The sleeping giant was near Wake island. There was a relief force which was delayed by all kinds of circumstances and Wake had been reinforced previously by Kimmel just so the Japanese had to assign a big portion of their fleet to invade Wake island and the Americans had time to intercept them with their navy from Pearl. The strategy was sound. But there were issues with refueling destroyers that protected the carriers, Kimmel was relieved of command (because of Pearl Harbor), it took some days for Nimitz to take over, admiral Pye was interim commander, they didn't know where the Kido Butai was, contradicting orders were given, etc. In the end the US fleet turned back while having closed in on Wake Island to the dismay of all present there (they knew of the plight of those on Wake island). Some even suggested to disregard the order to turn back. Samuel Eliot Morison's "The Rising Sun in the Pacific" has an entire chapter devoted to Wake island. The Americans could have scored an early victory if they had acted fast and decisively (but 20-20 and all that).
There was a naval reunion in the 80s, when someone recognized a marine from Wake Island. He called out, "Wake Island marine on deck!". Every man there, including 2 admirals came over to the marine to salute him and shake his hand. That is how respected those marines were.
In my Boot Camp schooling, the mistakes of Maj. Devareau are used as a lesson in how not to lead a battle. Situational awareness is paramount, and when he lost that he should have immediately established a system of runners to regain it.
That's something that has always baffled me. After the first hour and a half of not getting any replies from his men should have tipped him off that something was wrong with communications. I understand that America was really behind on military doctrine at the outbreak of WW2, but going 11 hours with no apparent attempts to send runners is just WTF territory.
"Hammerin Hank" the man who blew up the destroyer with a 100 pound bomb sadly was killed on December 23rd, 1941 while protecting his men who were carrying ammo to a gun emplacement. He was posthumously awarded the medal of honor.
And this is why don't question call of duty when you have segments where you're outmanned and outgunned but still complete your objectives with a small squad.
There are so many stories in WW2 of feats of just "how the hell?" that occured. - The Screaming Eagles are one of those stories where, against all odds, the Screaming Eagles fought like hell until they got reinforcements. Captain Nieves Fernandez. a Filipino during ww2, who fought for her students and young/teen girls in Tacloban. (Who were often forced (R'd) to do things for Japanese men). I mention these because of the "USA's Thermopylae" where the Screaming Eagles literally held a logistics route that the Axis was using to get supplies into France.
In regards to the bunker question At the time, there werent a lot of types of ordnance that could effectively penetrate reinforced concrete and often times the kinds of munitions that were most effective against bunkers were ones that were generally designed to blow apart compacted dirt so most couldnt get through more than a dozen or two feet into the ground and even less of reinforced concrete Dedicated penetrative ordnance didnt really start to take off until after the korean war with the advent of precision guided munitions
For some further clarification on your question/comment on the Japanese AA. The ships involved with the first attack on Wake are fairly outdated, the cruisers are early WW1 era, and the destroyers were interwar designs that lacked a dual purpose main battery. So most of these ships are relying solely on rifle calibered mg’s (8mm and 12.7mm) for AA and the ones that carried anything bigger only had the short ranged and relatively underpowered 25mm AA. I would recommend checking out the creator Drachinifel, who does some very in depth naval history content on not only the various battles, but the evolution of doctrines, tactics, overall design, and more. I would recommend his videos on the US Pacific submarine campaign (including the mark 14 torpedo) and if you want to learn about the largest surface fleet engagement he also has a few videos on the battle of Jutland in ww1.
But even the AA on their more modern ships for the time sucked, I mean in general AA was only really good as an addition to help defend air raids for fleets but Japanese aa even more modern just sucked.
Drach's videos on the pacific submarine campaign and the mark 14 torpedo are a must watch for anyone interested in the subject. He does have a video where he ranks and compares the various ww2 naval AA weapon systems which is very educational.
Yeah Japanese main AA was a real piece of junk 25mm quad mount that was a bitch to aim/load and was too weak for medium range like 40mm bofors and too slow and big for close quarters like 20mm orelikans.
Gotta remember as far as how fast the US recovered after Pearl Harbor, there were only actually two ships that were sunk there. Many damaged, but only two actually unrecoverable. So not nearly as much damage overall as people seem to think. Not saying it wasn't bad, don't get me wrong, but there was Stormtrooper energy going on there as well.
Less stormtrooper and slightly more just raw refusal to count them as destroyed. Plenty of those ships were 100% cheaper to just... scrap em for resources. They were repaired *despite* the damage being extensive because FDR refused to let that happen.
They actually mention the fact that the Japanese believed marines were recruited from prisons in the series "The Pacific" (the same creators of Band of Brothers but the Pacific theater). Whether they actually believed that or it was just the propaganda machine giving an excuse to their military failure mixed with Japanese pride is unknown. My bet is on propaganda and pride
It was definitely propaganda, how much they believed it is hard to say. It was part of the strategy to prevent their own troops surrendering as they claimed the Americans tortured and murdered all their prisoners despite us being one of the most humane countries for POWs in the war. Some captured Japanese soldiers who attempted to end their own life upon capture said they were legitimately afraid that the marines would torture them to death. It also helped relieve the guilt that Japanese POW camp guards would feel toward their own treatment of American captives.
At the beginning, when he was talking about Marines being prisoners... I LOLed pretty good. As a former Marine myself, it definitely takes a........ unique individual to make it within their ranks. Why do you think I only served 4 years!
@TowGunner Jesus Christ... I get this whenever I say it. I served in the Marine Corps from 1999 - 2003. When I was in, you only referred to Marines that no longer serve as Former Marine. You never used ex-Marine. If something has changed in the 21 years I've been out, I haven't been informed about it, and I'm tired of rehashing it to everyone else that pops this comment up under my comments. Again, between 1999 and 2003, the correct nomenclature was "Former Marine." If it has changed in the time between then and now, I have no clue about it.
@@Strathaczar What many don't get is that when Marines write "former Marine" is that it really means "Former Active Duty Marine", or maybe even "Former Reserve Marine" or "Former "Inactive Duty Marine." So, in essence, those who highlight this are essentially grammar Nazi, and probably should be ignored. Unless they are a "Former Active Duty Marine" who is also a grammar Nazi, which is a special category all its own. And I do mean "special" in that meaning we all know, wink wink.
