Topre Type Heaven review (Topre 45 g capacitive)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Skip to 7:30 for a typing demonstration.
Today we look at kind of the Topre underdog - the Type Heaven! Cheaper than the Realforce and HHKB, it's an interesting product of its own. Hope you enjoy the video! :)
My keyboard reviews: bit.ly/1TbOtft
My switch teardowns: bit.ly/2C1QGHz
My TOP X videos: bit.ly/2FmpZfd
My XL typing demos: bit.ly/2OoAW3w
My tutorials and featurettes: bit.ly/2OrkLUh
My unboxing videos: bit.ly/2TSrr0m
I'm Thomas and I do videos and reviews on mechanical keyboards ranging from the most sickening modern RGB gaming keyboards to vintage hardware relics, or sometimes keycaps or keyswitches ranging from Cherry MX to Alps SKCM to IBM buckling springs and anything in between.
Follow me on Twitter for updates on my keyboard videos! / chyrosran22
The practice sentence was: "Hello my name is Thomas and I'm typing on a Topre Type Heaven right now. This keyboard really isn't bad at all - I'm surprised by how well it's built actually. But it still costs too much!" - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Here's an idea: Top 10 best switches still in production in 2019
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
"economy alternative"
Not anymore lmao
I have it, it's a solid board as Thomas said. Using it daily at work.
What really made it shine for me:
-Lubed all the keys
-Added different key stems from kbdfans to support cherry mx keys
-added sound dampening rings to each stem
-added sound dampening foam between pcb and back of the case
-a set of thick custom pbt keycaps
Result is a quiet yet really smooth board. Personally I love the design aesthetic of this board, hence why I went for it over Realforce + 45g universal switches are (imo) better.
Great keyboard, you can't go wrong with it.
how dafuq do you lube rubber domes
@@Aggrofool You don't lube the dome, you lube the stem and its housing.
Which lube did you use on the sliders?
@@VladiDusil Tribosys 3204
Biggest advantage of Realforce over Type Heaven is that you can get the Realforce in TKL.
TKL realforce with cherry mount would just be end game ..... hmmmm to i sacrifice my novatouch for it ? Hmmm
no, I would say it's the ability to be a makeshift bludgeon in case of burglary
Great to see another Topre board reviewed. The price of Topre keyboards are indeed "out there", but at least for me the price isn't part of the appeal. It's just that I like the sound and keyfeel and I can't get precisely that from other comparable (= rubber dome) keyboards. So if it costs 200€, then that's the way it is.
Your voice is just as an asmr as the typing demo.
the typing demo sounds like a logitech k120
you topre people are delusional
$150 is low cost?? (Laughs in custom keyboard)
*laughs in norbauer and RAMA*
*laughs in beamspring*
*laughs in Leopold FC980M that I bought for like 110 euros*
*laughs in Optimus Maximus*
laughs in keycult
Topre isn't exciting, but it's awfully refined and never out of place. It does make other switches feel rather crude, though.
It's like a Lexus -- smooth, quiet, refined, but not exciting... yet it kind of makes those more "fun" cars feel rough, loud, uncomfortable, and tiresome.
Calling Topre overpriced and comparing it to Apple?
That's a like from me.
Bough a TopreRealforce Ivory 55gram and I do not want to use Cherry MX again lol.
As someone who has a pretty light typing style, where I will naturally try to bottom out with as little force as possible or not at all, the capacitive Topre switches are superior to all the more modern Cherry-style switches that I've tried. The issue with electrical-contact mechanisms in switches is that chattering is always a possibility, the debounce in a board's firmware can help but it's really not an ideal solution, and even one double press in a few hundred presses is really annoying. The hysteresis that is set within the controller of Topre keyboards makes chattering basically impossible, that marketing bulletpoint is no bullshit.
For most people who seem to have a heavier typing style this probably doesn't matter, as you are consistently hitting the keys down so hard that there's no hesitation in the electrical mechanism to actuate. For me though it's really hard to go back to other switches, they just are never as reliable for typing or feel as solid.
