I suddenly remembered Vogue's "September Issue" documentary. Anna Wintour told the cameraman to "go to the gym" because his belly was bulging (which is normal!) in the photoshoot he modeled in. Good thing Grace swooped in to post-prod to not edit the photo, and told the cameraman that he is good as he is. Seriously, the fashion world is so toxic and out of touch with reality.
@@matangkadnakapre in that case, she knew the cameras were there, and I think she was trying to be funny, but you can imagine what is said when there are no cameras rolling
As a photographer (for many years) ... We do not like when the piece of work is submitted, that changes are made !!!! But we are under contract (in most cases) and the piece of work is Owned by the entity which, We are under contract with .... "Therein Lies the Rub" ThankYou for Your Material n Personal Take on this Conundrum !!!!! :) :) :)
Yes that part makes it difficult, but the magazine should not have done this without him knowing. I’m sure Greg would have rather removed the image than have his name on work that he wasn’t responsible for
@@THEMODELGENE Sometimes, Or quite often , (and I am not Privy to the contractual agreement for this assignment) whoever contracted the assignment, may have owned everything that was shot, n had the rights to do as they considered with the (maybe all) files that were produced at this job... Quite often these type of shoots,, the contractor had a editor there and saw what was on the tethered monitor (and maybe took a memory card from the shoot).... I am not disputing how Greg may have felt,, or did feel.... This a conundrum I have personally seen, n had....This brings up the Question that Journalists have about ANY type of EDITING of the File,, "At ALL" !!!! I am in no way arguing, or debating with You,, My Friend I do enjoy what You do,, So Well !!!! And look forward to more videos !!! Lets Be Happy!!! And Enjoy Life :) :) :)
@@johnyoung1606 Thanks John! I have heard how the contracts at many publications have become increasingly greedy, preventing photographers to use their own work for retrospectives, personal books, etc.
@@THEMODELGENE Yes that and Much More ..... I went Pro in 1969 n the Corporations were telling the Employee or Contract Employee,, What n How to do the Job or Assignment... You might be surprised that these parameters have existed well before You n I were born !!!!! :) :) :)
@@johnyoung1606 that is a lot of the reason why I love Avedon’s commercial work so much; the clients understood that he knew best and many would give him free reign on the creative, like Jun Ropé.
As a photographer i would of got the model to lean forward slightly and relax, hence the re-touching would of been unnecessary. But you are right about the skinny model still being the ' stupid thought process of the model agency' .
After having worked at an agency in NYC and being a model scout, I wish it was coming from the agencies, but it is the clients who won't book the models unless they are super skinny. It would be a lot easier for the agencies if the models were slightly bigger, because then they could more easily find beautiful girls to make money off of, but it is a constant struggle with the standard hip size being too small.
Nice video, interesting take (actually, I don't mean, _interesting_ (side eye)). I feel the slight is more towards Greg Kadel than Karlie though. Obviously, the channel being geared primarily towards the model perspective, I understand addressing this from that angle. At the end of the day, the creator of the work is the owner and responsible party for the work, had he been the one to choose to retouch out ribs it would've been a creative decision well within the natural rights of anyone who makes anything, be it photographer and model or sculptor and clay. It kind of feels like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation too though... "She's too skinny, and representing an unachievable standard of beauty." (even though the cream of the crop don't set standards, they set ceilings) So they retouch out the ribs, then we end up have this argument. I think it's a worthwhile discussion, but only if discussed with a goal of finding some final truth. Art school style C&C's are perfect for this (God I miss those). Simply, "this works for me because ____," "this doesn't work for me because ____," "I don't understand ____," "the feelings this gives me are ____."
Thanks for your comment, and yes I agree, it was very much a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation, but Greg not being made aware of the changes before it went to print it a big part of the problem. He didn’t have the opportunity to fight argue with the magazine before they made the decision, or ask to have it removed rather than modified.
I think the original photo was magnificent. It seems like this was not a case of dodge and burn or frequency sep gone too far. This seems like at total re-render.
