Criminally underrated channel and videos. I've just started watchmaking, "successfully" restored a Hamilton Perry with a 982 movement in it (although it's running very slow - but it wasn't running at all before). Going to watch everything I can.
1. Pre clean as needed w/ 99% IPA. 2. Ultrasonic: - Fill with tap water. a. 125 degrees F (52c) b. Degas c. Fill beaker #1with 400ml/solution (Liquinox solution mix - 2.5tbs/1 gal. Water, or 1:100, or 4 tbs. of Liquinox in 400ml of water) d. Fill beaker #2 with 400ml of clean distilled water. 3. Parts in beaker #1. Run for 10 min. 4. Rinse parts under tap water 5. Parts in beaker #2. Run for 10 min. 6. Swish parts in 99% IPA to displace water. 7. Place parts in dryer (food dehydrator). Dry at 104 degrees (40C) - 5 min.
Liquinox sounds perfect for cleaning up crime scenes! Seriously, it's always good to have affordable, environmentally friendly cleaning supplies. I have been buying vintage flea market watches, and the bracelets alone seem to be 98% organic debris. Going to give this stuff a try!
Update: just got my mixer in the mail yesterday and set er up over my ultrasonic. For the price and what I'm going to use it for I think it was a good score. Thanks for the tip. BTW-there's a dude on the 'Bay who's saying he's got the alternative setup to expensive watch cleaning machines and selling these very machines for 300+ bucks, telling them to "be patient because it takes awhile to build and assemble these" but that "its worth the wait." 😡🤬
Thank you Alex, I really appreciate your help. I was quite concerned about safety because I've never seen it before, contrast to IPA. I've searched for MSDS sheets of both IPA and hexane. Sorry for lack of information of the question before I asked you. I was careless of pre-cleaning. And I just let it dry freely.. on the watchmaking paper. I'm pretty sure that I'm using 99% IPA, I think the reason rust or dirt remain is the lack of the 'cycle' of cleaning process. I was quite complacent, I thought single process can clean up everything. I watched your other videos as well these days, bought more jars to make the discrete cycle of the cleaning process.. now I am sure I'm learning the right order of watch servicing. Thank you so much.
@@watchrepairtutorials Thank you. I've already read all of them! Storage in a cool, well-ventilated space.. is quite challenging because its super hot in here these days..
Thanks, Alex...I'm glad you mentioned the 91% alcohol thing. I was wondering if it made much of a difference. I see 91% available all over the place, but 99%...not so much. So, I spray my parts with CRC Electronics Cleaner which is largely hexane anyway and available at Wal-Mart in the auto dept. It does a good job as far as I can tell. Have had no issues to speak of, it dries really fast, and it is relatively inexpensive and easily obtained by comparison.
Really look forward to your vids, best on TH-camin my opinion. I'm still very much a beginner so I find myself watching and rewatching all your videos, learning more every time. Thanks so much.
I just got the same mixer you use and I'm having trouble getting the original pin holding the mixing blade out of the mixing rod, how did you get yours out?
I wish I could share photos here with you. I recently inherited my grandparents rolexes from the 70s-80s. Both heavily worn. The bracelets were disgusting. I ordered a bottle of liquinox and tried your full method. Holy cow, they came out incredible. I ran them through the cleaning jar twice, did not use the agitator, just swirled them around a bit with a chopstick. I need to order a case back removal tool, I'm sure these haven't been opened in once in 40+ years, they were terrible about maintaining anything, even cars. I'm used to using Dawn blue in my L&R 90h, but this stuff is a real game changer!
Thank you much for sharing your skill and knowledge. I have learned quite a bit from your content and really appreciate that it's out there. So, I'm relatively new to watchmaking and repair, but I'm not at all new to chemistry and just want to provide a little context here. 1. You can in fact buy things that are labeled as "99% Isopropyl Alcohol", however I'm not sure that believe that labeling. No, the manufacturer is not trying to cheat anyone. It's just that 99% isopropyl alcohol is so widely hygroscopic that it essentially instantaneously absorbs water from the atmosphere, and effectively self-dilutes. Truly anhydrous alcohols are hard to make and keep dry (actually making them is easy, it's keeping them that's the issue as they absorb water so easily.) I don't know exact rate of absorption, but it wouldn't surprise me if a bottle of 99% isopropyl alcohol that had been open for just a few minutes was closer to 90% than 99%. It's all going to depend on temperature, humidity, surface areas etc. What strikes me as more important than the dryness of the alcohol is the use of heat to dry the parts. 2. "n-hexane" isn't a grade, it's a type of hexane. Simple hydrocarbons are named as a combination of the a prefix specifying the number of carbon atoms in the molecule and a suffix that indicates the level of "saturation" (presence of carbon-carbon multiple bonds.) In the case of hexane, hex indicates there are six carbon atoms, and "ane" indicates that the molecule is fully saturated (no carbon-carbon multiple bonds). Further prefixes like the "n-" come into play when the molecule gets more than three carbon atoms in it (at that point you have options on how the carbon atoms are arranged.) In this case the "n-" stands for "normal" meaning that the atoms are all lined up in a row. I'd be surprised if this was too restricted as it's a common lab solvent but there are reagent/technical grades available all over Amazon.
As far as using IPA alcohol 99% is recommended as it's the best available to the majority of people. I need to distinguish it from the other options which definitely have a higher water content. Drying at a temperature above the room temperature is important in preventing condensation What's also important is to not overpack the small parts baskets.
Excellent video. Thanks. It is almost impossible to get hold of Hexane in Norway. I have been using CRC Electronic Cleaner for a year now for hair springs, jewels and many other things. I spray the liquid into a small jar. Works very well as a One Dip replacement. CRC Electronic Cleaner does not effect shellac. My hunt for Liquinox has just started
That’s interesting. Their brake cleaner is 90% TCE but their electronic cleaner contains n-hexane plus a bunch of other things I haven’t heard of. Great tip my man.
Fantastic content! I was trying to rig up something like this myself, as I cant convince myself to get a full watch cleaning machine (yet). this looks great!
@@watchrepairtutorials exactly! This is the perfect middle ground, definitely a step up from just dunking stuff in ultrasonic. I will be replicating this setup for sure.
Thanks again Alex! A great vid! The links don’t all work in the UK, but it gives us lots of info to search ourselves. How important is heating the water in the ultrasonic cleaner to 50c? Does it ever negatively effect metals like removing plating (zinc etc)? Also, when you dry, do you turn the parts over half way through? Ta, B.
When you’re using a detergent based cleaner, heating is very important. Unless your ultrasonic is explosionproof, I wouldn’t recommend using solvents either. I can’t say that I’ve had any problems with any plating being removed from heat or the cleaners I use. After coming out of 99% IPA there’s no need to flip parts as they drive pretty quick anyway at 40c. Thanks Boyd
Hey Alex, thanx for the good advice. Do you think there would be any value in utilizing the Sweep mode in addition to everything else you did in your experiment?
If you have it yes but not a deal breaker if it's not on the machine. I made another video adding a lab mixer to the ultrasonic which I think is about as good as you can get on this level of machine.
Another awesome video, thank you so much for all your wisdom!! If you have time, I have a few questions on the changes from your previous Ultrasonic video: - Is 125 degrees recommended over 137 degrees? - is one 10min rinse in distilled water okay instead of two 5min rinses? - Is just a swish in IPA sufficient instead of a full 2min rinse stage? - Is drying at 104 degrees for 5min okay instead of 120 degrees for 10min? Thank you in advance for any further assistance!!
Don’t get too hung up on the temperature. 125 is fine. Two rinses are better than one. With every rinse cycle you are further diluting any leftover cleaner. When I use this method, my first ranch is under just regular sink water to try away, wash away the bulk of the cleaner. Followed by five minutes and clean distilled water. I’ve also been doing a five minute cycle and 99% IPA . As far as the drying temperature goes anything above room, temperature is ideal. The key is getting the parts into the dryer before the evaporation process starts, which would leave condensation on your parts.
