Medieval Crossbows vs. Breastplate and Lamellar Armor
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- Basic introduction to medieval crossbows: • Medieval crossbows: Fu...
350 lb munition grade crossbow tested on helmets: • Can a 350lb Medieval C...
45 lb bow and 350 lb crossbow against ballistic gel and gambeson (padded coat): • Light Bow / Medieval C...
Measuring the velocity and kinetic energy of bows and crossbows (historical and modern): • Which Shoots Hardest? ...
Improvised draw weight measurement (aka the most Redneck way to measure): • The Most Redneck Way t...
Tests on butted and riveted mail: • Old vs. New - Bows and...
First demonstration of the 15th century windlass spanned crossbow (976 lb draw): • 15th Century Windlass ...
Who made these reproductions: www.todsstuff.c...
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The Churburg breastplate repro (16 gauge): ww4.aitsafe.com...
The 20 gauge steel lamellar armor: ww4.aitsafe.com...
Where to get synthetic ballistic gel: amzn.to/2hm4wvJ
My favorite online store for historical arms and armor (worldwide shipping):
ww4.aitsafe.com...
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Breatplate: *stops most of the weapons*
Movies: *We don't do that here*
thats modern steel and materials and technique we use and developed and improved.
As for middle ages crossbows were banned by Pope for being too lethal and amateur pleb could potentialy kill noble/king and person with wealth enough to wear such armor.
Materials degrade and get rusty just because you can me stainless steal with low inperfections now well I dont have to repeat myself.
@@MrSaintVehementus Modern steel? Waht do you think crossbow bolts are made from. That armor wasn't even tempered.
@@MrSaintVehementus do you even watch the video jeez, he literally explain it in the beginning
@@MrSaintVehementus looool really the Pop had to ban them? Was the first nerf in history... So the war up until that moment was pay to win lol WHAT A BIASS
@@starscreamsdkfz475 NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST DESECRATE OUR CHIVALRY SYSTEM THAT TAKES DECADES OF TRAINING AND A FORTUNE IN EQUIPMENT.
ha ha crossbow spam goes twang
People really think knights spent hours getting suited up in a hunk of metal that cost a fortune and decades of skill to forge for no reason except to look cool
I'd wager most people don't ever give it a second thought apart from what they see on screen. Not that they get the chance to think about the information they're practically force fed anyway.
Well, they look cool actually.
Fucking Hollywood that made armor a joke
well on TV the protagonist can always just slice right through plate armour with ease, so yeah.
@@sweetsour6783 Netflix's The King (movie) does a pretty fantastic job showing what fighting in armor was like.
@@haloslayernoob Not fantastic but they got the right idea. Its still adjusted for drama and overplays certain factors like the extreme fatigue that kicks in way to fast.
And this was at close range too. Shows how silly historical shows are where archers easily penetrate plate armor at long range.
My thoughts exactly.
ChristophInns exactly.
There's this misconception that crossbows or arrows pierce through the plate. That's not really true. In reality arrows were used en masse to try and hit the sensitive spots. Like they said in Lord of the Rings: the neck or under the arms. It's also worth mentioning that a knight probably won't be hit with a single arrow, but dozens. See the holes that guy puts in the armor? Those don't get fixed during the battle. The holes stay, and if another arrow (out of the hundreds being fired) hits or ricochets into that hole it could do some serious damage. It's more about the collective damage over the course of the battle, rather than just one or two arrows piercing straight through the metal plate.
The horse was also an easy target, as if it was hit with just a single arrow it was likely to freak out and flee, because horses aren't dumb and don't want to die. The main problems with full plated armor were the quick exhaustion from the knights and the lack of mobility. Sure, you can hop around and run for a little while in armor. You can see videos of it on youtube of people doing cartwheels, sprinting, and jumping wearing a full suit. However, you would get tired pretty fast. Imagine a battle going on for HOURS and you're swinging a heavy sword with 50+ lbs of metal on. Knights would get tired pretty quickly.
It's also worth mentioning that it was far more practical to just beat the shit out of a knight with a heavy blade or mace. To basically bludgeon them, or break their bones under the armor rather than pierce it. This was normally done on the arms and legs, where there were multiple small plates for mobility, rather than a giant single piece of steel to protect the organs.
TL:DR - Most of the time you aim for the legs, arms, and neck, not chest. You would also have better luck trying to break bones than pierce.
@@whatever3132 If there are several archers, it's also fair to assume that there are other knights as well. And remember that this is in close range so the damages to the armour is maximized even though, quite frankly, some of them barely did anything. Besides, even with the holes, those aren't easy to exploit, much less target.
@@9308323 Maybe, but armies kept using archers, so they obviously worked. We can only really speculate, as the histories only record winners and movements of armies, not the specific minutiae of how each knight individually fell.
Meanwhile in movies Arrows/Bolts are 20mm armor piercing flak shell
*an arrow penetrates 7 layers of ateel*
Splash damage
On the medieval battlefield archers would have used tips on that arrows designed to penetrate armor. They wouldn't have used standard hunting tips
The quality of metal would be much worse too.
German steel was far superior to Japanese steel even in WW2 due to difference of smelting and forging. Go back 800 years using ancient metalwork techniques.
