Topre Realforce 104UW review (Topre variable-weight capacitive)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Skip to 12:23 for a typing demonstration.
Thanks to a donation, I can now finally review one of these! One of the most well-known Topre boards is on the menu today.
My keyboard reviews: bit.ly/1TbOtft
My switch teardowns: bit.ly/2C1QGHz
My TOP X videos: bit.ly/2FmpZfd
I'm Thomas and I do videos and reviews on mechanical keyboards ranging from the most sickening modern RGB gaming keyboards to vintage hardware relics, or sometimes keycaps or keyswitches ranging from Cherry MX to Alps SKCM to IBM buckling springs and anything in between.
Follow me on Twitter for updates on my keyboard videos! / chyrosran22
The practice sentence was: "Hello my name is Thomas and I'm typing on a Topre Realforce right now. I think this is definitely a very interesting keyboard, and definitely worth at least trying out, but man, $$$$..."
Wow, an actual reasonable opinion of Topre.
You might be the first person I've heard talk about them that I can actually agree with.
But I'd expect no less from this channel. Great content as always.
Thank you :) .
Yeah, I like how in the video you also mention that 'mechanical' is a very vague definition and that it's not really too fair that anything that isn't 'mechanical' is viewed as super bad or something, as you say, there are plenty of good and high quality rubber dome boards with interesting key feel. Another great video!
@@silvrfoxie594 Not to mention that not all "mechanicals" are exactly good either. Its a very assumption based term with very dodgy results behind it.
Honestly I'd be better if keyboards just specified what they all are rather than using a umbrella term that doesn't exactly work properly if it is anything not Cherry MX based.
@Spearra I can agree with you on that. Many people say that cherry mx brown feels like scratchy linears and I agree, I prefer my hand me down dell rubber dome keyboard over mx brown. You also have cherry mx blue which I also think feels like scratchy linears and sound horrible, it feels a tiny bit better than brown but I still prefer my hand me down dell rubber dome keyboard. I have a smith corona typewriter with foam and foil switches that feel smooth but are awful because the bottom out is mushy thanks to the foam and they are increadibly heavy too. You also have smith corona leaf springs which chyrosran22 put as number one on worst switches. You also have cherry my, next time you see someone who thinks cherry is the gold standard tell them to try cherry my, they are absolutely terrible. And then you have edge cases where for example someone says all membrane keyboards are not mechanical and that all membrane keyboards are bad and all mechanical keyboards are good, that would mean that the model m is not mechanical and is a bad keyboard, and that would also mean that topre and btc dome with slider are mechanical. Honestly I wish the term mechanical did not exist
This review is *BY FAR* the best topre keyboard review I've ever seen.
"Who cares how it works as long as it feels good" - well said!
your videos help me sleep at night
it's like you're unintentionally running an asmr channel
your voice is deep and soothing, and the key presses are a nice sound to fall asleep to, like rain on a tin roof
also, since i don't have a particular interest in keyboards, i can just zone out while i listen to you go on about which types of rubber domes are better than other ones
overall, i love your content and i hope you never stop making more
well that's a bit rude.
i'm sure that his regular speaking voice is different, but i don't think it would be that extreme
sorry, i was joking too.
it's kinda hard to portray tonality through text, so i'm probably to blame for that
Kanga Roo Bob Ross of KEYBOARDsss... !!!
I totally agree with you on this one. There is Topre clones out there. People are also modding them with dome sheets that are made for Topre boards. I know I got about 130 into this keyboard without the caps since they get rotated on different keyboards. Switching the dome sheet to a all 65g is heaven. I even put 10g return springs.
This is a typing man's keyboard. Those who claim that the actuation force is 'too light' or 'too linear' on the edges, are simply not typing all day. Typing all day on a 55g keyboard would be at worst, terrible for your hands, and at best, exhausting.
I picked up a silent version of this keyboard for work, absolutely love it.
