There's still need for economic minded individuals but economics is on a macro scale for the federation. most of it's core territory has been introduced to the quality of living technologies that create the utopia where ones challenge is solely what one seeks for themselves..
In the Novels, with Mr. Offenhouse's expert financial background, he was made Federation ambassador to the Ferengi. Later he was appointed to Federation Secretary of Commerce to help in dealings of trade with other members and cultures outside the Federation. L.Q. "Sonny" Clemonds ushered in a revival of 20-21st century music and became a popular traveling entertainer to obscure starbases and planetside bases to entertain Starfleet personnel who were in distant postings. Clare Raymond decided to use her background and experiences and became a counselor of the temporal division and helped crew members of the USS Bozeman adjust to their time jump.
@@peterkoch3777 It would give him an advantage over other humans in the TNG era in understanding and dealing with the Ferengi, as he does in the novel "Debtors' Planet"
Picad:"Those comms panels are strictly for official business." "Then why don't they require an executive key?" Picard: "COMPUTER. Deny access to comm panels from this room unless for medical emergencies. Authorization Picard. ....satisfied? *walks away*
@@_Ekaros Captain Picard is happy to show his collection to anyone who is interested in it. The artifacts he has collected over the years don't represent any kind of monetary value to him, he doesn't keep them to enrich himself, gain power through them or make other people envious of him. Instead they are the physical embodiment of the memories, stories and experiences he has acquired when he obtained them. Raw data and photographs/holograms can only tell you so much, sometimes you just need to be able to hold and feel an item to understand it's historical or cultural significance. That's also the reason Captain Picard still reads physical books, even though he could read all those stories from a tablet if he wanted to. The act of holding a book and turning pages while reading it immerses you into the story, giving you a connection to it you otherwise might not feel.
There is much more about being a historian than knowing stuff about the past. Its a profession that is built on scientific and academic methods which you have to apply correctly. They would definitly be an excellent interviewee for a historian though.
In the books, after his stint as ambassador to the Ferengi Alliance, he later becomes Federation Secretary of Commerce, a senior advisor to the President. So, he wasn't about money, it was about power. And he managed to reach a level of power unimaginable in the 20th century.
Orville covered this brilliantly. In a world where production has become effortless material objects have no value. If you can press a button on a replicator and have a pile of diamonds, what worth are they? Instead respect becomes the new currency, being the best at what you do is valued. People are still greedy and self centred but the goal is to excel in your chosen field, even if its a humble profession. It’s a move from a individualistic society to a community based one.
A society that respects you for being the best at what you do is about as individualistic as you can get. A society with collective values would respect the ability of people to collaborate and participate in work together. It wouldn’t be about being the best, it would be about recognizing that working together is how we can be the best.
I can smell my target species of fish from three times the distance of anyone I've ever met. Won't do me much good when fishing is considered a barbaric crime.
Heck, we can manufacture diamonds IRL, *now!* The usual marketing tactic to deal with that fact is that they are somehow not as good as "real" diamonds (in fact, they are often better).
@@peterschuerman being the best at what you do is still a core value in a collectivist society because you are bringing forth the best in you for the collective
I like that this guy points out that part of his reasoning comes from the notion of challenge. I'd like to think that in the world of ST, financially minded people like him who chased after success would enjoy a society based on personal achievement and renown a lot.
He actually found a challenge he enjoyed in the ST:TNG Timeframe. He became the Federation Ambassador to the Ferengi. Apparently, he was quite respected for his "Lobes" for business.
One thing I liked about later seasons and DS9 is the "Star Trek Economy" was fleshed out. They struck a good balance between the Utopian "no money needed" thing Gene Roddenberry made (i.e. Earth itself doesn't need money) yet keeping it realistic by showing an actual economy does exit (i.e. galactic trade between different peoples). But it's season 1, so basically nothing was consistent lol.
Roddenberry threw a hissy fit over Deep Space 9. The man was a petulant child when it came to his future being questioned. I remember there was an interview by one of the writers or directors (I forgot which one, might even have been one of the actors from TNG) in which he questioned that IF Star Trek's philosophy was so widespread and accepted, there would be no NEED for a Starfleet, period.
To me the federation had an economy and even currency it's just the federation ensures basic needs such as shelter, food, water, education are all free and accessible. So if I wanted to study ancient history my food and education is free but let's say I one day want to buy a ancient earth book then I need to have credits as it's not a basic need that is how i picture the federation
@@Sizdothyx If this was reality then not even the Ferengi would remain capitalist for long, because the Federation would soon share replicator technology with them.
What episode? It must be a DS9 because that's the only series I haven't seen all the eps. To IMDB! No mention of Mark Richman appearing in any other ST series or movies. Is it in a ST novel or something. I'd really like to know.
Thanks heymrk. I should really give ST novels a try. I've been a fan my whole life and after more than 50 years, all I know comes from the TV series and movies and you can only watch those so many times before they get stale. Peace and long life, my fellow Trekhead. :-)
He actually becomes the ambassador to Ferenginar. He understands them in a way that no present Terran could. He makes a later appearance character-wise in STTNG I think, or maybe one of the later variants. As an ambassador as well, I think.
It's not canon. I also don't buy it because Offenhouse would rather be the guy earning wild crazy profit for himself in the galactic channels made available, working with or against Ferengi consortiums. No way he would be what is essentially a desk-bound politician.
"Aboard a starship, that is not necessary. We are all capable of exercising self-discipline" This may be an explanation why Kirk so stupidly gave access to complete technical documentation of the ship to complete strangers on several occasions. Nearly lost it too. You'd think he'd learn after the first time.
@@tonywebster8582 Keep it for themselves. They won't be sharing if there was only one, kinda like what happened in the soviet union. They'll figure out that it's unlikely such a ship would be produced under normal circumstances in their life times.
Kirk: Hi there Mr....Khan? Here's navigation. Here's our weapons array. And here's helm. Anyway i'll leave you totally alone while I go to my ready room. Kha "MUTINY MODE ACTIVATE!!!!"
DarkNova50 the TNG view of economics always felt artificial. TOS, had trade stations with currency. Ds9 was a trade station at the edge of federation space and has to give crew a stipend. Voyager had rationing and constant resource management. Enterprise was pre “utopia”, set during a time of turmoil and was exploring where here was minimal support but maximum opportunity to gain/trade/expand/male-alliances. STD got the jj-verse pox (easy tech-magic but endless demands of limited Human Resources). And there stands the TNG federation. a bubble of “we are better than you” space cultists dismissive of any who can’t flip a mental switch and “just be like us”. Yet Picard rightly stands as one of their best captains, diplomats and strategists. No wonder everyone around them ended up trying a bit of warfare, all but the over-cautious/insular Vulcans (likely by learning hard lessons early) probably saw a state full of resources but low on defences or the will to protect them. I mean the borders were patrolled by low number high cost literal generation ships filled with families and prone to sticking their noses into anything that looked remotely interesting).
Picard is still right. There was a freak chance that they would stumble upon his capsule. Besides, two other people who had basically no power got there two. Three different walks of life.
@@Jeroscope Most likely they were all rich. The singer sounded like he had a successful career, but he focused on pleasure and didn't care much about power. I think it was Paul Stanley who said, "Money only matters when you don't have it."
Picard didnt even need to verbally clown on him cause all the others did that during the episode, the audience also saw that not only did they find the capsule by chance but also most of the people were dead, only these 3 survived out of luck, not control
His rebuttal was garbage and showed an infantile lack of understanding. The fact that he was still alive was purely a matter of chance. He could have just as easily been in one of the failed containers: Chance. What if Picard had been in charge of the away team? Picard made it quite clear he would have left him there: Chance. It would have far, far more likely been the case that his ship was not ACCIDENTALLY found: Chance. What if he had been found by Romulans and spent the last few hours of his life being tortured for information: Chance. What if he had awoken into a society HE would have designed, a society where only the rich are esteemed. He would have been put to work in a labor farm somewhere for a daily bowl of gruel: Chance. The best thing that ever happened to him is that HIS vision of society did not come to pass. I'm sure that if Elon Musk had not been born into fabulous wealth, he would be exactly the same person he is today. Right.
All of you crying that he was only found by chance, so that proves his claim of power is false, fail to realize that his power bought him that chance in the first place. A poor man never had the opportunity to roll the dice. He did, because he had the power. Picard is wrong, and the fact that even the writers didn't give Jean-Luc a reply shows even they couldn't deny the truth. Because it is true. Those without power would like to pretend that power is illusory, but it is real.
Actually, it would be really interesting to see a more detailed examination of how economics would work in a post-scarcity society. For example, whole industry sectors would just die if people could simply replicate virtually anything they want.
It is interesting to think about what may or may not still be around. We know restaurants are still a thing even with food replicators, as are bars and clubs. Presumably banks and the financial sector aren’t really around anymore (at least not on Earth). People don’t have to worry about food, housing or medical care so having a job is likely somewhat voluntary and more a matter of finding something you’d like to do with your time
@@RonnieFlare17 there's no scarcity of anything in context. replicators end scarcity of capital. antimatter ends scarcity of energy. warp drive ends scarcity of land. artificial intelligence ends scarcity of labor.
can never have a truly post scarcity society. For example, there's only one Paris, but a lot of people want to live there. :) Having said that, obviously replicators would change a lot...robots in general would basically eliminate human manual labor. There would be bricklayers, but their job would be intellectual. They figure out where the bricks are to be laid with mathematics and design, and then show the robot. Then they kick back and watch the robot due what a human would sweat and break their back doing, and do it faster and more accurately. :)
@@scifirealism5943 " warp drive ends scarcity of land." Nah, again, there's only one Paris. There's only one [desirable city on Mars], etc. Land would still cost money. btw you don't need FTL to go to other star systems. Merely going 99.99999999% the speed of light (perfectly acceptable under Special Relativity) can get you to the nearest star in four years and to that TRAPPIST system with several habitable zone planets in 51 years. (or only a few months if you could accelerate at 1 G the whole time, of course 51 years would still pass on Earth.)
Was the first episode to truly indicate the Borg. Outpost along the Neutral Zone suddenly vanishing, as if torn from the ground itself. Happened to both the Federation and the Romulans. We would later learn who actually did it.
This was when the Romulans were introduced in the show, and it was really fascinating how they decided to do this at the same time. Really great episode and I'm glad they did it, though a full episode of them just dealing with their "time-travellers" would have been interesting too.
Oppenhaus: "My lawyer was a member of a very important firm. Rest assured, that firm is still operating." Picard: "......................computer, ten thousand units of United States currency dollars, circa 1985, non correlative serial numbers." _wwwwwwzzZZZZZZZzzzzzmmmm_ Picard: "You can have all the money you want. Serve yourself. Nobody needs it." _walks out_ Picard: "And STAY AWAY OF THE COMM CHANNEL!" _walks away_
In the old series' episode, "Catspaw," Korob conjures up a bunch of jewels, to which Kirk responds that he could manufacture such stones by the ton on his ship.
On Naval Vessels officers have State Rooms not cabins. The CO and XO have large staterooms compared to other officers abord. Junior Officers share State Rooms.
not "than everybody else", only "than anybody in the other 8 decks of the upper saucer section that fit crew cabins" the saucer section alone has 15 decks.
This is a future that we should all strive for because these people are really free, because they don't have to worry about how to pay rent next month or how to pay university for my kids. Everyone can do what he or she wants, what fills the person for a living. Mankind is able to achieve great things when hunger is defeated, everyone has access to free medical care, there is world peace and nobody needs to worry any more whether they can finance a flat. When the worries of everyday life are gone, people can surpass themselves because they can put all of their brain capacity into projects. I'm talking about architecture, science, art, music, and space exploration. The earth is then a heavenly place.
Imagine if we could create a society like that. All basic needs met to their fullest extent. Nobody would ever have to work for food, energy, communication, housing, clothing... just imagine what we could achieve.
It sounds like a fantasy at this point, but realistically we are not far off. 3D printing, AI scanning objects to create 3D models, AI is now making phenomenal art and in a very short period of development. 3D printing is making organs, and soon enough better quality meat than anyone has ever eaten once sequences correctly. Robots are getting more and more advanced, the world is transitioning, even if slower than necessary, to green energy sources, and much more. All the world truly needs to do to end the need for most things is advance recycling things down to their core elements and components, and continue to develop 3D printing objects and sequencing food for the same. Recycling, once a certain level is achieved, will turn our oceans of garbage into just about everything we could ever need. Done with something? Recycle it. Animal waste, including humans? Toilets could recycle it in the end, back to the elements that make it up. Your waste could be half of your dinner later that same day. It sounds revolting, but recycling would make it so you would never be the wiser health and taste wise. It would be like it was made with any other healthier substance you would prefer, but it could be made of anything, as the original matters form no longer is a factor. What would a world look like when this is possible? When the public sees and understands that anything and everything being sold is no longer worth anything? Just the energy to print it, which will only become more and more advanced. Faster, more efficient, more dynamic in capability. And green energy would be able to supply more than is necessary to print and replace all the components necessary to macro out as many of these devices as we want. As many energy capturing systems, as many advanced 3D printers, as many as many robots we want to install things for us. By the time we have recycling, 3D printing and green energy where we need them for this, AI should be phenomenal and capable of advancing itself and designing better than humans can probably ever do themselves. It does sound like an impossible future when you look at the world today, but it's not far off technologically or chronologically, as long as we fight to keep such developments in the public's awareness.