If I can shoot bullet head arrow tips through sheet metal with a 50 lb hunting bow, you can bet your ass that an 120lb war bow or 960lb crossbow could penetrate armor.
Would it happen all the time? Probably not. Was it possible, especially en masse? Definitely.
And while the hits look like they 'bounce' go put on a Kevlar vest and have someone shoot you with a handgun. You will absolutely feel the concussive force and have bruising.
You wouldn't just shrug off hits like nothing. Even if you looked okay on the surface.
@@HauntingSpectre yup, plus as skal said the armor thickness tended to vary across the armor since they didnt have nice uniform rolled steel to work with meaning that the wearer might be ok against a single heavy crossbowman, several of them firing constantly would likely find a weak point fairly quick.
I always knew the fucking Rhodok sharpshooter crossbowmen were cheating. No way I should be losing fifty hitpoints from that.
Maxajax hahahahaha, fuck the rhodoks, seriously
Rhodoks>khergs,sultanate
Those motherfuckers are impossibly overpowered.
Praise be the butterlord
Where is your king/sultan now?
*Movies:* guy with bastard sword casually stabs through full plate armour using only one hand.
Poor guy, he's already too poor to afford proper armor then he gets cut down in a fight.
A minute of silence for the unfortunate fella.
Full papier maché plate armor
Hell, actual papier mache armor would probably be sturdier than Hollywood Plate...
@JasonBombzero Don't quote me on this, but if I recall correctly, a method similar to that was used. Paper Armor was used here-and-there by some Eastern cultures. Surprisingly effective, too.
Jolly Jester, myth buster had tested paper armor, it works really well (for short time).
Really gives you a reasonable idea of just how efficient full plate armour would have been and how hard it would be to kill a fully armoured knight.
Shoot him with a ballista and hes dead!
Makes me wonder how strong the English longbowmen needs to be to kill a fully armored French knight at Agincourt.
Asmin Siza actually it is one of the battle with the most prisoners, and the Knights that were wounded were mostly wounded to the face because for some reason (better seeing or breathing) they opened up their visors. (Sorry if my English is not totally accurate, I am French.)
well the bow draw weight that used by english longbowmen would be at least 120-150lb, and with that kind of value you got a bow that still surprass 350lb crossbow since crossbow is not that efficient in mechanical energy transfer. To efficiently kill fully armoured knight you just simply tire them and using manuver aka you have less armor. Now some english longbow have the draw weight of 180lb, which comparable to 1000lb crossbow (again due to effient mechanical energy transfer generally of a bow, beside the longer limb)
Or you know, you could just goin with classic method that worked since the invention of stirrup; lance charge through the heart ;)
umm... No. They are as mobile as you-- More, in fact, if you wear chainmail. The weight is distributed evenly over the body, so a full plate armor will not tire you. Other then the helmet, in fact, there's very little that makes movement difficult (I say the helmet because it does get hot underneath) and in most cases, the knight you are referencing is usually more fit then you are.
"So, if you're unlucky while wearing armor, some bastard might hit you twice in the same spot"
@@holywatermuffin7772 just lower your head and keep your arms adjusted to your torso
@@ComradeHellas or just use a fucking shield dude 😭
@@skndr1964 shields were not frequently used by european infantry, they used 3/4 plate armour which was more than enough to stop any crossbow bolt as we can see
From this distance - who will hit next will be the man with the sword
@@ComradeHellas It was about lammelar
King Harlaus: lives to feast another feast
King Yaroglek: questionable, probably at least resting for a few days
Less talking, more raiding!
thas a nice head you have in ur shoulders
The King of butter lives!
butter
Bannerlord is out 31 of this month, if you're interested
4:06 I like the thought of a knight repairing his almost totaled armor with duct tape in battle
That was actually a huge surprise. I would never have thought heavy crossbows being so goddamn useless even against thin lamellar armour (especially on such short distance!). Hollywood really bamboozled me, they always show crossbows being very efficient against armour. The lighter crossbow would not even severly wound a person just wearing a gambeson! Incredible!
Corniflox it isn't useless, but of course it can't pierce a solid piece of steel and still penetrate further.
The lesson is that armor WORKS
On a side note lamellar is extremely good at stopping arrows. If you look at the video, they simply bounce off even if superthin metal is used. That's why lamellar was widespread among archery based warfare like the far east.
The metal lamellae are not too rigid, so whed hitted by the arrow, they have space to move in and a lot of energy is lost with this effect. Also the lacings act as a springs, which makes the arrow being ultimately repulsed. This effect is even stronger when silk laces are used.
However, higher kinetic objects like spears or hammer are much more devastating.
the object of an bolt or an arrow is only to wound the enemy, even if we don't take armor in the picture the possibility to kill with one shoot is very rare, but a wound is enaugh, because not only would take the target out the fight but would have a fare high chance to get infected
Luca Nic that's not quite true, lamellar didn't protect against arrows, swords or spears any better than mail armor did. it was also heavier than mail. the difference was that the main users of lamellar (the chinese) were using these badass polearms sorta like poleaxes and halberds hundreds of years before europeans did. those weapons caused alot of blunt force trauma that mail was totally ass at protecting against. the chinese also used mail as well.
Can a Rhodok Siege Crossbow kill a Vaegir who spent all of his denars on Lamellar armor?
*FIND OUT TODAY.*
Also a question is would a Rhodokian give any fucks ever about Vaegir archer spam?! I think not!