I was at an event where Her Majesty's Black Watch, Pipes and Drums were performing. At one point during their repertoire they began to play The Marine Corp Hymn, "From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli" I have never seen such an astounding sight as suddenly hundreds of men stood up at attention as the pipers piped and the drummers belted and rang that hymn to the rafters of the arena... They were young and old and I then and there understood there is no such thing as a former Marine. Thank you for your service
There is a sad moment on Wake Island when the 98 remaining POWs on the island were rounded up and were subsequently executed. One person however escapes and so the Japanese went on a man-hunt to find the survivor. Thst person was caught and it's unknown who that person was. However, before being caught, that unknown person carved out a message on a large coral rock which reads: 98 US PW 5-10-43
I just wanted to let you know that my dad was drafted in 1969. He told me that when he was first drafted he and the other draftees had to stand next to each other and count off one to ten. Every tenth man was forced into the marine corp. he said “those guys got screwed”. Just thought you’d be interested to hear that. Side note, my dad’s older brother joined the marines in 1967. Their father was in the navy in WW2 and was pissed when he found out my uncle joined the marines and yelled at him all day “the navy guys are going to live the high life while you’re pinned down by mortar fire in the jungle”. And that’s exactly what happened. He came back from his tour and told my dad to never go to Vietnam no matter what. Do whatever you have to to stay out of that war. My dad got lucky and was stationed in the U.S.
The Japanese leadership actually encouraged the use of soldiers putting flags on their rifles as it helped the Japanese officers watch how the battle was developing, keeping track of exactly where their assault line was.
Great reaction as always! You missed a clip of the older marines getting asked the question about the movie that TFE had mentioned at the end of the video.
He always skips a bit of the video so that you have to watch the original to see all of it. It's a thing good reactors do to make sure they aren't leeching views off content creators.
All good totally understand. I also know that a lot of people miss the end of video things without that intention cause they see the merch/closing part and think thats it.
What kills me about Wake Island. They were given 2 hour heads up. Still able to fight. Yet Philippines was given a 10 hour heads up. All aircraft were caught and destroyed on the ground.
Granted the Philippines were facing a task force with an aircraft carrier and Wake was not. I'm also certain that the attackers weren't harmlessly approaching within range of artillery like wake.
I read that in the philippines US planes Were actually fueled and loaded up with bombs And they were waiting for the fog to lift and got caught eating lunch
There is no evidence that Isoroku Yamamoto ever said the "sleeping giant" quote. It appears that it was created by the screenwriter for the movie "Tora Tora Tora."
There's nothing saying he didn't. There is an account of someone seeing a letter Isoroku Yamamoto sent to Tokyo with that quote adopted from Napolean's quote. Yamamoto believed that Japan could not win a war with the United States, later thoughts where that Pearl Harbor had been a mistake, even though it was his idea. While everyone was celebrating, Yamamoto spent the day after Pearl Harbor "sunk in apparent depression". Yamamoto was upset they chose to do this while the countries were still at peace, an unprovoked surprise attack that enraged American public opinion.
That film clip shows 50 cal tracers going amidships, into the torpedo mount area, not aft, where the depth charge racks are. May not be the destroyer in question, but a good example.
Mr. Terry I think on behalf of all of your Veteran Subscribers we have got to work on your salute sir lol. Gotta get that thing lookin proper! lol love the videos as always sir.
@@hernanmontes422 indeed, a good strong form on the salute will also help develop the ultimate weapon for anyone in a teaching capacity as well.... the legendary KNIFE HAND!
11:21 One thing to remember is that Pearl Harbor was preparing for sabotage NOT a full on attack. Most planes out on the runways to protect against said sabotage, and most AA guns weren’t being manned to ensure security around the ground defenses… Plus most people didn’t think Japan would be brazen enough to strike directly.
Depends on what aircraft and which bombs... if they were dropping the assortment 60-250kg HE bombs typical for land bombing that'd probably work, heck just some sandbag walls would protect anything but a direct hit, if they bring the 1600lb armor piercing bombs... nah... but those were usually saved for naval targets
It also depends on how the bomb was fuzed. If it's fuzed for air burst it's not going to be effective against a bunker. When you are arming a bomb you can set when you want the bomb to detonate. If you are bombing bunkers you want to set a delay (usually about 8-10 seconds) to give the bomb time to penatrate the ground. Also you want to use a heavier bomb. The modern military generally uses the Mk84 2000lb bomb as a "bunker buster".
20:31 Wasn't it 1929 stuff that went into the public domain this year? So with the movie coming out in 1942, it shuld be about 13 years (2037) to go for that movie to be public domain? That is if it isn't already in the public domain.
The USS No Go is a good example of a bunker that even the American bombs couldn't penetrate, tho I'm sure the concrete wouldn't have to be near that thick to stop the bombs of that time tho
Regarding bunkers - yes, you can build a bunker that can protect you from any given bomb, but that gets more and more expensive and time consuming, the larger and more penetrating the bombs get. It's a question of how much dirt and concrete is over you vs how much the enemy is dropping on you. 80%-90% of what you would have had to deal with in WW2 was near misses - things that would kill you on the surface by being close enough, but not actually hitting your bunker because accuracy was rare in WW2 (Germany, UK and US did have smart bombs by the end of the war, but they weren't that smart and they were still being tested when it ended). There were "bunker busters" which were intentionally meant to destroy bunkers, but they were generally big and slow, intentionally using their mass to burrow into the ground before exploding so as to destroy bunkers near their detonation point. So naval launched aircraft generally weren't carrying them and your first several waves before the anti-aircraft guns were taken out certainly weren't carrying them. Since a bunker that's finished and fits everyone is better than a bunker that's not finished or doesn't fit everyone, the strategy in building them is usually to build just enough to be generally effective but not to worry about precise hits or bunker busters. So they were effective up to a point. Cheyenne Mountain is a famous example of the extreme. It can theoretically withstand direct nuclear strikes and thermobarics like MOAB, and it can definitely withstand classic "bunker buster" type bombardment. I'm sure there are people in China and Russia who have ideas on how to get past even that, but on both sides of that equation the cost and time is very high.
