for my Switch. I'm really enjoying it overall, the only thing I have an issue with is the frame rate and lack of Billie Jean specifically
@@BongoBrando I am also really enjoying this trilogy on the Switch. I don't see what all the fuss is about lol.. it's still a really good game and nostalgic. Just a few patches and it's perfect for the Switch! O.o!
@@15coals39 Watch the video
This "remaster" now looks like a cheap Unity asset flip game you can buy at Steam Early Access for 5 bucks.
It technically is, they flipped the assets of GTA.
that's exactly what I was thinking.
Give the original code to me and i would have done a better job, with only my javascript experience
@@altairtodescatto That's probably true, as a junior developer I can say that within 2 years time I would've made a better job than this...
@@altairtodescatto The source code is already out there, so nothing's stopping you =D
The rain drops seems to be hitting the ground at the same time in a straight line. Am I crazy?
There's an obvious grid pattern that they form because of the incredibly lazy implementation.
@@EvilTim1911 because it's a PS2 game, stop crying.
Have you seen how the Rain works when you fly? Its pretty „Matrix like“. Have fun watching it.
@@badoing7390 Dude did you even watch the video? The rain effects are completely different (and worse) in the new version.
@@badoing7390 So what?
14:35 I'm sure you meant GTA 3 only, but San Andreas did actually add this in with the PS2 release and those after! Shadows were switched to real-time dynamic stencils and they did move along with you as the sun did, actually, much better than the "definitive" version as they moved very smoothly, instead of the transitions you get here every 5 in-game minutes. Even car headlights created shadows from the environment, it looked rather well for the games enthusiastic and demanding size. Driving at night through Whetstone's countryside while playing on an old CRT TV was awesome as a kid. Viewing time-lapse videos of the 3 cities is still beautiful to this day on the aging PS2.
The rain looks like something I did back in 2001. Also, you can talk about how it's almost impossible to see through, how it has sorting issues when rendering etc... But the fact that it follows the cameras movements and completely glitch out in some camera orientations is probably the must nausea inducing thing of it all That the games got released with all these small technical issues etc, especially against the backdrop of being so aggressive against the modding community, comes of as not having much respect for their audience.
Calling this the "definitive edition" when community mods running on the old engine look better and has fewer issues is such a disconnect. A "remaster" sure... But the "definitive edition"? Look at Mafia and how they handled making a definitive edition, that was a real upgrade into a more modern gaming landscape.
A “remaster” ? Hardly.
And Mafia: Definitive Edition is a remake.
@@AL2009man Yes, another edition of the game. The definitive one. The GTA one sadly is far from definitive.
Rain looks bad even compared to 2001 stuff. Original rain looks better than this
The rain needs more transparency
"Which version do you recommend?"
Richard: "No"
I lost it.
Without a doubt the mastermind of Digital Foundry :)
Hilarious!
"How do you bring such an old game into the modern era?" Kicking and screaming apparently
😂
Also by making it worse in many aspects to now taint it's positive history. Reforged style!
Or in R* & Blizzards eyes: "Just outsource it LUL"
Its kinda Ryder on drugs and screaming "Give up the money! This a raid!" but now the pizza worker's voice doesnt even match his appearance.
it was obviously a British version as it came across lazy and whining :)
For all it's flaws, Halo CE Anniversary Edition took a game from the same area and made it look more modern without making it look like a cheap asset flip. It's very apparent that getting a mobile developer with sub-par devs to make your "definitive edition" in what looks to be a weekend or two was never going to turn out well. Rockstar and Take Two don't give to craps about their fans.
Honestly, despite all the shit I gave Halo CE anniversary, especially in its original form where I consider it both a bad remaster and a bad port of the original, even that is still better than this trainwreck.
@@chrisfratz Whats wrong with halo ce anniversary? I’ve played it back in 2012 and I liked how u can revert to the original graphics. It still plays the same.
@@Futurafree925 on the Xbox 360 version it wasn't the original Xbox graphics, rather it was the graphics from the PC port by gearbox which were significantly downgraded some of its extra visual effects like the Shields and bump mapping were broken. And I wasn't particularly fond of how the anniversary graphics looked, because I found them too noisy in terms of all the detail and with how bright they were in the lighting. In my opinion the anniversary graphics just don't match the feel that Bungie was trying to go for in the original. Also the fact that the anniversary geometry doesn't perfectly match up with the original geometry is a problem especially when things like trees that you can hide behind for cover are not as wide as they were in the original graphics, meaning you can say for example line up a sniper shot, only to then try to take the shot and end up hitting a wall that you can't see.
Have you not heard of reshade? Halo ce anniversary edition looks great.
@@Nick-zp1cs still doesn't fix the fact that it ignores the atmosphere and feel of the original graphics. It's not that I don't like the anniversary graphics on a technical level, because on a technical level they look really good. Artistically and stylistically it just doesn't match with the original and that's the reason why I don't like it.