Depends on how vile the beggar is.
I was thinking about Byzantines with the lamellar upgrade against venetian crossbowmen but ok
The Answer; *Yes!*
Border Bread it gets worse when it's almost harvesting season
What has youtube taught me? It taught me that the books I read as a kid were full of it. I used to think that 1,000lb crossbows would go right through plates. Even with all that power you'd still need to aim for weak points.
draw weight in crossbows are mostly negated by the short draw length meaning the bolt has only a short period of time to accelerate. a medieval crossbow with over 1000 lb draw weight would be about as effective as a 220 lb draw longbow, which was the highest draw bow found on the Mary Rose.
wor575 I know that now, but growing up before the internet books led me astray.
It does make fantasy and historical fiction a bit... interesting. And oh my, the movies. >_
The main advantage of crossbows was that they required very little training to use. A bow required significantly more skill to use right, while any old peasant could be handed a crossbow, a crannequin, and be let loose.
planescaped I'm not sure I buy that, I know from experience it takes skill to hit anything with a rifle beyond point blank range, a crossbow can't be much easier than a rifle.
Beyond being able to hit something with the darn thing a crossbowman needed to know his tools inside out, just as a poor African militiamen needs to know every nook and cranny of an AK-47.
A crossbow is a far more complicated piece of machinery than a bow, and would require substantial money and training to maintain as well as use.
4:11 did he just put tape on the holes ??
RESTORATION : 100
John Derat what tape?
The duct tape, he even says it himself, he place tape on the holes.
Lol that was a joke.
it was to cover the already done holes and not confuse them with the new penetrations
A little late, but more like Armorer 100. Still a good attempt though.
[meanwhile in Hollywood] ARMOR IS AS EFFECTIVE AS PAPER!!!!
I mean the japanese made paper armor
Or paper is as effective as armour. Watch two crazy Finns make body armour out of toilet paper AND IT WORKS: th-cam.com/video/NwcSjB2euCc/w-d-xo.html
Layers of paper can make quite good armour against sharp objects. If the 'grain' of the paper is alternated to provide bidirectional strength it works even better. If you make plates of paper armour using starch/glue (papier mache), it can be incredibly strong. I made some 'armour plates' from 32 layers of cheap printer paper and PVA glue, compressed the plates using a few heavy books and when they were dry, they stopped determined thrusts from some seriously sharp knives. Just keep away from open flames. 😁
Pretty ironic that historically there was a type of armor made from paper and it was surprisingly effective.
Hmm. I think it's time to upgrade to a b̶a̶l̶l̶i̶s̶t̶a̶ trebuchet.
Notmiuser If this demonstration of how disappointing a heavy crossbow is against simple armor is, I fully expect a flying boulder from a trebuchet to bounce off plate armor with minimal damage.
No, the one that shoots massive arrows for lack of a better term.
Time to use firearms!
@@oluff1153 a ballista, is what you are refering to.
A siege pommel might be your best bet.
The lamellar armor demonstrates a couple of interesting things that hadn't occurred to me before seeing the results of this test: for one, steel doesn't have to be particularly thick gauge to protect well against projectiles, and two, an advantage of "scale mail" might be ease of repair. The construction isolates the damage to just a few plates that one might imagine could be easily and relatively cheaply replaced with new steel.
That judgment is entirely without the benefit of knowing exactly how difficult it is to repair badly damaged steel plate of course, so an experienced blacksmith may disagree.
I imagine that to repair those holes: either one has to tie up the snapped leather string or restring the whole thing after replacing the bent plates. Tying up is quicker but may be less durable. Restring is time-consuming.
@@sapienecks But it can be done in the field without a forge and smith. A knight or wealthier footman can tell any random squire or follower to restring armor during downtime.
@@sapienecks It is also more likely that they would be tied with cord, much like Bowstring, rather than Leather lace, being it would be much more durable and higher tensile strength than Leather Lace. And no doubt the plates themselves would be slightly thicker than 1 mm steel, if only slightly.
The byzantines experimented with both plate and lamellar. Lamellar was found to be better at deflecting arrows and better at being repaired. That of course is to my knowledge. I could be wrong
plate armor would be very easy or very hard to repair depending on how thick it is and furthermore if it's heat treated. Thin, untempered steel would be easy. Just use a rounded hammer and hit the inside of the dent to fit the shape of the armor again. Thicker untempered steel would require a bit more force but same story. Tempered steel however, in order to repair, might require heating to move the material back into place and thus must be taken to an experienced armorsmith in order to temper the steel again after heating it up to repair.
*Gunpowder has entered the chat
*FullPlateArmor left the chat
No it didn't. gunpowder wasn't powerful enough to stop platemail...well ever actually. Plate mail was used in WW1 in fact.
Reminder that guns existed the same time around plate armor, and the latter persisted well until the 17th century or so.
@@baronprocrastination1722 And it made a comeback in WW1. Germans had plate armor.
Tom Hill the British and french too. There were also some French and US prototype helmets to counter shrapnel that looked straight out of the medieval ages
Modern plate armor is basically just a metal rectangle fitted into the pocket of a vest. It is designed nice and flat so that shots can't glance off.
4:35 Dude is recording this while an actual war breaks out on the background.