It's worth adding - the "Bushido code" being followed by the Japanese in WW2 was entirely a fabrication made to create an ideal among their people in preparation for their colonialist ambitions. In the decades after the Meiji restoration, a militaristic shift occurred, leading up to the Imperial Rescript to Soldiers and Sailors of 1882 that began this new idea of Bushido as a debt every Japanese citizen owed to the nation for having been born there that grew to include the extremes we see in WW2. Ironically, it also included a lack of honor on the other side of the fence - there were minimal punishments for the military who killed officials like Prime Minister Inukai or who defied orders to pursue military glory at the cost of the larger war effort in Manchuria. And that inversion lead to a lot of what we saw in WW2. I am curious what would have happened if the radio hadn't been taken out and Cunningham knew they were winning. Obviously, without resupply coming, they would eventually run out of ammunition and supplies, but the atrition rate for Japan there was terrible relative to what they were expecting to get out of it, and they were increasingly over-investing in the island. Realistically they only needed to take out the air capabilities of the island and keep resupply away, but they were focused on taking the island. If they had kept it up, I wonder if it would have changed some of the more costly battles that followed and lead to the Japanese being caught even more unprepared when the American counterattack began in earnest.
your question on the bomb ordinance vs bunkers was answered earlier. 1 other thing is placement. vital areas would have been protected more by reinforced materials, dirt that would absorb shock and minimize damage and so on. Concealment also played a part. You wouldnt think you would conceal naval shore guns but apparently the Marines did. Also after the 1st attack repositioning would undoubtedly have taken place. So if you will in a manner of speaking it was like trying to hit a moving target. Maj. Devareau totally dropped the ball after losing comms with his men, a Navy Cmdr actually sent a famous message to his superiors (not on the Island) "Enemy on land - Issue in doubt". Now this is a personal opinion - I believe as far as holding the island on the 2nd attack. The Marines would have won but eventually a war of attrition (siege) would have eventually won the day for the Japanese. Yes it would have and was embarrassing for the Japanese but given the time frame and America needing time to really get back on its feet. The island would have been taken (eventually). Granted there were timetables and plans and various strategies to use the island. The outcome would have been the same for the Japanese. For the Marines on the island it would have been hard but there would have been a better chance to hold and hope for reinforcement. As it was the Marines and construction workers held out for 2 + weeks against incredible odds. Being that the shore guns were off the old USS Texas and me being from Texas. I associate this stand with the Alamo.
For the record, we sent three aircraft carriers to try to help Wake Island. One of them, USS Saratoga was torpedoed. By the time the other two were in position to do anything, Japan had already landed on the island. We decided not to risk our remaining two carriers for a lost cause. The Communists were not more effective than the nationalists. They had better PR. The nationalist did most of the fighting and many areas would defeat the Japanese at heavy costs and then have to pull virtually all their forces into another campaign The Communists would then take the town from the Nationalists and claimed that they defeated the Japanese.
The idea thatthe marines were recruited form prison and insane asylims was actually written by a Japanese commander after having fought against them on several islands.
To give light on the 'safety in bunker from bomb', a grenade has a kill radius of 5 meters. 15 meters for wounding. So I would say if the bomb drops on your bunker, you're a goner. Might be safe if it drops over 50 meters away depending on the bomb of course. -USMC 2013-2019 rah, love the vids keep it up!!
The movie is pretty good actually as in entertaining. However, I would absolutely love to see a modern historical perspective. A 2005 movie called Wake Island: Alamo in the Pacific. I would’ve cast of Bruce Willis as Devereaux and Tom Harding who was a relative no-name at the time, just finished with Band of Brothers would’ve played “Hammering” Hank. Cause that’s my movie. It was made now. I have no clue how to cast it. The one detail I absolutely would’ve included. Would be the proposed mutiny the Marines were planning on the relieve force when they were told they where to turn back.
Japanese AA guns were very notorious for being badly ranged on their air targets they hardly got many kills from there AA guns because of this, and you guy's knew this very well it was only when they were in a massive fleet that the overwhelming firepower would cause deaths and damage to American planes.
@MrTerry I hope you see this video sir. I do not know how old you are, and I'm pretty sure my politics would not agree with yours, but I love that you keep your politics out of videos. I am 43 and dying of liver cancer and cirrhosis. But I just wanted to say your channel is one of the most entertaining ones I have ever seen, and I wish I had more teachers like you when I was younger. God bless you and yours!
I'm sorry, Mr. Terry, but I think you may have misspelled "Thermopylae" in your thumbnail? Is that something you can still alter after the video gets uploaded?
To be fair. For pearl harbor being a suprise attack. They did a horrible job. A horre dously high miss rate, poor target aquisition and targetting a ship that was nkt even om the list to be attacked
50 aircraft out of 100...that's hardly every aircraft...Hiryu and Soryu were equipped with 63 standard load, - losses at Pearl. They still fielded over 100 at this time.
After how long at sea? And after engaging in how many missions and flight hours ....the odds of launching ALL aircraft is Slim for any mission while I agree 50 is an oddly specific and possibly not correct number....but it is quite possibly not that far off.
I've read that during the years before the war when wake was used as a Pan-American clipper stop it was so boring that Pan American literally had pellet guns you could rent and shoot the rats on the island
The samurai comparison is quite apt. While I cannot attest to how much is historical and how much is propaganda and/or artistic license, samurai were commonly depicted as charging into combat with ancestral banners strapped to their backs - depictions ranging from (supposedly) Edo-era woodblocks to contemporary anime.
My dad was a Marine during 'Nam. When he met my mom, he was carrying a sawed off in his car because the gangs were starting shit in his area of downtown Akron, OH. Yeah, I can see where the Japanese got the idea from. 😅
Thank you for your excellent work; great video. I love your military history shows, you do a much better job of avoiding your political bias when talking about military history. Keep up the great work. 👍
So i don't know any actual numbers for this but the bunkers back then, I BELIEVE (please correct me respectfully if I'm wrong, i like to learn), that at the time the bunkers could be approximately 15-20 ft underground until bunker busters come into play, in which case i belive that the number is >60 ft underground. Again, i may not know or remember the correct numbers.
50's are a LOT more effective than he thinks. B-25 gun ships with 12 each, ripped up transports and destroyers in the Bismark sea, 1943. They probably started a LOT of leaks. P 47 Thunderbolts were to gain fame as tankbusters in 1944 with 8. these Wildcats had 6..not far behind. Remember destroyers are nicknamed "Tin Cans" for a reason. Little to no armor. Also: I don't think Hammerin' hank hit the depth charges. I think he hit the torpedo racks. Long Lance torpedoes were oxygen powered.and the ships had an oxygen generating plant on board. BIG boom.
