On #3, I am still brought back to the scene from "Blood Oath" when Jadzia meets Kor. He says, "Curzon, my beloved old friend!" She responds with, "I'm Jadzia now." And his adjustment and easy change over to, "Well, Jadzia, my beloved old friend."
This was my immediate thought too. Klingons seem to be one of those races that, despite their shortcomings, they accept others as they present themselves, as long as they present themselves with courage and honor. And Dax would do both of those, many times over.
Terry and Armin were only GUEST not HOST on The Delta Flyers edition with Robert Duncan McNeill and Garette Wang of Voyager. Cirroc Lofton has a DS9 podcast called The 7th rule and Enterprise has their own podcast show called the Shuttlepod Show With Connor Trinneer and Dominic Keating.
@@prometheusonealpha7580 what? they're still hosting it with Garrett and Robbie. You must've only listened to the first episode because every episode afterwards has had either Terry or Armin.
2:44 Never let anybody push you around. I left my job of 5 years late last year because of closeted racism, and was lucky enough to find another gig immediately because my unique skills (I work in sports recreation). I know some people aren't so lucky, but sometimes, self-respect is more important than a paycheque
I loved Terry Farrell.... And may I say...... Ellies voice is... beautiful... AND ALSO .... MCCOY WAS A STONE... COLD .......PLAYA!!! AS A SOUTHERNER....,,👍
Star Trek inspired me to be open to different cultures, different races, different sexes. It was a vision of the future without prejudice. It's pretty surprising that the people behind the show had outdated traits towards women.
A background factoid on why Trill society forbid previous associations. Originally the script said that was forbid because Trull society was concerned that it would lead to an elitist cast based system.
@@sureshmukhi2316 I listen to a podcast Secrets of Star Trek with Jimmy Aiken (produced by SQPN). The episode about Dax’s former lover comes aboard the station was the featured episode of discussion. That was mentioned in passing. They take feedback e-mail so that would be a question about their sources.
to number 1: humans look different from different areas ... why not the aliens as well? not every vulcan is the same, not every trill, Kardashian, ferengi or whatever. I like visual variations in one species while still bein recognizable.
Agreed. That's why I enjoy seeing Vulcans with longer hair, even though that's more of a personal style choice than anything to do with genetics. However, it would be interesting to see the conversations around personal preferences and vanity between Vulcans on this front, as personal style is inextricably connected to the emotions they try so hard to purge.
There are minor differences between humans; yet they're still identiable as human. Same with Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, Ferengi, Bajorans, the Andorians, the Borg, etc... all identifiable by similar physical traits without regard to skin color. Unless there's an in canon reason why two or more physically different species coexist on Trill, then the different hemisphere explanation is hogwash. [On earth, we have species that exist and developed independently of each other, like dogs and cats, yet they're still identiable as dogs and cats.]
I would love to agree, but the difference between the ridges and the spots is a lot stronger than the differences we see in humans or other alien races. Recognizable being the keyword here. By look alone, no one would have guessed Odan and Jadzia were the same race. And that's only one part of the mystery. Odan's new host had no problem declaring her love to Dr. Crusher, in complete disregard for Trill society, as Dr. Kahn puts it.
@@petiteminish2863 The entire point of the scene was that Dr. Crusher could love Odan in his male form, but not his/her female form. I know that might seem problematic today, but the 1990s were alot more heteronormative. Even so, Dr. Crusher was a straight woman, and while she might still have feelings for Odan, she could not feel a romantic attraction in her female form. Like when some marriages amicably break up when one partner transitions.
Well it had absolutely nothing to do with Nicole D Boar. It was the misogynistic producers and even directors that threw revolting slurs at Terry. Terry, was at the very top of likeability in DS9, next to Avery Brooks. Yet they called her 'Action Barbie', 'Nothing but looks' and MANY other terrible, soul destroying slams... Jadzia was IMO the linchpin of DS9. How dare they turn her from a great performer to 'just a woman!'.... It makes me sick!!
If you have a photoshoot with Terry and Nicole, Terry refers to it as a "Dax Sandwich". Nicole hates that phrase though! @Jaya-zn7vr: It was awful how they treated both character and actress. Dax was a great kick-ass character, a great strong role model, but they wanted to reduce her to eye-candy, it simply wasn't fair.
I think it makes it feel a bit more real, it was like the viewer got to experance it first hand losing Jadzia, someone they had (known) for 6 years and then bam! A new Dax walks in.
I was so in love with Jadzia, and even though I don't plan on having kids at this point, I've always thougth Jadzia would be a beautiful name if I ever had a girl. Terry Farrell knocked it out of the park for that character.
It may be beta canon, but I love how Ezri herself becomes a captain in some of the novels, figuring that her many lifetimes worth of experience would be better put to use in Starfleet in command than in counseling. I wish they'd make this canon.
Jadzia's advice to Sisko in "Emmisary" - "I suggest you get comfortable with your discomfort; time will do the rest" - is a really useful piece of advice to someone struggling with a loved one coming out. Yes, it's going to feel weird and strange, and you're going to slip up. Do your best, and you will get comfortable.
Just a reminder: In "Rejoined" you said Lenara Kahn was Torias Dax's wife, but to be specific it was Nilani Khan who was married to Torias, Lenara was the host to Kahn after Nilani and Jadzia was the host to Dax after firstly it's brief stint in Joran, followed by Curzon. It is a subtle but I feel an important point, as both Lenara and Jadzia are both relatively young and relatively new to being joined in their current hosts, and had both changed and had both stayed the same in various ways since Torias' death. I consider it an allegory to meeting someone again after a long time apart after changing and growing, and dealing with the old and new feelings that re-emerge/develop.
I often have to remember that Ezri was only in the show for 25 episodes... She blended in so well that it took part of the sting of Jadzia's death. DAMN YOU DUKAT!!!
Dax is such an interesting character. I hope that one day we can see some part of Star Trek that happened during the Khitomer accords. I want to see Curzon in his prime. Hanging out with a young Ben Sisko, and becoming the Godfather to Kang's son.
Terry Farrell standards made the series better than it otherwise would have been. Sexist expectations for the show cast such as she experienced were unnecessarily harmful to all viewers, not just the actress alone. My hope is Ms Farrell will continue to experience success and a better quality of life because of her standards.