He's just at a gun range
@@Shero1337 r/wooooooosssssshhhhh
@@pinkestlasagna stfu he did get the joke
this is why early inaccurate and short range guns are used. Despite all disadvantages, they did penatrate armors and that was enough reason to use them.
They actually didnt in most cases, armor was tested by shooting it in the 14th century
Early firearms aren’t as inaccurate as you think.
Depends on what sort of early firearm you're talking about, the velocity of the projectiles it shoots and what those projectiles are made of. Soft lead balls have to be going extremely fast to do anything more than splash instead of penetrate when they hit something solid, like a face-hardened steel breastplate. See here for example: th-cam.com/video/ZOVJoS80pAA/w-d-xo.html
@@bobafettywap3170 Yes they were.
Marmocet however, crossbow bolts were used in very early guns.
“Scrotum leather” made my day
I'm kind of wondering where I can get a new scrotum leather jacket.
That was perfect
One of two literal laugh out loud moments for me watching this one. When he shot twice in the same spot got me too.
Best insult for crappy leather I have ever heard. Had me laughing out loud.
*has crossbow bolt embedded halfway through the ribcage*
"It obviously hurts... But might not be lethal"
Classic viking understatement.
Overstatement*
You still bleed out... adrenaline just wins you some time to run away, but you do that in army, you’d be tried for desertion
@jack bauer Yeah but the difference is that most cops use hollow points and those are meant to stop a non armored target more effectively and with less shots to theoretically neutralize the threat faster yet leave a higher chance of survival due to them dropping faster, which leaves less room for a cop to mag dump a suspect if they don't go down, not to mention that they also don't want over penetration, as to not hit any innocent bystanders. In war your average foot soldier will use fmjs because they are the most cost effective to supply, and usually other hostile soldiers are better equipped than a street criminal and usually have body armor, which give a higher chance to penetrate the armor, because it expands less than the hollow point, leaving less surface area overall on the bullet. However, with an fmj, if it passes through an unarmored part of your body, it will usually go straight through, especially with a rifle(barrel length, rifling, grains, and powder in the round) opposed to a pistol.
@@cappuccinosnephew1382 Actually, FMJ’s don’t usually go all the way through unless they’re big rounds like .308, 7.62x39, 7.62x54 etc.
The standard 5.56 and 5.45 are designed to penetrate armor but when they hit a torso they typically trail around in the body making a rainbow shape or U shape
Me: *Shoots the guy with the heaviest armor to help my friends*
Guy in heavy armor: "Hey, you ruined my cuirass!"
Me: *_Hurriedly runs away while cranking windlass_*
The plating looks efficient but I think the secondary blunt force impact is not to be underestimated. Especially around the rib cage. Cool video.
Does it make someone recoil as it fires? Does the man firing jerk back as thr bolt flies?
Then impact effect can be dismissed.
@@sunrisejackdaw1779that’s not how that works. All the momentum is concentrated in the tip at impact, as you can see in the video how the armor distorts on localized impact. They would also shoot from elevation aiming for the head. So if it hit a weak spot, it would penetrate you body, but if it hit armor it could crack ribs or skull
@@diverman1023 Clearly, no work is done to bend armor. Clearly, impact transmits through in flagrant defiance of physical law, like sonic weapon from space.
When material is bent, energy is used to do work of denting vest. Force acts on whole object, and localized area yes, but indent is minor, unless suddenly armor is bonetight for some reason.
9:03 "what are they, scrotum leather?" LMAO
Keowar hahaha I was looking for this comment
This is the only time I’ve heard Skall swear, properly
Held up quite well for being budget plate
I was surprised it held so strong under my hammer blows.
They're probably made out of slightly tougher steel than originals. Steel quality is much better now. The only things really "budget" in comparison to originals are the quality of the finish and the fitting. The protective capability is pretty much the same, at least against crossbow bolts.
Better steel, worse craftsmanship. The original breastplate had a solid textile back and much more overlap between plates. Also it is likely (though I'm not sure) that the front plate would have been thicker than the side ones.
The Churburg 13 is a solid design. A lot comes down to the quality of leather used to hold the metal together, admittedly, but in terms of glancing surfaces, it's pretty good for its time.I would recommend it highly for people who want to doa transitional 1350s reenactment and who don't want to do a coat of plates for whatever reason.
tougher maybe but poor tempered from how easy the bolt bent it
The difference in impact is also important to note.
The breastplate spread out the impact across the entire surface of the plate section that is hit, while lamellar, mail scale etc. cannot do this, but the impact is delivered upon the single small section(ring, scale, plate) that is hit.
Neutral Fellow having padding underneath still helps dissipate the force enough that it would hardly even bruise, even at that short distance.
Yes for the plate, not as much for mail/lamellar/scale.
The impact is still focused instead of spread.
"What are those, Scrotum leather?"
probably one of the best quotes in any of Skalls videos XD
The question I have with some of these crossbows is the practicality of reloading them in the middle of a battle with arrows and rocks flying at you.
It might be easier to have someone behind winding up a spare or two and passing the wound xbows to the shooter. So each shooter would be using 2-3 xbows in circulation if they were going for rate of fire.
The crossbowman would likely have the greatest accurate range in the battlefield, so they would be trying to stay out of range. Plus the pavise crossbowmen had a huge shield to hide behind in between firing.
