They sorta already did because it's basically the same gun that ukraine adopted to shoot down drones. They posted the video of it like a week ago I believe
@Lavabird827 yeah they are all based on the escort semi auto line, the polymer has different lines too it and slightly different features. Action and magazines are the same
I've had one of these for a couple years, so I've got some things to report; It's a surprisingly reliable shotgun as he mentioned, i bought it for cheap fun recoil and it certainly delivers on that promise. But I'd go as far to say it's reliable for home defense use if needed. Overinsertion is certainly an issue, but it can be helped be adjusting the mag release, tightening it to where the mag won't insert at all, and backing off until it fits perfectly and use threadlock to keep that adjustment. Helped with my tbp12 I drilled a hole in the recoil pad behind where the hex bolt locks the gun into the stock, that way I could take apart the whole gun provided I have that Allen wrench. Glue down the washer for that bolt, that way it doesn't fall into the stock and you end up having to remove the butt pad anyway. It's a fun shotgun to break out at the range to have friends shoot and I don't have any regrets buying it 😁
Easy solution to it not catching over-insertion tabs...cut duct tape in 1/2 the long way...wrap around the mag 3-4x times: top of tape being flush with top of the over-insert tabs...it catches now. No perm modifications or drilling into the polymer of the magwell.
Yup. Especially since it's not like these will become collectors' items in the future (kinda like how sporterizing surplus rifles wasn't a big deal, until it was, and I don't see that happening with similarly originally priced shotguns.)
@@LordZedz How could one NOT buy for that? It'd be throwing money away not to pull the trigger on that (pun intended)- the more we buy, the more we save! (/Irony... But, $175? At that price, buying one goes from 'Why?' to 'Why not?')
Karl! I was hoping you'd circle around to one of these bullpup/non-bullpup gas operated semi-auto shotguns! I've been using a VR-80 in 3 Gun for about 2 years now and was hoping to see someone else waxing lyrical about the affordable price to entry! A couple of notes about things you can do to improve QoL overall: - File your gas ports. Once you take the gas system down to clean, you can get at the gas ports. A tiny little metal file to smooth the burrs out has anecdotally helped me run lighter loads more consistently - Remove the bolt-hold-open all together. Often times, heavier loads (think 1350s) will rock the receiver enough to prematurely engage the bolt-hold-open. Removing it solves that and the over insertion worries. - Polish / clean semi-regularly your magazines. They are very liable to get fouled up and bind, particularly when you run +2 base-plates from Taylor Freelance (or other vendor of your choice). Enjoy that thing as much as I have my VR-80! I'll likely be getting a bullpup form of the gun like this soon, since loading the 19's is a lot easier with closer leverage (I also recommend 19 round sticks, surprisingly reliable!)
Thank you for the tips! I want one of these, but I intend to use extended extra-full and rifled choke tubes, and possibly a barrel extension to bring it to 30" total for geese.
The Turks love this sort of stuff because their laws are much more lax with shotguns. Therefore, they made shotgun "clones" of (what we would consider) sporting rifles and military pattern rifles. This also has the knock-on effect of being popular in Europe because shotguns are easier to acquire and own compared to rifles, especially semi-automatic rifles. It seems reliable enough as a shotgun and works reliably for a gas gun since it can cycle a range of shells. But it looks to be a fun gun to have, and for $300 it can be just a range toy since it seems that the real world application of a shotgun like this is limited.
Having been to a lot of those factories, it's kinda scary how many of the smaller companies design and make them "by the ear" so to speak, with copious amounts of dremeling. Engineers? Woz dat?
i think given what we’re seeing in russia/ukraine with shotguns re-emerging as a means to shoot down fpv drones something compact and magazine fed like this could be a winner for that niche
Yeah, you can’t use it for hunting. I tried to shoot a duck with mine and it refused to fire for some reason until I aimed it at a piece of paper. Must be advanced Turkish Fudd technology or something.
100% a fun project to modify to my tastes, like making the mag release be more AK and removing the hold open. Shoutout to the cameraman getting absolutely dinged with the empty hull at 6:16
I’ve had an overall great experience with my tokarev titan 12 gauge so far. For 150 beans I couldn’t pass it up and it has ran a couple hundred rounds of birdshot and slugs without any issues. Great video as always
I just bought one from Palmetto State Armory for $199 (Black Friday). Add shipping and transfer fee and I'm around $250 into the same exact shotgun as in this video. As indicated, don't slam the magazine in too far, and it shoots perfectly. No regerts! ;-)
Honestly the testament to it working fine (especially with cheap birdshot) is all the advertising this thing needs. In the era of gucci guns, a $300 semiauto is great. Also, RIO buckshot being so weak is again more of a statement against them than the gun. If bulk pack birdshot cycles but buckshot having trouble, the buckshot is the problem here.