Aloha Alex. You do such an outstanding job with the information you provide. I need to create an ultrasonic set-up similar to the one in your video and need a bit of guidance doing so. I have the following items: Ultrasonic Cleaner, various small parts baskets, the two beaker insert assembly you recommended, Liquinox, IPA 99%, One dip, a food dehydrator for drying, etc. Do I use the first beaker for the Liquinox (straight solution or mixed with water per instruction?) and the second beaker with IPA or Distilled water? I imagine the IPA rinse beaker can't go into the heated ultrasonic cleaner. How would you set up a process using these items? Possibly like this? In the Ultrasonic is the Liquinox beaker>Distilled water beaker (1st rinse)>Outside the ultrasonic is the IPA beaker? What order, what temp/time, etc. Thanks so much!
Aloha, Mix the Liquinox per their instructions. Pre-clean the heavily greased or dirty area's. Wash cycle 10 minutes at around 120-130 F. Bring both wash and rinse water to temp. Then do the 1st rinse after wash cycle under tap water and then straight into the distilled water for a 5 minute rinse in the ultrasonic. Rinsing is tap water removes most of the Liquinox so your distilled water rinse is just cleaning up any mineral residue and remaining cleaner. During the rinse cycle dump your cleaner, rinse out the beaker, dry and add 99% !PA. Shake off as much of the rinse water and go straight in room temperature IPA in the ultrasonic for 5 minutes. Even though the ultrasonic bath water is still warm, there is no problem. During the rinse cycle, get your Dryer up to temperature, around 104 F. It doesn't need t o be hot as the purpose is to prevent condensation when the IPA rinsed parts go in the dryer. dry for about 5- 10 minutes. One important key is not pack the small parts too much in the small baskets and get the parts in the dryer ASAP. -Alex
Hi Alex. Thank you so much. Love your videos. What time / temp do you recommend for the rinse in distilled water? Can i do the final rinse in IPA in the ultrasonic too?
So I’m doing the 10 minute wash, 10 minute rinse all in cleaning solutions. I don’t use them. The temperature I use for liquinox is between 120 to 125°F. Because IPA is so much flammable the safest thing in the particular set up that I am using if you wanted to use IPA in the ultrasonic for the rotor reaction only would be to turn the machine off and just use rotary action. One of the dangers with flammable’s in an ultrasonic machine is that if there was a short in the machine that can cause an explosion. And remember, of course you have to be mindful of any shellac parts like impulse jewels and pallet jewels in the ipa
Wow thanks this is a real education! What's the capacity of that ultrasonic machine, do you need to fill the tank with tap water to transmit the heat and waves to the beakers?
Yes exactly. The tank is a 6 L. You fill the tank with tapwater, degas all the liquids cleaners and rinse and then when temperature is reached, clean the parts. Easy peasy
Great content. It’s not really clear to me if whether you have a fluid in the ultrasonic cleaner itself in wich the glasses are submerged. It looks like it’s empty but it’s my understanding that the u-cleaner should never run empty. Can somebody maybe clarify? Thanks.
Great video! Very practical stuff here. I was actually just looking up non-magnetic stirring devices used in labs, and lo and behold, you had already built an entire solution based on that idea. Your video really shows how agitation isn't *completely* necessary, but obviously useful. But I gotta ask, do you have any idea why some people just cannot seem to avoid getting rust (or sometimes called "flash rust") on their parts, when using water-based cleaners, even when rinsing with IPA and using heated air to dry their parts? Do you think there's some flaw in technique that is common for this kind of problem? To be more specific, how do you know if your IPA rinse has been contaminated with too much water? Do you ever have an issue with the performance of your dehydrator when the weather gets humid? Thanks so much.
Thank you for the kind words. First let me qualify the use of water based cleaners and rinses. There's no question that using professional grade solvent cleaners is the best approach for cleaning watch parts. As a professional watchmaker i never used water based cleaners with the exception of for cleaning cases and bracelets. This channel is designed for home watchmakers and for may of them solvent based cleaners can pose several challenges. 1) They are in an area where solvent based cleaners are not available 2) cost 3) they don't have access to a spinning basket style machine. 4) Odors and fumes Because of this, the vast majority of home watchmakers turn to ultrasonic machines which are not designed for solvent based cleaners unless you get into professional grade equipment which has ventilation and are explosion proof. The difficulty that some people have with rust or even discoloration of parts using ultrasonic machines can be for several reasons. Rust can form from: 1. not using 99% IPA or using it for too many rinse cycles and diluting it. 2. Putting too many parts in the small basket preventing the IPA from getting to all the parts during the final rinse. 3. not using a dryer set at a temperature above ambient temperature which will allow condensation to form on the parts as the IPA evaporates. Discoloration can happen: 1. Using cleaners that are too alkaline 2. not following the manufacturers dilution formula 3. running the ultrasonic too long at too high of a temperature 4. Low quality of the ultrasonic machines internal components And then there's probably other things that I'm forgetting about. So using ultrasonic machines with water based cleaning solutions is a viable way to clean watch parts but you have to be extremely diligent in your methods and don't take short cuts.
@@watchrepairtutorialsAh, thanks for that context. I can see how some people could easily mess up the steps. Quick anecdote about cleaning solutions: Once I was tasked with the problem of cleaning/disinfecting kids toys in a church nursery. I researched and suggested a low concentration no-rinse solution of bleach and water. But it took a BIG effort to get everyone on board, because even many intelligent parents thought bleach was dangerous at any concentration. It took some explaining. But it wasn't really even their fault, they simply had no exposure to the basic concepts. So yeah, getting the concepts across is half the battle, I appreciate how much effort you spend doing that exact thing! 👍
Hi Alex. Just checked Amazon and it says the Liquinox is no longer available. Might be because of me being the UK but I’m not sure. I have found it available from a couple of specialist chemical suppliers; ie Sigma Aldrich.
Hello my friend, Thanks for letting me know about the Liquinox availability on Amazon UK. That's a bummer! Maybe it's just temporary, I don't know. You're right, specialist chemical suppliers like Sigma Aldrich are a good bet for finding it as long as you can buy from them. Best, Alex
Hey Alex, What size, in liters, is the tank you're using? Also, I know you said you cut the lid but can you estimate what the original size was? Thanks as always!
Hi Alex, it turns out there's a good chance Santa may be bringing me a Lab mixer for Christmas. What approximate speed (relative knob position will do) do you use for the rotation?
I don’t know the inside dimensions of the 3 L version but I believe it’s too small for the set up. One of the advantages of what you see this video is that both speakers are heated at the same time and the 6L has two transponders where the 3L has only one.
i really want to buy one of those vintage L&R watch cleaning machines simply because they are the bee knees in cool but they are a Kings Ransom , been thinking of all kinds of ways to build one but your solution with the lab mixer is brilliant and dirt cheap allowing me to now spend the extra savings for a good trinocular microscope , i remember back in the 1980's going to used machine dealers and seeing watch cleaning machines for 25 and 50 dollars and it shocks me those vintage machines are 1000 dollars plus , love your TV Show btw Mr Tutorials
Great vidio once again. Alex is the Bulova A1 a good ultrasonic machine. I can get one refurbished. Also this new cleaner is diluted quite a bit could i just ad a full cup. Steve.
Yes it is though I don’t have any personal experience with it. With that said if I was going to spend that kind of money I would definitely want to make sure that it has the 40 as well as the 80 Hz cycles which you find in the top-of-the-line machines. But to be quite honest, now that I am using the rotary action inside the ultrasonic, I think this is the winning combination that I’ll be using for a while
I live in an apartment, what’s the best way to store and dispose of flammable solvents? I have an outdoor closet, but it does get over 100F during the summer.
Would you look at professional watch, cleaning machines that incorporate both rotary action and ultrasonics they get into the really big box. This system works amazingly well.
sorry for my late reply. could not find the video that i wrote in. why supply seiko movement without oil in to customers. thought they were just going to adjust it and then done?
