Three Variations of Party Leader PPK Pistols
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- Note: I goofed on a detail here; "DRGM" is a trademark designation, not something related to the party. Sorry!
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Today, courtesy of Tom from Legacy Collectibles, we are taking a look at "party leader" PPK pistols. There are three different versions of these, and we will look at all of them in sequence. They are highly valued in the collecting community, and also extremely easy to fake, making authentication quite difficult. I will give you as much information as I can to assist in this, and Tom is happy to help (free of charge) as well.
To see more about Legacy, check out their TH-cam channel:
/ @legacycollectibles
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704
For sale: Part Leader PPK, only fired once.
You are terrible.
Have a like
Ha
🤣
Cringe
Original grey matter splatter included.
“Party Supply Company” is a lot less fun in this context than usual.
LMFAO
That’s gold
Depends on your definition of fun, mate.
I beg to differ, sir, this one provides guns.
@@GeneralSeptemyet it also provided nazis, and it provided nazis with guns
"They didn't go to the Eastern Front." The Eastern Front did, however, come to them.
That gave me the chills.
🤣😂🤣👍
in soviet russia, the front come to YOU
@@Ari--d sorry, what Soviet Russia? I thought that went kaput 29 years ago. 😁 Guess bringing the front to people is not without consequences.
sadly
My mom always told me life would take me in strange directions..
* starts manufacturing 'fake' Nazi paraphernalia *
Top comment imo
a fool and his money are easily parted.
I’ll tan the leather for the holsters if you mold the grips...
@@dashingdave2665 some people just like collecting historical artifacts, whether or not they were used for bad or good purposes
@@dashingdave2665 It's no different than people collecting Soviet era stuff with the hammer and scycle iconography. Both ideologies led to human suffering on an industrial scale, even more so with the communist than the fascist. The main difference being, fascism is dead while communism continues to oppress, kill, and spread to this day.
The manual cover looks suprisingly modern.
I expected a custom manual cover for party leaders, but no
Really to me it looks very 1930s with the font and colors it's using.
Modern manuals aren't so flashy
@@darthbigred22 looks to me like some cheeseball nonsense you'd find at cabela's
The cleaning rod looks just like the one that came with my PPS M2
I thought the same thing. A color printed manual is most unusual. I have Leica camera manuals from the same era and they're all black & white. If the manual for Germany's best camera was B&W, it's surprising to see a color gun manual.
The reddish finish on the later guns actually looks quite nice to me.
Yup - I've never been a big fan of the traditionally considered "s00per d00per pretty" finishes of firearms, preferring more matte styling and more atypical colorings
Similarly, being a certified car nut, I've NEVER been a fan of chrome and polished metals either. There's specific instances of course, just like with firearms, but, generally, I've never been a "high shine" guy
RyTrapp0 So what you're saying is, you're a very dull guy?
@@svtirefire ...well, all my friends growing up all called me the "life of the party" guy, though I never expected my personality to lend me to being 'that guy'.
Could just be the alcohol though...
@Matthew Caughey Pretty much. Chrome & high polish makes for great accent features - but, entire items? Just garish and trashy
My next door neighbor has an RZM that his Dad brought back from WW2. It's almost immaculate. He has no idea it's worth so much. We always figured it was the Mint Luger made in 1914 his Dad also brought back which had some value.....Can't wait to tell him...not that he'd sell it though.
How did that experience go?
6:25
German: Ohne Signalstift
English: No loaded chamber indicator
Thank you, I just looked that up, you preceded me by ten minutes.
Simon Stoll: I wont even try to write that in finnish. 🤣
@@juhomaki-petaja Kuusi palaa. ;)
Thus illegal in California. Sorry Mr. Nazi party member.
Thus illegal in California. Sorry Mr. Nazi party member.
"Hmm, these grip panels are not Nazi enough."
Kyle Morgan You are not wrong. From what I can gather after reading several books on the Nazi party, letting other people know just HOW important you are was a priority. Just look at their uniforms with all the party symbols and rank insignia highly visible for all to see as proof of that belief.
