I think deep down Anakin knew Sidious was evil, even after becoming Vader and wanted to destroy him, Anakin didn’t truly become Darth Vader until after he lost to Obiwan on Mustifar and when he thought he’s killed Padme.
A part of me likes to believe that as well. I also feel as though since the Jedi council intentionally held Anakin back, he's was quite naive in more ways than one including the force. With Palpatines power and cunning I could see him able to cunningly influence and convert Anakin without Anakin ever knowing the truth until Palpatine revealed himself. Anakin's desperation didn't help either, that would probably also cloud his senses in the force
I'm pretty sure killing a whole bunch of little kids would make you evil dude. You people live in your own riddle reality will you make up your own opinions as facts. Padme died because of Anakin's choices she gave up her will to live because of him. What are you talkin about?
Anakin skywalker was lie to by his father Darth king plagues rule of two is over new rule of Sith is rule of 3 master king plagues disciple palpatine student 👨🎓 lord Vader that way lord maul is not Darth or lord Vader they or students lie to by plagues he coming like hulk silver surf told thanos coming am tell yaaa Luke skywalker grandfather coming master of 3 ya misss it
@@regulus7181 "I'll make my own Sith Order! With blackjack! And hookers!" is most of the history of the Sith after the Rule of Two. Calling it something else doesn't change much.
@@dariushlarijani8083 Not true lol, you dont even know what a grey jedi is.At the end when he saved Luke,he was a jedi.Thats literally what Disney and Lucas both tell us.
Tbh a world where anakin wins watches padme die then destroys the emperor in rage and balances the force by getting rid of the jedi and the sith and starting a new order could have been a very interesting story
@Eomin not necessarily. Anakin would have had unlimited access to the Jedi Archives, and could have probably merged the two into something resembling a Jedaii order. Without the constant pain of his suit and the constant corruption from Palpatine, Anakin's core personality would have eventually triumphed over Vader, as truly the only reason it hadn't is because Vader hadn't really slept in 20 years due to the pain his suit caused him. Every time he tried he was tormented by the memories of what he had done
@@Takintomori anakin was lost to the Dark Side and only turned back because of his son. I don't understand why yo guys insist on making delusional claims. Anakin was mentally unwell, he was not in a fit condition to create any kind of balance. And balance doesn't mean "equal amounts of Jedi and Sith", balance means PEACE, George Lucas explained this yearssssss ago and fans are STILL confused.
@the_vodouisant have you not read the comment they said it would have been a cool story so in theory they are nit saying any of what they are saying as true
Plagueis thought the Rule of Two would be suspended and he would rule the Galaxy together with Sidious. Sidious, however, followed the Rule of Two so it would make sense that Vader would eventually have also taken out Sidious when he learned all he needed to from Sidious.
Rule of two over new Sith laws made by king plagues wise is rule of 3 master Darth plagues disciple palpatine student 👨🎓 lord Vader maul is not Darth lie by rule of 3 it lord maul lord Vader not Darth maul or Darth Vader all lie to by Luke skywalker grandfather king Darth plagues wise he behind everything not palpatine stop palpatine
Sideous believed in the Rule of Two but in the opposite way… He was planning on gaining immortality and ruling the galaxy either replaceable weak apprentices
I think sidious knew anakin wanted to destroy him and loved that idea until he lost on mustafar and then palpatine most likely decided to do his best to make sure it didn’t happen
If Anakin did defeat Obi-Wan on mustafar, then he'd definitely try to go for Sidious. He (Sidious) would probably already feel that so he would take that as Vaders steps to actually become the master, allowing him to strike to only teach him his 1st lessons of the darkside. The way Maul was teaching Savage, he learned if from somewhere. (Sidious teaching)
Hard to imagine Sideous wouldn't anticipate a betrayal by Anakin. Without the element of surprise, he would have to do what Yoda couldn't, which is hard for me to imagine.
Anakin was more of a soldier than an administrator. Palpatine had the administration, logistics , and charisma in managing the bureaucracy of the Republic and Empire. Taking Palpatine's life most would make him a martyr and Anakin a traitor. Anakin would have a very unstable rule in a galaxy with his legitimacy being questioned in assassination.
@hackman669 thats too much thinking for Anakin. He would admit that he killed Palpatine, reveal that it was Palpatine who played both sides of the Clone Wars, and the Galaxy would have seen Anakin as a hero. Hell, they already DID see him as The Hero with No Fear. Anakin would have ruled for about 5 years I imagine before it got our exactly how unhinged he was, and how unprepared he was to live in a time without war
Anakin would of waited a couple of years before killing Palpatine. He was arrogant but not stupid. He knew he’d have to train for a couple of years to be able to beat Palpatine.
If Anakin had won on Mustafar and immediately faced Sidious, he would have lost. He potentially would have gotten a lot stronger than Sidious but at that point he wasn't ready for it.
Bro what? Anakin during Operation Knightfall would clown Sidious Lmfao. In legends KFV is the most powerful force user and would 100% beat Yoda and even Sidious.
But what if Anakin had gotten food poisoning on this day that he found out Palpatine was a sith? How would the galaxy look if he ran out of the council chambers not because he feared Mace killing Sidious would cause the death of his wife, but rather because he felt a disturbance in his colon?
I think the alternate ending shown in the video game in that moment is plausible. I think it is possible that the overwhelming guilt of having just killed Obi-Wan, his father figure/big brother and Mentor, turns into seething Rage. Looking over at an unconscious Padme would further ignite his Vader/Anakin’s Rage to the point that in the moment Palpatine/Sidious presents him with his new Red light saber and the rage becomes pure fury. In that moment, Vader/Anakin is feeling such intense, raw emotions that his power is overwhelming and in an instant, he catches Palpatine by such surprise, and with such fury and raw power with that new Red light saber only serving as a reminder of the lives he has personally taken, that in an instant he, without a thought, cuts Sidious/Palpatine down. I think that with that combination of rage turned fury, even self hatred over what he has done, who he has killed, that Vader/Anakin is simply Overwhelmed by a fury that he cannot contain. In that split second, he is flooded with such Crushing emotions, that he reaches his full potential of power and the force swells past the point that it even did on Mortis. Without even being aware of it himself, Vader/Anakin becomes so powerful that in picosecond, too fast for Palpatine/Sidious to realize, as Palpatine/Sidious hands him the new Red light saber, he cuts an absolutely Unaware Palpatine/Sidious down instantaneously. How long he can maintain that level of rage and power, that depends on what happens to Padme. If somehow he can get her take her on a shuttle and calms down enough to demonstrate actual love for Padme, and she hangs on long enough for the best medical droids in what was the New Republic, with him at her side, holding her, can help her and the children are born, his full potential could simply be reached. At Mortis he nearly reached his full potential in being able to control both the Son and the Daughter at the same time. THAT, would simply not have been possible if Anakin had not been able to tap into the fullness of the power he could reach. Even if Padme succumbs, after she names the children and kisses Anakin/Vader goodbye and tells him ‘Love and take care of our children.’, I think he still is able to reach, even maintain his full potential power. He would have find Holicrons to learn techniques, but he could easily find Palpatin/Sidious’ stash, as well as what is at the Jedi Temple. Now, going forward how would he present in terms of which side of the force does he wield. I have theories, but I don’t really have anything to base them on beyond what I’ve just supposed. I think he becomes as close to what a grey Jedi would be what I believe he would resemble. He would still have the capacity to lose control and emotional rage and overwhelming passion or what have you and lash out with a controlled form of the dark side. Yet, at the same time, be able to touch, the fullness of the light side when he sees his children and they remind him of the love, he shared with Padme and the love he has for them. I believe that there is a solid foundation, based on what you spoke of in the novelization of seeing all the dead separatists on Mustafar, his turmoil over having just killed Obi-Wan, and then rage that it was Palpatine/Sidious who sent him to do that errand. Compounded by what he had done to Padme, whether or not, she lives was clearly stuck in the Mind. This only occurred because that Palpatine/Sidious had forced him into going to Mustafar. As you said, from the novelization, Vader/Anakin had already committed himself to killing him anyway. In that moment Palpatine/Sidious congratulates him, handing him the new Red light saber, he is so overwhelmed by regret, sorrow, loss, rage, anger, fury; that just like on Mortis his power becomes overwhelming and in attosecond that he receives his new Red light saber, he absolutely cuts Palpatine/Sidious down. If he catches Sidious/Palpatine by such surprise in Return of the Jedi, he ABSOLUTELY BLINDSIDES him on Mustafar‼️‼️
I've always thought of the force as a balance scale. On one side, you have the Light side/Jedi, and the Dark side/Sith on the other. When both sides are on, the scale is balanced. Remove the Light side; the scale tips toward the Dark and vice versa. The only way to achieve balance in the force is by removing/destroying both the Jedi and the Sith simultaneously.
I find this interesting because there are a few instances where it seems like one of the Jedi (Ahsoka in Rebels when she faces Vader apart from the jedi hence her white lightsaber signifying a neutral color) and Rey at the end of Episode 9 after destroying Palpatine and buring her lightsaber she turns on her new yellow colored saber. Perhaps she would go on to establish a new order in the force that encompassed both the light and the dark sides but abandoning the ways of the Jedi and the Sith.
Technically, after Sidious died there are no more Sith in cannon, atleast right now. Meanwhile there are other Sith like beings running around. Personally I would love to see Sith and Rens join forces. Then have Jedi have to deal with both.