I always preferred Farrell as Dax, it's hard for me to pin down what it is about her portrayal of the character, not to mention the character herself, that is somewhat endearing and reassuring, with a level of intelligence, logic and free-spirited nature that just seemed, well, "nice", when DeBoer came along, I just felt she was too "neurotically cutesy", I still appreciated her as a new Dax, but never felt the same was as I did for Jadzia...
It's almost as if they were two completely different people, of them prepared her whole life to be joined and the other who never wanted to be joined and had a symbiote land in her lap because she was the only person there. with no prior training and conditioning to living as a joined being. I can't imagine why one of them would come across as mature and reassuring and the other just like the untrained young person she was. Not to mention the role was written specifically for one of them and she had years to work and develop the character while endearing herself to fans and the other got tossed in at the last minute replacement.
I always liked both characters but because of the performances rather than the writing. Jadzia only had 2 episodes that were not about a previous host or about worf. One of the eps was a romance of the week so bad, i suspect it was originally intended for Troi. Even jadzias death wasnt about her. Similarly Ezri only got one ep that wasmt about a previous host or worf. But the actresses were really good in the role's.
Sad fact about Dax, Jadzia is among, if not the shortest to hold the symbiote. Only surviving as host for 7 years. Curzon for example, is one of he longest at 81 years
Definitely not _the_ shortest, considering Joran. And another commenter makes the point that Dax was only ~350 during the events of _DS9,_ so if they were only joined for the first time at age 150, and Curzon had the symbiont for the majority of a century, the average lifespan of a Dax host must have been pretty short.
@@GSBarlev Well This is something that gets chalked up to continuity errors. For one we know the symbiote was 150 years old before it was joined to its first host, Lela who held it for 58 years. So given that by the time DS9 comes around its 350 years old. So that means only 200 years worth of hosts. If you put Curzon and Leta together you have 140 years. Leaving 0nly 60 years for 6 hosts or an average of 10 years per. The likelihood of hosts only living an average of 10 years is beyond improbable that it requires suspension of disbelief. Even if you say Joran only lived for a year, thats still 59 years for 5 hosts. 11.8 years? Thats a huge discrepancy given that we know most of the hosts lived to normal lifespans. So that should be at least 25 years or more with the symbiote. We also know some like Tobin loved to be elderly. So no matter how you look at it those numbers will never add up. Its also hard to really hold Joran up as a host given he only held it less than a year, and the memories were suppressed. Which would logically be a feat they could pull off a memory wipe with the connection to that host being considerably weaker than an average host.
I find it amazing that so many years later we find out just how much of a Beep Rick B was to his Shows Cast members. I think it's safe to say Gene Roddenberry's right hand man was the wrong choice.
I don't know how true it is, but I'm pretty sure I've heard that when deciding on Dax's makeup Berman basically said "that looks like shit, let's just give her spots like we did with Famke" from the one horny ass episode in TNG. If true, I think it's the one good thing Berman has done. Side note: I think Ezri would be the most loved Dax if Jadzia hadn't been killed off so unceremoniously and replaced 2 episodes later. Ezri is a much more dynamic and interesting character than Jadzia, who was already a great character.
I had heard that it was because Farrell's skin was too sensitive to the prostheses and that, like Michelle Forbes and the originally-planned Bajoran look, they didn't want to hide such an attractive face in makeup.
OMG. I have made this comparison more times than I can count. Bet anything there are evil ones just like there are in Stargate, not evil hosts like Juran but evil symbionts Star Trek never addresses how they are born, but I would not be surprised if they had a queen similar to the Goa'uld and the Tok'ra. After all those two are technically one species even though the Tok'ra hate being referred to as that.
@@MrTomSpencer I suppose the problem with that possibility would be that she was killed before enterprise even happened but maybe there is more than one Toka queen that they didn't know was still alive. Lol. Another solution to that issue could be that somehow someone in the temporal Cold War went back in time And eliminated her death.
I’m reminded of the TNG episode ‘Conspiracy’ where a number of Star Fleet officers were infected with a parasite which like the Goa’uld and Tokra in SG1 wound itself around the cervical spine of the ‘host’, and the queen resided in the abdomen of a humanoid, in this case Commander Remmick. However, Trill symbionts are different in a number of ways. At the time of DS9 don’t force themselves on Trill hosts, in fact humanoid Trill consider it a privilege and an honour to become conjoined. Nor does the symbiont overpower the psyche of the host, I think that the personalities of the host and symbiont sort of live together as a whole and the memories of all previous hosts are integrated into that whole. They aren’t snakelike like the Goa’uld, they have a teardrop shaped body which has mottled and bobbly skin. As I understand it, from seeing the surgery transferring Dax from Curzon to Jadzia on an early episode of DS9, Trill have a flap or fold across their abdomen through which the symbiont enters their body and then integrates with it. After 93 hours host and symbiont are dependent on each other and will die if separated. In conclusion, ‘Conspiracy’ is an interesting episode and it scores high on the Yuck scale, especially the end🤮.
Wasn’t it established that Trill symbiotes do eventually “retire” back to the pools they came from after so many centuries pass because they can’t bond to another host after living so many lifetimes? So that Captain Dax could have been the last host of Dax.
Years of experience and knowledge show why Dax would make a great captain, as stated in the #1 spot, but this highlights one of my issues with Trek, as we almost exclusively see Humans in the admiralty. Vulcans can live for 200+ years, but we rarely see them serving as anything higher than Captains, which is a shame. By the Next Gen era, there had to be adult Vulcans, alongside Spock, who saw the majority of Starfleet and Alpha Quadrant history up to that point in time, so it behooves me that the Federation wouldn't harness that kind of experience more by putting them in higher offices and admiral positions. Vulcans and Trills for the win!
I never saw it as the Federation preventing Vulcans from being assigned a particular post or rank, but more as Cupcake using their logic to decide for themselves where they were best suited. Similar to how Kirk never enjoyed being an admiral and fully embraced his forced demotion at the end of ST:IV
Keep in mind that Vulcan's Best and Brightest go to the Vulcan Science Academy-Starfleet is just for their rejects and pariahs, as depicted in _Trek 2009_ and _Lower Decks._
In a universe where legends soar, Trek Culture opens the galactic door, With insights bright and stories vast, They weave the present with the past. Ten hidden gems, they deftly share, With passion, humor, and thoughtful care, Each fact revealed, a spark ignites, Illuminating Dax’s starry nights. From vibrant hosts to tales untold, A symbiote’s journey, brave and bold, With every line, their love shines through, For characters old and new, we grew. So here’s to Ellie, and the crew’s delight, For guiding us through the cosmic light, With every video, we boldly explore, Trek Culture inspires us to seek more!