32:39 I lost it
“NO”
HAHAHAHAHA. Same!
glad you can finally see through marketing and hype after defending the game multiple times on it's trailers
XD
I am glad to see that you watch this too! :)
"Technically it's more detailed, but it doesn't actually look better to the eye in practice." And that's half the problem with this remake in one sentence =D
problem with modern graphics in general
@@scaryKILLERwhoKILLSpeople exactly like forza horizon 5 things you cant see through heavy motion blur like ground textures and details unless you stop the car when drawing distance is still horrible so it actually may look even worse
like, the best looking game to me, in all honesty is something like night in the woods
its a remaster not a remake!
@@rhydonify tell me how it's not a remake, new engine, new assets
This is probably the weirdest rain mechanic i have ever seen in a game.
Fron an AAA Publisher lmao
It's even funnier when you get to see how modders used the slightly upgraded system from San Andreas on Renderware & it managing to look vastly superior in every way 😆
I finally got the play San Andreas last night and the rain will literally stop and change direction if you fly certain directions. Baffling level of incompetence.
The thousand needles upon you for breaking a pinky promise curse mechanic.
And those goofy effects and illumination and colours?
If they did an engine conversion, why not use the GTA V engine. You can probably reuse a lot of what has been written and animated for that game, and with the right conversion the would would have definitely been less work then unreal.
Unreal engine is cheap and easy for mediocre mobile developers.
Less work yes, but less and actually more complex, higher skilled work. Less but harder. These mobile Devs aren't about that life.
because they were mobile phone devs that would not know how to use that engine.
@@braddl9442 it’s ridiculous that they decided to get mobile devs to remaster 3 of the most prestigious games in history. These are big games and they got a mediocre team to remaster them and release them on all platforms as well. It’s ridiculous, this should have been handled by the main rockstar studios. It should have been a love letter to the fans of the old games and a great introduction for their newer audiences.
This “definitive edition” appeals to no one.
I also refuse to buy GTA V for a third time especially if this is what rockstars definition of “definitive” is.
It’s a huge disrespect and the final nail in the coffin for rockstar and take two to redeem them selfs.
Exactly.
They saw Unreal Engine saw how easy it was to click the ''enable raytracing'' box and LITERALLY AND UNIRONICALLY asset flipped the GTA trilogy. What's worse is this is literally the worst asset flip i've ever seen.
It's just insane that the base PS4 runs at 864p when you consider the fact that GTA V runs at a locked 1080p.
Damn, Vice City and San Andreas Definitive Edition has 3 times gigabytes than the 8gb of GTA IV and it lools worse
And therein lies the greatest irony in all of this.
Even rdr 2 runs at 1080p on Base ps4
That "rain" may as well be one of the worst additions to any game ever.
More like subtraction
It looks unplayable
At least you can avoid the rain by looking at the ocean.
THIS COMMENT RIGHT HERE. And yet people still think the Switch version is somehow the worst when it ironically fixes the rain issue by downgrading it? I don't get it.
@@ShadowMan64572 This game is just super unoptimized as hell. 864p on PS4 Pro? 480p on Switch??
It's not very often that DF destroys a game like this.
Well deserved. This so called “Remaster” is one of the most cynical examples of a shameless cash grab.
@@fullmetalu320 And they delisted the originals for these garbage versions. I don't think these can be salvaged at all, they need to throw it all in the garbage bin and start over (and maybe NOT with the mobile versions this time, eh?).
@@fullmetalu320 I am having alot of fun. You are a hater
@@Zeruss01 THIS was the biggest slap in the face. Delisting the originals! Why couldn't they give us the option to have either or, or both! They probably knew this was going to be garbage.
@@shezanjimenez how could they not know. Reviews of the mobile ports have been out for years and they are all bad.
This is just an insult.
Man, the lightning and colour gradients look fantastic in PS2. They put that pixel fillrate to good use.
I really like the colors going on, it's a nice aesthetic. It's too bad I didn't play these in their heyday because I just cannot get over the clunky controls now.
@@winlover37 Controls are fine, it's literally standard modern stuff. Just take some getting used to. It also has auto aim, so what's more to ask. PC version has a different camera and control scheme, and you can switch to classic PS2 mode. Try that if mouse and keyboard with manual aim works better for you.
@@ndevvarma Couldn't have said it any better!! This right here
They killed the Mods for this! I'll never forget.
Never forgive, never forget.
You know I’m gonna be honest I see a difference for a remastered game it doesn’t look night at day when it comes to the characters models but the environments look good it would have been better to do a full remake
They did it because they knew it would turn like ass
*we*
Take-Two (or rather, Tik2) sure did!