China is doing that now. They have eliminated poverty. There is no starvation or homelessness. America could do this too it's extremely easy, this policy of poverty is deliberate.
Trying to learn about 24th century economics from Star Trek would be like trying to learn about 21st century capitalism from watching documentaries about life on a US Navy nuke sub. You're seeing a tiny shard of the society, and indeed the shard that is least affected by economics.
Speaking as someone who has all physical needs met for pretty much the rest of my life, I'd say there's never enough time to do and learn all the things I want to. Never have I been so busy, as when I chose to retire.
of course. A) Country music may not even be a thing anymore B) He operates on the adage 'Everything old enough is new again' C) His lifestyle allows him to react to change very easily.
@@mpittard21 Well put, Matthew. Of course, music was clearly still a thing to humans even in the 24th century, even if it's not country music he could always adapt to what is popular at the time.
"On Earth, there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. Well, it's easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there in the Demilitarized Zone, all the problems haven't been solved yet. Out there, there are no saints - just people. Angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive, whether it meets with Federation approval or not!"-CMDR Sisko Picard never realized this. He like most of the Federation are up on their moral high horse and do not grasp this simple concept. Oppenhaus clearly does and he doesn't know there is a problem.
I know. It's like watching the wealthy business executives in their skyscraper penthouses as they look down on everyone else and admonish them for not having class.
Harry Mudd: I used to have a life, Captain, a good one. A respectable business. That all got blown up, because of your goddamn war. Cpt Lorca: Starfleet didn't start this war. Mudd: Of course you did. The moment you decided to boldly go where no one had gone before. What did you think would happen when you bumped into someone who didn't want you in their front yard? Ash Tyler: You're siding with the enemy? Harry Mudd: I'm not siding with anyone. But I sure as hell understand why the Klingons pushed back. Starfleet arrogance. Have you ever bothered to... look out of your spaceships down at the little guys below? If you had, you'd realize that there's a lot more of us down there than there are you up here. And we're sick and tired of getting caught in your crossfire.
It's either all of us or none of us. Making the world work for 100% of humanity, in the shortest possible time, through spontaneous cooperation, without ecological offense or the disadvantage of anyone should be our number one goal as a species.
I love Enterprise set designs so much more from the first season. Crew and guest quarters got so much more dark and colorless as the series went on. The Enterprise as we know it would never have been so bright and optimistic if it had been designed under Berman's watch. Just look at DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise: "The only color you are allowed to use is GRAY, and you may have a MAXIMUM of two 40-watt light bulbs per room."
@@SpaceNerd117 aye, I was referring implicitly to the Defiant as well as Starfleet settings like Starbase 375. Interestingly, the runabouts, designed for TNG, have interiors that are much more colorful and pleasant to look at.
@@SpaceNerd117 way too many times in ds9, yoh can't see anything outside of the characters outlines. There's a youtube channel that improves the look of it with some clips, it really allows you to see the effort they put in
@@Josh_Fredman I mean, the Defiant was intentionally made to be bare-bones in-universe; it was a small combat-focused vessel, designed to combat the Borg. I agree that maybe some rooms weren't the most aesthetically bright and colourful, but I did feel that some rooms were an upgrade over the ones we see on the Enterprise. I always felt that Janeway's office, for example, was a straight upgrade over Picard's, with its huge windows giving a great view of space, the lovely seating area that seemed well-build for hosting guests for diplomatic missions and the like.
I gather from ST, they take care of people, maybe grew up. Use of tech stuff to help, not hinder. Forget war, differences, we are ALL Humans. I hope we go the same path this series is about.
In fact, they do seem to have one. Notice that when accessing certain things in the computer, they must identify themselves to the computer first. This is their password, as the computer can identify them from their voice. But emergency communication being delayed by having to do that every time could lead to people dying. Hence the ship's official communication channels being open.
Wait a sec! In this era of supposed abundance, there is a scarcity of something (bandwidth)? That would seem to undermine the very premise of this episode.
@@Hunpecked Radio waves are limited to how much information they can transmit, especially if you were transmitting to earth from deep space because of all the interference from suns, planets, black holes. quasars, and other phenomenon.
The challenge is to Improve yourself. Enrich yourself. Enjoy it. Good values. I don't understand competitive nature in sports or games. I understand cheating in them even less. I desire to do better...for me. If I don't achieve it legitimately for myself, then I don't actually win.
It really does show why the Enterprise's transmissions were so popular. Lot of people on Earth with a lot of time on their hands, looking for the next inspiration. You can only learn so many musical instruments, and all the competitive video games are dominated by superintelligent aliens trolling all the other species.
In a way this reminds me when Mark Twain was talking to Troi about economies, and conflicting timelines. Too bad our society is so dependent on money, but really it's hard to imagine a society where money doesn't exist, that is PERFECT science fiction.
Well, the replicator technology basically makes money irrelevant because it cab provide a never-ending supply of everything you want. So, it might just work, if we reach this level of technological sophistication... and also grow as a people
I can imagine a society where kids just replicate a TV and an Xbox Z-29-Delta (or whatever) and spend their lives gaming. "Wouldn't you like to join Starfleet?" "What for?" "So you can see the galaxy!" "Again... what for?" No personal incentive = no personal motivation. That's what makes this science fiction -- it ignores human nature but still works. Because the writers _say_ it works. Not because there's a chance in Hell it actually would.
I have a feeling humans will get to this point,just look at the richest guy on the planet Elon Musk wanting to live a minimalist life,it's not really science fiction only 🙂
@@JohnCastleSmokeless you could say the same thing about sleeping.... Why play video games when you can just dream. Perhaps there a are gradients. The very first episode of star trek with captain pike has them meeting aliens who's own brain's evolved to experience reality about as tactile as our own. Seven of nine's first hand experience of the omega molecule was something she clearly valued experiencing her self and definitely one of the highlights of her experience as an individual on voyager, on top of that the borg have a special appreciation of the molecule so she might have been tempted to toxically pine to be reintegrated into the collective to better appreciate it. There are so many way to exhibit unconscious behavior. Most infamously ,actually; Is topical. Psychopathy. And ceo's are disproportionately psychopaths. I consider that to be a cognitive dysfunction, like god's light everything in the universe is attached to meaning, Hell is a true void that people willfully choose to be in(psychopaths could kill themselves. And normal people go through forms of death all the time. ). Psychopaths have better appreciation of the social landscape and clout, however without even realizing it they always slip up and show their ass, cause the problem of lies for one thing. In Dark Souls lore videos I learned that people who attempt to ape the beauty and power of the noble dragons, there's a deep sense among most artists to go your own path, they end up these half baked, half asses torturous eldritch abominations I mean we've already threw up our hands and let mother nature deal with the hard problem of perception in A.I. Our idea of A.I. was that every line of code would be curated by a programmer . Instead we train them and use Neural nets. Cause that's what's sensible and practical. The people who think they can make something from nothing is directly analogous to wanting to be in a true void-Hell.
@@JohnCastleSmokeless There's people willing to explore and see the stars, just like there are people willing to stay at home and learn to code or learn another language. Having access to resources and programs that make it easier to travel through space doesn't mean everyone will do so. You could argue that necessity drives some people to do things, which is fair. Claiming absolutely *no one* would do anything without necessity, however, is inaccurate.
@@GeorgeMonet Deep Space 9 was written by someone who knew that people weren't analogues for ideologies. Star Trek operates on the logic that people would shift their need for a "want" and change what people are to the core of their being. This is not the case in regards to the individual. Roddenberry may have had an idea, but he had a terrible understanding of the human condition. Did he expect a utopia to be a utopia because everyone got along? Families argue and throw tantrums; children and parents barely reach an understanding and we expect there to be no singular consequence? Please. Deep Space 9, flawed as it was at times, did the Star Trek fandom a favor by taking a match to their safe spaces. If the world was so damn sterile, there wouldn't be a need for a Starfleet, period, and it definitely wouldn't be run by people like Picard.
Does it? Enlight me, exactly where we see Sisko personal fortune? Or Bashir manor on Beverly hills buyed from his millions free of taxes? Or actual taxes (in the federation, that is). DS9 is about "ei, trek universe can also be rough" but not capitalists. As a frontier post, near a world recently recuperating from a brutal campaing of brutal ocupation, there's black market, contraband and illegal stuff and that's mostly what DS9 Starfleet and bajoran personnel deal with. But that doesn't imply currency. Not even economy. Black market is an unstable, untrustfull net of contacts to interchange high risk, valiable stuff, but it has no rules, no offer demand and no fixed currency or trade rules. That is not economy. That's mob bussiness.
Sadly they are not realistic. For example, the idea of not having money anymore is nonsense. For the common citizen, not needing money to survive because food, water, building materials for homes and infinite energy means they can have everything they need to survive for practically no cost by the state. But for everything else, the state will need to have some kind of currency and a concept of material value in order to interact with the rest of the Galaxy. A society with no money or concept of material possession or worth is isolated from the rest of the Galaxy.
Who knows what the future looks like, but, even if such ideals are hypothetically not 100% achievable, we can at least be 99.99% as close to an optimistic future as possible. I like these ideals too.
@@LordProteus Unless the other societies you interact with have similar values, a lack of currency, and no need of trade. If your society is self sustaining and all its needs are met for each of citizen within, why would you need currency to interact with another similar society? Or even to interact with a society unlike yours? The interaction with another culture is no longer cemented in the idea of economic expansion for either. The interaction is about the cultural exchange.
That was one thing I liked about after season one. They still kept the utopian ideals, but toned down the condescending attitude that characters towards "backwards" alien species and past humans.
I actually liked the condescending attitude. It showed that humans have progressed somewhere. We too would be condescending if we met a medieval person who approves of slavery and has no understanding of human rights.
@@SamuelBlack84 It is a tv show not reality. Federation will never happen in real life mainly because there are no aliens and human intellect is somewhat finite.
This is one of my FAVOURITE Star Trek clips of all time! Star Trek is much more than just shooting, space ships... and more recently, sex and bad language. Thanks for sharing!
@@Jokie155 Nah, you must be intellectualy lazy or limmited. Philosophicaly contemplating about a subject is not the same as having mindles, empty and untalented writting of STD/STP.
@@Jokie155 There's also The Naked Now, the second ever episode of TNG that shows Data declare he's "fully functional" to a scantily clad Tasha Yar before later waltzing onto the bridge like he just won the lottery.
Thing is, if you live on earth? Yeah, you could... I'd hope you'd intend to do something you l ike... fishing, writing, painting, cooking for people, singing, plays.. anything you wanted to do. When you can replicate food, clothing, drink... anything, it becomes "what can I do that I want to do?"
@BrownHawk2 kirk is a savage compared to Picard. A brute who punches everything, a womanizer. He is Murica in space. Nothing as refined or intelligent as Picard's series.
@BrownHawk2 Yes, people still use money in the star trek universe (although TNG's writers were never really consistent about it) what changed is that no matter what job you have you can always afford to live in what we would consider luxury. teachers, politicians, maintenance workers, Miners, etc all have the same standard of living (utopian abundanc) and the only people who struggle materially are colonists on the frontiers. the second major thing is that humans are no longer culturally motivated by acquiring material wealth anymore. instead pretty much everyone seeks to better themselves, and find and accomplish what satisfies them. some people go into Starfleet, but the world also has people doing stuff off screen. people are still makeing Art, composing music. running restaurants. people still go into business, still hire employees. the change is that everyone is free to do what they want, by Picard's time no one goes through school going "well I don't really want to work here but I need the money" people just figure out what they want to do, and they work towards their own goals.
This guy is right about security acsess to panels. There are always non fleet people on the bord of Enterprise. Also i don't understand how those three people ended near Neutral Zone. Theirs ship was launched pre-warp era
Indeed. But little do people realise that this was based upon a real concept called The VENUS PROJECT. Roddenberry was good friends to Jacque Fresco who was an adviser to the industry. He came up with Tablets in Demolition Man, The city designs, the Resource Based Economy, there are even Documentaries which capture him actually saying "Prime Directive" in the corporeal sense as well as the line "The essence of wisdom begins with.. I do not know". It's amazing. They are based in Venus, Fl, MI.
In that it is a classless, moneyless society, sure. But socialism doesn't account for technological advancements, such as replicators. Also, we never see how civilians live, just how Starfleet does things.
This only shows a semi-utopic future, it does not explain how they got there, this can easily have nothing to do with socialism, because socialists aren't the only ones saying "we want a future where people have their needs met and everyone is happy". Even in a 100% capitalist society, once scarcity dissapears, money would too.
This is in my top five of favorite TNG episodes (Neutral Zone) This Ep harks to two other works that I have always enjoyed: - The James Taylor song "Frozen Man" and - The "Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer" sketch from Saturday Night Live with the inimitable Phil Hartman!
It's funny that in this episode they clearly establish that they don't need for anything anymore, and yet as the seasons went on it was shown that they really do still have them.
I do have some questions about the Star Trek economy. Picards brother owns and runs a family orchard... How do they keep the orchard in the family. What if someone else wanted the orchard? What about owning an island home on Hawaii with a beautiful view and access to the beach. I understand with a replicator most possessions have no value but land probably would. Even with a holideck, the actual land would have value, some things would be collector items. How do those transactions take place?
