I am totally with you. I’d LOVE to see bitless and bridleless in all levels of equine competition. The momentum to update and improve professional horse sports is catching up to the renaissance of new, much improved horse-human relationship training that’s going on nowadays. Thank you and Shelby Dennis for championing this worthy cause, and also leading by example.
I've been wanting to find out what's going on w/the Dujardin "thing" now that some of the shouting is dying down & people are starting to actually think about what this means. This is the best & most insightful video I've found---thank you for making it & for being so well-spoken & reasonable.The response from the FEI guy was arrogant & whiny & as they say, "When someone SHOWS you who they are---believe them." FEI should be disbanded entirely, they will never give up the "horse subjugated to the rider's will" model. I LOVE the idea of bitless, at least, if not bridle-less, perhaps a strict standard for headgear b/c people have proven they'll do anything to win. Wouldn't it be fun to even have a liberty category, no contact, just the human ASKING the horse to dance. I think one question should be: Whar was the original purpose of dressage? I think it's to show a perfect harmony between horse & rider such that the second the rider asks for canter, it happens, that the horse consents b/c it & the rider are as one. It's evolved into some cartoon of perfect form that is about the some arbitrary idea, not about what horses do naturally---example, all the rollkur nonsense which is ostensibly banned but still given high scores by the old-school judges at the high levels of competition. It is clear that FEI is dragging its heels & trying to gaslight & has NOT done all it could to ban abusive practices. That said---how do you eliminate abusive practices from training, which goes on behind the scenes---especially now that Dujardin has been outed, trainers will be super careful about allowing sessions to be filmed. Maybe require an unedited video of a horse being taught to do something, from beginning to end, before someone is certified as a trainer? What's sad is that we even need to have these conversations. This is what happens when it becomes about winning at all costs, big money, big fame---and certainly, no longer amateurs. P.S.--We in the U.S. are by no means innocent---we have the popular Tennessee "Big Lick" shows, where horses are kept in "stacks," sored with chemicals (this too is illegal but still quite common) so that they will sit back on their haunches & raise their front feet to ridiculous-looking levels for the entertainment of a bunch of "fine" ol' southern folks. Luckily, there are a number of rescue organizations outing these abusive procedures, such that Big Lick (or as I like to call it: Big Suck!) has almost gone underground. It's good to see so many areas of horse performance from racing to dressage, starting to be held accountable.
That's like saying that people shouldn't talk about child abuse because children could also be murdered. Just because one thing is really bad doesn’t mean that the other thing is good or even tolerable. Both are bad and should not be done, and both should have people advocating for change.
I have sighed Raleigh and I just sighed the other one to inforce rules😊horses r amazing to see in the Olympics but it isn't humane and bitless and neckrope stuff looks 10 times better it's just sad it's never gonna get better if the horses stay in the Olympics I feel like
Cathrine Dufour posted her video performing her routine tackles in cordeo the days before leaving for olympics. i agree i would actually watch and love watching if it was more horsemanship... that is actually really impressive and inspiring
I HATE people saying that you need harsh tack and training methods to perform piaffes and passages. I watch my trainer (in consensual horsemanship) cue her horse to passage or piaffe simply by moving her body, on the ground, with nothing but a lunge line and a halter
I agree that they need to go back to plain snaffle. Small, nubby spurs. No tight noseband. Penalty for behind the vertical. Back to basics. Horse will be happier and more willing to be a partner. But if the FEI can’t institute these changes, I think they should remove Dressage from the Olympics. I can’t even watch it. Don’t put these unhappy, tortured horses on display for the world to see.