Rick Berman wasn't just a misogynist he was known to be sexist homophobic and basically a creepazoid... Unfortunately most of those in charge of always been sexist, and male and in charge in the first place which is made it for many women working in both old and new Trek the kind of workplace that you wouldn't want to really be in, summer have been lucky enough that they were not on people's radar but others... The point is it happened to appreciate the fan version that has recently come out... With Mr Siddig Andrew j Robinson and many other former deep Space nine alum, it's about as close to getting a decent star Trek show with somebody who at least knows the past.
weirdly however he went to bat for both avery brooks and mulgrew when the higher ups wanted to get rid of them. He was horrible to Wil Wheaton but very accommodating to Colm Meaney.
Yup. He was the one that bollocksed up the TNG episode with the androgynous race. Frakes was heavily pushing for character he was trying to 'Riker Maneuver' to be played by a male actor - it was Berman who basically decided that was 'icky' and made all the actors of the race women.
@@RLplusabunchofdumbnumbers If I remember right in 50 year mission Berman claimed that if the character wasn't played by a woman then the studio wouldn't let the episode be shot at all. It's difficult talking about Berman because he has such a mixed legacy. He always talked about Gene's legacy and how he wanted to make sure different races were represented, but let's not forget that roddenberry was also a woman hating bastard, and I think he and berman also had that in common.
I have come to the conclusion that I came to because of the fact if you listen closely to an interview he did you can see exactly how racist homophobic and sexist the man was, the fact is that that was how males in Hollywood in a positions of power could do whatever they wanted and get away with it, for the longest time. But think about this also the fact is some of these people could not have gotten away with what they got away with for so long if it wasn't for the fact that so many men turned a blind eye and so many women chose to be silent for out of fear of being blacklisted or worse.
@@claytonberg721 He claimed that, but it's not a claim backed up by literally anyone else who's spoken on the matter. In the same way, Berman's version of what happened with Farrell is also backed up by no one else. It's a running theme with his claims.
I would love a deep dive into why most Dax hosts died so young. During DS9, Dax is about 350 years old, give or take. Sisko mentions at one point that Curzon was late for his own 100th birthday party, so we know he lived at least that long. That doesn't leave many years for the other hosts.
@@lyarrastark6254 Curson wasn't always joined. We don't know how old he was when he got the symbiote. Even Jadzia was in her 30s when she was joined. The impression I got was that Curson might have been one of the hosts that lived the longest.
@@dellytancyl524 Jadzia was under 30 in the 1st season of DS9 and one of the Klingons named his first son Dax in honor of Curzon Dax. If Curzon was not joined that time, the name would have been whatever Curzon's family name was before being joined. But the symbiont name always replaces the family name.
If you weren't sold on Ezri, pick up the ST Destiny book series. Through disastrous circumstances, the series opens with her as Captain of the Aventine, and her storyline made me appreciate the character so much more.
"Deep Space Nine: Season 8" (the writing exercise led by Ira Behr in _What We Left Behind)_ also established her as a captain. My *number one wish* for the future of _Trek_ is for Captain Ezri Dax to meet her expy, D'Vana Tendi (and maybe throw in Rok-Tahk for good measure).
This character was created before DS9 was, so I assumed that it was a different character who just happened to have a similar name. It is possible that when creating Jadzia the writers either liked the sound of the name and decided to reuse it, or invented the name from scratch and only later discovered that it was used in the movie already, but it was too late to change it. This is just my own guesswork, and I may be wrong. But if someone else can track down the real story it would make an interesting video. (Hint, hint.)
I never thought of Dax as homosexual bi or pan. I just thought of Dax as Dax. It is what it is. Last episode of season 6 is still my least favourite. Nicole deboar did a great job. The Worf angle was great and again brought something to the whole storyline.
The reimagining of sexual pretense is very strong in media today. Jadziah was never a gay icon. I grew up with the series, and the story, brief mind you, where she comes back to encounter a past symbiote wife is not lesbianisn, it is also not treated as such in the story. What are you talking about, Trek Culture?
My Trill headcanon is, some symbionts have such strong personalities they subsume that of the host. As such, a different humanoid species is contracted to be hosts. These "super symbionts" are also sensitive to transporters.
About inherited traits: you can think of them as vectors. If a trait appears to only one personality, then it will not become a dominant trait. If it appears in several personalities, even at a low intensity, it could become dominant. Circumstances and enviromental pressure can also affect the intensity of the traits, because hosts that display traits that are not beneficial to the survival of the symbiont, won't survive long enough to pass these traits along- think of it as a kind of accelerated evolution. In fact, ( well, not factually, but...), the longer the symbiont survives, the more some traits solidify themselves as dominant and will most likely manifest themselves in every subsequent host. Keeping these hypotheses in mind, you may not predict exactly which traits will manifest themselves at what intensity, but you can make an educated guess. For instance, several of the previous hosts had a measure of athletisism/combat prowess/ killer instict, so I wouldn't mess even with the most out of shape and inexperience host!
This is supposed to be facts about Dax not Terry. This is one of the many reasons I don't subscribe to this channel and am pissed every damn time I'm tricked into watching one of your videos.
I always wondered how Trills discovered the symbiont in thier planets history and that they can put them into thier stomach and be thier hosts. It is not like these symbionts can take a host like those snake things (couldn't spell them)on Stargate SG-1.
We don't know how large a juvenile symbiont is, nor do we know how they reproduce. Imagine they're like tapeworms-originally they were parasites that got into their hosts' abdomens through infested food. Since there are _real world_ parasites that can exert some measure of mind control (for example, it's postulated that people who love cats have a parasite that, in rodents, makes the host less cautious around felines), it's not a stretch to imagine Trill _co-evolving_ that capability. The real question is at what point they switched to symbiosis instead of parasitism. Maybe it was a conscious choice, like with the Tok'Ra faction of the Goa'Uld.