@@julleboy90 OK so I don’t remember the context of the previous conversation, but let me just clarify. As far as Seiko go it depends on the price point. Oiling is going to be done completely different on $100 watch versus a $1500 watch. The lower price point move it will be machine lubricated which is not nearly as accurate as a movement that’s taken apart and hand lubricated. When it comes to movements like the NH series which are supplied to other watch manufacturers those moments are all machine lubricated, which means the vast majority are either under lubricated or over lubricated. This is true with movements supplied to the general public or to manufactures, it’s up to the manufacture to decide, what they plan on doing with it. This is true with all watch manufacturers who supply movements only. It is understood that the end-user is responsible for lubrication and regulation.
@@julleboy90 The only company using seiko movements is Seiko. NH movements go to other companies and no movement manufacture is going to hand lubricate a $30 movement
@@jameshisself9324you must have missed the point I made in the video about not using diluted IPA alcohol for your final rinse. Anything less than 99% will increase your chance of rust corrosion. The whole purpose of IPA is to displace the water.
I am using the L&R #111 in my ultrasonic right now. That with the spinning parts basket. Liquinox is good if you want a non toxic cleaner but it is water based so you have to be diligent about following the steps.
Is there anything you would NOT put into an ultrasonic cleaner besides the pallet fork and/or hairspring? I have heard contradictory information on the topic and thought your advice would be helpful. Thanks!
@@watchrepairtutorials That small parts such as the gear train gears or springs are "too delicate" for ultrasonic cleaning. I can see the logic here (sort of), but also find it odd that manual cleaners would be more gentle.
@@bensonmunyan4145 like I said in other videos on ultrasonic cleaners, watch service centers and manufacturers use ultrasonic cleaners including the Elmasolvex which uses rotary and ultrasonic, the Bulova watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner and ultrasonic machines from Lititiz just to name a few. All these machines are in the premium cleaning machine category and would not be sold if they damaged watch parts. The reason I don’t put the pallet fork and balance wheel in is that I typically work on much older movements with shellac that is not in newer condition and it’s much safer to clean them by hand. If you are working on newer movements then ultrasonic machines pose no trouble.
How big is that ultrasonic cleaner? I just bought one - a 2 Liter and the recommended suspension board with the 2 beakers. Seems I was a bit off in assuming the measurements. I can only get one side of the ABS board and one beaker in the ultrasonic at a time. The other half hangs off the back. :) Edit: I see your link in the description goes to a 6 liter. That's a big one.
Next video we’re taking a different direction and I am working on a historic 4992B Hamilton from WWII that needs a service and I’ve been putting it off for quite a while doing other things. I’ve done a ton of research on it and I think it’s going to be pretty fantastic.
Great vid Alex. What do you think of my homemade cleaning solution of mineral spirits and Murphys Oil Soap, and then rinse in mineral spirits?. I dont put the balance/pallet in this stuff.
I don’t know how’s it working for you? I would be careful of the mineral spirits as unless it’s very pure. It’s definitely going to leave some sort of residue behind. If you’re using any water, you definitely want to use the IPA.
@@watchrepairtutorials Works great but just to be sure I final rinse with 99% IPA. So much cheaper than L&R. I never use it for balance. Edit: B dip for balance & pallet
Love the videos. Even if I don't fully get everything your saying since I'm new im picking alot up. Eventually I can go back and rewatch. Question. As a amateur does your patreon have more videos? Just wondering what patreon was all about. Thanks for all you do and sharing your time and knowledge. I'm sure I don't speak for myself. Your truly a gem!
Thanks, my Patreon has actually evolved over the last year or so. It started as just a way for people to support what I was doing and get to watch videos that her advertisement free. Then I added some more advanced videos. They were only available on Patreon. Now my number is at the nine dollar a month and up tiers get free access to the book I wrote a along with free access to the watchmaking course that I’m writing as I put your lessons up. Yeah, there’s a couple things going on over there
Alex, great content, I just ordered some Liquinox and 99% alcohol. I am new to watch and clock repair and I have jumped into the rabbit hole with both feet and no parachute. I recently ordered an ultrasonic, mainly to clean clock mechanisms and watch case parts. I also assembled a traditional watch cleaning machine from a New Zealand Kickstarter program called Kiwi Cleaner. I noticed that you are using an ultrasonic with a lab spinning agitator to use the ultrasonic cavitation bubbles. In your opinion, is one system better than the other? Ultrasonic vs watch parts cleaner? Thanks!
The first major consideration is the type of cleaner that you want to use. Ultrasonics are are for detergent, base cleaners unless they’re explosion proof like the very high-end professional grade machines. Machines that spin the baskets are used with solvent-based, cleaners and rinses. The key to getting the best results is a good pre-cleaning regiment. Not only does pre-cleaning extend the life of expensive solvent-based cleaners but it’s also necessary in many cases for proper inspection of jewels and pivot holes. Free cleaning also loosens up, hardened, lubricants, and pivot halls, making tagging the jewels more effective. Now, with the relatively clean parts, going into the cleaning machines, what you’re doing at this point is really removing minor contaminations . I added the lab mixer to my ultrasonic to duplicate as closest possible to what is commonly used in the high-end watch cleaning machines which is rotary action, coupled with ultrasonic. Not only are you getting the washing away affect that the spinning basket gives you but it also reduces any possible dead spots of the cavitation bubbles.
That's annoying about Elma 1:9 becoming hard to get in NA. I did manage to find a supplier of Liquinox in Canada ("School Specialty") that would sell me a quart and ship it to me for a reasonable amount. At my current pace I think the quart would go bad before I'd use it all, but it'll be nice to graduate from Dawn dish soap to something better 😆. Hey, I also followed your advice about mainspring winders. I found a nice case for Bergeon winders at Cousins, and I'm populating it as I go (with no determination to get all the winders or arbors). Thanks for great guidance.
I know the last time I ordered Elma 1:9 it took forever to get to the US. Now it’s not available the last I checked. Hence the Liquinox. Good deal on the winders. Onlynget what you need.
No. Without heat the detergent style cleaners are not as effective. L&R is great for rotation machines. I have a Zenith 4 jar machine that when I use it, I use L&R.
Hi Alex, I am just getting started and collecting tools so I went with the cheapest cleaning option which was distilled water and dish soap. I’m working with a seagull st-36 so I can follow your series. I did DW and dishsoap with 5min sonication at 50C followed by two DW rinses and a 91% ipa rinse and all together took 15-20 min and I dried in the oven on low and I noticed a lot of rust on some of the gears and cannon pinion. I tried sonicating in white vinegar to remove the surface rust followed by DW and ipa rinse and blow dry and it tool a lot of rust off, but not everything so I soaked overnight in vinegar and tried cleaning again and this completely ruined the gears so they fell off the metal staffs. Are these cheap Chinese parts just not safe for any water based cleaning? Do you think they put minerals in the distilled water im using? I don’t get how so many people online are able to clean with soapy water unless they are just cleaning better parts that have some galvanized plating these Chinese parts don’t have. I guess my main takeaway will be to switch to napatha and 99% ipa over the 91%, but I’d like to know why this happened. Also, for rust, I guess vinegar seems to be no good, do you recommend evaporust? Will this continue to eat parts after the rust is removed?