So this is why I would take slight issue with the "it's just a rubber dome" thing, because clearly the capacitive sensing mechanism seperates it from a typical membrane board, and from typical discrete mechanical switches, it's clearly an objectively better way to design a keyboard switch than either, at least for typing. It would be pretty interesting to know how the manufacture costs compare against a similarly well built keyboard that uses a traditional membrane + rubber dome setup. Is there something inherently more expensive about capacitive PCBs?
Have you thought about the modern ibm model f?
45g Topre switch feels heavier than a 45g cherry mx switch.
You should try out the Chinese Topre clones like the "Plum 87EC(S).YT 30gf", yep it's a 30g switch with built-in hypersphere rings. I can tell you that I sold my RealForce RGB to use one these, which costs around $50 USD (If you happen to know a friend that can buy it from Taobao).
You should give the NIZ Plum Topre clone keyboard a shot - I almost find it better than a Realforce and even quieter than any Topre board. Even bump the rubber dome weight up for a snappier feel (55g)
for what? they all sound like typing on a k120
@@coffee838 don’t worry moved onto a realforce anyways haha
@@sad_lee so in the end the clone wasn't good enough eh?
@@TheMasterofComment it’s not that is wasn’t good. I have now had the chance to flip between the two, the Niz and a silent real force. From my experience, you’re gonna get 90% of the way there with a topre clone, 30g is far too light for stock weighting and there are lots of typos when going fast, there is a much different sound with the two, the Niz wins here stock even against the silent topre, but after lubing and some landing pads, the topre board far exceeded the feeling and quietness. I also replaced the real force domes with a mix of BKE ultra-lights for the alphas and lights for the rest and that just pushes it even further in feeling.
Idk I would say the Niz is very very close but there is a reason to pay $$$ I have found for sure.
A huge downside to the Niz is that the mounts for screws are plastic and I have had 2 break so far, at this point I cannot take it apart and continue to mod it in fear of not having enough screw holes to hold the pcb down against the plate if more break.
Both keyboards are going to absolutely last years, they will most likely outlast your time with it since most people likely change things up anyways.
It weighs 19.6K grains. Thanks me later, Americans.
Grains of barley or grains of wheat?
@@Chyrosran22 the unit converter just said grain. I tired stone and it said 0.2
@@Shkalim you Jewish? בוקר טוב
I think a lot of people assume that PBT being resistant to shining up means that they'll never lose texture, and then spend their days in mild denial when they feel the slight reduction in texture after a few months. PBT's will still wear down, just a lot slower than ABS. This is why I made sure my first set of aftermarket PBT caps was this SA profile dye-sub set by Akko called the Steam Engine that cost me about US$50, which is a fraction of what I'd be paying for "original" Signature Plastics or MaxKey SA caps. A nice middle finger to these price gouging companies that keep SA prices up by keeping their production artificially low with endless custom colorwaves, and still cheaper than a lot of premium brand PBT full-size sets out there that'll still end up wearing down little by little over years of use anyway. The color probably isn't for everyone, and they're obviously not going to be as thick and deep-sounding as doubleshots, but it's a nice win-win for me on both fronts of the overpriced keycaps market.
Akko profiles are more to my liking with a deeper dish anyway. And the clear pc ones are cool
Those black black keycaps look so cool though...
I've used the Type Heaven with APS caps, it wears out very quickly and feels slippery after a while... considering how hard it is to get replacement caps, I'd say its worth paying more for Realforce version.
Joining the mithril key cap group buy right now!
NGL, the Topre 45g force curve looks... underwhelming
Ye I was also surprised, forgot that the overall tactility was that low on those
Although they feel more tactile but that might depend how fast you press them. I would say slowly and fast pressing a switch can change keyfeel completly.
I have an HHKB Topre board and another board with Holy Pandas. Trust me, Topre is tactile, but in a different way.
Best way to describe it is the faster and harder you slam on your keys, the more obvious the tactile bump is. The slower you press, the more “round” it feels.
Rocking the Realforce 55g TKL right now.
Pretty good spacebar relative to some topre boards too. The HHKB for instance is stupidly loud.
