Bouldness Tanki X I feel like I need to be sitting in a plain white room with a desk and an office chair, hands in my lap, sitting up straight, poker face.
@Deel Man.. you are absolutely right. I thought I might be alone in coming to these kinds of lectures and debates to calm my mind and enable one to plant our feet firmly on well reasoned and argued ground. These talks are, as the topic of the discussion suggests, transcendent. They give me hope that all is not lost.
@Mark Kenny I think that there is a solution. The minds of our generation need to rise up. We have so much to be thankful for in the sacrifices of our predecessors. I've started by doing my part, I am hopeful that more people will also.
I feel like a pleb I am 60, not acedemic, and I found Peterson last year and he led me to Scruton.. At this stage in my life they have offered me an insight into being that was there within but I couldn't articulate. I have lived a very wide varied and travelled existence across the world, yet they have given the templet to lay out and understand the journey. I often cry now that this didn't happen earlier but there's also a great joy that can only come from a feeling of a sort of new lived transcendent experience that had to wait it's turn...Blessed! Is the only word I can use to listen and live their discussion. I sense I knew previously everything they extolled but I had to hear it. Both of them at some level seem to represent one father's voice revelling some ancient knowledge from an obscure symbolic past that needs to be interpreted for today. RIP SirRoger and 💜 to you Dr Peterson, get well soon.
What's wonderful is that after all your years, you have found, yet, another source of inspiration and way to love your relationship with life. Isn't that the whole point, to find these gems of transcendence that give us that far away feeling and yet ground us at the same time? I liken it to adolescent love. th-cam.com/video/0-vlX8uRLMQ/w-d-xo.html
Sir Roger Scruton Died today 12. 1. 2020. He fought a brave battle against cancer, which he regrettably lost. He was 75 years old. Not only one of great and inspirational minds of our time but also a great friend to Czechoslovakia ( My nation and that of my brothers Slovaks )and to freedom, which he helped us to regain. Rest in Peace Sir Roger. You will be missed, You will be remembered kindly and never forgotten. Thank you.
Dr. Scruton had the pleasure and honor of staging his two operas in Czechoslovakia. His love for and understanding of music also gave us his magnificent "The Aesthetics of Music." Roger Scruton was a powerful educator.
My thoughts are that Jordan and Roger are in the cross hairs of the orchestrators of the current takedown of society. They are what I see as people who perceive tradition and handed down philosophies as the core of our culture and there are people who are trying to upset those accepted norms while bringing in a whole new set. LGBT agenda and Political Correctness (being Self Censorship) for instance.
whoever speaks the truth, learned or from intuition, will be persecuted, that is the constant. we live in a wolrd of deceit and where the masses have believed a lie.
“That’s what a culture is, the residue of all those things people have thought worthwhile to preserve” Sir Roger had a wonderful gift of language that freezes you on the spot. Over and over again. What a sad loss. RIP.
Hilariously, TH-cam linked me to this video afterwards: "Slavoj Zizek - Why white liberals like to humiliate themselves" and the first thing Zizek said is that ALL culture is horrible! :D :D :D
This is a great observation - literature, philosophy, art music, civilized discourse - all of a kind in being for the elevation and betterment of mankind.
I loved the simple way Jordan explained transcendence as fact. Absolutely brilliant. Roger's reference to _"the transition from samsara to brahman"_ is not the same thing that Jordan was speaking of. How so? The transition from the cycle of birth and death (samsara) means you are no longer in the world and so you can't tell anyone about the experience of the Transcendent Reality. Jordan was speaking of glimpses of transcendence in our daily lives. And it happens sometimes when we hear beautiful music or see beautiful art or a performance in a movie or the movie itself. A window is opened by the artist which allows one to peek at the beauty of the Divine. It is why 50,000 people will pay $30 a ticket and fill a stadium to hear their favourite rock idol. We thirst for that which is transcendent as fish out of water wish to be returned to water, its natural habitat. The problem I see tho; there is not a framework to further these discussions, at least not in the west. The Vedanta sutras has such a framework. But its adoption in the west hasn't been successful so far save perhaps in the field of Artificial Intelligence.
Note: two versions of this are up on my channel. This is the uncut original. The other version has different intro music, and a slightly truncated intro. The first upload ran into copyright problems, which have been rectified (I hope -- the problem emerged by error).
Wait, the uncut version with the un-truncated intro is 1 second shorter? How does that work? Does it have to do with the rectification of the copyright issues the first one had?
NOTE: Jordan Peterson is an elitist egomaniacal self denying ideologue. Worst of all, a liar. He denies the dangers of global warming. The "gender pronoun" he got famous off of, and said its dangerous. No one has been arrested, jailed or fined for that law. He got famous off of a lie. One TRUTH he himself has said: "I monetized SJWers". Yes. He has monetized the ideological tribalism of the united states. He is dangerous to society. He is in it to make a quick coin.
What a privilege to be able to listen to these great wise men and to have the modern means to propagate this knowledge. What an amazing age we are in. We should be grateful every day.
Smart and sharp. I throughly enjoyed this. Finding Jordan has opened the door to me finding all these other intellectuals. I feel like I've learnt more in the last year then in the past 10. I am feeling better within myself personally everyday. Personal growth and enlightenment.
@UCMcQlJQlgBDODllSF1Wi44w john Anderson, Niall Ferguson, his wife Aayan Hirsi Ali, Douglas Murray, Ben Shapiro, Shelby Steele; you will find that the Hoover Institution, Dennis Prager, Joe Rogan (not precisely an intellectual but a great host & an excellent student), and just looking at links off of them, will turn you on to a lot of good people & stuff. Sometimes you’ll want a TH-cam rain storm or ocean waves to recover from all this stimulation!
Seeing Peterson's excitement to share his theories on the topics with Sir Roger brought a smile to my face. JP spends so much of his time in debates with people that don't have the ability or the will to understand what he is trying to say. Here you can tell immediately that JP feels that he has found someone else on his frequency.
@@Ignasimp the way he expresses himself needlessly complicating his message to make it sound more intelligent. Unlike Roger Scruton who's articulate and clear.
@@kristofp72 Not a former conservative, but I'm getting into Scruton recently and I do appreciate him, however I think Peterson is what an intellectual may look to normal folks... Just not on the same level of Scruton or other great academic minds I clearly don't apprecciate him deeply, but I recognize his important work on helping people
@@kristofp72 I don't usually have any trouble understanding Peterson but I have to admit in this video I had to pause at some point because I couldn't follow.
Sir Roger Scruton, one of the leading lights in conservative philosophy and Prof JBP??? Wow, yes pls, and it's FREE! I'll listen to this whilst clearing the snow methinks! 😁
it's FREE!!! isn't that just so awesome! (well sort of) The message seems to downplay the importance of monetization... but in all honesty: it is still funded by supporters (so we get to benefit, I'm grateful for that).
@@itsallminor6133, fair enough... - There might be some truth to that; but bare in mind "sometimes the message is so important, that someone needs to make it entertaining; to get more people interested." Currently he's a popular figure/"the hook" to get as many interested as possible; in actually sitting down and listening to the *TRUTH* that other (perhaps stodgier/boring) intellectuals have to offer the masses.
There will be a day, when all the men in that room will be long gone, but I hope people who are to come won't let this unique moment die. God bless you all.
This comnent is mainly directed at the followers of Jordan Peterson. Would you dear ladies then please weigh in with EXTENDED comments. You comnents are sorely missed. Ordinary men, (presumed normal/neurotypical, with no know mental diseases) REALLY miss your input. We, (the normal ect.. ) do not know where to draw the lines between neo-marxism and their snowflakes on one side (truely abhorrent, but how numerous?) and e.g. MGTOWS and PUAs on the other side (likewise an entity of unknow size and acceptance among women ). That do YOU, dear ladies, find acceptable from feminists or MGTOWS, etc. Or how do you see YOUR role in spreading sanity, mutual responsability, and MUTUAL respect between the sexes? Likewise I would love to see female proper scientists go public with data, in this contentious area. And not leave the definitions and assesments of problem-size, to MGTOWS, lesbian artteachers and ukrainian immigrants, (of cause no offence ment! Your contributions are much appretiated, but we need more generality.) So ladies please pitch in. Kindest regards
I love these discussions. It is so edifying to me. I cannot express the depth of gratitude I have for men like you and Sir Roger Scruton. In my humble existence, low and I may be, I hunger for this kind of intellectual discourse. It feeds my imagination and encourages me to rise and be my own hero in my story. Thank you!