I am with you regarding that show dressage is a bad thing to horses. What I disagree about is that the movements are unnatural. That is not true. Horses show these in raw form in their pastures. To educate them to do these on command properly takes a long time, but it is possible. Some even want to do these. To do this with a rider on them, they need proper preparation - mentally and physically. Which they do not get in sports, which is the real abuse. IMO, one first step in that direction the FEI could take very easily is to allow snaffle bits and the use of simple bridles (no nosebands). Because if a horse is properly trained, you do not need to cheat by tensioning them up between your block saddle, a heavy lever at the front (curb bit), and spurring them forward. The simple snaffle and a moderate dressage saddle (big blocks should be left off there) could be a more basic class. If the team of horse and rider is advancing, you could do bitless/neckrope classes with perhaps saddle pads/sheepskin saddles. The top class could then be no tack at all. The FEI should even consider airs above the ground for the extremely gifted. And to anybody who says this is boring - I disagree. If a horse is really enjoying itself, it becomes more and more beautiful and expressive. I do not think that with such a system shortcuts in training will be possible.
Require a warm up and ride in a snaffle only. Or bit less, or hackamore. No double bridles and tight nosebands allowed. Make a horse being consistently behind the vertical faulty in the points, with only a 5 and below allowed for any movement which the horse preforms behind the vertical. A lot of this comes from what the judges are rewarding with high points, and it’s obviously unnatural movement. And for example, extended trot not generated from behind and with engagement. I watched Reiner Klimke ride, and an even older black and white video of dressage (can’t recall the riders name) and the horses’ ears were flickering back and forth, relaxed. As if listening to the rider at times, and forward at times. Relaxed. Not fixed forward the whole ride. Compare with current rides.
Doing a grand prix test has NOTHING to do with understanding horse behavior. And you can be an awesome rider but never go to grand prix, because you have to be rich to do that. For once, stop using this lame excuse and learn a thing or two about horse stress and pain signs.
I am totally with you. I’d LOVE to see bitless and bridleless in all levels of equine competition. The momentum to update and improve professional horse sports is catching up to the renaissance of new, much improved horse-human relationship training that’s going on nowadays. Thank you and Shelby Dennis for championing this worthy cause, and also leading by example.
I've been wanting to find out what's going on w/the Dujardin "thing" now that some of the shouting is dying down & people are starting to actually think about what this means. This is the best & most insightful video I've found---thank you for making it & for being so well-spoken & reasonable.The response from the FEI guy was arrogant & whiny & as they say, "When someone SHOWS you who they are---believe them." FEI should be disbanded entirely, they will never give up the "horse subjugated to the rider's will" model. I LOVE the idea of bitless, at least, if not bridle-less, perhaps a strict standard for headgear b/c people have proven they'll do anything to win. Wouldn't it be fun to even have a liberty category, no contact, just the human ASKING the horse to dance. I think one question should be: Whar was the original purpose of dressage? I think it's to show a perfect harmony between horse & rider such that the second the rider asks for canter, it happens, that the horse consents b/c it & the rider are as one. It's evolved into some cartoon of perfect form that is about the some arbitrary idea, not about what horses do naturally---example, all the rollkur nonsense which is ostensibly banned but still given high scores by the old-school judges at the high levels of competition. It is clear that FEI is dragging its heels & trying to gaslight & has NOT done all it could to ban abusive practices. That said---how do you eliminate abusive practices from training, which goes on behind the scenes---especially now that Dujardin has been outed, trainers will be super careful about allowing sessions to be filmed. Maybe require an unedited video of a horse being taught to do something, from beginning to end, before someone is certified as a trainer? What's sad is that we even need to have these conversations. This is what happens when it becomes about winning at all costs, big money, big fame---and certainly, no longer amateurs. P.S.--We in the U.S. are by no means innocent---we have the popular Tennessee "Big Lick" shows, where horses are kept in "stacks," sored with chemicals (this too is illegal but still quite common) so that they will sit back on their haunches & raise their front feet to ridiculous-looking levels for the entertainment of a bunch of "fine" ol' southern folks. Luckily, there are a number of rescue organizations outing these abusive procedures, such that Big Lick (or as I like to call it: Big Suck!) has almost gone underground. It's good to see so many areas of horse performance from racing to dressage, starting to be held accountable.