@Roderick storey While the Mitchell and Webb sketch is very funny, the 'totenkopf' or skull and bones emblem of the SS originated back to the reign of Frederick the Great of Prussia during the 18th century and was used by the 5th Hussars as well as by the army of Bruswick-Wofenbuttel as their insignia and continued being used by the German military up through the first world war. It should also be mentioned that starting in WWII the US Marine Corps used a skull as an emblem for their Marine Raider units and skulls have been used in many other instances as symbols of military forces of many different countries. see: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_crossbones_(military)
@@colbunkmust Well stated. It is also worth mentioning that a large percentage of the officer class were Prussian in descent, and that being the case, would not have seen it as anything other than the use of a symbol that had been used in the past, similar to the Maltese cross for medals and emblems on a uniform.
@@pyry1948 how is it all over the place?
I do nazi enough swastikas around these weapons Hans.
Those would get you a pack of smokes or Hershey bar in July '45.
Surely one with the original box and materials would be worth at least two packs. A nice German pistol is one thing, a super fancy presentation one would be approaching "Saddam gold-plated AK"-level of coolness for a GI of that era.
James Bond's Pistol, The Deliverer in Fallout 4, basis for the Makarov. Such a figure this gun is.
And The makarov is a copy of The PPK The true pistole of 007
i know "basis for" isn't exactly wrong, but makarovs to me are more accurately described as "copies/clones of" the PPK imo, its virtually identical and honestly kinda worse in some ways (depending on how much you care about certain features on the walther)
"On proper Walther PPK swastification". Forgotten Weapons proceedings, Oct. 2019
As an admitted Waltherphile, I love anything to do with the PPK, so thanks for this video! Not that I see myself adding any of these luxury car priced pieces to my collection, LOL, but the history is fascinating!
My birthday gift to myself one year was a very nice .32 PPK made in 1967 (same year in which I was made). I followed this by finding (for an astoundingly low price) a "Dural" framed PPK made in 1945 with that late-war finish (or lack thereof) you showed. Tolerances on the wartime model are definitely looser than on the later post-war model (I still think it beats most of the late '80s Interarms versions), yet it is every bit as accurate as one would expect. Presumably due to it's time of manufacture and intended purpose, it is not a fan of softer US-produced .32acp ammo. If I put something like Geco produced rounds through it, however, it runs fine. It won't "jam" with lower powered stuff, the slide comes back far enough to extract the spent casing and load the new one, but not quite far enough to cock the hammer. Thus with, say, Winchester White Box or some such it's like having a DAO pistol. With hotter European ammo, however, it runs great. Of course, it's an OLD pistol with some historical significance and with an ALUMINUM frame so it doesn't get shot very much at all. The 1967 model, so far has shot fine with every type and brand of .32 acp ammo I've fired through it, JHP or JHP. There's just ... something ... a certain je ne sais quoi (or maybe I should say,
Ich weiß nicht ? :p ) about a Walther PPK, y'know? They were cool long before James Bond came about. :)
I would say "Ich weiß genau, it's a really reliable gun with amazing design"😂
@@vornamenachname989 - Damn Google Translate - failed me again. ;) 🤣
@@CeltKnight Nah, it's the right translation, I just said "I know exactly"😂
Another Waltherphile here too. Yes, these are way beyond my means.
As it turns out, my brother in law's father has an early model... They found out by watching your video...
Keep up the good work!!!
His name? Bormann, Chuck Bormann.
Strangely enough, I picked up a non-firing replica of the second variant in the mid '80s from a company called the Collector's Armory, here in the US. I was a big James Bond fan and this was the only replica PPK I could find. It won't chamber real ammo, but is all metal and designed so that when you pull the trigger, the slide goes back and a dummy shell is ejected, which I thought was really cool back then. I still have it.
I also have one how much are they worth?
There is also some very small air voids on the fake , i believe that is because its a resin process and they had air stuck in the mould while the real things i think back then they did more of a heat based bakelite process , either way especially on the logo there is no tiny bubbles while there is heaps on the fake, the fake im sure a moulding taken off the real thing but you will always loose some detail doing that
Bakelite is very hard to avoid getting bubbles since the polymerization process generates steam. In the 1930's this was well controlled and understood and was part of the quality control process. Parts were cured under very high pressure to avoid bubbles. Bubbles were cause for rejecting the parts.