@@tonywebster8582 His brother is sentimental, and wants to preserve his family's heritage by growing wine the old-fashioned way. He also has a wife who cooks - _cooks!_ - because they don't have a replicator. Just because they don't have money in the future doesn't mean they don't have property, though. Private property is a basic human right, and the most consistent thing about the Federation in every _Trek_ series is that it upholds the rights of individuals. Robert Picard probably has a legal title to the vineyard because it belongs to him - he lives there; he works there. Almost all of its value is the product of his own creativity and that of his ancestors who let it to him. It would be an outrageous violation of his natural and civil rights if someone squatted on it or dispossessed him of it.
@@CountArtha But we saw in the Picard series that the family owned the farm since at least the 20th century and yet had made the choice to abandon the property for centuries. It wasn't until the early 24th century did the family go back to their French land. This means for centuries the land was kept in title to the Picards even if they weren't using it, quashing any kind of homesteading requirement to keep land as an ownership item. This is just plain and simple land hoarding, no different than what is commonly done by investors today.
I remember the story behind this episode was that it was written with a cryogenically frozen Harry Mudd in mind. Unfortunately with the passing of Roger C. Carmel shortly before it was shot resulted in them having to do a rushed adaptation of the original script into the episode we know. Personally I'd love to read that original script and see how Mudd would have impacted the Next Generation.
Carmel died almost a year before TNG premiered. This episode’s script was rushed and unpolished, though, due to the 1988 writer’s strike beginning within days of the writing of the last two episodes of season 1.
@@cr4yv3n I don't mind different skin tones or body structures, but I hate different opinions that don't align with my own. Those who're not aligned with myself will be demeaned and torn down.
I may actually put this episode in the top five favorite episodes of Star Trek (in the whole franchise!). I'm realizing now with these clips how well it was freaking written! I'm pretty excited now that I won the auction 15 or so years ago and own Leon Rippy's Star Trek "pajamas" uniform that he wore during this episode. :-)
but where they change scenes, they dropped the middle one, where the banker makes it to the bridge, where he realizes the Romulan Cpt is fishing for information
@@steveeverett1736 Yes, that one is an awesome scene as well. But my favorite scenes are where we get to learn about these "sleepers" as individuals. That is where this, for me anyway, episode SHINES.
Follow up episodes are more DS9's territory. Especially unexpected consequences of decisions that seemed right at the time (TOS episode "Mirror. Mirror").
Imagine their Holo-novel. They would be famous on that alone. Imagine being a 24th century citizen experiencing the Beatles for the first time brought to you by someone who actually saw them and was around. It would be like talking to one of Mozart's fan club members or standing around watching VanGough work in real time. Also, imagine the whole "Improving yourself" aspect. Think of it. How many planets and alien species are in the Federation alone? You could easily spend the rest of your life as just a tourist on hundreds if not thousands of different worlds. I HAVE to visit Qo'noS and Rigel and spend a month or two meditating with Vulcan monk and debating literature with a Cardassian.
Here I sit, 5 years after this video was published and 30 years after this episode first aired and I'm amazed by the conversations that are going on in this comment section. Trekheads, myself humbly included, are truly some very thoughtful, perceptive, and intelligent people. I find the perception of Star Trek's universe as being "communist" particularly fascinating. I've always felt that Gene's vision was a world that had transcended all existing 20th century political ideologies in favor of a genuinely workable utopia. Rather than "communist", I think it's more based on mutually beneficial and willing cooperation between individuals and civilizations. Live long and prosper everybody. :-)
How do you determine what is beneficial and how much it is worth? How do you measure that? How do you exchange that for something of equivalent value? Don't you need to set a price for that? Resources are not infinite, even Starfleet doesn't have unlimited resources, all that commie drivel Picard spouts is nothing but idiocy and wishful thinking.
@@dattebenforcer I imagine you look at results I guess. The advent of replicator technology has fundamentally changed the core of human desires, especially after enduring a devastating nuclear war.
Ku Dastardly - Look up the Mouse Utopia experiments. And shouldn't you look at results? Results are what impact people in the real world, all your good intentions mean nothing if you end up causing suffering.
@@dattebenforcer Ah, I'm guessing you're referring to the Rats of NIHM, right? Anyways by "results", I'm not talking about testing out some large grand social expriment, but rather more like looking up a track record of whatever endeavor one wants to pursuit to measure the value of benefit, but kinda on a more personal level.
Money is a measure. It's what allows trade between disparate resources and services, it's what allows apples to be equated with oranges and labour to be associated with apples. Unfortunately, it's allowed the artificial accumulation of resources since all resources decrease in value over time, food are perishable, durable goods wear out and become worthless, labour is most valuable when it is needed and of least value once done. Now, we generally allow inflation to in part account for the decrease in value but as being a fungible interchange, money can never mirror the true value or rather utility that it represents the exchange of. Like the concept of a mile exists regardless how you travel so will money regardless of how many replicators and energy sources you have. What may change is the fungibility of money, money already have conditions in the world of academic research grants so with digital currencies, it could have enforcible conditions for common use as well. You could have "credits" that could only be redeemed for your daily food, that could only be redeemed for your rent or mortgage, all with appropriate expirations. Ironically, during the early days of the US, money often had expiration dates. Ben Franklin wrote a lot of essays about money.
@@johnwang9914 I'm well aware of the usefulness of money in a limited resource economy, but in an economy where everything is virtually free, money is not as useful to the average person. Now, very large projects that require more resources or energy than is readily available may still require money or credit of some sort, but this video is dealing with individuals.
@@momentary_ ah, then why the need of acquisition that drive the Ferengi? Drinking in Quark's bar or partaking in his holosuits isn't free and there was a TNG/DS9 crossover where Riker let it be known he had some type of income. And not all societies worked the same way. Even the Klingons, IIRC, still had a monetary economy. Also, there had to be some kind of commerce on earth as well. Yes you could go to your replicator and ordered up a surf and turf with a 3 pound lobster but what if you wanted to take a vacation? Or wanted a mode of transportation(vehicles still exist in the 24th century) or if you wanted your child in the finest schools? I'm quite sure Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, and Yale were still pretty exclusive. Also, Ben Sisco's father owned a restaurant on earth. Could I simply point to a building and say, "That's mine and I want to open up a massage parlor". This is one of the "we've eliminated all want" paradoxes never explained.
I like the way that by the end of this escapade Mr. Offenhouse would have seen enough to know he could have a fulfilling career here. For starters he found out he could still size people up and gage what their motivations were.
I’ve always been curious about how his brother owns a vineyard. Can anybody just ask for a vineyard? I assume that it was inherited from the family. So it’s a feudal system? If your parents owned a vineyard, you just inherit it? How can a non vineyard owner ever come to own one? Some people seem to own their own space ships. Can anybody just replicate one? Seems to me that everybody would want to be a vineyard owning space traveler.
My guess is some kind of homesteading provision, i.e. you have to live there to keep the land. Hence, when Picard's brother died in the fire, the land should have been released back into a homesteading pool since Jean-Luc didn't immediately go back and retire from Starfleet to live there. Lots of holes.
It's a good question. There must be a legal provision for maintenance of family properties that keep alive old earth traditions that are deemed to have cultural and historical value. The Picards get to keep growing their grapes and making their wine if they want to, but they don't have to worry about how they'll survive if the vineyard somehow gets wiped out. At the same time, they probably see no need to continually expand their operation or compete against other companies in an environment of scarcity. But then, yeah, how does someone on Earth get to be a serious vintner if they weren't born into a family with a cultural heritage vineyard? It would depend on how large the population of Earth is and how much land has been set aside for vineyards. There's presumably a larger community of vintners person can join, people who do it simply because it's what they like. Some of them will have vineyards off planet. If there is not a need to expand to keep going, if energy is free and abundant, and if Federation worlds have outgrown overpopulation and conquest, then land for such things might be plentiful on terraformed planets and asteroids.
"People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things" easy for picard to say. i wouldn't have any monetary/object wants if i had a room that could create anything i could ever dream of (holodeck), or a device that can just conjure objects/food/drinks for me whenever i want (replicator)
I mean they crew of the Enterprise don't really have any frame of reference to understand where the three old earthers are coming from. it would be like this comments section having to integrate someone from feudal European times into modern society.
I always felt that he would adapt fluidly to his new situation. And true enough one of the commenters here said he went off to become a starfleet negotiator to the Ferengei because of his financial expertise in the books. Thank you kind sir. Captialism isnt that bad, humanity under Roddenberry just took a different path. I love this show
Well, it did get better in the expanded universe, and the guy actually managed to be useful while utilizing his skills to the fullest, and it was glorious.
1:12 - World War three... the near collapse of the planets atmosphere... the drug wars... the eugenics war... Pretty sure your lawyers firm is anything but :P
Picard and viewers that remember the very first episode of TNG know exactly what happened to his late 20th century law firm. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Encounter at Far Point. - Court room scene. Historically intriguing captain. Very, very accurate. - Data - Mid-twenty first century. The post atomic horror. - Picard. Before this gracious court now appears these prisoners to answer for the multiple and grievous savageries of the species. - Bailiff Objection your honor. In the year 2036 the new United Nations declared that no Earth citizen could be made to answer for his race or forbearers. - Data - Objection denied. This is a court of 2079, by which time... more 'Rapid Progress' had caused all United Earth nonsense to be abolished. - Q - ---After Freezing and Unfreezing Lt. Yar Silence! Continuing these proceedings, I must caution you that legal trickery is not permitted. This is a court of fact. - Q - I recognize this court as one that agreed with that line from Shakespeare, Kill all the lawyers. - Picard - "Which was done." - Q -
2:45 “This is the 24th Century …Material needs no longer exist”. Says the boss with the luxury cabin and his own dedicated run-about ‘Captain’s Yacht’ (stowed under the saucer iirc).
Since StarTrek is a series discussing many matters that we find relatable, it of course cannot be radically envision entire new cultures completely alien to us, but is limited to merely create exxagerations of relatable things (commerce with Ferengi, Science with Vulcans, Honor with Klingons and Humans who find a balance between them), but it would be interesting to see.
I know Picard and certainly a decently sized chunk of the audience has contempt for this man, but I can only feel pity. This is my idea of a life devoid of fullness. He’s clearly intelligent and driven, but he devotes both to such earthly, meaningless pursuits. I love the ending of this episode because Picard’s answer to his “challenge” question gives me hope we may all be so free to pursue our heart’s content one day, as opposed to being bound by the shackles we currently are spiritually inhibited by.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 He reminds me a lot of Christopher in the TOS episode Tomorrow is Yesterday (Probably an episode of little import to many, but is one I adore nevertheless), because being scooped up into this future and its practically alien customs against his will was almost his fate, but at least he narrowly escapes it.
I like that fact that he suggests, in contrary to Picard's suggestion that the type of power that money brings, "..is an illusion". That man responds, "Really? I'm here aren't I? I should be dead." He's dead on!
@@wangson They're talking about two different realities. Depends *when* they're talking about. It spirals into semantics if you keep going. Is it money, truly, or science? Was it powerful even in his time if it could topple in importance eventually? But Picard's argued with far stupider people whose points could be shot down more quickly.
He's a Corporate Psychopath, the sort of person that has cheerfully, deliberately screwed and abused thousands of people on his way to 'success.' He deserves all the hate and contempt the internet can muster.
Actually you would still need some form of money (Federation credits) for some things replicators cannot possibly make, such as the 1951 Bowman Willie Mays card meant for Sisko (DS9) or other antiques/fossils/etc from the past.
I've always thought the replicator and transporter were the best thing to ever come of star trek, that is their greatest invention out of everything else. Can you imagine a world where every home has access to instant food, clothes, blankets, maybe even the ability to replicate logs, sheetrock, steel bars. With that what would the world turn into if we didn't need to do anything could we as a species motivate ourselves to be better and strive for exploring the galaxy? Or just sit at home and use the replicator until it breaks
Granted, money and the accumulation of wealth were supposedly phased out by Picard's time, but I posit that money was simply replaced by energy. The "credits" that you hear about in various iterations of Star Trek might actually refer to "energy credits".. credits which represent a set amount of energy. Various objects which can be obtained through replicators would have a total energy "cost" to manufacture (energy to matter conversion, after all) and you would need to have the proper amount of "credits" to replicate those objects..
I wish he would explain what he meant by "material needs no longer exist." So if the guy wants to live in a huge apartment on the ground floor next to the most happening club on Earth and eat caviar and drink champagne for every meal he just has to sign up? Even if there is infinite caviar and champagne, what if everyone wants to live on the ground floor next to the most happening club? Or is he just going to get assigned some stark Soviet cubby in a random city block where a robotic milkman delivers milk and bananas every day?
nvshd Most people live on Star Ship, plus who need a the most happening club when you have an holographic room were you can do everything you can imagine.
