I wish you would have been my History teacher back in school. I have learnt much more watching your videos than I ever learnt in school. And you are so beautiful not at all like my History teacher back then. Keep uploading these great videos so we all can learn more about our past.
An absolutely awesome, concise, well put together video, with beautiful pictures and narrator! Should have been much cooler temps for the pigeons underground. Thank You for mind opening video 💝
Very interesting study. In regard to the domed structure of the caves with the hole at the top. They remind me of what are called Nuraghe on the island of Sardinia in the Mediterranean. Several thousand are known to exist and while many are in ruins some still retain most of their domed or beehive shaped interior chambers with a hole at the top. They do not contain the many small niches but I have seen multiple that have larger trapezoidal niches inside. They are believed to have been constructed by the Nuragic civilization starting around 1,800 BC but this is merely more mainstream archaeological supposition. In fact someone recently posted a video on facebook of a hike into the Caucasus mountains in Russia, near Georgia. The man came across a stone structure that nothing is officially known about. It bares a striking resemblance to the Nuraghe with large lintels over the doorways, an identical beehive interior with hole at the top and at least one niche is seen inside in the shadows. Not only do I suspect this structure is related to the Nuraghe but also to the domed/bell caves in this video of yours. The true antiquity of all of them is not known. They resemble ancient structures such as the so called Treasury of Atreus in Mycenae and The Barabar caves in India in general design, but the two forementioned structures do not have holes in their domes. I don't know whether or not pidgeon domestican was originally the work of an advanced civilization in prehistory. Animal husbandry seems rather primitive to me. We see ourselves as advanced now with our exploding factory animal farming operations and ongoing DNA research but in many ways we are still very very primitive. DNA study and manipulation is advanced when compared to a hunter gatherer lifestyle but is essentially abusive if not delved into with high standards and strict ethics. The implication in the word "advanced" does not in and of itself equate to *honorable*. To me, advanced methods of sustainment of the physical body would extend beyond the domestication animals, but would go far deeper than that. Developing methods of sustainment that extract vital nutrients in the most non-invasive and non-abusive ways. To even formulate nutritionally perfect synthetic alternatives to eating the flesh, eggs and consuming the fluids of other creatures. A unity of science and spirit. Transcending the lower nature. Of course, creatures consume other creatures on Earth. Everything dies and is reborn. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only harnessed and transformed. I trust that our lost ancient advanced civilization, or at least a faction of them......had a highly developed moral compass and pushed beyond the limits of third dimensional perception in extraordinary ways. We are not the physical body.
Thank you for the insightful comments. It is interesting that you mentioned Nuraghe civilization. I was gathering information for the Chinese stone tombs and came across some stone chambers from Nuraghe civilization. I thought the Chinese tombs seem to share some similarities with the Nuraghe chambers. I didn’t know that the Caucasus Mountains in Russia have structures as you described. Could you please share the video if you can find it? I am very curious. There may be more mysterious stone structures in Russia and other countries along the Black Sea. I agree that we are probably still at the infantile stage of advanced civilizations. From what I read, currently we are too focused and limited to the material world and not utilizing our real abilities. We are not mere physical bodies but spiritual beings. At a higher conscious level, thought and morality have power and more so than physical strength. I like your theory that “our lost ancient advanced civilization or at least a faction of them......had a highly developed moral compass and pushed beyond the limits of third dimensional perception in extraordinary ways.” That coincides with Plato: 'As for those genealogies of yours which you have related to us, they are no better than tales of children; for in the first place, you remember one deluge only, whereas there were a number of them. And in the next place there dwelt in your land, which you do not know, the fairest and noblest race of men that ever lived of which you are but a seed or remnant. And this was not known to you because for many generations the survivors of that destruction made no records.'
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Here is a link to the video of the structure found in the Caucasus that resembles the Nuraghe m.facebook.com/groups/8640515501?view=permalink&id=10158470956735502
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Oh there are many fascinating structures in the Caucasus! The megalithic structures called dolmens (translates to "portal tomb") are fascinating. There are thousands in the caucasus alone and many thousands in a variety of forms all over the Eastern hemisphere. Many of them are constructed of large slabs of stone as walls with a large slab on top very well fitted together and many are built with precision cut stacked stone mortarless construction, but there are many that are cut right into bedrock. They have very curious round portals cut or shaped into the front. Many of them still have stone plugs for the portal hole still on the ground around them. They are presumed to be "neolithic era tombs" due to the dating of the remains found in or near them but I believe neolithic era people simply found them and used them as places of burial. No one knows how old they actually are, who erected them or what their purpose was. The majority of the portal holes are too small for a human bigger than a child to fit into. Neolithic people lived in mud huts and were challenged enough to work with wood. To suggest they erected the structures is silly. There is no sign of a quarry anywhere near the dolmen found in the Caucasus. I was very excited to find a dolmen in the Caucasus that has a precision fit mortarless megalithic wall forming an enclosure around its front. On the blocks and on the slab that makes up the foundation of the dolmen there are several of the increasingly famous "knobs"/protrusions that are found on so many ancient megalithic structures across the globe and that ties the dolmens to this lost civilization. There must be a specific purpose for those knobs. Yes, presently as a collective humanity is still in an infantile stage. Materialism and excessive focus on externals has us hostage to our own lower nature. Our true advancement comes from within, not outside ourselves and I have a strong suspicion that we will find this is something the ancients who were responsible for these structures knew at a profound level. We view writing as advanced and mainstream academics use the development of writing as a marker for an advancing civilization, but I beg to differ. From a higher state of consciousness communication is telepathic and memory is stronger. I suspect to some extent we developed writing because we devolved into a lower state of being, where organizing externally became necessary. Cut off from the light within. Making it more challenging for most to see beyond the flesh......and so entered modern religions. It is curious that in Hinduism the beginning of The Kali Yuga (The Age Of Darkness) is believed to have begun in 3,200 BC. The lowest of the four Yuga cycles. A cycle of time in which virtue is at its lowest in humankind. Described as a very challenging age where materialism, avarice, deceitfulness and general ill intention are the norm and real virtue and principal are rare. The Mayan Long Count calendar began in 3114 BC and Dynastic Egypt sprung up around 3,000 BC with Sumeria approximately a few centuries before. Interesting that so much globally was emphasized during that window of time. The Kings lists in Egypt and Sumeria record Kings that ruled for thousands of years beyond that point. An Egyptian Kings list goes back 36,000 years, a full processional cycle and a half back. Though academia only recognizes the 1st mortal King of the 1st dynasty in Old Kingdom Egypt and regards the prior 'god kings' as myth. Were they myth or were they surviving records of a forgotten time when a highly advanced civilization existed on Earth? The Dynastic Egyptians regarded themselves not as a pioneering civilization, but as a legacy, and they spoke of a time called "Zep Tepi" which translates to "The first time".....
@@MrZayne8 We are on a similar searching path I was gathering information on dolmens - seems they dotted the coastlines of Eurasia. The portal dolmens with the curious round openings on the front stone slabs look quite ancient. I agree that Neolithic people found these structures and utilized them but they were not the original creators. Korea and Japan have a great number of dolmens, though they don’t have the round openings. There is very limited information on dolmens in China. I will in the future do a video to introduce the Chinese dolmen sites. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, which I found very interesting and profound. The human race could be highly advanced and capable of telepathic communication, though somehow over time we lost the knowledge of our real history and our intrinsic abilities. Human spirits are way more powerful than physical strength and they don’t decline with age. I wonder whether there is a connection with Hindu golden age (Satya Yuga) and the Greek Golden Age because the descriptions of the two have a lot in common. In both golden ages, all people are saintly, long living, powerfully built, honest, youthful, vigorous, erudite and virtuous. Hinduism and Greek mythology both state that currently we are in the worst age, Kali Yuga or the Iron Age. People become slaves to their passions and are barely as powerful as their earliest ancestors in the golden age. Knowledge is lost and scriptures diminished… Waddell’s chronology has a list of comparison on the Sumerian King’s list with the Hindu King gods. To me many, the gods’ names share striking similarities. Here is the link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waddell%27s_chronology “Waddell's primary chronology was compiled from various Sumerian king lists, Egyptian list of pharaohs, the Bhagavata Purana, Mahabharata, Rigveda and numerous Indus Valley Civilization seals and other monuments and relics and sources, some of which he had deciphered himself”.
What I wonder is how many more sites are buried around the world. Many sites where discovered by accident and archaeologists have to invent new kings and warlords to explain their construction.
There are certainly many sites yet to be discovered - both buried underground and underwater. With new advancing technology, the ability to find and uncover these sites will shine new light onto these mysteries and help with our research.
I appreciate all the work you have put into your videos. I’ve been in involved video projects and I know they require a lot of work just on the production end, but your videos contains many photos, diagrams and in person commentary (this episode is my favorite, because so much information was presented of which I knew nothing. Not to mention a nice wardrobe choice😀), that is presented in a very scholarly manner, which obviously entails much research, and then needs a script written to clearly state your thesis. I really enjoyed this episode.
Pigeons and doves are very useful in sending messages quickly. You bring your pigeons with you on a journey and attach messages to it. It naturally will fly home. Consider that the birds were the first and fastest internet email of the time.
Another great video on a subject I am vaguely aware of but didn't too much about until now! And the part about the domestication of animals! Well researched & presented. On the whole, yet another fascinating video!
