Why should it be a shock that people are upset about it. The whole point in Goku's character is to overcome and they just lazily move him like a goalpost. It's important for Goku to overcome but they keep pushing beerus okay now he's more powerful than that. It would be a smart decision in the creative work for Goku to surpass him or what's the point in his character. Now that doesn't mean people can't train to catch up with him.
Vegito: *uses true MUI + ultra ego + infinity kaioken + potential unleashed* Beerus: how cute, now i only need to use 0,5% of my power to one shot you ☺
Yeah Beerus has never actually showcased his true full power... Beerus has always been this strong and he has always been mindful of not letting others know how strong he truly is...
I agree, Beerus made the statement in the manga that his mind is always on destruction and that there is no limit to his power. We can interpret that statement entirely for what it is, Beerus quite literally grows infinitely simply by keeping his mind in a constant state of thought that signifies complete destruction of not only his opponent but his own limitations. Thus him saying that he has no limits to his power. Beerus is very smart and keen and be understands mental fortitude and mental strength and agility via his experience. We see the story is heading towards that direction with stating that Jiren simply knew how to utilize his power better than both Goku and Vegeta to maximize the upmost effectiveness of said power, he wasn’t actually that much stronger. If the same can be said about Beerus and as Beerus has stated, then he not only has a higher mastery over said mentality of power and definition of strength, but he has refined this over eons of his existence. And “Rivaling,” doesn’t mean that Beerus will be eclipsed, simply that both Goku and Vegeta will become relevant in the realm of his true power.
@@loneli_ yeah but the anime itself is very clear that nobody surpassed Beerus... They surpassed Belmod, not Beerus... Belmod was only SSB level at best, even Toppo and Blue Goku were already as strong or stronger than Belmod during the zen exhibition before the TOP
Beerus wasn't always this strong stop lying he gets stronger and stronger thanks to Ultra Ego. You always come on these comments spreading false information.
@@GodslayerSeiya Beerus doesn't even have or use Ultra ego, wtf are you even talking about? That's Vegeta's exclusive technique/form 😂😂😂 You always come on these comments saying some DUMBASS shit 💯... And Ultra Ego is a relatively new manga only technique/form, it wouldn't explain anything from the anime or movies... It's not a valid explaination whatsoever. Like I said Beerus has always been this strong and he's always holding back substantially... Funny how you think factual information is misinformation yet you're always misinformed and WRONG 🤣
The fact that people like unreal calls him lazy is just insane. Sure we've seen him be laying about for most of dragon ball super but peeps gotta remember that he's 75 million years old who knows what kind of intense training whis has put him throughout those years back 😂.
@@Arthas28 But the issue is that isn't SHOWN. It would be better if this were shown or stated somewhere so it makes more sense and isn't just pulled out of nowhere for plot convenience.
Beerus wasn't overexagerating the million years power gap thing, he mans it quite literally cause he IS million (if not more) years old and it would take THAT much of time to actually surpass him, power means nothing without experience to boost
Facts bruh idk why ppl are so blind he said a million yrs and wasn’t worried bout vegeta having ultra ego beerus is different level I think makes the story better just imagine how whis said he can’t hold candle to grand priest it’s logic with beerus and these mortals
The way I see it. Goku and Vegeta have been playing a free to play MMO their whole lives and even though they've hit the f2p level cap, they still haven't grinded the right quests to level up their individual skills, and gaining God ki is like paying for the subscription for the first time. Beerus is just the biggest Whale in their server
A hilarious yet accurate way to put it, really. And if you take the interpretation further, you can see the Grand Priest as a Moderator under the service of The Omni King (Owner/Creator in this case), and the Angels are just lesser Administrators keeping an eye on the players in their respective servers (Universes).
I feel like for someone who’s 75 million years old, Beerus should pretty much incomparable when scaled next to mortals, yet seeing how he fights and all, even if he holds back, nobody should even be able to land a slight touch on him.
Nah honestly it just makes the writing for the other G.O.D.s a joke. Like how could any none divine characters meet them in power yet they have shown that most are a joke. It is bad writing!
I feel like there has to be some diminishing returns in that training though, like is 75 million years of training really noticeably different from 65 million years? from 10 million years? From 1 million years? Especially when you have literally the best teacher in the universe and no rivals to speak of. His body can only get so strong and his techniques so refined. and how much of that time was Beerus just in hibernation?
@@saphironkindrisBerrus has infinite potential so he has no limit to how strong his body can get. Berrus himself stated he has no limit because he only thinks of destruction.
I like him letting people land blows, kind of like Vegeta did in the movie when Beerus slapped Bulma. But then immediately turned the tide like an absolute unit and knocked Vegeta out with a tap.
@@daichei6882If it was 1% truly, SSB Goku wouldve surpassed Beerus at Resurection F. Its honestly dumb that Goku even challenged Beerus because of how much stronger he is to Goku. At least with how powerful he is now.
I think it's worthy to note Gas was one shot by base freiza. He had two more levels of power in the tank Gold and Black Goku and Vegeta may also have to transcend yet again. I think if Goku's evolution through Ultra Instinct, Vegeta has yet to break through his current ceiling with Ultra Ego. The final arc for these Characters could hopefully be the most epic in DragonBall yet. Fingers crossed 🤞
At least the official colored pages don't seem to do that. He powers up. There's shadows and speedlines, but Friezas hands, for example, are clearly white the whole time, while they are clearly black when he transforms and attacks Goku and Vegeta. There might be some intentional very short term foreshadowing about something being different there, but it's probably just intentionally unclear to spark a debate among the fanbase. @@jantheking7028
I hope we get SS4 canonized as the final evolution of Goku and Vegeta but still only put them 60-70% of Beerus. Like Beerus should body Omega Shenron with one hand if he went into the GT Universe xD
Beerus IS a moving goalpost throughout the anime/movies, and heres why: After BOG it was clear that God Goku obviously hadnt fought full power, but used 70% of his (Beerus) power (according to Whis in the movie). Toriyama put out a God scale putting God Goku at 6, Beerus at a 10 and Whis at a 15. Even though in the anime Whis doesnt give a definitive number, the Scale would be consistent with Beerus reaction to Blue Kaioken during the U6 tournament as well (Visibly shocked and sweating and even stating "He was planning to use that against me?!"). Its also stated clearly that God Goku requires a good bit of effort from Beerus in order to not be bored, something that none God ki users couldnt do. It should also be noted that Goku gets alot stronger after that fight with Beerus, for the simple fact that his God form is the base form power since he absorbed it into base. All his later transformations multiply his base the same as before. While we dont have definitive multipliers for God or Blue, that means just by transforming Goku is x400 his BOG SSG Self while in SS3 and an indeterminant amount stronger in God and Blue and eventually UI. As far as Toriyamas God scale is concerned, Goku blew that out of the water a long time ago, and using the movie statements Goku is basically a few thousand % stronger than he was just by going SS3 so in that instance he also clears by a mile. This isnt even factoring in the Kaioken Multipliers, Zenkai boosts, training and the ridiculous amps UI and MUI gave him in order to defeat Jiren and then everything post TOP. Every GOD was bowing and giving Goku mad respect when he unlocked MUI including Beerus and Whis. The only way Beerus ISNT getting surpassed is if he passively gets stronger, he trains off screen, or the writers arbitrarily increase his power so they can have him relevant for a future event (much like the rest of the cast in DBS for the TOP) Which is why he's a *moving* goalpost and not a wall like Jiren was. Theres also the stuff about God of Destruction tier being reached as early as the beginning of the TOP when Goku and Frieza tanked the Hakai from U4s GOD as well as Jiren being stated multiple times to be above his own GOD and Toppo being one himself. Then theres the Broly statement in the 2018 Broly movie from Goku in which he says he might be stronger than Beerus which would mean Blue Gogeta is at the very least stronger than Broly movie Beerus. In the anime theres a rivalry between Beerus Champa and Quitela but we dont have a GOD battle royale like in the manga to state whether or not Beerus is the strongest God or not. Even in the manga its stated that Blue Vegito in the Black Arc is Beerus level, which if true means Manga Beerus is weaker than Anime Beerus but stronger than BOG Movie Beerus. Theres honestly so many things throughout the DBS era that makes it obvious either the writers DONT KNOW how strong they want him to be, or they just argue he's getting stronger over time that its not even really a debate
Youre missing the point that because they never show him even remotely trying, you cant say hes getting stronger. I think they cleverly written him to have his power "up in the air". Hes the one character the never put in a fight so you cant do exactly what youre doing now, trying to pinpoint his exact power level. I thibk youre right in that he has to be one of the strongest, being supposedly the strongest destroyer, however i think that was also the entire point. Its not so much that theyre moving his power, more like hes always been insanely strong and only after characters like Jiren show their power do we truly realize how strong Beerus really is. Hes been around for thousands of years longer than all of these characters lol so i feel like theyve written him at a point where he is so far beyond the regular characters that there is no point showing his power. I would say hes definitely designed to be a goalpost, but nobody realized how far the goalpost would be. Its also important to remember the anime and the manga are not the same thing, manga and anime very often take creative liberties and change things. In that way its like you said, the goalpost isnt moving, Anime Beerus is just way stronger the Manga Beerus and always has been.
I do agree with a lot of what you said except for implying that Belmod is supposed to be much weaker than Beerus or something. It’s pretty clear that all the destroyers are around each other’s levels.
I think the reason why people see beerus as this moving goalpost is because of how the anime interpret the 'jiren is stronger than the gods' while in the manga is different, its just jiren is stronger than one god. Also i'm pretty sure with Hakai, Beerus and other gods can most likely increase their power, just depends on who mastered it to whatever level imo
Another thing is translation errors. In the 'Battle of Gods' movie, in dub, Whis or Beerus, I forget who, stated Berrus used about 10% while in the sub, Beerus was stated to sue only 1% of his power. Now add to the fact that was at the start where Goku and Vegeta undoubtedly got stronger since then, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to give Goku Black trouble, Jiren, Moro, and whoever else. Training with Whis/Beerus for a lot of it, and when Black Frieza comes out of nowhere and one-shots fully healed Ultra Ego/Instinct, and we're told that Beerus is still stronger, it feels like either A. The story isn't progressing or B. Beerus is as strong as the author needs him to be or Both. I love DragonBall, but Super's writing at points is awful.
- 6:24 I think Lord Beerus has mastered UE + incomplete UI at its highest, so he can always grow in power no matter what. In Battle of Gods he could’ve only be using god destruction ki...but not any doctrine.
I agree. I think there are 3 forms of gods. Base Ki, (which Jiren, UI Goku, and Ego Vegeta rival GoDs.), destruction Ki( Base Ki, multiplied with destruction, and UI Ki. Beerus is amplified with incomplete UI ki, and destruction energy.
@@eobardthawn6903 well what I think is the stages are There base form like just standing Then base form surpressed like using less than 8%. then base form less surpressed like using 20 to 50% of their power Then serious mode which is around like 60 to 80 of their power Then hakaishin form that's 100% Them hakaishin form plus ui( Beerus only though) This is because the don't have transformations like the Saiyan's the destroyers just increase the amount of power they are using to fight you
The most important characters in the show can’t seem to go through the story without some manner of transformation - So chances are that if Frieza threw hands with Beerus, Beerus would likely unveil some manner of ‘destruction form’. Super is all about money-making through hype, and their favourite way of doing that bar fusions, are transformations.
Beerus would reveal a secret transformation only for frieza to reveal an even newer stronger form, blacker frieza. They make tons of money and the fans eat it up because oooh shiny new transformation we’ve never seen that before.
@@cornbread9512 I agree with ya on that. Frieza already rushed in once with only 1 form… and he’s too smart to do the same thing again so he definitely has another form under his sleeve. But if he doesn’t I think he might fuse with either cooler or frost (my reasoning is I feel he must’ve trained with someone to achieve this type of power while in the other hyperbolic time chamber)
Beerus will not be surpassed because the entire narrative of DBS is that Goku will eventually rival Beerus and give him a proper challenge... This is how super will likely end, with Goku amd Beerus having a rematch
Don’t forget Vegeta. The oracle fish said “They” will rival Beerus. Even that raises a question. Are they individually a worthy rival to Beerus? Or do they have to work together to even rival Beerus.