Star Trek is fiction, so you need to use your imagination based on the technology you know is in the show. Replicators mean virtually anything you *need* can be manufactured within seconds. Food, clothing, or any material possession you could hold is pretty much 'free' given the amount of energy they have access to. With interstellar travel, they obviously have the ability to mine any material in the social system. Transporters, anti-gravity systems, etc. would make transportation effectively free. The ability to travel to other star systems and planets... makes land virtually free. Restaurants today don't charge for water or WiFi, because it is so cheap per person, it isn't worth charging for. If replicators and energy are as common as the show shows... then food, rings, clothing, etc. would be treated the same as a glass of water. No point in charging for it. This then makes the rest of the trade economy pointless. If everyone has a machine in their living room which makes food, clothing, etc. is there any point in giving me money? What do I do with the money? What do I buy with it? Not clothes, food, etc. because that has no cost. If people don't need money, taxes quickly fall away. Likewise, does the government need 'money' if it has access to the same technology? Yes, obviously some things have subjective value beyond simply physical form. Everyone can't live by the ocean, so presumably there is some value for a waterfront house beyond the (virtually zero) value of the structure (due to automation and replicated materials). Artwork maybe, a home cooked meal, etc. Then again, it is hard to say what a post-scarcity society might view such things. They would likely have far more personal time on their hands and may want to make art for people or cook meals for people -- just as something to do. No point in charging people for it, because there may not be anything they could give you which you would need or want. Would people even bother with copyright laws if anyone can press a button and a holographic Mona Lisa appears on the wall? It is really hard to imagine what effect such technology would have on a society.
Accept of course... that isn't the case today. Many people today work well past retirement age even though they don't need the money. Then you have those in professions who are already multi-millionaires (professional sports, top doctors, lawyers, actors, musicians, etc.) who clearly keep working beyond any sane levels - life outcomes typically decrease after $60k a year. They work for reasons other than money -- pride, competition, they like the work itself, helping people, personal challenge, etc. Then you have an entire range of jobs which earn almost nothing yet people are in it, plus those who do professions part time (musicians, junior athletes, Olympic athletes, artists, certain teachers, etc.). Fairly clear those people would to that job if money wasn't an issue. Then their are jobs which have rewards other than money -- travel, meeting people, helping people, fame, power, influence, etc. In a post scarcity economy... someone is going to grow food. Why? Because my mom liked her garden when it made zero economic sense. Some people will grow food because they enjoy it. Or run a ranch... because they like horses. Some will cook food... because people like cooking. And people may still want to go out and eat at a restaurant -- because eating at home is boring after a while. And someone is still going to design clothes... because its a fun thing for people to do or so you can say you did it. It might be hard to imagine where such a society might go, but history has shown that people find things to do with extra time created by automation.
daro2096 your free to challenge yourself I could think of hundreds if things I would want to learn if I wasn’t stuck in the rat race and money was no longer a thing.
it might be true for some. but for many the rat race is what keeps them going. you come up with all kinds of things you want to do, but having nothing to do at all often leads to many people just wasting their time. often its the contrast to work that rewards hobbys.
I always wished I could add to or amend the line after Picard says "to improve yourself" by adding "and to improve the universe around you, it still isn't perfect"
Somehow the idea of anyone setting out to improve our shared universe, because “it still isn’t perfect”, sends shivers down my spine. I am Nomad. I am perfect. That which is imperfect must be sterilized.
I feel like Star Trek glosses over a lot of scarcity that couldn't be eliminated with a replicator. Like, who gets the beachfront property or the view of central park? It's actually quite dystopian that everyone who wants access to cutting edge technology needs to join a quasi military organization with a rigid command structure or leave the Federation so they can buy it from cultures that still do trade.
"Those Comm Panels are for official ship business" "Well if they're so important why don't they need an executive key?" - He's got a point, Starfleet ship security is amazingly lax, no wonder Khan managed to take over the Enterprise when they gave him the literal blueprints of the Constitution Class to look at because 'hospitality and friendship'.
Here's how I picture the post-money economy of Star Trek came to pass: It all started when the first replicators came online. The first units were massive bulky power-hungry monsters, limited in what materials they could produce. But even then, the massive benefits were undeniable. A construction project could have materials replicated on-site, rather than waiting for them to be shipped. Replicators quickly got more efficient and versatile, even moving beyond raw materials to some rudimentary manufactured goods and food items. But replicators also threw the economy into chaos. Precious metals suddenly weren't so precious anymore. Farming, mining, shipping and supply chain management interests were increasingly obsolete. Paper money also became increasingly irrelevant. What was the point if goods could be replicated? The Old Guard tried to pass laws barring or limiting the use of replicators, but that was just delaying the inevitable. Replicators still needed power, and that became the new currency: energy credits. Paper or electronic money still had use for goods that couldn't be replicated, but eventually currency was completely replaced by the energy credit. With increasingly improved fusion power reactors and solar batteries both in low-orbit and on every household rooftop, the post-scarcity society was born. Even the energy credit eventually became obsolete in the time of the United Federation of Planets. But in outer space and frontier worlds without developed infrastructure, e-creds would still be used.
It seemed like paradise for a short time. Then manufacturing sector collapsed, quickly followed by the agricultural sector, along with big pharma. Then people began to starve. Food riots were normal. Diseases made a comeback, as did communism. The trekkers suddenly discovered their 'paradise' become a living hell.
@@tonywebster8582 Thank you for such a thought-provoking insight. So original! You must have been a writer for that 1st Season Voyager episode, where Paris reached warp10 and turned into a space lizard :)
@@tonywebster8582 If you don't want to deal in fantasy, why the frell are you posting comments on a Star Trek video??? Do you not realize that FTL drives and matter replicators aren't real? Your prattling about communism bores the shit out of me. But I do thank you for your unintentionally hilarious post. Have a nice day!
I find it incredibly ironic how he goes about being able to control one's destiny. And yet, in the Federation because resources can easily be replicated, one can be anything they want and not have to worry. You want to be an artist, a musician, a chef, you can.
This should have been the focus of the Federation/Ferengi differences. Instead, by Deep Space Nine, the comedy element of the Ferengi gets emphasized a little too much, and the Federation's consistent shortages on practice commodities becomes almost comical as well.
The invention of the replicator could alter the economy in ways we can't even imagine. Imagine replicating anything you want out of thin air. Food, clothes, furniture, anything, and all for not cost. The only jobs left would be in the service sector. Barbers, salons, lawnmaintence, etc.
There is a Star Trek novel where he becomes the federation's ambassador to the ferengi.
Ferengi already have hookers. They snort blow while watching hookers get fully dressed.
And there is another one, set a few years later, where he becomes the Federations‘ Minister for Commerce.
name of novel?
Watching The Clock
There's still need for economic minded individuals but economics is on a macro scale for the federation. most of it's core territory has been introduced to the quality of living technologies that create the utopia where ones challenge is solely what one seeks for themselves..
In the Novels, with Mr. Offenhouse's expert financial background, he was made Federation ambassador to the Ferengi. Later he was appointed to Federation Secretary of Commerce to help in dealings of trade with other members and cultures outside the Federation.
L.Q. "Sonny" Clemonds ushered in a revival of 20-21st century music and became a popular traveling entertainer to obscure starbases and planetside bases to entertain Starfleet personnel who were in distant postings.
Clare Raymond decided to use her background and experiences and became a counselor of the temporal division and helped crew members of the USS Bozeman adjust to their time jump.
Thank you for that info. I always wanted to know what happened to ol' Sonny.
I knew Offenhouse would end up doing something with the Ferengi, one look at their society and he'd be hooked and they'd absolutely love him.
@@ReaverLordTonus and his 20th century knowledge of law, money, commerce and economics would give him a huge advantage over the Ferengi.
@@peterkoch3777 it wouldnt give him any more advantage than an average ferengi businessman has
@@peterkoch3777 It would give him an advantage over other humans in the TNG era in understanding and dealing with the Ferengi, as he does in the novel "Debtors' Planet"
"A military career has never been considered to be upwardly mobile."
*Julius Ceaser has entered the chat*
Federation:Sorry,the concept is incompatible,please try another one.
Ceasar was a son of governor of Asiana province, so....
not exactly a pleb...
*Brutus has entered the chat*
*Genghis Khan has entered the chat*: “Sit down, boy”
Napoleon......
"Your lawyer has been dead for 300 years!" "I don't think so: I owed him a lot of money"
LOL!
That one got a chuckle out of me :)
😆
In Blade 2 there was a lawyer for a vampire. Blade noticed : "you're human". He replied : "barely, I'm a lawyer". 🤣
GOD: If Hell's fumes don't stop leaking into Heaven I'll sue you.
SATAN: Oh yeah? Where are you gonna get a lawyer?
"Those comms panels are strictly for official business."
"Then why don't they require an executive key?"
"...Shut up."
...Wesley
Picad:"Those comms panels are strictly for official business."
"Then why don't they require an executive key?"
Picard: "COMPUTER. Deny access to comm panels from this room unless for medical emergencies.
Authorization Picard.
....satisfied?
*walks away*
@@shimata17 173467321476C32789777643T732V73117888732476789764376LOCK
"because everyone on this ship is well trained in self-discipline that such measures are not needed."
@@BigDogCountry DATALOCK!!
"People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things" *ACCUMULATES TONS OF ARTIFACTS FROM ACROSS THE GALAXY*
Knowledge...not equal to things.
Then there is latinum gold bars.
@@_Ekaros Captain Picard is happy to show his collection to anyone who is interested in it. The artifacts he has collected over the years don't represent any kind of monetary value to him, he doesn't keep them to enrich himself, gain power through them or make other people envious of him. Instead they are the physical embodiment of the memories, stories and experiences he has acquired when he obtained them.
Raw data and photographs/holograms can only tell you so much, sometimes you just need to be able to hold and feel an item to understand it's historical or cultural significance. That's also the reason Captain Picard still reads physical books, even though he could read all those stories from a tablet if he wanted to. The act of holding a book and turning pages while reading it immerses you into the story, giving you a connection to it you otherwise might not feel.
Emotional or educational attachment is not the same as monetary or value attachment
@@RudyBleeker this guy treks
I guarantee these people would have instant jobs with some history department at a University somewhere. They are living time capsules.
There is much more about being a historian than knowing stuff about the past.
Its a profession that is built on scientific and academic methods which you have to apply correctly.
They would definitly be an excellent interviewee for a historian though.
I bet Wall Street is a Museum then like Fort Knox is. That banker could work there giving tours. It was his former workplace after all.
@@Narrenspiel6 He's a walking primary source.
Just imagine if we somehow unfroze a guy from 1550. Instant 2 billion view video of "what was life like in 1550".
@@harizotoh7 Imagine unfreezing someone who actually knows how latin was pronounced...
The Grand Nagus: Finally, a huuu-man that makes some sense!
Yes!
Considering in the Novelisation he becomes the Federation Ambassador to the Freingi, that line might have actually been said.
I read this in Zek's voice.
that guy should join with the feringis
Actually from Quark's descriptions they practice it better than the US does.
At least until the end of DS9.
In the extended universe, he becomes the Federation Ambassador to Ferenginar.
I was thinking the same thing.
In the books, after his stint as ambassador to the Ferengi Alliance, he later becomes Federation Secretary of Commerce, a senior advisor to the President.
So, he wasn't about money, it was about power. And he managed to reach a level of power unimaginable in the 20th century.
he would make a good doctor smith.
Orville covered this brilliantly. In a world where production has become effortless material objects have no value. If you can press a button on a replicator and have a pile of diamonds, what worth are they? Instead respect becomes the new currency, being the best at what you do is valued. People are still greedy and self centred but the goal is to excel in your chosen field, even if its a humble profession. It’s a move from a individualistic society to a community based one.
mass is currency, whoever has the most mass and energy is the most powerful.
A society that respects you for being the best at what you do is about as individualistic as you can get.
A society with collective values would respect the ability of people to collaborate and participate in work together. It wouldn’t be about being the best, it would be about recognizing that working together is how we can be the best.
I can smell my target species of fish from three times the distance of anyone I've ever met.
Won't do me much good when fishing is considered a barbaric crime.
Heck, we can manufacture diamonds IRL, *now!* The usual marketing tactic to deal with that fact is that they are somehow not as good as "real" diamonds (in fact, they are often better).
@@peterschuerman being the best at what you do is still a core value in a collectivist society because you are bringing forth the best in you for the collective
That was a pretty good part for a guest star character actor. That guy nailed it pretty hard.
The actor, Peter Mark Richmon, was a great character actor in his day. Played Chrissy's reverend father on Three's Company.
I like that this guy points out that part of his reasoning comes from the notion of challenge. I'd like to think that in the world of ST, financially minded people like him who chased after success would enjoy a society based on personal achievement and renown a lot.
He actually found a challenge he enjoyed in the ST:TNG Timeframe. He became the Federation Ambassador to the Ferengi. Apparently, he was quite respected for his "Lobes" for business.
One thing I liked about later seasons and DS9 is the "Star Trek Economy" was fleshed out. They struck a good balance between the Utopian "no money needed" thing Gene Roddenberry made (i.e. Earth itself doesn't need money) yet keeping it realistic by showing an actual economy does exit (i.e. galactic trade between different peoples). But it's season 1, so basically nothing was consistent lol.
Roddenberry threw a hissy fit over Deep Space 9. The man was a petulant child when it came to his future being questioned.
I remember there was an interview by one of the writers or directors (I forgot which one, might even have been one of the actors from TNG) in which he questioned that IF Star Trek's philosophy was so widespread and accepted, there would be no NEED for a Starfleet, period.
@@Sizdothyx Starfleet is an empire that's what it does
To me the federation had an economy and even currency it's just the federation ensures basic needs such as shelter, food, water, education are all free and accessible. So if I wanted to study ancient history my food and education is free but let's say I one day want to buy a ancient earth book then I need to have credits as it's not a basic need that is how i picture the federation
@@Sizdothyx If this was reality then not even the Ferengi would remain capitalist for long, because the Federation would soon share replicator technology with them.