Sorry you had problems but it has nothing to do with the fact that they’re Chinese parts. The first problem is you didn’t follow my instructions. 99% IPA not 91. 91% IPA contains water and the whole purpose of using 99% is to displace the water from the cleaning and rinsing cycles. Another issue could be too many parts in small part baskets. If you have a bunch of parts stuck together, the IPA cannot display the water. Also, you can try putting the jar of IPA in your ultrasonic with no heat for five minutes. That enables the IPA to get into the small nook and crannies and of course the drawing process needs to be done immediately after the parts come out of the IPA otherwise condensation can form on the parts , what is condensation, water, right? I use this process almost exclusively now, and I’ve done it many many times on ST36 with no issues Also, just for clarity make sure that you’re not putting pallet forks and balance wheels in the IPA. The IPA will loosen the shellac, which will be a disaster at the stage. . Professional grade, cleaners and rinses are the safest way to clean parts but they require an investment and cleaners and riches at $60 a gallon as well as a rotary style parts cleaner. Water-based cleaning systems are great low-cost alternative, but they don’t allow very much room for error in your process
Yeah did some more looking and vinegar does break down rust but the acidity will eventually break down the steel. Did some more tests with another movement and found that the initial rust I saw, which was minor, was galvanic corrosion at the point where the steel pivot was pressed into the brass gears. Brass, being more noble, accelerates the corrosion. I wasn’t able to recreate how quickly I saw galvanic corrosion the first time. You have to soak it ~1h in distilled water before you start to see some rust, but it might be safer to leave the parts that are steel pressed into brass out of a water based cleaning. I soaked the same parts overnight in 91% ipa and no effect so it had to happen during the water phase (wash, rinse1, rinse2), although I get for other reasons why 99% is preferable such as potential residue or maybe trapped liquid in the gaps of press fit joints where corrosion is likely, but that 9% water should be dissolved in the ipa and not collected in droplet from so should have low surface tension and high vapor pressure.
@@watchrepairtutorials that was me 😂 I've used them in the video production world for years. They're great for cleaning camera gear after shooting all day without leaving a residue or fibers behind. I've worked on a lot of outdoors docu shoots, jungle, desert, even at sea, and they're indispensable out there. I got proper watch paper now, too, though, for the things you tutored us on. ☺️
I use elma professional rotating cleaning machine (1 cleaning and 3 rinsing) ,with the elma wf pro waterless cleaning solution. I am working on a watch now , that has a whitish residue on the balance spring. I cant get read of it. I also tried IPA, the same result. Any suggestions? TCE?? or something else? Thank you.
The only time I’ve seen residue from a wash cycle, is what I was using L&R it got some water into the wash left over from cleaning out the jars. That residue was a bitch to get rid of. What I would probably do in your case is pull the hair spraying if you can and soak it in either Hexane or TCE. If you want to just test it out, you could put pick up a can of the CRC brake cleaner instead of investing in a to a whole can of the TCE
@@eugenerutenberg5281I was thinking primarily to prevent anything getting transferred to the balance wheel. Another option that may work is CRC electronics cleaner. Both would be safe for shallac.
Interesting. I have tried for some time to find out if thickness of beakers matters in U/S cleaning. I've found zero authoritative info. Like you I'm inclined to assume that thinner glass transfers more energy, but that's only an assumption. I haven't moved to lab beakers because I haven't seen any way to seal them effectively to allow storage of cleaning chemicals between uses. I do run a microscope slide through with my parts and it shows clearly when chemicals need replacing: funky chemicals=haze on slide after full cycle. Fresh chemicals = immaculate slide. Finally, what downside to running two rinses in distilled water, followed by final rinse in IPA, all in U/S? Seems you'd get more thorough rinse and water displacement (ie: into all the blind holes, fine screw threads etc.) I have learned that some manufacturers now specify clean cycle, followed by two rinses, and final IPA rinse. What is your view on this. Overkill?
To your first point on the beaker thickness. Yes, it is an assumption because I couldn’t find any good information specifically about thickness affecting the cleaning action, but like I said, if the absolute best way is to put the parts directly in the tank out of glass, you would have to assume that is because there is some affect. I agree with your point about the beakers not being able to seal. This doesn’t really affect me because I’m using brand new clean solution every time as well as fresh distilled water for the rinse. To your point about one rinse or two I would have to say that two is better than one, although the results I’m seeing is no residue. I really like your idea about the microscope slide. I’m going to get some and try it.
Just FYI. The tip using BrakeKleen ( red) is good but it's not available in NJ or CA.. I use Hexane since I can buy that all day long without issue. I also use Naptha (lighter fluid) and OMS. Which in CA is controlled but if you read the material safety sheets, you can find alternative supplies - Great video
Yeah, I mean you can read about it yourself. This is like one of the leading products in the world used in many different industries where any leftover residue could be catastrophic to them.
@@watchrepairtutorials Thank you very much! That is the more environmental friendly and less poisonous cleaning fluid I have been looking for. I learnt from you using 99% IPA and now I found one more thing to try with ultrasonic machine.
Oh it's Liquinox! I have a friend who runs a cleaning business and they frequently have to clean up after, well, suicides. I believe they use this then.
Hey Alex. I made an account and payed for your courses, even twice but I still dont have access. Also, there no way to contact you via website. Can you look into it? Thanks! Catalin
Criminally underrated channel and videos. I've just started watchmaking, "successfully" restored a Hamilton Perry with a 982 movement in it (although it's running very slow - but it wasn't running at all before). Going to watch everything I can.
That’s fantastic! Keep watching and learning, you’ll get there!
1. Pre clean as needed w/ 99% IPA.
2. Ultrasonic: - Fill with tap water.
a. 125 degrees F (52c)
b. Degas
c. Fill beaker #1with 400ml/solution (Liquinox solution mix - 2.5tbs/1 gal. Water, or 1:100, or 4 tbs. of Liquinox in 400ml of water)
d. Fill beaker #2 with 400ml of clean distilled water.
3. Parts in beaker #1. Run for 10 min.
4. Rinse parts under tap water
5. Parts in beaker #2. Run for 10 min.
6. Swish parts in 99% IPA to displace water.
7. Place parts in dryer (food dehydrator). Dry at 104 degrees (40C) - 5 min.
Liquinox sounds perfect for cleaning up crime scenes! Seriously, it's always good to have affordable, environmentally friendly cleaning supplies. I have been buying vintage flea market watches, and the bracelets alone seem to be 98% organic debris. Going to give this stuff a try!
Try it it’s pretty great.
Update: just got my mixer in the mail yesterday and set er up over my ultrasonic. For the price and what I'm going to use it for I think it was a good score. Thanks for the tip.
BTW-there's a dude on the 'Bay who's saying he's got the alternative setup to expensive watch cleaning machines and selling these very machines for 300+ bucks, telling them to "be patient because it takes awhile to build and assemble these" but that "its worth the wait." 😡🤬
I think you are going to be happy with the results. If you use the L& R no heat. 👍
Thank you Alex, I really appreciate your help. I was quite concerned about safety because I've never seen it before, contrast to IPA. I've searched for MSDS sheets of both IPA and hexane.
Sorry for lack of information of the question before I asked you. I was careless of pre-cleaning. And I just let it dry freely.. on the watchmaking paper.
I'm pretty sure that I'm using 99% IPA, I think the reason rust or dirt remain is the lack of the 'cycle' of cleaning process. I was quite complacent, I thought single process can clean up everything.
I watched your other videos as well these days, bought more jars to make the discrete cycle of the cleaning process.. now I am sure I'm learning the right order of watch servicing. Thank you so much.
If you can’t find MSDS sheets on IPA and hexane, I can certainly send them to you
@@watchrepairtutorials Thank you. I've already read all of them! Storage in a cool, well-ventilated space.. is quite challenging because its super hot in here these days..
Thank you for spotting this
No worries my friend
Thanks for your clear, experimental findings, and experienced knowledge. Your videos are jammed with great info delivered with clear language.
You are very welcome John. Hope it helps in the journey. 🤘
Thanks, Alex...I'm glad you mentioned the 91% alcohol thing. I was wondering if it made much of a difference. I see 91% available all over the place, but 99%...not so much. So, I spray my parts with CRC Electronics Cleaner which is largely hexane anyway and available at Wal-Mart in the auto dept. It does a good job as far as I can tell. Have had no issues to speak of, it dries really fast, and it is relatively inexpensive and easily obtained by comparison.
Perfect. Most anything safe for electronics would be safer watch parts.
Many thanks for taking the time to think about this solution and then doing another educational video. Hope that you are well.