@@pleaseforgiveme1749 that was an additional prophecy after the original prophecy which was the reason Beerus woke up in the first place... the original prophecy only speaks of the super saiyan god (singular) but it seems as if the prophecies can change over time and now Vegeta will eventually rival Beerus as well
i think you might have missed some important points. 1. the whole battle of gods story initially could have been surmised as "goku goes ss god and battles against beerus well enough to impress him" this puts some logical bounds on the power of beerus. their was a statement that if god Goku was a 6 beerus was a 10 and whis was a 15 this obviously isn't accurate in the current version but it gives a pretty good insight into the way that beerus was thought about in that movie. the story of goku impressing beerus doesn't make sense if beerus is so vastly powerful that goku's super sayan god form is roughly as insignificant compared to his own power as ssj3 was. so this presents us with a dilema, goku is clearly much much much stronger than he was in battle of gods, perhaps tens of thosuands or hundreds of thousands of times greater. if god goku was 2% of beerus than blue would have made him an equal to beerus assuming no base increases. if god goku was 0.1% as strong as beerus than blue kaioken x 20 would equal beerus. assuming that mui is as far removed from blue kaioken x20 as ssj is from base (it must be more than that imo) than if god goku had been 0.002% as strong as beerus than a mui would have equaled him assuming no base improvements. the simple fact is nothing about the movie battle of gods makes sense with beerus being as strong as he is currently portrayed, and it disagrees so strongly with the current power scale, it seems questionable if this movie is even still canon. ch2. in the u6/u7 tournament beerus reacts with fear when seeing kkx20 blue goku heavily implying he was worried, this concern doesn't make sense uness goku is a significant percentage of the power of beerus. if you power scale the boosts between the u6/u7 tournament and then it seems clear to me that goku's base form gets at a minimum a thousand times stronger by the time the cerial saga ends so the same dilema emerges. if kkx20 goku were 0.1% as strong as beers (already seriously making the reaction of beerus seem out of place) than gas saga goku should be as strong or stronger than him. then we have jiren who was originally stated to be "as powerful his god of destruction" (th-cam.com/users/shortsn8jHCILLt9Q?si=c3fNpqHsymIqnCkj) i power scale belmod as #2 or #3 god of destruction. beerus beats all of them but he has to use ui to do it and while he wins its clearly not a "no diff" fight, so its makes sense to scale beerus as being within an order of magnitude of the other gods of destruction. he might be stronger but probs not more than 10X the other gods. so that means he's less than 10x jiren. so that means with the base increases evident in the battles against morrow and gas that if goku were to get 10 times stronger in those 2 arcs (something he clearly did) then he would defeat beerus. this is why beerus is descried as a moving goal post. this is why i view the statement of "black frieza being almost as strong as a god of destruction " to mean roughly jack squat as literally every statement we've gotten so far that compared anyone to a god of destruction or anyone to beerus has been retconed to mean nothing
Nice breakdown. Simple fact is the entire reason Beerus even woke up in the first place is supposedly because Super Saiyan God would provide him with an interesting challenge. You are absolutely correct that if Beerus still dwarfs current Goku, then he should have been able to one-shot the original SSG form about as easily as SS3. The fact the plotline has basically just resorted to making Beerus power level "stronger than whatever Goku is right now" proves he is clearly a moving goalpost.
I think it’s HILARIOUS Beerus (cat) & Quitela (mouse) are the strongest Gods Of Destruction! Tom & Jerry reference 😜 If any character has a chance or the POTENTIAL to beat Beerus it’s Black Frieza! He multiplies faster than the Saiyan! Plus, he could a 5th transform stacked with Black Frieza! He’s the GOAT 💯💪🏼
He is a moving goalpost, only if we are taking into account only the manga he isn't. 1. Everyone knows Beerus in the BoG movie had to use 70% of his power to defeat SSJ God Goku. 2. In Ressurection F Whis says that if Goku and Vegeta Blue fought together they could go toe to toe with Beerus. 3. Right before the ToP in the anime, Whis says that "there is a mortal that not even his god of destruction can defeat, and that god of destruction is stronger than lord Beerus" (later Whis confirms he was talking about Jiren and Belmoth). Even an anime guide stated that UI Goku surpassed Beerus.
Anime clearly pulled a dumb move that wasnt linked to source material. As its clear Toryama didnt want Beerus surpassed just yet. Also all that stuff was just TOP hype. Belmod was never stronger than Beerus.
you need to do some research before commenting 1 - Beerus later on said that he lied about using 70% 2 - so did the kai 3 - Beerus said he only lost in arm wrestling and that god was revealed to be Quetilla not belmod, so again you're wrong.
@gerz667 1. No, he didn't lie in the movie, he said it to Whis alone. Even Toriyama in an interview said that if Beerus is a 10, then God Goku is a 6. 2. No, he did not. 3. Again you are wrong, in the anime that god was Belmod, in the manga it was Quitela. And you are saying that I'm the one that should do research? You have no shame.
@@robinlike2395 Doesn't matter, the point of conversation is if the "goalpost" Beerus has ever been moved or not, and yes he has been moved as I just proved. Also obviously the third thing I mentioned is from the anime, so I don't know why you say that 😒
Beerus wasn't necessarily going all out in the zen exhibition... We know for a fact that Belmod wasn't going all out and literally played dead yet he didn't get erased... so its very likely that Beerus was still holding back as well
False. It was outright stated through Goku that Beerus was going all out. This is further backed up how damaged they were at the end of the fight with them requiring their angels to heal them.
@@charzanboo9940 FALSE. That's a misinterpretation. Goku is just under the impression that Beerus is going all out because the Grand priest said that they had to... Goku is impressed with what he sees so he's like wow that's Beerus at full power... But as I just explained, Belmod was holding back and didn't get erased so Beerus could have been holding back as well... And you can still get damaged when suppressed or holding back, we've seen countless examples... So needing to get healed doesn't mean anything
@@saitama944 no it was established from the very beginning that Goku would become a Rival for Beerus, that's the entire narrative of DBS, that's why Beerus woke up in the first place... So Goku should never actually surpass Beerus but he should eventually become a worthy rival.... Nothing was really ever reconned concerning Beerus strength except for the original movie scaling when Toriyama scaled them on 1-10 scale...
@@reptilian_geneticist Prove it. Prove it was a misinterpretation, especially given that Whis was standing right beside Goku and didn't correct him on his assessment, lol. And before you say Whis just didn't feel like it, he felt no such reluctance on saying Beerus's ultra Instinct being imperfect a moment later.
I think people really downplay how absolutely insane fusion truly is and that Vegito/Gogeta being compared to Beerus at all doesn't lower Beerus. Base Vegito immediately performs better against fused Zamasu than SSJB Goku or Vegeta did, putting the base potara fusion multiplier minimum at like 20,000+ even while low-balling(ssj1 50x, SSJ2 2x, SSJ3 4x, SSJG at least 10x due to being "far beyond" ssj3, SSJB at least 5x SSJG due to SSJG>10%SSJB in the manga). Base Gogeta immediately starts performing decently against SSJ1 Broly compared to SSJB Goku and Vegeta getting auto-slapped, meaning the fusion dance multiplier is also like 20,000+ (except even more as goku and vegeta have perfected ssj blue by this point, with vegeta also having his royal blue). Characters literally thousands of times stronger than Goku or Vegeta individually MAYBE rivaling Beerus isn't far fetched at all.
I think you’re pretty much correct. Important thing about Gogeta and Vegito though! I mean people forget that Fusion is stated to multiply Goten and Trunks’ power and Potara is like multiplication but even stronger to the point Elder Kai think Goku and Gohan wouldn’t have to transform where Buutenks then using the Fusion wouldn’t win. (Though some guides state Fusion draws out the power of the fusees, seemingly in addition to its weaker power boost.) The whole “greater than the sum of their parts multiplied tens of times over” is just an expression for “they’re way stronger now and no, us as the writers are not going to tell you, the audience by how many times specifically so stop asking.” If a Vegito gets 25x stronger, Goku and Vegeta have each gotten 5x stronger. If a fusion is 100x stronger than before, the fusees have each gotten 10x stronger. If the 2 get 1,000x stronger, their fusion will get 1,000,000x stronger. Goku and Vegeta have gotten so many times stronger with numbers with so many 0s we wouldn’t even know what number to call it unless we plugged it into the internet so it could tell us and it would take us at least 10 seconds to pronounce the whole number correctly after a few tries. The point is, it’s entirely plausible for Gogeta and Vegito to surpass Beerus (and no one above that surprisingly) without Goku and Vegeta catching up to Beerus. Especially when it comes to Gogeta and Vegito, those two will always be a “moving goalpost” as opposed to Beerus. I also think some people conflate anime statements and manga statements despite them being different continuities. Or use the BoG and FnF Z movies, where Toriyama literally stated he hadn’t given any thought to the future of DB. Beerus does use 70% of his power in that movie specifically then in FnF it’s stated that both SSGSSs could go toe-to-toe with Beerus via teamwork. This is because SSGSS Goku was getting pushed back being near Golden Frieza’s blast but Toriyama stated that he couldn’t do anything to Beerus. So at least then, it’s reasonable to think Beerus in the old Z continuity may have trained or simply had his strength retconned.
People really take a lot of feats from that fight they had. Goku wasn’t shaking the universe, beerus was. Goku has never done that since. They’ve been saying beerus is leagues ahead. No one wants to listen 🤷🏽♂️
Beerus has some degree of Ultra Instinct and has the Power of Destruction which comes with techniques like Ultra Ego the opposite of Ultra Instinct. He has complete mastery of Ultra Ego and it's a power driven by his instincts as a God of Destruction to destroy. He continues to get stronger having no limit to how strong he can continue to become. Idk why fans can't seem to understand this it's very simple the story itself tells you and than on top of that Toyotarou himself stated this in his interview for the Granolah arc when talking about him designing Ultra Ego.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 you obviously lack information for one Beerus himself told Vegeta Ultra Instinct ain't the only technique of the gods. Secondly did you not read my comment when I said Toyotarou stated Ultra Ego is the technique of the Gods of Destruction. But let me educate and help you out.
@@GodslayerSeiya You’re obviously an idiot. Nowhere has it been confirmed that Beerus has Ultra Ego, that’s a name Vegeta came up with himself by the way. With the exception of possibly Toppo’s hakaishin form, Vegeta is the only user of UE we know of.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 Toyotarou interview with Uchida last year on the official DB site talking about Ultra Ego and the design for it. He says Ultra Ego is used by Gods of Destruction idk what you been reading but even without this interview it's literally hinted and strongly implied Beerus is talking about Ultra Ego when he tells Vegeta Ultra Instinct ain't the only oy technique of the gods. Than Toyotarou comes out and flat out confirms it in his interview. The video link I sent is the same statement from his interview that i just sent in this comment Q: WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT BEERUS WHILE DESIGNING IT? Toyotarou- A: THAT'S RIGHT. I WAS. ULTRA INSTINCT IS A TECLINIQUE OF THE ANGELS, BUT "EGO" IS DIFFERENT, AND IT'S A TECHNIQUE USED BY GODS OF DESTRUCTION.
i feel like the only chracters that can push beerus is TUI Goku, UE Vegeta, Jiren and Broly PS: if they play their cards right Black Freiza has potential to take beerus head on
@@samadagoat7769 Nah you are just a toxic fanboy, because the only damn reason nowdays Beerus is relevant is because somehow he id still mor powerful than Goku when that makes no sense. Pay attention to the manga or anime instead of a youtube video and being an asshole about it.
The reason Beerus is called a moving goalpost is because he really seems like the final stop without the story becoming something Toriyama would never do (IE some rebellion against the Angels/Zeno). Meaning once Beerus falls we either A. Find reason to fight EGP/Zeno or B. End the series wholesale. There is no other option especially when we're already stretching thin for villains these days.
