My Dad taught me how to fly 43 years ago. He was a WW2 and Korean War veteran. He had to make an emergency landing in a P40 (in the water) and again had a cabin fire in an F86 (while making a test flight after major repairs). He had smoke and some fire in both incidents in the cockpit, and getting down fast was paramount to survival. His advice to me was the longer that you stay in the air with a fire the less your chances of a good outcome. It is the only time where altitude is not your friend. In a survival situation remember that VNE has a buffer in it (he was an engineer - helicopter designer at Hughes). Don't be afraid to bump it or even exceed it if your survival depends on it. He had me practice a very tight spiral many a time and I still do it. Many times on my biannual (now called review), I have demonstrated the steep spiral - steeper and tighter than most are comfortable with (always at or near VNE). The steep spiral probably saved my Dad's life on two occasions. Yes, I practice regularly.
DPE on my checkride: “I smell smoke”.... Me: “I don’t smell anything”... DPE: “I smell SMOKE” Me: “I still don’t smell anything”.... DPE: “Glaring at me intensely”... ME: “Ohhhhhhhh”.... And “finally” initiating and emergency decent!!
My biggest goof in a checkride was my pvt. The dpe said this next portion is a simulation. Again I say this is a simmulted engine failure. He pulled power a So I started pitching for airspeed then looking for best place to land. Doing so I was looking down and the stall horn started to come on. I responded by going full power I immediately caught it and pulled power and lowered aoa. I was like ooops he just laughed.
As a police firearms/tactics instructor, I always advocated "roleplaying": I.e, run any potential scenario through your mind and work out possible solutions/options. Do this in the course of your day during quiet moments and you'll find that, if you've been imaginative and diligent, chances are you will operate in automatic mode when the actual emergency occurs. During a patrol (or a flight) you should be always thinking "What do I do if the guy on the corner pulls a gun?" (what do I do if oil pressure drops out right now?) By gaming it out in your head you get a mental "muscle memory" that will allow you to perform functions without having to think about them, since you went through this very situation before- in your head.
Years ago my instructor and I were practicing an emergency descent over Texas from around 6 or 7k down to 1k or so, and we set up exactly as you demonstrate. In a matter of seconds we were both surprised to see the cabin completely fog up! Couldn’t see a thing! I arrested our descent rate and it cleared up in short order, but I’ve never forgotten that lesson. Something to think about when considering temperature, pressure, and humidity.
@@jasonMB999 A bit late, but why would that happen? the oil freezing for going from a low pressure to a higher pressure in a steep descent? couldn't find any info about it, i would really like an explanation, thanks in advance :)
I live and fly in the mountains, so a consideration for me is mechanical turbulence and adhering to Va (corrected for my weight). Because of that, the descent with full flaps is a better option, or at least one that should be considered should that turbulent environment exist. As a side note, my 185 has manual flaps, so Master Switch On or Off isn’t a consideration. Also, if there is a max window opening speed (I have bubble windows), the flaps down method would be best. The other thing to consider is slow down time. With flaps, you’re already there, which may invalidate the extra descent rate you had in a clean configuration. Fire extinguishers: Dry powder would be a nightmare in flight and for cleanup afterward (minor consideration). Halon is my choice (with a vent directed toward my face). So, the ticket is to know your airplane and do what is best under the circumstances. There may not be just one best way of making an emergency descent. I do agree that getting the airplane on the ground ASAP, should an inflight fire occur, is the primary consideration. This was a simulator emphasized training item when I was at the airline. Time is of the essence.
@@flybyairplane3528 Not anymore expensive than a cheeseburger run with a friend, and Halon is still available. The thought of dry powder in an airplane...😝
Another thing that should be considered is flap gap seals. On a Cessna, they reduce a fair amount of drag and extend the gliding distance with flaps up. The effect in a clean descent is going to be a pitch up from normal in order to control airspeed, which will result in a reduction of VSI. Once again, know your airplane and experiment with different configurations before the “exciting moment” arrives.
Its a persistent misconception in the pilot community that Va is reduced with reduced aircraft mass. Where this originated is a complicated mess of misinterpreted bureaucratic regulations stacked on incorrect application of physics/engineering concepts. The details of which I won't go into here, but some of the problem regulations have gone away with the recent switch away from the arbitrarily defined normal, utility, and aerobatic plane categories. For the correct physics explanation see "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators" (now available as a free PDF)
@@mytech6779 This subject of load factor and Va (even though not described as Va in the “AFNA”) begins on page 331. The manual is available as a free document download within ForeFlight, BTW. Reading it is somewhat contradictory and math intensive to the point of being more academic than practical. The turbulence penetration speeds listed for the jets I have flown were constant and variable with gross weight. The smaller aircraft, however, describe Va as variable according to actual gross weight. The higher the mass, or gross weight, the higher the tolerance for speed. The lower the mass, or gross weight, the lower the tolerance. So, as weight reduces, so does published VA. If a single Va is listed in the POH/OM, that Va speed is for the aircraft’s maximum gross weight. Since we rarely fly our little GA aircraft at GW, the actual maneuvering speed flown should be reduced to some factor below the book GW Va listed. It’s really a practical matter of prudence and a recommendation by the manufacturer to be followed, I feel. Aerodynamics are strange bedfellows and I would rather not push the envelope to prove a point that may have been made by the Navy in 1959. I have seen damage and death from a lack of respect for turbulence in the mountains. I will continue to pursue what has kept me in the game for decades.
One time a friend invited me along on short flight and when I arrived at the airport he had already pre-flighted and was ready to go as soon as I jumped in. We did our run up and all seemed perfectly normal. So away we went. We barely got 100 feet off the ground when we smelled and saw smoke. We did a quick return to the field and landed safely. Turns out a bird had built a nest under the manifold somewhere where it was not seen by him and it never caught fire but was smoldering and could have soon burst into flame. That teaches you or reminds you to never skimp or rush through your preflight especially if your plane is parked on the ramp and it has not been flown for several days. Birds are pretty fast at building nests.
Jason: Would power-off and forward slip also be a strategy? Seems to me it would be less to think about as you are struggling to get the fire extinguisher sorted out.
Certainly. As for how fancy you would bother to get depends a lot on altitude [AGL] and landing options. 500ft over a dry lakebed I would just pull all power, slip to get below flap speed, flaps full, and land. At FL200 I'm going pull power, maybe add rudder for slip but mainly work on the extinguisher, then after fire fighting options are gone come back to manual flying looking for a landing spot (closest actual airport if the fire is out, any flat spot if still burning), where I'm landing determines the configuration.
Great video!! I enjoy getting down fast, as I often find I'm on top of the runway! Is it also best practice to always know where your nearest airstrips are at any given time, as learned when microlighting? Cheers!
