Water Softener Or Salt Free Conditioner Whats The Difference?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2024
- With so many options available when it comes to water filtration it's very difficult to know what's going to be best for you and your family. I wanted to put together a little video to try and answer a few of the most common asked questions but by no means is this an exhaustive analysis of what is available on the market today. Below I've also included a link to a prior video I made of reverse osmosis and also of the equipment installed in this video.
• Reverse Osmosis Drinki...
www.novowater.com/485-hto
www.jcplumbing.us
Timecodes
0:00 Intro
1:11 Water Testing
2:50 Water Quality
4:09 Reverse Osmosis
6:10 Carbon Filtration
8:19 Water Softening
13:27 Installation
16:04 Description Of Install
As a former electrical contractor and current instructor, I really appreciate the quality of your content. Very nice work!
You are a straight BADASS brother! Clean work, professional attire, well-spoken and knowledgeable. Thanks for sharing your expertise
Thanks for a great explanation of the components. Made it all white easier for me to understand what I might need. Great job. Thank you.
Thank you so much for such a great video. The soundtrack made the video even better.
Awesome video by a knowledgeable water treatment professional. That noise masquerading as music was like an old 78 RPM LP in reverse.
😂😂😂😂 Yeah, I’m sure it’s not for Everyone but still thank you for watching at putting up with it.
I have this exact same model installed in my California home. System performance is excellent.
awesome video. love the background music during timelapse install. quintessential GenX vibes.
The filtered and softened water hose bib is genius
Great install!
Nice work and thanks for explaining the differences and types.
That is beautiful work man!
Great video! Few doctors don't realize that skin dermatitis is caused by minerals blocking the skin pores. I moved in my lake house in summer and my sweat kept my pores open. By November I was itching terribly! The first three docs had no idea. #4 told me I needed a water softener. Then I moved to the city and still wanted soft water. But my handyman and I could not figure out how to use it besides just running it through the water heater. So I turn down the heater so I mostly bath in soft water. I have reverse osmosis by the kitchen sink. Had to tell my wife and step daughter that was for drinking and not washing hands.
Thank your so much! Very straight forward and informative. My wife and I bought our first home in December and are hearing a lot of conflicting things from coworkers, plumbers, our family about water softeners and filters. I wish there was a system that could soften and filter the water without having to worry about putting sodium in our irrigation system and killing our new trees if we intercept the water main, but it sounds like no such system exists. Nonetheless, your video is VERY appreciated.
No matter what "soft water" system is used, you taste the salt. It does not satisfy your thirst, nor do get the soap/detergent off of your body. I kicked my water softener out the door. Yes, the water is still hard, but the descaling does stop the hard scale from sticking to my showerheads and pipes. So, I will stick with that system. 2 tanks. 1 activated charcoal the other a descaler. With a 3rd sediment filter (string type). Works for me.
Have had 2 salt based systems over 23 years and have never tasted the salt. Ever. Glad your system you have works for you but the salt system you installed must have either improperly installed or faulty.
@@denisepowell5975Everyone has different taste sensitivity. I have had multiple homes with preinstalled water softeners, and stayed at plenty of places with them. I can taste the salt in all of them. Glad you can't.
Im in socal. I want that setup and id like this gentlemen to install it! Great video!
Hello Jack, Thank you posting this video. I understand that you mentioned that it has to thru back wash cycle and flush it down the drain. But in this video I did not see you doing that?
So informative! Thank you
As a fellow plumber I think this video was fantastic. Especially the music!!!👍
Awesome explanation!
great video, excellent choice of music! thanks!
very insightful!
This is great stuff - thanks!
Good information and loved music
😂
very informative, thanks.
this guys the best!! best plumber out there!
Thank you Ms.Havlicheck, we really appreciate you.
The reason coconut carbon is so obvious has nothing to do with it being premier. Hardwood charcoal/carbon is even better. It's simply that coconut shells are a waste product of the food processing industry, so they're 1) large (which walnut or pecan shells are not), 2) completely renewable (they're the seed of a plant, so you're not cutting down a tree), and 3) Readily available because the food processing companies use a LOT of coconut.
Nice job 🤙🏼
very informative, thank you
God bless you
Thanks for the useful information! Nicely done job and video. How did you handle the waste stream from the backwashing?
Great video
Great video.
thank you for sharing! Texas Tony
Awsome setup up! I was struggling to decide which method works best and yours by far suits me! 1 question my pressure reg valve is a 1 1/4 Watts and its in need of replacement. Do I have to buy an exact one or can I replace it with another brand? Im using the WATTS LF25AUB-Z3 1-1/4 if so please advise which one
9:36 Hit the nail on the head!