@@Sizdothyx That's slightly odd considering he died 2 years before DS9 first aired
This guy ended up being the Federation ambassador to the Ferengi.
Now that's the beginning of a potentially interesting piece of fan fiction! :-)
Herb Bluntman, it's not fanfiction. He is the ambassador.
What episode? It must be a DS9 because that's the only series I haven't seen all the eps.
To IMDB! No mention of Mark Richman appearing in any other ST series or movies.
Is it in a ST novel or something. I'd really like to know.
Herb Bluntman A novel. I forget which.
Thanks heymrk.
I should really give ST novels a try. I've been a fan my whole life and after more than 50 years, all I know comes from the TV series and movies and you can only watch those so many times before they get stale.
Peace and long life, my fellow Trekhead. :-)
It would have been a nice touch if we managed to see this guy on DS9 dealing with Quark.
+PickelJars I always thought he'd make a good ambassador to Ferenginar.
I think that that actually happened in one of the novels...
You are correct. It did. It might not have been the Ferengis, but it was another species like them.
In a way, he did. HE's the same actor who played Gul Ducat
@@Orlor Dukat is played by Marc Alaimo, this guy (Ralph Offenhouse) is played by Peter Mark Richman I'm afraid.
He actually becomes the ambassador to Ferenginar. He understands them in a way that no present Terran could. He makes a later appearance character-wise in STTNG I think, or maybe one of the later variants. As an ambassador as well, I think.
where did you read/see this? Probably is some non canon source I'm guessing
@@thesnare100 its on the OFFICIAL Trek wiki.
It's not canon. I also don't buy it because Offenhouse would rather be the guy earning wild crazy profit for himself in the galactic channels made available, working with or against Ferengi consortiums. No way he would be what is essentially a desk-bound politician.
"Aboard a starship, that is not necessary. We are all capable of exercising self-discipline" This may be an explanation why Kirk so stupidly gave access to complete technical documentation of the ship to complete strangers on several occasions. Nearly lost it too. You'd think he'd learn after the first time.
Imagine what the trekkers would do, if a ship that was far advanced than earth was found?
@@tonywebster8582 Keep it for themselves. They won't be sharing if there was only one, kinda like what happened in the soviet union. They'll figure out that it's unlikely such a ship would be produced under normal circumstances in their life times.
So that’s why every alien can hack their computer
Kirk: Hi there Mr....Khan? Here's navigation. Here's our weapons array. And here's helm. Anyway i'll leave you totally alone while I go to my ready room.
Kha "MUTINY MODE ACTIVATE!!!!"
Offenhouse: "The power to control your life."
Picard: "That sort of power is an illusion."
Founders: "Wait ten years and say that."
DarkNova50 the TNG view of economics always felt artificial.
TOS, had trade stations with currency.
Ds9 was a trade station at the edge of federation space and has to give crew a stipend.
Voyager had rationing and constant resource management.
Enterprise was pre “utopia”, set during a time of turmoil and was exploring where here was minimal support but maximum opportunity to gain/trade/expand/male-alliances.
STD got the jj-verse pox (easy tech-magic but endless demands of limited Human Resources).
And there stands the TNG federation. a bubble of “we are better than you” space cultists dismissive of any who can’t flip a mental switch and “just be like us”.
Yet Picard rightly stands as one of their best captains, diplomats and strategists.
No wonder everyone around them ended up trying a bit of warfare, all but the over-cautious/insular Vulcans (likely by learning hard lessons early) probably saw a state full of resources but low on defences or the will to protect them.
I mean the borders were patrolled by low number high cost literal generation ships filled with families and prone to sticking their noses into anything that looked remotely interesting).
@@IRMentat I'd be a little smug too if I lived in a culture where people weren't going hungry or bankrupt because of a necessary surgery.
@@RagitsuI hear that. Here's to a bright future, friend.
@@Vuxlort We only have to survive (potential) wars, climate change and the odd stray asteroids/meteors.
@@Ragitsu The trial never ends.
His rebuttal to Picard is so good
"That kind of power is an illusion."
"Really? I'm here aren't I? I should be dead, but I'm not"
Picard is still right. There was a freak chance that they would stumble upon his capsule. Besides, two other people who had basically no power got there two. Three different walks of life.
@@Jeroscope Most likely they were all rich. The singer sounded like he had a successful career, but he focused on pleasure and didn't care much about power. I think it was Paul Stanley who said, "Money only matters when you don't have it."
Picard didnt even need to verbally clown on him cause all the others did that during the episode, the audience also saw that not only did they find the capsule by chance but also most of the people were dead, only these 3 survived out of luck, not control
His rebuttal was garbage and showed an infantile lack of understanding. The fact that he was still alive was purely a matter of chance.
He could have just as easily been in one of the failed containers: Chance.
What if Picard had been in charge of the away team? Picard made it quite clear he would have left him there: Chance.
It would have far, far more likely been the case that his ship was not ACCIDENTALLY found: Chance.
What if he had been found by Romulans and spent the last few hours of his life being tortured for information: Chance.
What if he had awoken into a society HE would have designed, a society where only the rich are esteemed. He would have been put to work in a labor farm somewhere for a daily bowl of gruel: Chance.
The best thing that ever happened to him is that HIS vision of society did not come to pass.
I'm sure that if Elon Musk had not been born into fabulous wealth, he would be exactly the same person he is today. Right.
All of you crying that he was only found by chance, so that proves his claim of power is false, fail to realize that his power bought him that chance in the first place. A poor man never had the opportunity to roll the dice. He did, because he had the power. Picard is wrong, and the fact that even the writers didn't give Jean-Luc a reply shows even they couldn't deny the truth. Because it is true. Those without power would like to pretend that power is illusory, but it is real.
Actually, it would be really interesting to see a more detailed examination of how economics would work in a post-scarcity society. For example, whole industry sectors would just die if people could simply replicate virtually anything they want.
Read the Venus equilateral series by George o smith. Pandora millions
It is interesting to think about what may or may not still be around. We know restaurants are still a thing even with food replicators, as are bars and clubs. Presumably banks and the financial sector aren’t really around anymore (at least not on Earth). People don’t have to worry about food, housing or medical care so having a job is likely somewhat voluntary and more a matter of finding something you’d like to do with your time
@@RonnieFlare17 there's no scarcity of anything in context. replicators end scarcity of capital. antimatter ends scarcity of energy. warp drive ends scarcity of land. artificial intelligence ends scarcity of labor.
can never have a truly post scarcity society. For example, there's only one Paris, but a lot of people want to live there. :)
Having said that, obviously replicators would change a lot...robots in general would basically eliminate human manual labor. There would be bricklayers, but their job would be intellectual. They figure out where the bricks are to be laid with mathematics and design, and then show the robot. Then they kick back and watch the robot due what a human would sweat and break their back doing, and do it faster and more accurately. :)
@@scifirealism5943
" warp drive ends scarcity of land."
Nah, again, there's only one Paris. There's only one [desirable city on Mars], etc. Land would still cost money.
btw you don't need FTL to go to other star systems. Merely going 99.99999999% the speed of light (perfectly acceptable under Special Relativity) can get you to the nearest star in four years and to that TRAPPIST system with several habitable zone planets in 51 years. (or only a few months if you could accelerate at 1 G the whole time, of course 51 years would still pass on Earth.)
For those who are curious about which episode is this from:
"The Neutral Zone"
Eric P. Alvaro thank you
Eric P. Alvaro thanks
Was the first episode to truly indicate the Borg. Outpost along the Neutral Zone suddenly vanishing, as if torn from the ground itself. Happened to both the Federation and the Romulans. We would later learn who actually did it.
Best episode in season one, one of the best of the whole series.
This was when the Romulans were introduced in the show, and it was really fascinating how they decided to do this at the same time. Really great episode and I'm glad they did it, though a full episode of them just dealing with their "time-travellers" would have been interesting too.
Oppenhaus: "My lawyer was a member of a very important firm. Rest assured, that firm is still operating."
Picard: "......................computer, ten thousand units of United States currency dollars, circa 1985, non correlative serial numbers."
_wwwwwwzzZZZZZZZzzzzzmmmm_
Picard: "You can have all the money you want. Serve yourself. Nobody needs it."
_walks out_
Picard: "And STAY AWAY OF THE COMM CHANNEL!"
_walks away_
That would of been hilarious. Dude would of found out that its worthless.
Seriously Picard could have replicated it and finished the line with.... "don't go spending it all in one place" 🤣
In the old series' episode, "Catspaw," Korob conjures up a bunch of jewels, to which Kirk responds that he could manufacture such stones by the ton on his ship.
Omg that would have been incredible
😂😂😂😂🤣🤣
Captain Picard has a bigger cabin than everybody else and it has more stuff in it.
So he needs consurism then?
Rank has its privilages.
CO's cabin!
On Naval Vessels officers have State Rooms not cabins. The CO and XO have large staterooms compared to other officers abord. Junior Officers share State Rooms.
not "than everybody else", only "than anybody in the other 8 decks of the upper saucer section that fit crew cabins"
the saucer section alone has 15 decks.
It would be cool if DS9 had picked up this dude and place him in an episode or two rivaling Ferengies.
This is a future that we should all strive for because these people are really free, because they don't have to worry about how to pay rent next month or how to pay university for my kids. Everyone can do what he or she wants, what fills the person for a living. Mankind is able to achieve great things when hunger is defeated, everyone has access to free medical care, there is world peace and nobody needs to worry any more whether they can finance a flat. When the worries of everyday life are gone, people can surpass themselves because they can put all of their brain capacity into projects. I'm talking about architecture, science, art, music, and space exploration. The earth is then a heavenly place.
Reality calling........pipe dreams are cancelled until further notice.
“We’ve grown out of our infancy” only professor X can deliver a line like that. That’s why he’s the most popular star trek character
Tell that to the people slaving in the Dilithium
mines all over the quadrant..
In Voyager its established that the Federation uses outdated EMHs for mining.
@@theshlauf And those EMHs were sentient beings
You forgot at TOS, Dilithium miners are wealthy people
Slaving? Come on, they were rolling in the dough, and living a nice life.
@@billc6762 Which debunks the claim that the Federation doesn't use money. Maybe they just call it differently, but currency undeniably exists.
Imagine if we could create a society like that. All basic needs met to their fullest extent. Nobody would ever have to work for food, energy, communication, housing, clothing... just imagine what we could achieve.
We can't imagine. And that's still our problem.
It was always the idea of Star Trek to see a hopefull future instead of what we see now on the newer series
It sounds like a fantasy at this point, but realistically we are not far off. 3D printing, AI scanning objects to create 3D models, AI is now making phenomenal art and in a very short period of development. 3D printing is making organs, and soon enough better quality meat than anyone has ever eaten once sequences correctly. Robots are getting more and more advanced, the world is transitioning, even if slower than necessary, to green energy sources, and much more.
All the world truly needs to do to end the need for most things is advance recycling things down to their core elements and components, and continue to develop 3D printing objects and sequencing food for the same. Recycling, once a certain level is achieved, will turn our oceans of garbage into just about everything we could ever need. Done with something? Recycle it. Animal waste, including humans? Toilets could recycle it in the end, back to the elements that make it up. Your waste could be half of your dinner later that same day. It sounds revolting, but recycling would make it so you would never be the wiser health and taste wise. It would be like it was made with any other healthier substance you would prefer, but it could be made of anything, as the original matters form no longer is a factor.
What would a world look like when this is possible? When the public sees and understands that anything and everything being sold is no longer worth anything? Just the energy to print it, which will only become more and more advanced. Faster, more efficient, more dynamic in capability. And green energy would be able to supply more than is necessary to print and replace all the components necessary to macro out as many of these devices as we want. As many energy capturing systems, as many advanced 3D printers, as many as many robots we want to install things for us. By the time we have recycling, 3D printing and green energy where we need them for this, AI should be phenomenal and capable of advancing itself and designing better than humans can probably ever do themselves.
It does sound like an impossible future when you look at the world today, but it's not far off technologically or chronologically, as long as we fight to keep such developments in the public's awareness.
@@alterworlds1629 Hope.
China is doing that now. They have eliminated poverty. There is no starvation or homelessness. America could do this too it's extremely easy, this policy of poverty is deliberate.
Trying to learn about 24th century economics from Star Trek would be like trying to learn about 21st century capitalism from watching documentaries about life on a US Navy nuke sub. You're seeing a tiny shard of the society, and indeed the shard that is least affected by economics.
"There's no trace of my money. My office is gone. What do I do?"
The words of a rich man during his waning years.
Who lost.
More like a rich man that didn't get a pre-nup before he married that gold-digger.
Speaking as someone who has all physical needs met for pretty much the rest of my life, I'd say there's never enough time to do and learn all the things I want to. Never have I been so busy, as when I chose to retire.
That country singer was more likely to adapt to his new enviroment than the others.
of course.
A) Country music may not even be a thing anymore
B) He operates on the adage 'Everything old enough is new again'
C) His lifestyle allows him to react to change very easily.
@@mpittard21 Well put, Matthew. Of course, music was clearly still a thing to humans even in the 24th century, even if it's not country music he could always adapt to what is popular at the time.
Chad Morgan is no longer around, what about achy breaky heart? Do hillbillies still exist, or where they forced to conform too?
@@tonywebster8582 Hillbillies probably have their own planet somewhere.
@@LordProteus That would be a fun place to visit.