Thanks again, great info. I can see why its 'bell' shaped if the are collecting Guano. As well as being a great fertiliser, it can also be used as a binder for concret/Geo-polymers.
Thank you! I agree with you - the bell shapes make collecting guano easier. Good thought on the possible usage of guano as a binder - makes sense. Ancient Chinese also uses guano as a binder.
The only thing being the height of these plus the fact you'd get covered in poo from the above alcoves in the bell while feeding cleaning getting eggs from the lower birds, then there's the height, you'd need a heap of different ladders or a scaffold to reach half these alcoves, then there's the ones up a few stories. I think they may have some used them for housing them but I think they were already there and they only used them as they were very handy, at least the lower ones. Like we've always done, found a site (baalbeck) and thought, we can build a temple on that, then it gets destroyed in wars and the next religion builds on that (temple of soloman/temple mount for example). A lot of holy sites are built on top of other, older holy sites.
Tina, there are a few questions in my mind this morning 1) Tool marks, what kind of machine could make these, assuming no electricity to power the device? 2) working in a dark cave like area, what kind of lighting? If we had a brainstorming session on each, assuming no modern TECH, what could we come up with? If you have electrical power, what is the source? that is the million dollar question. You're doing a great job with your research, thanks.
Thank you Gary. I think if an ancient civilization had in fact developed complex machinery like we have in use today; then they would have also been capable of utilizing electricity or other power sources. The technological sophistication of this unknown civilization could have been on par with or even have surpassed ours in some aspects.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina the power supply doesn't make me wonder, it's the tiny passages that these machines have cut through. I can't think of another way of cutting through some of these tunnels, but to leave exact spacing between the scrapes is near impossible without a multiple toothed device. A small barrel roller attached to a "bobcat" type thing could probably do it these days. Then the other thing that bothers me about most of these quarries, caves dtc, they are completely void of waste. There's no rubble anywhere, the floors look swept clean, cutting the rock generates vast quantities of rubble and dust, then polishing leaves tiny dust particles, there does not seem to be any in these places like they were vacuumed. The floors are so flat. Whoever cut these was well advanced, they are much older than thought, as you said, repurposed by later people. We have been finding and using natural caves for thousands of years so only natural that we'd used these mega caves.
You might find Grimes graves Neolithic flint mine at Norfolk in England interesting. There we find both open cast & shaft mining together. Very similar in appearance to the sites you have shown us in this video. Though they weren't used after being abandoned as dovecotes. I'd say that the mines in your video are from the 5th, 4th or 3rd millennium b.c.e. Chalcolithic or bronze age.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Gary means a lost ancient civilization may have had build these caves with acoustic qualities intentionally like in sites in Petra, Ireland and Malta. The purpose is unknown. It would be interesting to learn if these acoustic effects are found at Chinese sites and caves as well.
@@ocker2000 Yes, that is a plausible thought. I haven't found Chinese sites with similar acoustic effects yet; but there are many new sites to be researched on. Exceptional acoustic quality might be another feature that came from a lost ancient civilization.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina The bell caves with the niches remind me of how an ancient Chinese bronze bell looks from the inside. The niches or indentations were intentionally made to increase resonance. This is an acoustic structure or even a device, if such a thing is possible! Incidentally, I think the Longyou Caverns look like acoustic chambers.
Glad to hear that, specially from a Geotechnical Engineer :-) Thanks for the information. A question, what do you think these bell caves were excavated for? I'm still pondering on it.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina i honestly can't think of a logical function for these caves. My intuition says not for humans but it has obviously been created by an advanced civilisation. This type of layout would be vulnerable from attack from above and not practical to enter and exit.
Thank you Tina for this video. There’s always so much knowledge learnt from your video! I didn’t know about the science behind domestication until seeing your video
My question is, a) how did they generate enough power to fuel the kind of machinery necessary to create such vast and probably functionally super-high-quality spaces? And b) What level of industrial capacity would be needed to build such machines and extract and direct whatever sources of power were used? My tentative conjecture is: something to do with electromagnetic fields, frequencies and energies...
Hi Tina, many thanks for your remarkable research, one of the best videos around according to me :)) I would like to share with everyone something you may already know. Oddly, i found that a population lived in Uzbekistan up to 8.000 years ago, in a city called Khiva. They were the (H)opis or Khopis. Their houses were much like these bell caves (even if simpler) and could be accessed from a hole placed above. They are linked with traditions of the northern american Hopi tribe. Their ancestors, the so called Anasazi, presumably were those who built those places called kivas by the Hopi in the southwestern States. And again the Hopi people talk about the Ant-People, living underground, feeding the men (survivors?) in times of need... What a coincidence.... :-) Kisses P.s. The domestication is one of the keys to our past truth indeed, we ourselves might have been domesticated by someone else....... great job...
Thank you for sharing your insights, Dario! I really appreciate it. I'm not aware of this ancient Uzbekistan population or their possible relationship with the Hopi people. What you said sounds very interesting - I will look this up! There are so many mysteries about our human species. I like what you said about domestication and "we ourselves might have been domesticated" - that's insightful. Thank you!
Hi TinA, another interesting episode. Have there been any academic or engineering studies into the techniques to carve out the caves? The patterns are remarkably similar so it would be interesting to know what a machine would have looked like, and what happened to them. Are no other traces left other than the carvings itself?
Thank you Roderik. I think 'such studies' are warranted though I haven't found any yet. Current day rotary mining machines create similar patterns/tool marks. If these caves were initially excavated by an advanced civilization, then the machinery used to create them could have been removed from the sites after the work was finished. A hypothesis states that 12,000 years ago a catastrophic event occurred on Planet Earth and wiped out most of civilization. There is some evidence supporting this hypothesis. If this did occur, then it likely wiped out the ancient machinery and other traces, except for the everlasting stone.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Or the ancient machinery eventually broke down & were melted down by later less advanced civilizations to make farming implements or weapons. Ultimate recycling!
In Minnesota, pigeons roost in silos, which are built out of concrete mostly, with tin domed lids. Also in barn cupilos and window sills etc. They look like the gray ones in your vid. Rock pigeons.
Interesting information, thank you! So it's natural for rock pigeons to make homes in dome-shaped structures. I wonder if it's due to their animal nature or the domestication...
If you visualize trying to chisel by hand the underground bell-shaped caves in Israel, you quickly realize it's almost impossible starting from the top, unless the rock is being ground into rubble. This, because there'd be no angle of approach by which to chisel out blocks underground. Nowhere to stand. Nowhere for the back of the chisel to extend. No space in which to swing the hammer. It's just not possible. In order to quarry a stone, there has to be some way of approaching the stone you want to remove before it is removed. But if they were grinding the stone to rubble with some machine like a big drill, then they won't need to stand anywhere down there, and there'd be no need for room for chisels to extend and hammers to swing. You'd just drill down with a grinding wheel, and then gradually rotate it around and around, hollowing out the space, frequently stopping to scooping out the rubble.
Great video, very informative on many little known ancient sites. Im sure this cave was once solid ground, then dug out from the top hole down, until it was hollowed out, like a giant termite colony.
Glad you liked it. Yes, these caves were carved from the top hole down. Interesting that you mentioned termite colony - Derinkuyu is somewhat like that too.
During the earliest life on earth, there were two suns in the sky, which added a weightlessness to the environment. There are also top holes in the caves in Turkey that scholars believe were for ventilation, however I assure you that the top holes were entrances, and the creators scurried in and out of the holes like giant ants, instinctively burrowing into the ground and doing something very special with the dirt removed.
I would first like to thank you very much for the diversification you have recently brought to my intake of ancient civilization information browsing. The honest, intelligent and challenging fashion in which you pose conflicting theories to the status quo or "accepted" history is something I enjoy watching you do. Your research is sound. Your theories engaging. Thank you. Do more. We need another female voice with something to say in this genre.
I personally saw the parts of the Bell Caves in the ‘90’s and was totally amazed! However, the parts I saw had no pidgin nooks . . . so I wonder how do we know these weren’t added at a later time? Regardless, you made some great observations and posed some really good questions on the design and digging of those structures . . . as well as the origins of animal domestication.
Thank you Derrell. It seems that not all bell caves have the small niches...? I envy you seeing these caves in person. Hope I can visit them one day. Btw hope you can check out my other videos as well!
Hi there. Probably used for farming Guano? It is very important in agriculture. What do you think? Could the top have been an outlet for methane? Iv'e seen those wall markings many, many times.
Yes, it could very well be. I read that the Iranians used to export guano to Europe as a fertilizer. The same tool marks are prevalent on many ancient sites. Possibly a global civilization was the original creator of them.
I believe these mined/caves are about 25k yo adapted to living quarters after a big rock hit Iceland, the survivors spent 10ky recording the procession and more. Then a solar flare cooked large swaths of the planet and again the caves provided shelter, information pass down. Now our prehistory begins. Prove me right Tina or show me how. Great videos..
It's possible that they are over 20k years old. I made a video on the human population bottleneck - hope you will find it interesting: 20-15,000 Years Ago When Humans Faced Extinction - the Ending of a Previous Advanced Civilization? th-cam.com/video/Zs4zLKbp4Ic/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for another amazing video Tina👍 i woid like to ask you, if you could allow subtitles for better undertaking of more visitors and followers, pls sweetheart ❤ Imagine your audience is like students who need to have time to understand what your are talking about...you're pretty fast.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina thanks a lot, but i could open just English ... but I mean as many languages as you could... as i see at many other youtubers I don't know if it's possible...at your videos. Thank you so much
@@evalesko4613 Oh I got it. Thank you Eva! I would like to add more languages for sure... though I only know two languages... Even if I use Google translate to translate my narratives, I still need to paste each sentence in; I couldn't do a good job with a language that is unknown to me...