Descending in a spiral works great if you're over where you'd want to land. I always enforce to my students that sometimes the best places to go may be to the left or right or even behind them. I have noticed a lot of cfi's teaching to stay in the spiral and I'm not sure why, once the descent is started you can roll level, maintain the descent AND keep positive load factors on the plane.
If you had an actual fire in the cockpit which is also filling with smoke, you would understand why you stay in the spiral and get down as fast as possible - the longer you stay in the air with a fire, the less apt you are to survive. In an actual fire emergency, the luxury of picking the best landing spot is minimal at best.
If there were an *actual* cabin fire and I had a lot of altitude to lose, my life is worth more than a bent flap, I might ignore the flap limitation. Vfe takes into account certain levels of very strong wing gusts plus a margin, which I might be flying in smooth air, so the flap very well could take a lot more than Vfe. Although, since I can't test my descent rate with flaps deployed way past Vfe, I can't really say what the difference would be. A fire in the engine compartment might not require such drastic action since I might be able to blow out that fire at high speed with mixture cut and throttle open, and I'm protected by the firewall.
I'm not a pilot, but your comment made me think of something. If we are descending with full flaps beyond Vfe, wouldn't there be a risk of one of the flaps breaking off, resulting in an unrecoverable spin? Even if the flaps are built with additional margin, any wear and tear in the flap connections over years of use could increase the chance of one of the flaps breaking loose. Seems like it would be better to descend in clean configuration, rather then risk a catastrophic flap failure. Though I suppose if our flap did get ripped off, and we entered an uncontrollable spin, we would indeed descend much, much faster... so... there's that! :)
@@jtvatsim1498 The Vfe flap limitation is set by FAA standards defined in FAR Part 23. I don't have it memorized, but the flap speed ensures zero structural stress including if you encounter a pretty substantial/abnormal gust of wind. The flap would probably not have a catastrophic failure at like 120 knots, but if it was impacted by stress my guess is that it would bend the flap way before you got to the point of separation. If you did have a significant flap failure you would get an uncommanded rolling moment that can probably be overcome with aileron and rudder combined, but that's not a "spin". A spin involves 1 wing being more stalled than the other. This isn't a stalled condition - you're flying at high airspeed. A rolling moment isn't a "spin". Too much rolling moment could be dangerous, sure, but I wouldn't call it a "spin".
jtvatsim exactly my thoughts. If only all pilots would think critically about their actions before doing things there would be less statistics. But hey the mechanics need work too.
@@jtvatsim1498 In my humble opinion there is no need to potentially cause yourself more issues than you already have in an emergency like that, pulling off a forced landing with smoke and maybe even fire in the cabin will be difficult enough with a normal flying aircraft. I wouldnt want the added complexity of bent/missing flaps with assymetric lift that can maybe be compensated by ailerons , or even worse one of the flaps ripping off completely and hitting the elevator behind. The 120 kts clean config descent looks more than fast enough for me and the aircraft wont desintegrade doing that. If flaps are needed to land you could just briefly put the master switch back on, get them down and switch it back off.
At what point do you deploy the fire extinguisher and attempt to extinguish the fire? Before you initiate the descent, or during it? It seems like you started the descent first, (which makes sense) and then perhaps deal with extinguishing it in the descent. I'm also assuming that you could gain passenger assistance in fighting the fire while you as the pilot are trying to descend. Do you mind clarifying? Thanks!
If there are multiple people aboard, have one fly while the other fights the fire. If solo, depends on the circumstances - can the fire be fought (if something reachable, yes, if it's coming through the firewall from the engine, no), and how quickly is it becoming a danger - would you even make it to the ground? I think the "on the ground ASAP at all costs" attitude is not necessarily wise to jump to. I heard a podcast about a survey flight where some of the survey equipment in the back seat caught fire - just one little flame, not super imminent danger. Pilot panicked and dove for the nearest road, fixated on getting on the ground ASAP. Hit power lines, killed the operator-technician and severely injured the pilot. Could have killed power to the (not-flight-critical) equipment, had technician fight fire, made an expedited return to the nearest airport, and debriefed it over beers.
I was surprised to hear there is a debate about this. I thought everyone knew that in most airplanes you come down faster when clean and steeper when dirty.
Would you pull the mixture and fuel shutoff valve as well? im a CFI and trying to find the best way to teach this maneuver. I learned it that way; pulling fuel shut off valve, mixture, master off, bank 45 and descend
Interesting Jason. I was taught the forward slip method for emergency descent. There are a couple of advantages with this method: simplicity (low pilot overhead), the ability to maneuver to your target landing spot while maintaining the aggressive descent profile and slipping away from smoke/fire. But you’ve got me thinking. Now I have to experiment. If the rates of descent are comparable then I’d choose the slip every time.
Jason, I teach my students that once they establish Vno in 45° bank, and find a field, to roll wings level while maintaining Vno (or higher if real fire) until the fire is out. I don't necessarily treat it like a spiraling descent. And once pitch is maintained, there are no more negative Gs on the airplane. Is this wrong? Is there something I should be considering here?
I rather use the flaps down spiral. Better airspeed control, You dont need a 60 degree turn, and also it is not as wide and wild descend (in case you have to descend between clouds). When demo with flaps is also better for the engine. Shock cooling matters..
Depends on the aircraft. From what I recall of training (I've not flown in a long time but plan to get back into it soon) slipping a Cessna 172 doesn't really do much, the slip angle is small even at full rudder and it doesn't cause the airplane to come down very fast. A Citabria by comparison if you give full rudder you're basically lying on the side of the cabin and coming down like a brick. And the ASK-21 glider I got my glider rating in will turn practically sideways - felt like 45 degrees, probably closer to 30 degrees in reality but that's still huge - but because the fuselage is so sleek it still doesn't descend all that quickly like that, you're really screwed if the spoilers are jammed in that thing. RV-7 is somewhere in the middle between the Cessna 172 and Citabria. So some aircraft will come down really fast with a slip, others it doesn't do very much.
The real question is what is the fastest way to shed energy? And while the specific config will vary with the type of plane and its engineering design limits, generically the config will be gear out, spoilers if available, fast, slipping, and under high G-load(steep spiral) to combine high parasitic drag with high induced drag over the longest flight path in the shortest time. (energy is force*distance) However, I do see the argument for desiring flaps on an off-field landing.
