The Personal is Political: is identity politics eating itself?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2016
- It seems today that all discussions begin with a declaration of identity - “speaking as a parent, speaking as a woman, speaking as a black man” - with the aim of lending moral authority to the statement which follows. Identity politics, though most pronounced on campus and in activist circles in which groups mount competing claims of victimhood based on their racial, gender, sexual, religious and cultural identities, is today thoroughly mainstream with applications for employment and state grants demanding information on these categories. Filmed at the Battle of Ideas, this fascinating debate explores the hollowing-out of political life which occurs when the primary aim of political activism is no longer to bring about social change, but to enforce the right to have one’s self-declared identity respected.
The speakers are Dr Joanna Williams, author and academic; education editor, spiked, Julie Bindel, journalist, author, broadcaster and feminist activist; research fellow, Lincoln University, Andrew Doyle, stand-up comedian; playwright; biographer, Sabrina Harris, technical author; longtime gamer; regular commentator on issues relating to freedom of speech and internet subcultures, and Jake Unsworth trainee solicitor, Bond Dickinson; convenor, Debating Matters Ambassadors. The panel is chaired by Claire Fox, director, Institute of Ideas; panellist, BBC Radio 4's Moral Maze.
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The girl at 1:05:24 is a lost cause. Here we have people talking about identity politics being self-destructive & narcissistic & she latches onto the darling of identity politics,-trans ideology,- & asks why that particular identity is not included on the panel. Never mind that there are no Asian, black, Latino/Latina, or American Indian people, no disabled people (someone who is deaf, someone who is blind, someone paraplegic, etc.), no one who identified as bisexual, no one representing 99% of the countries of the world, no people being treated for mental illnesses, etc. ad nauseum. She is an example of just the kind of narcissism they discuss when she self-identifies & wants to know why she isn't represented on the panel, even though the trans topic was only a small part of the discussion, not the focus of the program.
I know they even discussed how it was unhelpful to claim only one group could talk about a topic. It seems she didn't listen at all, talk about confirmation bias. What was the point in even coming.
Imagine her against bindel🙈
I regret clicking on your timestamp.
The open discussion held in this video was as refreshing as dipping your head into a mountain stream on a hot summers day.
These videos have criminally low views considering how compelling they can be at the event.
My thoughts exactly.
I really like the description of the 3rd choice; speak up, shut up, shut the other up. Which I see as the destruction of free speech.
I agree. But when people use swearwords they won't be monetized which means the views reduce quite a bit. Compelling stuff though!
Identity Politics has become Identity Addiction.
If Gabor Mate is correct, that "all addiction is rooted in trauma", then Identity Politics/Identity Addiction is also rooted in trauma.
I have not been able to disprove this assertion yet.
“speaking as a parent, speaking as a woman, speaking as a black man” - with the aim of lending moral authority to the statement which follows"
Not moral authority but epistemic authority.
I once had an opinion that I could just express as a human being, now I have to explain why I have an opinion based on my gender, colour of skin, whether I'm a mother or not, if I've been poor and my indigenous status. Then, I get back in the box until I have to explain it all over again. I miss being human.
Women seem to get no-platformed in a lightening flash whereas men are able to say what they want a bit more.
It seems like the world is dealing with a sort of identity crisis thanks to globalization and things like the Internet, identity politics is an answer to that.
Nice one
Social media has massively played into it. Twitter and tumblr especially. Also, legions of post graduates of nonsense modules such as gender studies, saddled with crushing debt. They need to pay the bills by working for Buzzfeed etc.
Identity Addiction is rooted in trauma.
Will somebody tell me why anybody would ban Julie, she has an acute intellect which is great.
Because the trans rights ideologues who have the support of 80% of the population like to play the victim & get venues & social media to de-platform those who refuse to say there's such a thing as a "girl penis" or those who believe the definition of woman is an "adult human female", accusing them of being bigoted & transphobic & even engaging in hate speech. Yes, it's gotten that absurd.
She needs to move to the middle East, see how she gets on there lol.
Great video. Thanks for the upload!