JP has many gifts. One that strikes me is his ability ‘to bring down the truth from on high for the mere mortals’ - he is greater mind than I yet I can follow his thought process every-time - he conceives and articulates beautifully. Time after time I have these eureka moments listening to him and how he describes things. Its as if he can look over walls I cant but can then come back down and describe what he sees to me. I don’t get this with most other highly intelligent thinkers (including i’m afraid Sir Roger) I become disconnected from the essence of what it is he is trying to convey to me. Thats not to say he isn’t incredibly intelligent and wonderful btw. This is one reason Jordan has exploded onto the modern landscape I feel. After all the controversy-mongers have gone home the open minded and the curious stay behind to listen (en-masse) and a rare thing occurs. You feel like your listening to a man who is mainlining distilled reality and seeing connections you can’t but who is able to bring it all together and take you on a marvellous epistemological journey with him. I love it. And I love him!
Nik Hierro I agree with you, Jordan is relatively easy to understand and that’s why he have so much people following him now. I think that this is extremely important, but like in this debate Peterson seems to disconnect from the core of the questions.
Nik, that was very well said. True for me, too. Thank goodness for JP making important things so I can understand them. It's had a real effect on me,too. Good stuff!
Jordan's comments on gratitude around 1:21:20 really struck me to the core. I myself used to do line work in the middle of the winter, and although I was still young and strong, I understood how difficult it can be for those less able-bodied than I was- and none of that even compares to the horrors of history. It truly is a miracle that humanity has triumphed in the way it has. God bless us all.
Thank you for sharing this, Dr. Peterson. A wonderful philosophical discussion on important matters, without SJWs wasting your time arguing about some common sense basics they should have learnt in school.
John Wick I think the point is that we are not! Being taught these things in school?? I know your upset about you dog but try not to get to distracted .😂😂
Thank you Dr. Jordan Peterson for your ability and drive to deconstruct the chaos around us. Your teachings have profoundly changed my views of the world in a positive way and assess the future much better.
Can we all just agree that indeed, "you do need a plumber"? I love Peterson's ability to draw deep intellectual concepts out of the mundane. What a privilege to listen to these great thinkers!
Both the dignity and humility of these two great thinkers brought me to tears. Life is so wondrous and fragile! This truth is palpable in their words, and the space between. Thank you for sharing these live exchanges . . . of two men who will be etched in History.
Why can we not see conversations like this on BBC? What happened to public service broadcasting? Why do we have to suffer dumbed down rubbish? We have 100 times more first class degrees each year now compared to 1970. So why is intellectual output on media now near zero?
I partly agree. But having more 1st class degrees among the general populous isn't really evidence of anything other than how tertiary education has also been dumbed down. I'd also hazard a guess that discoursing of this nature would be a bit too politically unsound for the BBC.
@@sylaqI admit I was being facetious on degrees. I don't think the general level of intellect has changed for a few thousand years. We did once have intelligent discussion on BBC however. I think they are now actually trying to control events by withholding facts that do not fit their liberal elite agenda on diversity politics, climate change , politics of resentment etc. I now question nearly everything they report on the news as being seen through anti west / virtue signalling agenda. We should make more formal complaints. See Jordan and Bjorn Lomburg.
I listened this many times and it is just simply comforting to hear the voice of wisdom. I am still sad that Sir Roger Scruton is no longer with us. The world is still dark for beauty to be seen by many. Now a light on beauty ceased to shine, the world is a little dimmer than before.
Read Huxley's The Doors of Perception, a book Peterson has stated that he's read as well. That sentence you just quoted is pretty much a summation of what Huxley was getting at in that book. Of course, Huxley was on mescaline. *shrugs
JP has been the most dapper man in the west for a year or so. He arrives in Cambridge and meets all these typically-dishevelled, academic dudes. Immediately buys himself a grotty woollen jumper - well played sir, well played.
Josue Guzman Now just think and imagine that people dislike this video because they don't think that the topic was addressed properly and that the ideas being expressed had any value.
@thegenie Unless, of course, you have another look at the comment of @masonmmaspecilist, and realise that an incorrect address of the topics at hand could be expressed through ill-formed, "valueless" ideas. In this reading of the comment, the topic is of primary importance, but is misapprehended in a manner that gives rise to these worthless ideas flung at each other by nitwits. How the written word gives rise to multiplicities of interpretations! Not that I believe that, of course. It would take a very removed or esoteric perspective to see this intellectual interaction in a negative light.
@thegenie Perhaps it might surprise you if I were to tell you I don't make presumptions about a statement with inherent ambiguity. That seems to me to be more than sufficient evidence for projection on your part. "Nothing to imply more than the contradiction." Sounds an awful lot like you're searching for a contradiction. I'm sure @masonmmaspecilist wouldn't intentionally contradict himself, don't you think?
@thegenie And your solution is to belittle and degrade while considering yourself 'of the good guys'? The position works like this - all transcendentalisms (not just the ancient Greek type) are mysticisms, with no grounding in the verifiable universe. Therefore 'the topic was not addressed properly' simply because that issue was not addressed, but avoided. The 'ideas being expressed' were to support those of religious mysticism and, therefore, don't have any value outside of the closed system of 'religious belief' (ie. the whole discussion is set-up of buddy hugging for people of the same prejudices or beliefs). Now - you may have been able, with a little amount of insight and concern, to deduce this position from the comment. Still, you, perhaps, would not have been to offload your libidinal trash had you done so. I hope we can still be friends?
@@stueyapstuey4235 Hi. My name's Jake- I'd like to respond to part of your response. "all transcendentalisms (not just the ancient Greek type) are mysticisms, with no grounding in the verifiable universe." First of all I congratulate you on your cogent outlining of the opposing position. That is indeed the rational empiricist view of the transcendental as such, and I don't know when I've heard it put so succinctly before. You are clearly gifted. However, I have two items for you in this response, an observation and a question, in that order. A) I think you'll find should you examine the corpus of Dr. Peterson's work (and perhaps Sir Scruton's; I'm not as familiar with his) that his claims about the physical, immediate and biologically/physiologically verifiable existence and manifestation of the transcendent as a function of consciousness (itself being some adapted and evolved trait) are actually rather robust. Our eyes developing their outstanding capacity for color distinction, for instance, is largely due to the need to distinguish between different types of vegetable/fruit (edible vs. poisonous) and foods in general- the result of that development for seeing color being that we attribute significance or meaning to objects of one color versus another. The attribution of meaning to objects could therefore be construed as an evolutionary adaptation. I won't go into his whole body of work of course but I think his overall position on the matter of whether or not transcendentalisms have any grounding in the verifiable universe might be summarized this way: that we imbue things, events and people with meaning cannot be a mistake or accident, in the way that the design of a bat's wing or whale's tail is no accident. Evolutionary forces pressed on our physiology and shaped how our brains perceive and interact with the physical world; consciousness might therefore be characterized as a sort of autonomic compass or schematic that allows us to navigate the world of objects safely (for the most part) by transforming it into a world of meaningful objects. Meaning and the search/invention for/of meaning (by definition a transcendentalism) is a necessary symptom of consciousness and the two cannot be separated. Man's search for or imbuement of meaning in the mundane (or the verifiable universe, however you'd care to characterize it) cannot be stripped from the phenomenon of consciousness, and vice versa. A') I believe that the issue not addressed here, as you put it, was ignored not out of avoidance or deception (purposeful or otherwise), but because for two such men in such fields the issue is a bit of a nonstarter. You call it "buddy-hugging" but I call it two men beginning the conversation where it begins FOR THEM. "The 'ideas being expressed' were to support those of religious mysticism and, therefore, don't have any value outside of the closed system of 'religious belief'" I would again encourage you to further examine Peterson's own work on the evolutionary origin and value of religious thought and systems and the work of others he extols; particularly that of Jaak Panksepp the Estonian neuroscientist and psychobiologist and Mircea Eliade the Romanian historian of religion and professor at the University of Chicago. The works by these men relevant to this issue are listed below. I found them to be transformative of my understanding of the workings of the brain and their relation to large-scale social phenomena like religious belief and experience. www.amazon.com/Affective-Neuroscience-Foundations-Emotions-Science-ebook/dp/B00590X4HM www.amazon.com/Emotional-Foundations-Personality-Neurobiological-Evolutionary/dp/0393710572 www.amazon.com/Sacred-Profane-Nature-Religion/dp/015679201X B) are you truly a rationalist empiricist? You sound as though you believe you are. I mean, you deftly argue for the opposing position, there can be no question of that- but, from your responses, I'm not sure I'm any closer to how you think or what you believe as an individual. I can't quite grasp why you think it's self-evident that these men would be nitwits for desiring to contend with the transcendental or the religious or even the quasi-religious. Can you tell me more about what you think about what they said? And if you would, address this thing you said, "...and realise that an incorrect address of the topics at hand could be expressed through ill-formed, "valueless" ideas." I contend that the title and topic of this talk was kept purposefully ambiguous so as to free Dr. Peterson and Sir Scruton entirely from any preconceptions regarding the transcendental other than their own: "Apprehending the Transcendental". The second part of my question to you is this: if you believe the transcendental as here described is all a bunch of hooey (which is what it sounds like you think), why would you watch a video titled "Apprehending the Transcendental"? If the transcendental is only relevant inside the "closed system of religious belief" and is therefore not worth discussing critically at length as you appear to claim, why would you waste your time watching (and by virtue of watching, taking part in) such a conversation? I apologize for that other guy's beastly way of communicating. Thank you for taking the time to read and consider what I've written here. Even if we disagree I think it's pleasant and important to value one another's time and input. Hoping you find all this mildly less beastly, Jake Rigdon
Just bursted into tears realizing from the comments that Sir Roger passed ten days ago. I hope he had Bach's mass played when he joined with the Transcendent. You will be missed, good Sir.