Depends on the aircraft. In my experience some will plummet if you put them in a slip, while others (including the Cessna 172 he's flying) it does hardly anything. Flaps and gear have a maximum speed, so it's a debate of if you'd do better clean and very fast versus flaps and gear out and slower. This too probably depends on the airplane. Though in a truly life-threatening emergency you could probably put flaps and gear out and go fast - might damage the aircraft but you don't really care. Damaged flaps could put you in a really bad situation, but gear the limit is usually the doors, not the gear legs themselves (which are among the toughest parts of the airplane). If your life is at stake, drop the gear and point 'er down, who cares if the gear doors rip off! Likewise, engine idle, prop full forward (if the prop is controllable) and cowl flaps open (if equipped) for whatever drag they add - idle, cowl flaps open, and fast will shock-cool the engine, but again not your problem at that point.
What is DPE? I remember Jason put up a video about emergency decents a while ago, I suggested adding a slip and Jason answered that's possibly a bad idea. I think that was due to the descent being done with Flaps - if you do it clean, I'd been hoping it migth be permissible. Also, what about trying to increase the induced drag by pulling back back on the yoke, while increasing bank angle?
Jason, Is the slight advantage in vertical speed worth the added speed carried into a no-flap landing? Given the magnitude of difference in energy between landing at Vs and VS0, the likelihood for injury is greater with more speed. I teach the second method for this reason, but am always open to new techniques.
if your feet were on fire would this matter to you? To me it would. An extra 500 to 1,000 ft a minute might save your life. I'm working on my commercial and the steep spirals are for this purpose. I'd never use flaps early though my Mooney M20E has a manual flap system so electrical doesn't matter. If I'm cruising at 10,000 ft on fire though...it will still take me 5 minutes to get down at 2,000 fpm so I'm diving as fast as I can. I'd probably push it to Vne.
@@gringoloco8576 Like all things aviation "it depends" what is your altitude, what terrain are you over, what type of fire/how intense, use of fire extinguisher, etc. Check out descent rates in the type you fly. A C150 will be different that a Cirrus.
I agree, if you've gotten down quickly with no flaps you will be touching down at a faster speed and the faster speed could be deadly. Shame if you successfully put out the fire only to be severely injured during the landing. IMHO.
Would you really need to stay at the top of the white arc at flaps full in a fire emergency? It’s not like you will be too worried about stressing the flap mechanism since the airframe will be property of the insurance company afterwards.
If a VFR pilot gets stuck on top and sees a hole in the cloud cover, a spiral dive is the best thing to do as you go straight down. A forward slip might cause you to miss the hole in the cloud and it will take longer to descend.
How about flaps down, roll left, left rudder and use that fuselage as a speed brake allowing you to roll further left to dump the lift ... of course all controls in balance.
So... a couple of questions (some dumber than others) 1- Why 45 degrees? Why not 60? 2- Trim or not? I had one instructor call me out for not trimming for the sustained 720 turn. I don't like to trim in turns because it requires re-trimming again when you go wings back to level. Also, if you trim it to adequately keep the attitude required for yellow arc at 45 (or 60) degrees of bank it will be WAY out of trim when leveling the wings and require A LOT of push down to keep the plane from wildly pitching up. 3- What about a spin? That's a very fast way of getting down while keeping the plane structurally safe (as long as you fully recover shy of reaching the ground, otherwise the structure might get compromised).
I'd be curious on the answers to these as well. Though on 3- I'm not sure how many pilots would be brave (foolish?) enough to attempt an intentional spin in an airplane that's also on fire... :)
@@jdoe4983 war thunder XD 1. Cabin fire 2. Put into spin 3. Structural failure Thanks god it is just a game! In real life 720° at 45° bank will be enough that my soul thanks me later lmao
Definitely trim it...lessens your workload at a stressful time and improves speed control. Remember you're going to be getting that fire extinguisher going, opening the window, closing it, using the cklist (if time permits), so having a hand free will come in handy.
@@markg4459 … Acknowledged, but it can get quite out of control when you level the wings if you forgot (due to stress, workload, etc) to be ready to push down hard and take a couple of seconds to react. And… you would have your throttle hand available anyway.
And just fyi. Another partner and I were getting set to go up in our warrior. We had been having issues with where to mount our fire extinguisher, for that reason another partner had set it to the side of the pilots seat. My partner didnt "agree" with that positioning and threw it into the backseat,,, the pin came out , it went of....... thank jeebus we were sitting on the ground!!! Couldn't breathe Couldn't see..
How does a *full* forward slip stack up? I would think that being able to keep speed *_down_* might slow a fire. Also, if the fire could be blown to the _side_ it might buy you some time before it burns through the firewall (assuming it was an engine fire). I have seen descent rates well above 2500/FPM with a *full* forward slip (stomping *full* rudder and *full* opposite aileron). It allows a heavy "nose down" attitude without reaching either VNE or VFE.
03:21 You have 55 degrees of bank without flaps at almost 2k per minute descend. But with flaps (See 04:50) you are using only 40 degrees of bank to show "that is not as effective as without flaps". Why 40 degrees only bank with flaps?? G's are withing limits for 45.. I used to teach them with flaps and 45 degree bank and got almost the same fpm descend and not wild 60 degree turn at warp speed very wide turns. That, for a new pilot is almost an aerobatic turn that could easily mess up the student or new pilot senses and produce Lost of Control.. Thanks for the video anyway. Im a retired CFI.
Is it okay to close the throttle and zoom down with high speed like that? I had the impression that it’ll cool the engine too fast and can crack a cylinder head.
Not good for the engine, but not as big a problem on a 172 as it would be on a higher performance aircraft, especially anything turbocharged. But in an emergency situation that's the least of your worries.
My MEI checkride exaimer had me go vne we actually raced who can loose 3000 feet the fastest. I went by what my schools policy was and climbed back up and he went vne needless to say he won. He beat my time by double.... Or is it half? lol
As a skydive pilot I’ve done a similar descent every flight. Except there’s no real benefit for the turn in the descent. Double the speed = quadruple the drag. And in smooth air you can go close to Vne and get a better descent. But I would never bring power to idle due to shock cooling.
I think light GA planes should have manual flaps, like my Dad’s first plane, the flying sink (Piper Tri-Pacer). Once when we were flying local in NE Ohio, right off the lake, at about 3000 ft AGL we blew an oil line, no fire but lots of thing smoke. Anyway, I believe he shut the electric headed back towards the airport, but knowing we were not going to make it he landed in a grass field.
