This does need an update. Warriors over druids for aoe tanking. I have a druid tank and aoe threat Gen is clearly the worst of all the tanking specs even if you sacrifice Stam for agi
Won't be the same, even logging on now to classic TBC see everyone is so sweaty and everyone already has the game completely figured out, it's just not the same as back in the day.
@@nolabets3130 bah, I don't really care. I'm what most people would consider casual nowadays. I had my time being a sweat lord then. But going through all of WotLK as a DK like when they used to be then, even on my own, I'll gladly do it all over again.
You have DK threat mixed up. Their Aoe Threat is really not so great, unless you are a unholy tank(which you hopefully are not). Death and decay does a really nice amount of threat, especially with 2pTier10, but the downside is that it has a 30 second cooldown. Their single target threat however is by far the best in the game. Just spam icy touch and i guarantee that no dps/other tank will come close to your threat.
Mmm as a pally tank from Wrath who ran a frost tank alt I can say the DK when binding rune strike to everything makes unmatched threat. I could hit the threat cap on my paladin after about half a ICC25HC boss fight in 275 (no 277 libram existed and no LK25HC weapon) but my DK at like 250 could make 20-30%+ threat over my paladin. That said it depends on how good the player is, I met a warrior in Ulduar one day who had better AoE threat than anyone I've ever met in the game. (And I've pugged with some top 50 EU guilds on their alt runs)
@@M5_Zybka Feral is great dude. Solid AOE threat(rotate mauls and you'll be ok), solid single target, reliable mitigation and good cooldowns. Their best quality is their scaling with stamina and armour. With tier 10 and armour items you'll be armour capped without having to use PTS or unidentifiable organ. You'll also have like 80k health without Garrosh buff
I got my first taste of tanking in Wrath, and I have continued to tank in both Classic and Classic TBC, one thing people often overlook when discussing tanking in Wrath, is that threat was much less of an issue, Blizz hugely buffed the threat generation of tanks in Wrath compared to Vanilla and TBC, so realistically, any aoe coming from the tank was likely enough to hold aggro, even something as simple as using Thunderclap off cooldown. I think we might see an over abundance of tanks in Classic Wrath, not only with the popularity of Paladins and the easier time they have, but also from people looking to take advantage of instant groups from the LFG system, especially if it is added from the start.
Nah, not over abundance. That's simply because most people still like doing damage instead of tanking, despite it being better. What do you benefit from faster group finding when you aren't doing what you want to do? EDIT: I will also add that if there are a lot of tanks in the pool, people are more likely to roll DPS because they know they don't need to wait for a long time to find a tank. So tank and healer have those golden lines which keep their player counts healthy.
For the most part yes, but druid tanks are still severely lacking in aoe threat. If blizzard buffed the threat generation of swipe, it'd make a big difference in their ability to tank dungeons or fights with lots of adds.
This video also doesn't take into account druid self healing which makes a very big difference in dmg mitigation, especially large groups of mobs, but the self healing doesn't add any threat or it'd bear impossible to pull aggro on a bear tank without having about 1k gs over the bear tank.
Blood dk aoe threat is very very bad. Unholy and frost are good, but blood is literaly only good for boss tanking. Also druids have highest hp and armor in the game. Rankings at the end are good.
I am playing by feral tank in tbc,and after checking this video I started to be scary about my spot in a raid as a feral tank. I hope that guild will save me a spot as a feral tank and won’t use only dk+ pally for tanking =| .
@@M5_Zybka no need to worry, bear is great, best tanks for some fights like lich king and heavy physical dmg bosses, due to higher armor and stamina then other tanks.
@@12345recovery Frost and Unholy weren't tanks with the later patches of wotlk which based on Classic and TBC Classic is what we'll be getting. Frost and UH will be dps, maybe with minor OT ability similar to dps warriors/ferals.
@@dfcd1432 i have tanked whole icc 10/25 as blood, frost and unholy, and did it with success. Unholy tank on Sindra is OP. Also tanked it all as warr, pala and bear. If you are min maxing then there will be compositions, if you want to have fun you can still clear it how you like it
One thing you did miss from the paladin, and arguably one of the best QOL changes from TBC was the talent 'touched by the light' this gave Spell power equal to up to 60% of your strength, this meant paladins no longer had to gimp their mitigation in order to generate enough spell power to hold threat and could actually use tank weapons Funny story about that talent, it was originally equal to stamina not strength - Protholy paladin was insane OP in arena, one Flash of Light would heal anyone to full if it critted, funny enough it got nerfed really quick!
I kept telling people I remember prot/holy being so op cuz it can heal anyone to full hp in 1 cast and it had infinite mana cuz of divine plea refresh talent in prot, none seems to remember that to a point i started questioning myself if it was another expansion. I remember the bug a week or two before dual talents were introduced where warriors would specc fury equip 2x 2handed weapons and spec arms, they would be arms dualwielding 2hands.. it only lasted a few days tho. that was fun, cant seem to find a video of it anywhere
For me maining a Prot Pally in TBC Classic right now that's actually a downside change to me. I like the super unique "flavor" of using true spell power items. I want to gear in a unique way, balancing threat and mitigation. I don't want to just be a warrior with a gimmick.
@@dfcd1432 You are not gimmicky. If anything prot palas have the most choice. Hand of Salvation is great if you have plenty of aggro, in that if you glyph it and use it on yourself you can reduce your damage taken at the cost of aggro. Incredibly fun to use skillfully.
@@icebox1954 Gameplay and class flavor aren't the same. I know Prot Paladins are the best tank, but one of the entire things that made them cool in tbc was how unique their gearing was.
You failed to mention that Thunderclap was buffed in 2 major ways. 1, how many enemies it can hit (all now) and 2, overall damage (more threat). Going from 4 targets in TBC to all targets is a HUGE buff and made us actually viable for aoe tanking.
Druids are the worst for aoe tanking. Bear swipe is a joke for aoe threat and it only hits in a cone in front. All other tanking specs have a reliable aoe threat generator unless they adjust demoralizing roar? And when someone pulls aggro of the druid that must causes mayhem as they aren't generating any threat on the other mobs on them while picking up that runaway. If players aren't watching their threat and just hammering away with its like 99% of pugs, while druid is picking up the runaway, the rest start getting pulled off as well. And once they scatter its a race to kill them or wipe. A sub 3k gs cat swipe should not be pulling aggro from a 4k gs bear ever even if they aren't focusing the bears primary target, but they are claiming that is all it takes to pull aggro off the bear tank. Meanwhile pallies and dk's aren't even concerned about aoe threat gen as they can literally walk away for a minute or 2 without worrying that dps will pull aggro.
@@mathfreak666cheese imo pally and war have turned out to be the best 2 tanks, Ive currently got all 4 tanks and 3/4 healers witch I made all in p1 sadly at end of p1 i stopped playing bear witch is sad cus was my main in tbc and the dk I did 1 raid and just hated it single targeet good but for aoe you eaither choose to use runes tyo heal your dmg intake or u take a ton of dmg and drop DnD I think bear might be a bit better now I just started gearing it bcus id like to give it a TRUE SHOT at MT for last 2 phases so I guess well see but overall pally is #1 warr is #2 feels that way for threat and dmg intake 100%
-3 would be good lol. The only good aoe the blood tank has is death and decay. And that mostly isn't enough to hold the aggro of a geared mage or owl etc...
I cleared ICC25HC and RS25HC on all tanks. And all I can say is you made several good points but are missing/mistake in a lot of points. Some of them being: Divine Plea is 100% uptime on a Prot Paladin as long as they are auto attacking a mob + it gives 6% damage reduction; being a PLATE tank provides better physical reduction which is NOT TRUE at all because Bears get their leather armor scaled; DK have AWFUL AOE threat without DND, but BROKEN single target due to Icy Touch. In conclusion, NOT a good video, you need more concise about your descriptions on the tanks as this is supposed to be a TIER LIST and NOT a skill tooltips showcase and should have PROPER and ADEQUATE knowledge on the subject matter. EDIT: You got Death Knight's resource COMPLETELY the other way around. You mentioned Runic Power are the main resource and when consumed it restores Runes which is NOT correct and is the other way around.
You do make a ton of solid points, I only played warrior / dk clearing all the heroic raids playing as off tank/ main tank with other classes beside me. The things mentioned were kinda obvious or not fully explained. I get that he doesn't want an hour long video but if your saying your gonna get into it you gotta get into it and as you said not just mention tool tips and then give a vauge list at the end!