It may not be well known, but doves were one of the most common sacrificial animals. Temples stood on every corner at the time, and there were many gods. The consumption of pigeons must have been huge.
at 5:27 picture to the right (Maresha). The striation in the opening here starts at the very top and curves to the bottom. You cannot get a pickaxe or hammer and chisel starting at the top. Either the striations would be done afterwards for astatic reason or a different tool was used.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina you are touching on genetic manipulation so have you done much research on the possibility of human genetic manipulation. Also someone else mentioned the enumah Elise. That is a fantastic story which seems to describe the creation of out solar system. Also....one fascinating part of it....the god enki(Neptune) put the god Anu (the sun) to sleep. I wonder if that is referring to our possible binary twin sun some researchers are suggesting. Interesting stuff. You present in a great method thanks.
@@bok2bok333 The ancient texts must have contained a lot of truth... I haven't done much research on the possibility of human genetic manipulation. It'll be an interesting topic to study.
My doubts : 1. It should have marks of excretion from pigeons everywhere if the niches were used for keeping pigeons. 2. What is the importance of pigeons to the people living thousands years ago bother to make such sophisticated caves？
Thank you for the comment. I had the doubts as well. I found a paper on similar caves in Jordan provided evidence on pigeon excretion. Also there are still some pigeons living inside the Maresha caves which shows dropping marks. Pigeon droppings were used and traded as valuable fertilizers for a long period of time. The bell shaped caves with niches do make excretion collecting easier... It is fascinating that ancient people built these structures to raise pigeons, or did they? I'm not completely sure.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina In the modern world, despite all the new communications technologies, pigeons have been used to send messages over long distances for centuries. It is a safe, efficient and secure way of keeping in touch with others and sharing information.
Oh Tina, it was so good watching this, especially the segment about the domestication of animals. I've been thinking about this for a while and have asked similar questions to yours (i.e. possible DNA manipulations). I also think that some of the answers to these questions might be "documented" in Gobekli Tepe. Even more interesting is our own "domestication". Given that scientists now recognize that we are a hybrid species, it begs the questions: of what and by what means? ;-) This channel rocks!!
she answered it with the sumerian connection.. the sumerians were taught all knowledge, by our creators. watch. sumerian tablet vids, viper tv.. we were genetically engineered.. & taught how to farm.. we were our creators slaves. till they left. 13,000 yrs ago,+ -. ish.. some stayed to rebuild human civilization,after the flood..made,to wipe us out.. !..
Moreover, if you look at the Ankwor Wat reliefs which depicts humans utilizing rhinoceros (an ornery animal) as a domesticated animal in battle illustrates the domesticating capacities of the ancient civilizations. Additionally the fact that Indra the Hindu "deity" rides a four tusk elephant (gomphotheres) extinct after the Cataclysmic event of the Younger Dryas speaks by itself about domestication in the ancient pre-Younger Dryas civilizations.
The machine tool marks in some of those caves are in some pretty tight spots. I suspect small powered personal units, like a gas powered drill i used to use. Like a chainsaw engine with s big drill bit on it.
I agree. I found some ancient megalithic sites with very small entryways which indicate that the original builders had compact and powerful tools, such as this one: th-cam.com/video/UutXy0H5ZYY/w-d-xo.html
Genetic interference with DNA to breed dogs from the Russian Wolf? Yes, I think so. A parallel to this is the development of ALL the grains we use in farming today from a single type of grass which only grew in Central America and nowhere else. A previous civilization of the highest art, capable of directing the human race towards agriculture; also building henges to assist decision making as to when crops should be planted, harvested, etc.
Alternate uses for niches: 1. for storing scrolls 2. for storing bones/ashes of the deceased. If it was for pigeons, there must be some poop that they can date...
The niches are pretty small and shallow so probably they were not made for storing scrolls or bones, maybe for ashes. Guano was used as a good fertilizer in ancient times, so maybe the pigeon poop could be taken away already...
Good point that the doves usage could simply be repurposing of the caves/mines. It could also be 2 independent rising and then declining, then rising again eras between the caves creation, and then domestication events 🤷🏻♂️. The tail doesn't wag the dog lol... 👍👍🙏👍👍
I hear so much about humans domesticating animals, but they never talk about how it was done or if it is even happening today. Are we domesticating animals today, or are we just using the ones that have been domesticated thousands of years ago?
Domestication is a long topic... If tamable is the threshold of "domestication", then a lot of animals which are captive-bred can be considered "domesticated". Most recent (within 200 years) "domesticated" animals are domesticated hedgehogs and other smaller animals. The thing is that many animals are friendly and even protective of other animals in the wild. Can we consider that such animals are also domesticated to each other?
The parallel gouge marks do suggest a technologically advanced excavation method requiring machines and a culture with such capabilities should certainly be capable of domesticating wild doves. However, where did the removed material go? Was it deposited on the surface or was it used to make something?
It is quite remarkable the fact that you have pointed out similar tool markings in the walls of several geographically distant ancient sites. This in turn speaks of a shared technology for quarrying rock formations that spans from the middle east to Japan, suggesting a common civilization. Egypt has not evidence of this peculiar tool markings suggesting a different culture and technology more akin to the ones in the ancient Americas.
So beautiful! Imagine living in such a place!! Were there dangerous influxes of radiation from space such as from a relatively close super nova back in those times that motivated people all over to dig caves? We can only hope that some day we might find the remains of the fantastic machines that were used to make them..
Pigeons could have domesticated themselves. The selection occurring between those who come to people and those who fly away. The most tame get the most food from people.
Fascinating and well presented. Some people do not want new thought as they think it makes them wrong. Which is a shame as it suppress so much knowledge. How to not make them wrong and yet progress?
Whether I am here now or I was 10,000 years ago, I would definitely be interested in interacting with animals. That’s my nature, curious being too 😉 Thank you 🙏🏼 for your research 🙏🏼
I guess that maybe because of many disasters in the past like floods etcetera may have led to some animals finding refuge with people and survived while many other animals of their kind died out...and so leaving the animals that stayed with the people during those hard times to grow into seperate groups of animals with different behavioures and even genetic changes. I read that genetic changes may occur faster when only a small and isolatet part of the population survives a disaster. Because then any and every small genetic mutition will be carried easily through the whole population and if beneficial will stay and then it can excellerate the change very rapidly.
Read a DNA report recently that suggested there were about 18 billion people around 22 thousand years ago. About 18000 years ago there were less than 10000 people world wide. My burning question is - how did 18b people get up every morning and go “hunter gathering”! For breakfast? Maybe farming and domesticated herding is much older. Maybe civilization is much older. Love to have your thoughts. Where did the homes of 18 billion people go? Everybody in a tent? I just can’t believe that. Maybe the report and isn’t accurate and we need more information. Certainly made me think and now my head hurts. Interesting that at the time of the younger dryas end there was not a significant human population decline. Seemingly animals were most affected. We have to look a few thousand years earlier to find a mass extinction of humans. We were nearly wiped out - according to this report. Wonder what happened? Noahs flood? Disease? I can’t find any information discussing whether or not animal and plant life also faced catastrophic depopulation at that time.
Thank you very much for the information, Dan! I'm really interested in this DNA report and I searched online but haven't found this study. Would you please let me know the name or other key words of this report? The 22,000-year-old timeline actually works with one of my hypotheses that an advanced civilization collapsed during the HS1 event from 20,000 -15,000 years ago. I made a video on this period because according to DNA studies there was a human population bottleneck during that period: When Humans Faced Extinction - the Ending of a Previous Advanced Civilization? th-cam.com/video/Zs4zLKbp4Ic/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the video,, it was very informative and love the pictures as well. I live in nevada ,, i haven’t had the means to travel to any ancient cave or megalithic site. Do you know of a similar cave or old civilization site that might be closer to me that i might be able to visit ?
Thanks Jimmy. Bandelier National Monument in New Mexico has cave dwellings and steps carved in rock. Hope it's not too far for you to visit? I showed some of its images in this video: th-cam.com/video/qwzgaBpXa28/w-d-xo.html
If you where to go deep in a cave a bird would be handy. A dove would tell you if the oxygen level was to low to breath the dove would die and warn the humans c to leave. They also used canaries in Coal Mine
Tina, great video, thank you! Very useful information about the dove/pidgeon domestication history. One thing that bothers me when looking at all these sites across the globe which had different shaped small holes in the walls: Why would a developed, highly capable anciant civilisation, which is able to carve hundreds of caves in the stone (which today's cultures and nations can't and don't even try to do) need to live together with doves and pidgeons? Did they have problems with finding enough food and fertilizers? That seems unlikely if you consider that they are highly skilled and powerful people based on their advanced dwellings. In other words, would you like to live together with hundred of birds in the same room, listen to their cooing and smell them all the time? I lived with 4 doves in the house for 8 years and was always closing their cage in a separate room because of the sound and smell. Now think about hundreds of these birds in the same house, without doors! Doesn't look like life of a highly developed civilisation. The idea that the holes are made for birds doesn't seem likely to me at all. Keep doing these great videos, thanks!
