How Much Power Are You Losing w/ Extensions? Dyno Test 3" 6" 15"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
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This video is especially for the sometimes learning adverse folk of TikTok (justinp_4.0 included) who think extensions on an impact wrench work just like extensions on a torque wrench. 3" v 6" v 15" (1, 2 & 3pc) vs Harbor freight wobble Extensions. This is what we bought: amzn.to/3lifnmG What type and length of socket extension will lose the most amount of power and why? We all use these every day, and we know they rob power from our impact wrench, but how much? We chart this loss on a graph so you can do your own cost benefit analysis.
Disclaimer: This pertains to extensions used with an impact, not hand tools. The torsion action of the extension bar is absorbing some of each impact blow, inefficiently translating it down the length and turning that impact force into heat rather than work. With constant and gradual force like a torque wrench this is completely avoided in most cases.
Can you list your email again. I'm interested in sending you a few impacts to test.
@@timothydillon6421 TorqueTestChannel@gmail.com :)
Should have put all of them together like six feet long and mesure torque just for shits and giggles.
So with a hand torque wrench there’s no loss when using extensions?
So if I used 48 inches of extensions and a swivel, plus my eclectric Impact does idk maybe 150lbs. My housing bolts are not torqued 75lbs. Probably.
This is why we want the impact wrenches with absurd overkill power, because even with a 50% torque loss, we’re able to apply sufficient torque thru that 24” reducing adapter down to that 3/8 swivel onto a bellhousing bolt while holding one eye shut and cursing.
I was watching this wondering how tight my bell housing bolts actually are 🤔
I had to use an 1 inch air gun to remove the 4 axle nuts on my Subaru Outback no joke, my cousin at first gave me is 1/2 inch electric gun it more than enough, after i switch to the 1/2 air gun no succes so i took the 1 inch good to remove truck wheel and it barely moved at first after 15 sec the nuts started to speed up i was damn.
if youre using an impact on a bellhousing bolt whatsoever please remind me never to let you work on my cars
@@dingusbingus8554 looks like someone’s never worked on cars in their life
@@dingusbingus8554 “tell me you’ve never removed a transmission, without TELLING me you’ve never removed a transmission.”
Hard to carry this thing around without blushing 😂
You know how it goes, Eric 🤣
What's he gonna do....chop it off?
"Now there's your problem..."
Hilarious!
I thought the same thing! 😂
I love the graphs. Much better than just getting a final number at the end of each test.
This channel is amazing. This is like mythbusters for mechanics!
Nut Busters
Hahaha!!! Yes sir exactly. I love it. 😎
It would be cool to see how accurate torque sticks are with
High torque pneumatic and electric
Mid torque pneumatic and electrical
You just read my mind 👍
I think that is a great idea, it would show how effective torque sticks are with varying power going into them and if they can actually be trusted. Here in the province of Alberta anyway and not sure if its a Canada wide practice but the torque wrench is the final item used to check wheel bolt torque where as from what I gather in the USA its a lot more random in shop practices with the methods they use for mounting wheels for example. Here it used to be that same way but that changed a number of years ago, I suspect too many wheel off or loosening issues due to aluminum wheels and lug nut style that seem to be more critical.
Torque sticks are going to be more accurate with an air gun because the gun needs to be calibrated to the sticks. Once you find the correct settings for each stick on one particular gun you can write them down and you're good to go from then on.
@@Pro1er Interesting as I've never bothered to buy a set of torque sticks so didn't have them available to test out on wheels. That tells me they could be very inconsistent if the air supply is not 100 % regulated to a set value as per air tools and which air tool is being used. Now electric, well they could be more accurate as it takes out that variable but the proof will be in the testing on this channel.
@@charlesb4267 That's how torque sticks work, they need a consistent power delivery (PSI) for best accuracy. With a battery operated gun a low battery can affect the torque of the gun as well, but the issue is that there is no way to dial up or down the amount of torque the gun is applying so you have to take that into account when measuring the sticks and compensate thusly. I use my sticks on a battery gun and they work fine but you have to remember torque sticks are not meant to be a replacement for a torque wrench, they work well for wheel lugs which is what I use mine for, but they are not meant for things like head bolts.
