One thing we can all agree on, is the importance of high quality sleep and blood work, so I chose todays sponsors accordingly: 🛌 Use my Eight Sleep code "MPMD" for $200 off the Pod 4, or $350 off the Pod 4 Ultra: www.eightsleep.com/moreplatesmoredates/ ⚕ Use code "MPMD" to get 10% off my go-to "Complete Panel" blood test, with a lab review included to interpret the results: marekhealth.com/mpmd Feels good to be back. More podcasts and videos incoming! ------------ 🕑 Time Stamps: 0:00:00 - 0:00:50 - Introduction 0:00:50 - 0:05:32 - Why Paul Saladino Stopped The Carnivore Diet After 2 Years 0:05:32 - 0:08:41 - Is There Ever A Point Of Doing A Keto Diet? 0:08:41 - 0:11:21 - Why Paul Reached Out To Me To Do A Second Podcast After Seeing Me Speak With Peter Attia 0:11:21 - 0:17:36 - What Actually Causes Atherosclerosis? Paul’s Take On The Traditional Hypothesis 0:17:36 - 0:22:17 - Should We Ignore High LDL-C Or APOB? 0:22:17 - 0:25:05 - Paul Describes How Some Studies Suggest That Those With Higher HDL-C Levels May Be Less Likely To Get Atherosclerosis Despite Having High LDL-C Levels 0:25:05 - 0:25:26 - Paul’s Perspective On Why Many Doctors Aren’t Educating Their Patients About Metabolic Health 0:25:26 - 0:33:41 - "Ignore Nutrition Just Focus On Exercise" 0:33:41 - 0:37:55 - Sponsor: Eight Sleep 0:37:55 - 0:39:02 - The Most Important Lab Tests For Avoiding Atherosclerosis 0:39:02 - 0:42:53 - Is It Possible To Get Atherosclerosis If You Have A Fasting Insulin Of 3 uIU/mL Or Less? 0:42:53 - 0:46:27 - Familial Hypercholesterolemia (FH) And Why It’s A Phenotypic Diagnosis, Not A Genotypic Diagnosis 0:46:27 - 0:49:41 - What Happens When You Replace Saturated Fat With Linoleic Acid? 0:49:41 - 0:52:38 - How A Pure Carnivore Diet Affects Thyroid Metabolism 0:52:38 - 0:56:45 - Can Someone On A Keto Diet Long-Term Develop Atherosclerosis Despite Having A Low Fasting Insulin? Dave Feldman’s Lean Mass Hyper-Responder Study 0:56:45 - 1:00:56 - How Paul’s Perspective Differs From Dave Feldman and Shawn Baker • The Baseline Data From The LMHR Study Paul Mentioned: twitter.com/realDaveFeldman/status/1733387107610063195 1:00:56 - 1:03:55 - What Is APOB And LP(a)? 1:03:55 - 1:06:44 - Sponsor: Marek Health 1:06:44 - 1:10:21 - How Long It Takes For Plaque To Develop And Show On A CT Angiogram 1:10:21 - 1:13:46 - Why Paul Uses Proxy Biomarkers In Atherosclerosis Data Analysis To Discern Insulin Sensitivity 1:13:46 - 1:18:14 - Does Paul Think It Is Ever Justified To Take Lipid Lowering Medication To Avoid Atherosclerosis? 1:18:14 - 1:20:13 - How Should You Track If You Are Developing Atherosclerosis? 1:20:13 - 1:45:27 - Lipid Lowering Medication Risk-Reward Analysis. Will Lowering LDL-C Impair Quality Of Life, Regardless Of The Medication Used? Do Adolescents With Hypofunctioning PCSK9 And Very Low APOB Have Impaired Development Cognitively Or Structurally? 1:45:27 - 1:47:39 - If You Don’t Lower APOB But Want To Track Plaque Accumulation, Is The Dose Of Radiation From A CT Angiogram Concerning? 1:47:39 - 1:56:45 -Why Certain Tribes Have Lower Rates Of Cardiovascular Disease Than The Average Person. Should Or Shouldn’t We Copy What They’re Doing? 1:56:45 - 2:16:17 - The Lowest Hanging Fruit For Avoiding Atherosclerosis And Evaluating Your Risk ------------
You do not need any high tech device for great quality sleep lol. Do not buy this. Focus on what we have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years- not this bs
It was a good convo. Remember Socrates said there is nothing better than leaving a conversation having been refuted. I won’t go as far to say you were refuted but I think derek did raise a lot of good points objections and this can only make you grow more, as you mentioned. Appreciate you mate, feeling great on animal based :)
@@connorgray2896 I was actually surprised at the end when Derek dicussed a possible scenario of a perfectly healthy individual with high ApoB and supplementing with the latest and greatest lipid-lowering drugs. I think the obvious refute would be: 1. A healthy individual should always strive to avoid pharmaceutical drugs. All drugs have side effects, and if ApoB alone is bothering you, add some carbs to lower it. No need for drugs. The mere thought of taking drugs as part of a healthy lifestyle is distorted. 2. Many of these lipid-lowering drug outcomes only mention CVD mortality and fail to mention all-cause mortality. The reason being they don’t improve it. So you’re less likely to die of a heart attack talking these drugs, but you’d still die at the same predicted age from something else. These drugs do not work as most people think. 3. The lipid guidelines, the drug RCT’s and outcomes are of course all sponsored by big pharma, and you should be very wary of that. You cannot trust the reported data as-is.
Derek really asks great questions. Even tho i don't agree fully with stuff u say Paul (i disagree with quite some), I think u can have very high quality debates defending your points and i don't think your opinion is as contraversal as a diet that u do acording to that opinion. Even tho you are contraversial figure, I dont see you even near the pseudoscientific team foil, where some people try to fit u. I think u should do less influencer type of content where you sometimes sound pseudoscientific and do more of long debates and videos like this one. Great work both of you💪💪
@@gggXIIIHe's not controversial, he is promoting a balanced, non-extreme and sustainable diet that excludes all processed and harmful foods. He is exposing that sugar is not bad for you, while at the same time emphasizing that meat and animal foods are the healthiest and most nutritious. In other words, he's not joining one of the diet cults - the system wants the cults to argue with each other forever and never reach the truth. IMO Paul it near the truth and so he's being labeled controversial to throw the peasants off the scent.
Derek, please start hosting debates. It is the only way people that disagree but cannot sit down to talk can do it. The respect they have for you makes it doable
So, uh, in practical use let me see if I got this right: 1.) Don't be overweight 2.) Do cardiovascular exercise and lift weights 3.) avoid excess processed sugar 4.) eat a varied diet that doesn't completely eliminate any macro or micro. 5.) Past a certain age get a test from doctor to see how much plaque you got going on. Did I leave anything out?
@@blackpalacemusicplant based? Bro have you not been tuning into Paul or Derek😭? That’s one of the least efficient ways to do anything you’re gonna need to supplement, also bioavailability is a lot lower on a plant based diet
Heart health is one thing with this diet, but Kidney and liver health is also what I’m looking at. Whatever is the best diet for my organs is what im doing. Whether fruit+meat, or mediterranean, idc, I just don’t want to die for a dumb reason
This is why Paul is outspoken about the benefits of insulin and what the spikes actually do for your kidney function. Keto and carnivore people skip and bullshit this factual information from Paul
@@redpillthinking6043 not by much that is a fact, so much more subdued than an actual carbohydrate of which his choices of raw milk and fruit are so ridiculously low on the spectrum I’m amazed he gets so much flack
I'm getting info from this so this isn't a dig on it as a whole, but it seemed hard to follow because you and Paul bounced around trying to find common ground in different areas. The conversation in general had a back and forth feel to it. Did you both have an outline for the show? If you need someone to Google info on the side during podcasts I could be available. Regardless, love what you do here and for doing the Marek thing. I love that Paul keeps trying. We need people to be fringe to find the limits of what we know so we can gather more info and make more informed decisions in the future. Cheers!
True but I do feel the very last segment of the podcast was kind of a saving grace after they got off that specific back n forth and had time to process what the other person was trying to get it at they were able to tie it together a lot better, hope every one watches the whole thing and doesn't miss that part. At the end of the day we just need way more conversations held with both sides of the community, that's one thing I respect about Paul he has always tried/is willing to talk to anyone on air about the topic. Really wish Peter Attia would agree to do a show with both him and Derek so there isn't this kind of proxy debate where its hard to get super granular because of not knowing every little detail about what the other person actually believes/advocates for. That's the best outcome for us the viewers who just want to learn.
This is one of the best examples of a constructive, healthy, respectful debate/discussion. It’s also one of the most meaningful discussions for people living - or trying to live - in 2024.
I don't have a fear of death, but at the same time, I'm not trying to speed up the process. Accepting the fact that death is simply part of life, its not so bad. Focus on living rather than the inevitable outcome. Take care of yourself and your loved ones and just enjoy the process as best you can. That's my outlook at any rate. Cheers!
Thanks for the pod! Love both you guys, learn so much all the time. Great to hear from someone whose continually growing in their views and beliefs. It’s on the listeners to evaluate and discern what would work best for themselves, in their own life. Dude is just talking about his journey and how his beliefs have evolved, he’s not responsible for your own choices.
@@Louis-qo7tf Fiber is indigestible. Veggies have non-ideal forms of many nutrients that the body often can't deal with so easily compared to the animal food counterparts. There are also at times anti-nutrients and oxalates. Grains cause alot of people issues including Paul. But if they work for you, then by all means (grains).
@@4DTravelr fibers is great for digestion, good bacteria’s eat fibers therefore your gut is healthy. It also slow down digestion, there lowers blood sugars spikes
Good interview. I respect Paul's ability to interpret studies and share his knowledge about his health journey. People should be willing to put the time and effort into understanding their own personal health.
I will never understand what's controversial about eating fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. Diets like carnivore completely miss one of the biggest advantages humans have - we're opportunistic eaters. Not saying you should eat twinkies, but cavemen probably would kill (you) for them.
Well, I think Joe Rogan, Paul, and others have said that they have immune issues. Most people don't have issues eating rice or bread, for that matter. This helps a lot of people who have food allergies would be my opinion. I think people saw that it helps with fat loss, and people went on making careers out of it (liver king). Even Derek eats meat with carbs
@@iiam2214 My issue with any 'fad diet' is the key component that they all use to promote weight loss is almost always cutting out junk food. If you're allergic to say, rice or grain, or whatever, that's a valid reason. It's when people who say they're on the keto diet, ignore that it's made as a treatment for children with epilepsy, where the kids will literally drink heavy cream as part of their dinner, and instead cut out junk food.
@@iiam2214 here was my experience. I struggled with my weight my entire life and it ruined my childhood and school/college years. When I stopped eating carbs and all the weight just fell off, without even exercising, it was easy to justify thinking carbs were the enemy.
Save yourself some time: Derek believes that leveraging pharma in addition to a healthy lifestyle is worth the potential side effect profile, Paul does not.
I'm just going to throw this out there and say it. If someone uses a lot of "big" words, a lot of industry words (combo with the big words), talks fast, and at the end of a 2 hour conversation you still don't understand the claim or what's going on... you're probably being scammed. Or at the very least, you should be very skeptical of them. Or a combination of both.
