Why I Left Mormonism
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Today we talk about the reasons (behind the reason) for my exit from the Mormon church and how that could apply to other political ideology.
Please share if you found this helpful and reach out if you wanna talk. theubermormon@gmail.com
#exmormon #mormonism
This guy is all over the page. He loves to blame the LDS church for the stupidest stuff. I have a feeling he lives alone and is tortured by his idiotic thoughts. Poor guy!
If it helps support your world view to think of me this way, let me confirm it all. I am the most miserable person alive. My life is entirely devoid of joy and laughter. I live in a cupboard under the stairs in the home of my Aunt and Uncle who hate me. My parents were murdered by the most powerful wizard the world has ever seen. Boy has my whole life fallen apart since leaving Mormonism. I can’t believe you could tell all of that by my 13 minute video.
@@ubermormon9611 I think of you as a clown and click baiter. Thanks for the verification.
@@DRT279 it’s a shame. At least you started with an open mind.
@@ubermormon9611 You’ll have a short TH-cam life. You seem like a downer and most ppl don’t like to be around downers. Especially downers that carelessly rant. 😛
@@DRT279 hmmm maybe you should look in the mirror. You’re definitely not uplifting either. SMH.
I stopped attending 40+ years ago because it was not a safe space for me as a closeted gay man. I still attended BYU, but was inactive. In those days they didn’t keep track if you went to church.
Sadly, I still believed for the next 30 years with basic belief in God and the Mormon narrative of how the world works -preexistence - life as a test - life after death. I was inactive all that time and my family was very unhappy with me.
About 10 years ago I found Mormon Stories Podcast and started into therapy.
January 1, 2016, I formally resigned my membership and came out to family and work friends.
I boiled down my views of the Mormon Church to two problems.
1. Problem with Truth - BoM, Church History, Manipulation of Narrative etc.
2. Problem with Transparency - Finances, Rules and Rule Books, Media Statements vs Private In-Person Statements.
I have about 1/4 of my life left and am working on being what I believe to be a good person, surrounding myself with a Family and Community of Choice.
Thanks you for sharing. There’s an old quote by Nietzsche that goes something like, “you can only be free if you’ve been a slave”. People like you and me understand what it means to be taken captive mentally. Its a hard thing to give up that much life to a church. Thanks for your comment and please stick around. I’d love to bump into you in the comments.
They are pretty welcoming of closeted gay men now, since I was hit on by one when I attended a few sacrament meetings. That's why I didn't sign up - because of the obviously closeted men. So maybe you should go back?
I am glad you have chosen to live authentically. I do not believe the LDS church will be safe for LGBT individuals until the church apologizes for its many wrongs towards the community and then actually changes its policies. (Which will likely never happen.)
@cindybin2001 Holy guacamole. You've opened up a can of worms.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_LGBT_history#:~:text=In%202011%20BYU%20admitted%20to,Wilkinson%20Student%20Center%20since%201964).
BYU used electroshock therapy on students for years. From the 1950's to the 1990's. It was well documented.
Some of the participants were interviewed. They suffered from PTSD afterwards. I know one of them. A couple committed suicide by jumping to their deaths.
@cindybin2001 The 2015 policy which was said to come by revelation was repealed in 2019. This policy which included the denial of baptisms for children of gay couples led to a spike in suicides. (I believe a total of 35.) Well documented. Pride centers also had huge numbers of calls for help.
The LDS church fought against gay marriage---which led to the suicide of Stuart Matis.
The LDS church taught it was a choice.
The LDS church taught it was caused by masturbation.
The LDS church taught it was curable.
The LDS church taught that marrying someone of the opposite sex would cure the individual.
Your number 2 is spot on! Never thought of it that way. I left 23 yrs ago but still have family deeply entrenched. Seeing videos like this gives me hope so thank you! 🙏🏻🦋🙏🏻
@cindybin2001 I was raised very fundamentalist church of christ and mormonism seems very close to that in a lot of ways. At least in my denomination, I had no free will. I could never question anything or risk severe reprisal. Based on what I hear from ex-mormons, it seems it's pretty close to that especially as people are basically cut off if they leave. For shame.
@cindybin2001
Absolutely, but it doesn't need or have to be through a Mormon church.
The straw that broke the camels back for me was learning from documented proof in the churches library, that Joseph Smith wanted alcohol in jail to lift their spirits and that he was armed with a pistol and shot at men and that as he was about to die he made the Masonic sign for distress, which calls on Lucifer. Go and research for yourself, then tell me I'm a liar. When you realise you are following a whoremaster, conman who was prepared to kill just before dying, you kinda question your life and Jesus' warning of false doctrine and false prophets. Your life will revolve round the church I know, but run as fast as you can. You know the truth now, Jesus, when you meet won't be happy if you continue worshipping a false idol.
God be with you.
Deeply entrenched??? That's a stupid way to describe those that believe. I bet in the last 23 years you haven't replace your beliefs with anything. I love how the exmo community constantly needs reassurance that they made the right decision.
@@DRT279 aww the local child troll I hope. I think there are some amazing Mormons. My neighbors are Mormons and I love them. If the comments I have seen you post on here are reflective at all of your Mormon belief that is a damn shame. You talk nothing like my lovely Mormon neighbors and clearly do absolutely nothing for the image of your church. At best you come across as an angry teenage internet troll.
@@tripleraze321 Calling someone’s stupid ideas stupid is right inline with how ppl should react. When ppl lie, whine and play a victim so they can get people like you to feel sorry for them and they make money off you, you should be the one offended by them. Don't be confuse by this guy who is trying to pull at your heart strings to make a buck.
Best reason to leave? Because it's a proven fraud.
That's super BRAVE! Thank you so much for share your experience! This videos can open eyes to a lot of people! FREE INFORMATION, FREE BEHAVIORS, FREEDOM!
I hope you enjoyed it! Thanks for the nice comment!
This isn't brave. He would never be brave enough to say this in a testimony meeting. He's not doing anything new, he has a click bait title and nonsense that doubters have been using since the Old Testament.
@@DRT279 omg! relax yourself bro, Drink a cup of tea can help you! OH SORRY YOU CAN'T!
@@veronicahopelop Sorry I’m right.
I resonated with your 3 rules. In my past, a Stake president told me and my wife at the time that we should only read "church authorized material". Joseph Smith was a prolific reader. The comment the stake president made was totally out of line. I left Mormonism a few years back and have had far more spiritual experiences that the entire time I was in Mormonism. Thank you for this video.