Excellent video, very informative. Except for the music, I did mute that part.
Lots of good info, thank you! I read that carbon filters are great at removing chlorine from muni water supplies, however, they are not so great in cases where the municipalities use chloramine to treat their water supply (ammonia is left behind), is this correct?
Great job. I wanted to know if you could recomend something like this for a dug well?
I realize prices can vary drastically, but can you give a ball park figure of what a system like that would cost?
The work music did for me😂😂❤
Great Video! How does Novo compare to Springwell whole home water filters? I’ve heard good about both. Does the Novo filter out the PFASs and PFOSs and such like the Springwell? Thanks!
Thank you,Jack. Nice explanation. I'm from Maryland, Frederick County (Municipal Water). I'm shopping for a water softnere and trying to get Culligan HE Municipal Softener. Could you help in decide the system?
My favorite part of this is the hose bib to wash the car!
Fuggin money!! Excellent plumbing, very impressive. What pants are those?
This was a great video taught me alot wish you worked in Florida brother instant customer from me. Is there any links you can add for that company you mentioned in the video thank you.
Thank you for the kind words I greatly appreciate them. There is a link to Novo Water Systems in the description down below. On their sight you should be able to find a list of preferred partner vendors that should be able to help you out in Florida. You guys have some very unique water situations in your state and I know of several plumbers using Novo equipment down there. Good luck.
Thank you Jack for the great tutorial! Residing in Orange County, and leaning towards a Water Softener from a recent Simple Lab water test indicating a hardness of 15.8 grains/gal in addition to other minerals, metals and salts. Finding much value in your installation for piping, would like to see how you accommodated the drain.
Thank you,
I just went through this and also live in SoCal, where our water hardness is 17 grains. I concluded that water "conditioners" are mostly BS. Salt-based softeners have worked well for decades so I went for that. Note that they usually have a note about keeping chlorine under 2 ppm. I looked into whole house filters and highly recommend only NSF-approved units (third-party tested). Hardly any are, and use Marketing Speak like "reduces all contaminates." What does "reduce" mean? Nothing! Or rather, they could reduce them by almost nothing and still meet their own "claims." I ended up going with a single large carbon filter made specifically for removing chlorine (AO Smith unit at Lowes). Regarding the softener drain, I ran a 20-ft PEX line over to the washing machine dump pipe and shared that. Do not run the drain near plants as the salt will kill them.
Yes, very interesting. Where did he put the drain?
Do you isolate other hose bibs thru out the house or at least isolate the water that feed irrigation?
You didn't mention a bypass/blender valve that allows an adjustable amount of un-softened water to go past the softener. This allows you to set the water so you don't have that annoying "can't get the soap off" effect that fully-softened water gives you. My plumber didn't know about it either, but when he asked the manufacturer, they had the valves in stock. I highly recommend it.
That's great information and you're absolutely right. That's why we love Novo water softeners. www.novowater.com/485-hto. The water softening level is digitally controlled and completely customizable right within the valve head. You can adjust it to completely off all the way up to 25 G.P.G. of hardness. Believe me we have installed every brand out there and these have the most functionality and require the least amount of maintenance.
@@jcplumbing1766 Reading the install manuals, it appears the "hardness" setting on the controller is only used to specify the hardness of the incoming water, so the unit can deal with all the dissolved compounds. ( I had to go to the archived older manuals to get this info, it's not made clear in the newer manuals) If this is correct, then the only possibility for blending untreated and treated water to eliminate fully softened water at the output is with the "bypass" valves, and the manual specifically recommends against that.
Nothing is perfect. From the second you start using water after a regeneration cycle it is getting harder and harder until it regenerates again. That's why you can manually regenerate the system yourself if you feel the need.
That slick feel is ..clean..
No need to try to get soap off.
You are just use to feeling rough so slick feels odd
Great information! I saw another video from a plumber stating he recommends allowing city water to flow in the house once a week so that chlorine is introduced to avoid bacteria. What are your thoughts? He was installing a Halo 5 by the way. Thank you for your time.
Mister did you also installed a reverse osmosis under the sink or it’s enough clean with those 2 tanks, thanks for the informative video.
Isn’t the water softener on the right with the control head and the carbon tank on the left?
What's your take on portable
, apartment softening units?
Can you tell me how often, or if it all, the carbon filter media needs to be replaced? Thank you for taking the time for your explanation and installation video.
That is all dependent on the quality of the water you are filtering but the manufacture states it should never be longer than 5 years.
Is the entire tank exchanged, or the media inside the tank?
Looking to install a system in a house with well water. Which leaves rust colored stains everywhere. Only using a whole house sediment filter currently.