@Jerel Boza I wouldn't say so, he had darkside training but no real Sith. Ben was a pawn. In saying that, I could be wrong but this is how I see it if that makes sense.
At the time of Anakin’s duel with Obi Wan, he was powerful at fighting, but he had not yet learned what made Sidius truly formidable: his political machinations. Sure, he might have been able to kill him, but he would not have been able to hold the Galaxy together, because he hadn’t learned of all of Sidious’ plans and contingencies that he would learn in the ensuing years as Darth Vader. He probably would have burned hot, have had the whole galaxy turn against him, and left it in ruins.
You're saying this as if Mas Amedda Palpatine's political advisor didn't exist Bro Anakin would sure learn of the political machinations from Mas and not to mention all the plans and contingencies that Sidious has and Mas would voluntarily hand all this over to Anakin and will save Padme and the galaxy would be his forever
@@DarthSebastian2001 Sure, it’s a possibility, assuming Mas Amedda wasn’t loyal to Palpatine to the point of dying for him. But there’s no way he would have saved Padme, since his turn to the dark side and his selfish attachment to her is basically what what killed her. Even if he hadn’t attacked her on Mustafar, she would eventually leave him for destroying the republic, which would anger him, and he probably would, at best keep her captive, and at worst attack her just like he did on Mustafar. Or she could escape. Either way Anakin wasn’t going to get a happy ending.
If things did play out like this, Vader would have eventually attempted to kill Siddious, and Vader's arrogance would have helped in s short fight but the longer it could have gone it would lead to his down fall. Leading Siddious to rule for far longer than he ultimately did.
Him being more “powerful” is a moot point. He doesn’t view power in its proper context when it comes to Palpatine. Anakin’s arrogance shines bright. He’s under the impression that Sidious is an easy out Blade to blade we know that’s not true if the best of them couldn’t get him out. And unlike a young Anakin Skywalker, Sidious is old and experienced, with tremendous foresight. He had contingency plans lined up in case Anakin ever got out of line. He probably had numerous ways to deal with Vader in case he ever got too big headed.
I don't think that Anakin would have been able to defeat Sidious at that point, but thanks for including the old memory of Revenge Of The Sith for me! I miss that game!
If Padmé joined him I could see her be the mother, queen, and matriarch of the galaxy holding Anakin back from the depths. If she refused and Anakin won (assuming she died) I think he’d do what you said and create an eternal empire ready for conquest rather than consolidating and ruling as he wished (slavery and the Hutts may have been the first casualty).
Anakin lost to Obi wan because he fully thought that he is better than he is. However, in Palpatine's case the thing would be different, because he knew how strong Palpatine is. No place to underestimate him. Anakin didn't underestimated Dooku and was able to kill him, but he lost to Obi wan because of his confidence...
I always thought this would be an interesting plot twist: Anakin succeeds in killing Obi-wan, and meets Sideous on the landing pad above the shores of Mustafar. Obi-wan's spirit stares down at his own corpse in disbelief, scarcely able to begin to process his own death at that moment. Yoda reaches out to him and instructs him how to live on as a face ghost, and that is why we see Obi-wan in A New Hope essentially ready to disappear at the moment Vader's lightsaber strikes him. He was a force ghost all along, and it works with the line that Vader says to him on the Death Star, "you should not have come back". In an ironic twist of fate, it is Obi-wan, not Anakin, who learns to defy death. Meanwhile, Anakin reports to Sideous of his success in killing Obi-wan, blind to the imminent blindsiding attack of Sith lightning coming from Palpatine. The burns on Vader's body come not from the fires of Mustafar, but the intensity of Sideous's power. It is revealed that Palpatine never planned to have Anakin succeed him, he simply needed somebody powerful enough to pull of Order 66 and enforce his will under the new Empire. Anakin becomes warped and twisted by torture as a result of this betrayal, damaged beyond repair and trapped within a suit that torments him without end. This fits with canon, as Vader warns Luke in RoTJ "you don't know the power of the dark side". He is a pawn and a prisoner of the Emperor himself, as he made the mistake of underestimating the dark side in his youth. His own son is at risk of the same fate he suffered, ultimately leading him to sacrifice himself to kill the Emperor. It also makes sense in the movies for Vader's operation within the empire; He kills officers at every opportunity out of resentment for his enslaved position. He is reckless with imperial resources despite clearly being far more intelligent of a commander and could be more efficient if he wanted to. He cares little for the Death Star and seems glad if anything that it was blown up. He is allowed to do these things freely, because no matter how he lashes out or what he does he cannot escape the Emperor's grasp and his rage will never be enough to avenge his betrayal at the hands of his former friend, father figure, and master.
what i'd like to see hearing this where Anakin "is not dead yet" and is still in conflict with Vader. is to have a moment like when (whoever he was then) and Obi Won are talking on the platform riding down the lava ... to have Obi Won do what i think is more in HIS character. to lower his weapon and listen to and reason with Anakin ... its like a split personality in Vader/Anakin and maybe his brother Obi Won helping bring him back to the light (FORGET the movies and plot armor) would set up a whole new set of cool directions the movies could have gone in
I believe Darth Vader would have challenged Darth Sidious, gotten his but kicked, but not permanently injured. Sidious said to Yoda that Vader would become more powerful than himself. He wanted Vader to become that powerful and he knew from Maul how dangerous over confidence could be. By humbling Vader then properly teaching him he would have eventually given the Empire to Vader so he could go play with his Sith Alchemy.
There is a comic book or books that talked about, as Padame gave birth Anakin was undergoing his transition into the cyborg he eventually becomes, Sidious used a dark side ability along the lines of force life transfer stealing her life to keep Anakin alive. if Anakin didn't get damaged then that would not have been necessary and she probably would have survived, heartbroken, but alive
Someone brought up a good theory with Padme dying to me one time which to me makes more sense than just a broken heart. What if Sideous knew how to stop people from death but required someone else to die? A life for a life? So to stop Vader from dying, he used the ability to take Padme's life to save Vader and say it was his fault that Padme died. How would he have known she died if he wasn't with her when she died? Unless he took her life through the force. And then not mention how to use the ability ever again since there was no need to use it. To me this makes much more sense. It's probably a stretch but what are your thoughts?
An even more interesting alt take on mustafar and what anakin's plans were.. Imagine if he had explained to obi wan what his plans were and managed to convince him to allow/join him in these plans. It was no mystery to Obi the Jedi council was failing them by this point and the sith were returning. After the reveal that Palpatine is Sidious, it would've been very evident that the galaxy would be in dire straits should this new empire of his not be put down quickly. I think it's a good possibility that Obi wan could've taken the bait to join if Anakin had explained his intention and the idea of a galaxy without the sith or the jedi, together. A true organization of balance to bring order to chaos and justice where there is none. That could be a super cool ending as well.
6:38 well, if you go by the theory that sidious was using the dark side of the force to take padme's life force and give it to Vader, then she wouldn't have died. That's my headcanon
Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus and Vader are so similar. Both went to the darkside for to try to save what they loved. Not to actually be "evil" such a fine line between dark and light side of the force.
That’s what the apprentice always wants to do, but they have to find someone to replace them. We see in the films Dooku trying to replace himself with Obi Wan and Darth Vader with Luke.
This makes sense. It's possible he played double game. He lost on Mustafar because of his anger,lost for power and hatred. He got destroyed there,as you said. I don't think Anakin would bring balance. It would be strange and weird. Anakin couldn't destroyed Sidious. He wasn't ready. He had many years to learn. And even than.. Even when he was fully Vader. May the Force be with you too
Anakin was suffering from Delusions of Grandeur! His Fear of loosing Padme was his undoing. He lost his mom. Being raised as a slave left him w/ major unresolved issues. As a Jedi youngling he needed therapy! 💔😡🤔😇💯 Palpatine/ The Emperor/ Darth Sidious knew this and played Anakin/ Vader to his own undoing. You can’t manipulate a Sith. Evil dies from within. 💯
Anakin/Darth Vader was never a true sith. He was just a guy that was fed up of being controlled, belittled , put down & continuously disrespected. All those things have bubbled up to the surface after years of pushing these feelings down & will turn anyone mad really 🤷🏾♂️. He just wanted to live his own life & have his family by his side that’s pretty much it really.
Sidious would have known that Vader was eventually going to betray him. Sidious had already done this to Plagueis, and he knew that was Vader's destiny as well. Sidious was already planning for his own resurrection through the use of clones. He didn't care that Vader had planned to kill him; he himself had planned for, and expected, this outcome.
1:52 The real question is why was he so afraid of padame's death did she have a family history of complications or did the doctor they were seeing tell them that something was wrong
The difference between Anakin winning & Obi-wan winning is a split second of individual decision-making Anakin was certainly strong enough to take on Sidious; what he lacked was judgment so I think any outcome was possible but would have depended on Sidious’ judgment & Anakin’s luck whereas the outcome we got depended on Anakin’s luck & Obi-wan’s judgment
I thought that Anakin already knew that Sidious didn't know the way of keeping someone from dying. In the Chancellor's office, after he had pledged himself to his Darkside (Sidious's) teachings. No, I don't think Anakin was ready to kill his new master, because he hadn't learned anything there was about the Darkside. Plus, Sidious would wary of this happening. I think that the Darkside clouded Anakin's thoughts at that time.