As a teen i was enamored with Dax. I was amazed how gorgeous the actress was. Now as an adult i can look back at how gorgeous she really was and is. Yikes she still gets my heart pumping good lord
If Dax had re-associated with her former partner, played by Suzanna Thompson, then Dax would have been with The Borg Queen (OK, not really, but sorta, since ST played the Borg Queen in the middle of Voyager (and did a damn fine job of it too!). She also played the mother to Annie Wersching's character in Timeless, who then went on to play The Borg Queen (before being taken too young by cancer.). It's not _quite_ as complex as Davison, Tenant, Georgia Moffat etc, but it's close. :)
Jadzia wasn't "killed off" so much as it was Terry who walked away from Berman's bullshit and he acted like the stupid misogynist, sexist, man-child that he was and gave her character the worse send off in history just to satisfy his ego.
I was kind of shocked that they didn't, though it was _absolutely the right_ decision to bring in a new symbiont-the galaxy is too big a place for Spock's sister to mentor the science officer from _Deep Space Nine._
Huh. I completely forgot that a Dax captained the J. Lol, damn that ship is HUGE though...terrible shame that it's not much more powerful than it is and that it's a Temporal ship, in terms of Bridge Officer seating. I would've preferred it to be a Command/Miracle Worker ship with a LOT more Weapon Power. I was SO excited to get it late last year, only to find it to be a lame duck, after years of wanting it and having thought that I had missed the chance of ever obtaining the ship since it came from an old, discontinued Lock Box. In retrospect, I wish they had played up the fact that it was captained by a Dax now too.
I guess im the only one who hated that they killed Jadzia off and how that affected Worf. The man cant catch a break romantically... He finally found his equal in Jadzia and rather than recast the role OF Jadzia, they kill her off and transfer the symbiont to a new host.
You're not the only one. He risked his career to save her in "Change of Heart" only to have her killed by Ducat. I am surprised Worf didn't want to kill Ducat after that.
When the crew of the defiant prevented the ship from landing, what's wrong with this question? It's simple. They didn't. The alternate Odo did. did. please get it right guys.
To be honest I didn't like Jadzia. She was too rigid, too formal and way too perfect. I prefer Ezri much more. Curzon character intrigued me though more than Jadzia. He was a renowned Federation diplomat, spy, he had many adventures and was Sisko's mentor. A series about him would be like James Bond in space.
I liked Ezri better than Jadzia. While Jadzia was always professional when on duty, I always felt that she had a certain smugness that always rubbed me the wrong way. She often pulled people into situations where they were uncomfortable (taking Kira into the holosuites, which she explicitly said she didn't like, or almost anything she coerced Worf to do, though he was just as stubborn). Not only did Dax ignore their discomfort but would often emphasize they were wrong to disagree with her. In short, she expected people to see things her way, but did not want to extend the same courtesy. I honestly don't think that Jadzia and Worf's marriage would have lasted. They had nothing in common (something Worf pointed out more than once); their relationship being largely based on physical attraction and Jadzia pushing them to marry early, ostensibly because of the war, and later to consider having children, which was pointed out would be difficult, both come off as desperate polys by Jadzia to hold onto Worf and/or fix an unstable relationship. Ezri, on the other hand, I found cute and quirky. She had doubts and flaws that made her seem so much more relatable. And her interactions with the other characters seemed so much more natural because she was never trying to dominate a social situation. Complicated though it was, I even think her interactions with Worf were more emotionally healthy than before.
The producers of DS9 literally jammed Ezri down everyone's throat. She got way to much screen time in S7, and her relationship arcs with Worf and Bashir were either half baked or completely cringe. I'm sure De Boer is wonderful, but DS9 would have been better with no Dax in S7 as opposed to what we got.
On #3, I am still brought back to the scene from "Blood Oath" when Jadzia meets Kor. He says, "Curzon, my beloved old friend!" She responds with, "I'm Jadzia now." And his adjustment and easy change over to, "Well, Jadzia, my beloved old friend."
For real. It's a super wholesome moment and shows that even for Klingons, transphobia is without honor.
"transphobia is without honor" (to be read in martoks voice)
This was my immediate thought too. Klingons seem to be one of those races that, despite their shortcomings, they accept others as they present themselves, as long as they present themselves with courage and honor. And Dax would do both of those, many times over.
Yup. No obnoxious "oooh, I dont understand pronouns, in my time there is only he/she, none of these they/them nonsense".
Well... Kor was getting up there in age, and that scene was pretty funny.
#11 she now hosts a ds9 podcast with quark, Harry Kim, and Tom paris
Got a name?
Terry and Armin were only GUEST not HOST on The Delta Flyers edition with Robert Duncan McNeill and Garette Wang of Voyager. Cirroc Lofton has a DS9 podcast called The 7th rule and Enterprise has their own podcast show called the Shuttlepod Show With Connor Trinneer and Dominic Keating.
The Delta Flyers (they're doing DS9 now that they've finished Voyager)@@tacarat
@@prometheusonealpha7580 what? they're still hosting it with Garrett and Robbie. You must've only listened to the first episode because every episode afterwards has had either Terry or Armin.
2:44 Never let anybody push you around. I left my job of 5 years late last year because of closeted racism, and was lucky enough to find another gig immediately because my unique skills (I work in sports recreation). I know some people aren't so lucky, but sometimes, self-respect is more important than a paycheque
The Symbiont in TNG completely took control of the host, another change.
I loved Terry Farrell....
And may I say...... Ellies voice is... beautiful...
AND ALSO .... MCCOY WAS A
STONE... COLD .......PLAYA!!!
AS A SOUTHERNER....,,👍
Star Trek inspired me to be open to different cultures, different races, different sexes. It was a vision of the future without prejudice. It's pretty surprising that the people behind the show had outdated traits towards women.
so you are ok with grooming children, got it.
Trill society has some serious issues I hope we can see them work on in a future series
A background factoid on why Trill society forbid previous associations. Originally the script said that was forbid because Trull society was concerned that it would lead to an elitist cast based system.
Where can I get more info on this?
@@sureshmukhi2316 I listen to a podcast Secrets of Star Trek with Jimmy Aiken (produced by SQPN). The episode about Dax’s former lover comes aboard the station was the featured episode of discussion. That was mentioned in passing. They take feedback e-mail so that would be a question about their sources.
When you cast one of the most beautiful women on the planet as an Alien. You don't cover that beauty with massive prosthetics .
to number 1: humans look different from different areas ... why not the aliens as well? not every vulcan is the same, not every trill, Kardashian, ferengi or whatever. I like visual variations in one species while still bein recognizable.
Agreed. That's why I enjoy seeing Vulcans with longer hair, even though that's more of a personal style choice than anything to do with genetics. However, it would be interesting to see the conversations around personal preferences and vanity between Vulcans on this front, as personal style is inextricably connected to the emotions they try so hard to purge.