IMO Topre is well worth it if you happen to really get on with the switches, and if you don't you can always sell it on for a small loss on Mechmarket. I absolutely adore my Leopold FC660C with BKE Light domes, Hasu controller (I've adjusted the actuation height up a little in the QMK firmware :D ), silencing rings on the sliders, sorbothane and acoustic foam in the case, and a little lube in the slider housing rails too :) Quite expensive, but honestly I couldn't be happier with it.
There's not much that quite compares to Topre, and the capacitive nature of the switches makes them just so much better for me as a light typist, I always have little mistakes and double presses creeping in with electromechanical switches due to the chatter.
I'm in love with this channel and this is the only video i've seen from it
*sees chyrosran vid*
[posted 13 seconds ago]
CLICK
Eurobeat Intesifies.
But the "thock thock..." that's worth at least 100$ right... right? To people bashing lack of lights etc, it's not aimed at the gamer market; these were aimed at the Japanese corporate market, before the keyboard fans found them; all about quality and a "no depreciation" - buy once equipment. If you write for a living, it may well be worth it. Their Hi-Pro model has a cult following with writers, some of the kudos they receive is probably justified. And, I almost don't want to write this, it's not THAT expensive for a top end; many of us are sinking double that for model-F repros. Topre is weird, I have a pretty decent selection of buckling springs, alps, etc. in all sorts of more or less ergonomic formats; yet, when I'm going to be writing a long proposal or paper, I break out the 45g norbatouch - I took out the 55g domes, which I like better when playing around, and went back to 45g for the long haul. It's the only board that doesn't seem to aggravate my RSI, unlike all the ortholinear ergonomics I have. Make of this what you will /shrug/
Lucid Nonsense, oh yeah, I’ve been waiting on a Model F repro by Ellipse for ages ... I hope it’s not much longer. I have the high profile Topre but never really got used to it. I also have a tenkeyless Realforce and love it, but I also love my old IBM Model M and I switch between the two keyboards depending on my mood. I just can’t choose one definitively over the other.
I'm 50/50 about Topre. I don't cream myself over them, but I don't dislike them either. They are fine.
if you dont CREAM yourself over them its a bad price
Hi Thomas, just commenting on a random video of yours as I have watched so many of yours now. Great in-depth reviews, and your knowledge and enthusiasm is infectious. Thank you for making and sharing with the outer world.
"Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber."
"Good feeling of oneness with cup rubber." 3:40
An advantage Topre has, at least for office environments is its sound over other mechanical keyboards. Because of its capacitive nature, I can type very quietly when needed and yet it's not loud enough to annoy my office mates when I'm less mindful. I too prefer a numpad, but Topre's numpad-less options are great for use with pull out keyboard trays where a full size keyboard is just isn't an option. The build quality is fantastic, and I love its clean aesthetic too. If you're using one of these boards for everyday serious typing, then these boards are a great option but only then would I look past its steep price tag.
The Realforce RGB has real-time variable actuation distance, it's fucking fantastic. Because the switches are capacitive, the keyboard is just checking if the capacitance is larger than a given value, and you can change that value on the fly. I put it in short actuation mode for games and medium for typing (full actuation is a bit too far for me, but it's an option).
Still shit compared to modern Hall-effect keyboard.
I own a niz keyboard and I really love it. Objectively the best keyboard I own, it has the least amount of problems with it and it feels so nice. My favorite keyboard to use at night or when people are trying to sleep. Super duper quiet but also pleasant feeling, it’s like typing on clouds. I really want to get a real force r3 one day because it looks so much better with that top bezel and legitimate topre switches. The niz though has the advantage of mx stems which is a huge plus for me.
Totally agree with you about how topre feels 'too rounded'. Many people would disagree though, but if the phrase 'too tactile' seems like an impossibility to you, you won't like topre.
Great review as usual Chyros! So glad to see someone else that has a rational view on Topre! I got myself Leopold 660C & left it stock for a few months just to see what Topre was really about. Honestly I came to the same conclusion as you, it is a very nice switch yet definitely not the end all be all some claim it to be.
Yes they are rubber domes & yes they are very nice, high quality boards. No need for the craziness that surrounds them in the community, but I digress. Anyways keep up the good work bud, seeing a new video from you always makes me click instantly!