I'm not surprised, Anakin playing the fool and pretending Sidious was completely in control of his thoughts would have been normal in hindsight when thinking of how he always wanted to overthrow him while being Vader, and also how he was always thinking about his role as a Jedi when we see him talk to Padme about how disillusioned he is with how little good the Jedi do while being restricted, and how similarly the senate is just acting like an overinflated bureaucracy, at that moment it would probably be wise to do a 180 if anyone thought he was a himbo, since that shows he is conscious not only of his place in the galaxy but of being humble and careful enough not to be outspoken against the organizations his position represents. And everything Jedi in origin tells of how devious and backstabbing the Sith are, so seeing it coming from a mile away wouldn't have been too surprising, his level of pokerface even while conflicted on the other hand, maybe oscar worthy xD, more so if he was seeing this coming from before Mace Windu's death (I'm convinced this is possible and he was just finally facing his feelings after that, or rather finally accepting he had no future following Sidious even though he needed him).
As chapter V of Obi Wan TV serie showed us, Darth Vader still had too much to learn. I think his arrogance made him blind and at that moment, Sidious would still overcome Anakin. The Bad Batch is showing us how ingenious Sidious was. As Rex mentioned, always steps ahead of everyone.
See me and my buddy created a dnd star wars type of game where we take this idea. Anakin decided instead of attacking when he jumps at obi wan to move around him and then grab him with the force and stab him through the back. Then after the loss of his wife and children he is filled with hate and grief. Hate for sidious and grief for his loved ones deaths. After there deaths he kills Sidious and installs a new empire. Instead of hunting down jedi he would find them and try to turn them in not then he'd kill them. Creating his own order of force users. After some time Anakin takes a load off and dissapears for awhile and leaves his apprentice in charge of things for now. The players can either play as jedi or new Imperial force users. In the end they can choose to join sides or kill eachother. If they join sides then they take down anakins new apprentice who is pretty much a new version of Starkiller you have to fight Anakin who is nearly unbeatable
Anakin getting to train his own son. Is something worth exploring. I believe he wouldnt lose himself completely to the dark side. If he knew his children were alive. The piece of him that held the light still existed. I believe it was three parts shattered all at once. His masters betrayal, padme couldn't be saved and his childrens deaths. Saving even only one of these proved able to turn Darth Vader; eventually. (As Luke was able to do against the emperor.) This would leave Anakin somewhere in the middle.
After he had a moment to breath and think after killing the Separatist leaders, he had to realize one thing: Wait, if Palpatine was Sidious this whole time, that means he was the leader of the Separatists as well as the Republic. Because we knew they were controlled by someone called Sidious. And they even confirmed it now while I was killing them. Palpatine is the one who orchestrated this entire war and he played us all like a cheap fiddle!" There is no way Anakin would still believe that Palpatine was his friend as he was deluded to think before, after such a massive lie and manipulation scheme was revealed. On the other hand though, I don't believe it would be possible for him to overthrow the Emperor. Maybe he'd get lucky and kill him. But becoming a Sith master after killing his own master when there are only two, that's the easy part. Because nobody else is here to contest you. The problem is, you don't automatically become Emperor when you kill Emperor. Especially during the first formative years of the Empire. The Republic was only slowly transitioning into the Empire. But it wasn't nowhere near the full Empire yet. There were still many political power plays and pretense of democracy. Anakin was a lot of things, but not a politician, especially not the crony corrupted kind that would be needed to take control of the entire Empire. Not from his position, that's for sure. Even if he somehow magically got all the skills and knowledge of politics like Palpatine, he would not be able to take over after simply killing Palpatine. He would have to prepare some circumstances, he would have to wait for appropriate moment when things calm down, he would have to plot... Just stabbing the guy in charge doesn't make you the ruler of the entire galaxy. And the fact that the Empire was still pretty much like the Republic can be seen in the beginning of New Hope. When Vader arrives at the moff meeting, he tells them that the Emperor dissolved Senate. And the moffs don't want to believe it. Just imagine that. Senate kept functioning like 18 years after Palpatine declared himself the Emperor, and the highest of high Empire officers didn't think Emperor had the authority to remove it. So do you really think that Vader would have a chance to take over politically? No way. At least not in the beginning, until the system became completely and utterly autocratic.
Firstly God I wish they'd somehow remaster that episode 3 game (I know it's never going to happen but damn.) What I think would happen is something similar to what happened in the game, barring one thing I think Anakin personally would of taken Kenobi's lightsaber to use in his bleeding ritual, and after becoming fully indoctrinated into the Sith philosophy only then would he kill Palpatine or try to as The Emperor would be well versed in the rule of two and knew Anakin would one day come for him.
Anakin was quickly approaching his potential on Mustafar. The book says he could feel his power growing, that combined with the fact that Lucas has stated at full potential Anakin is twice as powerful as Sidious means Anakin would 1000% defeat Sidious. That puts Anakin at world eating status
Interesting to contemplate. Before I continue, I must note that I detest villains as either repulsive or pathetic. Till Lord Vader (David Prowse). Even then, I knew what he was. Mr. Lucas created Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid) expressly to serve as a counterpoint to Lord Vader (David Prowse, Hayden Christensen), to illustrate that the latter in actuality had felt conflicted about his actions--this to give rise to a path to a supposed redemption. In the initial trilogy, we had no impression of this in Vader; he was uncompromisingly evil, implacably malevolent, and terrifyingly formidable. In manifesting these, he developed a deeply grim cache that ironically made him compelling. Mr. Lucas persisted in his vision for this character as torn and conflicted, toward an eventual return. (The wholesale massacre of Yoda's Younglings frankly made that utterly impossible.) I argue that this is a mistake, remaking of the greatest cinematic villain of all time a bitter, petulant crybaby--even to a tear from a Sith-yellowed eye. However, it is his story to tell.
Old age and treachery will always beat youth and enthusiasm. Palps would have eaten his lunch. (Even earlier than all the other times he smacked Vader down)
I have the original novel but I don't think some of the info you have is correct about Anakin. Dooku was an error when I said Maul cut Anakin's arm off I'm sure that was a mistake as we both know Tyrannus is Dooku. Dooku wanted to create an army of force sensitives. I love your vids and yes he planned on gaining more knowledge from Sidious then when the time was right he would kill him. He was naive but knew Sidious caused him lots of bs w the war etc lying to him being he was the Sith Lord. I know Anakin woulda destroyed Sidious but as George says on the Original DVD bonus features plus in the many books on the making of Ep 3. "Anakin was the chosen 1 even when he is Darth Vader he was still the chosen one" -George Lucas. Keep up the good work. Thank you for your work Star Wars Theory & you & many others are awesome.
I actually remember playing that game and that alternate ending....but I always thought it was wierd they dont truly dive into that part of the story....I introduced. Y wife to star wars and after watching like 3 or 4 times with me she cane to tge same realization most star wars fans come to in the movies.....she asked like after Anakin finds out Palpatine was behind everything why wasnt he mad at him for everything.... and I always say I think he did in his heart of hearts but they dont do a good job of showing it on film....thank you for this video
For me, the question of Anakin is bigger than finding culprits or saviors, victims or executioners. All played a role that culminated in the rise of the Empire. I think that sometimes the affection we have or feel for Anakin makes us fantasize that perhaps under more favorable conditions, he might choose better paths. We find it difficult to accept decisions that are different from what we would like. In my opinion, Anakin made a choice. He has always been endowed with free will. All of his past, sufferings, fears and insecurities explain how and why he decided on the path of the Sith. That didn't make him a victim. Just as Obi Wan or the Jedi Council are not to blame for what Anakin has become by choice. Qui Gon isn't Anakin's savior either. Sidious didn't turn Anakin into Vader. He awakened a facet of Anakin's personality. Anakin himself mentions that Darth Vader killed Anakin. The complexity of life lies in how a being balances his qualities and weaknesses in the face of challenges and pain, how he overcomes fears and insecurities, how he makes his choices and uses his free will. The Empire's dominance over the galaxy was the result of the choice of an entire collectivity. And thus the Rebel Alliance was formed. I like Anakin with all the complexity and choices he made. The Star Wars Expanded Universe has shown us this a lot. I love The Bad Batch, Andor, Obi Wan and everything else that has been released even in books and comics. That's my take on Anakin's choices.
At best his raw power would match sidious at that moment but because of his superior skills sidious would win. He needed more training in both the lightsaber or the force to defeat sidious
Even if Anakin had destroyed Obi-Wan and left Palpatine alive long enough to learn power over death, I suspect Palpatine would have pulled the strings to kill Padme anyway to cement Vader's loyalty and his position in the dark side.
Aniken would have had his ass kicked if he attempted to take on Sidious. Heed prolly try and learn all he could in a short amount of time and than do it, only realizing that sidious is a god sith and needed help to do so…. Which he thought he was finally getting with Luke. Didn’t Vader tell Luke they could defeat him together? The star killer idea? I really hope we see Ashoka and Vader 1 more time with Vader asking her to join him and her turning him down.
Seeing Anakin destroy Sidious would require considerable manipulation on a level that even Sidious himself couldn't image. Which would be tough enough all on it's own. Sidious was an incredibly manipulative person like all true Sith Lords.