Domes as you mentioned are cooler. along the same line mining in a dome would not be weather dependent. They probably hired submarine sailors to do the mining because they do not posses the gene for survival. Just give enough beer and they will do anything. You also mentioned they mined the chalk in blocks but judging by the tool marks they weren't getting blocks. They probably had their wives make wicker baskets to carry out the rubble.
16:30 Well, ancient documents indicate genetic manipulation did happen. Then look at the carvings that depict chimeras like the ones at the Baodingshan and Dazu Rock Carvings. Yes indeed, the megalithic time period was much different than today and might I add just scary.
Ancient records from many countries tell of a great flood--which occurred several millennia in the past. Researchers have varied thoughts about the degree of technology that existed before this flood. Most evidence would have been buried or obliterated by the flood, so it is hard to know, but more evidence is coming to light as we dig deeper; I'm convinced that the level of technology at that time was advanced.
You are amazing, more things i didn't know. Every video you have something new for me i haven't seen or heard of before and i've read so much and watched a lot of videos. I knew of these caves and the niches, i didn't know the style were found in France. I don't know about the pigeon breeding. In the dome walls anyway, Some of the holes are way too high and having them in an arch makes no sense, you would be getting covered in bird poo getting eggs etc out of the lower cages and they could have straightened out the walls lower without affecting the strength. I wonder what the accoustics are like in there? Also i didn't see many "torch marks" from lanterns or fires anywhere.
The other thing that gets me about these sites underground, mohenjo daro etc, is the logistics of feeding, cleaning and housing (individual rooms? Surely thered be something left behind, but these places seem cleaned) the massive amount of people that lived there.
Thank you for sharing your insights! These are valid points. It is interesting that some niches are on the very top and some are at the bottom. The dome/bell shape does have very good acoustics and concerts have been played in the bell caves.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina that would have been amazing. I wonder if the sound travelled through the entire system. Like the "Oracle room.". Thank you for taking the time to reply. It must keep you incredibly busy. 🤔. You'd make a fascinating guest at a dinner party. 😊
Tool hardness versus work hardness Hardness in tool bit is always at least a fraction harder than the work piece any time in ancient and present. The softer the work material the less force we needs to shape the work surface. We either - conveniently assume there were advanced and heavy duty machinery in ancient times responsible for the cave wall striations - or bite the bullet, to find a way to explain it. The bullet hypothesis : What if the ancient people had only softer tool and muscle force is what they have? Assuming they complete the work we see today. The one and only one way that can be accomplished is that work material have hardness varies from soft to hard, in a chemical process. If that is OK with you, we may assume the cave walls began soft - like hardness of chalk. All ancient men need was a construction plan to work out a carving process. Tool format? Their tool bits were format like a comb with one or more handles driven by one or more operators. Retaining wall hypothesis : To retaining wall with polygonal fittings - they need geopolymer concrete mixed in a consistency that flow like lava. Pour the wet concrete in between two adjacent blocks and on top of previously set hardened blocks one level down. It will flow into the targeted void to form three seamless joints. At the end of a wall they use a wood panel as a single side mold. Also noted they geopolymer concrete expand as it harden, evidently form ballooning blocks, ballooning may be a problem. As the block shell get hardening sooner it’s half dry core continue expand that would blow out the shell and collapse the block, with core material spill on the construction site - is a problem. The priest would then puncture the half hard shell with a sphere or blade necessary to bleed excess material in a controlled manner. Usually one puncture is suffice other times two to three is required. The puncture also responsible for the famous stone “belly button” or knobs.
Tina, you're right and on the right track concerning domestication of animals by humans for various purposes. Selective breeding has been around since prehistory, and revived over and over as human civilization recovered from various global catastrophies. Animals were always selectively bred for strength and work, agility in battle, tender flesh for food, companionship, protection and so on. People noticed certain qualities in the animals and birds, rewarded them and a bond formed of mutual benefit. Of course not everyone did it well, some people did things with brute force and cruel control. Even today many who work with, breed, or train animals rethink the way they should go about it. Like ranchers or horse tamers etc.
The hypothesis of a (or several) prehistoric developed civilization that had the tools to genetically engineer the animals to domesticate them and the machinery/tools for the construction of those caves, could be posible but where are other evidences of their origen? is it all lost because of time and climate? Do we need to dig deeper?, literately. Interesting videos, thank you Curious Being.
Thank you for sharing your insights. I made two videos on the possible demise of the previous advanced civilization. I hope you will find them interesting: Was an Advanced Civilization Wiped Out by a 12,800-Year-old Comet at Younger Dryas? th-cam.com/video/4XXV3Ax3KO4/w-d-xo.html When Humans Faced Extinction - the Ending of a Previous Advanced Civilization? th-cam.com/video/Zs4zLKbp4Ic/w-d-xo.html
You might find the book of Enoch interesting. Dove's were also used as a standard sacrificial sin offering in the ancient Levant region. The herring bone pattern in the drift, show us that the worker moved repetitively from one side to the other back & forth using hand tools.
Nice video. As a side note, I have hunted and ate dove. It is a rather dry and bland meat. Many people will wrap it with bacon and stick a pepper on the inside, then grill it. Yum!
Dear Tina, it is the place of most counterfeit art and artefacts in the world. There was a horse-drawn nomadic people that occupied part of Egypt. There he built a new capital city called Avaris. Later, when they were beaten out by the Egyptians, they went to what is now Israel and built a city there. They surrounded it with a wall and built a church on top of the mountain. Named Hierosolyma / Hero Falcon / today it is the city of Jerusalem. Time passes before Christ 450 was a desert robbers not yet a unified people, no religion known JHWH.. According to Ethiopian documents. So I'm sure there can't be a Jewish find before this time.
I wish you would have been my History teacher back in school.
I have learnt much more watching your videos than I ever learnt in school.
And you are so beautiful not at all like my History teacher back then.
Keep uploading these great videos so we all can learn more about our past.
Thank you so much for the support! Much appreciated ☺
@@CuriousBeingbyTinaYes! Tina is very special and I would love it if would do a lecture tour to meet her in person..
An absolutely awesome, concise, well put together video, with beautiful pictures and narrator! Should have been much cooler temps for the pigeons underground. Thank You for mind opening video 💝
Thank you Chris! Glad you enjoyed my videos :-)
Very interesting study.
In regard to the domed structure of the caves with the hole at the top. They remind me of what are called Nuraghe on the island of Sardinia in the Mediterranean. Several thousand are known to exist and while many are in ruins some still retain most of their domed or beehive shaped interior chambers with a hole at the top. They do not contain the many small niches but I have seen multiple that have larger trapezoidal niches inside. They are believed to have been constructed by the Nuragic civilization starting around 1,800 BC but this is merely more mainstream archaeological supposition. In fact someone recently posted a video on facebook of a hike into the Caucasus mountains in Russia, near Georgia. The man came across a stone structure that nothing is officially known about. It bares a striking resemblance to the Nuraghe with large lintels over the doorways, an identical beehive interior with hole at the top and at least one niche is seen inside in the shadows. Not only do I suspect this structure is related to the Nuraghe but also to the domed/bell caves in this video of yours. The true antiquity of all of them is not known. They resemble ancient structures such as the so called Treasury of Atreus in Mycenae and The Barabar caves in India in general design, but the two forementioned structures do not have holes in their domes.
I don't know whether or not pidgeon domestican was originally the work of an advanced civilization in prehistory. Animal husbandry seems rather primitive to me. We see ourselves as advanced now with our exploding factory animal farming operations and ongoing DNA research but in many ways we are still very very primitive. DNA study and manipulation is advanced when compared to a hunter gatherer lifestyle but is essentially abusive if not delved into with high standards and strict ethics. The implication in the word "advanced" does not in and of itself equate to *honorable*. To me, advanced methods of sustainment of the physical body would extend beyond the domestication animals, but would go far deeper than that. Developing methods of sustainment that extract vital nutrients in the most non-invasive and non-abusive ways. To even formulate nutritionally perfect synthetic alternatives to eating the flesh, eggs and consuming the fluids of other creatures. A unity of science and spirit. Transcending the lower nature. Of course, creatures consume other creatures on Earth. Everything dies and is reborn. Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only harnessed and transformed.
I trust that our lost ancient advanced civilization, or at least a faction of them......had a highly developed moral compass and pushed beyond the limits of third dimensional perception in extraordinary ways.
We are not the physical body.
Thank you for the insightful comments.
It is interesting that you mentioned Nuraghe civilization. I was gathering information for the Chinese stone tombs and came across some stone chambers from Nuraghe civilization. I thought the Chinese tombs seem to share some similarities with the Nuraghe chambers.
I didn’t know that the Caucasus Mountains in Russia have structures as you described. Could you please share the video if you can find it? I am very curious. There may be more mysterious stone structures in Russia and other countries along the Black Sea.
I agree that we are probably still at the infantile stage of advanced civilizations. From what I read, currently we are too focused and limited to the material world and not utilizing our real abilities. We are not mere physical bodies but spiritual beings. At a higher conscious level, thought and morality have power and more so than physical strength.
I like your theory that “our lost ancient advanced civilization or at least a faction of them......had a highly developed moral compass and pushed beyond the limits of third dimensional perception in extraordinary ways.” That coincides with Plato: 'As for those genealogies of yours which you have related to us, they are no better than tales of children; for in the first place, you remember one deluge only, whereas there were a number of them. And in the next place there dwelt in your land, which you do not know, the fairest and noblest race of men that ever lived of which you are but a seed or remnant. And this was not known to you because for many generations the survivors of that destruction made no records.'
