Music Chat: 10 Unfinished “Masterpieces” Finished (By Others)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- 10 Unfinished “Masterpieces” Finished (By Others)
Schubert: “Unfinished” Symphony
Berg: Lulu
Puccini: Turandot
Falla: Atlántida
Weber: Die Drei Pintos
Elgar: Symphony No. 3
Borodin: Prince Igor
Bartók: Viola Concerto
Mahler: Symphony No. 10
Mozart: Requiem
Re Turandot: A well known tenor who had sung the role of Calaf numerous times told me a story about his experience at one performance somewhere in Europe: when he showed up for the first rehearsal and they arrived at the point where Liu has died and Puccini's music leaves off, and it was time for him to sing his first lines in the final scene - "Principessa di morte...", he was horrified to hear the orchestra launch into something which sounded to him like bizarre outer-space music, instead of the Alfano-scored chords he had been expecting. It turned out that no one had thought to inform him that they were doing the Berio ending, which he had never even heard of. The conductor was very apologetic, but assured him that his part in the Berio was very easy . Re Lulu: I was fortunate to take a seminar on Berg from George Perle, the composer and scholar who was the first to get a look at Berg's sketches for Lulu. At the time (Helene Berg was still alive back then, and jealously guarding her husband's posthumous papers). Perle had just shown that contrary to what everyone had thought up to then, Berg's sketches for Act III were substantially complete, and there was no reason why a competent composer familiar with Berg's idiom shouldn't be able to make a satisfactory completion. Perle at the time was working on the second volume of his exemplary (and very dense) monograph, "The operas of Alban Berg", which deals with Lulu. Re Schubert: Entering the music building where I attended classes as undergrad, you would pass by a bulletin board, where someone had posted a cartoon which stayed up for years. It showed a plump young man in a frock coat seated in an overstuffed chair surrounded by a bevy of buxom young maidens, one draped across his lap, another tousling his hair. The caption read: "Come on Mr. Schubert, you can finish that symphony later..."
In re Perle: I read Perle’s book with great delight many years ago.
In re Schubert: I’ve seen online a meme with a similar joke purporting to explain the brevity of the slow movement of the Brandenburg Concerto 3.
Re Schubert: Or the cartoon of his cat laying on the score as the reason he couldn’t finish it.
A truly inspiring talk.
1) One should alter "Turandot" with your ending!
2) Concerning "Lulu": The son of the main person behind the Cerha-completion is a friend of mine. He claims (and I do believe him) that Cerha had just to score the 3rd act and fill in some bars, which haven't been completed by Berg, but have been notated in the particell with empty staves. So, Cerha knew even, how many bars Berg had provided.
3) The "Danube Symphony" by Janáček is one of the unfinished works, which seem interesting to me. I know that Janácek just sketched the work, but the completion by Miloš Štedron and Leoš Faltus sounds like Janáček, in my opinion.
4) Three operas by Mussorgski have had to be completed: I know the "The Sorochynzi Fair" in a version by Vissarion Shebalin, and I have no idea, what comes from him and what is genuin Mussorgski; and then "Khovanshchina", which is nearly completed in a very sparse piano score, and not scored at all. That did Rimski-Korsakov, who was surpassed (in my opinion) by Shostakovich. "The Marriage" I have on a russian recording in a short version by Gennady Rozhdestvensky, but I have also a piano score of the work with a first act, which seems to be by Mussorgski and a second act in a more contemporary style by Alexander Tcherepnin.
5) For me the opposite to "Turandot": Philip Jarnach completed Busoni's "Faust" with a finale, which is the best part of the work - but it doesn't sound like Busoni, rather like Zemlinsky or Schreker.
6) What do you think on the 3rd act of Schoenberg's "Moses and Aron", composed by Zoltán Kocsis?
One "completion" I would love to hear is the Ravel-Stravinsky orchestration of Khovanshchina. You'd think with that pedigree that it would have been recorded at least once, but I don't believe it ever has been.
I agree to an extent with your view of the Mozart Requiem, but the Requiem, Kyrie and Dies irae movements are so great that I don't worry much about what follows. I will say I have always liked the Benedictus which I understand is 100% Süssmayr, no fragmented Mozart sketches drawn upon for that. And at least the Requiem and Kyrie music is recapitulated in the final part, so you have that to look forward to, though it's not as effective as in the beginning.
You should have gone off to play with Mildred and left the video unfinished.
You're right.
I would put Bruckner 9 in the same basket as Schubert Unfinished even if there may be a bit more of Bruckner in it. Both perfect as they are usually played. Brilliant take on Turandot.
