It's in a really bad place regarding power management though. Not enough capacitors to keep weapons at 100% ammo capacity if you use an energy loadout, not enough coolers to meet minimum cooling requirements, not enough power plants to keep most things powered. Having multiple smaller shield generators is actually really bad for power consumption and EM signature vs having fewer bigger shields. You basically have to dump boost to power everything else. The absolute worst part of the redeemer for me though is the asinine layout of the interior. Why are the dropseats on the TOP floor and the crew quarters on the BOTTOM? The drop seats need to be close to the exit and the crew quarters need to be close to the...... crew.
Lol A) You make some valid points here. I only lol'd because I agree with the layout comment wholeheartedly. B) Yeah - as someone else commented, the power supply issue is hugely apparent at the moment. Hopefully they do some tuning there to make full energy weapons viable while still leaving some boost for us to use. I REALLY hope they're not trying to force us into using ballistics. I don't like the idea of having to resupply often.. and I HATE the idea of running out of ammo in the middle of battle. This is especially the case because - despite its maneuverability buff, you're not going to flat outrun most things out there. Thanks for watching & leaving a comment.
The retaliator suffers from the same problem of being given 6 size 2 shield and only 2 power plants, not to mention the 5 turrets that need power, several times I’ve dropped out of qt mode and lost power to engines because everything else used all of it
@@cjak4958 Yeah, the power plant to shields thing is a serious issue right now. I wouldn't be surprised if adjustments came in some patches in the next year.
Hey I appreciate that! It took a surprisingly long time to get it to where I was ok with publishing it. I've been working to get more comfortable by doing short form content too. Thanks very much for the sub.
Good video and makes some decent points. Cig said that the redeemer was to strong for it size and needed a rebalance as they called it. But sadly with the new anvil paladin announced witch is pretty much the old redeemer in a anvil coating it till feels bad all the sudden its oo for this size ship to be that strong. And tbh i feel that the redemer now needs a new rebalance to put it in its fair place again.
I missed that bit of the nerf - apparently I was stuck on everything else - that is a huge drop. We gotta make some noise to get some of this reversed.
great video, only just discovered you, subbed. love the structure and that the length is not too long or the narrative overly rambling. and especially that you start with manoeuvrability here, I also think this is the crucial change in this case.
Ok so about the firepower loss of the 4 s5 to 4s4. right now a s5 gun is closer to 150% of the dps of a s4, meaning 2 s4 >1 s5 so its lost firepower is closer to the combined total of 2 s4 guns.
I mostly liked your video but thought your whole section about solo pilot PVP was incredibly poor. If you had of repeated the tests with a gunner then it would have been a good test. You also didn't bother to look up the s4 to s5 weapon stats so don't know if what you said was misleading and you didn't mention that s3 shields were nerfed. That aside, I liked the topic, your editing and music was great. Your speech and sounds quality was great and overall I like how you presented your perspective. Apologies for being negative, this was overall good stuff.
Roger that - there seems to be a discrepancy between the video processing software I use & the final product. I watched/exported/rerendered the video at least 4 times before publishing - but now I have a better idea about where my volume settings should be! Thanks for the sub!
Would love to see a Medivac version of the Redeemer. RIP out the drop seats up top and replace with crew beds. Downstairs would be the med bed where the old crew bunks were. The boost to manoeuvrability makes this ship so much more fun and appealing now.
@ I also harbour the same design for the Anvil Valk. RIP out the forward left and right troop seats and replace with 2 x med beds. Use the hangar for a vehicle to go and recover the battlefield wounded.
@@eziiii3536 yeah sadly I think you’re right but it’s a game that appeals to our dreams and I like the art of the possible and theory crafting side of this game a lot 😊
i understand your POV regarding the redeemer's place and balance in the verse. But let me put it simply. CIG basically is scamming us all by just selling us ships that state this and that then in the end turning full 180 and saying its going to be this after receiving their CASH and money from us. EXAMPLE; You design and sell the Ares Ion/Inferno ships. You specifically designed it with a S7 gun. Then nerf it to a S6 gun. What does that tell u? was it a design flaw misconception? or was it a marketing scam that gets u to buy the ship only to not give what u bought it and advertised it for after receiving the money. That is basically scamming people for their money. Its what CIG does and u approve of them for balancing it. This is not how u nerf or buff ships in regards to designing ship or a game. They did it wrong, a nerf is something that doesn't change the fundamental design but tweak the numbers and handling. So your opinion is totally ur opinion and mine is mine but for this video i'd say i'd disagree with your pov. Thanks for reading too :)
If they leave the flight alone and give it a shield bump, I think it would be a great close support escort. What would be even more crazy is if the turrets were automated and tracked what you locked on too😂 It would be fire.
THe problem is to many multicrew ships are to strong used solo. CiG has to start balancing somewhere and we will see with engineering and armor see some other important parts for that coming online. I think the downsizing of weapons is a important part of it but should maybe come when engineering and armor is in.
Thanks for the comment.. and yup! Dedicated multicrew ships really shouldn't be super strong when they aren't (at least) partially crewed. That's why I think this is a step in the right direction.
I love the changes. I don’t need a meta ship. I want an interesting and fun ship and this is what they’ve made the redeemer It’s no longer a mini hammerhead. That’s an area denial ship. The redeemer is the ultimate anti fighter ship because it can go after them. But that’s just it. It’s anti fighter. It’s not made to go after large ships
I absolutely love the Deemer, but I hated how lumberingly it flew. It was unwieldy to the point that it was useless. Did not try it now with the new stats, but the manoeuvrability tune finally makes it look usable. Too bad new ship sales keep nerfing military ships, would be fun if each ship went all out and was fully optimized by the military to be the best it possibly be to do the one thing it was meant to be, good in a military setting.
I loved it too. I always thought it would be a staple in my fleet. But I had to make some decisions recently.. so my daily driver is a Guardian. I melted the redeemer for something that filled a different role. New ships just tend to function better, unfortunately.
@ForgeCoreGaming yep, same here! Ah well, let's hope once they launch 1.0 they change the monetization model to skins and customization more than ships, so theat they can backtrack and do a pass for all ships to bring them to the same standard of design and functionality, keeping balance a priority.
@@StillnessInMotion88 I could see that happening :) I hope they'd improve skins though. Liveries are cool and all (sometimes), but I'd like to see some actual skins coming out.
@ForgeCoreGaming even better, they should sell some templates as well, which we can customize. So they can sell finishes, materials (rust, scorch marks, gun holes, chrome or matt metals..) and let us overlap them to customize ships even further.
My biggest problem with the Redeemer change, you don't have enough power. As in for the power management you have all those shield generators but not enough to run laser and have decent power into shields and some into speed. Full power to shields takes everything from guns and speed to max it out.
I'd have to agree - hopefully they give us a power supply option that would mitigate the "compromise" we currently have to make. I generally pull everything away from engines to max out guns & put the remainder to shield. It seems they're trying to nudge us towards ballistics, but ballistics aren't in a great spot at the moment.
I think CIG missed an opportunity to encourage multi crew game play with the Redeemer. If they’d increased the size 3 turrets to size 4, they would’ve made those seats more appealing. I might even be willing to downsize the pilot weapons to further that goal.
Something we haven't seen yet is real significant shield variety. We have a very basic variety now but it's hardly very indepth with it just being some clearly better shields over others. There could be a very good variety to Redeemer builds featuring different shield loadouts to either get really high raw shield strength, or really quick recharge, to help cater to the kind of targets you're looking to engage.
mmm... I could get behind that kind of customization - or even if they could incorporate a higher chance of burnout on a component if it performs at a higher level. Kinda like how a Ferrari isn't the most dependable daily driver -but they sure do put out some numbers.
I'm glad that you're not just lazily cooking up someone else's opinion here. I actually got the Redeemer as soon as I had the feel it's no longer just a 'mindless' flying bunker with guns.
It needs a buff to ammo capacity and hull hp but other than that it's in a pretty decent spot. I might actually start using it since I've been waiting for a more nimble gunship but it'll have to contend with my gladiator
Personally, I just think they went a little too far. For instance, if they had left the top turret only as dual size 5 and reduced the bottom to the dual size 4, that would make more sense to me. Having come just on the heels of so many ships getting up-gunned with the changes to gimbals, it just seems like too much.
@@KitfoxNinja I could see that. Mostly said Top turret because it has the better view. However even by your reasoning I could see value in having the smaller turret on the bottom supporting drop ship function vs ground targets while the top turret provides air defense vs the much heavier shielded ships.
@@stoneguardTrue true I could see it being workable either direction. This sparked a lot of fun talks in my group last night. I think the deemer is in a good space though ultimately. I prefer the much better mobility and getting in places it needs to be vs being a near mobile turret turtle it was before. Overall I just am happy they aren't afraid to adjust things and continue to fine tune ships as we move along the timeline!
First off: nice video, well done and I appreciate you not only speaking about the subject matter but showing it in an accurate light as well. Secondly: I agree, though I am not in love with any nerfs I see the value in what has been done with the Redeemer. And think its a good starting point. With upgrades to the ships power, shielding, and the addition of armor, I think we will eventually see the ship reach its pinnacle of success.
First off, thank you for the compliments & I appreciate you watching. Second... I think you're right on the money with this just being a "starting point". We'll get there!!
Would love to see a Bounty Hunting variant and a medivac variant. Replace the drop seats with holding calls and med beds respectively. Should also say I can't say I prefer the way it is now, but I can't say it's awful. It's just not the top of the pack anymore and sits where it probably should have from the get go. But I'm a sucker for combat ships with livable interiors.
Same... on all accounts... I still really enjoy it & use it often... it's just significantly more fragile. But - this likely isn't the last adjustment it'll get. The game & balance is a dynamic moving target.
I understand that the Redeemer in the old state was too much of a brick in more ways than one. Think CIG went a bit more heavy handed on this one than needed. Really happy with the maneuverability changes and would gladly trade either the weapon change or the shield change for it. Biggest issue I see, and this is a problem currently with most multi-crew ships in game, is that they scale very poorly vs single man ships. The redeemer now has less DPS with a 5 man crew than an 2 F7As. I get that the S5s probably hit a bit too large for it, especially with the armor changes coming in the game. Wish they had changed them to quad S4 mounts though instead duals. Means you are 1/3 the Hammerhead's DPS for 1/2 the crew in a smaller, albiet less tanky, package.