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Here is a link to the video of the structure found in the Caucasus that resembles the Nuraghe
m.facebook.com/groups/8640515501?view=permalink&id=10158470956735502
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Oh there are many fascinating structures in the Caucasus! The megalithic structures called dolmens (translates to "portal tomb") are fascinating. There are thousands in the caucasus alone and many thousands in a variety of forms all over the Eastern hemisphere. Many of them are constructed of large slabs of stone as walls with a large slab on top very well fitted together and many are built with precision cut stacked stone mortarless construction, but there are many that are cut right into bedrock. They have very curious round portals cut or shaped into the front. Many of them still have stone plugs for the portal hole still on the ground around them. They are presumed to be "neolithic era tombs" due to the dating of the remains found in or near them but I believe neolithic era people simply found them and used them as places of burial. No one knows how old they actually are, who erected them or what their purpose was. The majority of the portal holes are too small for a human bigger than a child to fit into. Neolithic people lived in mud huts and were challenged enough to work with wood. To suggest they erected the structures is silly. There is no sign of a quarry anywhere near the dolmen found in the Caucasus.
I was very excited to find a dolmen in the Caucasus that has a precision fit mortarless megalithic wall forming an enclosure around its front. On the blocks and on the slab that makes up the foundation of the dolmen there are several of the increasingly famous "knobs"/protrusions that are found on so many ancient megalithic structures across the globe and that ties the dolmens to this lost civilization. There must be a specific purpose for those knobs.
Yes, presently as a collective humanity is still in an infantile stage. Materialism and excessive focus on externals has us hostage to our own lower nature. Our true advancement comes from within, not outside ourselves and I have a strong suspicion that we will find this is something the ancients who were responsible for these structures knew at a profound level. We view writing as advanced and mainstream academics use the development of writing as a marker for an advancing civilization, but I beg to differ. From a higher state of consciousness communication is telepathic and memory is stronger. I suspect to some extent we developed writing because we devolved into a lower state of being, where organizing externally became necessary. Cut off from the light within. Making it more challenging for most to see beyond the flesh......and so entered modern religions. It is curious that in Hinduism the beginning of The Kali Yuga (The Age Of Darkness) is believed to have begun in 3,200 BC. The lowest of the four Yuga cycles. A cycle of time in which virtue is at its lowest in humankind. Described as a very challenging age where materialism, avarice, deceitfulness and general ill intention are the norm and real virtue and principal are rare. The Mayan Long Count calendar began in 3114 BC and Dynastic Egypt sprung up around 3,000 BC with Sumeria approximately a few centuries before. Interesting that so much globally was emphasized during that window of time. The Kings lists in Egypt and Sumeria record Kings that ruled for thousands of years beyond that point. An Egyptian Kings list goes back 36,000 years, a full processional cycle and a half back. Though academia only recognizes the 1st mortal King of the 1st dynasty in Old Kingdom Egypt and regards the prior 'god kings' as myth. Were they myth or were they surviving records of a forgotten time when a highly advanced civilization existed on Earth? The Dynastic Egyptians regarded themselves not as a pioneering civilization, but as a legacy, and they spoke of a time called "Zep Tepi" which translates to "The first time".....
@@MrZayne8 Thank you! This is an exciting site.
@@MrZayne8 We are on a similar searching path I was gathering information on dolmens - seems they dotted the coastlines of Eurasia. The portal dolmens with the curious round openings on the front stone slabs look quite ancient. I agree that Neolithic people found these structures and utilized them but they were not the original creators. Korea and Japan have a great number of dolmens, though they don’t have the round openings. There is very limited information on dolmens in China. I will in the future do a video to introduce the Chinese dolmen sites.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, which I found very interesting and profound. The human race could be highly advanced and capable of telepathic communication, though somehow over time we lost the knowledge of our real history and our intrinsic abilities. Human spirits are way more powerful than physical strength and they don’t decline with age.
I wonder whether there is a connection with Hindu golden age (Satya Yuga) and the Greek Golden Age because the descriptions of the two have a lot in common. In both golden ages, all people are saintly, long living, powerfully built, honest, youthful, vigorous, erudite and virtuous. Hinduism and Greek mythology both state that currently we are in the worst age, Kali Yuga or the Iron Age. People become slaves to their passions and are barely as powerful as their earliest ancestors in the golden age. Knowledge is lost and scriptures diminished…
Waddell’s chronology has a list of comparison on the Sumerian King’s list with the Hindu King gods. To me many, the gods’ names share striking similarities. Here is the link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waddell%27s_chronology
“Waddell's primary chronology was compiled from various Sumerian king lists, Egyptian list of pharaohs, the Bhagavata Purana, Mahabharata, Rigveda and numerous Indus Valley Civilization seals and other monuments and relics and sources, some of which he had deciphered himself”.
Thanks for bring the bell caves to my attention keep up good work Tina in highlighting mystery of world.
My pleasure 😊 thank you for the support, Oscar.
What I wonder is how many more sites are buried around the world. Many sites where discovered by accident and archaeologists have to invent new kings and warlords to explain their construction.
There are certainly many sites yet to be discovered - both buried underground and underwater. With new advancing technology, the ability to find and uncover these sites will shine new light onto these mysteries and help with our research.
This video just popped up In my TH-cam feed. I missed this. Excellent work Tina. I learnedly so much from your video! I knew little of these caves.
Glad that you liked this video! Thank you for the support, John :-) I really appreciate it!
I appreciate all the work you have put into your videos. I’ve been in involved video projects and I know they require a lot of work just on the production end, but your videos contains many photos, diagrams and in person commentary (this episode is my favorite, because so much information was presented of which I knew nothing. Not to mention a nice wardrobe choice😀), that is presented in a very scholarly manner, which obviously entails much research, and then needs a script written to clearly state your thesis. I really enjoyed this episode.
Tina, you may be the most knowledgeable person I’ve ever watched on TH-cam! How do you know all of this??
I'm flattered :-) Thank you for the support. I'm just a curious person.
This channel is going to go very big.
I hope so - thank you for the support 😃
Love your videos and channel. Never disappointing and always interesting/educational. Great work!
Awesome, thank you!
@@CuriousBeingbyTina yes I’ve seen everyone. Always good and well done. Really good researching
Pigeons and doves are very useful in sending messages quickly. You bring your pigeons with you on a journey and attach messages to it. It naturally will fly home. Consider that the birds were the first and fastest internet email of the time.
That's very true.
Another great video on a subject I am vaguely aware of but didn't too much about until now! And the part about the domestication of animals! Well researched & presented. On the whole, yet another fascinating video!
Thank you Andrew! I enjoy reading your comments :-)
Tina, you may be the most knowledgeable person I’ve ever watched on TH-cam! How do you know all of this??
Excellent content Tina, ....... as always!
Thank you!
Thanks again, great info. I can see why its 'bell' shaped if the are collecting Guano. As well as being a great fertiliser, it can also be used as a binder for concret/Geo-polymers.
Thank you! I agree with you - the bell shapes make collecting guano easier. Good thought on the possible usage of guano as a binder - makes sense. Ancient Chinese also uses guano as a binder.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina And when introduced with slaked lime from oyster shells, what do we get?
Iv'e been trying to get hold of you to talk about something. How do I do that?
@@ancientbuilds3764 Yes? You can add me on Instagram: tenthousandt
The only thing being the height of these plus the fact you'd get covered in poo from the above alcoves in the bell while feeding cleaning getting eggs from the lower birds, then there's the height, you'd need a heap of different ladders or a scaffold to reach half these alcoves, then there's the ones up a few stories. I think they may have some used them for housing them but I think they were already there and they only used them as they were very handy, at least the lower ones. Like we've always done, found a site (baalbeck) and thought, we can build a temple on that, then it gets destroyed in wars and the next religion builds on that (temple of soloman/temple mount for example). A lot of holy sites are built on top of other, older holy sites.
Thanks for your Chanel, very interesting content!!
Glad you enjoy it! Welcome :-)
Tina, luv your thoughts on the history of all our lives. I'll be watching your videos for sure.
Thank you for the support, Mike!
Tina, there are a few questions in my mind this morning 1) Tool marks, what kind of machine could make these, assuming no electricity to power the device? 2) working in a dark cave like area, what kind of lighting? If we had a brainstorming session on each, assuming no modern TECH, what could we come up with? If you have electrical power, what is the source? that is the million dollar question. You're doing a great job with your research, thanks.
Thank you Gary. I think if an ancient civilization had in fact developed complex machinery like we have in use today; then they would have also been capable of utilizing electricity or other power sources. The technological sophistication of this unknown civilization could have been on par with or even have surpassed ours in some aspects.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina the power supply doesn't make me wonder, it's the tiny passages that these machines have cut through. I can't think of another way of cutting through some of these tunnels, but to leave exact spacing between the scrapes is near impossible without a multiple toothed device. A small barrel roller attached to a "bobcat" type thing could probably do it these days. Then the other thing that bothers me about most of these quarries, caves dtc, they are completely void of waste. There's no rubble anywhere, the floors look swept clean, cutting the rock generates vast quantities of rubble and dust, then polishing leaves tiny dust particles, there does not seem to be any in these places like they were vacuumed. The floors are so flat. Whoever cut these was well advanced, they are much older than thought, as you said, repurposed by later people. We have been finding and using natural caves for thousands of years so only natural that we'd used these mega caves.