Yeah the video vehicules many wrong points. Dk single target thread is OP. Divine plea has 100% uptime if ur taking damage and reduce damage by 3%. Druid physical damage mitigation is OP because of savage défense 100%uptime. Also druid single target thread is OP and druids have insane threat bursts as they have two different DPS CDs on bear form. Also paladins dont have a strong magical damage réduction. Not more than worriors at least (better than druids, much worse than dk of course but equal to warriors , I would even argur that warriors are better in some situations if they can use spell reflect). There are alot of misconceptions that keep being spread by ppl who have not extensively tanked in wotlk. Hopefully, everything has been settled in private servers Paladins are excellent tanks because of their utility (raid cd to mitigate damage, hand of sacrifice on mt etc...) They are best off tanks but druids and dk are better MT. Warrior is garbage
although warrior is rated low, it has a high level skill cap. They're absolutely fun to play and it's nice to see players appreciate good warrior tanks. I have played all tank classes but warriors resonates with me because fights are more engaging, they make great off-tanks because of vigilance (giving main tank 3% dmg reduction and constantly resetting warrior taunt skill when MT takes dmg) and being able to instantly move one side of the room to the other via charges.
hey @toyhouze , looks like you put a lot of affort into your vidoes. good work. please consider to show the ability icons you are talking about. this will boost your content on so many lvls.
Okay this is just incorrect. One of the main attractions of using a DK tank is it's unrivaled singletarget threat. I agree that Pala>DK>Bear>warr, but it seems like you're underestimating the threat you can generate with IT
I think the overall order is correct but this is a weird guide. Bears have the highest armor and physical mitigation. DKs are next because of Frost Presence and have a similar overall physical mit. Warriors take more physical damage even with the armor from a shield and Def Stance, but they can have high block values and crit block. Pallies take about the same as a warrior. But they have more passive mitigation because of talents and glyphs (vs Defensive stance).
My tank was a bear and it was kinda ridiculous that sometimes Arthas wouldn't hit me for half a minute. If Blizz didn't put that -20% dodge debuff everybody would've rolled bear. Even as a healer (disc) bears have always been my favourite to heal. Especially with bad gear since bears are always immune to crits.
lol when we prot warriors got shockwave we essentially basically initially ultimately became paladin nerds. screw TBC and burning crusade RIP druid tanks.
In my experience, Warriors make exceptional dungeon tanks in WotLK. Stack Block, and run around making huge fat pulls. Control with Shockwave, and then mitigate with your myriad CDs, particularly Shield Block, and you can be almost unkillable for a good 20-30seconds. It's certainly not brainless, but it's a lot of fun, and very effective when pulled off correctly. I remember pulling entire Heroics this way.
even more fun was when you used prot specc with TOC+ dps gear and you had a geared party to almost 1shot every aoe pull you made. I remember we cleared Gundrak with 4-5 major pulls, 1st boss (Shad'ran) and his whole room was pulled in together for example.
@@panagiotisantonopoulos4796 That's basically how I did it :P Pull everything I to the boss, lag your screen out with particle effects, rinse and repeat
Dungeons are a joke in wrath my man, all tanks are fine the ranking is usually only speaking about raid bosses. After tier 7 warriors are waaaay to squishy to compare to the other 3.
@@enghazi1 they are great in naxx man. Arguably better than dk or druid but they fall off hard as hp of druid sky rockets in toc and avoidance takes off for dk in ulduar. They don't compare to any tank moving forward fortunately, they become one of the top dps.
I remember being one of the first prot pallys on my server to break 50k health in ICC. That spec really was godmode at the end of the xpac. Funny though i leveled the pally solely because the OG divine storm animation was and still is the best ability of all time and I fuckin HATE the current iteration of it
Did you ever get a chance to play ret with t10 4set and tiny abom in a jar? Most fun ive had with a class when you are cleaving with that setup + Seal of Command
@@vaels5682 I did dps a little towards the end of the xpac but I never had that trink on my pally. Got shadowmourne on the dk and that toon was my main dpser along with a feral druid and destro lock on alt runs.
@@arrrrrghimapirate oh you lucky! Shadowmourne + tiny abom on ret is actually unbelievable though. The seal procs count towards the shadowmourne and tiny abom stacks. So they both go off SO quickly. You can make a cancelaura macro for the strength buff on shadowmourne as ret and absolutely spew out the shadow damage proc over and over
Druid tanks were broken at the end of TBC where their armor and dodge got so great that they had to impliment a nerf. so yeah, they were gods in TBC from about SSC and TK onwards.
As a prot warrior, raid leader and guild leader of a well ranked guild on Silvermoon I can assure you that DKs are flaky tanks and prot paladins just don't have all of the abilities a good MT needs. This guided smacks of someone who read a guide but never played a LK tank, let alone had to raid lead.
Blood DK's are insane, a Paladin could never compare on fights like Halion and Sindy. A decent DK tank will be doing 50% healing on himself and the other 50% would be the other two healers. Also best single-target threat in the game.
Very true but I still think paladins are the go to tank early as DK's are a lot more gear dependent. A lot of people don't understand how DK's get more mitigation than paladins through self healing.
@@zophix-5741 Healing is not mitigation. Also, with a Hpala healing you most of your healing is wasted anyway. For Sindragosa you can easily rotate mitigation with salvation glyph on yourself (reducing damage on yourself by 20%), trinkets and raid sacrifice. Lastly, once you get the Sindragosa trinket no magic fight will ever be a problem again. The trinket is insane when combined with auras. Palas have actual mitigation, and tons of it.
Missing a bunch of metrics. Also neglecting that bears only suffer in ICC because blizz realized bears were reaching dodge cap and negating so much damage that they made it harder to predict when they needed to be healed, but this was likely more to make the raid harder than easier, as bears were essentially immortal in many fights.
As a warrior, that's tanked and raid lead speed clears pushing #1 world speed times... I think the idea of even ranking the treat in wrath is silly. There's really no reason you should ever be loosing threat AOE or Single target after vanilla. I'll give you the excuse for classic, but In Classic TBC you do have the tools to AoE tank, and it wrath its just easy mode. I really wouldn't make a decision based on threat ability. It would only matter in a race against other tanks, and you're not competing against other tanks for threat. I'll be switching to DK for wrath, but that's only for the legendary. Warrior is you could say more difficult than the other classes, but it's 10000% viable. Play what you want.
@@FarkasfaROCK oh look at that, the embodyment of everything wrong with the classic community. Clowns that know nothing about the game and fill their diaper at any opportunity for attention. Go cry to daddy, I'm not yours.
Having cleared all but LK25HC as a paladin tank I can say we were pretty brutal in single and AoE threat. I used two protection specs during my time, one being single target (glphyed avengers and a few talents) Or for trash/off tanking I speced for command and reckoning, to be fair this speeds trash up massively when you're doing like 20% of all the raids damage upto bosses. All this said I came across THE WARRIOR one day during a Ulduar 10 Pug (going for Champion, I got it eventually) anyway this warrior would rip AoE threat from me....at first I got angry with him but after half hour or so I realised "my guilds warriors can't do what this guy's doing in 15ilevel less gear" and shut my mouth.
No mention of Shaman Tank? I'd be more than happy to answer questions about the topic or drop some knowledge by partaking in a future video of yours, let me know!
DK is the top single target threat tank in the expansion but the AOE is not very good. It is totally an S tear with very high skill cap because it has a ton of defensive CDs that has to be used at the right moment to mitigate damage. You will see that by the end of the expansion everybody will be looking for DK MT , PALA OT not because the other tanks can't do the job but simply because they are the best. However, if you are new to tanking or new to expansion protection paladin is the safe bet.
They dont have bad Armor. we in Orginal Wotlk we did hit Armor CAP in Naxx - (got nerfed so Trinkets dosnt scale with Bear anymore). Later Armorcap was Reached Again.
@@schmauch1992 You can't reach armor cap in ICC without procs from trinkets, rings, or armor % boosting talent/racials. So bears can not reach armor cap which is 49905 armor
Do you think 2 prot pallies would be a good combo? I know a lot of comps run Pally/DK but I’m asking cause I think we will have 2 prot pallies wanting to tank in WotLK so I was trying to figure it out.
Dont agree: Only Warrior has thunderclap with 20 % attackspeedreduction, this works on bosses too and is a great damage reduction. And he has devastate with armor reduction, this is a great damage boost for the raid.
Every tank has 20% attack speed reduction though. Armor reduction is also brought to the raid by rogue or bm hunter, so not necessarily needed by the warrior.
