So what did you choose to run in your own setup? Mechanical, electric, or both? ✅ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy121 ✊50% OFF your first online engine building course. Enrol now: hpcdmy.co/offery121 TIME STAMPS: 0:00 - Introduction 1:25 - What fuel pressure do you need? 3:10 - Flow requirements for different fuels 5:20 - Flow limitations of a conventional fuel pump 13:00 - Advantages of brushless pumps 15:30 Disadvantage of brushless pumps 20:00 - Mechanical pumps 29:25 - Questions
Just switched from dual 525 Walbro brushed fuel pumps to brushless fuel pumps from Fuelab. I’d love see / hear your opinion these! I’ve been testing amperage, flow, longevity, etc. and I’d love to see testing from you guys.
Which Fuel lab pumps did you go with? Did you get ones with internal check valves? What amperage draws are you seeing? Its looking like the amperage should be pretty low.
@@supradma71 if you check one of my recent videos I did some testing using a PDM and quite impressed. So far at lower PSI the pumps are only pulling 4-5amps and on all the boost and 100+ psi of fuel it’s seeing 17-19
Might have missed it, but another potential problem with rear-mounted fuel tanks, and front mounted mechanical pumps, is the vacuum head. There are two parts to this, the first is under acc'n not only is the pump drawing against the restrictions of the fuel line, but it is also working against the "gravity head" vacuum*, with the second being as pressure drops, so does the 'boiling' point of the fuel, and this can result in the fuel lines filling with vapour. *With drag cars with rear electric pumps, that's a positive pressure head, that's adding to the pressure head of the regulator's setting.
Awesome vid as always! Kinda annoying that I can only give a single thumbs up! I love making modifications and even diagnosing fuel systems, especially after they find it’s inadequate! Not just improvements to flow and the efficiency of such systems, but Current draw and the ability to sustain voltage under boost is super critical! Sometimes just to test the wiring I’ll bridge the pumps to run while cranking up the regulator above the expected normal range of pressure then check current draw and voltage loss between the battery and pumps, as many installations lack enough power to the pumps! A voltage difference of more than 3v isn’t uncommon on bad wiring! And pump performance is reduced significantly! Especially In my dodgy built car being so thirsty for amps under boost I’ve ended up installing two alternator’s! A far cheaper alternative to buying one with as much capacity! it’s not overly powerful on 98 octane and high boost around 30psi but 120 psi of fuel pressure is used to keep afr’s happy at full boost and I found pretty quickly that the factory 120a charging system was inadequate for sustaining power for long periods! Mind you one of my drives for pushing 30lbs of boost into an l36 with a factory delco computer is because I’ve been told I can’t! Apparently I can’t even run that much fuel pressure! According to knob’s that apparently specifically tune commodore’s! Also another thing I’d recommend to anyone installing an upgrade fuel system with factory ecu to power it’s larger relay via the factory one! and never just by ignition or an on off switch! Hopefully readable it’s 40 degrees here atm lol I’m melting
Depends on fuel delivery application. If you are running a carburetor you want like 4psi. If you are running stock injectors on an LS you want to run their usual 58psi. If you are running out of injector you can increase the pressure a bit to eek out a bit more fuel in the cylinders up until the high 70s where you could start inhibiting the injectors. It just depends on your application and injectors.
@@TheBCninjaexactly! depending on injector type but also the voltages to them! If you try 100+psi on a knock off injector it’ll likely not open at all! Definitely true with the eBay spec ones! I’ve got a box full of em!
Most injectors will have their flow rated at 3 bar. Higher fuel means it will be harder for them to actuate, but will give you slightly higher flow and slightly better atomisation. If your engine is naturally aspirated a 3 bar pump is fine, however for every bar of boost, you want the fuel pump to run at a higher pressure. So if you are running 2 bar of boost at sea level you want a fuel pump that can supply minimum 5 bar of fuel pressure at the flow you require. Stick to pumps that are rated in Bar/kpa and lph. Bosch pumps are the best, they are the most reliable.
I would love to know more about how fuel pressure regulators aren’t linear. I get the feeling I’ve got this going on in my own tuning, but without a way to monitor fuel pressure while driving, I can’t say for sure. I’d love to know how and why they’re nonlinear
Port injection indeed. For those looking at DI setups we don't have a lesson like this one, however, the linked interview is a good start noting it's an entirely different situation you're dealing with there - Taz. www.hpacademy.com/blog/is-direct-injection-limiting-power/
Only the ignorant ones, and they would also fail to understand the importance of voltage ACROSS the electric pump. NOTE, ignorance simply means not knowing something, and is cureable with education, stupidity is a life-long condition.
So what did you choose to run in your own setup? Mechanical, electric, or both?
✅ Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all-inclusive VIP online course package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy121
✊50% OFF your first online engine building course. Enrol now: hpcdmy.co/offery121
TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Introduction
1:25 - What fuel pressure do you need?
3:10 - Flow requirements for different fuels
5:20 - Flow limitations of a conventional fuel pump
13:00 - Advantages of brushless pumps
15:30 Disadvantage of brushless pumps
20:00 - Mechanical pumps
29:25 - Questions
Just switched from dual 525 Walbro brushed fuel pumps to brushless fuel pumps from Fuelab. I’d love see / hear your opinion these!