99% of people that cannot or choose not express their ideas in simple ways should be looked at with scrutiny. The last 1% are just the super autismo geniuses.
I agree 1000%. The guy says about 500 words a second, and uses so many abbreviations and complex phrases it’s hard to keep track of him. At least to the average person. I feel like he keeps moving at an insane pace, so no one can actually follow what he is saying.
When I saw saladino had a smoothie named after him at Erewhon I was like shit. He’s more famous than I thought. I do feel great on his diet though. I did add in the “grey area” rice though and loving it the last couple of days. Feeling a lot stronger in BJJ.
Derek first of all thank you for doing this interview. Having said that, perhaps you will watch the video again and learn from it as far as interviewing techniques go. People know you have some knowledge of things but as someone who is not on any of these band wagons and only saw Saladino for the first time this week in a different video I have to say. Allow your guest to answer, don’t browbeat (bully) people into answering you. I didn’t look at all the comments here but it’s almost as if people are punishing this guy for having a change of opinion. This is science, it changes continually because scientists are constantly trying to prove/ disprove theories, sometimes their very own. It’s how we learn and evolve and improve. We as humans change continually not in a fickle flip flopper manner, but we learn adapt and or change. I get that that’s what saladino did. Wrote a book had a lot of people buy it and follow him and then he changed course. Understandably some people are pissed. Did he intentionally try to mislead people? I really don’t think so. But a mob never cares about such details once they get riled up. They want blood. what this clearly shows me is that the medical and health care industry will never change their tune because if they ever say “oh no we were wrong about xyz”, there will be a bunch of people at the ready to sue and act like Derek but on a much more massive scale . The message I got here is, when you make a mistake or take a wrong turn, don’t Tell anyone, let them continue to be misled bc if you have some integrity and admit you are human and as such made a mistake on something, You will be an outcast people will just drag you through the mud to the death. Saladino, kudos to you for coming on, Derek good luck with your lab testing company and wealth of knowledge. Don’t over talk people don’t cut them off, allow them to finish their thought, you are the one who asked the question. It’s actually not annoying it’s rude. I got through a lot, 1 hour 23 minutes I can’t listen to anymore of it. Guys listen to your body. Both these guys do some good but the undertone of this discussion was pure hostility. At one point I expected Derek to pull off his shirt beat his chest and say “I got you!! I know much more than you Paul Saladino, you fraud!”. It’s there in the skeptical form of his entire interrogation. That’s what it really was. Shame shame shame.
Atherosclerosis starts with lesions on the walls of arteries. Inflammation, poor metabolic health are probably main causes to this dysfunction . HBP, diabetes , insulin issues all are major contributors causing endothelial damage …. It seems focusing or treating the causes of the lesions is ideal to long term health. The body repairs lesions using cholesterol. The focus ( fundamentally) has been on ldl levels , higher being bad. I’ve yet to see an explanation that if you have a lesion , the person with an ldl of 150, vs 70, would send more cholesterol to the lesion for repair ( causing more “clogging”) vs the person ldl of 70? Thus the idea that “lower” = less clogging….. one would think the body sends just enough to repair the lesion whether the ldl was 150 or 70 ( or aboB being higher versus lower ). The idea that lowering ldl (apob) via pharmaceuticals stops/minimizes the repair of lesions ( microtears) formation and thus the level of “clogging” due to other causes of inflammation seems confusing. In a perfect world with no endothelial damage , does it even matter what your ldl level is ?
Risk factors for heart disease are smoking, drinking, saturated fat, trans fats, refined sugar etc. they damage the tight junctions of the endothelial cell wall in your arteries. This is because they are inflammatory products. Once the tight junctions are permeable then the body has endothelial dysfunction. However the nail in the coffin IS, exogenous LDL particles, the more you eat the more likely they are to oxidise within your arterial wall. Once they are trapped they never get out. Macrophages see them as foreign bodies and engulf the lipids, they begin to expand as foam cells until they finally explode. The internal lipids are further spread, more macrophages then arrive and see more foreign oxidise bodies and the cycle continues trying to engulf them. These lipids continue to become trapped unless you reduce the exogenous intake. Calcium and phosphates in the blood harden theses lipids and that is what atherosclerosis is, our number one killer. So there are risk factors like smoking etc etc but NO LDL DOES CAUSE HEART DISEASE, it is the number one critical risk factor. To answer your question though, you will still have atherosclerosis from high exogenous LDL, even without the risk factors, the critical risk factor is LDL
Our body produces its own cholesterol and we don’t need consume exogenous cholesterol to meet our needs. This is why carnivore is a fad and whole food plant based diets are not, a nutritionally complete plant based diet will always have better health outcomes than omnivores and especially carnivores assuming it’s whole foods and all macro and micro nutrients including amino acids are accounted for, high fibre, more variety, lower rates of cancer, heart disease and diabetes etc
@@LozwaveOur body produces its own carbohydrates and we don't need to consume exogenous carbohydrates to meet our needs. This is why modern agricultural diets are a meme and our ancestral dietary niche of carnivory is not. A meat based diet is nutritionally complete whilst plant based diets are lacking, thus why the majority those who try veganism quit in a couple years with the majority of those who quit citing health problems as the reason. More fiber is just more poo and gas, the rest are associative memes that don't even include carnivorous cohorts, not to mention the lack of scientific rigour in these associative studies
While I appreciate Saladino promoting some of the bioenergetic ideas it would be nice to see someone at Mikes level of understanding explaining why carbs can be very important. Saladino doesn't seem to be operating at a high level of understanding on the subject.
I find these fad diets like carnivore or vegan or keto absolutely ridiculous. Truth is, the standard American diet is so bad, that any of these fad diets will be an improvement. However, earlier generations could live perfectly healthy by combining meat with veggies , carbs with fat, etc just find the balance and eat less and do sports. There is no need to deprive onself from anything as long as its with moderation
Vegan diet isn’t a fad diet, it’s a philosophical approach to an eating pattern, there is no one vegan diet or pattern. But other than that I do also dislike the fad diet approach to carnivore and keto and find it dangerous
it’s wild that this comes out at this time because like 2 and a half weeks ago i started watching Saladino’s stuff and taking it serious than before because i used to think he was a quack but im 100% on board now from thinking about it logically ive been on animal based for over 2 weeks and have felt 100 times better
Been on it a bit over a year. Just remember not to skimp out on the bone broth for collagens, and liver for all the other vitamins as well as your fruits!
Love that you two could sit down and speak through the nuances of nutrition and exercise! Sort of weird that Dr. Saladino was trying to paint the story that Dr. Attia only focuses on exercise. Regardless, glad you two were able to get over that hurdle and host a beneficial, public, open discussion on the rapidly evolving and complex field of metabolic health. Would be great to see more podcasts like this!
Derek - I think one thing to talk to regarding the carnivore diet is the lack of fiber. Studies have been showing that colon cancer, specifically amongst young men is doubling (the same young men influenced by bodybuilding culture and carnivore culture), is sky high and a lack of veggies/legumes/grains is a big reason for this.
Fiber as a preventative measure for colon cancer only has utility in a carb laden diet. This is because the fiber is a substrate for gut bacteria to create butyrate. The butyrate is then converted to beta hydroxy butyrate in the colonocytes before it's any use. In the absence of dietary carbohydrate this beta hydroxy butyrate is supplied to the colonocytes endogenously
Derek came across to me as nit-picky and pointed in his questioning. Really good conversation between two highly-informed individuals but not sure why Derek is so pushy on certain things. Paul isn’t the knower of all and I appreciate whenever he straight up admits; “I don’t know!”. He is authentic and unapologetically passionate about what he believes. Probably also why he speaks so fast. His brain is like on crack with all this information. My practical takeaway: “YOU will be your best investigator into what you need to be the healthiest you possible in this life. Pay attention to how you feel first, look second, then think about digging into your bloodwork and hormonal profile and beyond. It’s pretty clear that Paul believes in the power of what humans can do for themselves naturally. Nothing wrong with the notion that drug intervention should be the exception, not the rule. Thanks for the conversation Derek and Paul!
Derek was being a little nit- picky but for a good reason, Paul is going against mountains of evidence especially on overblowing the side effects of modern Lipid lowering drugs. Derek's whole point was trying to understand why Paul thinks that lowering your apob with modern drugs is not worth it even though all the data points in the direction that it lowers your mortality and has very little side effects. Saladino did not answer the question or site studys on exactly how it is actually bad to lower apob which made derek ask it over and over again.
The standard American diet is full of seed oils, and most of MD influencers don't think that is a problem and only advise to "eath healthy" and exercise. But if what paul is claiming about seed oils and metabolic disfunction is true, his argument that no body of main stream MDs advise to fix metabolic disease/insulin resistance with dieting (stopping seed oil intake) is valid.
@@august4633 I did not defend his views, I only said his argument is valid because Derek didn't get hist point. On the contrary of pseudoscience, there are evidences that high rates of n6 polyunsaturated fats disrupts mitochondrial functions, which the standard American diet is full of.
“Seed oil” is the new “demon food”, before that it was just “carbs” if you ask vegan it would be any animal based product. It’s all nonsense, nothing bad would happen to your body if you consume seed oils, the issue with seed oils is that they are just low in useful stuff while rich in calories. Just like most “unhealthy” food it really comes down to too many calories for too little micronutrients. Because of that you end up over feeding and gaining weight while still lacking sufficient fiber, minerals and vitamins.
Saladino was very defensive, lol. I'm glad y'all were able to work through that and come to an understanding and overall have a great discussion. I know he gets ragged on often, so its to be expected. You asked some tough questions for the sake of understanding as well as to help us understand and I appreciate you for that, Derek. For what it's worth, Saladino, my perspective is much more similar to yours as I believe carnivore is a tool that should be used to figure out what works best for each of us on an individual level. I believe a food journal is the key to determining what is the proper diet for each of us while using the carnivore style diet to heal as well as create a clean foundation from which to test various plants (veg/fruit) for side effects while notating how our bodies react to them. This will give us a great diet plan to follow that suits our needs, allowing everyone to drop the dogmatic approach. Its quite annoying to see people in carnivore forums get all bent out of shape with their dogmatic outlook which makes them easily comparable to the vegan crowd. In any case, I wish you all well on your health journeys. Cheers!
I know it would be a big cost, but if you had an editor have little slides/annotations come up sometimes when referencing medical terms /conditions that are slightly less well known that would make these podcasts a whole new learning experience and way more accessible. Even just a pop up description of a term front time to time. I’ve been watching for 4/5 years now but there are times I don’t have a clue what they’re talking about
How do these people internally deal with the fact that they evangelized a diet they were CERTAIN were right, and convinced others to go on them, just to then drop the diet themselves?
@@graychev Shouldn't that be a sign to not evangelize any system at any stage when it comes to personal health though? We could always be presented with new evidence..