Rob R Dunno if you still have the FC660C, but if so I recommend a swap to the BKE Redux domes for a pretty different feel ;)
Already have bud! ;) Went with the extremes since I love heavy switches & they are heavenly compared to the stock 45g Topre domes! Well at least to me since I like very heavy switches, I definitely can say they are not for everyone. Although a few people who tried my 660C at Keycon were really surprised at how comfortable & usable the extremes actually are after they get broken in.
One thing to keep in mind with Topre switches, is that the switch weight tolerance is +/- 15g.
So even with a variable weight keyboard it is possible for the 'a' key to be heavier than the 'd' key.
Weird story: one of these keyboards (variant without a num pad) just showed up on my lab desk one day. I have no idea who dropped it off or why... I’ve been obsessed with mechanical keyboards ever since.
I really like the dimple on the Win key. Really reduces mispresses for me.
I have the black one and I love it because it is the ultimate anti-rgb/"gaming" keyboard. It's not a flashy product, rather it is just a keyboard that is well made, built to last and feels good to type on. Rather than making the lettering easier to see with high contrast print or LEDs it makes it way harder to see, which discourages bad typing and wasting time finding the correct keys. You can of course still see the keys if you want but it is made annoying on purpose because it is bad practice. As an added bonus people using your computer will give you funny comments about the keyboard! Well worth the price.
Came for the keyboard review, stayed for that voice :O
The keyboard is certainly not cheap. However, it's the only one I've ever tried (aside from a pre-Lexmark Model M) whose chassis doesn't creak at all. Even Filcos and Duckys will creak or flex ever so slightly, but not the Topre Realforce 104UW. If you can find this keyboard for under $200.00, I'd say it's worth it. Otherwise, maybe not to much unless you have money to burn.
Edit: Nice review. You're fair and tell it how it is.
Great review. The spacebar is too loud.
See, Lord Chyros summed it up perfectly.
It's a good switch, but not the be all end all of switches.
they are not the greatest for gaming or super fast repeated key presses
I got myself a black on black compact Topre roughly 8 years ago. Before that i was a happy Model M user until my colleagues threatened to kill me or the M. The Topre has several advantages: it is available as new, it is quiet and still has a nice sound. It feels very good, typing is not exhausting at all and it is very robust. Overall a very good keyboard and if you use it until it falls apart, which is probably before i retire i consider it cheap.
You *do* know that you can get brand new Model Ms, right? And beyond that, you can even either grease mod or floss mod them to quiet them considerably. I've tried Topre switches, and although they're actually really nice, $230+ is not a good price for what it is. I may get a few clones and see if they're any better.
I know about the Unicomps but from what i saw these were made a lot cheaper than the 80's M. More like mid 90's Mexican made things with flimsy plastic. I just saw some videos on silenced M's but it's still way too loud for an office with several people in it.
Ehh, I have a Unicomp as well as a true IBM made, and although they are cheaper, they are really good boards despite that. They feel well made, and they felt a lot better built than modern mechanicals. But, I respect what ya type on nonetheless. Cheers!
Also the plastic doesn't seem to be any different to me. I'm using a Model M 122 terminal keyboard as I write this. My other half uses this computer as well, and therefore I needed to replace some of the keys to have more modern legends (Of course, yes, I kept the original ones).
The colors match perfectly (IBM pebble and pearl keys) and the plastic feels perfect in terms of texture and rigidity. They are just like the originals and come in a two piece design: keycap and key.
The only difference at all is the typeface on the keys. It is slightly different and not as sharp. Other than that's perfect.
The only keys by Unicomp that I don't care a lot for are the single piece grey ones. They're not bad, it's just that they don't really work well on the original Model Ms in some cases and I don't find there to be enough contrast between the legends and the key color.
That is something I can 100% agree on. I got this Model M from a yard asale for about $40 and ity was missing a few grey keycaps. I just plopped those on and they don't fit the look of 1980s at *all.* They fit, but at least it looks better than just a few gray squares.
Great review. I am a Keytronic KT2001 Ergoforce and non ergoforce fanatic. It might be very important that you review the Ergoforce in 2020!
I really love your channel!