Extremely compelling! Very thorough work, Tina.
Thank you Ellen! Hope you will enjoy my other videos as well :-)
Love your channel I’m a new subscriber. I totally agree with you on prior advanced civilization
Welcome aboard! Thank you for the support :-)
You might find Grimes graves Neolithic flint mine at Norfolk in England interesting. There we find both open cast & shaft mining together. Very similar in appearance to the sites you have shown us in this video. Though they weren't used after being abandoned as dovecotes. I'd say that the mines in your video are from the 5th, 4th or 3rd millennium b.c.e. Chalcolithic or bronze age.
Top down lime mining must have been conducted in preference to open pit mining, due to it being cooler underground.
could of been cooler back then, .?.who knows,it cant be aged. could be 50k old..
Hi Tina, maybe
those bell caves were primarily designed and shaped to have resonant and acoustic properties.
Yes, these bell caves have great acoustics. Concerts have been held inside them.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Gary means a lost ancient civilization may have had build these caves with acoustic qualities intentionally like in sites in Petra, Ireland and Malta. The purpose is unknown. It would be interesting to learn if these acoustic effects are found at Chinese sites and caves as well.
@@ocker2000 Yes, that is a plausible thought. I haven't found Chinese sites with similar acoustic effects yet; but there are many new sites to be researched on. Exceptional acoustic quality might be another feature that came from a lost ancient civilization.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina The bell caves with the niches remind me of how an ancient Chinese bronze bell looks from the inside. The niches or indentations were intentionally made to increase resonance. This is an acoustic structure or even a device, if such a thing is possible! Incidentally, I think the Longyou Caverns look like acoustic chambers.
Ya the markings are always so familiar, world wide machining! Wild! Beautiful caves, another great documentary Tina👍thank you🙏
I totally agree bell pits wouldn't be used to quarry soft limestone. I'm a Geotechnical Engineer BTW.
Glad to hear that, specially from a Geotechnical Engineer :-) Thanks for the information. A question, what do you think these bell caves were excavated for? I'm still pondering on it.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina i honestly can't think of a logical function for these caves. My intuition says not for humans but it has obviously been created by an advanced civilisation. This type of layout would be vulnerable from attack from above and not practical to enter and exit.
Thank you Tina for this video. There’s always so much knowledge learnt from your video! I didn’t know about the science behind domestication until seeing your video
I'm glad that you find my videos interesting. Thanks Yi Wen.
I had no idea how widespread this type of cave system is. I subscribed after this video. Good work, Tina.
Once again, awesome research… and love that top!
Thank you!
You becoming my favorite place to learn something new. Great job
Thank you so much for the continuous support! :-)
My question is, a) how did they generate enough power to fuel the kind of machinery necessary to create such vast and probably functionally super-high-quality spaces? And b) What level of industrial capacity would be needed to build such machines and extract and direct whatever sources of power were used?
My tentative conjecture is: something to do with electromagnetic fields, frequencies and energies...
Hi Tina, many thanks for your remarkable research, one of the best videos around according to me :))
I would like to share with everyone something you may already know. Oddly, i found that a population lived in Uzbekistan up to 8.000 years ago, in a city called Khiva. They were the (H)opis or Khopis. Their houses were much like these bell caves (even if simpler) and could be accessed from a hole placed above. They are linked with traditions of the northern american Hopi tribe. Their ancestors, the so called Anasazi, presumably were those who built those places called kivas by the Hopi in the southwestern States. And again the Hopi people talk about the Ant-People, living underground, feeding the men (survivors?) in times of need... What a coincidence.... :-) Kisses P.s. The domestication is one of the keys to our past truth indeed, we ourselves might have been domesticated by someone else....... great job...
Thank you for sharing your insights, Dario! I really appreciate it. I'm not aware of this ancient Uzbekistan population or their possible relationship with the Hopi people. What you said sounds very interesting - I will look this up! There are so many mysteries about our human species. I like what you said about domestication and "we ourselves might have been domesticated" - that's insightful. Thank you!
Hi TinA, another interesting episode. Have there been any academic or engineering studies into the techniques to carve out the caves? The patterns are remarkably similar so it would be interesting to know what a machine would have looked like, and what happened to them. Are no other traces left other than the carvings itself?
Thank you Roderik. I think 'such studies' are warranted though I haven't found any yet. Current day rotary mining machines create similar patterns/tool marks. If these caves were initially excavated by an advanced civilization, then the machinery used to create them could have been removed from the sites after the work was finished. A hypothesis states that 12,000 years ago a catastrophic event occurred on Planet Earth and wiped out most of civilization. There is some evidence supporting this hypothesis. If this did occur, then it likely wiped out the ancient machinery and other traces, except for the everlasting stone.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Or the ancient machinery eventually broke down & were melted down by later less advanced civilizations to make farming implements or weapons. Ultimate recycling!
In Minnesota, pigeons roost in silos, which are built out of concrete mostly, with tin domed lids.
Also in barn cupilos and window sills etc.
They look like the gray ones in your vid. Rock pigeons.
Interesting information, thank you! So it's natural for rock pigeons to make homes in dome-shaped structures. I wonder if it's due to their animal nature or the domestication...
Great job! I love the new material! Way to get all of us thinking again! Thank you 🙏 ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you! :-)
Great content.
Thank you. Hope you can check out my other videos as well :-)
Tina, your posts are very welcome to my TH-cam subscriptions... No hysterical speculation nor off the charts stupidity...
Thanks for the great job 👍
Thank you for watching my videos :-) I appreciate it.
If you visualize trying to chisel by hand the underground bell-shaped caves in Israel, you quickly realize it's almost impossible starting from the top, unless the rock is being ground into rubble. This, because there'd be no angle of approach by which to chisel out blocks underground. Nowhere to stand. Nowhere for the back of the chisel to extend. No space in which to swing the hammer. It's just not possible. In order to quarry a stone, there has to be some way of approaching the stone you want to remove before it is removed.
But if they were grinding the stone to rubble with some machine like a big drill, then they won't need to stand anywhere down there, and there'd be no need for room for chisels to extend and hammers to swing. You'd just drill down with a grinding wheel, and then gradually rotate it around and around, hollowing out the space, frequently stopping to scooping out the rubble.
Great video, very informative on many little known ancient sites. Im sure this cave was once solid ground, then dug out from the top hole down, until it was hollowed out, like a giant termite colony.
Glad you liked it. Yes, these caves were carved from the top hole down. Interesting that you mentioned termite colony - Derinkuyu is somewhat like that too.
During the earliest life on earth, there were two suns in the sky, which added a weightlessness to the environment. There are also top holes in the caves in Turkey that scholars believe were for ventilation, however I assure you that the top holes were entrances, and the creators scurried in and out of the holes like giant ants, instinctively burrowing into the ground and doing something very special with the dirt removed.
@@Wilsignu eh? Explain.
I really love your videos.
I'm so glad! Thank you :-)
You are thorough Tina
Thanks Matthew
thank you. good video, like your channel.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for sharing
Thanks for watching! Hope you will enjoy my other videos too.
I would first like to thank you very much for the diversification you have recently brought to my intake of ancient civilization information browsing.
The honest, intelligent and challenging fashion in which you pose conflicting theories to the status quo or "accepted" history is something I enjoy watching you do.
Your research is sound.
Your theories engaging.
Thank you.
Do more.
We need another female voice with something to say in this genre.
Thank you for the support, Will. I really appreciate it!
I personally saw the parts of the Bell Caves in the ‘90’s and was totally amazed! However, the parts I saw had no pidgin nooks . . . so I wonder how do we know these weren’t added at a later time? Regardless, you made some great observations and posed some really good questions on the design and digging of those structures . . . as well as the origins of animal domestication.
Thank you Derrell. It seems that not all bell caves have the small niches...? I envy you seeing these caves in person. Hope I can visit them one day. Btw hope you can check out my other videos as well!
Hi there. Probably used for farming Guano? It is very important in agriculture. What do you think? Could the top have been an outlet for methane? Iv'e seen those wall markings many, many times.
Yes, it could very well be. I read that the Iranians used to export guano to Europe as a fertilizer. The same tool marks are prevalent on many ancient sites. Possibly a global civilization was the original creator of them.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Yes, I sent you a message. I hope you got it.
I believe these mined/caves are about 25k yo adapted to living quarters after a big rock hit Iceland, the survivors spent 10ky recording the procession and more. Then a solar flare cooked large swaths of the planet and again the caves provided shelter, information pass down. Now our prehistory begins. Prove me right Tina or show me how. Great videos..
It's possible that they are over 20k years old. I made a video on the human population bottleneck - hope you will find it interesting: 20-15,000 Years Ago When Humans Faced Extinction - the Ending of a Previous Advanced Civilization? th-cam.com/video/Zs4zLKbp4Ic/w-d-xo.html
Enlightening Tina! Truly there might not be anything new under the sun!
Thank you for the support, Fred!
Thanks for another amazing video Tina👍 i woid like to ask you, if you could allow subtitles for better undertaking of more visitors and followers, pls sweetheart ❤
Imagine your audience is like students who need to have time to understand what your are talking about...you're pretty fast.
Thank you Eva! I added subtitles to my videos - please let me know if you can turn them on. I really appreciate your support ❤
@@CuriousBeingbyTina thanks a lot, but i could open just English ... but I mean as many languages as you could... as i see at many other youtubers
I don't know if it's possible...at your videos. Thank you so much
@@evalesko4613 Oh I got it. Thank you Eva! I would like to add more languages for sure... though I only know two languages... Even if I use Google translate to translate my narratives, I still need to paste each sentence in; I couldn't do a good job with a language that is unknown to me...