Live and learn. I commend him for paying attention to his body and what it needs and changing his mind. Everyone needs to be this way. Rigidity does not serve us
Well going carnivore is definitely not one bad thing to evangelize... Ideally if he stopped working out so much being always on carnivore he'd be perfect
I am 56 years old. Been in the gym religiously for 39 years. I still train really hard 4-5 times a week for an hour or more (doing HIT) I went Carnivore 28 months ago, and had many, many benefits, but, like Paul, I had terrible cramping and frequent heart palpitations. I added electrolytes after a year and this still did not solve things. After 18 months I added some fruit. Nothing crazy like Paul, maybe 3-4 servings of fruit a day, mostly berries in a smoothie. This solved all my issues! My hypothesis is a little different from Paul's. I think that when you are super active and often depleting all of your muscle glycogen, via hardcore training or like Paul's surfboarding, and then not replenishing that glycogen via carb loading, especially after training, that these carbs actually are the transport mechanism to put the electrolytes into the muscle. The muscles become chronically electrolyte depleted and then the cramping becomes chronic. Anyway, some fruit fixed that. Recently I have been following Dr. O'Mara and now I am adding some ferments to my diet. I may try to lower the carbs somewhat and see if the original problem might have had to do with gut biome health.
Salidino is overhated his diet made me realise the reason i had gut and poopy di scoop issues may been due to plants, spices and seed oils (i was told just eat more fibre even though it made it worse) also adding organs like liver and eating more butter made me feel better
Changed my life too man no more ibs chronic pain brain fog crp was 6 now it’s less then 1 no more asthma lost 100 pounds and am pretty fucking jacked now
After all is said, @Paulsaladinomd remains my favorite "diet MD". All the other "carnivore gurus" have still nothing to say about the palpitations and sleep issues reported by Paul and numerous people in the comment sections. All these issues disappear immediately as soon as a minimum amount of carbs are reintroduced. Paul is up to something when he speaks about insulin performing other essential functions in the body. The same has been mentioned by Dr Robert Cywes. Now we can debate about the right amount of carbs. I've been doing very well with about 50g of net carbs daily for years. My respects to you Dr Saladino.
Looking forward to this. Glad to see Derek back. When it comes to atherosclerosis & cholesterol I have no idea what to believe. Hopefully gain some insights here.
From This convo I do think It makes sense to hedge your bets against high apob whilst also living healthy in all other aspects. If you can find a apob lowering med with little to no side effects then it seems the benefits far outweigh the risks.
I did keto for about 4 years straight in 2018 to reverse fatty liver and gallbladder issues and it worked I was 38 years at the time. I had blood work done every 3 months. I worked out about 6 times a week and did sauna. The only issue I had with keto was that you tend to get too skinny in the face but the only time in my life I had a 6 pack. You get the sunken face look which doesn't look attractive. The weird thing was I didn't lose my strength I was 210 before keto and dropped down to 180 and still pushing the same weight which was awesome and my stamina was way up. I no longer do keto but thinking of doing it again for sure.
I did not feel any of the side of effects I actually felt the heathiest I ever felt. I wasn't doing hardcore carnivore diet I did eat fruit and vegetable and the fruits and vegetables I ate were the ones recommended by this book called "The Liver and Gallbladder Miracle Cleanse". That was my guide before all the keto hype.
@@Superulterathis should be top comment. I get that he’s smart and all that, but usually when you are speaking to a broad audience; it’s best to dumb things down. He’s speaking like a lawyer. Jelking to big words.
If anyone is curious on the Tsimane diet, from the study: An estimated 14% of their average caloric diet is protein, 14% is fat, and 72% is carbohydrate. Meat protein and fat are acquired by hunting with guns and bow and arrow, or fresh water fishing with arrows, hook and line, or nets. Non-processed carbohydrates are grown in the form of rice, plantain, manioc, and corn via slash-and-burn horticulture, and the Tsimane also gather wild nuts and fruits. Importantly, carbohydrates are high in fibre and very low in saturated fat and simple sugars, which might further explain our study findings. The Tsimane diet lacks trans fats, and is a low fat diet, with an average estimated daily consumption of 38 g fat, with 11 g saturated fat, 14 g monounsaturated fat, and 8 g polyunsaturated fat.
➡ I've been listening to Attia, MPMD, Huberman, Shawn Baker, Saladino, Anthony Chaffe, David Sinclair, Rhonda Patrick, Thomas Delauer for years and years and probably spent the same amount of time as what it takes to complete a PhD myself. And my conclusion is: It's probably better to just do what makes you feel good because trying to strive for following any advice out there will 15 hours later be totally unvalidated by someone else's claims, referring to a completely opposite study. I also want to comment that it's hard in these times and ages to believe in studies that are heavily or even completely payed off by food and drug companies, which sadly seem to be almost every single one of the larger ones. This topic is probably one of the hardest one to solve since it involves trust in pharmaceutical industry with its 2022 worth in the US were about $846.72 Billion
@@OptiRaz invalidated*** but hey I bet if you asked a heroin addict how they felt after shooting up they’d tell you they’ve never felt better…obviously an extreme example but maybe it illustrates that just because something makes you feel good doesn’t mean it’s good for you or your longevity.
@@Stank_Tank you do you. I rather use my senses and feel what feels good rather than following something that doesn’t make me feel good but according to some studies say people live 5 years longer
@@OptiRaz many studies. Just about every study done on the topic. And what if it was more than 5 years? And what if the last 10 years of your life you feel like absolute shit because your arteries are clogged up and you can’t do anything? Poor cardiovascular health is one of the leading causes of death. Just saying that maybe there’s a happy medium where people can still feel great and also increase lifespan/health span.
@@Stank_Tank for me it’s easy to understand that I should avoid leafy greens and fiber rich vegetables as my gut and digestive tract gets fked up. Tried everything on this earth suggested by several so called experts in their field. Been vegan for 1 year, vegetarian for another year. Tried bodybuilding style with rice, chicken and vegetables. Tried keto with measuring my blood sugar and ketones several times a day to make sure. The only thing that ever made a huge difference was to cut out vegetables and fiber. Clogging up arteries.. I can hear what studies you’ve been listening to and there’s really not much to talk about here, it seems you are not open to see that the studies suggesting that arteries clog from meat are not made on people eating solely meat but rather meat with bread, alcohol and sugars. No studies has yet been made on 100% carnivores so you can’t say yes or no anyways. That’s why, go on your gut feeling and instincts - it tells you exactly what you need if you just get integrated with your body and stop being all focused with your thoughts and brain in to studies.
@@OptiRaz no study has been conducted that concludes that high cholesterol (ApoB in particular) isn’t a risk factor. In every instance, reducing it will reduce risk of CV events. I understand that no study has been conducted on pure carnivores that support people like Saladino’s claims. And until someone puts their money where their mouth is and funds such studies, you shouldn’t make health recommendations based on unfounded claims. And multiple studies need to be done on the subject to make those claims with high degrees of confidence. This is coming from someone who loves and eats red meat. And again, just because something makes you feel good right now, doesn’t mean that it won’t kill you or complicate your health 20 years down the road. I know you’ll do it whatever you want, just understand that it’s irresponsible to make dietary and health recommendations based on anecdotal evidence alone.
Getting hung up on pharmacological intervention for managing lipids was painful. So many great things Paul was unable to talk about here due to how much time was spent on that. Silly.
My libido is much better on strict carnivore. My testosterone went from mid 300s to 900 after 2 years of carnivore and my free test was around 200. So carbs can't be the only thing to increase your libido
I still don’t understand how any fully grown adult can honestly be convinced they cracked the code in ≤2 years of experimenting with any kind of specific diet
Reductionist in theory to assume LDL causes CVD atherosclerosis. It is a contributing factor. The other factors: metabolic disfunction Insulin resistance ( high sugar diet/ high carbs) hormone imbalance Stress, results release high levels of cortisol & adrenaline. High levels cause inflammation by making blood vessels narrow & this effects heart leading to hyper tension high blood pressure. No medication to reduce stress. Hence, emphasis studies main focus cholesterol as being casual to CVD.
I think one thing that is always left off of these discussions is what should a person do if they are not metabolically healthy, don't have/are disposed to FH, and have high levels of APOB, and struggling thyroid? I believe this cohort of patient is very prominent in the US and it would be helpful to discuss from that perspective. I know several relatives that would fall into this group and wonder how I should encourage them. i.e - should they attempt a limited full carnivore diet to help get their metabolic health moving in the right direction? Is low impact cardio sufficient if that is all they feel like they have the energy to do daily?
@@jkeller2129 Saladino doesn’t have much beyond seed oil fear mongering. Data doesn’t back up his claims that seed oils are satan, cholesterol scores be damned. And before you get going on studies being funded by big sugar, does big ag not have financial incentives? Are the butter manufacturers above skewing studies to help sales?
LDL - Low Density Lipoprotiens (carry triglyceride and cholesterol to peripheral tissues from the liver) HDL- Carries cholesterol from peripheral tissues to the liver. (Not a risk factor for heart disease) ApoB - There are multiple different types of LDL lipoproteins all of which contain apoB(the protien bit) cholesterol or triglycerides would be the “lipo” bit of lipoprotein. The theory is that not all LDL Carries the same atherogenicity(plaque causing) But since all LDL contains apob it’s just a better way to measure all of the atherogenic particles compared to just getting an LDL-C (cholesterol) measurement. As for the types of LDL: you have vLDL, iDL, lpa Paul’s argument is that lifestyle changes are good enough to mitigate risk and that apoB (while being a risk factor) is not significant enough to hop on meds for when all other lifestyle changes are accounted for. As for Derek, he is more in the middle ground. Meds if outcomes are better vice versa. I think….This stuff can be tough to grasp honestly.
Apo B100 is the protein tag that is on VLDL, IDL, and LDL that allows it to be detected as such. HDL has an Apo A1 tag which distinguishes it. VLDL drops of triglycerides and becomes IDL then LDL.
Basically reduce insulin resistance, increase hdl (regardless of ldl numbers), have above average mitochondrial health. Whichever consumption gets you there, stick with it. You have to experiment with your own body and tweak it as your body speaks to you. Just remember that metabolic numbers can spike up or down drastically within a short period of time. So listen to your body.
It does not seem like Paul was interested in answering any questions during this interview. Paul says one thing, Derek asks a question, Paul won’t defend his stances and just says “you’re looking at it incorrectly”. And round and round and round
Fellow provider here, I have to disagree with the thyroid dysfunction or lowered t3 being an issue especially if TSH is normal. Almost all thyroid issues, chronic or acute, will affect the TSH in some way. Secondly you would have to check t4 and THR as well and have some type of symptoms manifest to fully conclude if it’s an issue that is negatively affected us as oppose to a normal physiologic compensation.
Paul is that kid who hated vegetables so much as a kid he’s devoted his whole life talking about how unhealthy they are because his mom made him eat a broccoli one time 😂
Really good questions and pushback on suspect points, or rather statements that don’t address the other side. Seems like Saladino has a philosophy, not a rigorous worldview that reflects the best available research.
We’ve been prescribing statins for 20 years en mass - and CVD is still going up. I’m a pharmacist and know the science fairly well but just that fact alone tells you that the lipid model of CVD is at the very least incomplete and probably wrong.