I have that exact one and never had issues ran both 3in and 2 3/4 no prob and i own nice pieces and this for what cost it does trick, we all want that tti 12 gaugue but 99% us only need sum like this
i want whatever youre smoking lmfao where did you even get this idea from lmaoooooo (not bashing you btw lmao this is just a wild comment for a random shotgun review)
I recently got a similar gun sold by Citadel (LSI?) called the PupScout. It works the same, but has a kludged ambi magazine release. Charging handle is lower, which I'm not a fan of. Gun runs great though. Got it just for kicks, but am genuinely satisfied and I dig the Cyberpunk aesthetics. Place I bought it at also told me they have a ton of problems with the AR style shotgun they sell from the same company, but for some weird reason no complaints at all with the bullpup.
Ive got a old recoil operated Remington mohawk 48 that was my dads. I had a gunsmith cut it down to 18.5 inches and fit a 870 magazine extension on it. Its one of the few semi auto shotguns i have that will cycle with litterally anything i put in it. Little more recoil than gas operated guns but alot of those old recoil operated designs are pretty reliable.
I bought a similar bullpup shotgun two years ago and had the same problem with bolt release. I made a left hand bolt release. If you'd like photos, I'd be glad to share.
*It's a great tactical weapon even running glued bird shot. For those of you not familiar with that term I buy the cheapest TRAP-SHOT at the 'Wally-World' for $27 bucks a case of 100 and drill a small 1/4" hole at the top then use a Turkey basting syringe and inject about 15ML of PVC pipe cement into the lead shot and after 7 days it dries into a lead slug for lethal long range effect. Here in AK I have used this home=brew slug/glue ammo to bag a few black bears at over 100 yards easy. Some guys like using hot wax but that means cutting the tops off with a razor-blade jig-cutter and roll crimping them when done, too much work.*
I got my first bullpup about a year ago. Loved it so much i got a second one. Different brand but man i love them. Got them both setup with slings, reddots, and better flip up sights.
I have the black aces FD12 which is very similar to this but with (imo) improved controls. I use it casually and probably have a few hundred rounds through it so far. Ive found that as long as you stick with the 5rd mags and half decent ammo, the thing works totally fine. I think it would be my go-to in home defense
@@TheObso1337Originally it might have been, but Fallout 2 added several more shotguns, including the CAWS (which didn't really look like the real HK gun any more than the Combat Shotgun did) and the Pancor Jackhammer (yet again, looking more 'inspired by' its namesake). But this gun is the most aesthetically similar actual firearm to the Winchester City-Killer from the first two Fallout games.
@@TheObso1337 Not all, you had the CAWS, the Jackhammer, and a third one called Winchester "City-Killer" Combat Shotgun in Fallout 1 & 2 that has a sprite that looks like the Tokarev, but with a heat shield instead of the railed top.
The issues are reasonably easily fixed. Setting asides if you really want a bullpup shotgun. The overinsertion you can fix by just having a nub welded on the mags to properly stop it or most likely someones allready making a rubber magsleve that solves it. The magrelease you could have some extension made for so your grip hand can release it (probably youd want boltrelease in that same extension so right hand never leaves the grip) Now its ugly and not overly practical, but for 300$ and it being a shotgun, i could definately see the fun in owning one
Another owner described tightening the magazine release until it prevents insertion, then back it off until the magazine locks in cleanly, test, then lock the tension screw with Lock Tite.
This is awesome! Gosh I wish I had some discretionary spending available... gotta pay off those loans first haha but wow this would be a heck of a 'oh yeah I just have a shotgun for home defense I got for $300'
If you insert the mag with your right hand, just slide your fingers up and over the top of the stock and ‘squeeze’ the bolt release. Also, set your mags up as double mags. JBWeld two mags with a dowel between them, then a couple of wraps of duct-tape. The dowel will also act as an over-insertion preventing block.
I've shot these..both regular config and bullpup'd...Easy solution to it not catching over-insertion tabs...cut duct tape in 1/2 the long way...wrap around the mag 3-4x times: top of tape being flush with top of the over-insert tabs...it catches now. No perm modifications or drilling into the polymer of the magwell.
Dude thanks so much for doing a review of this. I trust your opinion and I've been on the fence about getting this one since I first randomly discovered it about a year ago. Turkey is the king of affordable shotguns apparently.
One good call to mine the German Sig pistols where you don't use the slide catch to release the slide in lock but instead you simply pull the slide and release it by hand, this shotgun to me appears to operate on the same principle where they don't want you to use the boat release but instead use the charging handle manually
The Black Aces FD12 is really similar, and is priced about the same. After breaking it in with a few mags, it now runs everything 100%, including low-powered Target rounds. I have also never experienced the mag overtravel issue with mine that he mentions with this, and the mag release seems to be better thought out. The only reliability problems I've had with it happened when trying to run it with a ProMag drum mag
NSWC Crane was working on a similar design for the SEALs back in the eighties, a 12 gauge bull pup shotgun. The rounds were longer and brass. Never got out of 6.3...