@@CuriousBeingbyTina ...i understand.
Wrote a message to you on instagram..😊
It may not be well known, but doves were one of the most common sacrificial animals. Temples stood on every corner at the time, and there were many gods. The consumption of pigeons must have been huge.
This. Was. SO cool!
Thank you !
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watch :-)
at 5:27 picture to the right (Maresha). The striation in the opening here starts at the very top and curves to the bottom. You cannot get a pickaxe or hammer and chisel starting at the top. Either the striations would be done afterwards for astatic reason or a different tool was used.
Very perceptive - thank you for pointing that out, Klaus!
Another great video.
Thank you!
@@CuriousBeingbyTina you are touching on genetic manipulation so have you done much research on the possibility of human genetic manipulation.
Also someone else mentioned the enumah Elise. That is a fantastic story which seems to describe the creation of out solar system. Also....one fascinating part of it....the god enki(Neptune) put the god Anu (the sun) to sleep. I wonder if that is referring to our possible binary twin sun some researchers are suggesting. Interesting stuff. You present in a great method thanks.
@@bok2bok333 The ancient texts must have contained a lot of truth... I haven't done much research on the possibility of human genetic manipulation. It'll be an interesting topic to study.
My doubts : 1. It should have marks of excretion from pigeons everywhere if the niches were used for keeping pigeons. 2. What is the importance of pigeons to the people living thousands years ago bother to make such sophisticated caves？
Thank you for the comment. I had the doubts as well. I found a paper on similar caves in Jordan provided evidence on pigeon excretion. Also there are still some pigeons living inside the Maresha caves which shows dropping marks. Pigeon droppings were used and traded as valuable fertilizers for a long period of time. The bell shaped caves with niches do make excretion collecting easier... It is fascinating that ancient people built these structures to raise pigeons, or did they? I'm not completely sure.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina In the modern world, despite all the new communications technologies, pigeons have been used to send messages over long distances for centuries. It is a safe, efficient and secure way of keeping in touch with others and sharing information.
Oh Tina, it was so good watching this, especially the segment about the domestication of animals. I've been thinking about this for a while and have asked similar questions to yours (i.e. possible DNA manipulations). I also think that some of the answers to these questions might be "documented" in Gobekli Tepe. Even more interesting is our own "domestication". Given that scientists now recognize that we are a hybrid species, it begs the questions: of what and by what means? ;-) This channel rocks!!
she answered it with the sumerian connection.. the sumerians were taught all knowledge, by our creators. watch. sumerian tablet vids, viper tv.. we were genetically engineered.. & taught how to farm.. we were our creators slaves. till they left. 13,000 yrs ago,+ -. ish.. some stayed to rebuild human civilization,after the flood..made,to wipe us out.. !..
Those tool cut-marks look extremely similar to the tool cut-marks around the unfinished obelisk in Egypt…
(4m5s)
1. You're Marvelous 😘
2. Another great yideo 🙂
3. Definitely a Lost Civilizations 🙂
4. I Luv how you show the Toolmark comparison 🙂
Thank you! I appreciate your support :-)
@@CuriousBeingbyTina I will look forward to many more 😊 Your videos are Outstanding.. Have a good weekend 🙂
@@craigcampbell6690 Thank you so much 🙂Have a great weekend.
Moreover, if you look at the Ankwor Wat reliefs which depicts humans utilizing rhinoceros (an ornery animal) as a domesticated animal in battle illustrates the domesticating capacities of the ancient civilizations. Additionally the fact that Indra the Hindu "deity" rides a four tusk elephant (gomphotheres) extinct after the Cataclysmic event of the Younger Dryas speaks by itself about domestication in the ancient pre-Younger Dryas civilizations.
Thank you for sharing your insight - much appreciated! Now I need to search for the deity who rides a four tusk elephant 😊
The machine tool marks in some of those caves are in some pretty tight spots.
I suspect small powered personal units, like a gas powered drill i used to use.
Like a chainsaw engine with s big drill bit on it.
I agree. I found some ancient megalithic sites with very small entryways which indicate that the original builders had compact and powerful tools, such as this one: th-cam.com/video/UutXy0H5ZYY/w-d-xo.html
Genetic interference with DNA to breed dogs from the Russian Wolf?
Yes, I think so.
A parallel to this is the development of ALL the grains we use in farming today from a single type of grass which only grew in Central America and nowhere else.
A previous civilization of the highest art, capable of directing the human race towards agriculture; also building henges to assist decision making as to when crops should be planted, harvested, etc.
Alternate uses for niches:
1. for storing scrolls
2. for storing bones/ashes of the deceased.
If it was for pigeons, there must be some poop that they can date...
The niches are pretty small and shallow so probably they were not made for storing scrolls or bones, maybe for ashes. Guano was used as a good fertilizer in ancient times, so maybe the pigeon poop could be taken away already...
Good point that the doves usage could simply be repurposing of the caves/mines. It could also be 2 independent rising and then declining, then rising again eras between the caves creation, and then domestication events 🤷🏻♂️. The tail doesn't wag the dog lol... 👍👍🙏👍👍
Thank you for the support - I really appreciate it :-) Yes maybe there were two cultures utilized these caves...
I hear so much about humans domesticating animals, but they never talk about how it was done or if it is even happening today. Are we domesticating animals today, or are we just using the ones that have been domesticated thousands of years ago?
Domestication is a long topic... If tamable is the threshold of "domestication", then a lot of animals which are captive-bred can be considered "domesticated". Most recent (within 200 years) "domesticated" animals are domesticated hedgehogs and other smaller animals. The thing is that many animals are friendly and even protective of other animals in the wild. Can we consider that such animals are also domesticated to each other?
Pigeon coves could have been added later to existing bell caves. Their purpose and cultural use could have changed over time.
The parallel gouge marks do suggest a technologically advanced excavation method requiring machines and a culture with such capabilities should certainly be capable of domesticating wild doves. However, where did the removed material go? Was it deposited on the surface or was it used to make something?
Interesting information
Glad you think so!
It is quite remarkable the fact that you have pointed out similar tool markings in the walls of several geographically distant ancient sites. This in turn speaks of a shared technology for quarrying rock formations that spans from the middle east to Japan, suggesting a common civilization. Egypt has not evidence of this peculiar tool markings suggesting a different culture and technology more akin to the ones in the ancient Americas.
Beautiful and knowledgeable
Thank you
wow! I have never heard of these places, beautiful
They are amazing, aren't they?
@@CuriousBeingbyTina I think you're amazing!!!.........Thanks for sharing!!!
@@joearchuleta7538 Thank you Joe!
Such caves will be needed by humanity during the next three years. They will protect us during the worst time of spaceweather and war.
Ahh, I hope not
So beautiful! Imagine living in such a place!! Were there dangerous influxes of radiation from space such as from a relatively close super nova back in those times that motivated people all over to dig caves? We can only hope that some day we might find the remains of the fantastic machines that were used to make them..
Sodom and Gomora do come to mind. they had a radiation surplus at one time.
It was rather concentrated, so a cosmic event is not likely.
Pigeons could have domesticated themselves. The selection occurring between those who come to people and those who fly away. The most tame get the most food from people.
That's a possibility. Thanks Ad.
Fascinating and well presented. Some people do not want new thought as they think it makes them wrong. Which is a shame as it suppress so much knowledge. How to not make them wrong and yet progress?
Well said. Thank you Darla. Hope you can check out my other videos as well :-)
Pigeons are cool i give them bread sometimes, they look at me with a beak full of bread and a tear in their eye,"thanks pal"
That's really cute.
There are no wild Lamas and no records of there ever being any.
Interesting - thanks for sharing, Mike!
Whether I am here now or I was 10,000 years ago, I would definitely be interested in interacting with animals. That’s my nature, curious being too 😉
Thank you 🙏🏼 for your research 🙏🏼
Glad to hear that. Welcome, another curious being :-) Hope you will like my other videos too!
@@CuriousBeingbyTina totally!! Subscribed with full notifications thank you 🙏🏼
@@viaja3569 So glad - thank you! 🙂
wau..soooo fascinating
It’s a library or a tophet or what those things are where they kept the ashes from a sacrificed children like in Carthage
I guess that maybe because of many disasters in the past like floods etcetera may have led to some animals finding refuge with people and survived while many other animals of their kind died out...and so leaving the animals that stayed with the people during those hard times to grow into seperate groups of animals with different behavioures and even genetic changes.
I read that genetic changes may occur faster when only a small and isolatet part of the population survives a disaster.
Because then any and every small genetic mutition will be carried easily through the whole population and if beneficial will stay and then it can excellerate the change very rapidly.
more than genetic manipulation, I think it's more likely the previous civilization used selective breeding (like the russian domesticated foxes)
Yes it's possible. Animals could be domesticated during the previous civilization.
Pigeons?
Bird / pigeons droppings was use in one type of ancient geopolymer, eg Easter island moais. Other ancient type use something else.
It could be a massive tomb complex to store the ashes of the dead?
Interesting insight, thanks for sharing! I'll search for this.