All information, no fluff, straight to the point. This channel is going places.
Well... it's time to test torque sticks now!
So length DOES matter?!
I’ve been lied to!
Inversely in this case! lol 😆
Yeah, this is why I care A LOT for “nut busting”!
I know them liking it when it removes in them fast and hard hitting’ them..
Hey, I’m just talking about sockets though 😆
And angle apparently
Hahaha!!! LOL!!! 😂😂😂😂😂
Awesome info! You should stack all the wobbles together and see what the loss is, you know for science 'n stuff :P
You guys are sick, love it. We can put something together shortly
Maybe stand behind a wall too. 🤣
@@Jonjims1532 We might have to stack enough together so that we're around the corner for that mess!
I love this channel. Yall seem like you have so much fun.
@@Jonjims1532 We work full time jobs, so this a hobby. It's what we want to be doing with our free time. Using tools the rest of the week can be a slog, so using them here in fun and sometimes stupid ways is like a vacation!
This is so interesting and answer so many questions I had. Funny to see that the distance seems to be more important than the number of connections
I wonder if that means that the metal itself is twisting rather than losing power in the connection
@@TheJttv It should be. Those extensions are impact rated, so they should be fairly elastic compared to other tool steels.
In any case its funny to see how number of connections isnt the big bad that its claimed to be
@@kvernesdotten bad practice but would have been interesting to see a non impact extension tested.
This channel is going to get real big. Real quick.
This takes the cake as the most useful video I've seen all year, if not the last decade. Thank you for this.
U tool testers r doing gods work. Answering my random curiosity I've thought about but never tested.
I can't believe you had all those extensions and didn't try puting them all together.
Today we are trying a 45 3/4” extension
Yeah, i clicked on this video specifically for that test.
I just really want y’all to know that this has become one of my favorite channels to watch. As soon as I see you post a video, I’m watching it. Great stuff man. Please keep up the great work.
I, like others, would like to see chrome vs impact and torque sticks (new vs aged).
This channel is great!! So many things I’ve been told throughout my career being put to the test.
As always great testing. I'm looking forward to seeing the universal joint vs pinless universal joint tests.
Yeah not all Uni joints are created equal!
Nice work as always. You guys do a fantastic job with editing. I can’t wait to see how the universal sockets pan out.
So cool to watch your channel grow. I knew instantly that this was gonna be a fantastic channel. Thanks, again, for everything you do! 🙏🏼
1st off you have the most professional channel on the Internet. As an engineering I had to run tests. You are number 1 consistent. This video on extension torque loss explains the dreaded Honda crankshaft bolt. I used a 450 Ft/lb air drive torque wrench with at least a 12 in extension. Maybe longer. It's been a while. Eventually got it loose with a 30 inch breaker bar plus the 24 inch cheater pipe adding another foot, and of course an extension that was about 15 inches. So your test shows the torque is basically cut in half which solves one of the major questions in the universe.
Amazing channel, thanks to Eric O for pointing it out. Love the practicality of this. Even from a DIYer perspective. Knowing the torque gain or loss with your tools, gives a new meaning to "right tool for the right job."
This has to be one of the most underrated TH-cam channels out there. Good job and keep up the good work 👍👍
I do like to use the wobble extensions. I figured they gave up some torque but sometimes it's the difference between having to do it by hand and being able to use the impact.
Can you make video of impact sockets vs regular ? How much they loose the power of torque.
Grettings from Poland :D
i cant tell you enough how perfect this channel is. no fluffy shit.
Test the Honda heavy crank pully socket vs impact sockets. Or large chrome vs large impact sockets.
I watched this when it first came out. I was watching some other channels on other things and this popped up so figured I would watch it again. It made me think of a repair I did 20 years ago that I had forgotten about. I was changing a starter on a '81 Freightliner out in the middle of a field. It was -16 snowing and blowing. That starter was stuck on their and difficult to get to. I ended up using a few feet of extensions with a 1/2" craftsmen wobble. A few reducers were used as well. I was running a 1" IR impact reduced to 3/4" extensions then reduced again to 1/2". I was running it off an IR trailer compressor with a 1" air hose. It finally broke those bolts loose. I wondered how much power I lost and I bet it was a lot. The impact would be an older equivalent for the 285B-6 I was running 160 or so PSI.
