How to Install Downlights With No Access Above | It is Possible!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- In this electrical DIY guide i will be showing you how to install downlights when you have no access above the ceiling. I will take you through the process step by step so that you can install spotlights in your ceiling! We will cover everything from drilling through joists to wiring the lights. If you like the video then leave a like, please subscribe for more content like this and check out the other videos on my channel, there are a lot more electrical guides!
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What’s next? Loads planned for the autumn and winter! 😊
I think you should show us how to install glass doors
Can you show us how to tile?
and how to plaster?
Show all the old bulbs from the old ceiling lights
Nice content. Could you please do a video on mounting onto metal stud walls. I do a lot of wall hangings and brick and timber frame walls are ok but these modern metal frame walls do my head in.
Amazing , I wanted to know how to do this since your first video on downlights , thanks so much for this , really useful
Glad it was helpful!
Briliant channel that I've just discovered and subscribed to. Your videos are very well presented and helped me a lot. However, got a bit confused in this one regarding feeding the wires through and the order. I think a diagram would be very useful for us novices!
Welcome aboard! Good suggestion
Brilliant video. Please be aware your only supposed to drill holes in the joists between 0.25 and 0.4 of the joist span. You have drilled holes through the centre of the span.
And in terms of the vertical position you drill through, you should aim to be at mid-height of the depth of the joist. This is the point of lowest bending stress.
I was looking for this comment! Just about to say the same thing ... Drilling holes in the bottom centre is probably the worst
I'm looking at doing this, can you put it into lehmans terms how yous drill a joist please
@@andrewsmith2289 Google building regulations on holes and notches in joists. Lots of good information, check Google images to get a simpler view
@@andrewsmith2289If you don't know how to drill a joist then you shouldn't be doing electrical work. Call an electrician.
An engineer's view on this: holes should be drilled along the neutral axis of a joist to prevent weakening of the structure. Drilling through the bottom half of a joist weakens the portion that is in tension.
Probably worth isolating the lighting circuit before running a hole saw through the ceiling, in case the cable is just laying on top!
How do you identify which cable is the switch live and which one is the supply? All the lights in my new build house just have the usual live, neutral and earth so I'm assuming I don't need one of these and just daisy chain the lights as normal?
Brilliant
Thanks
The ceiling looks to be artex which could contain asbestos was this checked before any drilling?
Yes it was
Has he done his ladder training lol. Dose not look like it lol
Great video, another time saver tip, if you drill your cut out holes on the joist, then notch your joist for cable then use metal box lid over the notch. Plaster board cut out will then go back , less faffing about making good. The hole saw needs to be bigger than width of joist. Also dont need to check both sides of joist, for cables/pipes.
Another excellent video! Just one point to add, it's worth getting the ceiling check for asbestos which is dangerous to breathe in, I recently found I have asbestos which prevented me installing downlight until I get it removed. I hope you don't mind me mentioning this, in older houses it is important to check.
Yep I agree 👍
Most artex ceilings are asbestos, it’s how they got the pattern to hold its shape
Is it weird I prefer the chandelier? Maybe you plan to change the ceiling though..?
Haha yes it is being skimmed
@@TheDIYGuy1 That answers my feelings. The ceiling was clearly designed to be paired with the chandelier. Now you have new lights, new ceiling awaits!
Nah I agree, I think chandeliers and pendants are so much more interesting than spotlights
Nice one Cameron, every detail covered. I'm sure a lot of home DIY'ers get worried about drilling in to the ceiling, terrified of what damage they could cause, but thanks to the excellent explanation of use of little tools you have taken most if not all the fear out of it. Another cracking vid, Paul.
Thanks a lot Paul for the continued comments and support. It doesn’t go un-noticed 👍
@@TheDIYGuy1 I do it as I really enjoy the guides, sadly I'm not rich enough to add to the Patreon (but would do if I was). But yes, dead interesting content that deserves a thank you from us lot.
Yeah and how to kill them selves not to mention empowering mere morals with trade secrets. Way to go big guy!
If your not a qualified part P ot NIC EIC or equivalent electrician you legally cannot do this , take no notice of unqualified Pratt builders ,
@@mikebotta4494 When giving an opinion or point, there's no need for ignorant abuse..
Im a fully qualified electrician. Great job mate and brilliantly done. Ive just finished a job like this that had no access above and this is exactly how I do it well done!! 👍
Thanks a lot 😊
Did you check the opposite of the joist for clipped cables?