This shotgun, and several others of the same design, are in fact excellent. Just my experience. Many "review" videos covering them are a number of years behind. Why? Well, lots of guys just laugh such things off for a while...a few years...and then get surprised. Of course, opinions by reviewers are complicated by a number of factors. The more prominent the reviewer, the more complicated the contributing factors might be. TH-cam hits. Sponsorships. Relationships. It can be complicated. One could look at Jim Reeves for example. Look how long the KSG was around and laughed about until S&W caught up. Look how long the KelTec P11 was around before Sig came up with the P365. People criticized, laughed, joked. Now we have proven pistols, around for years, extremely well proven, and US reviewers act like they are new and test them. Look at the Taurus TS9. Are US reviewers serious or ignorant? Hard to say. Now there is a "new" bullpup shotgun? You have to reach around for the mag release? Slight change in manual of arms? Slight? Train with it. That's all. You want an ambi safety? It takes AR parts. Better trigger? It takes AR parts. Taking it down way beyond this video is incredibly simple. Crap ammo did no work well in a semi-auto shotgun? LOL! No kidding. Many often comment on whether they will "bet their life on" a firearm. Most of that is bravado and BS. Stand in front of it with one in the chamber and let someone pull the trigger. Make your bet based on that, not some BS tactical course competition fantasy gamer scenario crap. Just do that. Let me know how it turns out. You don't want to? OK then. Try it with the often maligned .22LR. Just stand in front of it when the trigger is pulled. We will wait for that review. Ever wonder why the amazing Glock catastrophic failures are so hard to find on the web? They don't exist? Really? LOL! The web is not the real world.
I have sold and transferred hundreds of these little Turkish shotguns. Haven’t seen problems out of any now on the other hand the Turkish pump shotguns have lots of issues getting the shells to feed out of the magazine tubes very ammo sensitive.
ive had mine for 6 months. Ive fired bout 300 rounds. it def has a break in period, and you need to lube it first time. So far it i the bets bang for your buck ive ever come across. considering buying 2 more, just in case they ever stop manufacturing these.
it seems like a solid pick for competitive shooting or even home defense. I’m curious how it performs in terms of reliability and recoil management, but it looks like it could hold its own in the right hands.
I saw nutnfacy’s review of the one in “graffitti/urban camo” which was going for $200 on psa’s website, same model and everything. I’m actually really interested in getting one for the price point probably with a funny paint job. Great to see another review of this in a couple days.
Had the BP-12 … the shock from recoil eventually loosened the “castle nut” and the firing pin would no longer strike properly. Steel on aluminum doesn’t like to stay locked.
When I saw the thumbnail I was like Oh cool, too bad I can't afford it... Then I read the title. I dont have a semi-12g yet, and I have 500$ put away for my next gun... hmm
i assume the mag release is on the right of the gun is to stop the problem the sa80 had (mag release on being the left of the weapon) of it being knocked against the shooters body and the mag dropping but over all looks a fun gun for not a lot of money
I've seen these things everywhere, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious. The price just sounded too good to be true, but you've convinced me that I might get one. And for something that cheap, I'll probably get something crazy like green camo or something. They have a whole bunch of different paint jobs. Why not?
I have been putting off buying one, but this video and the comments on how to correct issues have decided it. I want this satin nickel finish for low maintenance; I have seen genuine hundred-plus year old nickel-finish Colts that were carried and shot for much of that existence, and still very much in usable condition!
A little carefull work on those over insertion tabs should be pretty easy. The mag catch looked a lot like an AR style. Could a ambi ar15 mag catch be adapted to fit? Too bad they didnt just give it a paddle release.
Really wish that the ejection pattern would make it even slightly feasible for those of us who are wrong-handed... Even if it ejected a little bit more forward that would be enough. Curse my natural backwardness!
That's why I (naturally ambidextrous) trained people to use both hands, both shoulders. The hardest part for most people is that using the "wrong" eye for sighting really bothers them, but it's do-able. Personally, I find it important to know the "Kentucky windage" correction for offhand firing, because if lives are at risk, it's very important to not shoot the wrong person! (Accuracy isn't hitting what you mean to, accuracy is not hitting what you don't want to.) I find it takes many hours and hundreds of shots to become marginally able, and thousands to become competent at the mental head switch, so I recommend using a BB or pellet rifle for the training. After that, transitioning to normal firearms comes relatively easily. Going straight at it with firearms results in severe ingrained flinching!
What about turning it sideways so that the ejection port is facing the ground? Maybe if you write to the company, they can turn out a few flipped variations?
@@davidgoodnow269 oh sure, if this was going to be my primary defensive arm then I would try to train to be ambidextrous with it, yes. As a fun shooter, for only $300, it doesn't quite rise to that level for me I think
It looks like it might just use an AR-15 mag release, would it be possible to put an ambi release in it? Super glue or epoxy plus a little nub of anything durable could solve the over insertion of mags.
Sadly, true, but if you read some of the comments, there is a very easy fix by adjusting the magazine release tension screw, then locking that down with Lock Tite once you've tested it!
