SS-Contract Walther PP and PPK Pistols
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ม.ค. 2020
- / forgottenweapons
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Today, courtesy of Tom from Legacy Collectibles, we are taking a look at Walther PP and PPK pistols made specifically for the SS. These guns comprised several special contracts, distinct from general military and commercial production. They were not the only such special contracts, as such arrangements were also made for organizations like railway security and bank guards. Tracing back these specific guns has been done by a group of researchers using the archives preserved by the American and German armed forces.
If you would like more information or authentication of a Walther PP or PPK, Tom is happy to help (free of charge), and can be reached at info@legacy-collectibles.com .
To see more about Legacy, check out their TH-cam channel:
/ @legacycollectibles
The specific variations are:
PP Var 1: Non-P suffix slide, 997985 - 981212
PP Var 2: P Under serial, 124774P - 125168P
PP Var 3: External numbered slide, high polish. Crown-N proofs, 114343P - 157923P. Eagle-N proofs, 161757P - 162691P, 193484P - 194201P, 202786P - 204905P
PP Var 4: External numbered slide, military finish, 331xxxP - 333xxxP
PPK Var 1: Muzzle numbered. RZM-marked, 838769 - 841397. Non-RZM, 844936 - 990787, 1001262 - 1002477, 192083K - 192925K
PPK Var 2: K Under serial, 206019K - 234852K
PPK Var 3: External numbered slide, high polish, 242844K - 330358K
PPK Var 4: External numbered slide, military finish, 382985K - 426712K
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85704
Ian: If you don't collect these, this is some pretty esoteric information and I'm impressed that you're still watching
Me: I watched a 20 minute video on hats
I mean they were pretty cool hats.
I like hearing Ian's voice before I go to sleep after working a 12 hour shift 😅. It's so soothing hearing him talk about guns, history, or anything really.
@@TheDougwoods i can second that :)
Ian's hat video was quite enjoyable. The 'star' of the one of the other channels I watch; TheHistoryGuy, who covers forgotten history, is a hat collector. He especially collects historical military hats, but like Ian also has a few other types as well. And he does a video on the history of a particular hat from time to time. Like Ian he also stays away from politics so it's a rather enjoyable channel. ForgottenWeapons is always the 1st one I go to each day, though.
they were great hats
I love the part where he says "838769 through nein nein nein"
The Theuermann patent holsters were not meant to lift the gun, but rather the opposite, to drop the holster. The waist belt on SS uniforms (and indeed most clothes at the time) was placed really high, above the belly button. So if you had a pistol holster attached to this belt, you had to move your arm in a really unnatural and unergonomic way to draw your gun, almost moving your hand into your armpit. The Theuermann holster is designed so that when you pop the tab open, the weight of the gun pulls the entire holster down towards your hip and opens the cover flap. As you can see, the belt loops go all the way on the inside of the flap.
Thanks for this information. Very much appreciated.
Isn't the Bundeswehr using/has used those kind of holsters for their P1?
WWII Urban Carry
Absolutely! And the same design was used earlier for the P-38, but as far as I can find, only for police issue.
The Portuguese used the same design in the P1 holsters.
Man, those guns are over 70 years old and they still look like they just rolled off the line
B.J. Blazkowicz I would guess that its because these werent used in combat as much as other small arms. Pistols arent really fired that often in combat and soldiers rarely roll in dirt with a pistol like they do with rifles and smgs.
I've read that a LOT of these guns were 'presented', then placed in a desk drawer....and, that not ALL "nazis" goose stepped around Germany shooting people in the head.
@@mcgyver8177 "That'd be a horrid waste of ammunition. We have bayonets for that!"
-Oskar Dirlewanger (paraphrased)
These were in effect issued to SS police units, far behind the front lines
Hey man, I'm sorry for what they did with the newest Wolfenstein games, that's pure shame.
Her on the first date: I like guys who aren’t afraid to show their nerdy side
Me: did you know that there are subtle ways to distinguish Nazi SS issued Walther PPK/PP pistols from their civilian and military counter parts? Typical these can be distinguished by their magazines being serialized, but only if they fall into a certain serial number range. Typical there are two magazines, and some will be followed by a K (under or behind the number) indicating that they were latter production examples.
If she's genuinely impressed, she's a keeper!
@@tenhundredkills legit 50/50 chance.
*leaves because she thinks you are a nazi
@@123apacino Nowadays if you show you know anything about the German ww2 military, you're labeled as a Nazi.
