DON'T Make These Mistakes when Changing Downlights 🚫
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2024
- Many people get these 5 things wrong when they change recessed lights! That's why in this video we show you how to avoid making rookie mistakes while working on your electrics at home 😎 Comment if you have made any of these mistakes before!
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⏱️Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction
01:00 - One Classic Mistake
01:36 - Showing You How It’s Done
02:58 - Important Tips
04:23 - Another Common Mistake
05:36 - What I would Do
06:50 - Why IP Rating Is Important
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4 out of 10, that’s a lot harsh ! At least the Cpc were connected !!
But then you don’t want to give TOO much praise to someone else’s work !!
I really wish merchants would stop selling non fire rated downlights! The added expense is so tiny that as a rule of thumb you should absolutely never buy non fire rated ones. Other than the obvious "it can save your life" reason, the fire rated ones maintain the integrity of the ceiling meaning that they reduce sound transmission, the spread of dust, and generally tend to be more reliable since they have to be tested to a higher standard.
"better safe than sorry" approach - I liked the IP65 units in my bathroom so much I used them in 3 other rooms
Great video. Having watched many others this goes a step further
That’s some nice tips thank as always 🇨🇮😎
Man-stimate on the 8mm I'd say!
According to the NEN 3140 standard that applies to me in the Netherlands, I must leave the earth wire slightly longer than the phase and the neutral, so that if any wires come loose, the earth is the last to come loose and the housing of the lamp remains protected with an earth wire.
And the IP grade in bathrooms depends on the distance between the electrical object and water, sometimes IP 44 is enough, but there are other places in the bathroom where a higher IP grade is mandatory.
It remains nice to see the differences between 2 countries. Even though they are geographically so close to each other.
Sounds sensible on the earth wire. We have the same principle in our UK plugs.
That’s a pretty good rule 👍
Yep, I think it is the same in Australia (or at least best practice/what good electricians will do without even thinking about it).. The AU/NZ plugs have the earth pin longer than the others for that reason too: last pin to be disconnected if half out.. Fairly common across electrical plug design though.
At least here in Austria higher than IP44 is barely necessary unless you mount the light pretty much directly on the bathtub-wall or shower-wall.
Then it's ~75cm to the sides/on top for IP44 requirement and the same goes for lights close to washing basins.
Personally when doing anything electrical in the bathroom I just go with IP44 and make sure to have it a reasonable distance away from any splash source. :)
When I was completing my apprenticeship in the UK back in 1979 my college taught us the same rule. But I don't see this happening much in the UK today!
Thank you we are learning.
Excellent. Thanks.
I have always been taught to always leave the earth wire just slightly longer. So when the cable gets pulled out, the earth wire is always the last do disconnect. This is especially a good thing to do for (dutch) plugs, since some people have the bad habit to unplug them by pulling on the cord.
fHi, thanks for your nice videos. I was looking into OSG page 105 and I was wondering if the IP rating IPX4 is only needed below 2.25 m ceilings for bathroom lighting or apply all bathrooms? Thanks
I get what your saying about the cpc being connected outside of the fitting, however using a wago box surely is another unneeded joint! I just go collingwood or Jcc fully enclosed Led job done
What exact wire strippers did you use in this video?
In my current home there is a centre bathroom light , but up in your loft is ,3 old glass downlights, they were on in the loft when I first moved in , luckily I knew how to disconnect them properly and leave the centre light in place 🤭😆
I am thankful that most of our cabling in Australia has insulated earth inside, not a bare conductor. I know a earth sleaving doesn't take long, but doing a whole house job, it does save time not having to do it :).
Great video. It's a bit crazy what people do and think it's all good. You'd think they would want to make sure their house doesn't burn down.
And that we have 413s then just plug an all in one D/L in
the bare earth is by design, if a screw or nail passes through there`s more chance of causing a short and tripping the circuit protection than if it was fully insulated
Cablw with an integral insulated cpc is now available from Doncaster cables.
Had to change all the downlighters in my house where the last owners didn't put fire rated ones in downstairs and non IP rated downlighters in the bathroom, completely open bulbs. Their wiring was a horror show too, needless to say everything is properly enclosed using decent connectors.
hi intesting vid , what make is the wire stripper please ,does it work ? cheers
How do i change the bulb in the light shown at 5 mins into this vid?
