Don’t Shout at the Telly: Feminism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2015
- In this on the sofa discussion, WORLDbytes volunteers hear the case put by spiked education editor Joanna Williams that feminism should be confined to the dustbin of history. There’s never been a better time to be female she tells us, not everyone agrees but the arguments are stunning!
Joanna Williams will be speaking at the Battle of Ideas festival in the Feminism and Its Discontents strand at the Barbican in London on 17th & 18th October.
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37:50 I love how the feminist chick on the right looks like she's questioning her entire life XD
One man in the whole group.
She has such a pleasant, matter of fact, respectful,, fact based way of speaking in these venues.
This conversation doesn't have the views it should have. She completely destroys feminism.
Feminism is a folly, a big lie! It is an attack on men and it is vile and uncalled for. If men started an ideology like this women would be screaming out for help and protection. Men don't do things like this because they are logical and not vile and cunning like some women are.
@@MICKEYISLOWD hahaha Go and read Beauvoir for a change and try to get some historical knowledge before saying such crap. Women have just started and they are fighting the right battle. Feminism is very important. I am a man and give all support to my woman to be feminist and activist if she wants. I support her and will always let her free to fight for her rights. And I do that because as a MAN I know very well how easy it is to be a man and how unfair society treates women. Shame on this male chauvinist ignorant and abjects!
@@coronatempo721 You sound like a white Knight. I believe the first movements in feminism were important and women deserved to have those issues put clear. I am not arguing about that. I am saying it all has gone to far and it is women that should shut up for a while and realise everything in their lives that makes them comfortable like the nice buildings and all the manufactured stuff was done by men. When was the last time you saw a woman high up on a building scaffold bolting and laying down the concrete? Men built the entire goddamn world otherwise they would be huddled under a shrub in the pissing rain shivering away wet through. In the department I used to work in the women do easy jobs where the men lose fingers in dangerous spinning machinery. Men wear hard toe shoes and women wear soft shoes that are comfortable because they complained the hard shoe was not feeling too great for 8 hrs per day..lol. I bet you even go out with the women to the pub and like to allie with them because you are not attractive to women. Many snowflake men do this because they cannot be a strong man which women actually do find attractive. You made all the wrong assumptions about me because you have a male brain that is trying to be female!
@@MICKEYISLOWD You're a joke. Sorry to hear your nonsense. Not even mon grandfather talks and think like this. Are you sure you do live in a real world. hahahahaha
my grandfather*
Thank you Joanna for your courage in taking on the Feminist establishment, and for your patience in explaining your (entirely reasonable) stance to your interlocutors. I hope they learned something.
What's extraordinary is how one of the great democratic projects of the modern era, the women's liberation movement, has been superseded by victim feminism, one of the most reactionary forces in political life today.
Very glad for this content. Well done, and appreciated.
It's interesting how Jo has empirical data that makes the panel feel uncomfortable or invalidated in some way. By interesting I mean completely predictable. Understanding data these days makes you a contrarian, does it?
Isn't it cute, how naive those feminism defenders are?
They really think that victimhood is something good.
I wonder where they got that from...
Being a victim means to be in a position you can't defend yourself and
that's obviously something one shouldn't be proud of.
Some are so very unconsciously bourgeois. I mean there is a delightfully posh white girl there who has probably never even grazed a knee without good old mummsy or her nanny kissing it better. Of course she wants to be wrapped up in cotton-wool; she's clearly a spoiled brat.
But seriously, encouraging ancient values of courage, as we traditionally have done among men, would go along way to prevent these hysterical girls from panicking about getting on trains and inappropriate touching and offensive comments and shit.
The other girl with the kind of lesbianish hair-cut actually thinks it is progress to admit you are a victim. That is such a posh, modern, spoiled, white-girl, first-world problem thing to say it is stunningly embarrassing. Does she know anything of the real world, history, ancient noble or even modern street values? Human beings have continually dragged themselves out of grinding labour, burdensome grime and miserable oppression precisely because they refused to be victims! That is the essence of being a courageous human being! That was the whole point of classical feminism! She really sounds like a silly little posh girl. She in her little sheltered bourgeois life can be happy admitting to victimhood but most people that have really been victimised face a choice between refusing to be so or being crushed like insects. Don't be ashamed to have a spine, God almighty.