Hhkb’s spacebar has a pretty much unfixable rattle unfortunately
@@memebrother7083 like how it that acceptable, I don't get it.
Since the stiffness is determined by the work done to press the key, we should be reporting topre stiffness in British thermal units
"[keyboard communities] attribute near-mythical abilities to PBT keycaps"
Yet pretty much every expensive keycap set is made out of ABS. GMK, SP (responsible for 90% of SA sets), etc.
Not that people type on the bloody things most of the time, or sometimes buy whatever shiny set (heh, nice pun) that comes out every two months and switches to them.
Nah man, you should see what happens when some SAU hits the market :p .
@@Chyrosran22 Heeeh I think that's moreso due to Cherry PBT being rather extremely rare than any real value being put on the PBT itself.
That being said it is quite staggering to me that people put hundreds of dollar on ABS sets that are unusable (for me) after a month or two, but that's another story (clarification after taking a shower, I'm purely talking about matte and rough ABS sets, I understand that a lot of people like the silky smooth aspect of ABS).
Very nice. Love the classic 90s looks.
Your Australian accent is atrocious. Please do more of it!
Also lol @ "cheapre", I see whatcha did there :)
I definitely don't need this *dying inside because I want this*
shape realforce owner here. Topre switches are nice but they’re not even the best. I was a tactile guy until trying lubed tealios, which sound like topre but are way better to type on.
Not that topre isn’t nice but it’s nothing to get excited about
“I dont need it, I dont need it.”
“I NEEEED ITTTTTT”
Could you please consider covering your arms and wrists with suit sleeves and cufflinks so they match your voice?
No, I hate suits :p . Too hot!
You've mentioned the roundness of topre and that there are mechanical topre-feeling keyboards. I'd like a rounded key feel but prefer bottoming out on plastic than on rubber. Which mechanical switches do you think do the rounded feel best?
TBF bottoming out on Topre is nothing like how most rubber dome boards feel, there's really no mushiness whatsoever and the impact is actually pretty solid. The downstroke sound of the key is well dampened by the rubber, but feel is not negatively affected for me at least.
@@GurtTarctor I have tried a topre board, still a bit mushy imo. It's the best keyboard I've typed on, I just want to look at alternatives before I drop big money on a board.
ITW magnetic valve, Alps SKCM Neon Green
@@Chyrosran22 Thanks for the recommendation, I looked at your Project L video. Is there anything that's topre-like without being impossible to find?
@@Zentennen It's not easy! xD The only things I can think of are also rubber dome-based, or at least buckling rubber sleeve.
Isn't the Type Heaven discontinued now?
Hmm, I was told by many that the Type Heaven is a garbage Topre board when I first started thinking about getting a Topre board. The feedback I got was so negative in fact I opted for a Leopold 660C as my first Topre board. Although seeing your video I believe I was lead astray by Topre elitiests. Now that I am much more versed on MKBs I agree with your assessment of the Type Heaven, a solid board with subpar keycaps held back by the fact it is the lowest product in the Topre stack. I may actually look into getting one again after seeing this video since I do need a modern full sized board. Anyways great review as always, keep up the great work Chyros!
*really not disappointing* I love these remarks
If PBT keycaps + rubber-domes + build quality are the priority and on a budget, look into a "I-Rocks Crystal". The cheapest they go for is $8 (USD). A more expensive alternative would be a "Turtle Beach - Impact 100" which appear to have significantly better keycaps and a big ass enter key, but most of the remaining ones available are $40.
6:10 holy shit those black on black key caps look FUCKING amazing
Interesting difference in the sound. The Type Heaven sounds identical to the Realforce RGB keyboard I have, which also has the uniform 45G weighting
Had mine for over 2 years, it's the envy of everyone in the office
fc980c?
try putting the keycaps of the realforce to the type heaven and check if sound changes pls
I have both, and the Type Heaven feels a bit... snappier? Neither is better than the other, just... different.
And I always felt that sloping curve at the top looked sexy =P
The segment on the switches is basically the perfect clip to show a layperson how ridiculous and technical being a mechhead can get
topre keyboards be like: what if rubber domes were expensive as fuck
Maybe one day you'll get a NIZ capacitive to compare against. Always though it was interesting it having MX compatible keycaps and have been offering boards with Bluetooth and RGB for a while.