Encouraging to see that the effort you put into this breakdown is much more than Rockstar did making these 'definitive' editions.
Much more than the game deserves to be honest. Richard's "NO" and the look of disapproval was really all they needed to say.
Rockstar put no effort into making these as it was outsourced to 'Grove Street Games', the amateurs behind that horrible SA mobile and Xbox port
@@ms-to6lt You're forgetting who should've cared about who to give the job to. Rockstar's still to blame.
@@SandeMC where did I say they shouldn't be blamed? They absolutely should
A remaster so terrible the DF analysis be looking like a Crowbcat video.
Damn 😂
Who?
@@Vladislav888 a living, unbiased legend. That’s who.
Oh yay! I forgot we have that to look forward to, almost makes it all worth it almost
Absolutely
25:30 what made the PS2 era versions not have so much of the feel of objects floating was the fake car shadows and blob shadows for characters. Frankly I'd take those over that ghastly looking AO in any of the "definitive" versions!
Performance aside, what a disappointing lack of artistry or coherent art direction.
Thanks John for the detailed analysis as always, you've sold me on so many games old and new but you also let me know when to stop listening to the voice in my head that says 'it will be fine after its patched'.
Something is clearly wrong with performance in this game. My Radeon 6800 which usually pulls 200w and max utilization is only pulling 50 watts maybe. It’s terrible. Getting maybe 80 fps then just tanks to 40 fps. During cutscenes the card cranks up to 200 watts and then frame rate shoots up to 200.
Definitely it's the main problem of this 'trilogy'. The visual style was screwed up completely.
Yes. I'm glad to see they didn't just talk about performance (sometimes DF goes in on performance neglecting other issues.) Yes performance is bad, but the artistic decisions are pretty terrible in this game.
The remasters really completely disregards artistic direction, not just of the originals, but in general. It all looks so incohesive.
I’m so glad I have the original trilogy before this shit show was released
The annihilation of the game’s visual tone and atmosphere (one of the best aspects about III) thanks to zero colour filters, more natural lighting and heavy contrast, is the single biggest reason I don’t play the remaster… which is saying something considering I could make a list of everything worse about it. It’s not GTA III with its distinctly dreary and dark feel. It loses its off-kilter charm.
Art style matters a lot. ESP on some of these older games.
if you're on PC its simple enough to get Reshade and try out different stuff
there's a few different PS2 style colour styles for each game now
I can say with confidence that you put a lot more thought and care into talking about this game than Rockstar did into re-releasing it
People act surprised that Rockstar/Take Two would do this after the people themselves made GTA V one of the highest earning video games in history, to the point it was bringing in 2.5 million a day. The company skimped out with single player dlc to focus on multiplayer and shark card micro transactions. (Credit where it's due though, they saw what made them money and stuck with it)
But then with all that money, how did they repay our loyalty to the company and GTA name? They give us this.
It's so hilarious Rockstar pretty much shut down the modding community for this.
Dudes on no budget and sometimes working alone can produce better results than a company with the backing of a behemoth like Take Two and Rockstar.
What an absolute joke. If you're ever asked what is the opposite of definitive, point to this collection.
💯👍👍👍
Well summed
Man, props to John for putting up with all these versions... Must have been painful. At least it was an excuse to boot up the old PS2 and Xbox versions.
This really is the most minimum effort ever. It's actually absurd.
Stark contrast with the insane amount of effort put in the coverage of the game by DF. It almost makes me mad they had to waste so much time and resources covering this pile of trash
Actually a minimum effort would of been alot better then this garbage.
.they should of just gotten the original version and set the resolution to 1080p or 4k. And left it alone. And it would of been better then this mess.
I mean it was done by the same studio that did the San Andreas port for ps3/xbox360, and just like this “definitive edition” that port was also a low effort cash grab that was never patched or corrected.
@@alexsilva28 everyone trying to make the rockstar fanboys actually do some critical thinking
I'd rather buy a PS2 and a CRT to play this than the remastered version. The game lost so much of its visual flair, let alone the technical issues. What an embarrassment for Rockstar and a huge disappointment for somebody like me who went out and bought the original 20 years ago. GTA III literally inspired my career choice at the time and here we are with this disgrace of a game. What a shame.
Wait, you were inspired to become a career criminal thanks to GTA III?
I'm just kidding. ;) I agree 100% with you that this "thing" they've made is an absolute disgrace. You would expect them to at least have a bit of respect. If not for the players, at least for their legacy. The games that secured the position they have been benfitting from for years now. This is not just releasing a bad and unfinished game (that has become the standard these days when big companies are involved), this is pissing on your legacy to squeeze some money out of people that are looking for a nostalgia trip.
With original 2000 variants is delisted, screw it, I just sail the seas.