100% correct...
Party supply authority:
attention! *blows kazoo*
FUN IS MANDATORY
Frosticles the Benificent died when I read this hahahahaha
The ppk pistol package looks damn fancy
Thats Because it was a box with art to show quality to his clients
Is it just me or is "eagle" the biggest difference? For me it looks like chest feathers are "pressed in" on fake ones.
I was noticing that as well, they don't seem as embossed, or shiny.
Inward on fake and outward on genuine. That’s what I was thinking.
He stated that in the video
The authentic black one looked like the eagle feathers were pressed in, but on the brown ones they do look outward.
Google Translate, translate "DRGM/Deutsches Reich Geschützte Marke" as "German Empire Protected Brand."
It means "Deutsche Reichs-Gebrauchsmuster" as far as i know as a german potato.
@@Kannietwo Exactly.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebrauchsmuster?wprov=sfla1
Kannietwo:
As a german potatoe?... selbstmitleid ist auch Mitleid oder wie soll ich das verstehen? 🤦🏽♂️😂
For some reason this reminds me of the magazine drives and rewards we used to have as kids
And now I have the image of the Nazis as evil girl scouts stuck in my head.
@@subduedreader5627 "Guten Morgan, would you like to buy some chokolat?" The jacked man in the tiny girlscout uniform asks.
@@TheOdst219 a fully grown man or a tiny man for the jacket
@@subduedreader5627 Hitler Youth was just boy/girl scouts taken to an extreme level.
@@joevidya And then there's the Soviet Scouts, the Young Pioneers, trained in use of vehicles including armored vehicles and rocks, also in hitchhiking with spoons rattling
Thank you for your time in making your content. Very much appreciated, good sir.
Thank you for the fantastic video, as usual.
I'm really looking forward to all the upcoming videos from this new (to us) auction company.
That little Walther tin is really neat.
The manual with those illustrations looks very modern.
It was kept in good condition. Manuals from the old west age and Victorian era would look similarly modern... were they to survive as well as this one.
@@planescaped I can vouch for that I have a few shot shell boxes from the early 1900's that are in amazing condition, the vibrant colours are quite gaudy by modern standards,real life wasnt black and white back then just the cameras
Joe Blow Doch: typisch Deutsch!
"Put that back the right way."
*puts it back the wrong way*
My son and I love your videos. Great job. Best wishes on continued good health, gun finds, and informative videos.
I really enjoy the amount of detail and research that you put unto your videos Ian.
Lots of Albrect Kind holsters are marked DRGM, regardless of party affiliation. It represents that design has national patent registration. The mark went into use in the early 1890s.
Ian at Legacy, another circle closed really been enjoying Toms channel too!
Such a beautiful handgun to look at, and what a joy for you to view and work with them, great video!
Rzm marking is like saying
"Officially licenced product "in todays speak
I was always wondering why James Bond would choose a PPK has his weapon of choice...
Could you maybe make a video on the history of James Bond guns?
Would be quite interesting, I think.
Bond originally used a .25ACP Beretta. There is quite the story about why Bond reluctantly went to a PPK in .32 ACP. In the books, his Beretta fails at an inopportune moment.
Ian: Hi Guys!
Day just got better
Just bought a 1935 RZM PPK, regrettably without holster, belt, or box, but still delighted with my purchase. Your video just reinforced my delight.
This was brilliant. So much knowledge... we are blessed!
Thank you!
Couple other indicators are that the grip screw goes from right to left on the authentic grip and vice versa on the fake. Not only are the feathers more 3-D, they're actually indents instead of an actual molded feather. Like the difference between pressed checkering and cut.
This is a James Bond show i'd watch
I think he's a black woman now 🙄
@@shatbad2960 fuck life sometimes
Shat Bad in transition now
Geheimagent 007- Janus Bonn in Kugelblitz! Stahlhart Spannung und Herzbebende Aktion!
@@kohinarec6580 Can you translate that from sauerkraut to hot dog please?
Excellent story.. Everything you need to know... The accessories and packaging are important indicators. Thank you.
What a fascinating niche in firearms collecting. Excellent video!