There are minor differences between humans; yet they're still identiable as human. Same with Klingons, Romulans, Vulcans, Ferengi, Bajorans, the Andorians, the Borg, etc... all identifiable by similar physical traits without regard to skin color.
Unless there's an in canon reason why two or more physically different species coexist on Trill, then the different hemisphere explanation is hogwash. [On earth, we have species that exist and developed independently of each other, like dogs and cats, yet they're still identiable as dogs and cats.]
He he, Kardashian.
I would love to agree, but the difference between the ridges and the spots is a lot stronger than the differences we see in humans or other alien races. Recognizable being the keyword here. By look alone, no one would have guessed Odan and Jadzia were the same race. And that's only one part of the mystery. Odan's new host had no problem declaring her love to Dr. Crusher, in complete disregard for Trill society, as Dr. Kahn puts it.
@@petiteminish2863 The entire point of the scene was that Dr. Crusher could love Odan in his male form, but not his/her female form. I know that might seem problematic today, but the 1990s were alot more heteronormative. Even so, Dr. Crusher was a straight woman, and while she might still have feelings for Odan, she could not feel a romantic attraction in her female form. Like when some marriages amicably break up when one partner transitions.
Rick Berman was so horrible. What a stain.
I love that Terry Farrell never had a grudge against Nicole de Boer for taking the role. They became friends while on the con circuit.
Absolutely. And Nicole did a great job of carrying on the legacy.
Well it had absolutely nothing to do with Nicole D Boar. It was the misogynistic producers and even directors that threw revolting slurs at Terry. Terry, was at the very top of likeability in DS9, next to Avery Brooks. Yet they called her 'Action Barbie', 'Nothing but looks' and MANY other terrible, soul destroying slams... Jadzia was IMO the linchpin of DS9. How dare they turn her from a great performer to 'just a woman!'.... It makes me sick!!
If you have a photoshoot with Terry and Nicole, Terry refers to it as a "Dax Sandwich". Nicole hates that phrase though!
@Jaya-zn7vr: It was awful how they treated both character and actress. Dax was a great kick-ass character, a great strong role model, but they wanted to reduce her to eye-candy, it simply wasn't fair.
Jadzia Dax is one of my all time favorite Star Trek characters. That said, I celebrate Ezri Dax and I don't like the hate that Nicole de Boer gets.
I think it makes it feel a bit more real, it was like the viewer got to experance it first hand losing Jadzia, someone they had (known) for 6 years and then bam! A new Dax walks in.
Nicole wasnt very good as an actress versus what we lost.
Sisco still called Jadzia and Ezri "Old Man". Understandably it was a loving nickname.
I was so in love with Jadzia, and even though I don't plan on having kids at this point, I've always thougth Jadzia would be a beautiful name if I ever had a girl. Terry Farrell knocked it out of the park for that character.
It may be beta canon, but I love how Ezri herself becomes a captain in some of the novels, figuring that her many lifetimes worth of experience would be better put to use in Starfleet in command than in counseling. I wish they'd make this canon.
We had a Minature Dauchund named Dax because he was the size of a symbiote.
We loved him dearly. ❤️
Jadzia's advice to Sisko in "Emmisary" - "I suggest you get comfortable with your discomfort; time will do the rest" - is a really useful piece of advice to someone struggling with a loved one coming out. Yes, it's going to feel weird and strange, and you're going to slip up. Do your best, and you will get comfortable.
Just a reminder: In "Rejoined" you said Lenara Kahn was Torias Dax's wife, but to be specific it was Nilani Khan who was married to Torias, Lenara was the host to Kahn after Nilani and Jadzia was the host to Dax after firstly it's brief stint in Joran, followed by Curzon.
It is a subtle but I feel an important point, as both Lenara and Jadzia are both relatively young and relatively new to being joined in their current hosts, and had both changed and had both stayed the same in various ways since Torias' death. I consider it an allegory to meeting someone again after a long time apart after changing and growing, and dealing with the old and new feelings that re-emerge/develop.
Dax being a trans icon........ gods dang, Why didn't I never questioned why that character resonated with me so early in my life before?
Dax was born in 2018. Love to imagine a 5 year old symbiont out there somewhere!
Sisko did still call Dax “old man”
But that always felt like a private joke
I often have to remember that Ezri was only in the show for 25 episodes... She blended in so well that it took part of the sting of Jadzia's death.
DAMN YOU DUKAT!!!
Jadzia is one of favorite Trek characters - my wife & I named one our pugs Jadzia.
Dax is such an interesting character. I hope that one day we can see some part of Star Trek that happened during the Khitomer accords. I want to see Curzon in his prime. Hanging out with a young Ben Sisko, and becoming the Godfather to Kang's son.
Terry Farrell standards made the series better than it otherwise would have been. Sexist expectations for the show cast such as she experienced were unnecessarily harmful to all viewers, not just the actress alone. My hope is Ms Farrell will continue to experience success and a better quality of life because of her standards.
I always preferred Farrell as Dax, it's hard for me to pin down what it is about her portrayal of the character, not to mention the character herself, that is somewhat endearing and reassuring, with a level of intelligence, logic and free-spirited nature that just seemed, well, "nice", when DeBoer came along, I just felt she was too "neurotically cutesy", I still appreciated her as a new Dax, but never felt the same was as I did for Jadzia...
Jadzia was hotter and fit the popular girl tropes better than Ezri. That's why.
It's almost as if they were two completely different people, of them prepared her whole life to be joined and the other who never wanted to be joined and had a symbiote land in her lap because she was the only person there. with no prior training and conditioning to living as a joined being. I can't imagine why one of them would come across as mature and reassuring and the other just like the untrained young person she was. Not to mention the role was written specifically for one of them and she had years to work and develop the character while endearing herself to fans and the other got tossed in at the last minute replacement.
One season wasn't enough to develop Ezri' s character
You might have changed your mind with if she had another 5 seasons ;)
I always liked both characters but because of the performances rather than the writing. Jadzia only had 2 episodes that were not about a previous host or about worf. One of the eps was a romance of the week so bad, i suspect it was originally intended for Troi. Even jadzias death wasnt about her. Similarly Ezri only got one ep that wasmt about a previous host or worf. But the actresses were really good in the role's.