Ribs and other bones will have shadows. Those are controllable in lighting as well as local or overall contrast on processing raw images. For me that image is not the best but that choice to publish is not mine. I have seen pictures of Karli with such nice muscles on her svelte long body. A beautiful model and person, who doesn't need to be judged for being thin. The magazine just decided that because of the image selected it would be in the best interest to reduce the shadows. Whoever did the retouhing went too far!
@@THEMODELGENE It was a while ago, but the major magazine had you sign a contract which stated they had the right to manipulate images as they liked without pre-approval.
Thank you! For the colorism video, it’s such a big topic, I am struggling on what to include and what to leave out in this first one, but I think it will be part of a series of videos.
For the beginnings of my career, there was no photoshop on my side, clients immediately took the negs and then went off to retouch to their standards and I was not thrilled about it. Some clients see your best effort as a starting point. Like looking at a model, they get dresssed, painted and posed, not just standing there like they do everyday. Many authors hit the bottle after their baby is turned into a Disney popcorn film, so you learn to live with it and the paycheck, or you stop doing it.
oooo very interesting one here and I look forward to your future investigation of these issues. I agree with a comment about how the pose and lighting accentuated her thinness. I feel the fact that the photographer also thought that it was beautiful enough to submit is another symptom of this problem of idealizing an unhealthy body type. Also hilarious that her agency lies about her height when it's so well known. wtf.
I thought the title was brilliant, myself. High irony (about the notion of “clickbait”). Thus was NOT clickbait in the sense of “false advertising”- not as I see it, at any rate… it was woven quite literally into the video content (ie., what amounts to, and who is doing any “falsification”). I loved the video title.
They expect someone so thin to not show bones in that pose… the unreal expectations of the industry
The irony!
I suddenly remembered Vogue's "September Issue" documentary. Anna Wintour told the cameraman to "go to the gym" because his belly was bulging (which is normal!) in the photoshoot he modeled in. Good thing Grace swooped in to post-prod to not edit the photo, and told the cameraman that he is good as he is. Seriously, the fashion world is so toxic and out of touch with reality.
@@matangkadnakapre in that case, she knew the cameras were there, and I think she was trying to be funny, but you can imagine what is said when there are no cameras rolling
Many people, not only but especially some athletes (depending on the sport) naturally have ribs showing at “normal weight.”
especially raising your arms in that pose
As a photographer (for many years) ... We do not like when the piece of work is submitted, that changes are made !!!! But we are under contract (in most cases) and the piece of work is Owned by the entity which, We are under contract with .... "Therein Lies the Rub" ThankYou for Your Material n Personal Take on this Conundrum !!!!! :) :) :)
Yes that part makes it difficult, but the magazine should not have done this without him knowing. I’m sure Greg would have rather removed the image than have his name on work that he wasn’t responsible for
@@THEMODELGENE Sometimes, Or quite often , (and I am not Privy to the contractual agreement for this assignment) whoever contracted the assignment, may have owned everything that was shot, n had the rights to do as they considered with the (maybe all) files that were produced at this job... Quite often these type of shoots,, the contractor had a editor there and saw what was on the tethered monitor (and maybe took a memory card from the shoot).... I am not disputing how Greg may have felt,, or did feel.... This a conundrum I have personally seen, n had....This brings up the Question that Journalists have about ANY type of EDITING of the File,, "At ALL" !!!! I am in no way arguing, or debating with You,, My Friend I do enjoy what You do,, So Well !!!! And look forward to more videos !!! Lets Be Happy!!! And Enjoy Life :) :) :)
@@johnyoung1606 Thanks John! I have heard how the contracts at many publications have become increasingly greedy, preventing photographers to use their own work for retrospectives, personal books, etc.
@@THEMODELGENE Yes that and Much More ..... I went Pro in 1969 n the Corporations were telling the Employee or Contract Employee,, What n How to do the Job or Assignment... You might be surprised that these parameters have existed well before You n I were born !!!!! :) :) :)
@@johnyoung1606 that is a lot of the reason why I love Avedon’s commercial work so much; the clients understood that he knew best and many would give him free reign on the creative, like Jun Ropé.
Hia
I agree, photo retouching is a whole deal all on its own
Speaking as a woman
It is a messy situation here! I can almost understand the thought process of the magazine editors, but still, its not ok
As a photographer i would of got the model to lean forward slightly and relax, hence the re-touching would of been unnecessary. But you are right about the skinny model still being the ' stupid thought process of the model agency' .