I think the appeal of being overpriced is really the reason why Topre gets mocked in the community. The worst example for me has to be the HHKB. If Topre as a specific switch type is really what makes the keyboards special and worth the price to enthusiasts, how can anyone justify spending the price of a full-size RealForce for a tiny 60% with barely any of those special switches on it?
@Ziv Zulander Of course, that's considering whether actual hackers are still the majority of people who buy the HHKB. In practice, Topre boards, and most that I see out there are HHKB's, are mostly being bought by keyboard enthusiasts who just happen to have deep enough pockets to afford the "enterprise-grade" price. It's the same way that Apple products may be superficially targetted to and actually preferred by certain creative professionals, but don't try telling me that the majority of their computer sales aren't to ordinary people who just see it as a status symbol to carry around and use a MacBook. You really shouldn't be surprised in either case that they have a pretentious reputation.
Can't you get MX-stem keycaps for the TYPE HEAVEN, though? Isn't the stem like the Niz Plum? So, PBT/ABS not a real distinction... *but maybe I'm wrong!*
are Niz keyboards good?, or are there other alternatives? I wanna try capacitive but the price plus the shipping of topre's to where I am kill me...
I have a NIZ 87 key which I really love, though I haven't tried Topre yet, so I cannot compare.
I like the clips on the Realforce. They allow to open the case very easily without any tool (not even a guitar pick). I consider that a plus for maintenance.
well, they can break off easily
I'm far more worried about breaking something when I have to insert a knife and use it as a pry bar.
I wonder if the BKE Redux domes would help with the thockness of the Type Heaven?
Now you just need to get a Fujitsu LibreTouch to compare against.
When I bought a realforce a few years ago I was really annoyed there was no ISO layout option. I got the JIS one but the tiny space bar still annoys me
I will say that I like the gummy thock of unsilenced Topres a lot better than the scratchy sound they have nowadays.
I just put in a set of Hako Clears on my Glorious modular keyboard, which are supposed to feel like Topres. I've never seen or tried a Topre, but I have my doubts they feel like this (like stiff wooden blocks). If only the beautiful and wonderful Natalie could send another Type Heaven my way.... ;-)
BTW, would you be interested in a recording of my modified Matias board for your Alps care videos? I used wet lube on them, and while I was screamed down at for doing it, I really like the sound and feel of them (though I definitely put too much on some switches).
I have a FC660C, a 55g Norbaforce and recently bought a switch tester which has Hako Clear in it, and they don't feel anything like any of them. In fact I'd much rather use something like Creams (55g linear) or Violets (50g tactile).
There are some MX switches that feel at least vaguely Topre-like (Zealios come to mind), but Hakos are soooooo far from it that I'm absolutely baffled over why anyone would even make that comparison.
@Natalie T I've never met her, but presumably she's made of rainbows and sunshine when she gives away pricey keyboards. ;-)
@@kevadu Two reviewers did (though one might have been quoting the other). They're not awful, just not the smooth, slightly tactile experience I was hoping for. Opinions on Zealios V2 seem to range a fair bit. I was thinking of going back to tactiles with Box Pinks.
Update: replaced MT3 caps with thin PBT caps and the feeling is much improved.
Rubber Dome when done well is indeed amazing. People confuse rubber domes with membrane keyboards, those are the real bad ones: membrane keyboards. Good tactile rubber domes with POM sliders feel as great as any good mechanical switch.
There actually is a rubber dome over membrane keyboard with POM sliders that's pretty good for the price. Its called the "I-Rocks Crystal". The cheapest I could find one was $8 (USD). It also has PBT keycaps and weights 1200 grams. Its not compatible with Macs hence the low review scores on say Amazon US. (There was a white model that people kept buying to match with their Mac systems)
Low key wish more people knew about it since it just blows things like all of Razer's rubber-dome-over-membrane offerings out of the water. Though with the price taken into account, the blast is more like a nuke instead. XD
The sliders are "+ mount". So you could buy it just for the PBT keycaps and put it on something else.
