and you got really cool looking sword and spear for 20 or so lvl questing which was very satisfying. also add that they are actually evil paladins during TBC and basically vampiring light energy from captured Naaru, have quest to mock and corrupt alliance paladin relics...i so miss belf pals being evil
OrdoMallius Then you would be ignoring the mountains of patches and nerfs throughout the years. Original Starcraft on release was not perfectly balance in any way shape or form
It's also being balanced to this day through creating new maps and removing old ones from the map pool. The oldest map used in the last ASL was from 2010, the vast majority was from 2019. This aspect is often overlooked and understandably so, it doesn't really have an equivalent in most genres. The initial map pool played today would make the game look terribly balanced.
Orc is better in every way apart from group support. Draenei provides spell hit to up to 5 players. If elemental, 4 total hit in conjunction with totem of wrath. Enhance, not even close. Axe expertise is extremely good.
Don't forget Blood Elf paladin's can judge Seal of Blood to break Polymorph in arena, similar to priests using Shadow Word Death right as enemy mage's cast goes off. Or predicting scattershot etc. Good way to catch enemies offguard when they dispell your Blessing of Sacrifice
No they cant. Seal of blood is dmg on hit. To break polly/sap/any other cc effect you use spell "blessing of sacrifice" (both ally and horde). Your enemies cant dispell your seal of blood due to your talent tree (your seals are undispellable).
@@krowaswieta7944 Judging Seal of Blood damages yourself and its delayed. It works like Shadow Word death, I got to Gladiator rank as a BE paladin back in Season 2 TBC
@@JaySea Yes, it damages you. But tell me, dear gladiator, how do you want to swing/judge when you're pollied :D? And well, command procs with delay, not blood (and thats why you could seal twist only from command to blood, not other way around).
@@JaySea And hey, you might be right. I forgot about ridiculous spell bacthing from TBC era. So yea, i admit it could work with some delay (was playing tbc for pvp on private servers where they just removed spell batching thingy; and i dont remeber retail tbc clearly enough to be sure if youre right; after closer examination though i think its highly possible)
5:46 PPM does scale with haste though. Base PPM does not represent actual PPM. We see this very clearly in Classic right now. Actual PPM is influenced by haste and instant attacks. As a rogue with Bloodfang in Classic, you can expect an actual PPM of its proc up to 4 times its base PPM of 0.83. The same applies to PPM mechanics like Crusader.
@@Rave.- To fully disregard the point you would still need to know exactly how much haste a Paladin can stack without sacrificing other stats (like Mastery which is always more important to cap) and then how many more procs can you expect out of those extra attacks. My guess is that you would need quite a lot to make up the difference and gearing as an Alli Paladin might not feel as good.
When I saw this video title, as a former BElf Prot Pally main, the first thing I thought of is Arcane Torrent. Extremely useful for bringing in that caster that's just out of range, interrupting something nasty that's about to wreck you, or just getting a little mana back on the cheap. What a ridiculously good racial ability, especially before they gave prot access to Rebuke.
Man, I still miss OG Arcane Torrent. I mean an AoE offensive dispel is situationally useful as well, but I still try to use it as an AoE interrupt on accident from time to time. xD
@@justincoltharp9701 Yes. BFA instances seemed to have a lot more bad but dispellable enemy buffs than previous expansions and some packs can have multiple making an AoE offensive dispel a little more desirable situationally. That’s probably a little tinfoil hat of me to say though. I adored the caster control that Protection Paladins and Vengeance Demon Hunters had, but it’s indeed gone. Seems like it was a PvP nerf that affected PvE as well as per usual.
It's still one of the most beneficial racials and outside of specific bosses like Goblin for Kiljaeden and Troll for Jaina, the primary resource gain has always been considered too good for anything that needs it. It even saw itself be OP in the raid tier it was changed.
Paladin was my go-to towards the end of Vanilla and mostly played horde prior to the release of TBC. Then after the release of TBC it was clear that I really enjoyed Paladin a lot, AND a good friend had a good guild I could join with her. That solidified the choice and experience. With that said, it was clear throughout TBC how superior horde Paladins were compared with Alliance. This time around should there be a Classic TBC, I will take the time to level a horde Paladin and have fun with my current guild which is absolutely amazing.
Was a Human Ret Pally in BC and the 2 biggest issues with Alliance ret were:Mana bar go poof and Command being unreliable. In full t4 or equal gear a blood elf ret could break 1k dps and be roughly middle of the pack. Alliance ret had to fix mana issues via consumables and hit up vanilla hard for anything and everything to get that few % to keep up with blood. By the time Sunwell was winding down many Blood elves were pulling 2800-3100 dps while alliance were just barely touching 2300-2600 at best. It was just that massive a gap to cover.
I had guildie blood elf Pally way back in TBC, she was smokin hot, and an absolute badass. I remember how much she loved her Pally. At the time a woman playing an MMO was a lot more rare, a really hot one who played like a no lifer guy in moms basement was... kind of mind melting lol. She annihilated her enemies and was a total sweetheart to all her friends. Her legend lives on!
@@davidbanterford3216 very nice when every server is 90% horde to 10% alliance lol, nobody wants to play alliance in TBC That means queues are insanely long for Horde and as an alliance you get slaughteres everywhere you go in PvP servers. SO FUN FOR EVERYONE
Jóhan Dahl Sørensen hey, Alliance had vanilla domination, so it balances out. How many world firsts were done by humans and alliance in vanilla? Nothing wrong with having a bit of unbalance to add some spice. Just because it isn’t alliance pandering 100% does not make it bad.
When it came to arena, Ally racials became much more useful than they were in vanilla That being said, blood elf paladins are simply vastly Superior to Ally paladins and private servers give Ally paladins seal of blood to help compensate.
@@sebastianlavallee706 I'm talking about Stone Form, Escape artist, Gift of the Naruu, Perception, TBC onwards Shadowmeld (allows warriors to charge in combat), WotLK Everyman for Himself. Since this video is talking about BElf Racials and BElf are TBC
WillE! Big shout out. Thank you for all the clear and concise information, and well edited and presented videos. Your effort does not to unnoticed! Cheers
At this point I hope the player base aren't that much concerned with the "accuracy" of how classic TBC will be like it's original. Hell personally I would like some of the WotLK pre-patch functions to be added in such as the achievement system, the mount and pet tab and some other small quality of life changes. And maybe, just maybe, balance some of the major gap like this one for paladin in some way. (just an opinion don't roast me internet :))
7 proc per minute means the chance on every attack is calculated so with auto-attack you'll get an average of 7 ppm. But nothing stops you from being lucky each time and proccing it every time. Also, it can be triggered on some special moves, so realistically it is more than 7 ppm. Also, haste isn't a bad stat as the chance is calculated off the base weapon speed, not the actual weapon speed. Yes, Seal of Blood is still better both in terms of raw dps and mana regeneration for long fights, but there is so much misinformation about Seal of Command mechanics in this video :(
also the strength of seal of command was that it double dipped from vengeance talent. It increased the weapon damage by 15%, which increased the holy dmg component, which in turn was increased by 15% itself. this didnt affect seal of blood, which was a flat 35% weapon damage. so for command with vengeance active u got 115% weapon damage + 92.5%(70% of 115% wep dmg +15%) holy damage. with seal of blood with vengeance u did get 115% weapon damage, but the 35% holy damage didnt get a seperate 15% increase.
The ppm myth is just wrong. Seal of command proc is 7 ppm based on base weapon speed. So to determine whats % chance of it to proc (YES, YOU CAN HAVE 10 PROCS IN A RAW IF YOURE LUCKY!) you have formula: ; (7/(60/base weapon speed)) x 100. HASTE DOES SCALE WITH COMMAND (otherwsie you would have 80% proc chance with divine shield on or any other attack speed decreasing effects). With lucky procs Command might be better than blood (all lucky procs above 50% make command better; with 3,8-3,4 weapon speed % chance of command to proc is from 44 to 41; therefore the difference IS NOT huge [with SWP gear its like 17-19% total dmg; blood is like 21-23]). Human Paladins have mace specialization which gives expertise (the most wanted stat for melees before cap). Anyway, honestly, check EJ forum for more info wille. I dont mean to criticize you but well... This video is inaccurate (especially the command doesnt scale with haste part). And yes, ive been nerding ret paladin on like 3 private tbc servers. I know these are only private servers... But on all of them seal of command was working the same (and well, with 300 haste as ally paladin i have all ret paladin recrods in BT/MH/SWP of dps on ally side on a server i currently play on).
seal of command weapon procs does scale with spell damage in addition to weapon damage in classic, so here is the question, does seal of blood weapon procs also scale with spell damage in addition to weapon damage?
Ah thought it was purely weapon, I was looking at info from TBC era on it though, incase it was different from Vanilla to TBC. Either way its a pretty weak coefficient, and you arent really getting SP as ret anyways
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No the spell-power coefficient was removed later in TBC. But that's not the point you could predict SoB damage and it scaled better with windfury and other similar mechanic. Spell power is pretty string vanilla because of the extra judgement damage but not in BC.