Many thanks.
Jordan, the problem you have with this video is that the bathroom and kitchen fitters won't watch it. If they do they won't care either. I have a number of lights and extractor to sort out in a weeks time done by said bathroom fitters. It's a total distaster.
They shouldn't be doing it to begin with.
Surely they can be sued if there is no minor works etc
Well those that don’t care don’t give a damn and will continue not too, and those that do it right you’ll never know about you’re none the wise. And Jordan well he wouldn’t wago box the feed to encapsulate the cpc as he decided later in the vid he would tuck it folded sleeved in the fitting somehow thinking that’s a better. Yet lazy option. I see it consistently… I must ad make 2 core for a reason not sure why most sparks are reluctant to run DI downlights in it
But they are electricians, they’ve done their one week course!
@@moto-bruvs666 damn silly me I do forget how fast these newbies learn now 🤣
I updated down lights that have been in our house since built in 2004. It had ip20 in the bathrooms not fire rated and single layer insulation (cut too far back) I presume these were installed by an electrician when build but have the rules changed? because I thought this was shocking. It was also covered by insulation with no protective cover I put in Lap fire rated ip65 for bathrooms to replace them. Great video as reassured me I did the right thing ❤
Not all downlights need to be IP44+ rated in a bathroom despite what he says. It depends on the zone. If your ceilings are high enough you can have zero IP rated downlights directly above a shower if you want. Not that I’d recommend that, but it wouldn’t be a breach of regs. As for insulation, more often then not it’s the guys installing the insulation that cover over the downlights, not the other way round. 👍
Hmm my house was done mid 90’s and as far as I can see all th3 downlights are like the non fir rated one H showed. What should I do?
I felt the pain when you got your fingers caught in the downright removal 😅 happened to me couple weeks ago removing a set of 10 and got my finger caught on the first 2😅
Unless you only have one hand your doing something wrong , pop the spring off if it’s tight because someone didn’t wanna buy another holesaw size
He rule is if they catch a finger you have to shout MOUSETRAP... 😅
Hi there, great video thank you! :)
Quick question though - what is the best way to tell which light is the first in the circuit, especially if there are two switches in the room?
It’s the one with three cables
@moto-bruvs666 no only certain types of wiring have 3 cables at the first light easiest way to find out is to disconnect lights until one is left from that switch
Look for the corner downlight located nearest to either of the switches.
I know it's 50/50 but better than removing them to follow the wiring.
Separate the lives to see if you got it.
If you're going to the trouble of a Wago box for onwards connectivity, any reason not to use a Click Flow type connector? Also means you can do half the wiring and testing at ground level
With you all the way 👍
That's good.
The solutions are already out there.
They let you terminate the twin and earth correctly regardless of whether the driver/fitting requires an earth.
And they have a Loop terminal for that permanent live.
More time consuming though.
Always use these, brilliant!
@@FirstDan2000once you’ve fitted a few they only take a couple minutes to do, easier than any klik system or junction box much less faff and expense
I've always wondered what risk is being mitigated by putting 10mm of sleaving on the CPC while sealing it in a box
Here in Denmark we have to use cabel ratet to 90 degress
Many DIYers leave stranded wires without ferrules. Plumbers like to use 2x0.75mm cables for powering self-transfering water meters. But the biggest problem is furniture installers: they never wire electric stoves correctly 😢 many of them have no idea how to share neutral wire between cooktop and oven, so oven working from 400 volts and then fails cause of overvoltage.
A beautiful and funny video😊😊
How easy is it to remove those downlights from the ceiling if necessary?
I would love to see more about the rules about down lights in bathrooms, I have always heard you guys talking about IPX4 in bathrooms as a general rule, which makes sense but in BS7671 it only specifies IP ratings in zones 0, 1 &2 and most ceilings are not in those zones, for examples in a wet room above 2.25m is outside zone, does a downlighting here need to be IP44? Where is this specified in BS7671?
The fitting should be suitable for its environment, so although it may be out of zone, an IP20 downlight probably won't be suitable for that environment. I think it mainly comes down to the engineering judgement of the designer/installer.