I have some questions about the carbon filter. I had a system installed about 7 years ago that I am happy with. However my system only has the brine tank and then one other that contains both the carbon filter and the resin beads. The company comes out every two years to change out the carbon filter portion of the tank. This raises some questions. Is my system as effective as yours and how long does your much larger carbon filter last? By the way my one single tank is no larger than either of your tanks.
Beautiful installation! I have been installing systems for years! I didn’t see where you ran your drain line to. I have installed many Kinetico 4040 units they are carbon based as well.
The Novo isn’t available in my area. Would you say the Kinetico 4040 is similar in function and does it give same results as this video?
@@JulioJReyes yes, kinetico is a carbon based unit as well. Very efficient as well.
I wish the sales consultants who come to my house to give quotes on these systems had half the knowledge of the sales and support people in these youtube videos
Well, kind of. Conditioners don't "soften" the water, so yeah, no such thing as salt free softeners. But the conditioners do sequester the hard minerals in such a way as to prevent the scale from building up. Most people like have those minerals in their water, too.
You should install a bypass line to the system.
Note Novoclear 485 HTO is a municipal system water conditioner. Not for wells.
Hey Buddy, is a RO system even necessary if we have a high quality carbon filter? All these companies are pushing the RO systems and say the drinking water won’t be that good without a R/O system
Very good presentation....I do have one criticism, the carbon has nothing to do with the TDS level of your water. The explanation is in the definition of TDS (Total DISSOLVED Solids). I don't care what you have out in the garage, it is doing nothing for the TDS level because they are dissolved solids. They are so small it is going straight through that system. The only thing that effects the TDS level is the semi-permeable membrane of an revese osmosis system because it's actually squeezing the water. The EPA has a max contamination level of 500 ppm they allow your water board to give their customers. If your TDS level is at 450 ppm going into that system in the garage, then it's 450 ppm coming out of that system in the garage. The membrane in the RO will drop that 450 number all the way down to 20-30 ppm making it ideal drinking and cooking water. But, very pleased to see a video on TH-cam with 99% accurate information.
I will also note that the sediment filter you added to this install probably isn't necessary for city water. If you're on well water...absolutely. But, city water should be treated anough that filter is not needed. Just another way for water companies to get a little more money from you.
One last thing...I'm not familiar with this exact water softener, but every 2 tank system I have ever seen or sold, the resin tank is the tank with the head on it. You had mentioned that first tank was the carbon tank? I'm not really sure how the resin tank would regenerate with the head on the carbon tank. But, you are correct, the carbon tank should be the first tank in the process. The enemy of resin is chlorine. You definitely want to let the water go through the carbon first to remove the chlorine before it hits the resin to lengthen it's life span. I've just never seen a 2 tank system with the backwashing head on the carbon tank...weird. Other than that...good job buddy.
Hi Jack. Do you service San Diego area? I’m interested in adding a whole property water softener system to my property. I have to install two systems, because I have two buildings on separate water meters. If you don’t service San Diego, do you have anyone that you can refer me to? Thanks!!!
A sediment filter makes sense on the incoming side, to protect the carbon filter and softener, but it appears to be plumbed on the output side, at the top hose bib. All that does is keep sediment off the car when washing.
We have learned and it is recommended by several manufactures to always install the sediment filter on the downstream side. Reason being if and when that water pressure reducing valve fails it is possible for extremely high city water pressure to push ALL that filter media into the homes water system causing some serious headaches.
It should not be necessary to have a sediment filter before those because they are backwashing filters and typically they will trap sediment and self clean during the backwash. Can’t hurt but not necessary in most cases.
@@bgreen4175 your absolutely right.
Actually there should be a pre filter before the water softener/conditioner too. Sediment and/or calcium will eventually clog the screen on the intake side of the softener/conditioner decreasing whole house pressure and volume over time.
Wouldn’t it be better to put the sediment filter before the Conditioning equipment?
Is the Aquasure Harmony a good water softener?
My garage is set up very similar and looks as if it could be the same builder but very curious about the drain line? Was there a drain down at the bottom of the wall that was tapped into or did we drill through the wall to a drain outside the garage? Im looking to have a plumber setup my own system but yet to figure the best way to drain the system. A very nice set-up that I want to do in my own garage!!
I'm not sure of the code requirements of the state your located in but here in California the drain line must discharge into the sanitary sewer. In this particular installation just on the exterior of the garage there was an indirect waste receptor servicing the pool equipment so I simply plumbed 1/2" PVC through the wall to the point of connection.