"Man is only a reed, the most feeble thing in nature, but he is a thinking reed. The entire universe need not arm itself to crush him. A vapour, a drop of water suffices to kill him. But, if the universe were to crush him, man would still be more noble than that which killed him, because he knows that he dies and the advantage which the universe has over him; the universe knows nothing of this. All our dignity then, consists in thought. By it we must elevate ourselves, and not by space and time which we cannot fill. Let us endeavour then to think well; for this is the principle of morality." Blaise Pascal, "Pensées" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise_Pascal
This was a true conversation in which each of them handed the baton around and carried on fluidly, and used each other's comments to inspire their own. Brilliant!
RIP Sir Roger Scruton, I could listen to him for hours and hours. I've never read him, but I'm excited to read a contemporary philosopher that's so very different in opinions from others. God bless him.
Farewell to Sir Roger Scruton. What a loss. Do people in the UK have any idea what a gem they had? Not enough, alas. If he was French, they would have a national day of mourning.
Scruton's discussion on link between morality, beauty and why we need them is fantastic. Especially as he makes the case that neither are as subjective as one thinks. Beauty is not in the eye of the beholder.
I like watching Jordon Peterson have a long discussion with other very intelligent people. Rather than some slow tv show host who constantly questions him and tries to corner him into sayings things well constantly interrupting him.
The quiet, courteous, and respectful intelligence of this moderator, Stephen Blackwood is the final perfect touch to this stupendously wonderful discussion by two of the finest minds of the 20th-21st century. How lucky are we all that this was brought about before Sir Roger died. How privileged we are, and how grateful, judging by the wonderful comments below. To think that technology allows us to spend an hour and a half with these two (three really) men, to be stimulated and enthralled by the best of our Western culture. I feel so blessed.
RIP Sir Roger, a truly great man. I could have watched this discussion for hours and never grown tired of hearing such profundity, such, eloquence, such compassion, such intellect.
There is so much I could write about this extraordinary conversation between two pre-eminent thinkers of our time that I will instead compliment the moderator, Dr Stephen Blackburn who is passionately engaged by its themes. He contributes through his searching questions which allow the speakers to explore in depth and with freedom the nature and value of the transcendent.
I'am so thankful to be alive in this era where so much wisdom is available for anyone regardles of the human condition...listening all of this has really helped me guiding my life...thanks Jordan!!!
I love reading so much. The first time I read a book from start to finish was at age 21. I would cheat all through school. I'm turning 25 in a few days and God do I love reading now. I just wish young men like me would force themselves to read (not listen to audiobook) just so they can grow their reading skills. I would suggest everyone to start with George Orwell. But he's not even my favorite author, although he is a great.
@Y T way to self congratulate. Apparently none of those books were on humility lmao. Plus there are plenty of other valuable experiences one can have that would equate to a rich childhood without having read. One can be improverished of actual reality outside of books.
Y T Y T I wasn't offended at all. I felt sorry for YOU to be honest. The need to tell someone they had an impoverished childhood only so you could brag about the number you had read. I also never said I had an impoverished childhood. Nor did I clim that I lacked access to books. The self esteem thing is clearly a projection of how you feel which would also connect to your need to belittle and brag. Finally, despite your great fortune of not having an impoverished/bookless childhood, you still manage to expose yourself as quite the foolish clown by putting words in my mouth as your best attempt at an attack. Sad really. Have a lovely life.
I've always been a literature fan; mostly classic fictional novels, but literature in general is quite amazing. It's a shame you didn't realize such a thing until 25, but it's never too late as proven by the fact that you have now discovered what a joy reading and literature can be. There are so many things that go in to it on so many levels; countless interpretations, perspectives, and ideas both from the author and the reader, sometimes completely unrelated. Interpreting words that make up a story is such a personal journey, and it's absolutely beautiful that something such as standardized language can be interpreted in such a personal manner.
@Y T is it? I don't see younger people with issues marathoning video games. Is it the attention span getting smaller, or less things requiring long spans of attention? I would argue that a part of that "problem" is the fact that things are now designed in that manner. When everything caters to those who don't stay focused on one thing for long, is it really a problem? That could just be us dinosaurs not getting with the times. Personally I do think it's a problem and I don't believe what I just stated, but I can't say it's an invalid point either. As long as the select few do have the dedication and focus to develop things that the most spastic of people can use efficiently, it isn't much of a problem. Of course that relies on those select few, which isn't necessarily a great idea either. But I think this is less of a single issue, and a coalescing of many different issues and perspectives all colliding together in a way that is quite different to anything we've really seen before. The question is whether it's sustainable or not. The real problems come if it isn't, because then the floor collapses under us and most of the populous has no means to recover... But again, we are choosing to put ourselves in that position (in general; obviously you and I don't think it's a great spot) and we don't even know if it will collapse. It's all a matter of perspective, and we won't know if we're fucked or not until it's too late. So strap in; we're in for a hell of a ride. Whether it's to the top at rocket speed or straight to the ground I have no idea... But we are in the midst of fascinating times. For reference regarding my perspective, I'm 26 years old. However, the internet was a huge part of my life starting from when I was 4, so I may have a more understanding view in that regard.
Incredible discourse, incredibly enlightening, Thank you to all who made this possible. Incredibly grateful to have open access to such high level thinkers in my own home. GTG now and add more order and beauty to my bedroom :-) Much love Namaste
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Such a beautiful response, I've been thinking about this particularly today and found that sometimes I have preferred to stay at home listening to intelectual lectures than going out to party with friends, instead i schedule them for lunch. My life has improved tremendously and my health. I feel incredibly greatful to have internet and be able to visit this content in the commodity of my room. Cheers mate.
It’s unbelievable to me that there can be 90 minute conversations of this sort where the entirety of the conversation is packed with substance and interplay and a grappling with big ideas in pursuit of the truth. These two men deserve our acclaim. May Sir Roger Scruton Rest In Peace and may God be with Dr. Peterson as he continues his recovery to good health.
We were encouraged to hate Scruton as a right wing bigot, how unenlightened we were, how political lightweightscould sway the vunerable to political conformity in the 1980s .
Because the lightweights are there to serve the interests that run the system from the real place of power, the king makers the mass media owners mega corporations and ideological cliques. If you vote for one thing for 70 years and get the opposite of it, you aren't in power regardless of wether your vote chooses the man or not.
Thank you all for this. I have been a musician dedicated to beauty for many years with hopes of bringing joy and enlightenment to others, and now I face the challenges that you describe coursing through the very institutions and works which have inspired me all my life. Hearing you discuss this is enough in this moment. A very welcome gift!
It's a rare moment when Jordan Peterson looks somehow a highly comptetent student in comparison to Sir. Roger. There was something weighty about the latter. I think it is a combination of aging gracefully, having strong sense of faith, and of course his knowledge---so calm, cool, and collected. Yet there was a moment when JP was at his best. We need more of this kind of discussion. In my humble opinion, I though it must have been nerve wrecking to sit between two gaint but the moderator got to do better than that. All in all, very good discussion. Thanks 😊
@@bugglebegger143 I wrote this 2 years ago. Some of us thought, JP will be a force to be reckon. And yet he became one of those who advocate for the jab. For some mysterious reason, despite the reactions we witnessed of those who took the jab, very similar to his own reaction to the prescription he was taking, instead of saying NO to the jab now he is advocating for it. We know he has just recovered from that hellish state of mind he was in and which almost killed him. And now to prsecribe to people this jab, which has similar effect, is beyond anything rational.