I like your staright honesty.
In the Keyboard scene many things get hyped way to much in my opinion.
Some of those Nerds take things way to freaking serious :)
Now I've considered doing a variable weight mechanical keyboard.
Box jades on the centre of the keyboard, and whites and pinks on the outside.
Also navy on the space bar and a few others.
5:47 We have those Keytronic keyboards everywhere in Finland (looking at the photo, the layout in the example is Nordic too), I even sent you a PM asking for a review for one way back but I'm happy to hear you have one possibly coming up!
Ah, you mean the ErgoForce? Yes, there will be a review sometime early next year :) .
I appreciate the review but I don't remember you talking about the sound of topre. My wife has misophonia (extreme sensitivity to sound) and the lubed topre board with silencer rings is really quiet and makes my typing much less annoying to her. It's also a really pleasing sound overall even if you don't have a sensitivity. Might be worth talking about that aspect in future topre board reviews. I'm currently using a Leopold FC980C.
I'll be talking about the sound of Topre in more depth in a future review I have planned way down the line.
Chyrosran22 Cool! Looking forward to it. If you get a chance to review a Leopold fc980c at some point, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Great videos!
Unnamed Internet Citizen with silencing rings or without? I put on the KBDfans silencers and it basically removed all the upstroke noise.
Unnamed Internet Citizen Fair enough. I definitely recommend the silencing. It really changes the sound. I’m a big fan.
I have a Realforce 87U with the all 55g switches. I don't think I'd want them to be any lighter than that, as it still feels quite easy to actuate at that weight. The keyboard is built well, and works in a very undramatic way. It just gets out of the way while typing. That said, I am still a bit on the fence on Topre switches. For someone who is not an enthusiast, but just wants a really good typing machine, I think they're great. They don't have a lot of the acclimation issues of some mechanical switches. I recently got a Matias Quiet Pro, however, and I think that 'board is better in almost all ways, for about half as much money (perhaps the reliability angle could be a downfall, but that has not yet been a concern).
Maybe give BKE Redux domes a try, you might quite like the greater tactility, and there's Heavy and Extreme weights which are heavier than the 55g stock Topre domes I think. I really like the Light domes in my Leopold.
Thanks. If one of them finds itself in my path, I'll sure give it a go.
They're ridiculously expensive though, $70 iirc. I understand it's a small run, but still - eff me sideways, I just picked up a model F for that much shipped.
I like your voice as well as the typing sounds of this keyboard :^D
100% agree as someone that has a fc660c Topre board it's good but not end all be all
Regarding your statement about general conditions of Realforce boards:
The worst-condition Realforce I saw was the "Topre Gore" Realforce 86UW, which had an extremely rusty mounting plate. However, now it's restored and looks almost brand new.
Fun fact: Based on the "best tactile switches" video, Topre is Chyros' No. 1 favourite tactile switch that is in production. Sounds like quite an endorsement if you're looking to buy a modern keyboard. :)
I don't know what's smoother, the Topre sliders or your voiiiiiiice.
I have one I bought here in Japan (dark gray model).
I put Kapton tape over the LEDs because they were the garishly bright blue variety.
Even here, yes, it was the equivalent expense. 23,000 JPY. I’ve loved it.
The only problem was that I dropped it once on its corner, and the case did not like that. The clip tab kind of broke, because ABS can be brittle with impacts. Superglue did fix that issue but had to disassemble the case.
Still, it is by and far my preferred keyboard.
i just got my MODEL M 122 YAY they keys are really tall but love it but one or two keys tend to stick down but other than that all good and love your videos btw
leah Knight m 122
:)
One comment: apparently the cable gutter varies between similar models, as I have one 87UB (55g) and I do have the possibility to make the cable come out from the middle of the board. It comes as a surprise, I had expected all Realforce models to have same cable routing.
I love how you're not a fan of ANSI layouts, but the keyboard graphic on the end card is an ANSI layout.
Really need to try the BKE domes man. I started with a BTC and when I bought my first topre it felt very mushy compared to the BTC. After using BKE domes I basically changed completely to only using topre boards with bke domes.