Not remotely .! And if u were you’d know that Focusing on keeping LDL oxidation as low as possible -> oxidative stress is main contributing factor to plaque formation. Which is the driver of arterial sclerosis
@@TheAbsoluteSir go back and look at the percentage of people that have high vs normal LDL and have cardiac events. And then look at the most recent data around statin effectiveness along with the relationship to dementia after long term use. Educate yourself instead of just believing what ur told by big pharma or some random dude on the TH-cam.
@@TheAbsoluteSir WHEN THINGS GET WORSE, THAT MEANS IT WORKS! ok bozo. Also the trend in people doing physical activity has actually risen over the past two decades.
@@Arthur-jz8sm he aint a grifter he got me into organs which was unheard food group that noone talks about they helped me overcome mineral defficencies without having to eat pounds of vegetables to get the same nutrients
@@Alex77tank87the science has always said vegetables are good for you and eating nothing but meat is bad for you. Paul just chose to ignore all the science and cherry pick and misinterpret studies that bolster his biases. Anyone who takes this man seriously is an idiot.
So frustrating to see the agenda against Paul across comments all over TH-cam. He has arrived at the truth of a balanced, animal-based diet of healthy unprocesses foods. No veggies, yes fruit, honey, raw dairy, meat (raw even better), and organs. He is over the target so the system is trying to make him look bad. None of thes extreme diets others promote are the answer. Notice the system loved Paul when he was carnivore lol.
"muh dude you do not realize that you need balance and moderate diet" why? By that logic cows also need balance diet that incorporated organ meat for example.
It's always expected that there will be a lot of bad comments regarding Saladino. I, myself, am highly sceptical of his views and find his smug, I-know-more-than-you attitude particularly grating but he's trying different things and that's to be commended. I switched to carnivore two years ago and feel way better for it. My test is mid 900's (I just turned 51} and I don't have any of the cramping or other issues he mentioned at the beginning. I'm not a hardline "this is the only way" proponent and I think the whole idea of being super restrictive with your diet in any way is a bit ridiculous but I feel good and my bloodwork is very good for my age so I'll stick with it for a bit longer and see what happens. I think one of the best examples of carnivore being a good idea (or rather, animal based) is Kent Carnivore. Watch the videos where he talks about what comes out in his bag. Eye opening, to say the least!
@@justincruz8352being at a low bodyfat is the most important factor for increasing total testosterone. And many people lose weight on a carnivore diet
His comments on Peter Attia endorsing seed oils and bad nutrition are crazy. He’s trying to provoke a fight so he can get publicity by debating his. But he seems to no understand what Attia actually says.
He did not say that, his argument is that seed oils are the main cause of metabolic disfunction and Peter Atteia is not advocating against seed oils and even saying the are benign.
@@RyanABC123 Can we agree that if he doesn't advocate against them he doesn't see them as a significant factor in metabolic disfunction? Paul and others believe seed oils are the main cause of it and Peter and others don't and this was the argument
A little disappointed in the last half of the podcast where Derek literally asked a question, let Paul say three words and then interjected, for like 30 minutes straight. Very frustrating to watch. So I'll monologue in this comment to make up for it. My dad got put on repatha as a "compromise" with his cardiologist for not wanting to take a statin. What he got in return was a marginal lowering of LDL, a post surgical joint infection, his first ever UTI, immediate cognitive issues/ dementia, and diabetes. I finally convinced him to go off and his a1c dropped an entire point in a matter of months. And his LDL is THANKFULLY back up to what his body physiologically prefers at 80 years old of 170 ish. I think the point you are entirely missing Derek is that LDL has a vital role in the body, especially as we age. I have zero doubt that the infections my father experienced had everything to do with artificially lowering a molecule that helps fight infection as one example of its functions. Lots of studies to show that the elderly with higher LDL live longer. Why are you ignoring this? My father could have died from sepsis from the UTI but thankfully it did not progress to that level. Lowering LDL leaves people susceptible to all kinds of issues including infection, cognitive issues, and diabetes.. diabetes LITERALLY being a precursor to heart disease, what you are apparently trying to prevent at all costs ignoring any other factors. You're not looking at the big picture. I don't get it. Our bodies are not stupid and cholesterol lowering medications are not benign vitamins for "just in case."
the only people who can do that are tribes who eat every part of the animal, including organs like the stomach where much of the nutrients of vegetables came from vegetables in the stomach or something.
As someone who has tried every diet to finally feel good, I was vegan for 2 years, vegetarian for 1 and for about 8 months I did typical “body builder” diet, rice, chicken, a cup of vegetables at every meal etc. I’ve never felt more alive and as good as I do doing carnivore CORRECTLY, the issue is everyone just buys chicken breast and thinks they’re doing carnivore. As someone who’s had multiple trips to the ER for chronic gas cramps to the point where doctors thought I was having an appendicitis attack, this is the only thing that’s healed them. As well as my acne, back pain, thin nails, energy, libido, etc. but yeah yall can say what you want lol, don’t knock it till you try it
Angus Barbieri was not stationary in the hospital. And he never got electrolytes iv. He went monthly to his GP and got his blood tests. They decided to give him oral sodium, potassium and a multivitamin.
Per the title, yes LAL can be a marker for heart disease. Depends are your particle size and LDL type. APO B is a way better marker for heart disease monitoring.
For me , a diet that is made of whole single ingredients. I eat wild fatty fish like sardines , wild game and pasture raised chickens and eggs. And I eat lots of veggies and salads with low oxalate greens like rocket and romaine lettuce. Whatever diet you follow, avoid refined sugars and processed food
@1:41:10 “it’s a gray area.” It doesn’t seem very gray considering the pharmacological intervention the Derek describes attentuates apoB and has a very minor side effect profile. It seems to me that if a pharmaceutical is tolerated well and lowers the risk of the #1 cause of mortality, it’s pretty no brainer. I could be wrong, though.
Yeah when it got down to it Saladino's only defence was "you can't prove that it is safe long term" when you really can from most clinical data on Lipid lowering drugs especially the modern ones
One thing we can all agree on, is the importance of high quality sleep and blood work, so I chose todays sponsors accordingly:
🛌 Use my Eight Sleep code "MPMD" for $200 off the Pod 4, or $350 off the Pod 4 Ultra: www.eightsleep.com/moreplatesmoredates/
⚕ Use code "MPMD" to get 10% off my go-to "Complete Panel" blood test, with a lab review included to interpret the results: marekhealth.com/mpmd
Feels good to be back. More podcasts and videos incoming!
------------
🕑 Time Stamps:
0:00:00 - 0:00:50 - Introduction
0:00:50 - 0:05:32 - Why Paul Saladino Stopped The Carnivore Diet After 2 Years
0:05:32 - 0:08:41 - Is There Ever A Point Of Doing A Keto Diet?
0:08:41 - 0:11:21 - Why Paul Reached Out To Me To Do A Second Podcast After Seeing Me Speak With Peter Attia
0:11:21 - 0:17:36 - What Actually Causes Atherosclerosis? Paul’s Take On The Traditional Hypothesis
0:17:36 - 0:22:17 - Should We Ignore High LDL-C Or APOB?
0:22:17 - 0:25:05 - Paul Describes How Some Studies Suggest That Those With Higher HDL-C Levels May Be Less Likely To Get Atherosclerosis Despite Having High LDL-C Levels
0:25:05 - 0:25:26 - Paul’s Perspective On Why Many Doctors Aren’t Educating Their Patients About Metabolic Health
0:25:26 - 0:33:41 - "Ignore Nutrition Just Focus On Exercise"
0:33:41 - 0:37:55 - Sponsor: Eight Sleep
0:37:55 - 0:39:02 - The Most Important Lab Tests For Avoiding Atherosclerosis
0:39:02 - 0:42:53 - Is It Possible To Get Atherosclerosis If You Have A Fasting Insulin Of 3 uIU/mL Or Less?
0:42:53 - 0:46:27 - Familial Hypercholesterolemia (FH) And Why It’s A Phenotypic Diagnosis, Not A Genotypic Diagnosis
0:46:27 - 0:49:41 - What Happens When You Replace Saturated Fat With Linoleic Acid?
0:49:41 - 0:52:38 - How A Pure Carnivore Diet Affects Thyroid Metabolism
0:52:38 - 0:56:45 - Can Someone On A Keto Diet Long-Term Develop Atherosclerosis Despite Having A Low Fasting Insulin? Dave Feldman’s Lean Mass Hyper-Responder Study
0:56:45 - 1:00:56 - How Paul’s Perspective Differs From Dave Feldman and Shawn Baker
• The Baseline Data From The LMHR Study Paul Mentioned: twitter.com/realDaveFeldman/status/1733387107610063195
1:00:56 - 1:03:55 - What Is APOB And LP(a)?
1:03:55 - 1:06:44 - Sponsor: Marek Health
1:06:44 - 1:10:21 - How Long It Takes For Plaque To Develop And Show On A CT Angiogram
1:10:21 - 1:13:46 - Why Paul Uses Proxy Biomarkers In Atherosclerosis Data Analysis To Discern Insulin Sensitivity
1:13:46 - 1:18:14 - Does Paul Think It Is Ever Justified To Take Lipid Lowering Medication To Avoid Atherosclerosis?
1:18:14 - 1:20:13 - How Should You Track If You Are Developing Atherosclerosis?
1:20:13 - 1:45:27 - Lipid Lowering Medication Risk-Reward Analysis. Will Lowering LDL-C Impair Quality Of Life, Regardless Of The Medication Used? Do Adolescents With Hypofunctioning PCSK9 And Very Low APOB Have Impaired Development Cognitively Or Structurally?
1:45:27 - 1:47:39 - If You Don’t Lower APOB But Want To Track Plaque Accumulation, Is The Dose Of Radiation From A CT Angiogram Concerning?
1:47:39 - 1:56:45 -Why Certain Tribes Have Lower Rates Of Cardiovascular Disease Than The Average Person. Should Or Shouldn’t We Copy What They’re Doing?
1:56:45 - 2:16:17 - The Lowest Hanging Fruit For Avoiding Atherosclerosis And Evaluating Your Risk
------------
balls to the wall supra-physiological posting schedule has my dopamine out of the reference range
You do not need any high tech device for great quality sleep lol. Do not buy this. Focus on what we have been doing for hundreds of thousands of years- not this bs
Thanks for having me on the pod, Derek. Hope the conversation is helpful for people. I know I talk fast, will try and slow it down in the future!
It was a good convo. Remember Socrates said there is nothing better than leaving a conversation having been refuted. I won’t go as far to say you were refuted but I think derek did raise a lot of good points objections and this can only make you grow more, as you mentioned. Appreciate you mate, feeling great on animal based :)
@@connorgray2896 I was actually surprised at the end when Derek dicussed a possible scenario of a perfectly healthy individual with high ApoB and supplementing with the latest and greatest lipid-lowering drugs. I think the obvious refute would be:
1. A healthy individual should always strive to avoid pharmaceutical drugs. All drugs have side effects, and if ApoB alone is bothering you, add some carbs to lower it. No need for drugs. The mere thought of taking drugs as part of a healthy lifestyle is distorted.
2. Many of these lipid-lowering drug outcomes only mention CVD mortality and fail to mention all-cause mortality. The reason being they don’t improve it. So you’re less likely to die of a heart attack talking these drugs, but you’d still die at the same predicted age from something else. These drugs do not work as most people think.