Read a DNA report recently that suggested there were about 18 billion people around 22 thousand years ago. About 18000 years ago there were less than 10000 people world wide. My burning question is - how did 18b people get up every morning and go “hunter gathering”! For breakfast? Maybe farming and domesticated herding is much older. Maybe civilization is much older. Love to have your thoughts.
Where did the homes of 18 billion people go? Everybody in a tent? I just can’t believe that. Maybe the report and isn’t accurate and we need more information. Certainly made me think and now my head hurts.
Interesting that at the time of the younger dryas end there was not a significant human population decline. Seemingly animals were most affected. We have to look a few thousand years earlier to find a mass extinction of humans. We were nearly wiped out - according to this report. Wonder what happened? Noahs flood? Disease? I can’t find any information discussing whether or not animal and plant life also faced catastrophic depopulation at that time.
Thank you very much for the information, Dan! I'm really interested in this DNA report and I searched online but haven't found this study. Would you please let me know the name or other key words of this report? The 22,000-year-old timeline actually works with one of my hypotheses that an advanced civilization collapsed during the HS1 event from 20,000 -15,000 years ago. I made a video on this period because according to DNA studies there was a human population bottleneck during that period: When Humans Faced Extinction - the Ending of a Previous Advanced Civilization? th-cam.com/video/Zs4zLKbp4Ic/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the video,, it was very informative and love the pictures as well. I live in nevada ,, i haven’t had the means to travel to any ancient cave or megalithic site. Do you know of a similar cave or old civilization site that might be closer to me that i might be able to visit ?
Thanks Jimmy. Bandelier National Monument in New Mexico has cave dwellings and steps carved in rock. Hope it's not too far for you to visit? I showed some of its images in this video: th-cam.com/video/qwzgaBpXa28/w-d-xo.html
If you where to go deep in a cave a bird would be handy. A dove would tell you if the oxygen level was to low to breath the dove would die and warn the humans c to leave. They also used canaries in Coal Mine
Incredible and beautiful
Tina, great video, thank you! Very useful information about the dove/pidgeon domestication history.
One thing that bothers me when looking at all these sites across the globe which had different shaped small holes in the walls:
Why would a developed, highly capable anciant civilisation, which is able to carve hundreds of caves in the stone (which today's cultures and nations can't and don't even try to do) need to live together with doves and pidgeons? Did they have problems with finding enough food and fertilizers? That seems unlikely if you consider that they are highly skilled and powerful people based on their advanced dwellings.
In other words, would you like to live together with hundred of birds in the same room, listen to their cooing and smell them all the time? I lived with 4 doves in the house for 8 years and was always closing their cage in a separate room because of the sound and smell. Now think about hundreds of these birds in the same house, without doors! Doesn't look like life of a highly developed civilisation.
The idea that the holes are made for birds doesn't seem likely to me at all.
Keep doing these great videos, thanks!
Domes as you mentioned are cooler. along the same line mining in a dome would not be weather dependent. They probably hired submarine sailors to do the mining because they do not posses the gene for survival. Just give enough beer and they will do anything. You also mentioned they mined the chalk in blocks but judging by the tool marks they weren't getting blocks. They probably had their wives make wicker baskets to carry out the rubble.
Domestication?
We didn’t domesticated cats.
Cats domesticated humans.
How?
Domesticated animals serve humans.
Domesticated human serve cat.
:D
16:30 Well, ancient documents indicate genetic manipulation did happen. Then look at the carvings that depict chimeras like the ones at the Baodingshan and Dazu Rock Carvings. Yes indeed, the megalithic time period was much different than today and might I add just scary.
The bell chambers definitely have something to do with harmonic resonance. Frequency
Ancient records from many countries tell of a great flood--which occurred several millennia in the past.
Researchers have varied thoughts about the degree of technology that existed before this flood. Most
evidence would have been buried or obliterated by the flood, so it is hard to know, but more evidence is
coming to light as we dig deeper; I'm convinced that the level of technology at that time was advanced.
this is cool, thank u for teaching me this 🌹👌🦜
My pleasure 😊 hope you will check out my other videos as well
You are amazing, more things i didn't know. Every video you have something new for me i haven't seen or heard of before and i've read so much and watched a lot of videos.
I knew of these caves and the niches, i didn't know the style were found in France. I don't know about the pigeon breeding. In the dome walls anyway, Some of the holes are way too high and having them in an arch makes no sense, you would be getting covered in bird poo getting eggs etc out of the lower cages and they could have straightened out the walls lower without affecting the strength.
I wonder what the accoustics are like in there? Also i didn't see many "torch marks" from lanterns or fires anywhere.
The other thing that gets me about these sites underground, mohenjo daro etc, is the logistics of feeding, cleaning and housing (individual rooms? Surely thered be something left behind, but these places seem cleaned) the massive amount of people that lived there.
Thank you for sharing your insights! These are valid points. It is interesting that some niches are on the very top and some are at the bottom. The dome/bell shape does have very good acoustics and concerts have been played in the bell caves.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina that would have been amazing. I wonder if the sound travelled through the entire system. Like the "Oracle room.".
Thank you for taking the time to reply. It must keep you incredibly busy. 🤔.
You'd make a fascinating guest at a dinner party. 😊
Tool hardness versus work hardness
Hardness in tool bit is always at least a fraction harder than the work piece any time in ancient and present. The softer the work material the less force we needs to shape the work surface.
We either - conveniently assume there were advanced and heavy duty machinery in ancient times responsible for the cave wall striations - or bite the bullet, to find a way to explain it.
The bullet hypothesis :
What if the ancient people had only softer tool and muscle force is what they have? Assuming they complete the work we see today.
The one and only one way that can be accomplished is that work material have hardness varies from soft to hard, in a chemical process.
If that is OK with you, we may assume the cave walls began soft - like hardness of chalk. All ancient men need was a construction plan to work out a carving process.
Tool format? Their tool bits were format like a comb with one or more handles driven by one or more operators.
Retaining wall hypothesis :
To retaining wall with polygonal fittings - they need geopolymer concrete mixed in a consistency that flow like lava.
Pour the wet concrete in between two adjacent blocks and on top of previously set hardened blocks one level down. It will flow into the targeted void to form three seamless joints. At the end of a wall they use a wood panel as a single side mold.
Also noted they geopolymer concrete expand as it harden, evidently form ballooning blocks, ballooning may be a problem.
As the block shell get hardening sooner it’s half dry core continue expand that would blow out the shell and collapse the block, with core material spill on the construction site - is a problem.
The priest would then puncture the half hard shell with a sphere or blade necessary to bleed excess material in a controlled manner. Usually one puncture is suffice other times two to three is required.
The puncture also responsible for the famous stone “belly button” or knobs.
Tina, you're right and on the right track concerning domestication of animals by humans for various purposes. Selective breeding has been around since prehistory, and revived over and over as human civilization recovered from various global catastrophies. Animals were always selectively bred for strength and work, agility in battle, tender flesh for food, companionship, protection and so on. People noticed certain qualities in the animals and birds, rewarded them and a bond formed of mutual benefit. Of course not everyone did it well, some people did things with brute force and cruel control. Even today many who work with, breed, or train animals rethink the way they should go about it. Like ranchers or horse tamers etc.
The hypothesis of a (or several) prehistoric developed civilization that had the tools to genetically engineer the animals to domesticate them and the machinery/tools for the construction of those caves, could be posible but where are other evidences of their origen? is it all lost because of time and climate? Do we need to dig deeper?, literately.
Interesting videos, thank you Curious Being.
Thank you for sharing your insights. I made two videos on the possible demise of the previous advanced civilization.
I hope you will find them interesting: Was an Advanced Civilization Wiped Out by a 12,800-Year-old Comet at Younger Dryas? th-cam.com/video/4XXV3Ax3KO4/w-d-xo.html
When Humans Faced Extinction - the Ending of a Previous Advanced Civilization? th-cam.com/video/Zs4zLKbp4Ic/w-d-xo.html
You might find the book of Enoch interesting. Dove's were also used as a standard sacrificial sin offering in the ancient Levant region. The herring bone pattern in the drift, show us that the worker moved repetitively from one side to the other back & forth using hand tools.
Thanks - I read parts of the Book of Enoch. I think there could be some historical truth in these ancient books.
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Yes no doubt. I guess that you have also read the Enuma Elis ?
@@anvilbrunner.2013 No, but I read a little about the Eridu Genesis and the Epic of Gilgamesh. I assume these books might have something in common?
@@CuriousBeingbyTina Yes they do. I think you'd absolutely enjoy Enuma Ellis'
@@CuriousBeingbyTina youtube just asked me to rate this video. You get 5 stars. Excellent presentation.
Nice video. As a side note, I have hunted and ate dove. It is a rather dry and bland meat. Many people will wrap it with bacon and stick a pepper on the inside, then grill it. Yum!
Thank you for the support. Hope you will like my other videos as well :-)
Oif we listen to the legends they say we came out of the earth after the flood
So i asume we must of been in caves
Dear Tina, it is the place of most counterfeit art and artefacts in the world. There was a horse-drawn nomadic people that occupied part of Egypt. There he built a new capital city called Avaris. Later, when they were beaten out by the Egyptians, they went to what is now Israel and built a city there. They surrounded it with a wall and built a church on top of the mountain. Named Hierosolyma / Hero Falcon / today it is the city of Jerusalem. Time passes before Christ 450 was a desert robbers not yet a unified people, no religion known JHWH.. According to Ethiopian documents. So I'm sure there can't be a Jewish find before this time.
You rock!
Thanks!