On seal of command: You're wrong. The proc chance isn't limited to 7 procs per minute period. The 7PPM number is solely for determining what the proc % chance of command is.
Correct, and he is also wrong about haste lowering the proc % chance. The Proc % chance is always determined by the weapon speed and nothing else. Making it so command is actually better with haste. Something I didn't figure out until wow classic lol
Alliance paladin can actually pull with magic candles. They drop from geomancers in jasperlode mine so very easy to farm. It's basically a fireball item.
That's not how "procs per minute" works, procs per minute is just a way to calculate the actual proc chance so that all weapons proc as often regardless of weapon speed on average. Haste does NOT affect this chance so stacking haste still should be beneficial for the procs.
was going to say the same thing. The information regarding haste and seal of command proc per minute scaling are incorrect. The proc rate will always be based off the weapon speed and nothing else. Haste will actually make you "proc" it more because your swinging faster, but the proc rate still remains w.e your weapon speed was. I know this because I actually play ret paladin in classic currently
“ no conformation , but we would be foolish not to” no kidding, considering the first day release of classic. Like my god, best time ever 😊. Think that’s now one of my favorite memories
I used to tank with a paladin back then, on the horde side, and we were using SoB > SoR. Taking damage isn't your main concer all the time, and whenever you knew that your healer(s) could take it you were using SoB/JoB since we did have concerns about our mana. Taking damage > Heals > Mana equal to 10% of heal taken is restored. It is very minimal, but at times it was required especially when you were outgearing the dungeon (which could very easily happen). Damage taken was a concern as in we rarely took that much damage at times.
As someone that used seal twisting near the end of TBC I can tell you it was absolutely insane. The burst potential was nuts... instantly deleting elites in heroic dungeons wasn't out of the question. I have still never played any class in any MMO that was anywhere near as fun as BE paladin seal twisting at the end of TBC. Windfury was also a blast to add to this. It made the timing way harder to get under control but if you could manage decently you had a near constant stream of big burst damage.
@@cegant they simply chose the path of the alpha and shackled the light to their will like a chad would, whereas the beta humans and dwarves are constantly on their knees begging for it to work like someone with erectile dysfunction. i feel like the elves went out of their way to deliberately spite the paladins of the world because Arthas cucked Kael in regards to Jaina.
I would be very interested in seeing comparison of Blood elf paladin vs Alliance paladin who is taking advantage of all alliance racials in raid. Meaning Human Paladin using Sword/Mace with Draenei shammy and potentially draenei warr/hunter/pala in group - for that sweet +1% hit and +1% spell hit.
@@russianbot2179 well I can't give you a direct source other than my hours and hours of personally playing. Being on boss fights that last 2-3min and getting more than 7 procs per minute. In TBC private server and on the Classic servers run by blizz. This is a common misconception that has been pushed since seal of command was changed in WotLK to be an AoE ability instead of a proc. The use of PPM in regards to seal of command became confused over time to mean that it will proc only 7 times a minute not that the proc chance is based on the 7 hits proc per minute on weapon speed. The slower the weapon speed the higher the proc chance, it is not hard capped at 7 procs.
@@russianbot2179 I comment this standalone, but I'll copy here: 5:46 PPM does scale with haste though. Base PPM does not represent actual PPM. We see this very clearly in Classic right now. Actual PPM is influenced by haste and instant attacks. As a rogue with Bloodfang in Classic, you can expect an actual PPM of its proc up to 4 times its base PPM of 0.83. The same applies to PPM mechanics like Crusader.
@@russianbot2179 PPM is a dynamic system which differentiates your actual chance to proc something depending on your weapon swing speed. It changes proc chance. It is not capping the ammount of procs you got in minute. And any haste effects are not changing the base weapon speed. Thats why you got more procs per minute when you are using Seal of the Crusader for example.
This is correct. in classic , up to wrath the game worked with a PPM system where RNG was still prevalent, a 7 PPM ability could proc 2 times, or it could proc 10 times. So haste did scale with it very well. Later this was changed to RPPM, relative proc per minute where the proc chance increased the longed a proc had not occurred. That is why most abilities procced near the start of a fight, as time pushed the proc chance way up. With this system there was still some RNG involved, but the actual PPM was stabilised a bit more.
Well, since this WILL make the imbalance worse I think it's something Blizzard needs to check. Either tweaking the number in the Belf racial down or they scale better the Alliance seals.
Couple of things. You made a comment about alliance maybe taking gear that didnt have int. You never wanted int in TBC as a ret paladin. It was bad itemization that led to lower dps. Seal twisting was not mana taxing if you did it correctly. You use rank 1 seal of command. It cost 54 mana to cast. The only damage that went up with ranks was the judgement. I am happy that you mention seal twisting at least. Was fun to do correctly. Armor pen was still good even for horde paladins but yes, haste was the preferred of the two stats. It's not like Horde wouldn't use armor pen. Good vid overall, just my 2 cents as a lifelong paladin.
@@alexarsenault8854 Most top alliance players play Nightelves, at least if they push Mythic+ apart from raiding. Unless I misunderstood and it's modern day classic alliance.
I always thought haste increases your attack speed not weapon speed. Because if that’s the case you mostly want to be getting haste. You get to attack faster while keeping the same command proc, as well as having your global cd reduced. One of the biggest limiting factors for me as a ref paladin is not my mana pool, it’s the globa cd. The reason why ret only has a 5 hit combo is because it’s impossible to seal twist at the 2 hit because of the global cd.
Blizzard: You know what? Let's take the faction with the best racials, and give them another OP racial. That would surely make sense. Those filthy Allies can have OP Escape Artist Warriors, so everyone can make fun of them.
@@kryhun7906 Which is shitty design in general. But even shittier given the fact that pvp moved to focus on instanced small teams, so there is no numbers advantage. So you just had horde with better racials because reasons.
And also Judgement of command is so weird, And isn't properly treated like a spell, For instance it goes off MELEE crit and not spell crit. Also, 7 PPM is NOT a cap, It's an average so with a 3.5 weapon, Seal of Command has a 46% chance too proc, But a weapon speed of 2.00 would have about a 20% chance to proc PER hit , And this averages at 7 PPM but it is not HARD capped at 7 its just an average. It cud proc 4 times perminute or 14 big dice game.
Even in Classic right now, Some of us Top Paladins, Are using haste as it increases the proc chance of SoC i don't even know if you're going too see this, But please don't throw all this bad information out about my favourite class in the game shooting it into the floor with incorrect facts, Haste WILL benefit us ALOT in TBC.
I could be wrong but I don't think there is a resistance for Holy and I'm pretty sure holy spells can only miss not be resisted. So seeing as seal of blood is an attack application and not an attack itself I'm not sure if it can miss, though again I could be wrong about that.
Orc+everything. Human+everything. seriously it is the meta. Orcs passive scales with spellpower and attack power (including ranged). Also 5% pet damage is good for BM hunter one shot rotation Humans rep passive is fucking amazing because alot of tbc early gear is barred behind exalted rep. TBC is basically a rep grind until BT. Now it might not feel that way at first. But when you are grinding to revered and exalted with 7 different factions it saves you days in playtime. Then factor in alts and humans shine.
SoB was scaling so well with haste back then that the spear from SWP trash mobs was actually BiS, even though it had no +Str on it. We got 2 in the first 3 or 4 trash pulls when we started raiding it, I got the 2nd one (we only had 1 hunter at that time), it made me shelf Cataclysm Edge. And my belf ret pally was doing pretty good back then (before the WotLK pre-patch I mean, which made us ridiculously broken), especially with said spear, to the annoyance of my fellow melees. Late TBC raiding was a blast, one of my fondest memories in WoW (along with hardmode Mimiron in WotLK). And I agree with other posters: the Blood Knight tabard was reason enough for playing a belf pally over anything Alliance !
As a 15 year old kid in vanilla I always felt in the back of my mind that blizz devs either at best were incompetent at racial balance or at worst favored horde. Did anyone else feel this way or was it just me being paranoid? Playing classic now, Alliance gets ROFLstomped and it brings back those old curiosities. The go to back then was "alliance is just a bunch of kids" and yes it may have been true at the time, but now I feel that we are a bunch of 30 year old boomers with jobs and families. What are your guys thoughts on this?
What I find really weird about this, you are not the only one that thinks that's the case, is that there is plenty of evidence Blizz develops, and to some extent favors, the alliance. When I say develop I mean literally everything races, cities, stories and zones (look at the barrens ffs lmao). I belive they put more effort in making the alliance part, aaand then they rush the horde shit and have no time to think all their way through.
@Johnny Guillotine interesting. I'm on westfall and it's one of the coolest playerbase I've ever met. Need help with your whirlwind axe quest? Someone will aid you.
Alliance got a way better leveling experience and way nicer cities but for some reason the racial benefits were insanely stronger for horde in both pve and pvp for ages
I always felt the Devs favors the Horde, but are not as inspired by their aesthetic. I also aggree that nowadays, the Alliance has a more older and more casual playerbase. Go to any big servers and watch trade chat for 15mins on each faction. It is usually quite different.