"On Earth, there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. Well, it's easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise. Out there in the Demilitarized Zone, all the problems haven't been solved yet. Out there, there are no saints - just people. Angry, scared, determined people who are going to do whatever it takes to survive, whether it meets with Federation approval or not!"-CMDR Sisko
Picard never realized this. He like most of the Federation are up on their moral high horse and do not grasp this simple concept. Oppenhaus clearly does and he doesn't know there is a problem.
I know. It's like watching the wealthy business executives in their skyscraper penthouses as they look down on everyone else and admonish them for not having class.
erwin669 boom there you go
Harry Mudd: I used to have a life, Captain, a good one. A respectable business. That all got blown up, because of your goddamn war.
Cpt Lorca: Starfleet didn't start this war.
Mudd: Of course you did. The moment you decided to boldly go where no one had gone before. What did you think would happen when you bumped into someone who didn't want you in their front yard?
Ash Tyler: You're siding with the enemy?
Harry Mudd: I'm not siding with anyone. But I sure as hell understand why the Klingons pushed back. Starfleet arrogance. Have you ever bothered to... look out of your spaceships down at the little guys below? If you had, you'd realize that there's a lot more of us down there than there are you up here. And we're sick and tired of getting caught in your crossfire.
secondlastnameleft where was this?
Don't remember it
It's either all of us or none of us. Making the world work for 100% of humanity, in the shortest possible time, through spontaneous cooperation, without ecological offense or the disadvantage of anyone should be our number one goal as a species.
Hey it's the Agent For H.A.R.M.!
Hi love your vídeos : )
Oh snap. Found one of my favorite youtubers in the comments of a random trek vid. Nice.
Oh hello, fellow MST3k fan!
Agent for H.A.R.M. talks economics on 'Trek..... BAH-da-DAH-DAH!
Get to the Judo range.
I love Enterprise set designs so much more from the first season. Crew and guest quarters got so much more dark and colorless as the series went on. The Enterprise as we know it would never have been so bright and optimistic if it had been designed under Berman's watch. Just look at DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise: "The only color you are allowed to use is GRAY, and you may have a MAXIMUM of two 40-watt light bulbs per room."
I mean, DS9 was/was set on a Cardassian station, so that at least makes sense.
@@SpaceNerd117 aye, I was referring implicitly to the Defiant as well as Starfleet settings like Starbase 375. Interestingly, the runabouts, designed for TNG, have interiors that are much more colorful and pleasant to look at.
@@SpaceNerd117 way too many times in ds9, yoh can't see anything outside of the characters outlines. There's a youtube channel that improves the look of it with some clips, it really allows you to see the effort they put in
@@Josh_Fredman I mean, the Defiant was intentionally made to be bare-bones in-universe; it was a small combat-focused vessel, designed to combat the Borg. I agree that maybe some rooms weren't the most aesthetically bright and colourful, but I did feel that some rooms were an upgrade over the ones we see on the Enterprise. I always felt that Janeway's office, for example, was a straight upgrade over Picard's, with its huge windows giving a great view of space, the lovely seating area that seemed well-build for hosting guests for diplomatic missions and the like.
I gather from ST, they take care of people, maybe grew up. Use of tech stuff to help, not hinder. Forget war, differences, we are ALL Humans. I hope we go the same path this series is about.
That was one of Roddenberry's core ideas....
Dude, these future people really need to learn the importance of a password.
In fact, they do seem to have one. Notice that when accessing certain things in the computer, they must identify themselves to the computer first. This is their password, as the computer can identify them from their voice.
But emergency communication being delayed by having to do that every time could lead to people dying. Hence the ship's official communication channels being open.
The ship should have more than a few open comm channels that anyone can use.
Wait a sec! In this era of supposed abundance, there is a scarcity of something (bandwidth)? That would seem to undermine the very premise of this episode.
@@Hunpecked Radio waves are limited to how much information they can transmit, especially if you were transmitting to earth from deep space because of all the interference from suns, planets, black holes. quasars, and other phenomenon.
Pretty sure there is, which is why not just anyone can tell the ship to self destruct.
The confidence with which he said that his law firm from 300 years ago was still around LOL.
"That kind of power is an illusion, now excuse me while I go make choices that will massively effect the lives of millions."
Picard is talking about the power that comes with monetary wealth being an illusion in the 24th century.
@@johntrevy1 But Offenhouse wasn't talking about wealth he was talking about "power to control your life, to control your destiny."
@@TheStapleGunKid Which in 20th/21st century Earth (particularly USA) came from how much money one has.
I feel like I'm watching Shakespeare meets Dynasty
The challenge is to
Improve yourself.
Enrich yourself.
Enjoy it.
Good values.
I don't understand competitive nature in sports or games.
I understand cheating in them even less.
I desire to do better...for me.
If I don't achieve it legitimately for myself, then I don't actually win.
It really does show why the Enterprise's transmissions were so popular. Lot of people on Earth with a lot of time on their hands, looking for the next inspiration. You can only learn so many musical instruments, and all the competitive video games are dominated by superintelligent aliens trolling all the other species.
In a way this reminds me when Mark Twain was talking to Troi about economies, and conflicting timelines. Too bad our society is so dependent on money, but really it's hard to imagine a society where money doesn't exist, that is PERFECT science fiction.
Well, the replicator technology basically makes money irrelevant because it cab provide a never-ending supply of everything you want. So, it might just work, if we reach this level of technological sophistication... and also grow as a people
I can imagine a society where kids just replicate a TV and an Xbox Z-29-Delta (or whatever) and spend their lives gaming.
"Wouldn't you like to join Starfleet?"
"What for?"
"So you can see the galaxy!"
"Again... what for?"
No personal incentive = no personal motivation. That's what makes this science fiction -- it ignores human nature but still works. Because the writers _say_ it works. Not because there's a chance in Hell it actually would.
I have a feeling humans will get to this point,just look at the richest guy on the planet Elon Musk wanting to live a minimalist life,it's not really science fiction only 🙂
@@JohnCastleSmokeless you could say the same thing about sleeping.... Why play video games when you can just dream. Perhaps there a are gradients. The very first episode of star trek with captain pike has them meeting aliens who's own brain's evolved to experience reality about as tactile as our own.
Seven of nine's first hand experience of the omega molecule was something she clearly valued experiencing her self and definitely one of the highlights of her experience as an individual on voyager, on top of that the borg have a special appreciation of the molecule so she might have been tempted to toxically pine to be reintegrated into the collective to better appreciate it.
There are so many way to exhibit unconscious behavior. Most infamously ,actually; Is topical. Psychopathy. And ceo's are disproportionately psychopaths. I consider that to be a cognitive dysfunction, like god's light everything in the universe is attached to meaning, Hell is a true void that people willfully choose to be in(psychopaths could kill themselves. And normal people go through forms of death all the time. ). Psychopaths have better appreciation of the social landscape and clout, however without even realizing it they always slip up and show their ass, cause the problem of lies for one thing. In Dark Souls lore videos I learned that people who attempt to ape the beauty and power of the noble dragons, there's a deep sense among most artists to go your own path, they end up these half baked, half asses torturous eldritch abominations
I mean we've already threw up our hands and let mother nature deal with the hard problem of perception in A.I. Our idea of A.I. was that every line of code would be curated by a programmer . Instead we train them and use Neural nets. Cause that's what's sensible and practical. The people who think they can make something from nothing is directly analogous to wanting to be in a true void-Hell.
@@JohnCastleSmokeless There's people willing to explore and see the stars, just like there are people willing to stay at home and learn to code or learn another language. Having access to resources and programs that make it easier to travel through space doesn't mean everyone will do so.
You could argue that necessity drives some people to do things, which is fair. Claiming absolutely *no one* would do anything without necessity, however, is inaccurate.
I'm still amazed by how Deep Space 9 has disproved much of what Picard has said.
Feringinar is a non-aligned world. That's why Nog needed Sisko's approval to apply to Starfleet Academy.
TNG = Roddenberry's creation
DS9 = Berman's beast
There's yiur explanation
DS9 was created by a fool that was too in love with subversion. Every single thing that fool did was simply based on subverting TNG.
@@GeorgeMonet Deep Space 9 was written by someone who knew that people weren't analogues for ideologies. Star Trek operates on the logic that people would shift their need for a "want" and change what people are to the core of their being. This is not the case in regards to the individual. Roddenberry may have had an idea, but he had a terrible understanding of the human condition. Did he expect a utopia to be a utopia because everyone got along? Families argue and throw tantrums; children and parents barely reach an understanding and we expect there to be no singular consequence? Please. Deep Space 9, flawed as it was at times, did the Star Trek fandom a favor by taking a match to their safe spaces. If the world was so damn sterile, there wouldn't be a need for a Starfleet, period, and it definitely wouldn't be run by people like Picard.
Does it? Enlight me, exactly where we see Sisko personal fortune? Or Bashir manor on Beverly hills buyed from his millions free of taxes? Or actual taxes (in the federation, that is). DS9 is about "ei, trek universe can also be rough" but not capitalists. As a frontier post, near a world recently recuperating from a brutal campaing of brutal ocupation, there's black market, contraband and illegal stuff and that's mostly what DS9 Starfleet and bajoran personnel deal with. But that doesn't imply currency. Not even economy. Black market is an unstable, untrustfull net of contacts to interchange high risk, valiable stuff, but it has no rules, no offer demand and no fixed currency or trade rules. That is not economy. That's mob bussiness.
I always loved these ideals.
Sadly they are not realistic. For example, the idea of not having money anymore is nonsense. For the common citizen, not needing money to survive because food, water, building materials for homes and infinite energy means they can have everything they need to survive for practically no cost by the state. But for everything else, the state will need to have some kind of currency and a concept of material value in order to interact with the rest of the Galaxy. A society with no money or concept of material possession or worth is isolated from the rest of the Galaxy.
Who knows what the future looks like, but, even if such ideals are hypothetically not 100% achievable, we can at least be 99.99% as close to an optimistic future as possible. I like these ideals too.
@@LordProteus The Federation actually uses Material things and compressed Latinum with primitive Societies that are still stuck with Capitalism.
@@LordProteus Unless the other societies you interact with have similar values, a lack of currency, and no need of trade. If your society is self sustaining and all its needs are met for each of citizen within, why would you need currency to interact with another similar society? Or even to interact with a society unlike yours? The interaction with another culture is no longer cemented in the idea of economic expansion for either. The interaction is about the cultural exchange.
@@dr.strangelove9815 Something worth living for.
Picard- I love researching history
Cryogemic man- I am history
Picard- Go away i'm not interested
But can the Federation's advanced technology cure his boneitis?
It will take at least a thousand years before Wall Street investment bankers can be cured of boneitis.
@@engineerzerochannel "My only regret is... that... I.... have.... boneitis!!"
@@engineerzerochannel No it won't. The trekkers will ignore evolution, and steal that medicine.
Lol!
I think i may be in love with you.
That was one thing I liked about after season one. They still kept the utopian ideals, but toned down the condescending attitude that characters towards "backwards" alien species and past humans.
Yep
Yeah. It was a bit overdone.
I actually liked the condescending attitude. It showed that humans have progressed somewhere. We too would be condescending if we met a medieval person who approves of slavery and has no understanding of human rights.
When I was young and this first aired, I'd imagine myself in their situation. It's a good episode.
I would much prefer living in the Federation than now
@@SamuelBlack84 It is a tv show not reality. Federation will never happen in real life mainly because there are no aliens and human intellect is somewhat finite.
This is one of my FAVOURITE Star Trek clips of all time!
Star Trek is much more than just shooting, space ships... and more recently, sex and bad language.
Thanks for sharing!
More recently? Well, double dumb-ass on you.
What is 'Amok Time'? I almost thought for a moment it was about Vulcan sex rituals. Nah, I must be deluded.
@@Jokie155 Nah, you must be intellectualy lazy or limmited. Philosophicaly contemplating about a subject is not the same as having mindles, empty and untalented writting of STD/STP.
@@Jokie155 There's also The Naked Now, the second ever episode of TNG that shows Data declare he's "fully functional" to a scantily clad Tasha Yar before later waltzing onto the bridge like he just won the lottery.
"Material needs no longer exist." Sweet, I can lay around all day eating replicated food, and watching Andorian porn, "That's not my antenna."
Thing is, if you live on earth? Yeah, you could... I'd hope you'd intend to do something you l ike... fishing, writing, painting, cooking for people, singing, plays.. anything you wanted to do. When you can replicate food, clothing, drink... anything, it becomes "what can I do that I want to do?"
@@jackbrennan1125 Klingon Hentai?
-If Kim Cardassian is still alive...
@BrownHawk2 kirk is a savage compared to Picard.
A brute who punches everything, a womanizer.
He is Murica in space. Nothing as refined or intelligent as Picard's series.
@BrownHawk2 Yes, people still use money in the star trek universe (although TNG's writers were never really consistent about it) what changed is that no matter what job you have you can always afford to live in what we would consider luxury. teachers, politicians, maintenance workers, Miners, etc all have the same standard of living (utopian abundanc) and the only people who struggle materially are colonists on the frontiers.
the second major thing is that humans are no longer culturally motivated by acquiring material wealth anymore. instead pretty much everyone seeks to better themselves, and find and accomplish what satisfies them. some people go into Starfleet, but the world also has people doing stuff off screen. people are still makeing Art, composing music. running restaurants. people still go into business, still hire employees. the change is that everyone is free to do what they want, by Picard's time no one goes through school going "well I don't really want to work here but I need the money" people just figure out what they want to do, and they work towards their own goals.