I agree that distinction alone is worth noting. Some of the better dome with slider keyboards are also membrane-less. There are still good membrane keyboards, though.
For $150 I'll buy a Unicomp and get a real mech switch and have $70 to spare. Or I'd pick up a Corsair Strafe MX Silent MK.2 and get backlighting, media controls, macros, and a 40M driver -- and still have a few Hamiltons left over.
I hope NiZ will send you a EC clone keyboard to review. They're really nice and cheap alternative to Topre, plus they sound even quieter and better than Topre.
That's true that they are more quite since all niz boards have silencing rings.
I also had a breakthrough and created yet another switch combo, btw. If you stretch a spring from a Matias click switch, then compress it, and then load it into a Kailh Box Jade switch, you get a really bouncy, snappy, light clicky switch unlike anything on the market. If anyone tries this, I'd love to hear your feedback. (I realize you could just buy springs off Sprit, but the stretching does something to the return spring that makes it special. Not sure what.)
Also, a bit of news: really nice $20 MX compatible PBT DS SA keycap set on Amazon Prime now. Got these today and they're really nice. www.amazon.com/dp/B07VN7PNQL/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_rgnyDbPH0NAGR
Mythical or not, if you want your keycaps to remain textured, you have no choice but to avoid ABS, and PBT is the only popular alternative.
Not true, you can sandblast doubleshots!
@@Chyrosran22 Last time I checked, PBT keycaps were cheaper than sandblasting equipment.
@@aozora7 use somebody else's :p
Hey, if you have a IBM model m 3rd gen, could you please make a video about the waterproof ability.
Yeah not gonna actually test that xD .
@@Chyrosran22 Alright. Thanks for reacting.
I personally like that curved back bit, but style is of course subjective. What's odd is that printing looks worse than the absolutely super cheapy printing on my Logitech keyboards seems to last longer. Not sure what they count as but looks and feels like little raised sticker kinda things on each legend, with a clear border around 'em.
Do a NIZ capacitive keyboard some time.
not overpriced enough, well said
hi thomas! what are your opinions on topre knock off boards? (i.e. niz plum, abko k935p)
Never tried any of them!
Interesting point at the end. Although I'm sure they'll never admit it, I can totally see Topre keyboards being used as status symbols the way Apple yuppies use iMacs and iPhones, despite more feature-rich, cheaper and sturdier being available outside their fetish brand.
Considering voth these keyboards are in the same price bracket as custom jobs and optical keyboards, I can't see any other justification for paying that much for a rubber some board.
Can you please review any Akko X Ducky keyboard? Preferably the 3108 full size?
You should send him one to test
I've been using topre for months now and its definitely my favourite switch for general use even gaming ( though aint really good for rhythm games because its hard to get used with them)
for those i prefer a good batch of vintage blacks actually
not liking the looks of the type heaven and the switches do sound a bit more scratchy? because they're lighter sounding but still good!
Honestly after trying topre it is one of those things I feel a need for, I don't know why but specifically topre acts kinda like a drug for me, the more I try it out the more I want of it
@@mangehd6262 you got topre too? amazing or did you just get to try it out
@@ima44 I got to try it out at a couple meetups and fuck I really want to buy a board now
"Not overpriced enough"
Not sure if that's only me, but the labels on those Enter and Backspace keys look awful to me on both boards. Additionally for the white one, it has inconsistent spacing between the words in Print Screen and Num Lock keys compared to the Scroll Lock or Page Up/Down keys. In my mind I almost hear a screeching Chyrosran22 voice shouting "This is unacceptaboooooool!" ;)
Another minus: I have not seen a single type heaven in ISO layout :(
If anyone sees one I would immediately revoke my minus.
Comment in hope someone finds one.
Nice, perfect way to wake up
I generally don't like plastic tabs, but I have to admit that the ones on the topre are amazig, you just insert a finger nail in the socket and they snap out without damage! Probably it's even more durable than screws, certainly it's not even remotely similar to those things that you need to insert a screwdriver in between the two pieces ruining the whole edge!