Great review, stop hating guys. It you spent too much you need to deal with that. Every ship will be obtainable in game. I flew redeemers for a long time and I think it's great. Get a buddy. Put him up top. 2 buddies on the 4's lasers if long fights. And I'm good
It's a vanguard with 2 scu and significantly more shields. I liked the old redeemer I like the vanguard no issues for me. Also since the front turret is automatically slaved to the pilot your engineer can swap between manning the front turret and doing engineer work.
@@ForgeCoreGaming I think a lot of worries about time to kill are kinda pointless untill we get engineering and armor balancing. does the ship feel good to fly or have an internal feature that is beneficial you your personal gameplay. People put way to much value into the combat effectiveness of ships right now.
@addgamer4545 That's the sad thing about this community. Really, a lot of communities. Almost everyone just chases after numbers and meta's. Yes you could just bring 2 F7A's to have a but more firepower with two people than three. But no one ever considers how are you going to bring those F7A's? They don't have the fuel to stay out. They need an anchor be it a base or carrier to refuel and carry them. When if you need to eat/drink and can't make it to a station while you are on a planet with no breathable air so you will die if you take your helmet off. There are things that have huge benefits over just bringing raw numbers to a fight. Sadly. So many don't see those or just refuses.
@@Starrshade These are good points - and I always consider them when I'm walking up to my ASOP terminal. I'd glady take a "lower performer" when it comes to firepower if it means my QoL goes up by quite a bit while playing.
@@ForgeCoreGaming Facts! I got the Redeemer as a loaner for the Paladin. Absolutely love the Redeemer. I'll be getting one in my personal collection as soon as I can.
I do agree with the nerf on the weapons but i don't think the nerf on the shield was required. In the lore the redeemer is mainly known for his extremely sturdy shields with his 4 large shield emitters outside and for his boost ability due to his experimental v-shape engine. The ship was never meant to have to have a good top speed, nor have good scanner or cargo capability. But to tank and dodge during prolonged fights. The problem currently is the fact that the redeemer is far too fragile proportionally to the number of crew inside. And i don't know if it is intentionnal or a bug, but right now the amount of shield is divided by four like and have 4 face-shields like size 3 shields. It make each faces really fragile and they can be down really fast. The other bad point is the cost to power the 6 size 2 shields, 24 power on 30 to fully power the shield is far too high. I think the redeemer should get back his size 3 shield and even get a third one (if they don't buff the tankiness of the hull). With that change choosing to go full power into shield would be more adaptative and dynamic during the fight. (for example, full power to the 3 shields at the start, then only one or two shields only during the fight and if you want to leave the fight you go full shield and cut the power to weapon and auxilliary) The other option i had was to up the shields to 8 shields size 2 but divide the power consumption by 4 on the redeemer only and let the 4 quadrant system. (i've checked, 8 size 2 are small enough to replace the 2 size 3 in their component slots). This would still let the redeemer kinda fragile but a little bit less and with more energy to attributes in other systems. (and maybe buff stlightly the boost again)
The ship went from a flying tank with massive guns. To a more agile but still threatening gunship. I think only 6 size 2 feels so drastically different. I think that a single size 3 would have been better.
@ForgeCoreGaming i saw a video showing a ship size comparison too. It put the redeemer side by side next to a hammerhead and said both ships have the same shields... so either the HH has not enough or the redeemer had too much. I still think the hammerhead head should have 3 size 3s 😆
@@ForgeCoreGaming i think alot of the issues with balancing is the lack of armor and components that have drastic variety. Personally I think rather than physicality adding armor and complicating things they just need to make a damage increase/decrease based on the tier of the weapon vs the tier of the ship size/armor rating. That would solve the light fighter problem and make it so big ships have a good chance against a small group of light fighters.
"there should never be one answer to every problem" has anyone thought that about Light fighters? or the A2? i think nerfing the shields was a very bad call, like everything else, no one is allowed to shrug off LF meta and force LF's to pick their engagements, youre right there should be counters to everything and there should be ships LFs just cannot beat, to make that rock-paper-scissors a reality, instead of an obstacle they need a wall. then we might see more ship variance and role distribution.
The changes are a positive for the pilot, but it is a net nerf for everything else especially turret gunners. I understand the reason why CIG changed the ship the way it is, they want it to be an anti-ship gunship but its current iteration fails at that given its massive nerfs to shielding & hull HP and firepower. I should also mention that the Redeemer is in fact barely more agile than the constellation and corsair, the strong maneuvering thrusters that allow you to swap direction quickly is deluding people into thinking this ship is just as agile as a Vanguard. When in reality it is far from that. This ship has a way to go before I think its in a good position. As a pilot of the Redeemer yes it feels good to fly now, but I care more about my turret gunners cause thats the main source of my firepower, and for them? They do not like the changes.
@@ogelNnif-lx1jf Oh I have a good job already - I'm doing this with different intentions: make great content about a game I REALLY love to play and have been waiting on for a decade. Nothing scratches the itch quite like Star Citizen.
nah dude, look at 7:14 those size four guns need to be reverted to size 5. I bought this ship bc it literally says "Oversized Weapons" in the ship brochure. everything else sure, but the manned turrets, need to be S5. we just need more people to backlash like the galaxy. size 4 is not overpowered imo. thank you for bringing light on this subject
Yeah CIG's marketing department has some explaining to do. These aren't oversized at all.... :( Thanks for watching and leaving a comment. Hope I earned your sub! See you in the verse!
A funny crewed Redeemer is a nightmare for any small and medium ships. It’s still a great ship. I never wanted one because of how brick like it used to be. I would like one now.
Here's the thing though, is it worth crewing. If you pit you and 2 gunners against 3 fighters, do you get smoked? Or is there a possibility that you come out on top. That's what's gonna make this either DOA, or an ok change.
I think it comes out on top in that scenario. The benefit of gunners is that they can be more situational aware than the pilot in certain spots of the ship. Pilots have blindspots and have to watch shield levels, altitude (when in atmo), objects to avoid (when in asteroid fields), incoming missiles, etc. This goes for all parties in your proposed scenario. So the fighter pilots have their plate full as well. Pile on having to contend with gunners that are only focused on them.. I think the Redeemer wins.
This video is cringe. It treats the subject as if immeasurable care, skill and artistry has gone into the thought process... instead of a bunch of blue-hairs making arbitrary choices working from home in Manchester. You're LARPing a development process that hasn't existed since the mid 2000s.
here is a problem, the current turn it had at release, then it was nerfed and now they just returning it to old turnrate. its not a buff. its a nerf since they nerfed guns and shields.
Fyi the Shield change is 200k to 36k. Furthermore it now has the hull hp of a C1... The main issue with the nerf is that the Redeemer was 330 usd - let that sink in, pricier than a starlancer or connie... it's meant to be a step above the constellations, AND a dedicated gunship for pure combat (hence the heavy shields and s5 guns...) the sad truth is cig forgot this fact for whatever reason.... Even sadder is that now there is NO point crewing a redeemer when it has less firepower than a connie and needs 3 players. There is no point unless it has something special (s5 guns?) doubly so when you can have 3 arrows or f8's instead. The Redeemer should not have been nerfed that hard at all. If anything they should have restored it's initial agility which was nerfed to HH stats BTW, which was totally insane also... Once again CIG don't play the game they produce.
With the shield numbers, I was talking strictly 3.24.2 component values. I agree it should not have been nerfed quite as bad. I think there's a middle ground somewhere that would have been appropriate!
@@ForgeCoreGaming Yep, that would have been a shield nerf to say 1 s3 instead of 2 whilst keeping its agility and firepower intact. Cool shots tho, keep it up, wish you luck
Picked up a redeemer, replaced my harbinger with it. I agree, the flight characteristics feel good, nimble. The weapons for the pilot are a bit worse than the harbinger, but I'm planning to crew it with at least 2 more for the turrets so I'm willing to eat that loss.
I would also agree, the shield nerf was warranted. Shields pre nerf were 200k, yet the weapon output was in the realm of a harbinger, that only had roughly 28k-30k hp. For context, the connie Andromeda pre nerf had 100k shields and nearly double the dmg output of the redeemer. The redeemer was in a weird place between being a heavy fighter, based on dmg, yet a corvette class ship on the defenses. It needed to be defined as to what class it actually is.
@@ForgeCoreGaming tbh, I didn't fly the old redeemer. As a primarily solo player during my early time in SC, I chose the harbinger for my mrt and below missions, and took the connie Andromeda for my hrt and any missions I needed cargo space for. The dps for pilot only weapons is better than the redeemer on both ships. However, and people have missed this heavily, the harbinger shields were brutally eviscerated as well. In fact, now that shields are actually adjusting properly, everything across the board was impacted negatively. Connie went from 100k to 56k. Harbinger from roughly 28k-30k to 10k. The redeemer was the biggest and so makes the most noise, but almost all ships got hit. Since the redeemer now has 3x shields than the harbinger, and I have some people to crew it, it now makes more sense to fly. The dps isn't that far behind a harbinger.
Ngl i like the redeemer more then before. Its like a super heavy fighter right now. It was way to busted before but now it flies so well. Def a great addition to any convoy mission together with the hammerhead. And as a solo pilot its great for bounty hunting too now. I actually might pledge for one. So far i got mine ingame.
@@CptFugu sorry but i wont take you serious. u cant even say a single line about what made it worse for pvp instead you just cry about it. get better arguments. i also love it for PVP atm. its so manuverable that it can easily delete any kind of fighter. and the turrets are moving faster too if i notice it right. so its not just a plain nerf they buffed other aspects to make it fit its role better.
@@eziiii3536 I posted about that somewhere else in this video. Look it up. Better yet, visit spectrum. The turrets were the first nerf after the ship's launch. If anything they've been somewhat restored. As for PvP, you can't really be serious. Either that, or you've been fighting noobs.
Thank you for trying to bring a balanced perspective to this topic. I think the CIG 'balancing team' (idk their official name) will have their hands full with making sure that every ship, current and future, will perform according to their intended design, especially when multi-crew/engineering and component upgrades are brought to full realization. Personally, I will try (and occasionally fail) not to get too attached to one ship but to the game play I want, and will select the right ship when we get closer to 1.0. Melting and CCU should make that sufficiently easy.