Yes, I did show that in the video using a ferret pro inspection camera
I wasn't meant to send that. I pasted it in error and the phone died.
I enjoy your videos and they are well detailed.
Good video and the way to do it. Would be worth a mention that it would require a certificate, and switching it on is not testing it is it? Bit more to it. But looks better than last job done by a bedroom fitter that I fixed!
Why are you encouraging DIYers? The whole point of the IET, BS7671, NICEIC, NAPIT etc is to promote safe electrical installations by qualified electricians. As a qualified electrician I would never point advice towards DIYers or the unqualified. No one other than a qualified electrician should be making an alteration to an existing circuit.
You are a top Geezer. This is what TH-cam is supposed to be about.
Nice work , what type mcb is that lighting circuit on ? and what’s the R1 +R2 & tripping time .Only I was always told not to make the circuit live until I have checked the results. Thanks
Or to add to a circuit without knowing if it was OK to add too, is it 30mA RCD protected? Does the property even have a main earth? Is the correct bonding in place?.. basic stuff like that. It's OK though because it works when you turn the switch on. Not sure if he mentioned using fire rated downlights either?
Why not drill straight on the joists and loop the wire around the joist and fill in.
Drill the holes further from the joist depending on the length of your wood bit then use a nice wee angled chuck. That way the holes through the joists are horizontal and a bit easier to get rods through. Also makes it easier to reach the back of each joist if you need to move cables out of the way. Not tried that lighting system yet but it does look handy.
Good tips 👍
When replacing the ‘puck’ into the holes you make to drill through the joists it’s a good idea to remove the backing paper from the upper side (that you won’t see). This gives just a little relief for when you a filling the hole to give a better finish. Also using a fine ball-chain on the lead end of the rods makes it easier to fish the rods out using a hook or magnet.
Thanks for sharing your methods
One of your the best videos yet, after serving as an apprentice and alway been given these type jobs you really made that look effortless can’t believe all the gadgets that are available these days. Keep it going.
Wow, thank you!
This is the exact job I have to do this week, the timing is perfect! Thanks for a great video.
Great, you got it!
Another great videos Cameron 👌 nice to hear about the insulation issue as well as im about to do our bathroom ceiling, quick wire looks the bees knees !
Thanks 👍, all the best with yours
Did you have the artex tested for asbestos content before drilling? If so, do you recommend getting a company to test, or getting one of the DIY kits?
Yes 👍. Either is better than none.
Blue grit and plaster.....What asbestos!!
My ceilings are concrete as I live in a block of flats,we only have metal conduit in the concrete? Flush with ceilings 🤥
You could install a false ceiling, would lower the height of the ceiling slightly but then you have a blank canvas to do as you please, and you can get your wiring done before the plaster board goes up too 🙂
All good chap, but one little tip when drilling holes for downlights, keep the hss drill bit as short as possible in the hole saw, it only needs to guide in the hole saw and keep it from skidding off line, if it's sticking out 2" it asking for trouble hitting unseen cables or pipes.. from my own experience..:)
Thanks Cameron, I love learning from all your uploads. They are super helpful.
Glad you like them! Thanks
Me like “what this is impossible” 2 hours later it is working
Brilliant 🤩
Excellent video. Did most of this a few months ago. But the ceiling was seriously chaotic with solid insulation, nails, screws... it's a loft extension ceiling under a flat roof. There was space above insulation under OSB with wedges over the joists for the roof slope. Got there in the end. Screwfix had a refurbished Magnussen inspection camera that I snapped up - exactly what I needed. I prefer 1.5mm² but my lamps struggled with it. In this case, I used 3-core flexible cable and ferrules. Still got my dust holder for the hole saw, thank goodness. Took a week for skin to get over the scraping from hand and arm in the holes!
😂 classic example of it not being an easy job! At least you got it done! Thanks
Another great video. I know your channel is called DIY Guy but are you a pro helping out DIYers mate?
Great video and great tips. Never been a fan of down lights myself. But great video none the less.
Thanks for watching!
I’m first and excited!!
😂 well in
Superb video, just done this in my kitchen project! El3ctrician with 44 years experience!
Brilliant, thanks 🙏
Leave the lights off after testing, bag them for rhe plasterer ro avoid splash damage, and leave the cut outs for the plasterer to use or use no nails on underside of wood
Absolutely yes.