People need to stand up and not be silenced to protect free speech. I agree with the panel that identity politics is in the main arena and not just in academia. Your ideas should be more important than your personal characteristics and we need to ensure open debate of the different ideas. If we end free speech we also end all our other freedoms. More rational debate based on evidence is required. I feel like we are increasingly living in an Orwellian world where compelled speech in terms of pronouns on the one hand sits against those that have been no platformed when those individuals have not conformed to certain group identity politics.
54:33 Best point in the entire debate.
Awesome talk.
So contradictory to say that social contructionism makes us what we are and go against biological determinism yet say a woman is an adult human female. I think femalism will take over where feminism started to go wrong - quite some time ago. Also, it's people who tend to be left leaning that are the post-modernist, identity political ideologues. You need to come out of the left as some of what you say regarding women is true but making the personal political is also a bullying form of behaviour - although I get bringing domestic violence out form behind closed doors was a good move.
I've never seen a video without an upload date before
I never put two and two together that Identity Politics really is narcissism
She said lady stick. Hilarious
Wow Bindel...already claiming MRA are behind the Trans movement and it's the patriarchy's fault...god it's always men's fault isn't it Julie!!! Give it a rest women.
She doesn’t help her case by blaming the patriarchy .. this is completely lost on her though
"but to enforce the right to have one’s self-declared identity respected."
The latter does constitute social change if the social group to with you belong and/or identify do not have social equality and/or freedoms.
@ 38:47 😩😩😭😭😭😭🙏🏾💯
It's fascinating to me how adopting a social constructionist belief system, as in 100% instead of accepting that gender identity is both biological and learned, can lead to an absolute intolerance of the transgender experience. A complete refusal to acknowledge their very identity. Dismissed as simply a 'feeling.' Even if we cannot prove definitively that there's a biological factor in transgender and lesbian/gay identities, it doesn't mean it's not there. I believe we have to entertain the possibility to further research and gain more understanding. Just for the sake of knowledge, not politics.
This is the same belief system that can justify 'conversion therapy', psychological counseling to a turn a lesbian or gay person straight. So many contradictions turn up. If we can learn gender and orientation, it's only logical that we can unlearn same sex attraction. That's my interpretation, not my belief.
What I'm getting at here is that the very ideology that justifies the 'trans-exclusionist feminist' belief system that wants to obliterate 'transgender' as an identity, also lends itself quite directly to obliterating lesbian or gay identity, propping up the anti-gay argument that it's a choice.
I don't have an opinion about trans women being included in feminism, I'm only critiquing the social constructionist justification for exclusion. It doesn't hold up if you accept trans people as being as valid as gay or straight people, not a choice, I personally believe it is valid. Orientation can go to the core of personal identity, the formation of a family, etc, just as transgender identity can. It goes back far beyond the 1950s when looking at Native American, Indian, and Thai societies for example.
I'm not defending the bizarre and extreme trends we're seeing around gender and pronoun issues, but the anti-trans perspective in this debate seems rooted, or justified, in social constructionist theory. Just as so many of the problems that have grown out of identity politics are rooted in the same theories. Treated as fact and dependent on a denial of any science that might contradict these theories.
My take on it is that the social justice warriors and their narcissism are destroying the LGBTQ movement (along with feminism and racial justice movements), making a joke of the very serious issues that many trans people are facing. Creating a cloud of confusion. I don't think most true transgender people are necessarily on board, I've seen quite a few critics. 'True' as opposed to gender fluid people now demanding that society recognizes one of 70 gender identities.
I think most of we LGBTQ people are just watching this all play out like everyone else. Most queer people I know can't even keep up and don't care to. There are a small minority of voices who have taken control of the movement through social and other media, they're increasingly influential in government and corporate institutions. It's a mess.
This is so interesting to listen to. What I find interesting is the amplification of capitalism on ideologies in our society.
2020 :(
Identity politics is basically the business of those excluding people from marriage, adoption, abortion or equal rights
for just having another gender or sexuality than they have.
The Lesbian woman is so cool and funny..
Identity Politics, Feminism, etc. have reached Imperial Status. This phenomenon has happened with all human groups and since Women and POC are humans it was only a matter of time to them to start behaving like this.