This guy is right about security acsess to panels. There are always non fleet people on the bord of Enterprise.
Also i don't understand how those three people ended near Neutral Zone. Theirs ship was launched pre-warp era
Could’ve drifted through space, caught up by solar winds, or picked up as a trinket by a spacefaring Species and then lost.
Micro-Wormhole.
Maybe someone wanted them to breed?
The Ferengi picked it up, realized there was nothing of value in it and then dumped it back out.
Maybe there's a species that does that.
This was such a great episode.
"I'm here" That blew Picard away.
He could have answered "So are the other 2 gentlemen... but none of them is as obsessively greedy as you"
that still wouldn't be a knockout reply
Picard's reply would be:
"And you were rescued because of a COMMUNIST starship"
Chew on that capitalist guy.
+cr4yv3n The Federation is fascist; not communist.
You're an idiot...there is nothing "fascist" about Star Trek. There is no PRIVATE PROPERTY or nationalism or any of the bullshit of fascism.
One of my favorites. I would've liked to see Data go on tour with the CW singer. Together, they'd find a large and loyal audience in the 24th Century.
Hillbillies have not yet been assimilated?
"I find myself intrigued by your sub-vocal oscillations A singular development of cat communications." Thems some mighty fine lyrics right there.
Maybe Data could channel his inner Bob Wheeler.
This is actually a KEY SCENE for the whole "Star Trek socialism" case.
Indeed. But little do people realise that this was based upon a real concept called The VENUS PROJECT.
Roddenberry was good friends to Jacque Fresco who was an adviser to the industry. He came up with Tablets in Demolition Man, The city designs, the Resource Based Economy, there are even Documentaries which capture him actually saying "Prime Directive" in the corporeal sense as well as the line "The essence of wisdom begins with.. I do not know".
It's amazing. They are based in Venus, Fl, MI.
In that it is a classless, moneyless society, sure. But socialism doesn't account for technological advancements, such as replicators.
Also, we never see how civilians live, just how Starfleet does things.
@@primotef8863 There are hints that the society is a kind of bolshevik utopia.
@@TheLoyalOfficer Like what?
This only shows a semi-utopic future, it does not explain how they got there, this can easily have nothing to do with socialism, because socialists aren't the only ones saying "we want a future where people have their needs met and everyone is happy". Even in a 100% capitalist society, once scarcity dissapears, money would too.
This is in my top five of favorite TNG episodes (Neutral Zone) This Ep harks to two other works that I have always enjoyed:
- The James Taylor song "Frozen Man"
and
- The "Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer" sketch from Saturday Night Live with the inimitable Phil Hartman!
It's funny that in this episode they clearly establish that they don't need for anything anymore, and yet as the seasons went on it was shown that they really do still have them.
I do have some questions about the Star Trek economy. Picards brother owns and runs a family orchard... How do they keep the orchard in the family. What if someone else wanted the orchard? What about owning an island home on Hawaii with a beautiful view and access to the beach. I understand with a replicator most possessions have no value but land probably would. Even with a holideck, the actual land would have value, some things would be collector items. How do those transactions take place?
And why does his brother an orchard? Aren't replicators good enough for baldy Picard's brother? Does he need 'currency' for this endeavour?
@@tonywebster8582 His brother is sentimental, and wants to preserve his family's heritage by growing wine the old-fashioned way. He also has a wife who cooks - _cooks!_ - because they don't have a replicator.
Just because they don't have money in the future doesn't mean they don't have property, though. Private property is a basic human right, and the most consistent thing about the Federation in every _Trek_ series is that it upholds the rights of individuals. Robert Picard probably has a legal title to the vineyard because it belongs to him - he lives there; he works there. Almost all of its value is the product of his own creativity and that of his ancestors who let it to him. It would be an outrageous violation of his natural and civil rights if someone squatted on it or dispossessed him of it.
@@CountArtha But we saw in the Picard series that the family owned the farm since at least the 20th century and yet had made the choice to abandon the property for centuries. It wasn't until the early 24th century did the family go back to their French land. This means for centuries the land was kept in title to the Picards even if they weren't using it, quashing any kind of homesteading requirement to keep land as an ownership item. This is just plain and simple land hoarding, no different than what is commonly done by investors today.
I remember the story behind this episode was that it was written with a cryogenically frozen Harry Mudd in mind. Unfortunately with the passing of Roger C. Carmel shortly before it was shot resulted in them having to do a rushed adaptation of the original script into the episode we know. Personally I'd love to read that original script and see how Mudd would have impacted the Next Generation.
Should we also do the same to the trekkers? And reawaken them, so they can become the new cave people?
Carmel died almost a year before TNG premiered. This episode’s script was rushed and unpolished, though, due to the 1988 writer’s strike beginning within days of the writing of the last two episodes of season 1.
They've done some interesting things with Mudd in episodes of Discovery.
Offenhaus could have been a very interesting character with a recurring role in TNG.
Why?
He would be like a libertarian moron of today.
Endlessly repeating stupid shit and expecting different replies.
@@cr4yv3n Diversity of skin but not diversity of thought.
@@jmd1743 meaning?
@@cr4yv3n I don't mind different skin tones or body structures, but I hate different opinions that don't align with my own. Those who're not aligned with myself will be demeaned and torn down.
@@jmd1743 which are those opinions?
I may actually put this episode in the top five favorite episodes of Star Trek (in the whole franchise!). I'm realizing now with these clips how well it was freaking written!
I'm pretty excited now that I won the auction 15 or so years ago and own Leon Rippy's Star Trek "pajamas" uniform that he wore during this episode. :-)
but where they change scenes, they dropped the middle one, where the banker makes it to the bridge, where he realizes the Romulan Cpt is fishing for information
@@steveeverett1736 Yes, that one is an awesome scene as well. But my favorite scenes are where we get to learn about these "sleepers" as individuals. That is where this, for me anyway, episode SHINES.
They should have done a sequel show to this episode to show how all of these 3 turned out and what they ended up doing.
i would bet money there are like 10 noevels that do that
It actually was supposed to be Harry Mudd originally. (the bumbling version from TOS, not Disco's cold-hearted criminal)
Follow up episodes are more DS9's territory. Especially unexpected consequences of decisions that seemed right at the time (TOS episode "Mirror. Mirror").
I wish I could give more than a like.
I consider this Star Trek episode, to be the best, ever made
Great character actor. In everything. First one that comes to mind is Jason Takes Manhattan! :)
Imagine their Holo-novel. They would be famous on that alone. Imagine being a 24th century citizen experiencing the Beatles for the first time brought to you by someone who actually saw them and was around. It would be like talking to one of Mozart's fan club members or standing around watching VanGough work in real time.
Also, imagine the whole "Improving yourself" aspect. Think of it. How many planets and alien species are in the Federation alone? You could easily spend the rest of your life as just a tourist on hundreds if not thousands of different worlds. I HAVE to visit Qo'noS and Rigel and spend a month or two meditating with Vulcan monk and debating literature with a Cardassian.
My first thought was snarky but the next four or five were positive so I'll stick with those.
Here I sit, 5 years after this video was published and 30 years after this episode first aired and I'm amazed by the conversations that are going on in this comment section. Trekheads, myself humbly included, are truly some very thoughtful, perceptive, and intelligent people.
I find the perception of Star Trek's universe as being "communist" particularly fascinating. I've always felt that Gene's vision was a world that had transcended all existing 20th century political ideologies in favor of a genuinely workable utopia. Rather than "communist", I think it's more based on mutually beneficial and willing cooperation between individuals and civilizations.
Live long and prosper everybody. :-)
How do you determine what is beneficial and how much it is worth? How do you measure that? How do you exchange that for something of equivalent value?
Don't you need to set a price for that?
Resources are not infinite, even Starfleet doesn't have unlimited resources, all that commie drivel Picard spouts is nothing but idiocy and wishful thinking.
@@dattebenforcer I imagine you look at results I guess. The advent of replicator technology has fundamentally changed the core of human desires, especially after enduring a devastating nuclear war.
Ku Dastardly - Look up the Mouse Utopia experiments.
And shouldn't you look at results? Results are what impact people in the real world, all your good intentions mean nothing if you end up causing suffering.
@@dattebenforcer Ah, I'm guessing you're referring to the Rats of NIHM, right?
Anyways by "results", I'm not talking about testing out some large grand social expriment, but rather more like looking up a track record of whatever endeavor one wants to pursuit to measure the value of benefit, but kinda on a more personal level.
ku dastardly - but you are talking about an entire society, an entire civilization.
When you're harnessing the power of stars and can materialize anything you need, money does seem kinda pointless.
Really is. Its why today, its being suppressed to the max. Oh well, idiots in power.
And yet there is latinum.
Money is a measure. It's what allows trade between disparate resources and services, it's what allows apples to be equated with oranges and labour to be associated with apples. Unfortunately, it's allowed the artificial accumulation of resources since all resources decrease in value over time, food are perishable, durable goods wear out and become worthless, labour is most valuable when it is needed and of least value once done. Now, we generally allow inflation to in part account for the decrease in value but as being a fungible interchange, money can never mirror the true value or rather utility that it represents the exchange of. Like the concept of a mile exists regardless how you travel so will money regardless of how many replicators and energy sources you have. What may change is the fungibility of money, money already have conditions in the world of academic research grants so with digital currencies, it could have enforcible conditions for common use as well. You could have "credits" that could only be redeemed for your daily food, that could only be redeemed for your rent or mortgage, all with appropriate expirations. Ironically, during the early days of the US, money often had expiration dates. Ben Franklin wrote a lot of essays about money.
@@johnwang9914 I'm well aware of the usefulness of money in a limited resource economy, but in an economy where everything is virtually free, money is not as useful to the average person. Now, very large projects that require more resources or energy than is readily available may still require money or credit of some sort, but this video is dealing with individuals.
@@momentary_ ah, then why the need of acquisition that drive the Ferengi? Drinking in Quark's bar or partaking in his holosuits isn't free and there was a TNG/DS9 crossover where Riker let it be known he had some type of income. And not all societies worked the same way. Even the Klingons, IIRC, still had a monetary economy. Also, there had to be some kind of commerce on earth as well. Yes you could go to your replicator and ordered up a surf and turf with a 3 pound lobster but what if you wanted to take a vacation? Or wanted a mode of transportation(vehicles still exist in the 24th century) or if you wanted your child in the finest schools? I'm quite sure Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, and Yale were still pretty exclusive. Also, Ben Sisco's father owned a restaurant on earth. Could I simply point to a building and say, "That's mine and I want to open up a massage parlor". This is one of the "we've eliminated all want" paradoxes never explained.
I like the way that by the end of this escapade Mr. Offenhouse would have seen enough to know he could have a fulfilling career here.
For starters he found out he could still size people up and gage what their motivations were.
I’ve always been curious about how his brother owns a vineyard. Can anybody just ask for a vineyard? I assume that it was inherited from the family. So it’s a feudal system? If your parents owned a vineyard, you just inherit it? How can a non vineyard owner ever come to own one? Some people seem to own their own space ships. Can anybody just replicate one? Seems to me that everybody would want to be a vineyard owning space traveler.
My guess is some kind of homesteading provision, i.e. you have to live there to keep the land. Hence, when Picard's brother died in the fire, the land should have been released back into a homesteading pool since Jean-Luc didn't immediately go back and retire from Starfleet to live there. Lots of holes.
@@oldtwinsna8347 economics is hard. The writers probably just focus on space battles
It's a good question. There must be a legal provision for maintenance of family properties that keep alive old earth traditions that are deemed to have cultural and historical value. The Picards get to keep growing their grapes and making their wine if they want to, but they don't have to worry about how they'll survive if the vineyard somehow gets wiped out. At the same time, they probably see no need to continually expand their operation or compete against other companies in an environment of scarcity. But then, yeah, how does someone on Earth get to be a serious vintner if they weren't born into a family with a cultural heritage vineyard? It would depend on how large the population of Earth is and how much land has been set aside for vineyards. There's presumably a larger community of vintners person can join, people who do it simply because it's what they like. Some of them will have vineyards off planet. If there is not a need to expand to keep going, if energy is free and abundant, and if Federation worlds have outgrown overpopulation and conquest, then land for such things might be plentiful on terraformed planets and asteroids.
"People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things" easy for picard to say.
i wouldn't have any monetary/object wants if i had a room that could create anything i could ever dream of (holodeck), or a device that can just conjure objects/food/drinks for me whenever i want (replicator)
Well u never know this current planet earth MAY end up in the Star Trek Emulation one day. Even without 👽👾 life
I do love how he becomes an ambassador to the Ferengi, it was so perfect.
My sympathies were with the three Earthlings, throughout. The attitude of the Enterpriseniks (so to call them) got to me.
I mean they crew of the Enterprise don't really have any frame of reference to understand where the three old earthers are coming from. it would be like this comments section having to integrate someone from feudal European times into modern society.
@@kazmark_gl8652 They were considered hillbillies.
Economics are very different that you cant imagine. In the meantime would you like to buy some of my wine Chateau Picard from my winery?
Lol he doesn't sell the wine. why would he, when it can be replicated?
Trump would self-destruct in an society like that.
@@Ellimist000 in the new series he does.