After having worked at an agency in NYC and being a model scout, I wish it was coming from the agencies, but it is the clients who won't book the models unless they are super skinny. It would be a lot easier for the agencies if the models were slightly bigger, because then they could more easily find beautiful girls to make money off of, but it is a constant struggle with the standard hip size being too small.
Nice video, interesting take (actually, I don't mean, _interesting_ (side eye)).
I feel the slight is more towards Greg Kadel than Karlie though. Obviously, the channel being geared primarily towards the model perspective, I understand addressing this from that angle. At the end of the day, the creator of the work is the owner and responsible party for the work, had he been the one to choose to retouch out ribs it would've been a creative decision well within the natural rights of anyone who makes anything, be it photographer and model or sculptor and clay.
It kind of feels like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation too though...
"She's too skinny, and representing an unachievable standard of beauty." (even though the cream of the crop don't set standards, they set ceilings) So they retouch out the ribs, then we end up have this argument. I think it's a worthwhile discussion, but only if discussed with a goal of finding some final truth. Art school style C&C's are perfect for this (God I miss those). Simply, "this works for me because ____," "this doesn't work for me because ____," "I don't understand ____," "the feelings this gives me are ____."
Thanks for your comment, and yes I agree, it was very much a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation, but Greg not being made aware of the changes before it went to print it a big part of the problem. He didn’t have the opportunity to fight argue with the magazine before they made the decision, or ask to have it removed rather than modified.
I think the original photo was magnificent. It seems like this was not a case of dodge and burn or frequency sep gone too far. This seems like at total re-render.
The magazine’s version does feel very off to me
Ribs and other bones will have shadows. Those are controllable in lighting as well as local or overall contrast on processing raw images. For me that image is not the best but that choice to publish is not mine. I have seen pictures of Karli with such nice muscles on her svelte long body. A beautiful model and person, who doesn't need to be judged for being thin. The magazine just decided that because of the image selected it would be in the best interest to reduce the shadows. Whoever did the retouhing went too far!
I find it weird that it wasn’t a discussion with the photographer, he didn’t know they were going to do that!
@@THEMODELGENE It was a while ago, but the major magazine had you sign a contract which stated they had the right to manipulate images as they liked without pre-approval.
Great video as always. Keep exposing the facts ❤. By the way when will you be posting the colorism video 📹 I'm excited 😊
Thank you! For the colorism video, it’s such a big topic, I am struggling on what to include and what to leave out in this first one, but I think it will be part of a series of videos.
For the beginnings of my career, there was no photoshop on my side, clients immediately took the negs and then went off to retouch to their standards and I was not thrilled about it. Some clients see your best effort as a starting point. Like looking at a model, they get dresssed, painted and posed, not just standing there like they do everyday. Many authors hit the bottle after their baby is turned into a Disney popcorn film, so you learn to live with it and the paycheck, or you stop doing it.
It is strange that clients will hire an artist for their art, then modify it. It is a common practice but shouldn’t be.
great video!
@@drugstore999cowgrl thanks!
oooo very interesting one here and I look forward to your future investigation of these issues. I agree with a comment about how the pose and lighting accentuated her thinness. I feel the fact that the photographer also thought that it was beautiful enough to submit is another symptom of this problem of idealizing an unhealthy body type.
Also hilarious that her agency lies about her height when it's so well known. wtf.
Good point! Yeah, lying about her height is so silly 🤪
Remember the sisters (at least one) who died during a major Italian runway show. Both ate nothing but a few pieces of lettuce, ice and facial tissues.
That’s not uncommon. I know a very successful model who only ate one bell pepper a day, another who only ate miso soup
thanks for the clickbait i guess
Yes, I assumed she actually had a rib surgically removed
I thought the title was brilliant, myself. High irony (about the notion of “clickbait”). Thus was NOT clickbait in the sense of “false advertising”- not as I see it, at any rate… it was woven quite literally into the video content (ie., what amounts to, and who is doing any “falsification”). I loved the video title.
So wrong 😔