So this entire comment section is gonna ignore that Jiren at the Tournament of power was stated to be above every god of destruction (which includes beerus) sorry they keep wanking beerus off because if Beerus using 60% of his power against ssg goku at the beginning of super…yeah I think that alone is simple enough to show they have moved the goal posts and it’s honestly boring.
Actually Beerus is a moving goalpost because his strength was initially set up. In the battle of gods movie, Beerus was stated to have used just under 70% of his power against super saiyan god Goku. Not to mention how Akira Toriyama ranked Beerus, super saiyan god Goku, and Whis on a number scale, with Beerus being a 10, super saiyan god Goku being a 6, and Whis being a 15. Yet Goku and Vegeta achieved the stronger super saiyan blue in the resurrection F movie, and they are still considered weaker than Beerus. Not to mention Whis made a statement in that movie that Goku and Vegeta could go toe-to-toe with even Beerus if they worked together. In dragonball super, it becomes less apparent how much of his true strength that Beerus uses, but his reactions to Goku's super saiyan blue kaioken state and Goku achieving ultra instinct. The series and manga just makes it seem that despite Goku and Vegeta getting stronger, Beerus is still stronger, and it's done in a way that makes it seem like Beerus is a moving goal post. I do believe that Beerus is the strongest in universe 7 (not counting Whis), and one of if not the strongest of the gods of destruction.
@@RevoluShane His point though is they keep changing stuff in the movies and the anime in regards to if Goku surpassed Beerus. For instance in the anime dragon ball super they have implied that Beerus has been surpassed by Goku multiple time's and keep backtracking. Beerus shits brick's when Goku goes ssj blue kaioken × 10 and even when Goku goes ultra instinct. Beerus even looked like he was going to die when he seen Jiren power up.
It is very simple beerus is milions of years old His training alone surpasses 10 years blavk frieza The entire of dragon ball history is a drop for beerus he is like a literal force of nature
if anything manga wise… this is the only way this makes sense. if we take the current goku and vegeta and make them fuse into vegitto we can actually gauge how strong everyone is so giving the new zenkai boost if we compare G&V at there best they should be as strong as ssj 2 vegito (or if by scaling the base form as both of there strongest from then they would not stand a chance) so that means that for black frizza 2 completely one shot them both he would have to be ssg or ssbss vegito level of power. thus that means that beeruss would have to be Ui or UE vegito level of power
i honestly hope beerus will never be surpassed. I hope they'll only be able to actually make beerus go full power and hurt him, but not beat him even if they fuse
I agree Beerus has never been intimidated by Goku & Vegeta's training and their new transformations. If he believed they had come close to his level of power or even surpassed him, Beerus would never let them train on his planet. He was also never worried about Broly's level of power or any villain. Beerus even said he could easily defeat merged Zamasu. He has never doubted his power.
Yeah i don't think Beerus does any training at all... The guy is lazy and he's millions of years old, he literally has millions of years of training under his belt already...
We know the gods that were not participating in the Tournament of Power (kind of reminds me of the Espada) were excluded due to their furocity in their own respected universes. I just hope Beerus will always be higher than Goku, Vegeta, and Freiza where getting only 70% of his power is as close as they will get. Lets see Freiza get his redemption arc so he finally gives up his conquest and starts to turn heel - like Vegeta did.
Beerus > Black Frieza > Gas > Angel Moro(Merus absorbed) > Jiren > Broly... Broly may be stronger in raw power but jiren is the smarter fighter and has better ki control which is why I put him above broly.
Nah, i still refuse to belive that he ISN'T a moving goal post. I just feel like they dont have anything planned as a continuation of super so having beerus be below goku would practically just mean the end of super
I actually think Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, and even Broly are approaching Beerus’ power. In the scan used at timestamp 17:28, you can see a bit of dialogue explaining that Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta’s (not Super Saiyan Blue Evolution) punch made Beerus’ hand shake. There’s no indication of him saying it hurt or even tickled, but I believe this means that Goku and co are going to be ON Beerus’ level in 1-2 arcs.
My thought process is simple when I watched battle of the gods and with the evidence in comparison to what I was hearing them say told me that Beerus never went past 50% of his power he’ll I don’t even think he was using 35% of his power. He was training Goku by speaking a language that Goku would understand thoroughly. And by the need of the fight he got to see just what a saiyan god could do and was actually happy cuz they have serious potential for growth.
Battle of Gods: Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta (enraged by bulma getting slapped): Tossed around Beerus like a ragdoll and tanked a head-on punch before being outclassed moments later. Arguably drew blood from Beerus, depending on what the red stuff was. Granolah Arc: Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Limit Breaker Evolution Full Power Vegeta (enraged by finding out that beerus caused the destruction of his people, his planet, and his kingdom): Instantly thrashed upon landing a single decent hit. If Beerus wasn't a moving goalpost, almost any SSB would one-shot him
He's absolutely a moving goalpost. In battle of gods goku was supposedly 70% of Beerus but every arc no matter how strong goku and vegeta get Beerus constantly shifts to be stronger. It's bad writing and annoying.
The warriors that beerus was talking about in the original battle of gods movie who he said the multiverse pawned whom surpassed even he and Whis are likely simply any of the angels that surpass whis in power, grand priest and zeno bodyguards, maybe zarama, and any characters from potential mortals to gods from the demon realm, other universes, or outer realms like the original realm of the namekians etc… whom haven’t been introduced to the franchise yet that surpass Whis in power None of the people we’ve seen yet outside of the angels, body guards, maybe zarama, meerus, and grand priest surpass beerus Quitela and ultra fusion comes the closest after them Then comes complete cell max or super complete cell max cell revived, black frieza, Broly, gohan, vegeta, goku, slim buu, etc…
The statement that Goku had surpassed Beerus is very misinterpreted til this day. I always seen that statement as Goku when using omen phase 3 surpassed the version of Beerus that he had fought against during Battle Of Gods. It wouldn’t make sense that Goku surpassed Beerus at full power because we never seen Beerus at full power. There are no statements from Beerus, outside of pure shock and admiration for Goku for even being able to achieve such a state, that even he himself have not mastered along with the other GODs. Nothing indicates that Goku completely eclipsed Beerus in either the anime or manga.
@@loneli_ yeah there's actually no statement whatsoever that Goku surpassed Beerus.... Whis and Beerus just say "he's done it" and they're obviously referring to the achievement of MUI which is the context of what's happening at that moment.... But people like to make crazy interpretations and take things out of context in order to fit their narratives
@@reptilian_geneticistI whole heartedly agree brother. Even in the manga we see that Beerus has some lesser version of UI and from when he trained Vegeta he seems to have no need for UI since if Beerus can utilize his own version of “Ultra Ego,” he seems to be able to confidently rival an UI level of power and he states this confidently when training Vegeta. I don’t see Goku and Vegeta reaching that realm of power until after the black frieza arc or until the end of z arc. We need to see them jump multiple hurdles and really work for this level of power, stakes need to be high and the gods need to be either involved to clearly set a goal post or completely removed to allow for our characters to simply grow beyond their current selves to where they can now rival the high tier GODs or even Beerus himself.
@@loneli_ it's even stated in the anime that Beerus can use Ultra Instinct, just not at will... But Ultra Instinct is actually irrelevant against someone significantly stronger... This is the same reason why MUI Goku can't defeat someone like Whis, it doesn't work against significantly stronger opponents
I pretty much agree, with more information we just got more insight into how strong beerus could be. Bro could essentially have a further ue/a hakai mode&base iu He could probably even put em together & kinda use both at once.
Jiren, goku & vegeta has barely surpassed gods in their normal power states not using energy of destruction! An incomplete hakaishin form increased supersaiyan blue tier toppo power to kaioken × 20! And ultra ego took vegeta to Mui level of powers, so it isn't so hard to think that a true destroyer god can utilise destruction energy in more efficient & meaningful ways.
I mean Vegeta basically apologizes to Beerus and says that he is but a novice when it comes to using destruction. There's no doubt Beerus is far more efficient with his version.
It is more of a Question than a statement that "closer to a God of Destruction ?" because there is a ? at the end of that sentence so even Black frieza is not as strong as a God of Destruction I am sure they will say that when Black frieza returns
I think the reason why fans think Goku and Vegeta are approaching Beerus is that narratively the writers keep using Beerus and the Gods of destruction as a tool to explain that our current villain is THAT much of a threat. I think Merged Zamasu was compared to Beerus by Shin in the manga. Of course we are led to believe that Jiren is stronger than Belmond, and once we hear that we know Jiren is a force to be reckoned with. But Goku and Vegeta are roughly in their 50s I think. So let's say they trained constantly since they were 5. That's 45 years of training. Even for Broly that's around the same with his evolutionary advantage. But Beerus sealed Old Kai in the Z Sword 75 Million years ago. So he is at least that old. That is MILLIONS of years of training at the very least. Even if Beerus wouldn't have trained for all of it. He has likely, even low balling it accumulated over a million years of training time. I don't think, and hope that Beerus will never truly be surpassed, unless they plan on making a villain who is a direct threat to the hierarchy of the Gods. Something like what they tried to do in Heroes but do it properly and give it a serious tone. When Goku, Vegeta and Trunks are training and all the Gods of Destruction show up it felt really epic. Like heroes was going to stop messing about. Then when the entire universe started having it's energy sapped and Beerus on his own managed to stop the drain on his entire universe it felt like this could have been a really large scale threat to existence itself. But once again the execution was lame since there is only so much you can do with 8 minute episodes. God imagine seeing the Goku, Future Gohan and Bardock family Kamehahema but in a proper episode of Dragon Ball Super.
I never thought he was a moved either at least in the manga. It was specifically stated that jiren and supposedly goku now were only above belmod and we dont know how strong belmod is in relation to beerus. Now based on the GoD battle royale, they all seem in be relative or same tier of power. While characters like Blue vegeta and toppo are considered candidates which seem to be the tier right under with goku and golden freeza being there too thanks to tanking hakais (albeit hand me down one). There is one guide that kinda complicates thing as it says jiren exceeds THE gods of the destruction so makes me thing it's not just plural which a magazine backs up but I guess that can be seen as hyperbole. Beerus based on that broly movie slip and the battle royale, along with quitela, seemingly is the strongest GoD. In that sense maybe it's a movin goalpost but as said, it was never set and only makes sense beerus is the strongest GoD otherwise him being a goalpost wouldnt be a big deal. The Vjump statement considering it says goku and vegeta are in the realm of gods (unless they just mean god ki but is different from the broly statement) then freeza is close to a GoD reads more like them saying black freeza finally caught up to them since Golden Freeza was still in that vague just under GoD level (tho ur right in beerus would consolidate the closer to part). Idk about specifically beerus but i do think that will be a focus of black freeza just narratively makes sense. In the anime it's more fullproof with Beerus thinking goku surpassed him, Jiren is stated to be beyond them with whis specifically referring to it as a tier and reach them by toei. I agree saying Goku supposedly surpassing beerus as just his Use of UI makes more sense considering the gods stood up when he completed it and again Comparing the toei website to that magazine and whis, I think we can just say it's hyperbole which is prob how we have to take things moving forward especially when anime moro and granolah arcs happen. Same in reference to broly where goku thinks he's reached that power overestimating cuz of how strong he was (since in anime he doesnt know beerus full power) Honestly one thing I dont see people address much is how it doesnt matter if beerus is surpassed/matched or not as i think we can all agree concretely UI and UE are god of destuction tier with black freeza seemingly joining them. Meaning eventually it will be hard to believe beerus isnt surpassed yet as more arcs go by, they'll get stronger while beerus is at a stand still (unless they pull a roshi) so I like how u bring up and the series itself that beerus can grow stronger. I think we'll get the rematch soon too which will put a end to this. To which goku doesnt even have to win just make beerus actually use his full power even if he gets one shot fulfilling the prophecy of being his rival and coming full circle of beerus hiding about his true power all the way back at the start of the series
My issue with Beerus is less power levels and more so the lack of consequence for him. He is an objectively incompetent god and outside of a good scare in the Tournament of Power he has never really paid for said ineptitude. Normally this series punishes characters being complacent and/or stupid like Vegeta. I'm not saying I want to see Goku, Vegeta or Frieza to give him a wake-up call but I do like the idea of one of the Hakaishins from the high-ranked universes or Whis giving him a wake up call to be less lazy This by the way is why I don't like the implication he's the strongest/one of the strongest destroyers because it feels narratively limiting if he's a big fish in a big pond, and it also shows he's gotten away with being inept
So many of you don't get it; IT'S NOT JUST HIS STRENGTH! Beerus's power is about PURE DESTRUCTION not just "me stronk" but PURE refined power, I believe it's less power based and more refinement of his power that makes him such a monster to deal with.