@@bitelaserkhalif They made it morally correct to pirate their games now
Mobile version is okayish not good as og but still playable for cheap bucks better than switch version
@@denishachan3941 Pretty sure you can get mobile version running on Vita.. I've been meaning to try check that out at some point.
this port is proof that Rockstar could not care less about the games that made them famous in the first place
Rockstar did not make this remaster. It is mostly always publisher's decision to outsource remasters to some small studios.
>>Rockstar did not make this remaster.
But they should have! Look at C&C Remastered Collection.
@@Digita1Surfer Of course they should have. With the amount of money they have they could have gone for full blown remake.
@@vanjaarsic1616, exactly my point.
x86-64 in the mix
The awful way R* has treated its own games over the years is just infuriating. Going so far as 'updating' the PC versions with inferior mobile ports and removing a whole chunk of the soundtrack.
Dreadful.
That's why there are websites where you can download certain games that are better than this "Definitive Edition" ;)
Muestra sigan Gandolfo dinero en GTA online no le importa nada más y ser nota con el online de RDR 2
I'm so glad that I bought all these games on Steam a long time ago. I'm still really pissed at Rockstar for depriving fans of the old versions but at least Rockstar doesn't get to decide whether I can play them or not
They've also slowly downgraded the graphics for RDR2 on PC over time...
@@recklesflam1ngo968 sure they have
“Which version do you recommend, Richard?”
“No.”
😂
One word says a lot!
I burst out laughing full belly laugh when this happened.
I really LOL'd to this, his face says everything 😂
peak comedy
John, you put more work into this video than they put into polishing this game.
I’m honestly amazed at how good this video is. Must have been a ton of work.
The definitive edition came out 20 years ago. This is actually the beta versions we see here!
That's an insult to the beta version, the beta versions of these gta games usually have extra features that get removed in the final product. Like how the beta version of San Andreas had skateboards and the beta version of Vice City had landmines.
It's an x86-64 cash grab
10:07 actually, none of the vehicles in the definitive edition games use taillights at night, nor do they have working reverse lights. This is because Grove Street Games didn’t bother to distinguish brake lights form taillights.
This had got to be one of the most unoptimized games of the last 10 years.
@simpSmacker I played the Beta on PC. With an i5 9600k and GTX 1070 ti, I could only get 60-70 fps with shit settings. I agree with you.
Cyberpunk 2077 is unoptimized garbage lmao
@@bunnyfreakz they're both the same honestly, don't know why you compares two broken games
@@bunnyfreakz well at least Cyberpunk looks the part, you not even getting that with this
Sounded like hyperbole but no, u right. The Series X and PS5 should be able to run 3 instances of the game at once with no issues smh
I wish rockstar put as much effort into the quality of this remaster as John puts into his videos. Thank you John!
Rockstar didn't make these remasters
@@BlackTone91 it's their games. So it's their fault for entrusting the game ports to sucha shitty studio.
@@omarsabir1210 Rockstar doesn't make that decision since that's Take2 job
@@BlackTone91 They took the decision to begin the project, then they took the decision to farm it out to these *mobile developers* , then they reviewed the lame work of said *mobile developers* and decided to release it. They *did* make them, in every sense that matters.
Even when Rockstar *did* do all the hands-on work on these games, 20 years ago, they were still broken buggy glitchy messes back then. Take it from someone who played them on PC back then (and still has the CDs!). Rockstar's attitude has *always* been one of "good enough" rather than actually chasing high quality (at least from after their name change from DMA Design).
@@johnnypopstar
Rockstar is dependent on Take2 and does not make its own decisions
These gta remasters demonstrate perfectly how "better" graphics and more detailed textures don't always lead to a game being better. Having newer graphics can often make the original atmosphere vanish. That's the same problem I had with the demons souls remake. It looked great but the atmosphere and style just wasn't there in most areas in my opinion and they didn't change anything else so it's not worth playing it over the original.
Yeah exactly, the original Demon's Souls had a really strong art direction but the remake shat all over it. For example the architecture of Boletarian Palace is heavily based on early medieval European fortresses, and NOT gothic architecture, but the remake changed it anyway, I guess because Dark Souls 3 did that and hey that game sold well! I have no desire to play the remake whatsoever since it feels so off compared to the atmosphere of the original game.
That’s basic common sense…graphics don’t make the game…gameplay is king
THANK YOU. Seemed I was the only one who felt the same about the Demon Souls remake. It didn't resemble the vision FromSoft had nor the atmosphere they created with their games.
@Man of the Rain It is a problem with more realistic graphics. Some atmospheres can only exist in more stylised or less realistic graphics.
@@Bluesine_R wait, how did the remake change the Boletarian palace from medieval to gothic? It still looks pretty medieval to me (I haven't reached the 3rd area yet btw)
They should have just ported the PS2 version 1:1 to the Switch. Would have made for a great way to play the game today.