Over confidence, fear,and arrogance is what led to his downfall. I acknowledge that Anakin Skywalker is power with the force. But,it doesn't mean that he's unbeatable. Having power is one thing....when you lack discipline and experience. All that power is worthless,it will not shield you from what's to come. Obi-wan defeats him because of discipline and experience. During their,obi-wan kept a level head and stayed calm. Anakin the other hand press on with rage and unfocused. He played into obi-wans's hand. Obi-Wan was 10 steps ahead of him from the beginning....He thought that with power alone that he would defeat his former Master.
if anakin didnt lose to kenobi he would be atleast twice as strong as we knew him as and wouldnt have the weakness of his suit. he would clap sidius in seconds
At this point in time he would have struggled with Sidious I think. No-one is surely gonna say he could beat Yoda here and Sidious was able to match the Jedi Grandmaster in most areas. Anakin killing Obi-Wan would have boosted his ego but he's still Anakin here. It would have caused him much more pain than he expected and that would then be directed into anger and would fuel his power greatly. Still, I think he would learn what he could from Sidious insofar as he originally planned to and by the time he has learned, Sidious would be no match for his power as the Chosen One. . Frankly though, I think Sidious knew this or at least suspected it and so wither wouldn't give Anakin the secret while Padmé was alive, even if he discovered it. He'd be signing his own death warrant. With all that said, a fully intact Anakin dealing with Padmé's death isn't something that Sidious wants either. Remember that in the RotS novelization and comic, we see that Vader actually attacks Sidious with the Force in his moment of rage as well. He tosses the Emperor back but his recent wounds have left him unable to tap a large portion of his power in that moment and so after his initial burst of rage, he lacks the strength to touch Palpatine with the force again. If that was a fully powered Anakin, in full command of his rage and without the nerfs he suffered from losing all his limbs, he might well have killed the Emperor there and then - after all Anakin would be able to cent all of his pain and guilt and rage onto the Emperor for everything that had happened all so that his wife would die anyway. If we're considering extended canon as well, Anakin in the Clone Wars was able to handle the Son and the Daughter in a moment of intense emotion (albeit with their location amping him) but when if you take the power of say... the Son.... and then make it 100 times less, chances are it's still enough raw power to slap Palpatine. . Anakin could have taken Sidious down this early if he got the jump on him or under specific circumstances (like having Padmé die anyway even after he'd won and everything had gone hownit was supposed to). However, the moment Anakin learns enough that he doesn't feel he needs Sidious anymore, Palpatine is a dead man. Thing is, Palpatine kinda wants Padmé alive if Anakin wins to keep him stable enough that he doesn't lose it and go nuclear on everyone (including the Emperor who I'm SURE is aware that Anakin would blame him). That then however raises the issue for the Emperor of Anakin's vision. If Padmé survives Mustapha and childbirth, then Anakin's fears are irrelevant now and he will have prevented Padmé's death. Sidious will likely play it off as the Force rewarding him for fulfilling his destiny but again, what's to stop Anakin from killing Palpatine then? . Overall it's just a bad time for Sidious if Anakin beats Obi-Wan. Either Padmé dies and Anakin loses it, taking it out o n the Emperor and likely killing him - if not making a deal with him or something like Sidious bargaining powers of resurrection etc. Or, Padmé lives. This is terrible for Sidious because Padmé is obviously not evil and she would have Anakin's ear while Sidious' influence would be limited. He might even be forced to continue to play his role as Palpatine and keep up the narrative of the Jedi betrayal and all that just for her sake and that kind of thing would infuriate Sidious. I'm sure he'd try and have some "accident or something" to happen to her but honestly, by the time things progress to that point, Anakin might just end up killing the Emperor anyway - especially of he's kept up yuis training and likely RADICAL power growth.
This gives another understanding as to why Anakin hates obiwan so much. Obi litterally took away his chances at overthrowing sidious, cutting his limbs, and losing a crap load of midichlorians, weakening him. Vader will forever be a slave to Palpatine till almost the end. In a twisted tragic change of events, palpatine then became vaders only “friend” who “cared” for him like with Anakin.
@@B3an01 George Lucas did originally want Anakin to suspect that obi wan and Padme were having an affair but decided against it bc it was too cliche of a story, so he kept it out and pushed the fact that obi wan and Padme were like brother and sister and Obiwan only true love was Satine Kryz. Anakin never suspected cheating, just that Obiwan turned her against him by having her not join in his dark plans, as well as Obiwan himself not joining him and supporting the Jedi that always hurt and belittled Anakin and kept him from saving his wife and mother. Among other things as well. I’m rlly glad Lucas made that decision. It gives a different depth and tragicness to the story. Anakin killing his wife from blind rage not over the fact that she cheated, but because he KNEW she loved him so much but yet didn’t join him. That was his sense of betrayal. Because he himself would do ANYTHING for his loved ones. And to see they weren’t doing the same broke him even further.
@@B3an01 Thats very true. Obi wan begs Padme to tell him where Anakin is bc he must be “stopped”. A new Starwars watcher could simply view this as that he was doing a heroic thing and all evil must be vanquished. But looking deeper, theres no clear line between bad and good. The jedi aint that much better than the sith. Obiwan could have given Anakin a chance and tried to sympathize with him and show compassion to this “ tantrum” he was basically showing. But instead got Padme to tell him where he is so he could kill him bc there was “basically no hope” for him. When he himself and the jedi are part of the reason he even went down that dark path. He had some power to try and bring him back. He needed his master more than ever in that moment and Obi-wan truly did abandon and betray him. And we’re not even talking abt betraying him by not joining the sith. He betrayed him as a master, as a person who was supposed to be like his father figure and help him through these explosion of feelings he cant control that was caused by obi wan and others. so ya obi wan definitely betrayed him in a way
To answer the question, he would have fell to Palpatine the same as he fell to Obi Wan. He was to arrogant to realize it. The killing part is that Palpatine would have done him worse than Obi Wan.
I believe in the prophecy; Anakin would end both orders. But do you think he would strive to rule the galaxy? Why? He'd never follow that fool Sidious' ambition. No. The power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force. I believe he would have taken on a deep study of all aspects of the newly balanced Force and become a Force Buddah, living out the rest of his days in wooden temples playing with his children.
I don't know. ... Padme would have still died, but Vader would have the twins as a constant reminder of her & Anakin. ... Heck, if he was there for Padme's death & the birth - Who knows if he'd even remain Vader? ... Is an important part to view upon at the very least.
This could be considered part of the idea from the PlayStation 2 game of SW: Revenge of the Sith in the what if scenario. And I also believe that this was even explained in the comic book version of Darth Vader during his trial.
I think deep down Anakin knew Sidious was evil, even after becoming Vader and wanted to destroy him, Anakin didn’t truly become Darth Vader until after he lost to Obiwan on Mustifar and when he thought he’s killed Padme.
Exactly. But if he did kill Sidious he would be truly all alone
A part of me likes to believe that as well.
I also feel as though since the Jedi council intentionally held Anakin back, he's was quite naive in more ways than one including the force. With Palpatines power and cunning I could see him able to cunningly influence and convert Anakin without Anakin ever knowing the truth until Palpatine revealed himself.
Anakin's desperation didn't help either, that would probably also cloud his senses in the force
I'm pretty sure killing a whole bunch of little kids would make you evil dude. You people live in your own riddle reality will you make up your own opinions as facts. Padme died because of Anakin's choices she gave up her will to live because of him. What are you talkin about?
Anakin skywalker was lie to by his father Darth king plagues rule of two is over new rule of Sith is rule of 3 master king plagues disciple palpatine student 👨🎓 lord Vader that way lord maul is not Darth or lord Vader they or students lie to by plagues he coming like hulk silver surf told thanos coming am tell yaaa Luke skywalker grandfather coming master of 3 ya misss it
At that point he had nothing left but the sith.
One of the Sith, plotting to kill their master? Astonishing. Unprecedented, even.
I am shocked
:0
@@regulus7181 "I'll make my own Sith Order! With blackjack! And hookers!" is most of the history of the Sith after the Rule of Two. Calling it something else doesn't change much.
@@xigabrelless1980 Shocking, indeed.
I don't think that has occurred in Sith history
How do you call a Sith who joins the Sith with the intention of one day killing his own master? A Sith :p
Anakin is a grey jedi at the end when he saves Luke.
@@dariushlarijani8083 Not true lol, you dont even know what a grey jedi is.At the end when he saved Luke,he was a jedi.Thats literally what Disney and Lucas both tell us.
Umm that is the core tenets of being a sith
All sith intend on killing their master in the rule of two to eventually become the master and take on his own apprentice
@@Drillz4Cheap didn't a sith before sidious use the power of three?
Tbh a world where anakin wins watches padme die then destroys the emperor in rage and balances the force by getting rid of the jedi and the sith and starting a new order could have been a very interesting story
A very interesting, but short story.
@Eomin not necessarily. Anakin would have had unlimited access to the Jedi Archives, and could have probably merged the two into something resembling a Jedaii order. Without the constant pain of his suit and the constant corruption from Palpatine, Anakin's core personality would have eventually triumphed over Vader, as truly the only reason it hadn't is because Vader hadn't really slept in 20 years due to the pain his suit caused him. Every time he tried he was tormented by the memories of what he had done
Yup agreed
@@Takintomori anakin was lost to the Dark Side and only turned back because of his son. I don't understand why yo guys insist on making delusional claims. Anakin was mentally unwell, he was not in a fit condition to create any kind of balance. And balance doesn't mean "equal amounts of Jedi and Sith", balance means PEACE, George Lucas explained this yearssssss ago and fans are STILL confused.