Hearing about all these different Dax hosts is like learning about the different Doctors
Sad fact about Dax, Jadzia is among, if not the shortest to hold the symbiote. Only surviving as host for 7 years. Curzon for example, is one of he longest at 81 years
Definitely not _the_ shortest, considering Joran. And another commenter makes the point that Dax was only ~350 during the events of _DS9,_ so if they were only joined for the first time at age 150, and Curzon had the symbiont for the majority of a century, the average lifespan of a Dax host must have been pretty short.
@@GSBarlev Well This is something that gets chalked up to continuity errors.
For one we know the symbiote was 150 years old before it was joined to its first host, Lela who held it for 58 years.
So given that by the time DS9 comes around its 350 years old. So that means only 200 years worth of hosts.
If you put Curzon and Leta together you have 140 years. Leaving 0nly 60 years for 6 hosts or an average of 10 years per. The likelihood of hosts only living an average of 10 years is beyond improbable that it requires suspension of disbelief.
Even if you say Joran only lived for a year, thats still 59 years for 5 hosts. 11.8 years? Thats a huge discrepancy given that we know most of the hosts lived to normal lifespans. So that should be at least 25 years or more with the symbiote. We also know some like Tobin loved to be elderly. So no matter how you look at it those numbers will never add up.
Its also hard to really hold Joran up as a host given he only held it less than a year, and the memories were suppressed. Which would logically be a feat they could pull off a memory wipe with the connection to that host being considerably weaker than an average host.
No offense to those that liked Ezri, but killing Jadzia will always be one of the stupidest decisions in Trek.
Rick was nasty to Denise Crosby too, It's sad he never lerned his lesson
I find it amazing that so many years later we find out just how much of a Beep Rick B was to his Shows Cast members.
I think it's safe to say Gene Roddenberry's right hand man was the wrong choice.
Gene himself wasn't the greatest guy, so it's not really a surprise.
@@vicroc4 Apparently Michael P was the best out of alot of them.
Try Reading The Novel, The Many Lives Of Dax
Ellie should have had Trill spots for this video!
I really can never proper express just how much I love the Dax character. Great video!
I don't know how true it is, but I'm pretty sure I've heard that when deciding on Dax's makeup Berman basically said "that looks like shit, let's just give her spots like we did with Famke" from the one horny ass episode in TNG. If true, I think it's the one good thing Berman has done.
Side note: I think Ezri would be the most loved Dax if Jadzia hadn't been killed off so unceremoniously and replaced 2 episodes later. Ezri is a much more dynamic and interesting character than Jadzia, who was already a great character.
I had heard that it was because Farrell's skin was too sensitive to the prostheses and that, like Michelle Forbes and the originally-planned Bajoran look, they didn't want to hide such an attractive face in makeup.
Happy 6th Birthday Dax 🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂🎂
what they are, they're a Gut Goa'uld/Tok'ra!
Well, the Trill DID come first. So I guess the Goa'uld would be neck Trill?
OMG. I have made this comparison more times than I can count. Bet anything there are evil ones just like there are in Stargate, not evil hosts like Juran but evil symbionts Star Trek never addresses how they are born, but I would not be surprised if they had a queen similar to the Goa'uld and the Tok'ra. After all those two are technically one species even though the Tok'ra hate being referred to as that.
@@MrTomSpencer Wouldn't it be amusing if we somehow met their queen and found out that she was the Tok'ra queen. L O L
@@MrTomSpencer I suppose the problem with that possibility would be that she was killed before enterprise even happened but maybe there is more than one Toka queen that they didn't know was still alive. Lol. Another solution to that issue could be that somehow someone in the temporal Cold War went back in time And eliminated her death.
I’m reminded of the TNG episode ‘Conspiracy’ where a number of Star Fleet officers were infected with a parasite which like the Goa’uld and Tokra in SG1 wound itself around the cervical spine of the ‘host’, and the queen resided in the abdomen of a humanoid, in this case Commander Remmick. However, Trill symbionts are different in a number of ways. At the time of DS9 don’t force themselves on Trill hosts, in fact humanoid Trill consider it a privilege and an honour to become conjoined. Nor does the symbiont overpower the psyche of the host, I think that the personalities of the host and symbiont sort of live together as a whole and the memories of all previous hosts are integrated into that whole. They aren’t snakelike like the Goa’uld, they have a teardrop shaped body which has mottled and bobbly skin. As I understand it, from seeing the surgery transferring Dax from Curzon to Jadzia on an early episode of DS9, Trill have a flap or fold across their abdomen through which the symbiont enters their body and then integrates with it. After 93 hours host and symbiont are dependent on each other and will die if separated. In conclusion, ‘Conspiracy’ is an interesting episode and it scores high on the Yuck scale, especially the end🤮.
Ellie you are beautiful enough to be the next Dax if they have the character return to Star Trek.
Ellie sort of rhymes with Ezri. 😉
2:47 good for Terry Ferrel
Wasn’t it established that Trill symbiotes do eventually “retire” back to the pools they came from after so many centuries pass because they can’t bond to another host after living so many lifetimes? So that Captain Dax could have been the last host of Dax.
Years of experience and knowledge show why Dax would make a great captain, as stated in the #1 spot, but this highlights one of my issues with Trek, as we almost exclusively see Humans in the admiralty. Vulcans can live for 200+ years, but we rarely see them serving as anything higher than Captains, which is a shame. By the Next Gen era, there had to be adult Vulcans, alongside Spock, who saw the majority of Starfleet and Alpha Quadrant history up to that point in time, so it behooves me that the Federation wouldn't harness that kind of experience more by putting them in higher offices and admiral positions. Vulcans and Trills for the win!
I never saw it as the Federation preventing Vulcans from being assigned a particular post or rank, but more as Cupcake using their logic to decide for themselves where they were best suited. Similar to how Kirk never enjoyed being an admiral and fully embraced his forced demotion at the end of ST:IV
Keep in mind that Vulcan's Best and Brightest go to the Vulcan Science Academy-Starfleet is just for their rejects and pariahs, as depicted in _Trek 2009_ and _Lower Decks._
In a universe where legends soar,
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They weave the present with the past.
Ten hidden gems, they deftly share,
With passion, humor, and thoughtful care,
Each fact revealed, a spark ignites,
Illuminating Dax’s starry nights.
From vibrant hosts to tales untold,
A symbiote’s journey, brave and bold,
With every line, their love shines through,
For characters old and new, we grew.