Honestly? Prot Warrior during Wrath was a lot of fun in PvP. Nearly unkillable 1v1, loads of utility, some decent CC, not the worst damage. Even if you're not getting all the kills, you're really disruptive to the enemy team. I had a blast with it - and normally I'm indifferent at best towards PvP.
@@andromidius Hell yeah dude, so many silences, stuns and other utility made it a lot of fun. Shield slam did a lot of damage with a mix of damage gear and block rating.
Yea it's super fun. Stack up that block value or in ICC armor pen. You better be in a pretty good pve guild though as their dps warrior if you want to have the right gear
Death knight tank is best single target threat in the game by far if you go into blood to get will of the necropolis with subspec frost to get 3 or 4 points in killing machine. You cannot beat auto-crit Icy Touch in terms of single target threat. Their aoe threat however is pretty bad and also clunky UNLESS you glyph DnD and take the talent that reduces the cooldown of DnD (the 2 set from icc also helps). Taking the unholy subspec means you miss that insane icy touch autocrit, so it's basically never a good idea in raid. DKs best role is really main tanking bosses, and paladins handle adds. Just makes so much more sense to have the blood tank handle small adds
I kinda agree but i feel like u can just put a pally or warr on boss (both take less dmg) and both wont have any threat issues like yes dk is amazing single target threat but with a good group of ppl MD's Trix and such NO TANK SHOULD HAVE THREAT ISSUES! So why not just use another pally bcus they just take so much reduced dmg from there idol and holy sheild and so muhc more
Mate I am sorry but DK being behind on single target threat from Pally and above in aoe. Is so wrong in my opinion. Pretty sure DK has no rival on single threat.
It was in earlier wotlk patches, but by the time 3.3.5 ICC patch was released, Blizzard made Blood the official tank spec (frost as top single target damage, unholy as AoE damage and PvP spec) Just as classic vanilla was released in 1.12.2 version and TBC classic in 2.4.3, were all assuming Blizzard will release WOTLK classic in 3.3.5 with 3.3.5 talent trees. In other words, we will never again see the frost tank spec :/
Haha druid with lower armor than warrior. Funny! Can warriors even reach armor cap? Idk.I know bears reach armor cap fairly easy. My tank druid on Warmane is armor capped. They are insane at mitigating physical damage.
Lightly covers the topic but lower armour on bears is just wrong. Best snap threat on 1-3 targets, nothing beats berserk as an opener. Scales really well throughout wotlk. Having played them all in original wotlk I'd put Pally, Druid, DK all on the same tier, could do it all with any of them. Pally probably the best overall just because of Ardent Defender. Skill cap higher for DK and Warrior, more prone to getting clapped as a DK, AoE threat just not as good for warriors.
You can not reach armor cap by normal means. The only physical way to reach armor cap (49905 armor) is to have all armor bonus gear, 2x armor trinkets, armor pot, and have either dwarf (stone skin for 10% armor), Frost dk (25% armor), ashen ring proc (3.5k armor), or have gunship trinket proc (over 6k+ armor) So no you are not armor capped, and if you are link your armory as its actually near impossible
BDK doesn't feel good in dungeons. Wrath is the run through and blow everything up and BDK, for one, are slow. Pretty sure they also don't have a ranged pull other than coil or grip, so if you dumped your RP, welp. If you pull with chains you use runes and you also waste your slow and it's slow. Pally is going to feel really good. The tools are insane, fast swing timer, freedom, cleansing, Seal of Command, shield, sac, bop, etc, etc.
You um, you forgot Frost and Unholy tanking. I'm aware that they have their issues, especially Unholy which AFAIK was nerfed into being almost as niche as Voidwalker tanking with your Warlock, but if you're going to mention Assassination, Subtlety, and Frost in your DPS video then not mentioning these other two tanking-capable trees in your tank video is a bit of a dick move towards those trees and people who play them. It's basically saying, "Oh, you're not a 'real' tank; you're just doing it wrong and somehow succeeding through luck or the team carrying you." I didn't raid, and I disliked tanking as Frost and all the people all throughout Wrath trying to denigrate me for tanking as Blood instead (and tanking as Unholy, though that's a bit more understandable), so my play style is in line with your video, but I still think it's bad form. Especially when you start the video discussing the mitigation versus health dynamic between Protection Warriors and Feral Druids and that same dynamic is going on, if in a slightly different way, beetween Frost and Blood Death Knights. Edit: Oh... Yeah... Army of the Dead. That's a fun skill for the tank to use. I solo'd Heroic Loken 5-man thanks to Army of the Dead. I don't mean that the skill aided me in solo'ing him either; no, that was because I was running a Blood tank and had lots of self-healing. No, Army of the Dead made Loken spin-to-win thereby annihilating everyone else in the party but me. I used to love popping Army of the Dead on bosses when I tanked, and then I got everyone but myself killed thanks to it and realized it's just possibly not something I should be using like that. Edit 2: Discussing switching to DPS if you're done off-tanking as Feral Druid but not as Blood (or Frost) Death Knight as well? Ick. All three Death Knight trees are dual-purpose DPS and tank, and Blood DPS, while not the best, isn't inconsiderable.
You missed disarm for warriors I swear they had it in Wrath and it definitely worked if you were hit capped! When I would tank on my DK everyone would freak out when I would pop army dur high damage periods and I always linked the tooltip and still nobody believe it was a reduction! I feel vindicated years later!! Lol
Again you are kinda sad. How paladin has same aoe threat as DK?? Pal has aoe taunt with 8 sec cd when DK doesn't even have aoe taunt ability.. Pal using concentration and avengers shield with righteous fury on these 2 abilities alone doe's more than DK all aoe treat and ofc pal has 8 sec AOE taunt.
I don't want to play an "overpowerd" class. I dont like DK's. I'm thinking about playing Warrior in WotlkC (Love the t10 look also), but im very unsettled with that choice. I like a challenge, and Pally or DK doenst sound like one, cause they look very overpowered (pally for sure). Content we play is most dungeons and 10 man raids casual, maybe later hc, but thats not sure . Any advise for me?
Nothing wrong with warrior! And i feel they became better during the expansion, or maybe i got better, donno. But the main tank in our raid team was a warrior and he was insanely good. After some tips he gave me i got better myself as well and it was much fun indeed! So high skill ceiling, but once there they are awesome!
9:43 wasn't frost the DK tank spec in wotlk? I mained prot warr and pala in ICC 25HC content and got to say that warr really shines when you reach the later raids. Don't forget their passive threat generator with the Damage Shield talent in the protection tree.
@@Furyel2 Thanks. I barely played DK during Wotlk and just remembered that they switched things up and made the blood talent tree the new tank tree somewhat later. I'll probably go back to tanking in wotlk.
@@Furyel2 Frost Presence is the stance for tanking in wotlk. The build most blood tanks use go 43 points in blood and 26 in Frost for the icy talons buff. Frost also gives Killing Machine, which gives free icy touch crits, which is like 28k threat
Also, Prot Paladin Glyph of Divine Plea that gives a 3% flat damage reduction buff while it's up and then you can auto refresh Divine Plea with the "Guarded By the Light" talent, so you always have it up. And yeah, usually you want 1 Prot Paladin and then either a BDK or Feral Druid. From what I recall, you never want to go Druid/BDK, you always want a Paladin, so then you just choose the other or have someone in raid with an OS for the other tank just in case (for meta slaves ofc).
It is mathematically impossible to have 75% uptime on shield block. it has 10 sec duration + 40 sec cd. it can be up only for 25% of the fight (33% with T9 4 set)
early expansion: prot pala and dk mid expansion: prot pala and dk high end expansion: prot pala and dk, they literally are the only 2 tanks that are choosen for raids, maybe warrior or druid for RS 25 HC for the dodge but nothing more, dk and pala are so valuable thats not even close and druids are good but they are better as healers or dps for the raid
I recall my tauren dk having a larger health pool than any other tank I encountered. The tauren racial combined with me stacking stamina gems and enchants on everything, combined with the stam on plate tank gear was insane.
I recall a shield block ability for paladins that increases block chance by 30% as part of the rotation. It was the only spec that could solo Storming Stormwind :D due to huge amount of avoidance, ardent defender and seal of light/judgment of light. It just took ages.
So... all 3 specs of DK can tank in this era. Most tanks if not all DKs where either frost or unholy (pre unholy nerf). I can't think of one time I ran into a blood DK.
By the last patch of wotlk (which should be what we get) Blood was made the official tank and the specs were changed to make the other specs not work anymore than a fury warrior or kitty can offtank.