They should do a redcone whatever people call it that beerus vs ssg goku fight was to motivate a Saiyan for upcoming situation to fight for multiversial threat. That's why he had to fight him like he ks toe to toe.
Based on your comment on Beerus being the most dangerous …logically Kid Buu should’ve been considered the most powerful Buu since he was considered the most dangerous version.
Just imagine Super Shenron Dragon fears Beerus,the same deagon that brought back the universes Zeno erased.Also Beerus is the only character in all of DB that has Ultra Ego and Ultra Instinct.
Only thing about the power effeciency thing is that vegito and gogeta are the perfect warriors they could probably be super effecient like jiren easily
all the stuff u sayin is what i been tryin to explain to people for years goku and vegeta are not stronger than beerus or vegito or gogeta its the dumb youtubers who keep spreadin them false narratives and people eat it up and run with it and ui is not a angel power it is stated to be a god power
Your hypothetical situation where two characters have the same power, just one has more control was actually explored WAAAAY back in OG Dragon Ball as part of Goku's training with Po Po. Gokuhad to fight a doll clone of himself with the exact same strength and power level, except the doll had better energy control.
Beerus has mastered Ultra Ego and has Ultra Instinct on a expert level,he's also never used his full power.Regardless of the anime or manga Beerus is the most powerful G.O.D just like Whis is the most powerful Angel and the feats show that already.During the exhibition match Beerus was able to beat the other G.O.D. and his hakai (hax abilities) is powerful enough to erase characters like Arale that has god tier toon force powers. So yes Beerus is just that powerful and has been fighting heavily suppressed this whole time!!
The problem is most of dragon ball supers villain hype in the past 5 years have been "might be as strong as beerus and the other G.O.D." so it gets fucking annoying seeing frieza hyped up as "possibly" close to beerus. Its annoying as fuck. Especially when they end up being nowhere close and beerus can do shit like sneeze their powers away.
I can't believe a video like this even needs to exist. We have never seen Beerus's full power, so I have no clue why people assume that FULL POWER beerus has been surpassed. Beerus is not a moving goalpost, fans just incorrectly assumed he had been surpassed.
I'm tired of people sucking up the "OH JIREN WAS JUST MORE EFFICIENT AT PRESERVING KI" Bruh jiren was bounds and leaps MORE POWERFUL than goku and vegeta. For instance jiren literally blocking ssj God gokus punches with just a finger that's completely everything to do with overwhelming power. Goku and vegeta got soooo many times stronger during the tournament that by the time blue goku and vegeta fights jiren during the final moments tag teaming him thers blue forms was stronger thsn the ui sighn goku that faced kale and jiren still was more powerful yall can be idiots and suck up some trash retcon when u can clearly see the difrents in power jiren was because in base jirem already surpasses a God of destruction in blue in tye beginning goku and vegeta wasn't stronger than Belmod. There just retconing because jire. IS very strong. Even after goku uses mui jiren "unlocks hidden potential (basically)POWER that was hidden in him and once again surpassed mui by beating goku in a beam struggle and sent him flying down than goku got a friendship plot boost too win jiren was easily stronger than all of them. Yall can suck up vegetas excuse for loosing all yall want
In that case I guess ssj goku wasn't actually STRONGER than frieza in the namek saga when goku turned ssj in actuality goku just "preserved his ki better" ..... yeah ok
@jantheking7028 not worth of yap? what I was saying is just facts and I'm sure you wasn't just uncontrollably laughing out loud you just think putting lol makes whatever your saying after fully concrete for instance somone could be fully mad and not laughing out loud but yet still put (your so trash lol) anyways I'm just adding on to what your saying about the Fandom just spreading around false information such as beerus was surpassed is a moving goal poast and other things like jiren was actually the same strenth as goku and vegeta from start to finish of the tournament just that he had better ki control and at the end goku had better control which is bs too
i still think this is a moving goal post... I like beerus but its like... If supersaiyan god was able to give beerus a good fight. Now blue is a 50x multiplier ontop of god then to add more insult to injury beerus shit himself when goku did blue kaioken... All that without even mentioning Ultra instinct. And it would be fine if we saw beerus continuing to self improve but he does nothing. Even the writers had to somewhat confirm he's a moving goal post after the whole "70%" of his power was used against god goku.
honestly, I never took Goku calling Broly stronger than Beerus seriously. Goku has never actually seen Beerus at 100%, so how would he actually know that? People are taking that statement way out of context. Same thing for Supreme Kai about Vegito. Even if Shin is a god, when was the last time he actually saw Beerus go all out? I'll tell you when, it was when Beerus lied to Goku about using 100% during their battle. So Supreme Kai's statement is based off of a comparison to a lie that he only thinks was full power Beerus.
@@RevoluShane That's true, but this brings up another issue. shortly after the G.O.D. battle royale in manga Goku fights Toppo. But he tells Toppo that he can't sense his energy, just like the gods. Even after going through his transformations, Goku is still surprised at much stronger Toppo is. So when manga Goku makes the comparison between Broly and Beerus, its mostly just guess work as he can sense Broly but not Beerus. Manga Goku has a visualization of Beerus fighting, but no measurement to go by.
Goku can tell the depths of strength people have, happens multiple times throughout the series. Even if he's never seen Beerus' full power he knows what it is
@@xvoidxhunter2129 Its different for Beerus because he says he can't sense Beerus. Also, remember Goku believed it during their battle when Beerus said he was going all out, but that was a lie. Normally Goku can tell when someone is holding back, but that was an instance when he couldn't.
@@5h0ckblock I mean he couldnt sense him when he didnt have God Ki, yea. Thats just the basics of God Ki and Goku has it forever after that fight. Goku knows Beerus didnt go all out lol, he knows Beerus and Whis just saw his potential and decidwd not to blow up Earth because of that, hence why he doesnt think he can just beat Beerus as soon as he gets SSB. Makes sense anyway given it was his go round with a "whole new world" as he called it
@@SlimShadly wrong jiren is stronger then belmod in the manga to and Goku and Vegeta surpassed the weaker gods like sedria most of the gods are not as strong as y’all love to give them credit for. Beerus is like the only god who is fr strong strong
So Beerus a God that’s atleast 75 Million years old possibly hundreds is surpassed or close to being surpassed by mortals that have haven’t even been alive for 50 years.
In the zen exhibition, i don't see why goku saying beerus is going all out is taken as straight fact If goku hasnt seen beers full power how does he know where his limits are? Its like in the past one character thinks the other must be going all out due to the power difference only for it to turn out they still have another form or arent even at half power
u misread that, whis means goku and vegetas different style of fighting combinations would confuse a person that is vastly stronger than them, eg when goku and vegeta teamed on jiren even tho jiren being the stronger fighter
Even the grand supreme Kai the fat one got a huge buff in Moro I wonder how strong you think he is as he could fight a prime more although only won due to his hax but still he contested Moro and gave buu a massive boost just by awakening his memories wonder how strong you think he is
And we also have to think beerus has to be a prodigy very little training to increase his power aka freeza like but better and I'm sure beerus train after seeing Goku and Vegeta power increases
If you think vegito cant beat beerus with raw power without a timer than you dont know who vegito is. People thinks he's cocky but the way he fights is js like beerus. They both fight a weaker opponent at their best and draw out more power kinda like their teaching them. Js to only show the opponent that there still stronger. On top of that vegito is on many occasions called the perfect fighter. Vegeta and goku alone are incredibly good fighters but a fusion of them who's raw power is on beerus level would beat beerus of beerus used his raw power.
Complete Cell Max Vs Beerus
Your thoughts?
Beerus of course
Beerus ez
Beerus until its explicitly stated he's been surpassed by anyone
@@jasontchoudjen9740 Huh...
Why should it be a shock that people are upset about it. The whole point in Goku's character is to overcome and they just lazily move him like a goalpost. It's important for Goku to overcome but they keep pushing beerus okay now he's more powerful than that. It would be a smart decision in the creative work for Goku to surpass him or what's the point in his character. Now that doesn't mean people can't train to catch up with him.
Vegito: *uses true MUI + ultra ego + infinity kaioken + potential unleashed*
Beerus: how cute, now i only need to use 0,5% of my power to one shot you ☺
The funny he needs actually far far far far less😅 like 10^(-40000k)%
Yeah Beerus has never actually showcased his true full power... Beerus has always been this strong and he has always been mindful of not letting others know how strong he truly is...
I agree, Beerus made the statement in the manga that his mind is always on destruction and that there is no limit to his power.
We can interpret that statement entirely for what it is, Beerus quite literally grows infinitely simply by keeping his mind in a constant state of thought that signifies complete destruction of not only his opponent but his own limitations. Thus him saying that he has no limits to his power.
Beerus is very smart and keen and be understands mental fortitude and mental strength and agility via his experience.
We see the story is heading towards that direction with stating that Jiren simply knew how to utilize his power better than both Goku and Vegeta to maximize the upmost effectiveness of said power, he wasn’t actually that much stronger.
If the same can be said about Beerus and as Beerus has stated, then he not only has a higher mastery over said mentality of power and definition of strength, but he has refined this over eons of his existence.
And “Rivaling,” doesn’t mean that Beerus will be eclipsed, simply that both Goku and Vegeta will become relevant in the realm of his true power.
@@loneli_ yeah but the anime itself is very clear that nobody surpassed Beerus... They surpassed Belmod, not Beerus... Belmod was only SSB level at best, even Toppo and Blue Goku were already as strong or stronger than Belmod during the zen exhibition before the TOP
Beerus wasn't always this strong stop lying he gets stronger and stronger thanks to Ultra Ego. You always come on these comments spreading false information.
@@GodslayerSeiya Beerus doesn't even have or use Ultra ego, wtf are you even talking about? That's Vegeta's exclusive technique/form 😂😂😂 You always come on these comments saying some DUMBASS shit 💯... And Ultra Ego is a relatively new manga only technique/form, it wouldn't explain anything from the anime or movies... It's not a valid explaination whatsoever. Like I said Beerus has always been this strong and he's always holding back substantially... Funny how you think factual information is misinformation yet you're always misinformed and WRONG 🤣
13:47
The fact that people like unreal calls him lazy is just insane. Sure we've seen him be laying about for most of dragon ball super but peeps gotta remember that he's 75 million years old who knows what kind of intense training whis has put him throughout those years back 😂.
and who knows if he isnt secretly training with whis as well.
@@Arthas28 Very true.
It's because they're manchildren who fiend on GT
@@Arthas28 But the issue is that isn't SHOWN. It would be better if this were shown or stated somewhere so it makes more sense and isn't just pulled out of nowhere for plot convenience.
can you blame anyone for thinking he is lazy?... All we see him do is sleep and eat food.
Beerus wasn't overexagerating the million years power gap thing, he mans it quite literally cause he IS million (if not more) years old and it would take THAT much of time to actually surpass him, power means nothing without experience to boost
Facts bruh idk why ppl are so blind he said a million yrs and wasn’t worried bout vegeta having ultra ego beerus is different level I think makes the story better just imagine how whis said he can’t hold candle to grand priest it’s logic with beerus and these mortals
Broly would beg to differ about that last part
Nah, Beerus is like #4 now. Still incredible, but he's not that guy anymore
The way I see it. Goku and Vegeta have been playing a free to play MMO their whole lives and even though they've hit the f2p level cap, they still haven't grinded the right quests to level up their individual skills, and gaining God ki is like paying for the subscription for the first time.
