Kate Sage the word “Sorry” is meaningless unless they change their behavior. It never happens. I tell everyone this. Might as well say the word balloon as much as it means anything
Yeah people suck just know that they project onto us lies that are deep within them and have nothing to do with us I’m learning to not take on other peoples problems anymore! I’m not feeling sorry for anybody ever again
@@elenamorales812 no I've cut her out of my life and feel so much better since. I unfriended her on Facebook but didn't block. She was particularly nasty to me and never apologised or took accountability for her actions.
@@sarahbroussard7489 oh I know about that! My mother was hitting me in the car when I was a small child. The door opens as the grocer put our purchases in and my mother smiles sweetly at me and says "ok pet". So confusing for a child.
I'm so sorry, that can make things even more painful :( you'll be able to get out, I grew up in a toxic family and I've been no-contact for about 5 years, even when I was a kid I knew it wasn't right and kind of 'foreshadowed' going no contact to myself. Hang in there, you're valid, you matter, you deserve better!
In my experience the moment my sister or one of my sisters comes to visit then I am absolutely nothing. I live in the same city as my mom. When they leave then I am good enough again.
i think we all have a more professional tone of voice on thee phone with a business.. (maybe we don't.. or maybe it's because of narcs) but my mom gets all sing songy, nice voice... and it seems so fake. wtf. american /consumer culture is fake AF
I made the terrible mistake of being kind and forgiving towards narcissists over and over again despite their cruelty to me. I even thought if I killed them with kindness that it would make a positive difference with them, which it didn’t. They instead took advantage of my kindness and saw it as an opportunity to have unchecked abuse thrown at me. No more. It wasn’t healthy for me and I had to put a stop to it before I lost my sanity.
part of the reason i am a Recovering Catholic is that my boundaries/tolerance is not patient with emotional vampires. My abruptness often gets interpreted as rudeness - so be it cuz i do not put on a nice/deferring front.
@@annfeeney1662 Good luck with that when it comes to a narcissist.. Kindness will just get you stepped all over more, that's who they prey on.. Obviously be courteous and have manners, but don't go out of your way for them.. they will abuse no matter what you do, if you're their target..
I'm sooo sick of being a "teacher".. exhausting.!! And, im done caring if everyone else "gets along". Thank u!! "Fixers" tend to carry a lot of guilt and responsibility that isn't theirs to carry. I am slowly realizing this!!
That really felt validating just hearing that too. I've said it in the past myself - I'm tired of having to tell a grown person that their words hurt others.
When I was younger I was always trying to "fix" rifts in the family. Now I realize that isn't my responsibility, and I actually didn't consider whether the people even wanted to 'make nice." Extracting myself from the 'peacemaker' role sometimes makes me feel panicked and 'mean' but I ride the feelings out and they dissipate, thank heavens, before I pick up a phone to butt my nose in the middle. I remember how awful it felt when another younger relative did something similar to me, trying to make me and a sister "make up" when I had been on the receiving end of terrific abuse and have never wanted to see or hear from her again. It's weird that I and others actually tried to fix things we knew NOTHING about.
I empathize with u all! Sad part is how we stunt our own growth while worrying about others who ,sometimes it takes 40 yrs, to realize, they aren't going to grow, or "change", and now we have to catch up and pay for time we can't get back. But we can start to slowly take control back!
Fixer is an interesting role... If the narc fixer is enamored with a nominal measure of authority, they’ll quickly find underhanded ways to be breaker.. then swoop in as fixer, in their mind rescuer of everything.. an insidious toxic scheme to callously gratify themselves at own whim and leisure.
Years ago I was stalked and bullied by a narc colleague. Whenever I complaint to my boss, she just reminded me to be kind and understanding. It ended up with me leaving the department. At that time I realized that enablers are as worse as the bullies.
That sounds a really horrible experience. In my experience many people who say things like that to us, when the situation is as bad as the one you describe, are narcissists themselves. The complete lack of empathy there is severe.
Definitely. They make you out like the cynical bad guy for not being “kinder” and less judgemental. We feel worse coming out of conversations with a “kindness cult” enabler.
My ex fiancee has the enabler mom from hell. She enabled his narc dad, and now she enables him. It's sick. She's completely immature, a covert narc herself, and a "kindness cult" enabler. She's big on "forgiveness" too.
I feel like those people are the biggest cowards. They'd rather throw you under the bus than feel the discomfort from the narcissist. They even sacrifice their own child and have the excuse that what they did was "kind" and not stirring the pot.
So sorry for what you went through man…it’s so frustrating when the enabler even ends up getting mad at you, and tell you you’re not different from the narc (because the narc has made a smear campaign for years and years). I stopped “defending” myself. Just realized that those people will never seek help nor they will change. When I tried to get help, they trashed me for months. Man…I agree. The enablers are as bad!
I like what Narc Survivor said too. “They train you into displaying false kindness and respect toward them.” My face would often hurt after hanging out with my narcissistic friend; I spent a lot of the time with a fake smile. As a secondary source of supply (friends), I often suspected the kindness towards me was shallow and conditional... the kindness was extended to me as long as I kept smiling. Of course, my kindness was shallow too which made me despise myself. Tricky, tricky narcs...
I knew better than to openly reveal myself to the narc. I knew how she was from the start. I kept myself to myself, which was easy to do, because she only wanted it to be about her anyway. I also did not ever let on that i knew she was a narc. I limited my exposure on all fronts, & would usually only go out dancing with her as my gal pal, somewhere without much talking! Even tho' it has been over for a year or more, i still have zero desire to even cross paths with her on fb. Narcs can be very retributive, so best to let them go, even if owing you an apology, a chance to speak your peace, or having borrowed loads of money, or whatever. Just stay away from 'em.
@@terrylemal5163 I actually looked it up: Are there really soulless people? after i finally let go of my game face, & she walked away, knowing i could see her clearly.
I think the key is to stop the Invalidation cycle, else it never end. The person receiving the invalidation must stop returning the invalidation although it is human nature to give tit for tat. Everyone has the responsibility to stop the Invalidation cycle to make this world a better one.
Yep I wrote that down too ...!!! Everybody fucksup.....and others are repeat offenders who ENJOY hurting people ....to avoid their own inner hurt...and then ENJOY fuckingu up with fake apologies!!!
My isolation made me lonely but I feel safer. Its so hard to find a therapist that knows or even acknowledged this fact that toxic people are poisonous by nature and won't change.
I think the rule of kindness towards everyone is why so many struggle to set boundaries. Normal people might respect careful kind attempts at them, but to be able to deal with difficult people you need to be willing to be less nice. Not aggressive, but very firm and as you say, step away. Toxic people also tend to communicate that setting any kinds of boundaries is awfully mean. No, most people are perfectly able to set boundaries and still respect a person. On a meta level, It's actually very nice when you are trying to avoid enabling bad behavior!
You put it so well. This is the time to become compassionate assertive, it truly is. We have to look closely and listen deeply and call out bad behaviours without demonizing people. Kindness can sometimes be very cruel and lead to devastation.
yes I think so-- it creates a better overall atmosphere when there is N in the group... I think especially in a work context it can create more trouble for everyone involved if the boundary setting and disengagement isn't enacted pretty consisently.
@@essencetune7341 I think you're right. It's taboo to get angry and raise your voice if you belong to a subordinate group. When abused power is questioned you're shaking it's ground. What if we all are human? Nothing more, nothing less. Then what?
Narcissists make me think I'm the narcissist, when I'm the one getting verbally, emotionally and lately physically abused by total strangers living in a homeless shelter. There are creepy men and women that get hostile when you don't interact with them. I really don't feel like being kind since I haven't known kindness much of my life, and only want to be kind to kind people, which is sometimes hard to do when I'm constantly being triggered. Thank you for all of your wonderful advice.
I completely agree. I cringe when people say “we should all just be nice”. It gives a big pass to abusers and teaches people their feelings are invalid.
FINALLY...a mental health professional who can explain some of this toxic, mean, and ridiculous behavior and encourage us to not put up with it! I have a friend who is constantly stating "let's be more kind" or "send them love" while the other person keeps on doing the same thing! I have chosen to disengage and limit my time with these people...so I am fine...but thank you SO much for doing this video and for the work you are doing!
Yes you got that I've been shaking inside for the last 5 yrs or I am gaslighted by the flying monkeys in public while he arrogantly sits back knowing I've done nothing wrong yet hes made me a target fro. His lies and half truths
I struggle so much with this. I would protest someone’s wrongdoings and then beat myself up thinking I have been unkind to them. But maybe offering the other cheek after getting slapped on one is not a realistic solution: especially on the long term. If not for myself, I need to speak up for countless others like me who are getting berated and abused for no fault of their own. Just because of the inherent crassness of someone toxic. Thanks for sharing this!
Well, the turn the other cheek saying just means to not insult them back, and walk away. It doesn't mean to offer yourself up to be hurt some more. That said, I do appreciate your comment. It's always good to respectfully correct someone when they are being rude or disrespectful in some way. I've done this with two co-workers of mine who thought it was ok to talk crazy to me. I just stated how it's not ok to talk to me that way, and how I would appreciate it if they would treat me with the same respect that I treat them with. Granted, I was angry when I said it and it could be heard in my tone, but I maintained respect for them nevertheless. After that, they've been very respectful.
Turn the other cheek? All you get is another sore cheek and more abuse. And the Narcissist gets away with it ....again....The Narcissist doesn't mind making everyone uncomfortable. They do it deliberately. They enjoy it. Consequences are called for. How about this...IF IT IS SAFE...call them out. ie. Family dinner with Narcissist Uncle Dave..who deliberately insults you in front of everyone thinking you won't want to make a scene & will blow it off.... Reply - "That remark was incredibly rude & insulting. You have embarrassed me. I would appreciate an apology". If Uncle Dave is upset, too bad. If he leaves, goodbye. If others are uncomfortable, THEY were not insulted. You deserve respect. I have done this. Most will respect you for it. They are sick of Uncle Dave too !
Wow I just had an explosive moment with a family member who regularly denies all of her toxic behavior because she’s “polite.” Then comes the gaslighting - “you’re really overreacting, I don’t know what you’re talking about. I didn’t do anything.” And the toxicity never stops. No matter if I’m kind, or frustrated in how I call it out - it’s repeatedly dismissed. It is maddening, so maddening. This video was perfect timing for me! Thank you
I found it more effective to just give them the absolute "WTF" face without saying anything whenever you heard them saying something toxic/trying to talk shit about you - and then walk away with the expression of "I am not dealing with your bullshit today". That usually take the wind out of their sail, for some reason.
@@bloodmajesty414 ive told him before, "you can be kind and sound kind but say the right words to hurt someone...no matter how kind you sound or how gentle you seem..." of course, did he acknowledge it??????? NOPE continues to gaslight n play innocent
The wicked are estranged from the womb; They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies (corrupt genetics). Their poison is like the poison of a serpent; (serpent genetics Genesis 3:15) They are like the deaf cobra that stops its ear, Which will not heed the voice of charmers, (truth tellers, common sense, logic, reason) Charming ever so skillfully. Psalm 58:3-5
I stopped pleasing people and almost all my friends and family hates me the very moment I stopped it...I still have 3 kind people in my life..feeling thankful for them
Yeah, I thought maybe I was going to get a "prize' at the end. I'm exaggerating but I was so convinced that my kindness would be rewarded some how. I'm still working on the difference between being authentic and being kind because of conditioning.