Save up 200$ get a Maverick 88 and the Extra 100$ left over get a Side Saddle with Pic rail and Ammo. I almost wasted 400 on the Black Ace Bullpup 12g but sure glad I didn’t and did my homework first Cause that Blackace Bullpup has had a lot ALOT of issues
This sort of guns trikes me as being sorta the Hi Point of shotguns. Maybe not as bad as people expect, but you can do a little better for your money if you're willing to take a (minor) risk on a used Mossberg 500 which can sometimes be had for $200 on Gunbroker. Seems like you can do a lot worse. If I didn't live in Illinois I'd be tempted to grab one for a range toy and as a demonstrator of the idea that the plurality of firearms on the market in America attempt to emulate the controls of an AR15.
These kinds of cheap, somewhat-unique guns are what I missed about earlier gun culture. Nowadays everybody wants whatever's marginally more perfect or has a trigger .0001 lbs lighter for absolutely no reason. Your average shooter won't be able to tell the difference and 98% of the time isn't running multimillion dollar competitions or fighting on the front lines. Fun is king.
James Reeves is pissed that he has to do a burndown on this thing now.
They sorta already did because it's basically the same gun that ukraine adopted to shoot down drones. They posted the video of it like a week ago I believe
@@GUARDIAN.13 Not really. the shotgun used in ukraine was the Hatsan BTS-12. And no, that was at least a month ago at this point
@Lavabird827 yeah they are all based on the escort semi auto line, the polymer has different lines too it and slightly different features. Action and magazines are the same
So, how do we get him to do it? :)
3” Magnum loads
I've had one of these for a couple years, so I've got some things to report;
It's a surprisingly reliable shotgun as he mentioned, i bought it for cheap fun recoil and it certainly delivers on that promise. But I'd go as far to say it's reliable for home defense use if needed.
Overinsertion is certainly an issue, but it can be helped be adjusting the mag release, tightening it to where the mag won't insert at all, and backing off until it fits perfectly and use threadlock to keep that adjustment. Helped with my tbp12
I drilled a hole in the recoil pad behind where the hex bolt locks the gun into the stock, that way I could take apart the whole gun provided I have that Allen wrench. Glue down the washer for that bolt, that way it doesn't fall into the stock and you end up having to remove the butt pad anyway.
It's a fun shotgun to break out at the range to have friends shoot and I don't have any regrets buying it 😁
Thanks for the tips! I have been putting off buying one, and this video and comments sealed it!
Easy solution to it not catching over-insertion tabs...cut duct tape in 1/2 the long way...wrap around the mag 3-4x times: top of tape being flush with top of the over-insert tabs...it catches now. No perm modifications or drilling into the polymer of the magwell.
@@djdrack4681I mean, the gun is cheap enough and adjusting bolt release isn't permanent
Helpful review. Most of us can't afford the mid to higher level guns so it is nice to see videos like this.
this is just about the coolest channel in the world. thanks for everything you do as a non-chud gun guy of the people. blessed
Worth 300 just for that aesthetic
Yes...looks sick AF...I love mine
Id jb weld a rod or something on the mags to stop the over insertion if you dont care how the mags look. For 300 bucks it works and isnt too ugly.
Like it cuz .... It's only broke until you fix it yourself ... RESPECT bruv!!!!!
Yeah!!
I just checked and you can find these for $175 + shipping and tax. I might buy one for that price.
Yup. Especially since it's not like these will become collectors' items in the future (kinda like how sporterizing surplus rifles wasn't a big deal, until it was, and I don't see that happening with similarly originally priced shotguns.)
@@LordZedz
How could one NOT buy for that? It'd be throwing money away not to pull the trigger on that (pun intended)- the more we buy, the more we save! (/Irony... But, $175? At that price, buying one goes from 'Why?' to 'Why not?')
Karl! I was hoping you'd circle around to one of these bullpup/non-bullpup gas operated semi-auto shotguns! I've been using a VR-80 in 3 Gun for about 2 years now and was hoping to see someone else waxing lyrical about the affordable price to entry!
A couple of notes about things you can do to improve QoL overall:
- File your gas ports. Once you take the gas system down to clean, you can get at the gas ports. A tiny little metal file to smooth the burrs out has anecdotally helped me run lighter loads more consistently
- Remove the bolt-hold-open all together. Often times, heavier loads (think 1350s) will rock the receiver enough to prematurely engage the bolt-hold-open. Removing it solves that and the over insertion worries.
- Polish / clean semi-regularly your magazines. They are very liable to get fouled up and bind, particularly when you run +2 base-plates from Taylor Freelance (or other vendor of your choice).
Enjoy that thing as much as I have my VR-80! I'll likely be getting a bullpup form of the gun like this soon, since loading the 19's is a lot easier with closer leverage (I also recommend 19 round sticks, surprisingly reliable!)