@willE Human has Expertise? And because of this, i'm not sure what direction Blizzard should take to alleviate the issue. 1) Do nothing... not ideal 2) Give blood and vengeance to both factions. Well now Human is best DPS, best Raid tank and Blood elf is best dungeon tank because aoe silence is OP and 30 yard mana steal is nice for pulling. It really is an oversight by you not considering the Human Expertise factor. In TBC, Humans get +5 expertise when wearing Maces or Swords. The effect of which cannot be overstated, the stat is easily the most powerful in all of the expansion. Reducing the chance that the boss parries AND dodges by 0.25% per point for a total of 1.25% per. For a DPS attacking from behind, this alters 1.25% of all dodges to regular hits instead. Mind you there is no way to reduce glancing blow chance, or the effect of glancing blows in TBC. Further more, for a tank. Expertise is a mitigation stat, as every time the boss parries on of your attacks. The boss gains up to 40% haste for the next attack. Not that big for dungeons, certainly not enough to bump Humans over Blood elves in overall performance. But on raid bosses, parry-haste (as the mechanic is known as) can destroy a very quickly. Prince Malchezaar is notorious for near instantly killing tanks due to the parry-haste mechanic in the second phase where he dual wields his axes, and use the thrash ability which causes him to deal 2 additional hits on his next hit. One strategy to avoid this, is to simply have every DPS do very low damage during phase 1, so that the tank can stop attacking during phase 2, as parry-haste can not occur if the tank does not get parried.
If alliance gets blood - it would be nothing really. Since Belfs still the best for pvp, have orcs as the best dps hunters and warlocks. Have trolls as the best casters, taurens as the best druid tanks and so on and so on. Even with seal change horde will dominate pretty much every server. I can't see giving both seals to both factions being the bad thing in any case really.
The one thing that makes me hope they start from a fresh server on TBC.. so I'm not so far behind with my horde paladin, after playing alliance in classic.
If you want to tank Human is the way. Free expertise and Seal of Vengeance is the superior tanking seal. Also SoB doesn't scale with spell power. At least it didn't in TBC.
It’s not a coincidence that paladins started to become viable when it came to dps after the horde got them. What’s worse is that they made it so horde paladins were better. I actually remember reading that 90% of the vanilla devs were horde which is why they had superior pvp racials and why belf paladins got a better seal.
Um i sweated in BC as pallys, if you where BE ret pally, you would use seal of command with a slow 2h, if you ever had a slow 2h weapon you used command over blood, but as BE you chased fast 2h weapons because of Blood, and as an ally ret pally you chased the slowest 2h weapons you could get your hands on for seal of command, and haste effected you really well as an ally ret pally because of this.
What made BE pallies better than alliance pallies is seal of blood, which used to damage you as you DPSed, making healers heal you a little bit, making you regenerate mana through spiritual attunement. Again, Blizzard subtly stating their disdain for alliance back in the day.
Anyone in the know want to comment on how gnome warriors compare to orc warriors for arenas? This is really my only interest for tbc. I know escape artist is nerfed and orc stun resist too, however, its indirectly buffed for warriora due to moving toughness from prot to arms tree. But I could still see escape artist being better since there will be lots of druids? lmk what u think
I have a question about Crusader strike,it says it refresh all the seals on the target,so if u play ally,can u get 5stacks of SoV and swap to SoR,does crusader strike refresh that 5stacks from SoV???
@@Quplas you are partially right, in that class abilities were more defined. However, in Vanilla WoW, Paladins were literally the *only* class that did *NOT* have a way to pull from range (except for specific abilities you had to spec into).
Except arcane torrent changed later and now dispells buffs rather than silences, and if they go with the retail vs for balance vs classic you will end up with then both being more equal
Hey can you do some class videos for all TBC classes. I see people levelling alts now that if they can only take 1 hero over to tbc and I can’t find any good breakdowns on classes with playstyle, dps ranking etc
@ll Not shockadin, you stack spelldamage and go with Manual Crowd Pummeler from Gnomergan and use weapon oils and other effects that triggers with chance on hit effects. check Judgementret com
I just think blizzard should change that, either give Seal of Blood to alliance or make Seal of Vengeance scaling with weapon and haste. Also, the 7 per minute proc thing is idiot, why should this exist? It will just make the game better.
just waiting for one of these videos to announce tbc classic I'd be more hyped for that then SHADOWLANDS. If I had to choose shadowlands or TBC classic it would be TBC hands down of course I will play shadowlands as I gotta scratch that itch but retail only gets me hooked for a month or 2 b4 I get bored. Only legion got me interested BFA was really boring
The 70% weapon damage proc from seal of command does not dictate that you want a slow weapon. That is a common but completely nonsensical mis-explanation. What it means is that, rather logically, you want the weapon with the highest damage range. Usually slower weapons have a higher damage range, but that is not the same thing - a faster weapon with higher damage range is better than a slower weapon with lower damage range.
They have silence from recial, dwarfs have stoneform ( poisons & bleeds ) that’s far more better then Blood elf for surviving, silence is for a breed moment inside in arenas,but dwarf man...
Ton of misinformation in this video... I don't know shit about tbc tbh, even tho i played ret in tbc, but in CLASSIC spell power DOES boost SoC and haste is GOOD. 7PPM is a tool to calculate proc chance around weapon speed, it is not a guarantee for 7 procs a minute, nor a cap. You can still get really lucky and have soc procs all the way through the fight, or u may get none, even tho it is highly unlikely either way. With any weapon at slower than 3.7 speed, you have pretty close to 50% proc chance.
Yes, proc is 44% for 3,8 speed, 43 for 3,7, 42 for 3,5 and so on. Moreover, SoC DOES SCALE with haste (otherwise haste decreasing effects would change % chance of command; like with divine shield it would be 80% or something :D).
Im playing human paladin atm but will defentaly reroll a blood elf when TBC. Hopefully i can just transfer and "race change" even tho race change was not in TBC, atleast not in the begning. But changing server wasnt a part of vanilla until very late but it is now. so hopefully blizzard will help us out for once. I will pay blizz, i will pay!!!
because he is not a private server player or a neckbeard he just googles some obvious thing and done he even forgot to mention that the biggest change in tbc is leatherworking cuz u get drums and if u have 4 people with leatherworking in every raidgroup u have a 100% uptime on drums thats why tbc bosses only last seconds barely some minutes
Start with judgement of crusader one, switch to crusader strike, switch to judgement of command and repeat. Sounds too much min maxing considering that 25man raid needs only one ret but whatever.
I vividly remember starting to level my paladin before the Wrath pre-patch hit. I honestly had no idea what was coming. Logged back into Dustwallow marsh and proceeded to destroy everything and everyone. It was just ridiculous. Run up to someone. Stun + Judgement for a +50% crit chance judgement that takes out more than half of their health. It was just bizzare
@@Davisrullzs Yea i remember that day too man,before the patch came out i was struggling to kill 2 or 3 mobs at once on Sunwell isle,then the patch rolls and i was killing like 10 mobs at a time with 80 % hp left and then i wondered how about some ganking,then i went and 1vs3 people all over the island,it was broken but fun while it lasted. The only class that was able to counter me was other ret pallys,that day was also known as revenge of the ret pallies. All that frustatrion that was acumulated in 2 expansions was finally unleashed in a single day and every other class felt it and still remembers it to this day...
Horde racials were massively buffed to get people to play horde. There won't be any alliance if racials aren't changed. #nochanges means a lot of changes since the players have changed.
I actually cried laughing when you mentioned fury warriors, totally forgot they existed in TBC, just thinking about that there will be fury warriors with glaives makes me laugh
Tbf I would prioritize a rogue over a warrior for the glaives since rogues have sword spec and need swords to be good while fury warriors can make use of the drakefist hammers.
Dwarf paladins are the only ones that can reliably solo tank Nalorakk (and thus solotank entire ZA), because they can cancel the bleed 2 times (racial + bubble). Being able to take another DPS in a time run is a huge deal and makes dwarves the best prot pally in TBC, as every other racial factor is irrelevant in pve.
@@hacklbarry5365 You'll have a fury warrior anyways, so a prot warrior won't add any noticeable dps support. Prot pala +2 furys + bm + enhancer is probably the highest dps cleave group you can build for a ZA run.
Mediocre for the first half of TBC. You can hard scale and outperform most players by the end of BT going into Sunwell with BiS items as blood elf retribution if you can seal twist. It will arguably be MUCH easier with today latency. You only want ONE ret paladin in your raid for the mana regen judgement for your warlocks ( they are top dps at that point ). You can beat glaives rogues and warriors can't touch you ( but warrior dps is a joke for TBC ). I would strongly advice you to build a protection set on the side as well. For some fights it's better to have you aoe tanking than doing dps ( especially Felmyst ). Source : Played horde retribution back in the days. Had a few top 10 world parse. You WILL need full consumables and a drum group. You need leatherworking and drums. They are not optional. You can expect 2.4-2.8k dps on stuff like Brutallus, the Twins, etc. Ret is the best tank for KJ as well because of Judgement of light ludicrous threat. But honestly... good luck. You'll need it and proving yourself as a skilled ret to any guild worth the time is gonna take work.