Thanks for the reply! Also in California and just what I needed to know to plan our own set-up. @@jcplumbing1766
wjwhats the average price of a good full home water softner?
Have you tried Filtersorb CT or Filtersorb SP3?
Can you recommend a similar DIY system. Im pretty handy and dont really want to pay the installation cost of one of these systems that are only sold by plumbers.
Does this system require a drain?
1:14 Cool, local plumber. Got lucky!
How about Nuvoh2O water softner systems?. They claim to be the best on the market. Are they any good in your opinion?
got a link to that water pressure regulator with gauge?
www.supplyhouse.com/Caleffi-535961HA-1-Sweat-Pressure-Reducing-Valve-w-Gauge-Low-Lead-Pre-adjustable
I’ve had the fleck 5600 with carbon filter For 14 years Replacing it three years ago I haven’t had any problems with appliances But it does leave spots on my car if I don’t dry it off
Is there anything else I can add so it doesn’t leave spots Thx
those are soft water spots, easily can be taken off with a micro fiber towel right? usually the residual salt leaves those spots but at least they are not the hard water spots. All car washes uses RO for their final rinse which gives that spot free affect.
How much is the system you installed including the 2 faucets, filter, pretty much everything on the video + labor. I ask so I can have a rough idea what dollar amount I'm looking at. Because im looking into installing the same system for my home. Thank you👍
Every home is different therefore the price varies.
What brand are you using?
Fun music choice. Beats the generic country stuff.
Can you use a point of use reverse osmosis filtration system to feed a whole house humidifier?
I would think you probably could. Look at the Gallons Per Hour of the R.O. system your thinking of using and as long as the numbers are sufficient for your humidifier your good.
@@jcplumbing1766 Awesome! While not as good as distilled water, RO water should help the filter last longer than straight city water!
From my perspective as a mold remediation technician, I've yet to find any ducted humidification system that doesn't eventually cause mold growth in the ductwork, and in turn spew all those mold spores into the air of the home.
I would recommend using a stand-alone humidifier. These aren't the most attractive looking units and may remind you of the 80's, but this is by far a better option than ducting a humidifier.
Even the more expensive steam-type humidifiers have the same inherent problem of creating the perfect environment for any organic particles accumulating in the ductwork to begin growing mold.
Why no full system bypass, two foot of pipe and a valve? Perhaps not required back flow prevention for the hose bibs.
I'm wondering what they consider high pressure on the mains? I suppose to handle such a large population it needs to be quite high. Too high for a carbon prefilter to protect the seals.
@@bryanst.martin7134 Cali, think elevation
I’m new to Las Vegas and I have had some bids on systems. Can a one tank solution really work decently? Salt with 10% resin filter and a coconut carbon filter in the same tank.
I am not aware of any single tank sodium and carbon tank systems on the market. There are salt free TAC systems such as the Halo 5 but if there is I would be interested in learning more about them.
"Mixing carbon and softening resin inside the same tank with a divider is effective in so much as the carbon quantity or the softening capacity will have to suffer.
Since most systems don't use dividers for a multitude of reasons the combining of carbon and resin in to the same mixed chamber is only somewhat effective as the carbon and resin become an amalgam giving the carbon very little effectiveness. The resins effectiveness seems to be just fine as it is typically the majority media. Many mixed medias can be done but this is not one of them. A few companies source special carbons that do stay separated but these carbons are not very effective and require very frequent changeouts. Another alternative is stacked tanks. This has the advantage of completely separating the medias, using different size tanks so as to match the backwash rates (resin requires less GPM per ft2 than typical GAC). The drawback is a taller unit and a limited carbon bed (typical is .5 ft3.)
The best way to go is two tanks, two medias. Keep them separated, and... many companies do this but they save cost by using upflow or non backwashing carbon tanks. Again, this is a common mistake that can work a lot of the time, then again it can fail just as often and requires considerable understanding of the application. I deal with all of these different unit designs. what I installed at my own house is to tanks controlled by one valve and medias specifically designed for the application. This design works on must municipal supplies but is also a little more costly than other water treatment methods.
So to answer your question, don't go for the "all in one" systems. They are not very effective, the do not offer long enough service life, and they may be difficult to service."
Did a little homework and this is what I found.
Any opinion on using solar salt vs salt pellets?
Sodium is sodium, no matter the shape. Use potassium salt
Hirsch pipe and supply,San Marcos California
Does this system need a drain or did you install one?
Yes, any system with a backwash cycle does require a drain. The 1/2" copper line plumbed during installation was the drain line.
@@jcplumbing1766 Ok, thanks for getting back to me
@@jcplumbing1766I saw the 1/2” copper drain line but where did it go? Is it just stubbed outside on the other side of the wall?