All good. My friend, it’s all good.
Really look forward to your vids, best on TH-camin my opinion. I'm still very much a beginner so I find myself watching and rewatching all your videos, learning more every time. Thanks so much.
Thanks Aaron. Yeah learn a little bit. Put it in practice. Learn a little bit more put it in practice. Thanks for being part of the community.
I just got the same mixer you use and I'm having trouble getting the original pin holding the mixing blade out of the mixing rod, how did you get yours out?
I am pretty sure I used a punch
I wish I could share photos here with you. I recently inherited my grandparents rolexes from the 70s-80s. Both heavily worn. The bracelets were disgusting. I ordered a bottle of liquinox and tried your full method. Holy cow, they came out incredible. I ran them through the cleaning jar twice, did not use the agitator, just swirled them around a bit with a chopstick. I need to order a case back removal tool, I'm sure these haven't been opened in once in 40+ years, they were terrible about maintaining anything, even cars. I'm used to using Dawn blue in my L&R 90h, but this stuff is a real game changer!
You can always email me pictures. Good deal .
Thank you much for sharing your skill and knowledge. I have learned quite a bit from your content and really appreciate that it's out there.
So, I'm relatively new to watchmaking and repair, but I'm not at all new to chemistry and just want to provide a little context here.
1. You can in fact buy things that are labeled as "99% Isopropyl Alcohol", however I'm not sure that believe that labeling. No, the manufacturer is not trying to cheat anyone. It's just that 99% isopropyl alcohol is so widely hygroscopic that it essentially instantaneously absorbs water from the atmosphere, and effectively self-dilutes. Truly anhydrous alcohols are hard to make and keep dry (actually making them is easy, it's keeping them that's the issue as they absorb water so easily.) I don't know exact rate of absorption, but it wouldn't surprise me if a bottle of 99% isopropyl alcohol that had been open for just a few minutes was closer to 90% than 99%. It's all going to depend on temperature, humidity, surface areas etc. What strikes me as more important than the dryness of the alcohol is the use of heat to dry the parts.
2. "n-hexane" isn't a grade, it's a type of hexane. Simple hydrocarbons are named as a combination of the a prefix specifying the number of carbon atoms in the molecule and a suffix that indicates the level of "saturation" (presence of carbon-carbon multiple bonds.) In the case of hexane, hex indicates there are six carbon atoms, and "ane" indicates that the molecule is fully saturated (no carbon-carbon multiple bonds). Further prefixes like the "n-" come into play when the molecule gets more than three carbon atoms in it (at that point you have options on how the carbon atoms are arranged.) In this case the "n-" stands for "normal" meaning that the atoms are all lined up in a row. I'd be surprised if this was too restricted as it's a common lab solvent but there are reagent/technical grades available all over Amazon.
As far as using IPA alcohol 99% is recommended as it's the best available to the majority of people. I need to distinguish it from the other options which definitely have a higher water content.
Drying at a temperature above the room temperature is important in preventing condensation
What's also important is to not overpack the small parts baskets.
Thanks for the advice I find a through pre clean makes a world of difference take care😄
You got that right Amanda, good to hear from you.
Excellent video. Thanks. It is almost impossible to get hold of Hexane in Norway. I have been using CRC Electronic Cleaner for a year now for hair springs, jewels and many other things. I spray the liquid into a small jar. Works very well as a One Dip replacement. CRC Electronic Cleaner does not effect shellac. My hunt for Liquinox has just started
That’s interesting. Their brake cleaner is 90% TCE but their electronic cleaner contains n-hexane plus a bunch of other things I haven’t heard of. Great tip my man.
Fantastic content! I was trying to rig up something like this myself, as I cant convince myself to get a full watch cleaning machine (yet). this looks great!
The thing is you can’t buy a cleaning machine with rotary action without spending big big money.
@@watchrepairtutorials exactly! This is the perfect middle ground, definitely a step up from just dunking stuff in ultrasonic. I will be replicating this setup for sure.
Thanks again Alex! A great vid! The links don’t all work in the UK, but it gives us lots of info to search ourselves. How important is heating the water in the ultrasonic cleaner to 50c? Does it ever negatively effect metals like removing plating (zinc etc)? Also, when you dry, do you turn the parts over half way through? Ta, B.
When you’re using a detergent based cleaner, heating is very important. Unless your ultrasonic is explosionproof, I wouldn’t recommend using solvents either. I can’t say that I’ve had any problems with any plating being removed from heat or the cleaners I use.
After coming out of 99% IPA there’s no need to flip parts as they drive pretty quick anyway at 40c.
Thanks Boyd
Thanks Alex!
Hey Alex, thanx for the good advice. Do you think there would be any value in utilizing the Sweep mode in addition to everything else you did in your experiment?
If you have it yes but not a deal breaker if it's not on the machine. I made another video adding a lab mixer to the ultrasonic which I think is about as good as you can get on this level of machine.
Another awesome video, thank you so much for all your wisdom!! If you have time, I have a few questions on the changes from your previous Ultrasonic video:
- Is 125 degrees recommended over 137 degrees?
- is one 10min rinse in distilled water okay instead of two 5min rinses?
- Is just a swish in IPA sufficient instead of a full 2min rinse stage?
- Is drying at 104 degrees for 5min okay instead of 120 degrees for 10min?
Thank you in advance for any further assistance!!
Don’t get too hung up on the temperature. 125 is fine. Two rinses are better than one. With every rinse cycle you are further diluting any leftover cleaner. When I use this method, my first ranch is under just regular sink water to try away, wash away the bulk of the cleaner. Followed by five minutes and clean distilled water.
I’ve also been doing a five minute cycle and 99% IPA .
As far as the drying temperature goes anything above room, temperature is ideal. The key is getting the parts into the dryer before the evaporation process starts, which would leave condensation on your parts.
Thanks a ton for the reply, you’re the best! I’ve been learning so much from you!
Aloha Alex. You do such an outstanding job with the information you provide. I need to create an ultrasonic set-up similar to the one in your video and need a bit of guidance doing so. I have the following items: Ultrasonic Cleaner, various small parts baskets, the two beaker insert assembly you recommended, Liquinox, IPA 99%, One dip, a food dehydrator for drying, etc. Do I use the first beaker for the Liquinox (straight solution or mixed with water per instruction?) and the second beaker with IPA or Distilled water? I imagine the IPA rinse beaker can't go into the heated ultrasonic cleaner. How would you set up a process using these items? Possibly like this? In the Ultrasonic is the Liquinox beaker>Distilled water beaker (1st rinse)>Outside the ultrasonic is the IPA beaker? What order, what temp/time, etc. Thanks so much!
Aloha,
Mix the Liquinox per their instructions. Pre-clean the heavily greased or dirty area's. Wash cycle 10 minutes at around 120-130 F. Bring both wash and rinse water to temp.
Then do the 1st rinse after wash cycle under tap water and then straight into the distilled water for a 5 minute rinse in the ultrasonic.
Rinsing is tap water removes most of the Liquinox so your distilled water rinse is just cleaning up any mineral residue and remaining cleaner.
During the rinse cycle dump your cleaner, rinse out the beaker, dry and add 99% !PA.
Shake off as much of the rinse water and go straight in room temperature IPA in the ultrasonic for 5 minutes.
Even though the ultrasonic bath water is still warm, there is no problem.
During the rinse cycle, get your Dryer up to temperature, around 104 F. It doesn't need t o be hot as the purpose is to prevent condensation when the IPA rinsed parts go in the dryer.
dry for about 5- 10 minutes.
One important key is not pack the small parts too much in the small baskets and get the parts in the dryer ASAP.
-Alex
Hi Alex. Thank you so much. Love your videos. What time / temp do you recommend for the rinse in distilled water? Can i do the final rinse in IPA in the ultrasonic too?
So I’m doing the 10 minute wash, 10 minute rinse all in cleaning solutions. I don’t use them. The temperature I use for liquinox is between 120 to 125°F.