It turns out that the canonical Bruckner Ninth is so well balanced that any addition is pointless. Although it is questionable to add programs to non-programmatical works based on what we know about the composer at the time (Bruckner was dying of cancer, and he was in some fear of Hell)... I see his first movement as an insight into what cancer was doing to him, the scherzo as a warning againt hedonistic complacency about Divine Judgment, and finally as much as possible a reconciliation with God. What could logically follow?
Heaven? We humans are far more competent at creating Hell than Heaven.
Excellent talk. I note that you didn't include the Bruckner 9 Finale, I fully understand why and have no issues whatsoever with it. Very good.
==you didn't include the Bruckner 9 Finale== Good point, but ISTR from another post that Dave's not a great fan of Bruckner IX completion
I have such mixed feelings about Mahler’s 10th. Calling it a Mahler symphony is a mistake, but I think the Dereck Cooke version is a great work that should exist. Maybe just have it as Mahler/Cooke or something. Thank you for all the wonderful videos.
I think "Inspired by Mahler" might be appropriate. Cooke's "completion" isn't bad, but it isn't Mahler either.
I love the Turandot completion, although I'd add an extra plot-twist by having Calaf reveal that his true name is "Rumpelstiltskin"
Brilliant!
I hadn’t heard of the “Rosamunde completion” of Schubert. I was aware that the scherzo has been fleshed out and the finale of Symphony 3 used by some…I can’t see how that would work! The key might be “right” but the style by then…
The same has been tried with Bruckner’s Te Deum as finale to his no. 9. Nuh!
That was interesting, thanks. I have, and enjoy, the first Mahler/Cooke in its mono Ormandy/Philly world premier lp version.
I still find it hilarious that Colin Matthews composed Pluto the Renewer to “finish” Holst’s Planets when it is no longer considered a planet. Truly a fitting situation for such a clad-on work.
Yep. Serves him right. The piece is awful.
Spot on.
It’s funny too because had Holst been aware of Pluto (not discovered til 1935) and included it, it would have been placed between Mercury and Jupiter because the planets in The Planets are in astrological order, not heliocentric.
Completely right. I recall actually laughing, no, chortling out loud when Pluto was de-planetized and Matthews excess to requirements piece was banished to outer darkness. Just like that rock that was no longer a planet.😂
Totally right. The key point is that Holst's Planets is very much an integral piece and the mysterious ending of Neptune rounds it off perfectly. Pluto is completely out of context. I blame whoever commissioned it in the first place - simply a bad idea.
Mussorgsky's Khovanschina is great; I think I heard the completion by Shostakovitch.
LOVE your proposed Turandot ending; I guffawed heartily from across the room as I listened. RE: SCHUBERT "Unifinished"...Interesting to note that the famous Columbia Gramophone competition in 1928 (Schubert's death centennial) was announced as a world-wide contest for composers to COMPLETE the "Unfinished." The blowback was such that the guidelines were revised to require submissions be written "in the STYLE of Schubert". And, yes, Kurt Atterbrerg and Franz Schmidt took the top 2 prizes (and Glazunov was the Chairman). Quite a lineup. LR
I really quite like the Tuba Mirum its one of my favorite parts of the whole thing...its just the second half (after the Lacrimosa) that doesnt click for me
I'd love to see a follow-up video on this, dealing with different reasons why compositions remain unfinished, and what the implications are for odds of getting it completed successfully.
1) It seems that a lot of works remained incomplete because the composer died in the process. In this case the substance of what's already there may be quite good. But the task at hand may be daunting. No one can possibly know how someone like Mahler would have taken his game to the next level in his 10th symphony.
2) There are also cases where composers found themselves in a dead end conceptually. Schönberg's Moses and Aaron is a classic case. [The user @edwinbaumgartner5045 in a below comment mentions a completion of the piece by Zoltán Kocsis. I am not familiar with this one. But it raises the interesting question if there is a case where one composer successfully managed to get another composer's work out of a conceptual dead end.]
A combination of both issues seems to be quite common: A composer up dying over a piece due to insurmountable conceptual challenges.
I have read that Kocsis was authorized by Schoenberg's family to complete 'Moses und Aron' (I myself have yet to hear this addendum). When the late filmmakers Jean-Marie Straub and Danièle Huillet made their 1974 film adaptation of 'Moses und Aron', they shot the third act as an entirely spoken episode.
Bought the Elgar 3. It is little more than a coaster for my coffee cup.
I would like to add Les contes d’Hoffmann to the list. There is a lot to say about all the different versions of this opera.