BS7671 + common sense = IP rated Downlights in bathroom. Most decent LED integrated are all fire rated, IP rated anyways
Hold the springs tightly at the sides before pulling down from the ceiling. School boy error.
I never understood why people install separate drivers for each mr16 low voltage fitting. Just use one that has the power to drive all the lights at the start of the string.
What’s the benefit of having lights with transformer as suppose to connecting to mains?
Hi - Thanks for this youtube blog. I'm the classic and typical DIY'er / Electrician (& Colour blind)
Whats the rules for IP rated spot lights? Is it the higher the IP number the better? So IP44 or greater for bathrooms? (IP99)?
I've also had lots of problems when changing normal lights to spot lights and dimmer switches not working or lights flickering didn't realise not all dimmer switches work on all spot lights - Maybe your next blog hey? - Thanks again,
With dimmer switches, you need to biy "intelligent" bulbs, no less!
What I personally can't really find an answer to, is whether downlights should be wired in series or in parallel. I understand the differences and implications, but is there a more general rule of thumb?
You should have included a link to those wire strippers. They look pretty neat.
A few brands are available, but they are automatic wire strippers, possibly CK brand
They are CK, I have them
@@dougsaunders8109 Thanks, I think I'll get a pair.
Note to get people shouting. As a domestic house probably doesn't have fire doors it is classed as one fire compartment. As the downlights aren't breaching a fire compartment they aren't required to be fire rated, as the smoke and heat will get through the cheap door quickly anyway. Of course if the worst does happen you'll still have to explain why you didn't fit them.
Not absolutely sure but if a house has three floors the doors must be fire doors therefore the Downlights will have to be fire rated
Some years ago, I moved into a house with (wait for it) Halogen downlighters - all fitted wifh horrible 'insulative' heat shields.
Concerned about the heat they generate, I swapped to LED downlighters. I found that a couple of the original lamps had got so hot that they partially melted the 250volt to 12v transformers! How on earth did Halogens ever get 'passed' for use in the first place?!
It also depends on what the room is. So take a room above a garage requires fire proof down light. If it’s a HMO (house in multiple occupation) where it’s effectively different people living different areas require them. Last time I checked if it’s a single occupation even bedrooms above do not require fire proof Down lights, but it’s advisable to fit them as the are not much more expensive. Lots of sparkies insist on fireproof.
Regs state that if there is a room above the ceiling that the down light is in for a residential property. It needs to be fire rated.
Always wondered why the manufacturer doesn't sleeve the earth conductor during manufacture - in every AE video I've seen, the sleeve has to be added just prior to connection to device:)
Now available from Doncaster cables!
Do we actually need a fire rating in a 2 storey house? I mean there is no harm in doing it, but is it needed?
How about suggesting you turn off the fuse at the fuse box, before doing anything else?
Mistake 6... not watching my fingers when pulling them down
Slight off tangent, but for kitchen - round flat panel LED lights are wonderful, sooooooooo much better that downlighters.
1) They reduce shadows as they are an area panel
2) They are not point sources, so not too bright to look at directly
3) They distribute the light better around the room
4) You need less as each panel produces a lot of light, and are usually surface mounted so you don't break the fire barrier
5) They are usually dimmerable - so you can set them to a brightness you require
6) Usually you can change the light frequency - from a bluish white to a warm white, so you can adjust as you require.
7) As they contain many LED, they can have multiple LED with different frequency peaks - so the overall "quality" of light (correct term) is better - a continuous spectrum of light. Single LED spot lights have poor quality - they don't' show colours well in a kitchen.
8) They don't need a transformer and have minimal voltage control electronics as they use a long string of LED to make up the main voltage drop across each LED. It is the control electronics that fail , LED last a very long time unless they are overdriven, so they tend to be very reliable.
Just don't fit downlighter in a kitchen (or anywhere), just fit flat panels, you will never go back to downlighters.
You missed the most important tip, Jordan! How to stop getting your finger mashed by the 🤬🤬 spring 🤬🤬, like what happened to you at the start 😁😁😂😂 Thanks for all the other tips though, just what I needed before I start swapping out all my old downlights.