I like topre switches because of the tactility they have. It's very prominent and I like it. Cherry switches don't really have the tactility that I want. They have always been very minor for the most part. However, if I ever get my hands on ALPs which supposedly are heavenly, then I might have to switch
That PacBell was my first owned keyboard. First keyboard I had deep use on was powermac g2 keyboard in school. I had no idea about other keyboards until 2000. Then I found IBM Model M euphoria.
1:20 A.M. in a Saturday morning, in my boxers, right out of the shower, lying prone on my bed, with a new keyboard video.
*Fucking Clikk’d.*
I prefer tenkeyless because I don't want to slide my keyboard all over the place just to switch between typing or using the mouse, nor do I want to have my arms full length apart when gaming. But, I have a Leopold with Topre switches that crams a numpad on the board but is only a tiny bit wider than a tenkeyless.
capacitive actuators mean that *you could control actuating depth by software, right?*
Yep it is possible to have the board's firmware control the actuation depth. Newer Realforce boards can do this, and my Leopold FC660C with a Hasu controller has some adjustment capability via the QMK files. I like to keep the actuation point in mine just 1 'notch' higher than stock though, it's mainly useful if you want to swap to BKE domes which have a different percieved collapse point.
Used a topre board once, only realized it after I was asked how I liked the switches. Didn't notice anything especially special about it, thought it was a nicer rubber dome board
12:23 nice sound.
I am currently using the tenkeyless version with 55g domes with BKE redux heavies for the modifiers and spacebar, just waiting on a case from Norbauer to complete it. It's quite lovely and very enjoyable to use. That being said, just as it isn't shit Topre's also not endgame. Variety is where it's at.
3:06 This is incorrect. Capacitors do not act as diodes regardless of how they're energized. Capacitors store energy in an electric field, and current flows through the component without rectification.
you can buy a hall effect keyboard? outside massdrop? where? i want one.
bamdadkhan there's an email address in my last APT video. You can order them from her.
awesome, thank you. ^^
very informative review! What is your opinion about topre clones used in Plum NiZ keyboards?
Could we maybe start defining "Mechanical" switches as any switch that can actuate without needing to bottom out?
That way you include Topre switches in there but still exclude most membrane boards.
You should try one with BKE redux domes.
I always wanted a realforce, but I'm the cheapest person on the planet. Just so happened that I got sent to Japan on a student exchange. I nabbed my chance and picked a JIS black on black realforce for just £130. In the UK they're worth about £210. I bought a few HHKBs for other people while I was there as well, for £150 each. Solid stuff.
I was thinking about how the variable weight only really matters if you properly touch type, and then I saw that in your typing test you have started to use more fingers and your right thumb for spacebar. Was this specifically for this video or have you had some sort of epiphany? :D
I've always used all ten fingers for my keyboards :p . The thumb thing is something I'm getting more used to, though xD .
I love how silenced mx/alps style switches and topre switches have this 'watery' sound... clicks and clacks often are too harsh for me.
Request: will you seperately press the shift, enter, backspace and other larger keys on your next typing test, I'd really love to hear them :)
The reason you'd buy this model rather than the other nodels is the low sound this keyboard makes while using it, while still having a feel similar to better mechanical keyboards. Dissapointed this review didn't really mention it or compare it, I'm pondering this or a matias (tenkeyless) as I want the quitest keyboard for office work that still lets me type fast/accurately/etc.
Obviously if sound is the primary concern you wouldn't get this model or at least not use it stock. I do have a video like that in the works actually, but it's faced a few setbacks.
@@Chyrosran22 I'm a bit confused, the topre realforce is supposed to be one of the quitest options you can buy that still has a decent feel. Or maybe that's just the quiet model?
m.th-cam.com/video/wmGt9eEfN0w/w-d-xo.html
While I'm not a Topre nutjob, I do love mine and use it regularly. Nothing else I have sounds or feels quite like it and I find everything about it pleasant, though mine isn't as white as I'd like. More of the old putty color, which is nostalgic but unattractive with my other gear. I wish Topre made the black keyboards with white lettering.