I think my grandfather might have had one of these. He collected a lot of WWII-era firearms, but the collection was sold after he passed.
06:25 The blue label "Ohne SIgnalstift" shows that it is a pistol without a loaded chamber indicator, here called in german "Signalstift" (a pin on the end, where the hammer is located)
No I am not looking to get one of these, but one day it may be nice to be able to afford to do so. However, I thoroughly enjoyed this video. You thoroughly discussed the various details and aspects of this niche within the vast offerings from Walther and their PPK. The PPK is just so iconic I will hopefully find a PPK to add to my own collection. I definitely would enjoy seeing more of these longer and more detailed videos. Great work Ian!
Great content as always, thanks Ian!
God, I want that middle one for my edc, but it would be frowned upon by both collectors and society.
In all fairness, most people will never see your EDC. It wouldn’t look good if you did use your gun in self defense though :/
Lmao ik this is 2 years old but this comment made me laugh, this has gotta be the worst gun for edc I've ever seen in our modern political climate lol, I'm picturing someone shooting a home intruder with this pistol and then 20 different news station reporting "local neo nazi guns down innocent minority with nazi handgun, more at 5."
If you want to see a good example of real vs. reproduction, there's a book named Nazi Regalia by Jack Pia.
It was printed in the 70's but it's the best photographic reference for anything from the NSDAP, et al.
Good video. I have an RZM PPK brought back by my grandfather. He also brought back a P38 among other items. Neither are shot any more due to their age and sentimental value.
Thanks for the video! Now I finally know what to look out for when casting fake PPK grips 😄
I didn't know James Bond was one of their party members...
I saw 4, very obvious to me, differences that you didn't mention. 1. Mold lines. 2. crisp edges and corners on on the inside. 3. ejector marks in the fakes (where the ejector pins push the finished part out of the mold). 4. surface finish (refectivity, and smoothness).. Other differences that would mean a very detailed examination are surface oxidation (how deep the patina is, if any). and what sort of material the grip is made of.
This is a fascinating video!. I'm going to watch this a couple more times.
Stunning. Well done to Tom as well by the way.
I realllyyy love walther x) their ppq's and m2s seem to me to be some of the best for their price.
"functionaries" - nice word, gonna pocket that one for later
Wow! Look at the condition of that box, fascinating stuff.
Holy crap. I would've never thought that Ian would be at my local collectors store.
Watching this a couple weeks after it came out, I almost passed out. I recognized that box instantly as my Great-Uncle with no exaggeration gas one sitting in the bottom of his gun safe next to a Lefecheux pinafore revolver. For the longest time I just thought it was a WW2 Walther PP. I may be mistaken as the last time I saw it I was 15 or 16 but damn if that box didn't immediately set off a red flag in my head. Mind, this uncle has told me numerous times he intends to pass on the majority of his collection to me as he never had kids. Best case scenario, I have one of these extremely cool PPKs in it's box. Worst case I still have a kick ass normal PPK added to my own collection.
Keep us updated! Best of luck to you
I noticed a difference that you did not point out. The two square ribs that run down the back of the grip on the inside, the bottom of them just above the exposed metal is rounded in all of the real ones, while square in the fakes, even the black ones.
Very, very well done and interesting! Thank-you!
Hey Ian, thanks so much for this video. Because of your information here I was able to authenticate and buy a first model in beautiful shape from a pawn shop.
Horse Hair was used to clean guns? I did not know that. That's interesting to know.
You would be surprised to see how durable it is. :)
I think it's Flax
PPK's are great!!
Very interesting and informative. Great vid, thanks.
Incredible package - precious: gun, belt, buckle and stamped holster.
Since Ian mentioned the shrinking numbers of WWII veterans, I would like to encourage everyone that is able to speak with a veteran about recording their wartime experiences. I know that there are limitations on being related to or knowing a WWII veteran, but time is swiftly running out on saving what they knew and saw. Forgotten Weapons used to occasionally have firearms related interviews, and InRangeTV has interviewed persons like Jim Sullivan ( who has worked with WWII designers like Bill Ruger ), so there is a precedent for something like this from Ian. One of the best ways to keep history relevant is to keep the personal "stories" from history in the public eye.