Humbled and honored to be able to view such a beautiful encounter between two prominent thinkers. Meaning is the portal to transcendence. I cannot agree more Dr. Peterson.
What an unbelievably comfy video to discover on Christmas Day , with a glass of sherry and a mince pie in hand. Thank you Dr Peterson and Sir Roger for doing this. Very inspirational and thought provoking.
Absolutely excellent. So wonderful to see these two brilliant men in conversation together. Roger Scruton has a brilliant documentary, originally on BBC and now available on TH-cam, called 'Why Beauty Matters'. This was my introduction to the man. I would highly recommend it. Thank you Dr. Peterson for uploading this and for everything you have done and are doing.
I wish I were on this level, but I understood enough to know learning and teaching ourselves to understand the basics and teach love and understanding to our youth is paramount.
Very few people on earth are on this level, but Love and redemption does seem to be a reoccurring theme in both Sir Roger’s and Jordan Peterson’s lectures.
Such an underrated conversation of both Peterson and Scruton. Multiple times throughout this video I've experienced 'a portal through the transcendence', as they so beautifully described it. I will definitely come back to this video and rewatch it and no doubt find even more portals that were previously hidden for me.
When I was 13, watching this talk, I did not understand a single thing and therefore turned it off, but when I revisited it a year later, I was blown away by the sheer amount of valuable information contained in this gem; this was quite an enlightening talk.
Yes indeed. The very act of conceptualisation itself creates the 'low resolution representation' that Jordan refers to. We do it automatically and then totally ignore what we've just done.
@@strangetranceoffaith Humans perceive 4 dimensions: length, width, depth (psychical) and time (temporal) whilst string theory, for example, works on 10 dimensions. A being that exists on such a scale would be therefore be classified as transcendent and more real than we are; they exist and perceive more levels of reality than we can comprehend.
Had the honor of meeting Sir Roger Scruton about ten years ago at a small private dinner where he spoke. I didn’t appreciate then the greatness I was witnessing.
"When people loose some transcendental Faith, that they automatically fall into this great pit of resentment, to try and find the oppressor in every relationship" ~ Sir Roger Scruton. A great truth, and this fall started with the 30 pieces of silver. Something like the first bite of the "apple"
A very pleasurable moment in time, in this moment are many openings and light. The darkness was driven back for at least a little while, thank you. It will be remembered by many.
Absolutely brilliant! Such a pleasure to listen and feel intellectually challenged. The comments left below have renewed my faith in the human condition, in these trying times. I only wish there were more people, like those that left these comments, in my daily life. As a fellow Canadian I never tire of listening to my co-patriot Dr. Peterson. Thank you!
Really enjoyed this! My brain hurts a little now. :) I admire both speakers. This is the sort of content I enjoy watching of JP, where he's able to articulate without being interrupted by some vastly inferior intellect. His time is wasted on those individuals (or should I say social groups). Keep up the great work and please keep inspiring the individual to find her/his full potential.
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I feel I should have been wearing a suit to listen to this.
Im wearing a bowtie. Nothing else 😐
Bouldness Tanki X I feel like I need to be sitting in a plain white room with a desk and an office chair, hands in my lap, sitting up straight, poker face.
Bouldness Tanki X although during the intro I feel like I should be in a cloak with a staff, in lord of the rings.
You are all kinda gay
@@AJ-mo6mw Formal attire... nice.
Strange how grounding, calming it is to listen to reasoned dialogue in an age of rage, censorship and virtue signalling.
yesssssssssssssss
@N nonsense, Peterson was not in any way out of his depth. Scruton would undoubtedly agree with me I'm sure.
It is absolutely heavenly. We need more more more of this!
@Deel Man.. you are absolutely right. I thought I might be alone in coming to these kinds of lectures and debates to calm my mind and enable one to plant our feet firmly on well reasoned and argued ground. These talks are, as the topic of the discussion suggests, transcendent. They give me hope that all is not lost.
Absolutely! In fact your comment has prompted me to delete my YouGov profile. No one needs habitual online bickering in their life.
Rest in Peace Roger
The world is a little darker having now lost such a luminous mind shining its light on it.
Same!
What a pity he couldn't have been with us a little longer, still ' no man knoweth the hour '...
@Mark Kenny I think that there is a solution. The minds of our generation need to rise up. We have so much to be thankful for in the sacrifices of our predecessors. I've started by doing my part, I am hopeful that more people will also.
@@vladenache6937 thanks, good luck to you and your endeavors and goals.
@@PS3isawesome34 What list of specific books did you have to read at that time, to get your qualification in philosophy and then in political science.
I feel like a pleb
I am 60, not acedemic, and I found Peterson last year and he led me to Scruton..
At this stage in my life they have offered me an insight into being that was there within but I couldn't articulate.
I have lived a very wide varied and travelled existence across the world, yet they have given the templet to lay out and understand the journey. I often cry now that this didn't happen earlier but there's also a great joy that can only come from a feeling of a sort of new lived transcendent experience that had to wait it's turn...Blessed! Is the only word I can use to listen and live their discussion. I sense I knew previously everything they extolled but I had to hear it. Both of them at some level seem to represent one father's voice revelling some ancient knowledge from an obscure symbolic past that needs to be interpreted for today. RIP SirRoger and 💜 to you Dr Peterson, get well soon.
I'm 28 and I am mad I didnt know about this stuff sooner, but younger me wouldnt care.
I'm glad I found JP when I was 18, I needed it really bad. He's the father I never had
What's wonderful is that after all your years, you have found, yet, another source of inspiration and way to love your relationship with life. Isn't that the whole point, to find these gems of transcendence that give us that far away feeling and yet ground us at the same time? I liken it to adolescent love. th-cam.com/video/0-vlX8uRLMQ/w-d-xo.html
Better late than never!
Well said.
Im here after Sir Roger's death. May God bless him
Same here!
didn’t anticipate i’d find this conversation! i just discovered RS
@Russian Métropolitan moron
Thank you, ted. Very cool!
Same here. Gone to soon...
Thank God these men exist.
Thank God men exist.
Well said, Wiso Norge
Wisco Norge Ahmen
Wisco Norge: thanks to these men, God exists.
Wisco Norge Ahem
Sir Roger Scruton Died today 12. 1. 2020. He fought a brave battle against cancer, which he regrettably lost. He was 75 years old. Not only one of great and inspirational minds of our time but also a great friend to Czechoslovakia ( My nation and that of my brothers Slovaks )and to freedom, which he helped us to regain. Rest in Peace Sir Roger. You will be missed, You will be remembered kindly and never forgotten. Thank you.
Dr. Scruton had the pleasure and honor of staging his two operas in Czechoslovakia. His love for and understanding of music also gave us his magnificent "The Aesthetics of Music." Roger Scruton was a powerful educator.
Tragic. Although listening to this makes him really still being alive right here and now
@@graemecreegan6749 love it
I didn't even know he was sick
@@graemecreegan6749 You're a scholar and a gentleman. Surely a graduate of the University of Science. I tip my hat to you.
Both these gentlemen are highly civilized and wise. They should not have been persecuted in their careers for speaking the truth as they see it.
There is no "truth as you see it" Truth depends not on your perspective...
@@mattrountree. Turth depends not on your perspective only if you're actually always wrong.
My thoughts are that Jordan and Roger are in the cross hairs of the orchestrators of the current takedown of society. They are what I see as people who perceive tradition and handed down philosophies as the core of our culture and there are people who are trying to upset those accepted norms while bringing in a whole new set. LGBT agenda and Political Correctness (being Self Censorship) for instance.
whoever speaks the truth, learned or from intuition, will be persecuted, that is the constant. we live in a wolrd of deceit and where the masses have believed a lie.
Fair or not, truth speakers are often persecuted, don't you think?
“That’s what a culture is, the residue of all those things people have thought worthwhile to preserve”
Sir Roger had a wonderful gift of language that freezes you on the spot. Over and over again.
What a sad loss. RIP.
Agree. His command of the language is superb. RIP Sir Roger.
Hilariously, TH-cam linked me to this video afterwards: "Slavoj Zizek - Why white liberals like to humiliate themselves" and the first thing Zizek said is that ALL culture is horrible! :D :D :D
RIP Sir Roger Scruton, you will be sorely missed.
Surely a monumental model of a well mannered intellectual. I hope he left DNA samples and had donated to a sperm bank.
The world is somewhat porer after his death.
@@חנהקלצקין-ס5ס omg
This discussion is as beautiful as great art.