A good rubber dome is ways better than a crappy or even half-decent mechy.
The issue is good rubber domes are quite rare.
I've never understood people who go TKL or lower. Then again, I've never really been able to use the top row numbers while I'm typing and prefer to use the numpad for that sort of thing.
What about Plum Electro-capacitive keyboards? Are there any Topre clones like for Cherry clones?
They are basically Topre clones from what I understood, but I don't own any myself.
I believe they use very light and not so tactile 35g domes, but you can get a pack of BKE Redux domes if you wish which are really really tactile. RC930 and Plum87 are listed as compatible with them. I want to try and get a cheap Topre clone keyboard at some point, I often tend to like really light switches so I might get on well with a Plum board.
GurtTarctor Will be ever be able to see sub 100€ Topre clones? Atm i have a Rantopad Mxx (Gateron Red) paid 45€, i also tried keyboards with Outemu blue switches (is worse than a Razer Green, a Gateron Blue or a Cherry Blue IMO, IDK why but i find the Outemu's sound and feel pretty unpleasant), Romer G, Razer switches and Cherry switches
Cheap Gateron boards are a pretty solid buy, I had a Plum 75% board from Aliexpress that had Gateron Red switches and decent PBT caps, quite cheap too. Not sure about getting the clones cheap though, does seem like they can be around that price, just a case of getting a good rate of delivery to where you are. I would definitely recommend checking out the Mechmarket reddit for good deals on unwanted keyboards - www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/search?q=%5BEU%5D%20Plum&restrict_sr=1
I have a Royal Kludge RC930-87 keyboard (that I'm typing on rn). I bought it while in China for under 100 USD. Unfortunately, I accidentally got the 35g instead of the 45g, so it is a pretty light board to type on, and most places only sell it in the 35g and 45g variants (even though they are sometimes listed as "45g" and "55g"). Let me know if you have any questions.
Where can you find coloured keys for the Realforce 104U in Europe?
I've been trying to build a Realforce Space Cadet for ages :(
Technically you could just dye them. PBT lends itself reasonably well to dyeing. Of course, the lettering will still be dark.
I'll look around for dying methods then, and this whole project of mine promises to be Arts&Crafts-y...
Thanks for the reply, and thanks for an excellent video.
Have you done the reviews of Topre clones like Niz Plum switches? If not then please do it. I read about them and find it interesting.
Out of curiosity, why the air quotes when you say "mechanical" keyboard? At 7:30 it sounds like you are talking about all "mechanical" keyboards and still using the air quotes. Genuinely curious
You should probably check out his 'what is a mechanical switch' video. The point being there is no real definition of what makes a switch 'mechanical'.
well, it is made in Japan, so that's a plus. I did however go with the NIZ board, it feels amazing, love the thock sound, more pleasant than the realforce board.and a little cheaper.
The weakest fingers on your hands are not pinkies but ring fingers, so the "varied forces "design is not scientific or ergonomic at all.
Mr. Nobody is there any source that you can provide to such claim? Sounds counterintuitive to me
Ask anyone who has been trained on playing any musical instruments involving the using of fingers, you will be told so, I myself play piano, believe me I know alot about fingers.
@@mr.nobody6829 ok finger expert name more than 5 fingers
As guitarist, yeah - this is usually considered to be the case and is one of the things that puts me off the Realforce concept - the ring finger isn't stronger than the little/pinkie finger.
I actually have the NIZ Plum Topre clone board with the optional springs set only under the index and middle finger keys, kind of approximating the Realforce idea but acknowledging the weakness of the ring finger. After experimenting a little with the springs this seems the most balanced to me. But I guess individual differences come into play too.
This is the only keyboard that made in Japan! So many Manufacturers are quillty with made in China quality even $150 Corsair K95 RGB are made in China.
HHKB is made in Japan as well.
Isn’t filco also made in japan?
@@paianis on yeah that one too
by the way I just bought a Japanese layout Topre Realforce 106UB I can’t wait to try it
@@vcxz4009 made in Taiwan
I like that you mentioned my comment about :BTC: dome with slider "actuating before bottoming out"... and yeah, I guess saying that it feels like it acctuates instead of saying it actually does is much more correct.