Great to have someone to come to who knows what they are doing and can simplify everything for amateurs like me. Many thanks
Brilliant! I felt I was actually there in the room doing it. Many many thanks.
Best wishes
Peter
Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers
I'd suggest you drill/cut an inspection hole each side of the joist where you are about to drill through. Also, I'd suggest your hole saw pilot drill doesn't stick out so much (in case there are wires/pipes resting on the ceiling. What about the Part P aspects (earthing, circuit protection, testing, certification, etc)?
What about Part P ? ?
Great instruction Buddy. Is that a Norfolk accent!!
Thanks. Yep 👍
I don't think we can use QuickWire connectors in the States. Question though: The QuickWire connector in the center of the room, you probably used two outputs so you could run one separately out to the opposite sides of the room, right? Great show, thank you.
Might be worth mentioning that generally Artex ceilings pre 1985 have asbestos in them. I would be very cautious about the dust created!
I know there’s none in this one but for others yes, checking is advised.
Great video by the way.
Thanks
Thanks for taking the mystery out of this task. I'm tempted to give it a go as I've got two single light and they have always looked a bit "lost".
Do it! 👍
Great tutorial, it's important to mention that all lighting circuits in domestic household premises must now have RCD protection. Reg. 411.3.4 as of 18th edition wiring regs in UK.
A lot of lighting circuits in older houses haven't got this as they were installed to older versions of the electrical regs.
Yes you can do like for like upgrade of existing light points, but if you are adding new wire, it's classed as an addition to the existing installation and the circuit should be brought up to meet current standards. If the circuit doesn't have RCD protection, then you should get an electrician to assess, test and upgrade the lighting circuit first before doing this work as this is classed as an "addition / alteration to the electrical installation".
Sometimes, 2 separate lighting circuits in older houses shared neutrals between 2 or more fuses/breakers (upstairs/downstairs) and this can cause a problem when trying to add the RCD protection to one of the circuits! In addition to this:
Class 1 downlights must be earthed, some older historic lighting circuits did not have an earth connection! So you must use Class II downlights or have the circuit re-wired to ensure you have a continuous CPC all the way back to the fuseboard.
No basic coloured insulation should be visible outside of enclosure, or termination above the light,
If in a special location such as a bathroom they should be suitably IP rated to stop steam from entering the fitting,
Loop impedance test should be carried out on the last light on the daisy chain to check continuity of the CPC (green yellow earth) and make sure that, in the event of a fault, the circuit breaker will trip within 4ms,
RCD should be tested from the last light as well as the switch point.
If you have a bedroom above the room you are installing downlights, I strongly recommend these should be fire rated to prevent the spread of fire from lower floor to upper floor.
....and lets not go down the rabbit hole of led dimmable downlights vs. older dimmer switches and all the flickering and premature failure issues that can cause!
It's mad that this is one of the few comments without a reply from him...
Home insurance products can not cover anything not within regs.
50mm noted but no RCD mentioned, easier ways 🙄
'to meet current standards'
Sure. But what about the voltage standards ? 🙂
Great comments BTW.
I wondered about doing this. Looks a bit awkward for an amateur like me but I'm tempted.
You can do it
@@TheDIYGuy1 I'd have to buy all the kit first.
Would an easier option be to cut bigger holes for access with a multi tool and then board over the ceiling at the end?
Great job, but I can’t help wondering how long it will be before the downlighting trend goes out of fashion and gets ripped out. I find them too harsh and prefer wall-based uplighters.
Maybe 👍
Not anytime soon, been going since the 90's so will be a long time
Great as ever...costing me a fortune in new gadgets....but worth it, my ferret arrived yesterday wife a bit fed up with me playing with it in bed...so far 🤣🤣
😂😂😂 brilliant comment that one. Cheers
Good video. Could you do a video on wired wall sconces on each side of a bed?
Great suggestion!
Why did they change from red/black to brown/blue for electrical wires. I'm guessing it's to help colour blind people?
Pukka video mate. I've wanted to do this for ages but was never sure how to tackle this. Will definitely give this a go.
Go for it! Cheers
Brilliant video. Will these go through double thickness plasterboard which I’ve got? 🤦🏻♂️
Should do 👍
Great video mate, thinking of attempting this but concerned if there are noggins running perpendicular between the joists, could that happen?
Thanks. It could but isn’t likely in most cases. If that were the case you could just drill more access holes.
I do it like that most of the time because in my area most houses are chip board flooring & customers like to skim over the artex anyway.