@@Furyel2 Thank you very much bro for taking the time and giving that advice, I am not sure what class I want to play on TBC since right now I am with a war fury and I wanted to change horizons
Dont believe that, the answere is bullshit. Every Hybrid loses against DPS classes. All of them(Mage is a bit weak) do 3k+ DPS in Sunwell. Especially Hunter and WL can do 3.5k. U wont even get close to that with a Hybrid. Pala will do about 2.5k DPS. The truth is u only use Hybrids for heal, buffs and/or tanking.
I have one on allliance side on netherwing, the best tbc private server around nowadays. Then i played on a friends account pn horde. The game play didnt change much. The dps difference in t5 and t6 wasnt neglectable but not game breaking either. On retail I mained a horde paladin from 2.3 to 3.3.5 and I dont remember people crying about SoB as much, just ackowledging the imbalance but moving on. When classic tbc comes out, dont fall for the horde is better meme. Just play whatever you want and focus on fun and playing with friends.
one thing he missed is that due to the strength of prot pally on allaince, it is almost neccessary for at least one ret pally in the raid. Having a ret while a prot pally is tanking means that the Prot pally does 10% more holy damage and the ret can CS to refresh seals on the boss making the prot pally pull even further ahead of warriors and druids on threat. In speed runs the name of the game is maximizing threat over survivability for speed clears.
A human Ret Paladin in tbc with a Draenei in group will shit over horde pallys without even trying! hit and expertise > SoB. You have to take into account averything, not just the seals and a minor mana regen racial.Which in that case, SoV scales better on long fights than SoB (aka Boss fights) .
Do you guys remember when B.C. talents were released 2 weeks before B.C. was officially released and Ret Paly and Arcane Mage were the most O.P. characters by far! One shots everywhere. Every single 2v2 team was double Ret and they would just run in both Bubble, Wings, and kill you. (This was before bubble reduced damage) and in battleground it was all arcane mages one shooting people.
So I looked it up here... wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_power_coefficient?oldid=1492745 (the july 4th 2008 back version of the page) Seal of Command does have a spell power coefficient of 20% like in vanilla according to this list. (and a holy damage coefficient of 29%, but it's not on the list... I think that's correct but not 100% sure) SoB is still better probably (the opinion is so ubiquitous that I'm taking their word for it lol) but just correcting the thing about SoC not scaling with non holy damage.
That is my biggest concern surrounding TBC, faction balance is tipped toward Horde even on Classic and when Horde get even more benefits in TBC I fear that Alliance will be in such a disadvantage that it would discourage people from playing it. I mean why would you want to play on the side where theres less people to group up with and they even have weaker racials. The only advantage Alliance has right now is the instant BG que. But not everyone likes PvP and to this day, I regret rolling Alliance on classic PvP server, where the Horde is the dominant faction, because you just get ganked all the time.
This is why i think in the case of TBC they should make some changes in racials and the Alliance paladin Seals, i think faction balance is more important than keep these things exactly like was back then.
Its a tough one because this is 100% going to be the biggest concern. On private servers they give alliance paladins SoB to make sure people dont cause an imbalance but the 'no changes' brigade will riot at blizz if they done the same
Faction-based loggin queues=problem solved. If the server population cap is 300 (only for example) then 150 can be horde and 150 can be alliance. If you want to be on the dominant faction you gotta wait to play. Populations will fix itself as people move to lower pop servers.
What's true is that back then they rly wanted players to go for horde, because they were less. But now.. Well.. It's better for the horde with more players with the horde already.
Although in classic open world pvp is only ganking. The person that attacks first, kills. Almost every time. As hunter you have no possibility to escape from rogues or warriors. I switched to a pve realm once I realized that it is no use, even though I was on a pvp realm my whole retail life.
@@mysterymastermind175 Also because dwarf has some good dmg mitigation. Paladin doesn't get many dmg reduction abilities, they rely alot on the passive that gives them dmg reduction below a certain HP threshold.
I just realize that Arcan Torent doesn't silence anymore. Suck ! Remove 1 beneficial effect from all enemies within 8 yards and restore 3% of your Mana. - Wowhead
Blood Elf Pallies were the only ones that started with a Sword. That pretty much made up my mind for why I rolled one in TBC.
and you got really cool looking sword and spear for 20 or so lvl questing which was very satisfying. also add that they are actually evil paladins during TBC and basically vampiring light energy from captured Naaru, have quest to mock and corrupt alliance paladin relics...i so miss belf pals being evil
@@sanderkiki Yeah they should have stayed blood knights. that whole redemption thing was lame.
@Brian Yeah some were arrogant assholes for sure but not all of us. I think all the hate was horde getting paladins better then the alliance.
Horde best faction , first pvp and pve , alliance is not they still farming mounts and hidding in small house like a rat 😎👊, good city and bad faction
@@cegant If you actually "hate" the horde you might need to take a little break and find yourself.
I always believed Starcraft was balanced by accident. The more time passes the more I believe.
OrdoMallius
Then you would be ignoring the mountains of patches and nerfs throughout the years. Original Starcraft on release was not perfectly balance in any way shape or form
It's also being balanced to this day through creating new maps and removing old ones from the map pool. The oldest map used in the last ASL was from 2010, the vast majority was from 2019. This aspect is often overlooked and understandably so, it doesn't really have an equivalent in most genres. The initial map pool played today would make the game look terribly balanced.
You're not wrong actually. The sheer number of possible combinations preclude the reality of considering them all even on today's super computers.
lmao balanced? have you been to the SC forums lately and seen all the QQ about buffing terran and/or nerfing protoss?
@@PsyrenXY Brood War, not SC2.
Could you do this video in reverse and look at the differences between draenai shaman vs the horde shaman?
Its kinda the same draenei are a joke compared to Orcs with bloodfury and Axe skill
Orc is better in every way apart from group support. Draenei provides spell hit to up to 5 players. If elemental, 4 total hit in conjunction with totem of wrath.
Enhance, not even close. Axe expertise is extremely good.
Novat troll beserking in purely PvE scenario can pull ahead of orc since enhance scales on haste.
Horde wins. end of story
@@abk5828 I get that I'd just be interested in a video that highlighted the differences
Don't forget Blood Elf paladin's can judge Seal of Blood to break Polymorph in arena, similar to priests using Shadow Word Death right as enemy mage's cast goes off. Or predicting scattershot etc. Good way to catch enemies offguard when they dispell your Blessing of Sacrifice
No they cant. Seal of blood is dmg on hit. To break polly/sap/any other cc effect you use spell "blessing of sacrifice" (both ally and horde). Your enemies cant dispell your seal of blood due to your talent tree (your seals are undispellable).
@@krowaswieta7944 Judging Seal of Blood damages yourself and its delayed. It works like Shadow Word death, I got to Gladiator rank as a BE paladin back in Season 2 TBC
@@JaySea Yes, it damages you. But tell me, dear gladiator, how do you want to swing/judge when you're pollied :D? And well, command procs with delay, not blood (and thats why you could seal twist only from command to blood, not other way around).
@@JaySea Anyway, im bit retarded so i had read "can dispell your blood" instead of sacrifice.
@@JaySea And hey, you might be right. I forgot about ridiculous spell bacthing from TBC era. So yea, i admit it could work with some delay (was playing tbc for pvp on private servers where they just removed spell batching thingy; and i dont remeber retail tbc clearly enough to be sure if youre right; after closer examination though i think its highly possible)
Last time I was this early there was an 8 debuff slot limit.
5:46 PPM does scale with haste though. Base PPM does not represent actual PPM. We see this very clearly in Classic right now.
Actual PPM is influenced by haste and instant attacks. As a rogue with Bloodfang in Classic, you can expect an actual PPM of its proc up to 4 times its base PPM of 0.83. The same applies to PPM mechanics like Crusader.
It's unfortunate that half this video's points have to be thrown out the window because of this one misconception.
@@Rave.- Willie is not reliable source of information, when it comes to actual deep mechanics. But atleast he is right in the main subject :)
@@Rave.- To fully disregard the point you would still need to know exactly how much haste a Paladin can stack without sacrificing other stats (like Mastery which is always more important to cap) and then how many more procs can you expect out of those extra attacks.
My guess is that you would need quite a lot to make up the difference and gearing as an Alli Paladin might not feel as good.
When I saw this video title, as a former BElf Prot Pally main, the first thing I thought of is Arcane Torrent. Extremely useful for bringing in that caster that's just out of range, interrupting something nasty that's about to wreck you, or just getting a little mana back on the cheap. What a ridiculously good racial ability, especially before they gave prot access to Rebuke.
the lore behind Blood Knights (Blood Elf Paladins) was cool, now they are just like their alliance counterparts ...