I also broke the spacebar stabilizer in my :BTC: 5140 so I will have to look for boards with these switches yet again... fuck. But I guess it's a good reason to find one without windows keys (I am used to it and I'd go as far as saying that I actually prefer to use winkeyless boards because I can locate the right shift better and I use right shift + insert / delete cluster to control music playback and volume).
Why does the Realforce RGB get to carry the Realforce name? Doesn't that keyboard have uniform weighting on all the keys?
I want this keyboard, and a white/yellowish case to go along with it.
My opinions on Topre have never felt so validated in my life.
this strange weight distribution makes me wonder how hard do you think it'd be to get used to inverse of the shown as opposed to having weaker keys where weaker fingers go having the stronger ones there to help some of those less used fingers.
Notably i use thumb, index and middle fingers to type cause i am lazy fucker and cant do proper 10 finger typing so it wouldn't work for me.
During my last contract I used to bash hard on very similar HP keyboard, but it was because of rage towards the really slow standard issue computer on the other end of the keyboard cable.
Kamil Szabo, I hate those HP keyboards with a passion. I too used bash on them out of frustration with slow corporate PCs and when key presses on the older ones would fail to register (probably due to everyone bashing on them). Sadly we were barred from using personal keyboards due to some undefined security risk.
Weren't we colleagues at some point? :D I was using my own keyboard too (it was not that good, but I did not know this channel that time so I did not know any better - Logitech k810) and then they forbid all peripherals. Though my HP keyboard was new, and I think it registered every time.
Have you tried putting the btc domes in the real force to make it capacitive?
They also already have conductive pads in them, which would be in the way.
BTC's work with conductive pads on the PCB, not capsense ones.
love the Topre, yet is impossible to find one for a reasonable price.
My Hama uRAGE Illuminated is one of my favorite keyboards... Since it worn out a bit athe keys neraly have no resistance after you hit them. I'm also very heavy handed so... It works and feels good to type on for hours. Ruber dome can "not shit" if it is made right.
Umm there is actually a unoficial defination of mechanical keyboards: that it uses a spring and so I guess mechanical force? to determine how much umpf needed to press down., and that's pretty much it. It was initiall just a easy nothing burger way to help destinguish between good ol fationed regular keyboards (now called rubber dome) vs what we didn't know as cherry mx and it's now many clones. I guess it just stayed around. But other wise. yes as long as you like the feel first of the keyboard...that's mostly what matters...sort of: mechanical keyboards have a neet thing these days of 'N'-key roll over..that unoficial standard means that in the context of highspeed highpresicion typing(gaming usually, but can be other things): can you press all of those keys at once? or does theyboard soft lock ergo not know what the hell the next button is, or even crash.
Hello, have you got any plans to check out the new Hako royal clear switch? It's a collaboration between novelkeys and input club, and it's an excellent improvement over standard hako switches. Very tactile, but soft and rounded feeling. I've got some, and they're awesome. You may like them a lot.
Great video. I learned a lot.
If you like sharper tactility you should try BKE redux domes.
I already have! :)
Chyrosran22 what's your opinion on them? I currently have lights in my fc660c and I have yet to find something that can beat the tactile feel.
They feel much snappier, quite close to the way BTC dome with slider feel. I my opinion it's definitely an upgrade, but if you like the rounded feel on Topre, then you won't like it.
They're also $70 unless you have the voice of a Greek god and run a youtube channel reviewing keyboards ;) I've just picked up a model F for that much, shipped (gets here in a few hours, in fact). Might just be a tad better value than a hundred rubber nipples ;)
I rocked that Packard Bell keyboard for well over a decade. Packard Hell might have shot themselves in the foot with their crap computer quality, but fuck if that keyboard wasn't something decently nice in an era where many keyboards made you regret owning fingers. I can't remember why I stopped using it, but i'm pretty sure it was simply because the computer I upgraded to at the time finally dropped PS/2 ports and the dinky little converter I had on hand didn't work with it.