3. The lipid guidelines, the drug RCT’s and outcomes are of course all sponsored by big pharma, and you should be very wary of that. You cannot trust the reported data as-is.
Derek really asks great questions. Even tho i don't agree fully with stuff u say Paul (i disagree with quite some), I think u can have very high quality debates defending your points and i don't think your opinion is as contraversal as a diet that u do acording to that opinion. Even tho you are contraversial figure, I dont see you even near the pseudoscientific team foil, where some people try to fit u. I think u should do less influencer type of content where you sometimes sound pseudoscientific and do more of long debates and videos like this one. Great work both of you💪💪
@@gggXIIIHe's not controversial, he is promoting a balanced, non-extreme and sustainable diet that excludes all processed and harmful foods. He is exposing that sugar is not bad for you, while at the same time emphasizing that meat and animal foods are the healthiest and most nutritious. In other words, he's not joining one of the diet cults - the system wants the cults to argue with each other forever and never reach the truth. IMO Paul it near the truth and so he's being labeled controversial to throw the peasants off the scent.
Debate Bart
Derek is praticing a so high level of broscience that he could be considered a professor. A brofessor.
Bro
His understanding is very impressive
Just so you have everything under control, that's what's important, since you obviously have the wisdom of the ancients at your fingertips.....
Yeah he cooked w this comment
Derek, please start hosting debates. It is the only way people that disagree but cannot sit down to talk can do it. The respect they have for you makes it doable
yeah - homeboy is basically saying here carnivore or even keto can't be followed by anyone long term!
Derek hosting 2024 presidential debates
So, uh, in practical use let me see if I got this right: 1.) Don't be overweight 2.) Do cardiovascular exercise and lift weights 3.) avoid excess processed sugar 4.) eat a varied diet that doesn't completely eliminate any macro or micro. 5.) Past a certain age get a test from doctor to see how much plaque you got going on. Did I leave anything out?
Or eat a plant based whole food diet, lift iron, run, dance and stretch. Don't drink alcohol, don't smoke.
@@blackpalacemusicthis 👆
@@blackpalacemusicplant based? No thanks
@@blackpalacemusicThat's one way to go gay & be weak & ugly in old age.
@@blackpalacemusicplant based? Bro have you not been tuning into Paul or Derek😭? That’s one of the least efficient ways to do anything you’re gonna need to supplement, also bioavailability is a lot lower on a plant based diet
Heart health is one thing with this diet, but
Kidney and liver health is also what I’m looking at.
Whatever is the best diet for my organs is what im doing. Whether fruit+meat, or mediterranean, idc, I just don’t want to die for a dumb reason
This is why Paul is outspoken about the benefits of insulin and what the spikes actually do for your kidney function. Keto and carnivore people skip and bullshit this factual information from Paul
Death smiles at us all, all we can do is smile back. - Marcus Aurelius
@@gp7110 A large bolus of protein will also spike insulin. Paul did carnivore wrong.
@@redpillthinking6043 not by much that is a fact, so much more subdued than an actual carbohydrate of which his choices of raw milk and fruit are so ridiculously low on the spectrum I’m amazed he gets so much flack
@@gp7110you don't need much
Derek should host his podcast in the sauna!
Yesss
Naked or not naked?
@@Themilkman95 Oh cmon, men of culture, we know the answer!
A Roman Bath House
I double-checked my audio almost every time Paul talked to make sure I didn't accidentally hit 2X speed
I swear I just commented the same thing 🤣 so weird lmao
Same. I slow it down when he talks.
😂
I'm getting info from this so this isn't a dig on it as a whole, but it seemed hard to follow because you and Paul bounced around trying to find common ground in different areas. The conversation in general had a back and forth feel to it. Did you both have an outline for the show? If you need someone to Google info on the side during podcasts I could be available.
Regardless, love what you do here and for doing the Marek thing. I love that Paul keeps trying. We need people to be fringe to find the limits of what we know so we can gather more info and make more informed decisions in the future. Cheers!
True but I do feel the very last segment of the podcast was kind of a saving grace after they got off that specific back n forth and had time to process what the other person was trying to get it at they were able to tie it together a lot better, hope every one watches the whole thing and doesn't miss that part.
At the end of the day we just need way more conversations held with both sides of the community, that's one thing I respect about Paul he has always tried/is willing to talk to anyone on air about the topic. Really wish Peter Attia would agree to do a show with both him and Derek so there isn't this kind of proxy debate where its hard to get super granular because of not knowing every little detail about what the other person actually believes/advocates for. That's the best outcome for us the viewers who just want to learn.
This is one of the best examples of a constructive, healthy, respectful debate/discussion. It’s also one of the most meaningful discussions for people living - or trying to live - in 2024.
Upload schedule is improving
Burn out is real
Anabolic amount of uploads
@@veilmontTV The guy is just making bank with his companies. No time for YT
Supraphysiological levels of uploads streamlined to a relative time period.
I don't have a fear of death, but at the same time, I'm not trying to speed up the process. Accepting the fact that death is simply part of life, its not so bad. Focus on living rather than the inevitable outcome. Take care of yourself and your loved ones and just enjoy the process as best you can. That's my outlook at any rate. Cheers!
Thanks for the pod! Love both you guys, learn so much all the time. Great to hear from someone whose continually growing in their views and beliefs. It’s on the listeners to evaluate and discern what would work best for themselves, in their own life. Dude is just talking about his journey and how his beliefs have evolved, he’s not responsible for your own choices.
Great discussion. Saladino is currently one of the most nuanced and un-dogmatic sources. Can learn a lot from listening to his reasoning.
I can't even listen to this guy just knowing the fact that he truly believed that Liver King was natural!!!
They were close business partners and knew each other personally. Bro got tricked by a pathological liar but he still a good soul.
wait you mean derek or the other guy on podcast
oh no!
THANKS FOR THE WARNING LOL IM OUT
@@RoMaRobMarq thx bro lol I was confused 😅
Really good episode, I appreciated pushing him on the risk reward analysis in the spirit of genuine curiosity
Wholefood diet, meat, veggies, fruits, wholegrains... Probably the best diet, don't need to be extreme
Paul promotes meat, fruit, honey, raw dairy, and organs. It's not very extreme either. Only difference from what you said is no veggies or grains.
@@4DTravelr why no veggies or grains, there are fibers and nutrients
@@Louis-qo7tf Fiber is indigestible. Veggies have non-ideal forms of many nutrients that the body often can't deal with so easily compared to the animal food counterparts. There are also at times anti-nutrients and oxalates. Grains cause alot of people issues including Paul. But if they work for you, then by all means (grains).
@@4DTravelr fibers is great for digestion, good bacteria’s eat fibers therefore your gut is healthy. It also slow down digestion, there lowers blood sugars spikes
@@4DTravelr why can we eat fruits but not veggies then?
Good interview. I respect Paul's ability to interpret studies and share his knowledge about his health journey. People should be willing to put the time and effort into understanding their own personal health.
I will never understand what's controversial about eating fruits, vegetables, and whole grains. Diets like carnivore completely miss one of the biggest advantages humans have - we're opportunistic eaters. Not saying you should eat twinkies, but cavemen probably would kill (you) for them.
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
It probably depends on the individual. We are all sooo different.
Well, I think Joe Rogan, Paul, and others have said that they have immune issues. Most people don't have issues eating rice or bread, for that matter. This helps a lot of people who have food allergies would be my opinion. I think people saw that it helps with fat loss, and people went on making careers out of it (liver king). Even Derek eats meat with carbs
@@iiam2214 My issue with any 'fad diet' is the key component that they all use to promote weight loss is almost always cutting out junk food. If you're allergic to say, rice or grain, or whatever, that's a valid reason. It's when people who say they're on the keto diet, ignore that it's made as a treatment for children with epilepsy, where the kids will literally drink heavy cream as part of their dinner, and instead cut out junk food.
@@iiam2214 here was my experience. I struggled with my weight my entire life and it ruined my childhood and school/college years. When I stopped eating carbs and all the weight just fell off, without even exercising, it was easy to justify thinking carbs were the enemy.
Man, great talk. You asked good questions & gave him the stage to deep dive. Would love to hear him debate somebody else on these facts.
Excellent conversation. Thanks for hosting it, Derek.
Dear god the amount of ignorance and/or shills in these comments is deeply depressing.
Save yourself some time: Derek believes that leveraging pharma in addition to a healthy lifestyle is worth the potential side effect profile, Paul does not.
I'm just going to throw this out there and say it. If someone uses a lot of "big" words, a lot of industry words (combo with the big words), talks fast, and at the end of a 2 hour conversation you still don't understand the claim or what's going on... you're probably being scammed. Or at the very least, you should be very skeptical of them. Or a combination of both.
99% of people that cannot or choose not express their ideas in simple ways should be looked at with scrutiny. The last 1% are just the super autismo geniuses.
I agree 1000%. The guy says about 500 words a second, and uses so many abbreviations and complex phrases it’s hard to keep track of him. At least to the average person. I feel like he keeps moving at an insane pace, so no one can actually follow what he is saying.
Just cause you didn't understand it, it doesn't make any of what his said invalid. point out what his wrong about
@@balarab1 no no I understood him. But what I gave you was helpful life advise.
Meh …. I don’t understand the issue ? Eat meat fruit and honey .. drink milk and OJ… how is this controversial 💀
Used to love this dude. Still appreciate him, but I don't like how he's transformed into your typical social media influencer
Yeah, like WTF? Podcasts with grifters...
He's running a business
What’s the social media influencer part? That he doesn’t feel like carnivore is good anymorev
When I saw saladino had a smoothie named after him at Erewhon I was like shit. He’s more famous than I thought.
I do feel great on his diet though. I did add in the “grey area” rice though and loving it the last couple of days. Feeling a lot stronger in BJJ.
...wat...
Derek first of all thank you for doing this interview.
Having said that, perhaps you will watch the video again and learn from it as far as interviewing techniques go. People know you have some knowledge of things but as someone who is not on any of these band wagons and only saw Saladino for the first time this week in a different video I have to say.
Allow your guest to answer, don’t browbeat (bully) people into answering you. I didn’t look at all the comments here but it’s almost as if people are punishing this guy for having a change of opinion.
This is science, it changes continually because scientists are constantly trying to prove/ disprove theories, sometimes their very own. It’s how we learn and evolve and improve.
We as humans change continually not in a fickle flip flopper manner, but we learn adapt and or change.
I get that that’s what saladino did. Wrote a book had a lot of people buy it and follow him and then he changed course. Understandably some people are pissed. Did he intentionally try to mislead people? I really don’t think so.
But a mob never cares about such details once they get riled up. They want blood.
what this clearly shows me is that the medical and health care industry will never change their tune because if they ever say “oh no we were wrong about xyz”, there will be a bunch of people at the ready to sue and act like Derek but on a much more massive scale .