@@jean6453 we don't know other than to be kind, their drive is to make us nasty too! See ya never, no problems because we've no contact! My older overt bro's quite the married player, I never speak to him about it, 😝, then there I am trying to set him straight that actually no, neither I nor my husband, two times the other (together 33 yrs), what a demeaning thing to have to handle!
They being kind is such a cinema. That is a mask that doesn't last long.They act kind to match your taste,sync with your thoughts, connect with your feelings.once that's done,you will see the most unkind animal.
Agreed. I had a narc boss once; our small team ended up calling her out on her BS and she didn't take too kindly to it. But because it was five against one, she lost some power in the situation and we all spoke with the head of HR thinking that THIS would be the way to enforce change. I remember vividly when HR said "she's just adjusting to being a manager", "let's just all be nice". It felt really invalidating. It was even recommended that we went on an outing to "bond" together with our narc boss. We blindly took the suggestion and our boss feigned kindness and told everyone to "give me grace", "I haven't been doing this for long" and all that. Fast forward two weeks later, she proceeded to do the same sh*tty things she always did all while denying that she said or did those things. We all ended up leaving the job within a month of each other -- some of us quitting without saying anything in advance because of sheer disgust with the toxicity of the company. We all cited the reason why we were leaving pointing to our narcissistic boss. She still remains at the company and was promoted to Senior Manager.
@@chrisjuu18 isn't it sad and pathetic that these narcs get away with their nonsense. I am sure that company lost many a good employee because of one nut job. These companies think the narcs are going to get rid of the dead weight and instead they lose good people.
yes, you are so right. sadly. And we think they're just really compassionate people, to find, in the next moment they're using this as a strategy to make us open up to do damage even better (and use anything and everything we've opened up about against us). :'(
Yes, my own possitivity and kindness kept me like a hostage in a narcissist´s life for a year. And then I had enough and left, no matter what all spiritual teachers say :P Now I set boundaries - respectfully - in the beginning and don´t play any games anymore just to please some egos!
Hey, im a narcissist. I only recently realized how habitual anf harmful my behavior has been. I always felt like a victim but I have been hurting others. Im trying to be more mindful of showing gratitude and meditating about feeling gratitude. This has helped me to be more empathetic and enotionally available for others. I find I am able to be genuinely happy to listen to other people and really engage with them in an authentic way. I am also learning to grieve. Whenever I feel like im being ignored or victimized, ai just take some time to grieve the feeling or the thoughts. Once ive done that, I tend to see my friends and loved ones more clearly. I am able to transition into remembering their love and consistency. My personal form of narcissism is rooted in a fear of rejection and abandonment. But when im honest, without all the bullshit, im able to really connect with others in a real way. These videos have helped me so much. Now i am trying to deal with the hurt ive caused. I cant fix some of the relationships i have ruined, and grieving their loss is gonna take a while, but its not all bad because the pain is a reminder to stay engaged and sensitive.
Quotes from a narcissist: “I’m sorry you’re offended”, I’m sorry you feel that way”, “I’m just stating facts”, “I’m sorry that you’re hurt by that, but you’re responsible for your own feelings”, “I’m not responsible for how you feel”, “are you owning your part in this?”, “I’m just speaking truths”, “I never had any intentions of hurting you with what I said”, “I wasn’t seeking to hurt you with what I said”. And the biggest kicker is what they said to you is usually always a very contemptuous comment, attacking some quality about you and is demeaning to you over them. Dealing with the runaround of accountability from a narc is absolutely exhausting! All they have to do is say they are sorry for hurting you, just a tiny bit of humility that they made a mistake! They act like dying is better than admitting they hurt you with something they said or did. I will never understand it.
Though they do say those things; I say a few of them, too. The difference is that I apologize and empathize. Also, my ex got those phrases from me when I'd share things I'd learned in therapy. They were just justifications to him. It's all about intent.
Spot on. Or "I'm SORRY for EVERYTHING", and, my favorite, "If I wanted to hurt you, I would have done it easily" (translation: so don't even hold me accountable for what I did)
@@agnieszkaponka2305 Yep! Had that said to me too, and convo usually went like: Narc: “I’m sorry for everything yesterday”. Me: “When you called me a wench, that really hurt, don’t call me names”. Narc: “Stop attacking me!” Me: “I’m expressing my feelings and telling you I don’t want you to call me names, I didn’t say anything mean or demeaning”. Narc: “What you’re saying is attacking my character and it isn’t okay! Don’t attack me!”.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani! You’re my favorite TH-cam therapist! I can’t tell you how much you help me every time I listen to you. I have been an enabler my entire life. I’ve come a very long way the past 5 years, thanks to people like you who open my mind to reality.
OMG! I've been told so many times that I"M THE RUDE ONE for pointing out when someone is being rude, or what they are doing is unacceptable. The culture in this community is to just purse your lips and not say a word. And people consider it aggressive to point out to someone when they are doing something wrong, even if everyone in the rooms sees that it's wrong. I've been a square peg in a round hole in this community for so long and it's really been a struggle not to gas light myself that my behavior is the problem.
you're actually stronger than they are. some people are just like that. most people are mentally too weak to maintain their mental strength through a lot of struggles or restrictions. but you have to give yourself time and space to heal and refine healthy ways to express boundaries. remember, you got to be alone with yourself who is a person who you can be proud of and has courage and know yourself and your reality. that is a huge gift. :)
It is easy to feel guilty for standing up for yourself, someone you love, or what is right, because it might sound unkind, but to overlook the truth and give in to fake or forced kindness doesn't shed any light... It only enables the narcissist and turns everyone else into flying monkeys. I really needed to hear this today, and am so thankful.
In tears I realized, its okay to be kind but its not okay to be naive. Especially when I have a family to care for I must be wise and kind using it properly at the right times. Just because you're nice to a tiger doesn't mean it won't eat you! You're just a friendly appetizer!
Where did this idea of " be nice" come from? Why are we not taught to be assertive and set boundaries ? I know so many people who don't have the practiced skills of verbal self defense, or how to even tell someone to stop doing or saying something out of bounds. Perhaps we could have a video that models appropriate responses to aggressive or passive aggressive situations that we all come across in our lives.
Jean, Speaking for myself, My parents wanted "nice" children. What parent doesn't want compliance in their kids? I think that's where it starts. I was conditioned to always be helpful to my mother, considerate of others (without expecting consideration in return), to not defend myself if someone was rude: Two rules from my mother "Just consider the source." From my father, "Don't say anything, just let it roll off your back like water off of a duck." I'm sure the parents didn't realize all the problems their conditioning would cause me in adulthood !
@@notagain779 Yes, so true ! And it continues in preschool, kindergarten, and all through schooling. We are even conditioned in public by seeing other people's inability to model appropriate boundaries ! Yikes ! I have a lot of relearning to do !
In the US anyway, it’s just another tactic to keep racist white people in power. Be nice, you imagined that, those Evangelicals don’t hate you, the cops are just scared good guys. It’s all designed to keep good people silent.
Thank you once again for validating and clarifying this dynamic. I find those kindness people not only our enabler‘s, but this is learned behavior often in a home that felt not safe. The individual learns to cope by not making waves and protecting the abuser. Unfortunately, in adulthood it just perpetuates another abusive dynamic.
Another great video. This has been my entire life. Everyone else gets a free ticket for "awe, that is just the way she is", but when then I get criticism for a hick-up, 5 minutes late, being sensitive, expressing my needs, or for making a mistake. I never get credit for putting up with all these goofy people. Thank you;-)
And they'll tell everyone behind your back how reliant you are on them and how much they have to do for you. Plus, they'll tally it all up and you'll owe them, and they'll let you know it. They'll smear you and they'll try to destroy you if you let them do anything for you. I learned this from a very early age. I saw what they did, and i always said, "no thank you." They'll push doing for you, but i always said, no. Just one tiny thing, and they've git you. And you'll never be free from it.
IKR, It pisses me off how the X would alwAys blame/shame me and take all the credit for Everything. He was constantly Over entitled and Self Serving appearing as a generous do gooder.
@@deltaradiance9034 you've got this exactly right. They love seeing someone affected negatively by them. Any spark of them being a thought in another person gives their ego a power trip. It makes them feel alive. Social vampires! Helen, and all of us, are survivors. And the guilt, shame, fear, withholding not feeling good enough,, or effects harming us physically or mind-wise is a life-source to them, because they are desperate to be in control over others, knowing how weak and fearful they themselves truly are.
Thank you, Doctor Ramani! Prescient as usual... I find it strange that those who advocate "kindness" to/for the narcissist very rarely if ever get behind kindness to/for the victims of their abuse.
Thank you so much for this! I've noticed on social media how narcissists are bullying others, yet when I call them out I'm the bad guy for calling it out. It's exactly what you say, the kindness cult wants to forgive and forget and give the bully "grace." It's sickening and only validates the narc behavior.
Yes, I was often told I was unkind if I called out my mom’s manipulative behavior, and if I called out my dad’s and ex’s emotionally abusive behavior. My mom’s feelings would be hurt and my dad and ex would suddenly be cordial and I was the abusive one, with no grace, attacking them by asking them to stop or questioning them. It happened a lot at work often also. Me, the ultimate people pleaser, was often portrayed as not a team player when I finally would speak up.
Ever since I was a little girl, I always thought about what I said so I wouldn’t hurt anybody especially my parents. However, the people I was so careful with didn’t mind hurting me. I’m in my fifties now and I finally lost my patience two years ago and let them have it. It was probably not the best thing to do! They really couldn’t handle it and have cut me out. I guess I was that important to them in the first place.
You've gone cold turkey, and whilst this is all painful, it has shown you all at once rather than dragging the issue over time. I wish you lots of healing and self expression and joy in your life. 💐
This one hits home big time. Thank you for your insight. I’m going to listen to this repeatedly. It’s extremely hard to silence the enablers who try to tell you that you weren’t nice for not accepting cruel behaviour... obviously that isn’t what they meant. Healthy relationships, in my opinion, are extremely rare. Very few people I’ve met, including my accidental family and those I initially chose to be in my life are willing to be vulnerable, self reflective and grow. When you do finally find it, there’s no turning back. For me, it came at a huge cost - family members including adult children don’t like your strength and find other people in their bigger lives that will give them what they want.
That's a pretty dumb thing to say... My dad rarely visited his mom, he said he didn't feel good doing so, she undoubtedly gave him a tongue lash for past behaviours and now an adult myself not wanting to hear mom's cruelties/having cut her off myself I'm understand!