@@ishmaelforester9825 pmsl this comment is awesome, please start a youtube channel critiquing first world whingers
Joana Williams is absolutely brilliant. Thank you
4:15 "A nicer and kinder kind of politics". If there's ONE thing I'm sure about it's that a senate of all women would be just as backbiting, underhanded, and callous as our current one - they'd just be nicer to eachothers faces.
Worse.
The feminists teenagers in the panel were swallowing it, about to break into tears, crumpled and pouting.
I love it that Joanna loves being sexy.
Will Scarlett
Well, isn't that open-minded of you.
Debra Blouin It certainly is :)
Will Scarlett
You're boring.
sorry that you're hideous and bitter, Will. But the world is not at fault.
Refreshing discussion.... very worthwhile
a true hero
A great discussion. A lot of food for thought.
3:00, she hits on that same question of; why is there this disjunction between the rhetoric and the reality?
The answer is, as it often has been with other such movements, if you declare victory then everyone expects you to pack up and go home, if you say "It is done, we have conquered" then you are expected to relinquish your demands for power and space.
Huron .Blackheart
I think you've missed an important nuance.
It's not "we've won we can stop."
It's we have what we asked for, now we have to live it. We can't continue to accept the role of the oppressed once oppression has been overcome. We have to LIVE as the free individuals and free women we are. And that is where the rub is. I don't think some women want to live within that liberty. They want the struggle. Because having freedom also means one has responsibility for it.
Here's a mundane parallel: i work in fitness. For many people it's about what diet they are on and what struggle they have with...whatever--cravings, and losing weight, and such. They are on about the process. But they are often unsuccessful because they are focused on the struggle and the process. They haven't actually considered how they plan on living life once they have achieved their goal. And then it's about the maintenance. Nobody cheers you on AFTER you've lost the weight! While your losing you get pats on the back and compliments and encouraging sympathy. I have yet to have anyone come up to me and tell me "Wow! You are really keeping that weight off! Well done! You are a good maintainer!" Because once I have reached my goal it is up to ME to continue to enjoy the benefits of the work I did without sympathy or praise.
The fact is that women AND men have had it bad throughout history. We all know the female issues but the fact is men have higher rates of suicide, boys aren't attending university at the rates females are, men have to go to war etc. Men don't complain about these issues.
If a man makes a comment that you don't like you have two choices 1) walk away 2) tell em to piss off. Why are we making out that women are so fragile that they can't tell a guy to go do one. It is very patronising.
Dr Jo is outstanding.
Being complimented or approached by a man on a bus or subway. Doesn't it depend on the man? If he is attractive and well dressed and seems affable then it wouldn't be a problem, would it? But women seem to be encouraged to believe that they are all potential victims from any possible interaction with a man.
Well if he is on the bus, or subway he obviously isn't earning enough to be allowed to compliment a woman.
What rubbish. Millionaires use the subway, trains and busses. Did you not think before you commented?
Debra Blouin, I don't think that it's the good looks or dress of the man. If you arn't an a gender looking beta male at best then they know that they can't brow beat and dominant you and treat you like a pet. They are terrified of any man that appears to be stable and have their shite together. Sad thing is that those men they fear are the same ones who would be great husbands for the simple fact that they will work to both provide for their families and keep them safe from the actual threats that are out there in this world. They want beta males so that they will never be called out on their BS.
Yay!!! Feminists confronted with facts & sense!!!
13:26
They were and still are. Victimhood culture is endemic at this point.
One thing I stronglz disagree woth her is when she said that women are policed when told not to drink and smoke and this holds them back. When you're pregnant you are responsible for another living being inside you. Drinking and smoking can very likely damage the child permanently. Would you say to an abusive mother "it's ok to hit your child, you do you" the same way you would tell such a person to stop doing that you should tell pregnant women not to smoke and drink, do what you want woth your body as long as it's only affecting YOU.
You're making a massive leap there. Pregnancy is a very specific situation.
Yea you have to believe she wasn't talking about pregnant women, but I've not heard much lecturing of women about drinking and smoking other than that.
This is ancient but I get the vibes her family nags her about her about drinking too much too often.