Give them a good defeat to chew. Some common sense will eventually start to appear.
@37:35 - Fantastic Commentary by Julie. She absolutely nails it here.
Congrats to the ole UK!! Brexit Now!!
This is the type of debate where one finds themselves thinking "yes but..." every 15 seconds. The irony here is that this panel has basically created a safe space where they can talk about these issues without having to respond to different perspectives. It is always interesting to note that in these sorts of debates no one shows any indication that they have engaged with any *theory* that offers a different perspective. There's no one speaking about where they agree or disgaree with bell hooks, or Angela Davis, or anyone else with whom they could probably have a more interesting, nuanced conversation. It's all "the students these days" and other straw men. A frustratingly shallow, skewed, risk-free discussion.
That actually gets brought up at around the 42 minute mark with an explanation from the panel organizer.
No trans POC on the panel? #problematic
Ironic
What Black person is on the panel?
Wrong question. You should be asking which of the panellists identifies as white.
Julie rules!
Include Ann Coulter on that panel.
It's eating the children
feminists started the civil war because they commodified emotional labor, now the terfs and nonterfs fight each other endlessly by saying it is too much emotional labor to educate one another...
the personal was supposed to be political but feminism made the personal into capitalism. there was nothing revolutionary with identity politics, just the continuation of the status quo, with a high-minded need to civilize barbarians, not learning from the lessons of colonialism of the past.
without academic-imperialist-American-psychological-association-feminism, the neoliberal colonialism of the mind would not be possible
Feminists caving the way...
Dr Williams is hot 🥵
Bindel...there are right wing feminists
Bindel started MAN HATING in the UK , not a example of ONE.@strontiumXnitrate
You can't have male only speakers on a plan about women's rights...
To say at the end “we know it’s nonsense we know it’s ridiculous” 🤦🏻♂️ seriously!!?? Even if they think that trans issues are not as trans people say they are .... is it not her position to talk about why a huge influx of trans people have come out over the recent decade? Help people don’t just discredit how they feel even if you don’t agree that feelings are some thing to consider politically.
John Stocker , because according to Scott. She is not a trans. Typical of identity politics.
Unless you have old Norse ancestors, they/them pronouns are cultural appropriation.
I didn't like the MRA bashing. Just because their are branch groups who fight for mens rights in extreme ways does not make the MRA a bad group. In fact they have a lot of valuable social concerns for the welfare of boys and men. I guess if u fight for boys and men u must be a hate group.
The MRA subreddit gets a bad rep on Reddit.
There are problems with identity politics but this video is not a discussion of that, it's simply whinging.
Lived experience is not objective and doesn't need to be.
This video has just finely convinced me I should pay no attention to your work, thank you.
I've never met a white person who identifies as of colour. Seriously, that's not a thing... 😆
Seriously Google it people are actually doing it, no word of a lie.
I identify in my mind as an able bodied person but my body is still physically disabled. What you think and what you feel are sometimes just not true.
I'm also a lesbian, a sporty kind of tomboy looking lesbian if you want to add an identity pack of labels to it, i have a problem with identity politics because according to IP logic i should be vote in certain ways, this totally denies my individuality, just because I'm gay and disabled does not mean i will vote in a particular way.
I'm far more of a complex person that two basic factors of my identity, I'm more than just a gay disabled person which identity politics seems to only care for as done its followers.
As a lesbian i should 100% back trans rights, no questions asked, yet i do have thoughts and opinions that are legitimate questions about the safe guarding of women and especially children, do things like self identification put children especially at risk? Girls being the most vulnerable but sadly boys are not left of a use either. How are we to ensure THE most vulnerable people in our society, children, if we can't even debate the issues without being shut down, being called a bigot or a transphobe.
Things like the Ruby Rose Batwoman backlash because she as an out lesbian for many years wasn't gay enough to play the part, what does a lesbian look like? I didn't realise women who are attracted as i am to the same sex just like gay men are attracted to men, both of us being homosexuals, existed on a gay spectrum... we're going back to a time where stereotypes are rife, point proven in ruby rose's case, how can a lesbian an out well known lesbian not be gay enough?