Delete the first "as" and I'm with you.
That's actually, technically true. Art let's you look at things you already know in a new way, seeing things you didn't know we're there before.
This is a great observation - literature, philosophy, art music, civilized discourse - all of a kind in being for the elevation and betterment of mankind.
I loved the simple way Jordan explained transcendence as fact. Absolutely brilliant. Roger's reference to _"the transition from samsara to brahman"_ is not the same thing that Jordan was speaking of. How so? The transition from the cycle of birth and death (samsara) means you are no longer in the world and so you can't tell anyone about the experience of the Transcendent Reality. Jordan was speaking of glimpses of transcendence in our daily lives. And it happens sometimes when we hear beautiful music or see beautiful art or a performance in a movie or the movie itself. A window is opened by the artist which allows one to peek at the beauty of the Divine. It is why 50,000 people will pay $30 a ticket and fill a stadium to hear their favourite rock idol. We thirst for that which is transcendent as fish out of water wish to be returned to water, its natural habitat.
The problem I see tho; there is not a framework to further these discussions, at least not in the west. The Vedanta sutras has such a framework. But its adoption in the west hasn't been successful so far save perhaps in the field of Artificial Intelligence.
It is the finest art.
Note: two versions of this are up on my channel. This is the uncut original. The other version has different intro music, and a slightly truncated intro. The first upload ran into copyright problems, which have been rectified (I hope -- the problem emerged by error).
How dare you get me excited by thinking there was another discussion up already. Damn reruns.
Wait, the uncut version with the un-truncated intro is 1 second shorter? How does that work? Does it have to do with the rectification of the copyright issues the first one had?
NOTE: Jordan Peterson is an elitist egomaniacal self denying ideologue. Worst of all, a liar. He denies the dangers of global warming. The "gender pronoun" he got famous off of, and said its dangerous. No one has been arrested, jailed or fined for that law. He got famous off of a lie. One TRUTH he himself has said: "I monetized SJWers". Yes. He has monetized the ideological tribalism of the united states. He is dangerous to society. He is in it to make a quick coin.
therock343 Hush child, the adults are talking and you would gain much from listening to this discussion.
@@mangeload You do know entire youtube is a free platform.. and he is literally making money off the videos themselves as well?
R.I.P Roger Scruton. Um gigante!
Fenômeno! A literatura dele vai sobreviver na eternidade
De fato, um gigante!
Sem dúvida nenhuma.
What a privilege to be able to listen to these great wise men and to have the modern means to propagate this knowledge. What an amazing age we are in. We should be grateful every day.
Two brilliant minds we will never see together again.
Whoever filmed and edited this lecture did a fine job, I wish more lecture recordings resembled this level of quality.
Peterson and Scruton, two colossal contemporary thinkers, in my estimation, together in the same room.
Smart and sharp. I throughly enjoyed this. Finding Jordan has opened the door to me finding all these other intellectuals. I feel like I've learnt more in the last year then in the past 10. I am feeling better within myself personally everyday. Personal growth and enlightenment.
That's awesome, glad to hear it. :)
I share some of the sentiments in this comment, and I'm happy for you!
Same for me (“Jordan had opened me up to finding all these other intellectuals”-and there are many, all truly rich experiences
@UCMcQlJQlgBDODllSF1Wi44w john Anderson, Niall Ferguson, his wife Aayan Hirsi Ali, Douglas Murray, Ben Shapiro, Shelby Steele; you will find that the Hoover Institution, Dennis Prager, Joe Rogan (not precisely an intellectual but a great host & an excellent student), and just looking at links off of them, will turn you on to a lot of good people & stuff. Sometimes you’ll want a TH-cam rain storm or ocean waves to recover from all this stimulation!
PS One of the best ever is Jordan Peterson with Camille Paglia
RIP Roger, thank you for for everything.
Seeing Peterson's excitement to share his theories on the topics with Sir Roger brought a smile to my face. JP spends so much of his time in debates with people that don't have the ability or the will to understand what he is trying to say. Here you can tell immediately that JP feels that he has found someone else on his frequency.
I find him annoying to be honest. I do love Roger Scruton though.
@@kristofp72 why do you find him annoying?
@@Ignasimp the way he expresses himself needlessly complicating his message to make it sound more intelligent. Unlike Roger Scruton who's articulate and clear.
@@kristofp72 Not a former conservative, but I'm getting into Scruton recently and I do appreciate him, however I think Peterson is what an intellectual may look to normal folks... Just not on the same level of Scruton or other great academic minds
I clearly don't apprecciate him deeply, but I recognize his important work on helping people
@@kristofp72 I don't usually have any trouble understanding Peterson but I have to admit in this video I had to pause at some point because I couldn't follow.
Sir Roger Scruton, one of the leading lights in conservative philosophy and Prof JBP??? Wow, yes pls, and it's FREE! I'll listen to this whilst clearing the snow methinks! 😁
@John Doe this made me chuckle.
it's FREE!!! isn't that just so awesome! (well sort of) The message seems to downplay the importance of monetization... but in all honesty: it is still funded by supporters (so we get to benefit, I'm grateful for that).
All are pinned with the poppies of memory of World War I sacrifice.
I want the guy who did the intro to narrate my life.
Haha everything said in that voice comes out being golden
He sounds like Marvin from Hitchhiker’s Guide lol
I want him to critique me masturbating
@@AJ-mo6mw this comment deserves like 10,000 likes.
He probably dreams in latin!
So happy for doctor Peterson for doing this. So many more will be exposed to the brilliance of Roger Scruton and maybe pickup one of his books!
I follow scruton. I watch jp occasionally but actually think JP a bit of a show man with little real depth. JP talks a lot and says little
@@itsallminor6133, fair enough...
-
There might be some truth to that; but bare in mind "sometimes the message is so important, that someone needs to make it entertaining; to get more people interested." Currently he's a popular figure/"the hook" to get as many interested as possible; in actually sitting down and listening to the *TRUTH* that other (perhaps stodgier/boring) intellectuals have to offer the masses.
May God keep you, Sir Roger Scruton. You were a visionary and inspiring thinker. You shall be sorely missed.
There will be a day, when all the men in that room will be long gone, but I hope people who are to come won't let this unique moment die. God bless you all.
I'm also anxiously awaiting to hear your lectures on Exodus. You rock! Women listen to you too! Lots of them. :)
Hear hear!🙌
Meow meow
nyan nyan
This comnent is mainly directed at the followers of Jordan Peterson.
Would you dear ladies then please weigh in with EXTENDED comments. You comnents are sorely missed. Ordinary men, (presumed normal/neurotypical, with no know mental diseases) REALLY miss your input. We, (the normal ect.. ) do not know where to draw the lines between neo-marxism and their snowflakes on one side (truely abhorrent, but how numerous?) and e.g. MGTOWS and PUAs on the other side (likewise an entity of unknow size and acceptance among women ).
That do YOU, dear ladies, find acceptable from feminists or MGTOWS, etc. Or how do you see YOUR role in spreading sanity, mutual responsability, and MUTUAL respect between the sexes?
Likewise I would love to see female proper scientists go public with data, in this contentious area. And not leave the definitions and assesments of problem-size, to MGTOWS, lesbian artteachers and ukrainian immigrants, (of cause no offence ment! Your contributions are much appretiated, but we need more generality.)
So ladies please pitch in.
Kindest regards
wtf is he talking about^
And why would he think women would care?
kek
I love these discussions. It is so edifying to me. I cannot express the depth of gratitude I have for men like you and Sir Roger Scruton. In my humble existence, low and I may be, I hunger for this kind of intellectual discourse. It feeds my imagination and encourages me to rise and be my own hero in my story. Thank you!
¡¡Very well put!!
Rosa Brand That is what university education once was.
Excellent!
@@jimlaguardia8185, we must reclaim it and make it so once more! :D
JP has many gifts. One that strikes me is his ability ‘to bring down the truth from on high for the mere mortals’ - he is greater mind than I yet I can follow his thought process every-time - he conceives and articulates beautifully. Time after time I have these eureka moments listening to him and how he describes things. Its as if he can look over walls I cant but can then come back down and describe what he sees to me.
I don’t get this with most other highly intelligent thinkers (including i’m afraid Sir Roger) I become disconnected from the essence of what it is he is trying to convey to me. Thats not to say he isn’t incredibly intelligent and wonderful btw.
This is one reason Jordan has exploded onto the modern landscape I feel. After all the controversy-mongers have gone home the open minded and the curious stay behind to listen (en-masse) and a rare thing occurs. You feel like your listening to a man who is mainlining distilled reality and seeing connections you can’t but who is able to bring it all together and take you on a marvellous epistemological journey with him.