@@dova1072 That is actually irrelevant though. Toyhouze included Subtlety, Assassination, Frost, and other "inherently worse than" trees in his DPS video. He should have included all tanking trees/specs for the sake of completeness. Not going to say he should have included Beast Master or Demonology pet tanking, and Unholy should perhaps come with the caveat of "really only useful in a very few magic-heavy fights" (IIRC), but if you're going to post a video in a factual sense instead of an opinion piece then you should at least provide complete information. Hell, Frost and Blood tanking go right in line with the mitigation versus health difference between Protection Warriors and Feral Druids he highlighted at the start of the video.
@@Mesterick by the final patches of wotlk they simply weren't tank specs was only the beggining/middle, if wotlk classic happens it'll be the final patch before cata prepatch just like classic and tbc classic
I plan on going unholy tank when the expansion drops. Tried it when it launched when I was 9 but also kinda just wanted to nuke everything so I switched around the talents. I want to do it better this time. Any pointers?
Dont go unholy if you want to tank as a DK. Blood is best but frost and unholy only have niche utility. You can do it, not really hard in dungeons but for raids you will find yourself lacking in big CD's and other kinds of buffs people will bring DK tanks for.
Even for dungeon spam while first gearing up, you'll want to go blood (up to will of the necropolis) with unholy subspec and get all the aoe + spell dmg centric talents (blood boil dmg, reduced cd on DnD). Then also the DnD glyph. Throw on some 1 hander tank weapons to reach that defense cap quickly until you can reach it comfortably with a good 2hander (heroic Utgarde Keep has a 2.5 speed 1h that is great for mh). Do this and the early dungeons will be easy. Make sure to get crafted gear for naxx drop. That stuff has an insane amount of stamina, particularly the crafted titansteel helm.
Problem: I wanna roll DK tank (Tanking with 2 handed weapons is just badass) but expect not to get spots because everyone will be a DK. Does some1 has insite on private Realms how man DKs actually are tanks?
I have a ton of experience as DK tank (multiple end of tier realm first on progressive blizzlike private servers with buffed content). If you want to be the main tank youll need to be very knowledgeable about fights and stand out. Ask me anything
Double paladin for speedrun comps so you can bring fewer healers and more DPS. Double Blood DK for parse guilds for Hysteria. The rest will probably just run a mix of the top 3 with prot warriors being the most undesirable.
I had a good friend who only played warrior from vanilla - wrath, was so pissed about what Blizzard did to his class he quit the game and never played again.
Bad news for feral druids and Warriors) In wotlk will be only x2 main tank Pally and Dk (no one won’t give a spot for warrior and Druid can be only the 3rd off tank / cat dps) Going to respec and play in resto spec in wotlk
You want to to with a blood dk as MT most of the time with prot pala OT, the BDK has so many cooldowns and by far the best single target threat. You got it very wrong with putting prot pally as higher single target threat and DK aoe threat is very weak outside of DnD which is not reliable since long cd. And DK is imo the most fun tank by far since u actually can and will have to plan out your runes to be able to do large selfhealing or large threat with management of your death runes. However prot pally is very chill to play since its very braindead and u pretty much press ur abilities in the same sequence barring the occational shield wall/raid sac etc so for a raid leader a prot paladin is very good for keeping track of timers and whatnot
Na dude, Prot is fine for single target and gets better overall stats once you hit Ulduar and start stacking stam. They are insane and there is really no reason not to run them all the time
M8 great job u done but u realy missed a looot.....u skiped many other important talents and mechanics to mention that would define better each class....like damaging shield,incite,impr thunder clap,enrage and critical block for warr tanks!!for frost and unh dk tanks unbreakable armor high armor tank,3% reduced chance to be hit, acclimation for resistances on magic schools, lichborne for charm fear sleep, howling spam ability aoe cheap spam....bone shield, antimagic zone,impr anti magic shell, aoe descr slow on plague strike.....all those mechanics are very important to mention m8 for 2nd or offtank
docs.google.com/presentation/d/1OsU6i5oYagCAxpiOmFnimdXTygSrVWBTzFAVuPdHkfc/edit?usp=sharing
Fix the DK threat scores before this becomes the most viewed WOTLK tank video and you become a meme :D
This does need an update. Warriors over druids for aoe tanking. I have a druid tank and aoe threat Gen is clearly the worst of all the tanking specs even if you sacrifice Stam for agi
After watching your 3 tier lists' videos,I literally fell into "nostalgia" mode. I wanna replay WotLK all over again.
Won't be the same, even logging on now to classic TBC see everyone is so sweaty and everyone already has the game completely figured out, it's just not the same as back in the day.
Same here, I can't wait to replay WotLK!
@@nolabets3130 bah, I don't really care. I'm what most people would consider casual nowadays. I had my time being a sweat lord then. But going through all of WotLK as a DK like when they used to be then, even on my own, I'll gladly do it all over again.
Maybe 9 more months? Or 12, based on the periodicity of the phase releases for classic tbc
Come play on Synergie :)
You have DK threat mixed up. Their Aoe Threat is really not so great, unless you are a unholy tank(which you hopefully are not). Death and decay does a really nice amount of threat, especially with 2pTier10, but the downside is that it has a 30 second cooldown. Their single target threat however is by far the best in the game. Just spam icy touch and i guarantee that no dps/other tank will come close to your threat.
Thanks for commenting this. I was shocked at how poorly that was shown in the video.
Mmm as a pally tank from Wrath who ran a frost tank alt I can say the DK when binding rune strike to everything makes unmatched threat.
I could hit the threat cap on my paladin after about half a ICC25HC boss fight in 275 (no 277 libram existed and no LK25HC weapon) but my DK at like 250 could make 20-30%+ threat over my paladin.
That said it depends on how good the player is, I met a warrior in Ulduar one day who had better AoE threat than anyone I've ever met in the game.
(And I've pugged with some top 50 EU guilds on their alt runs)
@@sdewey4152 what can u say about feral tank?
@@M5_Zybka Feral is great dude. Solid AOE threat(rotate mauls and you'll be ok), solid single target, reliable mitigation and good cooldowns. Their best quality is their scaling with stamina and armour. With tier 10 and armour items you'll be armour capped without having to use PTS or unidentifiable organ. You'll also have like 80k health without Garrosh buff
I plan on being unholy tank.
I got my first taste of tanking in Wrath, and I have continued to tank in both Classic and Classic TBC, one thing people often overlook when discussing tanking in Wrath, is that threat was much less of an issue, Blizz hugely buffed the threat generation of tanks in Wrath compared to Vanilla and TBC, so realistically, any aoe coming from the tank was likely enough to hold aggro, even something as simple as using Thunderclap off cooldown. I think we might see an over abundance of tanks in Classic Wrath, not only with the popularity of Paladins and the easier time they have, but also from people looking to take advantage of instant groups from the LFG system, especially if it is added from the start.
Nah, not over abundance. That's simply because most people still like doing damage instead of tanking, despite it being better. What do you benefit from faster group finding when you aren't doing what you want to do?
EDIT: I will also add that if there are a lot of tanks in the pool, people are more likely to roll DPS because they know they don't need to wait for a long time to find a tank. So tank and healer have those golden lines which keep their player counts healthy.
For the most part yes, but druid tanks are still severely lacking in aoe threat. If blizzard buffed the threat generation of swipe, it'd make a big difference in their ability to tank dungeons or fights with lots of adds.
This video also doesn't take into account druid self healing which makes a very big difference in dmg mitigation, especially large groups of mobs, but the self healing doesn't add any threat or it'd bear impossible to pull aggro on a bear tank without having about 1k gs over the bear tank.
BTW DK's have the best single target threat in the game so i don't think u're correct in putting em lower than paladins for single target threat
Blood dk aoe threat is very very bad. Unholy and frost are good, but blood is literaly only good for boss tanking. Also druids have highest hp and armor in the game. Rankings at the end are good.
@@eaglesnetwork3750 unholy and frost tanks are superior to blood tank when hitting 80 and farming dungeons due to higher aoe threat.
I am playing by feral tank in tbc,and after checking this video I started to be scary about my spot in a raid as a feral tank. I hope that guild will save me a spot as a feral tank and won’t use only dk+ pally for tanking =| .
@@M5_Zybka no need to worry, bear is great, best tanks for some fights like lich king and heavy physical dmg bosses, due to higher armor and stamina then other tanks.