The live drawing graph is awesome, a great touch i havent seen in any TH-cam test vids before.
Have to say I love this channel and how it’s puts everything to the test! That being said I would love to see how using a 1/2 to 3/8 reducer or the other way around effects torque. Also would like to see how torque sticks are affected by air or electric impacts, top end vs low end. Keep up the amazing work!!
You guys are GREAT! Only people that don't have an interest in one brand vs. the other can do this. Please keep this testing of various tools and accessories up!
This is a great test and something I’ve tried to explain to people before. The amount of loss from an impact gun through an extension will vary massively, not only dependant on the rigidity/length of the extensions themselves but also dependent on the impact gun itself. Some guns use bigger hammers, some use smaller hammers but hitting at a higher frequency to achieve the same output at the chuck. In my experience, bigger hammer guns overcome the flex of an extension better and don’t lose as much torque.
1/2 to 3/4 adapter, 3/4 extension then a 3/4 to 1/2 reducer would be interesting for long extension use.
How is this channel still so underground?! Been waiting years for someone to do this.
Would like to see the difference between impact and chrome sockets
Wow I must say I was actually surprised at the resulting loss of torque with this!! I’ve always heard that using extension will create a loss of torque but I never would have thought it would have been a 50% loss of torque! That’s just crazy to me! Well done.
Thanks for doing this test. I don't think it's taught in trade schools. I have long observed a significant loss using extensions and knuckle joints. Now I can see just how bad the loss is. Of course normally you have no choice other than a long extension bar so you can reach the bolt.
It was taught at Ohio diesel institute when I went back in 94, it pertained to ratchet applied torque though because it really makes no difference with removal. If it comes off great if it doesn't get a bigger gun, that's why sockets come in different drive sizes. Application torque is where it becomes crucial to accurately account for loss and that's done with hand tools. Even lugs, zip em down with a gun and check em with a torque wrench. I've never seen a torque figure given for getting a nut or bolt off, they are however given for putting them back on. Common sense goes a long way, the longer an extension, the less torque is gonna be transmitted.
I first learned about torque loss reading in a MSC catalogue about torque wrenches. This video was a lot more fun to watch.
Really cool to see the numbers across all these tests! The end outcome was no surprise but nobody has ever provided the actual numbers, and that’s what makes this so interesting. Keep these videos coming please! Thanks for the education 👍💯💯
Thank you for testing this! I've always wondered about this and especially the impact swivel you mentioned.
I've never subscribed on the first video I've watched on a channel till now. Awesome work!
Wow, thanks!
amazing! really useful stuff. Data to back my gut, but what was really surprising to me is, regardless of the number of parts (one piece vs two vs three), It was the combined length that drove the final peak torque, not the sloppy joints, yet the curves to get there did matter.
This is amazing see the graph and how everything is put together really good
My mind is blown. Big, important lessons here. Sharing with gearheads. Thanks!
Thanks for the video. I expected some loss but the result was much more dramatic than expected.
I commented on your video testing heavier sockets a little while ago, and this supports the idea that the losses come from the twist of the tooling and rebound at the junctions. Twisting losses in these tests are preeminent over rebound losses because of the high aspect ratio of the tooling. I bet if you swapped one of the extensions for a deep socket of the same length, it would improve over both the 2-piece and solid 15” extensions because the low aspect ratio socket will resist twisting better than the high aspect ratio extensions.
I look forward to comparing a wobble extension with a universal joint.
This is the channel I didn't know I needed, but I definitely need it now
Really cool info. Essentially, longer extensions act just like torque sticks. Makes sense!
that's actually really fascinating so basically the more joints of extensions you use....it takes a way longer time to get to your targeted torque.
Your videos are top quality
I love this test! I love the way you grafted out the torque curves! Can't wait to see more! Now subscribed!
The important thing to remember is that losing a significant portion of your torque is better than having no torque. I'd always prefer 250lb-ft on a fastener than 0lb-ft.