You are very welcome! And thank you for watching. There certainly will be more changes to come - I know there are likely some ships that I'll just never get rid of & it's ok to have favorites! Hope I earned your sub. Have a great weekend
It's a gunship and never should be agile like a heavy fighter. The whole POINT was for the pilot to fly the ship in a way to keep his turret gunners on target and deal with positioning the craft properly for attack runs or to dodge obstacles or to extend away. As to balance, well I'm the odd man out here. I don't want a game full of things that all do the same thing and where everything has a fair chance. Why? Because I fully believe there should be times when you're out bashing around and someone shows up in something that makes everyone pucker. It's all fun and single seater games until a proper gunship shows up and ruins your fun. I say this, because people have this image of the single seat fighter being able to do literally anything and that's just not balanced, sorry. They have a role sure, mostly it's to go out and die and try to do as much damage as they can before they get shot down. They CAN be very powerful......in a fleet, when there's bunches of them to combine their weight of fire. But the balance here are gunships and antifighter screen ships.....like the redeemer, or, like it was. Redeemer was a threat and taken very seriously by anyone savvy in a fighter. They treated it differently because it posed a VERY serious threat to them. Now? ....meh And that's even before I get into the shields.....what the actual hell. The only reason this was done was to simply make redeemer less tanky....so, less gunship-like. Which is the typical bag of CiG mixed signals and confusion. They simply don't know what they want to do with the gunship class. This kind adjustment would be like giving hammerhead twenty size one shields and moving turrets to all size threes.....just....WHY? TTK is too long in the game. Sorry but drama can eat one. Chris has said over and over he wants an experience to mimic the kind of action we see in things like starwars or WWII dogfights. Well, ok....someone needs to sit Mr. Roberts down to watch those things again because in both of them, dogfighting is full of boom and zoom and whoever gets a firing solution first, WINS. Know all the times in SW when a ship takes hits and the crew is like "whew that was close but I think I'm ok" or "she'll hold together"....ya, its because they took a glancing blow and that alone was damaging to the ship causing them to have to do emergency rerouting or patch jobs etc.....a glancing shot! Deathstar, Vader wiped the floor with the xwings with just a burst. Endore invasion, both sides had fighters being knocked out of space with just few hits or even one solid hit. WWII? Forget about it, maneuver into position, guns guns, other guy is toast. There are kinds of drama. Getting into a big furball and kicking butt all the while risking instant boom or near instant boom and trusting your skills to keep you alive. Or circle strafing while shooting marshmallows at each other until one ship explodes from sheer boredom.....guess which one we have now? And you know what, ok I could even let ALL this slide if they'd just not have put in capacitors. Oh but we can't have weapons that can cycle all the time, sounds dumb to me but ok, how about you get those coolers working like they should? Make coolers and heat function properly and it literally solves the issue and replaces capacitors. Want to shoot the energy guns non stop? Ok, but your heat builds up faster and may start to shut down random systems or limit available power while the cooler goes to work. Taking hits and the shields have to constantly recharge WHILE you're shooting those energy weapons? Hope you upgraded those coolers to top tier otherwise you're boned.......but instead we get hamfisted capacitors, yay? Sorry, it's this kind of derpy decision making that makes me fearful of the end result. More and more this game has drifted away from the awesome thing CR promised and is turning into a pretty normal game with pretty visuals and some cool party tricks....and that's sad. I'm pretty passionate about the project and want to play it for at least a decade, my new wow.....but man, at every step CiG push me further away and chip away at my positive spirit for it. I get not everyone wants DCS in space but there's no reason we can't have a good mix. And hamstringing things like this is NOT the good mix. Redeemer will probably become another hangar queen for me, alongside the MISC.....and that's just wrong.
This ship, and the dream of taking out frigates with my dad and brother was the whole reason i got into SC. It was sold as one of the few ships in its class to punch up, and now its not. Its more suited to bounty hunting, but instead of holding cells its has useless drop seats
I do agree with the shield nerfs to a degree. We'll see how durable it is once it relatively low hull HP is rendered moot with maelstrom. But as it stands a more than 70% reduction in shield capacity is overhanded
It was my favorite and most used ship but the nerf was massive! I could have lived with the downsize in guns. I would agree it was OP in that area but the nerf to both guns and shields has pushed it into my melt or upgrade list for this up coming IAE. We already have nimble fighters now the Redeemer is more like a bad fighter and not a gun ship. F'ck the Redeemer.
Not sure why, but I was never really into the Redeemer... The looks, the Interior design, the weapon layout... Then again, I like ships that work well solo as well. I think MOST ships in SC should work for Single Player. I love Multiplayer and it's the king of having fun in the game, BUT life gets in the way and the proper corp-play sessions are highly numbered! Even more so if you need a bare minimum of an hour to even get started...
I am with you in that I will likely spend the majority of the time flying solo... it's just my style. At the same time I don't think I should stand a chance against anything that is crewed by 2 or more people (and is combat focused). And for that reason I am glad the Corsair got 'nerfed', a large ship like that should not be that soloable.
I think all the changes are fine except Size 5 guns being nerfed....like ehat was the reason for coni getting 4 soze 5s? No one complained when it had 2 size 5 and 2 size 4. Didnt see anyone overly concerned that the redeemer had size 5s just more ppl saying it is too heavily shielded for a ship of it size which I would agreed. Imo up size the guns back to size 5 and give it more shield hp to 75k. Adjust maneuverability as needed for balance.
Question. For the gun size reduction they increased the tower speed so its even better for its role to destroy light fighters right? I see that as a total win. For bigger fighters we have the hammerhead. Now it makes sense to have a hammerhead and a redeemer in your convoy.
I have to disagree. A good part of your assessment is based on the wrong contest: PvE and Solo. It is a multiplayer ship in a game where PvP is basically guaranteed. In a PvP game ships need to be balanced for PvP encounters. Right now, the Redeemer is not worth crewing because the damage output and protection are too low to justify packing 4 to 5 crewmen in there vs having 4 to 5 people flying their individual ships. Even with 3 people onboard the Redeemer can be cut down by a single fighter. Not only that, it is more expensive (by about $100.00!), has higher crew requirements, lower protection, and lower firepower than similar ships such as the Connie and the Corsair. Both ships that currently carry 4 S5 guns and 1 S3 shield, by the way. When you put this ship in a balanced encounter with 3 players in medium fighters, vs 3 players in the Redeemer, the Redeemer is totally outclassed and it is basically defenseless. The range of the S4 guns is too short, and the damage output too low to effect any sort of control over the battle. She ship is still too slow and sluggish to do any sort of pursuit or even contest the initiative. And the protection is too to keep it in the fight long enough to cause anything more than minimal attrition to the other team. I think they could've taken one S3 shield and that would've been enough. But they went too far and gave too little so, as the ship is right now, it is not worth the money or the time. To add insult to injury, the Galaxy came out at the same price (non-warbond) with pretty much the same specs the redeemer had. So people who bought the Redeemer early or late will have to either, get stuck with a dud, or put more money on the game. Really classy from CIG.
Honestly the optic is destroyed my taking it down to S4 instead of S5 guns, and I completely get the shielding, thats fine, but damn, don't take the guns.... With the manueverability, yeah, it was sluggish, but I liked it anyway. I dislike the nerf, exclusively cause of the Guns. I'll likely be taking it out of my fleet with a bleeding heart if they don't give the guns back. ;(
The problem with the redeemer has always been the same classic problem with any multicrew ship. Why would you put two players in your gunner seats when those two players on two separate fighters can do much more?
Oh boy - you bring up a very valid point. I think this ship serves people who prefer multicrew. I know I've met people who don't like piloting their own ships. There are certainly others like that! But very valid point.
I think the main value of multicrew will kick in once the full economy develops and there's a lot more players of all skill levels present. Ships like the Hornet Mk 2 are very strong with skilled pilots, but if you have a ton of novice and industrial focused players in your org it'll make more sense to have one turreting a Scorpius for a skilled pilot than buying two Hornets only to have one crash and burn early in the fight.
@@davidbigboutay782 See, that's a very likely case. I know my org has several players that mostly prefer fps content in SC... or we have cargo haulers...etc. I can't wait for professions to be more fleshed out.
All good points, I still love my redeemer but It’s certainly does justify its $330 cost anymore… Nerfing its firepower is one thing but it was always supposed to be a very hard ship to kill… it certainly not that anymore.
i very much love the new redeemer, but i want them to make a few changes, i honestly think that the manned turrets could be quad s4 guns. even if it’s just the top turret that gets that. the other option would be making the front remote turret s4 guns and remove the “turret” aspect of it, and making the manned turrets remote using the seats behind the pilot. either way i think it would help the ship out quite a bit.
I always kind had the impression the newer version of the redeemer, was to fill a kind of a support roll, akin to like a Aapache helo, support for troops on the ground. Or in numbers as a support craft for larger vessels, not something that should be specificaly religated to fighter vs fighter comparison. I could use ambush tactics in space with like asteroid fields, and the bigger guns allowed that. WIth a full crew requirement, you could have as many connie andromeda's, sure you'll probably tear up 1 of them, mean while each turret is gonna be in a deficit shooting at the other 2. Not to mention the connies huge missile payload and snubcraft. I think CIG is losing their ability of classifying craft, and perhaps marketing keeps nudging them to do this and that for the extra buck on sales. I think it definatly needed the agility boost, and shields were definatly over the top, but it'd been more in line to nerf its scm speed, and then if needed with MM mode, give it a cruising speed with other systems on idle for getting from point A to point B.
I really like the redeemer and was intending to buy one. Id flown it several times before and it was clunky but felt like a tank. After the nerfs i have no intention of picking one up. I think the nerfs were too harsh. Personally, i think the top turret should go back to size 5 guns and they should double its shield capacity back to somewhere around 70k at least. Keep the flight model changes as is. I think that would be a good middle ground for it. However, they need to fix the power issues. All of these changes are moot if the power problems stay the same.