Earlier Cessna 172s had manual flaps - I learned to fly in such (a shitbox '64 model). Worked fine after some maintenance, and operating them wasn't all that much effort. I'm guessing the main reason they switched to electric was that an electric flap system is actually mechanically a lot simpler, especially in a high wing Cessna where the Johnson-bar on the floor has to be connected through a series of linkages up to the flaps on the wings. Any of which being worn or out of alignment will cause the system to bind or malfunction (I've seen that happen on another airplane's manual gear - it was an amphibian, she almost made an unplanned and illegal water landing in a nearby lake, but managed to get the gear down). Meanwhile electric flaps has a simple servo-actuator connected almost directly to the flaps, far less to break, get out of adjustment or alignment, and so on. The same trend is happening with elevator trim, older airplanes had cable-actuated trim, some later added electric trim as a convenience, but many now have dispensed with the manual trim and use only electric trim that requires only a servo-actuator at the tail, no cables or linkages all the way back from the cockpit - just a couple wires.
@@juansebastianaraque3646 I can agree on this. My only question is what altitude is the threshold for deciding whether to do a spiral descent or a forward slip?
@@michaelcheney1625 I would think that varies based on the plane you fly. However, with a descent rate of over 2000fpm, I wouldn't try spiraling below 1000 ft with a landing spot made ahead.
@@michaelcheney1625 I towed gliders in an O-1 for a while. Rapid descent is important after you kick one off because the next guy is waiting. If you want to go down, you keep the flaps up, roll it on its side, and floor the top rudder. You come down like a free falling coke machine and don't shock-cool the stove up front. You can keep enough revs on to cool it gradually. That's how to do it.
Never liked this recommended system (high bank angle, high speed, constantly changing direction) in the middle of an emergency analysis. Have you (I haven't) ever tried staying wings level, idle power, and pushing over at negative 1 G to wings level nose low? I saw this technique in a USAF training video. They said this was the quickest way to accelerate to higher airspeed. Idle power and high airspeed should get an easier to control high speed descent shouldn't it?
The bank angle is to get higher G-loading, increased load on the wings increases induced drag, bleeding off energy faster. Would be an interesting experiment to see a test of how much difference it makes, comparing for the same aircraft how quickly it descends at the same speed wings level versus in a 45° (or even 60°) bank. I'm guessing, much like putting the aircraft in a slip, how much difference it would make would depend on the aircraft type - some it would make a huge difference while others far less.
Remember that the white arc is a limitation for normal operations. Assuming ANY kind of actual smoke/fire in the cockpit is a reality, we are no longer in normal operations. Exceeding the Vfe or Vno by some small amount is not likely to cause any issue with the structure (again, remember the airplane is on fire) and could gain precious time to get into a good start for the forced landing. On field or off-where additional damage is possible. Do I really care about the white arc??
ok..but wait.... wouldnt putting the airplane in a slip be better for survivability?? Skewing the airflow across the nose and not forcing as much into the cabin? Along with opening the air vent and closing the heater vents to try and force some positive cabin pressure? (in the case of an engine fire) Also, wouldn't a forward slip get you down even faster??? my instructor demonstrated this with a very steep turn and a slip together. we went from 4000ft to trees in like 20 seconds.
I had an experienced pilot with a Cherokee 180 telling me that spiraling was the best way to come down and land. Ok, do it, i said. From the 3,000 agl, he spiraled, but due the high speed when he stopped the spiral, He overshot the runway and could not land. FAiled, I told him, from 3k agl, for my demo.. Hold my budwiser, buddy.. I spun the 24juliet down to about just under 1k, on the base leg of the airport, I then popped flaps and slipped to a nice landing. That was around 1988 before they prohibited spins on Cherokees. LOL..
An emergency DeSantis about losing as much altitude as fast as possible. The Steep spiral is a descending turn designed to keep you over 1 point on the Earth.
An emergency descent is about losing as much altitude as possible as fast as possible. The steel spiral is a descending term design designed to keep the aircraft over one point on the earth
Love your videos. Excellent relevant content very well presented. Two things I might add: 1. Full top rudder definitely helps you get down faster. 2. Smoke can damage your lungs obviously but also your eyes. You will need your eyes all the way down. If possible, open your door. You will probably need the strength of your leg to push against the slipstream. This induces turbulent fresh air into your environment as well as increasing drag. The adrenaline induced by an in flight fire can result in some surprising strength. Also, an open door is less likely to jam from a less than desirable off airport landing.
faster can make you break the wings off. Or get vertigo. You want fpm descend, not just speed. I like to use flaps for that. Saved a couple of students with that method..
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 No flaps is a better option during an emergency, you won't rip the wings off unless you are an idiot who can't manage airspeed.
My Dad taught me how to fly 43 years ago. He was a WW2 and Korean War veteran. He had to make an emergency landing in a P40 (in the water) and again had a cabin fire in an F86 (while making a test flight after major repairs). He had smoke and some fire in both incidents in the cockpit, and getting down fast was paramount to survival. His advice to me was the longer that you stay in the air with a fire the less your chances of a good outcome. It is the only time where altitude is not your friend. In a survival situation remember that VNE has a buffer in it (he was an engineer - helicopter designer at Hughes). Don't be afraid to bump it or even exceed it if your survival depends on it. He had me practice a very tight spiral many a time and I still do it. Many times on my biannual (now called review), I have demonstrated the steep spiral - steeper and tighter than most are comfortable with (always at or near VNE). The steep spiral probably saved my Dad's life on two occasions. Yes, I practice regularly.
DPE on my checkride:
“I smell smoke”....
Me:
“I don’t smell anything”...
DPE:
“I smell SMOKE”
Me:
“I still don’t smell anything”....
DPE:
“Glaring at me intensely”...
ME:
“Ohhhhhhhh”....
And “finally” initiating and emergency decent!!
Hahaha 😂 that’s funny
ha ha +1. There's a deer on the runway, no there isn't, I see a deer, Ohhh - initiating a go around..... LOL it's not only me.
@@MyWTFName
Yep, the mind of a DPE, but I get it “now”...
My biggest goof in a checkride was my pvt. The dpe said this next portion is a simulation. Again I say this is a simmulted engine failure. He pulled power a
So I started pitching for airspeed then looking for best place to land. Doing so I was looking down and the stall horn started to come on. I responded by going full power I immediately caught it and pulled power and lowered aoa. I was like ooops he just laughed.
@@Jdrew27
That’s a good one too!!
2:56 when your instructor becomes a world class actor
Hahaha ... um, yeah. 😳 well, if the aviation thing doesn’t work out I can get a job on daytime TV
As a police firearms/tactics instructor, I always advocated "roleplaying": I.e, run any potential scenario through your mind and work out possible solutions/options. Do this in the course of your day during quiet moments and you'll find that, if you've been imaginative and diligent, chances are you will operate in automatic mode when the actual emergency occurs. During a patrol (or a flight) you should be always thinking "What do I do if the guy on the corner pulls a gun?" (what do I do if oil pressure drops out right now?)