Because IPA is so much flammable the safest thing in the particular set up that I am using if you wanted to use IPA in the ultrasonic for the rotor reaction only would be to turn the machine off and just use rotary action. One of the dangers with flammable’s in an ultrasonic machine is that if there was a short in the machine that can cause an explosion. And remember, of course you have to be mindful of any shellac parts like impulse jewels and pallet jewels in the ipa
@@watchrepairtutorials Thank you so much Alex. I am excited to try out this new cleaning process.
Wow thanks this is a real education! What's the capacity of that ultrasonic machine, do you need to fill the tank with tap water to transmit the heat and waves to the beakers?
Yes exactly. The tank is a 6 L. You fill the tank with tapwater, degas all the liquids cleaners and rinse and then when temperature is reached, clean the parts.
Easy peasy
Excellent upgrade... Thanks... Is it compulsory to get micro oven safe jars to use in ultrasonic machine?
Not necessarily but the thinner the jar the more susceptible it will be to temperatures of 120° or so
@@watchrepairtutorials Thanks
Great content. It’s not really clear to me if whether you have a fluid in the ultrasonic cleaner itself in wich the glasses are submerged. It looks like it’s empty but it’s my understanding that the u-cleaner should never run empty. Can somebody maybe clarify? Thanks.
yes, you fill the tank up to fill line with water. It's the water that becomes heated.
Great video! Very practical stuff here. I was actually just looking up non-magnetic stirring devices used in labs, and lo and behold, you had already built an entire solution based on that idea. Your video really shows how agitation isn't *completely* necessary, but obviously useful.
But I gotta ask, do you have any idea why some people just cannot seem to avoid getting rust (or sometimes called "flash rust") on their parts, when using water-based cleaners, even when rinsing with IPA and using heated air to dry their parts? Do you think there's some flaw in technique that is common for this kind of problem?
To be more specific, how do you know if your IPA rinse has been contaminated with too much water? Do you ever have an issue with the performance of your dehydrator when the weather gets humid? Thanks so much.
Thank you for the kind words.
First let me qualify the use of water based cleaners and rinses.
There's no question that using professional grade solvent cleaners is the best approach for cleaning watch parts. As a professional watchmaker i never used water based cleaners with the exception of for cleaning cases and bracelets.
This channel is designed for home watchmakers and for may of them solvent based cleaners can pose several challenges.
1) They are in an area where solvent based cleaners are not available
2) cost
3) they don't have access to a spinning basket style machine.
4) Odors and fumes
Because of this, the vast majority of home watchmakers turn to ultrasonic machines which are not designed for solvent based cleaners unless you get into professional grade equipment which has ventilation and are explosion proof.
The difficulty that some people have with rust or even discoloration of parts using ultrasonic machines can be for several reasons.
Rust can form from:
1. not using 99% IPA or using it for too many rinse cycles and diluting it.
2. Putting too many parts in the small basket preventing the IPA from getting to all the parts during the final rinse.
3. not using a dryer set at a temperature above ambient temperature which will allow condensation to form on the parts as the IPA evaporates.
Discoloration can happen:
1. Using cleaners that are too alkaline
2. not following the manufacturers dilution formula
3. running the ultrasonic too long at too high of a temperature
4. Low quality of the ultrasonic machines internal components
And then there's probably other things that I'm forgetting about.
So using ultrasonic machines with water based cleaning solutions is a viable way to clean watch parts but you have to be extremely diligent in your methods and don't take short cuts.
@@watchrepairtutorialsAh, thanks for that context. I can see how some people could easily mess up the steps.
Quick anecdote about cleaning solutions:
Once I was tasked with the problem of cleaning/disinfecting kids toys in a church nursery. I researched and suggested a low concentration no-rinse solution of bleach and water.
But it took a BIG effort to get everyone on board, because even many intelligent parents thought bleach was dangerous at any concentration. It took some explaining. But it wasn't really even their fault, they simply had no exposure to the basic concepts.
So yeah, getting the concepts across is half the battle, I appreciate how much effort you spend doing that exact thing! 👍
Thanks. Some really good information. Thanks for the video
No problem my friend. No problem.
love you're videos, helped me a lot. Thanks dude.
The Dude abides. 😜
Hi Alex. Just checked Amazon and it says the Liquinox is no longer available. Might be because of me being the UK but I’m not sure. I have found it available from a couple of specialist chemical suppliers; ie Sigma Aldrich.
Hello my friend,
Thanks for letting me know about the Liquinox availability on Amazon UK. That's a bummer! Maybe it's just temporary, I don't know.
You're right, specialist chemical suppliers like Sigma Aldrich are a good bet for finding it as long as you can buy from them.
Best,
Alex
Hey Alex,
What size, in liters, is the tank you're using? Also, I know you said you cut the lid but can you estimate what the original size was? Thanks as always!
it's the 6 L and I'm not sure what the size of the insert is. probably eight or 9 inches I would think.
Thank Alex for this topic. I’m shopping around for a good beginner ultrasonic cleaner, have any suggestions?
The one i use i the video is pretty good. They also have different size units. Link in the description.
Hi Alex, it turns out there's a good chance Santa may be bringing me a Lab mixer for Christmas. What approximate speed (relative knob position will do) do you use for the rotation?
You will find a sweet spot on the dial that allows the basket to spin without disturbing the beaker. I don’t know the number but you will find it.
@@watchrepairtutorials Thanx, looking forward to trying the real deal on one of my older Pocket Watches.
Fantastic video as always Alex. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it my friend
Thank you for sharing your research
No problem, my friend
Thanks for the great video. Can we use the 3L version of the ultra sonic cleaner or does it need to be the 6L for this setup?
I don’t know the inside dimensions of the 3 L version but I believe it’s too small for the set up. One of the advantages of what you see this video is that both speakers are heated at the same time and the 6L has two transponders where the 3L has only one.
i really want to buy one of those vintage L&R watch cleaning machines simply because they are the bee knees in cool but they are a Kings Ransom , been thinking of all kinds of ways to build one but your solution with the lab mixer is brilliant and dirt cheap allowing me to now spend the extra savings for a good trinocular microscope , i remember back in the 1980's going to used machine dealers and seeing watch cleaning machines for 25 and 50 dollars and it shocks me those vintage machines are 1000 dollars plus , love your TV Show btw Mr Tutorials
Your welcome. The system I show in this video works really well.
Holy cow. How I would like to go back in time and buy a few of those. One I would keep.
Great vidio once again. Alex is the Bulova A1 a good ultrasonic machine. I can get one refurbished. Also this new cleaner is diluted quite a bit could i just ad a full cup. Steve.
Yes it is though I don’t have any personal experience with it. With that said if I was going to spend that kind of money I would definitely want to make sure that it has the 40 as well as the 80 Hz cycles which you find in the top-of-the-line machines.
But to be quite honest, now that I am using the rotary action inside the ultrasonic, I think this is the winning combination that I’ll be using for a while
I live in an apartment, what’s the best way to store and dispose of flammable solvents? I have an outdoor closet, but it does get over 100F during the summer.
They sell safety cans for disposal of flammable liquids to storage them and then you can take them to a waste management company for disposal.
Thank you Alex another gem of information
I appreciate you brother
Really cool stuff! I’ll look into making these upgrades to my setup in the future.
Would you look at professional watch, cleaning machines that incorporate both rotary action and ultrasonics they get into the really big box. This system works amazingly well.
It works pretty slick. You get the best of both worlds.
sorry for my late reply. could not find the video that i wrote in. why supply seiko movement without oil in to customers. thought they were just going to adjust it and then done?
What?
@@watchrepairtutorials we talked about the Seiko movement. that Seiko delivers movement without oil in it. how can that be?
@@julleboy90 OK so I don’t remember the context of the previous conversation, but let me just clarify. As far as Seiko go it depends on the price point. Oiling is going to be done completely different on $100 watch versus a $1500 watch. The lower price point move it will be machine lubricated which is not nearly as accurate as a movement that’s taken apart and hand lubricated.