Ive always wondered how many guns are 2 man hours from being pretty reliable
Seems like probably both this and the vr80
Thank you for the tips! I want one of these, but I intend to use extended extra-full and rifled choke tubes, and possibly a barrel extension to bring it to 30" total for geese.
Thanks for doing this Karl! Us Poors appreciate it when we get reviews of things we actually would buy and use.
For real
The Turks love this sort of stuff because their laws are much more lax with shotguns. Therefore, they made shotgun "clones" of (what we would consider) sporting rifles and military pattern rifles. This also has the knock-on effect of being popular in Europe because shotguns are easier to acquire and own compared to rifles, especially semi-automatic rifles.
It seems reliable enough as a shotgun and works reliably for a gas gun since it can cycle a range of shells. But it looks to be a fun gun to have, and for $300 it can be just a range toy since it seems that the real world application of a shotgun like this is limited.
Having been to a lot of those factories, it's kinda scary how many of the smaller companies design and make them "by the ear" so to speak, with copious amounts of dremeling. Engineers? Woz dat?
Mine is reliable enough that I have replaced my 870 clone with this for home defense.
They also make a huge number of .410 shotguns.
I wonder if they make a 3-round version (or a rifled one), as I wouldn't burn an autorisation for that.
i think given what we’re seeing in russia/ukraine with shotguns re-emerging as a means to shoot down fpv drones something compact and magazine fed like this could be a winner for that niche
Yeah, you can’t use it for hunting. I tried to shoot a duck with mine and it refused to fire for some reason until I aimed it at a piece of paper. Must be advanced Turkish Fudd technology or something.
100% a fun project to modify to my tastes, like making the mag release be more AK and removing the hold open.
Shoutout to the cameraman getting absolutely dinged with the empty hull at 6:16
I have basically the same shotgun with slightly different furniture, it however came with an ambidextrous mag release, and safety
I thought "Hey cool its ambidextrous!" Then I noticed the ejection port right about cheek level. Not so much!
I’ve had an overall great experience with my tokarev titan 12 gauge so far. For 150 beans I couldn’t pass it up and it has ran a couple hundred rounds of birdshot and slugs without any issues. Great video as always
‘Ain’t but a cuppa beans mane I had to’ 😂
I just bought one from Palmetto State Armory for $199 (Black Friday). Add shipping and transfer fee and I'm around $250 into the same exact shotgun as in this video. As indicated, don't slam the magazine in too far, and it shoots perfectly. No regerts! ;-)
Honestly the testament to it working fine (especially with cheap birdshot) is all the advertising this thing needs. In the era of gucci guns, a $300 semiauto is great. Also, RIO buckshot being so weak is again more of a statement against them than the gun. If bulk pack birdshot cycles but buckshot having trouble, the buckshot is the problem here.
seriously, imagine trying to hunt some poor deer with something so weak.
@@samohteel4393 lmao borderline animal abuse
And this gun is under $300. I think I saw them for a little over $200.
I have that exact one and never had issues ran both 3in and 2 3/4 no prob and i own nice pieces and this for what cost it does trick, we all want that tti 12 gaugue but 99% us only need sum like this
Of course i got the mdp9 under pillow and cz in case the thing don't go bang lol😂😂
Affordable, Reliable. A well rounded tool accessible to the people, Спасибо.
Not accessible to the people of the UK unless they make a version with another 6" of barrel.
Iam more happy with Saiga:)
@@joe125ful "affordable"
@@witmoreluke Well iam not lazy pay for quality but i understand some pls not have that much money.
“Reliable”. Bro it’s Turkish shotgun. This two words don’t mix.
taofledermaus taking notes and trying to invent a shotgun shell containing shotguns
i want whatever youre smoking lmfao where did you even get this idea from lmaoooooo (not bashing you btw lmao this is just a wild comment for a random shotgun review)
@@Sora8112 Karl put the words in my mouth. Derangement did the rest
@@gexay i respect that
"shotgun mother ship"
I recently got a similar gun sold by Citadel (LSI?) called the PupScout. It works the same, but has a kludged ambi magazine release. Charging handle is lower, which I'm not a fan of. Gun runs great though. Got it just for kicks, but am genuinely satisfied and I dig the Cyberpunk aesthetics.
Place I bought it at also told me they have a ton of problems with the AR style shotgun they sell from the same company, but for some weird reason no complaints at all with the bullpup.
brilliant review! my intrest and faith in shotguns has now been restored. definitely need one now!
That's probably the first mag fed shotgun to fire an entire magazine without jamming I've ever seen 😂
Then you not see much...
The Genesis-12 is an Extremely Reliable Magazine fed shotgun.
I haven't seen a bad review on Panzer Arms AR pattern shotguns
😂
@@Snapper314with a suppressor 😂
Ive got a old recoil operated Remington mohawk 48 that was my dads. I had a gunsmith cut it down to 18.5 inches and fit a 870 magazine extension on it. Its one of the few semi auto shotguns i have that will cycle with litterally anything i put in it. Little more recoil than gas operated guns but alot of those old recoil operated designs are pretty reliable.