From what I've read most professional crossbowmen had a offsider or two and a big shield they would carry the hide behind while loading and shooting.
They work in teams. They are usually placed in castles for defense
just buy multiple crossbows :)
So if the lamellar lames were a little bit thicker and the material used to hold it together was of better quality, it may have very well been pretty good armor.
This is basically how brigandine was invented.
yeah, I agree. Skall is very upfront on the budget quality of that particular lamellar. better quality leather cords and even just slightly thicker plates would have been better.
I can definitely see how crossbow-fire might be able to "soften up" targets for melee. I mean if you create weak points, or holes, in plate armor, you could then proceed to punching a warhammer spike or a spear through that same hole. Won't be easy but it is an additional opening.
I doubt it'd present an opening that's viable enough to become an alternative to the normal method of simply bludgeoning the wearer with a giant polearm or wrestling/capturing them.
Well, if the armor starts bending/losing plates, it starts losing structural integrity. So, less efficient and even easier for a warhammer or poleaxe to finish the job.
Crossbows and arrows I'm Mediaeval times were not aimed at knights. Remember only the elite could afford amour. The rest of the army wore what ever they could find. Crossbows and bows were for them
@@edwardelric717 Not to mention you wouldn't waste time and ammo on people you can't kill.
@@edwardelric717
Well there are other armour types that were quite common that are hard to shoot through with arrows
It sounds like Matt from demolition ranch is making a video in the background.
chai perets heyyyy
chai perets pew pew pew
Skrrp pa pa
ko ko ko poom
He probably is, all weaponry TH-camrs are connected in my opinion 😂😂😂
Does an actual red-bearded viking guy comes with the plates as a bundle?
Available on special order, pick up only. lol
PS: Wife is wonderful isn't she. :)
"I have a budget"
*buys one thousand dollar swords*
It would be interesting to see, what the impact would do to the wearer underneath all that armor. In modern warfare you often see hits to the chest, wich are completely absorbed by the plate carrier but a large bruise spanning across the entire chest.
Would be interesting to see whether or not Crossbow hits have a similar effect
By judging the review from internet, the blunt damage that target receives can very from not even noticeable to quite deadly, really depends on what hit you and where. If we completely take out the limbs and head, which are softer targets, and focus completely on the chest plate, then something like swords or bows do absolutely no or very little damage. I am sure that maces, especially big one and under correct angle, can potentially deal enough damage to either kill target, break some bones or just deal a lot of pain and damage armour. At the same time I am not sure about spears, but it looks like that they do little damage.
At the same time it is quite important to not forget about other targets than torso. Hit to the arms or legs with heavy weapon most definitely will end either fractured or at least make it hurt a lot. I believe that swords and axes can also do that kind of job more or less effective. The head is the least protected place, not because it lacks armour but because the sheer brute force even with something like sword or axe can do some damage, and getting hit by mace in the head will do a lot of damage.
P.S. don’t take my word for truth as most of the conclusions I took from videos and by making educated guest.
I got to fire a heavyweight crossbow a few years ago, and you feel the immense momentum of the bolt as you shoot it. Since it’s all in the tip on impact, it would most definitely be able to crack a skull under a helmet or rib cage under a chest plate
It would probably be helpful to back up another 10-15 yards. Its hard to see in the video but it looks like the bolts out of the heavy bow are flying a little squirrely. That is likely contributing greatly to them breaking at the shoulder. Backing up with hopefully let them straighten out a bit before impact.
^^^^
I was thinking something similar. Also they all curve to the lower right it seems.
Breaking the arrow could be usefull back in the day, as the same arrow could not be fired back.
Fun Fact: scrotum leather is actually quite tough. My doctor told me that when I got burns on mine.
Please tell the story.
I like to imagine you were "making love" very vigorously and started a fire.
@@joshstock6591 Guess the damn doctor didn't keep the promise that he won't make my story a fireside tale.
@@uniwasamistake6334 Bahaha! Love your sense of humor friend!
@@joshstock6591 we didn't start the fire. It was always burning since the world's been turning.
" What are those!? Scrotum Leather!? " -Skallagrim 2017. Best thing I have heard all year, that Quote made my crappy day better.
From the arrow designer's standpoint, the challenge to creating an arrow capable of piercing armor like this is to make its diameter as narrow as possible so that the area of metal it has to punch through is minimized. The arrow's tip should be made of metal at least as tough and hard as the armor, and its geometry should be such that it is able to retain its shape so that it retains its mechanical advantage. Also, the tip's broadest point should be slightly broader than the broadest point of the arrow shaft so that the tip makes a hole in the armor large enough for the shaft to pass through without rubbing against the entry hole walls. I would suggest that an arrow or bolt with a tip made of hardened steel that resembles the head of a philips head screwdriver might be optimal, and attaching it to the shaft with a tang and socket would be superior to the socket-only method of attachment.
That black armour looks rad as hell.
Username checks out
The power of the heavy crossbow seems a little disappointing imo
Its not so much. The thing is crazy powerful. So powerful it even has some kick to it, and its painfully loud too.
seklay What are you talking about? Both plate and lamellar are great against bows and crossbows. It doesent matter how strong the crossbow is, it wont penetrate that armour that was supposed to protect against them.