LH You are the first person in all of these videos that I have seen make any kind of comment about adult children. I’m dealing with a situation right now where my daughter-in-law is so toxic that she has completely turned all of my children and their significant others against me to the point where no one will even listen to my side of anything. Everyone just believes the lies that she spouts and they shut me down immediately if I try to talk about the issue or my feelings. The problem is, if I’m not nice to her, I not only lose my son that’s married to her, but the other kids who now view me as she does. If I am not nice to her, I’m playing right into her hands and proving that I AM the mean person she says I am. I feel like a complete hostage if I want my children! I am so sickened by this and I have no idea how to handle it. I’ve been given ultimatums by everyone that I can’t bring up any “drama” or “negativity”, or they will not msg me back, etc. No one will talk to me on the phone or come over. I have no way to EVER speak my truth or vent my frustrations to any of them. I’ve never felt anything this painful in my entire life. Have you dealt with anything similar? I want my children in my life more than anything...but at what price?? Thank you for your comment! 💜
@@laurenv2003 It all boils down to who you love the most: your son, kids, etc or the Truth. If you choose the former, you are selling your soul for idolatry. That's what Jesus (the Truth Personified) meant in this verse: "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross (standing on the Truth) and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it." Matthew 10:37-39 I chose the Truth (Jesus, not religion) and I have lost everyone in my life except for my husband and daughter. I've lost my entire family of orgin (narc mother, golden child brother, duped relatives), my "friends" who all betrayed me and abandoned me, all acquaintances who also betrayed and turned on me for no real reason, even my neighbor who turned on me and attacked me for absoluteley nothing, nonsense. One by one, after I went no contact with my mother, they all turned away from me, even those who knew nothing of the situation (friends/ neighbor, etc). The reason for this is because these people have the spirit of anti christ (anti Truth) in them and it's a Hive minded demon that relays information to the other demons infesting these people. No matter what you do, they will always hate and persecute you. Better to follow the Truth (Jesus) and do what He says: "have nothing to do with them." 2 Timothy 3:5. Nobody is worth your very soul. Not even your own son/children. "And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death." Luke 21:16 These wicked people are of the "other seedline" mentioned in Genesis 3:15. They don't belong to God. Those who are persecuted belong to God, many just don't realize it yet. They need to repent of their sins, separate from these evil vipers, and follow the Truth (not religion which is a false path full of vipers). Read the Bible and follow Jesus.
THANK YOU you are literally holding my hand right now while I deal with my elderly ill narcisist mother who is playing her family like the puppet master she has always been
@Danielle B And also, he won't like her because shes shedding light on his toxic manipulation tactics. That's why he keeps an eye on her, to see what what you are learning about him.
This was my experience...always pleasant, never emotional, and don't come to him with problems - he's clearly not interested. Not sure what was worse, him not caring, or watching him pretend to care when he thought it would serve him.
"The enabling squadron" sounds like my family of origin. I'm tired to of the cognitivle dissonance, lack of courage to stand up to fake conditional kindness. Disengaging =freedom.
I recently read that a toxic family of origin with a narcissistic parent can feel like being part of a mini cult where the members must give total loyalty and obedience to the authoritarian dictator leader. Walking on eggshells so as not to enrage them. Almost like being held hostage only worse because you are expected to put on a happy face like everything is fine when out in public with them to maintain the happy family facade.. I could not agree more. It also creates symptoms of CPTSD in its members that can require a lifetime of managing after they break free of it.
@@disappearingremedy7400 You may also want to check out a book by Pete Walker called Complex. PTSD From Surviving to Thriving. It helps victims to understand what happened to them , process the emotions from the abuse and heal and move forward in health and improved awareness. I am reading it now.
@@1annettesinclair great idea. :-) after my sister's done reading it she's going to give it to me. We're trading. Bessel Van Der Kolk the body keeps the score also a very good book. There's a workbook by Arielle Schwartz, The complex PTSD workbook which goes great with Bessel's.💜🙏💕
@@disappearingremedy7400 Thank you. I have The Body Keeps the Score and will read it when finished with Walker's book. Thanks for the workbook suggestion!
So true Dr. Ramani. How many times do we try to enlighten them, or "understand" where they are coming from, is ridiculous. They are intentional all the time. Time to protect ourselves.
OMG, yes!!! I live in Tennessee, I am so sick of people telling me that they don’t understand the absolute abject cruelty coming out of the governor’s office because “Bill Lee is really a nice guy.” Also, just left a FB group this morning over this “why can’t we just get along” BS. No. We need to call out the cruelty for what it is.
Thank you so much Dr. Ramani! The enablers I know are "Narcissists in Training". They will hit you with every emotional trigger they can. If you know your true self, you can withstand anything. Your words are fire in their ears.
Thx for answering why there are so many flipping narcissists. I seriously, and this is a strong word, and I don't care, I despise phoney, fake people. I seem to attract them. I'm an enabler, trying very hard to stop being treated like garbage. When I think deeply about this I get very angry.
🏆, did you see when she had the Dixie Chicks on? 4 months back, the amazing singer was saying how she wanted, although the sisters begged her daily to get back at work, for her kids' lives to be about 'them' and not over shadowed by her career. Ellen says "Well some women can do both!" As an up to speed, state of the art woman who gave up my hard earned environmentalist career for my 'neighbour' (how did I know the narc was after kids & marriage?) at the time, yes it still happens, but I've no family to help me, I considered Ellen's remark a slap in the face. Where's Ellen's kid? She goes through life with a kind 'other woman' (ha ha) and tells the singer that, what, she's not up to snuff, as hard a worker as her real women fans? Omg the singer put her career on the back burner for her gaslighting husband's stage career, moved to Hollywood, bought him a boat 🚢 whereas he 2-timed her right on board! I don't watch her show (for good reasons) and that part came to me on U-Tube as I'd watched the song 'Gaslighter' often... The song is about the singer's ex!
I heard about it a couple of yrs. ago, but it just got swept under the rug. This time her employee's and guests are making sure everyone knows. I think that's great too many people get away with hurting others
I love how Dr. Ramani not only shares academic knowledge but is also attuned and resonates with us on the madness and devastation that comes along with these types of relationships/relations. Thank you 💛
I personally hate this phrase. I think this is one of the reasons why people don't learn. We need to feel, learn and remember what hurt us so we can protect ourselves and don't do the same things they did to us
Thank you this really helps me with all kinds of people including myself. I’ve learned to not only minimize my interaction with narcissists but their enablers as well.
Sometimes true kindness is to allow someone to face their consequences, b/c for some people, that is the only way to learn. Consequences can cause suffering, and in "growing up", it is essential to understand that others WILL suffer. Personally, I have to (I hate this word) "accept" that. My undeveloped emotional state had such difficulty with this because I intimately understood suffering and hate to see it in others. Alas, I can't assist, especially when I have my own issues. Even more important, if I do assist in order to mitigate their consequences, it's possible that I will further enable them while I impede their growth. Meanwhile, I've wasted my precious resources thereby risking my own well being.
Thank you SO much for this video and all you do to spread light and education on narcissism! Buddhists call what you're speaking about idiot compassion as opposed to authentic compassion. Informed kindness is a spot on way to describe it. I so agree that if people spent more energy discerning how and when to be kind and really practiced informed kindness, we would live in much more truly kind world, not just a world where kindness is performed and is a quick go to reflex to give instant, superficial gratification to all parties. Thank you again!!
I appreciate the term "idiot compassion" . I see it as "reflexive compassion". The pressures to "be kind" and to (as one of my relatives urged) , "smooth things over" from the world around us, take us over. We act as expected: kindly, reflexively, without deeper thought and selectivity. Reminding ourselves that we face a crocodile (narc) and refusing to put all of our compassion and kindness in the path of the croc's jaws is a very positive step toward healthy relationships. Boundaries rule!
@@barbarakelly1916 , Well put. Especially if your crocodile narc sister has recruited the fundamentalist christian relatives to "bring you around" to seeing the light! Sister acts so kind and caring in front of them. They are completely duped. She would never let them see her demon side.
Thank you for addressing this!!! This is what I've experienced my entire life, with my "Mother/sister duo of narcissists/ golden child and enabler". My entire life of being repeatedly bullied by them, with absolutely horribly, nefarious intentioned actions and words. Then if I called them out, I was bullied and told that "they never meant it to be mean" and I took it wrong or I was "extremely sensitive," or get this one, "she's a professional and she doesn't have time to think of what she's saying"....??? even though we were both "professionals." The gaslighting was absolutely horrendous and it was with absolutely every single interaction. They would cry if I simply said "That was a cruel statement", and then they'd tell me that they love me so much and why can I not just accept their love. They would blame me for calmly pointing out the cruelty, which I only did half the time because it happened so consistently and was exhausting. I was always their scapegoat for their insecurities and inner demons. The last time we spoke was when I very kindly drew my boundaries (that always threw them into rage, or crying and ignoring me) so I told them that was the last time I would I put up with their BS and wished them love and light and said goodbye for good! It's the best thing that I've ever done! Freedom!!! :)
Thank you, exactly right! I am so glad I watched this today. Other people trying to enforce "kindness" towards an abuser is an overlooked subject and all too real.
Some people can't handle the truth. I've noticed a trend where no one wants to have a negative thought. Positive affirmations and kindness never stops evil, never stops violence and never stops tyranny. every narcissistic person adds to making the world a little bit uglier. I believe they know what they're doing… And I believe the people who give them the pass are simply in denial. And have to think of themselves as the vessels of light all the time. I have one dear friend with whom I share facts...simpy facts about certain situations around the country. She comes back with "we have to be the light and we must think positive thoughts." Good luck with that! Brilliant analysis, Dr. Ramani!
Deborah Carder - I agree 100%. It's concerning that about half of the country doesn't agree. Half the country thinks rioting and looting is OK. I guess they are enablers, which really isn't a strong enough word!
Robyn Lund They do get it but are bought out and Owned. Almost the entire media outlets of the US. Fake news and lies abound, esp. with Con Vid now. Dangerous times are ahead.
Yea these behaviors drive crazy too, seems like everyone, well just too many people, don't follow basic rules of respect and decency. I try to go out of my way to show appreciation for others. I am stuck living with my family at the moment, I guess they could be worse, but it still wears me out have to constantly clean up after them, rearrange everything so I can find it and then being told to "be nice". And yes the gaslighting... I trouble having a lot of faith in direction that modern culture is heading in. However I am always happy to hear breakdown and you know, Ramani, its not that hard to try to be honest and genuine... As always thanks for your wisdom and help... Good luck to all the viewers of this channel.
They view respect and decency as weakness that gives them a "right" to do whatever they feel like to you, in the name of love and tolerance. If you don't allow it then you are a judgmental bigot and that hurts the attacker's feelings and that is the worst crime in all history. Surely, if we let evil run rampant then we will have peace because only evil people can do good. Going to church to worship = evil. Burning down a church = good and loving behavior.
@Workingto Seethelight, start taking care of yourself. Reciprocity of being nice is important. Put the oxygen mask on yourself before trying to help others. What we tolerate, we suffer. Don't reward bad behaviour. Choose what you want, then get used to it. Don't get used to what you don't like. I know I'm speaking in spurts, but these sentences have helped me to stand up for myself and brought peace in my life. My health has improved, stress has reduced. God bless.
What I see in the responses above is a healthy, reasonable expectation to be treated with decency & respect. It's called civilized behavior that everyone has a right to expect.