Smirks in re3
i really wish the xbox versions of 3 and vice city would get ported, minor issues aside they're such a refreshing way to experience the game
They kind of did that with psp version and it was pretty good
@@cacomeat7385 They should've just remastered those, finally fixing those versions & shipping them fully completed would've done the games more justice... Perhaps give that same treatment to SA too, but GSG doesn't actually have that good of a track record for basically anything they've done. 🤔
There's no excuse that a game that looks like THIS should run that poorly.
In defense to the developer Grove Street Games, developing a remaster with (supposedly) high level of scope and ambition in mind is one that absolutely needs the necessary time, resource and assistance. Porting a whole assets from the former old game into a brand new environment of a modern game engine alone isn't always be easy job, let alone doing so over *three* games simultaneously in a very short time (I heard they're only given 2 years to develop the remaster) while targeting for multi-platform releases. This is esp. a big deal because GSG are absolutely small and perhaps understaffed studio for this job. They're made up of just 21 developers staffed in the studio for a record, probably always relying upon outsourced freelance developers out there, and funny enough they're not even a Rockstar subsidiary yet despite its name. You can proof check this on the "career" page on Rockstar website and Rockstar's LinkedIn page, you won't find them because GSG has its own separate website and LinkedIn page.
“Is it really that bad?”
Yes…yes it is.
No. It's worse.
All Rockstar really had to do was port the original PC/Console versions over, then apply the touch ups. Even better, just get the permissions from the community who already done the work for you and just polish it up for a current gen' experience. Would have been far cheaper and more affective than this abomination.
Instead those projects got nuked by Rockstar, so it's a lose - lose. Fudge you Rockstar, the community guidelines stopped me from saying fuck.
Using modds is very difficult legally since the modders can't claim ownership of them. Also selling them is illegal since it's unauthorized change of copyrighted software. If Rockstar wanted to do that they would need to sign legal deals with each of the modders which is a very time consuming thing to do.
@@MrMarinus18 almost as time consuming as trying to shoe horn in ai upscale and graphics add ons to a phone port.
@@mattuiop They certainly have more control that way and don't have the risk of one of those modders refusing.
When DF puts more effort and heart into the video about these games than the developers working on it.
I'm curious why this happened. No dev team wants to put out a bad product, it can't feel good getting all this negative feedback. Wonder if they only had like a month for each game or a tiny budget, who knows?
tbh i can't blame the developer after read note in the code, i can feels their frustration to do impossible job. i blame the management who let this project to happen.
@@dimasoetomo4546 what note in the code? can you elaborate?
@@arbiter- Maybe. Hard to imagine every single employee was dispassionate about the project right? Either that or management didn't have a damn and released it anyway
Such an iconic trilogy, one of the most influential, and this is how Rockstar treats it? The art style looks completely off, almost like a caricature of itself, they've cut content and it runs like ass. They've been raking in billions of dollars from GTA 5 for 9 years now, they could have done so much better.
They could have completely re-written the game, and used motion technology like in LA Noire with all that money, but hey, that'd be Rockstar in a perfect world......
This comment really puts it in perspective. GTA V is one of, if not the most, profitable entertainment product of all time. With that, Rockstar couldn't be bothered to give the classic games that built up the franchise's legacy the respect and care needed to make a solid remaster. I'm glad Rockstar's bullshit is starting to become widely talked about because they've been on the decline since Red Dead Online IMO.
Well done John. The part with Richard just saying "no" cracked me up.
This collection is sadly a collection of remasters that need a 2nd remaster. I wish they put the time into just GTA 3 instead of all 3 games for this anniversary and handled it in house. I think the responsibility lays with the ignorance and lack of quality control at Take2. It's really sad.
You still want a remaster after this? Insanity 😬🤔🤣💀🤢😭💩😈🤤
I cannot even fathom the level of incompetence required from a company that has more net worth than some small countries to make this disaster even possible.
Yeah bro R* wanted to remake the games but could'nt be bothered to use their own developers to do so. The trilogy looks like one of those no budget cheap unity projects on android Playstore.
Performance mode should have been 120fps for a game like this. These "remasters" are an absolute disgrace.
If the games were straight up ported based on the original RenderWare engine with no graphical enhancements whatsoever, a 120FPS performance mode could have been possible.
The analogy I used in my Metacritic review was this reminded me of taking a photocopy of a document, copying it, then copying THAT copy, then copying THAT copy. With each successive copy, it loses its original design and quality until you’re left with having to take cuts from multiple decent copies to create one so-so copy.
That’s what they did here. It’s a copy of the mobile port with parts lifted from other ports, which themselves were copies of other ports, and they cobbled them together with scotch tape and glue sticks.
