BKE REDUX domes review (in a Topre Realforce)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ส.ค. 2018
- Skip to 8:03 for a typing demonstration.
Get them here: mykeyboard.eu/search/?q=BKE
Today we look at BKE REDUX domes for Topre keyboards. These domes are much more tactile than the original Topre domes and are based on a series of vintage Sony keyboards.
My keyboard reviews: bit.ly/1TbOtft
My switch teardowns: bit.ly/2C1QGHz
My TOP X videos: bit.ly/2FmpZfd
My XL typing demos: bit.ly/2OoAW3w
I'm Thomas and I do videos and reviews on mechanical keyboards ranging from the most sickening modern RGB gaming keyboards to vintage hardware relics, or sometimes keycaps or keyswitches ranging from Cherry MX to Alps SKCM to IBM buckling springs and anything in between.
Follow me on Twitter for updates on my keyboard videos! / chyrosran22
The practice sentence was: "Hello my name is Thomas and I'm typing on a Topre Realforce with BKE Redux domes right now. This thing feels completely insane, it's so easy to miss keypresses every once in a while!" - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I bought a new pair of high end headphones and listening to you for the first time with them is like having my ears massaged by angels.
I have 150g thick clickbar Kailh Speeds so idk maybe the extremes are for me.
do you use these for typing or gaming? because if you are able to type on these you are crazy
@@lunchbox1341 He probably types on these when he's angry, and switches to mx blues once he turns back into Bruce Banner
What the fuck
Typewriter feel?
I want to make super box navies but the springs are never in stock :(
Surprised your fingers lasted through the whole typing demo with those extreme domes.
He sure typed slower, like half as fast as usual.
I find it quite interesting that the extreme is way to heavy for a lot of people. Im using the extremes for a while as my daily driver because i simply loved them. I also have a board with box navy's, but don't like them that much anymore because the BKE's feel so much more snappier and nice on my fingers.
have you tried them before?
I agree, I've been using extremes in my 660C for almost a year now & love them! I think their reputation comes from how they feel before getting broken in. I'll admit they do have almost meme levels of stiffness at first, but after a good week or two of usage they really break in IME. In fact when I took my 660C to Keycon almost everybody who tried it out said they were really surprised at how usable broken in extremes felt.
@@LuisFKA I just ordered some extremes. Wondering if you've ever tried the Heavies? And i]what the differences are. See I am using heavies now and I love them. They don't actually feel heavy, they feel really solid tho, and i suppose it depends alot on the typing style of the user. So question is will someone who loves heavies love Extremes as well?
Holy crap I never thought i'd see this reviewed by you! I got the Light domes back when they came out and threw them into my HHKB and couldn't believe how much i loved them. It was my first mod and seemed like a good first stab at opening up a board of mine and customizing it. Hearing your praise of them just makes them even better :) Would love to see more mods and what not from you as i feel it makes it more approachable!
I'm thankful for all of the work you put in to put out videos for the keyboard communities!
Tried out a Norbatouch with Heavy domes at a meetup. It was my favourite board just for the sheer insanity of the feel but I definitely could not use one every day. Your description of them feeling either on or off is spot-on.
Finally a review of the different domes thank you!!!
After this video, Keyclack experienced an exponential demand in BKE domes.
110 packs of the lights and ultra lights are all sold out. Aw, man.
:( true. But don't be sad cause I know from experience that BKE Redux Domes are normally restocked frequently. Just wait for a while and you'll probably be able to grab one. Or, you can always go on r/mechmarket and buy it from someone on there.
John Sihn Thanks, in that case I'll wait for them to be restocked.
Back in stock sir!
John Sihn Only heavy and extreme are in stock. I guess I'll have to wait.
Funnily enough, the CRTs used with these (Sony BVM and PVM) are hunted down by retro-gamers because they're more or less the best ever made. Sony was quite something.
I'm still mad at myself for selling my ViewSonic 22 inch flat CRT.
I'm glad I've finally got to hear your opinions on BKE redux domes because no offense to any other keyboard reviewer out there, but their descriptions of them do not go any further than "it's really tactile" and I have yet to see a video other than this one that properly compares them with stock Topre domes or any other keyboard for that matter, and offers suggestions. After watching this video I've decided to go through with my purchase of the ultra lights. I was flip-flopping between the lights and ultra lights because I did not like the sound of a 35g weighting but even the 45g lights just sounded a tad too stiff according to other people. On top of that, I haven't found (or looked hard enough for) BKE Redux force curve diagrams to give me a better idea of what to expect so when you said that they may be a little more stiff than what the website says, I think it solidified my choice with the ultra lights and I thought that if they do turn out a little too light, I could always get a pack of those 10g spacebar springs and put them in which should also slightly dampen the tactility? At least that's what the general consensus seems to be. Anyway, excellent video.