Man, I still miss OG Arcane Torrent. I mean an AoE offensive dispel is situationally useful as well, but I still try to use it as an AoE interrupt on accident from time to time. xD
Did the take away the silence? Wtf it was stilla silence in legion
@@justincoltharp9701 Yes. BFA instances seemed to have a lot more bad but dispellable enemy buffs than previous expansions and some packs can have multiple making an AoE offensive dispel a little more desirable situationally. That’s probably a little tinfoil hat of me to say though. I adored the caster control that Protection Paladins and Vengeance Demon Hunters had, but it’s indeed gone. Seems like it was a PvP nerf that affected PvE as well as per usual.
@@BlastHeart96 yeah they shouldnt of nerfed it, it was part of monk and dk burst window
It's still one of the most beneficial racials and outside of specific bosses like Goblin for Kiljaeden and Troll for Jaina, the primary resource gain has always been considered too good for anything that needs it. It even saw itself be OP in the raid tier it was changed.
I really like how you didn't compare seal of vengaence with seal of blood but rather with seal of command...wasm't even aware of it. Nice Vid!
Paladin was my go-to towards the end of Vanilla and mostly played horde prior to the release of TBC. Then after the release of TBC it was clear that I really enjoyed Paladin a lot, AND a good friend had a good guild I could join with her. That solidified the choice and experience. With that said, it was clear throughout TBC how superior horde Paladins were compared with Alliance. This time around should there be a Classic TBC, I will take the time to level a horde Paladin and have fun with my current guild which is absolutely amazing.
Was a Human Ret Pally in BC and the 2 biggest issues with Alliance ret were:Mana bar go poof and Command being unreliable. In full t4 or equal gear a blood elf ret could break 1k dps and be roughly middle of the pack. Alliance ret had to fix mana issues via consumables and hit up vanilla hard for anything and everything to get that few % to keep up with blood. By the time Sunwell was winding down many Blood elves were pulling 2800-3100 dps while alliance were just barely touching 2300-2600 at best. It was just that massive a gap to cover.
I had guildie blood elf Pally way back in TBC, she was smokin hot, and an absolute badass. I remember how much she loved her Pally. At the time a woman playing an MMO was a lot more rare, a really hot one who played like a no lifer guy in moms basement was... kind of mind melting lol. She annihilated her enemies and was a total sweetheart to all her friends. Her legend lives on!
But I really LOVED how there were differences still between the factions, something retail has in no way anymore for a long time.
@Jóhan Dahl Sørensen boo hoo /cry
@Jóhan Dahl Sørensen You could say the same about classes. "so fun when one class is stronger than the others" so let's make them all the same.
@@davidbanterford3216 very nice when every server is 90% horde to 10% alliance lol, nobody wants to play alliance in TBC
That means queues are insanely long for Horde and as an alliance you get slaughteres everywhere you go in PvP servers.
SO FUN FOR EVERYONE
@Jóhan Dahl Sørensen racials always been unbalanced between factions
Jóhan Dahl Sørensen hey, Alliance had vanilla domination, so it balances out. How many world firsts were done by humans and alliance in vanilla? Nothing wrong with having a bit of unbalance to add some spice. Just because it isn’t alliance pandering 100% does not make it bad.
dam, i didn't realize back in the day how much of a advantage the horde seemed to have :O
Only for PvE tho, Alliance racials are better for PvP
@@iven0007 So you think Will of the Forsaken, War Stomp, Arcane Torrent, Blood Fury and Hardiness can match Alliance racials in pvp?
When it came to arena, Ally racials became much more useful than they were in vanilla
That being said, blood elf paladins are simply vastly Superior to Ally paladins and private servers give Ally paladins seal of blood to help compensate.
@@sebastianlavallee706 I'm talking about Stone Form, Escape artist, Gift of the Naruu, Perception, TBC onwards Shadowmeld (allows warriors to charge in combat), WotLK Everyman for Himself.
Since this video is talking about BElf Racials and BElf are TBC
@@iven0007 yea the horde racials are good if you're looking for the cheese style ones, alliance racials actually take skill to pull off
WillE! Big shout out. Thank you for all the clear and concise information, and well edited and presented videos. Your effort does not to unnoticed! Cheers
Go**
First 10 second where enough. Liked and subscribed. Good Video xD
The number of Arena fights I won as holy simply via mana tap and arcane torrenting their healers....
At this point I hope the player base aren't that much concerned with the "accuracy" of how classic TBC will be like it's original. Hell personally I would like some of the WotLK pre-patch functions to be added in such as the achievement system, the mount and pet tab and some other small quality of life changes. And maybe, just maybe, balance some of the major gap like this one for paladin in some way. (just an opinion don't roast me internet :))
Or even better... the 3.0 Ret pal. From straggler to god.
7 proc per minute means the chance on every attack is calculated so with auto-attack you'll get an average of 7 ppm. But nothing stops you from being lucky each time and proccing it every time. Also, it can be triggered on some special moves, so realistically it is more than 7 ppm. Also, haste isn't a bad stat as the chance is calculated off the base weapon speed, not the actual weapon speed.
Yes, Seal of Blood is still better both in terms of raw dps and mana regeneration for long fights, but there is so much misinformation about Seal of Command mechanics in this video :(
also the strength of seal of command was that it double dipped from vengeance talent. It increased the weapon damage by 15%, which increased the holy dmg component, which in turn was increased by 15% itself. this didnt affect seal of blood, which was a flat 35% weapon damage. so for command with vengeance active u got 115% weapon damage + 92.5%(70% of 115% wep dmg +15%) holy damage. with seal of blood with vengeance u did get 115% weapon damage, but the 35% holy damage didnt get a seperate 15% increase.
Big true, haste does scale with command.
@@kyrrilcrepeele1353 Are you sure about double dipping of command? Can you send some source?
9:55 what about humans sword and mace racials?
what about orcs axe racials?
@@ZakPrestor orcs can't be paladins and theirs always more and better swords and maces in the game then axes.
True that
@@naquan59 you didn't specify the context =)
@@ZakPrestor the entire video is about paladins m8
The ppm myth is just wrong. Seal of command proc is 7 ppm based on base weapon speed. So to determine whats % chance of it to proc (YES, YOU CAN HAVE 10 PROCS IN A RAW IF YOURE LUCKY!) you have formula: ; (7/(60/base weapon speed)) x 100. HASTE DOES SCALE WITH COMMAND (otherwsie you would have 80% proc chance with divine shield on or any other attack speed decreasing effects). With lucky procs Command might be better than blood (all lucky procs above 50% make command better; with 3,8-3,4 weapon speed % chance of command to proc is from 44 to 41; therefore the difference IS NOT huge [with SWP gear its like 17-19% total dmg; blood is like 21-23]).
Human Paladins have mace specialization which gives expertise (the most wanted stat for melees before cap).
Anyway, honestly, check EJ forum for more info wille. I dont mean to criticize you but well... This video is inaccurate (especially the command doesnt scale with haste part). And yes, ive been nerding ret paladin on like 3 private tbc servers. I know these are only private servers... But on all of them seal of command was working the same (and well, with 300 haste as ally paladin i have all ret paladin recrods in BT/MH/SWP of dps on ally side on a server i currently play on).
seal of command weapon procs does scale with spell damage in addition to weapon damage in classic,
so here is the question, does seal of blood weapon procs also scale with spell damage in addition to weapon damage?
yes, it says so in the video. Seal of Blood simply scales way better than Command.
No. SoC has a 29% spell coefficient but SoB doesn't scale with spell power at all (it makes it a pretty poor seal as protpaladin).
Ah thought it was purely weapon, I was looking at info from TBC era on it though, incase it was different from Vanilla to TBC. Either way its a pretty weak coefficient, and you arent really getting SP as ret anyways
No the spell-power coefficient was removed later in TBC. But that's not the point you could predict SoB damage and it scaled better with windfury and other similar mechanic. Spell power is pretty string vanilla because of the extra judgement damage but not in BC.
On seal of command: You're wrong. The proc chance isn't limited to 7 procs per minute period. The 7PPM number is solely for determining what the proc % chance of command is.
Interesting.
Correct, and he is also wrong about haste lowering the proc % chance. The Proc % chance is always determined by the weapon speed and nothing else. Making it so command is actually better with haste. Something I didn't figure out until wow classic lol
Alliance paladin can actually pull with magic candles. They drop from geomancers in jasperlode mine so very easy to farm. It's basically a fireball item.
This is currently in Classic by the way!
I remember farming those for hours so I wouldn't have to worry about it for a long time !
That's not how "procs per minute" works, procs per minute is just a way to calculate the actual proc chance so that all weapons proc as often regardless of weapon speed on average. Haste does NOT affect this chance so stacking haste still should be beneficial for the procs.
was going to say the same thing. The information regarding haste and seal of command proc per minute scaling are incorrect. The proc rate will always be based off the weapon speed and nothing else. Haste will actually make you "proc" it more because your swinging faster, but the proc rate still remains w.e your weapon speed was. I know this because I actually play ret paladin in classic currently
“ no conformation , but we would be foolish not to” no kidding, considering the first day release of classic. Like my god, best time ever 😊. Think that’s now one of my favorite memories
I used to tank with a paladin back then, on the horde side, and we were using SoB > SoR. Taking damage isn't your main concer all the time, and whenever you knew that your healer(s) could take it you were using SoB/JoB since we did have concerns about our mana. Taking damage > Heals > Mana equal to 10% of heal taken is restored. It is very minimal, but at times it was required especially when you were outgearing the dungeon (which could very easily happen). Damage taken was a concern as in we rarely took that much damage at times.