Mozart's C minor mass also has it's couple of completions by others, while most of them just reconstruct the missing orchestration for some of the movements, others add up new material for the missing Credo and Agnus Dei sections; Levin, for instance, draws upon a variety of different materials for his work, such as movements from the Davide Penintente, multiple sketches by Mozart and some stuff he himself came up with. I have to confess I like how to overall sounds but I'm not really all that convinced by the approach...
I find it works perfectly well as Mozart left it, even if it's liturgically incorrect. It solves the common problems of the Agnus Dei being an anticlimax and the Credo being awkward to set.
There's a rumor that the aristocracy attempted to prop up Mozart's image after he died. Embellishing his talents on a superhuman level, in order to preserve their own self importance. Using the story of the Requiem as a fitting end to the Mozart biography. That is, Wolfgang, as a faithful son of the Roman Catholic church, writing a death mass that foretold his passing. No doubt, many who heard of the circumstances surrounding Mozart's final days, wanted to get their hands on the unfinished piece.
There's another one that I really love which is Mussorgsky's Khovanschina
Never heard about the De Falla-work.
Or the Weber-wotk, for that part.
I don't know how well-known this is, but I guess I'll write it. I've been reading a lot on Bartók lately. When his sketches became available for research multiple decades after his death, it turned out that the Viola Concerto was much less finished than Bartók had stated in his correspondence.
Basically, the first movement exposition is the only part of the piece where it's clear what Bartók wanted. Even the recapitulation is ambiguous. In some places, the Adagio can be regarded as nothing more than a preliminary draft, and the planned arrangement of the sketches for the Finale is utterly unclear.
So, actually, the jury isn't out anymore. The Viola Concerto isn't a Bartók piece. It's a Serly piece made of Bartók ideas.
@@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh My point is that Bartók repeatedly emphasised in a letter to Primrose that only 'mechanical' work was left to finish the piece. Now, when his sketches became available, it turned out that the work left could only have been 'mechanical' to Bartók himself, no one else. For anyone else, finishing the viola concerto is considerably a 'creative' work.
If you are interested, I can send you the facsimile edition of Bartók's autograph draft with a commentary by László Somfai. The facsimile is available on IMSLP, actually, but only without the commentary.
Agree about the Tuba Mirum. Is it a (freemason) joke?
recently i heard a supposed end to the 4th movement of bruckner's 9th, as a part of a 'best symphonic endings.' well...maybe the person doing this felt he needed something totally odd. the 5 minutes or so of the supposed 4th movement, first of all, did not sound at all like bruckner. not one teeny bit. it sounded like it was written 3o years later. truly awful.
The most recent version by Phillips et al is well-research and actually decent (a MIDI version is on TH-cam). Some of the older ones are awful
Who knows... some day AI technology may be able to finish this stuff off, better than a human bonce. LOL!
What a pity, there isn't a Sibelius 8th to fudge up. Not really! The 7 is heaven, who needs more!
'Turandot' is a mess at the end. I have seen it twice at the ROH London but it's so jarring. I forgive it on the wonderful Sutherland/ Pavarotti/ Mehta Decca because the engineering is amazing but I wish someone could do a better job to complete it
There's an AI Beethoven 10th symphony. It was given some hype some time ago. Oh, it's so so awful; I nearly gagged.
@@smurashige I can only imagine
Great video. A bit more "niche" is Busoni's Doktor Faust. There are two different completions and I am not sure that they are great ones. The Beaumont is probably better. A pity because the opera is fascinating, in particular the two prologues. Any opinion ?
Violist here. For a very long time I felt similarly about the Bartok; it was something that I didn't dislike, but most definitely didn't "get." However, what musical material that exists in the piece has potential for some very special moments. After all, we violists don't have much of a choice.
Third movement is a lot of fun to play btw.
I just attended a performance of yet another completion of the Schubert Unfinished. Another bomb. And I do rather enjoy the Elgar 3rd. I've played it twice and audiences seem to enjoy it too.
What is more, in the case of "Prince Igor", Rimsky-Korsakov had already begun to help him with the composition during Borodin's lifetime.
So there is no way of playing this work without playing Rimsky‘s arrangements.
On one point, dear Dave, I have to disagree with you to some extent: There is now an alternative to the Rimsky-Korsakov/Glasunov version: the version by the Russian Borodin researcher Anna Bulycheva, who has set herself the task of reconstructing the "original" Prince Igor - although, as pointed out, an original Igor does not exist. There may be original manuscripts of Borodin's orchestration of some numbers that would be interesting, and there may be musically beautiful numbers that are not included in the Rimsky-Glasunov version at all, but this "original version" is still quite nonsense; the order of scenes was changed rather arbitrarily. In the end, it should therefore be ignored.