Depends on the bunker... if they had steel reinforced concrete bunkers on wake Island than the Marines only issue was Ammo, if they were just make shift basically wooden reinforced Mines built on wake Island than the issue becomes if the opening to the bunkers were hit or not. the Materials used would be a factor cause no one but the Germans could do what America could pull off if America Applied what they could do at a given location. My belief not really digging into what they actually did is they sailed the retired USS Texas to Wake Island and they made a base on the Island by scrapping her and repurposing everything on the Ship to make the Base.
Sad u didnt react to a bunch of the jokes, sad u dont finish the video to the end of the playbar. Really enjoy the additional history context you add tho. Id highly recommend all the fat electrician videos, along with his second channel the fat files. The aldis video is probably the best start.
One small error. The communist didn’t engage in many battles during world war 2. The nationals did the bulk of the fighting. After the war the communists were at full strength and were able to overrun the nationals. Mao sent a letter to Japan in the 70s thanking them because otherwise they never would have been able to win against the nationals if they weren’t weakened by them
Are Marines really a better "amphibious fighting force" than the Navy Seals? Or, have the Seals surpassed them since then? I thought that the Seals are specifically trained for amphibious warfare. Am I way off on this?
I would also add that 550 Japanese were killed in the Battle of Wake Island, of which 350 were destroyer crews. That is, 200 of them died during the landing. Let's face it, it was no Thermopylae and there was no great battle there. Just a bit of luck and the sinking of two obsolete destroyers.
Re: The communists winning in China because their troops gained experience in WW2, I thought at least part of the reason was that they let the nationalists take the brunt of the fighting against the Japanese, but I'm not completely sure, I think its something that I only heard relatively recently.
So Mao and Chiang. First, Mao's communists won because of the support of the people. Pretty obvious Chiang didn't care. First there was the "last stand" in the warehouse in Shanghai which he sacrificed his best men to put on a show for the foreigners living in the international quarter across the river to try to garner international support. When they died, Japan steamrolled their way to Nanjing, the capitol. Chiang had already left town went to Chongqing with international military generals. He left his army to defend Nanjing, but when Japan dropped leaflets on the city warning civilians to flee, the army told everyone it's going to be fine before turning tail and running away in the middle of the night. So it's pretty easy to see why the people supported Mao instead of Chiang. Chiang was a wealthy noble married to the one of the infamous Soong sisters that controlled the Shanghai business world, so he would have been seen as the 1% that doesn't give a shit about the common Chinese citizen. To make matters worse for the nationalists, when the Japanese first moved into China, the communists sided with the factory workers in Shanghai to strike against the companies that were supplying the Japanese military. As for Mao and Chiang uniting against a common enemy? HAHAHA! We tried to get them to do it. We even forced them to hold a meeting together in person to put aside their differences and unite against a common enemy. Those 2 could barely keep it together. Communists always did their own thing in the "United Front" against the Japanese. If the war hadn't ended when it did, I've read the American officials in Chongqing were considering switching allegiances to Mao because Chiang was incompetent. But, then FDR died, anti-communist president took office, and the war ended.
World War II? China built up artificial islands in the South China Sea, often in the territorial waters of other countries. At least two of these have been turned from sea mounts barely breaching the water to being large enough to have runways for transports and fighter jets, large radar stations, long-range surface to air missiles, long range anti-ship missiles, close in weapon systems, and a detachment of Chinese Marines or army. Let's just hope these don't become important in World War 3
This was the straw that broke the camel's back. The reason that the SEABEES were created yes i am retired navy SEABEE you might want to look up an OLD movie called the. THE FIGHTING SEABEES it is a John Wayne movie
The more Fat Electrician I watch, the worse the bruise on my forehead gets from facepalming so hard after every time he talks about some Military/Gov higher up screws something up, vindictively holds back, steals credit, just outright ignores the right thing to do. I know it's typical. But it still irks.
Kind of easy to get an inflated ego or sense of invincibility when you fight against those who either aren't ready to fight, or didn't arm themselves for a fight.
in hindsight, we fucked up. god bless America. if you think Taiwan is currently worse off than the mainland, i have some beachfront property in Kansas to sell you
Like this comment to awake a sleeping giant.
Will do, sir! 🫡
Done.
Will he be filled with terrible resolve?
Pls do a video on the fat electricians video on the war horse from Vietnam it's hilarious
The sleeping giant was near Wake island. There was a relief force which was delayed by all kinds of circumstances and Wake had been reinforced previously by Kimmel just so the Japanese had to assign a big portion of their fleet to invade Wake island and the Americans had time to intercept them with their navy from Pearl. The strategy was sound.
But there were issues with refueling destroyers that protected the carriers, Kimmel was relieved of command (because of Pearl Harbor), it took some days for Nimitz to take over, admiral Pye was interim commander, they didn't know where the Kido Butai was, contradicting orders were given, etc.
In the end the US fleet turned back while having closed in on Wake Island to the dismay of all present there (they knew of the plight of those on Wake island). Some even suggested to disregard the order to turn back.
Samuel Eliot Morison's "The Rising Sun in the Pacific" has an entire chapter devoted to Wake island. The Americans could have scored an early victory if they had acted fast and decisively (but 20-20 and all that).
There was a naval reunion in the 80s, when someone recognized a marine from Wake Island. He called out, "Wake Island marine on deck!". Every man there, including 2 admirals came over to the marine to salute him and shake his hand. That is how respected those marines were.
I got goosebumps just reading this. I can't imagine seeing this in person without a downpour of tears. Thanks for letting people know about this.
In my Boot Camp schooling, the mistakes of Maj. Devareau are used as a lesson in how not to lead a battle. Situational awareness is paramount, and when he lost that he should have immediately established a system of runners to regain it.
That's something that has always baffled me. After the first hour and a half of not getting any replies from his men should have tipped him off that something was wrong with communications. I understand that America was really behind on military doctrine at the outbreak of WW2, but going 11 hours with no apparent attempts to send runners is just WTF territory.
@@azurblueknightsprobably skipped military training and drank whine and scream cheese on crackers
"Hammerin Hank" the man who blew up the destroyer with a 100 pound bomb sadly was killed on December 23rd, 1941 while protecting his men who were carrying ammo to a gun emplacement. He was posthumously awarded the medal of honor.