I think that Feminism has lost it's male sympatheisers just when it had won the arguement about 20 years ago. Patriarchy theory threw the baby out with the bath water.
It's interesting that the comment that most parliamentary debates happen after 7pm is a male conspiracy (or at least hinted at that). If you are a government cabinet minister, you work government hours (say 9-5). Assuming you give them time to work at their ministry and have a dinner break (where some might decide to go home for an hour) 7pm is the earliest you can have a scheduled debate, barring something that would constitute an emergency.
That is of course if you want Ministers to set policy for their ministries, instead of just spending all their time in the House/assembly.
"makes me feel uncomfortable" My god. Do you mean "I disagree with that idea because..."
19:55 if that question is asked to boys or men the result will be the same but they're never asked either out of fear of learning the truth or indifference towards them.
24:24 what did happened was 2 sisters were beating boys on a bus due to harassment/molestation. The girls became global heroes as the whole thing was caught on mobile cameras. Boys got arrested & investigated while the girls were being honoured by their state government bravery award. A journalist wanting to interview them went to their village ended up meeting a woman from their village who also happened to be on that bus. According to her the girls started the whole thing over seats that the boys weren't willing to give them & the woman also alleged that the girls were known to pick fights even in their village. Their punishment, state government cancelled their bravery award but not jail for assault & the media who celebrated & woman power while bashing male chauvinism & violence against women showed almost no interest after that.
Complete logical fallacy at 20:30: "Every woman put her hand up" when asked if they'd experienced unwanted touching. That's self-report and subjective bias. I can say that as a man I've been touched when I didn't want it or approve of it, not to mention flirted with. That's the world of desire and boundaries.
They did a study in one of the Scandinavian countries; probably Sweden where they tried to coerce women into traditionally Mens subjects like Civil Engineering and after the 10 yr study it showed that women rejected these paths into highly trained jobs even moreso than before. The study concluded that women are simply far more interested in people than how things work; the opposite being true for Men. Women prefer working with people far more such as nursing yet feminists say that it is because of misogyny, sexism and all other kinds of factors. This is a prime example of how feminism has gone very very sour faced indeed. It is an attack in many cases and has become an ideology too far gone. They are now taking it to sports where they insist women should be able to compete with men even in boxing and say the reason why a women would only last to the first head punch is because of the same factors as sexism ect...This is what happens when ideologies take over the frontal cortex of some people's minds. Men love women to be like women..full of grace and mercy and love however these traits are disappearing it seams.
We love Joanna Williams! When the new feminists start shrieking for more female miners, refuse collectors or sewage workers, then I might pay them a bit of attention.
Apart from abortion. I agree with her
Notice the host has a ring on her finger, and I'm sure a happy husband. Those others are going to ruin some suckers life.
There's a great need of classical woman's rights activism in countries outside the 'modern' western countries. That's where "feminism" is sorely needed today. In the west we are pretty much equal now due partly to regulation, but also as part of our present day western culture I believe. I think the woman's struggle is needed in many places on this planet today. It's not hard to find such places.
But if you want to keep finding a more equal society still in the west maybe its time to take a look at the people behind our western patriarchal monetary system, its effects on people, like debt (people selling all for money - their bodies too). It's pretty much privately owned you know.. Go from there.
+5iF3R In a lot of ways things are getting worse with women as domestic violence and sexual abuse and harassment is increasing against young women. Working class women are suffering even more than working class men from cuts to jobs and services in local authorities and the NHS. There are also cuts to services that assist women who are victims of domestic violence. When middle class women are doing better working class women are even worse off. It's a class struggle as well as gender struggle.
+lemsip " as domestic violence and sexual abuse and harassment is increasing against young women". You will need to provide citations for this kind of wild hyperbole. You are perpetuating myths and are part of the problem this video is addressing.
You are illustrating classic tactics in victim feminism. Keep women in a state of perpetual fear and anger over perceived injustices focused not on society but on gender alone.
It seems to me, having grown up watching my mother claim victim status at every turn, while beating shit out of us kids and destroying her saintly husband with her non-stop carping moaning nag, that women love to see themselves as victims; they see themselves as Cinderella (never an ugly sister). I made sure not to keep one at home; I like peace and quiet. Listen to Johnny Cash's "Understand Your Man".