As usual people cry without even trying or understanding game balance. The man here has tested and made a compelling argument yet people complain and cry they nerfed their op ship. Go take a look on hangar link how goddaman tiny the Deemer is compared to other ships that carry 2 s3 shields. Its manoeuvrability was garbage because it was the only balance tool that they had to try and bring in line a ship that small with tremendous shields and 4 s5 guns on basically 360 turrets. Its stats now are more in line with its ship class, still very strong, especially crewed (as it should be), but not Hammerhead level with half the crew requirements and 1/4 of the cross section. And man if I hear another “they nerfed the redeemer so they could sell the TAC” imma lose it. A ship 3 times the size, with double the crew requirements, probably shitty manouverablity and 2 s5 turrets that shoot BROADSIDES and can’t even shoot forward, nor the same target is nowhere near a Redeemer replacement. People need to stop buying ships off of stats and understand that money spent are towards the development of their dream game, not to buy your new p2w toy. Alpha is the place to figure out features and game balance, stuff will change. That’s why they allow you to melt your pledges and buy whatever else you please. No purchase is final, no harm, no malicious plot. I’ve never played a game where I could buy whatever and then change when I didn’t want it anymore.
Let her cook! 🍳 I welcome the debate though, and it's helpful to see the insight of others as to how they would make adjustments. The Redeemer is still my favorite daily driver - probably more so since the update. You make a lot of great points that are aligned with what I was thinking. Thanks for commenting, and I hope I earned your sub!
@@ForgeCoreGaming Debate is good if the feedback provided is constructive, like the complaints to what they’ve with the Corsair. Rather than slaving the copilot to be a glorified button pusher either make 2 s5 on a real turret or just downsize the guns to s4. That is feedback. Throwing a fit and saying stuff like “I’ve lost faith in CIG”, “I won’t be playing anymore after what they’ve done with my Redeemer” ain’t feedback. It’s childish behaviour.
Best Redemmer narrative! I instant follow! Really glad that my redeemer is not dead, but have another purpose! And still in the game 👌 Now I know I will keep it for sure
I'll have to agree to disagree. Me and my friends flew the Redeemer almost regularly. It very much felt like a beast when you got the drop on enemies but if you got into a turn fight, or a fight that required speed, the only thing saving you was its shields. I'm 90% sure the only reason why it got nerfed was to make the Starlancer TAC more appealing. It DOES fly nicer now than it did before, but it very much feels it lost almost all its bite and is much closer to being a glass cannon...well maybe a glass musket as it not longer has the firepower to be considered a cannon. I think the Hammerhead just needed a small buff to shields to make the power dynamic between the two more equal. Plus the Hammerhead was more meant to take on groups of lighter fighters and the Redeemer was meant to take on slow sturdy targets, basically a mini-Perseus, which was how it was used. I think the Redeemer got nerfed WAY to hard and received almost nothing in return.
honestly, I don't like that ship, I think it's ugly and estheticaly doesn't match Aegis, especially these scissor wings BUT, I have to admit, being in and organisation that will basicaly be space truckers with their own intern security department, that this ship has A LOT of potential in defense of a convoy but the beds and the seats should be reverted, jumpseats on the first level and beds on the second
@@ForgeCoreGaming right ? it make more sense, why the "marines" you transport have to use a ladder and THEN be able to exit your ship ? it make no real sense
Honestly this ship has no purpose anymore in my fleet. I'm waiting for CIG to come to their senses on some of the recent changes but I'll be dead before that happens. They murdered my Deemer and my Corsair. The agility of this ship has always been poor and made no sense. If anything this ship should be a fast attack dropship.Big engines for straightline speed, big guns to hit the target zone hard before entry, just enough shields to survive a hot LZ, and then a quick drop off of soldiers from seats next to the ramp. Instead we get this $330 paper weight that the money and crew would have been more wisely spent on a Scorpious and Gladius.
Bad video, you had an opinion on combat performance and it failed against all opposition, you mentioned it would be different with a turret gunner (fun fact it doesnt help at all) and you never tested it and still said you think its in a good place. If you did some actual testing, it is a very bad ship right now. Cig made a balance change that might have come from a good place as the redeemer should not have been so tanky, but they nerfed offense and defense at the same time by far too much rather than a minor change and the result was a ship that is never worth bringing because its too fragile to bring other players and without other players it lacks firepower too much.
@DakkaDakka12 The premise of the test was established ahead of time. Finding several people to crew a redeemer in arena commander sometimes isn't possible. It isn't feasible to put a video on hold for the sake of "doing all the tests". Deductions can be made. Furthermore, just because it lost against smaller/faster ships doesn't mean it's in a bad place. It just indicates that in that specific set of circumstances, it couldn't contend. There are all sorts of scenarios that I COULD have tested... but I chose not to. I appreciate the feedback - my opinion stands as it comes from a specific position. That position is that I see a direction that I believe CIG is going with this (and other ships). I doubt this is the last stage of adjustments - there will be plenty more. Games rebalance even after they full launch, and this is just in Alpha. But again - thanks for the feedback.
CIG really wants me to stop backing this game after over a decade. BMM religated to the postponed graveyard, Galaxy descoped features, Redeemer nerfed into a medium fighter.
Hmmm.. if you fly it solo, yeah I could see it right on par with a heavy fighter like the vanguard series of ships. It definitely isn't quick or nimble enough to be compared to a medium fighter though 🤔. Honestly, I'm looking at the upcoming Mirai Guardian to be a viable solo daily driver. But I see your point - it's hard to keep throwing money at the game when "what you buy" isn't "what you get" in the long haul. Honestly, if they allowed store credit to be applied to warbonds I think their changes would be more well received.
@ you mean it was not shown in the previews. I have a Galaxy, but I prefer to have the Perseus in game tbh. The redeemer was nerfed weapons wise, but has better maneuverability. It is still a great ship. And this will happen across the board. I own it too
@@fmartingorb don't get me wrong I'm about $3k into funding over 11 years. I love the dream but I'm getting exhausted. I took a year off and came back to this mess, I guess I'll wait until next year to find out if PU is stable.
@ No, you’re absolutely right, content creators who’s entire contribution is to talk over the video should be mispronouncing words like illiterate tictoc-brains, who’ve never read a fucking book in their lives. Maybe throw in a speech impediment and some lazy mumbling, and you’ve got a prime candidate for a TH-cam channel.
It's in a really bad place regarding power management though. Not enough capacitors to keep weapons at 100% ammo capacity if you use an energy loadout, not enough coolers to meet minimum cooling requirements, not enough power plants to keep most things powered. Having multiple smaller shield generators is actually really bad for power consumption and EM signature vs having fewer bigger shields. You basically have to dump boost to power everything else.
The absolute worst part of the redeemer for me though is the asinine layout of the interior. Why are the dropseats on the TOP floor and the crew quarters on the BOTTOM? The drop seats need to be close to the exit and the crew quarters need to be close to the...... crew.
Lol A) You make some valid points here. I only lol'd because I agree with the layout comment wholeheartedly. B) Yeah - as someone else commented, the power supply issue is hugely apparent at the moment. Hopefully they do some tuning there to make full energy weapons viable while still leaving some boost for us to use. I REALLY hope they're not trying to force us into using ballistics. I don't like the idea of having to resupply often.. and I HATE the idea of running out of ammo in the middle of battle. This is especially the case because - despite its maneuverability buff, you're not going to flat outrun most things out there. Thanks for watching & leaving a comment.
Because the redeemer is a gun ship not drop ship, so they forced the lay out. Though I remember some talks about the bottom being modular?
The retaliator suffers from the same problem of being given 6 size 2 shield and only 2 power plants, not to mention the 5 turrets that need power, several times I’ve dropped out of qt mode and lost power to engines because everything else used all of it
@@cjak4958 Yeah, the power plant to shields thing is a serious issue right now. I wouldn't be surprised if adjustments came in some patches in the next year.
For only the 2nd video on your channel, you presented it like a veteran reviewer. Informative well-spoken and edited. subbed keep it up.
Hey I appreciate that! It took a surprisingly long time to get it to where I was ok with publishing it. I've been working to get more comfortable by doing short form content too. Thanks very much for the sub.
Good video and makes some decent points. Cig said that the redeemer was to strong for it size and needed a rebalance as they called it. But sadly with the new anvil paladin announced witch is pretty much the old redeemer in a anvil coating it till feels bad all the sudden its oo for this size ship to be that strong. And tbh i feel that the redemer now needs a new rebalance to put it in its fair place again.
I agree.. its hard to present an opinion on anything since information changes so rapidly
It’s a dedicated military gunship that has less hull hp than the C1 Spirit. It still doesn’t make sense.
All fair points - I would NOT argue if they decided to give it some more shield or hull hp
So what? Hull HP isn't everything.
Hey man I’ve only watched 2 of your videos! But I am so impressed! You speak well and I love your videos so far! Keep up the good work!
Well thank you for watching & commenting. I won't let you down!
The Size 3 shield was also cut in strength. Further, the Size 2 shield is a bubble shield, where the size 3 shield numbers have to be divided by 4.
Man they really can't decide whether to make a size 2 a bubble shield or a 2 part shield, at one point they were doing both depending on the ship.
@plmokm33 right now, Size 2 is a bubble, though in a recent build, on the Redeemer only, it was quadrant.
Body HP: 45 000 -> 17 000(-62%)
I missed that bit of the nerf - apparently I was stuck on everything else - that is a huge drop. We gotta make some noise to get some of this reversed.
great video, only just discovered you, subbed. love the structure and that the length is not too long or the narrative overly rambling. and especially that you start with manoeuvrability here, I also think this is the crucial change in this case.
Thank you for watching/commenting/subbing! It all helps a lot - and thanks for the feedback :) I'll try to keep these types of videos short & sweet
Ok so about the firepower loss of the 4 s5 to 4s4. right now a s5 gun is closer to 150% of the dps of a s4, meaning 2 s4 >1 s5 so its lost firepower is closer to the combined total of 2 s4 guns.
Heyyyy it isn't as bad as I thought! Thanks for the update.
I just started star citizen a couple days ago, I really like looking into new ship videos like this. Subbed for more.
Thanks for the sub & welcome to the verse!
I mostly liked your video but thought your whole section about solo pilot PVP was incredibly poor. If you had of repeated the tests with a gunner then it would have been a good test.