@@12345recovery Frost and Unholy weren't tanks with the later patches of wotlk which based on Classic and TBC Classic is what we'll be getting. Frost and UH will be dps, maybe with minor OT ability similar to dps warriors/ferals.
@@dfcd1432 i have tanked whole icc 10/25 as blood, frost and unholy, and did it with success. Unholy tank on Sindra is OP. Also tanked it all as warr, pala and bear. If you are min maxing then there will be compositions, if you want to have fun you can still clear it how you like it
One thing you did miss from the paladin, and arguably one of the best QOL changes from TBC was the talent 'touched by the light' this gave Spell power equal to up to 60% of your strength, this meant paladins no longer had to gimp their mitigation in order to generate enough spell power to hold threat and could actually use tank weapons
Funny story about that talent, it was originally equal to stamina not strength - Protholy paladin was insane OP in arena, one Flash of Light would heal anyone to full if it critted, funny enough it got nerfed really quick!
I kept telling people I remember prot/holy being so op cuz it can heal anyone to full hp in 1 cast and it had infinite mana cuz of divine plea refresh talent in prot, none seems to remember that to a point i started questioning myself if it was another expansion.
I remember the bug a week or two before dual talents were introduced where warriors would specc fury equip 2x 2handed weapons and spec arms, they would be arms dualwielding 2hands.. it only lasted a few days tho. that was fun, cant seem to find a video of it anywhere
For me maining a Prot Pally in TBC Classic right now that's actually a downside change to me. I like the super unique "flavor" of using true spell power items. I want to gear in a unique way, balancing threat and mitigation. I don't want to just be a warrior with a gimmick.
@@dfcd1432 You are not gimmicky. If anything prot palas have the most choice. Hand of Salvation is great if you have plenty of aggro, in that if you glyph it and use it on yourself you can reduce your damage taken at the cost of aggro.
Incredibly fun to use skillfully.
@@icebox1954 Gameplay and class flavor aren't the same. I know Prot Paladins are the best tank, but one of the entire things that made them cool in tbc was how unique their gearing was.
Grab a dps weapon on prot pally and do all the damage.
You failed to mention that Thunderclap was buffed in 2 major ways. 1, how many enemies it can hit (all now) and 2, overall damage (more threat). Going from 4 targets in TBC to all targets is a HUGE buff and made us actually viable for aoe tanking.
you actually want a prot war to pick up adds on halion's outside phase. other tanks are not suited for that task
Druids are the worst for aoe tanking. Bear swipe is a joke for aoe threat and it only hits in a cone in front. All other tanking specs have a reliable aoe threat generator unless they adjust demoralizing roar? And when someone pulls aggro of the druid that must causes mayhem as they aren't generating any threat on the other mobs on them while picking up that runaway. If players aren't watching their threat and just hammering away with its like 99% of pugs, while druid is picking up the runaway, the rest start getting pulled off as well. And once they scatter its a race to kill them or wipe. A sub 3k gs cat swipe should not be pulling aggro from a 4k gs bear ever even if they aren't focusing the bears primary target, but they are claiming that is all it takes to pull aggro off the bear tank. Meanwhile pallies and dk's aren't even concerned about aoe threat gen as they can literally walk away for a minute or 2 without worrying that dps will pull aggro.
@@mathfreak666cheese imo pally and war have turned out to be the best 2 tanks, Ive currently got all 4 tanks and 3/4 healers witch I made all in p1 sadly at end of p1 i stopped playing bear witch is sad cus was my main in tbc and the dk I did 1 raid and just hated it single targeet good but for aoe you eaither choose to use runes tyo heal your dmg intake or u take a ton of dmg and drop DnD I think bear might be a bit better now I just started gearing it bcus id like to give it a TRUE SHOT at MT for last 2 phases so I guess well see but overall pally is #1 warr is #2 feels that way for threat and dmg intake 100%
I think you mixed the DK single target aggro with AoE aggro (single target should be a full bar, AoE -3)
-3 would be good lol. The only good aoe the blood tank has is death and decay. And that mostly isn't enough to hold the aggro of a geared mage or owl etc...
I think you switch'd the dk aoe threat with single target.
I cleared ICC25HC and RS25HC on all tanks. And all I can say is you made several good points but are missing/mistake in a lot of points. Some of them being: Divine Plea is 100% uptime on a Prot Paladin as long as they are auto attacking a mob + it gives 6% damage reduction; being a PLATE tank provides better physical reduction which is NOT TRUE at all because Bears get their leather armor scaled; DK have AWFUL AOE threat without DND, but BROKEN single target due to Icy Touch. In conclusion, NOT a good video, you need more concise about your descriptions on the tanks as this is supposed to be a TIER LIST and NOT a skill tooltips showcase and should have PROPER and ADEQUATE knowledge on the subject matter.
EDIT: You got Death Knight's resource COMPLETELY the other way around. You mentioned Runic Power are the main resource and when consumed it restores Runes which is NOT correct and is the other way around.
You do make a ton of solid points, I only played warrior / dk clearing all the heroic raids playing as off tank/ main tank with other classes beside me. The things mentioned were kinda obvious or not fully explained. I get that he doesn't want an hour long video but if your saying your gonna get into it you gotta get into it and as you said not just mention tool tips and then give a vauge list at the end!
agree with you sir, i ply tank on end game content too .
yess bro blood dk threat is terrible on aoe... have to throttle cleaving a lot
Yeah the video vehicules many wrong points.
Dk single target thread is OP. Divine plea has 100% uptime if ur taking damage and reduce damage by 3%.
Druid physical damage mitigation is OP because of savage défense 100%uptime. Also druid single target thread is OP and druids have insane threat bursts as they have two different DPS CDs on bear form.
Also paladins dont have a strong magical damage réduction. Not more than worriors at least (better than druids, much worse than dk of course but equal to warriors , I would even argur that warriors are better in some situations if they can use spell reflect).
There are alot of misconceptions that keep being spread by ppl who have not extensively tanked in wotlk. Hopefully, everything has been settled in private servers
Paladins are excellent tanks because of their utility (raid cd to mitigate damage, hand of sacrifice on mt etc...) They are best off tanks but druids and dk are better MT. Warrior is garbage
although warrior is rated low, it has a high level skill cap. They're absolutely fun to play and it's nice to see players appreciate good warrior tanks. I have played all tank classes but warriors resonates with me because fights are more engaging, they make great off-tanks because of vigilance (giving main tank 3% dmg reduction and constantly resetting warrior taunt skill when MT takes dmg) and being able to instantly move one side of the room to the other via charges.
In my opinion blood dk has better single target threat compared to aoe one.
hey @toyhouze , looks like you put a lot of affort into your vidoes. good work. please consider to show the ability icons you are talking about. this will boost your content on so many lvls.
Okay this is just incorrect. One of the main attractions of using a DK tank is it's unrivaled singletarget threat. I agree that Pala>DK>Bear>warr, but it seems like you're underestimating the threat you can generate with IT
Bear is the best tank, doesnt need fancy gear with defense rating, normal agi gear, has high hp
I think the overall order is correct but this is a weird guide.
Bears have the highest armor and physical mitigation.
DKs are next because of Frost Presence and have a similar overall physical mit.
Warriors take more physical damage even with the armor from a shield and Def Stance, but they can have high block values and crit block.
Pallies take about the same as a warrior. But they have more passive mitigation because of talents and glyphs (vs Defensive stance).
My tank was a bear and it was kinda ridiculous that sometimes Arthas wouldn't hit me for half a minute. If Blizz didn't put that -20% dodge debuff everybody would've rolled bear.
Even as a healer (disc) bears have always been my favourite to heal. Especially with bad gear since bears are always immune to crits.
i remember doing H dungeons with my barely 3.2.2-geared blood DK tank with 4 dps and no healers. ridiculous fun it was.
sounds amazing
lol when we prot warriors got shockwave we essentially basically initially ultimately became paladin nerds. screw TBC and burning crusade RIP druid tanks.
Great break down, thxs!
This got my hyped!!! Fun and informative vid!
back in wotlk vanilla i played prot pally because their was not many arround. Today i play prot warrior because all switched to pally xD
Cool beans, still playing Warrior tho
In my experience, Warriors make exceptional dungeon tanks in WotLK. Stack Block, and run around making huge fat pulls. Control with Shockwave, and then mitigate with your myriad CDs, particularly Shield Block, and you can be almost unkillable for a good 20-30seconds. It's certainly not brainless, but it's a lot of fun, and very effective when pulled off correctly. I remember pulling entire Heroics this way.
even more fun was when you used prot specc with TOC+ dps gear and you had a geared party to almost 1shot every aoe pull you made. I remember we cleared Gundrak with 4-5 major pulls, 1st boss (Shad'ran) and his whole room was pulled in together for example.