I wish the Stronghold devs would know this. Seeing crossbowmen annihilate full-plate swordsmen with metal shields is funny af.
Adam B There wasnt full plate and metal shields in those times but hey
Maybe, but they did it anyway lol. Look how the swordsman and knight units are in full plate or at least half-plate, not sure. But they're covered in plate is all I remember and are also very slow moving.
So to sum up, wearing a decent armor back then secured you having a good time.
yes not dying is quite fun
you can imagine how enthusiastic nobles are with their far superior armor while the peasants grumbled over how unfair it is that the rich people are really hard to kill
And yet, 3 unarmored peasants were capable of taking you down and stabbing you in the face or armpits.
Well going into war and getting shot by crossbows might not be the most fun thing but it'll at least secure you having a less shitty time
Pretty much. That armor took a pounding.
Makes sense why you'd buy the best kit possible. Difference between happy looting time and dying in agony is a well made breastplate.
This is Thrand! Excellent testing :)
Hey Thrand. Someone recommended we test a grenade on it. What do you think about that?
Tried that TH-cam was not impressed lol
Shots fired. XD Glad you're back Thrand.
should test the dane axe on it
Friis Forge I don't know, would it be holy and from Antioch?
Man it's good to see these old crossbows in action with those crazy draw weights. Having seen them hanging on wall in various castles I always wondered how they'd perform. Thanks for the uploads and testing.
7:26 Poor Robb Stark.
That bastard Frey shot him without armor on, it must've been painful.
He had plates in his coat if im not wrong
John Kongsaisy Nope. Roose Bolton had chainmail, Rob had nothing.
At 9:28
NOW THAT'S A LOTTA DAMAGE
i hate myself for that
_HOW 'BOUT A LITTLE MORE_
The meme is spreading. Echcellent.
When you hammered a knight and then he responded by "do you even lift brooo"
"Dost thou even hoist brother"
I dub this breastplate, "Bolt Breaker!"
Let all ye who dare attempt to shoot at it suffer from the most inconveniently broken bolts!
And his sidekick, scrotum leather!
Jolly Jester all craftsmanship is of the highest quality. It is made in pig iron and chrysoberyl. It menaces with spikes of chrysoberyl.
On the item is an image of Avafi Hawkdrum the elf and Otung Castlechucked the Frenzy of Earth the bronze colossus in red panda leather. Otung Castlechucked the Frenzy of Earth is striking down Avafi Hawkdrum. The artwork relates to the killing of the elf Avafi Hawkdrum buy the bronze colossus Otung Castlechucked the Frenzy of Eath in Pulledmenaced in the Euphoric Hills in the early autumn of 62 during the Rampage of the bronze colossus Otung Castlechucked the Frenzy of Earth in Pulledmenaced.
that really does sound like something that happened.
For the only fortress I did, the major menace were carnivorous possessed deers.
It's literally the description of a recent artifact crown I got. I'll have to keep an eye on that bronze colossus situation, last fortress a named Roc that was depicted everywhere murdering goblins actually showed up...
Digging this back up after Tod's Workshop's fantastic video with longbows. This is amazing. I really appreciate these videos that aren't afraid to break armor.
I’m here after Tods Windlass crossbow video
Might not be "perfect", but I really appreciate seeing this kind of testing. It's close enough for me! Keep up the great vids, Skall.
"There's not much point" Very punny! :)
8:45 Plates in lamellar armor often were just around 1mm thick. So this is historically accurate.
yeah, but they do overlap quite a bit, No chance against blunt shock tho
but i think the plates were much more firmly attached to be effective
Yep, most likely.
Also, late lamellar armour or brigandines were occasionally made from plate-armour that didn't hold up to modern firearms.
+edi Wait, what?
It was too bad about how dark it got. The gods were not on our side that day, between batteries and sd cards and the ever receding sun i'm glad we got as much done as we did. lol
Axtually it didn't look to bad for me. Anf y'all did a fine job with what ya had. By the way, maybe u could try make some armors, you could probably make better armor than these 2. Just don't use the scrotem leather XD
Totally. It is something I am looking into. As my tooling expands I can make new and cooler things.
I just picked up a new welder (hopefully get to unbox it today) and with that I will have the ability to create and design my own armoring forge, among other things. Creating plate armor is most definitely on the to do list.
Giant Mountain Dwarf. lol
Friis Forge the gods? 1 God...
One god may be enough where you are from, the Northmen have a need of many.
Odin, Thor, Balder, Freya, Tyr, Heimdall, Loki just to name a few.
By the time armor reached that level of tech, gunpowder was being introduced into European warfare. :)
Interesting presentation. Well done!
What was the likelihood that in period they would have used such cheap leather lace for the lamellar? As opposed to higher quality cordage? Even sisal would function better IMO. And we know from historical finds that cordage post 10th century was quite versatile and rugged.
Regardless. This was a really good test.
Thank you for the demonstration.
I know now what to avoid when armor shopping.
He said outright he had a tight budget, but your point is indeed valid.
Knights were basically medieval tanks, one on one with them you're screwed
1 007 Your only option is to run the fuck away
Tanks are breakthrough weapons, knights are generally shitty at creating breakthroughs - though they are good at exploiting them.
Just as with tanks it’s all about immobilizing them, isolating them and then it’s all about defeat in detail.