The fact that this is, at its core, a port of the MOBILE game and repeatedly drops into the 40 FPS range with bad frame pacing on both Series X and PS5, especially with these lower poly world graphics, is nothing less than atrocious. And from my experience, GTA3 is the *least worst* of the three in the package, so the comparisons of VC and SA should be… interesting.
I would use the analogy of playing the game of telephone. One person says a sentence to another person, and they then tell what they heard to another. Then many people down the line you end up with a totally different sentence then when you started.
This "remaster" breaks my heart. The original games deserved so much better
I wanted to say same. I was very happy when they announce remaster. I enjoed Mafia editions, because at time of originals i didnt have strong pc, and i dont have ps2.
I was very happy for this, because i didnt play Vice City, and Gta 3 for same reason.
Now im watching reviews, and i cant believe it. Eh
The audacity they have to call this "Definitive Edition".. The absolute gall... Unbelievable!!
Sony pulled Cyberpunk from their store for being garbage, they should pull this as well.
@@bliglum I believe they have remove from the store
@@bliglum the "unfinished edition"
Just have to say, so much respect to these guys for all work it takes to test even one game like this on all the consoles. We all appreciate the work!
They dredged up this game’s corpse and dangled it around like a marionette, pretending it came back to life to come pay for it.
All the while the rotting flesh was making you violently gag.
This was beautifully written, my friend.
I've never laughed so much at a DF review, you can just tell John is totally done with GTA's crap.
The Nintendo Wii store music had me lol
I'd rather play the original game versions with the original soundtracks on PC or even through PCSX2 with high render resolution. This definitive edition is only definitive in name.
It's a definitive piece of garbage!
I honestly think the original PS2 game running via emulation on the PS5 would run better !
It seems like they put the most effort into vice city (pretty good cutscenes and generally looking better overall), the most energy of character models into 3 (not sure why), and overall least into San Andreas (broken models, glitches, easy fixes from the original ps2 version).
They probably started in chronological order, and didn’t have enough time for San Andreas.
We all demanded a breakdown of the trilogy from DF. Now I feel bad for John.
If Rockstar could just take their eyes off GTAOnline, this wouldn't have happened. They have really swayed from who they were and it's such a shame. If this the attention they have to the games that made then who they are now, I'm not too sure how GTA 6 and the future will be.
Remember this was handed off to another studio. Many remasters are even some of the best like shadow of the colossus or saints row 3. Most studios do this so they can work on there main line games. So this probably won't affect future GTA games. My question is why had it to a studio that specializes on phone ports and already had bad publicity for there GTA phone port.
Uhhhh??? Maybe like red dead redemption 2?
I’ve said this so many times since the expanded and enhanced trailer but it seems like people have somehow forgotten about the master piece that was rdr2
@@myfatassdick Rdr2 was already in development before Rockstar saw the potential of what GTAOnline would become. It's one of the last best things that came from them before they've completely lost their identity. It's telling from how Rdr2 Online is, how there's no GTAV single player dlc but instead they kept churning out GTAOnline content for the past few years.
Agree. They won't be getting any more of my money. I gave up on GTA a year after 5 was released. GTA 4 was way better, both in terms of realism with the physics, etc, and it wasn't bloated unlike GTA Online. RockShite can go bankrupt, because that's where they're headed.
@@supergeekjay as much as we all want it bankrupt is not something they will become. They have built such an empire and following there will always be someone to pick up their shitty games, compare it to the call of duty franchise
The 30 FPS frame pacing issues seem to happen when devs just set a 30 FPS cap with full 60 hz vsync. You need to actually use proper “half refresh Vsync” and a framerate cap not just a framerate cap, but devs don’t seem to even know this. Simply using 60 hz full blown Vsync and tossing a framerate cap in there will result in these kinds of frame pacing issues as when it can it’ll just jump back up to 60 for a brief moment since that’s what Vsync expects and most limiters aren’t “perfect” in their delivery timing. Vsync needs to “know” that you want it to wait for every other refresh cycle so that it doesn’t intermittently jump up to 60 like this (hence proper half refresh Vsync being required). There’s a reason Nvidia has this as an option in their driver.
EDIT: They talked about this in one of their recent directs (why bad frame pacing happens) and it seems I’m on the money. They use Bloodborne as an example and what the game is doing is setting an internal FPS cap, “but” with no half refresh synchronization to the display.
Most of the devs are new. And younger devs don't know alot of detailed stuff, Most of the original devs that knew all the tricks on the book leaved a long time ago sadly.
Horizon 5 30fps is a masterpiece. I can barely tell it's 30fps. Lol
@@dnegel9546 horizon 5 is so polished that I've been trying just to see how low it can go, underclock my cpu and gpu so much with medium graphics settings and keep hitting stable 60fps, I think it would run on switch no problems.
So you get the idea I can manage to keep the battery stable with usbC charger in one Asus ROG with rtx2060.
And even low graphics still look good at 720p on a 15.4 screen.