Not... First. XD
Thanks for the video!
(Say "good eye might" - you'll sound instantly Aussie.) 😆
I don't want my keycaps to go shiny, so PBT for me.
I don't need it....I don't need it...
Those subtle jabs have been noted... Topre Hater.
I don't hate Topre at all, I just find it difficult to justify their cost.
@@Chyrosran22 I should have added an "lol" at the end of that comment. I don't really believe you are a topre hater lol I was just joking. I love your videos. You're the reason why I need a beam spring in my life. Some day it will be mine lol
@@MrGreenCheddar Never stop looking! You never know what you're going to get! ;)
The true heaven would be if they sold even cheaper keyboards without membranes at all, so I can put in a baggy of BKE REDUX^^
and how, most i ever spent on a keyboard all in was a used realforce RGB 108 for $120usd+$20 pudding caps, $20 for some kbd rings and $50 worth of Bke light domes a year and a half ago. Felt like I was making a mistake spending near $220 for a keyboard before it came together. After getting it all together?
Haven't, bought another board since and likely never will as long as as my BKE Realforce works. It's that close to my ideals for typing feel.
Did you mean rubber domes? Membranes are what the rubber domes rest on.
Rubber domes ≠ Membranes
Just wanted to check because its a very prevalent misconception to use the words interchangeably.
@@Spearra yes, thank you! I mixed the words up.
HHKB > everything
It's pretty arrogant to call Topre overpriced because it happens to use rubber domes. You know all too well it's not your regular rubber dome keyboard. And it's equally arrogant to claim the high price tag is what makes them appealing. I used to have rheumatic issues with my finger joints after using chiclet, rubber dome and mechanical keyboards (including Model M). After finally switching to Topre, I have yet to experience any pain from typing. So I really don't feel too sorry about paying premium for japanese work.
It costs twenty times as much as a run-of-the-mill rubber dome keyboard. Is it quite the same? No. But the numbers just don't add up.
Mind you, I've got three Topre keyboards.
@Ziv Zulander They didn't cost a fortune when they came out, they just cost a lot because they're old and in great demand. Alps never demanded 10x the cost of a Cherry board for them.
@@Chyrosran22 Their keyboards are no doubt more difficult to manufacture and Japanese labour has to be several times more expensive than Chinese. Besides that, they are profiting from their patents, branding and unique place in the market. I would consider Topre overpriced based on that, rather than the fact that it uses "cheap" rubber domes. It's just as silly as being all snobby about getting "cheap" springs in a Model M.
@@Chyrosran22 actually, "Topre capacitive key switches are a patented hybrid between a mechanical spring based switch, a rubber dome switch, and a capacitive sensor". so it is not "rubber-dome", it is hybrid dome-mechanical, which is more expensive to make (plus more expensive electronics no doubt to work with capacitive switches) than regular "mechanical". you'd better take a closer look at this thing before judging it and its price.
Muh rubber domes
hi, you buy this device?
No, this was a donation from a viewer.
I do like topre, because it's a 'safe bet' Most people will like topre, or at least not dislike it, it feels nice, sounds good, has n-key rollover and the boards usually look good. Is it a holy grail switch? Hell no. But it's, I found, one that doesn't get boring fast. It's like the bread of keyboard world.
Wait, did you call Topre just a rubber dome keyboard? That’s it. I’m not subscribed to your channel, so I subscribed and clicked on the bell icon just so I could disable notification and unsubscribe for that petulant remark. Have a good day, sir.
But it's just factual information 💀
@@BreadTeleporter002 I said HAVE A GOOD DAY
Mithril reference, noice.
::: hears price ::: turns off video
Try Niz
Drop x invyr holy panda review when
You should send him a batch to test
@@Aggrofool maybe when the 70 pack comes back in stock.
$160 for a rubber dome kb??? The fuck
My name Jeff
BTC dome over slider is the real economy topre board /s
It's not overpriced enough... LOL!
barely legible is a pro
Hey... I have that board(:
1st
Please don't do anymore accents, please.
0:22 come on Australians don’t sound like that
First