You also didn't bother to look up the s4 to s5 weapon stats so don't know if what you said was misleading and you didn't mention that s3 shields were nerfed.
That aside, I liked the topic, your editing and music was great. Your speech and sounds quality was great and overall I like how you presented your perspective. Apologies for being negative, this was overall good stuff.
great storytelling, Instant sub, I would mix the epic music a little quieter while you are talking though, particularly around 6:50
Roger that - there seems to be a discrepancy between the video processing software I use & the final product. I watched/exported/rerendered the video at least 4 times before publishing - but now I have a better idea about where my volume settings should be! Thanks for the sub!
Would love to see a Medivac version of the Redeemer. RIP out the drop seats up top and replace with crew beds. Downstairs would be the med bed where the old crew bunks were. The boost to manoeuvrability makes this ship so much more fun and appealing now.
lol that would make it one of the most valuable ships in the game in my opinion.
@ I also harbour the same design for the Anvil Valk. RIP out the forward left and right troop seats and replace with 2 x med beds. Use the hangar for a vehicle to go and recover the battlefield wounded.
Ngl thats a dope idea! I doubt that will ever see the light of the day tho 😅
@@eziiii3536 yeah sadly I think you’re right but it’s a game that appeals to our dreams and I like the art of the possible and theory crafting side of this game a lot 😊
I think this ship type calls for variants and/or modules, just compare with the Vanguard. It's even the same manufacturer.
i understand your POV regarding the redeemer's place and balance in the verse. But let me put it simply. CIG basically is scamming us all by just selling us ships that state this and that then in the end turning full 180 and saying its going to be this after receiving their CASH and money from us. EXAMPLE;
You design and sell the Ares Ion/Inferno ships. You specifically designed it with a S7 gun. Then nerf it to a S6 gun. What does that tell u? was it a design flaw misconception? or was it a marketing scam that gets u to buy the ship only to not give what u bought it and advertised it for after receiving the money. That is basically scamming people for their money. Its what CIG does and u approve of them for balancing it. This is not how u nerf or buff ships in regards to designing ship or a game. They did it wrong, a nerf is something that doesn't change the fundamental design but tweak the numbers and handling. So your opinion is totally ur opinion and mine is mine but for this video i'd say i'd disagree with your pov. Thanks for reading too :)
If they leave the flight alone and give it a shield bump, I think it would be a great close support escort.
What would be even more crazy is if the turrets were automated and tracked what you locked on too😂
It would be fire.
AI blades are coming soon(TM)!
@ForgeCoreGaming I probably won't be alive by then.
One can dream, though 😆
@@briangueringer3673 We're rootin for ya!
It went from a dropship gunship to just a ship
THe problem is to many multicrew ships are to strong used solo.
CiG has to start balancing somewhere and we will see with engineering and armor see some other important parts for that coming online.
I think the downsizing of weapons is a important part of it but should maybe come when engineering and armor is in.
Thanks for the comment.. and yup! Dedicated multicrew ships really shouldn't be super strong when they aren't (at least) partially crewed. That's why I think this is a step in the right direction.
Yes it did
i love the change, the s4 guns have much better ammo speeds vs s5, so with gunners it works vs a wider range of targets i feel.
Like I said - it seems to be in a pretty good spot
I remember when the redeemer was stuck in the hangar during the early days, everyone thought it was weird then too
Lol I love mine
Finally someone sees positivity in the nerf.
I see positivity in most things.. except traffic..
I will say the one thing i wanted to see was what the turn rate yaw rate and rotation rate were when you did your video. For a 2nd video good job.
I love the changes. I don’t need a meta ship. I want an interesting and fun ship and this is what they’ve made the redeemer
It’s no longer a mini hammerhead. That’s an area denial ship. The redeemer is the ultimate anti fighter ship because it can go after them. But that’s just it. It’s anti fighter. It’s not made to go after large ships
I absolutely love the Deemer, but I hated how lumberingly it flew. It was unwieldy to the point that it was useless. Did not try it now with the new stats, but the manoeuvrability tune finally makes it look usable. Too bad new ship sales keep nerfing military ships, would be fun if each ship went all out and was fully optimized by the military to be the best it possibly be to do the one thing it was meant to be, good in a military setting.
I loved it too. I always thought it would be a staple in my fleet. But I had to make some decisions recently.. so my daily driver is a Guardian. I melted the redeemer for something that filled a different role. New ships just tend to function better, unfortunately.
@ForgeCoreGaming yep, same here! Ah well, let's hope once they launch 1.0 they change the monetization model to skins and customization more than ships, so theat they can backtrack and do a pass for all ships to bring them to the same standard of design and functionality, keeping balance a priority.
@@StillnessInMotion88 I could see that happening :) I hope they'd improve skins though. Liveries are cool and all (sometimes), but I'd like to see some actual skins coming out.
@ForgeCoreGaming even better, they should sell some templates as well, which we can customize. So they can sell finishes, materials (rust, scorch marks, gun holes, chrome or matt metals..) and let us overlap them to customize ships even further.
@@StillnessInMotion88 That would be so cool. I'm gonna take a dash of hopium here.
My biggest problem with the Redeemer change, you don't have enough power. As in for the power management you have all those shield generators but not enough to run laser and have decent power into shields and some into speed. Full power to shields takes everything from guns and speed to max it out.
I'd have to agree - hopefully they give us a power supply option that would mitigate the "compromise" we currently have to make. I generally pull everything away from engines to max out guns & put the remainder to shield. It seems they're trying to nudge us towards ballistics, but ballistics aren't in a great spot at the moment.
The whole power thing is in early days. That has to be balanced.
I think CIG missed an opportunity to encourage multi crew game play with the Redeemer. If they’d increased the size 3 turrets to size 4, they would’ve made those seats more appealing. I might even be willing to downsize the pilot weapons to further that goal.
This has been one of my top 2 ships for a long time. Even now in it's neutered state. It still has a place.
It is still my #1 - though the Mirai Guardian might take its place here soon.
@ForgeCoreGaming yeah Andromeda is still my #1. It's how I fell in love with this game. But yeah I'm stoked for the guardian.
Something we haven't seen yet is real significant shield variety. We have a very basic variety now but it's hardly very indepth with it just being some clearly better shields over others. There could be a very good variety to Redeemer builds featuring different shield loadouts to either get really high raw shield strength, or really quick recharge, to help cater to the kind of targets you're looking to engage.
mmm... I could get behind that kind of customization - or even if they could incorporate a higher chance of burnout on a component if it performs at a higher level. Kinda like how a Ferrari isn't the most dependable daily driver -but they sure do put out some numbers.
ayo what the citizen doing on your lap at 5:11
lol it was a weird bug where a body just appeared randomly in front of me. Good catch!
I'm glad that you're not just lazily cooking up someone else's opinion here. I actually got the Redeemer as soon as I had the feel it's no longer just a 'mindless' flying bunker with guns.
I'm really enjoying mine, and I use it everyday. You should add me in game! Fenyks-VIi
Sorry Fenyks-VII
It needs a buff to ammo capacity and hull hp but other than that it's in a pretty decent spot. I might actually start using it since I've been waiting for a more nimble gunship but it'll have to contend with my gladiator
Very good presentation mate. subbed
I appreciate it! Where are you watching from?
@@ForgeCoreGaming New Zealand
Damn nice video man!
Thanks for this review.
Thanks for watching and the compliment! Hope I earned your sub
Personally, I just think they went a little too far. For instance, if they had left the top turret only as dual size 5 and reduced the bottom to the dual size 4, that would make more sense to me. Having come just on the heels of so many ships getting up-gunned with the changes to gimbals, it just seems like too much.
If anything it should be the opposite as a gunship traditionally fights ground targets and thus that's where the majority of the firepower should be.
@@KitfoxNinja I could see that. Mostly said Top turret because it has the better view. However even by your reasoning I could see value in having the smaller turret on the bottom supporting drop ship function vs ground targets while the top turret provides air defense vs the much heavier shielded ships.
@@stoneguardTrue true I could see it being workable either direction. This sparked a lot of fun talks in my group last night. I think the deemer is in a good space though ultimately. I prefer the much better mobility and getting in places it needs to be vs being a near mobile turret turtle it was before. Overall I just am happy they aren't afraid to adjust things and continue to fine tune ships as we move along the timeline!
First off: nice video, well done and I appreciate you not only speaking about the subject matter but showing it in an accurate light as well. Secondly: I agree, though I am not in love with any nerfs I see the value in what has been done with the Redeemer. And think its a good starting point. With upgrades to the ships power, shielding, and the addition of armor, I think we will eventually see the ship reach its pinnacle of success.
First off, thank you for the compliments & I appreciate you watching. Second... I think you're right on the money with this just being a "starting point". We'll get there!!
Would love to see a Bounty Hunting variant and a medivac variant. Replace the drop seats with holding calls and med beds respectively.
Should also say I can't say I prefer the way it is now, but I can't say it's awful. It's just not the top of the pack anymore and sits where it probably should have from the get go. But I'm a sucker for combat ships with livable interiors.
Same... on all accounts... I still really enjoy it & use it often... it's just significantly more fragile. But - this likely isn't the last adjustment it'll get. The game & balance is a dynamic moving target.
Thanks for test, great video.
Thanks for watching/commenting!
amazing shots, im thinking ill get one for myself
I recommend it!
I understand that the Redeemer in the old state was too much of a brick in more ways than one. Think CIG went a bit more heavy handed on this one than needed. Really happy with the maneuverability changes and would gladly trade either the weapon change or the shield change for it.
Biggest issue I see, and this is a problem currently with most multi-crew ships in game, is that they scale very poorly vs single man ships. The redeemer now has less DPS with a 5 man crew than an 2 F7As. I get that the S5s probably hit a bit too large for it, especially with the armor changes coming in the game. Wish they had changed them to quad S4 mounts though instead duals. Means you are 1/3 the Hammerhead's DPS for 1/2 the crew in a smaller, albiet less tanky, package.
Great review, stop hating guys. It you spent too much you need to deal with that. Every ship will be obtainable in game. I flew redeemers for a long time and I think it's great. Get a buddy. Put him up top. 2 buddies on the 4's lasers if long fights. And I'm good
It's a vanguard with 2 scu and significantly more shields. I liked the old redeemer I like the vanguard no issues for me. Also since the front turret is automatically slaved to the pilot your engineer can swap between manning the front turret and doing engineer work.