The message I got here is, when you make a mistake or take a wrong turn, don’t Tell anyone, let them continue to be misled bc if you have some integrity and admit you are human and as such made a mistake on something, You will be an outcast people will just drag you through the mud to the death. Saladino, kudos to you for coming on, Derek good luck with your lab testing company and wealth of knowledge. Don’t over talk people don’t cut them off, allow them to finish their thought, you are the one who asked the question. It’s actually not annoying it’s rude. I got through a lot, 1 hour 23 minutes I can’t listen to anymore of it. Guys listen to your body. Both these guys do some good but the undertone of this discussion was pure hostility. At one point I expected Derek to pull off his shirt beat his chest and say “I got you!! I know much more than you Paul Saladino, you fraud!”. It’s there in the skeptical form of his entire interrogation. That’s what it really was. Shame shame shame.
Atherosclerosis starts with lesions on the walls of arteries. Inflammation, poor metabolic health are probably main causes to this dysfunction . HBP, diabetes , insulin issues all are major contributors causing endothelial damage …. It seems focusing or treating the causes of the lesions is ideal to long term health.
The body repairs lesions using cholesterol. The focus ( fundamentally) has been on ldl levels , higher being bad.
I’ve yet to see an explanation that if you have a lesion , the person with an ldl of 150, vs 70, would send more cholesterol to the lesion for repair ( causing more “clogging”) vs the person ldl of 70? Thus the idea that “lower” = less clogging….. one would think the body sends just enough to repair the lesion whether the ldl was 150 or 70 ( or aboB being higher versus lower ).
The idea that lowering ldl (apob) via pharmaceuticals stops/minimizes the repair of lesions ( microtears) formation and thus the level of “clogging” due to other causes of inflammation seems confusing.
In a perfect world with no endothelial damage , does it even matter what your ldl level is ?
Risk factors for heart disease are smoking, drinking, saturated fat, trans fats, refined sugar etc. they damage the tight junctions of the endothelial cell wall in your arteries. This is because they are inflammatory products. Once the tight junctions are permeable then the body has endothelial dysfunction. However the nail in the coffin IS, exogenous LDL particles, the more you eat the more likely they are to oxidise within your arterial wall. Once they are trapped they never get out. Macrophages see them as foreign bodies and engulf the lipids, they begin to expand as foam cells until they finally explode. The internal lipids are further spread, more macrophages then arrive and see more foreign oxidise bodies and the cycle continues trying to engulf them. These lipids continue to become trapped unless you reduce the exogenous intake. Calcium and phosphates in the blood harden theses lipids and that is what atherosclerosis is, our number one killer. So there are risk factors like smoking etc etc but NO LDL DOES CAUSE HEART DISEASE, it is the number one critical risk factor. To answer your question though, you will still have atherosclerosis from high exogenous LDL, even without the risk factors, the critical risk factor is LDL
Our body produces its own cholesterol and we don’t need consume exogenous cholesterol to meet our needs. This is why carnivore is a fad and whole food plant based diets are not, a nutritionally complete plant based diet will always have better health outcomes than omnivores and especially carnivores assuming it’s whole foods and all macro and micro nutrients including amino acids are accounted for, high fibre, more variety, lower rates of cancer, heart disease and diabetes etc
@@LozwaveOur body produces its own carbohydrates and we don't need to consume exogenous carbohydrates to meet our needs. This is why modern agricultural diets are a meme and our ancestral dietary niche of carnivory is not. A meat based diet is nutritionally complete whilst plant based diets are lacking, thus why the majority those who try veganism quit in a couple years with the majority of those who quit citing health problems as the reason. More fiber is just more poo and gas, the rest are associative memes that don't even include carnivorous cohorts, not to mention the lack of scientific rigour in these associative studies
You should have Mike Fave on to talk about this
I found Mike and Saladino's video on sugar helpful for understanding many of flaws with low carb.
While I appreciate Saladino promoting some of the bioenergetic ideas it would be nice to see someone at Mikes level of understanding explaining why carbs can be very important. Saladino doesn't seem to be operating at a high level of understanding on the subject.
Look kids, it's a carnivore cope ! They do this when one of their gurus backpedals and admits the truth; hop onto another bandwagon.
Yes! Get Mike on!
@mikefavescience
I find these fad diets like carnivore or vegan or keto absolutely ridiculous. Truth is, the standard American diet is so bad, that any of these fad diets will be an improvement. However, earlier generations could live perfectly healthy by combining meat with veggies , carbs with fat, etc just find the balance and eat less and do sports. There is no need to deprive onself from anything as long as its with moderation
Absolutely. Very well said
You know zero about shit other than common bullshit thats been fed to you. His research far outweighs yours, you aren’t listening.
So a little bit of coke here and there.
Vegan diet isn’t a fad diet, it’s a philosophical approach to an eating pattern, there is no one vegan diet or pattern. But other than that I do also dislike the fad diet approach to carnivore and keto and find it dangerous
@philippegerond 9:02 eau4351 Coca cola or cocaine?
Or both?
Would love to see a discussion w/ Derek, Peter, Paul and Simon Hill!
it’s wild that this comes out at this time because like 2 and a half weeks ago i started watching Saladino’s stuff and taking it serious than before because i used to think he was a quack but im 100% on board now from thinking about it logically ive been on animal based for over 2 weeks and have felt 100 times better
At least there is one thinking person in the comments. It's a lifesaving diet in certain circumstances.
He can be a bit extreme sometimes, but he is generally very educated and passionate about this stuff and means well. I love Paul’s work.
Been on it a bit over a year. Just remember not to skimp out on the bone broth for collagens, and liver for all the other vitamins as well as your fruits!
Love that you two could sit down and speak through the nuances of nutrition and exercise! Sort of weird that Dr. Saladino was trying to paint the story that Dr. Attia only focuses on exercise. Regardless, glad you two were able to get over that hurdle and host a beneficial, public, open discussion on the rapidly evolving and complex field of metabolic health.
Would be great to see more podcasts like this!
Paul talks like 1.5 speed like he's used to being spoken over😄
Derek - I think one thing to talk to regarding the carnivore diet is the lack of fiber. Studies have been showing that colon cancer, specifically amongst young men is doubling (the same young men influenced by bodybuilding culture and carnivore culture), is sky high and a lack of veggies/legumes/grains is a big reason for this.
Fiber as a preventative measure for colon cancer only has utility in a carb laden diet. This is because the fiber is a substrate for gut bacteria to create butyrate.
The butyrate is then converted to beta hydroxy butyrate in the colonocytes before it's any use.
In the absence of dietary carbohydrate this beta hydroxy butyrate is supplied to the colonocytes endogenously
Derek came across to me as nit-picky and pointed in his questioning. Really good conversation between two highly-informed individuals but not sure why Derek is so pushy on certain things. Paul isn’t the knower of all and I appreciate whenever he straight up admits; “I don’t know!”. He is authentic and unapologetically passionate about what he believes. Probably also why he speaks so fast. His brain is like on crack with all this information.
My practical takeaway: “YOU will be your best investigator into what you need to be the healthiest you possible in this life. Pay attention to how you feel first, look second, then think about digging into your bloodwork and hormonal profile and beyond. It’s pretty clear that Paul believes in the power of what humans can do for themselves naturally. Nothing wrong with the notion that drug intervention should be the exception, not the rule. Thanks for the conversation Derek and Paul!
Derek was being a little nit- picky but for a good reason, Paul is going against mountains of evidence especially on overblowing the side effects of modern Lipid lowering drugs. Derek's whole point was trying to understand why Paul thinks that lowering your apob with modern drugs is not worth it even though all the data points in the direction that it lowers your mortality and has very little side effects. Saladino did not answer the question or site studys on exactly how it is actually bad to lower apob which made derek ask it over and over again.
I love Paul's fast talking. It's less boring that way.
The standard American diet is full of seed oils, and most of MD influencers don't think that is a problem and only advise to "eath healthy" and exercise. But if what paul is claiming about seed oils and metabolic disfunction is true, his argument that no body of main stream MDs advise to fix metabolic disease/insulin resistance with dieting (stopping seed oil intake) is valid.
Same could be said about all the other claims that go against the scientific consensus made by pseudo-science social media influencers
@august4633 you saying that I shouldn't put myself into Ketosis?
@@august4633 I did not defend his views, I only said his argument is valid because Derek didn't get hist point.
On the contrary of pseudoscience, there are evidences that high rates of n6 polyunsaturated fats disrupts mitochondrial functions, which the standard American diet is full of.
“Seed oil” is the new “demon food”, before that it was just “carbs” if you ask vegan it would be any animal based product. It’s all nonsense, nothing bad would happen to your body if you consume seed oils, the issue with seed oils is that they are just low in useful stuff while rich in calories. Just like most “unhealthy” food it really comes down to too many calories for too little micronutrients. Because of that you end up over feeding and gaining weight while still lacking sufficient fiber, minerals and vitamins.
Saladino was very defensive, lol. I'm glad y'all were able to work through that and come to an understanding and overall have a great discussion. I know he gets ragged on often, so its to be expected. You asked some tough questions for the sake of understanding as well as to help us understand and I appreciate you for that, Derek. For what it's worth, Saladino, my perspective is much more similar to yours as I believe carnivore is a tool that should be used to figure out what works best for each of us on an individual level. I believe a food journal is the key to determining what is the proper diet for each of us while using the carnivore style diet to heal as well as create a clean foundation from which to test various plants (veg/fruit) for side effects while notating how our bodies react to them. This will give us a great diet plan to follow that suits our needs, allowing everyone to drop the dogmatic approach. Its quite annoying to see people in carnivore forums get all bent out of shape with their dogmatic outlook which makes them easily comparable to the vegan crowd. In any case, I wish you all well on your health journeys. Cheers!
I know it would be a big cost, but if you had an editor have little slides/annotations come up sometimes when referencing medical terms /conditions that are slightly less well known that would make these podcasts a whole new learning experience and way more accessible. Even just a pop up description of a term front time to time. I’ve been watching for 4/5 years now but there are times I don’t have a clue what they’re talking about
How do these people internally deal with the fact that they evangelized a diet they were CERTAIN were right, and convinced others to go on them, just to then drop the diet themselves?
I for one, admire people who change their mind upon new evidence.
I'm not saying he's not a quack, though. But still.
@@graychev Shouldn't that be a sign to not evangelize any system at any stage when it comes to personal health though? We could always be presented with new evidence..
Live and learn. I commend him for paying attention to his body and what it needs and changing his mind. Everyone needs to be this way. Rigidity does not serve us
@@connietrumpf2037 I didn't criticise him changing his mind. I commend that as well. Please re-read my comment.
Well going carnivore is definitely not one bad thing to evangelize... Ideally if he stopped working out so much being always on carnivore he'd be perfect
Conversation with Saladino and Attia together has to happen! Fans of both, would be a great podcast
Here we go ! Been looking forward to this all week Derek, thank you brotha !
I am 56 years old. Been in the gym religiously for 39 years. I still train really hard 4-5 times a week for an hour or more (doing HIT) I went Carnivore 28 months ago, and had many, many benefits, but, like Paul, I had terrible cramping and frequent heart palpitations. I added electrolytes after a year and this still did not solve things. After 18 months I added some fruit. Nothing crazy like Paul, maybe 3-4 servings of fruit a day, mostly berries in a smoothie. This solved all my issues!