I love this channel sm help me so much working on my engineering project and buying the right tools
Would there be any difference in power with a snap on extension vs cheap extension? Different quality of steel???
Let's find out!
Excellent testing and real world results.
Thanks for sharing.
I think the torsional spring effect is what reduced the torque. The same thing that's supposed to make torque sticks work. What I'd like to see tried is comparing the direct torque using just a socket to the torque transferred using a 1/2 F to 3/4 M input to a 3/4 by 6" impact extension with a 3/4 to 1/2" drive adaptor on the other end. In theory, if the couplings don't matter, which is what your testing shows, the radically increased torsional stiffness should increase the torque transmission. One could also do it with a 1" drive x 6" extension using suitable 1/2" drive adaptors on each end.
Yesterday I had to take off 32 5/8-11 nuts rusted into place by 10 years of the skid-steer's use loading salt in salt spreaders. They were so badly corroded I could split laminated metal separations off using a cold chisel and drive on a 7/8" socket in place of the nominal 15/16 required when the nuts were new. My Milwaukee 2767-20 removed 100% of the nuts that could be accessed without an extension, but only 4 of the sixteen that required a 6" extension so I could get the wrench on them. I hammered on a 7/8" socket and used a breaker bar with 3' extension which worked just fine, but I'd rather the wrench worked. I didn't have the bits in hand to cludge up a stiffer extension, hence the suggestion.
Extremely well made video!!! Great job man!!
That moving chart is awesome. Makes it that much more interesting.
Always quick to pick up an impact. To afraid to bust ya knuckles! Back in my day 👊💪 these was the only tools we needed !
Work smarter not harder
for those of you wondering, these are essentially giant torsion springs. They make less force at the end because the torque goes into twisting the bar instead of twisting the nut. So your energy is lost in the extension.
The wobble ones do the same thing, but because its harder to keep it straight they lose force there plus the skinnier section twists easier losing even more. When they are tilted though they lose force because the force itself is actually not vectored into the turning of the nut.
100% Well said!
Any thoughts on testing corded electric impact guns?
We bought one! We're having an outlet installed next to the rig so we don't have to use an extension cord - so it's taking a bit longer than usual.
I'm kinda impressed with the harbor freight extensions,
I thought the little wobble end was gonna snap right off with the first impact
Sometimes Harbor Freight tools forget they're cheap.
This channel worth its weight in pneumatics
Numbers Matter !
Data Matters !
FACTS MATTER…REGARDLESS OF THE SUBJECT MATTER !
keep up the work !
one thing Ive noticed for those really stubborn bolts is don't hold the impact tight, let the socket and extensions (if you're using them) bounce back and forth, that seems to break them loose when holding it tight so it doesn't bounce wont.
Hands down the best video on TH-cam. Im interested in the difference between sizes now (¼,⅜,½, and hex drill bits).
Will you test a 6” anvil impact again a standard anvil impact with the 6” extension
Deal
@@TorqueTestChannel what about torque limiting stick with the socket made into it vs a torque limiting extension and a socket?
That would be an interesting test. My guess would be the gun with the anvil would perform better than the extensions as most extended anvil guns i've used are thicker than the extensions. But they do seem to have less oompf than their snub nose couterparts. It would be interesting to see by how much.
Id be curious to see the difference in a 24” extension in an impact version, versus a standard chrome version. I use these extensions a lot when doing transmissions. I typically break the initial tension loose by hand and then finish with an air ratchet because the impact gun wont normally break them free.
Yeah them tranny bolts end up using hella long extensions lol on trucks at least
That’s it, I’m in, I subscribed after seeing your video for the first time, I’ve always wondered about such things.
Congratulations you've successfully reinvented the hydraulic press channel concept
An excellent test as always. It’s just that sometimes you got to use what you got to use to get the job done.
Man this is such a well put together video. Thank you!
Really cool to see you guys making these videos, I’d be curious to see the extensions being used again but have the operator hold the extension with their hand. I’ve had to do it a few times and it does work to get things loose.
I love the channel. Very informative and just fun to watch. I've seen videos done very similarly on other channels and they got the same numbers coming to the conclusion that the extensions didn't cause losses. I always figured they did but now I'm curious how their tests shows such different results when seemingly done in the same manner?