When it comes to movements like the NH series which are supplied to other watch manufacturers those moments are all machine lubricated, which means the vast majority are either under lubricated or over lubricated. This is true with movements supplied to the general public or to manufactures, it’s up to the manufacture to decide, what they plan on doing with it.
This is true with all watch manufacturers who supply movements only. It is understood that the end-user is responsible for lubrication and regulation.
@@watchrepairtutorials so it depends on whether companies want to pay Seiko service movement.
@@julleboy90 The only company using seiko movements is Seiko. NH movements go to other companies and no movement manufacture is going to hand lubricate a $30 movement
Excellent advice thanks Alex
My pleasure Frank.
Could you use this solution and method in a watch cleaning machine (L&R)? I just got one, but am not keen on using expensive, toxic chemicals.
It really.
Spinners are really for solvent based cleaners and ultrasonics are for detergent based cleaners.
Is liquinox safe on shellac?
100%
@@jameshisself9324you must have missed the point I made in the video about not using diluted IPA alcohol for your final rinse. Anything less than 99% will increase your chance of rust corrosion.
The whole purpose of IPA is to displace the water.
Nice. I'll have to check out that Liquinox. Just bought some L&R #566 tho too. If it's cheaper than L&R then it's a no no brainer.
I am using the L&R #111 in my ultrasonic right now.
That with the spinning parts basket. Liquinox is good if you want a non toxic cleaner but it is water based so you have to be diligent about following the steps.
@watchrepairtutorials got it. Gonna be a few days before it gets here. Also waiting for my IPA.
Ran out.
Great info again many thanks.
Very welcome Andrew.
Is there anything you would NOT put into an ultrasonic cleaner besides the pallet fork and/or hairspring? I have heard contradictory information on the topic and thought your advice would be helpful. Thanks!
What have you heard that’s contradictory?
@@watchrepairtutorials That small parts such as the gear train gears or springs are "too delicate" for ultrasonic cleaning. I can see the logic here (sort of), but also find it odd that manual cleaners would be more gentle.
@@bensonmunyan4145 like I said in other videos on ultrasonic cleaners, watch service centers and manufacturers use ultrasonic cleaners including the Elmasolvex which uses rotary and ultrasonic, the Bulova watchmaster ultrasonic cleaner and ultrasonic machines from Lititiz just to name a few. All these machines are in the premium cleaning machine category and would not be sold if they damaged watch parts.
The reason I don’t put the pallet fork and balance wheel in is that I typically work on much older movements with shellac that is not in newer condition and it’s much safer to clean them by hand. If you are working on newer movements then ultrasonic machines pose no trouble.
@@watchrepairtutorials That makes perfect sense! Thanks for confirming!
How big is that ultrasonic cleaner? I just bought one - a 2 Liter and the recommended suspension board with the 2 beakers. Seems I was a bit off in assuming the measurements. I can only get one side of the ABS board and one beaker in the ultrasonic at a time. The other half hangs off the back. :)
Edit: I see your link in the description goes to a 6 liter. That's a big one.
I cut the suspension board to fit inside the lip of the ultrasonic machine.
Thanks Alex, always interesting 👍
Next video we’re taking a different direction and I am working on a historic 4992B Hamilton from WWII that needs a service and I’ve been putting it off for quite a while doing other things. I’ve done a ton of research on it and I think it’s going to be pretty fantastic.
Great vid Alex. What do you think of my homemade cleaning solution of mineral spirits and Murphys Oil Soap, and then rinse in mineral spirits?. I dont put the balance/pallet in this stuff.
I don’t know how’s it working for you? I would be careful of the mineral spirits as unless it’s very pure. It’s definitely going to leave some sort of residue behind. If you’re using any water, you definitely want to use the IPA.
@@watchrepairtutorials Works great but just to be sure I final rinse with 99% IPA. So much cheaper than L&R. I never use it for balance.
Edit: B dip for balance & pallet
Love the videos. Even if I don't fully get everything your saying since I'm new im picking alot up. Eventually I can go back and rewatch. Question. As a amateur does your patreon have more videos? Just wondering what patreon was all about. Thanks for all you do and sharing your time and knowledge. I'm sure I don't speak for myself. Your truly a gem!
Thanks, my Patreon has actually evolved over the last year or so. It started as just a way for people to support what I was doing and get to watch videos that her advertisement free. Then I added some more advanced videos. They were only available on Patreon. Now my number is at the nine dollar a month and up tiers get free access to the book I wrote a along with free access to the watchmaking course that I’m writing as I put your lessons up.
Yeah, there’s a couple things going on over there
Alex, great content, I just ordered some Liquinox and 99% alcohol. I am new to watch and clock repair and I have jumped into the rabbit hole with both feet and no parachute. I recently ordered an ultrasonic, mainly to clean clock mechanisms and watch case parts. I also assembled a traditional watch cleaning machine from a New Zealand Kickstarter program called Kiwi Cleaner. I noticed that you are using an ultrasonic with a lab spinning agitator to use the ultrasonic cavitation bubbles. In your opinion, is one system better than the other? Ultrasonic vs watch parts cleaner? Thanks!
The first major consideration is the type of cleaner that you want to use. Ultrasonics are are for detergent, base cleaners unless they’re explosion proof like the very high-end professional grade machines. Machines that spin the baskets are used with solvent-based, cleaners and rinses.
The key to getting the best results is a good pre-cleaning regiment.
Not only does pre-cleaning extend the life of expensive solvent-based cleaners but it’s also necessary in many cases for proper inspection of jewels and pivot holes. Free cleaning also loosens up, hardened, lubricants, and pivot halls, making tagging the jewels more effective.
Now, with the relatively clean parts, going into the cleaning machines, what you’re doing at this point is really removing minor contaminations .
I added the lab mixer to my ultrasonic to duplicate as closest possible to what is commonly used in the high-end watch cleaning machines which is rotary action, coupled with ultrasonic. Not only are you getting the washing away affect that the spinning basket gives you but it also reduces any possible dead spots of the cavitation bubbles.
That's annoying about Elma 1:9 becoming hard to get in NA. I did manage to find a supplier of Liquinox in Canada ("School Specialty") that would sell me a quart and ship it to me for a reasonable amount. At my current pace I think the quart would go bad before I'd use it all, but it'll be nice to graduate from Dawn dish soap to something better 😆.
Hey, I also followed your advice about mainspring winders. I found a nice case for Bergeon winders at Cousins, and I'm populating it as I go (with no determination to get all the winders or arbors). Thanks for great guidance.
I know the last time I ordered Elma 1:9 it took forever to get to the US. Now it’s not available the last I checked. Hence the Liquinox.
Good deal on the winders. Onlynget what you need.
That’s an amazing muffin ❤
Don't know what you're talking about, but thanks for stopping by.😁
Would you recommend Liquinox over the L&R solutions for a watch cleaning machine (Like the L&R Master)?
No. Without heat the detergent style cleaners are not as effective. L&R is great for rotation machines.
I have a Zenith 4 jar machine that when I use it, I use L&R.
@@watchrepairtutorials I have my ultrasonic as well. This sounds like a good solution for any ultrasonic cleaning needs.
Can a use liquinox whit mi vintage elma cleaning masin?
If your machine is ultrasonic, yes you can.👍
Hi Alex,
I am just getting started and collecting tools so I went with the cheapest cleaning option which was distilled water and dish soap. I’m working with a seagull st-36 so I can follow your series. I did DW and dishsoap with 5min sonication at 50C followed by two DW rinses and a 91% ipa rinse and all together took 15-20 min and I dried in the oven on low and I noticed a lot of rust on some of the gears and cannon pinion. I tried sonicating in white vinegar to remove the surface rust followed by DW and ipa rinse and blow dry and it tool a lot of rust off, but not everything so I soaked overnight in vinegar and tried cleaning again and this completely ruined the gears so they fell off the metal staffs. Are these cheap Chinese parts just not safe for any water based cleaning? Do you think they put minerals in the distilled water im using? I don’t get how so many people online are able to clean with soapy water unless they are just cleaning better parts that have some galvanized plating these Chinese parts don’t have. I guess my main takeaway will be to switch to napatha and 99% ipa over the 91%, but I’d like to know why this happened. Also, for rust, I guess vinegar seems to be no good, do you recommend evaporust? Will this continue to eat parts after the rust is removed?