You might use black all purpose gloves. The type that leave marks all around the light.
this springed cliff has also srticked my fingers twice
Instead of using the Wago, Click connectors are much better and can even get 4 pole for switched lives and permanent lives, less bulky and makes it easier to remove the light fitting and replace when when lights are live👍🏽
I'm a sparky from Aus, I dont know why you guys dont fit off like a plug top (413's is what we call it) and get lights that plug straight in, instead of hardwiring straight into the lights transformer. This way the owners themselves can change over downlights do without needing to touch any of wiring connections.
We actually have something like that - click flow connectors rated at 20a.
They aren't mandated though, and that's a shame.
We really should have a standardised plug and socket affair for household light fittings. MEM brought out something along those lines over 10 years ago but it didn't catch on.
Covering the downlights with insulation so that they overheat seems to be the common one I know of.
So I found out the expensive way that downlights use crap "electronic transformers" to produce the 12VAC. They have a minimum load. Luckily the IKEA LED bulbs didn't care. However when I changed them to OSRAM smart bulbs they didn't work. Transformer was only producing 4V. My spark took one look at them and said, "Kitchen fitter." and then told me to rip them out and put a 240VAC conversion on them, keeping the existing fittings. The earth was left disconnected (cut back) previously. 12VAC lights, I suppose you could try and agrue the earth for the metal ringed light fittings where optional, but at least now they have the earth connected all the way through to the fitting.
Cost me the spark costs £80 + I can't return the 12V OSRAMS (£56) + 5 new Phillips Hue bulbs, £70
£150 over budget!
The only thing I skimped on, that bugs me slightly are "fire safe" enclosures for them. I left the 1990s un covered fittings in there. With one of these downlights being directly above the cooker... I might get the spark to swap them soon too. When pulling the bulb out of that one, the moment it was out there was a right gale of a draught flowing. I can only think how bad that will be if a fire on the cooker melted the bulb out of the holder and that draught just pulled the fire up into the floor space. A managable kitchen fire becomes the loss of the house.
The springs seem too strong - they either damage your fingers or the ceiling.
Downlights seem to be the future nowadays
Often the back of the down lights are too close to something in the ceiling, insulation for example, which can cause them to overheat.
There was me thinking you were gonna show me how to not get my fingers snapped by the springs!
Also use gloves to not leave dark fingerprints in the white surfaces. Some electricians don't wash their hands to often. Here in Norway we don't run cables with earthwire for class 2 downlights, in that way we don't need to worry about space for the earthconnector. Cable with 2 wires is cheaper than 3 wires.
I think in the uk, even if no earth is required at the light fitting, the cable feeding it should still be mechanically protected by an earth.
You could use no earth 2core cable if you can guarantee that class 2 lights will be used for eternity. (Some manufacturers use it on their downlights). But since you can't guarantee those lights won't be swapped for lights with metal parts (not class 2) you have to provide a CPC .
P.s. the CPC doesn't provide mechanical protection for the live or neutral. SWA does that job.
But then the homeowner changes the lights to metal ones and they have no earth. No matter how good a job you do the homeowner can always find a way to mess it up. 😁
Number one problem with majority of DIY'ers, and even knowledgeable folk in their respective industries or fields, is simply not bothering to read and understand the instructions. It is shockingly poor.
Absolutely right. Every electrical accessories instructions say Consult Qualified Electrician.
People think that means " go on, you can do it"
If its going over a bath or shower enclosure IP65 as a minimum
When removing the llight use some cardboard to stop the other side of the light from making a dent in the plasterboard.
Wow😂
While the WAGO terminals are supposed to be enclosed in a suitable box, is it really necessary for the Earth core? Especially as we have Earth bonding clamps , which are not enclosed, on copper pipes, which are open to touch.
Keep your hands clean the intire time and don't touch the ceiling. Cut the hole a little on the small side and sand it to the exact size for lights with a thin lip.
Hi Jordan
Just want to pick you up on IP rating. IP stands for international protection,not ingress protection.
Gary
Thats new to me, most would know it as Ingress protection
H’mm - both terminology’s are correct but I think most will know it as “Ingress Protection”. The first digit covers ingress by foreign body’s ( objects, hands, fingers) all the way up to particulate (dust), while the second digit covers resistance to moisture ingress from water droplets (condensation) to full submersion.
Depends what you are talking about LOL
@@artisanelectrics It is actually in BS7671 now under definitions as International protection code.