Your videos are so validating. It can be discouraging to watch people half heartedly call out toxic behavior. I’m wondering, can you do a series on healing in the future? I’ve gotten to a point where I’ve learned a lot about narcissism, but I can’t find as much good information on how to know when we are on the path to healing. Sometimes I can’t tell if my pain is productive or not and sometimes I wonder if learning more about narcissism is more like feeding an obsession rather than focusing on myself and learning to purge myself of the narcissists influence. How do I heal from abuse and move on, what does healing look like, and how do I know if I’m on the right path. Can healing be painful and how do I know when the pain is good for me? Eitherway, thank you for your videos. They certainly help bring validation and foster community, and you seem like a genuinely researched and empathetic source.
I understand. I feel similar to you in that, am I giving up valuable mental real estate by learning more and more on narcissism or is it actually productive towards healing? Perhaps you already did a video on this, Dr. Ramani? I think I got the term “mental real estate” from one of your videos.
Yes I think this is a great topic! I have spent some time every day of the past year learning about this stuff, I agree that I'd like to know when it crosses from healthy/helpful into fixating
I know what you mean when you ask about healing from it all. I am reading a book right now which is very helpful. Check out Complex PTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. I didn't think much about CPTSD in relation to narcissistic abuse but it is connected to it. The book is an eye opener and very helpful
DC I think I'm in a similar place as you, and I too would love to focus now on my own growth- authentic living, examining my own stories and behavior. And knowing my part in all this : )
Dr Ramani I totally agree with all you've said on the subject. It amazes me what people support and enable these days. Hence the lack of good character we experience in people nowadays. Keep up the great work! ❤️
Wow! You really hit home with this one. All my life I tried to be kind to everyone, not considering how I was being hurt. I needed this info, thank you 💖
Don’t know about other coutries, but where I live the ”normal” speaking voice of women has changed. Back in the day when I was growing up, was young we could talk in a normal voice. Recent years it’s become a norm that women need to talk with exerratedly soft and babylike voices to be accepted. Some kind of over feminization is going on. I notice that some men get offended if I speak with normal voice - like we should be all pink and bedroom ready all the time, super soft and motherly and comforting all the time - making ourselves smaller. Other middle ages women in my country have noticed this too. Wonder what it’s about?! Maybe the American tv and entertainment that flood into our cultural space have this impact? That women can’t anymore be anything else than their sex. I feel like there’s so much pressure to be an overly soft and feminine mythical creature these days.
@@LoveBeliefTruth, see for women who grew up in the South (United States), this is considered “lady-like” and speaking in what you’ve described as a “normal” voice is frowned upon. Also, when women are not warm and open, and use their brains instead of feminine wiles, this is also something not widely accepted. So, let’s just call this misogyny what it is. It’s more annoying when women jump on the bandwagon to conform and then perpetuate it against other women - usually in the form of competition or “pick me” behavior.
Dear Dr Ramani, you’re changing my life for the better with your videos, it seems I’ve been blind to a lot of people and behaviours that have been holding me back. Thank you doesn’t suffice! Love and gratitude from Wales, UK ♥️
I love you! Thank you so much for sharing such a valuable knowledge. This is saving my mental health and happiness. You're being kind by sharing this tools and resources.
"Informed kindness" coupled with disengagement sounds like the best approach to a miserable situation.This may be my very favorite of all Dr. Ramani's videos.
What a powerful statement. “Do you know who I am?” reached my letter box today in France. You may be “tired of being a teacher”, yet we’re not done learning from you. Thank you so much Dr Ramani 💕🙏
When grown professionals adopt the “be kind” approach, it seldom comes from a place of genuine kindness. Especially in managers, “be kind” means “I’ll rather deal with brief disruption instead of prolonged exposure + the admin work that comes with reporting the narcissist and all the joys that come with it.
Thank you and I am so happy I found your channel, especially now things aren't good in our lives. My husband recently got large fines and is on probation for his abuse of our daughter and myself. It is a consequence of his chosen actions, but he takes no accountability and has told others that we are lying about our accusations. Classic part of this, is the evidence was from his messages to us. Sadly this only makes us more frightened of him, because we have upset him more. We know it's not our fault, but self preservation kicks in to try and keep us safe. My sister is a narcee and I lost my nephew because of her treatment towards him a few years ago. I will not forgive her and I see her impact on the whole family still. Someone described her as pure evil and I actually believe she is worse than my violent ex husband which may confuse some people. I am hoping that I will find a way to recover from having him in our lives, but now at least he can't come near us until 2025. Everyone take care of yourselves and there is a way out of the darkness.
That was my workplace. "Oh, everyone's right", "Just be positive", "Oh but you don't be depressed", butterflies, rainbows and... BARF. And an obvious narcissist in charge, never giving any negative feedback and devaluing
This is the first video of yours I’ve watched Dr. Ramani, and I was so impressed by your intelligent approach to “informed kindness” and your refusal to blithely enable bullshit. I have had so many encounters with toxic people in my life that I tend to get pretty impatient with their disturbed agenda. In most cases I just remove myself from the situation, but when I can’t, I will remember your advice.
Informed kindness makes perfect sense, but I don’t often see anyone saying “let’s just be kind”, what I see is people so intimidated and afraid to lose what they have, that they don’t say anything about the toxic person losing their shit over and over again. I find that many people will believe what the Toxic person is saying and doing because of the false air of power that they put out, they would have to see the inner workings of the toxic person’s life to think otherwise. Friendship, kindness these are fading concepts... thanks to narcissists, power, authority and control through fear are concepts that run the world now.
Glad I found this channel. I became a friend with a semi famous singer. He love bombed me at first for my art. His forced kindness to me over my art and talking to me lasted for a long time. I talked to him over a year. Lately, when he would ditch me and ghost me for a month or so at a time, I realized my nagging feeling about him I ignored was true. He had time for everyone else. I made excuses for him as busy but he’d post stories that clearly showed he wasn’t. He had time for many other strangers and a few select friends. It was so bad I didn’t even realize he never once asked me how I was doing or liked any of my art that wasn’t about him. Thanks again for your content.
Dr. Ramani’s no-nonsense no-bs approach is a breath of fresh air in this PC, benefit-of-the-doubt-for-everyone world. We need to learn to see people for who they are, not who we want them to be.
Apology without change is just manipulation.
Wow perfectly said
Excellent! Well said
Kate Sage the word “Sorry” is meaningless unless they change their behavior. It never happens. I tell everyone this. Might as well say the word balloon as much as it means anything
Bam.
I was just telling my sister this the other day.... Well, that and she doesn’t owe anyone forgiveness if it hasn’t been earned.
The more I know people, the more I want to stay in my room without coming out.
Ha! Smile innocently at some guy as you cross paths/have a chat and he might think you want to take it further, being 'friendly' comes with risks!
Omg I hear you ... and I’m 64 !
Hell is people 👍😘
The more I know people, the more I love my dogs.
@@Musiclover-uo2oi I used to not like dogs but now when I find my husband is a narcissistic I wish I had a dog and not have this fake person
Yeah people suck just know that they project onto us lies that are deep within them and have nothing to do with us I’m learning to not take on other peoples problems anymore! I’m not feeling sorry for anybody ever again
The worst is when they're good with people and can sway people into thinking they're someone that they're not. Makes me sick.
My narc sister puts those tug at your heart videos on Facebook and comments "this is just so sad". So fake.
@@Jessica-zf2df Are you still friends with her on Facebook? I'm so good at unfriending, unfollowing and blocking people on Facebook. 😁
@@elenamorales812 no I've cut her out of my life and feel so much better since. I unfriended her on Facebook but didn't block. She was particularly nasty to me and never apologised or took accountability for her actions.
Thats my mom, the worst as a young kid was being yelled at for something silly then masking as an angel when the phone rang. BAH! :v
@@sarahbroussard7489 oh I know about that! My mother was hitting me in the car when I was a small child. The door opens as the grocer put our purchases in and my mother smiles sweetly at me and says "ok pet". So confusing for a child.
I notice how my Narc parents are more "loving" when others are visiting.
I'm so sorry, that can make things even more painful :( you'll be able to get out, I grew up in a toxic family and I've been no-contact for about 5 years, even when I was a kid I knew it wasn't right and kind of 'foreshadowed' going no contact to myself. Hang in there, you're valid, you matter, you deserve better!
Of course
In my experience the moment my sister or one of my sisters comes to visit then I am absolutely nothing. I live in the same city as my mom. When they leave then I am good enough again.
i think we all have a more professional tone of voice on thee phone with a business..
(maybe we don't.. or maybe it's because of narcs)
but my mom gets all sing songy, nice voice... and it seems so fake.
wtf. american /consumer culture is fake AF
👍👍👍👍
I made the terrible mistake of being kind and forgiving towards narcissists over and over again despite their cruelty to me. I even thought if I killed them with kindness that it would make a positive difference with them, which it didn’t. They instead took advantage of my kindness and saw it as an opportunity to have unchecked abuse thrown at me. No more. It wasn’t healthy for me and I had to put a stop to it before I lost my sanity.
People seem to hate kindness and take it as a threat
part of the reason i am a Recovering Catholic is that my boundaries/tolerance is not patient with emotional vampires. My abruptness often gets interpreted as rudeness - so be it cuz i do not put on a nice/deferring front.
Same to me, except we had 2 kids together and guess she just didn’t want that from the beginning
Same here. Had 4 kids with the narcissist, who turned them against me.
@@dianedeclare8541 Catholics were Crusading knights, not the pansy enablers who have taken over some Church teaching roles.
Empathy and kindness are truly beautiful qualities. Don’t give them to the people who haven’t earned it
Exactly
Agree.if they didn't behave we show our indifference and grey river stone
Anthony Ramirez but sometimes I think if we are kind to people who have been deeply hurt it could change their attitude .
👏🏼
@@annfeeney1662 Good luck with that when it comes to a narcissist.. Kindness will just get you stepped all over more, that's who they prey on.. Obviously be courteous and have manners, but don't go out of your way for them.. they will abuse no matter what you do, if you're their target..
This woman is pure genius. No wonder there is a waiting list to be one of her clients.
I'm so glad for people that have her as a therapist. They will not have to worry about invalidation.
She's highly aware
I’d love to be one of her clients so bad
I'm sooo sick of being a "teacher".. exhausting.!! And, im done caring if everyone else "gets along". Thank u!! "Fixers" tend to carry a lot of guilt and responsibility that isn't theirs to carry. I am slowly realizing this!!
That really felt validating just hearing that too. I've said it in the past myself - I'm tired of having to tell a grown person that their words hurt others.
When I was younger I was always trying to "fix" rifts in the family. Now I realize that isn't my responsibility, and I actually didn't consider whether the people even wanted to 'make nice." Extracting myself from the 'peacemaker' role sometimes makes me feel panicked and 'mean' but I ride the feelings out and they dissipate, thank heavens, before I pick up a phone to butt my nose in the middle. I remember how awful it felt when another younger relative did something similar to me, trying to make me and a sister "make up" when I had been on the receiving end of terrific abuse and have never wanted to see or hear from her again. It's weird that I and others actually tried to fix things we knew NOTHING about.