Leslie - If you check the list of what was called "anti-mormon material" 20 years ago the majority of that information is now on the church website as gospel truth. And then the gaslighting occurs because people were expected to know these truths 20 years ago when leaders told members they were anti-mormon literature and not to read them.
I was surfing the web and came across your channel, and of those who have left the LDS church, yours was well put and I respect your decision. By that I mean, growing up, my parents encouraged me to have a mind of my own. What does it say in Moroni 10 :4? Read/ ponder/ pray. I asked my parents "what does that mean?" They said "question everything." I looked at them confused. They then told me that if I wanted to know if something were correct, I would have to find out for myself. They then taught me to follow those three steps...1st read or hear it. 2nd think about it. and 3rd Pray about it and then follow your gut. So many times I would go to them with a question and they would ask me, " if I had followed those steps?" So at a VERY young age, my parents gave me the tools to gain the knowledge for myself and then encouraged me to seek the truth. So, like you, my journey has taken me to where I am today. I don't follow "blindly" and I am still "questioning everything" that I hear from my leaders. Because of what I was taught at a very young age.
Thank you for the polite comment. We were definitely raised different ways. Maybe I had more experiences like yours I never would have left.
The holy spirit guides every thought you have it never misleads a surrendered heart.
Make it clear..did u leave the lds chur ch?
@@randyrequilme8814 my records were taken out July 4 of 2020. I LEFT
You may never read this but I thank you for taking the time to get on here and speak your personal experience. My father asked me why I have concerns with our church. I told him to reflect on a court case for an individual being tried for crimes. “As the jury listens, what does it take to eliminate the certainty of the individuals crimes?” I asked. My father answered “the defense lawyer has to show reasonable doubt.” I then told my dad that he now knows why I have concerns. I reminded him that the lawyer doesn’t even have to prove the individuals innocence. All he has to do is prove there is reasonable doubt. I told him if the jury has any integrity whatsoever they can not convict the individual with certainty in the presence of reasonable doubt. I too have reasonable doubt, and I too have integrity.
Its interesting how the Mormon church was born in doubt. Joseph doubted the certainty of the doctrines being taught. He questioned, and that is really one of the most inspirational aspects of the Mormon story, the courage to doubt and ask questions with a desire to better understand. It’s the same courage and faith Mormon missionaries expect of converts, to doubt their own world views and beliefs, so that they can become Mormon. This is applauded as faith, a variation not applauded once you are a member. A type of faith expected of others that members are often unwilling to emulate themselves. I told my dad I have all sorts of questions, I have all sorts of healthy doubts that come from integrity. And my religion calls this faithless, no matter how well meaning the question if it conflicts with the established model. Every meaningful change the Mormon church has experienced came from a leader doubting the certainty of themselves and past leaders. This allowed them to make a change, learn more than they thought they knew, or even remove past doctrines/policies. But if I am to apply the same method of learning I am told I am deceived by the devil, I am acting apostate. I told him that the church is one that was born out of doubt and calls Joseph’s doubt an act of faith, “belief in the absence of certainty.” Yet also teaches that faith is to remain certain, to be unwavering in conviction of certainty. We are expected to be certain of things that could only come by being uncertain. Two versions of faith that ironically can’t co-exist. I said if I can’t express my integrity, if I can’t ask questions, then what meaningful learning am I getting? This alone is a far more substantial doubt of the churches claim of certainty than the other reasonable doubts I have. So long as the church positions itself in certainty, integrity obligates me to reconcile my reasonable doubts if I am to also be so certain.
This was beautifully said. Thank you for being here.
I appreciate you focusing on this.
1. Study and think about whatever one needs in support of better understanding. No prohibited areas.
2. Speak and converse about whatever one wants to in exploration of the research.
3. Question whatever one wants to better arrive at what is real, not false.
Yes? This is a high crime and misdemeanor in the Mormon Mistake and other high demand "religions".
Imagine what the world would be like if every looked inward and did this.
This has to be talked about more. How to not leave a cult for another cult. I’ve seen this happen too many times.
Yea lol. Too funny seeing ex Mormons being like, I left the church! Now I'm Christian! It's like, oof 😅
Thanks for your video. As a believer, I agree with your three rules. Sometimes rules don’t always take us to the same places I guess. Good luck to you!
You're very clever and I do appreciate your definition of enlightenment.
Good job on not cowering to the Lds and having the courage to leave👍
Rob Terry, is the man who made the podcast episodes you mentioned, sharing all the problematic info and how he chooses to frame them in a faithful context. I actually really appreciate his efforts in sharing his perspectives and process.
The thing that I appreciated most was his willingness to admit that that he stays because he feels that the structure, framework and requirements required to live a worthy Mormon life, help him be better than he otherwise would.
I don’t believe that that’s true for many of us but I respect his willingness to admit it, and to do what helps him be the best version of himself.
The only drawback I can see to that is if someone were to feel that way and project it onto others, believing that they two aren’t capable of being wonderful, moral stellar people without religion.
Yes. I am always happy for people who discover more about themselves no matter what they discovery is. I don’t like it when they decide that is actually what is best for everyone else. “Describe, don’t Prescribe.”
So well thought-out and expressed. Finding ways to have discussions with people with opposing viewpoints, that should be talked about more. The world is full of groups with opponing opinions, and mostly they just shout at each other with things that will in no way affect the people on the opposing side. How much more progress could we make in the world if we all learned how to discuss this type of difficult topics "with the same language" with opposing groups?
That’s exactly what I was trying to do. Thank you for wording it so well.
Every mormon needs to read the CES letter. It will open your eyes.
Another source in video format is LDS discussions. It analyzes LDS truth claims topic by topic, from First Vision and Treasure Digging to the Book of Mormon translation process and so on.
Only if your mind is open though. So many read it with the conclusion the church is true. When i read it with an open mind, The Church was so obviously fake.
@cindybin2001fair's debunks are surface level and don't actually debunk anything.
@cindybin2001 It’s been debunked? What was one of the lies/misconceptions in the CES letter?
The CES letter is just a bunch of crowd, sourced arguments against the church by people who have never done the work and the research to find out what scholars have spent years studying and publishing for the world on these topics
Great video. You've eloquently articulated some solid principles that anyone can apply regardless of whether they have supernatural beliefs.