So here’s to Ellie, and the crew’s delight,
For guiding us through the cosmic light,
With every video, we boldly explore,
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Rick Berman wasn't just a misogynist he was known to be sexist homophobic and basically a creepazoid... Unfortunately most of those in charge of always been sexist, and male and in charge in the first place which is made it for many women working in both old and new Trek the kind of workplace that you wouldn't want to really be in, summer have been lucky enough that they were not on people's radar but others... The point is it happened to appreciate the fan version that has recently come out... With Mr Siddig Andrew j Robinson and many other former deep Space nine alum, it's about as close to getting a decent star Trek show with somebody who at least knows the past.
weirdly however he went to bat for both avery brooks and mulgrew when the higher ups wanted to get rid of them. He was horrible to Wil Wheaton but very accommodating to Colm Meaney.
Yup. He was the one that bollocksed up the TNG episode with the androgynous race. Frakes was heavily pushing for character he was trying to 'Riker Maneuver' to be played by a male actor - it was Berman who basically decided that was 'icky' and made all the actors of the race women.
@@RLplusabunchofdumbnumbers If I remember right in 50 year mission Berman claimed that if the character wasn't played by a woman then the studio wouldn't let the episode be shot at all.
It's difficult talking about Berman because he has such a mixed legacy. He always talked about Gene's legacy and how he wanted to make sure different races were represented, but let's not forget that roddenberry was also a woman hating bastard, and I think he and berman also had that in common.
I have come to the conclusion that I came to because of the fact if you listen closely to an interview he did you can see exactly how racist homophobic and sexist the man was, the fact is that that was how males in Hollywood in a positions of power could do whatever they wanted and get away with it, for the longest time. But think about this also the fact is some of these people could not have gotten away with what they got away with for so long if it wasn't for the fact that so many men turned a blind eye and so many women chose to be silent for out of fear of being blacklisted or worse.
@@claytonberg721 He claimed that, but it's not a claim backed up by literally anyone else who's spoken on the matter.
In the same way, Berman's version of what happened with Farrell is also backed up by no one else. It's a running theme with his claims.
I would love a deep dive into why most Dax hosts died so young. During DS9, Dax is about 350 years old, give or take. Sisko mentions at one point that Curzon was late for his own 100th birthday party, so we know he lived at least that long. That doesn't leave many years for the other hosts.
Especially when the Dax symbiont spent his first 150 years in a pool.
@@lyarrastark6254 Curson wasn't always joined. We don't know how old he was when he got the symbiote. Even Jadzia was in her 30s when she was joined. The impression I got was that Curson might have been one of the hosts that lived the longest.
@@dellytancyl524 Jadzia was under 30 in the 1st season of DS9 and one of the Klingons named his first son Dax in honor of Curzon Dax. If Curzon was not joined that time, the name would have been whatever Curzon's family name was before being joined. But the symbiont name always replaces the family name.
@@dellytancyl524 I didn't even mention Curzon, only the Dax symbiont.
If you weren't sold on Ezri, pick up the ST Destiny book series. Through disastrous circumstances, the series opens with her as Captain of the Aventine, and her storyline made me appreciate the character so much more.
"Deep Space Nine: Season 8" (the writing exercise led by Ira Behr in _What We Left Behind)_ also established her as a captain. My *number one wish* for the future of _Trek_ is for Captain Ezri Dax to meet her expy, D'Vana Tendi (and maybe throw in Rok-Tahk for good measure).
What about the Dax on Star Trek 6? The one with the gravity boots in their locker.
that crew member had no use for boots
This character was created before DS9 was, so I assumed that it was a different character who just happened to have a similar name. It is possible that when creating Jadzia the writers either liked the sound of the name and decided to reuse it, or invented the name from scratch and only later discovered that it was used in the movie already, but it was too late to change it. This is just my own guesswork, and I may be wrong. But if someone else can track down the real story it would make an interesting video. (Hint, hint.)
Star Trek Discovery wasted opportunity to reintroduce Dax to younger generation instead they made Tal.
Such waste...
I know we hate memberberries and fanservice but I really, really want Emony Dax to show up in SNW.
Makes me wish that a New Dax should make a small cameo at the final season of Discovery.
Well Ellie, nice video but I already knew this stuff and I bet many Jadzia fans already knew this too.
I never thought of Dax as homosexual bi or pan. I just thought of Dax as Dax. It is what it is.
Last episode of season 6 is still my least favourite.
Nicole deboar did a great job. The Worf angle was great and again brought something to the whole storyline.
The reimagining of sexual pretense is very strong in media today. Jadziah was never a gay icon. I grew up with the series, and the story, brief mind you, where she comes back to encounter a past symbiote wife is not lesbianisn, it is also not treated as such in the story. What are you talking about, Trek Culture?
My Trill headcanon is, some symbionts have such strong personalities they subsume that of the host. As such, a different humanoid species is contracted to be hosts. These "super symbionts" are also sensitive to transporters.
Riker found out the hard way.
About inherited traits: you can think of them as vectors.
If a trait appears to only one personality, then it will not become a dominant trait.
If it appears in several personalities, even at a low intensity, it could become dominant.
Circumstances and enviromental pressure can also affect the intensity of the traits, because hosts that display traits that are not beneficial to the survival of the symbiont, won't survive long enough to pass these traits along- think of it as a kind of accelerated evolution.
In fact, ( well, not factually, but...), the longer the symbiont survives, the more some traits solidify themselves as dominant and will most likely manifest themselves in every subsequent host.
Keeping these hypotheses in mind, you may not predict exactly which traits will manifest themselves at what intensity, but you can make an educated guess.
For instance, several of the previous hosts had a measure of athletisism/combat prowess/ killer instict, so I wouldn't mess even with the most out of shape and inexperience host!
This is supposed to be facts about Dax not Terry. This is one of the many reasons I don't subscribe to this channel and am pissed every damn time I'm tricked into watching one of your videos.
Are people sure that the Star Trek Online Dax isn’t related to the Star Trek 6 Dax?
I always wondered how Trills discovered the symbiont in thier planets history and that they can put them into thier stomach and be thier hosts. It is not like these symbionts can take a host like those snake things (couldn't spell them)on Stargate SG-1.
We don't know how large a juvenile symbiont is, nor do we know how they reproduce. Imagine they're like tapeworms-originally they were parasites that got into their hosts' abdomens through infested food.