Thank you, glad you found the video useful :) .
Follow up, how do you like the BKE ultra lights?
Rocking the light domes on my old faithful Realforce right now!
Been wanting a review of these for ages, thank you!
Great review! As someone who actually enjoys variable topre weighting and finds the stock 55g boards too tiring to type on for long periods of time, the ultra lights actually sound quite interesting, I always assumed they would be way too light but it's interesting to hear that they are still about the same weight as the lighter stock domes in topre boards.
They feel roughly as stiff as 45 g domes, but with the tactile bump of 55 g ones. They're pretty accessible, I'd say.
How on earth a deep look at the set of rubber springs can be so irresistibly mesmerizing?
I actually swapped out and sold my BKE lights. The tactility was good and all but it was just too much, it felt far too "aggressive" to type on. If I still had my realforce I'd probably give ultra lights a try.
If anyone is interested, I have a couple relevant typing demos:
BKE Heavy Domes (w/ silent sliders & Hi-pro's):
th-cam.com/video/bXBgxy0ZZRE/w-d-xo.html
Stock HHKB:
th-cam.com/video/II1qAzjlrq8/w-d-xo.html
I'm a huge fan of the Heavy Domes, but only with the Hi-pro's. When paired with OEM Topre keycaps theyre uncomfortably heavy for my taste (and I prefer switches on the heavier side).
Realforce boards are pure class. I put the heavies in mine as I thoroughly enjoy tactility. For the first month or so I had near regret level thoughts - it was like taking drugs and not wanting your parents to find out lol. SUPER satisfying but absolutely punishing on the finger tips.
After some time passed they broke in, and are buttery smooth with this ultra satisfying bump and thock - I can't imagine using anything else.
@Matthew Zilog Shut up, just... shut up. Christ, are people just so addicted to shitting on other peoples' purchasing choices? Look, I agree that Topre are expensive as hell for what they are, but so are the millions of customs or other vintage boards you'll see. This anti-Topre snobbery is something I am thoroughly sick and tired of.
You should avoid typing on the extreme ones too much, otherwise your fingers will be... domed.
no
yes
take your like and leave
Very good, more like this. Thank you.
I got the new Redux V2 Lights for my Happy Hacking Keyboard and they feel like a really nice middle between BTC dome with slider and regular Topre. Very snappy but smooth. Almost like bubble wrap popping underneath my fingers as I type.
Now just cut the price of a realforce by $100 and we'll be gravy
Exactly my thoughts!
Yeah for anyone wondering if $200+ for a Realforce or Hhkb is worth it, it’s not (I’ve owned both), Topre is nice but those boards are stupidly overpriced for what they are. I think you can pick up a Plum keyboard and put these BKE domes in, you’ll save about 100 bucks.
Yeah, was thinking about it, technically if you put these domes in a Chinese Topre clone, they wouldn't feel any different than a real Topre board would with the same domes.
thats exactly what i had in mind, the question is, do these fit in cheap chinese clones? (after googling): so it looks like they will fit in nopres but its a bit of a ballache to get them lined up properly compared to when swapping them into true topre
Guess it depends whether 2-3 hours of your time is worth saving $100. I know that you can get a Plum keyboard for about $100, and BKE domes range from $60-80 (you might also want to lube the sliders a bit on the clones so $5 for lube). An HHKB with BKE is $210 + $60-80, while a a Realforce is $240 + $60-80, that's a lot of moolah.
I just swapped BKE Lights into my Realforce RGB, and I really like the feel. The problem for me now is that regular Topre feels linear. I also haven't swapped all of the domes yet, as I only had 69 (nice) domes. I think I'll get a heavy dome for the spacebar and remove the external coil spring. I still need to fix the alignment of the domes on some of the keys, as they stick if I really hammer them and hold them down for too long. Granted, this isn't natural keyboard use, so it's actually not too big an issue. It took me a good 6 hours of work to get my board to where it is now, and a lot of that was 1) cutting the domes to allow the LEDs to shine through, and 2) disassembling and reassembling to fix keys not actuating or sticking during normal use.