I feel like we go to 2 different churches. Holy moly your reasons are definitely justified
Thanks for being in the comments!
The way they describe heaven sounds so very worldly.
For me once the shelf broke, the entire god/religion shelf broke along with it. I was pretty happy with the result. No more yoke, no weight. Just basically a lot more freedom of thought and reduced anxiety (and MORE TIME GOOD GOD). Once I had figured religion was holding me back in so many ways, it made for a pretty easy clean break for me personally.
@cindybin2001 Lol
@cindybin2001
@cindybin2001why are you trying to bring people in who don't believe it's true. IF God exists, Joseph Smith isn't their mouthpiece.
@cindybin2001 How is this video anti-Mormon? He is merely explaining his reasons for why he left.
He wanted to control what he studied, what he thought and what he said. The LDS church is a high demand religion. The LDS church headquarters has a public relations team and lawyers to help control the narrative of what is said. Why is it that the LDS church didn't want Joseph Smith's treasure seeking to be discussed? Why is it that the LDS church didn't want to discuss translating the Book of Mormon with a seerstone in a hat? Why is it that the LDS church didn't want to talk about Joseph Smith's polygamy? Why he was arrested?
Because those things the LDS church denied happened really did happen. It fell outside the faith promoting narrative.
Joseph Smith proposed to a 12 year old girl. He married at least one 14 year old. He married women who were married to other men. He was a treasure hunter who took money from people to find buried treasure---of which he found none. Ever. He told stories about the history of the Native Americans long before the Book of Mormon came to be. And it was a commonly held belief that the Native Americans were descendants of the Jews of the middle east. (Do you know about the Mound Builder's myth? If not, you should read about it. It demonstrates a common idea about white supremacy on the frontier---)
These topics are now discussed and accepted by the LDS church. They're discussed in the Gospel Topics Essays. However, they don't fit narratives and history as taught by the church. So... a lot of people feel betrayed. The LDS church is not growing in large numbers. In fact, it is losing a huge amount of members.
@cindybin2001 It doesn't mean it is true either.
Great list. I find it kind of interesting that I believe all of those points (1-3) and are also part of why I left, yet held my belief in the Book of Mormon and God. My foundation of belief was not rooted in an organization. It was not dependent upon the leaders. I left the church and kept what I deemed appropriate between me and God. I actually think the Book of Mormon is one of the greatest writings to condemn the LDS church because they don't teach those doctrines. Those 1-3 points are actually rooted in the most foundational teachings of the Book of Mormon.
You have a very cool name.
Thank you for sharing your story!
"Ce qui se conçoit bien s’énonce clairement, et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisément" Nicolas Boileau 1674 a French poet. (The quotation you are thinking about at 3.14 minutes?)
THANK YOU
freedome of action, thought, and belief are gifts given to us by god. restrictions on those are simply attempts at human control. just remember that those freedomes also come with responsibility and that includes not to hurt others or push yours on them.
I like how you say that you wouldn't join any other organization that tries to limit your thoughts and access to information, so why then is it okay in the church. I was born and raised in the church and was active until about age forty, when I made a conscious decision to finally leave, so I had accepted a lot of bad behavior from the church because I'd been told by my parents that it was true. I would never join any organization that does similar things, yet I put up with these behaviors for so long in this church. It's mind boggling to me how much I suffered and years of my life and resources wasted.
Thank you for sharing.
Il glad you got out.
I think your reasons make a lot of sense. If we're looking at this solely from the BITE model of cults, there is a lot of manipulation when it comes to what people think, do, say, and study within the LDS church community. If we're told "Don't read such-and-such book! It is full of lies!" I often times want to study that book. The LDS church has only has one trained historian who worked as church historian. Most have been lawyers and such. Not trained historians. Leonard Arrington approached church history as a historian. And got the church into all kinds of hot water.
Had the church been honest and open about things from the beginning instead of manipulating history, they wouldn't have to tell members not to study various books and websites.
Thanks for the nice words. I thought about including the BITE model, but I’ve heard so many other creators go over it and so I thought I’d leave it alone. Good point about church historians. We need more people like you in the comments section:)
@@ubermormon9611 I haven't read much about the BITE model in the past but I know of it---and it makes sense.
I know a lot about church history and I am criticized regularly for sharing less flattering portions of church history. The LDS church has even agreed that these things are true---and have published it on the Gospel Topics Essays. But people still say I'm teaching lies. So ridiculous.
@@ubermormon9611 Thank you for the compliment about needing more people like me---I know far more about the church than most. Worked for the church for much of my adult life.
I’d love you chat sometime over email or a livestream. Reach out anytime.
If it’s been a while, go crack open 1984. It’s a fun read in light of all of this.
I’d love you chat sometime over email or a livestream. Reach out anytime.
If it’s been a while, go crack open 1984. It’s a fun read in light of all of this censorship/BITE model talk.
I like the way you think.
Please forgive me for going school teacher on you, but there is no such word as "anyways." It's "anyway." And it is "by accident," not "on accident." (On purpose, by accident.) You are, otherwise, very articulate and cogent. I hope you would want to know. I would hate for someone to discount what you say, because you have good stuff to share.
This is the first video of yours I have watched. Thumbs up for your self honesty and thinking processes to find greater clarity of what is important to you, which must be especially difficult after being a Mormon. I understand that your incisive work to discover your authenticity, and to live with the integrity of being true to who you are, after being in a control group is both commendable, and vital to you. I would just like to say that your system is about your experience, which is obviously 100% valid,, however politically correct terminology is about other people's experiences and values, which are no less valid than your own. Politically correct terminology is not about dictating speech, it's about being respectful and considerate of others. We can expect that many things will not make sense to us, because we have different life experiences. It is a common courtesy to listen to others' preferences for terminology, and respect them. This shouldn't be too difficult if you have the integrity to treat others with consideration and respect, too.
I have to agree. This video shows growth for him, but is highly problematic on a number of levels...for one, speaking as an authority on "people leaving cults" as if his one, singular experience is indicative of what others go through in any number of institutions. It isn't.
@@sallygreenfield6991 Yes, that was my perspective, too. I haven't been in a cult, but I know what it is to miss out on the 'mirroring' needed to develop a strong sense of self. Children being solipsistic is a natural stage of identity forming development. Some people who missed out on that development as children need to go through that phase as adults, before being able to be more receptive and understanding of others.