What a masterpiece in optimization.
@@xtreamerpt7775 I go back and forth between performance and quality (XSX) and I can't tell the difference either way. Both look good to me.
Would not surprise me if switch could pull it off.
@@dnegel9546 i can tell badly on horizon 5 i feel it in the response and can see the 30fps with my eyes immediately i have to play it in 60 on my series x however I will admit it is one of the better 30 fps games
The fact that this game is being compared to a PS2 game & loses in a few categories is just sad. It lacked the polish it should have received
I love the grittiness in the art style of the original version. That's all lost with DE. Everything is lit up and flat with no contrast. Of course that's only one thing out of dozens of glaring issues. A shame for sure and I was too young to play these games when they came out.
You can pirate the old ones on PC just fine. They hold up well and are a lot of fun. I don't think there's anything morally wrong with that, considering R* deleted the old versions from the stores.
@@Zhohan- I'd also like to add that there are mods that keep the aesthetic of these PS2 games while managing to have better visuals at the same time. Way better than this official release.
@@Zhohan- It's always morally correct to pirate Rockstar games. Always
I played them when they released and for me this is a huge slap in the face.
It's been know for years that the mobile ports are trash and that's what they decided to remaster 🤦
"Hey boss, look at my up-res algorithm that I've been working for 2 days"
"Let's apply this to 3 old GTA games and we can sell them as brand new AAA game"
"Wait, what?"
exactly lol
I agree these gta ports are shit but god some of you have no idea of how much time takes to develop anything
Moral of the story: don’t preorder games without seeing any gameplay.
Its honestly baffling how often this has to be said lol. Game after game burn after burn people still pre-order anything and everything and then surprise pikachu face
Even when you see gameplay NEVER preorder games. Unless it is 1 day before release. Don't support scammy devs tactics. By preordering you give them a message that they can do whatever they want because they already have your money. So they can even cut 40% of content and sell it on DLC, cause you will still buy it like a sheep
Cyberpunk should've taught everyone that
Or... don’t preorder games full stop
I don't pre-order games for this exact reason. Sadly, I got so excited to play these games in a handheld form factor (I already have the originals on PC), I pre-ordered them on switch. That's what I get for ignoring my own rule.
i’m 54 and i’ve gamed since i was 11. We had an Atari, a Binatone and games took an eternity to load. We played missile command, Asteroids, defender, track and field growing up and can remember buying GTA a few months after release, long before the internet that we know now. We played for literally days the story, found cheats online for infinite money, weapons, but this game was way out there. I’m a RDO fan and have realised how much R⭐️ and Take Two really don’t care anymore!
This is unacceptable the way they rush the game so much. It was purely a cash grab. Thanks for the analyses John. I will play the old version on my PS2
With all the money they get from sharkcards, you expect them to have a bit more quality control.
@@mianlo2624 It is the cylce of easy money grab. Once you get something easy you will automatically try less. Also to be honest the releases of GT 4 for ps3 and gta 3 for smart phones also are pretty bad. ,,,
@@majormononoke8958
I only played San Andreas on PS3, so I can't really give opinion of other two. I got stuck at flight school because a bug prevented me from passing.
@@majormononoke8958 GTA4 on PS3 isn't that bad considering how ambitious the game was for its time and the fact that PS3 architecture was so complicated all devs had trouble early on.
They want people to give up to this flashy amateur monstrosity so they end shifting to the new titles.. the kids and brainwashed point out that "we are blinded by nostalgia", "expected too much", "its not Richstar's fault", "they will fix it".. this is not the original game, not a tribute by any means but a butchering, and calling this definitive or "remaster" is utter scam
Putting them side by side makes the new one look like a fanmade "NINTENDO HIRE THIS MAN!!!" Unreal tech demo.
They're using Unreal Engine in any way they can.
22:22 This entire section of the PlayStation analysis is absolutely insane.
"looking at the raw map in editor" is such a great way to describe the feeling when you look at it!
Digital Foundry saying "Rockstar, this shit is whack" in the most diplomatic means possible.
This is why I enjoy NightDive's contributions when it comes to remasters - they don't mess with the original graphics too much and updates it in areas where it's truly needed. It's ridiculous and superficial that every classic game needs to remade into a modern looking game at the expense of the original atmosphere which garners a capricious result. I question if the people that demand for this sort of thing are even fans.
A simple resolution upscale and maybe AA would be all that was needed.
Developers oddly just don’t give a shit.
Some of us are just not stupid and we aren't interested in paying full price for games that were released 2 decades ago. If you want to remaster it and then bring it to this generation standards, otherwise release cashgrabs like these shit and let the fanboys defend you. It's cheaper.