Some American lefties want to ban words like "Panzer" or "Wehrmacht", because "they make Nazis sound cool"...
@@scratchy996 so people would need to say
"My grandpa was ******man in the *********"?
Ian: and I'm impressed that you're still here watching.
Me: Would watch Ian talk about pet rocks for 20min
That video was hilarious.
Gun Nerds: "Were all of these PPKs issued to the SS?"
Nazi Bureaucracy: "Nein nein nein nein nein nein...K"
Glad u picked up on this as well
This design is so cool. I remember being infatuated with these types of guns as a kid, and I blame people like James Bond lol.
I was a James Bond junkie and James always carried a Walther in I think .32.
@@dwightehowell8179 wasn't his PPK a replacement for a Beretta?
@@zachhoward9099 He started off with a Beretta 418, changed to a Beretta M1934, then changed to the PPK.
"7.62mm, delivery like a brick through a plate glass window. The American CIA swear by them". I always liked the way they specified it was the American CIA, because this was 1962 and the CIA was still relatively new.
@@dwightehowell8179 Was it Thunderball where they switch the gun on him and he tries to sneak out the beretta under the PPK box?
Oh boy, imagine being an SS officer and getting your own Walther with serial 999,999 on it.
I guess if you were the unlucky guy who had 999,998, you'd yell "NEIN!".
Ian looks like a baked out 70s hippie. His appearance disguises his true status as a grand master of old firearms!
I'm not a fluent German speaker but 4:17 made me spit out my coffee all over the screen.
it's always a giggle to read comments about spitting out liquids, at least before you feel the slight panic of the person realizing they spat on an electronic device d:
This is information I'm sure my late grandfather would have loved to get. He collected a lot of WWII-era German arms, armor, and papers.
Kinda sad that it was all sold "at cost" when he passed.
Oh my God that's so awful, I'm sorry about your grandfather passing and his collection which he probably spent years assembling, to go for 'at cost' is insane
Well u suck
I have a made in 1938 Walther PPK, my Grand Father legally brought it back from the war(have papers). It doesn’t have any Nazi markings but he did get it from a German officer. I believe it was his personal handgun.
Come on, Ian, don‘t be shy!
It‘s
REICHS
SICHERHEITS
HAUPT
AMT
TELEFONMAST!
Or Department of Homeland Security
schrodingers cat : Imperial (Reichs) Security (Sicherheits) Main/Head (Haupt) Office (Amt).
It's actually a pretty sight how the German of all those military stuff TH-camrs gets better and better over the years, so I'm no longer afraid of how Ian would pronounce that xD
The Black Baron : Warum müssen die Telefone gemästet werden?
I always find your deep dives into obscure details about equipment related to the SS very interesting. Thanks Ian. Always a pleasure to watch your videos.
If I start watching one of your videos, I finish watching it. I like the no nonsense way you deliver the information. It all makes great fodder for debate with my friends and relatives who collect all types of firearms. I think the history buff part of me is what keeps me coming back also.
I feel that. I like to call it knowledge mongering d:
There has to be so many people digging through grandpa’s stuff looking for a Walther, then listening to Ian real off serial numbers like they are lottery numbers.
Ian, thank you again for once more taking the time to show the true historical value of firearms. As an advocate for the hobby, I am proud to direct people to your work. Especially with highly educated and museum level collectors/ collections.
Walther Factory Worker, circa 1944: "Ve are losing dis war, ve need to speed up pistol production!"
Another worker: "I know! Ve shall serialise ze pistols in MORE places!"
*zis ;)
That’s the funniest think I’ve heard all week
*thing.... f’n autocorrect
I always watch all your videos to the end. I still find the videos informative. Even if it isn’t something I’m into. Thanks again for all the hard work you put into these videos Ian!
"I'm impressed you are still watching"
You can make everything interesting Ian
Besides, you never know when you are going to need to verify WW2 German SS pistols
The second SS Holster is the exact same design like the Bundeswehr P1 holster. I carried this very often on guard.
I’m really enjoying the PP/PPK guns. I watch Legacy Collectibles channel too! Keep them coming
For those of us that do collect these guns, this was a great video. Thanks keep up the great work
Brilliant as usual Ian!
Ian, this is the seventh time, this week, you have shown Walther PP and PPK, in class!
You definitely went through some serious research, thank you. Also, just got a t-shirt good quality.