@@panagiotisantonopoulos4796 That's basically how I did it :P Pull everything I to the boss, lag your screen out with particle effects, rinse and repeat
Dungeons are a joke in wrath my man, all tanks are fine the ranking is usually only speaking about raid bosses. After tier 7 warriors are waaaay to squishy to compare to the other 3.
I did this all day bro. It sucks that warr falls off in the raid tiers
@@enghazi1 they are great in naxx man. Arguably better than dk or druid but they fall off hard as hp of druid sky rockets in toc and avoidance takes off for dk in ulduar. They don't compare to any tank moving forward fortunately, they become one of the top dps.
Blood dk has the greatest single target threat in wrath.
A skilled Warrior can easily gain 2-3 bubbles in each category you have. Lower skill floor, higher skill ceiling than the rest.
through every xpac we prevail...warriors
I remember being one of the first prot pallys on my server to break 50k health in ICC. That spec really was godmode at the end of the xpac. Funny though i leveled the pally solely because the OG divine storm animation was and still is the best ability of all time and I fuckin HATE the current iteration of it
Did you ever get a chance to play ret with t10 4set and tiny abom in a jar? Most fun ive had with a class when you are cleaving with that setup + Seal of Command
@@vaels5682 I did dps a little towards the end of the xpac but I never had that trink on my pally. Got shadowmourne on the dk and that toon was my main dpser along with a feral druid and destro lock on alt runs.
@@arrrrrghimapirate oh you lucky! Shadowmourne + tiny abom on ret is actually unbelievable though.
The seal procs count towards the shadowmourne and tiny abom stacks. So they both go off SO quickly. You can make a cancelaura macro for the strength buff on shadowmourne as ret and absolutely spew out the shadow damage proc over and over
@@arrrrrghimapirate Feral druid is also great fun, especially once you have those super high crit values in ICC
Did they like massively nerf druid armor in wtlk? Because in TBC druids are the highest armor tanks.
Druid tanks were broken at the end of TBC where their armor and dodge got so great that they had to impliment a nerf. so yeah, they were gods in TBC from about SSC and TK onwards.
As a prot warrior, raid leader and guild leader of a well ranked guild on Silvermoon I can assure you that DKs are flaky tanks and prot paladins just don't have all of the abilities a good MT needs.
This guided smacks of someone who read a guide but never played a LK tank, let alone had to raid lead.
Blood DK's are insane, a Paladin could never compare on fights like Halion and Sindy. A decent DK tank will be doing 50% healing on himself and the other 50% would be the other two healers.
Also best single-target threat in the game.
Very true but I still think paladins are the go to tank early as DK's are a lot more gear dependent. A lot of people don't understand how DK's get more mitigation than paladins through self healing.
@@zophix-5741 Healing is not mitigation. Also, with a Hpala healing you most of your healing is wasted anyway.
For Sindragosa you can easily rotate mitigation with salvation glyph on yourself (reducing damage on yourself by 20%), trinkets and raid sacrifice.
Lastly, once you get the Sindragosa trinket no magic fight will ever be a problem again. The trinket is insane when combined with auras.
Palas have actual mitigation, and tons of it.
Why does DK have 7/10 single target threat...what even is this list
Warriors are a 10/10 single target threat tank, why do u have them at 6/10
Missing a bunch of metrics. Also neglecting that bears only suffer in ICC because blizz realized bears were reaching dodge cap and negating so much damage that they made it harder to predict when they needed to be healed, but this was likely more to make the raid harder than easier, as bears were essentially immortal in many fights.
As a warrior, that's tanked and raid lead speed clears pushing #1 world speed times... I think the idea of even ranking the treat in wrath is silly. There's really no reason you should ever be loosing threat AOE or Single target after vanilla. I'll give you the excuse for classic, but In Classic TBC you do have the tools to AoE tank, and it wrath its just easy mode.
I really wouldn't make a decision based on threat ability. It would only matter in a race against other tanks, and you're not competing against other tanks for threat.
I'll be switching to DK for wrath, but that's only for the legendary. Warrior is you could say more difficult than the other classes, but it's 10000% viable. Play what you want.
LoL which n00b guild would give lolmourne for shity TANK dk?
@@FarkasfaROCK oh look at that, the embodyment of everything wrong with the classic community. Clowns that know nothing about the game and fill their diaper at any opportunity for attention.
Go cry to daddy, I'm not yours.
@@FarkasfaROCK we roll for it
Having cleared all but LK25HC as a paladin tank I can say we were pretty brutal in single and AoE threat.
I used two protection specs during my time, one being single target (glphyed avengers and a few talents)
Or for trash/off tanking I speced for command and reckoning, to be fair this speeds trash up massively when you're doing like 20% of all the raids damage upto bosses.
All this said I came across THE WARRIOR one day during a Ulduar 10 Pug (going for Champion, I got it eventually) anyway this warrior would rip AoE threat from me....at first I got angry with him but after half hour or so I realised "my guilds warriors can't do what this guy's doing in 15ilevel less gear" and shut my mouth.
not realy a good tierlist. in the end : you want one of each tank in your guild and the ones not needed for the encounter go DPS (Dual spec FTW)
No you dont lol
Also dks are highest single target threat with icy touch.
I loved my prot pally so much.! I did RET it up also.
Paladin so op, its in a class of its own. haha.
Haha 💯 every spec good in wotlk
No mention of Shaman Tank?
I'd be more than happy to answer questions about the topic or drop some knowledge by partaking in a future video of yours, let me know!
DK is the top single target threat tank in the expansion but the AOE is not very good. It is totally an S tear with very high skill cap because it has a ton of defensive CDs that has to be used at the right moment to mitigate damage. You will see that by the end of the expansion everybody will be looking for DK MT , PALA OT not because the other tanks can't do the job but simply because they are the best. However, if you are new to tanking or new to expansion protection paladin is the safe bet.
In dungeons which one would you recommend for tanking frost or unholy ? And Blood for raids ?
@@julien5053 blood all the way through...you just constantly healed yourself
@@op8ztv The problem in dungeons is mostly aggro.
@@julien5053 If you have aggro problems go unholy. For raids aways blood.
@@ivaylohristov8886 Thanks !🙂 You confirm my initial thoughts !
lol when we prot warriors got shockwave we essentially basically initially ultimately became paladin nerds. screw TBC
It's weird hearing druids have "bad armor" while playing one in TBC
They dont have bad Armor. we in Orginal Wotlk we did hit Armor CAP in Naxx - (got nerfed so Trinkets dosnt scale with Bear anymore). Later Armorcap was Reached Again.
Yeah he's just wrong druids have very good armor the problem is they don't have a shield to block with. Playing one now in tbc classic
@@schmauch1992 You can't reach armor cap in ICC without procs from trinkets, rings, or armor % boosting talent/racials. So bears can not reach armor cap which is 49905 armor
Do you think 2 prot pallies would be a good combo? I know a lot of comps run Pally/DK but I’m asking cause I think we will have 2 prot pallies wanting to tank in WotLK so I was trying to figure it out.
I've played wth 2 prot paladins before and it works great!
Palas pop of in wotlk. They are good at all 3 specs. And their cds are so good for the raid.
@@eaglesnetwork3750 what about pally tank + feral tank .Isnt it’s a good combo?
@@M5_Zybka prot pally + bear works pretty well too
It's great, especially if you have your melee buffs already provided by other classes (Frost dk and kitty).
The amount of times ive survived an unsurvivable encounter/pull with a blood dk trumps all other tanks. The self healing of a blood dk is s tier.
Hey. will you do similar vid like this to Cata tanks? LOVE IT thank you
Dont agree: Only Warrior has thunderclap with 20 % attackspeedreduction, this works on bosses too and is a great damage reduction. And he has devastate with armor reduction, this is a great damage boost for the raid.
Every tank has 20% attack speed reduction though. Armor reduction is also brought to the raid by rogue or bm hunter, so not necessarily needed by the warrior.
Prot Warrior PvP baby!!!
Honestly? Prot Warrior during Wrath was a lot of fun in PvP. Nearly unkillable 1v1, loads of utility, some decent CC, not the worst damage. Even if you're not getting all the kills, you're really disruptive to the enemy team. I had a blast with it - and normally I'm indifferent at best towards PvP.
@@andromidius Hell yeah dude, so many silences, stuns and other utility made it a lot of fun. Shield slam did a lot of damage with a mix of damage gear and block rating.