I bought a similar bullpup shotgun two years ago and had the same problem with bolt release. I made a left hand bolt release. If you'd like photos, I'd be glad to share.
*It's a great tactical weapon even running glued bird shot. For those of you not familiar with that term I buy the cheapest TRAP-SHOT at the 'Wally-World' for $27 bucks a case of 100 and drill a small 1/4" hole at the top then use a Turkey basting syringe and inject about 15ML of PVC pipe cement into the lead shot and after 7 days it dries into a lead slug for lethal long range effect. Here in AK I have used this home=brew slug/glue ammo to bag a few black bears at over 100 yards easy. Some guys like using hot wax but that means cutting the tops off with a razor-blade jig-cutter and roll crimping them when done, too much work.*
Sounds like a great home defense gun for $300.
I've got one ! and zero complaints... great little shotgun.
I got my first bullpup about a year ago. Loved it so much i got a second one. Different brand but man i love them. Got them both setup with slings, reddots, and better flip up sights.
What brand are yours?
I have the Dickinson ranger. Very reliable. Then I have the Century arms Centurion. Haven't broke this one in yet.
@bigbadjohnpesek9894 thanks for the reply. I hadn't considered either of those but will take a look.
semi-auto magazine fed shotguns are one of the hardest Firearms to get right so the fact that this thing can run birdshot reliably tickle me impressed
Great Review!! You effortlessly reviewed everything and then covered the issues we’d have. This was a great review!
I was having issues with critical jams after hitting the bolt release - your advice on the magazine seems to be the solution - thank you.
I have the black aces FD12 which is very similar to this but with (imo) improved controls. I use it casually and probably have a few hundred rounds through it so far. Ive found that as long as you stick with the 5rd mags and half decent ammo, the thing works totally fine. I think it would be my go-to in home defense
That's almost identical to the combat shotgun from Fallout 1 and 2. Wild.
That was based off the H&K CAWS.
@@TheObso1337 I know, but this one looks even more like it than the CAWS.
Now i have to have it
@@TheObso1337Originally it might have been, but Fallout 2 added several more shotguns, including the CAWS (which didn't really look like the real HK gun any more than the Combat Shotgun did) and the Pancor Jackhammer (yet again, looking more 'inspired by' its namesake).
But this gun is the most aesthetically similar actual firearm to the Winchester City-Killer from the first two Fallout games.
@@TheObso1337 Not all, you had the CAWS, the Jackhammer, and a third one called Winchester "City-Killer" Combat Shotgun in Fallout 1 & 2 that has a sprite that looks like the Tokarev, but with a heat shield instead of the railed top.
You made me buy one. PSA had them for $199.99 last Friday.
Got one at a gunshow last week. Made sure to get one with an ambidextrous mag release.
The issues are reasonably easily fixed. Setting asides if you really want a bullpup shotgun. The overinsertion you can fix by just having a nub welded on the mags to properly stop it or most likely someones allready making a rubber magsleve that solves it. The magrelease you could have some extension made for so your grip hand can release it (probably youd want boltrelease in that same extension so right hand never leaves the grip)
Now its ugly and not overly practical, but for 300$ and it being a shotgun, i could definately see the fun in owning one
Another owner described tightening the magazine release until it prevents insertion, then back it off until the magazine locks in cleanly, test, then lock the tension screw with Lock Tite.
I have the g force firearms version and it has had 0 issues as long as you use high brass shells.
This is awesome! Gosh I wish I had some discretionary spending available... gotta pay off those loans first haha but wow this would be a heck of a 'oh yeah I just have a shotgun for home defense I got for $300'
If you insert the mag with your right hand, just slide your fingers up and over the top of the stock and ‘squeeze’ the bolt release.
Also, set your mags up as double mags. JBWeld two mags with a dowel between them, then a couple of wraps of duct-tape. The dowel will also act as an over-insertion preventing block.
This was my second gun ever and I do enjoy it, it’s simple, does its job, and kinda cool. Goes well with my vhs-2 and xdm 10mm.
I've shot these..both regular config and bullpup'd...Easy solution to it not catching over-insertion tabs...cut duct tape in 1/2 the long way...wrap around the mag 3-4x times: top of tape being flush with top of the over-insert tabs...it catches now. No perm modifications or drilling into the polymer of the magwell.
Dude thanks so much for doing a review of this. I trust your opinion and I've been on the fence about getting this one since I first randomly discovered it about a year ago. Turkey is the king of affordable shotguns apparently.
One good call to mine the German Sig pistols where you don't use the slide catch to release the slide in lock but instead you simply pull the slide and release it by hand, this shotgun to me appears to operate on the same principle where they don't want you to use the boat release but instead use the charging handle manually
The Black Aces FD12 is really similar, and is priced about the same. After breaking it in with a few mags, it now runs everything 100%, including low-powered Target rounds. I have also never experienced the mag overtravel issue with mine that he mentions with this, and the mag release seems to be better thought out. The only reliability problems I've had with it happened when trying to run it with a ProMag drum mag
Great "VIDEO GAME" vibes from that shotgun!