@cindybin2001 Yes, because , as a Mormon, you are taught what to believe, think, feel, value, and how to act. This means you have to disconnect from yourself in the process. You aren't able to explore your own inner, or outer world, and discover who you are, and what is meaningful to you personally.
@cindybin2001 I don't drink coffee, or alcohol, or smoke cigarettes, or take recreational drug, etc.. Some of my friends that aren't into any of those things, either. I am an atheist, and don't need a religion to make my life choices, or provide reasons for them, or to support my life choices. It makes no sense to me why you would want to join a religious group to support your life choices.
What I know about Mormons is that they have many similarities to JWs, and people experience the same post cult trauma on leaving.
When I was 17 years old I was friends with some lovely Mormons in my classes. I went to their home, one time, to watch one of the Mormon films. They had been raised Mormon. I hadn't, and I was incredulous that highly intelligent people could believe sci-fi as fact, and that was foundational to their religious beliefs. Beliefs that obviously dominated every aspect of their lives.
@cindybin2001 I guess you aren't aware of all the troubles behind the Osmond's shiny bright smiles. You seem to have believed that the highly polished performance of professional public entertainers was real. As a child, I found the Osmonds deeply frightening. They seemed fake and buttoned in, like programmed robots. It was my version of a horror show. I like people to behave as fully human.
Each person believes they have the One Truth, religious or not, otherwise they wouldn't believe it. None of the religious people have any proof to back up their bold claim. Just as with the newer religions, such as JWs and Scientology,, the origins of the Mormon faith is both a huge red flag as obviously a contrived fraud, and deeply disturbing. It is obviously your prerogative to believe it, but it is difficult for me to 'unknow' that it ticks the boxes of a definition of a cult, and that is not positive.
Love rule #1. It's what got me in trouble with Mormonism
I love your simple 3 rules. So true, and I'm still a Bible Christian, but it's not controlling as it's only between God's love, Jesus' salvation, and the Holy Spirit's giftings and empowering of me to live like Jesus.
It is more for me what Heavenly Father wants me to say, read, or think I care about. Whether I am a member of the church is if it is the same.
Good for you. Not easy to leave something like that.
I left the church 30 years ago when I was maybe 22 or so. I'm gay and it was pretty brutal as I had just been through one of those so-called 'reparative therapy' programs the church ran. When i was in the process of trying to leave I went through a lot of very similar things that you describe, mental conditioning we LDS raised folks struggle with. At one point, I was reading A LOT of non-LDS spiritual material I had gotten at various new age type book stores, and mentioned some of it to my dad (who by the way was a CES area director). He told me to compare everything I read to the church sanctioned material and only to believe those 'core doctrine' materials.
Wow. I am sorry that all happened to you. I hope you have come out the other side stronger and happier.
Robert Turners experience was very much my experience, question everything, but learn about it and pray. That is the official teaching on the church. The way people filter information is very different. My wife, for example will completely hear things differently than what I just said. I think you may be experience the same thing. It would be good to have had member friends that communicate the way you understand. . Neither good nor bad just people filter things differently. That's all. Thanks for the be your best self comment
God, you know how hard it is to adapt to normal society after leaving the church? Jesus, relationships aren't just straight forward anymore. So many things I have to learn. I'm thankful to have friends.
Do you know of the BITE model for cults? All your rules fall into one or several of the categories (B: behaviour control, I: information control, T: thought control, E: emotional control). This just showcases how those categories are linked. I saw two people on YT go through the whole model for LDS and Jehova's Witnesses. It was pretty interesting and enlightening about why people who leave tend to feel so strongly but also why shunning happens.
I'm so glad I grew up with the freedom to just not believe in religion in the first place even if I did grow up in a Christian environment. Around age 9 I started wondering about things and at age 10 I realised how messed up the bible is and how weird it is we're supposed to believe these stories happened. Stories about war and slavery I didn't agree with were portrayed as something good by the authors and a moral guide to follow. In the end I came to the conclusion I never believed but I really, really tried because I think you can't really believe in something if you don't understand what you're believing in.
And I was also encouraged to question science. Which was a very valuable thing to learn. Nothing is known with 100% certainty, there's always a chance the findings were coincidental no matter how small. Same for there being many correlations that are no causations. Or the idea that the embryological argument is a strong argument for evolution. It was still taught to me in school even though I heard it was taken out of a quite a few textbooks a couple of years later. And we had old textbooks (I think they were 10 years old by then) as it was. Plus the whole point of science is to be questioned. There's a reason the questions have to be falsifiable.
Hahaha this is also the blue print for narcissistic nests (AKA N-families).
@cindybin2001tries to debunk the bite model by advocating information control.
@cindybin2001 I was born and raised in the Mormon church and I know more about race and the church than you on account of having lived it.
Truth has an anti Mormon bias. The church admits all of these "anti Mormon lies" in the gospel topics essays.
Joseph smith was an obvious fraud.
@cindybin2001 you're so funny. I get it. If you think the church tells you the truth when it's easily provable that they lied, you're falling victim to information control
I find the BITE model of cults has a checklist that almost every religion of Christian church falls into. I guess there are extremes for cult criteria like XVIM, Branch Davidians, or Moonies.
"I think I have learned the Gospel so as to know, that in and of myself I am nothing."
(Brigham Young)
4:44 This is what "A Mathematician's Lament" is all about, but in terms of maths. Utterly recommended book.
Added it to my list:) thanks for the recommendation.
I like where this channel is going! TH-cam just fed it to me, love it. I like your tattoo too! Got my first last week..... Ahhhh! Lol
I’m happy for you and I hope it’s an incredible tattoo! Please pop into my comments anytime!
This popped up on my YT scroll too! Now subscribed!🎉
You are all too nice.
@cindybin2001 I’m gonna get one tattoo per comment you make. So if you comment again, it’s your own fault that I’m giving off a bad impression. 😈😈😈
@cindybin2001 Who are you and why do you keep assuming anyone here has read anything you’ve written over the last 20 years online? And even if they had, why would you be a trusted authority on the subject of tattoos and their acceptance in the modern cultural zeitgeist? Even more, why does it bother you so dearly what others opine on their own social channels? Your assumptions here are very unthoughtful.
There is no perfect religion in the world, it depends on how you understand and live your faith. For those who can't accept the Book of Mormon, read the bible, pray and ask sincerely for you to get your deserved asnwers.