This is a really finicky mod, but I'd say it's totally worth it in the end.
The extreme domes really make you feel the snapping whipcracks of the rubber domes and plastic keycaps as they shoot up and down. You can HEAR the weight.
Finally! Domes I can use with my jack hammer! You're a lifesaver!
I have the BKE ultra lights on a Realforce 87u, and I'm feeling a bit of a love-hate relationship with them. On the one hand, I like the extra tactility. On the other hand, they don't really feel like stock Topre. For one, the deep Topre "thock" is turned into a slightly higher pitched "theck". The keyboard is now ever so slightly louder, and is it just me, or do the keys sound slightly more rattle-y?
I would love to try a Topre at some point, if I find it at the right price, the best I've tried over the years(at least the ones I can remember) far as domes, and domes with sliders have been a few different IBM models, and I currently use a restored IBM white/off white KB-8923 for my work keyboard, which I know is not a true dome with slider, but it's better than 90% of other dome boards.
Could we get a video of typing on all 4?
Currently giving some of the more interesting rubber-dome boards (that are somewhat affordable) another try. I've got ultra-light weight 35G NiZ EC board coming in with a 50G NiZ rubberdome sheet being sent shorty after. Very curious to see how this will feel next to my standard MX Brown boards.
It seems like the extreme domes might be good for Caps Lock or any other keys you accidentally trigger when you don't want to.
Chyrosran22 I am really interested in learning of the 35 compared to 45g topre. I love topre but want a lighter feel. Will I be disappointed?
I wouldn't call any of these domes really "lighter". The added tactility inherently imparts a stiffer feel.
Can you do a review on Gateron Optical Switches. Theres a cheap optical keyboard on amazon for 39.99 called the Aurtec Optical Keyboard.
do you think heavier domes would be better fitting in esc, spacebar, backspace, and such keys?
I'd love to try those extreme domes as I'm a Royal Hako user
How do these compare with a 1995-1997 Packard Bell keyboard such as a 5130 or 5131c. I love those keyboards and they are very poppy and so I bought a Realforce keyboard hoping Topre would be similar and while it is in the fact that there is a little pop to them they mostly feel like mush.
I put BKE lights in my Niz Plum keyboard. It's a must-have mod IMO. The stock 35g domes are too light for me and almost feel linear. The BKE lights transformed the Niz into a pleasurable daily driver. The tactility is so snappy, and the weight is very similar to Topre 55g.
So, I like the cherry MX greens a lot, please which dome is the right for me? And please where can I currently find these domes available for sale I'd like to buy them soon. Thank you very much for the help.
The return clack of the super domes was pretty amazing sounding tho, NGL.
Does the open dome design make the sensing vulnerable to dirt/dust? I really like my BKE Ultra Lights. They don't feel as round compared to Topre but I enjoy the snappy response and lighter feel. I just hope they last, a few reviewers mentioned the alpha domes felt lighter than the lesser used f row after just a couple weeks of regular typing.
No, I'm pretty sure the open top doesn't make it more susceptible to dust; they're under the slider which IS closed off.
Extremely heavy weighting might seem crazy, but remember you dont have to use them on all your switches. I'm using 150g spring on my windows key and 75g spring on my caps lock for a reason xD
That's a good point. I might use some Extreme ones to "disable" my Windows and Insert keys, as I think those are actually negatively useful xD .
Just installed a set of heavies in my Realforce 104U Silent...should have went with the lights...
I tried the Ultra-Light and they are good but after using them for a year I am ordering some Lights. I will probably put those on the alpha keys only.
man, I wish I could get over to seattle for one of the keyboard meetups to actually see how these different switches actually feel and look at peoples customizations
Don't feel bad the nearest one to me is Charleston, SC which is about a 4 1/2 hour drive one way. So I'm just happy when I find something I want on eBay, out at random thrifting for cheap, or at the recycle drop off.
FinalCPU Frankfurt. Nov. 3rd. Be there or be square.
Hah! I guess I'll be the Germ-glish cuboid cause I'm not making it over the pond :P
I can see the Extreme domes being useful for Lock keys, but a full keyboard of those would only be suitable for Hafthor Bjornsson.
As a daily user of MX-Green do you think the Extreme are to stiff for me? I have a FC660C coming in soon :)
3 year old comment but id suggest heavy maybe
Could you put this in a dome with slider keyboard?
The domes are out of stock unfortunately. By any chance does someone know where I could still find these or similar?
is that possible to do another optical switch from Bloody?