Love this channel. Learning something new and cool with every video.
Works, looks good, easy breakydown, generic mags, generic controlls... CHEAP! Love it.
NSWC Crane was working on a similar design for the SEALs back in the eighties, a 12 gauge bull pup shotgun. The rounds were longer and brass. Never got out of 6.3...
A little paint or ceracoat would really help in the looks dept. I looked at those ads, thanks for being the one to buy and test one. Mud test next?
Made in my hometown, yay. I'm right next to their production.
Nice order one:)
Can you take them a close-up photograph of an L85A2 magazine release catch?
I thought he said it was American, but then I thought he said it was Turkish. Which one is it?
5:00 the hi-point cleaning routine- just lock it back and spray it out.
Interesting shotgun, nice even review. Thanks
That is some high value, high Tacticool action.
This shotgun, and several others of the same design, are in fact excellent. Just my experience. Many "review" videos covering them are a number of years behind. Why? Well, lots of guys just laugh such things off for a while...a few years...and then get surprised. Of course, opinions by reviewers are complicated by a number of factors. The more prominent the reviewer, the more complicated the contributing factors might be. TH-cam hits. Sponsorships. Relationships. It can be complicated. One could look at Jim Reeves for example. Look how long the KSG was around and laughed about until S&W caught up. Look how long the KelTec P11 was around before Sig came up with the P365. People criticized, laughed, joked. Now we have proven pistols, around for years, extremely well proven, and US reviewers act like they are new and test them. Look at the Taurus TS9. Are US reviewers serious or ignorant? Hard to say. Now there is a "new" bullpup shotgun? You have to reach around for the mag release? Slight change in manual of arms? Slight? Train with it. That's all. You want an ambi safety? It takes AR parts. Better trigger? It takes AR parts. Taking it down way beyond this video is incredibly simple. Crap ammo did no work well in a semi-auto shotgun? LOL! No kidding. Many often comment on whether they will "bet their life on" a firearm. Most of that is bravado and BS. Stand in front of it with one in the chamber and let someone pull the trigger. Make your bet based on that, not some BS tactical course competition fantasy gamer scenario crap. Just do that. Let me know how it turns out. You don't want to? OK then. Try it with the often maligned .22LR. Just stand in front of it when the trigger is pulled. We will wait for that review. Ever wonder why the amazing Glock catastrophic failures are so hard to find on the web? They don't exist? Really? LOL! The web is not the real world.
I have sold and transferred hundreds of these little Turkish shotguns. Haven’t seen problems out of any now on the other hand the Turkish pump shotguns have lots of issues getting the shells to feed out of the magazine tubes very ammo sensitive.
ive had mine for 6 months. Ive fired bout 300 rounds. it def has a break in period, and you need to lube it first time. So far it i the bets bang for your buck ive ever come across. considering buying 2 more, just in case they ever stop manufacturing these.
I didn't have to "break in" this one.
i have the black aces tactical version of this gun, they put a mag release on both sides, and they use there own branded mags
I love my tokarev bullpup it's pretty rad
James Reeves enters the chat:
No! No! No! I refuse to do another burn-down video!
(3:09) As Hannibal said "Love the outfit".
Just ordered mine!
This looks just like a gun from the Cyberpunk 2077 game. $300? Hell yeah!
it seems like a solid pick for competitive shooting or even home defense. I’m curious how it performs in terms of reliability and recoil management, but it looks like it could hold its own in the right hands.
I saw nutnfacy’s review of the one in “graffitti/urban camo” which was going for $200 on psa’s website, same model and everything. I’m actually really interested in getting one for the price point probably with a funny paint job. Great to see another review of this in a couple days.
Ok, the “oh shit!” factor, pulling that out on an intruder alone, makes it worth the money. Can you imagine the face of some home intruder? Yeah, man!
Had the BP-12 … the shock from recoil eventually loosened the “castle nut” and the firing pin would no longer strike properly. Steel on aluminum doesn’t like to stay locked.
When I saw the thumbnail I was like
Oh cool, too bad I can't afford it...
Then I read the title. I dont have a semi-12g yet, and I have 500$ put away for my next gun... hmm
I’m surprised he didn’t grab the Sti Bulldog. It’s the same thing but comes apart like an AR with an upper and lower.
i assume the mag release is on the right of the gun is to stop the problem the sa80 had (mag release on being the left of the weapon) of it being knocked against the shooters body and the mag dropping but over all looks a fun gun for not a lot of money
Exactly what I thought, as soon as he talked about it.
This thing just makes me think of the saying : "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" 😂
Completely Demonitized...youtube sucks...thanks for sticking it out for us.
Patreon.com/inrangetv :)
These are going to make great bases for kitbashed scifi guns in movies
I've seen these things everywhere, and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious. The price just sounded too good to be true, but you've convinced me that I might get one.