I love it. And I love him!
Nik Hierro I agree with you, Jordan is relatively easy to understand and that’s why he have so much people following him now. I think that this is extremely important, but like in this debate Peterson seems to disconnect from the core of the questions.
Here here! We love you JP for bringing sense and meaning out of the darkness!
Nik, that was very well said. True for me, too. Thank goodness for JP making important things so I can understand them. It's had a real effect on me,too. Good stuff!
Here here
What a wonderful distillation of the joys of listening to JP speak. I concur 100%
The internet is amazing! Wow Peterson and Scruton in conversation. Capitalism is truly magical. Thank you!!!
What a delightful talk of beauty, noble causes and real love towards humanity!!
Gratefully thankful to Dr. Petersen and Sir Roger's masterwork.
Jordan's comments on gratitude around 1:21:20 really struck me to the core. I myself used to do line work in the middle of the winter, and although I was still young and strong, I understood how difficult it can be for those less able-bodied than I was- and none of that even compares to the horrors of history. It truly is a miracle that humanity has triumphed in the way it has. God bless us all.
Mostly men that keep the infrastructure running
Indeed, excellent! Brought a tear to my eye... good on you sir.
Thank you for sharing this, Dr. Peterson. A wonderful philosophical discussion on important matters, without SJWs wasting your time arguing about some common sense basics they should have learnt in school.
Amen.
Ya, he is doing great work monetizing the tribalism in United states and making money feeding it. That's for sure.
John Wick I think the point is that we are not! Being taught these things in school?? I know your upset about you dog but try not to get to distracted .😂😂
Thank you Dr. Jordan Peterson for your ability and drive to deconstruct the chaos around us. Your teachings have profoundly changed my views of the world in a positive way and assess the future much better.
Thank you. Me too!
Thank you, next
Roger that
"How do we coax people back into a life which is based on the recognition of the other rather than the gratification of the self" - Scruton 1h 7m
Can we all just agree that indeed, "you do need a plumber"? I love Peterson's ability to draw deep intellectual concepts out of the mundane. What a privilege to listen to these great thinkers!
It's wonderful, this ability; something we could all attempt to learn.
Both the dignity and humility of these two great thinkers brought me to tears. Life is so wondrous and fragile! This truth is palpable in their words, and the space between. Thank you for sharing these live exchanges . . . of two men who will be etched in History.
Why can we not see conversations like this on BBC? What happened to public service broadcasting? Why do we have to suffer dumbed down rubbish? We have 100 times more first class degrees each year now compared to 1970. So why is intellectual output on media now near zero?
I partly agree. But having more 1st class degrees among the general populous isn't really evidence of anything other than how tertiary education has also been dumbed down. I'd also hazard a guess that discoursing of this nature would be a bit too politically unsound for the BBC.
@@sylaqI admit I was being facetious on degrees. I don't think the general level of intellect has changed for a few thousand years. We did once have intelligent discussion on BBC however. I think they are now actually trying to control events by withholding facts that do not fit their liberal elite agenda on diversity politics, climate change , politics of resentment etc. I now question nearly everything they report on the news as being seen through anti west / virtue signalling agenda. We should make more formal complaints. See Jordan and Bjorn Lomburg.
Isabel Page BBC to be wound up for the benefit of free speech.
This isn’t woke enough for the BBC
Same here in the USA where the “public media” (NPR, i.e., National Public Radio) is just a mouthpiece of the Democratic Party machine.
Thank you gentlemen for sharing an absolutely lovely conversation with the world.
If only the world will listen.
Rest in peace, Sir Roger Scruton.
You are missed and admired.
I listened this many times and it is just simply comforting to hear the voice of wisdom. I am still sad that Sir Roger Scruton is no longer with us. The world is still dark for beauty to be seen by many. Now a light on beauty ceased to shine, the world is a little dimmer than before.
'What's transcendent is more real than the reality you perceive' - JP
Read Huxley's The Doors of Perception, a book Peterson has stated that he's read as well. That sentence you just quoted is pretty much a summation of what Huxley was getting at in that book. Of course, Huxley was on mescaline. *shrugs
It is not an original thought but the way he articulate this by way of high and low resolution is very impressive.
JP has been the most dapper man in the west for a year or so. He arrives in Cambridge and meets all these typically-dishevelled, academic dudes. Immediately buys himself a grotty woollen jumper - well played sir, well played.
He's from Alberta originally so I don't think he would be feeling the cold too much
Imagine having such a miserable life that you dislike this video.
Josue Guzman Now just think and imagine that people dislike this video because they don't think that the topic was addressed properly and that the ideas being expressed had any value.
@thegenie Unless, of course, you have another look at the comment of @masonmmaspecilist, and realise that an incorrect address of the topics at hand could be expressed through ill-formed, "valueless" ideas. In this reading of the comment, the topic is of primary importance, but is misapprehended in a manner that gives rise to these worthless ideas flung at each other by nitwits. How the written word gives rise to multiplicities of interpretations!
Not that I believe that, of course. It would take a very removed or esoteric perspective to see this intellectual interaction in a negative light.
@thegenie Perhaps it might surprise you if I were to tell you I don't make presumptions about a statement with inherent ambiguity. That seems to me to be more than sufficient evidence for projection on your part.
"Nothing to imply more than the contradiction." Sounds an awful lot like you're searching for a contradiction. I'm sure @masonmmaspecilist wouldn't intentionally contradict himself, don't you think?
@thegenie And your solution is to belittle and degrade while considering yourself 'of the good guys'?
The position works like this - all transcendentalisms (not just the ancient Greek type) are mysticisms, with no grounding in the verifiable universe. Therefore 'the topic was not addressed properly' simply because that issue was not addressed, but avoided. The 'ideas being expressed' were to support those of religious mysticism and, therefore, don't have any value outside of the closed system of 'religious belief' (ie. the whole discussion is set-up of buddy hugging for people of the same prejudices or beliefs).
Now - you may have been able, with a little amount of insight and concern, to deduce this position from the comment. Still, you, perhaps, would not have been to offload your libidinal trash had you done so.
I hope we can still be friends?
@@stueyapstuey4235 Hi. My name's Jake- I'd like to respond to part of your response.
"all transcendentalisms (not just the ancient Greek type) are mysticisms, with no grounding in the verifiable universe."
First of all I congratulate you on your cogent outlining of the opposing position. That is indeed the rational empiricist view of the transcendental as such, and I don't know when I've heard it put so succinctly before. You are clearly gifted.
However, I have two items for you in this response, an observation and a question, in that order.
A) I think you'll find should you examine the corpus of Dr. Peterson's work (and perhaps Sir Scruton's; I'm not as familiar with his) that his claims about the physical, immediate and biologically/physiologically verifiable existence and manifestation of the transcendent as a function of consciousness (itself being some adapted and evolved trait) are actually rather robust. Our eyes developing their outstanding capacity for color distinction, for instance, is largely due to the need to distinguish between different types of vegetable/fruit (edible vs. poisonous) and foods in general- the result of that development for seeing color being that we attribute significance or meaning to objects of one color versus another. The attribution of meaning to objects could therefore be construed as an evolutionary adaptation.
I won't go into his whole body of work of course but I think his overall position on the matter of whether or not transcendentalisms have any grounding in the verifiable universe might be summarized this way: that we imbue things, events and people with meaning cannot be a mistake or accident, in the way that the design of a bat's wing or whale's tail is no accident. Evolutionary forces pressed on our physiology and shaped how our brains perceive and interact with the physical world; consciousness might therefore be characterized as a sort of autonomic compass or schematic that allows us to navigate the world of objects safely (for the most part) by transforming it into a world of meaningful objects. Meaning and the search/invention for/of meaning (by definition a transcendentalism) is a necessary symptom of consciousness and the two cannot be separated. Man's search for or imbuement of meaning in the mundane (or the verifiable universe, however you'd care to characterize it) cannot be stripped from the phenomenon of consciousness, and vice versa.
A') I believe that the issue not addressed here, as you put it, was ignored not out of avoidance or deception (purposeful or otherwise), but because for two such men in such fields the issue is a bit of a nonstarter. You call it "buddy-hugging" but I call it two men beginning the conversation where it begins FOR THEM.
"The 'ideas being expressed' were to support those of religious mysticism and, therefore, don't have any value outside of the closed system of 'religious belief'" I would again encourage you to further examine Peterson's own work on the evolutionary origin and value of religious thought and systems and the work of others he extols; particularly that of Jaak Panksepp the Estonian neuroscientist and psychobiologist and Mircea Eliade the Romanian historian of religion and professor at the University of Chicago.