As someone that used seal twisting near the end of TBC I can tell you it was absolutely insane. The burst potential was nuts... instantly deleting elites in heroic dungeons wasn't out of the question. I have still never played any class in any MMO that was anywhere near as fun as BE paladin seal twisting at the end of TBC.
Windfury was also a blast to add to this. It made the timing way harder to get under control but if you could manage decently you had a near constant stream of big burst damage.
How does seal twisting work?
I miss my frost mage from TBC private server lol. That gnome was a nightmare on wheels.
And ontop of that I dislikes the ally seal since I'm paladin, not a dot class.
By that logic dealing dmg to yourself also isn't really paladin like if you ask me.
@@Panzerkuchen I think both abilities work well thematically
WTF, this is some retarded logic. One seal with damage over time will not turn you into a dot class, don't be a moron.
@@cegant they simply chose the path of the alpha and shackled the light to their will like a chad would, whereas the beta humans and dwarves are constantly on their knees begging for it to work like someone with erectile dysfunction.
i feel like the elves went out of their way to deliberately spite the paladins of the world because Arthas cucked Kael in regards to Jaina.
I would be very interested in seeing comparison of Blood elf paladin vs Alliance paladin who is taking advantage of all alliance racials in raid. Meaning Human Paladin using Sword/Mace with Draenei shammy and potentially draenei warr/hunter/pala in group - for that sweet +1% hit and +1% spell hit.
I'm a dwarf paladin, I watched this video, and I'm fucking depressed, I beg you blizzard, some changes, we need seal of martyr..
grats
@@GalloPhilips thanks! :D
PPM is only the proc chance, it is not capped at 7 procs per minute
source?
@@russianbot2179 well I can't give you a direct source other than my hours and hours of personally playing. Being on boss fights that last 2-3min and getting more than 7 procs per minute. In TBC private server and on the Classic servers run by blizz. This is a common misconception that has been pushed since seal of command was changed in WotLK to be an AoE ability instead of a proc. The use of PPM in regards to seal of command became confused over time to mean that it will proc only 7 times a minute not that the proc chance is based on the 7 hits proc per minute on weapon speed. The slower the weapon speed the higher the proc chance, it is not hard capped at 7 procs.
@@russianbot2179 I comment this standalone, but I'll copy here:
5:46 PPM does scale with haste though. Base PPM does not represent actual PPM. We see this very clearly in Classic right now.
Actual PPM is influenced by haste and instant attacks. As a rogue with Bloodfang in Classic, you can expect an actual PPM of its proc up to 4 times its base PPM of 0.83. The same applies to PPM mechanics like Crusader.
@@russianbot2179 PPM is a dynamic system which differentiates your actual chance to proc something depending on your weapon swing speed. It changes proc chance. It is not capping the ammount of procs you got in minute. And any haste effects are not changing the base weapon speed. Thats why you got more procs per minute when you are using Seal of the Crusader for example.
This is correct. in classic , up to wrath the game worked with a PPM system where RNG was still prevalent, a 7 PPM ability could proc 2 times, or it could proc 10 times. So haste did scale with it very well. Later this was changed to RPPM, relative proc per minute where the proc chance increased the longed a proc had not occurred. That is why most abilities procced near the start of a fight, as time pushed the proc chance way up. With this system there was still some RNG involved, but the actual PPM was stabilised a bit more.
The seal of command proc, at least in classic, does scale with Spelllpower.
Well, since this WILL make the imbalance worse I think it's something Blizzard needs to check. Either tweaking the number in the Belf racial down or they scale better the Alliance seals.
#NoChanges
Imagine balancing a 13 year old game lul
They are too scared of no changes croud.
Did they make any change with Classic regarding racial spells of priests? No? Then nope, leave it as it was back then.
Couple of things. You made a comment about alliance maybe taking gear that didnt have int. You never wanted int in TBC as a ret paladin. It was bad itemization that led to lower dps.
Seal twisting was not mana taxing if you did it correctly. You use rank 1 seal of command. It cost 54 mana to cast. The only damage that went up with ranks was the judgement. I am happy that you mention seal twisting at least. Was fun to do correctly.
Armor pen was still good even for horde paladins but yes, haste was the preferred of the two stats. It's not like Horde wouldn't use armor pen.
Good vid overall, just my 2 cents as a lifelong paladin.
Hey man I know you only have 40k subs but your videos are awesome! you will get to the top one day love your content!
It didnt matter which faction pally was better since they both got the *fabulous* pink tier set.
Gonna hate seeing 50% of the Horde taken over as Bloodelves. Rip dif races in the Horde.
I mean classic horde is already like 90% orc/undead
@@andrew-f8x kinda like 60% UD, 25% orc,10% troll, 5% tauren
@@crysosisback7115 and all those 5% play druid 😂
@@alexarsenault8854 Most top alliance players play Nightelves, at least if they push Mythic+ apart from raiding.
Unless I misunderstood and it's modern day classic alliance.
"You think you do, but you don't" in work here
I always thought haste increases your attack speed not weapon speed. Because if that’s the case you mostly want to be getting haste. You get to attack faster while keeping the same command proc, as well as having your global cd reduced. One of the biggest limiting factors for me as a ref paladin is not my mana pool, it’s the globa cd. The reason why ret only has a 5 hit combo is because it’s impossible to seal twist at the 2 hit because of the global cd.
Blizzard: You know what? Let's take the faction with the best racials, and give them another OP racial. That would surely make sense.
Those filthy Allies can have OP Escape Artist Warriors, so everyone can make fun of them.
Every man for himself, wotlk times
escape artist got nerfed too :)
I was done to balance factions, there was much more alliance than horde. It's from one cassicast episodes
@@kryhun7906 Which is shitty design in general. But even shittier given the fact that pvp moved to focus on instanced small teams, so there is no numbers advantage. So you just had horde with better racials because reasons.
**laughs in 25% stun resistance**
...
**chuckles in 15% stun resistance**
...
**cries in lower total stun duration**
gtfo mister i-picked-human-for-EMFH-but-will-never-admit-that-fact.
Seal of Command does scale with spellpower at a 20% scale, sorry this comment is so late xD ''Alexandross'' here from hydraxian waterlords
and it scales at 29% from holy damage increase, So Seal of the crusader gives it a 29% extra dmg increase
@WillE
And also Judgement of command is so weird, And isn't properly treated like a spell, For instance it goes off MELEE crit and not spell crit. Also, 7 PPM is NOT a cap, It's an average so with a 3.5 weapon, Seal of Command has a 46% chance too proc, But a weapon speed of 2.00 would have about a 20% chance to proc PER hit , And this averages at 7 PPM but it is not HARD capped at 7 its just an average. It cud proc 4 times perminute or 14 big dice game.
Even in Classic right now, Some of us Top Paladins, Are using haste as it increases the proc chance of SoC i don't even know if you're going too see this, But please don't throw all this bad information out about my favourite class in the game shooting it into the floor with incorrect facts, Haste WILL benefit us ALOT in TBC.
I could be wrong but I don't think there is a resistance for Holy and I'm pretty sure holy spells can only miss not be resisted. So seeing as seal of blood is an attack application and not an attack itself I'm not sure if it can miss, though again I could be wrong about that.
As a shadowpriest in TBC I would never be put in a group with our ret pala in raids :p
Best race/class combos for TBC next :D?
Orc+everything. Human+everything. seriously it is the meta.
Orcs passive scales with spellpower and attack power (including ranged). Also 5% pet damage is good for BM hunter one shot rotation
Humans rep passive is fucking amazing because alot of tbc early gear is barred behind exalted rep. TBC is basically a rep grind until BT. Now it might not feel that way at first. But when you are grinding to revered and exalted with 7 different factions it saves you days in playtime. Then factor in alts and humans shine.
SoB was scaling so well with haste back then that the spear from SWP trash mobs was actually BiS, even though it had no +Str on it. We got 2 in the first 3 or 4 trash pulls when we started raiding it, I got the 2nd one (we only had 1 hunter at that time), it made me shelf Cataclysm Edge. And my belf ret pally was doing pretty good back then (before the WotLK pre-patch I mean, which made us ridiculously broken), especially with said spear, to the annoyance of my fellow melees.
Late TBC raiding was a blast, one of my fondest memories in WoW (along with hardmode Mimiron in WotLK).
And I agree with other posters: the Blood Knight tabard was reason enough for playing a belf pally over anything Alliance !
Did anyone else forget the racial boons for BEs until you started prepping for AQ 20 and 40 with your Guild mates?
As a 15 year old kid in vanilla I always felt in the back of my mind that blizz devs either at best were incompetent at racial balance or at worst favored horde. Did anyone else feel this way or was it just me being paranoid? Playing classic now, Alliance gets ROFLstomped and it brings back those old curiosities. The go to back then was "alliance is just a bunch of kids" and yes it may have been true at the time, but now I feel that we are a bunch of 30 year old boomers with jobs and families. What are your guys thoughts on this?