Yea it's super fun. Stack up that block value or in ICC armor pen. You better be in a pretty good pve guild though as their dps warrior if you want to have the right gear
Death knight tank is best single target threat in the game by far if you go into blood to get will of the necropolis with subspec frost to get 3 or 4 points in killing machine. You cannot beat auto-crit Icy Touch in terms of single target threat.
Their aoe threat however is pretty bad and also clunky UNLESS you glyph DnD and take the talent that reduces the cooldown of DnD (the 2 set from icc also helps). Taking the unholy subspec means you miss that insane icy touch autocrit, so it's basically never a good idea in raid.
DKs best role is really main tanking bosses, and paladins handle adds. Just makes so much more sense to have the blood tank handle small adds
I kinda agree but i feel like u can just put a pally or warr on boss (both take less dmg) and both wont have any threat issues like yes dk is amazing single target threat but with a good group of ppl MD's Trix and such NO TANK SHOULD HAVE THREAT ISSUES! So why not just use another pally bcus they just take so much reduced dmg from there idol and holy sheild and so muhc more
btw i think bdk needs to be 10 points in single target. Bdk has the best single target threat spell in the game " Icy Touch ".
You definitely make the best informative guides
I appreciate that!
Mate I am sorry but DK being behind on single target threat from Pally and above in aoe. Is so wrong in my opinion.
Pretty sure DK has no rival on single threat.
I hear from a friend that Frost DK was the go-to tanking spec for death knights. Take a look at that?
It was in earlier wotlk patches, but by the time 3.3.5 ICC patch was released, Blizzard made Blood the official tank spec (frost as top single target damage, unholy as AoE damage and PvP spec)
Just as classic vanilla was released in 1.12.2 version and TBC classic in 2.4.3, were all assuming Blizzard will release WOTLK classic in 3.3.5 with 3.3.5 talent trees. In other words, we will never again see the frost tank spec :/
I feel like dk tanks are the most fun. They're really good, do good dmg, have great sustain and survivability, they're just great.
Yes, but their damage sucks... its bad.
Haha druid with lower armor than warrior. Funny! Can warriors even reach armor cap? Idk.I know bears reach armor cap fairly easy. My tank druid on Warmane is armor capped. They are insane at mitigating physical damage.
Lightly covers the topic but lower armour on bears is just wrong. Best snap threat on 1-3 targets, nothing beats berserk as an opener. Scales really well throughout wotlk.
Having played them all in original wotlk I'd put Pally, Druid, DK all on the same tier, could do it all with any of them.
Pally probably the best overall just because of Ardent Defender. Skill cap higher for DK and Warrior, more prone to getting clapped as a DK, AoE threat just not as good for warriors.
You can not reach armor cap by normal means. The only physical way to reach armor cap (49905 armor) is to have all armor bonus gear, 2x armor trinkets, armor pot, and have either dwarf (stone skin for 10% armor), Frost dk (25% armor), ashen ring proc (3.5k armor), or have gunship trinket proc (over 6k+ armor)
So no you are not armor capped, and if you are link your armory as its actually near impossible
But FROST was the tank spec for death knights back then.
DKs have best single target threat in game.
And?
wasnt frost dk tank spec in the very beginning? hows it classic if it doesnt release how it did back then
You have any videos on current wrath of lich king servers that are active ?
BDK doesn't feel good in dungeons. Wrath is the run through and blow everything up and BDK, for one, are slow. Pretty sure they also don't have a ranged pull other than coil or grip, so if you dumped your RP, welp. If you pull with chains you use runes and you also waste your slow and it's slow.
Pally is going to feel really good. The tools are insane, fast swing timer, freedom, cleansing, Seal of Command, shield, sac, bop, etc, etc.
You um, you forgot Frost and Unholy tanking. I'm aware that they have their issues, especially Unholy which AFAIK was nerfed into being almost as niche as Voidwalker tanking with your Warlock, but if you're going to mention Assassination, Subtlety, and Frost in your DPS video then not mentioning these other two tanking-capable trees in your tank video is a bit of a dick move towards those trees and people who play them. It's basically saying, "Oh, you're not a 'real' tank; you're just doing it wrong and somehow succeeding through luck or the team carrying you."
I didn't raid, and I disliked tanking as Frost and all the people all throughout Wrath trying to denigrate me for tanking as Blood instead (and tanking as Unholy, though that's a bit more understandable), so my play style is in line with your video, but I still think it's bad form. Especially when you start the video discussing the mitigation versus health dynamic between Protection Warriors and Feral Druids and that same dynamic is going on, if in a slightly different way, beetween Frost and Blood Death Knights.
Edit: Oh... Yeah... Army of the Dead. That's a fun skill for the tank to use. I solo'd Heroic Loken 5-man thanks to Army of the Dead. I don't mean that the skill aided me in solo'ing him either; no, that was because I was running a Blood tank and had lots of self-healing. No, Army of the Dead made Loken spin-to-win thereby annihilating everyone else in the party but me.
I used to love popping Army of the Dead on bosses when I tanked, and then I got everyone but myself killed thanks to it and realized it's just possibly not something I should be using like that.
Edit 2: Discussing switching to DPS if you're done off-tanking as Feral Druid but not as Blood (or Frost) Death Knight as well? Ick. All three Death Knight trees are dual-purpose DPS and tank, and Blood DPS, while not the best, isn't inconsiderable.
I think it depends on which patch is used. Sadly, I understand it will be a version where DK can dps and/or tank in each specialisation. :(
Forgot sunder/devestate on warrior
Blood dk has some of the best if not the very best ST threat in the game. Their AOE is lackluster, especially if dnd is ok cd
prot war = most fun
prot pal = easiest
dk = wtf
Yep
You missed disarm for warriors I swear they had it in Wrath and it definitely worked if you were hit capped! When I would tank on my DK everyone would freak out when I would pop army dur high damage periods and I always linked the tooltip and still nobody believe it was a reduction! I feel vindicated years later!! Lol
Again you are kinda sad. How paladin has same aoe threat as DK?? Pal has aoe taunt with 8 sec cd when DK doesn't even have aoe taunt ability.. Pal using concentration and avengers shield with righteous fury on these 2 abilities alone doe's more than DK all aoe treat and ofc pal has 8 sec AOE taunt.
I spoiled myself by playing pali 1st, tried a DK 2nd and it felt awful, similar gear, much squishier less damage and awful AOE agro.
I don't want to play an "overpowerd" class. I dont like DK's. I'm thinking about playing Warrior in WotlkC (Love the t10 look also), but im very unsettled with that choice. I like a challenge, and Pally or DK doenst sound like one, cause they look very overpowered (pally for sure). Content we play is most dungeons and 10 man raids casual, maybe later hc, but thats not sure . Any advise for me?
Definitely play warrior. I heard it's a ton of fun, even if much harder to play and not as good.
Nothing wrong with warrior! And i feel they became better during the expansion, or maybe i got better, donno. But the main tank in our raid team was a warrior and he was insanely good. After some tips he gave me i got better myself as well and it was much fun indeed! So high skill ceiling, but once there they are awesome!
I thought DK tank was Frost at the beginning of WotLK. How do we know they won't start like that?
Correct, we don't know for sure yet!
@@Toyhouze Cool. I wasn't sure if something had been announced or whatever. It would be interesting if they went through the talent changes.
9:43 wasn't frost the DK tank spec in wotlk? I mained prot warr and pala in ICC 25HC content and got to say that warr really shines when you reach the later raids. Don't forget their passive threat generator with the Damage Shield talent in the protection tree.
Blood presence (stance) for tanking. You can pick the talent tree you want for flavor, and yes, frost talent are well suited for both dps and tanking.
@@Furyel2 Thanks. I barely played DK during Wotlk and just remembered that they switched things up and made the blood talent tree the new tank tree somewhat later. I'll probably go back to tanking in wotlk.
@@Furyel2 blood presence was not tank. Frost presence was tank until cata prepatch
@@Furyel2 Frost Presence is the stance for tanking in wotlk. The build most blood tanks use go 43 points in blood and 26 in Frost for the icy talons buff. Frost also gives Killing Machine, which gives free icy touch crits, which is like 28k threat
@@Furyel2 frost presence is tanking presence in wotlk...and in 3.3.5 you tank as blood spec for raids
Also, Prot Paladin Glyph of Divine Plea that gives a 3% flat damage reduction buff while it's up and then you can auto refresh Divine Plea with the "Guarded By the Light" talent, so you always have it up.