Beerus is just the biggest Whale in their server
A hilarious yet accurate way to put it, really. And if you take the interpretation further, you can see the Grand Priest as a Moderator under the service of The Omni King (Owner/Creator in this case), and the Angels are just lesser Administrators keeping an eye on the players in their respective servers (Universes).
@@PurpleHeartE54 It's hilarious how true both of your comments are lmaooooo
I feel like for someone who’s 75 million years old, Beerus should pretty much incomparable when scaled next to mortals, yet seeing how he fights and all, even if he holds back, nobody should even be able to land a slight touch on him.
Nah honestly it just makes the writing for the other G.O.D.s a joke. Like how could any none divine characters meet them in power yet they have shown that most are a joke. It is bad writing!
I feel like there has to be some diminishing returns in that training though, like is 75 million years of training really noticeably different from 65 million years? from 10 million years? From 1 million years? Especially when you have literally the best teacher in the universe and no rivals to speak of. His body can only get so strong and his techniques so refined. and how much of that time was Beerus just in hibernation?
@@saphironkindrisBerrus has infinite potential so he has no limit to how strong his body can get. Berrus himself stated he has no limit because he only thinks of destruction.
@@Zachary6060 Beerus is a known liar especially when it comes to his exact power level so I don't consider that much evidence.
I like him letting people land blows, kind of like Vegeta did in the movie when Beerus slapped Bulma. But then immediately turned the tide like an absolute unit and knocked Vegeta out with a tap.
beerus became a moving goalpost the day him using 70% of his power was retconned
wasn’t that just a dub thing? Like in the original it was 1%
@@TheBlackThorneKnight Even 1% was wrong tho, but yeah, beerus isn't a moving goalpost
@@daichei6882 maybe when the saiyans get to around 50% he’d actually start training again.
@@daichei6882If it was 1% truly, SSB Goku wouldve surpassed Beerus at Resurection F. Its honestly dumb that Goku even challenged Beerus because of how much stronger he is to Goku. At least with how powerful he is now.
@@eobardthawn6903 I already said 1% was an error, I don't remember if it was in the manga too or only in the movie/anime tho
I think it's worthy to note Gas was one shot by base freiza. He had two more levels of power in the tank Gold and Black Goku and Vegeta may also have to transcend yet again. I think if Goku's evolution through Ultra Instinct, Vegeta has yet to break through his current ceiling with Ultra Ego. The final arc for these Characters could hopefully be the most epic in DragonBall yet. Fingers crossed 🤞
That wasn't base frieza. He turned into his black form for a second when he killed him.
Gas was not one shotted by base frieza. Yall gotta learn to read. Th color pages clearly show it was black frieza.
At least the official colored pages don't seem to do that. He powers up. There's shadows and speedlines, but Friezas hands, for example, are clearly white the whole time, while they are clearly black when he transforms and attacks Goku and Vegeta. There might be some intentional very short term foreshadowing about something being different there, but it's probably just intentionally unclear to spark a debate among the fanbase. @@jantheking7028
I hope we get SS4 canonized as the final evolution of Goku and Vegeta but still only put them 60-70% of Beerus. Like Beerus should body Omega Shenron with one hand if he went into the GT Universe xD
Beerus IS a moving goalpost throughout the anime/movies, and heres why:
After BOG it was clear that God Goku obviously hadnt fought full power, but used 70% of his (Beerus) power (according to Whis in the movie). Toriyama put out a God scale putting God Goku at 6, Beerus at a 10 and Whis at a 15. Even though in the anime Whis doesnt give a definitive number, the Scale would be consistent with Beerus reaction to Blue Kaioken during the U6 tournament as well (Visibly shocked and sweating and even stating "He was planning to use that against me?!"). Its also stated clearly that God Goku requires a good bit of effort from Beerus in order to not be bored, something that none God ki users couldnt do.
It should also be noted that Goku gets alot stronger after that fight with Beerus, for the simple fact that his God form is the base form power since he absorbed it into base. All his later transformations multiply his base the same as before. While we dont have definitive multipliers for God or Blue, that means just by transforming Goku is x400 his BOG SSG Self while in SS3 and an indeterminant amount stronger in God and Blue and eventually UI.
As far as Toriyamas God scale is concerned, Goku blew that out of the water a long time ago, and using the movie statements Goku is basically a few thousand % stronger than he was just by going SS3 so in that instance he also clears by a mile.
This isnt even factoring in the Kaioken Multipliers, Zenkai boosts, training and the ridiculous amps UI and MUI gave him in order to defeat Jiren and then everything post TOP.
Every GOD was bowing and giving Goku mad respect when he unlocked MUI including Beerus and Whis.
The only way Beerus ISNT getting surpassed is if he passively gets stronger, he trains off screen, or the writers arbitrarily increase his power so they can have him relevant for a future event (much like the rest of the cast in DBS for the TOP)
Which is why he's a *moving* goalpost and not a wall like Jiren was.
Theres also the stuff about God of Destruction tier being reached as early as the beginning of the TOP when Goku and Frieza tanked the Hakai from U4s GOD as well as Jiren being stated multiple times to be above his own GOD and Toppo being one himself. Then theres the Broly statement in the 2018 Broly movie from Goku in which he says he might be stronger than Beerus which would mean Blue Gogeta is at the very least stronger than Broly movie Beerus.
In the anime theres a rivalry between Beerus Champa and Quitela but we dont have a GOD battle royale like in the manga to state whether or not Beerus is the strongest God or not.
Even in the manga its stated that Blue Vegito in the Black Arc is Beerus level, which if true means Manga Beerus is weaker than Anime Beerus but stronger than BOG Movie Beerus.
Theres honestly so many things throughout the DBS era that makes it obvious either the writers DONT KNOW how strong they want him to be, or they just argue he's getting stronger over time that its not even really a debate
@@305backup Idgaf if Black Frieza is beating Beerus in the manga, same with Beast Gohan lol
Youre missing the point that because they never show him even remotely trying, you cant say hes getting stronger. I think they cleverly written him to have his power "up in the air".
Hes the one character the never put in a fight so you cant do exactly what youre doing now, trying to pinpoint his exact power level.
I thibk youre right in that he has to be one of the strongest, being supposedly the strongest destroyer, however i think that was also the entire point. Its not so much that theyre moving his power, more like hes always been insanely strong and only after characters like Jiren show their power do we truly realize how strong Beerus really is.
Hes been around for thousands of years longer than all of these characters lol so i feel like theyve written him at a point where he is so far beyond the regular characters that there is no point showing his power.
I would say hes definitely designed to be a goalpost, but nobody realized how far the goalpost would be. Its also important to remember the anime and the manga are not the same thing, manga and anime very often take creative liberties and change things.
In that way its like you said, the goalpost isnt moving, Anime Beerus is just way stronger the Manga Beerus and always has been.
Regardless of my bitching. This was an insightful video and I’m reconsidering my position lol
Appreciate it
I do agree with a lot of what you said except for implying that Belmod is supposed to be much weaker than Beerus or something. It’s pretty clear that all the destroyers are around each other’s levels.
I think the reason why people see beerus as this moving goalpost is because of how the anime interpret the 'jiren is stronger than the gods' while in the manga is different, its just jiren is stronger than one god.
Also i'm pretty sure with Hakai, Beerus and other gods can most likely increase their power, just depends on who mastered it to whatever level imo
Another thing is translation errors. In the 'Battle of Gods' movie, in dub, Whis or Beerus, I forget who, stated Berrus used about 10% while in the sub, Beerus was stated to sue only 1% of his power. Now add to the fact that was at the start where Goku and Vegeta undoubtedly got stronger since then, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to give Goku Black trouble, Jiren, Moro, and whoever else. Training with Whis/Beerus for a lot of it, and when Black Frieza comes out of nowhere and one-shots fully healed Ultra Ego/Instinct, and we're told that Beerus is still stronger, it feels like either A. The story isn't progressing or B. Beerus is as strong as the author needs him to be or Both. I love DragonBall, but Super's writing at points is awful.
@@meburritoloco7475 70%*
I don't think it really makes a difference since all of the GoDs can throw hands with each other in the manga
In the movie it was stated Beerus was using 70% of his power.@@meburritoloco7475
- 6:24 I think Lord Beerus has mastered UE + incomplete UI at its highest, so he can always grow in power no matter what. In Battle of Gods he could’ve only be using god destruction ki...but not any doctrine.
Yeah beerus has full mastery of ue but it isn't called ultra ego to him, that is what they call hakaishin form
I agree. I think there are 3 forms of gods. Base Ki, (which Jiren, UI Goku, and Ego Vegeta rival GoDs.), destruction Ki( Base Ki, multiplied with destruction, and UI Ki. Beerus is amplified with incomplete UI ki, and destruction energy.
@@eobardthawn6903 well what I think is the stages are
There base form like just standing
Then base form surpressed like using less than 8%.
then base form less surpressed like using 20 to 50% of their power
Then serious mode which is around like 60 to 80 of their power
Then hakaishin form that's 100%
Them hakaishin form plus ui( Beerus only though)
This is because the don't have transformations like the Saiyan's the destroyers just increase the amount of power they are using to fight you
The most important characters in the show can’t seem to go through the story without some manner of transformation - So chances are that if Frieza threw hands with Beerus, Beerus would likely unveil some manner of ‘destruction form’.
Super is all about money-making through hype, and their favourite way of doing that bar fusions, are transformations.
You know.
Seeing Beerus with hakaishin form would be nice.
Transformations been kinda overused since the cell arc tbh
Beerus would reveal a secret transformation only for frieza to reveal an even newer stronger form, blacker frieza. They make tons of money and the fans eat it up because oooh shiny new transformation we’ve never seen that before.
@@cornbread9512 I agree with ya on that. Frieza already rushed in once with only 1 form… and he’s too smart to do the same thing again so he definitely has another form under his sleeve. But if he doesn’t I think he might fuse with either cooler or frost (my reasoning is I feel he must’ve trained with someone to achieve this type of power while in the other hyperbolic time chamber)
Beerus will not be surpassed because the entire narrative of DBS is that Goku will eventually rival Beerus and give him a proper challenge... This is how super will likely end, with Goku amd Beerus having a rematch
Don’t forget Vegeta. The oracle fish said “They” will rival Beerus. Even that raises a question. Are they individually a worthy rival to Beerus? Or do they have to work together to even rival Beerus.
The dbs series? Yeah. Not the franchise tho
@@Alastordadeer Nobody said "the Franchise".... I clearly said it's the entire narrative of DBS
@@pleaseforgiveme1749 that was an additional prophecy after the original prophecy which was the reason Beerus woke up in the first place... the original prophecy only speaks of the super saiyan god (singular) but it seems as if the prophecies can change over time and now Vegeta will eventually rival Beerus as well
@@reptilian_geneticist nobody said that you mentioned the franchise either, it’s just clarifying nothing more
i think you might have missed some important points.