By gaming it out in your head you get a mental "muscle memory" that will allow you to perform functions without having to think about them, since you went through this very situation before- in your head.
Years ago my instructor and I were practicing an emergency descent over Texas from around 6 or 7k down to 1k or so, and we set up exactly as you demonstrate. In a matter of seconds we were both surprised to see the cabin completely fog up! Couldn’t see a thing! I arrested our descent rate and it cleared up in short order, but I’ve never forgotten that lesson. Something to think about when considering temperature, pressure, and humidity.
Losing 5000ft? Lol like that? Lol, that's a brave move. You would've frozen your oil.
@@jasonMB999 shoot...losing 5k feet in Texas means going from 95 to 105.
@@jasonMB999 A bit late, but why would that happen? the oil freezing for going from a low pressure to a higher pressure in a steep descent? couldn't find any info about it, i would really like an explanation, thanks in advance :)
@@markschrodinger there are 2 gauges, oil temp. and oil pressure. Oil temperature is not oil pressure...
For the clean configuration, do you cut power asap as well? Checkride real soon!! Tryna do it all to standard !!!
I live and fly in the mountains, so a consideration for me is mechanical turbulence and adhering to Va (corrected for my weight). Because of that, the descent with full flaps is a better option, or at least one that should be considered should that turbulent environment exist.
As a side note, my 185 has manual flaps, so Master Switch On or Off isn’t a consideration.
Also, if there is a max window opening speed (I have bubble windows), the flaps down method would be best. The other thing to consider is slow down time. With flaps, you’re already there, which may invalidate the extra descent rate you had in a clean configuration.
Fire extinguishers: Dry powder would be a nightmare in flight and for cleanup afterward (minor consideration). Halon is my choice (with a vent directed toward my face).
So, the ticket is to know your airplane and do what is best under the circumstances. There may not be just one best way of making an emergency descent. I do agree that getting the airplane on the ground ASAP, should an inflight fire occur, is the primary consideration. This was a simulator emphasized training item when I was at the airline. Time is of the essence.
MANNY, but could even afford HALON these days even if is still on the market . Cheers 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
@@flybyairplane3528 Not anymore expensive than a cheeseburger run with a friend, and Halon is still available. The thought of dry powder in an airplane...😝
Another thing that should be considered is flap gap seals. On a Cessna, they reduce a fair amount of drag and extend the gliding distance with flaps up. The effect in a clean descent is going to be a pitch up from normal in order to control airspeed, which will result in a reduction of VSI. Once again, know your airplane and experiment with different configurations before the “exciting moment” arrives.
Its a persistent misconception in the pilot community that Va is reduced with reduced aircraft mass. Where this originated is a complicated mess of misinterpreted bureaucratic regulations stacked on incorrect application of physics/engineering concepts. The details of which I won't go into here, but some of the problem regulations have gone away with the recent switch away from the arbitrarily defined normal, utility, and aerobatic plane categories.
For the correct physics explanation see "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators" (now available as a free PDF)
@@mytech6779 This subject of load factor and Va (even though not described as Va in the “AFNA”) begins on page 331. The manual is available as a free document download within ForeFlight, BTW. Reading it is somewhat contradictory and math intensive to the point of being more academic than practical.
The turbulence penetration speeds listed for the jets I have flown were constant and variable with gross weight. The smaller aircraft, however, describe Va as variable according to actual gross weight. The higher the mass, or gross weight, the higher the tolerance for speed. The lower the mass, or gross weight, the lower the tolerance. So, as weight reduces, so does published VA. If a single Va is listed in the POH/OM, that Va speed is for the aircraft’s maximum gross weight. Since we rarely fly our little GA aircraft at GW, the actual maneuvering speed flown should be reduced to some factor below the book GW Va listed.
It’s really a practical matter of prudence and a recommendation by the manufacturer to be followed, I feel. Aerodynamics are strange bedfellows and I would rather not push the envelope to prove a point that may have been made by the Navy in 1959. I have seen damage and death from a lack of respect for turbulence in the mountains. I will continue to pursue what has kept me in the game for decades.
My ears are popping just watching this. It's interesting though how if something exciting enough happens that problem takes care of itself.
One time a friend invited me along on short flight and when I arrived at the airport he had already pre-flighted and was ready to go as soon as I jumped in. We did our run up and all seemed perfectly normal. So away we went. We barely got 100 feet off the ground when we smelled and saw smoke. We did a quick return to the field and landed safely. Turns out a bird had built a nest under the manifold somewhere where it was not seen by him and it never caught fire but was smoldering and could have soon burst into flame. That teaches you or reminds you to never skimp or rush through your preflight especially if your plane is parked on the ramp and it has not been flown for several days. Birds are pretty fast at building nests.
Jason: Would power-off and forward slip also be a strategy? Seems to me it would be less to think about as you are struggling to get the fire extinguisher sorted out.
Certainly. As for how fancy you would bother to get depends a lot on altitude [AGL] and landing options. 500ft over a dry lakebed I would just pull all power, slip to get below flap speed, flaps full, and land. At FL200 I'm going pull power, maybe add rudder for slip but mainly work on the extinguisher, then after fire fighting options are gone come back to manual flying looking for a landing spot (closest actual airport if the fire is out, any flat spot if still burning), where I'm landing determines the configuration.
Great video!! I enjoy getting down fast, as I often find I'm on top of the runway! Is it also best practice to always know where your nearest airstrips are at any given time, as learned when microlighting? Cheers!
Descending in a spiral works great if you're over where you'd want to land. I always enforce to my students that sometimes the best places to go may be to the left or right or even behind them. I have noticed a lot of cfi's teaching to stay in the spiral and I'm not sure why, once the descent is started you can roll level, maintain the descent AND keep positive load factors on the plane.
The reason is simple, maintaining a high bank angle maximizes descent rate. The objective is to get down as quickly as possible.
If you had an actual fire in the cockpit which is also filling with smoke, you would understand why you stay in the spiral and get down as fast as possible - the longer you stay in the air with a fire, the less apt you are to survive. In an actual fire emergency, the luxury of picking the best landing spot is minimal at best.
Posted 10 seconds ago. No views. Wow, the last time I was this early, the whole "last time I was this early" meme was fresh and new.
If there were an *actual* cabin fire and I had a lot of altitude to lose, my life is worth more than a bent flap, I might ignore the flap limitation. Vfe takes into account certain levels of very strong wing gusts plus a margin, which I might be flying in smooth air, so the flap very well could take a lot more than Vfe.
Although, since I can't test my descent rate with flaps deployed way past Vfe, I can't really say what the difference would be.
A fire in the engine compartment might not require such drastic action since I might be able to blow out that fire at high speed with mixture cut and throttle open, and I'm protected by the firewall.