What I find really weird about this, you are not the only one that thinks that's the case, is that there is plenty of evidence Blizz develops, and to some extent favors, the alliance. When I say develop I mean literally everything races, cities, stories and zones (look at the barrens ffs lmao). I belive they put more effort in making the alliance part, aaand then they rush the horde shit and have no time to think all their way through.
@Johnny Guillotine interesting. I'm on westfall and it's one of the coolest playerbase I've ever met. Need help with your whirlwind axe quest? Someone will aid you.
Alliance got a way better leveling experience and way nicer cities but for some reason the racial benefits were insanely stronger for horde in both pve and pvp for ages
Games are not fun when balanced, have you ever played chess?
I always felt the Devs favors the Horde, but are not as inspired by their aesthetic. I also aggree that nowadays, the Alliance has a more older and more casual playerbase. Go to any big servers and watch trade chat for 15mins on each faction. It is usually quite different.
@willE Human has Expertise? And because of this, i'm not sure what direction Blizzard should take to alleviate the issue.
1) Do nothing... not ideal
2) Give blood and vengeance to both factions. Well now Human is best DPS, best Raid tank and Blood elf is best dungeon tank because aoe silence is OP and 30 yard mana steal is nice for pulling.
It really is an oversight by you not considering the Human Expertise factor. In TBC, Humans get +5 expertise when wearing Maces or Swords. The effect of which cannot be overstated, the stat is easily the most powerful in all of the expansion. Reducing the chance that the boss parries AND dodges by 0.25% per point for a total of 1.25% per. For a DPS attacking from behind, this alters 1.25% of all dodges to regular hits instead. Mind you there is no way to reduce glancing blow chance, or the effect of glancing blows in TBC.
Further more, for a tank. Expertise is a mitigation stat, as every time the boss parries on of your attacks. The boss gains up to 40% haste for the next attack. Not that big for dungeons, certainly not enough to bump Humans over Blood elves in overall performance. But on raid bosses, parry-haste (as the mechanic is known as) can destroy a very quickly. Prince Malchezaar is notorious for near instantly killing tanks due to the parry-haste mechanic in the second phase where he dual wields his axes, and use the thrash ability which causes him to deal 2 additional hits on his next hit. One strategy to avoid this, is to simply have every DPS do very low damage during phase 1, so that the tank can stop attacking during phase 2, as parry-haste can not occur if the tank does not get parried.
If alliance gets blood - it would be nothing really. Since Belfs still the best for pvp, have orcs as the best dps hunters and warlocks. Have trolls as the best casters, taurens as the best druid tanks and so on and so on. Even with seal change horde will dominate pretty much every server. I can't see giving both seals to both factions being the bad thing in any case really.
Judgement of Blood - Melee Hit; Judgement of Commant - Spell hit. -its a huge difference for melee you know.
I forgot arcane torrent used to be a silence, I've just gotten so used to it being an offensive dispel.
shocking too considering how huge the silence was for so long
The one thing that makes me hope they start from a fresh server on TBC.. so I'm not so far behind with my horde paladin, after playing alliance in classic.
no you level it in the pre patch, then youre one of the few paladins on horde side
they should just cap the amount of gold you can carry over but allow characters to carry over
I am excited for TBC and moreso for Wrath but it feels like it's going to be sooo long from now.
oh good .. wrath... from here on shiit went south....
Wrath ?.. you mean LFG, pull 20 mobs and still have 99%mana and hp ? Just go back to BFA it's the same
If you want to tank Human is the way. Free expertise and Seal of Vengeance is the superior tanking seal. Also SoB doesn't scale with spell power. At least it didn't in TBC.
It’s not a coincidence that paladins started to become viable when it came to dps after the horde got them. What’s worse is that they made it so horde paladins were better. I actually remember reading that 90% of the vanilla devs were horde which is why they had superior pvp racials and why belf paladins got a better seal.
Um i sweated in BC as pallys, if you where BE ret pally, you would use seal of command with a slow 2h, if you ever had a slow 2h weapon you used command over blood, but as BE you chased fast 2h weapons because of Blood, and as an ally ret pally you chased the slowest 2h weapons you could get your hands on for seal of command, and haste effected you really well as an ally ret pally because of this.
What made BE pallies better than alliance pallies is seal of blood, which used to damage you as you DPSed, making healers heal you a little bit, making you regenerate mana through spiritual attunement. Again, Blizzard subtly stating their disdain for alliance back in the day.
Still going to go Dranei for my TBC ret paladin because I just hate how blood elves look.
Belf paladin is just a joke. Really stupid idea from Blizzard in TBC.
You like a purple alien-goat better than a smoking hot blonde? Ok buddy...
@@brunharigsjukskoterska2559 yep! Blue skin is sexier than blonde hair any day. Digitigrade legs? Unf.
At least youll be liked for the hit rating. Thats always nice
YES.
Liked and subscribed !!!
Humans get 10% increased reputation, that is a huge thing in TBC :)
Anyone in the know want to comment on how gnome warriors compare to orc warriors for arenas? This is really my only interest for tbc. I know escape artist is nerfed and orc stun resist too, however, its indirectly buffed for warriora due to moving toughness from prot to arms tree. But I could still see escape artist being better since there will be lots of druids? lmk what u think
This is where everyone switched to the Horde. Blizzard don’t make the same mistake twice. You’re jobs depends on it.
I have a question about Crusader strike,it says it refresh all the seals on the target,so if u play ally,can u get 5stacks of SoV and swap to SoR,does crusader strike refresh that 5stacks from SoV???
Dranei shaman: at best equal in some specs
Blood elf paladin: ahahahaahahaha
Avengers Shield was a CAST?! AAAAAAAAAAA mind-blown.
Jup. It was bloddy annoying
Yea mostly used to pull with.
I know. The day they made it instant-cast was one of the best days ever for my prot pally. And it just kept getting better with each expansion.
This was the time when every class had clearly defined abilities, instead of giving everyone a generic ranged pull
@@Quplas you are partially right, in that class abilities were more defined. However, in Vanilla WoW, Paladins were literally the *only* class that did *NOT* have a way to pull from range (except for specific abilities you had to spec into).
Except arcane torrent changed later and now dispells buffs rather than silences, and if they go with the retail vs for balance vs classic you will end up with then both being more equal
SoB was also a cc breaker. Polymorph for example
Hey can you do some class videos for all TBC classes. I see people levelling alts now that if they can only take 1 hero over to tbc and I can’t find any good breakdowns on classes with playstyle, dps ranking etc
Didn't haste basically not exist until Sunwell?
Glad you made this.
Has anyone on private TBC realms explored the "spelladin" build?
@ll Not shockadin, you stack spelldamage and go with Manual Crowd Pummeler from Gnomergan and use weapon oils and other effects that triggers with chance on hit effects. check Judgementret com
I just think blizzard should change that, either give Seal of Blood to alliance or make Seal of Vengeance scaling with weapon and haste.
Also, the 7 per minute proc thing is idiot, why should this exist?
It will just make the game better.
just waiting for one of these videos to announce tbc classic I'd be more hyped for that then SHADOWLANDS. If I had to choose shadowlands or TBC classic it would be TBC hands down of course I will play shadowlands as I gotta scratch that itch but retail only gets me hooked for a month or 2 b4 I get bored. Only legion got me interested BFA was really boring
Agreed on all points. Can't wait for Blood Knights to be a thing. :D
smells like bullshit
@WillE can u make video about arena team compositions 2v2 3v3 etc. ? i mean what was top and prob will be in tbc classic
The real question is why men prefer to play play female blood elf instead of male blood elf
Cuz sexier
The 70% weapon damage proc from seal of command does not dictate that you want a slow weapon. That is a common but completely nonsensical mis-explanation. What it means is that, rather logically, you want the weapon with the highest damage range. Usually slower weapons have a higher damage range, but that is not the same thing - a faster weapon with higher damage range is better than a slower weapon with lower damage range.
why are they that good? horde bias :v xDDD
nice video WillE! love ya ♥
They have silence from recial, dwarfs have stoneform ( poisons & bleeds ) that’s far more better then Blood elf for surviving, silence is for a breed moment inside in arenas,but dwarf man...
dwarf is kind of rogue counter
Ton of misinformation in this video... I don't know shit about tbc tbh, even tho i played ret in tbc, but in CLASSIC spell power DOES boost SoC and haste is GOOD. 7PPM is a tool to calculate proc chance around weapon speed, it is not a guarantee for 7 procs a minute, nor a cap. You can still get really lucky and have soc procs all the way through the fight, or u may get none, even tho it is highly unlikely either way. With any weapon at slower than 3.7 speed, you have pretty close to 50% proc chance.
Yes, proc is 44% for 3,8 speed, 43 for 3,7, 42 for 3,5 and so on. Moreover, SoC DOES SCALE with haste (otherwise haste decreasing effects would change % chance of command; like with divine shield it would be 80% or something :D).