Where are you with all the horses that get sent to slaughter ever day. Endless suffering and abuse. Such Hypocrisy!
That's like saying that people shouldn't talk about child abuse because children could also be murdered. Just because one thing is really bad doesn’t mean that the other thing is good or even tolerable. Both are bad and should not be done, and both should have people advocating for change.
I completely agree with you! ❤
So spot on folks!! Let’s see the beautiful friendship between human and horse.. not the slave/master relationship please!
Thanks so much for your reasoned discussion. And for including side by side photos in the thumbnail for comparison.
I have sighed Raleigh and I just sighed the other one to inforce rules😊horses r amazing to see in the Olympics but it isn't humane and bitless and neckrope stuff looks 10 times better it's just sad it's never gonna get better if the horses stay in the Olympics I feel like
Cathrine Dufour posted her video performing her routine tackles in cordeo the days before leaving for olympics. i agree i would actually watch and love watching if it was more horsemanship... that is actually really impressive and inspiring
I HATE people saying that you need harsh tack and training methods to perform piaffes and passages. I watch my trainer (in consensual horsemanship) cue her horse to passage or piaffe simply by moving her body, on the ground, with nothing but a lunge line and a halter
I agree that they need to go back to plain snaffle. Small, nubby spurs. No tight noseband. Penalty for behind the vertical. Back to basics. Horse will be happier and more willing to be a partner. But if the FEI can’t institute these changes, I think they should remove Dressage from the Olympics. I can’t even watch it. Don’t put these unhappy, tortured horses on display for the world to see.
I am with you regarding that show dressage is a bad thing to horses. What I disagree about is that the movements are unnatural. That is not true. Horses show these in raw form in their pastures. To educate them to do these on command properly takes a long time, but it is possible. Some even want to do these. To do this with a rider on them, they need proper preparation - mentally and physically. Which they do not get in sports, which is the real abuse. IMO, one first step in that direction the FEI could take very easily is to allow snaffle bits and the use of simple bridles (no nosebands). Because if a horse is properly trained, you do not need to cheat by tensioning them up between your block saddle, a heavy lever at the front (curb bit), and spurring them forward. The simple snaffle and a moderate dressage saddle (big blocks should be left off there) could be a more basic class. If the team of horse and rider is advancing, you could do bitless/neckrope classes with perhaps saddle pads/sheepskin saddles. The top class could then be no tack at all. The FEI should even consider airs above the ground for the extremely gifted. And to anybody who says this is boring - I disagree. If a horse is really enjoying itself, it becomes more and more beautiful and expressive.
I do not think that with such a system shortcuts in training will be possible.
You may stop the obvious abuse at shows…but the harsh training methods will more than likely continue at home and in the training barns…😢
i also wish that its allowed to ride bit-less in just more amature competitions
Require a warm up and ride in a snaffle only. Or bit less, or hackamore. No double bridles and tight nosebands allowed. Make a horse being consistently behind the vertical faulty in the points, with only a 5 and below allowed for any movement which the horse preforms behind the vertical. A lot of this comes from what the judges are rewarding with high points, and it’s obviously unnatural movement. And for example, extended trot not generated from behind and with engagement. I watched Reiner Klimke ride, and an even older black and white video of dressage (can’t recall the riders name) and the horses’ ears were flickering back and forth, relaxed. As if listening to the rider at times, and forward at times. Relaxed. Not fixed forward the whole ride. Compare with current rides.
Why are you with all the horses that get sent to slaughter every day …. Endless suffering and abuse. Such hypocrisy!
What is your experience with doing a Grand Prix test?
Doing a grand prix test has NOTHING to do with understanding horse behavior. And you can be an awesome rider but never go to grand prix, because you have to be rich to do that. For once, stop using this lame excuse and learn a thing or two about horse stress and pain signs.
@@the_ethical_horse_girl I was asking merely for the information. I'm surprised at your defensive answer.