1. the whole battle of gods story initially could have been surmised as "goku goes ss god and battles against beerus well enough to impress him" this puts some logical bounds on the power of beerus. their was a statement that if god Goku was a 6 beerus was a 10 and whis was a 15 this obviously isn't accurate in the current version but it gives a pretty good insight into the way that beerus was thought about in that movie. the story of goku impressing beerus doesn't make sense if beerus is so vastly powerful that goku's super sayan god form is roughly as insignificant compared to his own power as ssj3 was. so this presents us with a dilema, goku is clearly much much much stronger than he was in battle of gods, perhaps tens of thosuands or hundreds of thousands of times greater. if god goku was 2% of beerus than blue would have made him an equal to beerus assuming no base increases. if god goku was 0.1% as strong as beerus than blue kaioken x 20 would equal beerus. assuming that mui is as far removed from blue kaioken x20 as ssj is from base (it must be more than that imo) than if god goku had been 0.002% as strong as beerus than a mui would have equaled him assuming no base improvements. the simple fact is nothing about the movie battle of gods makes sense with beerus being as strong as he is currently portrayed, and it disagrees so strongly with the current power scale, it seems questionable if this movie is even still canon.
ch2. in the u6/u7 tournament beerus reacts with fear when seeing kkx20 blue goku heavily implying he was worried, this concern doesn't make sense uness goku is a significant percentage of the power of beerus. if you power scale the boosts between the u6/u7 tournament and then it seems clear to me that goku's base form gets at a minimum a thousand times stronger by the time the cerial saga ends so the same dilema emerges.
if kkx20 goku were 0.1% as strong as beers (already seriously making the reaction of beerus seem out of place) than gas saga goku should be as strong or stronger than him.
then we have jiren who was originally stated to be "as powerful his god of destruction" (th-cam.com/users/shortsn8jHCILLt9Q?si=c3fNpqHsymIqnCkj) i power scale belmod as #2 or #3 god of destruction. beerus beats all of them but he has to use ui to do it and while he wins its clearly not a "no diff" fight, so its makes sense to scale beerus as being within an order of magnitude of the other gods of destruction. he might be stronger but probs not more than 10X the other gods. so that means he's less than 10x jiren. so that means with the base increases evident in the battles against morrow and gas that if goku were to get 10 times stronger in those 2 arcs (something he clearly did) then he would defeat beerus. this is why beerus is descried as a moving goal post. this is why i view the statement of "black frieza being almost as strong as a god of destruction " to mean roughly jack squat as literally every statement we've gotten so far that compared anyone to a god of destruction or anyone to beerus has been retconed to mean nothing
Nice breakdown. Simple fact is the entire reason Beerus even woke up in the first place is supposedly because Super Saiyan God would provide him with an interesting challenge. You are absolutely correct that if Beerus still dwarfs current Goku, then he should have been able to one-shot the original SSG form about as easily as SS3. The fact the plotline has basically just resorted to making Beerus power level "stronger than whatever Goku is right now" proves he is clearly a moving goalpost.
I think it’s HILARIOUS Beerus (cat) & Quitela (mouse) are the strongest Gods Of Destruction! Tom & Jerry reference 😜 If any character has a chance or the POTENTIAL to beat Beerus it’s Black Frieza! He multiplies faster than the Saiyan! Plus, he could a 5th transform stacked with Black Frieza! He’s the GOAT 💯💪🏼
He is a moving goalpost, only if we are taking into account only the manga he isn't.
1. Everyone knows Beerus in the BoG movie had to use 70% of his power to defeat SSJ God Goku.
2. In Ressurection F Whis says that if Goku and Vegeta Blue fought together they could go toe to toe with Beerus.
3. Right before the ToP in the anime, Whis says that "there is a mortal that not even his god of destruction can defeat, and that god of destruction is stronger than lord Beerus" (later Whis confirms he was talking about Jiren and Belmoth). Even an anime guide stated that UI Goku surpassed Beerus.
Anime clearly pulled a dumb move that wasnt linked to source material.
As its clear Toryama didnt want Beerus surpassed just yet.
Also all that stuff was just TOP hype.
Belmod was never stronger than Beerus.
you need to do some research before commenting
1 - Beerus later on said that he lied about using 70%
2 - so did the kai
3 - Beerus said he only lost in arm wrestling and that god was revealed to be Quetilla not belmod, so again you're wrong.
@gerz667 1. No, he didn't lie in the movie, he said it to Whis alone. Even Toriyama in an interview said that if Beerus is a 10, then God Goku is a 6.
2. No, he did not.
3. Again you are wrong, in the anime that god was Belmod, in the manga it was Quitela.
And you are saying that I'm the one that should do research? You have no shame.
@@dimitri4888these r all in regards to the movie not to the anime… the anime removed all those quotes
@@robinlike2395 Doesn't matter, the point of conversation is if the "goalpost" Beerus has ever been moved or not, and yes he has been moved as I just proved. Also obviously the third thing I mentioned is from the anime, so I don't know why you say that 😒
Beerus wasn't necessarily going all out in the zen exhibition... We know for a fact that Belmod wasn't going all out and literally played dead yet he didn't get erased... so its very likely that Beerus was still holding back as well
False. It was outright stated through Goku that Beerus was going all out. This is further backed up how damaged they were at the end of the fight with them requiring their angels to heal them.
Or everything just gets retconned.
@@charzanboo9940 FALSE. That's a misinterpretation. Goku is just under the impression that Beerus is going all out because the Grand priest said that they had to... Goku is impressed with what he sees so he's like wow that's Beerus at full power...
But as I just explained, Belmod was holding back and didn't get erased so Beerus could have been holding back as well... And you can still get damaged when suppressed or holding back, we've seen countless examples... So needing to get healed doesn't mean anything
@@saitama944 no it was established from the very beginning that Goku would become a Rival for Beerus, that's the entire narrative of DBS, that's why Beerus woke up in the first place...
So Goku should never actually surpass Beerus but he should eventually become a worthy rival.... Nothing was really ever reconned concerning Beerus strength except for the original movie scaling when Toriyama scaled them on 1-10 scale...
@@reptilian_geneticist Prove it. Prove it was a misinterpretation, especially given that Whis was standing right beside Goku and didn't correct him on his assessment, lol. And before you say Whis just didn't feel like it, he felt no such reluctance on saying Beerus's ultra Instinct being imperfect a moment later.
I think people really downplay how absolutely insane fusion truly is and that Vegito/Gogeta being compared to Beerus at all doesn't lower Beerus. Base Vegito immediately performs better against fused Zamasu than SSJB Goku or Vegeta did, putting the base potara fusion multiplier minimum at like 20,000+ even while low-balling(ssj1 50x, SSJ2 2x, SSJ3 4x, SSJG at least 10x due to being "far beyond" ssj3, SSJB at least 5x SSJG due to SSJG>10%SSJB in the manga). Base Gogeta immediately starts performing decently against SSJ1 Broly compared to SSJB Goku and Vegeta getting auto-slapped, meaning the fusion dance multiplier is also like 20,000+ (except even more as goku and vegeta have perfected ssj blue by this point, with vegeta also having his royal blue).
Characters literally thousands of times stronger than Goku or Vegeta individually MAYBE rivaling Beerus isn't far fetched at all.
You get it!
I think you’re pretty much correct.
Important thing about Gogeta and Vegito though!
I mean people forget that Fusion is stated to multiply Goten and Trunks’ power and Potara is like multiplication but even stronger to the point Elder Kai think Goku and Gohan wouldn’t have to transform where Buutenks then using the Fusion wouldn’t win. (Though some guides state Fusion draws out the power of the fusees, seemingly in addition to its weaker power boost.) The whole “greater than the sum of their parts multiplied tens of times over” is just an expression for “they’re way stronger now and no, us as the writers are not going to tell you, the audience by how many times specifically so stop asking.”
If a Vegito gets 25x stronger, Goku and Vegeta have each gotten 5x stronger. If a fusion is 100x stronger than before, the fusees have each gotten 10x stronger. If the 2 get 1,000x stronger, their fusion will get 1,000,000x stronger.
Goku and Vegeta have gotten so many times stronger with numbers with so many 0s we wouldn’t even know what number to call it unless we plugged it into the internet so it could tell us and it would take us at least 10 seconds to pronounce the whole number correctly after a few tries.
The point is, it’s entirely plausible for Gogeta and Vegito to surpass Beerus (and no one above that surprisingly) without Goku and Vegeta catching up to Beerus. Especially when it comes to Gogeta and Vegito, those two will always be a “moving goalpost” as opposed to Beerus.
I also think some people conflate anime statements and manga statements despite them being different continuities. Or use the BoG and FnF Z movies, where Toriyama literally stated he hadn’t given any thought to the future of DB. Beerus does use 70% of his power in that movie specifically then in FnF it’s stated that both SSGSSs could go toe-to-toe with Beerus via teamwork. This is because SSGSS Goku was getting pushed back being near Golden Frieza’s blast but Toriyama stated that he couldn’t do anything to Beerus. So at least then, it’s reasonable to think Beerus in the old Z continuity may have trained or simply had his strength retconned.
keep ur videos bro, i like ur style my man
I appreciate that bro
@@RevoluShane i will like to propose a vs, why 8 gates guy vs sasuke isnt close, (counting the last atack of guy with his leg)
u could notice that guy bends time space with speed, the only one who had make it, that means that the mass is in equals terms with his speeed
People really take a lot of feats from that fight they had. Goku wasn’t shaking the universe, beerus was. Goku has never done that since. They’ve been saying beerus is leagues ahead. No one wants to listen 🤷🏽♂️
We need a Beerus back story arc 💪🏽
Beerus has some degree of Ultra Instinct and has the Power of Destruction which comes with techniques like Ultra Ego the opposite of Ultra Instinct. He has complete mastery of Ultra Ego and it's a power driven by his instincts as a God of Destruction to destroy. He continues to get stronger having no limit to how strong he can continue to become.
Idk why fans can't seem to understand this it's very simple the story itself tells you and than on top of that Toyotarou himself stated this in his interview for the Granolah arc when talking about him designing Ultra Ego.
Beerus doesn’t have UE. As far as we know.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 you obviously lack information for one Beerus himself told Vegeta Ultra Instinct ain't the only technique of the gods. Secondly did you not read my comment when I said Toyotarou stated Ultra Ego is the technique of the Gods of Destruction. But let me educate and help you out.
@@GodslayerSeiya You’re obviously an idiot. Nowhere has it been confirmed that Beerus has Ultra Ego, that’s a name Vegeta came up with himself by the way. With the exception of possibly Toppo’s hakaishin form, Vegeta is the only user of UE we know of.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 Toyotarou interview with Uchida last year on the official DB site talking about Ultra Ego and the design for it. He says Ultra Ego is used by Gods of Destruction idk what you been reading but even without this interview it's literally hinted and strongly implied Beerus is talking about Ultra Ego when he tells Vegeta Ultra Instinct ain't the only oy technique of the gods. Than Toyotarou comes out and flat out confirms it in his interview. The video link I sent is the same statement from his interview that i just sent in this comment
Q: WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT BEERUS WHILE DESIGNING IT?
Toyotarou- A: THAT'S RIGHT. I WAS. ULTRA INSTINCT IS A TECLINIQUE OF THE ANGELS, BUT "EGO" IS DIFFERENT, AND IT'S A TECHNIQUE USED BY GODS OF DESTRUCTION.
@@GodslayerSeiya My bad, I thought you meant exclusively as a transformation.
i feel like the only chracters that can push beerus is TUI Goku, UE Vegeta, Jiren and Broly
PS: if they play their cards right Black Freiza has potential to take beerus head on
True cope 😂 even the wish Granola made the seemingly excluded the gods, Granola never seemed weaker than Shin or Dende who are gods
He IS a moving goal post
You didn’t pay attention to details .
@@samadagoat7769 And you didn't pay attention to how Beerus has benn used
@@AudrionIrks nah you just not smart enough to understand details .
@@samadagoat7769 Nah you are just a toxic fanboy, because the only damn reason nowdays Beerus is relevant is because somehow he id still mor powerful than Goku when that makes no sense.
Pay attention to the manga or anime instead of a youtube video and being an asshole about it.
@@AudrionIrks lmao I think you slow
The reason Beerus is called a moving goalpost is because he really seems like the final stop without the story becoming something Toriyama would never do (IE some rebellion against the Angels/Zeno). Meaning once Beerus falls we either A. Find reason to fight EGP/Zeno or B. End the series wholesale. There is no other option especially when we're already stretching thin for villains these days.
Keep them videos coming bro! There great
Thanks! Will do!
*They're😎
@@yes3802 thank you !
Reminder that in the manga vegito is point blank stated to have more power than berus. Yes berus is a moving goalpost cope harder
💯
facts
the live in lllinois 😂😂😂
So this entire comment section is gonna ignore that Jiren at the Tournament of power was stated to be above every god of destruction (which includes beerus) sorry they keep wanking beerus off because if Beerus using 60% of his power against ssg goku at the beginning of super…yeah I think that alone is simple enough to show they have moved the goal posts and it’s honestly boring.