And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.
The mark of a cult, or of a totalitarian structure for that matter os that those inside the bubble are not allowed to do their own thinking nor voice their doubt and criticism.
@cindybin2001 you're encouraged to do your own thinking so long as you reach the approved conclusions
Cindy I’m happy that you haven’t felt censored or like you can’t have your own thoughts in your many years as a Mormon because some of us have. We are all bonding over a shared experience.
Please don’t tell us that the church isn’t like that because you didn’t experience it that way. Please do your best see where we are coming from before telling us that we are seeing it all wrong.
Yes, Please go to FAIR and then THINK about their logic (or lack thereof).
Most religions are not too big on criticism by its members or rational thinking.
In my profession, there are rules (with consequences) about what I'm allowed to say and behave outside work in public.
Are there lines you wouldn’t be be willing to cross because of your own moral compass?
Edit: granmer
Dr Sir. Just Subbed..I appreciate your approach...Thanks for sharing!
I think God exists. There’s no one *true* religion that gGod favors. I pray to God and Jesus but don’t go to any church or subscribe to any religion. I would like to see you on Cults to Conscience, Shelise Ann Sola's channel. She's an e if we didn’t, ex mo too and I think it would be a great interview.
I’d love to chat with her thanks for the recommendation!
@cindybin2001 which first vision account are you referring to?. The one written by Joseph Smith himself said he only saw one personage.
There’s at least 9 different versions of the first vision. The very first one written by Joseph wasn’t documented until 12 years after the vision. Hard to say which account is accurate.
@cindybin2001 and they cover up child sex abuse.
@cindybin2001 fair Mormon is intellectually dishonest.
@cindybin2001 also, the gospel topics essays are produced by the church but you label them anti Mormon.
2:52 Brevity is the soul of wit.
Ce que l'on conçoit bien s’énonce clairement,
Et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisément
Nicolas Boileau
1702
Whatever is well conceived is clearly said, And the words to say it flow with ease.
When I was around 8 years old, I already knew that Mormonism was utterly bs. My parents and the other members were so dumb it was impossible for me to convince them.
“Shorter the better” proceeds to ramble lol ❤
This will be my downfall
a quick Google search of cult says "a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing." and "a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object." Every Christian church meets weekly in remeberance of Jesus Resurrection. Every Christian church gathers to partake of the communion in memory of Jesus Body and Blood. So yes, the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints is a cult like every Christian church.
You might have beat me to this but look into the BITE model. I ignored covering it in their video but it is a helpful resource. Jon Streeter has done a lot of work on it. With his website isitculty.com
@@ubermormon9611 I'll read it, but no matter how you candy coat a turd it's still a turd. Every Christian denomination fits the definitions I mentioned above.
This is what the difference between the US members especially in Utah and those that live outside the states. I’m from Asia and all my life it’s been very rough and difficult but truly the gospel of Jesus Christ has taught me so many things in life and taught me principles that blessed me, my family and those around me. I or us focus more on the gospel of what it truly does to individuals and families. The church has never been always easy but the doctrine and principles is amazing. I have witnessed many people in my country how the church or gospel have help them in so many ways. Don’t blame everything to the church or leaders , they are not perfect and I’m not saying that all their mistakes are justified. Everything will make sense the next life . I am a believer and even though I’m not that super active in the church, I treasure the moments and still practice the principles they taught me. ( remember Lehi’s dream, many people partook of the fruit but then they decided to join the large and spacious building.)
I can only tell you what I know about the two places I have really spent time in the church; Utah and Peru. It was my impression the the things the church taught in both locations were essentially identical( down to what lesson was being taught that week).
The culture of both places were very different. Being Mormon in Utah is just a different experience and it didn’t go well for me. I think the church in Peru had problems too, just different problems. You’ll notice my list of reasons aren’t doctrinal, they are cultural. Where do you currently live? If the church is working for you where you are you should stay in it!
The answers are inside you.
Cults and religion are on the same spectrum; they only vary in terms of intensity. Apply the same critical thinking to all religion and you will soon abandon the idea altogether.
I think that is well said.
Nihilism isn't necessarily BAD :)
I am happy in my existential nihilism. It helps me be my best self
I feel like a little Nihilism can be freeing. What do you like about it?
@@ubermormon9611 it helps me live for now and "this lifetime" rather than a future lifetime that will not eventuate.
I was born a Roman Catholic and was very active for 36 years. I’m now a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ and making other disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ. Most of my family and friends are still Roman Catholic. For freedom Christ has set us free. I’ve subscribed to your TH-cam channel. 95% of Catholics are not really believers but church Goers
The holy spirit will clarify any question you might have.
I have often wondered ex-mormons go when they leave the LDS church. Do they go to another church or religion? Those are often high demand religions as well. Do they reject all religion and become atheists?
It’s a little of everything Scott. I know that’s not a cool answer but that’s the best I’ve got:)
It’s a tough call if you still believe in Jesus Christ…I just try to have conversations about Christ as much as possible, can’t really trust another organization. I’m also saddened by those that become atheists.
I listened to that podcast too. It didn’t help me remain faithful
Well I tried listening to you for about 5 minutes and it was extremely hard to find anything you said interesting enough to make me keep going.
thanks for sharing your personal experience. hope after this life you will no regret anything. but you are welcome anytime.
I don’t think I will have the ability to regret things after this life. Obviously no one can know for sure, but it doesn’t seem likely to me.
@@ubermormon9611 thanks for responding so fast. i do have one question is mind. if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not a true Church of Jesus Christ, which one is it? Because, sadly people are living the church but ending up having no religion at all or even worst not believing in Christ and God at all. will you please address my inquiry. thank man!
Cindy's copy-pasta missionary efforts/white nationalist evangelism is very entertaining.
Chain of events please… my same pattern
I love all my Ex-mos! ❤!