Yeah, that's essentially the feeling I get from it. I daily it like it were a heavy fighter.
@@ForgeCoreGaming I think a lot of worries about time to kill are kinda pointless untill we get engineering and armor balancing. does the ship feel good to fly or have an internal feature that is beneficial you your personal gameplay. People put way to much value into the combat effectiveness of ships right now.
@addgamer4545 That's the sad thing about this community. Really, a lot of communities. Almost everyone just chases after numbers and meta's. Yes you could just bring 2 F7A's to have a but more firepower with two people than three.
But no one ever considers how are you going to bring those F7A's? They don't have the fuel to stay out. They need an anchor be it a base or carrier to refuel and carry them. When if you need to eat/drink and can't make it to a station while you are on a planet with no breathable air so you will die if you take your helmet off. There are things that have huge benefits over just bringing raw numbers to a fight. Sadly. So many don't see those or just refuses.
@@Starrshade These are good points - and I always consider them when I'm walking up to my ASOP terminal. I'd glady take a "lower performer" when it comes to firepower if it means my QoL goes up by quite a bit while playing.
Great honest review.
Thanks!
Love this ship! Love the way it looks and the way it moves. Just a great ship, in my opinion.
It's a real blast tbh - just kinda sad that the MFD's are bugged.
@@ForgeCoreGaming Facts! I got the Redeemer as a loaner for the Paladin. Absolutely love the Redeemer. I'll be getting one in my personal collection as soon as I can.
I do agree with the nerf on the weapons but i don't think the nerf on the shield was required.
In the lore the redeemer is mainly known for his extremely sturdy shields with his 4 large shield emitters outside and for his boost ability due to his experimental v-shape engine.
The ship was never meant to have to have a good top speed, nor have good scanner or cargo capability. But to tank and dodge during prolonged fights.
The problem currently is the fact that the redeemer is far too fragile proportionally to the number of crew inside. And i don't know if it is intentionnal or a bug, but right now the amount of shield is divided by four like and have 4 face-shields like size 3 shields. It make each faces really fragile and they can be down really fast.
The other bad point is the cost to power the 6 size 2 shields, 24 power on 30 to fully power the shield is far too high. I think the redeemer should get back his size 3 shield and even get a third one (if they don't buff the tankiness of the hull). With that change choosing to go full power into shield would be more adaptative and dynamic during the fight.
(for example, full power to the 3 shields at the start, then only one or two shields only during the fight and if you want to leave the fight you go full shield and cut the power to weapon and auxilliary)
The other option i had was to up the shields to 8 shields size 2 but divide the power consumption by 4 on the redeemer only and let the 4 quadrant system. (i've checked, 8 size 2 are small enough to replace the 2 size 3 in their component slots). This would still let the redeemer kinda fragile but a little bit less and with more energy to attributes in other systems. (and maybe buff stlightly the boost again)
The ship went from a flying tank with massive guns. To a more agile but still threatening gunship. I think only 6 size 2 feels so drastically different. I think that a single size 3 would have been better.
I agree with you here - however, I think they wanted you to be able to swap out components. You can't swap out size 3 components... only up to size 2.
@ForgeCoreGaming i saw a video showing a ship size comparison too. It put the redeemer side by side next to a hammerhead and said both ships have the same shields... so either the HH has not enough or the redeemer had too much. I still think the hammerhead head should have 3 size 3s 😆
@@cookiebandit101 3s3 shields on a Hammerhead would be a little too nasty imo.
@@ForgeCoreGaming i think alot of the issues with balancing is the lack of armor and components that have drastic variety. Personally I think rather than physicality adding armor and complicating things they just need to make a damage increase/decrease based on the tier of the weapon vs the tier of the ship size/armor rating. That would solve the light fighter problem and make it so big ships have a good chance against a small group of light fighters.
A 5 man Redeemer was unstoppable.
Yep! And "unstoppable" really shouldn't be a thing
So what are the best guns solo versus high level Vaughn missions?
For the Redeemer? I prefer attritions - but they aren't working in the PU righ tnow
"there should never be one answer to every problem"
has anyone thought that about Light fighters? or the A2? i think nerfing the shields was a very bad call, like everything else, no one is allowed to shrug off LF meta and force LF's to pick their engagements, youre right there should be counters to everything and there should be ships LFs just cannot beat, to make that rock-paper-scissors a reality, instead of an obstacle they need a wall. then we might see more ship variance and role distribution.
Armor
The changes are a positive for the pilot, but it is a net nerf for everything else especially turret gunners. I understand the reason why CIG changed the ship the way it is, they want it to be an anti-ship gunship but its current iteration fails at that given its massive nerfs to shielding & hull HP and firepower. I should also mention that the Redeemer is in fact barely more agile than the constellation and corsair, the strong maneuvering thrusters that allow you to swap direction quickly is deluding people into thinking this ship is just as agile as a Vanguard. When in reality it is far from that.
This ship has a way to go before I think its in a good position. As a pilot of the Redeemer yes it feels good to fly now, but I care more about my turret gunners cause thats the main source of my firepower, and for them? They do not like the changes.
It's not larger than the Vanguard, it's smaller.
And the size and type of the gun isn't the only thing that determines the dps.
The redeemer? It is absolutely larger than the vanguard.. what are you getting at here?
keep it up!
Just getting started ;)
@@ForgeCoreGaming most people quit after a short time bc they realise its not instant money, hope it aint be you
@@ogelNnif-lx1jf Oh I have a good job already - I'm doing this with different intentions: make great content about a game I REALLY love to play and have been waiting on for a decade. Nothing scratches the itch quite like Star Citizen.
nah dude, look at 7:14 those size four guns need to be reverted to size 5. I bought this ship bc it literally says "Oversized Weapons" in the ship brochure. everything else sure, but the manned turrets, need to be S5. we just need more people to backlash like the galaxy. size 4 is not overpowered imo. thank you for bringing light on this subject
also ballistics overheat so maybe increase the bigger size ballistics to overheat to balance? idk, what do you think?
Yeah CIG's marketing department has some explaining to do. These aren't oversized at all.... :(
Thanks for watching and leaving a comment. Hope I earned your sub! See you in the verse!
Good and informative 👍
Thanks! I hope I earned your sub
A funny crewed Redeemer is a nightmare for any small and medium ships. It’s still a great ship. I never wanted one because of how brick like it used to be. I would like one now.
Get one! You can come test drive mine if you'd like.
Here's the thing though, is it worth crewing. If you pit you and 2 gunners against 3 fighters, do you get smoked? Or is there a possibility that you come out on top. That's what's gonna make this either DOA, or an ok change.
I think it comes out on top in that scenario. The benefit of gunners is that they can be more situational aware than the pilot in certain spots of the ship. Pilots have blindspots and have to watch shield levels, altitude (when in atmo), objects to avoid (when in asteroid fields), incoming missiles, etc. This goes for all parties in your proposed scenario. So the fighter pilots have their plate full as well. Pile on having to contend with gunners that are only focused on them.. I think the Redeemer wins.
5:20 why he throwing it back in the cockpit😂
Lol mind ya business
This video is cringe. It treats the subject as if immeasurable care, skill and artistry has gone into the thought process... instead of a bunch of blue-hairs making arbitrary choices working from home in Manchester. You're LARPing a development process that hasn't existed since the mid 2000s.
Can't please everyone, I suppose
When did they change this? I swear i was converting my redeemer to all lazors just a few days ago and was surprised that it had size 5 guns
When they released 3.24.2 - it felt like a gut punch when they announced it.
Starlancer tac will take its place in my fleet for sure.
I am excited for that Starlancer TAC. It's a pretty strong setup - I'll be doing a vid on it when it releases!
This was clearly CGI's intention, it flew similar to this originally
here is a problem, the current turn it had at release, then it was nerfed and now they just returning it to old turnrate. its not a buff. its a nerf since they nerfed guns and shields.
Fyi the Shield change is 200k to 36k. Furthermore it now has the hull hp of a C1...
The main issue with the nerf is that the Redeemer was 330 usd - let that sink in, pricier than a starlancer or connie... it's meant to be a step above the constellations, AND a dedicated gunship for pure combat (hence the heavy shields and s5 guns...) the sad truth is cig forgot this fact for whatever reason.... Even sadder is that now there is NO point crewing a redeemer when it has less firepower than a connie and needs 3 players. There is no point unless it has something special (s5 guns?) doubly so when you can have 3 arrows or f8's instead. The Redeemer should not have been nerfed that hard at all. If anything they should have restored it's initial agility which was nerfed to HH stats BTW, which was totally insane also... Once again CIG don't play the game they produce.
With the shield numbers, I was talking strictly 3.24.2 component values. I agree it should not have been nerfed quite as bad. I think there's a middle ground somewhere that would have been appropriate!
@@ForgeCoreGaming Yep, that would have been a shield nerf to say 1 s3 instead of 2 whilst keeping its agility and firepower intact. Cool shots tho, keep it up, wish you luck
@@Archista I definitely would have preferred at least 1 size 3. The price argument is a strong point to make.
Picked up a redeemer, replaced my harbinger with it. I agree, the flight characteristics feel good, nimble. The weapons for the pilot are a bit worse than the harbinger, but I'm planning to crew it with at least 2 more for the turrets so I'm willing to eat that loss.
Using the ship as its designers intended! Nice - do you like the old redeemer or the new one better?
I would also agree, the shield nerf was warranted. Shields pre nerf were 200k, yet the weapon output was in the realm of a harbinger, that only had roughly 28k-30k hp. For context, the connie Andromeda pre nerf had 100k shields and nearly double the dmg output of the redeemer. The redeemer was in a weird place between being a heavy fighter, based on dmg, yet a corvette class ship on the defenses. It needed to be defined as to what class it actually is.
@@AlanyxCross this is right on the money. Glad I'm not being crazy
@@ForgeCoreGaming tbh, I didn't fly the old redeemer. As a primarily solo player during my early time in SC, I chose the harbinger for my mrt and below missions, and took the connie Andromeda for my hrt and any missions I needed cargo space for. The dps for pilot only weapons is better than the redeemer on both ships.