I empathize with u all! Sad part is how we stunt our own growth while worrying about others who ,sometimes it takes 40 yrs, to realize, they aren't going to grow, or "change", and now we have to catch up and pay for time we can't get back. But we can start to slowly take control back!
Say it! 👍
Fixer is an interesting role... If the narc fixer is enamored with a nominal measure of authority, they’ll quickly find underhanded ways to be breaker.. then swoop in as fixer, in their mind rescuer of everything.. an insidious toxic scheme to callously gratify themselves at own whim and leisure.
Years ago I was stalked and bullied by a narc colleague. Whenever I complaint to my boss, she just reminded me to be kind and understanding. It ended up with me leaving the department. At that time I realized that enablers are as worse as the bullies.
That sounds a really horrible experience. In my experience many people who say things like that to us, when the situation is as bad as the one you describe, are narcissists themselves. The complete lack of empathy there is severe.
Definitely. They make you out like the cynical bad guy for not being “kinder” and less judgemental. We feel worse coming out of conversations with a “kindness cult” enabler.
My ex fiancee has the enabler mom from hell. She enabled his narc dad, and now she enables him. It's sick. She's completely immature, a covert narc herself, and a "kindness cult" enabler. She's big on "forgiveness" too.
I feel like those people are the biggest cowards. They'd rather throw you under the bus than feel the discomfort from the narcissist. They even sacrifice their own child and have the excuse that what they did was "kind" and not stirring the pot.
So sorry for what you went through man…it’s so frustrating when the enabler even ends up getting mad at you, and tell you you’re not different from the narc (because the narc has made a smear campaign for years and years). I stopped “defending” myself. Just realized that those people will never seek help nor they will change. When I tried to get help, they trashed me for months. Man…I agree. The enablers are as bad!
I like what Narc Survivor said too. “They train you into displaying false kindness and respect toward them.” My face would often hurt after hanging out with my narcissistic friend; I spent a lot of the time with a fake smile. As a secondary source of supply (friends), I often suspected the kindness towards me was shallow and conditional... the kindness was extended to me as long as I kept smiling. Of course, my kindness was shallow too which made me despise myself. Tricky, tricky narcs...
I knew better than to openly reveal myself to the narc. I knew how she was from the start. I kept myself to myself, which was easy to do, because she only wanted it to be about her anyway. I also did not ever let on that i knew she was a narc. I limited my exposure on all fronts, & would usually only go out dancing with her as my gal pal, somewhere without much talking! Even tho' it has been over for a year or more, i still have zero desire to even cross paths with her on fb. Narcs can be very retributive, so best to let them go, even if owing you an apology, a chance to speak your peace, or having borrowed loads of money, or whatever. Just stay away from 'em.
These people are cold & empty. They prey on your kindness. Every move is intentional. They are unsafe to be around and will do it again.
Everyone's moves must be intentional. They just have negative and self-serving ones.
I consider them as hollow and soulless. Nothing in there and nothing to get back.
Spot on!!
@@terrylemal5163 I actually looked it up: Are there really soulless people? after i finally let go of my game face, & she walked away, knowing i could see her clearly.
@@angaeltartarrose6484 I’m guessing it’s something missing in their brain, the ability to have empathy.
"Most people who say invalidating things are repeat offenders" Dr. Ramani thank you, I wrote that in my journal ❤
Enough of those in my family....
💖
I also documented this statement.
I think the key is to stop the Invalidation cycle, else it never end. The person receiving the invalidation must stop returning the invalidation although it is human nature to give tit for tat. Everyone has the responsibility to stop the Invalidation cycle to make this world a better one.
Yep I wrote that down too ...!!! Everybody fucksup.....and others are repeat offenders who ENJOY hurting people ....to avoid their own inner hurt...and then ENJOY fuckingu up with fake apologies!!!
I used to wish for kindness and respect, now I demand it.
Yesss 👏
Same here!
Me too
Ms Prathy Durgam h
Hellyeah. A basic human right. Kindness and respect should be in the constitution, honest
My isolation made me lonely but I feel safer. Its so hard to find a therapist that knows or even acknowledged this fact that toxic people are poisonous by nature and won't change.
If I'm not in hiding they are. No way to live is it! House always wins!
Checkmate! ✌💪❤👊
I love being too myself where peace was once boring it’s everything to me now!!
Omg thank you! Im so sick of being shamed and guilted about speaking up because it makes people uncomfortable.
I think the rule of kindness towards everyone is why so many struggle to set boundaries. Normal people might respect careful kind attempts at them, but to be able to deal with difficult people you need to be willing to be less nice. Not aggressive, but very firm and as you say, step away.
Toxic people also tend to communicate that setting any kinds of boundaries is awfully mean. No, most people are perfectly able to set boundaries and still respect a person. On a meta level, It's actually very nice when you are trying to avoid enabling bad behavior!
You put it so well. This is the time to become compassionate assertive, it truly is. We have to look closely and listen deeply and call out bad behaviours without demonizing people. Kindness can sometimes be very cruel and lead to devastation.
Well said bellahazard!
yes I think so-- it creates a better overall atmosphere when there is N in the group... I think especially in a work context it can create more trouble for everyone involved if the boundary setting and disengagement isn't enacted pretty consisently.
It's even worse when you are a person of color and a woman. Getting mad when wrong is done to you at all is as if it is a taboo.
@@essencetune7341 I think you're right. It's taboo to get angry and raise your voice if you belong to a subordinate group. When abused power is questioned you're shaking it's ground. What if we all are human? Nothing more, nothing less. Then what?
Narcissists make me think I'm the narcissist, when I'm the one getting verbally, emotionally and lately physically abused by total strangers living in a homeless shelter. There are creepy men and women that get hostile when you don't interact with them. I really don't feel like being kind since I haven't known kindness much of my life, and only want to be kind to kind people, which is sometimes hard to do when I'm constantly being triggered. Thank you for all of your wonderful advice.
The "nice" routine the narc will perform when in the act of triangulating you against another person is academy award worthy.
Yes.....crocodile tears, wide eyed innocence....it's awesome 👍
I completely agree. I cringe when people say “we should all just be nice”. It gives a big pass to abusers and teaches people their feelings are invalid.
FINALLY...a mental health professional who can explain some of this toxic, mean, and ridiculous behavior and encourage us to not put up with it! I have a friend who is constantly stating "let's be more kind" or "send them love" while the other person keeps on doing the same thing! I have chosen to disengage and limit my time with these people...so I am fine...but thank you SO much for doing this video and for the work you are doing!
The pressure to be kind at all times can keep people silent in front of witnesses. It's tough. Thank you so much for this.
Yes you got that I've been shaking inside for the last 5 yrs or I am gaslighted by the flying monkeys in public while he arrogantly sits back knowing I've done nothing wrong yet hes made me a target fro. His lies and half truths
The worst part is when you know they know and have known all along.
Yes, this was me. I stopped caring.
That's exactly what happened to me. I not am almost completely silent because who knows how they will respond. Easier to shut me mouth.
I struggle so much with this. I would protest someone’s wrongdoings and then beat myself up thinking I have been unkind to them. But maybe offering the other cheek after getting slapped on one is not a realistic solution: especially on the long term. If not for myself, I need to speak up for countless others like me who are getting berated and abused for no fault of their own. Just because of the inherent crassness of someone toxic. Thanks for sharing this!
Well, the turn the other cheek saying just means to not insult them back, and walk away. It doesn't mean to offer yourself up to be hurt some more. That said, I do appreciate your comment. It's always good to respectfully correct someone when they are being rude or disrespectful in some way. I've done this with two co-workers of mine who thought it was ok to talk crazy to me. I just stated how it's not ok to talk to me that way, and how I would appreciate it if they would treat me with the same respect that I treat them with. Granted, I was angry when I said it and it could be heard in my tone, but I maintained respect for them nevertheless. After that, they've been very respectful.
Turn the other cheek? All you get is another sore cheek and more abuse. And the Narcissist gets away with it ....again....The Narcissist doesn't mind making everyone uncomfortable. They do it deliberately. They enjoy it. Consequences are called for. How about this...IF IT IS SAFE...call them out. ie. Family dinner with Narcissist Uncle Dave..who deliberately insults you in front of everyone thinking you won't want to make a scene & will blow it off....
Reply - "That remark was incredibly rude & insulting. You have embarrassed me. I would appreciate an apology". If Uncle Dave is upset, too bad. If he leaves, goodbye. If others are uncomfortable, THEY were not insulted. You deserve respect. I have done this. Most will respect you for it. They are sick of Uncle Dave too !
@ Leo B- Bravo !!!
@@venusrising6554 Thanks. Bravo to you as well! You handled Uncle Dave's behavior well.
I like your phrase "inhetent crassness of someone toxic."
Wow I just had an explosive moment with a family member who regularly denies all of her toxic behavior because she’s “polite.” Then comes the gaslighting - “you’re really overreacting, I don’t know what you’re talking about. I didn’t do anything.” And the toxicity never stops. No matter if I’m kind, or frustrated in how I call it out - it’s repeatedly dismissed. It is maddening, so maddening. This video was perfect timing for me! Thank you
I found it more effective to just give them the absolute "WTF" face without saying anything whenever you heard them saying something toxic/trying to talk shit about you - and then walk away with the expression of "I am not dealing with your bullshit today". That usually take the wind out of their sail, for some reason.
They are looking for the fight & when you don't give it to them, it drives them crazy
holy shit....that what my husband pulls on me all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 HOLY SHIT
@@bloodmajesty414 ive told him before, "you can be kind and sound kind but say the right words to hurt someone...no matter how kind you sound or how gentle you seem..." of course, did he acknowledge it??????? NOPE continues to gaslight n play innocent
The wicked are estranged from the womb;
They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies (corrupt genetics).
Their poison is like the poison of a serpent;
(serpent genetics Genesis 3:15)
They are like the deaf cobra that stops its ear,
Which will not heed the voice of charmers,
(truth tellers, common sense, logic, reason)
Charming ever so skillfully. Psalm 58:3-5
I stopped pleasing people and almost all my friends and family hates me the very moment I stopped it...I still have 3 kind people in my life..feeling thankful for them
"And they're psychologists!"
Jeez louise! Nobody is safe!
I've been kind for many years and it never helped.
Me too!
Yeah, I thought maybe I was going to get a "prize' at the end. I'm exaggerating but I was so convinced that my kindness would be rewarded some how. I'm still working on the difference between being authentic and being kind because of conditioning.
Such a waste of your precious energy, as Tracy Chaplin sings!
@@jean6453 we don't know other than to be kind, their drive is to make us nasty too! See ya never, no problems because we've no contact! My older overt bro's quite the married player, I never speak to him about it, 😝, then there I am trying to set him straight that actually no, neither I nor my husband, two times the other (together 33 yrs), what a demeaning thing to have to handle!
Lambs to slaughter...
They being kind is such a cinema. That is a mask that doesn't last long.They act kind to match your taste,sync with your thoughts, connect with your feelings.once that's done,you will see the most unkind animal.