Since there are _real world_ parasites that can exert some measure of mind control (for example, it's postulated that people who love cats have a parasite that, in rodents, makes the host less cautious around felines), it's not a stretch to imagine Trill _co-evolving_ that capability.
The real question is at what point they switched to symbiosis instead of parasitism. Maybe it was a conscious choice, like with the Tok'Ra faction of the Goa'Uld.
All the way down! Sorry I watch too much Orange River
One more fact:He was there when earth launched the nx-02
As a teen i was enamored with Dax. I was amazed how gorgeous the actress was. Now as an adult i can look back at how gorgeous she really was and is. Yikes she still gets my heart pumping good lord
Trill are the Star Trek version of Bene Gesserit Reverend Mothers from Dune, able to access memories of their ancestors.
Jadiza Dax is my favorite character in all of Star Trek
Trying to link trans people to Trill is ridiculous.
Canon nerds are the worst when it comes to this and can accept that the look was retcon'd bc the original sucked
did not like Ezra Dax - Jadzia is the only Dax for me
Here is the thing about the symbiotes. They are sexless.
If Dax had re-associated with her former partner, played by Suzanna Thompson, then Dax would have been with The Borg Queen (OK, not really, but sorta, since ST played the Borg Queen in the middle of Voyager (and did a damn fine job of it too!). She also played the mother to Annie Wersching's character in Timeless, who then went on to play The Borg Queen (before being taken too young by cancer.). It's not _quite_ as complex as Davison, Tenant, Georgia Moffat etc, but it's close. :)
That is some crazy connections! 😧 Star Trek really is a small world!
@@NineWorldsFromDrew "To seek out new life and civilisations... as long as they'll go on to be the Borg Queen or are played by Jeffrey Combs"
@@adamfoxton6341 Exactly! 🤣🤣🤣
Don't forget the Dax from ST VI who was probably no relation 😂
According to the script, that Dax was not a Trill, but a Megazoid. And a Zeosian in the novelisation.
Of all the Dax's my fav is Jadzia Dax.
On a show full of terrific characters, Dax was the one who fascinated me. I think they could have given Dax his/her own show.
There's a short story anthology called *The Lives Of Dax* that would make for a fantastic miniseries...
Not buying the misogynist story.
I like the character of Jadzia Dax and it's such a shame she was killed off at the end of Series 6. Blood Feud is my favourite episode of DS9.
Jadzia wasn't "killed off" so much as it was Terry who walked away from Berman's bullshit and he acted like the stupid misogynist, sexist, man-child that he was and gave her character the worse send off in history just to satisfy his ego.
i loved where she told Sisko " the next time i go off on a wild eyed adventure think back to this moment and be a bit more understanding"
It was a dark day when Jadzia left.
What episode is the TH-cam image from? 😂😂 great choice.
It looks like it's from a very rare outtake from any one episode where she was at her station in Ops.
I love Jadzia!
WHY????? IS IT symbiont , not symbiote
It's more sci-fi?
Kmart for you
That was fun. :)
Good stuff.
Which 1?
Seymbiance
Symbiont
🖖🖖😆🖖🖖🍁
I still miss Jadzia 😘
Its really odd to not hear Ellie close out a video saying "goodbye sweeties"
Dax should’ve been the symbiant in Discovery.
I was kind of shocked that they didn't, though it was _absolutely the right_ decision to bring in a new symbiont-the galaxy is too big a place for Spock's sister to mentor the science officer from _Deep Space Nine._
I thought so also at first, but I'm glad they didn't because I don't care for the way they portray the Trill on DISCO.
Huh. I completely forgot that a Dax captained the J. Lol, damn that ship is HUGE though...terrible shame that it's not much more powerful than it is and that it's a Temporal ship, in terms of Bridge Officer seating. I would've preferred it to be a Command/Miracle Worker ship with a LOT more Weapon Power. I was SO excited to get it late last year, only to find it to be a lame duck, after years of wanting it and having thought that I had missed the chance of ever obtaining the ship since it came from an old, discontinued Lock Box.
In retrospect, I wish they had played up the fact that it was captained by a Dax now too.
I always thought Terry was just kicked off the show
I guess im the only one who hated that they killed Jadzia off and how that affected Worf. The man cant catch a break romantically... He finally found his equal in Jadzia and rather than recast the role OF Jadzia, they kill her off and transfer the symbiont to a new host.
You're not the only one. He risked his career to save her in "Change of Heart" only to have her killed by Ducat. I am surprised Worf didn't want to kill Ducat after that.
I would have thought you would have brought up how Trill symbiotes are similar to Time Lords.
so the trill are basically time lords
Always glad to see Ellie
When the crew of the defiant prevented the ship from landing, what's wrong with this question? It's simple. They didn't. The alternate Odo did. did. please get it right guys.
Thanks.
The rainbow crew always try to draw those long bows!
To be honest I didn't like Jadzia. She was too rigid, too formal and way too perfect. I prefer Ezri much more. Curzon character intrigued me though more than Jadzia. He was a renowned Federation diplomat, spy, he had many adventures and was Sisko's mentor. A series about him would be like James Bond in space.
I liked Ezri better than Jadzia. While Jadzia was always professional when on duty, I always felt that she had a certain smugness that always rubbed me the wrong way. She often pulled people into situations where they were uncomfortable (taking Kira into the holosuites, which she explicitly said she didn't like, or almost anything she coerced Worf to do, though he was just as stubborn). Not only did Dax ignore their discomfort but would often emphasize they were wrong to disagree with her. In short, she expected people to see things her way, but did not want to extend the same courtesy. I honestly don't think that Jadzia and Worf's marriage would have lasted. They had nothing in common (something Worf pointed out more than once); their relationship being largely based on physical attraction and Jadzia pushing them to marry early, ostensibly because of the war, and later to consider having children, which was pointed out would be difficult, both come off as desperate polys by Jadzia to hold onto Worf and/or fix an unstable relationship.
Ezri, on the other hand, I found cute and quirky. She had doubts and flaws that made her seem so much more relatable. And her interactions with the other characters seemed so much more natural because she was never trying to dominate a social situation. Complicated though it was, I even think her interactions with Worf were more emotionally healthy than before.
The producers of DS9 literally jammed Ezri down everyone's throat. She got way to much screen time in S7, and her relationship arcs with Worf and Bashir were either half baked or completely cringe. I'm sure De Boer is wonderful, but DS9 would have been better with no Dax in S7 as opposed to what we got.