And yeah, usually you want 1 Prot Paladin and then either a BDK or Feral Druid. From what I recall, you never want to go Druid/BDK, you always want a Paladin, so then you just choose the other or have someone in raid with an OS for the other tank just in case (for meta slaves ofc).
What about Frost DK? Isn't that also a tank spec?
cant wait for wotlk classic to be released! love my war spe revenge
Not sure I agree with the warrior physical damage reduction rating, should be maxed imo. Shield black has like a 75% up time if they don't suck
It is mathematically impossible to have 75% uptime on shield block. it has 10 sec duration + 40 sec cd. it can be up only for 25% of the fight (33% with T9 4 set)
Paper tanks need the 75% just to not die after one hit.
You used 10/10 scale but didn't use half the scale. 💀 May as well have just used 1-5, would have been easier to tell differences.
I remember frost dk tanking. Howling blast and just kite all day. lol
You forgot frost and unholy death knight tanks
early expansion: prot pala and dk mid expansion: prot pala and dk high end expansion: prot pala and dk, they literally are the only 2 tanks that are choosen for raids, maybe warrior or druid for RS 25 HC for the dodge but nothing more, dk and pala are so valuable thats not even close and druids are good but they are better as healers or dps for the raid
i played the expansion for around 10 years in official and private servers btw
Good summary!
I recall my tauren dk having a larger health pool than any other tank I encountered. The tauren racial combined with me stacking stamina gems and enchants on everything, combined with the stam on plate tank gear was insane.
Tauren racial is drastically nerfed in Wotlk, has almost no impact.
@@crboxRTS it's not nerfed it's still 5% base hp increase. In an expansion where tanks focus stacking stamina an extra 5% is always nice
@@brodelnaz Yes, 5% BASE health, so it's not nearly as good anymore. For a DK it should be around 400 HP at lvl 80.
@@schmidth for a tauren who has the highest base stamina plus an additional 5% it helps. More hp by any means.
What about frost dks?
I recall a shield block ability for paladins that increases block chance by 30% as part of the rotation.
It was the only spec that could solo Storming Stormwind :D due to huge amount of avoidance, ardent defender and seal of light/judgment of light. It just took ages.
Nice. Pallys are S rank healer, dps and tank.
So... all 3 specs of DK can tank in this era. Most tanks if not all DKs where either frost or unholy (pre unholy nerf). I can't think of one time I ran into a blood DK.
Most DK tanks are blood now. The frost/unholy tanking still sort of works, but isn't godmode like when wrath first released. That's my understanding.
By the last patch of wotlk (which should be what we get) Blood was made the official tank and the specs were changed to make the other specs not work anymore than a fury warrior or kitty can offtank.
What about Frost and Unholy DK Tanks? They were def a thing.
And they are not viable, they are just inherently worse than blood
@@dova1072 That is actually irrelevant though. Toyhouze included Subtlety, Assassination, Frost, and other "inherently worse than" trees in his DPS video. He should have included all tanking trees/specs for the sake of completeness.
Not going to say he should have included Beast Master or Demonology pet tanking, and Unholy should perhaps come with the caveat of "really only useful in a very few magic-heavy fights" (IIRC), but if you're going to post a video in a factual sense instead of an opinion piece then you should at least provide complete information.
Hell, Frost and Blood tanking go right in line with the mitigation versus health difference between Protection Warriors and Feral Druids he highlighted at the start of the video.
@@Mesterick by the final patches of wotlk they simply weren't tank specs was only the beggining/middle, if wotlk classic happens it'll be the final patch before cata prepatch just like classic and tbc classic
Easy: Don't be a warrior. Done.
And don’t be a feral tank, play a resto 🙁
I plan on going unholy tank when the expansion drops. Tried it when it launched when I was 9 but also kinda just wanted to nuke everything so I switched around the talents. I want to do it better this time. Any pointers?
Dont go unholy if you want to tank as a DK. Blood is best but frost and unholy only have niche utility. You can do it, not really hard in dungeons but for raids you will find yourself lacking in big CD's and other kinds of buffs people will bring DK tanks for.
Useless unless you're bis and specced so far into dodge and parry that you can keep your bone shield up for more than 5 sec
Even for dungeon spam while first gearing up, you'll want to go blood (up to will of the necropolis) with unholy subspec and get all the aoe + spell dmg centric talents (blood boil dmg, reduced cd on DnD). Then also the DnD glyph.
Throw on some 1 hander tank weapons to reach that defense cap quickly until you can reach it comfortably with a good 2hander (heroic Utgarde Keep has a 2.5 speed 1h that is great for mh).
Do this and the early dungeons will be easy.
Make sure to get crafted gear for naxx drop. That stuff has an insane amount of stamina, particularly the crafted titansteel helm.
Problem: I wanna roll DK tank (Tanking with 2 handed weapons is just badass) but expect not to get spots because everyone will be a DK. Does some1 has insite on private Realms how man DKs actually are tanks?
I have a ton of experience as DK tank (multiple end of tier realm first on progressive blizzlike private servers with buffed content). If you want to be the main tank youll need to be very knowledgeable about fights and stand out. Ask me anything
DK is one of the strongest tanks by far people just praise pallys for "cheat death" talent just because its safety net for crappy healers
This video is wrong on so many levels. Love these people that have no clue just pumping useless videos.
Double paladin for speedrun comps so you can bring fewer healers and more DPS. Double Blood DK for parse guilds for Hysteria. The rest will probably just run a mix of the top 3 with prot warriors being the most undesirable.
I had a good friend who only played warrior from vanilla - wrath, was so pissed about what Blizzard did to his class he quit the game and never played again.
Bad news for feral druids and Warriors) In wotlk will be only x2 main tank Pally and Dk (no one won’t give a spot for warrior and Druid can be only the 3rd off tank / cat dps) Going to respec and play in resto spec in wotlk
Bro guilds will be running bear too it gets way better, especially for non speedrunning guilds
I liked resto a lot tho, wild regrowth was op
i dunno mate, there are too many mayor mistakes in your video, i cannot trust your judgement
hard to take these vids seriously when you start them with such hyperbolic opinions. makes me disregard your thoughts on any of the classes tbh.
You want to to with a blood dk as MT most of the time with prot pala OT, the BDK has so many cooldowns and by far the best single target threat. You got it very wrong with putting prot pally as higher single target threat and DK aoe threat is very weak outside of DnD which is not reliable since long cd.
And DK is imo the most fun tank by far since u actually can and will have to plan out your runes to be able to do large selfhealing or large threat with management of your death runes. However prot pally is very chill to play since its very braindead and u pretty much press ur abilities in the same sequence barring the occational shield wall/raid sac etc so for a raid leader a prot paladin is very good for keeping track of timers and whatnot
Na dude, Prot is fine for single target and gets better overall stats once you hit Ulduar and start stacking stam. They are insane and there is really no reason not to run them all the time
@@avincombat939 i never said prot wasnt fine for single target, they are more then fine for being MT, iust rhat their ST threat isnt super high
@@cempas Compared to a dk yes. Prot pally has Waaaaaaay more threat single target than the other tanks tho.
You forget spicing it up with a glyphed Hand of Salvation on yourself.
Sacrificing aggro for damage reduction.
Very fun if you know what to do.
Cempas has it exactly right
M8 great job u done but u realy missed a looot.....u skiped many other important talents and mechanics to mention that would define better each class....like damaging shield,incite,impr thunder clap,enrage and critical block for warr tanks!!for frost and unh dk tanks unbreakable armor high armor tank,3% reduced chance to be hit, acclimation for resistances on magic schools, lichborne for charm fear sleep, howling spam ability aoe cheap spam....bone shield, antimagic zone,impr anti magic shell, aoe descr slow on plague strike.....all those mechanics are very important to mention m8 for 2nd or offtank
Literally the next "good" expansion was Legion and nothing good after Legion
How crazy is that? cata/mop/wod all bad. I quit after legion also and it’s never gotten close to it since
Which tank do you think is the most fun to play?
Personally I like class fantasy combined with how good they are, so for me either DK or Paladin.
Prot pally hands down
Where is the Shaman xD ok never the best but wotlk mini pala time ^^
Warrior > pally damage reduce
Where would rank frost DK tank on this list?
I'd say probably like B tier
@@Toyhouze interesting I would’ve guessed about equal to feral. (Totally uneducated guess)
B tier above prot you think?
not even mentioning d sac or the usefullness of BoP to cheese fights such as DB saurfang later on 3/10 video