Thank you
williestyle35 - Well said. It’s a fact of life that WW2 will soon pass from living memory.
We'll be saying the same thing about Gulf War veterans some day, its the nature of time.
@Boyd Grandy Thank you for your service by the way. Same goes for the rest of 'em in your family.
Boyd Grandy , thank you so very much for your comment. (: I'm 48 and never served, but I wanted to point out this time is the last time we will have any chance to record and memorialize any veterans from WWII. Having that story of human connection to past events is often what turns casual interest into something more. I know our cold warriors and Vietnam vets are also aging, and they should be given all opportunities to share their stories. My grandfather was a Stateside paymaster ( enlisted ) during WWII. My father served as an inducted technical expert in the Signal Corps ( sound engineer working on radar ).
Thank you everyone for your replies, these are the best individual responses I've ever had to a comment I've posted on yt ( and I was lucky enough to comment with a user that had interviewed Eastern front WWII veterans ).
I’d love to own one of these
The PPK would be the pistol I’d carry if I had a pistol permit
Good video, I have modern wood party leader grips on my ppk/s. They look great, Walther has an interesting history! 👍
It never ceases to amaze me how people just have 10k to throw at a pistol, which you won’t even shoot 😜
Why not shoot it? It’s a pistol built for war not made of melted legos or whatever polymer is lol.
To expensive for me. Did they have party lackey pistols?
Stalking Horse I mean how much would it cost to get regular ppk grips reproduced in the nazi ones, I mean yeah your going to have a bunch of bullshit lawyer plot armor written on modern pistols but I’ll never understand why more historical military pistols aren’t made.
This is purely investment material. One of the reasons the rich get richer. This will only go up in value.
True , wish i had the money to invest in something which will only rise in value :)
Beautiful guns I wish I could afford one
amazing and thoroughly enjoyable history lesson!
Another well done, informative video. Thank you.
Is it just me or is there a difference in the outline of the eagle’s chest between the original NSDAP logo and the reproduction? In the original logo the outline seems to be trapezoid whereas the reproductions are much more rectangular.
I love Walther pistols so much...I love buying as many firearms as I can, but I've never been interested in going after a comprehensive collection of one particular pursuit; but I must confess that with unlimited monies, I'd be spending my days hunting down every Pp variant I could get...Thanks for showing us these; I find the regular red grips (no swstika ones) quite attractive.
Thanks for making this video Ian.
The honesty about the guns. scary history..... Forgotten Weapons!
Plastic grips like these are injection molded or extrusion molded and the coloration is random because the base material plastic and the dye are mixed while still solid ie.in granular or pellet form.Then melted and mixed and pressed or "injected "in the mold or through the extrusion nozzle.The mold or extrusion nozzle is what it is it has no bearing on the color striations or pattern.In high capacity operations there may be more than one mold and/or more than one machine therefore differences in appearance in regards to size ,shape or other physical features can vary,but coloration is beholden to the mixture ratios and/or dye lots,mixing speed,heat, or injection/extrusion pressure,and possibly sheen differences based on cooling.
I'm very impressed by the condition they are still in despite it being over 75 years since the end of the war and over 85 since production. Which is older than some peoples grandparents today.
Great 👍 video
A lot of expertise and knowledge to find out if it’s authenticity for sure.
Impressed they're willing to do that evaluation for free
"So, Helmut, what is it you do?"
"I purchase stuff for the nazi party. Like skulls for caps, lightning-pins for collars and vulture-emblem grips for discount pistols!"
"Ach so, but what is that little box with ampoules?"
"That's cyanide. Party officials can order it from this little borchure too."
Nice to see they sell stuff party leaders can really get some use out of!
@@voiceofraisin3778 "Party stuff" is the best stuff.
Wouldnt it be eagle grips not vulture grips?
@@tobiaspieringer1653 It would. I did it on purpose.
(Looks at various purchases) “Are we the baddies?”
It would be interesting to see if the chemical composition is different between the real and the fakes via spectography or similar methods, as well as whether there is any difference in appearance under UV and other lighting....
Or ir
😁
"Dating" the bakelite is probably doable, though cost prohibitive.
