BwodeCast - Avalon Hill RESPONDED to AI Claims; Your Thoughts on First Light
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2024
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"Incredibly talented" is not the phrase i would have used regarding the first light art.
Seriously, whether the artwork was done by AI or a human, its really bad. If AH approved this crappy artwork for the cover, it makes me wonder how cheap/crappy the contents will be.
Yeah, if this is what AI has to offer, then I don't think artists need to be concerned about AI replacing them if they have any skill.
The Hasbro response is worrisome. For a company making games to treat customers like they're stupid, that is.
And even calling it "magnificent and intricate art"
Haa I it's can't bad like
The box art is disappointing, but if the overlays, board tiles, and card images are also obviously AI, that's where it will become problematic for me, because then the art direction is negatively impacting my play experience. We have never had an expansion that gave additional open and closed doors, in spite of the fact that some official quests require more doors than come with the game. I hope, this being a new entry point, that it becomes the first product to increase the door count!
High hopes for that outcome as well.
I really think the problem is gone once the box top is lifted (and if we ignore the repeat of the art inevitably on the quest book and or rule book).
I can't imagine they'd have to outsource the board, card and tile art.
Cruella Deville: extra evil in Monopoly Disney Villains Edition!
I think First Light is a great idea. No thoughts on execution until it releases, but I am giving it a ton of leeway for it's purpose of trying to bring in new players and to hit a lower price point. With that being said, the cover art feels like huge misstep with (or as AH is claiming) without AI. It visually disconnects from the house-style that AH was building towards. Jungles of Delthrak has the style, tone and playfulness that match it to the other sets.
This is 100% my take as well. Love the idea of First Light being an easier entry point for new players and liken it to what Gloomhaven did with Jaws of the Lion. IMHO Avalon Hill has proven how capable they are with every HQ expansion to date, and that has earned enough good faith to reserve judgment until the full reveal.
While I don’t like the cover art for FL as it breaks with the style to date. Its probably too late to change it, but hopefully future installments will return to form with the art. Ultimately whats in the box will be infinitely more important to my purchasing decision.
popcorn at the ready!
listened... many good points. as for the monk, rogue, those weren't supposed to be limited runs, so we expect them to be restocked. political polarization is a broad and thorny topic. it does affect how some people make their buying choices, so fair point. this is rantcast fuel... for sure
Alright, if this is just full of cardboard standees I'm not buying it. I like minis. I may very well not buy it anyway with Avalon Hill's association with Mr. Mitchell. And particularly if the final product is still full of AI artifacts.
I don't really care how good an AI product looks. It could look like Les Edwards and John Blanche pooled their DNA to clone a super artist, win awards and fool everybody and it doesn't matter. It's not about how the art looks to me when it comes to AI. It's all about replacement. Replacement of hiring an assortment of human artists *with their creativity and unique styles, think Elmore compared to Brom* with one guy sitting at a desk and entering prompts until middle management gives him a thumbs up on whatever their AI program's regurgitated. I can't support companies doing this, I can't support human artists losing value until they're reduced to hobbyists making a few extra bucks on Etsy.
And I know, I know. This is a losing battle. I'm turning 50 next month and I have no doubt that still, within my lifetime, most major companies will be doing exactly this. Some will call it progress, we'll lose artists the way we lost blacksmiths and leather workers and seamstresses/tailors and whatever else. Some will call my stance hypocritical because I don't miss blacksmiths. Their arguments might have validity. But so do mine. I won't pay for art (for lack of a better word) that I can, and *have* created myself with the typing of a few sentence fragments and the click of a mouse. If I pay for art, I pay for *human* creativity and human styles. My money and thus my choice. If it deprives me of a HeroQuest supplement? The horror.
I'm not dying on Avalon Hill.
Art work aside, if this can get people into heroquest that would be a good thing
I don't expect first light to be worth it. I'm expecting plastic standies and a half baked (expanded) campaign with possibility the arena from over hord rules reprinted. Sadly I don't expect to buy it.