And this is why don't question call of duty when you have segments where you're outmanned and outgunned but still complete your objectives with a small squad.
@user-fg2is4lw9v So you're telling me that when I throw banana peels out my window, the vehicle behind me isn't going to skid back and forth? Aw man.
There are so many stories in WW2 of feats of just "how the hell?" that occured. - The Screaming Eagles are one of those stories where, against all odds, the Screaming Eagles fought like hell until they got reinforcements.
Captain Nieves Fernandez. a Filipino during ww2, who fought for her students and young/teen girls in Tacloban. (Who were often forced (R'd) to do things for Japanese men).
I mention these because of the "USA's Thermopylae" where the Screaming Eagles literally held a logistics route that the Axis was using to get supplies into France.
In regards to the bunker question
At the time, there werent a lot of types of ordnance that could effectively penetrate reinforced concrete and often times the kinds of munitions that were most effective against bunkers were ones that were generally designed to blow apart compacted dirt so most couldnt get through more than a dozen or two feet into the ground and even less of reinforced concrete
Dedicated penetrative ordnance didnt really start to take off until after the korean war with the advent of precision guided munitions
For some further clarification on your question/comment on the Japanese AA. The ships involved with the first attack on Wake are fairly outdated, the cruisers are early WW1 era, and the destroyers were interwar designs that lacked a dual purpose main battery. So most of these ships are relying solely on rifle calibered mg’s (8mm and 12.7mm) for AA and the ones that carried anything bigger only had the short ranged and relatively underpowered 25mm AA.
I would recommend checking out the creator Drachinifel, who does some very in depth naval history content on not only the various battles, but the evolution of doctrines, tactics, overall design, and more. I would recommend his videos on the US Pacific submarine campaign (including the mark 14 torpedo) and if you want to learn about the largest surface fleet engagement he also has a few videos on the battle of Jutland in ww1.
But even the AA on their more modern ships for the time sucked, I mean in general AA was only really good as an addition to help defend air raids for fleets but Japanese aa even more modern just sucked.
Drach's videos on the pacific submarine campaign and the mark 14 torpedo are a must watch for anyone interested in the subject. He does have a video where he ranks and compares the various ww2 naval AA weapon systems which is very educational.
Yeah Japanese main AA was a real piece of junk 25mm quad mount that was a bitch to aim/load and was too weak for medium range like 40mm bofors and too slow and big for close quarters like 20mm orelikans.
I believe in the dictionary, this whole scenario is under the definition of "f*** around and find out"
Of course you should keep the carpet - it really ties the room together!
Gotta remember as far as how fast the US recovered after Pearl Harbor, there were only actually two ships that were sunk there. Many damaged, but only two actually unrecoverable. So not nearly as much damage overall as people seem to think. Not saying it wasn't bad, don't get me wrong, but there was Stormtrooper energy going on there as well.
I think there was a 60ish% miss rate with torpedos. Not to mention the two battleships sunken where low on the target priority list
Less stormtrooper and slightly more just raw refusal to count them as destroyed. Plenty of those ships were 100% cheaper to just... scrap em for resources. They were repaired *despite* the damage being extensive because FDR refused to let that happen.
They actually mention the fact that the Japanese believed marines were recruited from prisons in the series "The Pacific" (the same creators of Band of Brothers but the Pacific theater). Whether they actually believed that or it was just the propaganda machine giving an excuse to their military failure mixed with Japanese pride is unknown. My bet is on propaganda and pride
It was definitely propaganda, how much they believed it is hard to say. It was part of the strategy to prevent their own troops surrendering as they claimed the Americans tortured and murdered all their prisoners despite us being one of the most humane countries for POWs in the war. Some captured Japanese soldiers who attempted to end their own life upon capture said they were legitimately afraid that the marines would torture them to death. It also helped relieve the guilt that Japanese POW camp guards would feel toward their own treatment of American captives.
At the beginning, when he was talking about Marines being prisoners... I LOLed pretty good. As a former Marine myself, it definitely takes a........ unique individual to make it within their ranks. Why do you think I only served 4 years!
Former?
@TowGunner Jesus Christ... I get this whenever I say it. I served in the Marine Corps from 1999 - 2003. When I was in, you only referred to Marines that no longer serve as Former Marine. You never used ex-Marine. If something has changed in the 21 years I've been out, I haven't been informed about it, and I'm tired of rehashing it to everyone else that pops this comment up under my comments.
Again, between 1999 and 2003, the correct nomenclature was "Former Marine." If it has changed in the time between then and now, I have no clue about it.
@@Strathaczar What many don't get is that when Marines write "former Marine" is that it really means "Former Active Duty Marine", or maybe even "Former Reserve Marine" or "Former "Inactive Duty Marine." So, in essence, those who highlight this are essentially grammar Nazi, and probably should be ignored. Unless they are a "Former Active Duty Marine" who is also a grammar Nazi, which is a special category all its own. And I do mean "special" in that meaning we all know, wink wink.
I was at an event where Her Majesty's Black Watch, Pipes and Drums were performing. At one point during their repertoire they began to play The Marine Corp Hymn, "From the Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli"
I have never seen such an astounding sight as suddenly hundreds of men stood up at attention as the pipers piped and the drummers belted and rang that hymn to the rafters of the arena...
They were young and old and I then and there understood there is no such thing as a former Marine. Thank you for your service
There is a sad moment on Wake Island when the 98 remaining POWs on the island were rounded up and were subsequently executed. One person however escapes and so the Japanese went on a man-hunt to find the survivor. Thst person was caught and it's unknown who that person was. However, before being caught, that unknown person carved out a message on a large coral rock which reads:
98 US PW 5-10-43
"Just Dont Mess With American Boats"
Just don't do it
everytime, that i can think of, well, ya, america struck back and it wasn't good for them@@chaost4544
Love the Fat Electrician.
You should react videos to his military job and weapon reviews too. Some of those are insane
I just wanted to let you know that my dad was drafted in 1969. He told me that when he was first drafted he and the other draftees had to stand next to each other and count off one to ten. Every tenth man was forced into the marine corp. he said “those guys got screwed”. Just thought you’d be interested to hear that. Side note, my dad’s older brother joined the marines in 1967. Their father was in the navy in WW2 and was pissed when he found out my uncle joined the marines and yelled at him all day “the navy guys are going to live the high life while you’re pinned down by mortar fire in the jungle”. And that’s exactly what happened. He came back from his tour and told my dad to never go to Vietnam no matter what. Do whatever you have to to stay out of that war. My dad got lucky and was stationed in the U.S.