👍
As a fully qualified spark it warms my heart to hear you call it a CPC 😂 great video as always. My favourite channel on youtube 👍🏻
Haha yep you have to say cpc these days ;). Thank you very much!
Great video! Thank you so much for posting! We have a couple of jobs come up. And one without access which we were about to leave due to the access. This is brilliant! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video, and I have done this exactly like you, several times. Honestly, the toughest part for me is what you show at the end, the Drywall patching. On a Ceiling you need the drywall repair to be pretty much perfect. Seriously. You almost always view a ceiling from an obtuse angle and that shows the flaws much more than a wall does. Anyway... when you patch, I always use a Primer like Kilz or similar. Otherwise you will see the Mud thru the paint, it will be slightly off color. I almost always repaint the entire ceiling in a room that size.... Scary the first time you do one, it looks like a Gopher infestation when you cut all the holes you need to wire thru the Ceiling Joists. TOTALLY worth it in the end! Primer is cheap... use something like Kilz over the patch
Just get an ai rat with strong teeth to drag the cable along maybe the future for electricians.
Awesome video!!! Love that Quickwire Kit ;)
Me too! Cheers
As an electrician of old it’s good to see the advancements in the technology and skills now employed. This video is really helpful to keep up to date. I’ll definitely be looking at the quick wire products. 👍
👍 Absolutely
Just found your channel, and it's mega! Great video. If you see this comment, I do have an electrical question that I've always wondered about. AC is both neutral and live at 50hz(or whatever it is), so why does it matter which way around the power wires go? Genuine question, not trying to make a silly comment. Thanks. "Subscribed"
This is exactly what I've' looking for for weeks! Thanks
Glad I could help!
The government are currently being approached to put electrical work into the same bracket as gas work.
All seems safe but no mention of RCDs, testing, identification of conductors, fire rating, IP rating, band separation...
Textured ceilings???
wow seen a few downlight videos and none were explained as slowly clearly and concise as you did and none made it look half as easy as you showed with the connectors and lights ect im seriously considering doing this to my flat im just a DIYer but think i could do this, if anyone has watched and feels the same please reply be ace to hear if anyone has tackled this at there home and how its come out would give me even more confidence to try myself cheers guys and cheers DIY GUY for the awsome vids
The best thing about putting them in yourself is that you don't run the risk of a pushy workman persuading you that you need ½ as many again as truly necessary.
Doin myself out of a job here, as was, I don't think that I've been on a site or even watched sthg like Grand Designs, without me shouting
"Too many downlighters, it's like a airport runway or office building in here!"
Good luck and wear goggles if you're going to do it. Nothing worse than a past owner's inter~floor dust and gubbins in yer eyes or ears even!
@@JP_TaVeryMuch oh yea deffo mate dust mask as well health and safety is key always key and a fibre glass step ladder just incase
Hate to be that guy.. but some of the information in this video is wrong. Picked up from the 18th Edition wiring regulations:
You can't just aimlessly drill holes where you want in the joists it will weaken them.
Holes
Should only be drilled on the centre line of the joist.
Should have a diameter no greater than 0.25 times the depth of the joist.
Should be no closer together than 3 times the larger diameter.
Should be no closer to the support than 0.25 times the span and no further away than 0.4 times the span.
If the above requirements cannot be met within the limitation shown, then increase the joist depth by the depth of notches or diameter of holes.
Great video….just what I’ve been waiting for mate. I hope you are getting rid of the Artex ceiling? EDIT. Ok you are..phew!
Haha I see your edit 😊
@@TheDIYGuy1haha what was it before
If you're cutting the board why make such a tiny P.I.T.A hole? Plaster is plaster. Patching a small hole is no more work than a big hole. In fact I'd just cut a channel out the whole run.
Thanks Cameron. Great video. Would you kind enough to show us a diagram of how you daisy chained your wire in conjunction with the ceiling joists please ? would be great to see a visual diagram of the wiring and the holes you made. thanks
Those QuickWire junctions are really neat.
I have GU10 ceramic bulb holders - what do recommend please to daisy-chain the connections?
My question is, can I do this without my housing association landlord knowing?
very sloppy work. use the joist to transfer the wires. get a 6"+ hole saw to be able to drill, pass the wire, and patch. Never seen someone do your shenanigans. Im going to assume you are a DIYer amateur.
I don't suppose your taking any apprenticeships on mate.