However, and people have missed this heavily, the harbinger shields were brutally eviscerated as well. In fact, now that shields are actually adjusting properly, everything across the board was impacted negatively. Connie went from 100k to 56k. Harbinger from roughly 28k-30k to 10k. The redeemer was the biggest and so makes the most noise, but almost all ships got hit.
Since the redeemer now has 3x shields than the harbinger, and I have some people to crew it, it now makes more sense to fly. The dps isn't that far behind a harbinger.
Ngl i like the redeemer more then before. Its like a super heavy fighter right now. It was way to busted before but now it flies so well. Def a great addition to any convoy mission together with the hammerhead. And as a solo pilot its great for bounty hunting too now. I actually might pledge for one. So far i got mine ingame.
The only people who are happy about this are the ones who only want it for PvE or Solo.
@@CptFugu sorry but i wont take you serious. u cant even say a single line about what made it worse for pvp instead you just cry about it. get better arguments. i also love it for PVP atm. its so manuverable that it can easily delete any kind of fighter. and the turrets are moving faster too if i notice it right. so its not just a plain nerf they buffed other aspects to make it fit its role better.
@@eziiii3536 I posted about that somewhere else in this video. Look it up. Better yet, visit spectrum.
The turrets were the first nerf after the ship's launch. If anything they've been somewhat restored.
As for PvP, you can't really be serious. Either that, or you've been fighting noobs.
Thank you for trying to bring a balanced perspective to this topic. I think the CIG 'balancing team' (idk their official name) will have their hands full with making sure that every ship, current and future, will perform according to their intended design, especially when multi-crew/engineering and component upgrades are brought to full realization. Personally, I will try (and occasionally fail) not to get too attached to one ship but to the game play I want, and will select the right ship when we get closer to 1.0. Melting and CCU should make that sufficiently easy.
You are very welcome! And thank you for watching. There certainly will be more changes to come - I know there are likely some ships that I'll just never get rid of & it's ok to have favorites! Hope I earned your sub. Have a great weekend
It's a gunship and never should be agile like a heavy fighter. The whole POINT was for the pilot to fly the ship in a way to keep his turret gunners on target and deal with positioning the craft properly for attack runs or to dodge obstacles or to extend away.
As to balance, well I'm the odd man out here. I don't want a game full of things that all do the same thing and where everything has a fair chance. Why? Because I fully believe there should be times when you're out bashing around and someone shows up in something that makes everyone pucker. It's all fun and single seater games until a proper gunship shows up and ruins your fun. I say this, because people have this image of the single seat fighter being able to do literally anything and that's just not balanced, sorry. They have a role sure, mostly it's to go out and die and try to do as much damage as they can before they get shot down. They CAN be very powerful......in a fleet, when there's bunches of them to combine their weight of fire. But the balance here are gunships and antifighter screen ships.....like the redeemer, or, like it was.
Redeemer was a threat and taken very seriously by anyone savvy in a fighter. They treated it differently because it posed a VERY serious threat to them. Now? ....meh
And that's even before I get into the shields.....what the actual hell. The only reason this was done was to simply make redeemer less tanky....so, less gunship-like. Which is the typical bag of CiG mixed signals and confusion. They simply don't know what they want to do with the gunship class.
This kind adjustment would be like giving hammerhead twenty size one shields and moving turrets to all size threes.....just....WHY?
TTK is too long in the game. Sorry but drama can eat one. Chris has said over and over he wants an experience to mimic the kind of action we see in things like starwars or WWII dogfights. Well, ok....someone needs to sit Mr. Roberts down to watch those things again because in both of them, dogfighting is full of boom and zoom and whoever gets a firing solution first, WINS. Know all the times in SW when a ship takes hits and the crew is like "whew that was close but I think I'm ok" or "she'll hold together"....ya, its because they took a glancing blow and that alone was damaging to the ship causing them to have to do emergency rerouting or patch jobs etc.....a glancing shot! Deathstar, Vader wiped the floor with the xwings with just a burst. Endore invasion, both sides had fighters being knocked out of space with just few hits or even one solid hit. WWII? Forget about it, maneuver into position, guns guns, other guy is toast.
There are kinds of drama. Getting into a big furball and kicking butt all the while risking instant boom or near instant boom and trusting your skills to keep you alive. Or circle strafing while shooting marshmallows at each other until one ship explodes from sheer boredom.....guess which one we have now?
And you know what, ok I could even let ALL this slide if they'd just not have put in capacitors. Oh but we can't have weapons that can cycle all the time, sounds dumb to me but ok, how about you get those coolers working like they should? Make coolers and heat function properly and it literally solves the issue and replaces capacitors. Want to shoot the energy guns non stop? Ok, but your heat builds up faster and may start to shut down random systems or limit available power while the cooler goes to work. Taking hits and the shields have to constantly recharge WHILE you're shooting those energy weapons? Hope you upgraded those coolers to top tier otherwise you're boned.......but instead we get hamfisted capacitors, yay?
Sorry, it's this kind of derpy decision making that makes me fearful of the end result. More and more this game has drifted away from the awesome thing CR promised and is turning into a pretty normal game with pretty visuals and some cool party tricks....and that's sad. I'm pretty passionate about the project and want to play it for at least a decade, my new wow.....but man, at every step CiG push me further away and chip away at my positive spirit for it. I get not everyone wants DCS in space but there's no reason we can't have a good mix. And hamstringing things like this is NOT the good mix.
Redeemer will probably become another hangar queen for me, alongside the MISC.....and that's just wrong.
I think its still one of the cooles fighter hunter in the game 🙂
until turrets get the buff they need so their is a reason to multi crew instead of flying say 3 f7a mk2,
Yeahhhhh... multicrew ships are kinda getting shafted right now
yall on some serious copium. you NEED therapy for this stockholm syndrome you have going on with this game
It's nice to us in the summer
This ship, and the dream of taking out frigates with my dad and brother was the whole reason i got into SC.
It was sold as one of the few ships in its class to punch up, and now its not.
Its more suited to bounty hunting, but instead of holding cells its has useless drop seats
I do agree with the shield nerfs to a degree. We'll see how durable it is once it relatively low hull HP is rendered moot with maelstrom. But as it stands a more than 70% reduction in shield capacity is overhanded
It was my favorite and most used ship but the nerf was massive! I could have lived with the downsize in guns. I would agree it was OP in that area but the nerf to both guns and shields has pushed it into my melt or upgrade list for this up coming IAE. We already have nimble fighters now the Redeemer is more like a bad fighter and not a gun ship. F'ck the Redeemer.
Shield nerf i can understand but gun nerf for a gunship is fatal!
I can't decide which nerf I dislike the most >.
Not sure why, but I was never really into the Redeemer... The looks, the Interior design, the weapon layout...
Then again, I like ships that work well solo as well. I think MOST ships in SC should work for Single Player. I love Multiplayer and it's the king of having fun in the game, BUT life gets in the way and the proper corp-play sessions are highly numbered! Even more so if you need a bare minimum of an hour to even get started...
I am with you in that I will likely spend the majority of the time flying solo... it's just my style. At the same time I don't think I should stand a chance against anything that is crewed by 2 or more people (and is combat focused). And for that reason I am glad the Corsair got 'nerfed', a large ship like that should not be that soloable.
I think all the changes are fine except Size 5 guns being nerfed....like ehat was the reason for coni getting 4 soze 5s? No one complained when it had 2 size 5 and 2 size 4. Didnt see anyone overly concerned that the redeemer had size 5s just more ppl saying it is too heavily shielded for a ship of it size which I would agreed.
Imo up size the guns back to size 5 and give it more shield hp to 75k. Adjust maneuverability as needed for balance.
This is feasible. I'd be ok with the shields staying the same if they just gave us back some of the pew pews.
Question. For the gun size reduction they increased the tower speed so its even better for its role to destroy light fighters right? I see that as a total win. For bigger fighters we have the hammerhead. Now it makes sense to have a hammerhead and a redeemer in your convoy.
I have to disagree. A good part of your assessment is based on the wrong contest: PvE and Solo. It is a multiplayer ship in a game where PvP is basically guaranteed.
In a PvP game ships need to be balanced for PvP encounters. Right now, the Redeemer is not worth crewing because the damage output and protection are too low to justify packing 4 to 5 crewmen in there vs having 4 to 5 people flying their individual ships.
Even with 3 people onboard the Redeemer can be cut down by a single fighter. Not only that, it is more expensive (by about $100.00!), has higher crew requirements, lower protection, and lower firepower than similar ships such as the Connie and the Corsair. Both ships that currently carry 4 S5 guns and 1 S3 shield, by the way.
When you put this ship in a balanced encounter with 3 players in medium fighters, vs 3 players in the Redeemer, the Redeemer is totally outclassed and it is basically defenseless. The range of the S4 guns is too short, and the damage output too low to effect any sort of control over the battle. She ship is still too slow and sluggish to do any sort of pursuit or even contest the initiative. And the protection is too to keep it in the fight long enough to cause anything more than minimal attrition to the other team.
I think they could've taken one S3 shield and that would've been enough. But they went too far and gave too little so, as the ship is right now, it is not worth the money or the time. To add insult to injury, the Galaxy came out at the same price (non-warbond) with pretty much the same specs the redeemer had. So people who bought the Redeemer early or late will have to either, get stuck with a dud, or put more money on the game.
Really classy from CIG.
Honestly the optic is destroyed my taking it down to S4 instead of S5 guns, and I completely get the shielding, thats fine, but damn, don't take the guns....
With the manueverability, yeah, it was sluggish, but I liked it anyway.
I dislike the nerf, exclusively cause of the Guns. I'll likely be taking it out of my fleet with a bleeding heart if they don't give the guns back. ;(
Stay strong.. maybe if we make enough noise it'll happen
The problem with the redeemer has always been the same classic problem with any multicrew ship. Why would you put two players in your gunner seats when those two players on two separate fighters can do much more?
Oh boy - you bring up a very valid point. I think this ship serves people who prefer multicrew. I know I've met people who don't like piloting their own ships. There are certainly others like that! But very valid point.