Wonder if someone could make a decent amount of money making custom boxes like that guy with Warhammer Quest.
I think that the jungles artwork wasn't particularly great compared to previous artwork... more concerned about the future expansion than the artwork.. after all eye beholder and all that !!!
They would be daft not to do wizzards of morcar specially since they did ogre hord they were to 2 expansions exclusive to Europe i remember when i got them they went sort of hand in hand
It's a very important turn for a game we love and perhaps a small election for AI and production strategy in large.
We cast our votes with our money.
I think the real problem is
the art is objectively poor in composition and execution. What is going on here? The wizard is an afterthought, and the barbarian is subliminaly F-ing the elf. This art has all the soulessness and wonkyness of AI generated art. If AI is going to replace anything, it should at least to a better job.
The statement reads as if it were wrote by co-pilot. Interestingly though the artist founded NFT cards, so potentially he could use his own art make it into NFTs and then use AI to change the style so could be his own art, so technically not cheating? Maybe? I don't know
I think that this answer of AH is not really honest because it's obvious that the art is, at least, based on AI art and refusing to aknowledge this fact, even after being asked about it is quite sketchy. Because, the reality is that this art certainly costed far less than a complete human art from a real artist. If I'm vocal about that, it's not because I suddenly want to hate a company, it's because I don't want to let such big companies as Hasbro think that we are okay with that kind of practice. Because if we are okay with that, it's obvious that we're going to see a downgrade in the game production of the following years and a lot of artists who are going to struggle because of that.
An other thing that was source of critics was the complete change of art direction. They said that they want to make a product for the newcomers, and that's great, but they also declared that it also targets the fans. Why on earth change the art, creating a complete artistic difference between the different boxes and its cards, tokens, etc. Because, I really doubt that, if the box art is new, the cards will keep the old art...
That being said, I'm not criticizing the mechanics or what's inside the box : and don't even exactly know what it will be ! The idea of a lighter and cheaper starter product is great, it's just a shame to use this to introduce such a bad practice as AI art.
2:21 🤔 Are we certain that the bwodecasts are not being infiltrated by AI? Has Ash been body snatched or voice snatched by the AI dreadtrix 😜
Great response Ash! Always taking your word as gospel. Shoutout to @HeroQuestFans for signposting me to this episode via th-cam.com/users/postUgkxfcNZXjlVwoiVqWgg4_mvP4Ubu8FYocjv?si=_ae8qlzfUvhATfSg
I'm not familiar with the artist named. Are they problematic in some way?
Yeah laws need to be changed man this is a new era problem but don't work when governments realise that people are benefitting from something they will make it illegal there just slow with most things
So am not crying on or anything but am not well and had more than half of the original hq stuff but because of the remake my brother has bought everything and am so happy now I don't agree with the way ai art is being used but in my position I don't have the luxury of time to care I just don't and it's a lot of game to get through so just want to put it out there that there are so many reasons why alot of people can a should buy this without guilt
I can imagine ah doing that though but how many of them are left hasbro layoffs remember
Ahhhhh haaaa I just looked at the monopoly sooooo funny I'm pissing my self😊
It's soooo bad.
I think the worst part of all this, is the discussion of AI art rather than the speculation of the game and possibility of game mechanics. Takes the whole HQ thing off the tracks, ruins pre-release hype, when we are talking about everything but the contents of game.
I listened back to this again .... here's the problem !! It's not the artwork or the fact it was or wasn't AI. The picture just doesn't fit the heroquest we all love and are passionate about !!!! It's a dungeon crawler, and we see heroes on the top of a mountain!!! It doesn't make sense to us !!!! I imagine the artists probably never played heroquest and possibly don't know too much about it! I think that fans of the game and of any thing like football or baseball or star wars etc. Just get too invested it and this leads to the conversation we're having !!! Good art, just doesn't capture the essence of heroquest!!!!!