To Quote a random commenter who's name I forgot: *"The stronger they make Beerus, the scarier Whis bscomes."*
Actually Beerus is a moving goalpost because his strength was initially set up. In the battle of gods movie, Beerus was stated to have used just under 70% of his power against super saiyan god Goku. Not to mention how Akira Toriyama ranked Beerus, super saiyan god Goku, and Whis on a number scale, with Beerus being a 10, super saiyan god Goku being a 6, and Whis being a 15. Yet Goku and Vegeta achieved the stronger super saiyan blue in the resurrection F movie, and they are still considered weaker than Beerus. Not to mention Whis made a statement in that movie that Goku and Vegeta could go toe-to-toe with even Beerus if they worked together. In dragonball super, it becomes less apparent how much of his true strength that Beerus uses, but his reactions to Goku's super saiyan blue kaioken state and Goku achieving ultra instinct. The series and manga just makes it seem that despite Goku and Vegeta getting stronger, Beerus is still stronger, and it's done in a way that makes it seem like Beerus is a moving goal post. I do believe that Beerus is the strongest in universe 7 (not counting Whis), and one of if not the strongest of the gods of destruction.
That was for the movies before the inception of the DBS story
@@RevoluShane His point though is they keep changing stuff in the movies and the anime in regards to if Goku surpassed Beerus.
For instance in the anime dragon ball super they have implied that Beerus has been surpassed by Goku multiple time's and keep backtracking.
Beerus shits brick's when Goku goes ssj blue kaioken × 10 and even when Goku goes ultra instinct.
Beerus even looked like he was going to die when he seen Jiren power up.
For a second, I thought that was sayain scholar voice lol
It is very simple beerus is milions of years old
His training alone surpasses 10 years blavk frieza
The entire of dragon ball history is a drop for beerus he is like a literal force of nature
He’s been alive for hundreds of millions of years it’s a insult to think the saiyans are close to his level
if anything manga wise… this is the only way this makes sense.
if we take the current goku and vegeta and make them fuse into vegitto we can actually gauge how strong everyone is
so giving the new zenkai boost if we compare G&V at there best they should be as strong as ssj 2 vegito (or if by scaling the base form as both of there strongest from then they would not stand a chance)
so that means that for black frizza 2 completely one shot them both he would have to be ssg or ssbss vegito level of power.
thus that means that beeruss would have to be Ui or UE vegito level of power
Whis should be goal post . It's been traditional trend Goku suppressing his master through Dragonball
Beerus trained goku first tho.. battle of gods was beerus training goku how to fight as a god .. Not an actual fight. So beerus is his first teacher
i honestly hope beerus will never be surpassed. I hope they'll only be able to actually make beerus go full power and hurt him, but not beat him even if they fuse
I agree Beerus has never been intimidated by Goku & Vegeta's training and their new transformations. If he believed they had come close to his level of power or even surpassed him, Beerus would never let them train on his planet. He was also never worried about Broly's level of power or any villain. Beerus even said he could easily defeat merged Zamasu. He has never doubted his power.
Yeah i don't think Beerus does any training at all... The guy is lazy and he's millions of years old, he literally has millions of years of training under his belt already...
We know the gods that were not participating in the Tournament of Power (kind of reminds me of the Espada) were excluded due to their furocity in their own respected universes. I just hope Beerus will always be higher than Goku, Vegeta, and Freiza where getting only 70% of his power is as close as they will get. Lets see Freiza get his redemption arc so he finally gives up his conquest and starts to turn heel - like Vegeta did.
Change estate GT goku is far stronger than super goku he is a true immortal with omnipotence immunity and boundless hax
Beerus > Black Frieza > Gas > Angel Moro(Merus absorbed) > Jiren > Broly... Broly may be stronger in raw power but jiren is the smarter fighter and has better ki control which is why I put him above broly.
Nah, i still refuse to belive that he ISN'T a moving goal post. I just feel like they dont have anything planned as a continuation of super so having beerus be below goku would practically just mean the end of super
I actually think Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, and even Broly are approaching Beerus’ power. In the scan used at timestamp 17:28, you can see a bit of dialogue explaining that Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta’s (not Super Saiyan Blue Evolution) punch made Beerus’ hand shake. There’s no indication of him saying it hurt or even tickled, but I believe this means that Goku and co are going to be ON Beerus’ level in 1-2 arcs.
You’re assuming that “shaken” beerus was trying, this is the ssg situation all over again lol
@@ttf1298 Yes, I am. I believe Beerus was using 40-50% of his power in that fight.
My thought process is simple when I watched battle of the gods and with the evidence in comparison to what I was hearing them say told me that Beerus never went past 50% of his power he’ll I don’t even think he was using 35% of his power. He was training Goku by speaking a language that Goku would understand thoroughly. And by the need of the fight he got to see just what a saiyan god could do and was actually happy cuz they have serious potential for growth.
Battle of Gods:
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta (enraged by bulma getting slapped): Tossed around Beerus like a ragdoll and tanked a head-on punch before being outclassed moments later. Arguably drew blood from Beerus, depending on what the red stuff was.
Granolah Arc:
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Limit Breaker Evolution Full Power Vegeta (enraged by finding out that beerus caused the destruction of his people, his planet, and his kingdom): Instantly thrashed upon landing a single decent hit.
If Beerus wasn't a moving goalpost, almost any SSB would one-shot him
He's absolutely a moving goalpost. In battle of gods goku was supposedly 70% of Beerus but every arc no matter how strong goku and vegeta get Beerus constantly shifts to be stronger. It's bad writing and annoying.
No mortal should be stronger then the destroyer of their universe.
That’s not the issue bro. We agree on that. The writing should have never said that is the point
This is an L on the part of the original BoG movie but everything after this is consistent that Beerus is far above the rest of the cast.
Beerus was lying if you watched the show he was bluffing to get goku to go all out even whis stated this as they was heading back to thier world
And you using the bog movie power statements then they hold no value and is immediately contradicted in the manga anime
The warriors that beerus was talking about in the original battle of gods movie who he said the multiverse pawned whom surpassed even he and Whis are likely simply any of the angels that surpass whis in power, grand priest and zeno bodyguards, maybe zarama, and any characters from potential mortals to gods from the demon realm, other universes, or outer realms like the original realm of the namekians etc… whom haven’t been introduced to the franchise yet that surpass Whis in power
None of the people we’ve seen yet outside of the angels, body guards, maybe zarama, meerus, and grand priest surpass beerus
Quitela and ultra fusion comes the closest after them
Then comes complete cell max or super complete cell max cell revived, black frieza, Broly, gohan, vegeta, goku, slim buu, etc…
It actually wasn't ambiguous at all in the anime whether or not Beerus had been surpassed... It was perfectly clear that Beerus was never surpassed
The statement that Goku had surpassed Beerus is very misinterpreted til this day.
I always seen that statement as Goku when using omen phase 3 surpassed the version of Beerus that he had fought against during Battle Of Gods. It wouldn’t make sense that Goku surpassed Beerus at full power because we never seen Beerus at full power.
There are no statements from Beerus, outside of pure shock and admiration for Goku for even being able to achieve such a state, that even he himself have not mastered along with the other GODs.
Nothing indicates that Goku completely eclipsed Beerus in either the anime or manga.
@@loneli_ yeah there's actually no statement whatsoever that Goku surpassed Beerus.... Whis and Beerus just say "he's done it" and they're obviously referring to the achievement of MUI which is the context of what's happening at that moment....
But people like to make crazy interpretations and take things out of context in order to fit their narratives
@@reptilian_geneticistI whole heartedly agree brother. Even in the manga we see that Beerus has some lesser version of UI and from when he trained Vegeta he seems to have no need for UI since if Beerus can utilize his own version of “Ultra Ego,” he seems to be able to confidently rival an UI level of power and he states this confidently when training Vegeta.
I don’t see Goku and Vegeta reaching that realm of power until after the black frieza arc or until the end of z arc. We need to see them jump multiple hurdles and really work for this level of power, stakes need to be high and the gods need to be either involved to clearly set a goal post or completely removed to allow for our characters to simply grow beyond their current selves to where they can now rival the high tier GODs or even Beerus himself.
@@loneli_ it's even stated in the anime that Beerus can use Ultra Instinct, just not at will... But Ultra Instinct is actually irrelevant against someone significantly stronger...
This is the same reason why MUI Goku can't defeat someone like Whis, it doesn't work against significantly stronger opponents
I pretty much agree, with more information we just got more insight into how strong beerus could be. Bro could essentially have a further ue/a hakai mode&base iu He could probably even put em together & kinda use both at once.
Beerus is that dude
beerus killed aralie a litteral unbeatable gag character. even though its not cannon , still impressive berus hakaied a ghost
He didn't kill aralie it was implied that gag characters gag power doesn't work on him and emplies that he can easily kill them
Jiren, goku & vegeta has barely surpassed gods in their normal power states not using energy of destruction!
An incomplete hakaishin form increased supersaiyan blue tier toppo power to kaioken × 20!
And ultra ego took vegeta to Mui level of powers, so it isn't so hard to think that a true destroyer god can utilise destruction energy in more efficient & meaningful ways.
I mean Vegeta basically apologizes to Beerus and says that he is but a novice when it comes to using destruction. There's no doubt Beerus is far more efficient with his version.
It is more of a Question than a statement that "closer to a God of Destruction ?" because there is a ? at the end of that sentence so even Black frieza is not as strong as a God of Destruction I am sure they will say that when Black frieza returns
Accept it? I’m loving it! Beerus is effin awesome!
It’s in his lore that his power is limitless cause he constantly is thinking abt destruction
Long story short. IGNORE THE ANIME PEOPLE AND READ THE DAMN MANGA. Vegito in the manga was also far far more powerful than seen in the anime
Plottwist: Frieza is close to understanding/obtaining Destruction Energy, not to the power level of a GoD.
I think the reason why fans think Goku and Vegeta are approaching Beerus is that narratively the writers keep using Beerus and the Gods of destruction as a tool to explain that our current villain is THAT much of a threat. I think Merged Zamasu was compared to Beerus by Shin in the manga. Of course we are led to believe that Jiren is stronger than Belmond, and once we hear that we know Jiren is a force to be reckoned with.
But Goku and Vegeta are roughly in their 50s I think. So let's say they trained constantly since they were 5. That's 45 years of training. Even for Broly that's around the same with his evolutionary advantage. But Beerus sealed Old Kai in the Z Sword 75 Million years ago. So he is at least that old. That is MILLIONS of years of training at the very least. Even if Beerus wouldn't have trained for all of it. He has likely, even low balling it accumulated over a million years of training time. I don't think, and hope that Beerus will never truly be surpassed, unless they plan on making a villain who is a direct threat to the hierarchy of the Gods. Something like what they tried to do in Heroes but do it properly and give it a serious tone. When Goku, Vegeta and Trunks are training and all the Gods of Destruction show up it felt really epic. Like heroes was going to stop messing about. Then when the entire universe started having it's energy sapped and Beerus on his own managed to stop the drain on his entire universe it felt like this could have been a really large scale threat to existence itself. But once again the execution was lame since there is only so much you can do with 8 minute episodes.
God imagine seeing the Goku, Future Gohan and Bardock family Kamehahema but in a proper episode of Dragon Ball Super.
I never thought he was a moved either at least in the manga. It was specifically stated that jiren and supposedly goku now were only above belmod and we dont know how strong belmod is in relation to beerus. Now based on the GoD battle royale, they all seem in be relative or same tier of power. While characters like Blue vegeta and toppo are considered candidates which seem to be the tier right under with goku and golden freeza being there too thanks to tanking hakais (albeit hand me down one). There is one guide that kinda complicates thing as it says jiren exceeds THE gods of the destruction so makes me thing it's not just plural which a magazine backs up but I guess that can be seen as hyperbole. Beerus based on that broly movie slip and the battle royale, along with quitela, seemingly is the strongest GoD. In that sense maybe it's a movin goalpost but as said, it was never set and only makes sense beerus is the strongest GoD otherwise him being a goalpost wouldnt be a big deal.