My hypothesis is a little different from Paul's. I think that when you are super active and often depleting all of your muscle glycogen, via hardcore training or like Paul's surfboarding, and then not replenishing that glycogen via carb loading, especially after training, that these carbs actually are the transport mechanism to put the electrolytes into the muscle. The muscles become chronically electrolyte depleted and then the cramping becomes chronic.
Anyway, some fruit fixed that.
Recently I have been following Dr. O'Mara and now I am adding some ferments to my diet. I may try to lower the carbs somewhat and see if the original problem might have had to do with gut biome health.
Salidino is overhated his diet made me realise the reason i had gut and poopy di scoop issues may been due to plants, spices and seed oils (i was told just eat more fibre even though it made it worse) also adding organs like liver and eating more butter made me feel better
This diet has improved my life immensely, I’ve changed as a person. New goals, actual ambition and I’m noticeably sharper.
@@partsunknown2852 blessed bro
For real it fixed my gut and bathroom issues, I don’t care if he’s a grifter or charlatan at this point, the diet works for me and I love it
Changed my life too man no more ibs chronic pain brain fog crp was 6 now it’s less then 1 no more asthma lost 100 pounds and am pretty fucking jacked now
@@bumblebower1529 wow 100 pounds is crazy
After all is said, @Paulsaladinomd remains my favorite "diet MD". All the other "carnivore gurus" have still nothing to say about the palpitations and sleep issues reported by Paul and numerous people in the comment sections. All these issues disappear immediately as soon as a minimum amount of carbs are reintroduced. Paul is up to something when he speaks about insulin performing other essential functions in the body. The same has been mentioned by Dr Robert Cywes. Now we can debate about the right amount of carbs. I've been doing very well with about 50g of net carbs daily for years. My respects to you Dr Saladino.
Looking forward to this. Glad to see Derek back.
When it comes to atherosclerosis & cholesterol I have no idea what to believe. Hopefully gain some insights here.
From
This convo I do think
It makes sense to hedge your bets against high apob whilst also living healthy in all other aspects. If you can find a apob lowering med with little to no side effects then it seems the benefits far outweigh the risks.
I like how you give him push back Derek! 👏
Derek definitely shooting ropes with this upload cycle.
I did keto for about 4 years straight in 2018 to reverse fatty liver and gallbladder issues and it worked I was 38 years at the time. I had blood work done every 3 months. I worked out about 6 times a week and did sauna. The only issue I had with keto was that you tend to get too skinny in the face but the only time in my life I had a 6 pack. You get the sunken face look which doesn't look attractive. The weird thing was I didn't lose my strength I was 210 before keto and dropped down to 180 and still pushing the same weight which was awesome and my stamina was way up. I no longer do keto but thinking of doing it again for sure.
I did not feel any of the side of effects I actually felt the heathiest I ever felt. I wasn't doing hardcore carnivore diet I did eat fruit and vegetable and the fruits and vegetables I ate were the ones recommended by this book called "The Liver and Gallbladder Miracle Cleanse". That was my guide before all the keto hype.
definitely. a sunken face isn't a plus
@@sazoman7979what kind of fruits you recommend?
@@beekarinsaan forest fruit mix is good, blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, blackcurrants and redcurrants
Paul is the only person I have to put on slower speed.
I like these two hour podcasts. I can work with my hands, listen, and not feel the need to touch my phone too much switching from video to video
Is he talking in speed x2?
It’s a rhetorical trick to make him seem smarter and his incredibly imbalanced views more legitimate
Word Saladino.
@@Superultera Bro! LOL
@@Superulterathis should be top comment. I get that he’s smart and all that, but usually when you are speaking to a broad audience; it’s best to dumb things down. He’s speaking like a lawyer. Jelking to big words.
The Ben Shapiro “trick”
If anyone is curious on the Tsimane diet, from the study: An estimated 14% of their average caloric diet is protein, 14% is fat, and 72% is carbohydrate. Meat protein and fat are acquired by hunting with guns and bow and arrow, or fresh water fishing with arrows, hook and line, or nets. Non-processed carbohydrates are grown in the form of rice, plantain, manioc, and corn via slash-and-burn horticulture, and the Tsimane also gather wild nuts and fruits. Importantly, carbohydrates are high in fibre and very low in saturated fat and simple sugars, which might further explain our study findings. The Tsimane diet lacks trans fats, and is a low fat diet, with an average estimated daily consumption of 38 g fat, with 11 g saturated fat, 14 g monounsaturated fat, and 8 g polyunsaturated fat.
Guess who's back,
Back again,
Derek's back,
Tell a friend!
Went from Paul Steakino to Paul Saladino
Fruitino lol, he doesn't eat salad.
Honino 🤯
Shitino.
➡ I've been listening to Attia, MPMD, Huberman, Shawn Baker, Saladino, Anthony Chaffe, David Sinclair, Rhonda Patrick, Thomas Delauer for years and years and probably spent the same amount of time as what it takes to complete a PhD myself. And my conclusion is: It's probably better to just do what makes you feel good because trying to strive for following any advice out there will 15 hours later be totally unvalidated by someone else's claims, referring to a completely opposite study.
I also want to comment that it's hard in these times and ages to believe in studies that are heavily or even completely payed off by food and drug companies, which sadly seem to be almost every single one of the larger ones.
This topic is probably one of the hardest one to solve since it involves trust in pharmaceutical industry with its 2022 worth in the US were about $846.72 Billion
@@OptiRaz invalidated*** but hey I bet if you asked a heroin addict how they felt after shooting up they’d tell you they’ve never felt better…obviously an extreme example but maybe it illustrates that just because something makes you feel good doesn’t mean it’s good for you or your longevity.
@@Stank_Tank you do you. I rather use my senses and feel what feels good rather than following something that doesn’t make me feel good but according to some studies say people live 5 years longer
@@OptiRaz many studies. Just about every study done on the topic. And what if it was more than 5 years? And what if the last 10 years of your life you feel like absolute shit because your arteries are clogged up and you can’t do anything? Poor cardiovascular health is one of the leading causes of death.
Just saying that maybe there’s a happy medium where people can still feel great and also increase lifespan/health span.
@@Stank_Tank for me it’s easy to understand that I should avoid leafy greens and fiber rich vegetables as my gut and digestive tract gets fked up. Tried everything on this earth suggested by several so called experts in their field. Been vegan for 1 year, vegetarian for another year. Tried bodybuilding style with rice, chicken and vegetables. Tried keto with measuring my blood sugar and ketones several times a day to make sure. The only thing that ever made a huge difference was to cut out vegetables and fiber.
Clogging up arteries.. I can hear what studies you’ve been listening to and there’s really not much to talk about here, it seems you are not open to see that the studies suggesting that arteries clog from meat are not made on people eating solely meat but rather meat with bread, alcohol and sugars.
No studies has yet been made on 100% carnivores so you can’t say yes or no anyways. That’s why, go on your gut feeling and instincts - it tells you exactly what you need if you just get integrated with your body and stop being all focused with your thoughts and brain in to studies.
@@OptiRaz no study has been conducted that concludes that high cholesterol (ApoB in particular) isn’t a risk factor. In every instance, reducing it will reduce risk of CV events.
I understand that no study has been conducted on pure carnivores that support people like Saladino’s claims. And until someone puts their money where their mouth is and funds such studies, you shouldn’t make health recommendations based on unfounded claims. And multiple studies need to be done on the subject to make those claims with high degrees of confidence.
This is coming from someone who loves and eats red meat. And again, just because something makes you feel good right now, doesn’t mean that it won’t kill you or complicate your health 20 years down the road. I know you’ll do it whatever you want, just understand that it’s irresponsible to make dietary and health recommendations based on anecdotal evidence alone.
Getting hung up on pharmacological intervention for managing lipids was painful. So many great things Paul was unable to talk about here due to how much time was spent on that. Silly.
More Plates Of Salad.
didn't you know vegetables are bad for you? Turns out the Mediterranean diet is unhealthy after all.... lol
@@anonymous134y wtf is 'Mediterranean diet'?
My libido is much better on strict carnivore. My testosterone went from mid 300s to 900 after 2 years of carnivore and my free test was around 200. So carbs can't be the only thing to increase your libido
I still don’t understand how any fully grown adult can honestly be convinced they cracked the code in ≤2 years of experimenting with any kind of specific diet
Hubris
Reductionist in theory to assume LDL causes CVD atherosclerosis. It is a contributing factor. The other factors: metabolic disfunction Insulin resistance ( high sugar diet/ high carbs) hormone imbalance Stress, results release high levels of cortisol & adrenaline. High levels cause inflammation by making blood vessels narrow & this effects heart leading to hyper tension high blood pressure. No medication to reduce stress. Hence, emphasis studies main focus cholesterol as being casual to CVD.
Got damn, Derek is a legit black belt in this shit. Im always stunned of his knowledge on such intricate topics
Crazy that I didn’t even know I missed your videos until you posted the first one back after an 8 month hiatus!
It’s apparent who took their pre-podcast propranolol and who didn’t 🤣
I love this. I tried 100 diets and you really have to try it to see if it lives up to the hype. You really learn on your mistskes.
This is a great discussion.
I think one thing that is always left off of these discussions is what should a person do if they are not metabolically healthy, don't have/are disposed to FH, and have high levels of APOB, and struggling thyroid? I believe this cohort of patient is very prominent in the US and it would be helpful to discuss from that perspective. I know several relatives that would fall into this group and wonder how I should encourage them. i.e - should they attempt a limited full carnivore diet to help get their metabolic health moving in the right direction? Is low impact cardio sufficient if that is all they feel like they have the energy to do daily?
You did not let that man say ONE word about seed oils. Masterful.
And that is where a huge chuck of the problem lies.
@@jkeller2129 Saladino doesn’t have much beyond seed oil fear mongering. Data doesn’t back up his claims that seed oils are satan, cholesterol scores be damned. And before you get going on studies being funded by big sugar, does big ag not have financial incentives? Are the butter manufacturers above skewing studies to help sales?
It's impossible to keep up with Derek and Paul while HIGH. Fuckin impossible
Bro I was experiencing this too lmao
@@aleccadena9061 might have to run it back tonight with 75 mg thc. Maybe if I focus hard af I might keep up😅
Wait, they're high, or you are? Or both?
@@Magneticlaw I'm high
Who watched this and still doesn’t know what APOB is? 😅
This guy. In fact, I don't think I took away anything of value from the entire conversation.
LDL - Low Density Lipoprotiens (carry triglyceride and cholesterol to peripheral tissues from the liver)
HDL- Carries cholesterol from peripheral tissues to the liver. (Not a risk factor for heart disease)
ApoB - There are multiple different types of LDL lipoproteins all of which contain apoB(the protien bit) cholesterol or triglycerides would be the “lipo” bit of lipoprotein.
The theory is that not all LDL Carries the same atherogenicity(plaque causing)
But since all LDL contains apob it’s just a better way to measure all of the atherogenic particles compared to just getting an LDL-C (cholesterol) measurement.
As for the types of LDL: you have vLDL, iDL, lpa
Paul’s argument is that lifestyle changes are good enough to mitigate risk and that apoB (while being a risk factor) is not significant enough to hop on meds for when all other lifestyle changes are accounted for.