The level of atheism throughout the rest of the developed world refutes any argument that religion is somehow a moral necessity, Countries like Norway, Iceland, Australia, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark and the United Kingdom are among the least religious societies on Earth. According to the United Nations’ Human Development Report (2005) they are also the healthiest, as indicated by measures of life expectancy, adult literacy, per capita income, educational attainment, gender equality, homicide rate and infant mortality. Conversely, the 50 nations now ranked lowest in terms of human development are unwaveringly religious. Other analyses paint the same picture: The United States is unique among wealthy democracies in its level of religious literalism and opposition to evolutionary theory; it is also uniquely beleaguered by high rates of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy, STD infection and infant mortality. The same comparison holds true within the United States itself: Southern and Midwestern states, characterized by the highest levels of religious superstition and hostility to evolutionary theory, are especially plagued by the above indicators of societal dysfunction, while the comparatively secular states of the Northeast conform to European norms. Of course, correlational data of this sort do not resolve questions of causality--belief in God may lead to societal dysfunction; societal dysfunction may foster a belief in God; each factor may enable the other; or both may spring from some deeper source of mischief. Leaving aside the issue of cause and effect, these facts prove that atheism is perfectly compatible with the basic aspirations of a civil society; they also prove, conclusively, that religious faith does nothing to ensure a society’s health.
Rules start at 3:30
Thank you
Why is it that when someone gets upset or disaffected with something they do not just walk away but feel it necessary to burn the entire system down? This is an attitude I do not understand and please do not tell me it is to help other people. Helping people implies something positive and I cannot see anything positive in this kind of diatribe.
I’m actually not tearing anything down here. I’m just saying what I experienced. There are those who can see any positives to the church existing. I’m in between those two opinions.
As a convert I never understood the holding to a literal understanding of the Church’s origin and the Book of Mormon as actually describing an ancient civilisation. I think I have more of an emotional testimony of the Church and the BOM. I am fairly certain that the white washed version of history is just that but I still feel the spirit in this church and love the Gospel.
I genuinely hope that Mormonism helps you be the person you want to be. Just because it didn’t for me doesn’t mean it can’t for you!
@@ubermormon9611 awesome, man. I like your content and shall be following.
@@cinnamondan4984 you have no idea how much I appreciate people with your open mindedness and kindness.
@@ubermormon9611 ☺️
Jacob 2
2 Now, my [my fellow Latter-day Saints], according to the responsibility which I am under to God, to magnify mine office [as a watchman upon the tower] with soberness, and that I might rid my garments of your sins, I might declare unto you the word of God.
6 Yea, it grieveth my soul and causeth me to shrink with shame before the presence of my Maker, that I must testify unto you concerning the wickedness of your hearts.
7 And also it grieveth me that I must use so much boldness of speech concerning you, before your wives and your children, many of whose feelings are exceedingly tender and chaste and delicate before God, which thing is pleasing unto God;
**Isaiah 3**
13 The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the [Latter-day Saints]
14 The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people and the princes thereof; for [the Saints of God] have eaten up the vineyard and the spoil of the poor in your houses.
15 What mean ye? Ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor [humble followers of Christ] , saith the Lord God of Hosts.
Luke 16:
19 ¶ There was **a certain rich man** [priesrcrafter], which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day**:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus [humble follower of Christ], which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the [priesrcrafter’s] table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that [the humble follower of Christ] died, and was carried by the angels [Church of the Firstborn] into Abraham’s bosom: the [priesrcrafter] also died, and was buried;
23 And **in hell he [the priesrcrafter] lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom**.
24 And he cried and said, **Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.**
25 But Abraham said, **Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receiveth thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.**
26 And beside all this, between [the Church of the Firstborn] and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then [the priesrcrafter] said, **I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:**
28 **For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.**
Then this exchange will play out in our day. If we won't hear the prophets and repent! Why then, would we hear the word from the resurrected being.
29 Abraham saith unto him [Lds priesrcrafter], **They have [Joseph] and the prophets; let [the Latter-day Saints] hear them.**
30 And he [LDS,priestcrafterer] said, **Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.**
31 And he said unto him, **If they hear not [Joseph Smith] and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though [Joseph Smith] rose from the dead.**
“If only the [LDS, practitioner of priestcraft,] could have seen beyond the grave, he might have started praying sooner; but only in hell [will] he become a praying man.”
(Hugh W. Pinnock - Beginning Again 1982)
“Many [priesrcrafter] will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (Matt. 7:22)
“And then will I[the Lord] profess unto them [Latter-day Saints priestcrafters], I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
This Man & his video's is obvious, his all excuses, why he left the CHURCH. He rebell, refused to repent from whatever commandments he disobeyed.
I want to watch these videos so bad but the constant tongue clicking triggers my misphonia so bad
I am sorry. I use different mics now and have the issue
I mean, I haven’t actually filmed anything this year but the last few videos I made had better audio and it will be better moving forward.
Bro no books are "off limit" on my mission we read the qur'an just to understand where Islam followers were coming from, its all a matter of perception some people may not reccomend you do so but there is no rule no doctrine no direct words coming for you to say do not say this or do not read this or do not question this, there was one book written by a prophet by an lds prophet that we were recommended to read because many missionarys chose to go home because of the principles it taught for holiness that they did not think they had achieved enough to be on a mission for which was not true, however, the book would be a great undertaking after they're missions. In my seminary and youth times we discussed the mount meadow massacre, blacks and the priesthood and polygamy and when one person asked a difficult question we would all take it home and find an answer and study to further understand it. From experience many exmormons are leaving and promoting they're leave on aspects of things they experienced in the church in utah and was more to do with cultural idioms rather then the official church doctrine r the savior himself. These idioms can be cultural misconceptions of the church and ideas and words that come from toxic ideals made by a small collectives are judgemental members of the church.
Just to add the holy ghost is not the voice in your head saying "what if they're was no god" that's literally your own thoughts that may of been influence by the deciver or just your own mind buddy, your making out that every latter day saint is conditioned to think "sorry father I didn't mean to think that" no they are not! Members of the church drink, have set outside of marriage and think many evil and beautifull things like any other person and the church did not teach them to drink, smoke or think in any kind of way that would be your upbringing or personal experience but don't push it onto other people, could call yourself a singular cult for training to brain wash your viewers, my friend.
those are my rules also
You will still have to meet God someday, and that day seems to appear that it is going to be real soon because of the way the world is right now. You will be judged by God Himself on what you chose to do with His Son Jesus.
I came to write basically the same thing the person below says. I finally gave up on the video.
You mentioned that it's important to be concise when you're writing a paper to get to the point. What is odd is that you go on and on and babble and babble and babble when you could concisely State your thoughts and half the time.
It took him only 13 minutes. Visit John Dehlin 's 14 hour interview with the late Dr. Robert Ritner on the Book of Abraham, and you get a feel for what a long video looks like.