Interesting. Thanks!
I bought a Naxos version of Elgar's "Symphony no. 3" about 25 years ago. I listened to it once, fell asleep and haven't heard it since.
What helped Cerha finish Lulu was the fact that it was conceived and constructed as a Palindrome both with regard to its plot AND thematically. So Cerha had a solid formal and contextual basis on which to work his way from where Berg left off and on to the end.
Martin Yates's realisation of 'Sketches for Symphony no. 2' by Moeran is a fine stylistic work
This is outstanding. I don't recall how much Moeran left & how much is Yates. But it sounds like Moeran & it's extremely pleasurable to listen to. I'm grateful to Yates & Dutton for it.
I agree with you that the attempted completions of Schubert's Unfinished Symphony are deeply unsatisfying. The third movement, as far as Schubert wrote it, can be completed with some ingenious intervention, perhaps patching in some music for other Schubert material, and that makes for a tidy little dance but it is still a let-down with a bump from the level of the first two movements.
Although the Rosemunde music may structurally fill the bill as a finale, it also comes across as anti-climactic in context. Even Mackerras couldn't make it sound convincing.
I have read of a later completion which adds to the Rosemunde movement a return to the opening of the first movement. I haven't heard it but remain skeptical. The only real solution to the Unfinished Symphony problem, IMHO, would be for a time-traveler go back to the early 19th Century, cure his syphillis, and grant him a long life. I admit that this is not very practical, given the limits of current technology.
Schubert left a bunch, a whole bunch, of unfinished compositions, especially piano sonatas. Often then are easy to complete, since it is evident that the young Schubert ran of the money to pay for paper. Da capo al fine and bang, you are there. Paul Badura-Skoda recorded the recoverable ones in his RCA edition and they are perfectly fine, even the earliest ones.
And then there is the Sonata in C major D 840, dubbed "Reliquie" by some idiot publisher.
This is an important work but Schubert abandoned the third and fourth movements and there are numerous attempted completions by Krenek, Badura-Skoda twice, Timiro and others. Sviatislov Richer recorded the finished movements only, as have others.
I have only heard the first Badura-Skoda crack at it in that RCA set and enjoyed it. I'll gladly hear it in any form but I think that it is worth attempting a completion to experience the grand plan of the sonata, even if Schubert didn't quite get there.
Again with Schubert, the Symphony D 729. (Confusion alert, the Great Symphony in C major D 944 is now called # 7. It now appears that D 944 came before D 729.) Anyhow, 729 was completely composed but only slightly orchestrated. I heard the Weingartner orchestration on an ancient LP and the Brian Newbould reconstruction under Marriner.
I have to admit that I miss some of the Weingartner harmonies, but Newbould is probably more accurate. Either way, the third movement, though clever, is a let-down and the final movement is a like a less-successful dry-run for D 944.
Let's not get into Schubert's 10th Symphony and their multiple reconstructions!
Now... Turandot.
I think that Puccini wrote himself into a corner. Neither the Alfano ending, complete or truncated, nor the Berio ending, a cop-out if there ever was one, cures the problem that Turandot is a repellant monster. To turn her character around on a dime was beyond even his melodic inspiration let alone any the capacities of any lesser contemporary composer. (Looking at you, Cilea, Mascagni, Zandonai, Giordano, etc.)
Toscanini notoriously ended the premiere at the point where Puccni died. He conducted two more performances (Alfano, cut) and then turned the whole mess over to his assistant, Ettore Panizza.
I wonder if Puccini might have found a musical means (an inversion perhaps?) that could have transformed Turandot into Liu. It would still be a stretch but at least the Monster and her selfish Master would come across as less egotistical.
Have you ever listened to Sigismond von Neukomm completion of Mozart's Réquiem?
A few years back, I stumbled upon a TH-cam video of a completion of Schubert’s Unfinished credited to a TV composer named Lucas Cantor, allegedly with aid of a smartphone and AI. The whole thing was a publicity stunt put on by Huawei. It’s perfectly awful. Neither Cantor nor Huawei’s phone paid any attention to Schubert’s own scherzo fragment, and the last movement is a hodgepodge of faux Tchaikovsky, faux early Sibelius, etc. Information on this disaster is easy to Google up.
Just as some of Michelangelo's unfinished sculptures are instructive witnesses to his process, and are viewed by some as even more compelling artistically than many of his completed works, I generally think it best to leave such unfinished compositions as incomplete, tantalizing artifacts of their creators' conceptions, methods, and goals (however speculative the latter must remain). This is arguably another instance where less can be more.