@the_vodouisant have you not read the comment they said it would have been a cool story so in theory they are nit saying any of what they are saying as true
Plagueis thought the Rule of Two would be suspended and he would rule the Galaxy together with Sidious. Sidious, however, followed the Rule of Two so it would make sense that Vader would eventually have also taken out Sidious when he learned all he needed to from Sidious.
Rule of two is over new rules of Sith is rule of 3 master Darth plagues disciple palpatine student 👨🎓 lord Vader
Rule of two over new Sith laws made by king plagues wise is rule of 3 master Darth plagues disciple palpatine student 👨🎓 lord Vader maul is not Darth lie by rule of 3 it lord maul lord Vader not Darth maul or Darth Vader all lie to by Luke skywalker grandfather king Darth plagues wise he behind everything not palpatine stop palpatine
And sidious was ok with that, because he firmly believed in the rule of 2
Sideous believed in the Rule of Two but in the opposite way…
He was planning on gaining immortality and ruling the galaxy either replaceable weak apprentices
I think sidious knew anakin wanted to destroy him and loved that idea until he lost on mustafar and then palpatine most likely decided to do his best to make sure it didn’t happen
If Anakin did defeat Obi-Wan on mustafar, then he'd definitely try to go for Sidious. He (Sidious) would probably already feel that so he would take that as Vaders steps to actually become the master, allowing him to strike to only teach him his 1st lessons of the darkside. The way Maul was teaching Savage, he learned if from somewhere. (Sidious teaching)
Hard to imagine Sideous wouldn't anticipate a betrayal by Anakin. Without the element of surprise, he would have to do what Yoda couldn't, which is hard for me to imagine.
Anakin was more of a soldier than an administrator. Palpatine had the administration, logistics , and charisma in managing the bureaucracy of the Republic and Empire. Taking Palpatine's life most would make him a martyr and Anakin a traitor. Anakin would have a very unstable rule in a galaxy with his legitimacy being questioned in assassination.
Could make it look like an accident. Takeout the Emperor the same way Plagous died. Then rule as military dictator 😄
@hackman669 thats too much thinking for Anakin. He would admit that he killed Palpatine, reveal that it was Palpatine who played both sides of the Clone Wars, and the Galaxy would have seen Anakin as a hero. Hell, they already DID see him as The Hero with No Fear. Anakin would have ruled for about 5 years I imagine before it got our exactly how unhinged he was, and how unprepared he was to live in a time without war
@@Takintomori just like arcann ruled 5 years after He took over valkorion's throne 😂
Yeah, I get the impression that paperwork would bore the hell out of him.
@@Takintomori but while arcann was whiney and just a puppet for valkorion, anakin would have become a valkorion hinself by destroying the sith
It would have been interesting to see this outcome although I think Anakin's arrogance would still be his downfall.
That or sand
Anakin would of waited a couple of years before killing Palpatine. He was arrogant but not stupid. He knew he’d have to train for a couple of years to be able to beat Palpatine.
Nah
Nah, Rey took out the Emperor fairly easy. I am sure Anakin would have destroyed him in that moment.
@@TroutFlyFisher who’s Rey, Rey and the sequels don’t exist to me
@@TroutFlyFisher Disney is stupid dude. No star wars theory should take any sliver of influence from those terrible "writers"
@@lemau8458Exactly
"Everybody has a plan till Obi Wan gets the high ground" - Mike Tyson
If Anakin had won on Mustafar and immediately faced Sidious, he would have lost. He potentially would have gotten a lot stronger than Sidious but at that point he wasn't ready for it.
Could have vid him time. Learned from Sudious for a couple years. Then defeat him later😃
Bro what? Anakin during Operation Knightfall would clown Sidious Lmfao. In legends KFV is the most powerful force user and would 100% beat Yoda and even Sidious.
@@CelestQB kfv?
@@privateuser3726 Knightfall Vader
@@CelestQB You realise he lost to Obiwan right...
But what if Anakin had gotten food poisoning on this day that he found out Palpatine was a sith? How would the galaxy look if he ran out of the council chambers not because he feared Mace killing Sidious would cause the death of his wife, but rather because he felt a disturbance in his colon?
😦😯🤔
This is compelling
I have the pooooooooweeeeer of super diahrrrrreaaaa
How far can we take this???
I want more of this story.
I think the alternate ending shown in the video game in that moment is plausible. I think it is possible that the overwhelming guilt of having just killed Obi-Wan, his father figure/big brother and Mentor, turns into seething Rage. Looking over at an unconscious Padme would further ignite his Vader/Anakin’s Rage to the point that in the moment Palpatine/Sidious presents him with his new Red light saber and the rage becomes pure fury.
In that moment, Vader/Anakin is feeling such intense, raw emotions that his power is overwhelming and in an instant, he catches Palpatine by such surprise, and with such fury and raw power with that new Red light saber only serving as a reminder of the lives he has personally taken, that in an instant he, without a thought, cuts Sidious/Palpatine down.
I think that with that combination of rage turned fury, even self hatred over what he has done, who he has killed, that Vader/Anakin is simply Overwhelmed by a fury that he cannot contain. In that split second, he is flooded with such Crushing emotions, that he reaches his full potential of power and the force swells past the point that it even did on Mortis.
Without even being aware of it himself, Vader/Anakin becomes so powerful that in picosecond, too fast for Palpatine/Sidious to realize, as Palpatine/Sidious hands him the new Red light saber, he cuts an absolutely Unaware Palpatine/Sidious down instantaneously.
How long he can maintain that level of rage and power, that depends on what happens to Padme.
If somehow he can get her take her on a shuttle and calms down enough to demonstrate actual love for Padme, and she hangs on long enough for the best medical droids in what was the New Republic, with him at her side, holding her, can help her and the children are born, his full potential could simply be reached. At Mortis he nearly reached his full potential in being able to control both the Son and the Daughter at the same time. THAT, would simply not have been possible if Anakin had not been able to tap into the fullness of the power he could reach.
Even if Padme succumbs, after she names the children and kisses Anakin/Vader goodbye and tells him ‘Love and take care of our children.’, I think he still is able to reach, even maintain his full potential power. He would have find Holicrons to learn techniques, but he could easily find Palpatin/Sidious’ stash, as well as what is at the Jedi Temple.
Now, going forward how would he present in terms of which side of the force does he wield. I have theories, but I don’t really have anything to base them on beyond what I’ve just supposed. I think he becomes as close to what a grey Jedi would be what I believe he would resemble. He would still have the capacity to lose control and emotional rage and overwhelming passion or what have you and lash out with a controlled form of the dark side. Yet, at the same time, be able to touch, the fullness of the light side when he sees his children and they remind him of the love, he shared with Padme and the love he has for them.
I believe that there is a solid foundation, based on what you spoke of in the novelization of seeing all the dead separatists on Mustafar, his turmoil over having just killed Obi-Wan, and then rage that it was Palpatine/Sidious who sent him to do that errand. Compounded by what he had done to Padme, whether or not, she lives was clearly stuck in the Mind. This only occurred because that Palpatine/Sidious had forced him into going to Mustafar. As you said, from the novelization, Vader/Anakin had already committed himself to killing him anyway. In that moment Palpatine/Sidious congratulates him, handing him the new Red light saber, he is so overwhelmed by regret, sorrow, loss, rage, anger, fury; that just like on Mortis his power becomes overwhelming and in attosecond that he receives his new Red light saber, he absolutely cuts Palpatine/Sidious down.
If he catches Sidious/Palpatine by such surprise in Return of the Jedi, he ABSOLUTELY BLINDSIDES him on Mustafar‼️‼️
Anakin's story was so sad but that makes the redemption so sweet
The Emperor would have sensed Vader's intentions before he decided to kill him.
I've always thought of the force as a balance scale.
On one side, you have the Light side/Jedi, and the Dark side/Sith on the other.
When both sides are on, the scale is balanced. Remove the Light side; the scale tips toward the Dark and vice versa.
The only way to achieve balance in the force is by removing/destroying both the Jedi and the Sith simultaneously.
I find this interesting because there are a few instances where it seems like one of the Jedi (Ahsoka in Rebels when she faces Vader apart from the jedi hence her white lightsaber signifying a neutral color) and Rey at the end of Episode 9 after destroying Palpatine and buring her lightsaber she turns on her new yellow colored saber. Perhaps she would go on to establish a new order in the force that encompassed both the light and the dark sides but abandoning the ways of the Jedi and the Sith.
Technically, after Sidious died there are no more Sith in cannon, atleast right now. Meanwhile there are other Sith like beings running around. Personally I would love to see Sith and Rens join forces. Then have Jedi have to deal with both.
True, but the Sith had become a philosophy and order. Exar Kun and Uric were made Sith Lords by the Ghosts of other Sith.
@darthlazurus4382 I always wondered did Kylo technically become a Sith when he worked with Sidious?
@Jerel Boza
I wouldn't say so, he had darkside training but no real Sith. Ben was a pawn. In saying that, I could be wrong but this is how I see it if that makes sense.
That is one of my pet peeves. It is "CANON", not "CANNON". A CANNON is a big gun. People are becoming too lazy to spell.
@@shaydowsith348
Folk make mistakes. But it is easy tae confuse both words, as the pair of them sink ships.
At the time of Anakin’s duel with Obi Wan, he was powerful at fighting, but he had not yet learned what made Sidius truly formidable: his political machinations. Sure, he might have been able to kill him, but he would not have been able to hold the Galaxy together, because he hadn’t learned of all of Sidious’ plans and contingencies that he would learn in the ensuing years as Darth Vader. He probably would have burned hot, have had the whole galaxy turn against him, and left it in ruins.