@@charlesmendeley9823 you are totally right. 13 min is why I listened to this. Who has time for dehlin?
Fair criticism
I agree. This video is made by a great guy. Definitely. And I know it sounds mean, but these exmo people go real slow. I am happy they are finally seeing the light but these epiphanies he/they are having are shockingly simpleminded. Stuff we, in the real world, learned in kindergarten...I used to live near a Mormon community in Utah. I interacted with a world of Mormons.They are generally, incredibly superior, dismissive and condescending. Don’t get it twisted, I want to be supportive of all the exmo people out there. But their vids. need to be a little shorter, faster and not so convoluted.
I am a member but did leave the church for many years but came back and am so glad I did. Who is enforcing these rule? What things can't you say? Were you mistreated by all members? What is your mission now? When I came back it was like I was home again. I was welcomed and loved. Do I believe everything I was ever taught? No. Do I still have free agency? Yes. Is my life better now? Yes. I think I know what your major problem with the church is and maybe you have talked about it in the past. But that can be for another post. I hope you have a great life, and remember Heavenly Father loves you no matter what you think.
I appreciate your kindness. Thanks
I too left and returned. The joy of the atonement is real
th-cam.com/play/PLxDt4R7Ocz2lR9pmHEeqsNO33kja3yI2P.html&si=FMz8PGf8Ri9r0v-8
Number one: it's BS
You’re not wrong
Keep in mind that every cult has their own thing, so don't get tricked by another gimmick.
@cindybin2001 It depends on how you define cult. It's definitely false Christianity, which is how I define cult.
Have you ever heard of a cult that admitted to being a cult?🤔
@cindybin2001 The premise that the way to know if Mormonism is true is to read the book of Mormon and pray and ask if it's true and properly interpret a yes or no answer from the spirit is not a premise I live by. That's a very Mormon way to go about religion, but it's unique as far as I can tell. To know if something is true, I use logic and history and things like that.
I know it's false because it makes no sense. It claims to be the original Christianity, but there is zero evidence in history of that being the case. The ancient history that supposedly took place in the Americas is not backed up by archeology, whereas the biblical history is.
By misconceptions do you mean truth that you don't like that you would rather be phrased differently? Catholics do the same thing. Or do you mean truths that you'd rather not exist that are admitted by your own church but aren't talked about on Sundays so you'd rather pretend that means they're not true?
@cindybin2001 Mormons are the ones saying God gives you proof in a feeling. I operate on likelihoods. Why not Catholicism then if it just takes faith? Why not have faith in the pope?
I'll give it to you that maybe the adding to is just about Revelation. However, the new testament does not give the impression that a ton more scripture is coming. It is the higher, more spiritual covenant to the whole world - saved through faith in Jesus! This is the good news. This is the happy ending. We don't need another system that puts a bunch of rules back on us. We just got away from the rules of the old testament. The new testament is a good ending. So maybe people say Mormonism is another gospel because the new testament good news is that we're saved by faith and now there is this other good news that comes 1800 years later with a bunch of new rules. In Jude it says the faith was delivered once for all. We have a nice historical record. If it doesn't look Mormon, that's because it wasn't. You can say it just takes faith, but why not any number of other religious sects over the centuries then. Why not the many variations of gnostics, why not Islam, why not the Jehovah's Witnesses. See the problem? And you base it all on, you prayed for the truth and felt like it was Mormonism. Don't you think Jehovah's Witnesses genuinely believe the holy spirit is telling them theirs is the truth? Don't you think muslims genuinely believe God send Muhammad and feel it deep down that it is true?
I love this! As I watch you, a white man, I wonder if there is some privilege behind these. I’m other words, could a woman in a developing country ever get to say these things out loud safely? Would she put herself or others at risk? I think this of many of the white, ex-Mormon creators out there. While I value your struggle, it is such a privilege that you can be so open and still be safe. I wish you luck as you move forward. I found a lot of value in what you shared here.
@cindybin2001 yeah you should try it sometime Cindy
@cindybin2001very much so. Never been happier.
"The 666 man will come out of the church and announce he is a homosexual at a pageant." God and Jesus (see Daniel 11:37 in the Douay-Rheims Holy Bible; next closest KJV) "Anything more or less than Jesus' Holy Gospel's and the Epistles, disregard." paraphrasing one of the Epistles. It's not about us or our opinions, it's God's truth.
How about I give you 10,000 reasons I am still in the Church, and that would only be an honest beginning.
By all means you can start right here.
I used to have 100% confidence that it was true also.
Mormon try to live christ like the way Jesus taught us to be...and the rest of the world will put the lds church down for it...Open your minds and pray and find out for yourselfs ..ask God what is and where is the truth
What if I prayed and god told me Mormonism is false?
@@ubermormon9611 I would say no you didn't.. you have deaf ears and your eyes are blind
@@markbirch6760 Would it be possible for someone to pray and receive that answer that the LDS church is false?
I and most LDS people value good science. We don't value idiocy, however. I've looked at your CES letter, and if you were sincere you would have asked a few questions a time, so you could get scholarly answers. As it is, you are unwilling. You wanted to convince yourself to avoid the effort and responsibility of learning and obeying the gospel. When the CES looked over your 84 pages of nonsense, most likely someone just dropped it in the trash can.
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Funny how all the rules you mention the LDS church doesn't break. That was all in your head. Anyone that represents any organization can't say whatever they want because then they are speaking for that organization. Logical fallacies. Your reasoning is flawed.
You really put yourself in my shoes there.
@@ubermormon9611 Great nonresponse. You claim to be an educated man but your reasoning process is flawed. I'm educated in the sciences (BS zoology, MS biology) and your reasoning is circumstantial and full of logical fallacies.
@@jackburton307 you obviously haven’t had a bad experience with the church and that’s great! But that doesn’t mean you need toinvalidate others experiences. Also, you should add empathy to your list of studies. You obviously don’t have any.
@@chandlar.olson1214 Apologies if I came across that way. He claims to be scientifically minded but his 3 rules against the LDS church have more holes in them than swiss cheese. That's all I was saying.
th-cam.com/play/PLxDt4R7Ocz2lR9pmHEeqsNO33kja3yI2P.html&si=FMz8PGf8Ri9r0v-8
When you reach the end of yourself as god, read God's True Word to man, the Bible comprised of 66 books. Don't stop questioning religion, though. That was one of the few things Joseph Smith was right about. Tragically, he filled the void with a satanic man-centered cult.