Should I get the Grey if I like my stock 55s but want more snap?
why can't we have custom topre-style keyboards?
i like them, but don't use them in my daily driver hhkb. i think that the usual feel of the domes are better for long use
As an added bonus the open tops on the domes should eliminate the farting sounds regular topre domes make as the air gets quashed out of them.
Dang, they don't seem to ship to the US and I can't seem to find a source. So bummed, I invested in a Realforce but made the mistake of getting the gradient force and it's simply too light for me. These domes would be a perfect solution for me. ;-(
I waited for a review of them. How convenient would be to pick a Plum Niz capacitive and swap the rubber mat with BKE ultra light or light?
Btw i hope to win the auction for an SGI Granite with Alps switches and the original shortcut paper from Alias/Wavefront
I don't know if the domes are compatible with Plum keyboards.
i still love stock 45g topre, and I own a model M and F and zealio 62g. So for me chasing ultimate tactility is already achieved with the model F, M is too heavy for my tastes but still provides great feedback and feel. Zealio is just smooth and ready to go, my lightest of all keyboards. In summary, Upgrading Topre doesn’t seem worth it.
What is the best keyboard (top 5 maybe) of those in production today ?
Has to be the Topre Realforce R2.
Leopold FC980C is another high contender
Hmmm wonder if they would work in a novatouch
Are you going to do a BKE REDUX REDUX for the V2 domes, or is there no significant difference.
The extremes would be good for the WIN keys on my 87U because I game on it, although I almost never hit it by accident.
This would be another thing to annoy my friends with by talking about me keyboard. Perfect.
Out of stock... any alternatives please??
3:35 Only 30 minutes for the whole mod? It will probably take me that long just to open the case of my Realforce RGB.
Wait, where the hell would you even FIND 180g springs to fit in a Zealio?
I want some ultra lights but they are sold out everywhere D:
I swear if you bought that Sony BKE just for this video, you are a bonafide mad-lad. I’ve been going all around for one of those fuckers.
how niz switches differ from these ?
You do not have to use the same type of dome for all keys. The heavier types are extremely useful for keys you do not want to press accidentally, e.g. caps lock, win key.
I think it's nice that they support people that want to write an essay after a day of one finger pullups.
Still wondering when that "the quietest switches ever made" list will be launched.
I started wondering that if we put Topre spring inside the normal rubber domes, will it make any difference? :)))))))
It shouldn't do too much if it doesn't interfere with operation. The springs are extremely light - only 5 g - and aren't meant as a return or travel-impacting element, just as a variable capacitor :) .
Maybe I'll just get the real Topre boards :D
Just wanted to say, before i'm done watching the video, if anyone is thinking about putting these into non-Topre boards (ie Plum/NIZ, noppoo etc) I would highly recommend thinking twice as it's way more fiddly since it doesn't have the nubs, and the pcbs seem to be way more sensitive and never work perfectly afterwards (in a lot of cases). Just a warning*, some people do the swap on them and it turns out fine, but it's a risk.
seconded. i had a horrible experience dome-swapping my plum. couldnt get all the keys to register and then my pcb just gave up a month after the swap.
I have the light ones in my Plum and they work perfectly. I needed to open it up again two times to correct my alignments and be very careful while closing it up so they don't slide out of position.
@@walk_dont_walk yeah, for some it works, but my s hardly works now, even outside and it being the only dome. Apparently the PCBs aren't the greatest when it comes to the swap and can be super sensitive to changes. I just wanted to give people a heads up. I wish it'd work on mine but I bought another and now I at least have a test ultralight one now lol.
Christopher ive read a lot of tutorials and accounts of peoples experiences dome-swapping. it doesnt work for everyone. the PCBs are really sensitive and quality seems to vary, so some people have no problem. i had to open the board to realign at least 10 times, and it still was never 100% (and then the board died). it really seems like it depends on your experience level, and also the model of the board. im glad you got it to work in your board, though. Plums dome-swapped are my favorite electro-capacitative boards, I like them more than Topre.
Maya Nathan I am sorry to hear this.
It is hard to align these small rubber pieces. On a plum there are some small round stand offs around the dome housings. They make it even harder. I used a hole puncher (normally used to make another hole in your belt if it does not fit anymore) to cut out small parts out of the flat part of the domes exactly where the round things are on the plum board. It is hard to describe and maybe you also already tried something like this. It helped me align and also allows the construction to be more flat. Maybe this helped or it is just by chance. I don’t know.