The works by these men relevant to this issue are listed below. I found them to be transformative of my understanding of the workings of the brain and their relation to large-scale social phenomena like religious belief and experience.
www.amazon.com/Affective-Neuroscience-Foundations-Emotions-Science-ebook/dp/B00590X4HM
www.amazon.com/Emotional-Foundations-Personality-Neurobiological-Evolutionary/dp/0393710572
www.amazon.com/Sacred-Profane-Nature-Religion/dp/015679201X
B) are you truly a rationalist empiricist? You sound as though you believe you are. I mean, you deftly argue for the opposing position, there can be no question of that- but, from your responses, I'm not sure I'm any closer to how you think or what you believe as an individual. I can't quite grasp why you think it's self-evident that these men would be nitwits for desiring to contend with the transcendental or the religious or even the quasi-religious. Can you tell me more about what you think about what they said? And if you would, address this thing you said, "...and realise that an incorrect address of the topics at hand could be expressed through ill-formed, "valueless" ideas."
I contend that the title and topic of this talk was kept purposefully ambiguous so as to free Dr. Peterson and Sir Scruton entirely from any preconceptions regarding the transcendental other than their own: "Apprehending the Transcendental". The second part of my question to you is this: if you believe the transcendental as here described is all a bunch of hooey (which is what it sounds like you think), why would you watch a video titled "Apprehending the Transcendental"? If the transcendental is only relevant inside the "closed system of religious belief" and is therefore not worth discussing critically at length as you appear to claim, why would you waste your time watching (and by virtue of watching, taking part in) such a conversation?
I apologize for that other guy's beastly way of communicating. Thank you for taking the time to read and consider what I've written here. Even if we disagree I think it's pleasant and important to value one another's time and input.
Hoping you find all this mildly less beastly,
Jake Rigdon
God bless Sir Roger Scruton. Requiescat In Pace.
Just bursted into tears realizing from the comments that Sir Roger passed ten days ago. I hope he had Bach's mass played when he joined with the Transcendent. You will be missed, good Sir.
This is brilliant collab!!! Sir Roger Scruton & Dr. Jordan Peterson. Amazing
I love the way Sir Roger Scruton claims, "I have appropriated the idea of the ENGLISH GENTLEMAN and I have tried to make myself be it!!" AMEN
Elke Summer It's Scruton that said that.
@@sylaq oops...I edited that !!
"Man is only a reed, the most feeble thing in nature, but he is a thinking reed.
The entire universe need not arm itself to crush him. A vapour, a drop of water suffices to kill him.
But, if the universe were to crush him, man would still be more noble than that which killed him, because he knows that he dies and the advantage which the universe has over him; the universe knows nothing of this.
All our dignity then, consists in thought.
By it we must elevate ourselves, and not by space and time which we cannot fill.
Let us endeavour then to think well; for this is the principle of morality."
Blaise Pascal, "Pensées"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise_Pascal
This was a true conversation in which each of them handed the baton around and carried on fluidly, and used each other's comments to inspire their own. Brilliant!
RIP Sir Roger Scruton, I could listen to him for hours and hours. I've never read him, but I'm excited to read a contemporary philosopher that's so very different in opinions from others. God bless him.
Beautiful conversation. Thank you so much for sharing and for what you do.
Farewell to Sir Roger Scruton. What a loss. Do people in the UK have any idea what a gem they had? Not enough, alas. If he was French, they would have a national day of mourning.
@Gareth Lloyd Just think of the young boys that he allegedly abused. Don't they deserve justice?
Abraham Tsfaye I cant find any information on these allegations?
@kirwi I'm thinking of Roger Scruton. Those poor boys that he buggered won't have justice now that he is dead.
@Gareth Lloyd No more or less than anyone else. Speak for yourself
@@Abraham_Tsfaye Where's the evidence that Scruton abused kids?
Scruton's discussion on link between morality, beauty and why we need them is fantastic. Especially as he makes the case that neither are as subjective as one thinks. Beauty is not in the eye of the beholder.
As a plumber, I am humbled and highly honored to have Jordan exalt and exonerate us for the best intentions
Great dialogue. Love it. May Sir Roger Scruton's soul rest in eternal peace.
I like watching Jordon Peterson have a long discussion with other very intelligent people. Rather than some slow tv show host who constantly questions him and tries to corner him into sayings things well constantly interrupting him.
Why have I just found about this? Two magnificent intellectual giants talking about the Transcendentals. What a gift!
Waited for this conversation for 4 years. I'm so happy it happened. Knew that the 2 of them would click. Thank you Jordan and Roger!
The quiet, courteous, and respectful intelligence of this moderator, Stephen Blackwood is the final perfect touch to this stupendously wonderful discussion by two of the finest minds of the 20th-21st century. How lucky are we all that this was brought about before Sir Roger died. How privileged we are, and how grateful, judging by the wonderful comments below. To think that technology allows us to spend an hour and a half with these two (three really) men, to be stimulated and enthralled by the best of our Western culture. I feel so blessed.
RIP Sir Roger, a truly great man. I could have watched this discussion for hours and never grown tired of hearing such profundity, such, eloquence, such compassion, such intellect.
There is so much I could write about this extraordinary conversation between two pre-eminent thinkers of our time that I will instead compliment the moderator, Dr Stephen Blackburn who is passionately engaged by its themes. He contributes through his searching questions which allow the speakers to explore in depth and with freedom the nature and value of the transcendent.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Eternal rest grant unto Roger, oh Lord,
and may perpetual light shine upon him.
May his soul, through the mercy of God,
Rest In Peace.
Amen
RIP Sir Roger! One of my favourite Conservative thinkers of our time. We are poorer for his passing.
its like watching a young philosopher discussing ideas with a wise old man. RIP Sir Roger Scruton
I'am so thankful to be alive in this era where so much wisdom is available for anyone regardles of the human condition...listening all of this has really helped me guiding my life...thanks Jordan!!!
I love reading so much. The first time I read a book from start to finish was at age 21. I would cheat all through school. I'm turning 25 in a few days and God do I love reading now. I just wish young men like me would force themselves to read (not listen to audiobook) just so they can grow their reading skills. I would suggest everyone to start with George Orwell. But he's not even my favorite author, although he is a great.
@Y T way to self congratulate. Apparently none of those books were on humility lmao. Plus there are plenty of other valuable experiences one can have that would equate to a rich childhood without having read. One can be improverished of actual reality outside of books.
@Y T lmao
Y T Y T I wasn't offended at all. I felt sorry for YOU to be honest. The need to tell someone they had an impoverished childhood only so you could brag about the number you had read. I also never said I had an impoverished childhood. Nor did I clim that I lacked access to books. The self esteem thing is clearly a projection of how you feel which would also connect to your need to belittle and brag. Finally, despite your great fortune of not having an impoverished/bookless childhood, you still manage to expose yourself as quite the foolish clown by putting words in my mouth as your best attempt at an attack. Sad really. Have a lovely life.
I've always been a literature fan; mostly classic fictional novels, but literature in general is quite amazing. It's a shame you didn't realize such a thing until 25, but it's never too late as proven by the fact that you have now discovered what a joy reading and literature can be.
There are so many things that go in to it on so many levels; countless interpretations, perspectives, and ideas both from the author and the reader, sometimes completely unrelated.
Interpreting words that make up a story is such a personal journey, and it's absolutely beautiful that something such as standardized language can be interpreted in such a personal manner.
@Y T is it? I don't see younger people with issues marathoning video games.
Is it the attention span getting smaller, or less things requiring long spans of attention? I would argue that a part of that "problem" is the fact that things are now designed in that manner. When everything caters to those who don't stay focused on one thing for long, is it really a problem? That could just be us dinosaurs not getting with the times.
Personally I do think it's a problem and I don't believe what I just stated, but I can't say it's an invalid point either.
As long as the select few do have the dedication and focus to develop things that the most spastic of people can use efficiently, it isn't much of a problem. Of course that relies on those select few, which isn't necessarily a great idea either. But I think this is less of a single issue, and a coalescing of many different issues and perspectives all colliding together in a way that is quite different to anything we've really seen before. The question is whether it's sustainable or not. The real problems come if it isn't, because then the floor collapses under us and most of the populous has no means to recover... But again, we are choosing to put ourselves in that position (in general; obviously you and I don't think it's a great spot) and we don't even know if it will collapse.