The Vjump statement considering it says goku and vegeta are in the realm of gods (unless they just mean god ki but is different from the broly statement) then freeza is close to a GoD reads more like them saying black freeza finally caught up to them since Golden Freeza was still in that vague just under GoD level (tho ur right in beerus would consolidate the closer to part). Idk about specifically beerus but i do think that will be a focus of black freeza just narratively makes sense.
In the anime it's more fullproof with Beerus thinking goku surpassed him, Jiren is stated to be beyond them with whis specifically referring to it as a tier and reach them by toei. I agree saying Goku supposedly surpassing beerus as just his Use of UI makes more sense considering the gods stood up when he completed it and again Comparing the toei website to that magazine and whis, I think we can just say it's hyperbole which is prob how we have to take things moving forward especially when anime moro and granolah arcs happen. Same in reference to broly where goku thinks he's reached that power overestimating cuz of how strong he was (since in anime he doesnt know beerus full power)
Honestly one thing I dont see people address much is how it doesnt matter if beerus is surpassed/matched or not as i think we can all agree concretely UI and UE are god of destuction tier with black freeza seemingly joining them. Meaning eventually it will be hard to believe beerus isnt surpassed yet as more arcs go by, they'll get stronger while beerus is at a stand still (unless they pull a roshi) so I like how u bring up and the series itself that beerus can grow stronger. I think we'll get the rematch soon too which will put a end to this. To which goku doesnt even have to win just make beerus actually use his full power even if he gets one shot fulfilling the prophecy of being his rival and coming full circle of beerus hiding about his true power all the way back at the start of the series
To actually be a GoD,one has to be the most powerful being outside an angel in their universe.
My issue with Beerus is less power levels and more so the lack of consequence for him. He is an objectively incompetent god and outside of a good scare in the Tournament of Power he has never really paid for said ineptitude. Normally this series punishes characters being complacent and/or stupid like Vegeta. I'm not saying I want to see Goku, Vegeta or Frieza to give him a wake-up call but I do like the idea of one of the Hakaishins from the high-ranked universes or Whis giving him a wake up call to be less lazy
This by the way is why I don't like the implication he's the strongest/one of the strongest destroyers because it feels narratively limiting if he's a big fish in a big pond, and it also shows he's gotten away with being inept
I been tryna tell these folks for years
So many of you don't get it; IT'S NOT JUST HIS STRENGTH! Beerus's power is about PURE DESTRUCTION not just "me stronk" but PURE refined power, I believe it's less power based and more refinement of his power that makes him such a monster to deal with.
This answer is the one!
Power refinement and application is the way this series is going
They should do a redcone whatever people call it that beerus vs ssg goku fight was to motivate a Saiyan for upcoming situation to fight for multiversial threat. That's why he had to fight him like he ks toe to toe.
Cuz ultra instinct ain't the only technique of the gods. Thought he was crippin for a sec. 😂😂😂
Based on your comment on Beerus being the most dangerous …logically Kid Buu should’ve been considered the most powerful Buu since he was considered the most dangerous version.
We got the distinction in the Buu arc.
Beerus destroys things for his job, like other GoDs
Just imagine Super Shenron Dragon fears Beerus,the same deagon that brought back the universes Zeno erased.Also Beerus is the only character in all of DB that has Ultra Ego and Ultra Instinct.
Only thing about the power effeciency thing is that vegito and gogeta are the perfect warriors they could probably be super effecient like jiren easily
all the stuff u sayin is what i been tryin to explain to people for years goku and vegeta are not stronger than beerus or vegito or gogeta its the dumb youtubers who keep spreadin them false narratives and people eat it up and run with it and ui is not a angel power it is stated to be a god power
Your hypothetical situation where two characters have the same power, just one has more control was actually explored WAAAAY back in OG Dragon Ball as part of Goku's training with Po Po. Gokuhad to fight a doll clone of himself with the exact same strength and power level, except the doll had better energy control.
Very true
Beerus has mastered Ultra Ego and has Ultra Instinct on a expert level,he's also never used his full power.Regardless of the anime or manga Beerus is the most powerful G.O.D just like Whis is the most powerful Angel and the feats show that already.During the exhibition match Beerus was able to beat the other G.O.D. and his hakai (hax abilities) is powerful enough to erase characters like Arale that has god tier toon force powers. So yes Beerus is just that powerful and has been fighting heavily suppressed this whole time!!
Ive always considered Beerus to be 100s of millions years old
goku:7
beerus:10
whis:15
goku:8
black frieza:9
beerus:10
whis:15
Only king kai knew his power. Thats why he was so scared and hiding goku
The problem is most of dragon ball supers villain hype in the past 5 years have been "might be as strong as beerus and the other G.O.D." so it gets fucking annoying seeing frieza hyped up as "possibly" close to beerus. Its annoying as fuck. Especially when they end up being nowhere close and beerus can do shit like sneeze their powers away.
I can't believe a video like this even needs to exist. We have never seen Beerus's full power, so I have no clue why people assume that FULL POWER beerus has been surpassed. Beerus is not a moving goalpost, fans just incorrectly assumed he had been surpassed.
I'm tired of people sucking up the "OH JIREN WAS JUST MORE EFFICIENT AT PRESERVING KI" Bruh jiren was bounds and leaps MORE POWERFUL than goku and vegeta. For instance jiren literally blocking ssj God gokus punches with just a finger that's completely everything to do with overwhelming power. Goku and vegeta got soooo many times stronger during the tournament that by the time blue goku and vegeta fights jiren during the final moments tag teaming him thers blue forms was stronger thsn the ui sighn goku that faced kale and jiren still was more powerful yall can be idiots and suck up some trash retcon when u can clearly see the difrents in power jiren was because in base jirem already surpasses a God of destruction in blue in tye beginning goku and vegeta wasn't stronger than Belmod. There just retconing because jire. IS very strong. Even after goku uses mui jiren "unlocks hidden potential (basically)POWER that was hidden in him and once again surpassed mui by beating goku in a beam struggle and sent him flying down than goku got a friendship plot boost too win jiren was easily stronger than all of them. Yall can suck up vegetas excuse for loosing all yall want
In that case I guess ssj goku wasn't actually STRONGER than frieza in the namek saga when goku turned ssj in actuality goku just "preserved his ki better"
..... yeah ok
@@BESTMOADbro whats the connect of that on the comment?
@@BESTMOAD lol you just wrote 5 paragraphs worth of yap, that has nothing to do with what said
@jantheking7028 not worth of yap? what I was saying is just facts and I'm sure you wasn't just uncontrollably laughing out loud you just think putting lol makes whatever your saying after fully concrete for instance somone could be fully mad and not laughing out loud but yet still put (your so trash lol) anyways I'm just adding on to what your saying about the Fandom just spreading around false information such as beerus was surpassed is a moving goal poast and other things like jiren was actually the same strenth as goku and vegeta from start to finish of the tournament just that he had better ki control and at the end goku had better control which is bs too
i still think this is a moving goal post... I like beerus but its like... If supersaiyan god was able to give beerus a good fight. Now blue is a 50x multiplier ontop of god then to add more insult to injury beerus shit himself when goku did blue kaioken... All that without even mentioning Ultra instinct. And it would be fine if we saw beerus continuing to self improve but he does nothing.
Even the writers had to somewhat confirm he's a moving goal post after the whole "70%" of his power was used against god goku.
beerus its so strong because goku and vegeta has like 50 years but bills, has millions of years
0:20 Nah, we should change it to " Can he beat Superman tho? " instead
Haha Clark for the W
8:24 10:52 11:25 14:20
Also if you think broly most definitley being surpassed in granolah at most since he isn’t even mentioned
So does it mean Black frieza is close to beerus or is he still weaker than all of the 12 gods ?
10 million years of exp.... You cannot have that...
honestly, I never took Goku calling Broly stronger than Beerus seriously. Goku has never actually seen Beerus at 100%, so how would he actually know that? People are taking that statement way out of context. Same thing for Supreme Kai about Vegito. Even if Shin is a god, when was the last time he actually saw Beerus go all out? I'll tell you when, it was when Beerus lied to Goku about using 100% during their battle. So Supreme Kai's statement is based off of a comparison to a lie that he only thinks was full power Beerus.
He has seen Beerus at full power in the manga
@@RevoluShane That's true, but this brings up another issue. shortly after the G.O.D. battle royale in manga Goku fights Toppo. But he tells Toppo that he can't sense his energy, just like the gods. Even after going through his transformations, Goku is still surprised at much stronger Toppo is. So when manga Goku makes the comparison between Broly and Beerus, its mostly just guess work as he can sense Broly but not Beerus. Manga Goku has a visualization of Beerus fighting, but no measurement to go by.
Goku can tell the depths of strength people have, happens multiple times throughout the series. Even if he's never seen Beerus' full power he knows what it is
@@xvoidxhunter2129 Its different for Beerus because he says he can't sense Beerus. Also, remember Goku believed it during their battle when Beerus said he was going all out, but that was a lie. Normally Goku can tell when someone is holding back, but that was an instance when he couldn't.
@@5h0ckblock I mean he couldnt sense him when he didnt have God Ki, yea. Thats just the basics of God Ki and Goku has it forever after that fight. Goku knows Beerus didnt go all out lol, he knows Beerus and Whis just saw his potential and decidwd not to blow up Earth because of that, hence why he doesnt think he can just beat Beerus as soon as he gets SSB. Makes sense anyway given it was his go round with a "whole new world" as he called it
There is no clear evidence to show that any mortal has surpass any G.O.D
Not true jiren surpassed his god and so did goku and vegeta
@@keylessdragonball1574Jiren yes.
Goku and Vegeta didnt surpass their God.
@@Chillout18-s9h they surpassed the other gods like belmod
@@keylessdragonball1574that’s only in the anime.
@@SlimShadly wrong jiren is stronger then belmod in the manga to and Goku and Vegeta surpassed the weaker gods like sedria most of the gods are not as strong as y’all love to give them credit for. Beerus is like the only god who is fr strong strong
So Beerus a God that’s atleast 75 Million years old possibly hundreds is surpassed or close to being surpassed by mortals that have haven’t even been alive for 50 years.
In the zen exhibition, i don't see why goku saying beerus is going all out is taken as straight fact
If goku hasnt seen beers full power how does he know where his limits are?
Its like in the past one character thinks the other must be going all out due to the power difference only for it to turn out they still have another form or arent even at half power
Why is it I get so checked out whenever people start talking about Beerus lmao?
Ya it definitely not goal post moving. People acting like beerus has showed all of his powers/abilities and he may also be training in secret.
Whis said if Goku and Vegeta take beerus on at the same time in their SSB form they can beat Beerus.
u misread that, whis means goku and vegetas different style of fighting combinations would confuse a person that is vastly stronger than them, eg when goku and vegeta teamed on jiren even tho jiren being the stronger fighter
Even the grand supreme Kai the fat one got a huge buff in Moro I wonder how strong you think he is as he could fight a prime more although only won due to his hax but still he contested Moro and gave buu a massive boost just by awakening his memories wonder how strong you think he is
And we also have to think beerus has to be a prodigy very little training to increase his power aka freeza like but better and I'm sure beerus train after seeing Goku and Vegeta power increases
So many things we don’t know about him
okay but like, who winning in a twerking contest, beerus or goku. i know goku has that ultra cakestinct, but beerus is the cake of destruction
Convincing
I don't know man, geekdom101 says, beerus is a moving goalpost.
If you think vegito cant beat beerus with raw power without a timer than you dont know who vegito is. People thinks he's cocky but the way he fights is js like beerus. They both fight a weaker opponent at their best and draw out more power kinda like their teaching them. Js to only show the opponent that there still stronger. On top of that vegito is on many occasions called the perfect fighter. Vegeta and goku alone are incredibly good fighters but a fusion of them who's raw power is on beerus level would beat beerus of beerus used his raw power.