The Japanese leadership actually encouraged the use of soldiers putting flags on their rifles as it helped the Japanese officers watch how the battle was developing, keeping track of exactly where their assault line was.
Great reaction as always! You missed a clip of the older marines getting asked the question about the movie that TFE had mentioned at the end of the video.
He always skips a bit of the video so that you have to watch the original to see all of it. It's a thing good reactors do to make sure they aren't leeching views off content creators.
All good totally understand. I also know that a lot of people miss the end of video things without that intention cause they see the merch/closing part and think thats it.
What kills me about Wake Island. They were given 2 hour heads up. Still able to fight. Yet Philippines was given a 10 hour heads up. All aircraft were caught and destroyed on the ground.
Granted the Philippines were facing a task force with an aircraft carrier and Wake was not. I'm also certain that the attackers weren't harmlessly approaching within range of artillery like wake.
Philippines defense was botched by bad leadership planning straight up.
I read that in the philippines US planes Were actually fueled and loaded up with bombs And they were waiting for the fog to lift and got caught eating lunch
Just to let you know, it is your knowledge of almost everything that makes your channel the best.
There is no evidence that Isoroku Yamamoto ever said the "sleeping giant" quote. It appears that it was created by the screenwriter for the movie "Tora Tora Tora."
There's nothing saying he didn't. There is an account of someone seeing a letter Isoroku Yamamoto sent to Tokyo with that quote adopted from Napolean's quote. Yamamoto believed that Japan could not win a war with the United States, later thoughts where that Pearl Harbor had been a mistake, even though it was his idea. While everyone was celebrating, Yamamoto spent the day after Pearl Harbor "sunk in apparent depression". Yamamoto was upset they chose to do this while the countries were still at peace, an unprovoked surprise attack that enraged American public opinion.
That film clip shows 50 cal tracers going amidships, into the torpedo mount area, not aft, where the depth charge racks are. May not be the destroyer in question, but a good example.
I just got done watching his video on Ramage! And now, here I am! And yes, I DID discover him through your channel!
Mr. Terry I think on behalf of all of your Veteran Subscribers we have got to work on your salute sir lol. Gotta get that thing lookin proper! lol love the videos as always sir.
Agreed. Tuck that thumb in and adjust the angle. 🫡
@@hernanmontes422 indeed, a good strong form on the salute will also help develop the ultimate weapon for anyone in a teaching capacity as well.... the legendary KNIFE HAND!
11:21 One thing to remember is that Pearl Harbor was preparing for sabotage NOT a full on attack. Most planes out on the runways to protect against said sabotage, and most AA guns weren’t being manned to ensure security around the ground defenses…
Plus most people didn’t think Japan would be brazen enough to strike directly.
@MrTerry the bunker would have to be at least 6-10 feet deep for the time
Depends on what aircraft and which bombs... if they were dropping the assortment 60-250kg HE bombs typical for land bombing that'd probably work, heck just some sandbag walls would protect anything but a direct hit, if they bring the 1600lb armor piercing bombs... nah... but those were usually saved for naval targets
It also depends on how the bomb was fuzed. If it's fuzed for air burst it's not going to be effective against a bunker. When you are arming a bomb you can set when you want the bomb to detonate. If you are bombing bunkers you want to set a delay (usually about 8-10 seconds) to give the bomb time to penatrate the ground. Also you want to use a heavier bomb. The modern military generally uses the Mk84 2000lb bomb as a "bunker buster".
20:31
Wasn't it 1929 stuff that went into the public domain this year?
So with the movie coming out in 1942, it shuld be about 13 years (2037) to go for that movie to be public domain? That is if it isn't already in the public domain.
The USS No Go is a good example of a bunker that even the American bombs couldn't penetrate, tho I'm sure the concrete wouldn't have to be near that thick to stop the bombs of that time tho
Regarding bunkers - yes, you can build a bunker that can protect you from any given bomb, but that gets more and more expensive and time consuming, the larger and more penetrating the bombs get. It's a question of how much dirt and concrete is over you vs how much the enemy is dropping on you. 80%-90% of what you would have had to deal with in WW2 was near misses - things that would kill you on the surface by being close enough, but not actually hitting your bunker because accuracy was rare in WW2 (Germany, UK and US did have smart bombs by the end of the war, but they weren't that smart and they were still being tested when it ended). There were "bunker busters" which were intentionally meant to destroy bunkers, but they were generally big and slow, intentionally using their mass to burrow into the ground before exploding so as to destroy bunkers near their detonation point. So naval launched aircraft generally weren't carrying them and your first several waves before the anti-aircraft guns were taken out certainly weren't carrying them. Since a bunker that's finished and fits everyone is better than a bunker that's not finished or doesn't fit everyone, the strategy in building them is usually to build just enough to be generally effective but not to worry about precise hits or bunker busters. So they were effective up to a point.
Cheyenne Mountain is a famous example of the extreme. It can theoretically withstand direct nuclear strikes and thermobarics like MOAB, and it can definitely withstand classic "bunker buster" type bombardment. I'm sure there are people in China and Russia who have ideas on how to get past even that, but on both sides of that equation the cost and time is very high.
It's worth adding - the "Bushido code" being followed by the Japanese in WW2 was entirely a fabrication made to create an ideal among their people in preparation for their colonialist ambitions. In the decades after the Meiji restoration, a militaristic shift occurred, leading up to the Imperial Rescript to Soldiers and Sailors of 1882 that began this new idea of Bushido as a debt every Japanese citizen owed to the nation for having been born there that grew to include the extremes we see in WW2. Ironically, it also included a lack of honor on the other side of the fence - there were minimal punishments for the military who killed officials like Prime Minister Inukai or who defied orders to pursue military glory at the cost of the larger war effort in Manchuria. And that inversion lead to a lot of what we saw in WW2.
I am curious what would have happened if the radio hadn't been taken out and Cunningham knew they were winning. Obviously, without resupply coming, they would eventually run out of ammunition and supplies, but the atrition rate for Japan there was terrible relative to what they were expecting to get out of it, and they were increasingly over-investing in the island. Realistically they only needed to take out the air capabilities of the island and keep resupply away, but they were focused on taking the island. If they had kept it up, I wonder if it would have changed some of the more costly battles that followed and lead to the Japanese being caught even more unprepared when the American counterattack began in earnest.