You're saying this as if Mas Amedda Palpatine's political advisor didn't exist
Bro Anakin would sure learn of the political machinations from Mas and not to mention all the plans and contingencies that Sidious has and Mas would voluntarily hand all this over to Anakin and will save Padme and the galaxy would be his forever
@@DarthSebastian2001 Sure, it’s a possibility, assuming Mas Amedda wasn’t loyal to Palpatine to the point of dying for him. But there’s no way he would have saved Padme, since his turn to the dark side and his selfish attachment to her is basically what what killed her. Even if he hadn’t attacked her on Mustafar, she would eventually leave him for destroying the republic, which would anger him, and he probably would, at best keep her captive, and at worst attack her just like he did on Mustafar. Or she could escape. Either way Anakin wasn’t going to get a happy ending.
We need to give obiwan more credit for defeating Anakin on mustafar
If things did play out like this, Vader would have eventually attempted to kill Siddious, and Vader's arrogance would have helped in s short fight but the longer it could have gone it would lead to his down fall. Leading Siddious to rule for far longer than he ultimately did.
I think Anakin would've of learned all he could from Sidious and then kill.
I agree or Sidious would have known Anakin would try and could defeat him to where he may have run and bide him time to kill Anakin.
Him being more “powerful” is a moot point. He doesn’t view power in its proper context when it comes to Palpatine.
Anakin’s arrogance shines bright. He’s under the impression that Sidious is an easy out
Blade to blade we know that’s not true if the best of them couldn’t get him out.
And unlike a young Anakin Skywalker, Sidious is old and experienced, with tremendous foresight.
He had contingency plans lined up in case Anakin ever got out of line.
He probably had numerous ways to deal with Vader in case he ever got too big headed.
If Obiwan had joined his brother instead of fighting him they wouldve been unstoppable
Rots game was and still is goat. The genius idea of withholding scenes in the movie bonus footage for the game made it so worthwhile playing
I don't think that Anakin would have been able to defeat Sidious at that point, but thanks for including the old memory of Revenge Of The Sith for me! I miss that game!
If Padmé joined him I could see her be the mother, queen, and matriarch of the galaxy holding Anakin back from the depths.
If she refused and Anakin won (assuming she died) I think he’d do what you said and create an eternal empire ready for conquest rather than consolidating and ruling as he wished (slavery and the Hutts may have been the first casualty).
Anakin lost to Obi wan because he fully thought that he is better than he is. However, in Palpatine's case the thing would be different, because he knew how strong Palpatine is. No place to underestimate him. Anakin didn't underestimated Dooku and was able to kill him, but he lost to Obi wan because of his confidence...
I always thought this would be an interesting plot twist: Anakin succeeds in killing Obi-wan, and meets Sideous on the landing pad above the shores of Mustafar. Obi-wan's spirit stares down at his own corpse in disbelief, scarcely able to begin to process his own death at that moment. Yoda reaches out to him and instructs him how to live on as a face ghost, and that is why we see Obi-wan in A New Hope essentially ready to disappear at the moment Vader's lightsaber strikes him. He was a force ghost all along, and it works with the line that Vader says to him on the Death Star, "you should not have come back". In an ironic twist of fate, it is Obi-wan, not Anakin, who learns to defy death.
Meanwhile, Anakin reports to Sideous of his success in killing Obi-wan, blind to the imminent blindsiding attack of Sith lightning coming from Palpatine. The burns on Vader's body come not from the fires of Mustafar, but the intensity of Sideous's power. It is revealed that Palpatine never planned to have Anakin succeed him, he simply needed somebody powerful enough to pull of Order 66 and enforce his will under the new Empire. Anakin becomes warped and twisted by torture as a result of this betrayal, damaged beyond repair and trapped within a suit that torments him without end.
This fits with canon, as Vader warns Luke in RoTJ "you don't know the power of the dark side". He is a pawn and a prisoner of the Emperor himself, as he made the mistake of underestimating the dark side in his youth. His own son is at risk of the same fate he suffered, ultimately leading him to sacrifice himself to kill the Emperor. It also makes sense in the movies for Vader's operation within the empire; He kills officers at every opportunity out of resentment for his enslaved position. He is reckless with imperial resources despite clearly being far more intelligent of a commander and could be more efficient if he wanted to. He cares little for the Death Star and seems glad if anything that it was blown up. He is allowed to do these things freely, because no matter how he lashes out or what he does he cannot escape the Emperor's grasp and his rage will never be enough to avenge his betrayal at the hands of his former friend, father figure, and master.
what i'd like to see hearing this where Anakin "is not dead yet" and is still in conflict with Vader. is to have a moment like when (whoever he was then) and Obi Won are talking on the platform riding down the lava ... to have Obi Won do what i think is more in HIS character. to lower his weapon and listen to and reason with Anakin ... its like a split personality in Vader/Anakin and maybe his brother Obi Won helping bring him back to the light (FORGET the movies and plot armor) would set up a whole new set of cool directions the movies could have gone in
I believe Darth Vader would have challenged Darth Sidious, gotten his but kicked, but not permanently injured. Sidious said to Yoda that Vader would become more powerful than himself. He wanted Vader to become that powerful and he knew from Maul how dangerous over confidence could be. By humbling Vader then properly teaching him he would have eventually given the Empire to Vader so he could go play with his Sith Alchemy.
Sidious knew all of this about Anakin which was why he never got close until return of the jedi
Anakin: I have no further need of you, Darth Wrinkles!
Sidious: O RLY? (throws sand)
Anakin: I HATE YOU!!!
There is a comic book or books that talked about, as Padame gave birth Anakin was undergoing his transition into the cyborg he eventually becomes, Sidious used a dark side ability along the lines of force life transfer stealing her life to keep Anakin alive. if Anakin didn't get damaged then that would not have been necessary and she probably would have survived, heartbroken, but alive
The man barely knew a thing about Sidious's true power, yet still thought, "yeah, I can take him".
Someone brought up a good theory with Padme dying to me one time which to me makes more sense than just a broken heart. What if Sideous knew how to stop people from death but required someone else to die? A life for a life? So to stop Vader from dying, he used the ability to take Padme's life to save Vader and say it was his fault that Padme died. How would he have known she died if he wasn't with her when she died? Unless he took her life through the force. And then not mention how to use the ability ever again since there was no need to use it. To me this makes much more sense. It's probably a stretch but what are your thoughts?
That's actually what happened.
@@daddiikong1602 Really now? I'll be damned. 🤣
@@HikaritheGreat Yep
An even more interesting alt take on mustafar and what anakin's plans were..
Imagine if he had explained to obi wan what his plans were and managed to convince him to allow/join him in these plans. It was no mystery to Obi the Jedi council was failing them by this point and the sith were returning. After the reveal that Palpatine is Sidious, it would've been very evident that the galaxy would be in dire straits should this new empire of his not be put down quickly.
I think it's a good possibility that Obi wan could've taken the bait to join if Anakin had explained his intention and the idea of a galaxy without the sith or the jedi, together. A true organization of balance to bring order to chaos and justice where there is none.
That could be a super cool ending as well.
Anakin and Obi-Wan Post-Order 66 together would surely destroy Darth Sidious once and for all even Yoda could never do
6:38 well, if you go by the theory that sidious was using the dark side of the force to take padme's life force and give it to Vader, then she wouldn't have died.
That's my headcanon
Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus and Vader are so similar. Both went to the darkside for to try to save what they loved. Not to actually be "evil" such a fine line between dark and light side of the force.
Very much anti-Villains.
That’s what the apprentice always wants to do, but they have to find someone to replace them. We see in the films Dooku trying to replace himself with Obi Wan and Darth Vader with Luke.
Also a bit like Malgus as well as Valkorian perhaps? 🤔😎👍
As a kid in the 80s I always thought that Anakin received his injuries by taking on the emperor.
I mean Anakin's injuries could work both ways depending on the circumstances
This makes sense. It's possible he played double game. He lost on Mustafar because of his anger,lost for power and hatred. He got destroyed there,as you said. I don't think Anakin would bring balance. It would be strange and weird. Anakin couldn't destroyed Sidious. He wasn't ready. He had many years to learn. And even than.. Even when he was fully Vader. May the Force be with you too
Anakin was suffering from Delusions of Grandeur!
His Fear of loosing Padme was his undoing. He lost his mom. Being raised as a slave left him w/ major unresolved issues. As a Jedi youngling he needed therapy! 💔😡🤔😇💯
Palpatine/ The Emperor/ Darth Sidious knew this and played Anakin/ Vader to his own undoing.
You can’t manipulate a Sith. Evil dies from within. 💯
The only man capable of such feat is Darth Krayt. All heil Krayt 🏜️
Anakin/Darth Vader was never a true sith.
He was just a guy that was fed up of being controlled, belittled , put down & continuously disrespected.
All those things have bubbled up to the surface after years of pushing these feelings down & will turn anyone mad really 🤷🏾♂️.
He just wanted to live his own life & have his family by his side that’s pretty much it really.
In truth if force healing existed at this point in time then Anakin wouldn't waste his time with sidious.
Sidious would have known that Vader was eventually going to betray him. Sidious had already done this to Plagueis, and he knew that was Vader's destiny as well. Sidious was already planning for his own resurrection through the use of clones. He didn't care that Vader had planned to kill him; he himself had planned for, and expected, this outcome.