It's all a matter of perspective, and we won't know if we're fucked or not until it's too late. So strap in; we're in for a hell of a ride. Whether it's to the top at rocket speed or straight to the ground I have no idea... But we are in the midst of fascinating times.
For reference regarding my perspective, I'm 26 years old. However, the internet was a huge part of my life starting from when I was 4, so I may have a more understanding view in that regard.
Love Mr. Scruton!! Thank you!
Incredible discourse, incredibly enlightening,
Thank you to all who made this possible.
Incredibly grateful to have open access to such high level thinkers in my own home.
GTG now and add more order and beauty to my bedroom :-)
Much love
Namaste
Such a beautiful response, I've been thinking about this particularly today and found that sometimes I have preferred to stay at home listening to intelectual lectures than going out to party with friends, instead i schedule them for lunch. My life has improved tremendously and my health. I feel incredibly greatful to have internet and be able to visit this content in the commodity of my room. Cheers mate.
Absolutely beautiful. God bless these men. Thank you for everything. Sir Roger, may God bless his soul, and Jordan are already transcendent.
It’s unbelievable to me that there can be 90 minute conversations of this sort where the entirety of the conversation is packed with substance and interplay and a grappling with big ideas in pursuit of the truth. These two men deserve our acclaim. May Sir Roger Scruton Rest In Peace and may God be with Dr. Peterson as he continues his recovery to good health.
We were encouraged to hate Scruton as a right wing bigot, how unenlightened we were, how political lightweightscould sway the vunerable to political conformity in the 1980s
.
Well said.
Because the lightweights are there to serve the interests that run the system from the real place of power, the king makers the mass media owners mega corporations and ideological cliques. If you vote for one thing for 70 years and get the opposite of it, you aren't in power regardless of wether your vote chooses the man or not.
@@advocate1563 66⁶⁴eeŕ⁴4rr⁵4wuxcdd
The eighties and ever since..
This is one of the most moving things I've ever heard. I just want to be a better person listening to it.
Thank you all for this. I have been a musician dedicated to beauty for many years with hopes of bringing joy and enlightenment to others, and now I face the challenges that you describe coursing through the very institutions and works which have inspired me all my life. Hearing you discuss this is enough in this moment. A very welcome gift!
So delighted to have happened upon this dialogue. It is a University level lecture that covers many disciplines. What a treasure. ❤
Watching this and listening to these two great men for 90 minutes was a better use of my time that anything I can think of.
It's a rare moment when Jordan Peterson looks somehow a highly comptetent student in comparison to Sir. Roger. There was something weighty about the latter. I think it is a combination of aging gracefully, having strong sense of faith, and of course his knowledge---so calm, cool, and collected. Yet there was a moment when JP was at his best. We need more of this kind of discussion. In my humble opinion, I though it must have been nerve wrecking to sit between two gaint but the moderator got to do better than that. All in all, very good discussion. Thanks 😊
Roger Scruton is, in my humble view, a more heavy-weighted person, more arguments and more persuasive, when he wills
@@yohanessaputra9274 He was a giant.
@@bugglebegger143
I wrote this 2 years ago. Some of us thought, JP will be a force to be reckon. And yet he became one of those who advocate for the jab. For some mysterious reason, despite the reactions we witnessed of those who took the jab, very similar to his own reaction to the prescription he was taking, instead of saying NO to the jab now he is advocating for it. We know he has just recovered from that hellish state of mind he was in and which almost killed him. And now to prsecribe to people this jab, which has similar effect, is beyond anything rational.
Cleaned my room soon as I got the notification. Now I can watch the video.
Edit: Oh thanks for the subs + likes on my latest JBP videos
Please clean my room too.
You are supposed to clean your room and make it beautiful too. It is the new 13th rule. You should have watched whole video before commenting.
I cleaned my room while listening to this conversation, I think that's much efficient way to do it.
@@TimoNoko I'm allowing my room to return to chaos, so that when I finally clean it, the improvement will be that much more satisfying.
I'll try that next time! @@deb783
These gentlemen are looking real class in their suits. JBP has really stepped his game up the past year; he always has an enviable wardrobe.
They certainly look well and the venue architecture certainly perpetuates what one would imagine of the surroundings for these conversations.
and Dr P has a new barber.
he's thinner
He earned it
@@TheActiveAssault From Patreon mostly... which begs for all kinds of work...
Humbled and honored to be able to view such a beautiful encounter between two prominent thinkers.
Meaning is the portal to transcendence. I cannot agree more Dr.
Peterson.
I feel privileged and grateful to be able to watch these great minds share wisdom.
What an unbelievably comfy video to discover on Christmas Day , with a glass of sherry and a mince pie in hand. Thank you Dr Peterson and Sir Roger for doing this. Very inspirational and thought provoking.
Absolutely excellent. So wonderful to see these two brilliant men in conversation together. Roger Scruton has a brilliant documentary, originally on BBC and now available on TH-cam, called 'Why Beauty Matters'. This was my introduction to the man. I would highly recommend it. Thank you Dr. Peterson for uploading this and for everything you have done and are doing.
@Oliver William Lopresti Thanks for the recommendation Oliver, I will check it out.
I can only imagine how much better this would have been with a brilliant woman or two as well. Can't believe there was none in all of Cambridge.
Tremendous all the way through! What a joy to witness the insight shared in this gentlemen's exchange.
This is such a beautiful convo, both Roger and Peterson are straight class. It’s an absolute privilege to hear them converse.
Jordan, I am so happy you had the opportunity to sit down with Mr. Scruton for such a conversation. Priceless.
I wish I were on this level, but I understood enough to know learning and teaching ourselves to understand the basics and teach love and understanding to our youth is paramount.
Very few people on earth are on this level, but Love and redemption does seem to be a reoccurring theme in both Sir Roger’s and Jordan Peterson’s lectures.
Fantastic conversation...so much value it boggles the mind. Thank you all for the wonderful insights you have contributed
Such an underrated conversation of both Peterson and Scruton. Multiple times throughout this video I've experienced 'a portal through the transcendence', as they so beautifully described it. I will definitely come back to this video and rewatch it and no doubt find even more portals that were previously hidden for me.
When I was 13, watching this talk, I did not understand a single thing and therefore turned it off, but when I revisited it a year later, I was blown away by the sheer amount of
valuable information contained in this gem; this was quite an enlightening talk.
It's right time we heard grown men discussing and defending forgiveness, redemption, and reconciliation.
All this conversation brought tears of joy to my eyes. Keep the good amazing godly work! 💕 Thank you! 💕
The intro is REALLY beautiful. Downright breathtaking.
Took more than 10 seconds, skipped ahead.
I think it's Glen Gould playing The Goldberg Variations.
Bach Toccata and Fugue in D Minor
@@holysecret2 Yes, it's the Fugue as transcribed by Busoni and played by Gerhard Oppitz.
"What's transcendent is more real than the reality you perceive."
reality which is things real and defines the notion of real is less real than a thing which is not it???? Really
Yes indeed. The very act of conceptualisation itself creates the 'low resolution representation' that Jordan refers to.
We do it automatically and then totally ignore what we've just done.
@@strangetranceoffaith Humans perceive 4 dimensions: length, width, depth (psychical) and time (temporal) whilst string theory, for example, works on 10 dimensions. A being that exists on such a scale would be therefore be classified as transcendent and more real than we are; they exist and perceive more levels of reality than we can comprehend.
Had the honor of meeting Sir Roger Scruton about ten years ago at a small private dinner where he spoke. I didn’t appreciate then the greatness I was witnessing.
Beautiful. Such a refreshing conversation between truly thoughtful minds.
May Sir Roger Scruton rest in peace. We lose a great heart and the heavens gain a great soul.
"When people loose some transcendental Faith, that they automatically fall into this great pit of resentment, to try and find the oppressor in every relationship" ~ Sir Roger Scruton. A great truth, and this fall started with the 30 pieces of silver. Something like the first bite of the "apple"
A very pleasurable moment in time, in this moment are many openings and light. The darkness was driven back for at least a little while, thank you. It will be remembered by many.
Absolutely brilliant! Such a pleasure to listen and feel intellectually challenged. The comments left below have renewed my faith in the human condition, in these trying times. I only wish there were more people, like those that left these comments, in my daily life. As a fellow Canadian I never tire of listening to my co-patriot Dr. Peterson. Thank you!
Really enjoyed this! My brain hurts a little now. :) I admire both speakers. This is the sort of content I enjoy watching of JP, where he's able to articulate without being interrupted by some vastly inferior intellect. His time is wasted on those individuals (or should I say social groups). Keep up the great work and please keep inspiring the individual to find her/his full potential.