It's also a gas lighting technique.
totally agree!
Agreed. I had a narc boss once; our small team ended up calling her out on her BS and she didn't take too kindly to it. But because it was five against one, she lost some power in the situation and we all spoke with the head of HR thinking that THIS would be the way to enforce change. I remember vividly when HR said "she's just adjusting to being a manager", "let's just all be nice". It felt really invalidating. It was even recommended that we went on an outing to "bond" together with our narc boss. We blindly took the suggestion and our boss feigned kindness and told everyone to "give me grace", "I haven't been doing this for long" and all that.
Fast forward two weeks later, she proceeded to do the same sh*tty things she always did all while denying that she said or did those things. We all ended up leaving the job within a month of each other -- some of us quitting without saying anything in advance because of sheer disgust with the toxicity of the company. We all cited the reason why we were leaving pointing to our narcissistic boss. She still remains at the company and was promoted to Senior Manager.
@@chrisjuu18 isn't it sad and pathetic that these narcs get away with their nonsense. I am sure that company lost many a good employee because of one nut job. These companies think the narcs are going to get rid of the dead weight and instead they lose good people.
yes, you are so right. sadly. And we think they're just really compassionate people, to find, in the next moment they're using this as a strategy to make us open up to do damage even better (and use anything and everything we've opened up about against us). :'(
Yes, my own possitivity and kindness kept me like a hostage in a narcissist´s life for a year. And then I had enough and left, no matter what all spiritual teachers say :P Now I set boundaries - respectfully - in the beginning and don´t play any games anymore just to please some egos!
Hey, im a narcissist. I only recently realized how habitual anf harmful my behavior has been. I always felt like a victim but I have been hurting others. Im trying to be more mindful of showing gratitude and meditating about feeling gratitude. This has helped me to be more empathetic and enotionally available for others. I find I am able to be genuinely happy to listen to other people and really engage with them in an authentic way. I am also learning to grieve. Whenever I feel like im being ignored or victimized, ai just take some time to grieve the feeling or the thoughts. Once ive done that, I tend to see my friends and loved ones more clearly. I am able to transition into remembering their love and consistency. My personal form of narcissism is rooted in a fear of rejection and abandonment. But when im honest, without all the bullshit, im able to really connect with others in a real way. These videos have helped me so much. Now i am trying to deal with the hurt ive caused. I cant fix some of the relationships i have ruined, and grieving their loss is gonna take a while, but its not all bad because the pain is a reminder to stay engaged and sensitive.
Quotes from a narcissist: “I’m sorry you’re offended”, I’m sorry you feel that way”, “I’m just stating facts”, “I’m sorry that you’re hurt by that, but you’re responsible for your own feelings”, “I’m not responsible for how you feel”, “are you owning your part in this?”, “I’m just speaking truths”, “I never had any intentions of hurting you with what I said”, “I wasn’t seeking to hurt you with what I said”.
And the biggest kicker is what they said to you is usually always a very contemptuous comment, attacking some quality about you and is demeaning to you over them. Dealing with the runaround of accountability from a narc is absolutely exhausting! All they have to do is say they are sorry for hurting you, just a tiny bit of humility that they made a mistake! They act like dying is better than admitting they hurt you with something they said or did. I will never understand it.
Though they do say those things; I say a few of them, too. The difference is that I apologize and empathize. Also, my ex got those phrases from me when I'd share things I'd learned in therapy. They were just justifications to him. It's all about intent.
Spot on. Or "I'm SORRY for EVERYTHING", and, my favorite, "If I wanted to hurt you, I would have done it easily" (translation: so don't even hold me accountable for what I did)
@@agnieszkaponka2305 Yep! Had that said to me too, and convo usually went like:
Narc: “I’m sorry for everything yesterday”.
Me: “When you called me a wench, that really hurt, don’t call me names”.
Narc: “Stop attacking me!”
Me: “I’m expressing my feelings and telling you I don’t want you to call me names, I didn’t say anything mean or demeaning”.
Narc: “What you’re saying is attacking my character and it isn’t okay! Don’t attack me!”.
Spot on
Never wait around for a teensy apology that won't be forthcoming. Just go now.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani! You’re my favorite TH-cam therapist! I can’t tell you how much you help me every time I listen to you. I have been an enabler my entire life. I’ve come a very long way the past 5 years, thanks to people like you who open my mind to reality.
You're beautiful!
Kelly Ann ! Yippee !
Kelly Ann,hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too precious 🌹 🌹🌷 🌷🌺🌺!
OMG! I've been told so many times that I"M THE RUDE ONE for pointing out when someone is being rude, or what they are doing is unacceptable. The culture in this community is to just purse your lips and not say a word. And people consider it aggressive to point out to someone when they are doing something wrong, even if everyone in the rooms sees that it's wrong. I've been a square peg in a round hole in this community for so long and it's really been a struggle not to gas light myself that my behavior is the problem.
you're actually stronger than they are. some people are just like that. most people are mentally too weak to maintain their mental strength through a lot of struggles or restrictions. but you have to give yourself time and space to heal and refine healthy ways to express boundaries. remember, you got to be alone with yourself who is a person who you can be proud of and has courage and know yourself and your reality. that is a huge gift. :)
Yes, I'm rude because I point out some one who is trying to take advantage of me... umm..
“Be kind.” -Ellen DeGeneres
Making that rule benefited her; no one could call her out on her BS.
Well, at least she was 'outed' in the end!
she's a narc backstage.
@@redoktopuss1581 Bullshit
It is easy to feel guilty for standing up for yourself, someone you love, or what is right, because it might sound unkind, but to overlook the truth and give in to fake or forced kindness doesn't shed any light... It only enables the narcissist and turns everyone else into flying monkeys. I really needed to hear this today, and am so thankful.
Yes...faked kindness isn't kind xx
In tears I realized, its okay to be kind but its not okay to be naive. Especially when I have a family to care for I must be wise and kind using it properly at the right times. Just because you're nice to a tiger doesn't mean it won't eat you! You're just a friendly appetizer!
Narcs, abusers and bullies love people who "kill them with kindness".
This is very on point.
@@loanicastillo3327 Well….It is actually Biblical….so….
Where did this idea of " be nice" come from? Why are we not taught to be assertive and set boundaries ? I know so many people who don't have the practiced skills of verbal self defense, or how to even tell someone to stop doing or saying something out of bounds. Perhaps we could have a video that models appropriate responses to aggressive or passive aggressive situations that we all come across in our lives.
Jean, Speaking for myself, My parents wanted "nice" children. What parent doesn't want compliance in their kids? I think that's where it starts. I was conditioned to always be helpful to my mother, considerate of others (without expecting consideration in return), to not defend myself if someone was rude: Two rules from my mother "Just consider the source." From my father, "Don't say anything, just let it roll off your back like water off of a duck." I'm sure the parents didn't realize all the problems their conditioning would cause me in adulthood !
@@notagain779 Yes, so true ! And it continues in preschool, kindergarten, and all through schooling. We are even conditioned in public by seeing other people's inability to model appropriate boundaries ! Yikes ! I have a lot of relearning to do !
"Why are we not taught to be assertive and set boundaries?" A question for my parents.
@@jean6453 , I hear ya ! Me too !
In the US anyway, it’s just another tactic to keep racist white people in power. Be nice, you imagined that, those Evangelicals don’t hate you, the cops are just scared good guys. It’s all designed to keep good people silent.
Thank you once again for validating and clarifying this dynamic. I find those kindness people not only our enabler‘s, but this is learned behavior often in a home that felt not safe. The individual learns to cope by not making waves and protecting the abuser. Unfortunately, in adulthood it just perpetuates another abusive dynamic.
"This isn't summer camp. We're grownups and we need to be realistic." Literally summarizes my issues with narcissism overall
Another great video. This has been my entire life. Everyone else gets a free ticket for "awe, that is just the way she is", but when then I get criticism for a hick-up, 5 minutes late, being sensitive, expressing my needs, or for making a mistake. I never get credit for putting up with all these goofy people. Thank you;-)
I saw the same exchange. I am a Clinical Psychologist and I totally agree with you. Thank you for this video.
And they'll tell everyone behind your back how reliant you are on them and how much they have to do for you. Plus, they'll tally it all up and you'll owe them, and they'll let you know it. They'll smear you and they'll try to destroy you if you let them do anything for you.
I learned this from a very early age. I saw what they did, and i always said, "no thank you." They'll push doing for you, but i always said, no. Just one tiny thing, and they've git you. And you'll never be free from it.
All they do is smear campaign
IKR,
It pisses me off how the X would alwAys blame/shame me and take all the credit for Everything.
He was constantly Over entitled and Self Serving appearing as a generous do gooder.
@@deltaradiance9034 you've got this exactly right. They love seeing someone affected negatively by them. Any spark of them being a thought in another person gives their ego a power trip. It makes them feel alive. Social vampires! Helen, and all of us, are survivors. And the guilt, shame, fear, withholding not feeling good enough,, or effects harming us physically or mind-wise is a life-source to them, because they are desperate to be in control over others, knowing how weak and fearful they themselves truly are.
@Angela Nicholson That's what my narcissist half sister does to me. She does things for me when I didn't ask her to and then throws it up in my face.
@@pandoraw259 awful, and i know how you feel. These people are nuts, not sick. They thrive on screwing someone up.
Thank you, Doctor Ramani! Prescient as usual... I find it strange that those who advocate "kindness" to/for the narcissist very rarely if ever get behind kindness to/for the victims of their abuse.
Thank you so much for this! I've noticed on social media how narcissists are bullying others, yet when I call them out I'm the bad guy for calling it out. It's exactly what you say, the kindness cult wants to forgive and forget and give the bully "grace." It's sickening and only validates the narc behavior.
Yes, I was often told I was unkind if I called out my mom’s manipulative behavior, and if I called out my dad’s and ex’s emotionally abusive behavior. My mom’s feelings would be hurt and my dad and ex would suddenly be cordial and I was the abusive one, with no grace, attacking them by asking them to stop or questioning them.
It happened a lot at work often also. Me, the ultimate people pleaser, was often portrayed as not a team player when I finally would speak up.
Agreed. Sounds like my story
Ever since I was a little girl, I always thought about what I said so I wouldn’t hurt anybody especially my parents. However, the people I was so careful with didn’t mind hurting me. I’m in my fifties now and I finally lost my patience two years ago and let them have it. It was probably not the best thing to do! They really couldn’t handle it and have cut me out. I guess I was that important to them in the first place.
Maria Daquila,you are too precious 🌹 🌹🌷 🌷🌺 to be with a narc 🙄!
They were just using you :( You are better off though. You deserve to be treated with respect, no matter what.
You've gone cold turkey, and whilst this is all painful, it has shown you all at once rather than dragging the issue over time. I wish you lots of healing and self expression and joy in your life. 💐
This one hits home big time. Thank you for your insight. I’m going to listen to this repeatedly. It’s extremely hard to silence the enablers who try to tell you that you weren’t nice for not accepting cruel behaviour... obviously that isn’t what they meant. Healthy relationships, in my opinion, are extremely rare. Very few people I’ve met, including my accidental family and those I initially chose to be in my life are willing to be vulnerable, self reflective and grow. When you do finally find it, there’s no turning back. For me, it came at a huge cost - family members including adult children don’t like your strength and find other people in their bigger lives that will give them what they want.