Yeah true. False information and bad video over all.
Did the Vengeance stacks refresh on melee hits like most applied seals do? Otherwise it really would be terrible.
Im playing human paladin atm but will defentaly reroll a blood elf when TBC. Hopefully i can just transfer and "race change" even tho race change was not in TBC, atleast not in the begning.
But changing server wasnt a part of vanilla until very late but it is now. so hopefully blizzard will help us out for once. I will pay blizz, i will pay!!!
WillE, how do you show (in classic) health/mana pool numbers on your nameplate?
How come did you didn mention libram switching?
because he is not a private server player or a neckbeard he just googles some obvious thing and done he even forgot to mention that the biggest change in tbc is leatherworking cuz u get drums and if u have 4 people with leatherworking in every raidgroup u have a 100% uptime on drums thats why tbc bosses only last seconds barely some minutes
Start with judgement of crusader one, switch to crusader strike, switch to judgement of command and repeat. Sounds too much min maxing considering that 25man raid needs only one ret but whatever.
@@janl5879 If you watched his tbc video, he mentions drums.
the difference between paladins in TBC & Wrath is insane
I vividly remember starting to level my paladin before the Wrath pre-patch hit. I honestly had no idea what was coming. Logged back into Dustwallow marsh and proceeded to destroy everything and everyone. It was just ridiculous. Run up to someone. Stun + Judgement for a +50% crit chance judgement that takes out more than half of their health. It was just bizzare
@@Davisrullzs Yea i remember that day too man,before the patch came out i was struggling to kill 2 or 3 mobs at once on Sunwell isle,then the patch rolls and i was killing like 10 mobs at a time with 80 % hp left and then i wondered how about some ganking,then i went and 1vs3 people all over the island,it was broken but fun while it lasted. The only class that was able to counter me was other ret pallys,that day was also known as revenge of the ret pallies. All that frustatrion that was acumulated in 2 expansions was finally unleashed in a single day and every other class felt it and still remembers it to this day...
Pretty sure windfury totem was also better with seal of blood because it wasn't proc per minute.
Horde racials were massively buffed to get people to play horde. There won't be any alliance if racials aren't changed. #nochanges means a lot of changes since the players have changed.
#Belf Paladin since 2007 when I saw blood elf annonced. And going back to it the day they announce TBC.
Quick question what is better on MoP seal of truth or seal of justice?
I actually cried laughing when you mentioned fury warriors, totally forgot they existed in TBC, just thinking about that there will be fury warriors with glaives makes me laugh
Actually, as a rogue myself. I fear those on the damage meter.
Tbf I would prioritize a rogue over a warrior for the glaives since rogues have sword spec and need swords to be good while fury warriors can make use of the drakefist hammers.
Dwarf paladins are the only ones that can reliably solo tank Nalorakk (and thus solotank entire ZA), because they can cancel the bleed 2 times (racial + bubble). Being able to take another DPS in a time run is a huge deal and makes dwarves the best prot pally in TBC, as every other racial factor is irrelevant in pve.
Or just go War/Feral then u have AP shout and 5% melee crit
@@hacklbarry5365 You'll have a fury warrior anyways, so a prot warrior won't add any noticeable dps support. Prot pala +2 furys + bm + enhancer is probably the highest dps cleave group you can build for a ZA run.
The question I have is, how good is the class in dps?speaking clearly in Raid
Mediocre for the first half of TBC. You can hard scale and outperform most players by the end of BT going into Sunwell with BiS items as blood elf retribution if you can seal twist. It will arguably be MUCH easier with today latency. You only want ONE ret paladin in your raid for the mana regen judgement for your warlocks ( they are top dps at that point ). You can beat glaives rogues and warriors can't touch you ( but warrior dps is a joke for TBC ). I would strongly advice you to build a protection set on the side as well. For some fights it's better to have you aoe tanking than doing dps ( especially Felmyst ). Source : Played horde retribution back in the days. Had a few top 10 world parse. You WILL need full consumables and a drum group. You need leatherworking and drums. They are not optional. You can expect 2.4-2.8k dps on stuff like Brutallus, the Twins, etc. Ret is the best tank for KJ as well because of Judgement of light ludicrous threat.
But honestly... good luck. You'll need it and proving yourself as a skilled ret to any guild worth the time is gonna take work.
@@Furyel2 Thank you very much bro for taking the time and giving that advice, I am not sure what class I want to play on TBC since right now I am with a war fury and I wanted to change horizons
Dont believe that, the answere is bullshit. Every Hybrid loses against DPS classes. All of them(Mage is a bit weak) do 3k+ DPS in Sunwell. Especially Hunter and WL can do 3.5k. U wont even get close to that with a Hybrid. Pala will do about 2.5k DPS. The truth is u only use Hybrids for heal, buffs and/or tanking.
I have one on allliance side on netherwing, the best tbc private server around nowadays. Then i played on a friends account pn horde. The game play didnt change much. The dps difference in t5 and t6 wasnt neglectable but not game breaking either.
On retail I mained a horde paladin from 2.3 to 3.3.5 and I dont remember people crying about SoB as much, just ackowledging the imbalance but moving on.
When classic tbc comes out, dont fall for the horde is better meme. Just play whatever you want and focus on fun and playing with friends.
one thing he missed is that due to the strength of prot pally on allaince, it is almost neccessary for at least one ret pally in the raid. Having a ret while a prot pally is tanking means that the Prot pally does 10% more holy damage and the ret can CS to refresh seals on the boss making the prot pally pull even further ahead of warriors and druids on threat. In speed runs the name of the game is maximizing threat over survivability for speed clears.
A human Ret Paladin in tbc with a Draenei in group will shit over horde pallys without even trying!
hit and expertise > SoB. You have to take into account averything, not just the seals and a minor mana regen racial.Which in that case, SoV scales better on long fights than SoB (aka Boss fights) .
Switched factions because of Arcane torrent back in the day. Worth it.
When wrath was new, my blood elf paladin was the great equalizer to all asshole death knights hyped up on their ego.
Do you guys remember when B.C. talents were released 2 weeks before B.C. was officially released and Ret Paly and Arcane Mage were the most O.P. characters by far! One shots everywhere. Every single 2v2 team was double Ret and they would just run in both Bubble, Wings, and kill you. (This was before bubble reduced damage) and in battleground it was all arcane mages one shooting people.
You didn't get wings at 60.
you're thinking of pre patch to wrath not BC. I remember it was completely broken for ret and arcane mages. Arcane just spammed arcane barrage.
@@TheDisasterr yep your right, its been awhile.
So I looked it up here... wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Spell_power_coefficient?oldid=1492745 (the july 4th 2008 back version of the page)
Seal of Command does have a spell power coefficient of 20% like in vanilla according to this list. (and a holy damage coefficient of 29%, but it's not on the list... I think that's correct but not 100% sure)
SoB is still better probably (the opinion is so ubiquitous that I'm taking their word for it lol) but just correcting the thing about SoC not scaling with non holy damage.
That is my biggest concern surrounding TBC, faction balance is tipped toward Horde even on Classic and when Horde get even more benefits in TBC I fear that Alliance will be in such a disadvantage that it would discourage people from playing it. I mean why would you want to play on the side where theres less people to group up with and they even have weaker racials. The only advantage Alliance has right now is the instant BG que. But not everyone likes PvP and to this day, I regret rolling Alliance on classic PvP server, where the Horde is the dominant faction, because you just get ganked all the time.
This is why i think in the case of TBC they should make some changes in racials and the Alliance paladin Seals, i think faction balance is more important than keep these things exactly like was back then.
Its a tough one because this is 100% going to be the biggest concern. On private servers they give alliance paladins SoB to make sure people dont cause an imbalance but the 'no changes' brigade will riot at blizz if they done the same
Faction-based loggin queues=problem solved. If the server population cap is 300 (only for example) then 150 can be horde and 150 can be alliance. If you want to be on the dominant faction you gotta wait to play. Populations will fix itself as people move to lower pop servers.
What's true is that back then they rly wanted players to go for horde, because they were less. But now.. Well.. It's better for the horde with more players with the horde already.
Although in classic open world pvp is only ganking. The person that attacks first, kills. Almost every time. As hunter you have no possibility to escape from rogues or warriors. I switched to a pve realm once I realized that it is no use, even though I was on a pvp realm my whole retail life.
I am still a little confused based on the video. If I wanna play prot pally which race should I go with? I admit the AOE silence sounds really good
Play Forsaken
Gentleman Nemesis basically alliance paladin is the better tank.
But blood elf is just the best race in the game.
@@Shovelchicken Why is Ally better? The Dot generates more threat?
@@mysterymastermind175 Also because dwarf has some good dmg mitigation. Paladin doesn't get many dmg reduction abilities, they rely alot on the passive that gives them dmg reduction below a certain HP threshold.
@@lockofmetal8894 are you referring to stoneskin
I just realize that Arcan Torent doesn't silence anymore. Suck !
Remove 1 beneficial effect from all enemies within 8 yards and restore 3% of your Mana. - Wowhead