I'm not a pilot, but your comment made me think of something. If we are descending with full flaps beyond Vfe, wouldn't there be a risk of one of the flaps breaking off, resulting in an unrecoverable spin? Even if the flaps are built with additional margin, any wear and tear in the flap connections over years of use could increase the chance of one of the flaps breaking loose. Seems like it would be better to descend in clean configuration, rather then risk a catastrophic flap failure.
Though I suppose if our flap did get ripped off, and we entered an uncontrollable spin, we would indeed descend much, much faster... so... there's that! :)
@@jtvatsim1498 The Vfe flap limitation is set by FAA standards defined in FAR Part 23. I don't have it memorized, but the flap speed ensures zero structural stress including if you encounter a pretty substantial/abnormal gust of wind. The flap would probably not have a catastrophic failure at like 120 knots, but if it was impacted by stress my guess is that it would bend the flap way before you got to the point of separation.
If you did have a significant flap failure you would get an uncommanded rolling moment that can probably be overcome with aileron and rudder combined, but that's not a "spin". A spin involves 1 wing being more stalled than the other. This isn't a stalled condition - you're flying at high airspeed. A rolling moment isn't a "spin". Too much rolling moment could be dangerous, sure, but I wouldn't call it a "spin".
@@aviatortrevor Thanks for the reply! That's a fair point -- you wouldn't be autorotating, so technically not a "spin" in the usual sense.
jtvatsim exactly my thoughts. If only all pilots would think critically about their actions before doing things there would be less statistics. But hey the mechanics need work too.
@@jtvatsim1498 In my humble opinion there is no need to potentially cause yourself more issues than you already have in an emergency like that, pulling off a forced landing with smoke and maybe even fire in the cabin will be difficult enough with a normal flying aircraft. I wouldnt want the added complexity of bent/missing flaps with assymetric lift that can maybe be compensated by ailerons , or even worse one of the flaps ripping off completely and hitting the elevator behind. The 120 kts clean config descent looks more than fast enough for me and the aircraft wont desintegrade doing that. If flaps are needed to land you could just briefly put the master switch back on, get them down and switch it back off.
At what point do you deploy the fire extinguisher and attempt to extinguish the fire? Before you initiate the descent, or during it? It seems like you started the descent first, (which makes sense) and then perhaps deal with extinguishing it in the descent. I'm also assuming that you could gain passenger assistance in fighting the fire while you as the pilot are trying to descend. Do you mind clarifying? Thanks!
Yes.
The planes I fly have specific checklists, as equipment will vary. There should be some guidelines in your POH.
If there are multiple people aboard, have one fly while the other fights the fire. If solo, depends on the circumstances - can the fire be fought (if something reachable, yes, if it's coming through the firewall from the engine, no), and how quickly is it becoming a danger - would you even make it to the ground? I think the "on the ground ASAP at all costs" attitude is not necessarily wise to jump to. I heard a podcast about a survey flight where some of the survey equipment in the back seat caught fire - just one little flame, not super imminent danger. Pilot panicked and dove for the nearest road, fixated on getting on the ground ASAP. Hit power lines, killed the operator-technician and severely injured the pilot. Could have killed power to the (not-flight-critical) equipment, had technician fight fire, made an expedited return to the nearest airport, and debriefed it over beers.
I was surprised to hear there is a debate about this. I thought everyone knew that in most airplanes you come down faster when clean and steeper when dirty.
Would you pull the mixture and fuel shutoff valve as well? im a CFI and trying to find the best way to teach this maneuver. I learned it that way; pulling fuel shut off valve, mixture, master off, bank 45 and descend
Interesting Jason. I was taught the forward slip method for emergency descent. There are a couple of advantages with this method: simplicity (low pilot overhead), the ability to maneuver to your target landing spot while maintaining the aggressive descent profile and slipping away from smoke/fire. But you’ve got me thinking. Now I have to experiment. If the rates of descent are comparable then I’d choose the slip every time.
Jason, I teach my students that once they establish Vno in 45° bank, and find a field, to roll wings level while maintaining Vno (or higher if real fire) until the fire is out. I don't necessarily treat it like a spiraling descent. And once pitch is maintained, there are no more negative Gs on the airplane. Is this wrong? Is there something I should be considering here?
I rather use the flaps down spiral. Better airspeed control, You dont need a 60 degree turn, and also it is not as wide and wild descend (in case you have to descend between clouds). When demo with flaps is also better for the engine. Shock cooling matters..
A lot of airplanes allow slip with and without flaps. Do some more tests spiraling down with severe slip (top rudder).
Depends on the aircraft. From what I recall of training (I've not flown in a long time but plan to get back into it soon) slipping a Cessna 172 doesn't really do much, the slip angle is small even at full rudder and it doesn't cause the airplane to come down very fast. A Citabria by comparison if you give full rudder you're basically lying on the side of the cabin and coming down like a brick. And the ASK-21 glider I got my glider rating in will turn practically sideways - felt like 45 degrees, probably closer to 30 degrees in reality but that's still huge - but because the fuselage is so sleek it still doesn't descend all that quickly like that, you're really screwed if the spoilers are jammed in that thing. RV-7 is somewhere in the middle between the Cessna 172 and Citabria. So some aircraft will come down really fast with a slip, others it doesn't do very much.
The real question is what is the fastest way to shed energy? And while the specific config will vary with the type of plane and its engineering design limits, generically the config will be gear out, spoilers if available, fast, slipping, and under high G-load(steep spiral) to combine high parasitic drag with high induced drag over the longest flight path in the shortest time. (energy is force*distance) However, I do see the argument for desiring flaps on an off-field landing.
Depends on the aircraft. In my experience some will plummet if you put them in a slip, while others (including the Cessna 172 he's flying) it does hardly anything. Flaps and gear have a maximum speed, so it's a debate of if you'd do better clean and very fast versus flaps and gear out and slower. This too probably depends on the airplane. Though in a truly life-threatening emergency you could probably put flaps and gear out and go fast - might damage the aircraft but you don't really care. Damaged flaps could put you in a really bad situation, but gear the limit is usually the doors, not the gear legs themselves (which are among the toughest parts of the airplane). If your life is at stake, drop the gear and point 'er down, who cares if the gear doors rip off! Likewise, engine idle, prop full forward (if the prop is controllable) and cowl flaps open (if equipped) for whatever drag they add - idle, cowl flaps open, and fast will shock-cool the engine, but again not your problem at that point.
I pulled a high speed, high G spiraling descent with some top rudder added, DPE wasn't happy ;-)
What is DPE?