But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.
9 “Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
10 “Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.
11 “But the greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 “Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted
New American Standard Bible: 1995 update (Mt 23:8-12). (1995). The Lockman Foundation.
Jesus is our Pastor and Teacher. He is The Word. True followers of Christ can help you know Him and His Word better. Nominal pseudo-Christian religionists will try to tell you another way to think that is their flavor of perversion of God's Word.
He left THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, due to unrepentant personal sins, now he comes up w/endless excuses/lies.
If this is a joke it’s pretty funny.
th-cam.com/play/PLxDt4R7Ocz2lR9pmHEeqsNO33kja3yI2P.html&si=FMz8PGf8Ri9r0v-8
I notice a lot of mormon trolls that come against....people thinking on their own. It's a theological cult. There's freedom outside but still in Christ. It takes time to reprogram your mind. I'll pray for a genuine relationship with God's Word and Christ a part from the indoctrination you've had.
You belong to something that does dictate what you can say what you can do even what you can think and question. It's called society. They very on the type of society you live in such as America is different then Russia. Unless you live all alone on a island there are going to be some rules or demands 9n you. Even in collage especially today were you are taught what to think not how to think. Step away from any teachers parameters and you will suffer the consequences whether it's a bad grade or expulsion. Just something to consider. I've been a member for 59 years and I've never seen or heard anything said or taught to what you describe. I would say that our colleges and universities have become more of a cult if you will because they demand complete agreement to the woke ideology. Just look at the hysteria lately when conservatives are invited to speak. Now any organization no matter what it is can come up with its rules for admittance as well standards of conduct that govern your membership and they have every right to do so. You have every right as well to leave an organization except cults. So the use of that word in connection to the church is incorrect. You know it is not a mind controlling organization. You are free to question always have been. You don't find answers if you don't question and we are taught as you well know that every member has a responsibility to question if the church is true or not. You don't have to stay a member if you don't think it is as you obviously have. Your family didn't disown you the church didn't disown you, you left.
Your a Republican aren’t you?
@@countrybear07 nope I'm an independent who believes in the constitution. Thanks for the assumption
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I don't know too much about mormonism but you do sound like a troubled soul that always had that atheistic preference. You're coming from a very modern perspective that is very much about the self. Just know you're not doing anything unique, new or remotely nuanced (quite to the contrary). You hate the idea of someone telling you what to do, but if you found yourself in a situation where you had to work under someone to survive, you'd see how quickly you'd fall right into line and I don't mean this in a conformist way, but in an every day life sort of manner. So many of you lead too comfortable lives to see any value in authority and hierarchy. You only focus on the negatives. We'll be praying for you.
"Just know you're not doing anything unique" - The irony of this sentence...
@@PoorStargazer There is no irony. There is nothing new under the Sun. The fact that you thought I would think otherwise tells me I simply struck your ego, and the Ubermormon heart on your comment is just the cherry on top.
Have another cherry
Rambling nonsense.
Listened to the first 3 minutes and the guy was rambling all over the place and never got to his first point. Lost interest.
You left, your problem. Do your research but not only your mind but your spirit too. Study but plead with the Lord for understanding and get revelations. Like many of the True Converts.
This exact advice would keep someone in Scientology.
That means it’s bad advice.
Hi
Hi indeed
Prediction: You will remain bitter the rest of your life and never find true joy and likely end up coming to your senses and end up going back to the LDS Church. Why waste your time trying to damage something that is indestructible. You seriously don’t have more productive things to do with your time?
I understand why it is necessary for you to think that I’m bitter and won’t ever be happy to protect your world view. It doesn’t bother me that you think that.
I’m willing to bet that out of the two of us I’m the only one who has lived life on both sides on the Mormon church and so I’m the only one who could actually say which side has “true joy”.
That being said, I’m not arrogant enough to claim to know what is actually best for every individual person. Which is why my videos only tell my story from my point of view.
Good luck on your journey through life. Maybe try to study humility during your next personal study.
Nice to see you can leave my video but you can’t leave it alone.
For ease of use
3:25 Rule 1 “I decide what I can study”
5:15 Rule 2 “I decide what I can say”
7:56 Rule 3 “I can question any people/information”
Absolutely! Less words=clear thinking. Banning books/ knowledge should make each of us truly pause. If you think it, say it to a loving friend with a mind that seeks truth. Question everything.
Terribly sad that people who belonged to an extreme religion (cult) and then leave because they have learned they were teaching lies, that now they become atheists. It is from one extreme to another. There is no more belief in God; no more faith. God is Love and He loves all people.
Why is it sad? Why should anyone believe in any deity, let alone your favoured one? We should have good reasons for the things we believe. Anything else is delusion.
I can agree to a point but I think the idea that God is dead rings true. Not literally speaking, God cannot die if it exists, but Nietzsche meant that religious belief of the Abrahamic style was no longer serving us well.
I think looking more deeply into what Gods essence is is a smarter path. I enjoy the idea I have heard some Buddhist monks say, that god is an ephemeral and non individual thing. In Buddhist terms, some might call it Dharma.
This is just a spitball though, we can always make more progress.
It is not sad it is quite normal and natural. These people have to learn to trust themselves before they can ever open themselves up for anything spiritual. They need a lot of healing and develope their own identity and personality. God is working even if we don't actively look out for him.
I spent months working on a list as well and came to a similar conclusion. I realized the people I was writing it for wouldn’t find the same value in it as I did.
1970s GC: “To think for oneself is the first step to apostasy.” I never forgot those words!
Big oof
Any source for this quote? If it is a legitimate quote, I need to have it shared.
There were two general conferences in 1970 just like there are every year… Which general conference are you referring to? Which speaker are you referring to and what day of general conference was the speech given… Back up your claim?
@@Mustardmanor well in the age of the internet I wielded the mighty “control F” function across the entire database of conference talks and even church lesson manuals. No such quote exists however that doesn’t mean someone didn’t say such a message in different words. I did find a quote from Brigham young saying that “the first step of apostasy is to find fault with your bishop” lol.
@@tripleraze321 I have found plenty of faults with my bishops in the past...
I’d be interested in hearing what your dads reply was to bringing up the point that the podcast speaker would need approval for his words.
He agreed with the sentiment but didn’t push back on it. I felt lucky that he was making an effort to connect with me and understand.