I don't know why, I've been really interested in Topre boards lately, after watching a typing video of someone on a Norbaforce, and considering that it's aimed mostly for typists - I don't really game all that much.
But that price tag though...plus I don't really know if I'd be into rounded-out or sharp tactility.
how do you get those little keychains? i feel like they’d be fun to fool around with
So what is touch typing exactly? Is that typing using the home keys?? Because I haven't done that since highschool. I was never really good at it, but I somehow managed to learn how to type without looking over the years.
I've carried some bad habbits from using those cheap rubber domes that I tend to mash my mechanical keys on my 101W. Wish I had switched to quality products earlier.
As an unintentional hipster, I used to write the first draft of my high school essays on a 1960s Smith Corona manual portable typewriter. Bottoming out is what you had to do on such a beast. If you didn't press the keys with all your might, then the strikers wouldn't push through the ink and onto the paper properly. This means the light touch activation of modern keyboards is a new thing.
I used to have a heavy hand also, using strong keys like the cherry mx clears helped me controlling that and now I can type in much lighter keyboards without bottoming out
Lol, the name "variable-weight" led me to believe the switches had some sort of technology to dynamically adjust their actuation force or other such nonsense.
And now they exist .... Steelseries Apex Pro 😏
NextLOLz actuation force != actuation point
I'm not sure if people have mentioned them (pretty sure they have) but I think you should try to see if you can try them BKE Redux domes, I heard they're supposedly great and much better than stock topre
Tom's Hardware you say? They were the one the put me on the path of the mechanical keyboards before it actually was a popular "gaming thing". And yeah, I am being a keyboard hipster...
What about reviewing the new Razer Opto Mechanical Switches? I know u don't review gaming crap, but the switches seems to be a huge improvement.
I'm quite interested in them. If I get one, I'll definitely be doing a review of them, at least.
I think the shape of the dome has more impact on key feel than the "quality" of the rubber they're made of. Of course if you're going to make them out of cheese it's not going to work but good enough is often good enough I think. One thing you could do if you were building a switch like that, since it's basically analog, is to build in some hysteresis, like in a Cherry MX Blue, or a buckling spring. Have they done that here or is that not a thing?
I would assume so. I can't make it flicker by hovering over the actuation point, at least.
I'm not sure but I think it might be something programmed into the firmware, I guess it wouldn't be too difficult for them to have done that. I've raised my actuation point a little with the Hasu controller on my FC660C, to match the BKE domes more closely, and I'm pretty sure there's some automatic hysteresis going on as I never notice the slightest bit of chatter. Joyful.
Ah I've just found this post by Hasu himself over on Deskthority -
"Topre makes hysteresis by changing threshold of sensor chip TP1684/1683, which has two different thresholds for each down and up stroke. Keyboard controller firmware controls the threshold depending on key state(down or up stroke).
On Topre key sense value changes almost linearly, you would have teribble chatter without hysteresis. I can't refer to any exact numbers or graph, but I won't say Topre hysteresis is very small in comparison with other mechanical switches like alps cherry .
Meanwhile capacitance changes drastically and undetermined state can't retain long due to buckling spring mechanism. I'm not sure IBM capacitive sense internals but they won't need hysteresis in controller firmware and sensor chip unless key matrix is scanned in very fast rate. In other words hysteresis of IBM comes purely from bucking spring mechanically.
This is my research log on geekhack.
geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76...msg1894368"
So there we go! :D
I would love to do the extra outer suport spring mod to the Topre 55g I'm about to buy as well as adding the BKE Redux domes to it... please, any idea where can I buy both or at least which area the outer spring (used in Topre's space bar) specs and general hardware part number? Thank you so very much for the help, appreciate it : )
Where does this "hatche" for "H" come from? never heard anyone else pronounce it like that
Will you ever review a modern split keyboard?
Well... vintage Model M's are incredibly overpriced here in Sweden so a used Realforce might actually be cheaper.
Findecanor there is a scandinavian ISO model m for sale on DT for 60€
At least Commodore Amiga keyboard and computer are more common there though.
7:34 what the genuine heck was wrong with whoever designed the ] and return keys of that Zenith keyboard?