I remember Jason put up a video about emergency decents a while ago, I suggested adding a slip and Jason answered that's possibly a bad idea. I think that was due to the descent being done with Flaps - if you do it clean, I'd been hoping it migth be permissible.
Also, what about trying to increase the induced drag by pulling back back on the yoke, while increasing bank angle?
I did a negative g pushover while keeping foreign relations. Goose was pissed.
Much easier to post a no smoking sign and hope for the best.
Jason,
Is the slight advantage in vertical speed worth the added speed carried into a no-flap landing? Given the magnitude of difference in energy between landing at Vs and VS0, the likelihood for injury is greater with more speed. I teach the second method for this reason, but am always open to new techniques.
Agree it takes time to slow back down
if your feet were on fire would this matter to you? To me it would. An extra 500 to 1,000 ft a minute might save your life. I'm working on my commercial and the steep spirals are for this purpose. I'd never use flaps early though my Mooney M20E has a manual flap system so electrical doesn't matter. If I'm cruising at 10,000 ft on fire though...it will still take me 5 minutes to get down at 2,000 fpm so I'm diving as fast as I can. I'd probably push it to Vne.
@@gringoloco8576 Like all things aviation "it depends" what is your altitude, what terrain are you over, what type of fire/how intense, use of fire extinguisher, etc. Check out descent rates in the type you fly. A C150 will be different that a Cirrus.
I agree, if you've gotten down quickly with no flaps you will be touching down at a faster speed and the faster speed could be deadly. Shame if you successfully put out the fire only to be severely injured during the landing. IMHO.
Would you really need to stay at the top of the white arc at flaps full in a fire emergency? It’s not like you will be too worried about stressing the flap mechanism since the airframe will be property of the insurance company afterwards.
If a VFR pilot gets stuck on top and sees a hole in the cloud cover, a spiral dive is the best thing to do as you go straight down. A forward slip might cause you to miss the hole in the cloud and it will take longer to descend.
How about flaps down, roll left, left rudder and use that fuselage as a speed brake allowing you to roll further left to dump the lift ... of course all controls in balance.
So... a couple of questions (some dumber than others)
1- Why 45 degrees? Why not 60?
2- Trim or not? I had one instructor call me out for not trimming for the sustained 720 turn. I don't like to trim in turns because it requires re-trimming again when you go wings back to level. Also, if you trim it to adequately keep the attitude required for yellow arc at 45 (or 60) degrees of bank it will be WAY out of trim when leveling the wings and require A LOT of push down to keep the plane from wildly pitching up.
3- What about a spin? That's a very fast way of getting down while keeping the plane structurally safe (as long as you fully recover shy of reaching the ground, otherwise the structure might get compromised).
I'd be curious on the answers to these as well. Though on 3- I'm not sure how many pilots would be brave (foolish?) enough to attempt an intentional spin in an airplane that's also on fire... :)
Why would you purposely put yourself into a spin? What a terrible idea. You just turned 1emergency into 2.
@@jdoe4983 war thunder XD
1. Cabin fire
2. Put into spin
3. Structural failure
Thanks god it is just a game! In real life 720° at 45° bank will be enough that my soul thanks me later lmao
Definitely trim it...lessens your workload at a stressful time and improves speed control. Remember you're going to be getting that fire extinguisher going, opening the window, closing it, using the cklist (if time permits), so having a hand free will come in handy.
@@markg4459 … Acknowledged, but it can get quite out of control when you level the wings if you forgot (due to stress, workload, etc) to be ready to push down hard and take a couple of seconds to react. And… you would have your throttle hand available anyway.
And just fyi.
Another partner and I were getting set to go up in our warrior.
We had been having issues with where to mount our fire extinguisher, for that reason another partner had set it to the side of the pilots seat.
My partner didnt "agree" with that positioning and threw it into the backseat,,, the pin came out , it went of....... thank jeebus we were sitting on the ground!!!
Couldn't breathe
Couldn't see..
Side slipping ok while descending? Full high side rudder ?
what are the ways to know wind direction in this case?
How does a *full* forward slip stack up? I would think that being able to keep speed *_down_* might slow a fire. Also, if the fire could be blown to the _side_ it might buy you some time before it burns through the firewall (assuming it was an engine fire). I have seen descent rates well above 2500/FPM with a *full* forward slip (stomping *full* rudder and *full* opposite aileron). It allows a heavy "nose down" attitude without reaching either VNE or VFE.
That’s exactly what I thought. I think a slip would give you close to the same rate of descent and keep your airspeed low.
But you want speed to put out the fire, higher speed leans the mixture to possible overwhelm the fire, so some extra speed good in this case,
During commercial I don't remember being able to peg the VSI using this technique in my M20C.
Flaps down and Slip or Slide ... left roll and right rudder to push the side of the fuselage into the air stream.
What if you'd use the rudder to maintain white arc instead of pitch?
If there’s a fire, do you also turn the fuel off?
How much decent would a spin induce compared to the steep spiral.
I've got the best of both worlds with a 1960 Cessna 175A with mechanical flaps.
03:21 You have 55 degrees of bank without flaps at almost 2k per minute descend. But with flaps (See 04:50) you are using only 40 degrees of bank to show "that is not as effective as without flaps". Why 40 degrees only bank with flaps?? G's are withing limits for 45..
I used to teach them with flaps and 45 degree bank and got almost the same fpm descend and not wild 60 degree turn at warp speed very wide turns. That, for a new pilot is almost an aerobatic turn that could easily mess up the student or new pilot senses and produce Lost of Control.. Thanks for the video anyway. Im a retired CFI.
THANK U Maestro! 🌟 🌟 🌟 🌟 🌟
Any recommendations on smoke hoods ?
C&D zodiac/Safran.
Is it okay to close the throttle and zoom down with high speed like that? I had the impression that it’ll cool the engine too fast and can crack a cylinder head.
Limit practice emergency descents to -2000 feet and it shouldn't be a problem
Not good for the engine, but not as big a problem on a 172 as it would be on a higher performance aircraft, especially anything turbocharged. But in an emergency situation that's the least of your worries.
My MEI checkride exaimer had me go vne we actually raced who can loose 3000 feet the fastest. I went by what my schools policy was and climbed back up and he went vne needless to say he won. He beat my time by double.... Or is it half? lol
So On the Multi you descended quicker with flaps correct?
@@leoarjuncrasto flaps retracted yes. You decend faster with flaps up.
@@Jdrew27 thanks
Not smart at all. There have been aircraft that came apart due to flutter caused by imbalances in control surfaces at several knots _below_ Vne
Bad idea. New airplanes can take Vne. Not the old ones in most flight schools lately. Stay out of yellow line., Im using it after you..