Great video. Something I’ve always wondered about
Yesterday had a 1" impact reduced to 3/4" for the socket as I wasn't interested in breaking out the hytorque. Started with a 3/4" drive 8" extension crossing fingers it would be enough. It was for all but 3 bolts. 2 I got with swapping for a 1" extension, the last required being warmed up. We have snap on cordless impacts in the shop and Milwaukee there is only one of us that will go for the snap on first, everyone else goes straight to the fuel impacts.
3:45 I didn’t know this channel had humor as well.
Caught me off guard with that one!
Listen to the one they have about the DP impact from amazon.
Tried to undo the exhaust downpipe nuts on my 3.5L V6 Trooper/Jackaroo - needed 20" extension to reach them, and unsurprisingly the home grade impact wrench failed to loosen them. I fetched out the Shentai 12V impact wrench I had never used before - these work by spinning up a hammer mechanism and giving a thump to the socket every 3 or 4 seconds. The damn thing undid the nuts easily. On the same vehicle it undid the diff flange nut easily after failing to budge it with a massive breaker bar and pipe extension. More than one way to skin a cat, as they say :)
Absolutely outstanding video, thanks!
I assume the metal of the extension is twisting which is where the torque is lost?
I wonder if there are any different brands that are less suspectable to that flex that would perform better.
Good Job Torque Test. For me the loss of torque was even greater than I thought it would be with the extensions.
I've tried this with my non impact 1/2" extensions and the difference is off the charts!
When changing my trans, I had to use all extensions in that Neiko kit for 30" plus a swivel to get to the bell-housing bolts... Used with DeWalt DCF899.
would be interesting to see if it makes any difference to the curve swapping the positions of the stacked extensions ... just for the sake of testing of course.
Wow this is great info. Love the graphs
This explains a lot about removing semi starter bolts.
Did my own accidental 3/8 extension test at home. Took two rear C4 wheel bearing bolts out with a long 10ish chrome craftsmen BUT I had to stop n run to HF before they closed for something else. While at HF I bought their impact extension set(not the wobble) and returned home and the 3rd bolt would not but loose, got a stronger gun and still nada. Swapped back to the craftsmen chrome same length and bam right out! HF impact twist too much!
Well I guess now I have 162 channel subs lol. Loving these test videos for sure. Keep em coming!
I have a set of the wobble impact extensions, they’re actually quite handy with my lower TQ 18v Ryobi for general low tq requirement use.
amazing, I was always wondering how much torque gets lost using extensions, thx a lot, very informative.
Could you test those color coated torque sticks?? I might venture as far as to send you a set I have lying around the shop.
We have a machine where I work that can only be accessed with extensions. You don't have enough room to get an impact directly on it. And we all use Milwaukee 18v cordless impacts. When they're direct, they have plenty of power to do most jobs. But when you start stacking extension on to it you lose so much so fast.
In practice, most of the time I need any sort of extension, I need all 3 of those harbor freight wobble extensions, all at angles, to actually reach the bolt or nut. I think the losses from that can be inferred pretty well from what was tested, but it would be cool to see the actual numbers.
I have an M18 Fuel impact that does 1100ft-lb, not because I need 1100ft-lb, but because after all those losses I still need a couple hundred at the end.
I broke a whole set of those harbor freight wobble extensions in about five minutes. Went back, got another set, broke all but the longest. That one seems to have had witches tears put in the mix, it’s been a strong one
very interesting results, never knew the extensions made such an impact
Oh very clever, your toast!
Im new here in the channel, i was wondering, are torque sticks reliable? Could you guys test 'em?
Something that might be something you could test somehow... is there an effect on air tools depending on they type, and amount, of oil used when lubricating
Like using “unapproved” oils. Or maybe “approved” oils that are regular vs “synthetic” options too. Idk lol
Damn, I wouldn't have guessed a solid 15'' extension would lose that much torque.
Didn’t want to take off my air filter box and throttle body to get to the lower alternator bolt on Ford Explorer so I put 2 six inch extensions, a swivel adapter and the socket on my Rigid mid-torque. Was surprised I couldn’t remove it and had to break out the rarely used high torque.