1:52 The real question is why was he so afraid of padame's death did she have a family history of complications or did the doctor they were seeing tell them that something was wrong
Wait true tho. He just lost his mind lmao no asking doctors shit
The difference between Anakin winning & Obi-wan winning is a split second of individual decision-making
Anakin was certainly strong enough to take on Sidious; what he lacked was judgment
so I think any outcome was possible but would have depended on Sidious’ judgment & Anakin’s luck
whereas the outcome we got depended on Anakin’s luck & Obi-wan’s judgment
You know for someone who isn't anakin anymore and Darth Vader is in control he keeps thinking like Anakin
If Anakin/Vader ever took over as Emperor, he would've defenitely tried to end slavery and, probably, the Hutts. He is that kind of person.
I thought that Anakin already knew that Sidious didn't know the way of keeping someone from dying. In the Chancellor's office, after he had pledged himself to his Darkside (Sidious's) teachings. No, I don't think Anakin was ready to kill his new master, because he hadn't learned anything there was about the Darkside. Plus, Sidious would wary of this happening. I think that the Darkside clouded Anakin's thoughts at that time.
The ps2 cinematic brings back so many memories
I'm not surprised, Anakin playing the fool and pretending Sidious was completely in control of his thoughts would have been normal in hindsight when thinking of how he always wanted to overthrow him while being Vader, and also how he was always thinking about his role as a Jedi when we see him talk to Padme about how disillusioned he is with how little good the Jedi do while being restricted, and how similarly the senate is just acting like an overinflated bureaucracy, at that moment it would probably be wise to do a 180 if anyone thought he was a himbo, since that shows he is conscious not only of his place in the galaxy but of being humble and careful enough not to be outspoken against the organizations his position represents.
And everything Jedi in origin tells of how devious and backstabbing the Sith are, so seeing it coming from a mile away wouldn't have been too surprising, his level of pokerface even while conflicted on the other hand, maybe oscar worthy xD, more so if he was seeing this coming from before Mace Windu's death (I'm convinced this is possible and he was just finally facing his feelings after that, or rather finally accepting he had no future following Sidious even though he needed him).
the ROTS video game alternate ending was amazing
As chapter V of Obi Wan TV serie showed us, Darth Vader still had too much to learn. I think his arrogance made him blind and at that moment, Sidious would still overcome Anakin. The Bad Batch is showing us how ingenious Sidious was. As Rex mentioned, always steps ahead of everyone.
If Anakin let the best of him get beaten by Obi Wan, I’m sure Palpatine would’ve slapped the shit out of him
How would Anakin take over without being seen as a traitor?
See me and my buddy created a dnd star wars type of game where we take this idea. Anakin decided instead of attacking when he jumps at obi wan to move around him and then grab him with the force and stab him through the back. Then after the loss of his wife and children he is filled with hate and grief. Hate for sidious and grief for his loved ones deaths. After there deaths he kills Sidious and installs a new empire. Instead of hunting down jedi he would find them and try to turn them in not then he'd kill them. Creating his own order of force users. After some time Anakin takes a load off and dissapears for awhile and leaves his apprentice in charge of things for now. The players can either play as jedi or new Imperial force users. In the end they can choose to join sides or kill eachother. If they join sides then they take down anakins new apprentice who is pretty much a new version of Starkiller you have to fight Anakin who is nearly unbeatable
Anakin getting to train his own son. Is something worth exploring.
I believe he wouldnt lose himself completely to the dark side. If he knew his children were alive. The piece of him that held the light still existed. I believe it was three parts shattered all at once. His masters betrayal, padme couldn't be saved and his childrens deaths. Saving even only one of these proved able to turn Darth Vader; eventually. (As Luke was able to do against the emperor.)
This would leave Anakin somewhere in the middle.
After he had a moment to breath and think after killing the Separatist leaders, he had to realize one thing: Wait, if Palpatine was Sidious this whole time, that means he was the leader of the Separatists as well as the Republic. Because we knew they were controlled by someone called Sidious. And they even confirmed it now while I was killing them. Palpatine is the one who orchestrated this entire war and he played us all like a cheap fiddle!" There is no way Anakin would still believe that Palpatine was his friend as he was deluded to think before, after such a massive lie and manipulation scheme was revealed.
On the other hand though, I don't believe it would be possible for him to overthrow the Emperor. Maybe he'd get lucky and kill him. But becoming a Sith master after killing his own master when there are only two, that's the easy part. Because nobody else is here to contest you. The problem is, you don't automatically become Emperor when you kill Emperor. Especially during the first formative years of the Empire. The Republic was only slowly transitioning into the Empire. But it wasn't nowhere near the full Empire yet. There were still many political power plays and pretense of democracy. Anakin was a lot of things, but not a politician, especially not the crony corrupted kind that would be needed to take control of the entire Empire. Not from his position, that's for sure. Even if he somehow magically got all the skills and knowledge of politics like Palpatine, he would not be able to take over after simply killing Palpatine. He would have to prepare some circumstances, he would have to wait for appropriate moment when things calm down, he would have to plot... Just stabbing the guy in charge doesn't make you the ruler of the entire galaxy.
And the fact that the Empire was still pretty much like the Republic can be seen in the beginning of New Hope. When Vader arrives at the moff meeting, he tells them that the Emperor dissolved Senate. And the moffs don't want to believe it. Just imagine that. Senate kept functioning like 18 years after Palpatine declared himself the Emperor, and the highest of high Empire officers didn't think Emperor had the authority to remove it. So do you really think that Vader would have a chance to take over politically? No way. At least not in the beginning, until the system became completely and utterly autocratic.
If anakin didn’t lose his body on mustafar he 100% would have been strong enough to defeat the emperor whenever he wanted too.
Firstly God I wish they'd somehow remaster that episode 3 game (I know it's never going to happen but damn.)
What I think would happen is something similar to what happened in the game, barring one thing I think Anakin personally would of taken Kenobi's lightsaber to use in his bleeding ritual, and after becoming fully indoctrinated into the Sith philosophy only then would he kill Palpatine or try to as The Emperor would be well versed in the rule of two and knew Anakin would one day come for him.
Anakin was quickly approaching his potential on Mustafar. The book says he could feel his power growing, that combined with the fact that Lucas has stated at full potential Anakin is twice as powerful as Sidious means Anakin would 1000% defeat Sidious. That puts Anakin at world eating status
Interesting to contemplate.
Before I continue, I must note that I detest villains as either repulsive or pathetic. Till Lord Vader (David Prowse). Even then, I knew what he was.
Mr. Lucas created Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid) expressly to serve as a counterpoint to Lord Vader (David Prowse, Hayden Christensen), to illustrate that the latter in actuality had felt conflicted about his actions--this to give rise to a path to a supposed redemption.
In the initial trilogy, we had no impression of this in Vader; he was uncompromisingly evil, implacably malevolent, and terrifyingly formidable. In manifesting these, he developed a deeply grim cache that ironically made him compelling.
Mr. Lucas persisted in his vision for this character as torn and conflicted, toward an eventual return. (The wholesale massacre of Yoda's Younglings frankly made that utterly impossible.)
I argue that this is a mistake, remaking of the greatest cinematic villain of all time a bitter, petulant crybaby--even to a tear from a Sith-yellowed eye.
However, it is his story to tell.
Amazing!
Amazing
Old age and treachery will always beat youth and enthusiasm.
Palps would have eaten his lunch. (Even earlier than all the other times he smacked Vader down)
I have the original novel but I don't think some of the info you have is correct about Anakin. Dooku was an error when I said Maul cut Anakin's arm off I'm sure that was a mistake as we both know Tyrannus is Dooku. Dooku wanted to create an army of force sensitives. I love your vids and yes he planned on gaining more knowledge from Sidious then when the time was right he would kill him. He was naive but knew Sidious caused him lots of bs w the war etc lying to him being he was the Sith Lord.
I know Anakin woulda destroyed Sidious but as George says on the Original DVD bonus features plus in the many books on the making of Ep 3. "Anakin was the chosen 1 even when he is Darth Vader he was still the chosen one" -George Lucas. Keep up the good work. Thank you for your work Star Wars Theory & you & many others are awesome.
Ngl the thumbnail made me think this was an ASMR video for a bit
I actually remember playing that game and that alternate ending....but I always thought it was wierd they dont truly dive into that part of the story....I introduced. Y wife to star wars and after watching like 3 or 4 times with me she cane to tge same realization most star wars fans come to in the movies.....she asked like after Anakin finds out Palpatine was behind everything why wasnt he mad at him for everything.... and I always say I think he did in his heart of hearts but they dont do a good job of showing it on film....thank you for this video
For me, the question of Anakin is bigger than finding culprits or saviors, victims or executioners. All played a role that culminated in the rise of the Empire. I think that sometimes the affection we have or feel for Anakin makes us fantasize that perhaps under more favorable conditions, he might choose better paths. We find it difficult to accept decisions that are different from what we would like. In my opinion, Anakin made a choice. He has always been endowed with free will. All of his past, sufferings, fears and insecurities explain how and why he decided on the path of the Sith. That didn't make him a victim. Just as Obi Wan or the Jedi Council are not to blame for what Anakin has become by choice. Qui Gon isn't Anakin's savior either. Sidious didn't turn Anakin into Vader. He awakened a facet of Anakin's personality. Anakin himself mentions that Darth Vader killed Anakin. The complexity of life lies in how a being balances his qualities and weaknesses in the face of challenges and pain, how he overcomes fears and insecurities, how he makes his choices and uses his free will. The Empire's dominance over the galaxy was the result of the choice of an entire collectivity. And thus the Rebel Alliance was formed. I like Anakin with all the complexity and choices he made. The Star Wars Expanded Universe has shown us this a lot. I love The Bad Batch, Andor, Obi Wan and everything else that has been released even in books and comics. That's my take on Anakin's choices.