What utterly outreages me , is that Rotherham or problems with Islam or anything near these topics where on the table.
Learn English, you embarrassing turd.
Praise the lawd
Look how umhappy those feminists look..haha
Was with her until abortion. But great talk.
Abortion is still wrong, folks. It's not a gender issue. It's a life. And her advocacy of abortion is disappointing to me, because I otherwise respect her.
I know!! It was absolutely chilling to hear her describe abortion as a wholly positive thing. And I was totally on board up to that point. However, I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the the matter because I have a penis.
Fuk Yoo
Don't let ANYONE tell you that! If you are a human who cares about other humans you have skin in this game and every right to weigh in. Cheers!
It's not surprising. If men could just end a pregnancy like that legally, of course more of them would. What is really depressing is the shallow, illogical and unethical arguments that often surround the whole issue in common discourse on both sides. You get people thumping holy books on the one hand and people comparing a pregnancy to a lump of spunk on the other. Then when you want to introduce nuance and degree you get castigated either for being some kind of evil sinner or a misogynist supporter of the scary patriarchy. It is pathetic, really.
here here!!! however I respect her views on feminism . she's spot on. Just goes to show you, You will never agree on EVERYTHING with anyone. It's what makes us human.
abortion is god's greatest gift to mankind
She's moving her head around as much as Gordon Brown paced up and down in his speech about the coming Labour leadership elections. So distracting.
She is taking in the round and trying to speak to individuals within it i.e. via eye contact.
The young woman's unhappiness is a spiritual malaise, probably stemming from disconnection, too many options, and too much information. "Men" become a convenient scapegoat.
I wish reviews of women's experience and rights in the past included acknowledgement of things men had to do because they were men and that women could avoid such as conscription to fight in brutal wars and dangerous jobs.
Quick this woman's making too much sense, shut her down!!!! P.S. Joanna Willliams has great legs
Where does she live? She is slightly out of touch and is probably a MAN pretending to be a woman in a fair society. Rubbish, she says all sorts of nonsense. Just hope these young ladies know better.
"Where does she live?" That sounds a bit creepy. And to resort to insults shows you've have no argument.
I was totally on board until she was pro abortion
Richard Blinn that sir is a distinction without a difference
don't read these comments! it will only remind you how people don't understand feminism and just love it when someone critiques feminism. Then the trolls come out to spread the hate against feminism. I'm a man, I love feminism, i find Joanna interesting, good to listen to, but if you really think women have equality to men, you're in dreamland. I work in a domestic violence agency with male victims. There are a few. but mostly its women- like 80% or more. thats what I see every day. feminism helps.
Yes whatever! Use your real name. You don't need to be so bitter. I'm not actually a cuckold at all. Hiding out here in the comments section is a sad and lonely world I suspect. It's OK to disagree, but you can be respectful and kind as well. I still have my balls. I still like women and men about equally. You don't need to get so wrapped up in it! A few deep breaths and you might not seem so grumpy.
Why bother with discussion if your only contribution is to abuse someone? What's your real name? Stop doing this abuse and really open your mind to new ideas- I've found that's how I learn new things. It works for me. The 'patriarchy' is a word to describe how men generally have more power than women in the world. If you have a daughter, ask her if she finds that is true. I have found it to be true, although not always true. you don't need to abuse me just because we disagree. Relax! You don't need to be so rigid.
Graham Barnes Well I disagree with you on feminism, but I agree we should discuss things like adults rather than flinging insults.
In the case of domestic abuse, male victims are extremely unlikely to seek help, if they even recognise they're being abused in the first place. Check out the social experiments on TH-cam and how people react to men hitting women and vice versa. People find it funny when women hit men. Saying that victims don't come forward is not evidence that they don't exist.
Do you work in the domestic violence field? Where do you draw your experience from? Is your experience based on TH-cam? I never once said male victims don't exist. I work directly with male victims of domestic violence. I know they come forward to seek help, because they talk to me. It's frustrating when people make broad generalisations from behind a computer screen. This is the climate we have to work in, and it's very distorted. That's my experience. You don't have to agree, I just encourage you to listen.
Graham Barnes The only victims you work with are the ones who actually come forward, no?