I thought the same as you, ingress protection, like it always has been as far as I knew
6:00 Time is money. 50 years ago we had the time, now we want the money.
No sparky is going to do a 10/10 job when 4/10 is good enough. Charge the customer, do the work, get out, make maximum $s per hour.
I am sure there are always some red faces with those watching these videos. I have never installed any downlights, yet - (why is it so hard to get electricians to respond to enquiries?),but I suspect some of the standard lights I put up more than 30 years ago hide a few horrors by current standards.
You need the cpc to protect the cable?? 😂
That may have been a slip of the tongue . Jordan seems a knowledgeable guy. He knows it's there to protect us, and to do that means it's usually connected to metalwork.
Earth sleeving? 😂 For what
Earth sleeving manufacturers …… oh, and to comply with regulations for the case where a fault occurs that an RCD/RCBO hasn’t cleared within 300mS and you now have a bare potentially live conductor. 😉
It is a bit bonkers that sleeving is a requirement for such a short CPC.
I guess the IET take a blanket approach to sleeving. As in: always.
Love the video, but not all diy’ers make the worst mistakes😡 Having had a £8k professional bathroom installation, including down lights fitted and certified by a qualified electrician only to find six sets of cables randomly poking up between the ceiling joists in the loft joined together with wire twist connectors! No junction box, no protection of cables; but an extra £80 charged for the electrical certificate!🤬 Not all professionals work to your standards. Unfortunately the local kitchen installation company also committed a string of potentially dangerous electrical work, and again another £80 certificate issued! So correct me if I’m wrong; but basically the certificates electricians issue are not worth the paper they are written on! I admire your attention to detail and would feel perfectly reassured if you were working on my electrical system; but although I’m just a retired truck driver I can still read an instruction manual, follow basic instructions, and know the work I do is way more professional than some of the people who are supposed to be qualified professionals rather than “bodge it and scarper” cowboys! Keep up the good work, and may your company excel in its excellence👍
All downlights should come with a removable GU10 LED
dont think the wago box/junction box is sensible, especially when there are whole heaps to do. Time and materials cost goes up just to install/replace simple downlights, ideally all transformer should come with earth terminal.
oh, what it must be like to be perfect.....
Until they change where the money goes from Part P deviations(penalties), nothing will happen.
I don't know about your standard of millimeters in the UK, but that's nowhere near 20 mm...
jordan projeck raja ampat...?
Thought you moved abroad?
Hi Jordan keep it up you are doing a great job and having fun making some brilliant videos superstar Ali Walsall west midlands england junction 10 m6 Walsall churckery
Only £200 a light!
JCCs? They’re about a tenner?
I make one statement about wiring and he blocked me
You arent blocked LOL
Wago box's 😂😂😂 what the hells vargo??? 4.5 out of 10 for pronunciation 😉
Wago is a German company, he us just using the correct German pronunciation.
If you always have put a sleeve on the earth then why does this "dumb" cable exist in the first place?
Gotta say I don't understand why anyone has downlights fitted in a home. They produce a horrible light and even if installed well, the first time someone tests/ repairs/ replaces one you'll need to re-decorate the ceiling.
Here in Switzerland they love to have only downlights and black tiles in all rooms in rented accomodation. Bloody terrible. There should always be a good mix of direct and indirect lighting. Downlights are great for example in 25 degree variant for the island in the kitchen.
Absolutely. I have no DLs in my house. I once saw a kitchen diner with 16 downlights at 50w each! There's Task lighting, then there's Mood lighting. People get confused which goes where!!
Wiring up like the first example or cutting the earths short means someone doesn't know the basics and shouldn't be anywhere near the wiring. Also a big mistake is fitting anything other than mains voltage GU10 LEDs. Whilst those 12V or LED driver units are usually more reliable than the tiny driver circuit inside the GU10 LED lamp, when they do inevitably fail it is very unlikely that a matching unit is still available.
If you run a gu10 with 2w chip running at 3.5w it won’t last dont but overrun bulbs it’s pretty simple. As for drivers if you can’t find one to you need to put the wickes book down n look somewhere else you can get anything to match anything
@@stephenfanthorpe2708 I have replaced several LED drivers recently, but many people don't and often the whole fitting gets replaced.