Anakin Skywalker,, Darth Vader, my best favorite idol,, idoL 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Anakin was too drunk on his connection to the DS. I think Palpatine would have easily stopped him.
At best his raw power would match sidious at that moment but because of his superior skills sidious would win. He needed more training in both the lightsaber or the force to defeat sidious
I think with the new canon considered, I think Sidious planned to take Anakin's body. The same way he planned to take Luke's.
Even if Anakin had destroyed Obi-Wan and left Palpatine alive long enough to learn power over death, I suspect Palpatine would have pulled the strings to kill Padme anyway to cement Vader's loyalty and his position in the dark side.
Aniken would have had his ass kicked if he attempted to take on Sidious. Heed prolly try and learn all he could in a short amount of time and than do it, only realizing that sidious is a god sith and needed help to do so…. Which he thought he was finally getting with Luke. Didn’t Vader tell Luke they could defeat him together? The star killer idea? I really hope we see Ashoka and Vader 1 more time with Vader asking her to join him and her turning him down.
Seeing Anakin destroy Sidious would require considerable manipulation on a level that even Sidious himself couldn't image. Which would be tough enough all on it's own. Sidious was an incredibly manipulative person like all true Sith Lords.
Over confidence, fear,and arrogance is what led to his downfall. I acknowledge that Anakin Skywalker is power with the force. But,it doesn't mean that he's unbeatable. Having power is one thing....when you lack discipline and experience. All that power is worthless,it will not shield you from what's to come. Obi-wan defeats him because of discipline and experience. During their,obi-wan kept a level head and stayed calm. Anakin the other hand press on with rage and unfocused. He played into obi-wans's hand. Obi-Wan was 10 steps ahead of him from the beginning....He thought that with power alone that he would defeat his former Master.
if anakin didnt lose to kenobi he would be atleast twice as strong as we knew him as and wouldnt have the weakness of his suit. he would clap sidius in seconds
What is the song use in the vidéo ?
Sith, the Apprentice killing off his Master? Ohhh how Original! 😂🤣
At this point in time he would have struggled with Sidious I think. No-one is surely gonna say he could beat Yoda here and Sidious was able to match the Jedi Grandmaster in most areas. Anakin killing Obi-Wan would have boosted his ego but he's still Anakin here. It would have caused him much more pain than he expected and that would then be directed into anger and would fuel his power greatly. Still, I think he would learn what he could from Sidious insofar as he originally planned to and by the time he has learned, Sidious would be no match for his power as the Chosen One.
.
Frankly though, I think Sidious knew this or at least suspected it and so wither wouldn't give Anakin the secret while Padmé was alive, even if he discovered it. He'd be signing his own death warrant. With all that said, a fully intact Anakin dealing with Padmé's death isn't something that Sidious wants either. Remember that in the RotS novelization and comic, we see that Vader actually attacks Sidious with the Force in his moment of rage as well. He tosses the Emperor back but his recent wounds have left him unable to tap a large portion of his power in that moment and so after his initial burst of rage, he lacks the strength to touch Palpatine with the force again. If that was a fully powered Anakin, in full command of his rage and without the nerfs he suffered from losing all his limbs, he might well have killed the Emperor there and then - after all Anakin would be able to cent all of his pain and guilt and rage onto the Emperor for everything that had happened all so that his wife would die anyway. If we're considering extended canon as well, Anakin in the Clone Wars was able to handle the Son and the Daughter in a moment of intense emotion (albeit with their location amping him) but when if you take the power of say... the Son.... and then make it 100 times less, chances are it's still enough raw power to slap Palpatine.
.
Anakin could have taken Sidious down this early if he got the jump on him or under specific circumstances (like having Padmé die anyway even after he'd won and everything had gone hownit was supposed to). However, the moment Anakin learns enough that he doesn't feel he needs Sidious anymore, Palpatine is a dead man. Thing is, Palpatine kinda wants Padmé alive if Anakin wins to keep him stable enough that he doesn't lose it and go nuclear on everyone (including the Emperor who I'm SURE is aware that Anakin would blame him). That then however raises the issue for the Emperor of Anakin's vision. If Padmé survives Mustapha and childbirth, then Anakin's fears are irrelevant now and he will have prevented Padmé's death. Sidious will likely play it off as the Force rewarding him for fulfilling his destiny but again, what's to stop Anakin from killing Palpatine then?
.
Overall it's just a bad time for Sidious if Anakin beats Obi-Wan. Either Padmé dies and Anakin loses it, taking it out o n the Emperor and likely killing him - if not making a deal with him or something like Sidious bargaining powers of resurrection etc. Or, Padmé lives. This is terrible for Sidious because Padmé is obviously not evil and she would have Anakin's ear while Sidious' influence would be limited. He might even be forced to continue to play his role as Palpatine and keep up the narrative of the Jedi betrayal and all that just for her sake and that kind of thing would infuriate Sidious. I'm sure he'd try and have some "accident or something" to happen to her but honestly, by the time things progress to that point, Anakin might just end up killing the Emperor anyway - especially of he's kept up yuis training and likely RADICAL power growth.
Anakin was ready to turn on palpatine hours after pledging his undying allegiance to him 😂 idk why I find that so funny
This gives another understanding as to why Anakin hates obiwan so much. Obi litterally took away his chances at overthrowing sidious, cutting his limbs, and losing a crap load of midichlorians, weakening him. Vader will forever be a slave to Palpatine till almost the end. In a twisted tragic change of events, palpatine then became vaders only “friend” who “cared” for him like with Anakin.
Vader has a twisted idea of Obi-Wan in general. He legit think OBI-WAN betrayed him.
@@seto_kaiba_ well the dude was sleepless when coming to the conclusion padme was cheating with obi wan and cheating is pretty much betrayal
@@B3an01 George Lucas did originally want Anakin to suspect that obi wan and Padme were having an affair but decided against it bc it was too cliche of a story, so he kept it out and pushed the fact that obi wan and Padme were like brother and sister and Obiwan only true love was Satine Kryz. Anakin never suspected cheating, just that Obiwan turned her against him by having her not join in his dark plans, as well as Obiwan himself not joining him and supporting the Jedi that always hurt and belittled Anakin and kept him from saving his wife and mother. Among other things as well. I’m rlly glad Lucas made that decision. It gives a different depth and tragicness to the story. Anakin killing his wife from blind rage not over the fact that she cheated, but because he KNEW she loved him so much but yet didn’t join him. That was his sense of betrayal. Because he himself would do ANYTHING for his loved ones. And to see they weren’t doing the same broke him even further.
@@buiscuitz oh well you could still see it as obi wan manipulating padme to go against anakin in his eyes hence why anakin thinks obi wan betrayed him
@@B3an01 Thats very true. Obi wan begs Padme to tell him where Anakin is bc he must be “stopped”. A new Starwars watcher could simply view this as that he was doing a heroic thing and all evil must be vanquished. But looking deeper, theres no clear line between bad and good. The jedi aint that much better than the sith. Obiwan could have given Anakin a chance and tried to sympathize with him and show compassion to this “ tantrum” he was basically showing. But instead got Padme to tell him where he is so he could kill him bc there was “basically no hope” for him. When he himself and the jedi are part of the reason he even went down that dark path. He had some power to try and bring him back. He needed his master more than ever in that moment and Obi-wan truly did abandon and betray him. And we’re not even talking abt betraying him by not joining the sith. He betrayed him as a master, as a person who was supposed to be like his father figure and help him through these explosion of feelings he cant control that was caused by obi wan and others.
so ya obi wan definitely betrayed him in a way
Number one Sith all time king Darth plagues
Same I agree
you should do a vid on asokas thoughts of anikin being the chosen one and being trained by him etc
The only problem with that ending is that sith aren't given their lightsabers
To answer the question, he would have fell to Palpatine the same as he fell to Obi Wan. He was to arrogant to realize it. The killing part is that Palpatine would have done him worse than Obi Wan.
I believe in the prophecy; Anakin would end both orders. But do you think he would strive to rule the galaxy? Why? He'd never follow that fool Sidious' ambition. No. The power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force. I believe he would have taken on a deep study of all aspects of the newly balanced Force and become a Force Buddah, living out the rest of his days in wooden temples playing with his children.
his millions of children, brought to us by the Force and Kaminoan technology.
I don't know. ... Padme would have still died, but Vader would have the twins as a constant reminder of her & Anakin. ... Heck, if he was there for Padme's death & the birth - Who knows if he'd even remain Vader? ... Is an important part to view upon at the very least.
This could be considered part of the idea from the PlayStation 2 game of SW: Revenge of the Sith in the what if scenario.
And I also believe that this was even explained in the comic book version of Darth Vader during his trial.
Luke fulfilled what Anakin wanted to be
He is a Jedi, like his father before him.
I love playing the game to get this ending
To destroy evil one must understand it and conquer it
They need to make a what if movie