I think the main value of multicrew will kick in once the full economy develops and there's a lot more players of all skill levels present. Ships like the Hornet Mk 2 are very strong with skilled pilots, but if you have a ton of novice and industrial focused players in your org it'll make more sense to have one turreting a Scorpius for a skilled pilot than buying two Hornets only to have one crash and burn early in the fight.
@@davidbigboutay782 See, that's a very likely case. I know my org has several players that mostly prefer fps content in SC... or we have cargo haulers...etc. I can't wait for professions to be more fleshed out.
Aye-Gus?
All good points, I still love my redeemer but It’s certainly does justify its $330 cost anymore…
Nerfing its firepower is one thing but it was always supposed to be a very hard ship to kill… it certainly not that anymore.
I still love mine as well - it would be hard for them to walk back on price at this point. Hopefully they give it some of it's "beef" back.
The redeemer looked ridiculous with size 5 guns. I think this is much better. I think size 4 guns should go up a few percent in damage output.
Agree
i very much love the new redeemer, but i want them to make a few changes, i honestly think that the manned turrets could be quad s4 guns. even if it’s just the top turret that gets that. the other option would be making the front remote turret s4 guns and remove the “turret” aspect of it, and making the manned turrets remote using the seats behind the pilot. either way i think it would help the ship out quite a bit.
Yes to all of this
Please redo your PVP test with atleast 2 turret gunners so we can see the outcome
I'll try to get that done in the next week. Other videos are currently being edited/filmed and the servers aren't helping!
guns ++
Music is too loud, it covers your voice sometimes
This was many videos ago.. I've learned the proper levels since
I always kind had the impression the newer version of the redeemer, was to fill a kind of a support roll, akin to like a Aapache helo, support for troops on the ground. Or in numbers as a support craft for larger vessels, not something that should be specificaly religated to fighter vs fighter comparison. I could use ambush tactics in space with like asteroid fields, and the bigger guns allowed that. WIth a full crew requirement, you could have as many connie andromeda's, sure you'll probably tear up 1 of them, mean while each turret is gonna be in a deficit shooting at the other 2. Not to mention the connies huge missile payload and snubcraft. I think CIG is losing their ability of classifying craft, and perhaps marketing keeps nudging them to do this and that for the extra buck on sales. I think it definatly needed the agility boost, and shields were definatly over the top, but it'd been more in line to nerf its scm speed, and then if needed with MM mode, give it a cruising speed with other systems on idle for getting from point A to point B.
I really like the redeemer and was intending to buy one. Id flown it several times before and it was clunky but felt like a tank.
After the nerfs i have no intention of picking one up. I think the nerfs were too harsh. Personally, i think the top turret should go back to size 5 guns and they should double its shield capacity back to somewhere around 70k at least. Keep the flight model changes as is. I think that would be a good middle ground for it.
However, they need to fix the power issues. All of these changes are moot if the power problems stay the same.
As usual people cry without even trying or understanding game balance. The man here has tested and made a compelling argument yet people complain and cry they nerfed their op ship. Go take a look on hangar link how goddaman tiny the Deemer is compared to other ships that carry 2 s3 shields. Its manoeuvrability was garbage because it was the only balance tool that they had to try and bring in line a ship that small with tremendous shields and 4 s5 guns on basically 360 turrets.
Its stats now are more in line with its ship class, still very strong, especially crewed (as it should be), but not Hammerhead level with half the crew requirements and 1/4 of the cross section.
And man if I hear another “they nerfed the redeemer so they could sell the TAC” imma lose it. A ship 3 times the size, with double the crew requirements, probably shitty manouverablity and 2 s5 turrets that shoot BROADSIDES and can’t even shoot forward, nor the same target is nowhere near a Redeemer replacement.
People need to stop buying ships off of stats and understand that money spent are towards the development of their dream game, not to buy your new p2w toy. Alpha is the place to figure out features and game balance, stuff will change.
That’s why they allow you to melt your pledges and buy whatever else you please. No purchase is final, no harm, no malicious plot.
I’ve never played a game where I could buy whatever and then change when I didn’t want it anymore.
Let her cook! 🍳 I welcome the debate though, and it's helpful to see the insight of others as to how they would make adjustments.
The Redeemer is still my favorite daily driver - probably more so since the update.
You make a lot of great points that are aligned with what I was thinking.
Thanks for commenting, and I hope I earned your sub!
@@ForgeCoreGaming Debate is good if the feedback provided is constructive, like the complaints to what they’ve with the Corsair. Rather than slaving the copilot to be a glorified button pusher either make 2 s5 on a real turret or just downsize the guns to s4.
That is feedback.
Throwing a fit and saying stuff like “I’ve lost faith in CIG”, “I won’t be playing anymore after what they’ve done with my Redeemer” ain’t feedback. It’s childish behaviour.
@@Michele-g1k Oh absolutely! You are correct here :)
Best Redemmer narrative! I instant follow! Really glad that my redeemer is not dead, but have another purpose! And still in the game 👌 Now I know I will keep it for sure
I use it all the time still! Only downside right now are the MFD's are kinda busted.
@@ForgeCoreGaming Ah dam yes I got that bug too
DO NOT REDEEM
Its garbage, nonsense design and no purpose. Its just a placeholder for the paladin. As simple as that.
I'll have to agree to disagree. Me and my friends flew the Redeemer almost regularly. It very much felt like a beast when you got the drop on enemies but if you got into a turn fight, or a fight that required speed, the only thing saving you was its shields. I'm 90% sure the only reason why it got nerfed was to make the Starlancer TAC more appealing. It DOES fly nicer now than it did before, but it very much feels it lost almost all its bite and is much closer to being a glass cannon...well maybe a glass musket as it not longer has the firepower to be considered a cannon. I think the Hammerhead just needed a small buff to shields to make the power dynamic between the two more equal. Plus the Hammerhead was more meant to take on groups of lighter fighters and the Redeemer was meant to take on slow sturdy targets, basically a mini-Perseus, which was how it was used. I think the Redeemer got nerfed WAY to hard and received almost nothing in return.
honestly, I don't like that ship, I think it's ugly and estheticaly doesn't match Aegis, especially these scissor wings
BUT, I have to admit, being in and organisation that will basicaly be space truckers with their own intern security department, that this ship has A LOT of potential in defense of a convoy
but the beds and the seats should be reverted, jumpseats on the first level and beds on the second
I agree! Something needs to be done about those beds
@@ForgeCoreGaming right ? it make more sense, why the "marines" you transport have to use a ladder and THEN be able to exit your ship ? it make no real sense
Why you steering the redeemer with your butt
?
Honestly this ship has no purpose anymore in my fleet. I'm waiting for CIG to come to their senses on some of the recent changes but I'll be dead before that happens. They murdered my Deemer and my Corsair. The agility of this ship has always been poor and made no sense. If anything this ship should be a fast attack dropship.Big engines for straightline speed, big guns to hit the target zone hard before entry, just enough shields to survive a hot LZ, and then a quick drop off of soldiers from seats next to the ramp. Instead we get this $330 paper weight that the money and crew would have been more wisely spent on a Scorpious and Gladius.
Bad video, you had an opinion on combat performance and it failed against all opposition, you mentioned it would be different with a turret gunner (fun fact it doesnt help at all) and you never tested it and still said you think its in a good place.
If you did some actual testing, it is a very bad ship right now.
Cig made a balance change that might have come from a good place as the redeemer should not have been so tanky, but they nerfed offense and defense at the same time by far too much rather than a minor change and the result was a ship that is never worth bringing because its too fragile to bring other players and without other players it lacks firepower too much.
@DakkaDakka12 The premise of the test was established ahead of time. Finding several people to crew a redeemer in arena commander sometimes isn't possible. It isn't feasible to put a video on hold for the sake of "doing all the tests". Deductions can be made.
Furthermore, just because it lost against smaller/faster ships doesn't mean it's in a bad place. It just indicates that in that specific set of circumstances, it couldn't contend. There are all sorts of scenarios that I COULD have tested... but I chose not to.
I appreciate the feedback - my opinion stands as it comes from a specific position. That position is that I see a direction that I believe CIG is going with this (and other ships).
I doubt this is the last stage of adjustments - there will be plenty more. Games rebalance even after they full launch, and this is just in Alpha.
But again - thanks for the feedback.
the anti fighter got counter by fighter typical CIG
Only when piloted solo!
Possibly the dumbest design of a ship is SC
ouch
Its pronounced with a soft g, its "aejis"
I'm gonna make sure I pronounce something incorrectly in every video lol :)
CIG really wants me to stop backing this game after over a decade. BMM religated to the postponed graveyard, Galaxy descoped features, Redeemer nerfed into a medium fighter.
Hmmm.. if you fly it solo, yeah I could see it right on par with a heavy fighter like the vanguard series of ships. It definitely isn't quick or nimble enough to be compared to a medium fighter though 🤔. Honestly, I'm looking at the upcoming Mirai Guardian to be a viable solo daily driver. But I see your point - it's hard to keep throwing money at the game when "what you buy" isn't "what you get" in the long haul. Honestly, if they allowed store credit to be applied to warbonds I think their changes would be more well received.
The Galaxy has base building.
@@fmartingorb maybe it will in the future, but certainly not at release.
@ you mean it was not shown in the previews. I have a Galaxy, but I prefer to have the Perseus in game tbh. The redeemer was nerfed weapons wise, but has better maneuverability. It is still a great ship. And this will happen across the board. I own it too
@@fmartingorb don't get me wrong I'm about $3k into funding over 11 years. I love the dream but I'm getting exhausted. I took a year off and came back to this mess, I guess I'll wait until next year to find out if PU is stable.
Nerf the Redeemers fire power, gave it to the competition.....
Bro, you gotta really be trying to not know how to pronounce the word Aegis at this point
Wow - I don't think I've ever been told that was incorrect. Googled it though.. I'll delete the video right now.
@@ForgeCoreGaming Haha CR and Sandi Gardiner don't know either. You are in good company.
It not a big deal. Another keyboard warrior.
@ No, you’re absolutely right, content creators who’s entire contribution is to talk over the video should be mispronouncing words like illiterate tictoc-brains, who’ve never read a fucking book in their lives. Maybe throw in a speech impediment and some lazy mumbling, and you’ve got a prime candidate for a TH-cam channel.
ae·gis
/ˈējəs/