@@thanasisthanos2152 for real , when talking about remaster ESPECIALLY a game that is 20 year old , you think the remaster could be a way to show respect by making it look current gen but still maintaining what the og game is , look at other remaster or remake like Resident Evil 2 , and Resident Evil 3 and Final Fantasy 7 , all of this game is old af but still manage to remaster to look current gen and peform like current gen while maintaining that original feeling of the game
@@nezunish-898 Those games are not remasters. They are full blown remakes. And while they are good, there don't realy have a lot in common with the original game anymore.
Would’ve loved a “legacy mode” where it reverts back to the old graphics but you keep the revamped controls. Just can’t vibe with the new art style regardless of the technical faults.
@@owowowdhxbxgakwlcybwxsimcwx I didn’t realise there was an overhaul thought it was just remapped controls on a controller ngl. Haven’t played SA on pc in a while but I remember flying never being too great in the first place though
x86-64 architecture is reason why. Because having a standard computer architecture makes it so easy to port games, the lack of supposed "definition" makes these kind of world pasttimes a quantity over quality product that they have no intention of improving. Easy money, thank the console industry for bowing down to the computer emulation providers & switching to x-86-64.
@@owowowdhxbxgakwlcybwxsimcwx well it’s what they promised. GTA 5’s controls
The lack of fog is what kills the vibe for me
That “No” holds as much weight as a shout from the Dragonborn
I'm glad I picked up the ORIGINAL trilogy on the PS store when it was on sale for only $14.99!
It runs through emulation.
I'm glad I can run that with VCS through emulator on my PS4Pro, without paying for the game again
@K D Gone at the moment. I picked these up during a sale a few months ago. Before any buzz of a remaster. For that price I pulled the trigger! Games look very crisp compared to their PS2 originals. IDK if its my tv upscaling but they look great on my 4K Samsung Q90R
"Which version do you recommend Richard"
"No"
My sides 🤣🤣
They messed this game up beyond recognition. Remaster doesn't mean remake. If they wanted to have a new creative take on the game, they should have just done that. It looks horrible, everything's plasticky, it looks flat... It's not shameful, it's a complete scam. And that doesn't surprise me considering this studio was responsible for the HORRIBLE port of SA on 360... But even worse, the performance and the bugs are flat out unaceptable.
The fact that Rockstar put pressure on the modders from the originals, and even more, retiring the originals from purchase is baffling. Now the only thing remaining is this shit.
Its the cheap crap for the modern times, for the modern casualized gamer/kid, and censored by globalist agenda.
Yes, this version is objectively terrible. However, I think the biggest advantage of this port is that, its done in a modern engine. The mod possibilities will be actually amazing. This is unreal engine 4!
No.
man i still remember the layouts of those streets.. i guess it was because the city was smaller but there was this feeling of first being lost, then getting more and more familiar and then ending up feeling like you were coming "home" when visiting those starting areas.. there was such a great feeling of progression too in those games
Definitely, especially in San Andreas. I remember staying in Los Santos for much longer than I needed to because I wanted to put off the pleasure of exploring a new city. There were so many great ideas tossed into the game for pure fun: the BMX trials on Mount Chiliad, the brilliant car import export missions(that R* ruined in GTA IV AND V), the burglary missions...none of these side-activities were brilliantly designed but I loved them all, because they were all fun and you never knew where one would pop up. I think I spent at least ten hours just playing pool in a bar in San Fierro.
And the photo mode! That they completely ruined in later GTAs by tying it to your phone and not even letting you save them. San Andreas even had pretty cool car customisation, and definitely the best character customisation.
Every Rockstar game since then, with the exception of Bully, has been a huge disappointment to me. Something was lost after San Andreas.
Starting to see why Dan Houser and others left Rockstar Games. Word is GTA 6 is in development hell as well. 🤷♂️ Dan always strived for perfection and it looks like parent company Take Two just want to pump out cash grabs hoping the Rockstar Games name is big enough to get away with it. They say they will be releasing 62, yes 62 games in the next 3yrs.
They are consuming them. The thing is, with these studios and publishers is that when the person’s themselves have reached personal wealth. The passion fades. It’s like in politics. What do they care if they fuckedup half a nation. They still take their money home at the end of the day.
Dan Houser, Leslie Benzies and Lazlow were the masterminds behind the GTA games and the creative engine behind Rockstar. All have left. I don't know if Sam Houser is still at Rockstar.
62 games? BAHAHAHAHA. Well, looks like the king is dead. What a waste.
It's a slap in the face to have these versions called "The Definitive Edition", as if they were the only versions worth playing, you find less issues trying to play the games on an old PC with a PS2 emulator. How come Rockstar gave the task of the "definitive" edition of their most cherished games, the ones that made them the giants they are now to an amateur studio. Unacceptable.
I had a small hope that at least eventually it would get patched up and be worth playing all over again. But having looked deeper, I do not believe these ports will ever be worth buying.