"If you don't collect these, this is some pretty esoteric information and I'm impressed that you're still watching"... Compared to watching some of Lindybeige's 1+ hour videos this is nothing ;-)
Still Ian makes good content that is easy and entertaining to watch.
i want a gun jesus-lindy crossover episode
@@jacoposilvestri543 If that ends up happening and it becomes a tank-video then folks, grab your snacks and your drinks for we will be here for a while :-)
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz Same to you :-)
@@widgren87 would be a good time :)))
@@jacoposilvestri543 Oh yes it would ;-)
very informative. glad support allows you to do some travel and acquire this knowledge first hand for forgotten weapons.
History is always fascinating, thanks for the explanation
You are the Bob Ross of gun. Mad respect!
I didn't collect these before this video. Now that I have some insight I will be on the lookout for them.
I love adding to my esoteric knowledge.
It makes it so I can spout random bullshit at any time for no reason whatsoever.
Very interesting an thanks for showing these awesome Walther PP and PPK's , Gun Jesus !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just finished watching this and rushed to check out my late 30's vintage PP. It scored 100% as an SS-ordered PP var 3: 144590 P on the slide, Crown-N proofs, 144590 P / 1 (two lines) on the spine of the non-finger rest magazine, and the magazine font matches the slide font.
Sadly, my late 30's vintage PPK does not have the correct magazine, so lightning didn't strike twice.
In you listen to the background, they're testing out the new sniffing gun.
I went through the comments just to see if anyone else noticed lol
Its pissing me off sniffing is the number 1 thing I hate
Suppressed, with subsonic ammo by the sound of it
You new to the channel? Almost all his videos have the sniffing sound, you'll get used to it eventually lol
It's tape, they are boxing up things at the auction house.
Dreadful history of these weapons, but as objects, they are beautiful. Really eloquently explained and fascinating info. Thank you for making these videos, so many of us really appreciate your enthusiasm and knowledge.
Ian, l thank you for providing details on a LOT of firearms. I know that I will never own most of them but it's nice to know about them...just in case. :)
best college course on police pistols i ever attended. Thanks Dr. Ian.
I just bought my first PPK today in Brussels!
Greetings from Belgium
As I watched this video, I dug out my Dural framed, late war (rough finish) PPK. Hmm ... SS guns with the K-followed serial number are in the range of 426712K ...
Mine is 428xxxK ... damn ... As Maxwell Smart would say, Missed it by Thaaaaaaaat much!
Oh, well, great video as always with a ton of good info on rare varieties of one of my favorite pistols!
Very interesting, thank you Ian!
So knowledge on this walther thing is really amazing...
Beautiful little pistols.
Ian, do you know how to say “no” in German? Ian: yes, 4:18
Thank you , Ian .
Great video, big PP.
Like the video Ian. Love ppk!
To be honest Ian anything you post is generally very interesting.
Thanks Ian
Excellent information !
Congrats Ian! 100k views in 15 minutes
ਸਤਿ ਸ਼ੀ੍ ਆਕਾਲ ਵੀਰੇ ਧੰਨਵਾਦ ਤੇਰਾ ਇਹ ਸਭ ਦੁਰਲੱਭ ਇਤਿਹਾਸਕ ਹਥਿਆਰਾਂ ਦੀਆ ਵੀਡੀਓ ਲੲੀ ਅਤੇ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਜਾਣਕਾਰੀ ਲਈ ।
I love history, so no problem is to watch the whole vid Bro, thx for the vid.
Please do more videos on SS gear and weapons this was a big help
I don't have any WWII collectible German handguns but enjoyed the video. I even looked up the meaning of the word esoteric after so I learned something today.
Great video, interesting stuff. Just getting nightmares of my time in the army and Joe having serialized magazines to track.
Thanks for the video.
Crazy cool history.
Really dig the color of the grips
Ian, If you did a video detailing 9 mm magazines from 72 to 88 for example, I would still watch. I like your presenting style, The more esoteric the Better.
Great Video. I find it a bit interesting thought that you totally failed to mention the books written on the subject. The Red book SS Walther PP/PPK 1939-1944 written by Joachim Gortz & Dieter H. Marschall or the Black book SS Walther PP/PPK Identification & Documents written by Steven Stepan. These wonderful gentlemen spent loads of time on research of the very subject. And some would say that most of the information that we have today is because of the very works that they undertook. Sorry to sound negative but, a small shout out would have been respectful in my opinion.
I don’t collect these. I only watched the entire video bcos the content was very very well delivered! Great vid again Gun Jesus! ;)
My Great Grandfather came back from Italy after working with Military Intelligence and he brought a Walther PP with him. He said he got it in a POW camp full of Germans and Italians.