This is a perfect example of history repeating itself
Please watch to the very end of Nick’s (Fat Electrician’s) videos. He has recently started to add things right at the very end. Usually very funny.
Thanks for the heads up!
Yea, he left out the wake reunion vets comment. Nic is a great story teller but Terry cut primary source material out.
your question on the bomb ordinance vs bunkers was answered earlier. 1 other thing is placement. vital areas would have been protected more by reinforced materials, dirt that would absorb shock and minimize damage and so on. Concealment also played a part. You wouldnt think you would conceal naval shore guns but apparently the Marines did. Also after the 1st attack repositioning would undoubtedly have taken place. So if you will in a manner of speaking it was like trying to hit a moving target. Maj. Devareau totally dropped the ball after losing comms with his men, a Navy Cmdr actually sent a famous message to his superiors (not on the Island) "Enemy on land - Issue in doubt". Now this is a personal opinion - I believe as far as holding the island on the 2nd attack. The Marines would have won but eventually a war of attrition (siege) would have eventually won the day for the Japanese. Yes it would have and was embarrassing for the Japanese but given the time frame and America needing time to really get back on its feet. The island would have been taken (eventually). Granted there were timetables and plans and various strategies to use the island. The outcome would have been the same for the Japanese. For the Marines on the island it would have been hard but there would have been a better chance to hold and hope for reinforcement. As it was the Marines and construction workers held out for 2 + weeks against incredible odds. Being that the shore guns were off the old USS Texas and me being from Texas. I associate this stand with the Alamo.
For the record, we sent three aircraft carriers to try to help Wake Island. One of them, USS Saratoga was torpedoed. By the time the other two were in position to do anything, Japan had already landed on the island. We decided not to risk our remaining two carriers for a lost cause.
The Communists were not more effective than the nationalists. They had better PR. The nationalist did most of the fighting and many areas would defeat the Japanese at heavy costs and then have to pull virtually all their forces into another campaign The Communists would then take the town from the Nationalists and claimed that they defeated the Japanese.
The idea thatthe marines were recruited form prison and insane asylims was actually written by a Japanese commander after having fought against them on several islands.
Mr Terry don;t feel bad for not adding to the video, freaking loves this stuff
Deveraux wanted them into 3 " range, about 6,000 yards [3 miles +/-] to take on the transports.
Nick is back in college getting his history degree and schooling melinialls 1:04
To give light on the 'safety in bunker from bomb', a grenade has a kill radius of 5 meters. 15 meters for wounding. So I would say if the bomb drops on your bunker, you're a goner. Might be safe if it drops over 50 meters away depending on the bomb of course.
-USMC 2013-2019 rah, love the vids keep it up!!
18:50 seems like an expression of a man who's thinking "can we talk about Japanese war crimes please?"
The movie is pretty good actually as in entertaining. However, I would absolutely love to see a modern historical perspective. A 2005 movie called Wake Island: Alamo in the Pacific. I would’ve cast of Bruce Willis as Devereaux and Tom Harding who was a relative no-name at the time, just finished with Band of Brothers would’ve played “Hammering” Hank. Cause that’s my movie. It was made now. I have no clue how to cast it. The one detail I absolutely would’ve included. Would be the proposed mutiny the Marines were planning on the relieve force when they were told they where to turn back.
Japanese AA guns were very notorious for being badly ranged on their air targets they hardly got many kills from there AA guns because of this, and you guy's knew this very well it was only when they were in a massive fleet that the overwhelming firepower would cause deaths and damage to American planes.
Where did you get that helmet at a Soviet garage sale?
@MrTerry I hope you see this video sir. I do not know how old you are, and I'm pretty sure my politics would not agree with yours, but I love that you keep your politics out of videos. I am 43 and dying of liver cancer and cirrhosis. But I just wanted to say your channel is one of the most entertaining ones I have ever seen, and I wish I had more teachers like you when I was younger. God bless you and yours!
I'm sorry, Mr. Terry, but I think you may have misspelled "Thermopylae" in your thumbnail? Is that something you can still alter after the video gets uploaded?
Seen videos go through 3 different thumbnails in a single day, so yes.
To be fair. For pearl harbor being a suprise attack. They did a horrible job. A horre dously high miss rate, poor target aquisition and targetting a ship that was nkt even om the list to be attacked
"America is 50 War tribes in a trench coat with a defense budget big enough to fight GOD." HabitualLinecrosser
Is that helmet comfortable? I've been wondering for awhile.
Those are "Brain buckets." Highly fashionable, but only comfortable if you install a custom liner. Real mean don't use liners though.
Battle of Shanghai was a fun time. No one has ever come up w a real # of how many dead there actually were
50 aircraft out of 100...that's hardly every aircraft...Hiryu and Soryu were equipped with 63 standard load, - losses at Pearl. They still fielded over 100 at this time.
After how long at sea? And after engaging in how many missions and flight hours ....the odds of launching ALL aircraft is Slim for any mission while I agree 50 is an oddly specific and possibly not correct number....but it is quite possibly not that far off.
I've read that during the years before the war when wake was used as a Pan-American clipper stop it was so boring that Pan American literally had pellet guns you could rent and shoot the rats on the island
Actually back then if you got in trouble and went to court you could have our sentence waived if you joined the military
The samurai comparison is quite apt. While I cannot attest to how much is historical and how much is propaganda and/or artistic license, samurai were commonly depicted as charging into combat with ancestral banners strapped to their backs - depictions ranging from (supposedly) Edo-era woodblocks to contemporary anime.
You paused and missed one of his jokes.
"It didn't make sense. Now, it makes dollars."
My dad was a Marine during 'Nam. When he met my mom, he was carrying a sawed off in his car because the gangs were starting shit in his area of downtown Akron, OH. Yeah, I can see where the Japanese got the idea from. 😅
have you seen his video about the 43 polish mailmen who stood up against the nazis becoming the first first battle of WW2
Thank you for your excellent work; great video. I love your military history shows, you do a much better job of avoiding your political bias when talking about military history. Keep up the great work. 👍
Thank you!