As a skydive pilot I’ve done a similar descent every flight. Except there’s no real benefit for the turn in the descent. Double the speed = quadruple the drag. And in smooth air you can go close to Vne and get a better descent. But I would never bring power to idle due to shock cooling.
The turn increases G loading, which increases load on the wings and thus induced drag. Pulling Gs helps to bleed off energy.
If you want to lose altitude fast, why not doing forward slip? It loses altitude fast too, and you also won't get as much of airspeed.
I think light GA planes should have manual flaps, like my Dad’s first plane, the flying sink (Piper Tri-Pacer). Once when we were flying local in NE Ohio, right off the lake, at about 3000 ft AGL we blew an oil line, no fire but lots of thing smoke. Anyway, I believe he shut the electric headed back towards the airport, but knowing we were not going to make it he landed in a grass field.
Earlier Cessna 172s had manual flaps - I learned to fly in such (a shitbox '64 model). Worked fine after some maintenance, and operating them wasn't all that much effort. I'm guessing the main reason they switched to electric was that an electric flap system is actually mechanically a lot simpler, especially in a high wing Cessna where the Johnson-bar on the floor has to be connected through a series of linkages up to the flaps on the wings. Any of which being worn or out of alignment will cause the system to bind or malfunction (I've seen that happen on another airplane's manual gear - it was an amphibian, she almost made an unplanned and illegal water landing in a nearby lake, but managed to get the gear down). Meanwhile electric flaps has a simple servo-actuator connected almost directly to the flaps, far less to break, get out of adjustment or alignment, and so on. The same trend is happening with elevator trim, older airplanes had cable-actuated trim, some later added electric trim as a convenience, but many now have dispensed with the manual trim and use only electric trim that requires only a servo-actuator at the tail, no cables or linkages all the way back from the cockpit - just a couple wires.
What’s your opinion on performing a full forward slip as an emergency descent?
Was wondering the same thing.
Ditto. My CFI mentioned this as a good idea if you're relatively low and have a landing spot made ahead. No need to lose it by spiraling.
@@juansebastianaraque3646 I can agree on this. My only question is what altitude is the threshold for deciding whether to do a spiral descent or a forward slip?
@@michaelcheney1625 I would think that varies based on the plane you fly. However, with a descent rate of over 2000fpm, I wouldn't try spiraling below 1000 ft with a landing spot made ahead.
@@michaelcheney1625 I towed gliders in an O-1 for a while. Rapid descent is important after you kick one off because the next guy is waiting. If you want to go down, you keep the flaps up, roll it on its side, and floor the top rudder. You come down like a free falling coke machine and don't shock-cool the stove up front. You can keep enough revs on to cool it gradually. That's how to do it.
3:32 Oh look, there's my house.
Never liked this recommended system (high bank angle, high speed, constantly changing direction) in the middle of an emergency analysis. Have you (I haven't) ever tried staying wings level, idle power, and pushing over at negative 1 G to wings level nose low? I saw this technique in a USAF training video. They said this was the quickest way to accelerate to higher airspeed. Idle power and high airspeed should get an easier to control high speed descent shouldn't it?
The bank angle is to get higher G-loading, increased load on the wings increases induced drag, bleeding off energy faster. Would be an interesting experiment to see a test of how much difference it makes, comparing for the same aircraft how quickly it descends at the same speed wings level versus in a 45° (or even 60°) bank. I'm guessing, much like putting the aircraft in a slip, how much difference it would make would depend on the aircraft type - some it would make a huge difference while others far less.
Remember that the white arc is a limitation for normal operations. Assuming ANY kind of actual smoke/fire in the cockpit is a reality, we are no longer in normal operations. Exceeding the Vfe or Vno by some small amount is not likely to cause any issue with the structure (again, remember the airplane is on fire) and could gain precious time to get into a good start for the forced landing. On field or off-where additional damage is possible. Do I really care about the white arc??
ok..but wait.... wouldnt putting the airplane in a slip be better for survivability?? Skewing the airflow across the nose and not forcing as much into the cabin? Along with opening the air vent and closing the heater vents to try and force some positive cabin pressure? (in the case of an engine fire) Also, wouldn't a forward slip get you down even faster??? my instructor demonstrated this with a very steep turn and a slip together. we went from 4000ft to trees in like 20 seconds.
I had an experienced pilot with a Cherokee 180 telling me that spiraling was the best way to come down and land. Ok, do it, i said. From the 3,000 agl, he spiraled, but due the high speed when he stopped the spiral, He overshot the runway and could not land. FAiled,
I told him, from 3k agl, for my demo.. Hold my budwiser, buddy.. I spun the 24juliet down to about just under 1k, on the base leg of the airport, I then popped flaps and slipped to a nice landing. That was around 1988 before they prohibited spins on Cherokees. LOL..
Who could not like this video/ info
Smoke hood oh ya 😱
There's ALWAYS a hater 😋
Just don’t snap the vertical stab off. Don’t look back in a Piper Tomahawk, you won’t like what you see.
The mighty Traumahawk!
Third (and fastest) option: open door, exit aircraft then open parachute. 😀
Surprise skydiving lesson!
Yeah. And let your plane kill someone on the ground. But that’s ok i guess you’re safe
Emergency descent vs Steep Spiral. Difference? Why use each one??? Comments?
An emergency DeSantis about losing as much altitude as fast as possible. The Steep spiral is a descending turn designed to keep you over 1 point on the Earth.
An emergency descent is about losing as much altitude as possible as fast as possible. The steel spiral is a descending term design designed to keep the aircraft over one point on the earth
Love your videos. Excellent relevant content very well presented. Two things I might add: 1. Full top rudder definitely helps you get down faster. 2. Smoke can damage your lungs obviously but also your eyes. You will need your eyes all the way down. If possible, open your door. You will probably need the strength of your leg to push against the slipstream. This induces turbulent fresh air into your environment as well as increasing drag. The adrenaline induced by an in flight fire can result in some surprising strength. Also, an open door is less likely to jam from a less than desirable off airport landing.
Can anyone let me know what is that thing clamped onto the Right wing strut of the cessna??
I think a SAM is the fastest way. 😁
Definitely not discharging a halon fire extinguisher to practice a simulated fire 😂😂😂😂
Remember, ground always wins too, if the fire hasn’t gone out, fly the airplane and get it on the ground.
First to like! Weehoo.
🙌
How about a third school of thought - the nose dive!
No flaps is always faster
faster can make you break the wings off. Or get vertigo. You want fpm descend, not just speed. I like to use flaps for that. Saved a couple of students with that method..
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 No flaps is a better option during an emergency, you won't rip the wings off unless you are an idiot who can't manage airspeed.