The hilarious thing about the Alfano Turandot ending is that the Fenice now has now made the recapitulation of the big tune, starting right at “Padre augusto,” a concert item. There are two videos of this up on TH-cam. Talk about cheesy!
Hallo everyone!! Wonderful program...I must now confess that I find Mozarts Requiem most unfulling to my ears....when I listen to music I shut my eyes and just listen ( even in concert) I love Mozarts DON GIOVANNI, and his Requiem na ja....of course a matter of taste...Best Requiem (my opinion) is from FAURE...just incredibly gorgeous beautiful music. .what a way to go....All the very best to you all, stay healthy and safe...
My understanding was the Borodin 3rd symphony was completely notated by Glazunov who had an outstanding photographic memory after hearing Borodin playing the two movements on the piano.
Fun subject. Thanks
You're welcome. How about watching the video?
Yes, what a curious phenomenon; those who want to comment before they actually listen!? In my YT experience, it seems to be for many an effort to pander for attention and hopefully gain digital 'friends'....@@DavesClassicalGuide
The number of unfinished works by prolific composers that scholars have bothered to complete is relatively small (e.g., the Art of Fugue and Mozart Requiem). I'm not sure if that is because those composers were fast workers who didn't leave anything unfinished or that their works don't have the scarcity value to justify completion. I've never heard of a Haydn or Telemann completion, for example.
Another topic that would be interesting to hear is a discussion of works that were suppressed by their composers but were later re-introduced (if it hasn't already been covered).
Mozart left hundreds of unfinished works, yet, as you correctly pointed out, only a handful of them get completions: the requiem (30+ completions), the c minor mass (10+ completions) and the Horn Concerto No. 1 (4 completions). It seems scholars tend to gravitate towards more popular pieces, I wonder why?
What I dislike most about Alfano's effort is the pitifully bland love theme. Berio doesn't use it and wisely doesn't try to match Puccini's melodic gift, so I find his completion much less irritating to sit through. It starts off pretty well with a very sensitive transition from the last notes of Liù's exit, which Puccini scored with great delicacy. But there is no way to make a dramatically convincing ending, and Berio essentially gives that job over to the lighting designer.
What’s sad is that no one remembers Alfano besides his completion of Turandot (which was arguably his most important achievement, but indeed mediocre at best). He has written some amazing chamber music. I’m discovering all of his chamber works, currently performing the concerto for violin cello and piano. It’s marvellous music, very colourful and full of energy. Everyone who heard us play it tends to agree. As far as Turandot goes, I’m not a fan either.
Despite the controversies and contradictions surrounding the unfinished final fugue of Bach’s The Art of Fugue, I am perfectly happy to indulge myself in the likely myth that Bach died in the middle of composing it. As the notes trail off, it makes for some of the most emotionally searing abstract music out there. A perfect memento mori. For a rousing performance of hair-raising intensity (and mind-blowing sonics), see Samuel Kummer’s recent recording on the Aeolus label, performed on the Hildebrandt organ in Naumburg: the incomplete final Fuga a 3 soggetti, followed by the chorale “Wenn wir in höchsten Nöthen sein” (with Kummer’s completion of the final fugue included at the very end for good measure). PLAY IT LOUD! 🤯 😵 😊
No, that would have been almost impossible. He had to have worked out the climactic combination of themes first, as Tovey pointed out.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I agree! But sometimes it’s nice to suspend disbelief, indulge fantasy, and swallow the myth that Bach kicked the bucket with pen in hand.
I like your proposed completion of Turandot. There's plenty of good material at the top of Act One that someone could repurpose to make this happen. BUOIA! SANGUE!
I played through the piano-vocal score of "Die drei Pintos" decades ago and loved it! I believe that almost all of the thematic material is by Weber, but most of the orchestration and harmonization is by Mahler - very obviously from the period of his First Symphony, especially as much of it is in D Major anyway. This is particularly true of the Intermezzo, which could be performed separately as a piece by Mahler on motives by Weber. This could also be done with the marvelous aria of the lovesick tomcat Mansur. "A Night on Bald Mountain" as most audiences know it today should be billed as a piece by Rimsky-Korsakoff after motifs by Mussorgsky. Mussorgsky's original is incomparably better: its harmonies, its shrieking orchestration, and its rhythms hit the listener right in the pit of the stomach! Deryck Cooke's completion of the last movement of Mahler's Tenth is the most beautiful and transformative music I have ever heard - whether by Cooke or by Mahler, I can no longer imagine my life without it!