My thoughts on first light are the same as they have since it was revealed. It's going to be a strange product.
My thoughts on the backlash, however, are different.
I have seen so much hate and vitriol for this product that i expect stems entirely from the AI controversy. I don't believe it would be as universally panned by the fans of the game if the art didn't so resemble AI.
If you hate the AI art, that's fine. Do your thing.
But stop attacking everything else about the set before we even know what's in the box, or the price. This is supposed to be an entry box for people who can't or won't ship out over $100 for the game. The smaller box makes it easier to put on shelves at retail stores.
I hate cardboard assets, and judging from the apparent size of the box it's going to be absolutely loaded with them. However, i find myself being forced to defend this product due to the sheer and unmitigated outrage caused exclusively by the art.
This box existing is not bad for the game. Having a cheaper entry point is not bad for the game.
So, for fuck's sake, if you're going to attack this product, have a go at the art and stop slamming the entire product as a whole. Don't let your anger at once aspect of this release taint your view of the rest of the product.
We all know who this is for. That question doesn't need to be asked in every single comments section on every social media platform. We all want more heroquest, we all want more people having the ability to enjoy the game we love.
Ash, this comment is not exclusively directed at you, but the fandom as a whole. My hope is that we can all calm down and become objective when discussing this product.
Agreed there’s way to much negativity about the box art, when the focus should be the contents of the box and what it offers veteran players.
AI art is crap. That’s the issue. A reduction in quality. If it could replicate the style of the rest of the line and no one noticed then it would be a different matter. We just don’t want Heroquest to fizzle and disappear due to cost cutting and a lack of genuine creativity.
I can't pretend to care about AI in art too much, as long as (i) it's used as a tool and not a final product (ii) it goes through quality control (iii) it actually looks...good. They've certainly failed on point ii and iii above, and worse of all, they either lied about the use of AI or don't know what AI is!?
As much I think Avalon Hill have done good things with HQ recently, the level of detail is poor across the product. I find errors all over their cards and books. Just little things like fonts being different, spelling errors, ambiguous Quest details. Very frustrating, as before anything goes to print you'd assume it goes through a couple of final check procedures.
As for First Light, this may be the first of the new releases I don’t buy. The box art aside, all it shows me are the four classic heroes in an horrible style with no data as to what we are getting. Very much feels like their energy for HQ has died off, and they are just squeezing the IP to get every drop out of the fan base with rehash of something we already have.
I very much agree with your sentiments in an earlier video. We’ve got a ton of good stuff from AH, with only a couple of things left I’d like to see. Beyond maybe a couple of other box sets, I think this new cycle of HeroQuest is now winding down…and I’m completely fine with that.
You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
Just whingers throwing up their arms huffing and puffing. I think the Jungles of Delthrak Quest Pack box art sucks but I'll purchase as I want to fight a giant spider.
This new pack needs only one solid TH-camr to say "these new quests are brilliant" and the whingers will all be back peddling out buying a copy. The price point is essential too IMHO.
Just my two cents.
So what if it's AI? You guys are making a big deal out of this. It has a new style for the art. Big deal. It has it's own charm.
Lol it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't a bit ughhhh hq has been around to long to change the look to much I think the remake it just ok u know they got away with it but this one is a bit far left field
I'm going to break it to the anti-AI crowd now, 99.9% of humanity doesn't have a bug up its butt about it, and Hasbro is not losing sales because of it. I know there's a lot of cope on Reddit and Twitter that says otherwise, and it's just cope.
I assume First Light is at best, work in progress art, and it most probably used AI, but also it's a real artist using it. One can tell most people reviewing pieces haven't seriously used AI programs OR done traditional artwork or understand digital painting. And just think everything jank is AI, or everything speed painted is AI. Which just adds to gow tiresome normal people find it all.
I'd love to see companies develop stables of great artists with distinct styles the way Games Workshop did back in the 1990s, but they aren't and AI is here and here to stay either way.