@@planescaped Yeah, that's why I wondered if you could see a difference under different wavelengths like UV or just point a spectrograph at it. Non-invasive testing that shouldn't be expensive.
Amazing stuff Ian.
In the 1960s, Japan manufactured a zillion kids' toy versions of this German PPK pistol. You loaded silver-painted tiny ball pellets into a chamber above the back barrel. A spring trigger shot out the silver pellets one at a time. Many of these toy PPK pistols were exported into the U.S.. I remember owning on two separate occasions, two of these toy PPKs. Of course back then, I had no idea these were toy reproductions of a Nazi Party pistol. Neither did my parents.
I mean it's tempting to get one but you'd almost be better off with a Clone or replica and maybe marking it as a clone so there is no confusion
Pretty sure I sold Legacy the black one a bit ago.
Just verified SN yup same gun
@@riley9x19 Do you ever see R.F.V. walthers? Reich finance ministry?
ToastytheG I have not
It looks like the convex/concave chest feathers issue is at least somewhat consistent across the grip examples.
ah the walther ppk my favorite pistol i loved from bond films i loved the compactness and the small size.
16:31 D.R.G.M. "Deutsche Reichsgebrauchsmuster" - its a patent marking - nothing to do with the political party
Still by the name alone tied to the third Reich because the PPK was not invented until 1929 and later. So no Kaiser Reich!
You are absolutely right. It has nothing to do with the NSDAP. Gebrauchsmuster is not a real patent. It is a protected style or design.
I was literally sitting on the toilet , wearing my shoulder holster with my ppks in it , when this video came up. I love Walther ppks.
WiIdbiII did the excitement allow you to squeeze out a couple more turds? PPKs are bad ass
All the original black grips had the screws fitted from right to left, screw slot on the right hand side. On the black fake the screw goes from left to right.
As a kid i bought a PPK squirtgun. It had the Party grips and I still have it.
Question: When comparing the two fake grips I noticed that the resin support in the back where it was molded out for the metal insert was rounded on the original, and square on the fake. Is that rounded look on the bottom around the metal insert a tell on the fakes? You didn't mention it, but I thought I'd ask.
Gang Xi Siyu He did mention that Bakelite over that metal piece sometimes was missing even on authentic grips.
I always feel a little ambivalent about videos like this that show how to spot fakes. On the one hand, showing how to spot mistakes is a great boon to the collector field to make them aware of the dangers of being screwed over by a clever forger. On the other hand, it shows the forgers what mistakes they are making and what they need to do to better improve their techniques of forgery to make their fake guns harder to spot.
And on the other hand consumers have blatantly inflated the value of a gun because muh nazi orginal gat
I wasn't expecting that price tag. What I saw of that manual looks like it could have been printed yesterday, amazing.
Germany was very advanced in printing and design...
I mentioned another difference in the fake and real grips - on the far wall inside the grips there is some reinforcement(?) with more thickness of plastic along the height of the grip. And near that metal reinforcing insert at the bottom of the grip these thicker parts are rounded on real grips and simply square on fake ones. On all type of grips Ian showed.
AKA - The Party Suicide Pistolen.
Interesting discussion on the fakery though. Cheers Ian :)
@Benghali In Platforms - I am aware that every gun in military service could have it's history traced in service. Do you mean employed in military or "special" service?
Benghali In Platforms What point are you making? Operation Paperclip isn’t exactly some deep, dark secret here? Anyone with a brain knows that Werner von Braun is probably the reason America made it to the moon first.
The video thumbnail makes me wonder what the silly folks at TH-cam would do if some notorious hate group used a pixellated grayscale blur as their symbol.
Are the PPK and the Makarov related somehow? I've never handled a PPK before, and this video is the first time I've looked closely at them. Mechanical details such as the shape of the slide and the hinged trigger guard (presumably the takedown latch) look very similar to my Makarov.
Yes. Not a exactly a copy, but heavily inspired by it.
I've seen so many of those WWII PPK mottled brown grips were over tightened and have small cracks around the screw holes. I recommend the repro grips for shooting, but I do notice that many of them fit poorly.
I think everything about this video is great.