Kill his horse, break his leg and he is done. It was done at Courtrai without the use of longbows or crossbows, just a diciplined town militia with wooden clubs and a spike on top.
Most of the time knights were taken out by a group of regular soldiers/peasants surrounding them, tackling them to the ground/dehorsing them, and then sticking them everywhere.
That'd be a bad way to go.
Finkeren if you are talking about the Flemish, they where seriously well armoured themselves.
Nikita Blagodarov everyone in the front line of battle were armored at that time. Even the peasants at Visby (though that is a bit later) wore armor. The point is, that it was a town militia on foot defeating mounted knights in close combat.
So Skallagrim, I know this may be a wee off topic.... but that looks like an invasive plant behind you (at 1:00). Would you consider reporting it? If I am not mistaken you live in BC, where Himalayan blackberry (that thorny shrub) tends to be a problem.
Skall's fans are the most precise ones (except pommel "comedians")
Fruit500 To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand POMMEL jokes... 😎
+kahootz norris True, humor is extremely subtle and without a solid grasp of HEMA most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head
+Dave Walker I guess it's there to reflect sword's hits coming to head
Not too commonly, but commonly enough. It was there to deflect lances and thrusts coming in, so they do not slip up against the throat. It was replaced later by a plate that covered the neck. This cuirass is from a period where plates just started, so noone thought of the throat cover or maybe they did not have the technology handled just yet to make those.
Thanks for these types of videos, medieval weapons vs medieval armor vids
I watched this again after an argument with a friend of mine. This video is still spot on In 2022. There was a reason for plate armour.
It's actually fascinating how much damage it does to the armor still. It not only shows us how a lot of men lived to fight so many battles, but also how men in armor would fall - imagine being hit with bolts over the course of an engagement, or while you're on full charge forward.
Wow, pretty effective.
Of course crossbows don't have pommels so it's not fair.
Lever could work as a pommel tho
@@fruit5003
Need a pommel
That's why arquebuses were introduced. Even though they were very unwieldy and absurd in reloading, they were still a highly efficient can opener in a battle with cans on both sides, where using other weapons basically meant bashing your opponent until he gets exhausted.
I lost my faith in crossbows , you literally can defend yourself with a aluminum fry pan...
Look youtube broadheads vs steel barrel and say it again 🙄
tell that to the riot shields that got wrecked by bows
just aim for the nuts dude
Older Crossbows are brilliant for defending upon castle Walls.. Less so for soldiers on the ground, without protection.
Medieval crossbows are terribly inefficient due to the amount of drag and low draw length. Modern crossbows are on par with compound bows so no comparison there.
Literally the only good crossbow vs armour video on TH-cam.
Even other good TH-camrs will use modern crossbows, not historically accurate ones, thanks for actually trying to make a good test
Okay, this is an old video, but it's also really worth mentioning this is firing at them at a 90 degree angle. Anyone who knows how projectile penetration works can tell you if the person you shot at was angled slightly before impact, it's much more likely to deflect off the armour. Combat isn't usually under ideal conditions, at close range, with no angling.
I LOVE these crossbow shooting videos
People often forget that whatever you can make weapons with, you can use that to make armor. When the weapon and the target are made of the same material, sharp instruments are vastly less effective. Shaping a piece of steel into the shape of a katana does not make it any any stronger.
Weapon against armor is actually very much like bare hand versus no armor. Thinking that a sword can cut through metal armor is like saying you can punch someone through the chest.
To be accurate different types of metal fare better as weapons and armor.
Hardened Steel is considered optimal for armor while tempering is generally preferable to swords/blades which usually requires a fair amount of flex unless it's meant to be a thrusting sword in which case it has to be very stiff.
Obsidiam armor...
Pffff, it might help against some stupid arrows, BUT DO YOU KNOW THAT A WELL SHARPENED KOJIMA CAN CUT A KNIGHT SITTING IN A TANK IN HALF!?!11
NANI!?!?!
Zeratul Rus man Kojima is a weapon too!? That man can do everything!
Lmao a knight sitting in a tank
Ironically, the movie 300 probably has the most realistic depiction of missile performance against metal protection in popular culture.
A volley of that would hurt really bad even with the finest plate armor
Fix those holes with flex seal and BAM good as new
Pikachooo make the backing and cord out of flex tape. Behold; The Absolute Unit, a set of metal lamellar so durable it’s said it can even break katanas on its surface
Never bring a crossbow to a gunfight.
1:46 I laughed too hard at this. It's the simple things that do it. Lol
Thank you again so much for these wonderfully detailed videos. They go a VERY long way in helping me to properly adjust the weapon's damage vs. armor type charts in my game... :)
And yet Night King was able to completely penetrate steel plate armor of Theon with a wooden shaft
Not really. The lighting choices were so poor it only looked like that happened.
Thanks for the Video, interesting to see my favorite armor from mount and blade under crossbow fire
5:00 "quite a T H I C C point here"
Interesting. The Breastplate fared better than I ever thought it would. I wouldn't wear something of that gauge for reenactment.
Why not? And BTW, what period are you reenacting?
I reenact from the Migration Era to U.S. Vietnam. We do full contact fighting with blunts so 14 ga plate and even 12 ga Helms are used. When we do the Viking Age we add several layers of thick wool under our mail shirts much like what has been found in a couple digs. You could get away with 16 ga if you're not going full force but we don't pull any blows.