That's a pretty dumb thing to say... My dad rarely visited his mom, he said he didn't feel good doing so, she undoubtedly gave him a tongue lash for past behaviours and now an adult myself not wanting to hear mom's cruelties/having cut her off myself I'm understand!
LH You are the first person in all of these videos that I have seen make any kind of comment about adult children. I’m dealing with a situation right now where my daughter-in-law is so toxic that she has completely turned all of my children and their significant others against me to the point where no one will even listen to my side of anything. Everyone just believes the lies that she spouts and they shut me down immediately if I try to talk about the issue or my feelings. The problem is, if I’m not nice to her, I not only lose my son that’s married to her, but the other kids who now view me as she does. If I am not nice to her, I’m playing right into her hands and proving that I AM the mean person she says I am. I feel like a complete hostage if I want my children! I am so sickened by this and I have no idea how to handle it. I’ve been given ultimatums by everyone that I can’t bring up any “drama” or “negativity”, or they will not msg me back, etc. No one will talk to me on the phone or come over. I have no way to EVER speak my truth or vent my frustrations to any of them. I’ve never felt anything this painful in my entire life. Have you dealt with anything similar? I want my children in my life more than anything...but at what price?? Thank you for your comment! 💜
@@laurenv2003 It all boils down to who you love the most: your son, kids, etc or the Truth. If you choose the former, you are selling your soul for idolatry. That's what Jesus (the Truth Personified) meant in this verse:
"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross (standing on the Truth) and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it." Matthew 10:37-39 I chose the Truth (Jesus, not religion) and I have lost everyone in my life except for my husband and daughter. I've lost my entire family of orgin (narc mother, golden child brother, duped relatives), my "friends" who all betrayed me and abandoned me, all acquaintances who also betrayed and turned on me for no real reason, even my neighbor who turned on me and attacked me for absoluteley nothing, nonsense. One by one, after I went no contact with my mother, they all turned away from me, even those who knew nothing of the situation (friends/ neighbor, etc). The reason for this is because these people have the spirit of anti christ (anti Truth) in them and it's a Hive minded demon that relays information to the other demons infesting these people. No matter what you do, they will always hate and persecute you. Better to follow the Truth (Jesus) and do what He says: "have nothing to do with them." 2 Timothy 3:5. Nobody is worth your very soul. Not even your own son/children.
"And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death." Luke 21:16
These wicked people are of the "other seedline" mentioned in Genesis 3:15. They don't belong to God. Those who are persecuted belong to God, many just don't realize it yet. They need to repent of their sins, separate from these evil vipers, and follow the Truth (not religion which is a false path full of vipers). Read the Bible and follow Jesus.
THANK YOU you are literally holding my hand right now while I deal with my elderly ill narcisist mother who is playing her family like the puppet master she has always been
Good luck hon, social services took mine away, she'd collapsed, no kids, family, nor husbands nor co-workers, neighbours to feed on.
helen Lund,I hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too precious 🌹 🌹🌷 🌷🌺
@Danielle B And also, he won't like her because shes shedding light on his toxic manipulation tactics. That's why he keeps an eye on her, to see what what you are learning about him.
Being kind is a gift not a prank 👩🏼🌾 you give it they receive it,but to pretend to be kind is sickening 😒thank you so much doc 👏🏼💐
I must always be pleasant and engaging with my narcissist. It feels like there is very little of the real me they want to see or know.
This was my experience...always pleasant, never emotional, and don't come to him with problems - he's clearly not interested. Not sure what was worse, him not caring, or watching him pretend to care when he thought it would serve him.
Dr Ramani, thanks for everything you do and for providing such valuable information
"The enabling squadron" sounds like my family of origin. I'm tired to of the cognitivle dissonance, lack of courage to stand up to fake conditional kindness. Disengaging =freedom.
I recently read that a toxic family of origin with a narcissistic parent can feel like being part of a mini cult where the members must give total loyalty and obedience to the authoritarian dictator leader. Walking on eggshells so as not to enrage them. Almost like being held hostage only worse because you are expected to put on a happy face like everything is fine when out in public with them to maintain the happy family facade.. I could not agree more. It also creates symptoms of CPTSD in its members that can require a lifetime of managing after they break free of it.
@@1annettesinclair Very well said. The channels and comments help to come out of the mind torture. Thank you for the validation.
@@disappearingremedy7400 You may also want to check out a book by Pete Walker called Complex. PTSD From Surviving to Thriving. It helps victims to understand what happened to them , process the emotions from the abuse and heal and move forward in health and improved awareness. I am reading it now.
@@1annettesinclair great idea. :-) after my sister's done reading it she's going to give it to me. We're trading. Bessel Van Der Kolk the body keeps the score also a very good book. There's a workbook by Arielle Schwartz, The complex PTSD workbook which goes great with Bessel's.💜🙏💕
@@disappearingremedy7400 Thank you. I have The Body Keeps the Score and will read it when finished with Walker's book. Thanks for the workbook suggestion!
So true Dr. Ramani. How many times do we try to enlighten them, or "understand" where they are coming from, is ridiculous. They are intentional all the time. Time to protect ourselves.
Fabulous. Informed kindness for me means I must learn to only dole out the same level of kindness I receive from another person.
Lisa,I hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too precious 🌹 🌹🌷 🌷🌺🌺!
I feel so comforted when I watch your videos
Leila Jane,I hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too precious 🌹 🌹🌷 🌷🌺!
OMG, yes!!! I live in Tennessee, I am so sick of people telling me that they don’t understand the absolute abject cruelty coming out of the governor’s office because “Bill Lee is really a nice guy.” Also, just left a FB group this morning over this “why can’t we just get along” BS. No. We need to call out the cruelty for what it is.
Thank you so much Dr. Ramani! The enablers I know are "Narcissists in Training". They will hit you with every emotional trigger they can. If you know your true self, you can withstand anything. Your words are fire in their ears.
@@Oceans780 Therapy will help with coping mechanisms. They will also try to make you feel bad about going to a therapist. Stay strong and safe.
Oh this is 100% I had this just recently. They try to tell you who you are and it's pitiful 😂
'This is not summer camp.'
Dr Ramani-
Such a much needed topic ! Thank you Dr.R ❤️
Dr Ramani you are the voice of reason in this crazy world.
Thx for answering why there are so many flipping narcissists. I seriously, and this is a strong word, and I don't care, I despise phoney, fake people. I seem to attract them. I'm an enabler, trying very hard to stop being treated like garbage.
When I think deeply about this I get very angry.
It's coming out how mean Ellen DeGeneres really is. And she tells all of us to Be Kind.
How so?
🏆, did you see when she had the Dixie Chicks on? 4 months back, the amazing singer was saying how she wanted, although the sisters begged her daily to get back at work, for her kids' lives to be about 'them' and not over shadowed by her career. Ellen says "Well some women can do both!" As an up to speed, state of the art woman who gave up my hard earned environmentalist career for my 'neighbour' (how did I know the narc was after kids & marriage?) at the time, yes it still happens, but I've no family to help me, I considered Ellen's remark a slap in the face. Where's Ellen's kid? She goes through life with a kind 'other woman' (ha ha) and tells the singer that, what, she's not up to snuff, as hard a worker as her real women fans? Omg the singer put her career on the back burner for her gaslighting husband's stage career, moved to Hollywood, bought him a boat 🚢 whereas he 2-timed her right on board! I don't watch her show (for good reasons) and that part came to me on U-Tube as I'd watched the song 'Gaslighter' often... The song is about the singer's ex!
Yes she’s a clear narcissist
I heard about it a couple of yrs. ago, but it just got swept under the rug. This time her employee's and guests are making sure everyone knows. I think that's great too many people get away with hurting others
Delta Radiance,
Yes, it works for them only
You have to go along to get along so selling yourself short, denying yourself and unmet needs
I love how Dr. Ramani not only shares academic knowledge but is also attuned and resonates with us on the madness and devastation that comes along with these types of relationships/relations. Thank you 💛
I typically view interactions with narcissists as a series of 'unteachable moments'.
Lol!
Or “get over it and let it go.” Something’s need not to be forgiven.
I personally hate this phrase. I think this is one of the reasons why people don't learn. We need to feel, learn and remember what hurt us so we can protect ourselves and don't do the same things they did to us
Stand firm and don't tolerate abuse/invalidation. Be discerning with your goodness/kindness ALWAYS
Thank you Doctor.
Thank you this really helps me with all kinds of people including myself. I’ve learned to not only minimize my interaction with narcissists but their enablers as well.
Sometimes true kindness is to allow someone to face their consequences, b/c for some people, that is the only way to learn. Consequences can cause suffering, and in "growing up", it is essential to understand that others WILL suffer. Personally, I have to (I hate this word) "accept" that. My undeveloped emotional state had such difficulty with this because I intimately understood suffering and hate to see it in others. Alas, I can't assist, especially when I have my own issues. Even more important, if I do assist in order to mitigate their consequences, it's possible that I will further enable them while I impede their growth. Meanwhile, I've wasted my precious resources thereby risking my own well being.
Ellen D.Scott,I hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too precious 🌹 🌹🌷 🌷🌺!
Understanding is only through self effort.
Thank you SO much for this video and all you do to spread light and education on narcissism! Buddhists call what you're speaking about idiot compassion as opposed to authentic compassion. Informed kindness is a spot on way to describe it. I so agree that if people spent more energy discerning how and when to be kind and really practiced informed kindness, we would live in much more truly kind world, not just a world where kindness is performed and is a quick go to reflex to give instant, superficial gratification to all parties. Thank you again!!
I appreciate the term "idiot compassion" . I see it as "reflexive compassion". The pressures to "be kind" and to (as one of my relatives urged) , "smooth things over" from the world around us, take us over. We act as expected: kindly, reflexively, without deeper thought and selectivity.
Reminding ourselves that we face a crocodile (narc) and refusing to put all of our compassion and kindness in the path of the croc's jaws is a very positive step toward healthy relationships. Boundaries rule!
@@barbarakelly1916 , Well put. Especially if your crocodile narc sister has recruited the fundamentalist christian relatives to "bring you around" to seeing the light! Sister acts so kind and caring in front of them. They are completely duped. She would never let them see her demon side.
Cathy Wasserman,you are too precious 🌹 🌹🌷 🌷🌺 to be with a narc 🙄!