For the home owner instead of replacing a lamp it involves an electrician visit.
Everyone should be moving away from GU10 lamps. They are bad for the environment and in comparison to COB fittings their lifetimes are terrible. GU10s usually offer in the region of 15-30,000 hours but lumen depreciation and colour shift happen in much shorter times than with a dedicated COB LED fitting. You will pay more of course for a quality fitting but for chip lifelines of up to 426,000hrs with very long periods before lumen output drops and colour shifts the performance is much better. Pretty much almost those GU10s will end up in landfill whereas a dedicate COB fitting with an LED engine that can be changed at the end of its life means you can swap it over and keep the bezel and you have fittings then with over 20 years service life. Anyone serious about offering a sustainably circular product to their customers should be avoiding GU10s these days.
@@paulfenton734 sorry but I’m lost here m8, what replaceable cob’s are you talking about? All the cob lighting fixtures you can buy are sealed non replaceable units
@@stephenfanthorpe2708 I work architectural lighting and we are one of a few that supply Down lights where you can remove the LED engine with its heat sink from the bezel without any specialist tools. Within the 5 year warranty on the fitting and driver, in the unlikely event you have a failure in that time we send out a replacement engine which can be screwed on in its place. This means that you don’t have to put the whole fitting in the bin. We take back the old engine in a prepaid package, remove the LED chip and repopulate the board and it goes out on a new fitting with a full warranty. After the 5 years we provide a further 15 years where will will provide a replacement engine at a fair price. It just stops all the waste going to landfill and means that you can look at fittings having a 20 year service life. It’s time to stop skipping everything. There are many standards that are in place in the lighting industry at the moment. One that focussed on circular lifetimes is TM66. This is where luminaires are scored on their circular credentials.
My gosh this over the top and unrealistic.
If the electric regs said you have to bounce up and down on one leg whilst wiring this guy would tell you it's a great idea.
Unrealistic? It separates the food sparks from the bad. Obviously you don't take pride, or know what you are talking about
mouse trap...
Sorry but when I as a DIYer replace 20 downlights in my home I made sure the copper as hidden. Whether I used WAGO connectors or not earth wires were sleeved and ensuring they were in WAGI junction boxes that was closed with zip ties in a high contrast colour.
I know this video is for those that don't know how to wire a plug but your videos are becoming increasing insulting rather than educational/
IP stands for international protection.
Ingress protection
@@paulfenton734check BS7671 😎
Unfortunately "IP" is an overloaded abbreviation, e.g. it also stands for "intellectual protection", but in the conext of its use here, as in "IPXX", it is "ingress protection" as defined in International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) standard 60529.
IP actually is International Protection
I think you are wrong. It stands for Ingress Protection
Correct 18th amendment 2
@@pclayto3nope
I don't see why you need an earth wire at all for downlights?
In some countries they don't even have an earth wire.
You don’t half time but just telling a spark to do otherwise is like eating bricks , it’s actually increasing the risk when not required if you get a l/e fault
@@stephenfanthorpe2708 Yes, I used to have an electric guitar, the earth wire inside the plug for the amplifier came loose and made connection with the live wire inside the plug. I was holding the neck of the guitar, grabbed hold of a radiator and got a massive electric shock across my chest. So the earth wire can in fact be dangerous.
@@caparn100 ouch you became the earth spike for that moment, I see as ceilings are on average say 2m at a minimum you’re not gonna touch a live down light for long enough to harm it’s basic maths humans don’t float
@@caparn100 Sue the electrician who is responsible for the electrical installations in your home and maybe the guitar manufacturer as well. Blaming the protective earth wire for that is like blaming the car door when your child get his finger smashed in the car door 😅.
Also you need that earth wire because not all the lights in your home are downlights, and your kid might prefer a different kind lights in the future which might require an earth connection.
The down light may not require a earth, however the integrity of earth within the cable MUST be maintained in case of a fault on the cable, such as rodent damage or damage as a result of future work carried out on the property. Plus how do you do your testing on that circuit without a earth, ie earth loop test. Most important to verify your disconnection times 8:07
Next week: how to suck eggs….
Ah man you ruined the surprise 😂
@@artisanelectrics I sincerely doubt it, one thing you are ,is predictable
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