Quick question Cameron, do these quick wire connectors work okay with flex? Or does it have to be flat twin n earth?
I'm changing downlights and one existing downlight goes through an old style junction box with three cables all connected together. I have no idea which cable of the three is for the downlight and which two are for the power and load as you describe it in your video. How can I tell which is which? Thanks.
Are you planning on doing a loft boarding video for storage at some point?
Oh yes at some stage 😊
good I hope its one that allows for the insulation to be intact @@TheDIYGuy1
Oh yes 👍
Just rip the ceiling down and price it in.😂 like a good electrician bullshitter does.And im qualified registered scammer.foff
I’m just about to embark on my first house purchase and it’s needs a refurb and I’m defo going be doing the majority of it to save on the costs you make it look so easy cheers Cameron
Brilliant good luck
Can i use quickwire push clip boxes instead of the wago grey box in your other spotlight video to power the spotlight chain instead of using the orange connector switches then storing them in the wago grey clip box
This is exactly how I did it in my kitchen... New builds offer no access above😂 seems mad cutting loads of holes but those plaster circles just screw into place with a small batten underneath for support then a quick skim of filler... Messy though but worth it.. I also used a camera and fibre glass rods to feed the cables as we had insulation which hindered the cable being pushed.. Joy 😂
Haha well in 👍
That was either very brave or very stupid taking the hole saw through the ceiling as there could have been copper pipe work or cables in the ceiling void then it’s drop the ceiling time , there is a safer way but it still requires a degree of making good but it eliminates the risk of damaging cables or live copper pipe work.
Good job. Iam
A spark .. well
Done
Thanks a bunch 👍
Isn't artex ceilings asbestos risks?
Not in my case but check if your unsure before proceeding
How do I go about fitting these in a bungalow ceiling with very thick insulation in the loft space
Guy that done mine just cut a notch on the plasterboard and clipped the cable to the joist, filled and painted.
I saw this video before the first one as I wanted to install downlights in my living room, and I was a bit scared to drill the extra holes and through the joists. However, I saw the first one, got a bit of confidence to attempt it in my bedroom with loft access, then went back to this one and did my living room and it look absolutely amazing. Best guide on here.
Very good and helpful advice good video I’ve used them when they first came out and I’m doing the bathroom and I try the downlighting one 👍👍👍👍👍
👍
Love this content. Just bought a new house with lots of DIY to crack on with. Learned a lot so far, ty
Great to hear!
Great video - Were you not concerned about the potential for asbestos in the artex?
Very nice job 👍🏻 well explained, but what if you’ve no down light in the room and only have wall lights to feed off?
Cheers
It’s do able! But does require a slightly different approach.
Im a builder n i find your videos pure brill. Great advice, easy to follow n I might need to hide this channel from my wife lol
Thanks a lot 👍. 😂 brilliant
Wonder if this vid's sponsored by Quickwire... 🤔🤔
Yes, I am happy to recommend great products on my channel. I only ever allow sponsors that I support and believe are a great brand for my audience.
@@TheDIYGuy1 Just being a bit sarky, love your vids, glad you did this one as ceiling access is often not available
👍👍
Not sure how you managed to drill a hole where the centre light was as 99% of the time the existing light would be screwed in to a joist or timber .
Also always check the Earth is satisfactory before proceeding. It’s not uncommon to find in old houses the earths are not connected throughout the house lighting system as sometimes twin and earth cable is incorrectly added in the past to twin cable that doesn’t have a earth.
Other than that nice video
@andysims4906 Not always, in this case Plasterboard fixings we’re used to secure the light in this case. But yes it is common as you say. If there were timber I would have moved my centre light over and created my light pattern from that. I know my cpc continuity is good due to testing during our recent rewire. That makes the video just…. Good 😉
I want to do the exact opposite ,swapping 2 spot lights to one central ceiling light.
How much you charge if I hire you mate? 😊
Do Quickwire junction boxes meet US code?
Great one Buddy this is a real winner of a video from someone who know's what they are talking about
👍
Excellent but I would have to leave this to an electrician.
How to find out which way the joists are positioned?
Using a pencil and stud finder 👍
What are you doing to the ceiling looks like thinset lol great job
Those connectors are ace. Done a few lights in my time and nowhere as neat as that 👍👍
Yes they are, cheers
I would like you see that doing in mine crib with 80cm full concrete ceilings 😂😂🤣🤣🤦♂🤦♂🤦♂🤦♂