Thank you for addressing this!!! This is what I've experienced my entire life, with my "Mother/sister duo of narcissists/ golden child and enabler". My entire life of being repeatedly bullied by them, with absolutely horribly, nefarious intentioned actions and words. Then if I called them out, I was bullied and told that "they never meant it to be mean" and I took it wrong or I was "extremely sensitive," or get this one, "she's a professional and she doesn't have time to think of what she's saying"....??? even though we were both "professionals." The gaslighting was absolutely horrendous and it was with absolutely every single interaction. They would cry if I simply said "That was a cruel statement", and then they'd tell me that they love me so much and why can I not just accept their love. They would blame me for calmly pointing out the cruelty, which I only did half the time because it happened so consistently and was exhausting. I was always their scapegoat for their insecurities and inner demons. The last time we spoke was when I very kindly drew my boundaries (that always threw them into rage, or crying and ignoring me) so I told them that was the last time I would I put up with their BS and wished them love and light and said goodbye for good! It's the best thing that I've ever done! Freedom!!! :)
Thank you, exactly right! I am so glad I watched this today. Other people trying to enforce "kindness" towards an abuser is an overlooked subject and all too real.
Awe....I can hear her cat at her feet!! How cute! Such a real addition to your amazing content Dr. Ramani
Some people can't handle the truth. I've noticed a trend where no one wants to have a negative thought. Positive affirmations and kindness never stops evil, never stops violence and never stops tyranny. every narcissistic person adds to making the world a little bit uglier. I believe they know what they're doing… And I believe the people who give them the pass are simply in denial. And have to think of themselves as the vessels of light all the time. I have one dear friend with whom I share facts...simpy facts about certain situations around the country. She comes back with "we have to be the light and we must think positive thoughts." Good luck with that!
Brilliant analysis, Dr. Ramani!
Just compare Ronald Reagan and his fair toughness to the derelict, Obama. Proof in point.
Deborah Carder - I agree 100%. It's concerning that about half of the country doesn't agree. Half the country thinks rioting and looting is OK. I guess they are enablers, which really isn't a strong enough word!
Robyn Lund The appropriate term is Domestic Terrorists.
Deborah Carder - Yes. And we need to tell that to the main stream media! They don't get it.
Robyn Lund They do get it but are bought out and Owned. Almost the entire media outlets of the US. Fake news and lies abound, esp. with Con Vid now. Dangerous times are ahead.
Yea these behaviors drive crazy too, seems like everyone, well just too many people, don't follow basic rules of respect and decency. I try to go out of my way to show appreciation for others. I am stuck living with my family at the moment, I guess they could be worse, but it still wears me out have to constantly clean up after them, rearrange everything so I can find it and then being told to "be nice". And yes the gaslighting... I trouble having a lot of faith in direction that modern culture is heading in. However I am always happy to hear breakdown and you know, Ramani, its not that hard to try to be honest and genuine... As always thanks for your wisdom and help... Good luck to all the viewers of this channel.
They view respect and decency as weakness that gives them a "right" to do whatever they feel like to you, in the name of love and tolerance. If you don't allow it then you are a judgmental bigot and that hurts the attacker's feelings and that is the worst crime in all history. Surely, if we let evil run rampant then we will have peace because only evil people can do good. Going to church to worship = evil. Burning down a church = good and loving behavior.
I am in your exact same position, I know exactly how u feel
@Workingto Seethelight, start taking care of yourself.
Reciprocity of being nice is important.
Put the oxygen mask on yourself before trying to help others.
What we tolerate, we suffer.
Don't reward bad behaviour.
Choose what you want, then get used to it. Don't get used to what you don't like.
I know I'm speaking in spurts, but these sentences have helped me to stand up for myself and brought peace in my life. My health has improved, stress has reduced. God bless.
What I see in the responses above is a healthy, reasonable expectation to be treated with decency & respect. It's called civilized behavior that everyone has a right to expect.
Bullies don't bully you because you weren't nice enough. They bully you to get their way and/or feel powerful.
" Kindess cult."
I LOVE this.
This message needs to broadcasted everywhere on every platform.
Your videos are so validating. It can be discouraging to watch people half heartedly call out toxic behavior. I’m wondering, can you do a series on healing in the future? I’ve gotten to a point where I’ve learned a lot about narcissism, but I can’t find as much good information on how to know when we are on the path to healing. Sometimes I can’t tell if my pain is productive or not and sometimes I wonder if learning more about narcissism is more like feeding an obsession rather than focusing on myself and learning to purge myself of the narcissists influence. How do I heal from abuse and move on, what does healing look like, and how do I know if I’m on the right path. Can healing be painful and how do I know when the pain is good for me? Eitherway, thank you for your videos. They certainly help bring validation and foster community, and you seem like a genuinely researched and empathetic source.
I understand. I feel similar to you in that, am I giving up valuable mental real estate by learning more and more on narcissism or is it actually productive towards healing?
Perhaps you already did a video on this, Dr. Ramani? I think I got the term “mental real estate” from one of your videos.
Yes I think this is a great topic! I have spent some time every day of the past year learning about this stuff, I agree that I'd like to know when it crosses from healthy/helpful into fixating
I know what you mean when you ask about healing from it all. I am reading a book right now which is very helpful. Check out Complex PTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. I didn't think much about CPTSD in relation to narcissistic abuse but it is connected to it. The book is an eye opener and very helpful
DC I think I'm in a similar place as you, and I too would love to focus now on my own growth- authentic living, examining my own stories and behavior. And knowing my part in all this : )
@@1annettesinclair Thank you for the suggestion ! I'll look at that .
Dr Ramani I totally agree with all you've said on the subject. It amazes me what people support and enable these days. Hence the lack of good character we experience in people nowadays. Keep up the great work! ❤️
Wow! You really hit home with this one. All my life I tried to be kind to everyone, not considering how I was being hurt. I needed this info, thank you 💖
"Toxic positivity" has pervaded our society more than ever. I agree wholeheartedly about your "informed" and deserved kindness approach. Thank you.
It feels like having a cheerleader! Thank you 🙏🏼! And for understanding the problems. ❤️
People have confused "nice" with "good". They tone police like it is their day job.
Don’t know about other coutries, but where I live the ”normal” speaking voice of women has changed. Back in the day when I was growing up, was young we could talk in a normal voice. Recent years it’s become a norm that women need to talk with exerratedly soft and babylike voices to be accepted. Some kind of over feminization is going on. I notice that some men get offended if I speak with normal voice - like we should be all pink and bedroom ready all the time, super soft and motherly and comforting all the time - making ourselves smaller. Other middle ages women in my country have noticed this too. Wonder what it’s about?! Maybe the American tv and entertainment that flood into our cultural space have this impact? That women can’t anymore be anything else than their sex. I feel like there’s so much pressure to be an overly soft and feminine mythical creature these days.
I am not a nice person, but I consider myself a good person.
MsJeesus what country do you live in?
@@LoveBeliefTruth Damn that's intense! May I ask where you live?? I have not noticed that trend in Sweden so I'm curious how far away you live
@@LoveBeliefTruth, see for women who grew up in the South (United States), this is considered “lady-like” and speaking in what you’ve described as a “normal” voice is frowned upon. Also, when women are not warm and open, and use their brains instead of feminine wiles, this is also something not widely accepted.
So, let’s just call this misogyny what it is. It’s more annoying when women jump on the bandwagon to conform and then perpetuate it against other women - usually in the form of competition or “pick me” behavior.
Dear Dr Ramani, you’re changing my life for the better with your videos, it seems I’ve been blind to a lot of people and behaviours that have been holding me back. Thank you doesn’t suffice! Love and gratitude from Wales, UK ♥️
I love you! Thank you so much for sharing such a valuable knowledge. This is saving my mental health and happiness. You're being kind by sharing this tools and resources.
I have learned the hard way that the greatest kindness I can give to the narcissist is to stop enabling his abuse and walk away.
Sometimes I feel that every video is about a current situation I’m living 🤯. Everytime I’m in doubt Dr Ramani drops a Video 🙌🏾
Same!😅
I thought I was the only one!!!
I feel so guilty about walking away from family. This video helped me realize I did the right thing!
"Informed kindness" coupled with disengagement sounds like the best approach to a miserable situation.This may be my very favorite of all Dr. Ramani's videos.
What a powerful statement.
“Do you know who I am?” reached my letter box today in France. You may be “tired of being a teacher”, yet we’re not done learning from you. Thank you so much Dr Ramani 💕🙏
When grown professionals adopt the “be kind” approach, it seldom comes from a place of genuine kindness. Especially in managers, “be kind” means “I’ll rather deal with brief disruption instead of prolonged exposure + the admin work that comes with reporting the narcissist and all the joys that come with it.
De Ramani I just want to let you know how much I appreciate you. You’re the best!
Thank you and I am so happy I found your channel, especially now things aren't good in our lives. My husband recently got large fines and is on probation for his abuse of our daughter and myself. It is a consequence of his chosen actions, but he takes no accountability and has told others that we are lying about our accusations. Classic part of this, is the evidence was from his messages to us. Sadly this only makes us more frightened of him, because we have upset him more. We know it's not our fault, but self preservation kicks in to try and keep us safe.
My sister is a narcee and I lost my nephew because of her treatment towards him a few years ago. I will not forgive her and I see her impact on the whole family still. Someone described her as pure evil and I actually believe she is worse than my violent ex husband which may confuse some people.
I am hoping that I will find a way to recover from having him in our lives, but now at least he can't come near us until 2025. Everyone take care of yourselves and there is a way out of the darkness.
That was my workplace. "Oh, everyone's right", "Just be positive", "Oh but you don't be depressed", butterflies, rainbows and... BARF. And an obvious narcissist in charge, never giving any negative feedback and devaluing
This is the first video of yours I’ve watched Dr. Ramani, and I was so impressed by your intelligent approach to “informed kindness” and your refusal to blithely enable bullshit. I have had so many encounters with toxic people in my life that I tend to get pretty impatient with their disturbed agenda. In most cases I just remove myself from the situation, but when I can’t, I will remember your advice.
I really like this video. It's the Roadhouse approach. Be nice until it's time not to be nice.
"Kindness Cult" well put as always Dr. Ramani.
Thank you for your dedication
Informed kindness makes perfect sense, but I don’t often see anyone saying “let’s just be kind”, what I see is people so intimidated and afraid to lose what they have, that they don’t say anything about the toxic person losing their shit over and over again. I find that many people will believe what the Toxic person is saying and doing because of the false air of power that they put out, they would have to see the inner workings of the toxic person’s life to think otherwise. Friendship, kindness these are fading concepts... thanks to narcissists, power, authority and control through fear are concepts that run the world now.
Glad I found this channel. I became a friend with a semi famous singer. He love bombed me at first for my art. His forced kindness to me over my art and talking to me lasted for a long time. I talked to him over a year. Lately, when he would ditch me and ghost me for a month or so at a time, I realized my nagging feeling about him I ignored was true. He had time for everyone else. I made excuses for him as busy but he’d post stories that clearly showed he wasn’t. He had time for many other strangers and a few select friends. It was so bad I didn’t even realize he never once asked me how I was doing or liked any of my art that wasn’t about him. Thanks again for your content.
Dr. Ramani’s no-nonsense no-bs approach is a breath of fresh air in this PC, benefit-of-the-doubt-for-everyone world.
We need to learn to see people for who they are, not who we want them to be.
Love your righteous anger and full humanity on display today! I also have had it with "kindness" enablers of narcissism. Thank you.
Deborah May,I hope you are not with a narc 🙄 cause you are too precious 🌹 🌹🌷 🌷🌺!