As for Derek, he is more in the middle ground. Meds if outcomes are better vice versa.
I think….This stuff can be tough to grasp honestly.
Apo B100 is the protein tag that is on VLDL, IDL, and LDL that allows it to be detected as such. HDL has an Apo A1 tag which distinguishes it. VLDL drops of triglycerides and becomes IDL then LDL.
@@Superultera He's a loony....
Basically reduce insulin resistance, increase hdl (regardless of ldl numbers), have above average mitochondrial health.
Whichever consumption gets you there, stick with it. You have to experiment with your own body and tweak it as your body speaks to you.
Just remember that metabolic numbers can spike up or down drastically within a short period of time. So listen to your body.
It does not seem like Paul was interested in answering any questions during this interview. Paul says one thing, Derek asks a question, Paul won’t defend his stances and just says “you’re looking at it incorrectly”. And round and round and round
That’s what happens when some influencer makes up a diet fad
Fellow provider here, I have to disagree with the thyroid dysfunction or lowered t3 being an issue especially if TSH is normal. Almost all thyroid issues, chronic or acute, will affect the TSH in some way. Secondly you would have to check t4 and THR as well and have some type of symptoms manifest to fully conclude if it’s an issue that is negatively affected us as oppose to a normal physiologic compensation.
Paul is that kid who hated vegetables so much as a kid he’s devoted his whole life talking about how unhealthy they are because his mom made him eat a broccoli one time 😂
He used to be vegan
He’s my hero
Trust your tongue
There’s a reason humans hate eating vegetables
@@johnweinhandl8890Wait till you find out that vegetables can taste good 🤯
@johnweinhandl8890
Guys, trust your tongue! There's a reason people really like sugar and cocaine.
Or like he said he was vegan and had really bad reactions like a lot of people do.
Can’t wait to watch this. You two are my fav!
Balanced diet for the win.
Really good questions and pushback on suspect points, or rather statements that don’t address the other side. Seems like Saladino has a philosophy, not a rigorous worldview that reflects the best available research.
We’ve been prescribing statins for 20 years en mass - and CVD is still going up. I’m a pharmacist and know the science fairly well but just that fact alone tells you that the lipid model of CVD is at the very least incomplete and probably wrong.
Not remotely .! And if u were you’d know that Focusing on keeping LDL oxidation as low as possible -> oxidative stress is main contributing factor to plaque formation. Which is the driver of arterial sclerosis
That means that we live a more sedentary lifestyle and eat worse than ever, not that statins don't work.
@@FrancisDietPodcast yeah you’re making the same case - it’s about the environment in which LDL is present, not the amount of LDL. Thanks.
@@TheAbsoluteSir go back and look at the percentage of people that have high vs normal LDL and have cardiac events. And then look at the most recent data around statin effectiveness along with the relationship to dementia after long term use. Educate yourself instead of just believing what ur told by big pharma or some random dude on the TH-cam.
@@TheAbsoluteSir WHEN THINGS GET WORSE, THAT MEANS IT WORKS! ok bozo. Also the trend in people doing physical activity has actually risen over the past two decades.
This was a great interview. I can see why Derek is so popular.
“This dude has failed at every diet he’s tried.”
If you can name your diet, then it’s bad
Most people do.
Yeap because it's unsustainable
@@tsebosei1285dosent he have a balanced diet is slightly carnivore still
@@Alastair_Adana You probably thought this was a genius comment
Now this is worth of thy time mi frend
Correction I wasn’t able to grift enough on carnivore
Bro why can't someone change their lifestyle based on current literature and literally living it.
Literature always said it didn’t work
@@Alex77tank87dude never followed the literature in the first place.
Absolutely over for you if you buy into saladinos grift.
@@Arthur-jz8sm he aint a grifter he got me into organs which was unheard food group that noone talks about they helped me overcome mineral defficencies without having to eat pounds of vegetables to get the same nutrients
@@Alex77tank87the science has always said vegetables are good for you and eating nothing but meat is bad for you. Paul just chose to ignore all the science and cherry pick and misinterpret studies that bolster his biases. Anyone who takes this man seriously is an idiot.
I think Derek needs to mediate a Paul /Peter pod
So frustrating to see the agenda against Paul across comments all over TH-cam. He has arrived at the truth of a balanced, animal-based diet of healthy unprocesses foods. No veggies, yes fruit, honey, raw dairy, meat (raw even better), and organs. He is over the target so the system is trying to make him look bad. None of thes extreme diets others promote are the answer. Notice the system loved Paul when he was carnivore lol.
Just look at the amount of views on this video compared to his others, a video like this would’ve exploded
"muh dude you do not realize that you need balance and moderate diet"
why? By that logic cows also need balance diet that incorporated organ meat for example.
THE GOAT IS BACK ON TH-cam 2024 MPMD
I thought this channel was science based.
it is salidino aint wrong
@@ShreddedGenius He is very wrong
@@ShreddedGenius 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ShreddedGenius cmon man, bros even lying about whats in Peter's book
@@whereruaaron disagree but would be intrested to here your take
Excellent quality here from Paul
It's always expected that there will be a lot of bad comments regarding Saladino. I, myself, am highly sceptical of his views and find his smug, I-know-more-than-you attitude particularly grating but he's trying different things and that's to be commended. I switched to carnivore two years ago and feel way better for it. My test is mid 900's (I just turned 51} and I don't have any of the cramping or other issues he mentioned at the beginning. I'm not a hardline "this is the only way" proponent and I think the whole idea of being super restrictive with your diet in any way is a bit ridiculous but I feel good and my bloodwork is very good for my age so I'll stick with it for a bit longer and see what happens. I think one of the best examples of carnivore being a good idea (or rather, animal based) is Kent Carnivore. Watch the videos where he talks about what comes out in his bag. Eye opening, to say the least!
Carnivore mostly lowers testosterone levels. You must have really high levels to begin with
@@justincruz8352or just on exogenous hormones. Doubtful he’s @900 at 51. That’s hard to believe in this day and age.
@@justincruz8352being at a low bodyfat is the most important factor for increasing total testosterone.
And many people lose weight on a carnivore diet
I have been pure carnivore 1 year and have monthly bloodwork. My electrolytes are always fine.
His comments on Peter Attia endorsing seed oils and bad nutrition are crazy. He’s trying to provoke a fight so he can get publicity by debating his. But he seems to no understand what Attia actually says.
Yeah, he seems to be still holding onto a bunch of crazy ideas. Just slightly less crazy now.
He did not say that, his argument is that seed oils are the main cause of metabolic disfunction and Peter Atteia is not advocating against seed oils and even saying the are benign.
@@balarab1 I struggle like Derek to believe Attia says they’re benign and the implication was ok to consume.
@@RyanABC123 Can we agree that if he doesn't advocate against them he doesn't see them as a significant factor in metabolic disfunction?
Paul and others believe seed oils are the main cause of it and Peter and others don't and this was the argument
Peter Atia is too afraid to have his outdated lipid dogma challenged.
A little disappointed in the last half of the podcast where Derek literally asked a question, let Paul say three words and then interjected, for like 30 minutes straight. Very frustrating to watch. So I'll monologue in this comment to make up for it. My dad got put on repatha as a "compromise" with his cardiologist for not wanting to take a statin. What he got in return was a marginal lowering of LDL, a post surgical joint infection, his first ever UTI, immediate cognitive issues/ dementia, and diabetes. I finally convinced him to go off and his a1c dropped an entire point in a matter of months. And his LDL is THANKFULLY back up to what his body physiologically prefers at 80 years old of 170 ish. I think the point you are entirely missing Derek is that LDL has a vital role in the body, especially as we age. I have zero doubt that the infections my father experienced had everything to do with artificially lowering a molecule that helps fight infection as one example of its functions. Lots of studies to show that the elderly with higher LDL live longer. Why are you ignoring this? My father could have died from sepsis from the UTI but thankfully it did not progress to that level. Lowering LDL leaves people susceptible to all kinds of issues including infection, cognitive issues, and diabetes.. diabetes LITERALLY being a precursor to heart disease, what you are apparently trying to prevent at all costs ignoring any other factors. You're not looking at the big picture. I don't get it. Our bodies are not stupid and cholesterol lowering medications are not benign vitamins for "just in case."
Agreed. Derek appears to be trolling this last half of the conversation. SMH
I think it's absolutely hilarious that anyone ever thought carnivore diet was healthy long-term
the only people who can do that are tribes who eat every part of the animal, including organs like the stomach where much of the nutrients of vegetables came from vegetables in the stomach or something.
Most do better on carnivore than vegan, vegetarian, or"normal" American diet
@@stevensoles2158 yeah, the vegetarians I have known were all pale with no muscle tone.
@@stevensoles2158”Most”. You have any studies to back that up?
As someone who has tried every diet to finally feel good, I was vegan for 2 years, vegetarian for 1 and for about 8 months I did typical “body builder” diet, rice, chicken, a cup of vegetables at every meal etc. I’ve never felt more alive and as good as I do doing carnivore CORRECTLY, the issue is everyone just buys chicken breast and thinks they’re doing carnivore. As someone who’s had multiple trips to the ER for chronic gas cramps to the point where doctors thought I was having an appendicitis attack, this is the only thing that’s healed them. As well as my acne, back pain, thin nails, energy, libido, etc. but yeah yall can say what you want lol, don’t knock it till you try it
Angus Barbieri was not stationary in the hospital. And he never got electrolytes iv. He went monthly to his GP and got his blood tests. They decided to give him oral sodium, potassium and a multivitamin.
so this guy is a doctor and knew its not optimal to only eat meat and he still told people to do it anyway ?
Yes because he’s a grifter. He selling a product and people buy it.
@@Fajay258raw meat is optimal. How you getting vitamin A on a plant based diet?
You dont 😂😂@MohsinAli-jt5rk
@@MohsinAli-jt5rkoptimal for what? Parasites to have an easier time finding a home in your body?
Per the title, yes LAL can be a marker for heart disease. Depends are your particle size and LDL type. APO B is a way better marker for heart disease monitoring.
For me , a diet that is made of whole single ingredients. I eat wild fatty fish like sardines , wild game and pasture raised chickens and eggs. And I eat lots of veggies and salads with low oxalate greens like rocket and romaine lettuce. Whatever diet you follow, avoid refined sugars and processed food
Sounds like keto. Once people wake up to keto, grains are almost never in the picture as they shouldn’t be
This guy would make a awesome rapper.
I think paul thought derek was trying to get him in a gotcha moment instead of being genuine.
What makes you say that?
@@socrates2788 he seemed irritated and defensive, I'll have to rewatch to give you specific timestamps
@@socrates2788 he seemed irritated and defensive, I'll have to rewatch to give you specific timestamps
@1:41:10 “it’s a gray area.” It doesn’t seem very gray considering the pharmacological intervention the Derek describes attentuates apoB and has a very minor side effect profile. It seems to me that if a pharmaceutical is tolerated well and lowers the risk of the #1 cause of mortality, it’s pretty no brainer. I could be wrong, though.
Yeah when it got down to it Saladino's only defence was "you can't prove that it is safe long term" when you really can from most clinical data on Lipid lowering drugs especially the modern ones
Good watch, just finished