I’ve been testing amperage, flow, longevity, etc. and I’d love to see testing from you guys.
Which Fuel lab pumps did you go with? Did you get ones with internal check valves? What amperage draws are you seeing? Its looking like the amperage should be pretty low.
@@supradma71 if you check one of my recent videos I did some testing using a PDM and quite impressed. So far at lower PSI the pumps are only pulling 4-5amps and on all the boost and 100+ psi of fuel it’s seeing 17-19
We run a mechanical pump 10 gpm on our civic. Bseries methanol hopefully getting into the 70+psi range this coming season want to run the 7s pass
Love my AEM pump turns on at 10psi via hobbswitch, some people also run hellcat pumps as well heard they were also another great option
"The front fell off" - Clarke and Dawe, 1991 😂
I appreciated that reference 👌
Might have missed it, but another potential problem with rear-mounted fuel tanks, and front mounted mechanical pumps, is the vacuum head.
There are two parts to this, the first is under acc'n not only is the pump drawing against the restrictions of the fuel line, but it is also working against the "gravity head" vacuum*, with the second being as pressure drops, so does the 'boiling' point of the fuel, and this can result in the fuel lines filling with vapour.
*With drag cars with rear electric pumps, that's a positive pressure head, that's adding to the pressure head of the regulator's setting.
Awesome vid as always! Kinda annoying that I can only give a single thumbs up! I love making modifications and even diagnosing fuel systems, especially after they find it’s inadequate! Not just improvements to flow and the efficiency of such systems, but Current draw and the ability to sustain voltage under boost is super critical! Sometimes just to test the wiring I’ll bridge the pumps to run while cranking up the regulator above the expected normal range of pressure then check current draw and voltage loss between the battery and pumps, as many installations lack enough power to the pumps! A voltage difference of more than 3v isn’t uncommon on bad wiring! And pump performance is reduced significantly! Especially In my dodgy built car being so thirsty for amps under boost I’ve ended up installing two alternator’s! A far cheaper alternative to buying one with as much capacity! it’s not overly powerful on 98 octane and high boost around 30psi but 120 psi of fuel pressure is used to keep afr’s happy at full boost and I found pretty quickly that the factory 120a charging system was inadequate for sustaining power for long periods! Mind you one of my drives for pushing 30lbs of boost into an l36 with a factory delco computer is because I’ve been told I can’t! Apparently I can’t even run that much fuel pressure! According to knob’s that apparently specifically tune commodore’s! Also another thing I’d recommend to anyone installing an upgrade fuel system with factory ecu to power it’s larger relay via the factory one! and never just by ignition or an on off switch! Hopefully readable it’s 40 degrees here atm lol I’m melting
Wiring it up that way also means you take advantage of any inertia switchs or similar that'll turn the pump off in the event of a hard crash
Love the zero inclusion of fuel pump info, when running carb/s.
Makes sense since this is the "EFI Tuning Webinar"
In airsoft boring brushed motors only do 2500 rounds per minute. Brushless does 3900 😊
Thats why I bought a BKS1001.
about fuel pressure...my question is what goes into choosing a specific one? Is there a reason to go with higher pressure than the standard 3 bar?
Depends on fuel delivery application. If you are running a carburetor you want like 4psi. If you are running stock injectors on an LS you want to run their usual 58psi. If you are running out of injector you can increase the pressure a bit to eek out a bit more fuel in the cylinders up until the high 70s where you could start inhibiting the injectors. It just depends on your application and injectors.
@@TheBCninjaexactly! depending on injector type but also the voltages to them! If you try 100+psi on a knock off injector it’ll likely not open at all! Definitely true with the eBay spec ones! I’ve got a box full of em!
Most injectors will have their flow rated at 3 bar. Higher fuel means it will be harder for them to actuate, but will give you slightly higher flow and slightly better atomisation. If your engine is naturally aspirated a 3 bar pump is fine, however for every bar of boost, you want the fuel pump to run at a higher pressure. So if you are running 2 bar of boost at sea level you want a fuel pump that can supply minimum 5 bar of fuel pressure at the flow you require. Stick to pumps that are rated in Bar/kpa and lph. Bosch pumps are the best, they are the most reliable.
Very good information.
I would love to know more about how fuel pressure regulators aren’t linear. I get the feeling I’ve got this going on in my own tuning, but without a way to monitor fuel pressure while driving, I can’t say for sure. I’d love to know how and why they’re nonlinear
electric actuatted fuel pressure regulators a thing in he fututre?
I assume none of this talk applies to DI? You need both a low pressure and high pressure pump for that.
Port injection indeed. For those looking at DI setups we don't have a lesson like this one, however, the linked interview is a good start noting it's an entirely different situation you're dealing with there - Taz.
www.hpacademy.com/blog/is-direct-injection-limiting-power/
Hahah 100% marketing ploy, I’d say 90% of customers don’t fully understand the concept of flow vs pressure when it comes to
Fuel pumps.
100%
Only the ignorant ones, and they would also fail to understand the importance of voltage ACROSS the electric pump.
NOTE, ignorance simply means not knowing something, and is cureable with education, stupidity is a life-long condition.