How about a whole house distiller... distilling absolutely will remove everything
Great job
But i dont want the taste of sodium ..so add another charcoal at end of line
What does the system like that normally cost
Every home is different. Incoming pipe sizing, were the incoming service is located, proximity to power and a suitable drain. Too many variables for a one size fits all price.
I’m in Murrieta CA, you guys seem local. Can I get a quote online for a 3400 sq ft home or do you guys need to come out?
Being every home is different we must see the existing conditions and the location where you would want the equipment installed. We would be more than happy to get out there and take a look at it for you and we could then give you pricing at that time. give us a call or you can also reach us here www.jcplumbing.us/contact-us/
Expect 3- 4k
So, please tell me why I have water spots with a Kinetico Dual/Quad Tank System? I have water spots that I've been told are salt spots under my refrigerator ice dispenser and very noticeable on my vehicles after washing.
Sounds like it isn't set up properly. The salt causes the plastic pellets to electrically release it's collection. When properly flushed they are electrostatic and collect what ever can be pulled from the water. Too much salt, too little flushing can lead to problems as you have described.
Get an expert to tune your system.
I need a solution to stop my girlfriend whinging about her dry skin from our water. I don’t know if carbon filter units or vitamin c or softener will solve the problem
Rather good vid, however lose the "noise" during the install...
You didn’t tell the how much it cost average at least
A salt-free conditioner does not claim to remove the minerals from the water. They claim to prevent scale build up. The higher end units use TAC (template assisted crystallization) to achieve this. If you can share experience where these systems don't meet their claims, then please share so we can all learn something. Further confusing people by harping on the fact that they are not water softeners without explaining how they work is not helpful...
Tavaris, I appreciate your comment. I am aware TAC filtration exist but know very little about it and am not familiar with very many of the brands. My comments in this video are purely from personal experience of what I have seen in homes with some of these alternative filtering system and the failure of water heaters and plumbing fixtures. There may be some real quality TAC systems out there that truly do what they state but unfortunately in our service area we have yet to see them.
They don't work well only lessens the harshness, and still get spotting dry hair etc
If 18:22 water has calcium and magnesium then the minerals are there. Period.
The saltless systems use good tech mumbo jumbo word salad to sell .
Getting rid of lime scale minerals is the way to go.
As for before and after photos of glass showers ...none of these companies show that..its the tell tale
What do you think causes scale? Minerals.
I don’t like the slick feeling of water soften from salt. Also, JC really unfairly discussed salt-free systems
Anything over 10 grains is considered extremely hard
I don’t see where you installed a drain for the salty wastewater. The salt goes in the sewer system and is not easily removed in a treatment center. Also as of 2014, California effectively banned the installation of salt softeners by leaving it up to the local governments. But also fining municipal water districts whose treated wastewater did not meet certain standards. I can taste the salt in a whole house salt water system. It gives me a stomach ache and doesn’t quench my thirst, actually making me thirstier. When visiting someone who has a system, I see that they buy bottled water to drink.
Jump Around by House of Pain is a classic song. Haters on this thread. I bet you all like the hold music when making phone calls about your bill.
Your customer won’t be happy with that system! I have the same one, absolute junk. Soft water lasted for a few weeks. All my faucets developed the buildup on them them very quickly. Worst system I have owned in 40 years and the most expensive.
I’m really sorry to hear that there must definitely be something wrong. Possibly the system is in Bypass or installed incorrectly or there is always the chance of defect. Our experience is the Cannature equipment is some of the best on the market and definitely the best value for the price.. I would highly recommend you have a knowledgeable plumber take a look at it. If you’ve spent that much money, you really should have what you paid for.
Looks like $6000 to me
Need different pants looks uncomfortable.
People rarely want soft water - they want relief from hard water (like white crusty faucets, and can't lather shampoo). Water conditioners fix those symptoms and are the way to go. Water softeners go overboard giving you "can't rinse your hair fully feeling after shampoos", and salted water that you shouldn't drink or use to water plants (indoor or out). This misleading video confuses people by linking "salt-free conditioners" and the non-existent "salt-free softeners", and doesn't explain actual benefits. Do your homework folks. You can solve your hard water symptoms without these large, expensive, water-wasting flushing water softeners that constantly need heavy bags of salt.
Ask a woman with long hair to shampoo her hair with this water. She will immediately reject it cause it never feels clean and feels slimy
1 bag a week= 52 bags a year x 6.00 a bag = 312.00 a year way too much. that's why Canature uses inferior resin. they need more salt to clean the iron off of them. No thank you.
One bag every 5-6 weeks roughly $80 a year.