So i don't know any actual numbers for this but the bunkers back then, I BELIEVE (please correct me respectfully if I'm wrong, i like to learn), that at the time the bunkers could be approximately 15-20 ft underground until bunker busters come into play, in which case i belive that the number is >60 ft underground. Again, i may not know or remember the correct numbers.
50's are a LOT more effective than he thinks. B-25 gun ships with 12 each, ripped up transports and destroyers in the Bismark sea, 1943. They probably started a LOT of leaks. P 47 Thunderbolts were to gain fame as tankbusters in 1944 with 8. these Wildcats had 6..not far behind. Remember destroyers are nicknamed "Tin Cans" for a reason. Little to no armor. Also: I don't think Hammerin' hank hit the depth charges. I think he hit the torpedo racks. Long Lance torpedoes were oxygen powered.and the ships had an oxygen generating plant on board. BIG boom.
Don't forget less the AZ, the ships at pearl were raised, repaired and put back into action.
Depends on the bunker... if they had steel reinforced concrete bunkers on wake Island than the Marines only issue was Ammo, if they were just make shift basically wooden reinforced Mines built on wake Island than the issue becomes if the opening to the bunkers were hit or not. the Materials used would be a factor cause no one but the Germans could do what America could pull off if America Applied what they could do at a given location. My belief not really digging into what they actually did is they sailed the retired USS Texas to Wake Island and they made a base on the Island by scrapping her and repurposing everything on the Ship to make the Base.
Yes. Marines were drafted in WW2
Sad u didnt react to a bunch of the jokes, sad u dont finish the video to the end of the playbar. Really enjoy the additional history context you add tho. Id highly recommend all the fat electrician videos, along with his second channel the fat files. The aldis video is probably the best start.
One small error. The communist didn’t engage in many battles during world war 2. The nationals did the bulk of the fighting. After the war the communists were at full strength and were able to overrun the nationals. Mao sent a letter to Japan in the 70s thanking them because otherwise they never would have been able to win against the nationals if they weren’t weakened by them
Making 1 time use planes is bad resource management on japans part
Take a shot every time Mr Terry says Pearl Harbor in this video :D
You’ll need a liver transplant halfway through
Are Marines really a better "amphibious fighting force" than the Navy Seals? Or, have the Seals surpassed them since then? I thought that the Seals are specifically trained for amphibious warfare. Am I way off on this?
"Wait til you see the whites of their eyes."
14:05 /// Well, no. The Americans shot down 8 planes and damaged 20, I don't know where he got that 21 from.
I would also add that 550 Japanese were killed in the Battle of Wake Island, of which 350 were destroyer crews. That is, 200 of them died during the landing. Let's face it, it was no Thermopylae and there was no great battle there.
Just a bit of luck and the sinking of two obsolete destroyers.
Re: The communists winning in China because their troops gained experience in WW2, I thought at least part of the reason was that they let the nationalists take the brunt of the fighting against the Japanese, but I'm not completely sure, I think its something that I only heard relatively recently.
Salute!
Dude, you have to listen much more closely, Nick said that the Japanese thought that US Marines were recruited from…. Not US citizens.
So Mao and Chiang. First, Mao's communists won because of the support of the people. Pretty obvious Chiang didn't care. First there was the "last stand" in the warehouse in Shanghai which he sacrificed his best men to put on a show for the foreigners living in the international quarter across the river to try to garner international support. When they died, Japan steamrolled their way to Nanjing, the capitol. Chiang had already left town went to Chongqing with international military generals. He left his army to defend Nanjing, but when Japan dropped leaflets on the city warning civilians to flee, the army told everyone it's going to be fine before turning tail and running away in the middle of the night. So it's pretty easy to see why the people supported Mao instead of Chiang. Chiang was a wealthy noble married to the one of the infamous Soong sisters that controlled the Shanghai business world, so he would have been seen as the 1% that doesn't give a shit about the common Chinese citizen. To make matters worse for the nationalists, when the Japanese first moved into China, the communists sided with the factory workers in Shanghai to strike against the companies that were supplying the Japanese military.
As for Mao and Chiang uniting against a common enemy? HAHAHA! We tried to get them to do it. We even forced them to hold a meeting together in person to put aside their differences and unite against a common enemy. Those 2 could barely keep it together. Communists always did their own thing in the "United Front" against the Japanese. If the war hadn't ended when it did, I've read the American officials in Chongqing were considering switching allegiances to Mao because Chiang was incompetent. But, then FDR died, anti-communist president took office, and the war ended.
Mr. Terry, can you please shine your light on the Tucker - Putin interview? Would be great to hear your response with historical knowledge.
World War II? China built up artificial islands in the South China Sea, often in the territorial waters of other countries. At least two of these have been turned from sea mounts barely breaching the water to being large enough to have runways for transports and fighter jets, large radar stations, long-range surface to air missiles, long range anti-ship missiles, close in weapon systems, and a detachment of Chinese Marines or army. Let's just hope these don't become important in World War 3
You need to watch all the way to the end of his videos, there's always stuff after the screen you stopped on.
Target rich environment
It is coral we bomed and hit guam with battleships ie 16 in guns. And did nothing
If you are 10 12 feet in the coral you should be safe
Terry you skipped the real end again with the real vets of wake. Shame on you.
This was the straw that broke the camel's back. The reason that the SEABEES were created yes i am retired navy SEABEE
you might want to look up an OLD movie called the. THE FIGHTING SEABEES it is a John Wayne movie
The more Fat Electrician I watch, the worse the bruise on my forehead gets from facepalming so hard after every time he talks about some Military/Gov higher up screws something up, vindictively holds back, steals credit, just outright ignores the right thing to do. I know it's typical. But it still irks.
US salutes don't show the palm, bud 😂
every time you skip the end of a TFE video, i'm giving a dislike...your videos are good but you're doing everyone a disservice...sorry
I had to change my vote for the same reason, cuting primary sources is a sin for any historian.
I love ya man but fix your salute we aren't Britt's
Samurai outside of Japan were shit though weren't they
Kind of easy to get an inflated ego or sense of invincibility when you fight against those who either aren't ready to fight, or didn't arm themselves for a fight.
in hindsight, we fucked up. god bless America. if you think Taiwan is currently worse off than the mainland, i have some beachfront property in Kansas to sell you
Notification Squad! :D
Literally talked through so much of what he said that u missed key points he made. Terrible reaction
I will delete the video. Sorry.
I am the one thousand’s like