@@purefoldnz3070 errr what lol? With currency? Or by barter? If the former, *that* is something for folks to complain about 🤣
@@Ellimist000 errr try watching Star Trek Picard apparently money suddenly returns.
The economy that guy knows don't exist in the 24th century. Thank you for sharing this video.
"I am here aren't I? I should be dead."
Picard, "Set phasers to kill"
I always felt that he would adapt fluidly to his new situation. And true enough one of the commenters here said he went off to become a starfleet negotiator to the Ferengei because of his financial expertise in the books. Thank you kind sir.
Captialism isnt that bad, humanity under Roddenberry just took a different path. I love this show
He adapted. He was just in denial at first and had to get past that before he could progress.
Well, it did get better in the expanded universe, and the guy actually managed to be useful while utilizing his skills to the fullest, and it was glorious.
Which books that?
@@MiningForPies Debtors' Planet
@@MajesticOak thank you. Just ordered it.
I am starting to like that reality
They should've had him again in another episode. He was very interesting
1:12 - World War three... the near collapse of the planets atmosphere... the drug wars... the eugenics war...
Pretty sure your lawyers firm is anything but :P
It is still operating, but with Ferengi partners.
The Eugenics war came before World War Three it was one of its causes.
Picard and viewers that remember the very first episode of TNG know exactly what happened to his late 20th century law firm.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Encounter at Far Point. - Court room scene.
Historically intriguing captain. Very, very accurate. - Data -
Mid-twenty first century. The post atomic horror. - Picard.
Before this gracious court now appears these prisoners to answer for the multiple and grievous savageries of the species. - Bailiff
Objection your honor. In the year 2036 the new United Nations declared that no Earth citizen could be made to answer for his race or forbearers. - Data -
Objection denied. This is a court of 2079, by which time... more 'Rapid Progress' had caused all United Earth nonsense to be abolished. - Q -
---After Freezing and Unfreezing Lt. Yar
Silence! Continuing these proceedings, I must caution you that legal trickery is not permitted. This is a court of fact. - Q -
I recognize this court as one that agreed with that line from Shakespeare, Kill all the lawyers. - Picard -
"Which was done." - Q -
@@DEFkon001 Bravo... deserves WAY more likes.
"We have eliminated hunger, want..."
Someone on a frontier Colony light years away: "Bullshit!"
Almost in exceptional cases would a frontier colony go hunger. Replicators are abundant, even for most rag tag group of Federation groups.
2:45 “This is the 24th Century …Material needs no longer exist”. Says the boss with the luxury cabin and his own dedicated run-about ‘Captain’s Yacht’ (stowed under the saucer iirc).
Rank has its privileges
Since StarTrek is a series discussing many matters that we find relatable, it of course cannot be radically envision entire new cultures completely alien to us, but is limited to merely create exxagerations of relatable things (commerce with Ferengi, Science with Vulcans, Honor with Klingons and Humans who find a balance between them), but it would be interesting to see.
I know Picard and certainly a decently sized chunk of the audience has contempt for this man, but I can only feel pity. This is my idea of a life devoid of fullness. He’s clearly intelligent and driven, but he devotes both to such earthly, meaningless pursuits. I love the ending of this episode because Picard’s answer to his “challenge” question gives me hope we may all be so free to pursue our heart’s content one day, as opposed to being bound by the shackles we currently are spiritually inhibited by.
well, that and he's also a temporal fish out of water. Adjusting to 24th century life is definitely going to take some doing.
@@michaelgreenwood3413 He reminds me a lot of Christopher in the TOS episode Tomorrow is Yesterday (Probably an episode of little import to many, but is one I adore nevertheless), because being scooped up into this future and its practically alien customs against his will was almost his fate, but at least he narrowly escapes it.
I like that fact that he suggests, in contrary to Picard's suggestion that the type of power that money brings, "..is an illusion". That man responds, "Really? I'm here aren't I? I should be dead." He's dead on!
@@wangson They're talking about two different realities. Depends *when* they're talking about. It spirals into semantics if you keep going. Is it money, truly, or science? Was it powerful even in his time if it could topple in importance eventually? But Picard's argued with far stupider people whose points could be shot down more quickly.
He's a Corporate Psychopath, the sort of person that has cheerfully, deliberately screwed and abused thousands of people on his way to 'success.' He deserves all the hate and contempt the internet can muster.
Picard: People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things.
Also Picard: Has a freakin vineyard.
Lol exactly. Deeply flawed ideology that fails to recognize the very selfish nature of humans.
yea he's rich as shit with family vinelands and fine wines for hundreds of years. notice it's always rich fucks who think this shit?
Don't forget his flute, so much for not owning possessions with materialistic value
@@R.e.m.y.H. His "flute" has sentimental and cultural value.
You guys can't be cereal.
Actually you would still need some form of money (Federation credits) for some things replicators cannot possibly make, such as the 1951 Bowman Willie Mays card meant for Sisko (DS9) or other antiques/fossils/etc from the past.
May he rest in peace 1/14/2021
I've always thought the replicator and transporter were the best thing to ever come of star trek, that is their greatest invention out of everything else. Can you imagine a world where every home has access to instant food, clothes, blankets, maybe even the ability to replicate logs, sheetrock, steel bars. With that what would the world turn into if we didn't need to do anything could we as a species motivate ourselves to be better and strive for exploring the galaxy? Or just sit at home and use the replicator until it breaks
we all would sit at home, jerk off and replicate tissues for at least the first few years
Granted, money and the accumulation of wealth were supposedly phased out by Picard's time, but I posit that money was simply replaced by energy. The "credits" that you hear about in various iterations of Star Trek might actually refer to "energy credits".. credits which represent a set amount of energy. Various objects which can be obtained through replicators would have a total energy "cost" to manufacture (energy to matter conversion, after all) and you would need to have the proper amount of "credits" to replicate those objects..
Who is building the replicators?
"We have no need for money."
me: *clutches my gold pressed latinum*
I wish we got to see more of earth on Next Generation. Only times I recall is when Piccard visits his brother. Maybe there was another visit?
They did have one or two, but it was usually to Starfleet Headquarters.
Just excellent acting.
I wish he would explain what he meant by "material needs no longer exist." So if the guy wants to live in a huge apartment on the ground floor next to the most happening club on Earth and eat caviar and drink champagne for every meal he just has to sign up? Even if there is infinite caviar and champagne, what if everyone wants to live on the ground floor next to the most happening club?
Or is he just going to get assigned some stark Soviet cubby in a random city block where a robotic milkman delivers milk and bananas every day?
nvshd Most people live on Star Ship, plus who need a the most happening club when you have an holographic room were you can do everything you can imagine.
Star Trek is fiction, so you need to use your imagination based on the technology you know is in the show. Replicators mean virtually anything you *need* can be manufactured within seconds. Food, clothing, or any material possession you could hold is pretty much 'free' given the amount of energy they have access to. With interstellar travel, they obviously have the ability to mine any material in the social system. Transporters, anti-gravity systems, etc. would make transportation effectively free. The ability to travel to other star systems and planets... makes land virtually free. Restaurants today don't charge for water or WiFi, because it is so cheap per person, it isn't worth charging for. If replicators and energy are as common as the show shows... then food, rings, clothing, etc. would be treated the same as a glass of water. No point in charging for it.
This then makes the rest of the trade economy pointless. If everyone has a machine in their living room which makes food, clothing, etc. is there any point in giving me money? What do I do with the money? What do I buy with it? Not clothes, food, etc. because that has no cost. If people don't need money, taxes quickly fall away. Likewise, does the government need 'money' if it has access to the same technology?
Yes, obviously some things have subjective value beyond simply physical form. Everyone can't live by the ocean, so presumably there is some value for a waterfront house beyond the (virtually zero) value of the structure (due to automation and replicated materials). Artwork maybe, a home cooked meal, etc. Then again, it is hard to say what a post-scarcity society might view such things. They would likely have far more personal time on their hands and may want to make art for people or cook meals for people -- just as something to do. No point in charging people for it, because there may not be anything they could give you which you would need or want. Would people even bother with copyright laws if anyone can press a button and a holographic Mona Lisa appears on the wall?
It is really hard to imagine what effect such technology would have on a society.
Accept of course... that isn't the case today. Many people today work well past retirement age even though they don't need the money. Then you have those in professions who are already multi-millionaires (professional sports, top doctors, lawyers, actors, musicians, etc.) who clearly keep working beyond any sane levels - life outcomes typically decrease after $60k a year. They work for reasons other than money -- pride, competition, they like the work itself, helping people, personal challenge, etc. Then you have an entire range of jobs which earn almost nothing yet people are in it, plus those who do professions part time (musicians, junior athletes, Olympic athletes, artists, certain teachers, etc.). Fairly clear those people would to that job if money wasn't an issue. Then their are jobs which have rewards other than money -- travel, meeting people, helping people, fame, power, influence, etc.
In a post scarcity economy... someone is going to grow food. Why? Because my mom liked her garden when it made zero economic sense. Some people will grow food because they enjoy it. Or run a ranch... because they like horses. Some will cook food... because people like cooking. And people may still want to go out and eat at a restaurant -- because eating at home is boring after a while. And someone is still going to design clothes... because its a fun thing for people to do or so you can say you did it.
It might be hard to imagine where such a society might go, but history has shown that people find things to do with extra time created by automation.
daro2096 your free to challenge yourself I could think of hundreds if things I would want to learn if I wasn’t stuck in the rat race and money was no longer a thing.
it might be true for some. but for many the rat race is what keeps them going. you come up with all kinds of things you want to do, but having nothing to do at all often leads to many people just wasting their time. often its the contrast to work that rewards hobbys.
I always wished I could add to or amend the line after Picard says "to improve yourself" by adding "and to improve the universe around you, it still isn't perfect"
lander77477 lander77477, hey that’s a good line 👍
That would have been awesome and more in line with Picard's thinking.
@@e32b61 Picard does say something similar in first contact where he says "and the rest of humanity"
Somehow the idea of anyone setting out to improve our shared universe, because “it still isn’t perfect”, sends shivers down my spine.
I am Nomad. I am perfect. That which is imperfect must be sterilized.
I feel like Star Trek glosses over a lot of scarcity that couldn't be eliminated with a replicator. Like, who gets the beachfront property or the view of central park?
It's actually quite dystopian that everyone who wants access to cutting edge technology needs to join a quasi military organization with a rigid command structure or leave the Federation so they can buy it from cultures that still do trade.
"Those Comm Panels are for official ship business" "Well if they're so important why don't they need an executive key?" - He's got a point, Starfleet ship security is amazingly lax, no wonder Khan managed to take over the Enterprise when they gave him the literal blueprints of the Constitution Class to look at because 'hospitality and friendship'.
Here's how I picture the post-money economy of Star Trek came to pass:
It all started when the first replicators came online. The first units were massive bulky power-hungry monsters, limited in what materials they could produce. But even then, the massive benefits were undeniable. A construction project could have materials replicated on-site, rather than waiting for them to be shipped.
Replicators quickly got more efficient and versatile, even moving beyond raw materials to some rudimentary manufactured goods and food items. But replicators also threw the economy into chaos. Precious metals suddenly weren't so precious anymore. Farming, mining, shipping and supply chain management interests were increasingly obsolete. Paper money also became increasingly irrelevant. What was the point if goods could be replicated? The Old Guard tried to pass laws barring or limiting the use of replicators, but that was just delaying the inevitable.
Replicators still needed power, and that became the new currency: energy credits. Paper or electronic money still had use for goods that couldn't be replicated, but eventually currency was completely replaced by the energy credit. With increasingly improved fusion power reactors and solar batteries both in low-orbit and on every household rooftop, the post-scarcity society was born.
Even the energy credit eventually became obsolete in the time of the United Federation of Planets. But in outer space and frontier worlds without developed infrastructure, e-creds would still be used.
It seemed like paradise for a short time. Then manufacturing sector collapsed, quickly followed by the agricultural sector, along with big pharma. Then people began to starve. Food riots were normal. Diseases made a comeback, as did communism. The trekkers suddenly discovered their 'paradise' become a living hell.
And how are replicators made available? They must be made.
@@tonywebster8582 Thank you for such a thought-provoking insight. So original! You must have been a writer for that 1st Season Voyager episode, where Paris reached warp10 and turned into a space lizard :)
@@DrownedInExile Unlike you, I don't deal in fantasy.
@@tonywebster8582 If you don't want to deal in fantasy, why the frell are you posting comments on a Star Trek video??? Do you not realize that FTL drives and matter replicators aren't real?
Your prattling about communism bores the shit out of me. But I do thank you for your unintentionally hilarious post. Have a nice day!
I find it incredibly ironic how he goes about being able to control one's destiny. And yet, in the Federation because resources can easily be replicated, one can be anything they want and not have to worry. You want to be an artist, a musician, a chef, you can.
Thanks! Do yo know what episode is?
This should have been the focus of the Federation/Ferengi differences.
Instead, by Deep Space Nine, the comedy element of the Ferengi gets emphasized a little too much, and the Federation's consistent shortages on practice commodities becomes almost comical as well.
The invention of the replicator could alter the economy in ways we can't even imagine. Imagine replicating anything you want out of thin air. Food, clothes, furniture, anything, and all for not cost. The only jobs left would be in the service sector. Barbers, salons, lawnmaintence, etc.
I suspect a society that mastered matter energy conversion probably also solved cutting hair and grass sometime before.
And computers could turn waste into whatever we need, so no more landfills.