And for something that cheap, I'll probably get something crazy like green camo or something. They have a whole bunch of different paint jobs. Why not?
I have been putting off buying one, but this video and the comments on how to correct issues have decided it. I want this satin nickel finish for low maintenance; I have seen genuine hundred-plus year old nickel-finish Colts that were carried and shot for much of that existence, and still very much in usable condition!
This see like a decent option for home defense. Its short and holds 10+1 with the weight at the back
the over insert stops not working is a pretty ridicilous issue to have on a magazine
A little carefull work on those over insertion tabs should be pretty easy. The mag catch looked a lot like an AR style. Could a ambi ar15 mag catch be adapted to fit? Too bad they didnt just give it a paddle release.
I wondered about an ambi mag release too. It might solve the problem.
The brushed nickel and black combo is nice. Bit of bling at the range, ha. For $300, a shotgun that actually works, well okay then.
I've been looking at the Tokarev's. I kinda hope they start making pistols.
We have a tar 12mp, now i need this one too
the complete lack of mud content was alarming
That's one way to throw nearly a pound of lead downrange. :)
I wonder if it passes better the James Reeves/TBFTV shotgun burndown BETTER than other Turkish Bennelish?
I almost got one but got their pump TX3 . :)
Really wish that the ejection pattern would make it even slightly feasible for those of us who are wrong-handed... Even if it ejected a little bit more forward that would be enough. Curse my natural backwardness!
That's why I (naturally ambidextrous) trained people to use both hands, both shoulders. The hardest part for most people is that using the "wrong" eye for sighting really bothers them, but it's do-able. Personally, I find it important to know the "Kentucky windage" correction for offhand firing, because if lives are at risk, it's very important to not shoot the wrong person! (Accuracy isn't hitting what you mean to, accuracy is not hitting what you don't want to.)
I find it takes many hours and hundreds of shots to become marginally able, and thousands to become competent at the mental head switch, so I recommend using a BB or pellet rifle for the training. After that, transitioning to normal firearms comes relatively easily. Going straight at it with firearms results in severe ingrained flinching!
What about turning it sideways so that the ejection port is facing the ground? Maybe if you write to the company, they can turn out a few flipped variations?
@@davidgoodnow269 oh sure, if this was going to be my primary defensive arm then I would try to train to be ambidextrous with it, yes.
As a fun shooter, for only $300, it doesn't quite rise to that level for me I think
@DeviantOllam Habit is habit. Once you learn, it's there.
PSA has these for $200 right now, but it looks like about $20 for shipping (for me) plus FFL fee, seems decent to at least try it out.
It looks like it might just use an AR-15 mag release, would it be possible to put an ambi release in it?
Super glue or epoxy plus a little nub of anything durable could solve the over insertion of mags.
That thing is a vibe
Its really cool with that cost.
Saw the title in a glimps, I was like "What? 300$ Tarkov 12ga bullpup shotgun??"
Fun to shoot, ergonomics suck but my cheapo is pretty reliable. 😅
As a "Karl", i approve. 😊
Good stuff dude!
Would love to see more footage on one of these. Maybe a test with a higher round count like 500 or 1000?
A few layers of duck tape around the mag would keep it from over inserting and look very Cyber.
I'd probably go with electrical tape. 😄
Sadly, true, but if you read some of the comments, there is a very easy fix by adjusting the magazine release tension screw, then locking that down with Lock Tite once you've tested it!
looks like the 120mm bullpup of a RGM-79 GM from 1978's Mobile Suit Gundam cartoon
Put a rubber band on the mags or tape to put extra material for the wobbly issue
Save up 200$ get a Maverick 88 and the Extra 100$ left over get a Side Saddle with Pic rail and Ammo. I almost wasted 400 on the Black Ace Bullpup 12g but sure glad I didn’t and did my homework first Cause that Blackace Bullpup has had a lot ALOT of issues
I've been looking into this shotgun! Please do a follow up of how it runs down the road!
Looks like something you'd find in Stalker
This sort of guns trikes me as being sorta the Hi Point of shotguns. Maybe not as bad as people expect, but you can do a little better for your money if you're willing to take a (minor) risk on a used Mossberg 500 which can sometimes be had for $200 on Gunbroker.
Seems like you can do a lot worse. If I didn't live in Illinois I'd be tempted to grab one for a range toy and as a demonstrator of the idea that the plurality of firearms on the market in America attempt to emulate the controls of an AR15.
looks straight out of the exclusion zone
These kinds of cheap, somewhat-unique guns are what I missed about earlier gun culture. Nowadays everybody wants whatever's marginally more perfect or has a trigger .0001 lbs lighter for absolutely no reason. Your average shooter won't be able to tell the difference and 98% of the time isn't running multimillion dollar competitions or fighting on the front lines. Fun is king.
I had a stroke reading that title
Damn thats a better design then my hatsun bts 12.