I'm reenacting an early XV century knight and I often participate in bohurts and duels. I actually know people who use 18 gauge plates. I actually use 18 gauge greaves. In XV century reenactment we have the privilege of using tempered plates for some parts of armour (it wasn't too widespread so one must be careful to not overuse this).
I assume that when you speak about the thickness you mostly refer to helmets which are usually thicker than any other part of the armour.
Yes the Helm is thicker. I'm surprised you're using 18 ga but then again it's tempered and that makes all the difference. Our plate isn't tempered so we needs to thicker. Are you in the U.S. ? I ask because I know tempered plate is used more in Europe but it's catching on here (U.S.)
Actually, my greaves aren't tempered. But you rarely get hit in that area.
Nope. I live in Europe
This is the exact breast and back plate design I built for S.C.A. combat in the early 80's. It never dented and served me well during the several years that I did heavy weapons combat.
1:06 This armour looks like a goofy version of a knight, like a mascot you would see at a knight themed birthday party, he looks so happy to see you
$150 for that armor and you shot it with a crossbow houch my god that's lookes good
When your crossbow sounds almost like a gun you know it's the real deal.
After seeing how the armor performed, I would literally be okay with wearing it to see how it felt and share my experience
Until he misses the armor 😅
This is why full armored knights are such feared people back in the old days. Imagine peasants without any armor going against their lord and try to rebel. One knight can pretty much take down dozens of them with barely any injuries. As long he has the stamina to keep fighting of course.
in regards to the deformation, in jousting in mild steel armour i have had more serious dents on several occasions and they did not make for much issues at all
dents like that to helmets sometimes mean the vision slit is moved and that can interfere with vision, but that is about it.
but it is really interesting to see that armour that is 'thinner than most originals' and 'soften than most originals' effectively stops this.
(for the comparison, the Avant armour is 4 mm hardened steel even in the fauld lames in the middle of the front)
Gregor "the mountain" clegane w full plate armor. with 2 handed broad sword ...GG
Just tire him out, his stamina will be shit with that armor and huge physique of his
When he said scrotum leather i lost it 💀😂
7:23 Not fair. You clearly used a supersonic bolt on that one.
0:53 "this is just to provide entertainment and a general idea"
Well that 1.7 million views says that was entertainment. Good work.
"What are those, scrotum leather?"
*Me spraying coffee across the table like a fire extinguisher*
“That’s a lot of damage.”
"The wearer would be perfectly fine"
UH buddy i'm pretty sure that's a broken rib. At least some severe contusions.
That's exactly my thoughts. The armor isn't spreading out the impact that dramatically. You're definitely better off with the armor, but you're still going to be severely injured unless it's a glancing blow.
@@thomastmc Also unmentioned was the fact that if you're riding full tilt on a horse you're gonna knocked off. So now you've got a broken rib, got tramped by other dudes riding giant horses weighed down by metal armor. All that then you've got to fight guys who have just been taken pot shots at you.
Part of what made the crossbow and the longbow so effective wasn't the fact they would kill armored men-at-arms outright, but that it would weaken and severely degrade their fighting effectiveness. Further, the crossbow was cheap as hell to make and easy to train illiterate, emaciated peasants to use. That armor took hundreds of hours to make and required healthy, strong and well-trained men to use effectively. Handing 20x as many peasants crossbows was overall more effective.
But the knight has a padding underneath, that must at least count to something?
@@bugrilyus I think it would help but not all that much, though I'm not the versed with medieval armor.
@IC3D ZOMBIE both padded armor and plate are extremely good at dispersing energy, the knight would have barely felt a thump
You better not be a manhunter.
Away with you, vile beggar!
That's a nice head you have on your shoulders!
I VILL DRINK FRUM YAR SKALL!
Less talking more raiding!
My men would like a word with you about your purse-onal belongings..
There is a very good reason why plate armor was worn for centuries. This test is done with costume armor, thin mild steel, at close range, and without any give to the breastplate which would move backward from the energy of the arrow. Forged armor proves that the same arrows bounce off, shatter, and do some cosmetic damage to the breastplate at most.
Watching these helps me understand crossbows, and i'm trying to draw them for a comic i want to make. It's quite helpful, thanks for posting these videos.
These things be taking forever to reload in Stronghold smh
Try a hand grenade next.
or a foot grenade.
And get your channel taken down like TheganThran lol
I would have liked to see a modern crossbow used too.
Dominic Waters Problem with the modern crossbow is that it use light weak arrows instead of heavy bolts, but it would be interesting to see what will happen.
If you’re wondering...armor piercing bolts instead of a broad head would indeed go through most plates like butter given the right draw weight.
Regardless of penetration you're still gonna be sore from the the crossbow shots, not enough to truly stop you, but it could slow you a bit. On the other hand the war hammer is going to do some noticeable damage to you under the armor. As far as i'm aware most deaths in armor came from being pulled to the ground and having people stab at unarmored/lightly armored section. This is why halberds have hooks on them, you would be lined up and thrust, and the return you would try and hook someone's foot, leg, ankle or catch on their armor and get them on the ground at which point you and the guys on either side of you would stab down at them.
you are correct, also important to note that combat is more about breaking formations and causing routs then about actually slaying soldiers, that is done during the rout.