Man these are my favorite. Topres are ok but these bke domes make them 3x more tactile.
‘My friend has 180g Zealios’, l can get behind stiff switches, but wtf
force curve?
The 90g domes are for all the pianists out there. Shoutouts to them
Are these hardier silicone instead of fall-apart rubber?
These are made out of silicone, yes.
Thanks!
I wonder if those domes could be put in something other than a Topre board.
Even if they could, I'm not sure what the point is, to be honest. I can't think of anything else that's on a price level that would justify the cost xD .
Those extreme domes made it sound like the keycaps were about to bounce off the keyboard with the amount of force they were pushing back up at you. Jesus. Admittedly it sounded good though.
Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the Extreme ones would benefit form silencing rings as well xD .
Typing on those extreme domes is like typing on a Keytronic 101
i got both light and heavy.... i like the heavy more i need to get my fingers stronger for my jiu jitsu training lol.
So basically the black and white ones cause Topre's to act virtually like scissor switches? (Be it hilariously more tactile and stiffer)
Finally, as close to a "mechanical" alternative to scissor switches as one could probably get.
Truth be told I will probably look into those Abko Hacker keyboards with Topre clones as Abko seems to have the same keyboards as Plum. Plums can utilize these domes as well from what I've heard.
Nice thumbnail!
Thank you! :)
After trying these myself for a while, the only interesting ones are the extreme and ultralights. The light and heavy both feel fine but they kind of defeat the point of using topre as a mechanical switch as mentioned in the video. I would say the lights are a good compromise between tactility and usability. The extreme ones are quite nice to type on with the right sliders and caps.
The Sony BKE keyboards never felt snappy at all, they only feel like that once you cut out the middle part of the dome (which you're forced to do when installing them in to a topre realforce or hhkb)
Honestly the BKE boards felt like cheap rubber domes because of the nub in the middle of the dome.
They WERE the cheaper alternative :p . But yeah, obviously you have cut out the nub - hence why they did the same in these repros. I saw the report on what I think is the original modification, it's a pretty cool story - although he wasn't the guy who commercialised the idea in the end.
Having 'cheap' and 'topre' in the same sentence is always a good laugh :P
Will you be getting your hands on any original BKE domes? I've got them installed in my HHKB and nothing feels or sounds as good to me, at least in the rubber dome lineup.
Sweet vid btw, hope your fingers didn't ache too much after those ridiculous extreme domes ;)
Haha I tried to get some but then it turned out I had bought an Omron version, which I didn't even know existed xD . I'll be looking for one, but their prices are up and down like a whore's drawers. As for the fingers; they're on to something very soothing and light now, thankfully xD .
If I had a topre board I'd get the ultra light ones just because they're purple... Alas, I have a sixteen quid Logitech rubberdome board. Volume dial though, and it's been lasting ages.
It sounds like you're just punching through the desk on the extremes. 😂
But how are they dashing?
The dashing keyboard is the one that I'll be reviewing after my holiday ;) .
Ok Den
Did the downstairs neighbors complain about those extreme domes? Wow.
The "extremes" might as well be a rival to box Royals…
I get why people like topre, a good quality rubber dome board is quite nice to type on in my opinion, but they artificially inflate the price tenfold. One can buy a 10keyless mech for $25 on amazon with outemu switches. Yeah blue knockoffs aren’t great but they are still mechs.
Cool
Out of stock on the website.
I've had a couple requests to record the dome swap and this video inspired me, so here's one of me opening my personal board up and moving a couple Domes around:
th-cam.com/video/EmHAb21OjMQ/w-d-xo.html
Just a heads up - this isn't a proper tutorial or walk through, just a recording of swapping the shits out.
How can i get these in my amazon basics keyboard
I just don't understand why these have to cost so much.
They don't :p . Just like Topre!
Too bad they are pretty much out of stock on all of them, minus some extreme and heavy ones :D
Contact them, I know they've applied for new stock and are apparently expecting it soon :) .
Personally I absolutely love my BKE lights in an fc660c, best money I've ever spent for mech boards:D
Except it's not a mech keyboard.
The only thing holding me back is the fear of accidentally breaking my Realforce keyboard while figuring out how to open it.
It's really not that hard xD .
Now play Typing of the Dead on the extremes 😝
уговорил, надо брать
Topres always sound slightly loose, a little bit wiggly and rattly. Not these. These are tight as a drum.
damn second. I use heavy. Now I can't use anything else.