Great video. I hope to some day own a Walther PP. But anyways keep up the good work.
Brilliant cheers... now will look and see if you have put together the police versions
Ian:*Tries his best to emphasise the details on authentic guns*
Frauds: "Write that down! Write that down!"
"Known serial numbers are 838769 thru nein nein nein nein nein nein."
Sorry, Ian, I didn't know it was such a touchy subject
Cool information.
Just got a brand new stainless PPK. Such a beautiful gun.
I had a stainless PPK/S- one extra round in the magazine. Very accurate with Winchester ball .380.
Ian: OK you've done well...
Me:*tears
As a related aside, I would heartily recommend Philip Kerr's "Berlin Noir" police procedurals with Bernie Gunther, a detective in Kripo (Kriminalpolizei) in the 1930s. I enjoyed the first three books.
Love it keep it up
Is there any record of who these guns contracted by the SS were actually issued to?
I don't collect WW2 German Small arms, I ain't even in the arms collecting, never fired a gun in my entire life.
Still don't know why I'm even subbed to your channel, or why I'm watching every video - but these are well made, and well explained.
And now I know a bunch of stuff about rare weapons that I likely won't ever have an occasion to put to use. But it's good content.
That's why I'm staying ^^
“This is some pretty esoteric weapons”
*proceeds to call them PP pistols*
Well, I don't collect though I wish I could ($$$.) You always make an esoteric subject INTERESTING and that is why I stay to the end.
What are the brown and green grips on the one made of, Bakelite? Adds a nice touch, especially with the same material on the magazine heels. Very nice👍
Thumbs up Ian!
I dont collect german gun, however I like esotheric information very much.
Thank you!
"All knowledge is useful for knowledge is Power" Benjamin Franklin.
those guns look like they are in fantastic condition
I'm not really interested in the collecting side, but I am always interested in the arms race of Collector and Forgers and how the later combats the former. So I found the police versions and seeing how a stamp looks when it is not to the standard of Walther to be very interesting.
It sounds funny when Ian talks about PPs
🙃
I have a PP model from the Western German Police before switching to the 9mm. Mine is in 32 auto and is my deep stash weapon. Very reliable and accurate.
I owned an interarms PPKS years ago. I swear it was moody on what ammo it wanted. Felt like the spring came off a tractor trailer and a 17 pound trigger pull. Other than that great looking old gun
that american made one was a piece of shit. turned it back in for the german made, love it .
Ian is clearly a wizard. How did he convince me to watch a 16 minute video on serial numbers when I have no interest in German pistols, let alone SS stuff? Yet here I am, at the end of the video thinking "that was really cool."
my grandfathers fought in WWII, one in the pacific and one in europe in Patton's third army as a cook and sniper (shapeshooter). while ss-property always gives me the willies, I'm ALWAYS happy to learn something new. you make it fun and interesting, even if I don't like the people that carried the items. I highly doubt I will get into wwii german firearms anytime soon, but if I do, I always know someone (you) that knows a LOT more than I do about the subject...
did not expect this vid to be uploaded so recently! lol
i think that last holster is desgned to allow for western style quick draw when the holster is open.
i have one for a walther p1 so i guess german police continued to use these holsters.
They are so cool
Favorite James bond gun
I'm pretty sure he was more partial to his .25 caliber Beretta until they made him "upgrade" to .32.
@@jayzenitram9621 ... because all the gun-nuts KNOW that you need at least .38 for stopping power. (Morons.)
Here in Norway a friend of mine has an old original 7.92 k98 mauser after his granfather and it has a large SS skulle making on the top of reciver with some other SS runes.
Jeg har arvet en sånn en også :)
Love em
Ian is doing a tremendous public education effort.
Interesting!
Walther makes premo equipment!
Even for FW this is pretty esoteric.
I dont collect these pistols.. but if you can some day make a video like this on bulgarian Ar-sf (aks74u) that would be amazing.. because in america the kits we got dont have serial numbers that were like the ones in bulgaria.... we have few that look similar and most that are totally not correct..
Anyways great video thanks love geek info!
surprisingly only one that you showed had a RZM marking since the SS had everything produced for them ether stamped RZM or had attached RZM paper tags.
@Q Anon EVERYTHING that was produced for the SS had to have a RZM tag or stamp, I've seen belts holsters with the RZM logal pressed into the eater. Smaller items like buttons had paper RZM tags . Every company that produced for the SS had a RZM number assigned to them and appeared on the tags