Sorry you had problems but it has nothing to do with the fact that they’re Chinese parts. The first problem is you didn’t follow my instructions. 99% IPA not 91. 91% IPA contains water and the whole purpose of using 99% is to displace the water from the cleaning and rinsing cycles.
Another issue could be too many parts in small part baskets. If you have a bunch of parts stuck together, the IPA cannot display the water.
Also, you can try putting the jar of IPA in your ultrasonic with no heat for five minutes. That enables the IPA to get into the small nook and crannies and of course the drawing process needs to be done immediately after the parts come out of the IPA otherwise condensation can form on the parts , what is condensation, water, right?
I use this process almost exclusively now, and I’ve done it many many times on ST36 with no issues
Also, just for clarity make sure that you’re not putting pallet forks and balance wheels in the IPA. The IPA will loosen the shellac, which will be a disaster at the stage. .
Professional grade, cleaners and rinses are the safest way to clean parts but they require an investment and cleaners and riches at $60 a gallon as well as a rotary style parts cleaner.
Water-based cleaning systems are great low-cost alternative, but they don’t allow very much room for error in your process
he soaked parts in vinegar overnight. thats what killed em. @@watchrepairtutorials
Yeah did some more looking and vinegar does break down rust but the acidity will eventually break down the steel. Did some more tests with another movement and found that the initial rust I saw, which was minor, was galvanic corrosion at the point where the steel pivot was pressed into the brass gears. Brass, being more noble, accelerates the corrosion. I wasn’t able to recreate how quickly I saw galvanic corrosion the first time. You have to soak it ~1h in distilled water before you start to see some rust, but it might be safer to leave the parts that are steel pressed into brass out of a water based cleaning. I soaked the same parts overnight in 91% ipa and no effect so it had to happen during the water phase (wash, rinse1, rinse2), although I get for other reasons why 99% is preferable such as potential residue or maybe trapped liquid in the gaps of press fit joints where corrosion is likely, but that 9% water should be dissolved in the ipa and not collected in droplet from so should have low surface tension and high vapor pressure.
Any Liquinox or equivalent available in Europe to anyone's knowledge? Cheers. Happy to be part of this select community.
I am sure it is. A quick search turned up fisher scientific but I am sure it’s available elsewhere.
Indeed. Looks like they are all over Europe actually. Awesome.
@@watchrepairtutorials
What Elma machine and size is recommended?
Well, I wouldn’t personally pay for Elma ultrasonic, but it just depends on what your budget is and whether or not you want 40 & 80 Hz.
I see you got some kimwipes ☺️
Very handy things!
Somebody told me about those a while back and I pick some up. They have their uses for sure.
@@watchrepairtutorials that was me 😂
I've used them in the video production world for years. They're great for cleaning camera gear after shooting all day without leaving a residue or fibers behind. I've worked on a lot of outdoors docu shoots, jungle, desert, even at sea, and they're indispensable out there.
I got proper watch paper now, too, though, for the things you tutored us on. ☺️
@@soundmindtv2911 Man I wish I could sit down with you for about 10 minutes and pick your brain about videography
@@watchrepairtutorials I'm sure we could do that. Even through email or zoom, or whatever
I use elma professional rotating cleaning machine (1 cleaning and 3 rinsing) ,with the elma wf pro waterless cleaning solution. I am working on a watch now , that has a whitish residue on the balance spring. I cant get read of it. I also tried IPA, the same result. Any suggestions? TCE?? or something else? Thank you.
The only time I’ve seen residue from a wash cycle, is what I was using L&R it got some water into the wash left over from cleaning out the jars. That residue was a bitch to get rid of.
What I would probably do in your case is pull the hair spraying if you can and soak it in either Hexane or TCE. If you want to just test it out, you could put pick up a can of the CRC brake cleaner instead of investing in a to a whole can of the TCE
@@watchrepairtutorials can TCE damage the balance jewl, or i need to take the balance spring off.?
@@eugenerutenberg5281I was thinking primarily to prevent anything getting transferred to the balance wheel. Another option that may work is CRC electronics cleaner. Both would be safe for shallac.
@@eugenerutenberg5281 No it’s safe for cleaning.
Just don’t soak it 20-30 minutes
Interesting. I have tried for some time to find out if thickness of beakers matters in U/S cleaning. I've found zero authoritative info. Like you I'm inclined to assume that thinner glass transfers more energy, but that's only an assumption. I haven't moved to lab beakers because I haven't seen any way to seal them effectively to allow storage of cleaning chemicals between uses. I do run a microscope slide through with my parts and it shows clearly when chemicals need replacing: funky chemicals=haze on slide after full cycle. Fresh chemicals = immaculate slide. Finally, what downside to running two rinses in distilled water, followed by final rinse in IPA, all in U/S? Seems you'd get more thorough rinse and water displacement (ie: into all the blind holes, fine screw threads etc.) I have learned that some manufacturers now specify clean cycle, followed by two rinses, and final IPA rinse. What is your view on this. Overkill?
To your first point on the beaker thickness. Yes, it is an assumption because I couldn’t find any good information specifically about thickness affecting the cleaning action, but like I said, if the absolute best way is to put the parts directly in the tank out of glass, you would have to assume that is because there is some affect. I agree with your point about the beakers not being able to seal. This doesn’t really affect me because I’m using brand new clean solution every time as well as fresh distilled water for the rinse.
To your point about one rinse or two I would have to say that two is better than one, although the results I’m seeing is no residue.
I really like your idea about the microscope slide. I’m going to get some and try it.
Just FYI. The tip using BrakeKleen ( red) is good but it's not available in NJ or CA.. I use Hexane since I can buy that all day long without issue. I also use Naptha (lighter fluid) and OMS. Which in CA is controlled but if you read the material safety sheets, you can find alternative supplies - Great video
Good to know. Thanks Mike
@@watchrepairtutorials Least I can do.. you share so much more. Thank you
TCE is nasty stuff. Be careful and read and follow the SDS for safety information.
What power and frequency does your ultrasound use?
40. You don’t really see anything higher until you get into the more expensive grade machines.
wow! this is great!!
Awesome
Wow, you've really arched-out from that electric drill thingy! :)
I love it!
The introduction of that critical cleaning fluid opened a door to clean many things.
Yeah, I mean you can read about it yourself. This is like one of the leading products in the world used in many different industries where any leftover residue could be catastrophic to them.
@@watchrepairtutorials Thank you very much! That is the more environmental friendly and less poisonous cleaning fluid I have been looking for. I learnt from you using 99% IPA and now I found one more thing to try with ultrasonic machine.
Oh it's Liquinox! I have a friend who runs a cleaning business and they frequently have to clean up after, well, suicides. I believe they use this then.
Liquinox is good but you have to pre clean and follow the steps, no shortcuts or you can get rust.
Hey Alex. I made an account and payed for your courses, even twice but I still dont have access. Also, there no way to contact you via website. Can you look into it? Thanks! Catalin
I see you found the email to contact me. I responded my friend.
This is better than Mark, and chrono glide
Thanks, but I respect both of those guys a lot. I would especially love to sit down and have a beer with Kali.
I presume you're suspending the jars in a bath of water and not simply putting them in direct contact with the bottom of the cleaner?
You would be correct. The water is where you get the heat from.
Well.... here in Canada a gallon of this stuff is $450
So I am not sure it's right for me as a amateur pocket watch service guy,
Cheers
You must be talking about hexane. Not worth it at 450
@@watchrepairtutorials nope. exact same product he is showing.
not sure why, but it is.